• Re: OT: UPS manufacturer Update - Update

    From Davey@davey@example.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Fri Jan 9 10:26:34 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On Sat, 29 Nov 2025 12:47:27 +0000
    Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:

    On 29 Nov 2025 11:37:05 GMT
    Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> wrote:

    On Sat, 29 Nov 2025 11:11:59 +0000, Davey wrote:

    On Wed, 26 Nov 2025 11:35:24 +0000 Davey <davey@example.invalid>
    wrote:
    After an hour-long power cut this morning, when I discovered that
    my APC UPS had yet again lost its battery power, I looked at
    other manufacturers. I am only looking for a domestic system,
    not any of the massive-capacity units that were discussed
    recently (not sure in which NG). I see Vida, Powercool and Power
    Walker are favoured by CPC. Are they good, specifically can they
    hold their capacity for more years than a typical APC unit?
    Advice welcome.

    --
    Davey.

    I have received the Eaton unit, and put it on charge for 24 hours,
    as instructed in the minimalist manual. It told me to go to an
    Eaton webpage to download the software, but the exact page did
    not exist. I eventually found the right page, after maybe 20
    minutes floundering around in an unfamiliar website, which seemed
    to have no easy way to find what I wanted. But I found it,
    software for an Ubuntu 64-bit AMD system.
    I will try it after installing the unit.

    Thanks for all the help and discussions, much appreciated.

    One last thing. If the functionality is what what you need, Eaton
    are supported by NUT.

    https://networkupstools.org/ddl/Eaton/





    Yes, somebody mentioned that!

    This has been, as they say, a journey.
    I received the Eaton unit, and put it on charge as instructed. After
    the required 24 hrs, I moved it to its future location in the study, and
    turned it on. It worked for a while, then stopped.
    Attempts to restart it resulted in the indicator lights on the top
    flashing red/green/red/green a few times, then nothing at all, and
    certainly no power output. The online manual does not describe this
    light sequence, so I contacted Customer Service. They asked me to do
    a procedure to disconnect the battery, let it lose any programming,
    and then repeat the 24 hr charge, which I did, for no effect.They set up
    an RMA for me, without any problem. I then checked the outlet for any connection problems, but could find none, in case my house wiring,
    which recently passed an Electrical Certification for insurance
    purposes, had a problem causing this. The explanation of the light
    sequence I was seeing was that it indicated an internal fault.
    The replacement unit behaved exactly the same except it never ran at
    all. I did the same battery disconnect and recharge, no change.
    Although Eaton had never suggested that my house wiring may have a
    problem, I engaged my licensed electrician to check the wiring, and he
    gave it a full clean bill of health.
    I received another RMA, and the third unit was delivered. And it
    behaved exactly the same way, so I now have three non-functioning UPSs.
    I have yet to receive a response about the third. As for the first two,
    Eaton do not want them back, even to analyse the fault, which seems
    strange to me. Do they already know what the problem is? If so, why do
    they not fix it? They seem to have no problem issuing RMAs to send me a
    new unit.
    I have asked for my money back, as I still have no UPS.

    I now would like a recommendation for a different supplier to try.
    --
    Davey.

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Andy Burns@usenet@andyburns.uk to uk.d-i-y on Fri Jan 9 10:59:13 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    Davey wrote:

    I now have three non-functioning UPSs.
    I have yet to receive a response about the third. As for the first two,
    Eaton do not want them back, even to analyse the fault, which seems
    strange to me.

    Could you try them at work, or in a neighbour's house?

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Davey@davey@example.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Fri Jan 9 11:26:45 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On Fri, 9 Jan 2026 10:59:13 +0000
    Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:

    Davey wrote:

    I now have three non-functioning UPSs.
    I have yet to receive a response about the third. As for the first
    two, Eaton do not want them back, even to analyse the fault, which
    seems strange to me.

    Could you try them at work, or in a neighbour's house?


    I retired from work some years ago! I am now 75 years old. But I could
    try a neighbour's house, yes. At the moment, I am getting ready to make
    a video of what happens on attempted startup, at Eaton's request. They
    have also said that they do not give credit, but will continue this
    process until it works. I replied that, if it goes on much longer, I
    will invoke my option under the Consumer Rights Act for a refund for
    faulty goods, and that I will happily co-operate in sending any or all
    units back so they can find out what is wrong. They have expressed no
    interest in what is, to me, a basic troubleshooting process. My next
    trip to my local WEEE recycling centre will be loaded down with an
    excess of UPS units.

    Watch this space.....
    --
    Davey.

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From The Natural Philosopher@tnp@invalid.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Fri Jan 9 11:57:34 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 09/01/2026 11:26, Davey wrote:
    They
    have also said that they do not give credit, but will continue this
    process until it works. I replied that, if it goes on much longer, I
    will invoke my option under the Consumer Rights Act for a refund for
    faulty goods, and that I will happily co-operate in sending any or all
    units back so they can find out what is wrong.

    Correct approach. Document everything.
    What is the status of a credit card or debit card purchase?
    You might be able to get the transaction reversed.
    --
    If I had all the money I've spent on drink...
    ..I'd spend it on drink.

    Sir Henry (at Rawlinson's End)

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From David Wade@dave@is.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Fri Jan 9 13:30:57 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 09/01/2026 12:26, Davey wrote:
    On Fri, 9 Jan 2026 10:59:13 +0000
    Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:

    Davey wrote:

    I now have three non-functioning UPSs.
    I have yet to receive a response about the third. As for the first
    two, Eaton do not want them back, even to analyse the fault, which
    seems strange to me.

    Could you try them at work, or in a neighbour's house?


    I retired from work some years ago! I am now 75 years old. But I could
    try a neighbour's house, yes. At the moment, I am getting ready to make
    a video of what happens on attempted startup, at Eaton's request. They
    have also said that they do not give credit, but will continue this
    process until it works. I replied that, if it goes on much longer, I
    will invoke my option under the Consumer Rights Act for a refund for
    faulty goods, and that I will happily co-operate in sending any or all
    units back so they can find out what is wrong. They have expressed no interest in what is, to me, a basic troubleshooting process. My next
    trip to my local WEEE recycling centre will be loaded down with an
    excess of UPS units.

    Watch this space.....

    what on earth could be wrong with any ones house wiring to cause this?

    Dave
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Andy Burns@usenet@andyburns.uk to uk.d-i-y on Fri Jan 9 13:03:33 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    David Wade wrote:

    what on earth could be wrong with any ones house wiring to cause this?

    Various possibilities, but if an electrician has done checks they've presumably been ruled-out (L/N reversed, high impedance earth, broken N
    in neighbouring property or street)

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From The Natural Philosopher@tnp@invalid.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Fri Jan 9 13:13:06 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 09/01/2026 12:30, David Wade wrote:
    On 09/01/2026 12:26, Davey wrote:
    On Fri, 9 Jan 2026 10:59:13 +0000
    Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:

    Davey wrote:

    I now have three non-functioning UPSs.
    I have yet to receive a response about the third. As for the first
    two, Eaton do not want them back, even to analyse the fault, which
    seems strange to me.

    Could you try them at work, or in a neighbour's house?


    I retired from work some years ago! I am now 75 years old. But I could
    try a neighbour's house, yes. At the moment, I am getting ready to make
    a video of what happens on attempted startup, at Eaton's request. They
    have also said that they do not give credit, but will continue this
    process until it works. I replied that, if it goes on much longer, I
    will invoke my option under the Consumer Rights Act for a refund for
    faulty goods, and that I will happily co-operate in sending any or all
    units back so they can find out what is wrong. They have expressed no
    interest in what is, to me, a basic troubleshooting process. My next
    trip to my local WEEE recycling centre will be loaded down with an
    excess of UPS units.

    Watch this space.....

    what on earth could be wrong with any ones house wiring to cause this?

    JUST possibly a high impedance socket...that cannot deliver current.

    Dave
    --
    rCLThe fundamental cause of the trouble in the modern world today is that
    the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt."

    - Bertrand Russell


    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From David Wade@dave@is.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Fri Jan 9 14:35:49 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 09/01/2026 14:03, Andy Burns wrote:
    David Wade wrote:

    what on earth could be wrong with any ones house wiring to cause this?

    Various possibilities, but if an electrician has done checks they've presumably been ruled-out (L/N reversed, high impedance earth, broken N
    in neighbouring property or street)


    How would any of these cause issues with a UPS. It MUST not pass any
    current down the earth wire otherwise it would trip RCDs and fail a PAT
    test. If there was a neutral fault everything else wouldn't work.

    Its CE marked, and as continental mains sockets are reservable
    live/neutral interchange should also be a non-issue.

