• Re: Another carpark hostage situation

    From Mark Goodge@usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk to uk.legal.moderated on Thu Dec 18 10:06:02 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.legal.moderated

    On Sun, 14 Dec 2025 20:24:18 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:

    Latest update (8pm Sunday).

    Car park [One] closed "for the foreseeable future"
    Car park Two prioritised for patients and visitors (so staff a bit
    disadvantaged).
    People urged to use nearby P&R, although it's not clear they have
    anything like the necessary spare capacity (either parking spaces
    or bus seats).
    Anyone with car held hostage "wait to hear from us".

    ps. I'm not saying that there's much else which could be done, but
    it's a heads-up what a significant single-point-of-failure this
    illustrates.

    Now being reported as caused by a fault in a diesel car.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c04vxd5nr31o

    Who'd have thought, eh. Maybe we should consider banning them.

    Mark

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Roland Perry@roland@perry.uk to uk.legal.moderated on Thu Dec 18 10:26:45 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.legal.moderated

    In message <39k7kkhh5l3if0bedpm02p3rs41fpimm5f@4ax.com>, at 10:06:02 on
    Thu, 18 Dec 2025, Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk>
    remarked:
    On Sun, 14 Dec 2025 20:24:18 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:

    Latest update (8pm Sunday).

    Car park [One] closed "for the foreseeable future"

    Car park Two prioritised for patients and visitors (so staff a bit
    disadvantaged).

    People urged to use nearby P&R, although it's not clear they have
    anything like the necessary spare capacity (either parking spaces
    or bus seats).

    Anyone with car held hostage "wait to hear from us".

    ps. I'm not saying that there's much else which could be done, but
    it's a heads-up what a significant single-point-of-failure this
    illustrates.

    Now being reported as caused by a fault in a diesel car.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c04vxd5nr31o

    Who'd have thought, eh. Maybe we should consider banning them.

    Staff at Addenbrookes were unofficially told that an EV was involved,
    but that might be one parked next to the faulty diesel, and once afire
    would experience greater thermal runaway than a diesel parked next door.

    The only thing that's certain is that reports of what happened, released
    at this stage, only tell a fraction of the story. For example, did the
    car park have sprinklers (possibly unlikely as the fire burnt out a
    total of 12 cars). Would those other eleven have a claim against NCP?
    --
    Roland Perry

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Martin Brown@'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk to uk.legal.moderated on Thu Dec 18 11:19:21 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.legal.moderated

    On 18/12/2025 10:26, Roland Perry wrote:
    In message <39k7kkhh5l3if0bedpm02p3rs41fpimm5f@4ax.com>, at 10:06:02 on
    Thu, 18 Dec 2025, Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> remarked:
    On Sun, 14 Dec 2025 20:24:18 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:

    Anyone with car held hostage "wait to hear from us".

    ps. I'm not saying that there's much else which could be done, but
    -a-a-a it's a heads-up what a significant single-point-of-failure this
    -a-a-a illustrates.

    Now being reported as caused by a fault in a diesel car.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c04vxd5nr31o

    Who'd have thought, eh. Maybe we should consider banning them.

    Staff at Addenbrookes were unofficially told that an EV was involved,
    but that might be one parked next to the faulty diesel, and once afire
    would experience greater thermal runaway than a diesel parked next door.

    An EV on fire can throw jets of very hot flames a considerable distance. Diesel on fire tends to run along the ground so either way the flames
    would spread to the sides or underneath of neighbouring cars.

    The only thing that's certain is that reports of what happened, released
    at this stage, only tell a fraction of the story. For example, did the
    car park have sprinklers (possibly unlikely as the fire burnt out a
    total of 12 cars). Would those other eleven have a claim against NCP?

    UK carparks don't usually have sprinklers installed unless they are
    located in a cellar of a high rise office block.

    ISTR In Germany some underground carpark operators have banned EVs from parking in them completely after serious fires and structural damage.eg.

    https://www-infranken-de.translate.goog/lk/kulmbach/tiefgarage-e-autos-muessen-draussen-bleiben-art-5164055?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-GB

    Main difference is EV fires will burn hot enough to seriously damage
    steel girders and is nearly impossible to put out whereas a diesel fire
    seldom burns hot enough to damage steelwork and responds well to normal
    water foam based fire fighting techniques.

