I've recently claimed here that the 80 megabytes of information in the functional portion of the human genome is wildly insufficient to specify
the development of a human [1] into the system that is us [2]. I've suggested that the "missing" information must be located in the ovum's cytoplasm, organelles and membrane.
I've directly asked a number of contributors here if they believe 80 MB
is sufficient to specify a human. This has generally been met with
silence. I can understand why, after an even cursory consideration of
[1] and [2]. Moreover, the implications of this for evolutionary theory
and biology are profound.
Anyway, it seems that ID agrees with me. This may not help convince you,
but I'm encouraged that others think this is an issue that needs attention.
If you're unfamiliar, what you may find interesting is ID's proposed solution: an "immaterial genome", with reference to Neoplatonism.
I'm not discounting that position, but do find it surprising! Would this
be a new creationist category, something like Continuous Creation? Some
may have less complimentary suggestions.
Anyway, enjoy (Ron, you may need medical attention after reading these):
https://scienceandculture.com/2025/05/the-immaterial-genome-richard- sternbergs-labor-of-love/
https://scienceandculture.com/2025/04/the-math-behind-the-immaterial- genome/
______________
[1] FROM ONE CELL TO A HUMAN BEING: AN OVERVIEW OF THE PROCESS AND ITS MYSTERIES
*Fertilisation* begins when a sperm and ovum fuse to form a single cell:
the *zygote*. In that moment, a new, genetically unique human organism exists. Yet nothing visible distinguishes this cell from countless
others. What follows is one of the most extraordinary processes known in nature.
---
## 1. Exponential division without growth: cleavage
Within hours, the zygote begins dividing: 1 cell becomes 2, then 4, 8,
16, and so on. These early divisions, called *cleavage*, are remarkable because the total size of the embryo does not increase. Instead, the original cytoplasm is partitioned into ever-smaller cells.
Key features:
* Division is rapid and tightly synchronized.
* Cells remain enclosed in the original outer membrane.
* The embryo reaches ~100 cells in a few days.
*What is striking:*
All cells initially appear equivalent, yet they are already on
trajectories that will lead to radically different fates.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How early asymmetriesrCosubtle differences in molecular concentrations, mechanics, and timingrCobias later cell fate decisions with such reliability.
---
## 2. Self-organisation and implantation: the blastocyst
After several days, the embryo reorganises into a *blastocyst*rCoa hollow structure with:
* an *inner cell mass* (which will become the body),
* and an *outer layer* (which will help form the placenta).
The blastocyst implants into the uterine wall, establishing a
biochemical dialogue with the mother that allows pregnancy to continue.
*What is striking:*
This organisation emerges without a central controller. Cells rCLdeciderCY their roles through local interactions, gene regulation, and physical constraints.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How global structure arises so robustly from local rules, and why implantation succeeds or fails so often despite apparently normal embryos.
---
## 3. The body plan appears: gastrulation
Around the third week, the embryo undergoes *gastrulation*, often called *the most important event in your life*. A simple sheet of cells folds
and rearranges to form three foundational layers:
* *Ectoderm* raA nervous system, skin
* *Mesoderm* raA muscle, bone, blood, heart
* *Endoderm* raA gut, liver, lungs
From this point onward, the basic body axesrCohead to tail, back to
front, left to rightrCoare established.
*What is striking:*
A consistent human body plan emerges from dramatic cellular movements
that look, under a microscope, almost chaotic.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How genetic instructions, chemical gradients, and mechanical forces are integrated in real time to yield precise, repeatable anatomy.
---
## 4. Differentiation and organ formation: organogenesis
Cells now differentiate into hundreds of specialised types and assemble
into organs. Neural cells wire themselves into circuits. Blood vessels branch through tissues. The heart begins beating while still forming.
Cell numbers increase exponentially, eventually reaching *tens of trillions*, yet:
* proportions are maintained,
* leftrCoright symmetry is mostly preserved,
* errors are detected and corrected.
*What is striking:*
No cell rCLknowsrCY the whole plan, yet the whole plan reliably appears.
*What we do not fully understand:*
* How large-scale structures (like vascular trees or neural
connectivity) are specified without explicit blueprints
* How errors are corrected without derailing development
* How timing is coordinated across vastly different scales
---
## 5. Uniqueness emerges
Although humans share a common body plan, no two individuals are the
same. Small genetic differences, epigenetic marks, maternal factors, and environmental influences interact throughout development to shape:
* brain wiring,
* facial structure,
* physiology,
* and predispositions across a lifetime.
*What is striking:*
Uniqueness is not added at the endrCoit emerges continuously, from the
very first divisions.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How early microscopic differences propagate into macroscopic
individuality, especially in the brain.
---
## The deeper wonder
From a single cell, governed by chemistry and physics, arises:
* consciousness,
* memory,
* creativity,
* moral agency.
This happens not through rigid instruction, but through a *deeply interdependent, multiscale process* that blends genetic rules, physical
law, cellular context, and self-organisation.
Despite immense progress in molecular biology and embryology, we still
lack:
* a complete causal map from genes to form,
* a full explanation of robustness and error correction,
* and a unifying theory of biological development comparable to those in physics.
*In short:*
We understand many of the parts. We understand some of the rules.
But how those rules so reliably give rise to a new, unique human being remains one of the most profound and humbling questions in science.
(ChatGPT)
______________
[2] THE HUMAN BODY COMPRISES 11 MAJOR PHYSIOLOGICAL SYSTEMS
Each exhibiting high functional complexity through scale, precision, and cross-system integration.
1. The *nervous system* provides rapid information processing, with ~86 billion neurons and ~10-|rU|rCo10-|rU| synapses enabling millisecond-scale control while consuming ~20% of resting metabolic energy. Humans possess ~2rCo3|u more cortical neurons than great apes, and this difference alone implies orders of magnitude greater combinatorial processing capacity,
given synaptic scaling; human prefrontal cortex expansion to ~25rCo30% of the total cortex gives disproportionately dense long-range connections enabling abstract reasoning, symbolic thought, counterfactual planning,
and recursive language.
2. The *circulatory system* sustains organism-wide transport via
~100,000 km of blood vessels and a heart that beats ~100,000 times per
day, continuously distributing oxygen, nutrients, hormones, and immune cells.
3. The *respiratory system* enables gas exchange through ~300 million alveoli generating ~70 m-# of surface area, processing ~10,000 liters of
air per day.
4. The *digestive system* converts food into bioavailable energy along a
~9 m tract, with ~30rCo40 trillion gut microbes and ~30rCo40 m-# of absorptive surface area in the small intestine.
5. The *endocrine system* coordinates long-range regulation using
hormones effective at picomolarrConanomolar concentrations, exerting organism-wide control through nested feedback loops.
6. The *immune system* provides adaptive defense with ~10-|-|rCo10-|-# active
immune cells and the capacity to generate >10-|-# distinct antibody
variants with long-term memory.
7. The *musculoskeletal system* enables movement and structural support through ~206 bones and ~600 muscles, with continuous mechanical loading
and bone remodeling (~5rCo10% annually).
8. The *integumentary system* forms a multifunctional protective
interface covering ~1.5rCo2.0 m-# and containing ~20 billion cells, integrating mechanical protection, sensation, and immune signaling.
9. The *urinary (renal) system* maintains chemical homeostasis by
filtering ~180 liters of blood per day across ~2 million nephrons, reabsorbing >99% of filtrate with high selectivity.
10. The *reproductive system* supports species continuity through
hormonally regulated gamete production (up to hundreds of millions of
sperm per day in males) and cyclic reproductive physiology in females.
11. The *lymphatic system* complements circulation and immunity by
returning ~2rCo4 liters of interstitial fluid daily and coordinating
immune surveillance across hundreds of lymph nodes.
Taken together, these systems form a deeply interdependent, multiscale biological architecture, in which trillions of components are
dynamically regulated with molecular precision to maintain stability, adaptability, and continuity of the human organism.
(ChatGPT)
I've recently claimed here that the 80 megabytes of information in the functional portion of the human genome is wildly insufficient to specify
the development of a human [1] into the system that is us [2]. I've suggested that the "missing" information must be located in the ovum's cytoplasm, organelles and membrane.
I've directly asked a number of contributors here if they believe 80 MB
is sufficient to specify a human. This has generally been met with
silence. I can understand why, after an even cursory consideration of
[1] and [2]. Moreover, the implications of this for evolutionary theory
and biology are profound.
Anyway, it seems that ID agrees with me. This may not help convince you,
but I'm encouraged that others think this is an issue that needs attention.
If you're unfamiliar, what you may find interesting is ID's proposed solution: an "immaterial genome", with reference to Neoplatonism.
I'm not discounting that position, but do find it surprising! Would this
be a new creationist category, something like Continuous Creation? Some
may have less complimentary suggestions.
Anyway, enjoy (Ron, you may need medical attention after reading these):
https://scienceandculture.com/2025/05/the-immaterial-genome-richard- sternbergs-labor-of-love/
https://scienceandculture.com/2025/04/the-math-behind-the-immaterial- genome/
______________
[1] FROM ONE CELL TO A HUMAN BEING: AN OVERVIEW OF THE PROCESS AND ITS MYSTERIES
*Fertilisation* begins when a sperm and ovum fuse to form a single cell:
the *zygote*. In that moment, a new, genetically unique human organism exists. Yet nothing visible distinguishes this cell from countless
others. What follows is one of the most extraordinary processes known in nature.
---
## 1. Exponential division without growth: cleavage
Within hours, the zygote begins dividing: 1 cell becomes 2, then 4, 8,
16, and so on. These early divisions, called *cleavage*, are remarkable because the total size of the embryo does not increase. Instead, the original cytoplasm is partitioned into ever-smaller cells.
Key features:
* Division is rapid and tightly synchronized.
* Cells remain enclosed in the original outer membrane.
* The embryo reaches ~100 cells in a few days.
*What is striking:*
All cells initially appear equivalent, yet they are already on
trajectories that will lead to radically different fates.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How early asymmetriesrCosubtle differences in molecular concentrations, mechanics, and timingrCobias later cell fate decisions with such reliability.
---
## 2. Self-organisation and implantation: the blastocyst
After several days, the embryo reorganises into a *blastocyst*rCoa hollow structure with:
* an *inner cell mass* (which will become the body),
* and an *outer layer* (which will help form the placenta).
The blastocyst implants into the uterine wall, establishing a
biochemical dialogue with the mother that allows pregnancy to continue.
*What is striking:*
This organisation emerges without a central controller. Cells rCLdeciderCY their roles through local interactions, gene regulation, and physical constraints.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How global structure arises so robustly from local rules, and why implantation succeeds or fails so often despite apparently normal embryos.
---
## 3. The body plan appears: gastrulation
Around the third week, the embryo undergoes *gastrulation*, often called *the most important event in your life*. A simple sheet of cells folds
and rearranges to form three foundational layers:
* *Ectoderm* raA nervous system, skin
* *Mesoderm* raA muscle, bone, blood, heart
* *Endoderm* raA gut, liver, lungs
From this point onward, the basic body axesrCohead to tail, back to
front, left to rightrCoare established.
*What is striking:*
A consistent human body plan emerges from dramatic cellular movements
that look, under a microscope, almost chaotic.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How genetic instructions, chemical gradients, and mechanical forces are integrated in real time to yield precise, repeatable anatomy.
---
## 4. Differentiation and organ formation: organogenesis
Cells now differentiate into hundreds of specialised types and assemble
into organs. Neural cells wire themselves into circuits. Blood vessels branch through tissues. The heart begins beating while still forming.
Cell numbers increase exponentially, eventually reaching *tens of trillions*, yet:
* proportions are maintained,
* leftrCoright symmetry is mostly preserved,
* errors are detected and corrected.
*What is striking:*
No cell rCLknowsrCY the whole plan, yet the whole plan reliably appears.
*What we do not fully understand:*
* How large-scale structures (like vascular trees or neural
connectivity) are specified without explicit blueprints
* How errors are corrected without derailing development
* How timing is coordinated across vastly different scales
---
## 5. Uniqueness emerges
Although humans share a common body plan, no two individuals are the
same. Small genetic differences, epigenetic marks, maternal factors, and environmental influences interact throughout development to shape:
* brain wiring,
* facial structure,
* physiology,
* and predispositions across a lifetime.
*What is striking:*
Uniqueness is not added at the endrCoit emerges continuously, from the
very first divisions.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How early microscopic differences propagate into macroscopic
individuality, especially in the brain.
---
## The deeper wonder
From a single cell, governed by chemistry and physics, arises:
* consciousness,
* memory,
* creativity,
* moral agency.
This happens not through rigid instruction, but through a *deeply interdependent, multiscale process* that blends genetic rules, physical
law, cellular context, and self-organisation.
Despite immense progress in molecular biology and embryology, we still
lack:
* a complete causal map from genes to form,
* a full explanation of robustness and error correction,
* and a unifying theory of biological development comparable to those in physics.
*In short:*
We understand many of the parts. We understand some of the rules.
But how those rules so reliably give rise to a new, unique human being remains one of the most profound and humbling questions in science.
(ChatGPT)
______________
[2] THE HUMAN BODY COMPRISES 11 MAJOR PHYSIOLOGICAL SYSTEMS
Each exhibiting high functional complexity through scale, precision, and cross-system integration.
1. The *nervous system* provides rapid information processing, with ~86 billion neurons and ~10-|rU|rCo10-|rU| synapses enabling millisecond-scale control while consuming ~20% of resting metabolic energy. Humans possess ~2rCo3|u more cortical neurons than great apes, and this difference alone implies orders of magnitude greater combinatorial processing capacity,
given synaptic scaling; human prefrontal cortex expansion to ~25rCo30% of the total cortex gives disproportionately dense long-range connections enabling abstract reasoning, symbolic thought, counterfactual planning,
and recursive language.
2. The *circulatory system* sustains organism-wide transport via
~100,000 km of blood vessels and a heart that beats ~100,000 times per
day, continuously distributing oxygen, nutrients, hormones, and immune cells.
3. The *respiratory system* enables gas exchange through ~300 million alveoli generating ~70 m-# of surface area, processing ~10,000 liters of
air per day.
4. The *digestive system* converts food into bioavailable energy along a
~9 m tract, with ~30rCo40 trillion gut microbes and ~30rCo40 m-# of absorptive surface area in the small intestine.
5. The *endocrine system* coordinates long-range regulation using
hormones effective at picomolarrConanomolar concentrations, exerting organism-wide control through nested feedback loops.
6. The *immune system* provides adaptive defense with ~10-|-|rCo10-|-# active
immune cells and the capacity to generate >10-|-# distinct antibody
variants with long-term memory.
7. The *musculoskeletal system* enables movement and structural support through ~206 bones and ~600 muscles, with continuous mechanical loading
and bone remodeling (~5rCo10% annually).
8. The *integumentary system* forms a multifunctional protective
interface covering ~1.5rCo2.0 m-# and containing ~20 billion cells, integrating mechanical protection, sensation, and immune signaling.
9. The *urinary (renal) system* maintains chemical homeostasis by
filtering ~180 liters of blood per day across ~2 million nephrons, reabsorbing >99% of filtrate with high selectivity.
10. The *reproductive system* supports species continuity through
hormonally regulated gamete production (up to hundreds of millions of
sperm per day in males) and cyclic reproductive physiology in females.
11. The *lymphatic system* complements circulation and immunity by
returning ~2rCo4 liters of interstitial fluid daily and coordinating
immune surveillance across hundreds of lymph nodes.
Taken together, these systems form a deeply interdependent, multiscale biological architecture, in which trillions of components are
dynamically regulated with molecular precision to maintain stability, adaptability, and continuity of the human organism.
(ChatGPT)
On 7/01/2026 1:13 am, MarkE wrote:
I've recently claimed here that the 80 megabytes of information in the
functional portion of the human genome is wildly insufficient to
specify the development of a human [1] into the system that is us [2].
I've suggested that the "missing" information must be located in the
ovum's cytoplasm, organelles and membrane.
PS Here's a related article on challenges explaining embryologic development:
"Though speculative, the model addresses the poignant absence in the literature of any plausible account of the origin of vertebrate
morphology."
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0079610716300542
I've directly asked a number of contributors here if they believe 80
MB is sufficient to specify a human. This has generally been met with
silence. I can understand why, after an even cursory consideration of
[1] and [2]. Moreover, the implications of this for evolutionary
theory and biology are profound.
Anyway, it seems that ID agrees with me. This may not help convince
you, but I'm encouraged that others think this is an issue that needs
attention.
If you're unfamiliar, what you may find interesting is ID's proposed
solution: an "immaterial genome", with reference to Neoplatonism.
I'm not discounting that position, but do find it surprising! Would
this be a new creationist category, something like Continuous
Creation? Some may have less complimentary suggestions.
Anyway, enjoy (Ron, you may need medical attention after reading these):
https://scienceandculture.com/2025/05/the-immaterial-genome-richard-
sternbergs-labor-of-love/
https://scienceandculture.com/2025/04/the-math-behind-the-immaterial-
genome/
______________
[1] FROM ONE CELL TO A HUMAN BEING: AN OVERVIEW OF THE PROCESS AND ITS
MYSTERIES
*Fertilisation* begins when a sperm and ovum fuse to form a single
cell: the *zygote*. In that moment, a new, genetically unique human
organism exists. Yet nothing visible distinguishes this cell from
countless others. What follows is one of the most extraordinary
processes known in nature.
---
## 1. Exponential division without growth: cleavage
Within hours, the zygote begins dividing: 1 cell becomes 2, then 4, 8,
16, and so on. These early divisions, called *cleavage*, are
remarkable because the total size of the embryo does not increase.
Instead, the original cytoplasm is partitioned into ever-smaller cells.
Key features:
* Division is rapid and tightly synchronized.
* Cells remain enclosed in the original outer membrane.
* The embryo reaches ~100 cells in a few days.
*What is striking:*
All cells initially appear equivalent, yet they are already on
trajectories that will lead to radically different fates.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How early asymmetriesrCosubtle differences in molecular concentrations,
mechanics, and timingrCobias later cell fate decisions with such
reliability.
---
## 2. Self-organisation and implantation: the blastocyst
After several days, the embryo reorganises into a *blastocyst*rCoa
hollow structure with:
* an *inner cell mass* (which will become the body),
* and an *outer layer* (which will help form the placenta).
The blastocyst implants into the uterine wall, establishing a
biochemical dialogue with the mother that allows pregnancy to continue.
*What is striking:*
This organisation emerges without a central controller. Cells rCLdeciderCY >> their roles through local interactions, gene regulation, and physical
constraints.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How global structure arises so robustly from local rules, and why
implantation succeeds or fails so often despite apparently normal
embryos.
---
## 3. The body plan appears: gastrulation
Around the third week, the embryo undergoes *gastrulation*, often
called *the most important event in your life*. A simple sheet of
cells folds and rearranges to form three foundational layers:
* *Ectoderm* raA nervous system, skin
* *Mesoderm* raA muscle, bone, blood, heart
* *Endoderm* raA gut, liver, lungs
-aFrom this point onward, the basic body axesrCohead to tail, back to
front, left to rightrCoare established.
*What is striking:*
A consistent human body plan emerges from dramatic cellular movements
that look, under a microscope, almost chaotic.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How genetic instructions, chemical gradients, and mechanical forces
are integrated in real time to yield precise, repeatable anatomy.
---
## 4. Differentiation and organ formation: organogenesis
Cells now differentiate into hundreds of specialised types and
assemble into organs. Neural cells wire themselves into circuits.
Blood vessels branch through tissues. The heart begins beating while
still forming.
Cell numbers increase exponentially, eventually reaching *tens of
trillions*, yet:
* proportions are maintained,
* leftrCoright symmetry is mostly preserved,
* errors are detected and corrected.
*What is striking:*
No cell rCLknowsrCY the whole plan, yet the whole plan reliably appears.
*What we do not fully understand:*
* How large-scale structures (like vascular trees or neural
connectivity) are specified without explicit blueprints
* How errors are corrected without derailing development
* How timing is coordinated across vastly different scales
---
## 5. Uniqueness emerges
Although humans share a common body plan, no two individuals are the
same. Small genetic differences, epigenetic marks, maternal factors,
and environmental influences interact throughout development to shape:
* brain wiring,
* facial structure,
* physiology,
* and predispositions across a lifetime.
*What is striking:*
Uniqueness is not added at the endrCoit emerges continuously, from the
very first divisions.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How early microscopic differences propagate into macroscopic
individuality, especially in the brain.
---
## The deeper wonder
-aFrom a single cell, governed by chemistry and physics, arises:
* consciousness,
* memory,
* creativity,
* moral agency.
This happens not through rigid instruction, but through a *deeply
interdependent, multiscale process* that blends genetic rules,
physical law, cellular context, and self-organisation.
Despite immense progress in molecular biology and embryology, we still
lack:
* a complete causal map from genes to form,
* a full explanation of robustness and error correction,
* and a unifying theory of biological development comparable to those
in physics.
*In short:*
We understand many of the parts. We understand some of the rules.
But how those rules so reliably give rise to a new, unique human being
remains one of the most profound and humbling questions in science.
(ChatGPT)
______________
[2] THE HUMAN BODY COMPRISES 11 MAJOR PHYSIOLOGICAL SYSTEMS
Each exhibiting high functional complexity through scale, precision,
and cross-system integration.
1. The *nervous system* provides rapid information processing, with
~86 billion neurons and ~10-|rU|rCo10-|rU| synapses enabling millisecond-scale
control while consuming ~20% of resting metabolic energy. Humans
possess ~2rCo3|u more cortical neurons than great apes, and this
difference alone implies orders of magnitude greater combinatorial
processing capacity, given synaptic scaling; human prefrontal cortex
expansion to ~25rCo30% of the total cortex gives disproportionately
dense long-range connections enabling abstract reasoning, symbolic
thought, counterfactual planning, and recursive language.
2. The *circulatory system* sustains organism-wide transport via
~100,000 km of blood vessels and a heart that beats ~100,000 times per
day, continuously distributing oxygen, nutrients, hormones, and immune
cells.
3. The *respiratory system* enables gas exchange through ~300 million
alveoli generating ~70 m-# of surface area, processing ~10,000 liters
of air per day.
4. The *digestive system* converts food into bioavailable energy along
a ~9 m tract, with ~30rCo40 trillion gut microbes and ~30rCo40 m-# of
absorptive surface area in the small intestine.
5. The *endocrine system* coordinates long-range regulation using
hormones effective at picomolarrConanomolar concentrations, exerting
organism-wide control through nested feedback loops.
6. The *immune system* provides adaptive defense with ~10-|-|rCo10-|-#
active immune cells and the capacity to generate >10-|-# distinct
antibody variants with long-term memory.
7. The *musculoskeletal system* enables movement and structural
support through ~206 bones and ~600 muscles, with continuous
mechanical loading and bone remodeling (~5rCo10% annually).
8. The *integumentary system* forms a multifunctional protective
interface covering ~1.5rCo2.0 m-# and containing ~20 billion cells,
integrating mechanical protection, sensation, and immune signaling.
9. The *urinary (renal) system* maintains chemical homeostasis by
filtering ~180 liters of blood per day across ~2 million nephrons,
reabsorbing >99% of filtrate with high selectivity.
10. The *reproductive system* supports species continuity through
hormonally regulated gamete production (up to hundreds of millions of
sperm per day in males) and cyclic reproductive physiology in females.
11. The *lymphatic system* complements circulation and immunity by
returning ~2rCo4 liters of interstitial fluid daily and coordinating
immune surveillance across hundreds of lymph nodes.
Taken together, these systems form a deeply interdependent, multiscale
biological architecture, in which trillions of components are
dynamically regulated with molecular precision to maintain stability,
adaptability, and continuity of the human organism.
(ChatGPT)
I've recently claimed here that the 80 megabytes of information in the functional portion of the human genome is wildly insufficient to specify
the development of a human [1] into the system that is us [2]. I've suggested that the "missing" information must be located in the ovum's cytoplasm, organelles and membrane.
I've directly asked a number of contributors here if they believe 80 MB
is sufficient to specify a human. This has generally been met with
silence. I can understand why, after an even cursory consideration of
[1] and [2]. Moreover, the implications of this for evolutionary theory
and biology are profound.
Anyway, it seems that ID agrees with me. This may not help convince you,
but I'm encouraged that others think this is an issue that needs attention.
If you're unfamiliar, what you may find interesting is ID's proposed solution: an "immaterial genome", with reference to Neoplatonism.
I'm not discounting that position, but do find it surprising! Would this
be a new creationist category, something like Continuous Creation? Some
may have less complimentary suggestions.
Anyway, enjoy (Ron, you may need medical attention after reading these):
https://scienceandculture.com/2025/05/the-immaterial-genome-richard- sternbergs-labor-of-love/
https://scienceandculture.com/2025/04/the-math-behind-the-immaterial- genome/
______________
[1] FROM ONE CELL TO A HUMAN BEING: AN OVERVIEW OF THE PROCESS AND ITS MYSTERIES
*Fertilisation* begins when a sperm and ovum fuse to form a single cell:
the *zygote*. In that moment, a new, genetically unique human organism exists. Yet nothing visible distinguishes this cell from countless
others. What follows is one of the most extraordinary processes known in nature.
---
## 1. Exponential division without growth: cleavage
Within hours, the zygote begins dividing: 1 cell becomes 2, then 4, 8,
16, and so on. These early divisions, called *cleavage*, are remarkable because the total size of the embryo does not increase. Instead, the original cytoplasm is partitioned into ever-smaller cells.
Key features:
* Division is rapid and tightly synchronized.
* Cells remain enclosed in the original outer membrane.
* The embryo reaches ~100 cells in a few days.
*What is striking:*
All cells initially appear equivalent, yet they are already on
trajectories that will lead to radically different fates.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How early asymmetriesrCosubtle differences in molecular concentrations, mechanics, and timingrCobias later cell fate decisions with such reliability.
---
## 2. Self-organisation and implantation: the blastocyst
After several days, the embryo reorganises into a *blastocyst*rCoa hollow structure with:
* an *inner cell mass* (which will become the body),
* and an *outer layer* (which will help form the placenta).
The blastocyst implants into the uterine wall, establishing a
biochemical dialogue with the mother that allows pregnancy to continue.
*What is striking:*
This organisation emerges without a central controller. Cells rCLdeciderCY their roles through local interactions, gene regulation, and physical constraints.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How global structure arises so robustly from local rules, and why implantation succeeds or fails so often despite apparently normal embryos.
---
## 3. The body plan appears: gastrulation
Around the third week, the embryo undergoes *gastrulation*, often called *the most important event in your life*. A simple sheet of cells folds
and rearranges to form three foundational layers:
* *Ectoderm* raA nervous system, skin
* *Mesoderm* raA muscle, bone, blood, heart
* *Endoderm* raA gut, liver, lungs
From this point onward, the basic body axesrCohead to tail, back to
front, left to rightrCoare established.
*What is striking:*
A consistent human body plan emerges from dramatic cellular movements
that look, under a microscope, almost chaotic.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How genetic instructions, chemical gradients, and mechanical forces are integrated in real time to yield precise, repeatable anatomy.
---
## 4. Differentiation and organ formation: organogenesis
Cells now differentiate into hundreds of specialised types and assemble
into organs. Neural cells wire themselves into circuits. Blood vessels branch through tissues. The heart begins beating while still forming.
Cell numbers increase exponentially, eventually reaching *tens of trillions*, yet:
* proportions are maintained,
* leftrCoright symmetry is mostly preserved,
* errors are detected and corrected.
*What is striking:*
No cell rCLknowsrCY the whole plan, yet the whole plan reliably appears.
*What we do not fully understand:*
* How large-scale structures (like vascular trees or neural
connectivity) are specified without explicit blueprints
* How errors are corrected without derailing development
* How timing is coordinated across vastly different scales
---
## 5. Uniqueness emerges
Although humans share a common body plan, no two individuals are the
same. Small genetic differences, epigenetic marks, maternal factors, and environmental influences interact throughout development to shape:
* brain wiring,
* facial structure,
* physiology,
* and predispositions across a lifetime.