    Dave
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From David Wade@dave@is.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Fri Jan 9 14:38:22 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 09/01/2026 14:13, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 09/01/2026 12:30, David Wade wrote:
    On 09/01/2026 12:26, Davey wrote:
    On Fri, 9 Jan 2026 10:59:13 +0000
    Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:

    Davey wrote:

    I now have three non-functioning UPSs.
    I have yet to receive a response about the third. As for the first
    two, Eaton do not want them back, even to analyse the fault, which
    seems strange to me.

    Could you try them at work, or in a neighbour's house?


    I retired from work some years ago! I am now 75 years old. But I could
    try a neighbour's house, yes. At the moment, I am getting ready to make
    a video of what happens on attempted startup, at Eaton's request. They
    have also said that they do not give credit, but will continue this
    process until it works. I replied that, if it goes on much longer, I
    will invoke my option under the Consumer Rights Act for a refund for
    faulty goods, and that I will happily co-operate in sending any or all
    units back so they can find out what is wrong. They have expressed no
    interest in what is, to me, a basic troubleshooting process. My next
    trip to my local WEEE recycling centre will be loaded down with an
    excess of UPS units.

    Watch this space.....

    what on earth could be wrong with any ones house wiring to cause this?

    JUST possibly a high impedance socket...that cannot deliver current.


    So in that case, things plugged directly into the socket wouldn't work.

    Dave


    Dave
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Paul@nospam@needed.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Fri Jan 9 08:46:22 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On Fri, 1/9/2026 6:26 AM, Davey wrote:
    On Fri, 9 Jan 2026 10:59:13 +0000
    Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:

    Davey wrote:

    I now have three non-functioning UPSs.
    I have yet to receive a response about the third. As for the first
    two, Eaton do not want them back, even to analyse the fault, which
    seems strange to me.

    Could you try them at work, or in a neighbour's house?


    I retired from work some years ago! I am now 75 years old. But I could
    try a neighbour's house, yes. At the moment, I am getting ready to make
    a video of what happens on attempted startup, at Eaton's request. They
    have also said that they do not give credit, but will continue this
    process until it works. I replied that, if it goes on much longer, I
    will invoke my option under the Consumer Rights Act for a refund for
    faulty goods, and that I will happily co-operate in sending any or all
    units back so they can find out what is wrong. They have expressed no interest in what is, to me, a basic troubleshooting process. My next
    trip to my local WEEE recycling centre will be loaded down with an
    excess of UPS units.

    Watch this space.....


    Does the unit have a selector switch for voltage ?

    Is it a 60Hz unit in a 50Hz environment ?

    ( Looking for any detail that hints they shipped the wrong unit to you... )

    Some line interactive units in the past, were ferroresonant,
    which might mean they would not be happy if conditions
    were not just right for them. Those tended to run warm in
    any case, and they may have stopped making things like that.
    Line interactive, boosts the line voltage, if the line voltage
    is low. Check your line voltage to see if it falls within
    the acceptance band.

    Get the exact part number off the plate on the back,
    and run it through a Google for review comments.

    *******

    Getting two bad units in a row, hints at a systematic problem,
    not a random manufacturing failure. Those units should be
    100% tested (the unit should be energized long enough
    to do a self-test at the factory, they may also run the unit
    long enough to fully charge the battery, as part of test).

    *******

    NOTE: Some UPS ship with the battery cables DISCONNECTED.
    You are required to take the access panel or cover off
    the thing and verify it is connected. Disconnecting the
    battery, helps prevent reverse bias damage to the battery
    if it self-discharges too low.

    Visually inspect the unit for damage. If the UPS punctured
    the cardboard box (which is normal for transit of UPS),
    see if the corners have been crushed by the impact.

    See if the unit has a diagnostic LCD display, or a USB
    or RS232 port that has diagnostic capability. The computer
    inside it may have power, when other parts do not. The one
    with the flashing LEDs likely had the computer section powered.

    Paul
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From The Natural Philosopher@tnp@invalid.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Fri Jan 9 13:48:41 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 09/01/2026 13:38, David Wade wrote:
    On 09/01/2026 14:13, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 09/01/2026 12:30, David Wade wrote:
    On 09/01/2026 12:26, Davey wrote:
    On Fri, 9 Jan 2026 10:59:13 +0000
    Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:

    Davey wrote:

    I now have three non-functioning UPSs.
    I have yet to receive a response about the third. As for the first >>>>>> two, Eaton do not want them back, even to analyse the fault, which >>>>>> seems strange to me.

    Could you try them at work, or in a neighbour's house?


    I retired from work some years ago! I am now 75 years old. But I could >>>> try a neighbour's house, yes. At the moment, I am getting ready to make >>>> a video of what happens on attempted startup, at Eaton's request. They >>>> have also said that they do not give credit, but will continue this
    process until it works. I replied that, if it goes on much longer, I
    will invoke my option under the Consumer Rights Act for a refund for
    faulty goods, and that I will happily co-operate in sending any or all >>>> units back so they can find out what is wrong. They have expressed no
    interest in what is, to me, a basic troubleshooting process. My next
    trip to my local WEEE recycling centre will be loaded down with an
    excess of UPS units.

    Watch this space.....

    what on earth could be wrong with any ones house wiring to cause this?

    JUST possibly a high impedance socket...that cannot deliver current.


    So in that case, things plugged directly into the socket wouldn't work.

    Some might.

    But the more likely ting is that Eaton have a bunch of cheap chinesium
    crap and are using the customer to test them all.

    Since they are clearly not worth repairing.

    Send em to Big Clive!

    Dave


    Dave
    --
    "I guess a rattlesnake ain't risponsible fer bein' a rattlesnake, but ah
    puts mah heel on um jess the same if'n I catches him around mah chillun".


    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From The Natural Philosopher@tnp@invalid.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Fri Jan 9 13:52:16 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 09/01/2026 13:46, Paul wrote:
    Those units should be
    100% tested (the unit should be energized long enough
    to do a self-test at the factory, t

    In China? Hardly.

    I got a pair of brushless motors and controllers. The first one burst
    into flames the moment power was drawn.

    I got a full refund for both items. The other one works OK.

    I got 10 transistors from China. Every single one failed, My guess is
    that if even one person oin ten cant be arsed to get a refund its profitable
    --
    "I guess a rattlesnake ain't risponsible fer bein' a rattlesnake, but ah
    puts mah heel on um jess the same if'n I catches him around mah chillun".


    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Andy Burns@usenet@andyburns.uk to uk.d-i-y on Fri Jan 9 13:57:24 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    David Wade wrote:

    On 09/01/2026 14:03, Andy Burns wrote:
    David Wade wrote:

    what on earth could be wrong with any ones house wiring to cause this?

    Various possibilities, but if an electrician has done checks they've
    presumably been ruled-out (L/N reversed, high impedance earth, broken
    N in neighbouring property or street)

    How would any of these cause issues with a UPS.

    non-trivial voltage difference between N and E, fluctuating voltage

    It MUST not pass any
    current down the earth wire otherwise it would trip RCDs and fail a PAT test. If there was a neutral fault everything else wouldn't work.

    Its CE marked, and as continental mains sockets are reservable live/
    neutral interchange should also be a non-issue.
    UPSes monitor the mains carefully (where normal appliances don't) I've
    known several that got upset by the quality of mains put out by large site-wide generators ...


    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Davey@davey@example.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Fri Jan 9 15:59:12 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On Fri, 9 Jan 2026 13:30:57 +0100
    David Wade <dave@is.invalid> wrote:

    On 09/01/2026 12:26, Davey wrote:
    On Fri, 9 Jan 2026 10:59:13 +0000
    Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:

    Davey wrote:

    I now have three non-functioning UPSs.
    I have yet to receive a response about the third. As for the first
    two, Eaton do not want them back, even to analyse the fault, which
    seems strange to me.

    Could you try them at work, or in a neighbour's house?


    I retired from work some years ago! I am now 75 years old. But I
    could try a neighbour's house, yes. At the moment, I am getting
    ready to make a video of what happens on attempted startup, at
    Eaton's request. They have also said that they do not give credit,
    but will continue this process until it works. I replied that, if
    it goes on much longer, I will invoke my option under the Consumer
    Rights Act for a refund for faulty goods, and that I will happily co-operate in sending any or all units back so they can find out
    what is wrong. They have expressed no interest in what is, to me, a
    basic troubleshooting process. My next trip to my local WEEE
    recycling centre will be loaded down with an excess of UPS units.

    Watch this space.....

    what on earth could be wrong with any ones house wiring to cause this?

    Dave

    When the first unit failed, the only reference in the online manual
    that resembled the light flashing that I saw said that a flashing red
    light indicated a fault with the house wiring. I wanted to be sure that
    that was not the case.
    --
    Davey.