    Are they any nearer to allowing the lower deck to be emptied of cars?
    --
    Martin Brown


    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Roland Perry@roland@perry.uk to uk.legal.moderated on Thu Dec 18 11:28:51 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.legal.moderated

    In message <10i0nvt$8e58$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:19:21 on Thu, 18 Dec
    2025, Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> remarked:

    Are they any nearer to allowing the lower deck to be emptied of cars?

    There were 460 cars apparently, which would be about five desks worth.

    The Hospital Trust is being very coy about the situation, merely saying
    that MCP will be contacting car owners about a 'staged recovery process'
    but no information about whether that's started, nor when predicted to
    finish.
    --
    Roland Perry

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Spike@aero.spike@mail.com to uk.legal.moderated on Thu Dec 18 11:58:31 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.legal.moderated

    Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote:
    On Sun, 14 Dec 2025 20:24:18 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:

    Latest update (8pm Sunday).

    Car park [One] closed "for the foreseeable future"
    Car park Two prioritised for patients and visitors (so staff a bit
    disadvantaged).
    People urged to use nearby P&R, although it's not clear they have
    anything like the necessary spare capacity (either parking spaces
    or bus seats).
    Anyone with car held hostage "wait to hear from us".

    ps. I'm not saying that there's much else which could be done, but
    it's a heads-up what a significant single-point-of-failure this
    illustrates.

    Now being reported as caused by a fault in a diesel car.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c04vxd5nr31o

    Who'd have thought, eh. Maybe we should consider banning them.

    The last reported multi-storey car park fire was also said to be a diesel vehicle, but a Range Rover group maintained that it was a hybrid. ItrCOs just that the seat of the jets of flame came from the location where the battery would be.

    We canrCOt ban EVs because thatrCOs against the current official mantra, but a representative of a car dealers association said on the radio this morning
    that the UK was the only country out of step with the rest of the world on
    the issue of EV sales. I forget the word he used to describe the official attitude, but it might have been a close relative of rCOhallucinatingrCO. BBC R4 this morning at about 0615.
    --
    Spike

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jon Ribbens@jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu to uk.legal.moderated on Thu Dec 18 14:44:35 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.legal.moderated

    On 2025-12-18, Spike <aero.spike@mail.com> wrote:
    Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote:
    Now being reported as caused by a fault in a diesel car.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c04vxd5nr31o

    Who'd have thought, eh. Maybe we should consider banning them.

    The last reported multi-storey car park fire was also said to be a diesel vehicle, but a Range Rover group maintained that it was a hybrid. ItrCOs just that the seat of the jets of flame came from the location where the battery would be.

    We canrCOt ban EVs because thatrCOs against the current official mantra, but a
    representative of a car dealers association said on the radio this morning that the UK was the only country out of step with the rest of the world on the issue of EV sales. I forget the word he used to describe the official attitude, but it might have been a close relative of rCOhallucinatingrCO. BBC R4 this morning at about 0615.

    What is "the issue of EV sales", and in what way are we "out of step"?

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Andy Burns@usenet@andyburns.uk to uk.legal.moderated on Thu Dec 18 15:04:34 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.legal.moderated

    Spike wrote:

    We canrCOt ban EVs because thatrCOs against the current official mantra, but a
    representative of a car dealers association said on the radio this morning that the UK was the only country out of step with the rest of the world on the issue of EV sales. I forget the word he used to describe the official attitude, but it might have been a close relative of rCOhallucinatingrCO. BBC R4 this morning at about 0615.

    06:24:40 "delusional"

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Spike@aero.spike@mail.com to uk.legal.moderated on Thu Dec 18 15:01:16 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.legal.moderated

    Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu> wrote:
    On 2025-12-18, Spike <aero.spike@mail.com> wrote:
    Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote:
    Now being reported as caused by a fault in a diesel car.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c04vxd5nr31o

    Who'd have thought, eh. Maybe we should consider banning them.

    The last reported multi-storey car park fire was also said to be a diesel
    vehicle, but a Range Rover group maintained that it was a hybrid. ItrCOs just
    that the seat of the jets of flame came from the location where the battery >> would be.

    We canrCOt ban EVs because thatrCOs against the current official mantra, but a
    representative of a car dealers association said on the radio this morning >> that the UK was the only country out of step with the rest of the world on >> the issue of EV sales. I forget the word he used to describe the official
    attitude, but it might have been a close relative of rCOhallucinatingrCO. BBC
    R4 this morning at about 0615.

