• Swiss Club Fire

    From Tricky Dicky@tricky.dicky@sky.com to uk.d-i-y on Fri Jan 2 15:30:16 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y


    Just been looking at the latest photos of the start of the fire. It looks
    like people were waving champagne bottles about that had sparkler fireworks attached similar to ones you can get in your local supermarket to decorate birthday cakes. These rCLindoorrCY fireworks normally last a matter of seconds yet they managed to set the ceiling on fire. Looking at the latest photos
    of the ceiling it looks like it is covered with what appears like egg boxes which I presume was some kind of acoustic material so it begs the question
    is this material so prone to ignition? Is this another Grenfell situation
    of using inappropriate materials or poor building control.

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  • From Bob Eager@news0009@eager.cx to uk.d-i-y on Fri Jan 2 15:33:58 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On Fri, 02 Jan 2026 15:30:16 +0000, Tricky Dicky wrote:

    Just been looking at the latest photos of the start of the fire. It
    looks like people were waving champagne bottles about that had sparkler fireworks attached similar to ones you can get in your local supermarket
    to decorate birthday cakes. These rCLindoorrCY fireworks normally last a matter of seconds yet they managed to set the ceiling on fire. Looking
    at the latest photos of the ceiling it looks like it is covered with
    what appears like egg boxes which I presume was some kind of acoustic material so it begs the question is this material so prone to ignition?
    Is this another Grenfell situation of using inappropriate materials or
    poor building control.

    There was a picture of a woman in a black dress waving one of those while perched on someone's shoulders.
    --
    My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
    wish to copy them they can pay me -u1 a message.
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  • From David@wibble@btinternet.com to uk.d-i-y on Fri Jan 2 17:36:55 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On Fri, 02 Jan 2026 15:30:16 +0000, Tricky Dicky wrote:

    Just been looking at the latest photos of the start of the fire. It
    looks like people were waving champagne bottles about that had sparkler fireworks attached similar to ones you can get in your local supermarket
    to decorate birthday cakes. These rCLindoorrCY fireworks normally last a matter of seconds yet they managed to set the ceiling on fire. Looking
    at the latest photos of the ceiling it looks like it is covered with
    what appears like egg boxes which I presume was some kind of acoustic material so it begs the question is this material so prone to ignition?
    Is this another Grenfell situation of using inappropriate materials or
    poor building control.

    If the sparkler is stuck in a champagne cork and you pop the cork the
    sparkler is likely to hit the ceiling.
    Or anything attached to it.
    Like inflammable acoustic tiles.

    Cheers



    Dave R
    --
    AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 10 x64

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    This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com
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  • From N_Cook@diverse@tcp.co.uk to uk.d-i-y on Fri Jan 2 17:45:03 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 02/01/2026 15:30, Tricky Dicky wrote:

    Just been looking at the latest photos of the start of the fire. It looks like people were waving champagne bottles about that had sparkler fireworks attached similar to ones you can get in your local supermarket to decorate birthday cakes. These rCLindoorrCY fireworks normally last a matter of seconds
    yet they managed to set the ceiling on fire. Looking at the latest photos
    of the ceiling it looks like it is covered with what appears like egg boxes which I presume was some kind of acoustic material so it begs the question
    is this material so prone to ignition? Is this another Grenfell situation
    of using inappropriate materials or poor building control.


    For am-dram stage scenery madeof cardboard , textiles and the like, the traditional fire-retarding measure was a mixtue of borax and boracic
    acid washed over the material.
    --
    Global sea level rise to 2100 from curve-fitted existing altimetry data <http://diverse.4mg.com/slr.htm>
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  • From Tricky Dicky@tricky.dicky@sky.com to uk.d-i-y on Fri Jan 2 18:05:04 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    David <wibble@btinternet.com> wrote:
    On Fri, 02 Jan 2026 15:30:16 +0000, Tricky Dicky wrote:

    Just been looking at the latest photos of the start of the fire. It
    looks like people were waving champagne bottles about that had sparkler
    fireworks attached similar to ones you can get in your local supermarket
    to decorate birthday cakes. These rCLindoorrCY fireworks normally last a
    matter of seconds yet they managed to set the ceiling on fire. Looking
    at the latest photos of the ceiling it looks like it is covered with
    what appears like egg boxes which I presume was some kind of acoustic
    material so it begs the question is this material so prone to ignition?
    Is this another Grenfell situation of using inappropriate materials or
    poor building control.