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Davey@davey@example.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Fri Jan 9 17:43:35 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On Fri, 9 Jan 2026 11:57:34 +0000
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
    On 09/01/2026 11:26, Davey wrote:
    They
    have also said that they do not give credit, but will continue this
    process until it works. I replied that, if it goes on much longer, I
    will invoke my option under the Consumer Rights Act for a refund for
    faulty goods, and that I will happily co-operate in sending any or
    all units back so they can find out what is wrong.

    Correct approach. Document everything.
    What is the status of a credit card or debit card purchase?
    You might be able to get the transaction reversed.


    Ah, there are some wrinkles here.
    When I first looked at the Eaton unit in November, Eaton were charging
    -u120 for it. As it was near Black Friday, I checked Amazon, and they
    were asking -u85 for it. So I went with them.
    Then, after it arrived and failed, I contacted Eaton to try to find out
    what the flashing light sequence meant, as it was not listed in the
    online manual. And this eventually resulted in the first RMA, and so on.
    Amazon know nothing about this, so being more than 30 days after the
    purchase from them might make returning one of the units for a refund difficult. I don't know. At least I have three to choose from!
    Strictly, Eaton don't owe me any money, Jeff Bezos does, and he can try
    to get it back from Eaton.
    Now, I just checked the 3rd unit, and it is indeed Made in China, which supports the theory that Eaton know they have bought a bad batch, and
    just keep on sending them out until one finally works. Hopefully.
    Very interesting. But I still do not have a working UPS.
    --
    Davey.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Paul@nospam@needed.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Fri Jan 9 12:54:00 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On Fri, 1/9/2026 8:52 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 09/01/2026 13:46, Paul wrote:
    Those units should be
    100% tested (the unit should be energized long enough
    to do a self-test at the factory, t

    In China? Hardly.

    I got a pair of brushless motors and controllers. The first one burst into flames the moment power was drawn.

    I got a full refund for both items. The other one works OK.

    I got 10 transistors from China. Every single one failed, My guess is that if even one person oin ten cant be arsed to get a refund its profitable



    The Eaton company is unlikely to have made this unit themselves.
    They went on a binge of buying other companies, which
    means the unit could be made just about anywhere.

    But not absolutely all units are made in China. A few other
    countries are involved as well.

    The dropout rate on units would be too high, if shipped untested.
    In an order of 100 UPS at the startup I worked at, 10% of the
    units failed, and those were purchased from "the lowest SKU",
    so those would be Happy Fun Ball UPS. They needed to keep the
    power up, for the 1 second glitches we used to get in the
    industrial park. We did not intend the UPS to run for two minutes
    or ten minutes, just ride through the glitches. I recommend to people,
    they buy from the next SKU up, where the fallout rate on first
    usage is lower.

    But the story on this unit, implies something is systematically wrong.
    Maybe all the batteries are knackered as received. Just guessing
    at the least reliable part. But not having the computer light a red led
    that something is wrong, it should be easier for a kit of parts
    to succeed at doing that bit.

    Paul
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Davey@davey@example.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Fri Jan 9 17:59:41 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On Fri, 9 Jan 2026 08:46:22 -0500
    Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

    Does the unit have a selector switch for voltage ?

    No.

    Is it a 60Hz unit in a 50Hz environment ?
    No.

    ( Looking for any detail that hints they shipped the wrong unit to
    you... )

    Some line interactive units in the past, were ferroresonant,
    which might mean they would not be happy if conditions
    were not just right for them. Those tended to run warm in
    any case, and they may have stopped making things like that.
    Line interactive, boosts the line voltage, if the line voltage
    is low. Check your line voltage to see if it falls within
    the acceptance band.

    Get the exact part number off the plate on the back,
    and run it through a Google for review comments.


    Nothing found.

    *******

    Getting two bad units in a row, hints at a systematic problem,
    not a random manufacturing failure. Those units should be
    100% tested (the unit should be energized long enough
    to do a self-test at the factory, they may also run the unit
    long enough to fully charge the battery, as part of test).

    *******

    NOTE: Some UPS ship with the battery cables DISCONNECTED.
    You are required to take the access panel or cover off
    the thing and verify it is connected. Disconnecting the
    battery, helps prevent reverse bias damage to the battery
    if it self-discharges too low.

    These have all been already connected.

    Visually inspect the unit for damage. If the UPS punctured
    the cardboard box (which is normal for transit of UPS),
    see if the corners have been crushed by the impact.

    No damage on any of them.

    See if the unit has a diagnostic LCD display, or a USB
    or RS232 port that has diagnostic capability. The computer
    inside it may have power, when other parts do not. The one
    with the flashing LEDs likely had the computer section powered.

    Paul

    No LCD. The lights are the only information available. There is a USB
    port, but it does nothing without the unit operating. At least, it
    didn't when I checked the first one. I might try again tomorrow, for
    the heck of it.
    Every time I boot my PC, it shows the info. box where it should
    display the USB's information, so the PC is ready. All three units
    have had exactly the same flashing LED display.

    I am more and more convinced that they know there is a bad batch out
    there, and are happy to keep sending me new units until one finally
    works. I have a growing pile of WEEE fodder.
    --
    Davey.

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Ian@${send-direct-email-to-news1021-at-jusme-dot-com-if-you-must}@jusme.com to uk.d-i-y on Fri Jan 9 18:04:21 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 2026-01-09, Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:

    [snip tale of woe...]

    I now would like a recommendation for a different supplier to try.

    What we do...

    Get a refurbed APC SmartUPS from ups-trader on ebay
    (https://www.ebay.co.uk/str/upstrader). One of the older
    models with a proper serial port for management.
    (Just a satisfied customer :)

    Accept that the battery is a consumable, and will need replacing
    every 2-3 years, again from ups-trader, not APC! Just get the
    cells and build your own pack if you want to be cheap, after the
    second replacement, as you'll have the bits to hand. You can swap
    the battery without an outage (if you place the UPS somewhere
    accessible...).

    Monitor it with apcupsd, not the APC PowerChute shitware.

    Ensure a battery test is done every 1-2 weeks so you know when
    it's buggered, rather than finding out when the lights go out.

    We have 5 of them keeping the servers, PCs, AV, security and lighting
    going here. Never had an outage caused by the UPS, and they have
    saved our ass many times. Just need to get a proper genny now,
    for when things get really bad...
    --
    Ian

    "Tamahome!!!" - "Miaka!!!"
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From The Natural Philosopher@tnp@invalid.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Fri Jan 9 18:39:48 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 09/01/2026 17:43, Davey wrote:
    Now, I just checked the 3rd unit, and it is indeed Made in China, which supports the theory that Eaton know they have bought a bad batch, and
    just keep on sending them out until one finally works. Hopefully.

    Very interesting. But I still do not have a working UPS.

    --
    Very frustrating. When dealing with Chinesium crap simply get yer money
    back and try somewhere else is my recommendation. Make sure people lose
    money on it
    --
    rCLA leader is best When people barely know he exists. Of a good leader,
    who talks little,When his work is done, his aim fulfilled,They will say,
    rCLWe did this ourselves.rCY

    rCo Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Davey@davey@example.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Fri Jan 9 21:41:04 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On Fri, 9 Jan 2026 18:04:21 -0000 (UTC)
    Ian
    <${send-direct-email-to-news1021-at-jusme-dot-com-if-you-must}@jusme.com> wrote:

    On 2026-01-09, Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:

    [snip tale of woe...]

    I now would like a recommendation for a different supplier to try.


    What we do...

    Get a refurbed APC SmartUPS from ups-trader on ebay
    (https://www.ebay.co.uk/str/upstrader). One of the older
    models with a proper serial port for management.
    (Just a satisfied customer :)

    Accept that the battery is a consumable, and will need replacing
    every 2-3 years, again from ups-trader, not APC! Just get the
    cells and build your own pack if you want to be cheap, after the
    second replacement, as you'll have the bits to hand. You can swap
    the battery without an outage (if you place the UPS somewhere
    accessible...).

    Monitor it with apcupsd, not the APC PowerChute shitware.

    Ensure a battery test is done every 1-2 weeks so you know when
    it's buggered, rather than finding out when the lights go out.

    We have 5 of them keeping the servers, PCs, AV, security and lighting
    going here. Never had an outage caused by the UPS, and they have
    saved our ass many times. Just need to get a proper genny now,
    for when things get really bad...

    Thanks, I will keep that handy.
    --
    Davey.

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Bob Eager@news0009@eager.cx to uk.d-i-y on Fri Jan 9 22:00:32 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On Fri, 09 Jan 2026 21:41:04 +0000, Davey wrote:

    On Fri, 9 Jan 2026 18:04:21 -0000 (UTC)
    Ian
    <${send-direct-email-to-news1021-at-jusme-dot-com-if-you-must}
    @jusme.com>
    wrote:

    On 2026-01-09, Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:

    [snip tale of woe...]

    I now would like a recommendation for a different supplier to try.


    What we do...