    What is "the issue of EV sales", and in what way are we "out of step"?

    Something to do with government-imposed quotas, derided by the interviewee
    in the programme mentioned on the grounds that the government is dictating
    what people want and which is also out of line with many/most/all other governments. ItrCOs an interesting listen.
    --
    Spike

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Roland Perry@roland@perry.uk to uk.legal.moderated on Thu Dec 18 16:05:22 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.legal.moderated

    Update Thursday (five days after the fire):

    NCP say there are still 40 cars trapped "too dangerous to move".

    On one hand they don't say if that includes the 12 burnt out ones;
    on the other hand, why are between 28 and 40 others immovable if
    not because of damage to the structure.
    --
    Roland Perry

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Spike@aero.spike@mail.com to uk.legal.moderated on Thu Dec 18 16:29:18 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.legal.moderated

    Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
    Spike wrote:

    We canrCOt ban EVs because thatrCOs against the current official mantra, but a
    representative of a car dealers association said on the radio this morning >> that the UK was the only country out of step with the rest of the world on >> the issue of EV sales. I forget the word he used to describe the official
    attitude, but it might have been a close relative of rCOhallucinatingrCO. BBC
    R4 this morning at about 0615.

    06:24:40 "delusional"

    Yes! It *was* a close relative of rCOhallucinatingrCO!

    Thanks for the info.
    --
    Spike

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jon Ribbens@jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu to uk.legal.moderated on Thu Dec 18 23:36:26 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.legal.moderated

    On 2025-12-18, Spike <aero.spike@mail.com> wrote:
    Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu> wrote:
    On 2025-12-18, Spike <aero.spike@mail.com> wrote:
    Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote:
    Now being reported as caused by a fault in a diesel car.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c04vxd5nr31o

    Who'd have thought, eh. Maybe we should consider banning them.

    The last reported multi-storey car park fire was also said to be a
    diesel vehicle, but a Range Rover group maintained that it was a
    hybrid. ItrCOs just that the seat of the jets of flame came from the
    location where the battery would be.

    We canrCOt ban EVs because thatrCOs against the current official mantra, but a
    representative of a car dealers association said on the radio this morning >>> that the UK was the only country out of step with the rest of the world on >>> the issue of EV sales. I forget the word he used to describe the official >>> attitude, but it might have been a close relative of rCOhallucinatingrCO. BBC
    R4 this morning at about 0615.

    What is "the issue of EV sales", and in what way are we "out of step"?

    Something to do with government-imposed quotas, derided by the interviewee
    in the programme mentioned on the grounds that the government is dictating what people want and which is also out of line with many/most/all other governments. ItrCOs an interesting listen.

    Ah I guess they must be referring to this story:

    https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/368488/eu-axes-2035-petrol-and-diesel-car-sales-ban-uk-holds-firm-2030

    Please forgive my lack of shock that a representative of an industry
    turns out to be against regulation of his industry.

    So from 2035, 100% of UK vehicle sales must be zero-emission, whereas
    in the EU, only 90% of vehicle sales must be zero-emission. If we're
    "out of step", it's only 10% out of step.

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Spike@aero.spike@mail.com to uk.legal.moderated on Fri Dec 19 09:17:17 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.legal.moderated

    Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu> wrote:
    On 2025-12-18, Spike <aero.spike@mail.com> wrote:
    Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu> wrote:
    On 2025-12-18, Spike <aero.spike@mail.com> wrote:
    Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote:
    Now being reported as caused by a fault in a diesel car.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c04vxd5nr31o

    Who'd have thought, eh. Maybe we should consider banning them.

    The last reported multi-storey car park fire was also said to be a
    diesel vehicle, but a Range Rover group maintained that it was a
    hybrid. ItrCOs just that the seat of the jets of flame came from the
    location where the battery would be.

    We canrCOt ban EVs because thatrCOs against the current official mantra, but a
    representative of a car dealers association said on the radio this morning >>>> that the UK was the only country out of step with the rest of the world on >>>> the issue of EV sales. I forget the word he used to describe the official >>>> attitude, but it might have been a close relative of rCOhallucinatingrCO. BBC
    R4 this morning at about 0615.

    What is "the issue of EV sales", and in what way are we "out of step"?

    Something to do with government-imposed quotas, derided by the interviewee >> in the programme mentioned on the grounds that the government is dictating >> what people want and which is also out of line with many/most/all other
    governments. ItrCOs an interesting listen.