*What is striking:*
Uniqueness is not added at the endrCoit emerges continuously, from the
very first divisions.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How early microscopic differences propagate into macroscopic
individuality, especially in the brain.
---
## The deeper wonder
From a single cell, governed by chemistry and physics, arises:
* consciousness,
* memory,
* creativity,
* moral agency.
This happens not through rigid instruction, but through a *deeply interdependent, multiscale process* that blends genetic rules, physical
law, cellular context, and self-organisation.
Despite immense progress in molecular biology and embryology, we still
lack:
* a complete causal map from genes to form,
* a full explanation of robustness and error correction,
* and a unifying theory of biological development comparable to those in physics.
*In short:*
We understand many of the parts. We understand some of the rules.
But how those rules so reliably give rise to a new, unique human being remains one of the most profound and humbling questions in science.
(ChatGPT)
______________
[2] THE HUMAN BODY COMPRISES 11 MAJOR PHYSIOLOGICAL SYSTEMS
Each exhibiting high functional complexity through scale, precision, and cross-system integration.
1. The *nervous system* provides rapid information processing, with ~86 billion neurons and ~10-|rU|rCo10-|rU| synapses enabling millisecond-scale control while consuming ~20% of resting metabolic energy. Humans possess ~2rCo3|u more cortical neurons than great apes, and this difference alone implies orders of magnitude greater combinatorial processing capacity,
given synaptic scaling; human prefrontal cortex expansion to ~25rCo30% of the total cortex gives disproportionately dense long-range connections enabling abstract reasoning, symbolic thought, counterfactual planning,
and recursive language.
2. The *circulatory system* sustains organism-wide transport via
~100,000 km of blood vessels and a heart that beats ~100,000 times per
day, continuously distributing oxygen, nutrients, hormones, and immune cells.
3. The *respiratory system* enables gas exchange through ~300 million alveoli generating ~70 m-# of surface area, processing ~10,000 liters of
air per day.
4. The *digestive system* converts food into bioavailable energy along a
~9 m tract, with ~30rCo40 trillion gut microbes and ~30rCo40 m-# of absorptive surface area in the small intestine.
5. The *endocrine system* coordinates long-range regulation using
hormones effective at picomolarrConanomolar concentrations, exerting organism-wide control through nested feedback loops.
6. The *immune system* provides adaptive defense with ~10-|-|rCo10-|-# active
immune cells and the capacity to generate >10-|-# distinct antibody
variants with long-term memory.
7. The *musculoskeletal system* enables movement and structural support through ~206 bones and ~600 muscles, with continuous mechanical loading
and bone remodeling (~5rCo10% annually).
8. The *integumentary system* forms a multifunctional protective
interface covering ~1.5rCo2.0 m-# and containing ~20 billion cells, integrating mechanical protection, sensation, and immune signaling.
9. The *urinary (renal) system* maintains chemical homeostasis by
filtering ~180 liters of blood per day across ~2 million nephrons, reabsorbing >99% of filtrate with high selectivity.
10. The *reproductive system* supports species continuity through
hormonally regulated gamete production (up to hundreds of millions of
sperm per day in males) and cyclic reproductive physiology in females.
11. The *lymphatic system* complements circulation and immunity by
returning ~2rCo4 liters of interstitial fluid daily and coordinating
immune surveillance across hundreds of lymph nodes.
Taken together, these systems form a deeply interdependent, multiscale biological architecture, in which trillions of components are
dynamically regulated with molecular precision to maintain stability, adaptability, and continuity of the human organism.
(ChatGPT)
On 1/6/2026 8:13 AM, MarkE wrote:
I've recently claimed here that the 80 megabytes of information in the
functional portion of the human genome is wildly insufficient to
specify the development of a human [1] into the system that is us [2].
I've suggested that the "missing" information must be located in the
ovum's cytoplasm, organelles and membrane.
I've directly asked a number of contributors here if they believe 80
MB is sufficient to specify a human. This has generally been met with
silence. I can understand why, after an even cursory consideration of
[1] and [2]. Moreover, the implications of this for evolutionary
theory and biology are profound.
Anyway, it seems that ID agrees with me. This may not help convince
you, but I'm encouraged that others think this is an issue that needs
attention.
If you're unfamiliar, what you may find interesting is ID's proposed
solution: an "immaterial genome", with reference to Neoplatonism.
I'm not discounting that position, but do find it surprising! Would
this be a new creationist category, something like Continuous
Creation? Some may have less complimentary suggestions.
Anyway, enjoy (Ron, you may need medical attention after reading these):
https://scienceandculture.com/2025/05/the-immaterial-genome-richard-
sternbergs-labor-of-love/
https://scienceandculture.com/2025/04/the-math-behind-the-immaterial-
genome/
______________
Nothing to crow about.
The ID perps are just getting around to
admitting that they have been bogusly in denial of something that they
never understood.-a All the denial about the genome and genetic code was just dishonest stupidity.-a They never understood the information that really existed.
All this means is that they should now understand that they have to
start lying about something that isn't fully understood, and that they
can't quantify in order to claim that there is too much of it to have
had to accumulate by natural means.
How can you claim that there is an issue if you do not understand the
issue enough to figure out if there is a problem or not?
The genetic code isn't the information that life depends on.-a It has
always been understood that a cell is more than it's genome, and that
the products of the genetic code depended on the 3 dimensional
information created by the RNA and protein products of genes.-a This
encoded information has to work within what 3 dimensional information
that already exists in the cell.-a All changes have to work within what
is already working.-a This had to be true before the genetic code
evolved.-a All the genetic code has done is that it has improved the efficiency of the reproduction of the cell, and it has grown in function
to direct the development of multicellular organisms from a single cell.
-aThe genome needs a fully functional cell in order to do this, and
every functional addition had to work within what had already been working.
All the ID perps are admitting to is that they never had an argument in
the first place because they never understood what they were lying
about, and they still do not understand what they are lying about in
order to make any type of rational argument.
Just think about this for a moment.-a Sternberg has claimed that he has
been thinking about this issue for a long time.-a He is the ID perp that dishonestly got Meyer's Cambrian explosion nonsense peer reviewed by his chosen reviewers.-a He subsequently quit science (he was never fired nor
did he lose his office space) and quit participating in the scientific endeavor.-a His most recent scientific publication on his web page is
from 2005, and he joined the ID perp scam outfit in 2007 in order to
support the bait and switch scam.-a He could not use his scientific expertise to support the ID scam, so he spent around 8 years messing
with gaps in the whale fossil record (he was an invertebrate taxonomist,
but decided to prevaricate about whale evolution).-a Behe destroyed his
gap stupidity by claiming that whale evolution was just the type of evolution expected to have occurred by Darwinian mechanisms in 2014.
Behe was really claiming that his designer would have done it some other way.-a Behe tried to denigrate that type of biological evolution by
calling it "devolution" but evolution is evolution.-a Sternberg had to
start working on something new, so he is getting around to admitting
that the ID perps have never been lying about what they should have been lying about in the first place.
Ron Okimoto
[1] FROM ONE CELL TO A HUMAN BEING: AN OVERVIEW OF THE PROCESS AND ITS
MYSTERIES
*Fertilisation* begins when a sperm and ovum fuse to form a single
cell: the *zygote*. In that moment, a new, genetically unique human
organism exists. Yet nothing visible distinguishes this cell from
countless others. What follows is one of the most extraordinary
processes known in nature.
---
## 1. Exponential division without growth: cleavage
Within hours, the zygote begins dividing: 1 cell becomes 2, then 4, 8,
16, and so on. These early divisions, called *cleavage*, are
remarkable because the total size of the embryo does not increase.
Instead, the original cytoplasm is partitioned into ever-smaller cells.
Key features:
* Division is rapid and tightly synchronized.
* Cells remain enclosed in the original outer membrane.
* The embryo reaches ~100 cells in a few days.
*What is striking:*
All cells initially appear equivalent, yet they are already on
trajectories that will lead to radically different fates.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How early asymmetriesrCosubtle differences in molecular concentrations,
mechanics, and timingrCobias later cell fate decisions with such
reliability.
---
## 2. Self-organisation and implantation: the blastocyst
After several days, the embryo reorganises into a *blastocyst*rCoa
hollow structure with:
* an *inner cell mass* (which will become the body),
* and an *outer layer* (which will help form the placenta).
The blastocyst implants into the uterine wall, establishing a
biochemical dialogue with the mother that allows pregnancy to continue.
*What is striking:*
This organisation emerges without a central controller. Cells rCLdeciderCY >> their roles through local interactions, gene regulation, and physical
constraints.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How global structure arises so robustly from local rules, and why
implantation succeeds or fails so often despite apparently normal
embryos.
---
## 3. The body plan appears: gastrulation
Around the third week, the embryo undergoes *gastrulation*, often
called *the most important event in your life*. A simple sheet of
cells folds and rearranges to form three foundational layers:
* *Ectoderm* raA nervous system, skin
* *Mesoderm* raA muscle, bone, blood, heart
* *Endoderm* raA gut, liver, lungs
-aFrom this point onward, the basic body axesrCohead to tail, back to
front, left to rightrCoare established.
*What is striking:*
A consistent human body plan emerges from dramatic cellular movements
that look, under a microscope, almost chaotic.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How genetic instructions, chemical gradients, and mechanical forces
are integrated in real time to yield precise, repeatable anatomy.
---
## 4. Differentiation and organ formation: organogenesis
Cells now differentiate into hundreds of specialised types and
assemble into organs. Neural cells wire themselves into circuits.
Blood vessels branch through tissues. The heart begins beating while
still forming.
Cell numbers increase exponentially, eventually reaching *tens of
trillions*, yet:
* proportions are maintained,
* leftrCoright symmetry is mostly preserved,
* errors are detected and corrected.
*What is striking:*
No cell rCLknowsrCY the whole plan, yet the whole plan reliably appears.
*What we do not fully understand:*
* How large-scale structures (like vascular trees or neural
connectivity) are specified without explicit blueprints
* How errors are corrected without derailing development
* How timing is coordinated across vastly different scales
---
## 5. Uniqueness emerges
Although humans share a common body plan, no two individuals are the
same. Small genetic differences, epigenetic marks, maternal factors,
and environmental influences interact throughout development to shape:
* brain wiring,
* facial structure,
* physiology,
* and predispositions across a lifetime.
*What is striking:*
Uniqueness is not added at the endrCoit emerges continuously, from the
very first divisions.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How early microscopic differences propagate into macroscopic
individuality, especially in the brain.
---
## The deeper wonder
-aFrom a single cell, governed by chemistry and physics, arises:
* consciousness,
* memory,
* creativity,
* moral agency.
This happens not through rigid instruction, but through a *deeply
interdependent, multiscale process* that blends genetic rules,
physical law, cellular context, and self-organisation.
Despite immense progress in molecular biology and embryology, we still
lack:
* a complete causal map from genes to form,
* a full explanation of robustness and error correction,
* and a unifying theory of biological development comparable to those
in physics.
*In short:*
We understand many of the parts. We understand some of the rules.
But how those rules so reliably give rise to a new, unique human being
remains one of the most profound and humbling questions in science.
(ChatGPT)
______________
[2] THE HUMAN BODY COMPRISES 11 MAJOR PHYSIOLOGICAL SYSTEMS
Each exhibiting high functional complexity through scale, precision,
and cross-system integration.
1. The *nervous system* provides rapid information processing, with
~86 billion neurons and ~10-|rU|rCo10-|rU| synapses enabling millisecond-scale
control while consuming ~20% of resting metabolic energy. Humans
possess ~2rCo3|u more cortical neurons than great apes, and this
difference alone implies orders of magnitude greater combinatorial
processing capacity, given synaptic scaling; human prefrontal cortex
expansion to ~25rCo30% of the total cortex gives disproportionately
dense long-range connections enabling abstract reasoning, symbolic
thought, counterfactual planning, and recursive language.
2. The *circulatory system* sustains organism-wide transport via
~100,000 km of blood vessels and a heart that beats ~100,000 times per
day, continuously distributing oxygen, nutrients, hormones, and immune
cells.
3. The *respiratory system* enables gas exchange through ~300 million
alveoli generating ~70 m-# of surface area, processing ~10,000 liters
of air per day.
4. The *digestive system* converts food into bioavailable energy along
a ~9 m tract, with ~30rCo40 trillion gut microbes and ~30rCo40 m-# of
absorptive surface area in the small intestine.
5. The *endocrine system* coordinates long-range regulation using
hormones effective at picomolarrConanomolar concentrations, exerting
organism-wide control through nested feedback loops.
6. The *immune system* provides adaptive defense with ~10-|-|rCo10-|-#
active immune cells and the capacity to generate >10-|-# distinct
antibody variants with long-term memory.
7. The *musculoskeletal system* enables movement and structural
support through ~206 bones and ~600 muscles, with continuous
mechanical loading and bone remodeling (~5rCo10% annually).
8. The *integumentary system* forms a multifunctional protective
interface covering ~1.5rCo2.0 m-# and containing ~20 billion cells,
integrating mechanical protection, sensation, and immune signaling.
9. The *urinary (renal) system* maintains chemical homeostasis by
filtering ~180 liters of blood per day across ~2 million nephrons,
reabsorbing >99% of filtrate with high selectivity.
10. The *reproductive system* supports species continuity through
hormonally regulated gamete production (up to hundreds of millions of
sperm per day in males) and cyclic reproductive physiology in females.
11. The *lymphatic system* complements circulation and immunity by
returning ~2rCo4 liters of interstitial fluid daily and coordinating
immune surveillance across hundreds of lymph nodes.
Taken together, these systems form a deeply interdependent, multiscale
biological architecture, in which trillions of components are
dynamically regulated with molecular precision to maintain stability,
adaptability, and continuity of the human organism.
(ChatGPT)
I thought I would point out something in your presentation that is not addressed in your argument.
Note the things mentioned in the "*What is striking:*" and "*What we do
not fully understand:*" sections. Almost all of it is relating to non- genetic effects on development. These are *all* sources of large
quantities of information. That we do not currently know exactly how
most of this non-genetic information interacts with the genetic
information is an important topic of developmental research but it
answers your question about the *amount* of information involved in development.
*What is striking:*
This organisation emerges without a central controller. Cells
rCLdeciderCY their roles through local interactions, gene regulation,
and physical constraints.
On 2026-01-06 8:36 a.m., MarkE wrote:
On 7/01/2026 1:13 am, MarkE wrote:
I've recently claimed here that the 80 megabytes of information in
the functional portion of the human genome is wildly insufficient to
specify the development of a human [1] into the system that is us
[2]. I've suggested that the "missing" information must be located in
the ovum's cytoplasm, organelles and membrane.
PS Here's a related article on challenges explaining embryologic
development:
"Though speculative, the model addresses the poignant absence in the
literature of any plausible account of the origin of vertebrate
morphology."
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0079610716300542
I've directly asked a number of contributors here if they believe 80
MB is sufficient to specify a human. This has generally been met with
silence. I can understand why, after an even cursory consideration of
[1] and [2]. Moreover, the implications of this for evolutionary
theory and biology are profound.
Anyway, it seems that ID agrees with me. This may not help convince
you, but I'm encouraged that others think this is an issue that needs
attention.
If you're unfamiliar, what you may find interesting is ID's proposed
solution: an "immaterial genome", with reference to Neoplatonism.
I'm not discounting that position, but do find it surprising! Would
this be a new creationist category, something like Continuous
Creation? Some may have less complimentary suggestions.
Anyway, enjoy (Ron, you may need medical attention after reading these): >>>
https://scienceandculture.com/2025/05/the-immaterial-genome-richard-
sternbergs-labor-of-love/
https://scienceandculture.com/2025/04/the-math-behind-the-immaterial-
genome/
______________
[1] FROM ONE CELL TO A HUMAN BEING: AN OVERVIEW OF THE PROCESS AND
ITS MYSTERIES
*Fertilisation* begins when a sperm and ovum fuse to form a single
cell: the *zygote*. In that moment, a new, genetically unique human
organism exists. Yet nothing visible distinguishes this cell from
countless others. What follows is one of the most extraordinary
processes known in nature.
---
## 1. Exponential division without growth: cleavage
Within hours, the zygote begins dividing: 1 cell becomes 2, then 4,
8, 16, and so on. These early divisions, called *cleavage*, are
remarkable because the total size of the embryo does not increase.
Instead, the original cytoplasm is partitioned into ever-smaller cells.
Key features:
* Division is rapid and tightly synchronized.
* Cells remain enclosed in the original outer membrane.
* The embryo reaches ~100 cells in a few days.
*What is striking:*
All cells initially appear equivalent, yet they are already on
trajectories that will lead to radically different fates.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How early asymmetriesrCosubtle differences in molecular concentrations, >>> mechanics, and timingrCobias later cell fate decisions with such
reliability.
---
## 2. Self-organisation and implantation: the blastocyst
After several days, the embryo reorganises into a *blastocyst*rCoa
hollow structure with:
* an *inner cell mass* (which will become the body),
* and an *outer layer* (which will help form the placenta).
The blastocyst implants into the uterine wall, establishing a
biochemical dialogue with the mother that allows pregnancy to continue.
*What is striking:*
This organisation emerges without a central controller. Cells
rCLdeciderCY their roles through local interactions, gene regulation, and >>> physical constraints.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How global structure arises so robustly from local rules, and why
implantation succeeds or fails so often despite apparently normal
embryos.
---
## 3. The body plan appears: gastrulation
Around the third week, the embryo undergoes *gastrulation*, often
called *the most important event in your life*. A simple sheet of
cells folds and rearranges to form three foundational layers:
* *Ectoderm* raA nervous system, skin
* *Mesoderm* raA muscle, bone, blood, heart
* *Endoderm* raA gut, liver, lungs
-aFrom this point onward, the basic body axesrCohead to tail, back to
front, left to rightrCoare established.
*What is striking:*
A consistent human body plan emerges from dramatic cellular movements
that look, under a microscope, almost chaotic.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How genetic instructions, chemical gradients, and mechanical forces
are integrated in real time to yield precise, repeatable anatomy.
---
## 4. Differentiation and organ formation: organogenesis
Cells now differentiate into hundreds of specialised types and
assemble into organs. Neural cells wire themselves into circuits.
Blood vessels branch through tissues. The heart begins beating while
still forming.
Cell numbers increase exponentially, eventually reaching *tens of
trillions*, yet:
* proportions are maintained,
* leftrCoright symmetry is mostly preserved,
* errors are detected and corrected.
*What is striking:*
No cell rCLknowsrCY the whole plan, yet the whole plan reliably appears. >>>
*What we do not fully understand:*
* How large-scale structures (like vascular trees or neural
connectivity) are specified without explicit blueprints
* How errors are corrected without derailing development
* How timing is coordinated across vastly different scales
---
## 5. Uniqueness emerges
Although humans share a common body plan, no two individuals are the
same. Small genetic differences, epigenetic marks, maternal factors,
and environmental influences interact throughout development to shape:
* brain wiring,
* facial structure,
* physiology,
* and predispositions across a lifetime.
*What is striking:*
Uniqueness is not added at the endrCoit emerges continuously, from the
very first divisions.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How early microscopic differences propagate into macroscopic
individuality, especially in the brain.
---
## The deeper wonder
-aFrom a single cell, governed by chemistry and physics, arises:
* consciousness,
* memory,
* creativity,
* moral agency.
This happens not through rigid instruction, but through a *deeply
interdependent, multiscale process* that blends genetic rules,
physical law, cellular context, and self-organisation.
Despite immense progress in molecular biology and embryology, we
still lack:
* a complete causal map from genes to form,
* a full explanation of robustness and error correction,
* and a unifying theory of biological development comparable to those
in physics.
*In short:*
We understand many of the parts. We understand some of the rules.
But how those rules so reliably give rise to a new, unique human
being remains one of the most profound and humbling questions in
science.
(ChatGPT)
______________
[2] THE HUMAN BODY COMPRISES 11 MAJOR PHYSIOLOGICAL SYSTEMS
Each exhibiting high functional complexity through scale, precision,
and cross-system integration.
1. The *nervous system* provides rapid information processing, with
~86 billion neurons and ~10-|rU|rCo10-|rU| synapses enabling millisecond- >>> scale control while consuming ~20% of resting metabolic energy.
Humans possess ~2rCo3|u more cortical neurons than great apes, and this >>> difference alone implies orders of magnitude greater combinatorial
processing capacity, given synaptic scaling; human prefrontal cortex
expansion to ~25rCo30% of the total cortex gives disproportionately
dense long-range connections enabling abstract reasoning, symbolic
thought, counterfactual planning, and recursive language.
2. The *circulatory system* sustains organism-wide transport via
~100,000 km of blood vessels and a heart that beats ~100,000 times
per day, continuously distributing oxygen, nutrients, hormones, and
immune cells.
3. The *respiratory system* enables gas exchange through ~300 million
alveoli generating ~70 m-# of surface area, processing ~10,000 liters
of air per day.
4. The *digestive system* converts food into bioavailable energy
along a ~9 m tract, with ~30rCo40 trillion gut microbes and ~30rCo40 m-# >>> of absorptive surface area in the small intestine.
5. The *endocrine system* coordinates long-range regulation using
hormones effective at picomolarrConanomolar concentrations, exerting
organism-wide control through nested feedback loops.
6. The *immune system* provides adaptive defense with ~10-|-|rCo10-|-#
active immune cells and the capacity to generate >10-|-# distinct
antibody variants with long-term memory.
7. The *musculoskeletal system* enables movement and structural
support through ~206 bones and ~600 muscles, with continuous
mechanical loading and bone remodeling (~5rCo10% annually).
8. The *integumentary system* forms a multifunctional protective
interface covering ~1.5rCo2.0 m-# and containing ~20 billion cells,
integrating mechanical protection, sensation, and immune signaling.
9. The *urinary (renal) system* maintains chemical homeostasis by
filtering ~180 liters of blood per day across ~2 million nephrons,
reabsorbing >99% of filtrate with high selectivity.
10. The *reproductive system* supports species continuity through
hormonally regulated gamete production (up to hundreds of millions of
sperm per day in males) and cyclic reproductive physiology in females.
11. The *lymphatic system* complements circulation and immunity by
returning ~2rCo4 liters of interstitial fluid daily and coordinating
immune surveillance across hundreds of lymph nodes.
Taken together, these systems form a deeply interdependent,
multiscale biological architecture, in which trillions of components
are dynamically regulated with molecular precision to maintain
stability, adaptability, and continuity of the human organism.
(ChatGPT)
Here is the strongest argument for the ID scam.
https://scienceandculture.com/2026/01/the-strongest-argument-for- intelligent-design-is-also-the-simplest/
You just have to have no knowledge of physics, chemistry nor how
biological evolution works to think that it is any valid argument at all.
Ron Okimoto
I've recently claimed here that the 80 megabytes of information in the >functional portion of the human genome is wildly insufficient to specifyThat silence is the sound of one hand clapping, as all wait for you to
the development of a human [1] into the system that is us [2]. I've >suggested that the "missing" information must be located in the ovum's >cytoplasm, organelles and membrane.
I've directly asked a number of contributors here if they believe 80 MB
is sufficient to specify a human. This has generally been met with
silence. I can understand why, after an even cursory consideration of
[1] and [2]. Moreover, the implications of this for evolutionary theory
and biology are profound.
Anyway, it seems that ID agrees with me. This may not help convince you,
but I'm encouraged that others think this is an issue that needs attention.
If you're unfamiliar, what you may find interesting is ID's proposed >solution: an "immaterial genome", with reference to Neoplatonism.
I'm not discounting that position, but do find it surprising! Would this
be a new creationist category, something like Continuous Creation? Some
may have less complimentary suggestions.
Anyway, enjoy (Ron, you may need medical attention after reading these):
https://scienceandculture.com/2025/05/the-immaterial-genome-richard-sternbergs-labor-of-love/
https://scienceandculture.com/2025/04/the-math-behind-the-immaterial-genome/
______________
[1] FROM ONE CELL TO A HUMAN BEING: AN OVERVIEW OF THE PROCESS AND ITS >MYSTERIES
*Fertilisation* begins when a sperm and ovum fuse to form a single cell:
the *zygote*. In that moment, a new, genetically unique human organism >exists. Yet nothing visible distinguishes this cell from countless
others. What follows is one of the most extraordinary processes known in >nature.
---
## 1. Exponential division without growth: cleavage
Within hours, the zygote begins dividing: 1 cell becomes 2, then 4, 8,
16, and so on. These early divisions, called *cleavage*, are remarkable >because the total size of the embryo does not increase. Instead, the >original cytoplasm is partitioned into ever-smaller cells.
Key features:
* Division is rapid and tightly synchronized.
* Cells remain enclosed in the original outer membrane.
* The embryo reaches ~100 cells in a few days.
*What is striking:*
All cells initially appear equivalent, yet they are already on
trajectories that will lead to radically different fates.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How early asymmetriesrCosubtle differences in molecular concentrations, >mechanics, and timingrCobias later cell fate decisions with such reliability.
---
## 2. Self-organisation and implantation: the blastocyst
After several days, the embryo reorganises into a *blastocyst*rCoa hollow >structure with:
* an *inner cell mass* (which will become the body),
* and an *outer layer* (which will help form the placenta).
The blastocyst implants into the uterine wall, establishing a
biochemical dialogue with the mother that allows pregnancy to continue.
*What is striking:*
This organisation emerges without a central controller. Cells rCLdeciderCY >their roles through local interactions, gene regulation, and physical >constraints.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How global structure arises so robustly from local rules, and why >implantation succeeds or fails so often despite apparently normal embryos.
---
## 3. The body plan appears: gastrulation
Around the third week, the embryo undergoes *gastrulation*, often called >*the most important event in your life*. A simple sheet of cells folds
and rearranges to form three foundational layers:
* *Ectoderm* ? nervous system, skin
* *Mesoderm* ? muscle, bone, blood, heart
* *Endoderm* ? gut, liver, lungs
From this point onward, the basic body axesrCohead to tail, back to
front, left to rightrCoare established.
*What is striking:*
A consistent human body plan emerges from dramatic cellular movements
that look, under a microscope, almost chaotic.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How genetic instructions, chemical gradients, and mechanical forces are >integrated in real time to yield precise, repeatable anatomy.
---
## 4. Differentiation and organ formation: organogenesis
Cells now differentiate into hundreds of specialised types and assemble
into organs. Neural cells wire themselves into circuits. Blood vessels >branch through tissues. The heart begins beating while still forming.
Cell numbers increase exponentially, eventually reaching *tens of >trillions*, yet:
* proportions are maintained,
* leftrCoright symmetry is mostly preserved,
* errors are detected and corrected.
*What is striking:*
No cell rCLknowsrCY the whole plan, yet the whole plan reliably appears.
*What we do not fully understand:*
* How large-scale structures (like vascular trees or neural
connectivity) are specified without explicit blueprints
* How errors are corrected without derailing development
* How timing is coordinated across vastly different scales
---
## 5. Uniqueness emerges
Although humans share a common body plan, no two individuals are the
same. Small genetic differences, epigenetic marks, maternal factors, and >environmental influences interact throughout development to shape:
* brain wiring,
* facial structure,
* physiology,
* and predispositions across a lifetime.
*What is striking:*
Uniqueness is not added at the endrCoit emerges continuously, from the
very first divisions.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How early microscopic differences propagate into macroscopic
individuality, especially in the brain.
---
## The deeper wonder
From a single cell, governed by chemistry and physics, arises:
* consciousness,
* memory,
* creativity,
* moral agency.
This happens not through rigid instruction, but through a *deeply >interdependent, multiscale process* that blends genetic rules, physical
law, cellular context, and self-organisation.
Despite immense progress in molecular biology and embryology, we still lack:
* a complete causal map from genes to form,
* a full explanation of robustness and error correction,
* and a unifying theory of biological development comparable to those in >physics.
*In short:*
We understand many of the parts. We understand some of the rules.
But how those rules so reliably give rise to a new, unique human being >remains one of the most profound and humbling questions in science.
(ChatGPT)
______________
[2] THE HUMAN BODY COMPRISES 11 MAJOR PHYSIOLOGICAL SYSTEMS--
Each exhibiting high functional complexity through scale, precision, and >cross-system integration.