    Get a refurbed APC SmartUPS from ups-trader on ebay
    (https://www.ebay.co.uk/str/upstrader). One of the older models with
    a proper serial port for management.
    (Just a satisfied customer :)

    Accept that the battery is a consumable, and will need replacing
    every 2-3 years, again from ups-trader, not APC! Just get the cells
    and build your own pack if you want to be cheap, after the second
    replacement, as you'll have the bits to hand. You can swap the
    battery without an outage (if you place the UPS somewhere
    accessible...).

    Monitor it with apcupsd, not the APC PowerChute shitware.

    Ensure a battery test is done every 1-2 weeks so you know when it's
    buggered, rather than finding out when the lights go out.

    We have 5 of them keeping the servers, PCs, AV, security and lighting
    going here. Never had an outage caused by the UPS, and they have saved
    our ass many times. Just need to get a proper genny now,
    for when things get really bad...

    Thanks, I will keep that handy.

    I should add that I purchased a new APC unit probably over 20 years ago
    and it is still going strong. I also got two secondhand ones not long
    after, and they are still running. Batteries last 3-5 years (shorter life
    for the one in the rack). Two are 1500kVA units and the other (rack mount)
    is 700kVA.

    I use Network UPS Tools to monitor them all, and it works well.

    - we get quite a lot of sags and surges, but they are Smart-UPS models and
    handle that well. I did get the units partly for overvoltage
    protection.
    - I have them set up to handle three groups of systems, and they do a
    group shutdown in each case when the battery goes low. I have never had
    to do this in anger, but have tested it thoroughly.
    - I run a battery test once a week. I have a script that then waits for
    5 minutes and reports the battery percentage. Given the shortness of
    the test, the battery ought to be back at 100% after that time. If it
    isn't, I keep a very close eye on it.
    - I get batteries from MDS Battery (https://www.mdsbattery.co.uk/) who
    sell CSB batteries, which I understand APC rebadge and sell at a higher
    price.
    --
    My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
    wish to copy them they can pay me -u1 a message.
    Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
    *lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Davey@davey@example.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Sat Jan 10 00:14:12 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 9 Jan 2026 22:00:32 GMT
    Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> wrote:

    On Fri, 09 Jan 2026 21:41:04 +0000, Davey wrote:

    On Fri, 9 Jan 2026 18:04:21 -0000 (UTC)
    Ian
    <${send-direct-email-to-news1021-at-jusme-dot-com-if-you-must}
    @jusme.com>
    wrote:

    On 2026-01-09, Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:

    [snip tale of woe...]

    I now would like a recommendation for a different supplier to
    try.

    What we do...

    Get a refurbed APC SmartUPS from ups-trader on ebay
    (https://www.ebay.co.uk/str/upstrader). One of the older models
    with a proper serial port for management.
    (Just a satisfied customer :)

    Accept that the battery is a consumable, and will need replacing
    every 2-3 years, again from ups-trader, not APC! Just get the
    cells and build your own pack if you want to be cheap, after the
    second replacement, as you'll have the bits to hand. You can swap
    the battery without an outage (if you place the UPS somewhere
    accessible...).

    Monitor it with apcupsd, not the APC PowerChute shitware.

    Ensure a battery test is done every 1-2 weeks so you know when
    it's buggered, rather than finding out when the lights go out.

    We have 5 of them keeping the servers, PCs, AV, security and
    lighting going here. Never had an outage caused by the UPS, and
    they have saved our ass many times. Just need to get a proper
    genny now, for when things get really bad...

    Thanks, I will keep that handy.

    I should add that I purchased a new APC unit probably over 20 years
    ago and it is still going strong. I also got two secondhand ones not
    long after, and they are still running. Batteries last 3-5 years
    (shorter life for the one in the rack). Two are 1500kVA units and the
    other (rack mount) is 700kVA.

    I use Network UPS Tools to monitor them all, and it works well.

    - we get quite a lot of sags and surges, but they are Smart-UPS
    models and handle that well. I did get the units partly for
    overvoltage protection.
    - I have them set up to handle three groups of systems, and they do a
    group shutdown in each case when the battery goes low. I have never
    had to do this in anger, but have tested it thoroughly.
    - I run a battery test once a week. I have a script that then waits
    for 5 minutes and reports the battery percentage. Given the shortness
    of the test, the battery ought to be back at 100% after that time. If
    it isn't, I keep a very close eye on it.
    - I get batteries from MDS Battery (https://www.mdsbattery.co.uk/) who
    sell CSB batteries, which I understand APC rebadge and sell at a
    higher price.




    Thanks. Also parked in a file for reference.
    --
    Davey.

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Paul@nospam@needed.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Fri Jan 9 22:43:38 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On Fri, 1/9/2026 10:59 AM, Davey wrote:
    On Fri, 9 Jan 2026 13:30:57 +0100
    David Wade <dave@is.invalid> wrote:

    On 09/01/2026 12:26, Davey wrote:
    On Fri, 9 Jan 2026 10:59:13 +0000
    Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:

    Davey wrote:

    I now have three non-functioning UPSs.
    I have yet to receive a response about the third. As for the first
    two, Eaton do not want them back, even to analyse the fault, which
    seems strange to me.

    Could you try them at work, or in a neighbour's house?


    I retired from work some years ago! I am now 75 years old. But I
    could try a neighbour's house, yes. At the moment, I am getting
    ready to make a video of what happens on attempted startup, at
    Eaton's request. They have also said that they do not give credit,
    but will continue this process until it works. I replied that, if
    it goes on much longer, I will invoke my option under the Consumer
    Rights Act for a refund for faulty goods, and that I will happily
    co-operate in sending any or all units back so they can find out
    what is wrong. They have expressed no interest in what is, to me, a
    basic troubleshooting process. My next trip to my local WEEE
    recycling centre will be loaded down with an excess of UPS units.

    Watch this space.....

    what on earth could be wrong with any ones house wiring to cause this?

    Dave

    When the first unit failed, the only reference in the online manual
    that resembled the light flashing that I saw said that a flashing red
    light indicated a fault with the house wiring. I wanted to be sure that
    that was not the case.


    Even outlet testers aren't infallible.

    "What's inside a neon socket tester?"
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03y12S1A464

    Paul
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Davey@davey@example.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Sat Jan 10 09:23:25 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On Fri, 9 Jan 2026 22:43:38 -0500
    Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

    On Fri, 1/9/2026 10:59 AM, Davey wrote:
    On Fri, 9 Jan 2026 13:30:57 +0100
    David Wade <dave@is.invalid> wrote:

    On 09/01/2026 12:26, Davey wrote:
    On Fri, 9 Jan 2026 10:59:13 +0000
    Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:

    Davey wrote:

    I now have three non-functioning UPSs.
    I have yet to receive a response about the third. As for the
    first two, Eaton do not want them back, even to analyse the
    fault, which seems strange to me.

    Could you try them at work, or in a neighbour's house?


    I retired from work some years ago! I am now 75 years old. But I
    could try a neighbour's house, yes. At the moment, I am getting
    ready to make a video of what happens on attempted startup, at
    Eaton's request. They have also said that they do not give credit,
    but will continue this process until it works. I replied that, if
    it goes on much longer, I will invoke my option under the Consumer
    Rights Act for a refund for faulty goods, and that I will happily
    co-operate in sending any or all units back so they can find out
    what is wrong. They have expressed no interest in what is, to me,
    a basic troubleshooting process. My next trip to my local WEEE
    recycling centre will be loaded down with an excess of UPS units.

    Watch this space.....

    what on earth could be wrong with any ones house wiring to cause
    this?

    Dave

    When the first unit failed, the only reference in the online manual
    that resembled the light flashing that I saw said that a flashing
    red light indicated a fault with the house wiring. I wanted to be
    sure that that was not the case.


    Even outlet testers aren't infallible.

    "What's inside a neon socket tester?"
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03y12S1A464

    Paul


    Which is exactly why I engaged a licensed electrician.
    --
    Davey.

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Davey@davey@example.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Sat Jan 10 10:33:54 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On Fri, 9 Jan 2026 18:39:48 +0000
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    On 09/01/2026 17:43, Davey wrote:
    Now, I just checked the 3rd unit, and it is indeed Made in China,
    which supports the theory that Eaton know they have bought a bad
    batch, and just keep on sending them out until one finally works. Hopefully.

    Very interesting. But I still do not have a working UPS.

    --
    Very frustrating. When dealing with Chinesium crap simply get yer
    money back and try somewhere else is my recommendation. Make sure
    people lose money on it


    OK. I have processed a Return with Amazon, and it has been accepted. It
    will go using Royal Mail. But I know that Royal Mail does not allow
    batteries, so what happens if I say, truthfully, that there are
    batteries inside? The Returns process has no option to ask this
    question.
    --
    Davey.