    Ah I guess they must be referring to this story:

    https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/368488/eu-axes-2035-petrol-and-diesel-car-sales-ban-uk-holds-firm-2030

    Please forgive my lack of shock that a representative of an industry
    turns out to be against regulation of his industry.

    So from 2035, 100% of UK vehicle sales must be zero-emission, whereas
    in the EU, only 90% of vehicle sales must be zero-emission. If we're
    "out of step", it's only 10% out of step.

    If thatrCOs your approach, itrCOs a good job you arenrCOt square-bashing. Your drill corporal would have you doubling round the parade ground rCytil your knees fell off, for being out by such a margin.

    Or, if you would like something scientific regarding small discrepancies, natural uranium is composed of about 99.3% Uranium-238 (U-238) and 0.7% Uranium-235 (U-235).

    When samples from the Oklo region of Gabon were analyzed, the researchers discovered that the U-235 concentration was notably lower than expected.
    This decline raised immediate questions about the origins and implications
    of this anomaly.

    The outcome was the realisation that some 2bn years ago, natural conditions existed that enabled a nuclear reactor to form. The concentration of
    Uranium and the presence of running water, which moderated the reaction, enabled the reactor to start operating. It ran for about 100,000 years in a 15-minute cycle, in which the water boiled off ending the reaction, water
    flow then started again enabling moderation of the neutron flux, and the
    cycle started again.

    All discovered from a small discrepancy.
    --
    Spike

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jon Ribbens@jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu to uk.legal.moderated on Fri Dec 19 10:34:59 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.legal.moderated

    On 2025-12-19, Spike <aero.spike@mail.com> wrote:
    Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu> wrote:
    On 2025-12-18, Spike <aero.spike@mail.com> wrote:
    Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu> wrote:
    On 2025-12-18, Spike <aero.spike@mail.com> wrote:
    Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote:
    Now being reported as caused by a fault in a diesel car.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c04vxd5nr31o

    Who'd have thought, eh. Maybe we should consider banning them.

    The last reported multi-storey car park fire was also said to be a
    diesel vehicle, but a Range Rover group maintained that it was a
    hybrid. ItrCOs just that the seat of the jets of flame came from the >>>>> location where the battery would be.

    We canrCOt ban EVs because thatrCOs against the current official mantra, but a
    representative of a car dealers association said on the radio this morning
    that the UK was the only country out of step with the rest of the world on
    the issue of EV sales. I forget the word he used to describe the official >>>>> attitude, but it might have been a close relative of rCOhallucinatingrCO. BBC
    R4 this morning at about 0615.

    What is "the issue of EV sales", and in what way are we "out of step"?

    Something to do with government-imposed quotas, derided by the interviewee >>> in the programme mentioned on the grounds that the government is dictating >>> what people want and which is also out of line with many/most/all other
    governments. ItrCOs an interesting listen.

    Ah I guess they must be referring to this story:

    https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/368488/eu-axes-2035-petrol-and-diesel-car-sales-ban-uk-holds-firm-2030

    Please forgive my lack of shock that a representative of an industry
    turns out to be against regulation of his industry.

    So from 2035, 100% of UK vehicle sales must be zero-emission, whereas
    in the EU, only 90% of vehicle sales must be zero-emission. If we're
    "out of step", it's only 10% out of step.

    If thatrCOs your approach, itrCOs a good job you arenrCOt square-bashing. Your
    drill corporal would have you doubling round the parade ground rCytil your knees fell off, for being out by such a margin.

    Or, if you would like something scientific regarding small discrepancies, natural uranium is composed of about 99.3% Uranium-238 (U-238) and 0.7% Uranium-235 (U-235).

    Yes very good, but that's all totally and utterly irrelevant given
    we're not talking about "square-bashing" or uranium isotopes.

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Spike@aero.spike@mail.com to uk.legal.moderated on Fri Dec 19 11:02:27 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.legal.moderated

    Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu> wrote:
    On 2025-12-19, Spike <aero.spike@mail.com> wrote:
    Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu> wrote:
    On 2025-12-18, Spike <aero.spike@mail.com> wrote:
    Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu> wrote:
    On 2025-12-18, Spike <aero.spike@mail.com> wrote:
    Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote:
    Now being reported as caused by a fault in a diesel car.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c04vxd5nr31o

    Who'd have thought, eh. Maybe we should consider banning them.