    If the sparkler is stuck in a champagne cork and you pop the cork the sparkler is likely to hit the ceiling.
    Or anything attached to it.
    Like inflammable acoustic tiles.

    Cheers



    Dave R


    I just cannot believe that someone would create a ceiling that a few sparks from a sparkler would set on fire so easy. When I think to soldering pipes adjacent to ordinary plasterboard without a heat shield and the worst that happened was a bit scorching but no fire.
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  • From Tim+@timdownieuk@yahoo.co.youkay to uk.d-i-y on Fri Jan 2 18:10:13 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    Tricky Dicky <tricky.dicky@sky.com> wrote:
    David <wibble@btinternet.com> wrote:
    On Fri, 02 Jan 2026 15:30:16 +0000, Tricky Dicky wrote:

    Just been looking at the latest photos of the start of the fire. It
    looks like people were waving champagne bottles about that had sparkler
    fireworks attached similar to ones you can get in your local supermarket >>> to decorate birthday cakes. These rCLindoorrCY fireworks normally last a >>> matter of seconds yet they managed to set the ceiling on fire. Looking
    at the latest photos of the ceiling it looks like it is covered with
    what appears like egg boxes which I presume was some kind of acoustic
    material so it begs the question is this material so prone to ignition?
    Is this another Grenfell situation of using inappropriate materials or
    poor building control.

    If the sparkler is stuck in a champagne cork and you pop the cork the
    sparkler is likely to hit the ceiling.
    Or anything attached to it.
    Like inflammable acoustic tiles.

    Cheers



    Dave R


    I just cannot believe that someone would create a ceiling that a few sparks from a sparkler would set on fire so easy.

    Sadly I can. The evidence is certainly pointing strongly in that
    direction.

    Tim
    --
    Please don't feed the trolls
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  • From Roland Perry@roland@perry.co.uk to uk.d-i-y on Fri Jan 2 18:22:18 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    In message <10j906q$2hb8v$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:45:03 on Fri, 2 Jan
    2026, N_Cook <diverse@tcp.co.uk> remarked:

    For am-dram stage scenery madeof cardboard , textiles and the like, the >traditional fire-retarding measure was a mixtue of borax and boracic
    acid washed over the material.

    Back in the day when I was helping make such scenery, we used to have
    long debates as to whether the process was "fire proofing" or "anti fire proofing". I was of the view the latter would be akin to painting them
    with phosphorous.
    --
    Roland Perry
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  • From Charles Hope@clh@candehope.me.uk to uk.d-i-y on Fri Jan 2 18:45:14 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 02/01/2026 18:22, Roland Perry wrote:
    In message <10j906q$2hb8v$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:45:03 on Fri, 2 Jan
    2026, N_Cook <diverse@tcp.co.uk> remarked:

    For am-dram stage scenery madeof cardboard , textiles and the like,
    the traditional fire-retarding measure was a mixtue of borax and
    boracic acid washed-a over the material.

    I remember that from over 60 years ago. I'm surprised that there isn't somthing more up to date


    Back in the day when I was helping make such scenery, we used to have
    long debates as to whether the process was "fire proofing" or "anti fire proofing". I was of the view the latter would be akin to painting them
    with phosphorous.

