• Re: OT: Petition to double UK pensioner's tax free allowance

    From Max Demian@max_demian@bigfoot.com to uk.d-i-y on Tue Feb 17 17:55:40 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 17/02/2026 17:20, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 17/02/2026 16:42, Simon Simple wrote:
    On 17/02/2026 13:50, Andrew wrote:

    The problem is that house prices and rents are too high and
    that is all down to overpopulation and greed.

    Rents are high because house prices are high.-a Why let a house for
    less than your return from some savings account after selling it?

    House prices are high because it's pretty much a free market.-a It's
    pretty much a free market because there's no low cost state-owned
    housing as competition nowadays.

    Because Thatcher.-a (And overpopulation.)

    Because Blair actually
    He made a fortune out of insider trading on property.

    ...and because of working women. <g>
    --
    Max Demian
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  • From Nick Finnigan@nix@genie.co.uk to uk.d-i-y on Tue Feb 17 20:55:49 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 17/02/2026 17:40, JNugent wrote:
    On 17/02/2026 05:05 pm, Nick Finnigan wrote:

    On 17/02/2026 15:11, RJH wrote:


    Secondly, it's easy to get bogged down with what-ifs to the point
    of abandoning the principle. So while I accept that mobilising
    redistribution would be an enormous technical exercise needing
    considerable thought, that's not a good enough reason not to
    do it.

    -a-aHow about a 40% inheritance tax ?

    For what purpose, other than to deliberately downgrade the value of what one's children can inherit?

    To discuss whether 'an enormous technical exercise needing considerable thought' is need to adopt the principle of redistributing half of the top 10%'s wealth; whether any developed country with such a tax has a fairer distribution of wealth than the UK; whether there are unexpected
    consequences of the attempted redistribution ...
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  • From JNugent@JNugent73@mail.com to uk.d-i-y on Tue Feb 17 22:23:08 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 17/02/2026 08:55 pm, Nick Finnigan wrote:

    On 17/02/2026 17:40, JNugent wrote:
    On 17/02/2026 05:05 pm, Nick Finnigan wrote:
    On 17/02/2026 15:11, RJH wrote:

    Secondly, it's easy to get bogged down with what-ifs to the point
    of abandoning the principle. So while I accept that mobilising
    redistribution would be an enormous technical exercise needing
    considerable thought, that's not a good enough reason not to
    do it.

    -a-aHow about a 40% inheritance tax ?

    For what purpose, other than to deliberately downgrade the value of
    what one's children can inherit?

    -aTo discuss whether 'an enormous technical exercise needing
    considerable thought' is need to adopt the principle of redistributing
    half of the top 10%'s wealth; whether any developed country with such a
    tax has a fairer distribution of wealth than the UK; whether there are unexpected consequences of the attempted redistribution ...

    Would your suggested "40%" rule only affect the "top 10%" of the population?

    And anyway, what justification could there be for the confiscation of
    the assets of anyone who has gained them lawfully?

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  • From Nick Finnigan@nix@genie.co.uk to uk.d-i-y on Tue Feb 17 23:13:48 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 17/02/2026 22:23, JNugent wrote:
    On 17/02/2026 08:55 pm, Nick Finnigan wrote:

    On 17/02/2026 17:40, JNugent wrote:
    On 17/02/2026 05:05 pm, Nick Finnigan wrote:
    On 17/02/2026 15:11, RJH wrote:

    Secondly, it's easy to get bogged down with what-ifs to the point
    of abandoning the principle. So while I accept that mobilising
    redistribution would be an enormous technical exercise needing
    considerable thought, that's not a good enough reason not to
    do it.

    -a-aHow about a 40% inheritance tax ?

    For what purpose, other than to deliberately downgrade the value of what >>> one's children can inherit?

    -a-aTo discuss whether 'an enormous technical exercise needing considerable >> thought' is need to adopt the principle of redistributing half of the top >> 10%'s wealth; whether any developed country with such a tax has a fairer
    distribution of wealth than the UK; whether there are unexpected
    consequences of the attempted redistribution ...

    Would your suggested "40%" rule only affect the "top 10%" of the population?

    That is open for discussion.

    And anyway, what justification could there be for the confiscation of the assets of anyone who has gained them lawfully?

    I haven't suggested there is any.
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  • From The Natural Philosopher@tnp@invalid.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Wed Feb 18 11:51:06 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 17/02/2026 17:40, JNugent wrote:
    On 17/02/2026 05:05 pm, Nick Finnigan wrote:

    On 17/02/2026 15:11, RJH wrote:

    Most people wouldn't be affected - it's from the very rich
    (say -u20m+, for the sake of discussion) to the relatively poor.
    FWIW if I was in charge I'd probably rehouse the rich post-
    liquidation of assets. Possibly.