    The last reported multi-storey car park fire was also said to be a >>>>>> diesel vehicle, but a Range Rover group maintained that it was a
    hybrid. ItrCOs just that the seat of the jets of flame came from the >>>>>> location where the battery would be.

    We canrCOt ban EVs because thatrCOs against the current official mantra, but a
    representative of a car dealers association said on the radio this morning
    that the UK was the only country out of step with the rest of the world on
    the issue of EV sales. I forget the word he used to describe the official
    attitude, but it might have been a close relative of rCOhallucinatingrCO. BBC
    R4 this morning at about 0615.

    What is "the issue of EV sales", and in what way are we "out of step"? >>>>
    Something to do with government-imposed quotas, derided by the interviewee >>>> in the programme mentioned on the grounds that the government is dictating >>>> what people want and which is also out of line with many/most/all other >>>> governments. ItrCOs an interesting listen.

    Ah I guess they must be referring to this story:

    https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/368488/eu-axes-2035-petrol-and-diesel-car-sales-ban-uk-holds-firm-2030

    Please forgive my lack of shock that a representative of an industry
    turns out to be against regulation of his industry.

    So from 2035, 100% of UK vehicle sales must be zero-emission, whereas
    in the EU, only 90% of vehicle sales must be zero-emission. If we're
    "out of step", it's only 10% out of step.

    If thatrCOs your approach, itrCOs a good job you arenrCOt square-bashing. Your
    drill corporal would have you doubling round the parade ground rCytil your >> knees fell off, for being out by such a margin.

    Or, if you would like something scientific regarding small discrepancies,
    natural uranium is composed of about 99.3% Uranium-238 (U-238) and 0.7%
    Uranium-235 (U-235).

    Yes very good, but that's all totally and utterly irrelevant given
    we're not talking about "square-bashing" or uranium isotopes.

    Quite. What werCOre talking about is non-EVs being unavailable in the UK but being available in the rest of the world.

    So, people who still want ICE vehicles will buy them from ROW instead of
    the UK.

    Naturally, dealers here will lose this business and those in ROW will gain.
    It is little wonder that this demonstration of this rCOuseful idiotrCO of a governmentrCOs anti-business stance is described by those involved in this sector as rCOdelusionalrCO.
    --
    Spike

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jon Ribbens@jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu to uk.legal.moderated on Fri Dec 19 14:54:59 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.legal.moderated

    On 2025-12-19, Spike <aero.spike@mail.com> wrote:
    Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu> wrote:
    On 2025-12-19, Spike <aero.spike@mail.com> wrote:
    Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu> wrote:
    On 2025-12-18, Spike <aero.spike@mail.com> wrote:
    Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu> wrote:
    On 2025-12-18, Spike <aero.spike@mail.com> wrote:
    Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote:
    Now being reported as caused by a fault in a diesel car.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c04vxd5nr31o

    Who'd have thought, eh. Maybe we should consider banning them.

    The last reported multi-storey car park fire was also said to be a >>>>>>> diesel vehicle, but a Range Rover group maintained that it was a >>>>>>> hybrid. ItrCOs just that the seat of the jets of flame came from the >>>>>>> location where the battery would be.

    We canrCOt ban EVs because thatrCOs against the current official mantra, but a
    representative of a car dealers association said on the radio this morning
    that the UK was the only country out of step with the rest of the world on
    the issue of EV sales. I forget the word he used to describe the official
    attitude, but it might have been a close relative of rCOhallucinatingrCO. BBC
    R4 this morning at about 0615.

    What is "the issue of EV sales", and in what way are we "out of step"? >>>>>
    Something to do with government-imposed quotas, derided by the interviewee
    in the programme mentioned on the grounds that the government is dictating
    what people want and which is also out of line with many/most/all other >>>>> governments. ItrCOs an interesting listen.

    Ah I guess they must be referring to this story:

    https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/368488/eu-axes-2035-petrol-and-diesel-car-sales-ban-uk-holds-firm-2030

    Please forgive my lack of shock that a representative of an industry
    turns out to be against regulation of his industry.

    So from 2035, 100% of UK vehicle sales must be zero-emission, whereas
    in the EU, only 90% of vehicle sales must be zero-emission. If we're
    "out of step", it's only 10% out of step.