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  • From The Natural Philosopher@tnp@invalid.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Fri Jan 2 19:31:07 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 02/01/2026 15:30, Tricky Dicky wrote:
    Is this another Grenfell situation
    of using inappropriate materials or poor building control.
    ...Probably
    --
    rCLThose who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.rCY

    rCo Voltaire, Questions sur les Miracles |a M. Claparede, Professeur de Th|-ologie |a Gen|?ve, par un Proposant: Ou Extrait de Diverses Lettres de
    M. de Voltaire

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  • From Tricky Dicky@tricky.dicky@sky.com to uk.d-i-y on Sat Jan 3 16:25:38 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    Tricky Dicky <tricky.dicky@sky.com> wrote:

    Just been looking at the latest photos of the start of the fire. It looks like people were waving champagne bottles about that had sparkler fireworks attached similar to ones you can get in your local supermarket to decorate birthday cakes. These rCLindoorrCY fireworks normally last a matter of seconds
    yet they managed to set the ceiling on fire. Looking at the latest photos
    of the ceiling it looks like it is covered with what appears like egg boxes which I presume was some kind of acoustic material so it begs the question
    is this material so prone to ignition? Is this another Grenfell situation
    of using inappropriate materials or poor building control.



    It looks very much the egg box structure was acoustic foam and it ignited before flashing over.


    Another focus is on foam-like padding on the bar's ceiling and whether it
    was compliant with safety standards.
    Two fire safety experts told BBC Verify that the materials visible in
    photos and videos of Le Constellation appeared to show "egg box foam", a
    type of sound-absorbing material made from polyurethane (PU).
    In the photo of the bottles being held up, flames are visible on a part of
    the ceiling with a foam-like covering.
    PU foam is often treated with fire-retardant before being installed as a
    noise dampener in factories and entertainment venues.
    But untreated, it can be highly flammable.
    "Once ignited, polyurethane acoustic foam can exhibit rapid flame spread
    across its high-surface-area profile and produce dense, toxic smoke, significantly accelerating fire growth and reducing available escape time," said Dr Peter Wilkinson of Loughborough University.
    Professor Edwin Galea, from the University of Greenwich, said the
    effectiveness of retardant treatment on PU foam can wear off over time.
    The Swiss authorities say they cannot confirm what type of foam-padding was used in the bar and whether or not it complied with safety standards.
    In Friday's press conference, officials talked about a "flashover"
    happening in the bar.
    Professor Galea explained this is what happens when hot gases rise to the ceiling, reach a critical temperature and then ignite the room near instantaneously.
    According to Michael Klippel, a fire safety expert at ETH Zurich
    University, "survival after flashover is very unlikely".
    The authority responsible for overseeing fire safety inspections in Crans-Montana is the Office Cantonal du Feu (OCF) of the Canton of Valais.
    The inspections are carried out by local officials.
    Swiss authorities said in a press conference that inspections on a building
    the size of Le Constellation should have been carried out each year.
    BBC Verify has contacted the OCF to request access to previous inspection documents.

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  • From Max Demian@max_demian@bigfoot.com to uk.d-i-y on Sat Jan 3 17:42:20 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 02/01/2026 18:05, Tricky Dicky wrote:

    I just cannot believe that someone would create a ceiling that a few sparks from a sparkler would set on fire so easy. When I think to soldering pipes adjacent to ordinary plasterboard without a heat shield and the worst that happened was a bit scorching but no fire.

    Well they're not like the normal sparklers that kids use to write their
    name in the air. I think they are what are called "Bengal Lights";
    formerly used for signalling.

    Still daft the have flammable soundproofing.
    --
    Max Demian
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  • From GB@NOTsomeone@microsoft.invalid to uk.d-i-y on Mon Jan 5 19:07:54 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On 03/01/2026 16:25, Tricky Dicky wrote:
    Tricky Dicky <tricky.dicky@sky.com> wrote:

    Just been looking at the latest photos of the start of the fire. It looks
    like people were waving champagne bottles about that had sparkler fireworks >> attached similar to ones you can get in your local supermarket to decorate >> birthday cakes. These rCLindoorrCY fireworks normally last a matter of seconds
    yet they managed to set the ceiling on fire. Looking at the latest photos
    of the ceiling it looks like it is covered with what appears like egg boxes >> which I presume was some kind of acoustic material so it begs the question >> is this material so prone to ignition? Is this another Grenfell situation
    of using inappropriate materials or poor building control.