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Andy Burns@usenet@andyburns.uk to uk.d-i-y on Sat Jan 10 10:36:39 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    Ian wrote:

    Davey wrote:

    I now would like a recommendation for a different supplier to try.

    Get a refurbed APC SmartUPS from ups-trader on ebay
    (https://www.ebay.co.uk/str/upstrader). One of the older
    models with a proper serial port for management.
    (Just a satisfied customer :)

    Accept that the battery is a consumable, and will need replacing
    every 2-3 years

    We have 5 of them
    I have three of them (2x SU2200 that take four 19Ah batteries each and
    1x SU1400 which takes two of the same batteries) only one is in use.
    They're cold-war engineering no SMD components or custom chips AFAIR,
    built to withstand anything short of a direct nuclear strike ...

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Davey@davey@example.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Sat Jan 10 10:49:07 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On Sat, 10 Jan 2026 10:36:39 +0000
    Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:

    Ian wrote:

    Davey wrote:

    I now would like a recommendation for a different supplier to try.


    Get a refurbed APC SmartUPS from ups-trader on ebay
    (https://www.ebay.co.uk/str/upstrader). One of the older
    models with a proper serial port for management.
    (Just a satisfied customer :)

    Accept that the battery is a consumable, and will need replacing
    every 2-3 years

    We have 5 of them
    I have three of them (2x SU2200 that take four 19Ah batteries each
    and 1x SU1400 which takes two of the same batteries) only one is in
    use. They're cold-war engineering no SMD components or custom chips
    AFAIR, built to withstand anything short of a direct nuclear strike
    ...


    another added to the list, thanks.
    --
    Davey.

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From SH@i.love@spam.com to uk.d-i-y on Sat Jan 10 12:55:08 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    Thanks, I will keep that handy.

    I should add that I purchased a new APC unit probably over 20 years ago
    and it is still going strong. I also got two secondhand ones not long
    after, and they are still running. Batteries last 3-5 years (shorter life
    for the one in the rack). Two are 1500kVA units and the other (rack mount)
    is 700kVA.

    I use Network UPS Tools to monitor them all, and it works well

    Good god! that is some serious UPS to give you a total capacity of 3700
    kVA, so assuming a PF of 1.0, at 220 V, thats a max current of 16 kA.

    Given that a domestic electricity supply is 100 A single phase giving 22
    kW max load, you must have a 11 kV feed and a transformer on site to
    give you that 3700 kW which at 220 V is a current demand of at least 17 kA.....

    I hope you have bought shares in National Grid.....
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Bob Eager@news0009@eager.cx to uk.d-i-y on Sat Jan 10 13:02:31 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On Sat, 10 Jan 2026 12:55:08 +0000, SH wrote:

    Thanks, I will keep that handy.

    I should add that I purchased a new APC unit probably over 20 years ago
    and it is still going strong. I also got two secondhand ones not long
    after, and they are still running. Batteries last 3-5 years (shorter
    life for the one in the rack). Two are 1500kVA units and the other
    (rack mount)
    is 700kVA.

    I use Network UPS Tools to monitor them all, and it works well

    Good god! that is some serious UPS to give you a total capacity of 3700
    kVA, so assuming a PF of 1.0, at 220 V, thats a max current of 16 kA.

    Given that a domestic electricity supply is 100 A single phase giving 22
    kW max load, you must have a 11 kV feed and a transformer on site to
    give you that 3700 kW which at 220 V is a current demand of at least 17 kA.....

    I hope you have bought shares in National Grid.....

    Oops.

    s/kVA/VA/g
    --
    My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
    wish to copy them they can pay me -u1 a message.
    Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
    *lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Tim+@timdownieuk@yahoo.co.youkay to uk.d-i-y on Sat Jan 10 13:36:54 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:
    On Fri, 9 Jan 2026 18:39:48 +0000
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    On 09/01/2026 17:43, Davey wrote:
    Now, I just checked the 3rd unit, and it is indeed Made in China,
    which supports the theory that Eaton know they have bought a bad
    batch, and just keep on sending them out until one finally works.
    Hopefully.

    Very interesting. But I still do not have a working UPS.

    --
    Very frustrating. When dealing with Chinesium crap simply get yer
    money back and try somewhere else is my recommendation. Make sure
    people lose money on it


    OK. I have processed a Return with Amazon, and it has been accepted. It
    will go using Royal Mail. But I know that Royal Mail does not allow batteries, so what happens if I say, truthfully, that there are
    batteries inside? The Returns process has no option to ask this
    question.


    I *think* as long as theyrCOre built in or connected (eg batteries in phones
    or UPS say) and if theyrCOre lead acid (but of an unspillable type) you
    should be okay.

    ThatrCOs my reading of the rules anyway.

    https://www.postoffice.co.uk/mail/what-can-i-send

    Tim
    --
    Please don't feed the trolls
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Davey@davey@example.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Sat Jan 10 15:32:55 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 10 Jan 2026 13:36:54 GMT
    Tim+ <timdownieuk@yahoo.co.youkay> wrote:
    Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:
    On Fri, 9 Jan 2026 18:39:48 +0000
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    On 09/01/2026 17:43, Davey wrote:
    Now, I just checked the 3rd unit, and it is indeed Made in China,
    which supports the theory that Eaton know they have bought a bad
    batch, and just keep on sending them out until one finally works.
    Hopefully.

    Very interesting. But I still do not have a working UPS.

    --
    Very frustrating. When dealing with Chinesium crap simply get yer
    money back and try somewhere else is my recommendation. Make sure
    people lose money on it


    OK. I have processed a Return with Amazon, and it has been
    accepted. It will go using Royal Mail. But I know that Royal Mail
    does not allow batteries, so what happens if I say, truthfully,
    that there are batteries inside? The Returns process has no option
    to ask this question.


    I *think* as long as theyrCOre built in or connected (eg batteries in
    phones or UPS say) and if theyrCOre lead acid (but of an unspillable
    type) you should be okay.

    ThatrCOs my reading of the rules anyway.

    https://www.postoffice.co.uk/mail/what-can-i-send

    Tim



    Amazon reconsidered, and then said that they would have it returned by
    Hermes. I pointed out that Hermes is now called Evri, and soon after,
    they sent me an Evri shipping label. The unit will be dropped of at the
    local Evri agent on Monday.
    So I should get my money back from Amazon for the first unit, and I can continue on with Eaton, in case I get a working unit soon. They don't
    care what happens to the other two, I think they know what's wrong with
    them, and they are not worth fixing.
    --
    Davey.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Tim+@timdownieuk@yahoo.co.youkay to uk.d-i-y on Sat Jan 10 17:44:35 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:
    On 10 Jan 2026 13:36:54 GMT
    Tim+ <timdownieuk@yahoo.co.youkay> wrote:

    Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:
    On Fri, 9 Jan 2026 18:39:48 +0000
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    On 09/01/2026 17:43, Davey wrote:
    Now, I just checked the 3rd unit, and it is indeed Made in China,
    which supports the theory that Eaton know they have bought a bad
    batch, and just keep on sending them out until one finally works.
    Hopefully.

    Very interesting. But I still do not have a working UPS.

    --
    Very frustrating. When dealing with Chinesium crap simply get yer
    money back and try somewhere else is my recommendation. Make sure
    people lose money on it


    OK. I have processed a Return with Amazon, and it has been
    accepted. It will go using Royal Mail. But I know that Royal Mail
    does not allow batteries, so what happens if I say, truthfully,
    that there are batteries inside? The Returns process has no option
    to ask this question.


    I *think* as long as theyrCOre built in or connected (eg batteries in
    phones or UPS say) and if theyrCOre lead acid (but of an unspillable
    type) you should be okay.

    ThatrCOs my reading of the rules anyway.

    https://www.postoffice.co.uk/mail/what-can-i-send

    Tim




    Amazon reconsidered, and then said that they would have it returned by Hermes. I pointed out that Hermes is now called Evri, and soon after,
    they sent me an Evri shipping label. The unit will be dropped of at the
    local Evri agent on Monday.

    So I should get my money back from Amazon for the first unit, and I can continue on with Eaton, in case I get a working unit soon. They don't
    care what happens to the other two, I think they know what's wrong with
    them, and they are not worth fixing.

    --
    Davey.



    Get in touch with Big Clive. Sounds like something right up his street. It would make a good rCLfix it rCL video.

    bigclive1@gmail.com

    Tim
    --
    Please don't feed the trolls
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Davey@davey@example.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Sat Jan 10 18:09:35 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 10 Jan 2026 17:44:35 GMT
    Tim+ <timdownieuk@yahoo.co.youkay> wrote:
    Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:
    On 10 Jan 2026 13:36:54 GMT
    Tim+ <timdownieuk@yahoo.co.youkay> wrote:

    Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:
    On Fri, 9 Jan 2026 18:39:48 +0000
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    On 09/01/2026 17:43, Davey wrote:
    Now, I just checked the 3rd unit, and it is indeed Made in
    China, which supports the theory that Eaton know they have
    bought a bad batch, and just keep on sending them out until one
    finally works. Hopefully.