1. The *nervous system* provides rapid information processing, with ~86 >billion neurons and ~10-|?rCo10-|? synapses enabling millisecond-scale >control while consuming ~20% of resting metabolic energy. Humans possess >~2rCo3|u more cortical neurons than great apes, and this difference alone >implies orders of magnitude greater combinatorial processing capacity,
given synaptic scaling; human prefrontal cortex expansion to ~25rCo30% of >the total cortex gives disproportionately dense long-range connections >enabling abstract reasoning, symbolic thought, counterfactual planning,
and recursive language.
2. The *circulatory system* sustains organism-wide transport via
~100,000 km of blood vessels and a heart that beats ~100,000 times per
day, continuously distributing oxygen, nutrients, hormones, and immune >cells.
3. The *respiratory system* enables gas exchange through ~300 million >alveoli generating ~70 m-# of surface area, processing ~10,000 liters of
air per day.
4. The *digestive system* converts food into bioavailable energy along a
~9 m tract, with ~30rCo40 trillion gut microbes and ~30rCo40 m-# of >absorptive surface area in the small intestine.
5. The *endocrine system* coordinates long-range regulation using
hormones effective at picomolarrConanomolar concentrations, exerting >organism-wide control through nested feedback loops.
6. The *immune system* provides adaptive defense with ~10-|-|rCo10-|-# active >immune cells and the capacity to generate >10-|-# distinct antibody
variants with long-term memory.
7. The *musculoskeletal system* enables movement and structural support >through ~206 bones and ~600 muscles, with continuous mechanical loading
and bone remodeling (~5rCo10% annually).
8. The *integumentary system* forms a multifunctional protective
interface covering ~1.5rCo2.0 m-# and containing ~20 billion cells, >integrating mechanical protection, sensation, and immune signaling.
9. The *urinary (renal) system* maintains chemical homeostasis by
filtering ~180 liters of blood per day across ~2 million nephrons, >reabsorbing >99% of filtrate with high selectivity.
10. The *reproductive system* supports species continuity through
hormonally regulated gamete production (up to hundreds of millions of
sperm per day in males) and cyclic reproductive physiology in females.
11. The *lymphatic system* complements circulation and immunity by
returning ~2rCo4 liters of interstitial fluid daily and coordinating
immune surveillance across hundreds of lymph nodes.
Taken together, these systems form a deeply interdependent, multiscale >biological architecture, in which trillions of components are
dynamically regulated with molecular precision to maintain stability, >adaptability, and continuity of the human organism.
(ChatGPT)
On Wed, 7 Jan 2026 01:13:42 +1100, MarkE <me22over7@gmail.com> wrote:
I've recently claimed here that the 80 megabytes of information in the
functional portion of the human genome is wildly insufficient to specify
the development of a human [1] into the system that is us [2]. I've
suggested that the "missing" information must be located in the ovum's
cytoplasm, organelles and membrane.
I've directly asked a number of contributors here if they believe 80 MB
is sufficient to specify a human. This has generally been met with
silence. I can understand why, after an even cursory consideration of
[1] and [2]. Moreover, the implications of this for evolutionary theory
and biology are profound.
That silence is the sound of one hand clapping, as all wait for you to
say on what basis you think 80 MB is *insufficient* to specify a
human.
Anyway, it seems that ID agrees with me. This may not help convince you,
but I'm encouraged that others think this is an issue that needs attention. >>
If you're unfamiliar, what you may find interesting is ID's proposed
solution: an "immaterial genome", with reference to Neoplatonism.
I'm not discounting that position, but do find it surprising! Would this
be a new creationist category, something like Continuous Creation? Some
may have less complimentary suggestions.
Anyway, enjoy (Ron, you may need medical attention after reading these):
https://scienceandculture.com/2025/05/the-immaterial-genome-richard-sternbergs-labor-of-love/
https://scienceandculture.com/2025/04/the-math-behind-the-immaterial-genome/ >>
______________
[1] FROM ONE CELL TO A HUMAN BEING: AN OVERVIEW OF THE PROCESS AND ITS
MYSTERIES
*Fertilisation* begins when a sperm and ovum fuse to form a single cell:
the *zygote*. In that moment, a new, genetically unique human organism
exists. Yet nothing visible distinguishes this cell from countless
others. What follows is one of the most extraordinary processes known in
nature.
---
## 1. Exponential division without growth: cleavage
Within hours, the zygote begins dividing: 1 cell becomes 2, then 4, 8,
16, and so on. These early divisions, called *cleavage*, are remarkable
because the total size of the embryo does not increase. Instead, the
original cytoplasm is partitioned into ever-smaller cells.
Key features:
* Division is rapid and tightly synchronized.
* Cells remain enclosed in the original outer membrane.
* The embryo reaches ~100 cells in a few days.
*What is striking:*
All cells initially appear equivalent, yet they are already on
trajectories that will lead to radically different fates.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How early asymmetriesrCosubtle differences in molecular concentrations,
mechanics, and timingrCobias later cell fate decisions with such reliability.
---
## 2. Self-organisation and implantation: the blastocyst
After several days, the embryo reorganises into a *blastocyst*rCoa hollow
structure with:
* an *inner cell mass* (which will become the body),
* and an *outer layer* (which will help form the placenta).
The blastocyst implants into the uterine wall, establishing a
biochemical dialogue with the mother that allows pregnancy to continue.
*What is striking:*
This organisation emerges without a central controller. Cells rCLdeciderCY >> their roles through local interactions, gene regulation, and physical
constraints.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How global structure arises so robustly from local rules, and why
implantation succeeds or fails so often despite apparently normal embryos. >>
---
## 3. The body plan appears: gastrulation
Around the third week, the embryo undergoes *gastrulation*, often called
*the most important event in your life*. A simple sheet of cells folds
and rearranges to form three foundational layers:
* *Ectoderm* ? nervous system, skin
* *Mesoderm* ? muscle, bone, blood, heart
* *Endoderm* ? gut, liver, lungs
From this point onward, the basic body axesrCohead to tail, back to
front, left to rightrCoare established.
*What is striking:*
A consistent human body plan emerges from dramatic cellular movements
that look, under a microscope, almost chaotic.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How genetic instructions, chemical gradients, and mechanical forces are
integrated in real time to yield precise, repeatable anatomy.
---
## 4. Differentiation and organ formation: organogenesis
Cells now differentiate into hundreds of specialised types and assemble
into organs. Neural cells wire themselves into circuits. Blood vessels
branch through tissues. The heart begins beating while still forming.
Cell numbers increase exponentially, eventually reaching *tens of
trillions*, yet:
* proportions are maintained,
* leftrCoright symmetry is mostly preserved,
* errors are detected and corrected.
*What is striking:*
No cell rCLknowsrCY the whole plan, yet the whole plan reliably appears.
*What we do not fully understand:*
* How large-scale structures (like vascular trees or neural
connectivity) are specified without explicit blueprints
* How errors are corrected without derailing development
* How timing is coordinated across vastly different scales
---
## 5. Uniqueness emerges
Although humans share a common body plan, no two individuals are the
same. Small genetic differences, epigenetic marks, maternal factors, and
environmental influences interact throughout development to shape:
* brain wiring,
* facial structure,
* physiology,
* and predispositions across a lifetime.
*What is striking:*
Uniqueness is not added at the endrCoit emerges continuously, from the
very first divisions.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How early microscopic differences propagate into macroscopic
individuality, especially in the brain.
---
## The deeper wonder
From a single cell, governed by chemistry and physics, arises:
* consciousness,
* memory,
* creativity,
* moral agency.
This happens not through rigid instruction, but through a *deeply
interdependent, multiscale process* that blends genetic rules, physical
law, cellular context, and self-organisation.
Despite immense progress in molecular biology and embryology, we still lack: >>
* a complete causal map from genes to form,
* a full explanation of robustness and error correction,
* and a unifying theory of biological development comparable to those in
physics.
*In short:*
We understand many of the parts. We understand some of the rules.
But how those rules so reliably give rise to a new, unique human being
remains one of the most profound and humbling questions in science.
(ChatGPT)
______________
[2] THE HUMAN BODY COMPRISES 11 MAJOR PHYSIOLOGICAL SYSTEMS
Each exhibiting high functional complexity through scale, precision, and
cross-system integration.
1. The *nervous system* provides rapid information processing, with ~86
billion neurons and ~10-|?rCo10-|? synapses enabling millisecond-scale
control while consuming ~20% of resting metabolic energy. Humans possess
~2rCo3|u more cortical neurons than great apes, and this difference alone
implies orders of magnitude greater combinatorial processing capacity,
given synaptic scaling; human prefrontal cortex expansion to ~25rCo30% of
the total cortex gives disproportionately dense long-range connections
enabling abstract reasoning, symbolic thought, counterfactual planning,
and recursive language.
2. The *circulatory system* sustains organism-wide transport via
~100,000 km of blood vessels and a heart that beats ~100,000 times per
day, continuously distributing oxygen, nutrients, hormones, and immune
cells.
3. The *respiratory system* enables gas exchange through ~300 million
alveoli generating ~70 m-# of surface area, processing ~10,000 liters of
air per day.
4. The *digestive system* converts food into bioavailable energy along a
~9 m tract, with ~30rCo40 trillion gut microbes and ~30rCo40 m-# of
absorptive surface area in the small intestine.
5. The *endocrine system* coordinates long-range regulation using
hormones effective at picomolarrConanomolar concentrations, exerting
organism-wide control through nested feedback loops.
6. The *immune system* provides adaptive defense with ~10-|-|rCo10-|-# active
immune cells and the capacity to generate >10-|-# distinct antibody
variants with long-term memory.
7. The *musculoskeletal system* enables movement and structural support
through ~206 bones and ~600 muscles, with continuous mechanical loading
and bone remodeling (~5rCo10% annually).
8. The *integumentary system* forms a multifunctional protective
interface covering ~1.5rCo2.0 m-# and containing ~20 billion cells,
integrating mechanical protection, sensation, and immune signaling.
9. The *urinary (renal) system* maintains chemical homeostasis by
filtering ~180 liters of blood per day across ~2 million nephrons,
reabsorbing >99% of filtrate with high selectivity.
10. The *reproductive system* supports species continuity through
hormonally regulated gamete production (up to hundreds of millions of
sperm per day in males) and cyclic reproductive physiology in females.
11. The *lymphatic system* complements circulation and immunity by
returning ~2rCo4 liters of interstitial fluid daily and coordinating
immune surveillance across hundreds of lymph nodes.
Taken together, these systems form a deeply interdependent, multiscale
biological architecture, in which trillions of components are
dynamically regulated with molecular precision to maintain stability,
adaptability, and continuity of the human organism.
(ChatGPT)
On 7/01/2026 4:58 am, DB Cates wrote:
I thought I would point out something in your presentation that is not
addressed in your argument.
Note the things mentioned in the "*What is striking:*" and "*What we
do not fully understand:*" sections. Almost all of it is relating to
non- genetic effects on development. These are *all* sources of large
quantities of information. That we do not currently know exactly how
most of this non-genetic information interacts with the genetic
information is an important topic of developmental research but it
answers your question about the *amount* of information involved in
development.
Your causality is back-to-front: You say, "These are *all* sources of
large quantities of information." Rather, these are all *expressions* of large quantities of information, not *sources*.
For example:
*What is striking:*
This organisation emerges without a central controller. Cells
rCLdeciderCY their roles through local interactions, gene regulation,
and physical constraints.
Where did the "gene regulation and physical constraints" come from,
which cells use to rCLdeciderCY their roles? From information in the zygote.
Etc.This is due to the 'code' - [cell(s) told to divide]
On 2026-01-06 8:36 a.m., MarkE wrote:
On 7/01/2026 1:13 am, MarkE wrote:
I've recently claimed here that the 80 megabytes of information in
the functional portion of the human genome is wildly insufficient to
specify the development of a human [1] into the system that is us
[2]. I've suggested that the "missing" information must be located
in the ovum's cytoplasm, organelles and membrane.
PS Here's a related article on challenges explaining embryologic
development:
"Though speculative, the model addresses the poignant absence in the
literature of any plausible account of the origin of vertebrate
morphology."
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0079610716300542
I've directly asked a number of contributors here if they believe 80
MB is sufficient to specify a human. This has generally been met
with silence. I can understand why, after an even cursory
consideration of [1] and [2]. Moreover, the implications of this for
evolutionary theory and biology are profound.
Anyway, it seems that ID agrees with me. This may not help convince
you, but I'm encouraged that others think this is an issue that
needs attention.
If you're unfamiliar, what you may find interesting is ID's proposed
solution: an "immaterial genome", with reference to Neoplatonism.
I'm not discounting that position, but do find it surprising! Would
this be a new creationist category, something like Continuous
Creation? Some may have less complimentary suggestions.
Anyway, enjoy (Ron, you may need medical attention after reading
these):
https://scienceandculture.com/2025/05/the-immaterial-genome-richard-
sternbergs-labor-of-love/
https://scienceandculture.com/2025/04/the-math-behind-the-
immaterial- genome/
______________
[1] FROM ONE CELL TO A HUMAN BEING: AN OVERVIEW OF THE PROCESS AND
ITS MYSTERIES
*Fertilisation* begins when a sperm and ovum fuse to form a single
cell: the *zygote*. In that moment, a new, genetically unique human
organism exists. Yet nothing visible distinguishes this cell from
countless others. What follows is one of the most extraordinary
processes known in nature.
---
## 1. Exponential division without growth: cleavage
Within hours, the zygote begins dividing: 1 cell becomes 2, then 4,
8, 16, and so on. These early divisions, called *cleavage*, are
remarkable because the total size of the embryo does not increase.
Instead, the original cytoplasm is partitioned into ever-smaller cells. >>>>
Now some of the cells are still in contact with the outer membrane andKey features:
* Division is rapid and tightly synchronized.
* Cells remain enclosed in the original outer membrane.
* The embryo reaches ~100 cells in a few days.
*What is striking:*
All cells initially appear equivalent, yet they are already on
trajectories that will lead to radically different fates.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How early asymmetriesrCosubtle differences in molecular
concentrations, mechanics, and timingrCobias later cell fate decisions >>>> with such reliability.
---
## 2. Self-organisation and implantation: the blastocyst
After several days, the embryo reorganises into a *blastocyst*rCoa
hollow structure with:
* an *inner cell mass* (which will become the body),
* and an *outer layer* (which will help form the placenta).
The blastocyst implants into the uterine wall, establishing a
biochemical dialogue with the mother that allows pregnancy to continue. >>>>
*What is striking:*
This organisation emerges without a central controller. Cells
rCLdeciderCY their roles through local interactions, gene regulation, >>>> and physical constraints.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How global structure arises so robustly from local rules, and why
implantation succeeds or fails so often despite apparently normal
embryos.
---
## 3. The body plan appears: gastrulation
Around the third week, the embryo undergoes *gastrulation*, often
called *the most important event in your life*. A simple sheet of
cells folds and rearranges to form three foundational layers:
* *Ectoderm* raA nervous system, skin
* *Mesoderm* raA muscle, bone, blood, heart
* *Endoderm* raA gut, liver, lungs
-aFrom this point onward, the basic body axesrCohead to tail, back to >>>> front, left to rightrCoare established.
*What is striking:*
A consistent human body plan emerges from dramatic cellular
movements that look, under a microscope, almost chaotic.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How genetic instructions, chemical gradients, and mechanical forces
are integrated in real time to yield precise, repeatable anatomy.
---
## 4. Differentiation and organ formation: organogenesis
Cells now differentiate into hundreds of specialised types and
assemble into organs. Neural cells wire themselves into circuits.
Blood vessels branch through tissues. The heart begins beating while
still forming.
Cell numbers increase exponentially, eventually reaching *tens of
trillions*, yet:
* proportions are maintained,
* leftrCoright symmetry is mostly preserved,
* errors are detected and corrected.
*What is striking:*
No cell rCLknowsrCY the whole plan, yet the whole plan reliably appears. >>>>
*What we do not fully understand:*
* How large-scale structures (like vascular trees or neural
connectivity) are specified without explicit blueprints
* How errors are corrected without derailing development
* How timing is coordinated across vastly different scales
---
## 5. Uniqueness emerges
Although humans share a common body plan, no two individuals are the
same. Small genetic differences, epigenetic marks, maternal factors,
and environmental influences interact throughout development to shape: >>>>
* brain wiring,
* facial structure,
* physiology,
* and predispositions across a lifetime.
*What is striking:*
Uniqueness is not added at the endrCoit emerges continuously, from the >>>> very first divisions.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How early microscopic differences propagate into macroscopic
individuality, especially in the brain.
---
## The deeper wonder
-aFrom a single cell, governed by chemistry and physics, arises:
* consciousness,
* memory,
* creativity,
* moral agency.
This happens not through rigid instruction, but through a *deeply
interdependent, multiscale process* that blends genetic rules,
physical law, cellular context, and self-organisation.
Despite immense progress in molecular biology and embryology, we
still lack:
* a complete causal map from genes to form,
* a full explanation of robustness and error correction,
* and a unifying theory of biological development comparable to
those in physics.
*In short:*
We understand many of the parts. We understand some of the rules.
But how those rules so reliably give rise to a new, unique human
being remains one of the most profound and humbling questions in
science.
(ChatGPT)
______________
[2] THE HUMAN BODY COMPRISES 11 MAJOR PHYSIOLOGICAL SYSTEMS
Each exhibiting high functional complexity through scale, precision,
and cross-system integration.
1. The *nervous system* provides rapid information processing, with
~86 billion neurons and ~10-|rU|rCo10-|rU| synapses enabling millisecond- >>>> scale control while consuming ~20% of resting metabolic energy.
Humans possess ~2rCo3|u more cortical neurons than great apes, and this >>>> difference alone implies orders of magnitude greater combinatorial
processing capacity, given synaptic scaling; human prefrontal cortex
expansion to ~25rCo30% of the total cortex gives disproportionately
dense long-range connections enabling abstract reasoning, symbolic
thought, counterfactual planning, and recursive language.
2. The *circulatory system* sustains organism-wide transport via
~100,000 km of blood vessels and a heart that beats ~100,000 times
per day, continuously distributing oxygen, nutrients, hormones, and
immune cells.
3. The *respiratory system* enables gas exchange through ~300
million alveoli generating ~70 m-# of surface area, processing
~10,000 liters of air per day.
4. The *digestive system* converts food into bioavailable energy
along a ~9 m tract, with ~30rCo40 trillion gut microbes and ~30rCo40 m-# >>>> of absorptive surface area in the small intestine.
5. The *endocrine system* coordinates long-range regulation using
hormones effective at picomolarrConanomolar concentrations, exerting
organism-wide control through nested feedback loops.
6. The *immune system* provides adaptive defense with ~10-|-|rCo10-|-# >>>> active immune cells and the capacity to generate >10-|-# distinct
antibody variants with long-term memory.
7. The *musculoskeletal system* enables movement and structural
support through ~206 bones and ~600 muscles, with continuous
mechanical loading and bone remodeling (~5rCo10% annually).
8. The *integumentary system* forms a multifunctional protective
interface covering ~1.5rCo2.0 m-# and containing ~20 billion cells,
integrating mechanical protection, sensation, and immune signaling.
9. The *urinary (renal) system* maintains chemical homeostasis by
filtering ~180 liters of blood per day across ~2 million nephrons,
reabsorbing >99% of filtrate with high selectivity.
10. The *reproductive system* supports species continuity through
hormonally regulated gamete production (up to hundreds of millions
of sperm per day in males) and cyclic reproductive physiology in
females.
11. The *lymphatic system* complements circulation and immunity by
returning ~2rCo4 liters of interstitial fluid daily and coordinating
immune surveillance across hundreds of lymph nodes.
Taken together, these systems form a deeply interdependent,
multiscale biological architecture, in which trillions of components
are dynamically regulated with molecular precision to maintain
stability, adaptability, and continuity of the human organism.
(ChatGPT)
On 7/01/2026 3:43 am, RonO wrote:
On 1/6/2026 8:13 AM, MarkE wrote:
I've recently claimed here that the 80 megabytes of information in
the functional portion of the human genome is wildly insufficient to
specify the development of a human [1] into the system that is us
[2]. I've suggested that the "missing" information must be located in
the ovum's cytoplasm, organelles and membrane.
I've directly asked a number of contributors here if they believe 80
MB is sufficient to specify a human. This has generally been met with
silence. I can understand why, after an even cursory consideration of
[1] and [2]. Moreover, the implications of this for evolutionary
theory and biology are profound.
Anyway, it seems that ID agrees with me. This may not help convince
you, but I'm encouraged that others think this is an issue that needs
attention.
If you're unfamiliar, what you may find interesting is ID's proposed
solution: an "immaterial genome", with reference to Neoplatonism.
I'm not discounting that position, but do find it surprising! Would
this be a new creationist category, something like Continuous
Creation? Some may have less complimentary suggestions.
Anyway, enjoy (Ron, you may need medical attention after reading these): >>>
https://scienceandculture.com/2025/05/the-immaterial-genome-richard-
sternbergs-labor-of-love/
https://scienceandculture.com/2025/04/the-math-behind-the-immaterial-
genome/
______________
Nothing to crow about.
My point is the opposite - I shared ID's "immaterial genome" proposal
here expecting it to be enthusiastically criticised. (It may be old news
to you, I hadn't come across it before.)
One upside though is support for the information problem I've identified.
The ID perps are just getting around to admitting that they have been
bogusly in denial of something that they never understood.-a All the
denial about the genome and genetic code was just dishonest
stupidity.-a They never understood the information that really existed.
All this means is that they should now understand that they have to
start lying about something that isn't fully understood, and that they
can't quantify in order to claim that there is too much of it to have
had to accumulate by natural means.
How can you claim that there is an issue if you do not understand the
issue enough to figure out if there is a problem or not?
The genetic code isn't the information that life depends on.-a It has
always been understood that a cell is more than it's genome, and that
the products of the genetic code depended on the 3 dimensional
information created by the RNA and protein products of genes.-a This
encoded information has to work within what 3 dimensional information
that already exists in the cell.-a All changes have to work within what
is already working.-a This had to be true before the genetic code
evolved.-a All the genetic code has done is that it has improved the
efficiency of the reproduction of the cell, and it has grown in
function to direct the development of multicellular organisms from a
single cell. -a-aThe genome needs a fully functional cell in order to do
this, and every functional addition had to work within what had
already been working.
All the ID perps are admitting to is that they never had an argument
in the first place because they never understood what they were lying
about, and they still do not understand what they are lying about in
order to make any type of rational argument.
Just think about this for a moment.-a Sternberg has claimed that he has
been thinking about this issue for a long time.-a He is the ID perp
that dishonestly got Meyer's Cambrian explosion nonsense peer reviewed
by his chosen reviewers.-a He subsequently quit science (he was never
fired nor did he lose his office space) and quit participating in the
scientific endeavor.-a His most recent scientific publication on his
web page is from 2005, and he joined the ID perp scam outfit in 2007
in order to support the bait and switch scam.-a He could not use his
scientific expertise to support the ID scam, so he spent around 8
years messing with gaps in the whale fossil record (he was an
invertebrate taxonomist, but decided to prevaricate about whale
evolution).-a Behe destroyed his gap stupidity by claiming that whale
evolution was just the type of evolution expected to have occurred by
Darwinian mechanisms in 2014. Behe was really claiming that his
designer would have done it some other way.-a Behe tried to denigrate
that type of biological evolution by calling it "devolution" but
evolution is evolution.-a Sternberg had to start working on something
new, so he is getting around to admitting that the ID perps have never
been lying about what they should have been lying about in the first
place.
Ron Okimoto
[1] FROM ONE CELL TO A HUMAN BEING: AN OVERVIEW OF THE PROCESS AND
ITS MYSTERIES
*Fertilisation* begins when a sperm and ovum fuse to form a single
cell: the *zygote*. In that moment, a new, genetically unique human
organism exists. Yet nothing visible distinguishes this cell from
countless others. What follows is one of the most extraordinary
processes known in nature.
---
## 1. Exponential division without growth: cleavage
Within hours, the zygote begins dividing: 1 cell becomes 2, then 4,
8, 16, and so on. These early divisions, called *cleavage*, are
remarkable because the total size of the embryo does not increase.
Instead, the original cytoplasm is partitioned into ever-smaller cells.
Key features:
* Division is rapid and tightly synchronized.
* Cells remain enclosed in the original outer membrane.
* The embryo reaches ~100 cells in a few days.
*What is striking:*
All cells initially appear equivalent, yet they are already on
trajectories that will lead to radically different fates.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How early asymmetriesrCosubtle differences in molecular concentrations, >>> mechanics, and timingrCobias later cell fate decisions with such
reliability.
---
## 2. Self-organisation and implantation: the blastocyst
After several days, the embryo reorganises into a *blastocyst*rCoa
hollow structure with:
* an *inner cell mass* (which will become the body),
* and an *outer layer* (which will help form the placenta).
The blastocyst implants into the uterine wall, establishing a
biochemical dialogue with the mother that allows pregnancy to continue.
*What is striking:*
This organisation emerges without a central controller. Cells
rCLdeciderCY their roles through local interactions, gene regulation, and >>> physical constraints.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How global structure arises so robustly from local rules, and why
implantation succeeds or fails so often despite apparently normal
embryos.
---
## 3. The body plan appears: gastrulation
Around the third week, the embryo undergoes *gastrulation*, often
called *the most important event in your life*. A simple sheet of
cells folds and rearranges to form three foundational layers:
* *Ectoderm* raA nervous system, skin
* *Mesoderm* raA muscle, bone, blood, heart
* *Endoderm* raA gut, liver, lungs
-aFrom this point onward, the basic body axesrCohead to tail, back to
front, left to rightrCoare established.
*What is striking:*
A consistent human body plan emerges from dramatic cellular movements
that look, under a microscope, almost chaotic.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How genetic instructions, chemical gradients, and mechanical forces
are integrated in real time to yield precise, repeatable anatomy.
---
## 4. Differentiation and organ formation: organogenesis
Cells now differentiate into hundreds of specialised types and
assemble into organs. Neural cells wire themselves into circuits.
Blood vessels branch through tissues. The heart begins beating while
still forming.
Cell numbers increase exponentially, eventually reaching *tens of
trillions*, yet:
* proportions are maintained,
* leftrCoright symmetry is mostly preserved,
* errors are detected and corrected.
*What is striking:*
No cell rCLknowsrCY the whole plan, yet the whole plan reliably appears. >>>
*What we do not fully understand:*
* How large-scale structures (like vascular trees or neural
connectivity) are specified without explicit blueprints
* How errors are corrected without derailing development
* How timing is coordinated across vastly different scales
---
## 5. Uniqueness emerges
Although humans share a common body plan, no two individuals are the
same. Small genetic differences, epigenetic marks, maternal factors,
and environmental influences interact throughout development to shape:
* brain wiring,
* facial structure,
* physiology,
* and predispositions across a lifetime.
*What is striking:*
Uniqueness is not added at the endrCoit emerges continuously, from the
very first divisions.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How early microscopic differences propagate into macroscopic
individuality, especially in the brain.
---
## The deeper wonder
-aFrom a single cell, governed by chemistry and physics, arises:
* consciousness,
* memory,
* creativity,
* moral agency.
This happens not through rigid instruction, but through a *deeply
interdependent, multiscale process* that blends genetic rules,
physical law, cellular context, and self-organisation.
Despite immense progress in molecular biology and embryology, we
still lack:
* a complete causal map from genes to form,
* a full explanation of robustness and error correction,
* and a unifying theory of biological development comparable to those
in physics.
*In short:*
We understand many of the parts. We understand some of the rules.
But how those rules so reliably give rise to a new, unique human
being remains one of the most profound and humbling questions in
science.
(ChatGPT)
______________
[2] THE HUMAN BODY COMPRISES 11 MAJOR PHYSIOLOGICAL SYSTEMS
Each exhibiting high functional complexity through scale, precision,
and cross-system integration.