    -a-aWho would buy a -u10m property which you've just taken from the
    previous owner?

    Secondly, it's easy to get bogged down with what-ifs to the point
    of abandoning the principle. So while I accept that mobilising
    redistribution would be an enormous technical exercise needing
    considerable thought, that's not a good enough reason not to
    do it.

    -a-aHow about a 40% inheritance tax ?

    For what purpose, other than to deliberately downgrade the value of what one's children can inherit?

    All property is theft. So the government steals it back
    Normal communism
    --
    "It was a lot more fun being 20 in the 70's that it is being 70 in the 20's" Joew Walsh

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  • From The Natural Philosopher@tnp@invalid.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Wed Feb 18 11:53:03 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 17/02/2026 17:53, Max Demian wrote:
    Why should people on the state pension have to rely on means tested benefits? What if they have (modest) savings? Do they have to squander
    them so they can qualify?
    Yes.
    Only after his savings were gone was my friend able to qualify for state
    care.
    He died on Sunday.


    Means tested benefits are for "poor" people.
    Why should people who wouldn't regard themselves as poor have to rely on handouts?

    Because the government makes them poor first
    --
    "It was a lot more fun being 20 in the 70's that it is being 70 in the 20's" Joew Walsh

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  • From nospam@nospam@please.invalid (AnthonyL) to uk.d-i-y on Wed Feb 18 12:25:50 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On Tue, 17 Feb 2026 13:50:26 +0000, Andrew <Andrew97d@btinternet.com>
    wrote:

    On 17/02/2026 11:55, Max Demian wrote:
    On 16/02/2026 13:14, Andrew wrote:

    Why should a pensioner get a stonking (unearned) increase in state
    pension and then be excused paying tax on the small amount because
    it has exceeded the personal allowance, whereas a working person
    is being hit with increased NI contributions (directly or indirectly
    via increased taxation on the employer) ?.

    The solution is simple. Get rid of the triple lock and do not
    allow the state pension to exceed the personal allowance.
    QED if the personal allowance is frozen, so should the state
    pension be.

    As I said before, there's no way anyone who pays rent can live on the
    state pension.


    In which case housing benefit would pay the rent anyway and if
    pension credit was claimed loads more freebies would be on
    offer.

    For most people the state pension pays out far more than they
    ever paid in via NI and net tax during their lives.


    The NI contributions are not, and never were as far as I am aware, a
    personal and individual "savings" plan for retirement. They were and
    to meet the current liability for pensions.
    --
    AnthonyL

    Why ever wait to finish a job before starting the next?
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From RJH@patchmoney@gmx.com to uk.d-i-y on Wed Feb 18 16:53:14 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 17 Feb 2026 at 17:05:00 GMT, Nick Finnigan wrote:

    On 17/02/2026 15:11, RJH wrote:

    Most people wouldn't
    be affected - it's from the very rich (say -u20m+, for the sake of discussion)
    to the relatively poor. FWIW if I was in charge I'd probably rehouse the rich
    post-liquidation of assets. Possibly.

    Who would buy a -u10m property which you've just taken from the previous owner?


    Student housing, HMOs, flats. A surprising number of homes can be extracted from just one oligarch's mansion/grounds.

    Again, though, the detail is complicated. Just commit to the principle and
    then leave it to the experts.

    Secondly, it's easy
    to get bogged down with what-ifs to the point of abandoning the principle. So
    while I accept that mobilising redistribution would be an enormous technical >> exercise needing considerable thought, that's not a good enough reason not to
    do it.

    How about a 40% inheritance tax ?

    In the 1960s 100% was mooted. But by then owner occupation had become too embedded. Cries of 'what about my childrens' inheritance' etc.

    I'd support 100% inheritance tax in the UK. Inheritance is set to be the
    single largest cause of inequality in the UK over the next 30 years.
    --
    Cheers, Rob, Sheffield UK
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  • From RJH@patchmoney@gmx.com to uk.d-i-y on Wed Feb 18 16:57:52 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 18 Feb 2026 at 11:51:06 GMT, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    On 17/02/2026 17:40, JNugent wrote:
    On 17/02/2026 05:05 pm, Nick Finnigan wrote:

    On 17/02/2026 15:11, RJH wrote:

    Most people wouldn't be affected - it's from the very rich
    (say -u20m+, for the sake of discussion) to the relatively poor.
    FWIW if I was in charge I'd probably rehouse the rich post-
    liquidation of assets. Possibly.