    If thatrCOs your approach, itrCOs a good job you arenrCOt square-bashing. Your
    drill corporal would have you doubling round the parade ground rCytil your >>> knees fell off, for being out by such a margin.

    Or, if you would like something scientific regarding small discrepancies, >>> natural uranium is composed of about 99.3% Uranium-238 (U-238) and 0.7%
    Uranium-235 (U-235).

    Yes very good, but that's all totally and utterly irrelevant given
    we're not talking about "square-bashing" or uranium isotopes.

    Quite. What werCOre talking about is non-EVs being unavailable in the UK but being available in the rest of the world.

    So, people who still want ICE vehicles will buy them from ROW instead of
    the UK.

    Naturally, dealers here will lose this business and those in ROW will gain. It is little wonder that this demonstration of this rCOuseful idiotrCO of a governmentrCOs anti-business stance is described by those involved in this sector as rCOdelusionalrCO.

    Reading all of the above, "delusional" is certainly a word that springs
    to mind, I'll give you that much.

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Roland Perry@roland@perry.uk to uk.legal.moderated on Sat Dec 20 07:05:41 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.legal.moderated

    In message <nbLyCfKCZCRpFAj2@perry.uk>, at 16:05:22 on Thu, 18 Dec 2025, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> remarked:
    Update Thursday (five days after the fire):

    NCP say there are still 40 cars trapped "too dangerous to move".

    On one hand they don't say if that includes the 12 burnt out ones;
    on the other hand, why are between 28 and 40 others immovable if
    not because of damage to the structure.

    Final update: car park reopened at 6pm Friday 19th, just in time for
    Saturday Stagecoach bus driver strike which will severely limit P&R
    capacity.
    --
    Roland Perry

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Martin Brown@'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk to uk.legal.moderated on Sat Dec 20 11:46:09 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.legal.moderated

    On 20/12/2025 07:05, Roland Perry wrote:
    In message <nbLyCfKCZCRpFAj2@perry.uk>, at 16:05:22 on Thu, 18 Dec 2025, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> remarked:
    Update Thursday (five days after the fire):

    NCP say there are still 40 cars trapped "too dangerous to move".

    On one hand they don't say if that includes the 12 burnt out ones;
    on the other hand, why are between 28 and 40 others immovable if
    not because of damage to the structure.

    Final update: car park reopened at 6pm Friday 19th, just in time for Saturday Stagecoach bus driver strike which will severely limit P&R capacity.

    Full marks to NCP then. It can't have been easy to sort it out that
    quickly. Other carparks with similar multiple car fires have been shut
    for weeks or if the structural damage is severe many months.
    --
    Martin Brown


    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Norman Wells@hex@unseen.ac.am to uk.legal.moderated on Sat Dec 20 18:42:11 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.legal.moderated

    On 19/12/2025 15:07, Roger Hayter wrote:
    On 19 Dec 2025 at 14:54:59 GMT, "Jon Ribbens" <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu> wrote:

    Naturally, dealers here will lose this business and those in ROW will gain. >>> It is little wonder that this demonstration of this rCOuseful idiotrCO of a >>> governmentrCOs anti-business stance is described by those involved in this >>> sector as rCOdelusionalrCO.

    Reading all of the above, "delusional" is certainly a word that springs
    to mind, I'll give you that much.

    I prefer "deluded", not being an American.

    In believing that 'delusional' is an Americanism, I think you've been
    deluded.


    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Roger Hayter@roger@hayter.org to uk.legal.moderated on Sat Dec 20 23:29:22 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.legal.moderated

    On 20 Dec 2025 at 18:42:11 GMT, "Norman Wells" <hex@unseen.ac.am> wrote:

    On 19/12/2025 15:07, Roger Hayter wrote:
    On 19 Dec 2025 at 14:54:59 GMT, "Jon Ribbens" <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu>
    wrote:

    Naturally, dealers here will lose this business and those in ROW will gain.
    It is little wonder that this demonstration of this rCOuseful idiotrCO of a
    governmentrCOs anti-business stance is described by those involved in this >>>> sector as rCOdelusionalrCO.

    Reading all of the above, "delusional" is certainly a word that springs
    to mind, I'll give you that much.

    I prefer "deluded", not being an American.

    In believing that 'delusional' is an Americanism, I think you've been deluded.