1. The *nervous system* provides rapid information processing, with
~86 billion neurons and ~10-|rU|rCo10-|rU| synapses enabling millisecond- >>> scale control while consuming ~20% of resting metabolic energy.
Humans possess ~2rCo3|u more cortical neurons than great apes, and this >>> difference alone implies orders of magnitude greater combinatorial
processing capacity, given synaptic scaling; human prefrontal cortex
expansion to ~25rCo30% of the total cortex gives disproportionately
dense long-range connections enabling abstract reasoning, symbolic
thought, counterfactual planning, and recursive language.
2. The *circulatory system* sustains organism-wide transport via
~100,000 km of blood vessels and a heart that beats ~100,000 times
per day, continuously distributing oxygen, nutrients, hormones, and
immune cells.
3. The *respiratory system* enables gas exchange through ~300 million
alveoli generating ~70 m-# of surface area, processing ~10,000 liters
of air per day.
4. The *digestive system* converts food into bioavailable energy
along a ~9 m tract, with ~30rCo40 trillion gut microbes and ~30rCo40 m-# >>> of absorptive surface area in the small intestine.
5. The *endocrine system* coordinates long-range regulation using
hormones effective at picomolarrConanomolar concentrations, exerting
organism-wide control through nested feedback loops.
6. The *immune system* provides adaptive defense with ~10-|-|rCo10-|-#
active immune cells and the capacity to generate >10-|-# distinct
antibody variants with long-term memory.
7. The *musculoskeletal system* enables movement and structural
support through ~206 bones and ~600 muscles, with continuous
mechanical loading and bone remodeling (~5rCo10% annually).
8. The *integumentary system* forms a multifunctional protective
interface covering ~1.5rCo2.0 m-# and containing ~20 billion cells,
integrating mechanical protection, sensation, and immune signaling.
9. The *urinary (renal) system* maintains chemical homeostasis by
filtering ~180 liters of blood per day across ~2 million nephrons,
reabsorbing >99% of filtrate with high selectivity.
10. The *reproductive system* supports species continuity through
hormonally regulated gamete production (up to hundreds of millions of
sperm per day in males) and cyclic reproductive physiology in females.
11. The *lymphatic system* complements circulation and immunity by
returning ~2rCo4 liters of interstitial fluid daily and coordinating
immune surveillance across hundreds of lymph nodes.
Taken together, these systems form a deeply interdependent,
multiscale biological architecture, in which trillions of components
are dynamically regulated with molecular precision to maintain
stability, adaptability, and continuity of the human organism.
(ChatGPT)
On 7/01/2026 8:24 am, RonO wrote:
Here is the strongest argument for the ID scam.
https://scienceandculture.com/2026/01/the-strongest-argument-for-
intelligent-design-is-also-the-simplest/
You just have to have no knowledge of physics, chemistry nor how
biological evolution works to think that it is any valid argument at all.
Ron Okimoto
Off topic, but I'm curious to know your view on the first-cause/ cosmological argument?
I find Roger Penrose's position revealing. He recognises that this
argument has weight, and attempts to avoid an absolute space/time
beginning (and thus a rCLfirst causerCY) without invoking a multiverse or speculative quantum creation from nothing with his Conformal Cyclic Cosmology (CCC).
Thanks Roger for confirming that (i) the first-cause problem is real;
(ii) current materialist hypotheses are doubtful at best; and (iii) materialists are willing to try any amount of mathematical gymnastics
(e.g. CCC) to avoid the God hypothesis.
On 2026-01-06 10:55 p.m., MarkE wrote:
On 7/01/2026 4:58 am, DB Cates wrote:"local interactions" and "physical constraints" are not anywhere in that
I thought I would point out something in your presentation that is
not addressed in your argument.
Note the things mentioned in the "*What is striking:*" and "*What we
do not fully understand:*" sections. Almost all of it is relating to
non- genetic effects on development. These are *all* sources of large
quantities of information. That we do not currently know exactly how
most of this non-genetic information interacts with the genetic
information is an important topic of developmental research but it
answers your question about the *amount* of information involved in
development.
Your causality is back-to-front: You say, "These are *all* sources of
large quantities of information." Rather, these are all *expressions*
of large quantities of information, not *sources*.
For example:
*What is striking:*
This organisation emerges without a central controller. Cells
rCLdeciderCY their roles through local interactions, gene regulation, >> -a>>> and physical constraints.
Where did the "gene regulation and physical constraints" come from,
which cells use to rCLdeciderCY their roles? From information in the zygote. >>
80 MB of code. See my comments at '## 1' below.
Etc.This is due to the 'code' - [cell(s) told to divide]
On 2026-01-06 8:36 a.m., MarkE wrote:
On 7/01/2026 1:13 am, MarkE wrote:
I've recently claimed here that the 80 megabytes of information in
the functional portion of the human genome is wildly insufficient
to specify the development of a human [1] into the system that is
us [2]. I've suggested that the "missing" information must be
located in the ovum's cytoplasm, organelles and membrane.
PS Here's a related article on challenges explaining embryologic
development:
"Though speculative, the model addresses the poignant absence in the
literature of any plausible account of the origin of vertebrate
morphology."
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0079610716300542
I've directly asked a number of contributors here if they believe
80 MB is sufficient to specify a human. This has generally been met >>>>> with silence. I can understand why, after an even cursory
consideration of [1] and [2]. Moreover, the implications of this
for evolutionary theory and biology are profound.
Anyway, it seems that ID agrees with me. This may not help convince >>>>> you, but I'm encouraged that others think this is an issue that
needs attention.
If you're unfamiliar, what you may find interesting is ID's
proposed solution: an "immaterial genome", with reference to
Neoplatonism.
I'm not discounting that position, but do find it surprising! Would >>>>> this be a new creationist category, something like Continuous
Creation? Some may have less complimentary suggestions.
Anyway, enjoy (Ron, you may need medical attention after reading
these):
https://scienceandculture.com/2025/05/the-immaterial-genome-
richard- sternbergs-labor-of-love/
https://scienceandculture.com/2025/04/the-math-behind-the-
immaterial- genome/
______________
[1] FROM ONE CELL TO A HUMAN BEING: AN OVERVIEW OF THE PROCESS AND
ITS MYSTERIES
*Fertilisation* begins when a sperm and ovum fuse to form a single
cell: the *zygote*. In that moment, a new, genetically unique human >>>>> organism exists. Yet nothing visible distinguishes this cell from
countless others. What follows is one of the most extraordinary
processes known in nature.
---
## 1. Exponential division without growth: cleavage
Within hours, the zygote begins dividing: 1 cell becomes 2, then 4, >>>>> 8, 16, and so on. These early divisions, called *cleavage*, are
remarkable because the total size of the embryo does not increase.
Instead, the original cytoplasm is partitioned into ever-smaller
cells.
Now some of the cells are still in contact with the outer membrane andKey features:
* Division is rapid and tightly synchronized.
* Cells remain enclosed in the original outer membrane.
* The embryo reaches ~100 cells in a few days.
with other cells. Some cells are close to the membrane but only in
contact with other cells. Some are far from the outer membrane and only
in contact with other cells. These strikingly different environments are
not 'coded' for, they just happen because of physical constraints. It constitutes new information that helps determine future development.
It is part of "*What we do not fully understand:*" below.
*What is striking:*
All cells initially appear equivalent, yet they are already on
trajectories that will lead to radically different fates.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How early asymmetriesrCosubtle differences in molecular
concentrations, mechanics, and timingrCobias later cell fate
decisions with such reliability.
---
## 2. Self-organisation and implantation: the blastocyst
After several days, the embryo reorganises into a *blastocyst*rCoa
hollow structure with:
* an *inner cell mass* (which will become the body),
* and an *outer layer* (which will help form the placenta).
The blastocyst implants into the uterine wall, establishing a
biochemical dialogue with the mother that allows pregnancy to
continue.
*What is striking:*
This organisation emerges without a central controller. Cells
rCLdeciderCY their roles through local interactions, gene regulation, >>>>> and physical constraints.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How global structure arises so robustly from local rules, and why
implantation succeeds or fails so often despite apparently normal
embryos.
---
## 3. The body plan appears: gastrulation
Around the third week, the embryo undergoes *gastrulation*, often
called *the most important event in your life*. A simple sheet of
cells folds and rearranges to form three foundational layers:
* *Ectoderm* raA nervous system, skin
* *Mesoderm* raA muscle, bone, blood, heart
* *Endoderm* raA gut, liver, lungs
-aFrom this point onward, the basic body axesrCohead to tail, back to >>>>> front, left to rightrCoare established.
*What is striking:*
A consistent human body plan emerges from dramatic cellular
movements that look, under a microscope, almost chaotic.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How genetic instructions, chemical gradients, and mechanical forces >>>>> are integrated in real time to yield precise, repeatable anatomy.
---
## 4. Differentiation and organ formation: organogenesis
Cells now differentiate into hundreds of specialised types and
assemble into organs. Neural cells wire themselves into circuits.
Blood vessels branch through tissues. The heart begins beating
while still forming.
Cell numbers increase exponentially, eventually reaching *tens of
trillions*, yet:
* proportions are maintained,
* leftrCoright symmetry is mostly preserved,
* errors are detected and corrected.
*What is striking:*
No cell rCLknowsrCY the whole plan, yet the whole plan reliably appears. >>>>>
*What we do not fully understand:*
* How large-scale structures (like vascular trees or neural
connectivity) are specified without explicit blueprints
* How errors are corrected without derailing development
* How timing is coordinated across vastly different scales
---
## 5. Uniqueness emerges
Although humans share a common body plan, no two individuals are
the same. Small genetic differences, epigenetic marks, maternal
factors, and environmental influences interact throughout
development to shape:
* brain wiring,
* facial structure,
* physiology,
* and predispositions across a lifetime.
*What is striking:*
Uniqueness is not added at the endrCoit emerges continuously, from
the very first divisions.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How early microscopic differences propagate into macroscopic
individuality, especially in the brain.
---
## The deeper wonder
-aFrom a single cell, governed by chemistry and physics, arises:
* consciousness,
* memory,
* creativity,
* moral agency.
This happens not through rigid instruction, but through a *deeply
interdependent, multiscale process* that blends genetic rules,
physical law, cellular context, and self-organisation.
Despite immense progress in molecular biology and embryology, we
still lack:
* a complete causal map from genes to form,
* a full explanation of robustness and error correction,
* and a unifying theory of biological development comparable to
those in physics.
*In short:*
We understand many of the parts. We understand some of the rules.
But how those rules so reliably give rise to a new, unique human
being remains one of the most profound and humbling questions in
science.
(ChatGPT)
______________
[2] THE HUMAN BODY COMPRISES 11 MAJOR PHYSIOLOGICAL SYSTEMS
Each exhibiting high functional complexity through scale,
precision, and cross-system integration.
1. The *nervous system* provides rapid information processing, with >>>>> ~86 billion neurons and ~10-|rU|rCo10-|rU| synapses enabling millisecond-
scale control while consuming ~20% of resting metabolic energy.
Humans possess ~2rCo3|u more cortical neurons than great apes, and
this difference alone implies orders of magnitude greater
combinatorial processing capacity, given synaptic scaling; human
prefrontal cortex expansion to ~25rCo30% of the total cortex gives
disproportionately dense long-range connections enabling abstract
reasoning, symbolic thought, counterfactual planning, and recursive >>>>> language.
2. The *circulatory system* sustains organism-wide transport via
~100,000 km of blood vessels and a heart that beats ~100,000 times
per day, continuously distributing oxygen, nutrients, hormones, and >>>>> immune cells.
3. The *respiratory system* enables gas exchange through ~300
million alveoli generating ~70 m-# of surface area, processing
~10,000 liters of air per day.
4. The *digestive system* converts food into bioavailable energy
along a ~9 m tract, with ~30rCo40 trillion gut microbes and ~30rCo40 m-# >>>>> of absorptive surface area in the small intestine.
5. The *endocrine system* coordinates long-range regulation using
hormones effective at picomolarrConanomolar concentrations, exerting >>>>> organism-wide control through nested feedback loops.
6. The *immune system* provides adaptive defense with ~10-|-|rCo10-|-# >>>>> active immune cells and the capacity to generate >10-|-# distinct
antibody variants with long-term memory.
7. The *musculoskeletal system* enables movement and structural
support through ~206 bones and ~600 muscles, with continuous
mechanical loading and bone remodeling (~5rCo10% annually).
8. The *integumentary system* forms a multifunctional protective
interface covering ~1.5rCo2.0 m-# and containing ~20 billion cells, >>>>> integrating mechanical protection, sensation, and immune signaling.
9. The *urinary (renal) system* maintains chemical homeostasis by
filtering ~180 liters of blood per day across ~2 million nephrons,
reabsorbing >99% of filtrate with high selectivity.
10. The *reproductive system* supports species continuity through
hormonally regulated gamete production (up to hundreds of millions
of sperm per day in males) and cyclic reproductive physiology in
females.
11. The *lymphatic system* complements circulation and immunity by
returning ~2rCo4 liters of interstitial fluid daily and coordinating >>>>> immune surveillance across hundreds of lymph nodes.
Taken together, these systems form a deeply interdependent,
multiscale biological architecture, in which trillions of
components are dynamically regulated with molecular precision to
maintain stability, adaptability, and continuity of the human
organism.
(ChatGPT)
On 8/01/2026 2:52 am, DB Cates wrote:
On 2026-01-06 10:55 p.m., MarkE wrote:
On 7/01/2026 4:58 am, DB Cates wrote:"local interactions" and "physical constraints" are not anywhere in
I thought I would point out something in your presentation that is
not addressed in your argument.
Note the things mentioned in the "*What is striking:*" and "*What we
do not fully understand:*" sections. Almost all of it is relating to
non- genetic effects on development. These are *all* sources of
large quantities of information. That we do not currently know
exactly how most of this non-genetic information interacts with the
genetic information is an important topic of developmental research
but it answers your question about the *amount* of information
involved in development.
Your causality is back-to-front: You say, "These are *all* sources of
large quantities of information." Rather, these are all *expressions*
of large quantities of information, not *sources*.
For example:
*What is striking:*
This organisation emerges without a central controller. Cells
rCLdeciderCY their roles through local interactions, gene regulation, >>> -a>>> and physical constraints.
Where did the "gene regulation and physical constraints" come from,
which cells use to rCLdeciderCY their roles? From information in the zygote.
that 80 MB of code. See my comments at '## 1' below.
"Now some of the cells are still in contact with the outer membrane and
with other cells. Some cells are close to the membrane but only in
contact with other cells. Some are far from the outer membrane and only
in contact with other cells. These strikingly different environments are
not 'coded' for, they just happen because of physical constraints. It constitutes new information that helps determine future development."
No!
These "strikingly different environments" do not "just happen" because
of physical constraints. They are very, very particular constraints that produce a very, very particular development pathway.
Where does the very, very specific information that specifies this come from? Either the genome, the rest of the cell, or as per one ID
proposal, the "immaterial genome".
But there is free lunch in produce in specifying and producing the
system of this staggering functional complexity as summarised in [1] and
[2] - the information required must come from somewhere.
Etc.This is due to the 'code' - [cell(s) told to divide]
On 2026-01-06 8:36 a.m., MarkE wrote:
On 7/01/2026 1:13 am, MarkE wrote:
I've recently claimed here that the 80 megabytes of information in >>>>>> the functional portion of the human genome is wildly insufficient >>>>>> to specify the development of a human [1] into the system that is >>>>>> us [2]. I've suggested that the "missing" information must be
located in the ovum's cytoplasm, organelles and membrane.
PS Here's a related article on challenges explaining embryologic
development:
"Though speculative, the model addresses the poignant absence in
the literature of any plausible account of the origin of vertebrate >>>>> morphology."
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0079610716300542
I've directly asked a number of contributors here if they believe >>>>>> 80 MB is sufficient to specify a human. This has generally been
met with silence. I can understand why, after an even cursory
consideration of [1] and [2]. Moreover, the implications of this
for evolutionary theory and biology are profound.
Anyway, it seems that ID agrees with me. This may not help
convince you, but I'm encouraged that others think this is an
issue that needs attention.
If you're unfamiliar, what you may find interesting is ID's
proposed solution: an "immaterial genome", with reference to
Neoplatonism.
I'm not discounting that position, but do find it surprising!
Would this be a new creationist category, something like
Continuous Creation? Some may have less complimentary suggestions. >>>>>>
Anyway, enjoy (Ron, you may need medical attention after reading
these):
https://scienceandculture.com/2025/05/the-immaterial-genome-
richard- sternbergs-labor-of-love/
https://scienceandculture.com/2025/04/the-math-behind-the-
immaterial- genome/
______________
[1] FROM ONE CELL TO A HUMAN BEING: AN OVERVIEW OF THE PROCESS AND >>>>>> ITS MYSTERIES
*Fertilisation* begins when a sperm and ovum fuse to form a single >>>>>> cell: the *zygote*. In that moment, a new, genetically unique
human organism exists. Yet nothing visible distinguishes this cell >>>>>> from countless others. What follows is one of the most
extraordinary processes known in nature.
---
## 1. Exponential division without growth: cleavage
Within hours, the zygote begins dividing: 1 cell becomes 2, then
4, 8, 16, and so on. These early divisions, called *cleavage*, are >>>>>> remarkable because the total size of the embryo does not increase. >>>>>> Instead, the original cytoplasm is partitioned into ever-smaller
cells.
Now some of the cells are still in contact with the outer membrane andKey features:
* Division is rapid and tightly synchronized.
* Cells remain enclosed in the original outer membrane.
* The embryo reaches ~100 cells in a few days.
with other cells. Some cells are close to the membrane but only in
contact with other cells. Some are far from the outer membrane and
only in contact with other cells. These strikingly different
environments are not 'coded' for, they just happen because of physical
constraints. It constitutes new information that helps determine
future development.
It is part of "*What we do not fully understand:*" below.
*What is striking:*
All cells initially appear equivalent, yet they are already on
trajectories that will lead to radically different fates.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How early asymmetriesrCosubtle differences in molecular
concentrations, mechanics, and timingrCobias later cell fate
decisions with such reliability.
---
## 2. Self-organisation and implantation: the blastocyst
After several days, the embryo reorganises into a *blastocyst*rCoa >>>>>> hollow structure with:
* an *inner cell mass* (which will become the body),
* and an *outer layer* (which will help form the placenta).
The blastocyst implants into the uterine wall, establishing a
biochemical dialogue with the mother that allows pregnancy to
continue.
*What is striking:*
This organisation emerges without a central controller. Cells
rCLdeciderCY their roles through local interactions, gene regulation, >>>>>> and physical constraints.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How global structure arises so robustly from local rules, and why >>>>>> implantation succeeds or fails so often despite apparently normal >>>>>> embryos.
---
## 3. The body plan appears: gastrulation
Around the third week, the embryo undergoes *gastrulation*, often >>>>>> called *the most important event in your life*. A simple sheet of >>>>>> cells folds and rearranges to form three foundational layers:
* *Ectoderm* raA nervous system, skin
* *Mesoderm* raA muscle, bone, blood, heart
* *Endoderm* raA gut, liver, lungs
-aFrom this point onward, the basic body axesrCohead to tail, back to >>>>>> front, left to rightrCoare established.
*What is striking:*
A consistent human body plan emerges from dramatic cellular
movements that look, under a microscope, almost chaotic.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How genetic instructions, chemical gradients, and mechanical
forces are integrated in real time to yield precise, repeatable
anatomy.
---
## 4. Differentiation and organ formation: organogenesis
Cells now differentiate into hundreds of specialised types and
assemble into organs. Neural cells wire themselves into circuits. >>>>>> Blood vessels branch through tissues. The heart begins beating
while still forming.
Cell numbers increase exponentially, eventually reaching *tens of >>>>>> trillions*, yet:
* proportions are maintained,
* leftrCoright symmetry is mostly preserved,
* errors are detected and corrected.
*What is striking:*
No cell rCLknowsrCY the whole plan, yet the whole plan reliably appears. >>>>>>
*What we do not fully understand:*
* How large-scale structures (like vascular trees or neural
connectivity) are specified without explicit blueprints
* How errors are corrected without derailing development
* How timing is coordinated across vastly different scales
---
## 5. Uniqueness emerges
Although humans share a common body plan, no two individuals are
the same. Small genetic differences, epigenetic marks, maternal
factors, and environmental influences interact throughout
development to shape:
* brain wiring,
* facial structure,
* physiology,
* and predispositions across a lifetime.
*What is striking:*
Uniqueness is not added at the endrCoit emerges continuously, from >>>>>> the very first divisions.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How early microscopic differences propagate into macroscopic
individuality, especially in the brain.
---
## The deeper wonder
-aFrom a single cell, governed by chemistry and physics, arises:
* consciousness,
* memory,
* creativity,
* moral agency.
This happens not through rigid instruction, but through a *deeply >>>>>> interdependent, multiscale process* that blends genetic rules,
physical law, cellular context, and self-organisation.
Despite immense progress in molecular biology and embryology, we
still lack:
* a complete causal map from genes to form,
* a full explanation of robustness and error correction,
* and a unifying theory of biological development comparable to
those in physics.
*In short:*
We understand many of the parts. We understand some of the rules.
But how those rules so reliably give rise to a new, unique human
being remains one of the most profound and humbling questions in
science.
(ChatGPT)
______________
[2] THE HUMAN BODY COMPRISES 11 MAJOR PHYSIOLOGICAL SYSTEMS
Each exhibiting high functional complexity through scale,
precision, and cross-system integration.
1. The *nervous system* provides rapid information processing,
with ~86 billion neurons and ~10-|rU|rCo10-|rU| synapses enabling >>>>>> millisecond- scale control while consuming ~20% of resting
metabolic energy. Humans possess ~2rCo3|u more cortical neurons than >>>>>> great apes, and this difference alone implies orders of magnitude >>>>>> greater combinatorial processing capacity, given synaptic scaling; >>>>>> human prefrontal cortex expansion to ~25rCo30% of the total cortex >>>>>> gives disproportionately dense long-range connections enabling
abstract reasoning, symbolic thought, counterfactual planning, and >>>>>> recursive language.
2. The *circulatory system* sustains organism-wide transport via
~100,000 km of blood vessels and a heart that beats ~100,000 times >>>>>> per day, continuously distributing oxygen, nutrients, hormones,
and immune cells.
3. The *respiratory system* enables gas exchange through ~300
million alveoli generating ~70 m-# of surface area, processing
~10,000 liters of air per day.
4. The *digestive system* converts food into bioavailable energy
along a ~9 m tract, with ~30rCo40 trillion gut microbes and ~30rCo40 >>>>>> m-# of absorptive surface area in the small intestine.
5. The *endocrine system* coordinates long-range regulation using >>>>>> hormones effective at picomolarrConanomolar concentrations, exerting >>>>>> organism-wide control through nested feedback loops.
6. The *immune system* provides adaptive defense with ~10-|-|rCo10-|-# >>>>>> active immune cells and the capacity to generate >10-|-# distinct >>>>>> antibody variants with long-term memory.
7. The *musculoskeletal system* enables movement and structural
support through ~206 bones and ~600 muscles, with continuous
mechanical loading and bone remodeling (~5rCo10% annually).
8. The *integumentary system* forms a multifunctional protective
interface covering ~1.5rCo2.0 m-# and containing ~20 billion cells, >>>>>> integrating mechanical protection, sensation, and immune signaling. >>>>>>
9. The *urinary (renal) system* maintains chemical homeostasis by >>>>>> filtering ~180 liters of blood per day across ~2 million nephrons, >>>>>> reabsorbing >99% of filtrate with high selectivity.
10. The *reproductive system* supports species continuity through >>>>>> hormonally regulated gamete production (up to hundreds of millions >>>>>> of sperm per day in males) and cyclic reproductive physiology in
females.
11. The *lymphatic system* complements circulation and immunity by >>>>>> returning ~2rCo4 liters of interstitial fluid daily and coordinating >>>>>> immune surveillance across hundreds of lymph nodes.
Taken together, these systems form a deeply interdependent,
multiscale biological architecture, in which trillions of
components are dynamically regulated with molecular precision to
maintain stability, adaptability, and continuity of the human
organism.
(ChatGPT)
On 7/01/2026 8:24 am, RonO wrote:If by "first-cause problem" you refer to the claim that the universe's existence is proof of God, then Penrose's CCC is orthogonal to it.
Here is the strongest argument for the ID scam.
https://scienceandculture.com/2026/01/the-strongest-argument-for-
intelligent-design-is-also-the-simplest/
You just have to have no knowledge of physics, chemistry nor how
biological evolution works to think that it is any valid argument at all.
Ron Okimoto
Off topic, but I'm curious to know your view on the
first-cause/cosmological argument?
I find Roger Penrose's position revealing. He recognises that this
argument has weight, and attempts to avoid an absolute space/time
beginning (and thus a rCLfirst causerCY) without invoking a multiverse or >speculative quantum creation from nothing with his Conformal Cyclic >Cosmology (CCC).
Thanks Roger for confirming that (i) the first-cause problem is real;
(ii) current materialist hypotheses are doubtful at best; and (iii) >materialists are willing to try any amount of mathematical gymnastics
(e.g. CCC) to avoid the God hypothesis.
On 7/01/2026 11:16 pm, jillery wrote:Why avoid supporting your own claim? If I say it's sufficient, will
On Wed, 7 Jan 2026 01:13:42 +1100, MarkE <me22over7@gmail.com> wrote:
I've recently claimed here that the 80 megabytes of information in the
functional portion of the human genome is wildly insufficient to specify >>> the development of a human [1] into the system that is us [2]. I've
suggested that the "missing" information must be located in the ovum's
cytoplasm, organelles and membrane.
I've directly asked a number of contributors here if they believe 80 MB
is sufficient to specify a human. This has generally been met with
silence. I can understand why, after an even cursory consideration of
[1] and [2]. Moreover, the implications of this for evolutionary theory
and biology are profound.
That silence is the sound of one hand clapping, as all wait for you to
say on what basis you think 80 MB is *insufficient* to specify a
human.
Do you think 80 MB is sufficient to specify [1] and [2]?
--Anyway, it seems that ID agrees with me. This may not help convince you, >>> but I'm encouraged that others think this is an issue that needs attention. >>>
If you're unfamiliar, what you may find interesting is ID's proposed
solution: an "immaterial genome", with reference to Neoplatonism.
I'm not discounting that position, but do find it surprising! Would this >>> be a new creationist category, something like Continuous Creation? Some
may have less complimentary suggestions.
Anyway, enjoy (Ron, you may need medical attention after reading these): >>>
https://scienceandculture.com/2025/05/the-immaterial-genome-richard-sternbergs-labor-of-love/
https://scienceandculture.com/2025/04/the-math-behind-the-immaterial-genome/
______________
[1] FROM ONE CELL TO A HUMAN BEING: AN OVERVIEW OF THE PROCESS AND ITS
MYSTERIES
*Fertilisation* begins when a sperm and ovum fuse to form a single cell: >>> the *zygote*. In that moment, a new, genetically unique human organism
exists. Yet nothing visible distinguishes this cell from countless
others. What follows is one of the most extraordinary processes known in >>> nature.
---
## 1. Exponential division without growth: cleavage
Within hours, the zygote begins dividing: 1 cell becomes 2, then 4, 8,
16, and so on. These early divisions, called *cleavage*, are remarkable
because the total size of the embryo does not increase. Instead, the
original cytoplasm is partitioned into ever-smaller cells.
Key features:
* Division is rapid and tightly synchronized.
* Cells remain enclosed in the original outer membrane.
* The embryo reaches ~100 cells in a few days.
*What is striking:*
All cells initially appear equivalent, yet they are already on
trajectories that will lead to radically different fates.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How early asymmetriesrCosubtle differences in molecular concentrations,
mechanics, and timingrCobias later cell fate decisions with such reliability.
---
## 2. Self-organisation and implantation: the blastocyst
After several days, the embryo reorganises into a *blastocyst*rCoa hollow >>> structure with:
* an *inner cell mass* (which will become the body),
* and an *outer layer* (which will help form the placenta).