    Very interesting. But I still do not have a working UPS.

    --
    Very frustrating. When dealing with Chinesium crap simply get yer
    money back and try somewhere else is my recommendation. Make sure
    people lose money on it


    OK. I have processed a Return with Amazon, and it has been
    accepted. It will go using Royal Mail. But I know that Royal Mail
    does not allow batteries, so what happens if I say, truthfully,
    that there are batteries inside? The Returns process has no option
    to ask this question.


    I *think* as long as theyrCOre built in or connected (eg batteries in
    phones or UPS say) and if theyrCOre lead acid (but of an unspillable
    type) you should be okay.

    ThatrCOs my reading of the rules anyway.

    https://www.postoffice.co.uk/mail/what-can-i-send

    Tim




    Amazon reconsidered, and then said that they would have it returned
    by Hermes. I pointed out that Hermes is now called Evri, and soon
    after, they sent me an Evri shipping label. The unit will be
    dropped of at the local Evri agent on Monday.

    So I should get my money back from Amazon for the first unit, and I
    can continue on with Eaton, in case I get a working unit soon. They
    don't care what happens to the other two, I think they know what's
    wrong with them, and they are not worth fixing.

    --
    Davey.



    Get in touch with Big Clive. Sounds like something right up his
    street. It would make a good rCLfix it rCL video.

    bigclive1@gmail.com

    Tim

    I tried to send Big Clive a message, but I get a reply that the SSl/TLS certificate is faulty.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Andy Burns@usenet@andyburns.uk to uk.d-i-y on Sat Jan 10 18:30:16 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    Davey wrote:

    I tried to send Big Clive a message, but I get a reply that the SSl/TLS certificate is faulty.

    Can an individual gmail user supply their own certificate? I wouldn't
    expect so ...

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Alan J. Wylie@alan@wylie.me.uk to uk.d-i-y on Sat Jan 10 19:02:57 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    Tim+ <timdownieuk@yahoo.co.youkay> writes:

    Get in touch with Big Clive. Sounds like something right up his street. It would make a good rCLfix it rCL video.

    bigclive1@gmail.com

    I bought an AAA/AA/C/D/PP3 NiMH/NiCD charger years ago, then recently
    saw a recall for it[1]. I tried to contact Big Clive on that address in
    case he wanted to investigate the reason (supposedly inadequately
    earthed, two pin mains connector), but have never received a reply.

    [1] https://www.gov.uk/product-safety-alerts-reports-recalls/product-safety-report-ebl-universal-charger-via-amazon-2505-0203
    --
    Alan J. Wylie https://www.wylie.me.uk/ mailto:<alan@wylie.me.uk>
    Dance like no-one's watching. / Encrypt like everyone is.
    Security is inversely proportional to convenience
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Andy Burns@usenet@andyburns.uk to uk.d-i-y on Sat Jan 10 19:11:19 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    "Alan J. Wylie" wrote:

    Tim+ writes:

    bigclive1@gmail.com

    I tried to contact Big Clive on that address [...] but have never received a reply.
    He replied to me about an ioniser about 13 years ago, but his youtube
    channel has really blown-up since then ...


    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Davey@davey@example.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Sat Jan 10 21:07:16 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On Sat, 10 Jan 2026 18:30:16 +0000
    Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:

    Davey wrote:

    I tried to send Big Clive a message, but I get a reply that the
    SSl/TLS certificate is faulty.

    Can an individual gmail user supply their own certificate? I
    wouldn't expect so ...


    That is way beyond my pay grade. If I try again, I'll copy and post the
    exact message. or I might just forget it.
    --
    Davey.

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Sam Plusnet@not@home.com to uk.d-i-y on Sun Jan 11 01:50:15 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 10/01/2026 19:11, Andy Burns wrote:
    "Alan J. Wylie" wrote:

    Tim+ writes:

    bigclive1@gmail.com

    -aI tried to contact Big Clive on that address [...] but have never
    received a reply.
    He replied to me about an ioniser about 13 years ago, but his youtube channel has really blown-up since then ...

    Not all the items he features explode/catch fire.
    --
    Sam Plusnet
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Paul@nospam@needed.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Sat Jan 10 23:46:57 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On Sat, 1/10/2026 5:33 AM, Davey wrote:
    On Fri, 9 Jan 2026 18:39:48 +0000
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    On 09/01/2026 17:43, Davey wrote:
    Now, I just checked the 3rd unit, and it is indeed Made in China,
    which supports the theory that Eaton know they have bought a bad
    batch, and just keep on sending them out until one finally works.
    Hopefully.

    Very interesting. But I still do not have a working UPS.

    --
    Very frustrating. When dealing with Chinesium crap simply get yer
    money back and try somewhere else is my recommendation. Make sure
    people lose money on it


    OK. I have processed a Return with Amazon, and it has been accepted. It
    will go using Royal Mail. But I know that Royal Mail does not allow batteries, so what happens if I say, truthfully, that there are
    batteries inside? The Returns process has no option to ask this
    question.


    The battery would be SLA (sealed lead acid), and not a Lithium
    flammable type. For cargo planes, there can be rules about Lithium.
    For a Post Office, their main concern other than that, is
    with dimensions or weight of the item. A big UPS would likely
    exceed any of their available options. Even some couriers can object
    to carriage of a UPS, just from the weight of the thing.

    For the fossil record, you should include the model number of
    this product in a post, in order that future generations can benefit
    from the discussion thread. We don't even know what SKU bracket
    this thing is from, cheapest (10% failure rate) level, mid-range
    level, or "business class extra expense" ones. A double-conversion
    unit with a fan that runs all the time, is the type popular
    in Server rooms (the switchover time on those is 0 milliseconds,
    versus the typical 2 cycle switching time of the SPS Standby Power Supply
    type popular for cheap ones). My last employer had one like that (double conversion) for our little server and the tape autoloader
    (that was so our single IT guy could go home at night to his wife and four kids).

    If you don't want to include the model number (written on the bill),
    then just tell us the price before tax. That will establish its
    credentials as a piece of crap.

    Paul
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Paul@nospam@needed.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Sat Jan 10 23:50:53 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On Fri, 1/9/2026 8:57 AM, Andy Burns wrote:
    David Wade wrote:

    On 09/01/2026 14:03, Andy Burns wrote:
    David Wade wrote:

    what on earth could be wrong with any ones house wiring to cause this?

    Various possibilities, but if an electrician has done checks they've presumably been ruled-out (L/N reversed, high impedance earth, broken N in neighbouring property or street)

    How would any of these cause issues with a UPS.

    non-trivial voltage difference between N and E, fluctuating voltage

    It MUST not pass any current down the earth wire otherwise it would trip RCDs and fail a PAT test. If there was a neutral fault everything else wouldn't work.

    Its CE marked, and as continental mains sockets are reservable live/ neutral interchange should also be a non-issue.
    UPSes monitor the mains carefully (where normal appliances don't) I've known several that got upset by the quality of mains put out by large site-wide generators ...


    The computer in a modern UPS (even if it only has a flashing red LED for status),
    can have all sorts of firmware for monitoring "power quality".

    If it does have such a feature, you'd want to check whatever software
    is offered with it, to see if any analysis it is doing, is printed
    out in the Application.

    Paul



    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Davey@davey@example.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Sun Jan 11 08:45:38 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On Sat, 10 Jan 2026 23:50:53 -0500
    Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

    On Fri, 1/9/2026 8:57 AM, Andy Burns wrote:
    David Wade wrote:

    On 09/01/2026 14:03, Andy Burns wrote:
    David Wade wrote:

    what on earth could be wrong with any ones house wiring to cause
    this?

    Various possibilities, but if an electrician has done checks
    they've presumably been ruled-out (L/N reversed, high impedance
    earth, broken N in neighbouring property or street)

    How would any of these cause issues with a UPS.

    non-trivial voltage difference between N and E, fluctuating voltage

    It MUST not pass any current down the earth wire otherwise it
    would trip RCDs and fail a PAT test. If there was a neutral fault
    everything else wouldn't work.

    Its CE marked, and as continental mains sockets are reservable
    live/ neutral interchange should also be a non-issue.
    UPSes monitor the mains carefully (where normal appliances don't)
    I've known several that got upset by the quality of mains put out
    by large site-wide generators ...

    The computer in a modern UPS (even if it only has a flashing red LED
    for status), can have all sorts of firmware for monitoring "power
    quality".

    If it does have such a feature, you'd want to check whatever software
    is offered with it, to see if any analysis it is doing, is printed
    out in the Application.