    It looks very much the egg box structure was acoustic foam and it ignited before flashing over.


    Another focus is on foam-like padding on the bar's ceiling and whether it
    was compliant with safety standards.
    Two fire safety experts told BBC Verify that the materials visible in
    photos and videos of Le Constellation appeared to show "egg box foam", a
    type of sound-absorbing material made from polyurethane (PU).
    In the photo of the bottles being held up, flames are visible on a part of the ceiling with a foam-like covering.
    PU foam is often treated with fire-retardant before being installed as a noise dampener in factories and entertainment venues.
    But untreated, it can be highly flammable.
    "Once ignited, polyurethane acoustic foam can exhibit rapid flame spread across its high-surface-area profile and produce dense, toxic smoke, significantly accelerating fire growth and reducing available escape time," said Dr Peter Wilkinson of Loughborough University.
    Professor Edwin Galea, from the University of Greenwich, said the effectiveness of retardant treatment on PU foam can wear off over time.
    The Swiss authorities say they cannot confirm what type of foam-padding was used in the bar and whether or not it complied with safety standards.
    In Friday's press conference, officials talked about a "flashover"
    happening in the bar.
    Professor Galea explained this is what happens when hot gases rise to the ceiling, reach a critical temperature and then ignite the room near instantaneously.
    According to Michael Klippel, a fire safety expert at ETH Zurich
    University, "survival after flashover is very unlikely".
    The authority responsible for overseeing fire safety inspections in Crans-Montana is the Office Cantonal du Feu (OCF) of the Canton of Valais. The inspections are carried out by local officials.
    Swiss authorities said in a press conference that inspections on a building the size of Le Constellation should have been carried out each year.
    BBC Verify has contacted the OCF to request access to previous inspection documents.



    Then it looks a bit tatty after a while. Nothing that a lick of paint
    won't cure, though.


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  • From Alan Lee@alan@darkroom.plus.com to uk.d-i-y on Mon Jan 5 20:40:26 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    On Fri, 02 Jan 2026 15:30:16 +0000, Tricky Dicky wrote:

    Just been looking at the latest photos of the start of the fire. It
    looks like people were waving champagne bottles about that had sparkler
    fireworks attached similar to ones you can get in your local supermarket
    to decorate birthday cakes.


    On hearing this on the news, I thought immediately of the New York Club
    fire that was started by a Band letting off fireworks inside. The video
    linked below shows the full tradegy.It sounds a very similar event,we
    dont know about the deaths yet, and whether crushing was the main cause
    in Switzerland.
    We were shown this on a H&S course. IIRC, many people were crushed in
    the panic to get out, and, if everyone had been calm,very few people
    would have died.The video shows the crush of people trying to get out,
    and just being stuck at the entrance. <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rO0ioCCiEe8>
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  • From Tim+@timdownieuk@yahoo.co.youkay to uk.d-i-y on Tue Jan 6 16:56:23 2026
    From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

    Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com> wrote:
    On Fri, 02 Jan 2026 15:30:16 +0000, Tricky Dicky wrote:

    Just been looking at the latest photos of the start of the fire. It
    looks like people were waving champagne bottles about that had sparkler
    fireworks attached similar to ones you can get in your local supermarket >>> to decorate birthday cakes.


    On hearing this on the news, I thought immediately of the New York Club
    fire that was started by a Band letting off fireworks inside. The video linked below shows the full tradegy.It sounds a very similar event,we
    dont know about the deaths yet, and whether crushing was the main cause
    in Switzerland.
    We were shown this on a H&S course. IIRC, many people were crushed in
    the panic to get out, and, if everyone had been calm,very few people
    would have died.The video shows the crush of people trying to get out,
    and just being stuck at the entrance. <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rO0ioCCiEe8>


    I have a bit of a phobia about limited access basement venues for this very reason.

    Tim
    --
    Please don't feed the trolls
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