    Who would buy a -u10m property which you've just taken from the
    previous owner?

    Secondly, it's easy to get bogged down with what-ifs to the point
    of abandoning the principle. So while I accept that mobilising
    redistribution would be an enormous technical exercise needing
    considerable thought, that's not a good enough reason not to
    do it.

    How about a 40% inheritance tax ?

    For what purpose, other than to deliberately downgrade the value of what
    one's children can inherit?

    All property is theft. So the government steals it back
    Normal communism

    That's called socialism - the bridge between capitialism ending and whatever follows.

    Communism is the point at which the people take possession from the state - hence 'commune'. It remains a theory - happened in parts (Cuba for example)
    but never wholesale. Capitalism's just too resilient right now.
    --
    Cheers, Rob, Sheffield UK
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From The Natural Philosopher@tnp@invalid.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Wed Feb 18 17:47:04 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 18/02/2026 16:57, RJH wrote:
    On 18 Feb 2026 at 11:51:06 GMT, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    On 17/02/2026 17:40, JNugent wrote:
    On 17/02/2026 05:05 pm, Nick Finnigan wrote:

    On 17/02/2026 15:11, RJH wrote:

    Most people wouldn't be affected - it's from the very rich
    (say -u20m+, for the sake of discussion) to the relatively poor.
    FWIW if I was in charge I'd probably rehouse the rich post-
    liquidation of assets. Possibly.

    Who would buy a -u10m property which you've just taken from the
    previous owner?

    Secondly, it's easy to get bogged down with what-ifs to the point
    of abandoning the principle. So while I accept that mobilising
    redistribution would be an enormous technical exercise needing
    considerable thought, that's not a good enough reason not to
    do it.

    How about a 40% inheritance tax ?

    For what purpose, other than to deliberately downgrade the value of what >>> one's children can inherit?

    All property is theft. So the government steals it back
    Normal communism

    That's called socialism - the bridge between capitialism ending and whatever follows.

    Communism is the point at which the people take possession from the state - hence 'commune'. It remains a theory - happened in parts (Cuba for example) but never wholesale. Capitalism's just too resilient right now.

    Er no. Thats what is supposed to *follow* communism,

    First of all the state takes everybody's wealth, that's what communism is.

    Somehow whenever they have done that, then never ever give it to the people
    --
    Climate Change: Socialism wearing a lab coat.

    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From alan_m@junk@admac.myzen.co.uk to uk.d-i-y on Wed Feb 18 17:51:52 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 18/02/2026 16:53, RJH wrote:


    I'd support 100% inheritance tax in the UK. Inheritance is set to be the single largest cause of inequality in the UK over the next 30 years.


    Potential consequences again.

    I know someone who was renting has effectively inherited the parents
    house. Previously, and close to retirement with a small pension on top
    of the state pension, the state probably would have to provide housing
    benefit etc. Now as a house owner the eligibility for extra benefits no longer applies.

    The vast majority of those inheriting are not the super rich! The super
    rich probably have already put in place other legal methods of
    transferring wealth.
    --
    mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From The Natural Philosopher@tnp@invalid.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Wed Feb 18 19:12:33 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 18/02/2026 17:51, alan_m wrote:
    On 18/02/2026 16:53, RJH wrote:


    I'd support 100% inheritance tax in the UK. Inheritance is set to be the
    single largest cause of inequality in the UK over the next 30 years.


    Potential consequences again.

    Rob never looks beyond the surface.

    Let's say at death whatever I have left over goes to the government.
    What do I do?

    I mortgage my house to the hilt and buy assets in countries beyond the
    UK's jurisdiction and spend the rest now on presents for my family,.
    Expensive presents.

    And when its all gone I sign on to social services to get as much from
    the system as I can.


    I know someone who was renting has effectively inherited the parents
    house. Previously, and close to retirement with a small pension on top
    of the state pension, the state probably would have to provide housing benefit etc.-a Now as a house owner the eligibility for extra benefits no longer applies.

    The vast majority of those inheriting are not the super rich!-a The super rich probably have already put in place other legal methods of
    transferring wealth.

    Indeed. The super rich lost their properties in the 1920s.

    Asset taxes always destroy assets
    --
    In a Time of Universal Deceit, Telling the Truth Is a Revolutionary Act.

    - George Orwell

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  • From Indy Jess John@bathwatchdog@OMITTHISgooglemail.com to uk.d-i-y on Thu Feb 19 13:42:21 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 17/02/2026 17:53, Max Demian wrote:


    Why should people on the state pension have to rely on means tested benefits? What if they have (modest) savings? Do they have to squander
    them so they can qualify? Means tested benefits are for "poor" people.
    Why should people who wouldn't regard themselves as poor have to rely on handouts?

