From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

Further to the amusing scam email...

...As far as I can tell most USB webcams are *hard wired* so that data
cannot be streamed without the light being on...

I believe mine certainly is. (Logitech C170)

I do note that linux never lights it up unless I am using it
--
"It was a lot more fun being 20 in the 70's that it is being 70 in the 20's" Joew Walsh
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From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

As far as I can tell most USB webcams are hard wired so that data cannot
be streamed without the light being on...

Perhaps you are putting too much faith in the manufacturer, I would
suspect the I/O port driving the LED is independent from reading data
from the image sensor, so you're at the mercy of the USB driver ...

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From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

On 02/03/2026 11:40, Andy Burns wrote:

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

As far as I can tell most USB webcams are hard wired so that data
cannot be streamed without the light being on...

Perhaps you are putting too much faith in the manufacturer, I would
suspect the I/O port driving the LED is independent from reading data
from the image sensor, so you're at the mercy of the USB driver ...

My Dell notebook PC runs linux Mint and only lights up the LED when
the camera is active. However, there is no need to trust the software
as it has a mechanical shutter over the camera lens.

John

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From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

On Mon, 3/2/2026 4:02 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Further to the amusing scam email...

...As far as I can tell most USB webcams are *hard wired* so that data cannot be streamed without the light being on...

I believe mine certainly is. (Logitech C170)

I do note that linux never lights it up unless I am using it

Just put tape over it. OK ? :-)

https://coesecurity.com/badcam-linux-webcam-hack-risk/

Paul
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From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

On 02/03/2026 11:40, Andy Burns wrote:

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

As far as I can tell most USB webcams are hard wired so that data
cannot be streamed without the light being on...

Perhaps you are putting too much faith in the manufacturer, I would
suspect the I/O port driving the LED is independent from reading data
from the image sensor, so you're at the mercy of the USB driver ...

I can't see that that makes any sense.

There is only one 'I/O port' and that is the USB socket Which is serial
data.

The LED is simply wired across the power supply that drives the camera:
if the camera is on so is the LED.

Teh sole purpose of the LED is security: there is no reason to make it 'independent'
--
rCLThere are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isnrCOt true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.rCY

rCoSoren Kierkegaard

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From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

On 02/03/2026 15:42, Paul wrote:

On Mon, 3/2/2026 4:02 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Further to the amusing scam email...

...As far as I can tell most USB webcams are *hard wired* so that data cannot be streamed without the light being on...

I believe mine certainly is. (Logitech C170)

I do note that linux never lights it up unless I am using it

Just put tape over it. OK ? :-)

https://coesecurity.com/badcam-linux-webcam-hack-risk/

Paul

I see a vaguely worded threat from a company selling security.
They can fuck off as well.
There is no way to 'reflash' a USB webcam. at least not mine
--
If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will
eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such
time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic
and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally
important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for
the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the
truth is the greatest enemy of the State.

Joseph Goebbels




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From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I would suspect the I/O port driving the LED is independent from
reading data from the image sensor, so you're at the mercy of the USB
driver ...

I can't see that that makes any sense.

There is only one 'I/O port' and that is the USB socket Which is serial data.

I'm talking about I/O from the PoV of the -|P inside the webcam.

There's also very likely an extra USB "endpoint" within the webcam,
hidden until some sequence of events, but once enabled it allows
re-flashing the firmware, or running in a test mode.

The LED is simply wired across the power supply that drives the camera:
if the camera is on so is the LED.

I doubt it, it will be controlled by firmware, otherwise every time you "turned off" the webcam, you'd have to unplug and re-plug it to start
using tgw camera again.

Teh sole purpose of the LED is security: there is no reason to make it 'independent'

For a genuine manufacturer, yes, you'd hope there was a direct link, but surely you can see how a less scrupulous (or diligent) manufacturer
could allow the LED to provide the *illusion* of security?
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From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

On 02/03/2026 17:05, Andy Burns wrote:

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I would suspect the I/O port driving the LED is independent from
reading data from the image sensor, so you're at the mercy of the USB
driver ...

I can't see that that makes any sense.

There is only one 'I/O port' and that is the USB socket Which is
serial data.

I'm talking about I/O from the PoV of the -|P inside the webcam.

There's also very likely an extra USB "endpoint" within the webcam,
hidden until some sequence of events, but once enabled it allows
re-flashing the firmware, or running in a test mode.

There are no firmware upgrades available for that model nor any way to
implement them

The LED is simply wired across the power supply that drives the
camera: if the camera is on so is the LED.

I doubt it, it will be controlled by firmware, otherwise every time you "turned off" the webcam, you'd have to unplug and re-plug it to start
using tgw camera again.

The whole camera is 'controlled by firmware' but my point is that the
firmware switches the camera and microphone on , puts power to the
modules and lights the LED which is running off the same power rails
that the camera and mic are.

Armchair security experts are always finding edge cases where there
*might be* an issue as are firms selling their own scam security software.

Teh sole purpose of the LED is security: there is no reason to make it
'independent'

For a genuine manufacturer, yes, you'd hope there was a direct link, but surely you can see how a less scrupulous (or diligent) manufacturer
could allow the LED to provide the *illusion* of security?

The world is full of bullshit and 'could's', a point used by those proselytising for climate change using the bogus 'precautionary'
principle which means that all risk no matter how impossible is to be
avoided at all costs, so no one should ever be allowed to drive a car,
won a chain saw, eat meat, own a carving knife etc. etc.
--
rCLThe ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to
fill the world with fools.rCY

Herbert Spencer

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From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

The whole camera is 'controlled by firmware' but my point is that the firmware switches the camera and microphone on , puts power to the
modules and lights the LED which is running off the same power rails
that the camera and mic are.

And you know all of this, how?

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From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

There are no firmware upgrades available for that model nor any way to
-aimplement them

"Logitech Webcam C170
https://support.logi.com rC| 360024784413-Webcam-C170
Firmware Update Tool is no longer supported or maintained by Logitech."

So there is a firmware mechanism ...

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From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

On 02/03/2026 19:17, Andy Burns wrote:

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

The whole camera is 'controlled by firmware' but my point is that the
firmware switches the camera and microphone on , puts power to the
modules and lights the LED which is running off the same power rails
that the camera and mic are.

And you know all of this, how?

1. Because I looked at the manufactures data
2. Because I am an electronics/software engineer and I know 'how stuff
works'.
3. Because others asked the question before.
4. Because that is the cheapest lowest component count way to do it
--
Microsoft : the best reason to go to Linux that ever existed.

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From Newsgroup: uk.d-i-y

On 02/03/2026 19:26, Andy Burns wrote:

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

There are no firmware upgrades available for that model nor any way to
-a-aimplement them

"Logitech Webcam C170
https://support.logi.com rC| 360024784413-Webcam-C170
Firmware Update Tool is no longer supported or maintained by Logitech."

Doesn't exist on that site

So there is a firmware mechanism ...

No. There is not
--
Microsoft : the best reason to go to Linux that ever existed.

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