    I don't think 'delude' is transitive. The word you are looking for is
    'misled'. Or substitute 'are' for ' have been'.
    --

    Roger Hayter

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Norman Wells@hex@unseen.ac.am to uk.legal.moderated on Sun Dec 21 08:34:44 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.legal.moderated

    On 20/12/2025 23:29, Roger Hayter wrote:
    On 20 Dec 2025 at 18:42:11 GMT, "Norman Wells" <hex@unseen.ac.am> wrote:

    On 19/12/2025 15:07, Roger Hayter wrote:
    On 19 Dec 2025 at 14:54:59 GMT, "Jon Ribbens" <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu> >>> wrote:

    Naturally, dealers here will lose this business and those in ROW will gain.
    It is little wonder that this demonstration of this rCOuseful idiotrCO of a
    governmentrCOs anti-business stance is described by those involved in this
    sector as rCOdelusionalrCO.

    Reading all of the above, "delusional" is certainly a word that springs >>>> to mind, I'll give you that much.

    I prefer "deluded", not being an American.

    In believing that 'delusional' is an Americanism, I think you've been
    deluded.

    I don't think 'delude' is transitive.

    Then you should have looked it up despite your general reluctance.

    The word you are looking for is 'misled'. Or substitute 'are' for ' have been'.

    The word I meant, and correctly used, was 'deluded'.



    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Spike@aero.spike@mail.com to uk.legal.moderated on Sun Dec 21 09:06:16 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.legal.moderated

    Roger Hayter <roger@hayter.org> wrote:
    On 20 Dec 2025 at 18:42:11 GMT, "Norman Wells" <hex@unseen.ac.am> wrote:

    On 19/12/2025 15:07, Roger Hayter wrote:
    On 19 Dec 2025 at 14:54:59 GMT, "Jon Ribbens" <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu> >>> wrote:

    Naturally, dealers here will lose this business and those in ROW will gain.
    It is little wonder that this demonstration of this rCOuseful idiotrCO of a
    governmentrCOs anti-business stance is described by those involved in this
    sector as rCOdelusionalrCO.

    Reading all of the above, "delusional" is certainly a word that springs >>>> to mind, I'll give you that much.

    I prefer "deluded", not being an American.

    In believing that 'delusional' is an Americanism, I think you've been
    deluded.

    I don't think 'delude' is transitive. The word you are looking for is 'misled'. Or substitute 'are' for ' have been'.

    That doesnrCOt matter. rCyDelusionalrCO and rCydeludedrCO have different meanings, at
    least in British English. Check a good dictionary if in doubt.

    The interviewee who used the word in relation to the governmentrCOs policy on EVs probably did so knowing its meaning, without quite saying that that is
    the normal state of mind of Marxist-Leninist governments.
    --
    Spike

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From JNugent@JNugent73@mail.com to uk.legal.moderated on Sun Dec 21 11:56:54 2025
    From Newsgroup: uk.legal.moderated

    On 20/12/2025 11:29 pm, Roger Hayter wrote:
    On 20 Dec 2025 at 18:42:11 GMT, "Norman Wells" <hex@unseen.ac.am> wrote:

    On 19/12/2025 15:07, Roger Hayter wrote:
    On 19 Dec 2025 at 14:54:59 GMT, "Jon Ribbens" <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu> >>> wrote:

    Naturally, dealers here will lose this business and those in ROW will gain.
    It is little wonder that this demonstration of this rCOuseful idiotrCO of a
    governmentrCOs anti-business stance is described by those involved in this
    sector as rCOdelusionalrCO.

    Reading all of the above, "delusional" is certainly a word that springs >>>> to mind, I'll give you that much.

    I prefer "deluded", not being an American.

    In believing that 'delusional' is an Americanism, I think you've been
    deluded.

    I don't think 'delude' is transitive. The word you are looking for is 'misled'. Or substitute 'are' for ' have been'.

    "Delude" is a transitive verb.

    So is "mislead", of course.

    I can agree that in some modern usage, "deluded" is taken to mean "self-deluded". But it doesn't work on its own ("he deluded"?) and the
    implied "self-" shows why the verb is transitive.

    I can't get access to the OED, but here's the Cambridge:

    <https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/delude>

    QUOTE:

    to make someone believe something that is not true:
    delude yourself He's deluding himself if he thinks he's going to be
    promoted this year.
    She has deluded the public into believing she is something that she is not.

    Compare
    deceive
    Related word
    deluded
    ENDQUOTE


    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2