The blastocyst implants into the uterine wall, establishing a
biochemical dialogue with the mother that allows pregnancy to continue.
*What is striking:*
This organisation emerges without a central controller. Cells rCLdeciderCY >>> their roles through local interactions, gene regulation, and physical
constraints.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How global structure arises so robustly from local rules, and why
implantation succeeds or fails so often despite apparently normal embryos. >>>
---
## 3. The body plan appears: gastrulation
Around the third week, the embryo undergoes *gastrulation*, often called >>> *the most important event in your life*. A simple sheet of cells folds
and rearranges to form three foundational layers:
* *Ectoderm* ? nervous system, skin
* *Mesoderm* ? muscle, bone, blood, heart
* *Endoderm* ? gut, liver, lungs
From this point onward, the basic body axesrCohead to tail, back to
front, left to rightrCoare established.
*What is striking:*
A consistent human body plan emerges from dramatic cellular movements
that look, under a microscope, almost chaotic.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How genetic instructions, chemical gradients, and mechanical forces are
integrated in real time to yield precise, repeatable anatomy.
---
## 4. Differentiation and organ formation: organogenesis
Cells now differentiate into hundreds of specialised types and assemble
into organs. Neural cells wire themselves into circuits. Blood vessels
branch through tissues. The heart begins beating while still forming.
Cell numbers increase exponentially, eventually reaching *tens of
trillions*, yet:
* proportions are maintained,
* leftrCoright symmetry is mostly preserved,
* errors are detected and corrected.
*What is striking:*
No cell rCLknowsrCY the whole plan, yet the whole plan reliably appears. >>>
*What we do not fully understand:*
* How large-scale structures (like vascular trees or neural
connectivity) are specified without explicit blueprints
* How errors are corrected without derailing development
* How timing is coordinated across vastly different scales
---
## 5. Uniqueness emerges
Although humans share a common body plan, no two individuals are the
same. Small genetic differences, epigenetic marks, maternal factors, and >>> environmental influences interact throughout development to shape:
* brain wiring,
* facial structure,
* physiology,
* and predispositions across a lifetime.
*What is striking:*
Uniqueness is not added at the endrCoit emerges continuously, from the
very first divisions.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How early microscopic differences propagate into macroscopic
individuality, especially in the brain.
---
## The deeper wonder
From a single cell, governed by chemistry and physics, arises:
* consciousness,
* memory,
* creativity,
* moral agency.
This happens not through rigid instruction, but through a *deeply
interdependent, multiscale process* that blends genetic rules, physical
law, cellular context, and self-organisation.
Despite immense progress in molecular biology and embryology, we still lack:
* a complete causal map from genes to form,
* a full explanation of robustness and error correction,
* and a unifying theory of biological development comparable to those in >>> physics.
*In short:*
We understand many of the parts. We understand some of the rules.
But how those rules so reliably give rise to a new, unique human being
remains one of the most profound and humbling questions in science.
(ChatGPT)
______________
[2] THE HUMAN BODY COMPRISES 11 MAJOR PHYSIOLOGICAL SYSTEMS
Each exhibiting high functional complexity through scale, precision, and >>> cross-system integration.
1. The *nervous system* provides rapid information processing, with ~86
billion neurons and ~10-|?rCo10-|? synapses enabling millisecond-scale
control while consuming ~20% of resting metabolic energy. Humans possess >>> ~2rCo3|u more cortical neurons than great apes, and this difference alone >>> implies orders of magnitude greater combinatorial processing capacity,
given synaptic scaling; human prefrontal cortex expansion to ~25rCo30% of >>> the total cortex gives disproportionately dense long-range connections
enabling abstract reasoning, symbolic thought, counterfactual planning,
and recursive language.
2. The *circulatory system* sustains organism-wide transport via
~100,000 km of blood vessels and a heart that beats ~100,000 times per
day, continuously distributing oxygen, nutrients, hormones, and immune
cells.
3. The *respiratory system* enables gas exchange through ~300 million
alveoli generating ~70 m-# of surface area, processing ~10,000 liters of >>> air per day.
4. The *digestive system* converts food into bioavailable energy along a >>> ~9 m tract, with ~30rCo40 trillion gut microbes and ~30rCo40 m-# of
absorptive surface area in the small intestine.
5. The *endocrine system* coordinates long-range regulation using
hormones effective at picomolarrConanomolar concentrations, exerting
organism-wide control through nested feedback loops.
6. The *immune system* provides adaptive defense with ~10-|-|rCo10-|-# active
immune cells and the capacity to generate >10-|-# distinct antibody
variants with long-term memory.
7. The *musculoskeletal system* enables movement and structural support
through ~206 bones and ~600 muscles, with continuous mechanical loading
and bone remodeling (~5rCo10% annually).
8. The *integumentary system* forms a multifunctional protective
interface covering ~1.5rCo2.0 m-# and containing ~20 billion cells,
integrating mechanical protection, sensation, and immune signaling.
9. The *urinary (renal) system* maintains chemical homeostasis by
filtering ~180 liters of blood per day across ~2 million nephrons,
reabsorbing >99% of filtrate with high selectivity.
10. The *reproductive system* supports species continuity through
hormonally regulated gamete production (up to hundreds of millions of
sperm per day in males) and cyclic reproductive physiology in females.
11. The *lymphatic system* complements circulation and immunity by
returning ~2rCo4 liters of interstitial fluid daily and coordinating
immune surveillance across hundreds of lymph nodes.
Taken together, these systems form a deeply interdependent, multiscale
biological architecture, in which trillions of components are
dynamically regulated with molecular precision to maintain stability,
adaptability, and continuity of the human organism.
(ChatGPT)
On Wed, 7 Jan 2026 23:38:12 +1100, MarkE <me22over7@gmail.com> wrote:
On 7/01/2026 11:16 pm, jillery wrote:
On Wed, 7 Jan 2026 01:13:42 +1100, MarkE <me22over7@gmail.com> wrote:
I've recently claimed here that the 80 megabytes of information in the >>>> functional portion of the human genome is wildly insufficient to specify >>>> the development of a human [1] into the system that is us [2]. I've
suggested that the "missing" information must be located in the ovum's >>>> cytoplasm, organelles and membrane.
I've directly asked a number of contributors here if they believe 80 MB >>>> is sufficient to specify a human. This has generally been met with
silence. I can understand why, after an even cursory consideration of
[1] and [2]. Moreover, the implications of this for evolutionary theory >>>> and biology are profound.
That silence is the sound of one hand clapping, as all wait for you to
say on what basis you think 80 MB is *insufficient* to specify a
human.
Do you think 80 MB is sufficient to specify [1] and [2]?
Why avoid supporting your own claim? If I say it's sufficient, will
you then demand I provide evidence to show that it is, so you can
continue to avoid saying on what basis you think 80 MB is
insufficient?
Anyway, it seems that ID agrees with me. This may not help convince you, >>>> but I'm encouraged that others think this is an issue that needs attention.
If you're unfamiliar, what you may find interesting is ID's proposed
solution: an "immaterial genome", with reference to Neoplatonism.
I'm not discounting that position, but do find it surprising! Would this >>>> be a new creationist category, something like Continuous Creation? Some >>>> may have less complimentary suggestions.
Anyway, enjoy (Ron, you may need medical attention after reading these): >>>>
https://scienceandculture.com/2025/05/the-immaterial-genome-richard-sternbergs-labor-of-love/
https://scienceandculture.com/2025/04/the-math-behind-the-immaterial-genome/
______________
[1] FROM ONE CELL TO A HUMAN BEING: AN OVERVIEW OF THE PROCESS AND ITS >>>> MYSTERIES
*Fertilisation* begins when a sperm and ovum fuse to form a single cell: >>>> the *zygote*. In that moment, a new, genetically unique human organism >>>> exists. Yet nothing visible distinguishes this cell from countless
others. What follows is one of the most extraordinary processes known in >>>> nature.
---
## 1. Exponential division without growth: cleavage
Within hours, the zygote begins dividing: 1 cell becomes 2, then 4, 8, >>>> 16, and so on. These early divisions, called *cleavage*, are remarkable >>>> because the total size of the embryo does not increase. Instead, the
original cytoplasm is partitioned into ever-smaller cells.
Key features:
* Division is rapid and tightly synchronized.
* Cells remain enclosed in the original outer membrane.
* The embryo reaches ~100 cells in a few days.
*What is striking:*
All cells initially appear equivalent, yet they are already on
trajectories that will lead to radically different fates.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How early asymmetriesrCosubtle differences in molecular concentrations, >>>> mechanics, and timingrCobias later cell fate decisions with such reliability.
---
## 2. Self-organisation and implantation: the blastocyst
After several days, the embryo reorganises into a *blastocyst*rCoa hollow >>>> structure with:
* an *inner cell mass* (which will become the body),
* and an *outer layer* (which will help form the placenta).
The blastocyst implants into the uterine wall, establishing a
biochemical dialogue with the mother that allows pregnancy to continue. >>>>
*What is striking:*
This organisation emerges without a central controller. Cells rCLdeciderCY >>>> their roles through local interactions, gene regulation, and physical
constraints.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How global structure arises so robustly from local rules, and why
implantation succeeds or fails so often despite apparently normal embryos. >>>>
---
## 3. The body plan appears: gastrulation
Around the third week, the embryo undergoes *gastrulation*, often called >>>> *the most important event in your life*. A simple sheet of cells folds >>>> and rearranges to form three foundational layers:
* *Ectoderm* ? nervous system, skin
* *Mesoderm* ? muscle, bone, blood, heart
* *Endoderm* ? gut, liver, lungs
From this point onward, the basic body axesrCohead to tail, back to
front, left to rightrCoare established.
*What is striking:*
A consistent human body plan emerges from dramatic cellular movements
that look, under a microscope, almost chaotic.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How genetic instructions, chemical gradients, and mechanical forces are >>>> integrated in real time to yield precise, repeatable anatomy.
---
## 4. Differentiation and organ formation: organogenesis
Cells now differentiate into hundreds of specialised types and assemble >>>> into organs. Neural cells wire themselves into circuits. Blood vessels >>>> branch through tissues. The heart begins beating while still forming.
Cell numbers increase exponentially, eventually reaching *tens of
trillions*, yet:
* proportions are maintained,
* leftrCoright symmetry is mostly preserved,
* errors are detected and corrected.
*What is striking:*
No cell rCLknowsrCY the whole plan, yet the whole plan reliably appears. >>>>
*What we do not fully understand:*
* How large-scale structures (like vascular trees or neural
connectivity) are specified without explicit blueprints
* How errors are corrected without derailing development
* How timing is coordinated across vastly different scales
---
## 5. Uniqueness emerges
Although humans share a common body plan, no two individuals are the
same. Small genetic differences, epigenetic marks, maternal factors, and >>>> environmental influences interact throughout development to shape:
* brain wiring,
* facial structure,
* physiology,
* and predispositions across a lifetime.
*What is striking:*
Uniqueness is not added at the endrCoit emerges continuously, from the >>>> very first divisions.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How early microscopic differences propagate into macroscopic
individuality, especially in the brain.
---
## The deeper wonder
From a single cell, governed by chemistry and physics, arises:
* consciousness,
* memory,
* creativity,
* moral agency.
This happens not through rigid instruction, but through a *deeply
interdependent, multiscale process* that blends genetic rules, physical >>>> law, cellular context, and self-organisation.
Despite immense progress in molecular biology and embryology, we still lack:
* a complete causal map from genes to form,
* a full explanation of robustness and error correction,
* and a unifying theory of biological development comparable to those in >>>> physics.
*In short:*
We understand many of the parts. We understand some of the rules.
But how those rules so reliably give rise to a new, unique human being >>>> remains one of the most profound and humbling questions in science.
(ChatGPT)
______________
[2] THE HUMAN BODY COMPRISES 11 MAJOR PHYSIOLOGICAL SYSTEMS
Each exhibiting high functional complexity through scale, precision, and >>>> cross-system integration.
1. The *nervous system* provides rapid information processing, with ~86 >>>> billion neurons and ~10-|?rCo10-|? synapses enabling millisecond-scale >>>> control while consuming ~20% of resting metabolic energy. Humans possess >>>> ~2rCo3|u more cortical neurons than great apes, and this difference alone >>>> implies orders of magnitude greater combinatorial processing capacity, >>>> given synaptic scaling; human prefrontal cortex expansion to ~25rCo30% of >>>> the total cortex gives disproportionately dense long-range connections >>>> enabling abstract reasoning, symbolic thought, counterfactual planning, >>>> and recursive language.
2. The *circulatory system* sustains organism-wide transport via
~100,000 km of blood vessels and a heart that beats ~100,000 times per >>>> day, continuously distributing oxygen, nutrients, hormones, and immune >>>> cells.
3. The *respiratory system* enables gas exchange through ~300 million
alveoli generating ~70 m-# of surface area, processing ~10,000 liters of >>>> air per day.
4. The *digestive system* converts food into bioavailable energy along a >>>> ~9 m tract, with ~30rCo40 trillion gut microbes and ~30rCo40 m-# of
absorptive surface area in the small intestine.
5. The *endocrine system* coordinates long-range regulation using
hormones effective at picomolarrConanomolar concentrations, exerting
organism-wide control through nested feedback loops.
6. The *immune system* provides adaptive defense with ~10-|-|rCo10-|-# active
immune cells and the capacity to generate >10-|-# distinct antibody
variants with long-term memory.
7. The *musculoskeletal system* enables movement and structural support >>>> through ~206 bones and ~600 muscles, with continuous mechanical loading >>>> and bone remodeling (~5rCo10% annually).
8. The *integumentary system* forms a multifunctional protective
interface covering ~1.5rCo2.0 m-# and containing ~20 billion cells,
integrating mechanical protection, sensation, and immune signaling.
9. The *urinary (renal) system* maintains chemical homeostasis by
filtering ~180 liters of blood per day across ~2 million nephrons,
reabsorbing >99% of filtrate with high selectivity.
10. The *reproductive system* supports species continuity through
hormonally regulated gamete production (up to hundreds of millions of
sperm per day in males) and cyclic reproductive physiology in females. >>>>
11. The *lymphatic system* complements circulation and immunity by
returning ~2rCo4 liters of interstitial fluid daily and coordinating
immune surveillance across hundreds of lymph nodes.
Taken together, these systems form a deeply interdependent, multiscale >>>> biological architecture, in which trillions of components are
dynamically regulated with molecular precision to maintain stability,
adaptability, and continuity of the human organism.
(ChatGPT)
On 1/6/2026 6:16 PM, MarkE wrote:
On 7/01/2026 3:43 am, RonO wrote:
On 1/6/2026 8:13 AM, MarkE wrote:
I've recently claimed here that the 80 megabytes of information in
the functional portion of the human genome is wildly insufficient to
specify the development of a human [1] into the system that is us
[2]. I've suggested that the "missing" information must be located
in the ovum's cytoplasm, organelles and membrane.
I've directly asked a number of contributors here if they believe 80
MB is sufficient to specify a human. This has generally been met
with silence. I can understand why, after an even cursory
consideration of [1] and [2]. Moreover, the implications of this for
evolutionary theory and biology are profound.
Anyway, it seems that ID agrees with me. This may not help convince
you, but I'm encouraged that others think this is an issue that
needs attention.
If you're unfamiliar, what you may find interesting is ID's proposed
solution: an "immaterial genome", with reference to Neoplatonism.
I'm not discounting that position, but do find it surprising! Would
this be a new creationist category, something like Continuous
Creation? Some may have less complimentary suggestions.
Anyway, enjoy (Ron, you may need medical attention after reading
these):
https://scienceandculture.com/2025/05/the-immaterial-genome-richard-
sternbergs-labor-of-love/
https://scienceandculture.com/2025/04/the-math-behind-the-
immaterial- genome/
______________
Nothing to crow about.
My point is the opposite - I shared ID's "immaterial genome" proposal
here expecting it to be enthusiastically criticised. (It may be old
news to you, I hadn't come across it before.)
It is simply nothing to crow about.-a It has always been understood to exist, but no one has ever figured out a means to quantify it, so the ID perps never considered it and had decided to lie about something that
they could quantify, but that wasn't really the issue.-a It is just like
the failure of IC where Behe had to admit that IC systems could evolve
by natural mechanisms, and that he could never quantify the aspects of
the system that he claimed made his IC systems unable to evolve.-a He
never was able to define well matched so that it could be determined to exist in enough quantity to make the flagellum his type of IC, and he
was never able to determine how many parts were too many to be evolvable.
Sternberg can't even begin to work with the information that is actually
the issue.-a All he can do is make his bogus claims about it supporting
the ID bait and switch scam.
One upside though is support for the information problem I've identified.
It was common knowledge that this information existed and that extant
life depended on it, so Sternberg isn't pointing out anything that
wasn't already understood decades ago.-a As a genetics major at Berkeley
in the late 1970's we were required to take a class called Topics in Genetics.-a It wasn't just current topics, but issues that had, had been issues decades before like McClintock's transposable element research
from the 1930's and 40's.-a One of the topics was breaking cellular
cycles and was maize research from the 1950's.-a I can't remember the
name of the researcher, but he was dealing with a nuclear mutation that messed up chloroplasts.-a The chloroplasts could not be reactivated by crossing pollen from a wild-type plant to the defective plant.-a This
would restore a functional nuclear gene, but the chloroplasts were not restored.-a You could do the reciprocal cross with defective pollen
crossed to a wild-type plant and those heterozygotes had functional chloroplasts, but selfs of that plant would produce homozygous mutants
that would again have defective chloroplasts.
The researcher proposed that part of what it takes to make a functional
cell had been lost in the homozygous mutants and had to be restored by putting the genetics into another fully functional cell.-a Descent with modification produces new lifeforms, but every change has to work within what is already working.-a In this case some cellular function was lost
that had been maintained by all cells coming from preexisting cells, and that function had to be restored by crossing the defective cell to a
fully functional cell.
This just means that Sternbergs new information scam has been understood
to exist in biology since at least the 1950's, and likely long before
that when cell theory was formulated.
All cells come from preexisting cells is a core tenet of modern cell theory.-a Genetics had to be fully consistent with cell theory.-a This new information is just as useless to the ID scam as IC well matched parts,
and for the same reason.-a We do not know exactly what it is, and it
can't be quantified to any degree useful for ID perp denial.-a The information that exists today has been evolving for billions of years
and passed down each cellular generation.
How long have I been claiming that the genetic code information denial
was bogus?-a Was the code ever the information that was important for a functioning cell?-a This new information denial is just as bogus.
Ron Okimoto
The ID perps are just getting around to admitting that they have been
bogusly in denial of something that they never understood.-a All the
denial about the genome and genetic code was just dishonest
stupidity.-a They never understood the information that really existed.
All this means is that they should now understand that they have to
start lying about something that isn't fully understood, and that
they can't quantify in order to claim that there is too much of it to
have had to accumulate by natural means.
How can you claim that there is an issue if you do not understand the
issue enough to figure out if there is a problem or not?
The genetic code isn't the information that life depends on.-a It has
always been understood that a cell is more than it's genome, and that
the products of the genetic code depended on the 3 dimensional
information created by the RNA and protein products of genes.-a This
encoded information has to work within what 3 dimensional information
that already exists in the cell.-a All changes have to work within
what is already working.-a This had to be true before the genetic code
evolved.-a All the genetic code has done is that it has improved the
efficiency of the reproduction of the cell, and it has grown in
function to direct the development of multicellular organisms from a
single cell. -a-aThe genome needs a fully functional cell in order to
do this, and every functional addition had to work within what had
already been working.
All the ID perps are admitting to is that they never had an argument
in the first place because they never understood what they were lying
about, and they still do not understand what they are lying about in
order to make any type of rational argument.
Just think about this for a moment.-a Sternberg has claimed that he
has been thinking about this issue for a long time.-a He is the ID
perp that dishonestly got Meyer's Cambrian explosion nonsense peer
reviewed by his chosen reviewers.-a He subsequently quit science (he
was never fired nor did he lose his office space) and quit
participating in the scientific endeavor.-a His most recent scientific
publication on his web page is from 2005, and he joined the ID perp
scam outfit in 2007 in order to support the bait and switch scam.-a He
could not use his scientific expertise to support the ID scam, so he
spent around 8 years messing with gaps in the whale fossil record (he
was an invertebrate taxonomist, but decided to prevaricate about
whale evolution).-a Behe destroyed his gap stupidity by claiming that
whale evolution was just the type of evolution expected to have
occurred by Darwinian mechanisms in 2014. Behe was really claiming
that his designer would have done it some other way.-a Behe tried to
denigrate that type of biological evolution by calling it
"devolution" but evolution is evolution.-a Sternberg had to start
working on something new, so he is getting around to admitting that
the ID perps have never been lying about what they should have been
lying about in the first place.
Ron Okimoto
[1] FROM ONE CELL TO A HUMAN BEING: AN OVERVIEW OF THE PROCESS AND
ITS MYSTERIES
*Fertilisation* begins when a sperm and ovum fuse to form a single
cell: the *zygote*. In that moment, a new, genetically unique human
organism exists. Yet nothing visible distinguishes this cell from
countless others. What follows is one of the most extraordinary
processes known in nature.
---
## 1. Exponential division without growth: cleavage
Within hours, the zygote begins dividing: 1 cell becomes 2, then 4,
8, 16, and so on. These early divisions, called *cleavage*, are
remarkable because the total size of the embryo does not increase.
Instead, the original cytoplasm is partitioned into ever-smaller cells. >>>>
Key features:
* Division is rapid and tightly synchronized.
* Cells remain enclosed in the original outer membrane.
* The embryo reaches ~100 cells in a few days.
*What is striking:*
All cells initially appear equivalent, yet they are already on
trajectories that will lead to radically different fates.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How early asymmetriesrCosubtle differences in molecular
concentrations, mechanics, and timingrCobias later cell fate decisions >>>> with such reliability.
---
## 2. Self-organisation and implantation: the blastocyst
After several days, the embryo reorganises into a *blastocyst*rCoa
hollow structure with:
* an *inner cell mass* (which will become the body),
* and an *outer layer* (which will help form the placenta).
The blastocyst implants into the uterine wall, establishing a
biochemical dialogue with the mother that allows pregnancy to continue. >>>>
*What is striking:*
This organisation emerges without a central controller. Cells
rCLdeciderCY their roles through local interactions, gene regulation, >>>> and physical constraints.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How global structure arises so robustly from local rules, and why
implantation succeeds or fails so often despite apparently normal
embryos.
---
## 3. The body plan appears: gastrulation
Around the third week, the embryo undergoes *gastrulation*, often
called *the most important event in your life*. A simple sheet of
cells folds and rearranges to form three foundational layers:
* *Ectoderm* raA nervous system, skin
* *Mesoderm* raA muscle, bone, blood, heart
* *Endoderm* raA gut, liver, lungs
-aFrom this point onward, the basic body axesrCohead to tail, back to >>>> front, left to rightrCoare established.
*What is striking:*
A consistent human body plan emerges from dramatic cellular
movements that look, under a microscope, almost chaotic.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How genetic instructions, chemical gradients, and mechanical forces
are integrated in real time to yield precise, repeatable anatomy.
---
## 4. Differentiation and organ formation: organogenesis
Cells now differentiate into hundreds of specialised types and
assemble into organs. Neural cells wire themselves into circuits.
Blood vessels branch through tissues. The heart begins beating while
still forming.
Cell numbers increase exponentially, eventually reaching *tens of
trillions*, yet:
* proportions are maintained,
* leftrCoright symmetry is mostly preserved,
* errors are detected and corrected.
*What is striking:*
No cell rCLknowsrCY the whole plan, yet the whole plan reliably appears. >>>>
*What we do not fully understand:*
* How large-scale structures (like vascular trees or neural
connectivity) are specified without explicit blueprints
* How errors are corrected without derailing development
* How timing is coordinated across vastly different scales
---
## 5. Uniqueness emerges
Although humans share a common body plan, no two individuals are the
same. Small genetic differences, epigenetic marks, maternal factors,
and environmental influences interact throughout development to shape: >>>>
* brain wiring,
* facial structure,
* physiology,
* and predispositions across a lifetime.
*What is striking:*
Uniqueness is not added at the endrCoit emerges continuously, from the >>>> very first divisions.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How early microscopic differences propagate into macroscopic
individuality, especially in the brain.
---
## The deeper wonder
-aFrom a single cell, governed by chemistry and physics, arises:
* consciousness,
* memory,
* creativity,
* moral agency.
This happens not through rigid instruction, but through a *deeply
interdependent, multiscale process* that blends genetic rules,
physical law, cellular context, and self-organisation.
Despite immense progress in molecular biology and embryology, we
still lack:
* a complete causal map from genes to form,
* a full explanation of robustness and error correction,
* and a unifying theory of biological development comparable to
those in physics.
*In short:*
We understand many of the parts. We understand some of the rules.
But how those rules so reliably give rise to a new, unique human
being remains one of the most profound and humbling questions in
science.
(ChatGPT)
______________
[2] THE HUMAN BODY COMPRISES 11 MAJOR PHYSIOLOGICAL SYSTEMS
Each exhibiting high functional complexity through scale, precision,
and cross-system integration.
1. The *nervous system* provides rapid information processing, with
~86 billion neurons and ~10-|rU|rCo10-|rU| synapses enabling millisecond- >>>> scale control while consuming ~20% of resting metabolic energy.
Humans possess ~2rCo3|u more cortical neurons than great apes, and this >>>> difference alone implies orders of magnitude greater combinatorial
processing capacity, given synaptic scaling; human prefrontal cortex
expansion to ~25rCo30% of the total cortex gives disproportionately
dense long-range connections enabling abstract reasoning, symbolic
thought, counterfactual planning, and recursive language.
2. The *circulatory system* sustains organism-wide transport via
~100,000 km of blood vessels and a heart that beats ~100,000 times
per day, continuously distributing oxygen, nutrients, hormones, and
immune cells.
3. The *respiratory system* enables gas exchange through ~300
million alveoli generating ~70 m-# of surface area, processing
~10,000 liters of air per day.
4. The *digestive system* converts food into bioavailable energy
along a ~9 m tract, with ~30rCo40 trillion gut microbes and ~30rCo40 m-# >>>> of absorptive surface area in the small intestine.
5. The *endocrine system* coordinates long-range regulation using
hormones effective at picomolarrConanomolar concentrations, exerting
organism-wide control through nested feedback loops.
6. The *immune system* provides adaptive defense with ~10-|-|rCo10-|-# >>>> active immune cells and the capacity to generate >10-|-# distinct
antibody variants with long-term memory.
7. The *musculoskeletal system* enables movement and structural
support through ~206 bones and ~600 muscles, with continuous
mechanical loading and bone remodeling (~5rCo10% annually).
8. The *integumentary system* forms a multifunctional protective
interface covering ~1.5rCo2.0 m-# and containing ~20 billion cells,
integrating mechanical protection, sensation, and immune signaling.
9. The *urinary (renal) system* maintains chemical homeostasis by
filtering ~180 liters of blood per day across ~2 million nephrons,
reabsorbing >99% of filtrate with high selectivity.
10. The *reproductive system* supports species continuity through
hormonally regulated gamete production (up to hundreds of millions
of sperm per day in males) and cyclic reproductive physiology in
females.
11. The *lymphatic system* complements circulation and immunity by
returning ~2rCo4 liters of interstitial fluid daily and coordinating
immune surveillance across hundreds of lymph nodes.
Taken together, these systems form a deeply interdependent,
multiscale biological architecture, in which trillions of components
are dynamically regulated with molecular precision to maintain
stability, adaptability, and continuity of the human organism.
(ChatGPT)
On 1/7/2026 5:15 AM, MarkE wrote:
On 7/01/2026 8:24 am, RonO wrote:
Here is the strongest argument for the ID scam.
https://scienceandculture.com/2026/01/the-strongest-argument-for-
intelligent-design-is-also-the-simplest/
You just have to have no knowledge of physics, chemistry nor how
biological evolution works to think that it is any valid argument at
all.
Ron Okimoto
Off topic, but I'm curious to know your view on the first-cause/
cosmological argument?