    Old history because both the people concerned are now dead:
    My mum spent many years staying at home looking after us kids born at intervals over a 10-year period, so at retirement age she only had the
    state pension and she qualified for the pension supplement. Her sister
    (my aunt) worked for just a few years as a Post Office switchboard
    operator, and thus at retirement age it automatically gave her a small
    Post Office pension, just enough to tip her over the pension supplement threshold. So she just had state pension plus Post Office pension

    Outcome: my mum with the pension supplement had a slightly higher
    pension income than my aunt did. It was good for the Treasury, less good
    for the person concerned.

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  • From nospam@nospam@please.invalid (AnthonyL) to uk.d-i-y on Fri Feb 20 13:49:04 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On Mon, 16 Feb 2026 14:16:08 +0000, Andrew <Andrew97d@btinternet.com>
    wrote:

    On 15/02/2026 22:41, JNugent wrote:
    On 14/02/2026 07:23 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    On 14/02/2026 18:12, JNugent wrote:
    On 14/02/2026 10:05, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 14/02/2026 09:58, RJH wrote:
    On 14 Feb 2026 at 08:14:54 GMT, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 13/02/2026 16:26, RJH wrote:

    Sounds ominous - as if they're proposing to freeze the Personal >>>>>>>> Allownance for a while yet.

    They are having to learn that waving a magic socialist wand does not >>>>>>> create wealth.

    Then UK has plentiful wealth. No need to wave anything - fairly
    redistribute and you're done.

    Bless!

    And are busy taking it from people who are too old to
    complain and wouldn't vote for them anyway.

    That's a very high risk assumption.

    Not really. Not many people are still voting for them at all.

    Just the people who are affluent but think they come from the
    'working class'

    Whatever one's later / current state of affluence, the question of
    into which social class one was born or within which one was raised
    is surely not a matter requiring much in the way of empirical judgment? >>>>
    Sadly it seems to be

    Is Starmer working class?

    No. AIUI, his father was not a toolmaker as that term is usually
    understood.

    His father owned an engineering business that was a toolmakers.

    Slight difference.

    So his father's business succeeded in making a tool. That'll go down
    in history.
    --
    AnthonyL

    Why ever wait to finish a job before starting the next?
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Fredxx@fredxx@spam.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Fri Feb 20 23:44:56 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 13/02/2026 12:45, No mail wrote:
    For those of a certain age who resent having to pay tax on their
    pensions and other income, there currently is a petition to parliament
    to double the state pensioners tax-free allowance. Link below to sign, current stands at 105,314 signatories.

    https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/740671

    I'll happily sign if I got the same pensions and tax code.

    Otherwise the leaches and parasites who contribute nothing to the UK
    economy but get free prescriptions, free travel etc can go f**k themselves.
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From JNugent@JNugent73@mail.com to uk.d-i-y on Sun Feb 22 19:14:58 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 20/02/2026 11:44 pm, Fredxx wrote:

    On 13/02/2026 12:45, No mail wrote:

    For those of a certain age who resent having to pay tax on their
    pensions and other income, there currently is a petition to parliament
    to double the state pensioners tax-free allowance. Link below to sign,
    current stands at 105,314 signatories.

    https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/740671

    I'll happily sign if I got the same pensions and tax code.

    Otherwise the leaches and parasites who contribute nothing to the UK
    economy but get free prescriptions, free travel etc can go f**k themselves.

    You don't hope or expect to reach pension age, then?
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  • From JNugent@JNugent73@mail.com to uk.d-i-y on Sun Feb 22 23:26:50 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 22/02/2026 07:14 pm, JNugent wrote:

    On 20/02/2026 11:44 pm, Fredxx wrote:
    On 13/02/2026 12:45, No mail wrote:

    For those of a certain age who resent having to pay tax on their
    pensions and other income, there currently is a petition to
    parliament to double the state pensioners tax-free allowance. Link
    below to sign, current stands at 105,314 signatories.

    https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/740671

    I'll happily sign if I got the same pensions and tax code.
    Otherwise the leaches and parasites who contribute nothing to the UK
    economy but get free prescriptions, free travel etc can go f**k
    themselves.

    You don't hope or expect to reach pension age, then?

    Incidentally, I *have* reached pension age, but I declined to sign that petition for some people to have bigger tax-free allowances than others
    simply based on the nature of their source of income (and not on some genuinely needs-based consideration).

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