    Paul


    The software is installed on my PC, it wants to talk, but never gets
    the chance to establish communication.
    --
    Davey.

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Davey@davey@example.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Sun Jan 11 09:22:57 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On Sat, 10 Jan 2026 23:46:57 -0500
    Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
    On Sat, 1/10/2026 5:33 AM, Davey wrote:
    On Fri, 9 Jan 2026 18:39:48 +0000
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    On 09/01/2026 17:43, Davey wrote:
    Now, I just checked the 3rd unit, and it is indeed Made in China,
    which supports the theory that Eaton know they have bought a bad
    batch, and just keep on sending them out until one finally works.
    Hopefully.

    Very interesting. But I still do not have a working UPS.

    --
    Very frustrating. When dealing with Chinesium crap simply get yer
    money back and try somewhere else is my recommendation. Make sure
    people lose money on it


    OK. I have processed a Return with Amazon, and it has been
    accepted. It will go using Royal Mail. But I know that Royal Mail
    does not allow batteries, so what happens if I say, truthfully,
    that there are batteries inside? The Returns process has no option
    to ask this question.


    The battery would be SLA (sealed lead acid), and not a Lithium
    flammable type. For cargo planes, there can be rules about Lithium.
    For a Post Office, their main concern other than that, is
    with dimensions or weight of the item. A big UPS would likely
    exceed any of their available options. Even some couriers can object
    to carriage of a UPS, just from the weight of the thing.

    For the fossil record, you should include the model number of
    this product in a post, in order that future generations can benefit
    from the discussion thread. We don't even know what SKU bracket
    this thing is from, cheapest (10% failure rate) level, mid-range
    level, or "business class extra expense" ones. A double-conversion
    unit with a fan that runs all the time, is the type popular
    in Server rooms (the switchover time on those is 0 milliseconds,
    versus the typical 2 cycle switching time of the SPS Standby Power
    Supply type popular for cheap ones). My last employer had one like
    that (double conversion) for our little server and the tape autoloader
    (that was so our single IT guy could go home at night to his wife and
    four kids).

    If you don't want to include the model number (written on the bill),
    then just tell us the price before tax. That will establish its
    credentials as a piece of crap.

    Paul
    The unit is an Eaton 3S 700B UPS. I mentioned yesterday that the cost
    was: list -u120 from Eaton, -u85 from Amazon as a Black Friday deal. Which means that Eaton must still have made a profit, so it was 'worth' maybe
    -u70 to them. And as I said, Made in China, but that applies to just
    about anything electronical nowadays.
    I agree that the battery is probably SLA, the EVRI shipping label has a separate part that says "DO NOT SHIP BY AIR".
    The unit is indeed heavy, and loaded to the end with the battery,
    --
    Davey.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From The Natural Philosopher@tnp@invalid.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Sun Jan 11 10:48:19 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 10/01/2026 18:09, Davey wrote:
    Get in touch with Big Clive. Sounds like something right up his
    street. It would make a good rCLfix it rCL video.

    bigclive1@gmail.com

    Tim

    I tried to send Big Clive a message, but I get a reply that the SSl/TLS certificate is faulty.

    That may be gmail being picky about your mail sender. If you have e.g. a
    gmail account try that.
    --
    The lifetime of any political organisation is about three years before
    its been subverted by the people it tried to warn you about.

    Anon.

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Davey@davey@example.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Sun Jan 11 12:23:47 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On Sun, 11 Jan 2026 10:48:19 +0000
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
    On 10/01/2026 18:09, Davey wrote:
    Get in touch with Big Clive. Sounds like something right up his
    street. It would make a good rCLfix it rCL video.

    bigclive1@gmail.com

    Tim

    I tried to send Big Clive a message, but I get a reply that the
    SSl/TLS certificate is faulty.

    That may be gmail being picky about your mail sender. If you have
    e.g. a gmail account try that.


    It was sent from my gmail account. I have deleted it anyway.
    --
    Davey.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From The Natural Philosopher@tnp@invalid.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Sun Jan 11 12:29:50 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 11/01/2026 12:23, Davey wrote:
    On Sun, 11 Jan 2026 10:48:19 +0000
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    On 10/01/2026 18:09, Davey wrote:
    Get in touch with Big Clive. Sounds like something right up his
    street. It would make a good rCLfix it rCL video.

    bigclive1@gmail.com

    Tim

    I tried to send Big Clive a message, but I get a reply that the
    SSl/TLS certificate is faulty.

    That may be gmail being picky about your mail sender. If you have
    e.g. a gmail account try that.




    It was sent from my gmail account. I have deleted it anyway.

    Ah well, that may be a problem at Clive's end..
    --
    No Apple devices were knowingly used in the preparation of this post.

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Davey@davey@example.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Sun Jan 11 12:32:54 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On Sun, 11 Jan 2026 12:29:50 +0000
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
    On 11/01/2026 12:23, Davey wrote:
    On Sun, 11 Jan 2026 10:48:19 +0000
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    On 10/01/2026 18:09, Davey wrote:
    Get in touch with Big Clive. Sounds like something right up his
    street. It would make a good rCLfix it rCL video.

    bigclive1@gmail.com

    Tim

    I tried to send Big Clive a message, but I get a reply that the
    SSl/TLS certificate is faulty.

    That may be gmail being picky about your mail sender. If you have
    e.g. a gmail account try that.




    It was sent from my gmail account. I have deleted it anyway.

    Ah well, that may be a problem at Clive's end..

    I have never seen that fault before anywhere else, so I couldn't be
    bothered to dig further.
    --
    Davey,
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From The Natural Philosopher@tnp@invalid.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Sun Jan 11 12:49:05 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 11/01/2026 12:32, Davey wrote:
    On Sun, 11 Jan 2026 12:29:50 +0000
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    On 11/01/2026 12:23, Davey wrote:
    On Sun, 11 Jan 2026 10:48:19 +0000
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    On 10/01/2026 18:09, Davey wrote:
    Get in touch with Big Clive. Sounds like something right up his
    street. It would make a good rCLfix it rCL video.

    bigclive1@gmail.com

    Tim

    I tried to send Big Clive a message, but I get a reply that the
    SSl/TLS certificate is faulty.

    That may be gmail being picky about your mail sender. If you have
    e.g. a gmail account try that.




    It was sent from my gmail account. I have deleted it anyway.

    Ah well, that may be a problem at Clive's end..


    I have never seen that fault before anywhere else, so I couldn't be
    bothered to dig further.

    Oh I have...but never from a mail system. Only from a browser.

    It usually means your SMTP relay server is not up to date.
    --
    ThererCOs a mighty big difference between good, sound reasons and reasons
    that sound good.

    Burton Hillis (William Vaughn, American columnist)

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Davey@davey@example.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Sun Jan 11 14:33:21 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On Sun, 11 Jan 2026 12:49:05 +0000
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
    On 11/01/2026 12:32, Davey wrote:
    On Sun, 11 Jan 2026 12:29:50 +0000
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    On 11/01/2026 12:23, Davey wrote:
    On Sun, 11 Jan 2026 10:48:19 +0000
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    On 10/01/2026 18:09, Davey wrote:
    Get in touch with Big Clive. Sounds like something right up his
    street. It would make a good rCLfix it rCL video.

    bigclive1@gmail.com

    Tim

    I tried to send Big Clive a message, but I get a reply that the
    SSl/TLS certificate is faulty.

    That may be gmail being picky about your mail sender. If you have
    e.g. a gmail account try that.




    It was sent from my gmail account. I have deleted it anyway.

    Ah well, that may be a problem at Clive's end..


    I have never seen that fault before anywhere else, so I couldn't be bothered to dig further.

    Oh I have...but never from a mail system. Only from a browser.

    It usually means your SMTP relay server is not up to date.


    It is updated whenever Mozilla sends out an update. And why just that
    one message?
    --
    Davey.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Andy Burns@usenet@andyburns.uk to uk.d-i-y on Sun Jan 11 15:49:22 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    Davey wrote:

    The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    It usually means your SMTP relay server is not up to date.

    It is updated whenever Mozilla sends out an update. And why just that
    one message?

    Since you mentioned gmail, presumably you're referring to firefox, but
    that's your client not your relay server, you're using gmail's own
    servers ...

    One gmail user having problems sending to another gmail user, is
    basically gmail's problem, as you said ... if it happens again post the message
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Davey@davey@example.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Sun Jan 11 16:44:02 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On Sun, 11 Jan 2026 15:49:22 +0000
    Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:

    Davey wrote:

    The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    It usually means your SMTP relay server is not up to date.

    It is updated whenever Mozilla sends out an update. And why just
    that one message?

    Since you mentioned gmail, presumably you're referring to firefox,
    but that's your client not your relay server, you're using gmail's
    own servers ...