You are having this discussion with another creationist, just one more honest than the ones that you associate with.-a You should know that creationists have no solution to the first-cause argument.-a You can
think that God existed before the Big Bang, but that doesn't solve the ultimate first-cause issue.-a Something likely existed before the Big
Bang, but we don't know what that could be.-a The pure energy or quark- gluon plasma that existed at the start of the Big Bang would have come
from somewhere.-a All we have to look at is our little piece of the
cosmos, and we don't know what exists out side of the Big Bang's influence.
I find Roger Penrose's position revealing. He recognises that this
argument has weight, and attempts to avoid an absolute space/time
beginning (and thus a rCLfirst causerCY) without invoking a multiverse or >> speculative quantum creation from nothing with his Conformal Cyclic
Cosmology (CCC).
Thanks Roger for confirming that (i) the first-cause problem is real;
(ii) current materialist hypotheses are doubtful at best; and (iii)
materialists are willing to try any amount of mathematical gymnastics
(e.g. CCC) to avoid the God hypothesis.
The first cause issue is real for everyone including creationists.-a What caused some god to exist?-a This god would have to be able to interact
with his creation in order to make you happy.-a This god would have had
to be able to manipulate things in our universe so that 8 billion years
of dying stars would produce a dust and gas cloud with the right mix of elements to make life possible in our star poor region of the milky way galaxy 4.5 billion years ago.
Nyikos was a creationist that became an IDiot early in the beginning of
the ID scam when it came to TO in the late 1990's.-a Nyikos is the type
of creationist IDiot that no one should want to be like.-a Nyikos was not anti evolution, but was always dishonest about why he supported the ID
scam, and he had his space alien fantasy to lie about ID being
scientific. Nyikos claimed that he regularly attended Catholic Mass, but that, that didn't mean that he supported the ID scam for religious reasons.-a Pathetically, Nyikos was the type of Biblical creationist that believed in a god that you could lie to and expect to get what you
wanted.-a I think that Nyikos was the only creationist on TO that ever supported Pascal's wager as something that was viable.-a You have to have
a pretty pathetic view of your god to think that claiming to believe in
that god would be enough ass kissing to get your just reward.
Ron Okimoto
On 8/01/2026 8:10 pm, jillery wrote:
On Wed, 7 Jan 2026 23:38:12 +1100, MarkE <me22over7@gmail.com> wrote:
On 7/01/2026 11:16 pm, jillery wrote:
On Wed, 7 Jan 2026 01:13:42 +1100, MarkE <me22over7@gmail.com> wrote:
I've recently claimed here that the 80 megabytes of information in the >>>>> functional portion of the human genome is wildly insufficient to
specify
the development of a human [1] into the system that is us [2]. I've
suggested that the "missing" information must be located in the ovum's >>>>> cytoplasm, organelles and membrane.
I've directly asked a number of contributors here if they believe
80 MB
is sufficient to specify a human. This has generally been met with
silence. I can understand why, after an even cursory consideration of >>>>> [1] and [2]. Moreover, the implications of this for evolutionary
theory
and biology are profound.
That silence is the sound of one hand clapping, as all wait for you to >>>> say on what basis you think 80 MB is *insufficient* to specify a
human.
Do you think 80 MB is sufficient to specify [1] and [2]?
Why avoid supporting your own claim?-a If I say it's sufficient, will
you then demand I provide evidence to show that it is, so you can
continue to avoid saying on what basis you think 80 MB is
insufficient?
I've already stated that I am not able to calculate a specific estimate. However, given that (i) [1] and [2] describe a system with functional complexity exceeding anything we have made*; and (ii) we know that 80 MB represents relatively a very small amount of information; then a
reasonable inference is that much greater than / orders of magnitude
greater than 80 MB is required.
I won't ask you to calculate or provide an estimate (though please do if
you can). But I will ask you again, do you think 80 MB is sufficient?
Anyway, it seems that ID agrees with me. This may not help convince >>>>> you,
but I'm encouraged that others think this is an issue that needs
attention.
If you're unfamiliar, what you may find interesting is ID's proposed >>>>> solution: an "immaterial genome", with reference to Neoplatonism.
I'm not discounting that position, but do find it surprising! Would >>>>> this
be a new creationist category, something like Continuous Creation?
Some
may have less complimentary suggestions.
Anyway, enjoy (Ron, you may need medical attention after reading
these):
https://scienceandculture.com/2025/05/the-immaterial-genome-
richard-sternbergs-labor-of-love/
https://scienceandculture.com/2025/04/the-math-behind-the-
immaterial-genome/
______________
[1] FROM ONE CELL TO A HUMAN BEING: AN OVERVIEW OF THE PROCESS AND ITS >>>>> MYSTERIES
*Fertilisation* begins when a sperm and ovum fuse to form a single
cell:
the *zygote*. In that moment, a new, genetically unique human organism >>>>> exists. Yet nothing visible distinguishes this cell from countless
others. What follows is one of the most extraordinary processes
known in
nature.
---
## 1. Exponential division without growth: cleavage
Within hours, the zygote begins dividing: 1 cell becomes 2, then 4, 8, >>>>> 16, and so on. These early divisions, called *cleavage*, are
remarkable
because the total size of the embryo does not increase. Instead, the >>>>> original cytoplasm is partitioned into ever-smaller cells.
Key features:
* Division is rapid and tightly synchronized.
* Cells remain enclosed in the original outer membrane.
* The embryo reaches ~100 cells in a few days.
*What is striking:*
All cells initially appear equivalent, yet they are already on
trajectories that will lead to radically different fates.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How early asymmetriesrCosubtle differences in molecular concentrations, >>>>> mechanics, and timingrCobias later cell fate decisions with such
reliability.
---
## 2. Self-organisation and implantation: the blastocyst
After several days, the embryo reorganises into a *blastocyst*rCoa
hollow
structure with:
* an *inner cell mass* (which will become the body),
* and an *outer layer* (which will help form the placenta).
The blastocyst implants into the uterine wall, establishing a
biochemical dialogue with the mother that allows pregnancy to
continue.
*What is striking:*
This organisation emerges without a central controller. Cells rCLdeciderCY
their roles through local interactions, gene regulation, and physical >>>>> constraints.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How global structure arises so robustly from local rules, and why
implantation succeeds or fails so often despite apparently normal
embryos.
---
## 3. The body plan appears: gastrulation
Around the third week, the embryo undergoes *gastrulation*, often
called
*the most important event in your life*. A simple sheet of cells folds >>>>> and rearranges to form three foundational layers:
* *Ectoderm* ? nervous system, skin
* *Mesoderm* ? muscle, bone, blood, heart
* *Endoderm* ? gut, liver, lungs
-a From this point onward, the basic body axesrCohead to tail, back to >>>>> front, left to rightrCoare established.
*What is striking:*
A consistent human body plan emerges from dramatic cellular movements >>>>> that look, under a microscope, almost chaotic.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How genetic instructions, chemical gradients, and mechanical forces >>>>> are
integrated in real time to yield precise, repeatable anatomy.
---
## 4. Differentiation and organ formation: organogenesis
Cells now differentiate into hundreds of specialised types and
assemble
into organs. Neural cells wire themselves into circuits. Blood vessels >>>>> branch through tissues. The heart begins beating while still forming. >>>>>
Cell numbers increase exponentially, eventually reaching *tens of
trillions*, yet:
* proportions are maintained,
* leftrCoright symmetry is mostly preserved,
* errors are detected and corrected.
*What is striking:*
No cell rCLknowsrCY the whole plan, yet the whole plan reliably appears. >>>>>
*What we do not fully understand:*
* How large-scale structures (like vascular trees or neural
connectivity) are specified without explicit blueprints
* How errors are corrected without derailing development
* How timing is coordinated across vastly different scales
---
## 5. Uniqueness emerges
Although humans share a common body plan, no two individuals are the >>>>> same. Small genetic differences, epigenetic marks, maternal
factors, and
environmental influences interact throughout development to shape:
* brain wiring,
* facial structure,
* physiology,
* and predispositions across a lifetime.
*What is striking:*
Uniqueness is not added at the endrCoit emerges continuously, from the >>>>> very first divisions.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How early microscopic differences propagate into macroscopic
individuality, especially in the brain.
---
## The deeper wonder
-a From a single cell, governed by chemistry and physics, arises:
* consciousness,
* memory,
* creativity,
* moral agency.
This happens not through rigid instruction, but through a *deeply
interdependent, multiscale process* that blends genetic rules,
physical
law, cellular context, and self-organisation.
Despite immense progress in molecular biology and embryology, we
still lack:
* a complete causal map from genes to form,
* a full explanation of robustness and error correction,
* and a unifying theory of biological development comparable to
those in
physics.
*In short:*
We understand many of the parts. We understand some of the rules.
But how those rules so reliably give rise to a new, unique human being >>>>> remains one of the most profound and humbling questions in science.
(ChatGPT)
______________
[2] THE HUMAN BODY COMPRISES 11 MAJOR PHYSIOLOGICAL SYSTEMS
Each exhibiting high functional complexity through scale,
precision, and
cross-system integration.
1. The *nervous system* provides rapid information processing, with >>>>> ~86
billion neurons and ~10-|?rCo10-|? synapses enabling millisecond-scale >>>>> control while consuming ~20% of resting metabolic energy. Humans
possess
~2rCo3|u more cortical neurons than great apes, and this difference alone >>>>> implies orders of magnitude greater combinatorial processing capacity, >>>>> given synaptic scaling; human prefrontal cortex expansion to ~25rCo >>>>> 30% of
the total cortex gives disproportionately dense long-range connections >>>>> enabling abstract reasoning, symbolic thought, counterfactual
planning,
and recursive language.
2. The *circulatory system* sustains organism-wide transport via
~100,000 km of blood vessels and a heart that beats ~100,000 times per >>>>> day, continuously distributing oxygen, nutrients, hormones, and immune >>>>> cells.
3. The *respiratory system* enables gas exchange through ~300 million >>>>> alveoli generating ~70 m-# of surface area, processing ~10,000
liters of
air per day.
4. The *digestive system* converts food into bioavailable energy
along a
~9 m tract, with ~30rCo40 trillion gut microbes and ~30rCo40 m-# of
absorptive surface area in the small intestine.
5. The *endocrine system* coordinates long-range regulation using
hormones effective at picomolarrConanomolar concentrations, exerting >>>>> organism-wide control through nested feedback loops.
6. The *immune system* provides adaptive defense with ~10-|-|rCo10-|-# >>>>> active
immune cells and the capacity to generate >10-|-# distinct antibody
variants with long-term memory.
7. The *musculoskeletal system* enables movement and structural
support
through ~206 bones and ~600 muscles, with continuous mechanical
loading
and bone remodeling (~5rCo10% annually).
8. The *integumentary system* forms a multifunctional protective
interface covering ~1.5rCo2.0 m-# and containing ~20 billion cells,
integrating mechanical protection, sensation, and immune signaling.
9. The *urinary (renal) system* maintains chemical homeostasis by
filtering ~180 liters of blood per day across ~2 million nephrons,
reabsorbing >99% of filtrate with high selectivity.
10. The *reproductive system* supports species continuity through
hormonally regulated gamete production (up to hundreds of millions of >>>>> sperm per day in males) and cyclic reproductive physiology in females. >>>>>
11. The *lymphatic system* complements circulation and immunity by
returning ~2rCo4 liters of interstitial fluid daily and coordinating >>>>> immune surveillance across hundreds of lymph nodes.
Taken together, these systems form a deeply interdependent, multiscale >>>>> biological architecture, in which trillions of components are
dynamically regulated with molecular precision to maintain stability, >>>>> adaptability, and continuity of the human organism.
(ChatGPT)
On 8/01/2026 8:10 pm, jillery wrote:
On Wed, 7 Jan 2026 23:38:12 +1100, MarkE <me22over7@gmail.com> wrote:
On 7/01/2026 11:16 pm, jillery wrote:
On Wed, 7 Jan 2026 01:13:42 +1100, MarkE <me22over7@gmail.com> wrote:
I've recently claimed here that the 80 megabytes of information in the >>>> functional portion of the human genome is wildly insufficient to specify >>>> the development of a human [1] into the system that is us [2]. I've
suggested that the "missing" information must be located in the ovum's >>>> cytoplasm, organelles and membrane.
I've directly asked a number of contributors here if they believe 80 MB >>>> is sufficient to specify a human. This has generally been met with
silence. I can understand why, after an even cursory consideration of >>>> [1] and [2]. Moreover, the implications of this for evolutionary theory >>>> and biology are profound.
That silence is the sound of one hand clapping, as all wait for you to >>> say on what basis you think 80 MB is *insufficient* to specify a
human.
Do you think 80 MB is sufficient to specify [1] and [2]?
Why avoid supporting your own claim? If I say it's sufficient, will
you then demand I provide evidence to show that it is, so you can
continue to avoid saying on what basis you think 80 MB is
insufficient?
I've already stated that I am not able to calculate a specific
estimate. However, given that (i) [1] and [2] describe a system with functional complexity exceeding anything we have made*; and (ii) we know that 80 MB represents relatively a very small amount of information;
then a reasonable inference is that much greater than / orders of
magnitude greater than 80 MB is required.
I won't ask you to calculate or provide an estimate (though please do if
you can). But I will ask you again, do you think 80 MB is sufficient?
[]Anyway, it seems that ID agrees with me. This may not help convince you, >>>> but I'm encouraged that others think this is an issue that needs attention.
If you're unfamiliar, what you may find interesting is ID's proposed >>>> solution: an "immaterial genome", with reference to Neoplatonism.
I'm not discounting that position, but do find it surprising! Would this >>>> be a new creationist category, something like Continuous Creation? Some >>>> may have less complimentary suggestions.
On 8/01/2026 4:17 am, RonO wrote:
On 1/6/2026 6:16 PM, MarkE wrote:
On 7/01/2026 3:43 am, RonO wrote:
On 1/6/2026 8:13 AM, MarkE wrote:
I've recently claimed here that the 80 megabytes of information in
the functional portion of the human genome is wildly insufficient
to specify the development of a human [1] into the system that is
us [2]. I've suggested that the "missing" information must be
located in the ovum's cytoplasm, organelles and membrane.
I've directly asked a number of contributors here if they believe
80 MB is sufficient to specify a human. This has generally been met >>>>> with silence. I can understand why, after an even cursory
consideration of [1] and [2]. Moreover, the implications of this
for evolutionary theory and biology are profound.
Anyway, it seems that ID agrees with me. This may not help convince >>>>> you, but I'm encouraged that others think this is an issue that
needs attention.
If you're unfamiliar, what you may find interesting is ID's
proposed solution: an "immaterial genome", with reference to
Neoplatonism.
I'm not discounting that position, but do find it surprising! Would >>>>> this be a new creationist category, something like Continuous
Creation? Some may have less complimentary suggestions.
Anyway, enjoy (Ron, you may need medical attention after reading
these):
https://scienceandculture.com/2025/05/the-immaterial-genome-
richard- sternbergs-labor-of-love/
https://scienceandculture.com/2025/04/the-math-behind-the-
immaterial- genome/
______________
Nothing to crow about.
My point is the opposite - I shared ID's "immaterial genome" proposal
here expecting it to be enthusiastically criticised. (It may be old
news to you, I hadn't come across it before.)
It is simply nothing to crow about.-a It has always been understood to
exist, but no one has ever figured out a means to quantify it, so the
ID perps never considered it and had decided to lie about something
that they could quantify, but that wasn't really the issue.-a It is
just like the failure of IC where Behe had to admit that IC systems
could evolve by natural mechanisms, and that he could never quantify
the aspects of the system that he claimed made his IC systems unable
to evolve.-a He never was able to define well matched so that it could
be determined to exist in enough quantity to make the flagellum his
type of IC, and he was never able to determine how many parts were too
many to be evolvable.
Sternberg can't even begin to work with the information that is
actually the issue.-a All he can do is make his bogus claims about it
supporting the ID bait and switch scam.
To clarify further, rather than crowing, I'm actually almost sheepishly acknowledging ID's appeal to an immaterial genome. I thought that idea
might cop some flak. I'm not dismissing it by any means, but tbh it's
not an option I've given consideration.
One upside though is support for the information problem I've
identified.
It was common knowledge that this information existed and that extant
life depended on it, so Sternberg isn't pointing out anything that
wasn't already understood decades ago.-a As a genetics major at
Berkeley in the late 1970's we were required to take a class called
Topics in Genetics.-a It wasn't just current topics, but issues that
had, had been issues decades before like McClintock's transposable
element research from the 1930's and 40's.-a One of the topics was
breaking cellular cycles and was maize research from the 1950's.-a I
can't remember the name of the researcher, but he was dealing with a
nuclear mutation that messed up chloroplasts.-a The chloroplasts could
not be reactivated by crossing pollen from a wild-type plant to the
defective plant.-a This would restore a functional nuclear gene, but
the chloroplasts were not restored.-a You could do the reciprocal cross
with defective pollen crossed to a wild-type plant and those
heterozygotes had functional chloroplasts, but selfs of that plant
would produce homozygous mutants that would again have defective
chloroplasts.
The researcher proposed that part of what it takes to make a
functional cell had been lost in the homozygous mutants and had to be
restored by putting the genetics into another fully functional cell.
Descent with modification produces new lifeforms, but every change has
to work within what is already working.-a In this case some cellular
function was lost that had been maintained by all cells coming from
preexisting cells, and that function had to be restored by crossing
the defective cell to a fully functional cell.
This just means that Sternbergs new information scam has been
understood to exist in biology since at least the 1950's, and likely
long before that when cell theory was formulated.
All cells come from preexisting cells is a core tenet of modern cell
theory.-a Genetics had to be fully consistent with cell theory.-a This
new information is just as useless to the ID scam as IC well matched
parts, and for the same reason.-a We do not know exactly what it is,
and it can't be quantified to any degree useful for ID perp denial.
The information that exists today has been evolving for billions of
years and passed down each cellular generation.
How long have I been claiming that the genetic code information denial
was bogus?-a Was the code ever the information that was important for a
functioning cell?-a This new information denial is just as bogus.
Just checking if I understand you correctly. I think you're agreeing
that the ovum must contain significant amounts of information (as well
as the functional portion of the genome) to specify the resulting organism?
If yes, then it seems that this information is NOT considered in the mechanisms and mathematics of evolution. Rather, with the gene-centric paradigm it's all about DNA mutations, population genetics, etc. The extra-genomic information is, as far as I know, not in scope and not analysed. And that seems like a problem - a fundamental problem.
What do you think?
Ron Okimoto
The ID perps are just getting around to admitting that they have
been bogusly in denial of something that they never understood.-a All >>>> the denial about the genome and genetic code was just dishonest
stupidity.-a They never understood the information that really existed. >>>>
All this means is that they should now understand that they have to
start lying about something that isn't fully understood, and that
they can't quantify in order to claim that there is too much of it
to have had to accumulate by natural means.
How can you claim that there is an issue if you do not understand
the issue enough to figure out if there is a problem or not?
The genetic code isn't the information that life depends on.-a It has >>>> always been understood that a cell is more than it's genome, and
that the products of the genetic code depended on the 3 dimensional
information created by the RNA and protein products of genes.-a This
encoded information has to work within what 3 dimensional
information that already exists in the cell.-a All changes have to
work within what is already working.-a This had to be true before the >>>> genetic code evolved.-a All the genetic code has done is that it has
improved the efficiency of the reproduction of the cell, and it has
grown in function to direct the development of multicellular
organisms from a single cell. -a-aThe genome needs a fully functional >>>> cell in order to do this, and every functional addition had to work
within what had already been working.
All the ID perps are admitting to is that they never had an argument
in the first place because they never understood what they were
lying about, and they still do not understand what they are lying
about in order to make any type of rational argument.
Just think about this for a moment.-a Sternberg has claimed that he
has been thinking about this issue for a long time.-a He is the ID
perp that dishonestly got Meyer's Cambrian explosion nonsense peer
reviewed by his chosen reviewers.-a He subsequently quit science (he
was never fired nor did he lose his office space) and quit
participating in the scientific endeavor.-a His most recent
scientific publication on his web page is from 2005, and he joined
the ID perp scam outfit in 2007 in order to support the bait and
switch scam.-a He could not use his scientific expertise to support
the ID scam, so he spent around 8 years messing with gaps in the
whale fossil record (he was an invertebrate taxonomist, but decided
to prevaricate about whale evolution).-a Behe destroyed his gap
stupidity by claiming that whale evolution was just the type of
evolution expected to have occurred by Darwinian mechanisms in 2014.
Behe was really claiming that his designer would have done it some
other way.-a Behe tried to denigrate that type of biological
evolution by calling it "devolution" but evolution is evolution.
Sternberg had to start working on something new, so he is getting
around to admitting that the ID perps have never been lying about
what they should have been lying about in the first place.
Ron Okimoto
[1] FROM ONE CELL TO A HUMAN BEING: AN OVERVIEW OF THE PROCESS AND
ITS MYSTERIES
*Fertilisation* begins when a sperm and ovum fuse to form a single
cell: the *zygote*. In that moment, a new, genetically unique human >>>>> organism exists. Yet nothing visible distinguishes this cell from
countless others. What follows is one of the most extraordinary
processes known in nature.
---
## 1. Exponential division without growth: cleavage
Within hours, the zygote begins dividing: 1 cell becomes 2, then 4, >>>>> 8, 16, and so on. These early divisions, called *cleavage*, are
remarkable because the total size of the embryo does not increase.
Instead, the original cytoplasm is partitioned into ever-smaller
cells.
Key features:
* Division is rapid and tightly synchronized.
* Cells remain enclosed in the original outer membrane.
* The embryo reaches ~100 cells in a few days.
*What is striking:*
All cells initially appear equivalent, yet they are already on
trajectories that will lead to radically different fates.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How early asymmetriesrCosubtle differences in molecular
concentrations, mechanics, and timingrCobias later cell fate
decisions with such reliability.
---
## 2. Self-organisation and implantation: the blastocyst
After several days, the embryo reorganises into a *blastocyst*rCoa
hollow structure with:
* an *inner cell mass* (which will become the body),
* and an *outer layer* (which will help form the placenta).
The blastocyst implants into the uterine wall, establishing a
biochemical dialogue with the mother that allows pregnancy to
continue.
*What is striking:*
This organisation emerges without a central controller. Cells
rCLdeciderCY their roles through local interactions, gene regulation, >>>>> and physical constraints.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How global structure arises so robustly from local rules, and why
implantation succeeds or fails so often despite apparently normal
embryos.
---
## 3. The body plan appears: gastrulation
Around the third week, the embryo undergoes *gastrulation*, often
called *the most important event in your life*. A simple sheet of
cells folds and rearranges to form three foundational layers:
* *Ectoderm* raA nervous system, skin
* *Mesoderm* raA muscle, bone, blood, heart
* *Endoderm* raA gut, liver, lungs
-aFrom this point onward, the basic body axesrCohead to tail, back to >>>>> front, left to rightrCoare established.
*What is striking:*
A consistent human body plan emerges from dramatic cellular
movements that look, under a microscope, almost chaotic.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How genetic instructions, chemical gradients, and mechanical forces >>>>> are integrated in real time to yield precise, repeatable anatomy.
---
## 4. Differentiation and organ formation: organogenesis
Cells now differentiate into hundreds of specialised types and
assemble into organs. Neural cells wire themselves into circuits.
Blood vessels branch through tissues. The heart begins beating
while still forming.
Cell numbers increase exponentially, eventually reaching *tens of
trillions*, yet:
* proportions are maintained,
* leftrCoright symmetry is mostly preserved,
* errors are detected and corrected.
*What is striking:*
No cell rCLknowsrCY the whole plan, yet the whole plan reliably appears. >>>>>
*What we do not fully understand:*
* How large-scale structures (like vascular trees or neural
connectivity) are specified without explicit blueprints
* How errors are corrected without derailing development
* How timing is coordinated across vastly different scales
---
## 5. Uniqueness emerges
Although humans share a common body plan, no two individuals are
the same. Small genetic differences, epigenetic marks, maternal
factors, and environmental influences interact throughout
development to shape:
* brain wiring,
* facial structure,
* physiology,
* and predispositions across a lifetime.
*What is striking:*
Uniqueness is not added at the endrCoit emerges continuously, from
the very first divisions.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How early microscopic differences propagate into macroscopic
individuality, especially in the brain.
---
## The deeper wonder
-aFrom a single cell, governed by chemistry and physics, arises:
* consciousness,
* memory,
* creativity,
* moral agency.
This happens not through rigid instruction, but through a *deeply
interdependent, multiscale process* that blends genetic rules,
physical law, cellular context, and self-organisation.
Despite immense progress in molecular biology and embryology, we
still lack:
* a complete causal map from genes to form,
* a full explanation of robustness and error correction,
* and a unifying theory of biological development comparable to
those in physics.
*In short:*
We understand many of the parts. We understand some of the rules.
But how those rules so reliably give rise to a new, unique human
being remains one of the most profound and humbling questions in
science.
(ChatGPT)
______________
[2] THE HUMAN BODY COMPRISES 11 MAJOR PHYSIOLOGICAL SYSTEMS
Each exhibiting high functional complexity through scale,
precision, and cross-system integration.
1. The *nervous system* provides rapid information processing, with >>>>> ~86 billion neurons and ~10-|rU|rCo10-|rU| synapses enabling millisecond-
scale control while consuming ~20% of resting metabolic energy.
Humans possess ~2rCo3|u more cortical neurons than great apes, and
this difference alone implies orders of magnitude greater
combinatorial processing capacity, given synaptic scaling; human
prefrontal cortex expansion to ~25rCo30% of the total cortex gives
disproportionately dense long-range connections enabling abstract
reasoning, symbolic thought, counterfactual planning, and recursive >>>>> language.
2. The *circulatory system* sustains organism-wide transport via
~100,000 km of blood vessels and a heart that beats ~100,000 times
per day, continuously distributing oxygen, nutrients, hormones, and >>>>> immune cells.
3. The *respiratory system* enables gas exchange through ~300
million alveoli generating ~70 m-# of surface area, processing
~10,000 liters of air per day.
4. The *digestive system* converts food into bioavailable energy
along a ~9 m tract, with ~30rCo40 trillion gut microbes and ~30rCo40 m-# >>>>> of absorptive surface area in the small intestine.
5. The *endocrine system* coordinates long-range regulation using
hormones effective at picomolarrConanomolar concentrations, exerting >>>>> organism-wide control through nested feedback loops.
6. The *immune system* provides adaptive defense with ~10-|-|rCo10-|-# >>>>> active immune cells and the capacity to generate >10-|-# distinct
antibody variants with long-term memory.
7. The *musculoskeletal system* enables movement and structural
support through ~206 bones and ~600 muscles, with continuous
mechanical loading and bone remodeling (~5rCo10% annually).
8. The *integumentary system* forms a multifunctional protective
interface covering ~1.5rCo2.0 m-# and containing ~20 billion cells, >>>>> integrating mechanical protection, sensation, and immune signaling.
9. The *urinary (renal) system* maintains chemical homeostasis by
filtering ~180 liters of blood per day across ~2 million nephrons,
reabsorbing >99% of filtrate with high selectivity.
10. The *reproductive system* supports species continuity through
hormonally regulated gamete production (up to hundreds of millions
of sperm per day in males) and cyclic reproductive physiology in
females.
11. The *lymphatic system* complements circulation and immunity by
returning ~2rCo4 liters of interstitial fluid daily and coordinating >>>>> immune surveillance across hundreds of lymph nodes.
Taken together, these systems form a deeply interdependent,
multiscale biological architecture, in which trillions of
components are dynamically regulated with molecular precision to
maintain stability, adaptability, and continuity of the human
organism.
(ChatGPT)
On 8/01/2026 6:23 am, RonO wrote:
On 1/7/2026 5:15 AM, MarkE wrote:
On 7/01/2026 8:24 am, RonO wrote:
Here is the strongest argument for the ID scam.
https://scienceandculture.com/2026/01/the-strongest-argument-for-
intelligent-design-is-also-the-simplest/
You just have to have no knowledge of physics, chemistry nor how
biological evolution works to think that it is any valid argument at
all.