    One gmail user having problems sending to another gmail user, is
    basically gmail's problem, as you said ... if it happens again post
    the message

    Ok. I was referring to Thunderbird, not Firefox.
    --
    Davey.

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Sam Plusnet@not@home.com to uk.d-i-y on Sun Jan 11 20:43:58 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 11/01/2026 16:44, Davey wrote:
    On Sun, 11 Jan 2026 15:49:22 +0000
    Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:

    Davey wrote:

    The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    It usually means your SMTP relay server is not up to date.

    It is updated whenever Mozilla sends out an update. And why just
    that one message?

    Since you mentioned gmail, presumably you're referring to firefox,
    but that's your client not your relay server, you're using gmail's
    own servers ...

    One gmail user having problems sending to another gmail user, is
    basically gmail's problem, as you said ... if it happens again post
    the message

    Ok. I was referring to Thunderbird, not Firefox.

    Is there a different email address for him somewhere on his web site?

    https://www.bigclive.com/
    --
    Sam Plusnet
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Tim+@timdownieuk@yahoo.co.youkay to uk.d-i-y on Sun Jan 11 21:03:27 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
    On 11/01/2026 16:44, Davey wrote:
    On Sun, 11 Jan 2026 15:49:22 +0000
    Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:

    Davey wrote:

    The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    It usually means your SMTP relay server is not up to date.

    It is updated whenever Mozilla sends out an update. And why just
    that one message?

    Since you mentioned gmail, presumably you're referring to firefox,
    but that's your client not your relay server, you're using gmail's
    own servers ...

    One gmail user having problems sending to another gmail user, is
    basically gmail's problem, as you said ... if it happens again post
    the message

    Ok. I was referring to Thunderbird, not Firefox.

    Is there a different email address for him somewhere on his web site?

    https://www.bigclive.com/


    The gmail one was the only one I could find. He has X, Facebook and Bluesky accounts but it doesnrCOt look like herCOs used any of them recently (or at all). An elusive man! ;-)

    Tim
    --
    Please don't feed the trolls
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Andy Burns@usenet@andyburns.uk to uk.d-i-y on Sun Jan 11 21:28:44 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    Sam Plusnet wrote:

    Is there a different email address for him somewhere on his web site?

    https://www.bigclive.com/
    The same gmail addr is mentioned on the (now defunct) shop page, that's
    the address that I did reach him on as I mentioned ... and he replied
    from the same addr.

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Davey@davey@example.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Sun Jan 11 23:33:16 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On Sun, 11 Jan 2026 20:43:58 +0000
    Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:

    On 11/01/2026 16:44, Davey wrote:
    On Sun, 11 Jan 2026 15:49:22 +0000
    Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:

    Davey wrote:

    The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    It usually means your SMTP relay server is not up to date.

    It is updated whenever Mozilla sends out an update. And why just
    that one message?

    Since you mentioned gmail, presumably you're referring to firefox,
    but that's your client not your relay server, you're using gmail's
    own servers ...

    One gmail user having problems sending to another gmail user, is
    basically gmail's problem, as you said ... if it happens again post
    the message

    Ok. I was referring to Thunderbird, not Firefox.

    Is there a different email address for him somewhere on his web site?

    https://www.bigclive.com/


    As I said, I have deleted my message to him, and that is as far as I
    will go with this.
    --
    Davey.

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Davey@davey@example.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Mon Jan 12 09:39:54 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On Sun, 11 Jan 2026 20:43:58 +0000
    Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:

    On 11/01/2026 16:44, Davey wrote:
    On Sun, 11 Jan 2026 15:49:22 +0000
    Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:

    Davey wrote:

    The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    It usually means your SMTP relay server is not up to date.

    It is updated whenever Mozilla sends out an update. And why just
    that one message?

    Since you mentioned gmail, presumably you're referring to firefox,
    but that's your client not your relay server, you're using gmail's
    own servers ...

    One gmail user having problems sending to another gmail user, is
    basically gmail's problem, as you said ... if it happens again post
    the message

    Ok. I was referring to Thunderbird, not Firefox.

    Is there a different email address for him somewhere on his web site?

    https://www.bigclive.com/


    As I said, I have deleted my message to him, and that is as far as I
    will go with this.
    --
    Davey.

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Davey@davey@example.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Tue Jan 13 09:28:45 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On Sun, 11 Jan 2026 08:45:38 +0000
    Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:

    On Sat, 10 Jan 2026 23:50:53 -0500
    Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

    On Fri, 1/9/2026 8:57 AM, Andy Burns wrote:
    David Wade wrote:

    On 09/01/2026 14:03, Andy Burns wrote:
    David Wade wrote:

    what on earth could be wrong with any ones house wiring to
    cause this?

    Various possibilities, but if an electrician has done checks
    they've presumably been ruled-out (L/N reversed, high impedance
    earth, broken N in neighbouring property or street)

    How would any of these cause issues with a UPS.

    non-trivial voltage difference between N and E, fluctuating
    voltage
    It MUST not pass any current down the earth wire otherwise it
    would trip RCDs and fail a PAT test. If there was a neutral fault
    everything else wouldn't work.

    Its CE marked, and as continental mains sockets are reservable
    live/ neutral interchange should also be a non-issue.
    UPSes monitor the mains carefully (where normal appliances don't)
    I've known several that got upset by the quality of mains put out
    by large site-wide generators ...

    The computer in a modern UPS (even if it only has a flashing red LED
    for status), can have all sorts of firmware for monitoring "power
    quality".

    If it does have such a feature, you'd want to check whatever
    software is offered with it, to see if any analysis it is doing, is
    printed out in the Application.

    Paul


    The software is installed on my PC, it wants to talk, but never gets
    the chance to establish communication.


    Out of interest, I decided to see what, if anything, the PC knew about
    the UPS USB connection. I plugged in the cable, and the terminal
    'lsusb' command produced the result:
    Bus 001 Device 010: ID 0463:ffff MGE UPS Systems UPS
    But although the box appears on the screen, it does not respond to any
    attempt to communicate, there are 4 tabs across the top: Status, Node,
    Date, Messages. None of them offer any information., just empty menu
    spaces.
    I will now read through the 'Tutorial' on Eaton's website and maybe
    re-install the IPP to see if that helps it communicate.
    --
    Davey.

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Davey@davey@example.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Tue Jan 13 09:47:54 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On Tue, 13 Jan 2026 09:28:45 +0000
    Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:

    On Sun, 11 Jan 2026 08:45:38 +0000
    Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:

    On Sat, 10 Jan 2026 23:50:53 -0500
    Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

    On Fri, 1/9/2026 8:57 AM, Andy Burns wrote:
    David Wade wrote:

    On 09/01/2026 14:03, Andy Burns wrote:
    David Wade wrote:

    what on earth could be wrong with any ones house wiring to
    cause this?

    Various possibilities, but if an electrician has done checks
    they've presumably been ruled-out (L/N reversed, high
    impedance earth, broken N in neighbouring property or street)


    How would any of these cause issues with a UPS.

    non-trivial voltage difference between N and E, fluctuating
    voltage
    It MUST not pass any current down the earth wire otherwise it
    would trip RCDs and fail a PAT test. If there was a neutral
    fault everything else wouldn't work.

    Its CE marked, and as continental mains sockets are reservable
    live/ neutral interchange should also be a non-issue.
    UPSes monitor the mains carefully (where normal appliances
    don't) I've known several that got upset by the quality of
    mains put out by large site-wide generators ...

    The computer in a modern UPS (even if it only has a flashing red
    LED for status), can have all sorts of firmware for monitoring
    "power quality".

    If it does have such a feature, you'd want to check whatever
    software is offered with it, to see if any analysis it is doing,
    is printed out in the Application.

    Paul


    The software is installed on my PC, it wants to talk, but never gets
    the chance to establish communication.


    Out of interest, I decided to see what, if anything, the PC knew about
    the UPS USB connection. I plugged in the cable, and the terminal
    'lsusb' command produced the result:
    Bus 001 Device 010: ID 0463:ffff MGE UPS Systems UPS
    But although the box appears on the screen, it does not respond to any attempt to communicate, there are 4 tabs across the top: Status, Node,
    Date, Messages. None of them offer any information., just empty menu
    spaces.
    I will now read through the 'Tutorial' on Eaton's website and maybe re-install the IPP to see if that helps it communicate.


    And as usual, it fails with things happening that I cannot quickly fix.
    The first attempt to re-install the software failed due to a file not
    being empty. I emptied it. The 2nd attempt appeared to succeed, although
    I do not now have the box onscreen.
    Following the tutorial again results in problems. I get to the point
    where it complains about an Unsafe Connection, but I can get to a Login
    screen. But I have no idea what it wants, entering my PC ID and PW do
    not work. This is not mentioned in the tutorial. I might ask them for
    help, or I might just not waste my time.
    --
    Davey.

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2