Ron Okimoto
Off topic, but I'm curious to know your view on the first-cause/
cosmological argument?
You are having this discussion with another creationist, just one more
honest than the ones that you associate with.-a You should know that
creationists have no solution to the first-cause argument.-a You can
think that God existed before the Big Bang, but that doesn't solve the
ultimate first-cause issue.-a Something likely existed before the Big
Bang, but we don't know what that could be.-a The pure energy or quark-
gluon plasma that existed at the start of the Big Bang would have come
from somewhere.-a All we have to look at is our little piece of the
cosmos, and we don't know what exists out side of the Big Bang's
influence.
I find Roger Penrose's position revealing. He recognises that this
argument has weight, and attempts to avoid an absolute space/time
beginning (and thus a rCLfirst causerCY) without invoking a multiverse or >>> speculative quantum creation from nothing with his Conformal Cyclic
Cosmology (CCC).
Thanks Roger for confirming that (i) the first-cause problem is real;
(ii) current materialist hypotheses are doubtful at best; and (iii)
materialists are willing to try any amount of mathematical gymnastics
(e.g. CCC) to avoid the God hypothesis.
The first cause issue is real for everyone including creationists.
What caused some god to exist?-a This god would have to be able to
interact with his creation in order to make you happy.-a This god would
have had to be able to manipulate things in our universe so that 8
billion years of dying stars would produce a dust and gas cloud with
the right mix of elements to make life possible in our star poor
region of the milky way galaxy 4.5 billion years ago.
Nyikos was a creationist that became an IDiot early in the beginning
of the ID scam when it came to TO in the late 1990's.-a Nyikos is the
type of creationist IDiot that no one should want to be like.-a Nyikos
was not anti evolution, but was always dishonest about why he
supported the ID scam, and he had his space alien fantasy to lie about
ID being scientific. Nyikos claimed that he regularly attended
Catholic Mass, but that, that didn't mean that he supported the ID
scam for religious reasons.-a Pathetically, Nyikos was the type of
Biblical creationist that believed in a god that you could lie to and
expect to get what you wanted.-a I think that Nyikos was the only
creationist on TO that ever supported Pascal's wager as something that
was viable.-a You have to have a pretty pathetic view of your god to
think that claiming to believe in that god would be enough ass kissing
to get your just reward.
Ron Okimoto
The short answer for creationists is that God is, by definition,
uncaused. An objection to this is that it explains nothing. My counter
would be that God is the ultimate - and only - brute fact. The one
exception to causality. Of course this is open to any amount of philosophical and theological debate.
The causality question comes into focus with energy and entropy.
Penrose's CCC attempts to solve the fundamental problem of increasing entropy and successive universe cycles.
On 1/8/2026 4:36 AM, MarkE wrote:
On 8/01/2026 6:23 am, RonO wrote:
On 1/7/2026 5:15 AM, MarkE wrote:
On 7/01/2026 8:24 am, RonO wrote:
Here is the strongest argument for the ID scam.
https://scienceandculture.com/2026/01/the-strongest-argument-for-
intelligent-design-is-also-the-simplest/
You just have to have no knowledge of physics, chemistry nor how
biological evolution works to think that it is any valid argument
at all.
Ron Okimoto
Off topic, but I'm curious to know your view on the first-cause/
cosmological argument?
You are having this discussion with another creationist, just one
more honest than the ones that you associate with.-a You should know
that creationists have no solution to the first-cause argument.-a You
can think that God existed before the Big Bang, but that doesn't
solve the ultimate first-cause issue.-a Something likely existed
before the Big Bang, but we don't know what that could be.-a The pure
energy or quark- gluon plasma that existed at the start of the Big
Bang would have come from somewhere.-a All we have to look at is our
little piece of the cosmos, and we don't know what exists out side of
the Big Bang's influence.
I find Roger Penrose's position revealing. He recognises that this
argument has weight, and attempts to avoid an absolute space/time
beginning (and thus a rCLfirst causerCY) without invoking a multiverse >>>> or speculative quantum creation from nothing with his Conformal
Cyclic Cosmology (CCC).
Thanks Roger for confirming that (i) the first-cause problem is
real; (ii) current materialist hypotheses are doubtful at best; and
(iii) materialists are willing to try any amount of mathematical
gymnastics (e.g. CCC) to avoid the God hypothesis.
The first cause issue is real for everyone including creationists.
What caused some god to exist?-a This god would have to be able to
interact with his creation in order to make you happy.-a This god
would have had to be able to manipulate things in our universe so
that 8 billion years of dying stars would produce a dust and gas
cloud with the right mix of elements to make life possible in our
star poor region of the milky way galaxy 4.5 billion years ago.
Nyikos was a creationist that became an IDiot early in the beginning
of the ID scam when it came to TO in the late 1990's.-a Nyikos is the
type of creationist IDiot that no one should want to be like.-a Nyikos
was not anti evolution, but was always dishonest about why he
supported the ID scam, and he had his space alien fantasy to lie
about ID being scientific. Nyikos claimed that he regularly attended
Catholic Mass, but that, that didn't mean that he supported the ID
scam for religious reasons.-a Pathetically, Nyikos was the type of
Biblical creationist that believed in a god that you could lie to and
expect to get what you wanted.-a I think that Nyikos was the only
creationist on TO that ever supported Pascal's wager as something
that was viable.-a You have to have a pretty pathetic view of your god
to think that claiming to believe in that god would be enough ass
kissing to get your just reward.
Ron Okimoto
The short answer for creationists is that God is, by definition,
uncaused. An objection to this is that it explains nothing. My counter
would be that God is the ultimate - and only - brute fact. The one
exception to causality. Of course this is open to any amount of
philosophical and theological debate.
A bogus definition of god doesn't solve your problem.-a No matter what
your definition is the problem still exists.-a Why would anyone believe
that you could define away a problem when there is no justification for
the definition?
The causality question comes into focus with energy and entropy.
Penrose's CCC attempts to solve the fundamental problem of increasing
entropy and successive universe cycles.
Just define it away.
Ron Okimoto
On 1/8/2026 4:11 AM, MarkE wrote:
On 8/01/2026 4:17 am, RonO wrote:
On 1/6/2026 6:16 PM, MarkE wrote:
On 7/01/2026 3:43 am, RonO wrote:
On 1/6/2026 8:13 AM, MarkE wrote:
I've recently claimed here that the 80 megabytes of information in >>>>>> the functional portion of the human genome is wildly insufficient >>>>>> to specify the development of a human [1] into the system that is >>>>>> us [2]. I've suggested that the "missing" information must be
located in the ovum's cytoplasm, organelles and membrane.
I've directly asked a number of contributors here if they believe >>>>>> 80 MB is sufficient to specify a human. This has generally been
met with silence. I can understand why, after an even cursory
consideration of [1] and [2]. Moreover, the implications of this
for evolutionary theory and biology are profound.
Anyway, it seems that ID agrees with me. This may not help
convince you, but I'm encouraged that others think this is an
issue that needs attention.
If you're unfamiliar, what you may find interesting is ID's
proposed solution: an "immaterial genome", with reference to
Neoplatonism.
I'm not discounting that position, but do find it surprising!
Would this be a new creationist category, something like
Continuous Creation? Some may have less complimentary suggestions. >>>>>>
Anyway, enjoy (Ron, you may need medical attention after reading
these):
https://scienceandculture.com/2025/05/the-immaterial-genome-
richard- sternbergs-labor-of-love/
https://scienceandculture.com/2025/04/the-math-behind-the-
immaterial- genome/
______________
Nothing to crow about.
My point is the opposite - I shared ID's "immaterial genome"
proposal here expecting it to be enthusiastically criticised. (It
may be old news to you, I hadn't come across it before.)
It is simply nothing to crow about.-a It has always been understood to
exist, but no one has ever figured out a means to quantify it, so the
ID perps never considered it and had decided to lie about something
that they could quantify, but that wasn't really the issue.-a It is
just like the failure of IC where Behe had to admit that IC systems
could evolve by natural mechanisms, and that he could never quantify
the aspects of the system that he claimed made his IC systems unable
to evolve.-a He never was able to define well matched so that it could
be determined to exist in enough quantity to make the flagellum his
type of IC, and he was never able to determine how many parts were
too many to be evolvable.
Sternberg can't even begin to work with the information that is
actually the issue.-a All he can do is make his bogus claims about it
supporting the ID bait and switch scam.
To clarify further, rather than crowing, I'm actually almost
sheepishly acknowledging ID's appeal to an immaterial genome. I
thought that idea might cop some flak. I'm not dismissing it by any
means, but tbh it's not an option I've given consideration.
You are as wrong as the ID perps for continuing to do what you are
doing.-a What is the real information that makes life possible?-a The
genome evolved after there were self replicating cells that we would
likely call living.-a The genome evolved within the context of what was already working.
One upside though is support for the information problem I've
identified.
It was common knowledge that this information existed and that extant
life depended on it, so Sternberg isn't pointing out anything that
wasn't already understood decades ago.-a As a genetics major at
Berkeley in the late 1970's we were required to take a class called
Topics in Genetics.-a It wasn't just current topics, but issues that
had, had been issues decades before like McClintock's transposable
element research from the 1930's and 40's.-a One of the topics was
breaking cellular cycles and was maize research from the 1950's.-a I
can't remember the name of the researcher, but he was dealing with a
nuclear mutation that messed up chloroplasts.-a The chloroplasts could
not be reactivated by crossing pollen from a wild-type plant to the
defective plant.-a This would restore a functional nuclear gene, but
the chloroplasts were not restored.-a You could do the reciprocal
cross with defective pollen crossed to a wild-type plant and those
heterozygotes had functional chloroplasts, but selfs of that plant
would produce homozygous mutants that would again have defective
chloroplasts.
The researcher proposed that part of what it takes to make a
functional cell had been lost in the homozygous mutants and had to be
restored by putting the genetics into another fully functional cell.
Descent with modification produces new lifeforms, but every change
has to work within what is already working.-a In this case some
cellular function was lost that had been maintained by all cells
coming from preexisting cells, and that function had to be restored
by crossing the defective cell to a fully functional cell.
This just means that Sternbergs new information scam has been
understood to exist in biology since at least the 1950's, and likely
long before that when cell theory was formulated.
All cells come from preexisting cells is a core tenet of modern cell
theory.-a Genetics had to be fully consistent with cell theory.-a This
new information is just as useless to the ID scam as IC well matched
parts, and for the same reason.-a We do not know exactly what it is,
and it can't be quantified to any degree useful for ID perp denial.
The information that exists today has been evolving for billions of
years and passed down each cellular generation.
How long have I been claiming that the genetic code information
denial was bogus?-a Was the code ever the information that was
important for a functioning cell?-a This new information denial is
just as bogus.
Just checking if I understand you correctly. I think you're agreeing
that the ovum must contain significant amounts of information (as well
as the functional portion of the genome) to specify the resulting
organism?
The egg cell is known to contain all the information necessary to create
new cells.-a Life is currently using the genome to replicate and
facilitate that process.-a In the case of multicellular life the genome
has taken on the job of regulating the development of different cell
types, but it still has to generate those additional cell types using
the information contained in the egg cell.-a That is just how life works.
-aThis has been understood since we figured out modern cell theory in
the 20th century.-a The reason why the ID perps and you don't use the important information needed for life is that we do not understand it
well enough to make a big deal about it.-a We have understood that it existed for well over a century, but it just can't do much for the ID creationist scam at this time.-a How are you going to claim that there is too much of something that you can't even measure?
If yes, then it seems that this information is NOT considered in the
mechanisms and mathematics of evolution. Rather, with the gene-centric
paradigm it's all about DNA mutations, population genetics, etc. The
extra-genomic information is, as far as I know, not in scope and not
analysed. And that seems like a problem - a fundamental problem.
What do you think?
This information hasn't mattered in our models of biological evolution because it has always been part of the environmental component.
Phenotype = Environmental component + Genetic component.
All genetics has to work within what is already working in the lifeform.
-aIf new variants do not work within that context the organism dies and
has no phenotype and that lineage ends.-a Each new evolutionary
innovation has to work within what is already working or it is not
passed on to future generations.
This is why specified complexity had to distinguish scam specified complexity to "lesser specified complexity" that could be observed being created constantly in nature.
It is why Behe had to use neutral mutations to try to salvage his ID
scam IC claims.-a New mutations that change the function of a protein
happen all the time, and there is no limit for how many can occur.-a Behe had to posit that there were proteins in his IC systems that required 3 neutral mutations to have been specified within a certain time limit
(number of generations).-a He needed neutral mutations because they could not be selected for and would require random processes to get them into
the same cell lineage.-a He needed a time limit because at this time
there are so many neutral mutations in nearly all the proteins in all
the lineages that when some single mutation occurs that changes the
function it is likely using several of the past neutral mutations to
create that new function.-a The ID scam has the issue that 2 neutral mutations have been observed to create a new function.-a Behe
acknowledges that this would be expected to routinely occur with out designer intervention.-a This would be Dembski's "lesser" specified complexity.-a Behe is trying to find what he claims would be evidence for intelligent design in nature, but he has not found it yet, and he
refuses to look for it in his IC systems.
Ron Okimoto
Ron Okimoto
The ID perps are just getting around to admitting that they have
been bogusly in denial of something that they never understood.
All the denial about the genome and genetic code was just dishonest >>>>> stupidity.-a They never understood the information that really existed. >>>>>
All this means is that they should now understand that they have to >>>>> start lying about something that isn't fully understood, and that
they can't quantify in order to claim that there is too much of it
to have had to accumulate by natural means.
How can you claim that there is an issue if you do not understand
the issue enough to figure out if there is a problem or not?
The genetic code isn't the information that life depends on.-a It
has always been understood that a cell is more than it's genome,
and that the products of the genetic code depended on the 3
dimensional information created by the RNA and protein products of
genes.-a This encoded information has to work within what 3
dimensional information that already exists in the cell.-a All
changes have to work within what is already working.-a This had to
be true before the genetic code evolved.-a All the genetic code has >>>>> done is that it has improved the efficiency of the reproduction of
the cell, and it has grown in function to direct the development of >>>>> multicellular organisms from a single cell. -a-aThe genome needs a
fully functional cell in order to do this, and every functional
addition had to work within what had already been working.
All the ID perps are admitting to is that they never had an
argument in the first place because they never understood what they >>>>> were lying about, and they still do not understand what they are
lying about in order to make any type of rational argument.
Just think about this for a moment.-a Sternberg has claimed that he >>>>> has been thinking about this issue for a long time.-a He is the ID
perp that dishonestly got Meyer's Cambrian explosion nonsense peer
reviewed by his chosen reviewers.-a He subsequently quit science (he >>>>> was never fired nor did he lose his office space) and quit
participating in the scientific endeavor.-a His most recent
scientific publication on his web page is from 2005, and he joined
the ID perp scam outfit in 2007 in order to support the bait and
switch scam.-a He could not use his scientific expertise to support >>>>> the ID scam, so he spent around 8 years messing with gaps in the
whale fossil record (he was an invertebrate taxonomist, but decided >>>>> to prevaricate about whale evolution).-a Behe destroyed his gap
stupidity by claiming that whale evolution was just the type of
evolution expected to have occurred by Darwinian mechanisms in
2014. Behe was really claiming that his designer would have done it >>>>> some other way.-a Behe tried to denigrate that type of biological
evolution by calling it "devolution" but evolution is evolution.
Sternberg had to start working on something new, so he is getting
around to admitting that the ID perps have never been lying about
what they should have been lying about in the first place.
Ron Okimoto
[1] FROM ONE CELL TO A HUMAN BEING: AN OVERVIEW OF THE PROCESS AND >>>>>> ITS MYSTERIES
*Fertilisation* begins when a sperm and ovum fuse to form a single >>>>>> cell: the *zygote*. In that moment, a new, genetically unique
human organism exists. Yet nothing visible distinguishes this cell >>>>>> from countless others. What follows is one of the most
extraordinary processes known in nature.
---
## 1. Exponential division without growth: cleavage
Within hours, the zygote begins dividing: 1 cell becomes 2, then
4, 8, 16, and so on. These early divisions, called *cleavage*, are >>>>>> remarkable because the total size of the embryo does not increase. >>>>>> Instead, the original cytoplasm is partitioned into ever-smaller
cells.
Key features:
* Division is rapid and tightly synchronized.
* Cells remain enclosed in the original outer membrane.
* The embryo reaches ~100 cells in a few days.
*What is striking:*
All cells initially appear equivalent, yet they are already on
trajectories that will lead to radically different fates.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How early asymmetriesrCosubtle differences in molecular
concentrations, mechanics, and timingrCobias later cell fate
decisions with such reliability.
---
## 2. Self-organisation and implantation: the blastocyst
After several days, the embryo reorganises into a *blastocyst*rCoa >>>>>> hollow structure with:
* an *inner cell mass* (which will become the body),
* and an *outer layer* (which will help form the placenta).
The blastocyst implants into the uterine wall, establishing a
biochemical dialogue with the mother that allows pregnancy to
continue.
*What is striking:*
This organisation emerges without a central controller. Cells
rCLdeciderCY their roles through local interactions, gene regulation, >>>>>> and physical constraints.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How global structure arises so robustly from local rules, and why >>>>>> implantation succeeds or fails so often despite apparently normal >>>>>> embryos.
---
## 3. The body plan appears: gastrulation
Around the third week, the embryo undergoes *gastrulation*, often >>>>>> called *the most important event in your life*. A simple sheet of >>>>>> cells folds and rearranges to form three foundational layers:
* *Ectoderm* raA nervous system, skin
* *Mesoderm* raA muscle, bone, blood, heart
* *Endoderm* raA gut, liver, lungs
-aFrom this point onward, the basic body axesrCohead to tail, back to >>>>>> front, left to rightrCoare established.
*What is striking:*
A consistent human body plan emerges from dramatic cellular
movements that look, under a microscope, almost chaotic.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How genetic instructions, chemical gradients, and mechanical
forces are integrated in real time to yield precise, repeatable
anatomy.
---
## 4. Differentiation and organ formation: organogenesis
Cells now differentiate into hundreds of specialised types and
assemble into organs. Neural cells wire themselves into circuits. >>>>>> Blood vessels branch through tissues. The heart begins beating
while still forming.
Cell numbers increase exponentially, eventually reaching *tens of >>>>>> trillions*, yet:
* proportions are maintained,
* leftrCoright symmetry is mostly preserved,
* errors are detected and corrected.
*What is striking:*
No cell rCLknowsrCY the whole plan, yet the whole plan reliably appears. >>>>>>
*What we do not fully understand:*
* How large-scale structures (like vascular trees or neural
connectivity) are specified without explicit blueprints
* How errors are corrected without derailing development
* How timing is coordinated across vastly different scales
---
## 5. Uniqueness emerges
Although humans share a common body plan, no two individuals are
the same. Small genetic differences, epigenetic marks, maternal
factors, and environmental influences interact throughout
development to shape:
* brain wiring,
* facial structure,
* physiology,
* and predispositions across a lifetime.
*What is striking:*
Uniqueness is not added at the endrCoit emerges continuously, from >>>>>> the very first divisions.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How early microscopic differences propagate into macroscopic
individuality, especially in the brain.
---
## The deeper wonder
-aFrom a single cell, governed by chemistry and physics, arises:
* consciousness,
* memory,
* creativity,
* moral agency.
This happens not through rigid instruction, but through a *deeply >>>>>> interdependent, multiscale process* that blends genetic rules,
physical law, cellular context, and self-organisation.
Despite immense progress in molecular biology and embryology, we
still lack:
* a complete causal map from genes to form,
* a full explanation of robustness and error correction,
* and a unifying theory of biological development comparable to
those in physics.
*In short:*
We understand many of the parts. We understand some of the rules.
But how those rules so reliably give rise to a new, unique human
being remains one of the most profound and humbling questions in
science.
(ChatGPT)
______________
[2] THE HUMAN BODY COMPRISES 11 MAJOR PHYSIOLOGICAL SYSTEMS
Each exhibiting high functional complexity through scale,
precision, and cross-system integration.
1. The *nervous system* provides rapid information processing,
with ~86 billion neurons and ~10-|rU|rCo10-|rU| synapses enabling >>>>>> millisecond- scale control while consuming ~20% of resting
metabolic energy. Humans possess ~2rCo3|u more cortical neurons than >>>>>> great apes, and this difference alone implies orders of magnitude >>>>>> greater combinatorial processing capacity, given synaptic scaling; >>>>>> human prefrontal cortex expansion to ~25rCo30% of the total cortex >>>>>> gives disproportionately dense long-range connections enabling
abstract reasoning, symbolic thought, counterfactual planning, and >>>>>> recursive language.
2. The *circulatory system* sustains organism-wide transport via
~100,000 km of blood vessels and a heart that beats ~100,000 times >>>>>> per day, continuously distributing oxygen, nutrients, hormones,
and immune cells.
3. The *respiratory system* enables gas exchange through ~300
million alveoli generating ~70 m-# of surface area, processing
~10,000 liters of air per day.
4. The *digestive system* converts food into bioavailable energy
along a ~9 m tract, with ~30rCo40 trillion gut microbes and ~30rCo40 >>>>>> m-# of absorptive surface area in the small intestine.
5. The *endocrine system* coordinates long-range regulation using >>>>>> hormones effective at picomolarrConanomolar concentrations, exerting >>>>>> organism-wide control through nested feedback loops.
6. The *immune system* provides adaptive defense with ~10-|-|rCo10-|-# >>>>>> active immune cells and the capacity to generate >10-|-# distinct >>>>>> antibody variants with long-term memory.
7. The *musculoskeletal system* enables movement and structural
support through ~206 bones and ~600 muscles, with continuous
mechanical loading and bone remodeling (~5rCo10% annually).
8. The *integumentary system* forms a multifunctional protective
interface covering ~1.5rCo2.0 m-# and containing ~20 billion cells, >>>>>> integrating mechanical protection, sensation, and immune signaling. >>>>>>
9. The *urinary (renal) system* maintains chemical homeostasis by >>>>>> filtering ~180 liters of blood per day across ~2 million nephrons, >>>>>> reabsorbing >99% of filtrate with high selectivity.
10. The *reproductive system* supports species continuity through >>>>>> hormonally regulated gamete production (up to hundreds of millions >>>>>> of sperm per day in males) and cyclic reproductive physiology in
females.
11. The *lymphatic system* complements circulation and immunity by >>>>>> returning ~2rCo4 liters of interstitial fluid daily and coordinating >>>>>> immune surveillance across hundreds of lymph nodes.
Taken together, these systems form a deeply interdependent,
multiscale biological architecture, in which trillions of
components are dynamically regulated with molecular precision to
maintain stability, adaptability, and continuity of the human
organism.
(ChatGPT)
On 9/01/2026 2:38 am, RonO wrote:
On 1/8/2026 4:11 AM, MarkE wrote:
On 8/01/2026 4:17 am, RonO wrote:
On 1/6/2026 6:16 PM, MarkE wrote:
On 7/01/2026 3:43 am, RonO wrote:
On 1/6/2026 8:13 AM, MarkE wrote:
I've recently claimed here that the 80 megabytes of information >>>>>>> in the functional portion of the human genome is wildly
insufficient to specify the development of a human [1] into the >>>>>>> system that is us [2]. I've suggested that the "missing"
information must be located in the ovum's cytoplasm, organelles >>>>>>> and membrane.
I've directly asked a number of contributors here if they believe >>>>>>> 80 MB is sufficient to specify a human. This has generally been >>>>>>> met with silence. I can understand why, after an even cursory
consideration of [1] and [2]. Moreover, the implications of this >>>>>>> for evolutionary theory and biology are profound.
Anyway, it seems that ID agrees with me. This may not help
convince you, but I'm encouraged that others think this is an
issue that needs attention.
If you're unfamiliar, what you may find interesting is ID's
proposed solution: an "immaterial genome", with reference to
Neoplatonism.
I'm not discounting that position, but do find it surprising!
Would this be a new creationist category, something like
Continuous Creation? Some may have less complimentary suggestions. >>>>>>>
Anyway, enjoy (Ron, you may need medical attention after reading >>>>>>> these):
https://scienceandculture.com/2025/05/the-immaterial-genome-
richard- sternbergs-labor-of-love/
https://scienceandculture.com/2025/04/the-math-behind-the-
immaterial- genome/
______________
Nothing to crow about.
My point is the opposite - I shared ID's "immaterial genome"
proposal here expecting it to be enthusiastically criticised. (It
may be old news to you, I hadn't come across it before.)
It is simply nothing to crow about.-a It has always been understood
to exist, but no one has ever figured out a means to quantify it, so
the ID perps never considered it and had decided to lie about
something that they could quantify, but that wasn't really the
issue.-a It is just like the failure of IC where Behe had to admit
that IC systems could evolve by natural mechanisms, and that he
could never quantify the aspects of the system that he claimed made
his IC systems unable to evolve.-a He never was able to define well
matched so that it could be determined to exist in enough quantity
to make the flagellum his type of IC, and he was never able to
determine how many parts were too many to be evolvable.
Sternberg can't even begin to work with the information that is
actually the issue.-a All he can do is make his bogus claims about it >>>> supporting the ID bait and switch scam.
To clarify further, rather than crowing, I'm actually almost
sheepishly acknowledging ID's appeal to an immaterial genome. I
thought that idea might cop some flak. I'm not dismissing it by any
means, but tbh it's not an option I've given consideration.
You are as wrong as the ID perps for continuing to do what you are
doing.-a What is the real information that makes life possible?-a The
genome evolved after there were self replicating cells that we would
likely call living.-a The genome evolved within the context of what was
already working.
One upside though is support for the information problem I've
identified.
It was common knowledge that this information existed and that
extant life depended on it, so Sternberg isn't pointing out anything
that wasn't already understood decades ago.-a As a genetics major at
Berkeley in the late 1970's we were required to take a class called
Topics in Genetics.-a It wasn't just current topics, but issues that
had, had been issues decades before like McClintock's transposable
element research from the 1930's and 40's.-a One of the topics was
breaking cellular cycles and was maize research from the 1950's.-a I
can't remember the name of the researcher, but he was dealing with a
nuclear mutation that messed up chloroplasts.-a The chloroplasts
could not be reactivated by crossing pollen from a wild-type plant
to the defective plant.-a This would restore a functional nuclear
gene, but the chloroplasts were not restored.-a You could do the
reciprocal cross with defective pollen crossed to a wild-type plant
and those heterozygotes had functional chloroplasts, but selfs of
that plant would produce homozygous mutants that would again have
defective chloroplasts.
The researcher proposed that part of what it takes to make a
functional cell had been lost in the homozygous mutants and had to
be restored by putting the genetics into another fully functional
cell. Descent with modification produces new lifeforms, but every
change has to work within what is already working.-a In this case
some cellular function was lost that had been maintained by all
cells coming from preexisting cells, and that function had to be
restored by crossing the defective cell to a fully functional cell.
This just means that Sternbergs new information scam has been
understood to exist in biology since at least the 1950's, and likely
long before that when cell theory was formulated.
All cells come from preexisting cells is a core tenet of modern cell
theory.-a Genetics had to be fully consistent with cell theory.-a This >>>> new information is just as useless to the ID scam as IC well matched
parts, and for the same reason.-a We do not know exactly what it is,
and it can't be quantified to any degree useful for ID perp denial.
The information that exists today has been evolving for billions of
years and passed down each cellular generation.
How long have I been claiming that the genetic code information
denial was bogus?-a Was the code ever the information that was
important for a functioning cell?-a This new information denial is
just as bogus.
Just checking if I understand you correctly. I think you're agreeing
that the ovum must contain significant amounts of information (as
well as the functional portion of the genome) to specify the
resulting organism?
The egg cell is known to contain all the information necessary to
create new cells.-a Life is currently using the genome to replicate and
facilitate that process.-a In the case of multicellular life the genome
has taken on the job of regulating the development of different cell
types, but it still has to generate those additional cell types using
the information contained in the egg cell.-a That is just how life
works. -a-aThis has been understood since we figured out modern cell
theory in the 20th century.-a The reason why the ID perps and you don't
use the important information needed for life is that we do not
understand it well enough to make a big deal about it.-a We have
understood that it existed for well over a century, but it just can't
do much for the ID creationist scam at this time.-a How are you going
to claim that there is too much of something that you can't even measure?
If yes, then it seems that this information is NOT considered in the
mechanisms and mathematics of evolution. Rather, with the gene-
centric paradigm it's all about DNA mutations, population genetics,
etc. The extra-genomic information is, as far as I know, not in scope
and not analysed. And that seems like a problem - a fundamental problem. >>>
What do you think?
This information hasn't mattered in our models of biological evolution
because it has always been part of the environmental component.
Phenotype = Environmental component + Genetic component.
No. Not sure what you mean here.
Phenotype = embryonic development of (ovum DNA + ovum non-DNA + sperm DNA)
The ovum non-DNA is not the "environmental component". The "environment"
is external to, and other than, the organism.
All genetics has to work within what is already working in the
lifeform. -a-aIf new variants do not work within that context the
organism dies and has no phenotype and that lineage ends.-a Each new
evolutionary innovation has to work within what is already working or
it is not passed on to future generations.
This is why specified complexity had to distinguish scam specified
complexity to "lesser specified complexity" that could be observed
being created constantly in nature.
It is why Behe had to use neutral mutations to try to salvage his ID
scam IC claims.-a New mutations that change the function of a protein
happen all the time, and there is no limit for how many can occur.
Behe had to posit that there were proteins in his IC systems that
required 3 neutral mutations to have been specified within a certain
time limit (number of generations).-a He needed neutral mutations
because they could not be selected for and would require random
processes to get them into the same cell lineage.-a He needed a time
limit because at this time there are so many neutral mutations in
nearly all the proteins in all the lineages that when some single
mutation occurs that changes the function it is likely using several
of the past neutral mutations to create that new function.-a The ID
scam has the issue that 2 neutral mutations have been observed to
create a new function.-a Behe acknowledges that this would be expected
to routinely occur with out designer intervention.-a This would be
Dembski's "lesser" specified complexity.-a Behe is trying to find what
he claims would be evidence for intelligent design in nature, but he
has not found it yet, and he refuses to look for it in his IC systems.
Ron Okimoto
Ron Okimoto
The ID perps are just getting around to admitting that they have
been bogusly in denial of something that they never understood.
All the denial about the genome and genetic code was just
dishonest stupidity.-a They never understood the information that >>>>>> really existed.
All this means is that they should now understand that they have
to start lying about something that isn't fully understood, and
that they can't quantify in order to claim that there is too much >>>>>> of it to have had to accumulate by natural means.
How can you claim that there is an issue if you do not understand >>>>>> the issue enough to figure out if there is a problem or not?
The genetic code isn't the information that life depends on.-a It >>>>>> has always been understood that a cell is more than it's genome,
and that the products of the genetic code depended on the 3
dimensional information created by the RNA and protein products of >>>>>> genes.-a This encoded information has to work within what 3
dimensional information that already exists in the cell.-a All
changes have to work within what is already working.-a This had to >>>>>> be true before the genetic code evolved.-a All the genetic code has >>>>>> done is that it has improved the efficiency of the reproduction of >>>>>> the cell, and it has grown in function to direct the development
of multicellular organisms from a single cell. -a-aThe genome needs >>>>>> a fully functional cell in order to do this, and every functional >>>>>> addition had to work within what had already been working.
All the ID perps are admitting to is that they never had an
argument in the first place because they never understood what
they were lying about, and they still do not understand what they >>>>>> are lying about in order to make any type of rational argument.
Just think about this for a moment.-a Sternberg has claimed that he >>>>>> has been thinking about this issue for a long time.-a He is the ID >>>>>> perp that dishonestly got Meyer's Cambrian explosion nonsense peer >>>>>> reviewed by his chosen reviewers.-a He subsequently quit science
(he was never fired nor did he lose his office space) and quit
participating in the scientific endeavor.-a His most recent
scientific publication on his web page is from 2005, and he joined >>>>>> the ID perp scam outfit in 2007 in order to support the bait and
switch scam.-a He could not use his scientific expertise to support >>>>>> the ID scam, so he spent around 8 years messing with gaps in the
whale fossil record (he was an invertebrate taxonomist, but
decided to prevaricate about whale evolution).-a Behe destroyed his >>>>>> gap stupidity by claiming that whale evolution was just the type
of evolution expected to have occurred by Darwinian mechanisms in >>>>>> 2014. Behe was really claiming that his designer would have done
it some other way.-a Behe tried to denigrate that type of
biological evolution by calling it "devolution" but evolution is
evolution. Sternberg had to start working on something new, so he >>>>>> is getting around to admitting that the ID perps have never been
lying about what they should have been lying about in the first
place.
Ron Okimoto
[1] FROM ONE CELL TO A HUMAN BEING: AN OVERVIEW OF THE PROCESS
AND ITS MYSTERIES
*Fertilisation* begins when a sperm and ovum fuse to form a
single cell: the *zygote*. In that moment, a new, genetically
unique human organism exists. Yet nothing visible distinguishes >>>>>>> this cell from countless others. What follows is one of the most >>>>>>> extraordinary processes known in nature.
---
## 1. Exponential division without growth: cleavage
Within hours, the zygote begins dividing: 1 cell becomes 2, then >>>>>>> 4, 8, 16, and so on. These early divisions, called *cleavage*,
are remarkable because the total size of the embryo does not
increase. Instead, the original cytoplasm is partitioned into
ever-smaller cells.
Key features:
* Division is rapid and tightly synchronized.
* Cells remain enclosed in the original outer membrane.
* The embryo reaches ~100 cells in a few days.
*What is striking:*
All cells initially appear equivalent, yet they are already on
trajectories that will lead to radically different fates.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How early asymmetriesrCosubtle differences in molecular
concentrations, mechanics, and timingrCobias later cell fate
decisions with such reliability.
---
## 2. Self-organisation and implantation: the blastocyst
After several days, the embryo reorganises into a *blastocyst*rCoa >>>>>>> hollow structure with:
* an *inner cell mass* (which will become the body),
* and an *outer layer* (which will help form the placenta).
The blastocyst implants into the uterine wall, establishing a
biochemical dialogue with the mother that allows pregnancy to
continue.
*What is striking:*
This organisation emerges without a central controller. Cells
rCLdeciderCY their roles through local interactions, gene regulation, >>>>>>> and physical constraints.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How global structure arises so robustly from local rules, and why >>>>>>> implantation succeeds or fails so often despite apparently normal >>>>>>> embryos.
---
## 3. The body plan appears: gastrulation
Around the third week, the embryo undergoes *gastrulation*, often >>>>>>> called *the most important event in your life*. A simple sheet of >>>>>>> cells folds and rearranges to form three foundational layers:
* *Ectoderm* raA nervous system, skin
* *Mesoderm* raA muscle, bone, blood, heart
* *Endoderm* raA gut, liver, lungs
-aFrom this point onward, the basic body axesrCohead to tail, back >>>>>>> to front, left to rightrCoare established.
*What is striking:*
A consistent human body plan emerges from dramatic cellular
movements that look, under a microscope, almost chaotic.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How genetic instructions, chemical gradients, and mechanical
forces are integrated in real time to yield precise, repeatable >>>>>>> anatomy.
---
## 4. Differentiation and organ formation: organogenesis
Cells now differentiate into hundreds of specialised types and
assemble into organs. Neural cells wire themselves into circuits. >>>>>>> Blood vessels branch through tissues. The heart begins beating
while still forming.
Cell numbers increase exponentially, eventually reaching *tens of >>>>>>> trillions*, yet:
* proportions are maintained,
* leftrCoright symmetry is mostly preserved,
* errors are detected and corrected.
*What is striking:*
No cell rCLknowsrCY the whole plan, yet the whole plan reliably appears.
*What we do not fully understand:*
* How large-scale structures (like vascular trees or neural
connectivity) are specified without explicit blueprints
* How errors are corrected without derailing development
* How timing is coordinated across vastly different scales
---
## 5. Uniqueness emerges
Although humans share a common body plan, no two individuals are >>>>>>> the same. Small genetic differences, epigenetic marks, maternal >>>>>>> factors, and environmental influences interact throughout
development to shape:
* brain wiring,
* facial structure,
* physiology,
* and predispositions across a lifetime.
*What is striking:*
Uniqueness is not added at the endrCoit emerges continuously, from >>>>>>> the very first divisions.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How early microscopic differences propagate into macroscopic
individuality, especially in the brain.
---
## The deeper wonder
-aFrom a single cell, governed by chemistry and physics, arises: >>>>>>>
* consciousness,
* memory,
* creativity,
* moral agency.
This happens not through rigid instruction, but through a *deeply >>>>>>> interdependent, multiscale process* that blends genetic rules,
physical law, cellular context, and self-organisation.
Despite immense progress in molecular biology and embryology, we >>>>>>> still lack:
* a complete causal map from genes to form,
* a full explanation of robustness and error correction,
* and a unifying theory of biological development comparable to >>>>>>> those in physics.
*In short:*
We understand many of the parts. We understand some of the rules. >>>>>>> But how those rules so reliably give rise to a new, unique human >>>>>>> being remains one of the most profound and humbling questions in >>>>>>> science.
(ChatGPT)
______________
[2] THE HUMAN BODY COMPRISES 11 MAJOR PHYSIOLOGICAL SYSTEMS
Each exhibiting high functional complexity through scale,
precision, and cross-system integration.
1. The *nervous system* provides rapid information processing,
with ~86 billion neurons and ~10-|rU|rCo10-|rU| synapses enabling >>>>>>> millisecond- scale control while consuming ~20% of resting
metabolic energy. Humans possess ~2rCo3|u more cortical neurons than >>>>>>> great apes, and this difference alone implies orders of magnitude >>>>>>> greater combinatorial processing capacity, given synaptic
scaling; human prefrontal cortex expansion to ~25rCo30% of the
total cortex gives disproportionately dense long-range
connections enabling abstract reasoning, symbolic thought,
counterfactual planning, and recursive language.
2. The *circulatory system* sustains organism-wide transport via >>>>>>> ~100,000 km of blood vessels and a heart that beats ~100,000
times per day, continuously distributing oxygen, nutrients,
hormones, and immune cells.
3. The *respiratory system* enables gas exchange through ~300
million alveoli generating ~70 m-# of surface area, processing
~10,000 liters of air per day.
4. The *digestive system* converts food into bioavailable energy >>>>>>> along a ~9 m tract, with ~30rCo40 trillion gut microbes and ~30rCo40 >>>>>>> m-# of absorptive surface area in the small intestine.
5. The *endocrine system* coordinates long-range regulation using >>>>>>> hormones effective at picomolarrConanomolar concentrations,
exerting organism-wide control through nested feedback loops.
6. The *immune system* provides adaptive defense with ~10-|-|rCo10-|-# >>>>>>> active immune cells and the capacity to generate >10-|-# distinct >>>>>>> antibody variants with long-term memory.
7. The *musculoskeletal system* enables movement and structural >>>>>>> support through ~206 bones and ~600 muscles, with continuous
mechanical loading and bone remodeling (~5rCo10% annually).
8. The *integumentary system* forms a multifunctional protective >>>>>>> interface covering ~1.5rCo2.0 m-# and containing ~20 billion cells, >>>>>>> integrating mechanical protection, sensation, and immune signaling. >>>>>>>
9. The *urinary (renal) system* maintains chemical homeostasis by >>>>>>> filtering ~180 liters of blood per day across ~2 million
nephrons, reabsorbing >99% of filtrate with high selectivity.
10. The *reproductive system* supports species continuity through >>>>>>> hormonally regulated gamete production (up to hundreds of
millions of sperm per day in males) and cyclic reproductive
physiology in females.
11. The *lymphatic system* complements circulation and immunity >>>>>>> by returning ~2rCo4 liters of interstitial fluid daily and
coordinating immune surveillance across hundreds of lymph nodes. >>>>>>>
Taken together, these systems form a deeply interdependent,
multiscale biological architecture, in which trillions of
components are dynamically regulated with molecular precision to >>>>>>> maintain stability, adaptability, and continuity of the human
organism.
(ChatGPT)
On 9/01/2026 2:44 am, RonO wrote:
On 1/8/2026 4:36 AM, MarkE wrote:
On 8/01/2026 6:23 am, RonO wrote:
On 1/7/2026 5:15 AM, MarkE wrote:
On 7/01/2026 8:24 am, RonO wrote:
Here is the strongest argument for the ID scam.
https://scienceandculture.com/2026/01/the-strongest-argument-for- >>>>>> intelligent-design-is-also-the-simplest/
You just have to have no knowledge of physics, chemistry nor how
biological evolution works to think that it is any valid argument >>>>>> at all.
Ron Okimoto
Off topic, but I'm curious to know your view on the first-cause/
cosmological argument?
You are having this discussion with another creationist, just one
more honest than the ones that you associate with.-a You should know
that creationists have no solution to the first-cause argument.-a You >>>> can think that God existed before the Big Bang, but that doesn't
solve the ultimate first-cause issue.-a Something likely existed
before the Big Bang, but we don't know what that could be.-a The pure >>>> energy or quark- gluon plasma that existed at the start of the Big
Bang would have come from somewhere.-a All we have to look at is our
little piece of the cosmos, and we don't know what exists out side
of the Big Bang's influence.
I find Roger Penrose's position revealing. He recognises that this
argument has weight, and attempts to avoid an absolute space/time
beginning (and thus a rCLfirst causerCY) without invoking a multiverse >>>>> or speculative quantum creation from nothing with his Conformal
Cyclic Cosmology (CCC).
Thanks Roger for confirming that (i) the first-cause problem is
real; (ii) current materialist hypotheses are doubtful at best; and >>>>> (iii) materialists are willing to try any amount of mathematical
gymnastics (e.g. CCC) to avoid the God hypothesis.
The first cause issue is real for everyone including creationists.
What caused some god to exist?-a This god would have to be able to
interact with his creation in order to make you happy.-a This god
would have had to be able to manipulate things in our universe so
that 8 billion years of dying stars would produce a dust and gas
cloud with the right mix of elements to make life possible in our
star poor region of the milky way galaxy 4.5 billion years ago.
Nyikos was a creationist that became an IDiot early in the beginning
of the ID scam when it came to TO in the late 1990's.-a Nyikos is the >>>> type of creationist IDiot that no one should want to be like.
Nyikos was not anti evolution, but was always dishonest about why he
supported the ID scam, and he had his space alien fantasy to lie
about ID being scientific. Nyikos claimed that he regularly attended
Catholic Mass, but that, that didn't mean that he supported the ID
scam for religious reasons.-a Pathetically, Nyikos was the type of
Biblical creationist that believed in a god that you could lie to
and expect to get what you wanted.-a I think that Nyikos was the only >>>> creationist on TO that ever supported Pascal's wager as something
that was viable.-a You have to have a pretty pathetic view of your
god to think that claiming to believe in that god would be enough
ass kissing to get your just reward.
Ron Okimoto
The short answer for creationists is that God is, by definition,
uncaused. An objection to this is that it explains nothing. My
counter would be that God is the ultimate - and only - brute fact.
The one exception to causality. Of course this is open to any amount
of philosophical and theological debate.
A bogus definition of god doesn't solve your problem.-a No matter what
your definition is the problem still exists.-a Why would anyone believe
that you could define away a problem when there is no justification
for the definition?
The causality question comes into focus with energy and entropy.
Penrose's CCC attempts to solve the fundamental problem of increasing
entropy and successive universe cycles.
Just define it away.
Ron Okimoto
Maybe it's not a "bogus definition", but an correct encapsulation.
Maybe its not "defining away", but an accurate starting point.
I'm not claiming a proof of this, I'm just thinking out loud:
1. An uncaused first cause may exist.
2. If so, by definition, they are termination point for causality.
3. They could then be described as the one and only "brute fact".
Yes?
On 1/10/2026 5:29 AM, MarkE wrote:
On 9/01/2026 2:38 am, RonO wrote:
On 1/8/2026 4:11 AM, MarkE wrote:
On 8/01/2026 4:17 am, RonO wrote:
On 1/6/2026 6:16 PM, MarkE wrote:
On 7/01/2026 3:43 am, RonO wrote:
On 1/6/2026 8:13 AM, MarkE wrote:
I've recently claimed here that the 80 megabytes of information >>>>>>>> in the functional portion of the human genome is wildly
insufficient to specify the development of a human [1] into the >>>>>>>> system that is us [2]. I've suggested that the "missing"
information must be located in the ovum's cytoplasm, organelles >>>>>>>> and membrane.
I've directly asked a number of contributors here if they
believe 80 MB is sufficient to specify a human. This has
generally been met with silence. I can understand why, after an >>>>>>>> even cursory consideration of [1] and [2]. Moreover, the
implications of this for evolutionary theory and biology are
profound.
Anyway, it seems that ID agrees with me. This may not help
convince you, but I'm encouraged that others think this is an >>>>>>>> issue that needs attention.
If you're unfamiliar, what you may find interesting is ID's
proposed solution: an "immaterial genome", with reference to
Neoplatonism.
I'm not discounting that position, but do find it surprising! >>>>>>>> Would this be a new creationist category, something like
Continuous Creation? Some may have less complimentary suggestions. >>>>>>>>
Anyway, enjoy (Ron, you may need medical attention after reading >>>>>>>> these):
https://scienceandculture.com/2025/05/the-immaterial-genome-
richard- sternbergs-labor-of-love/
https://scienceandculture.com/2025/04/the-math-behind-the-
immaterial- genome/
______________
Nothing to crow about.
My point is the opposite - I shared ID's "immaterial genome"
proposal here expecting it to be enthusiastically criticised. (It >>>>>> may be old news to you, I hadn't come across it before.)
It is simply nothing to crow about.-a It has always been understood >>>>> to exist, but no one has ever figured out a means to quantify it,
so the ID perps never considered it and had decided to lie about
something that they could quantify, but that wasn't really the
issue.-a It is just like the failure of IC where Behe had to admit
that IC systems could evolve by natural mechanisms, and that he
could never quantify the aspects of the system that he claimed made >>>>> his IC systems unable to evolve.-a He never was able to define well >>>>> matched so that it could be determined to exist in enough quantity
to make the flagellum his type of IC, and he was never able to
determine how many parts were too many to be evolvable.
Sternberg can't even begin to work with the information that is
actually the issue.-a All he can do is make his bogus claims about
it supporting the ID bait and switch scam.
To clarify further, rather than crowing, I'm actually almost
sheepishly acknowledging ID's appeal to an immaterial genome. I
thought that idea might cop some flak. I'm not dismissing it by any
means, but tbh it's not an option I've given consideration.
You are as wrong as the ID perps for continuing to do what you are
doing.-a What is the real information that makes life possible?-a The
genome evolved after there were self replicating cells that we would
likely call living.-a The genome evolved within the context of what
was already working.
One upside though is support for the information problem I've
identified.
It was common knowledge that this information existed and that
extant life depended on it, so Sternberg isn't pointing out
anything that wasn't already understood decades ago.-a As a genetics >>>>> major at Berkeley in the late 1970's we were required to take a
class called Topics in Genetics.-a It wasn't just current topics,
but issues that had, had been issues decades before like
McClintock's transposable element research from the 1930's and
40's.-a One of the topics was breaking cellular cycles and was maize >>>>> research from the 1950's.-a I can't remember the name of the
researcher, but he was dealing with a nuclear mutation that messed
up chloroplasts.-a The chloroplasts could not be reactivated by
crossing pollen from a wild-type plant to the defective plant.
This would restore a functional nuclear gene, but the chloroplasts
were not restored.-a You could do the reciprocal cross with
defective pollen crossed to a wild-type plant and those
heterozygotes had functional chloroplasts, but selfs of that plant
would produce homozygous mutants that would again have defective
chloroplasts.
The researcher proposed that part of what it takes to make a
functional cell had been lost in the homozygous mutants and had to
be restored by putting the genetics into another fully functional
cell. Descent with modification produces new lifeforms, but every
change has to work within what is already working.-a In this case
some cellular function was lost that had been maintained by all
cells coming from preexisting cells, and that function had to be
restored by crossing the defective cell to a fully functional cell.
This just means that Sternbergs new information scam has been
understood to exist in biology since at least the 1950's, and
likely long before that when cell theory was formulated.
All cells come from preexisting cells is a core tenet of modern
cell theory.-a Genetics had to be fully consistent with cell
theory.-a This new information is just as useless to the ID scam as >>>>> IC well matched parts, and for the same reason.-a We do not know
exactly what it is, and it can't be quantified to any degree useful >>>>> for ID perp denial. The information that exists today has been
evolving for billions of years and passed down each cellular
generation.
How long have I been claiming that the genetic code information
denial was bogus?-a Was the code ever the information that was
important for a functioning cell?-a This new information denial is
just as bogus.
Just checking if I understand you correctly. I think you're agreeing
that the ovum must contain significant amounts of information (as
well as the functional portion of the genome) to specify the
resulting organism?
The egg cell is known to contain all the information necessary to
create new cells.-a Life is currently using the genome to replicate
and facilitate that process.-a In the case of multicellular life the
genome has taken on the job of regulating the development of
different cell types, but it still has to generate those additional
cell types using the information contained in the egg cell.-a That is
just how life works. -a-aThis has been understood since we figured out
modern cell theory in the 20th century.-a The reason why the ID perps
and you don't use the important information needed for life is that
we do not understand it well enough to make a big deal about it.-a We
have understood that it existed for well over a century, but it just
can't do much for the ID creationist scam at this time.-a How are you
going to claim that there is too much of something that you can't
even measure?
If yes, then it seems that this information is NOT considered in the
mechanisms and mathematics of evolution. Rather, with the gene-
centric paradigm it's all about DNA mutations, population genetics,
etc. The extra-genomic information is, as far as I know, not in
scope and not analysed. And that seems like a problem - a
fundamental problem.
What do you think?
This information hasn't mattered in our models of biological
evolution because it has always been part of the environmental
component. Phenotype = Environmental component + Genetic component.
No. Not sure what you mean here.
Phenotype = embryonic development of (ovum DNA + ovum non-DNA + sperm
DNA)
The ovum non-DNA is not the "environmental component". The
"environment" is external to, and other than, the organism.
The DNA of the egg and sperm are the genetic component.-a The existing cellular component of the egg is accounted for in the environmental component of the equation.-a It is the environment in which the genetics
are expressed.
The existing cellular component is just as important an environmental influence as womb, and things like nutrition and diseases in the full development of the organism and expression of the genetic phenotype.
Think of developmental defects like spina bifida.-a The genetic component
is low and the phenotype is mainly due to cellular information mess ups during development.-a Things do not always work out as they should.
Ron Okimoto
All genetics has to work within what is already working in the
lifeform. -a-aIf new variants do not work within that context the
organism dies and has no phenotype and that lineage ends.-a Each new
evolutionary innovation has to work within what is already working or
it is not passed on to future generations.
This is why specified complexity had to distinguish scam specified
complexity to "lesser specified complexity" that could be observed
being created constantly in nature.
It is why Behe had to use neutral mutations to try to salvage his ID
scam IC claims.-a New mutations that change the function of a protein
happen all the time, and there is no limit for how many can occur.
Behe had to posit that there were proteins in his IC systems that
required 3 neutral mutations to have been specified within a certain
time limit (number of generations).-a He needed neutral mutations
because they could not be selected for and would require random
processes to get them into the same cell lineage.-a He needed a time
limit because at this time there are so many neutral mutations in
nearly all the proteins in all the lineages that when some single
mutation occurs that changes the function it is likely using several
of the past neutral mutations to create that new function.-a The ID
scam has the issue that 2 neutral mutations have been observed to
create a new function.-a Behe acknowledges that this would be expected
to routinely occur with out designer intervention.-a This would be
Dembski's "lesser" specified complexity.-a Behe is trying to find what
he claims would be evidence for intelligent design in nature, but he
has not found it yet, and he refuses to look for it in his IC systems.
Ron Okimoto
Ron Okimoto
The ID perps are just getting around to admitting that they have >>>>>>> been bogusly in denial of something that they never understood. >>>>>>> All the denial about the genome and genetic code was just
dishonest stupidity.-a They never understood the information that >>>>>>> really existed.
All this means is that they should now understand that they have >>>>>>> to start lying about something that isn't fully understood, and >>>>>>> that they can't quantify in order to claim that there is too much >>>>>>> of it to have had to accumulate by natural means.
How can you claim that there is an issue if you do not understand >>>>>>> the issue enough to figure out if there is a problem or not?
The genetic code isn't the information that life depends on.-a It >>>>>>> has always been understood that a cell is more than it's genome, >>>>>>> and that the products of the genetic code depended on the 3
dimensional information created by the RNA and protein products >>>>>>> of genes.-a This encoded information has to work within what 3
dimensional information that already exists in the cell.-a All
changes have to work within what is already working.-a This had to >>>>>>> be true before the genetic code evolved.-a All the genetic code >>>>>>> has done is that it has improved the efficiency of the
reproduction of the cell, and it has grown in function to direct >>>>>>> the development of multicellular organisms from a single cell.
-a-aThe genome needs a fully functional cell in order to do this, >>>>>>> and every functional addition had to work within what had already >>>>>>> been working.
All the ID perps are admitting to is that they never had an
argument in the first place because they never understood what
they were lying about, and they still do not understand what they >>>>>>> are lying about in order to make any type of rational argument.
Just think about this for a moment.-a Sternberg has claimed that >>>>>>> he has been thinking about this issue for a long time.-a He is the >>>>>>> ID perp that dishonestly got Meyer's Cambrian explosion nonsense >>>>>>> peer reviewed by his chosen reviewers.-a He subsequently quit
science (he was never fired nor did he lose his office space) and >>>>>>> quit participating in the scientific endeavor.-a His most recent >>>>>>> scientific publication on his web page is from 2005, and he
joined the ID perp scam outfit in 2007 in order to support the
bait and switch scam.-a He could not use his scientific expertise >>>>>>> to support the ID scam, so he spent around 8 years messing with >>>>>>> gaps in the whale fossil record (he was an invertebrate
taxonomist, but decided to prevaricate about whale evolution). >>>>>>> Behe destroyed his gap stupidity by claiming that whale evolution >>>>>>> was just the type of evolution expected to have occurred by
Darwinian mechanisms in 2014. Behe was really claiming that his >>>>>>> designer would have done it some other way.-a Behe tried to
denigrate that type of biological evolution by calling it
"devolution" but evolution is evolution. Sternberg had to start >>>>>>> working on something new, so he is getting around to admitting
that the ID perps have never been lying about what they should
have been lying about in the first place.
Ron Okimoto
[1] FROM ONE CELL TO A HUMAN BEING: AN OVERVIEW OF THE PROCESS >>>>>>>> AND ITS MYSTERIES
*Fertilisation* begins when a sperm and ovum fuse to form a
single cell: the *zygote*. In that moment, a new, genetically >>>>>>>> unique human organism exists. Yet nothing visible distinguishes >>>>>>>> this cell from countless others. What follows is one of the most >>>>>>>> extraordinary processes known in nature.
---
## 1. Exponential division without growth: cleavage
Within hours, the zygote begins dividing: 1 cell becomes 2, then >>>>>>>> 4, 8, 16, and so on. These early divisions, called *cleavage*, >>>>>>>> are remarkable because the total size of the embryo does not
increase. Instead, the original cytoplasm is partitioned into >>>>>>>> ever-smaller cells.
Key features:
* Division is rapid and tightly synchronized.
* Cells remain enclosed in the original outer membrane.
* The embryo reaches ~100 cells in a few days.
*What is striking:*
All cells initially appear equivalent, yet they are already on >>>>>>>> trajectories that will lead to radically different fates.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How early asymmetriesrCosubtle differences in molecular
concentrations, mechanics, and timingrCobias later cell fate
decisions with such reliability.
---
## 2. Self-organisation and implantation: the blastocyst
After several days, the embryo reorganises into a *blastocyst*rCoa >>>>>>>> hollow structure with:
* an *inner cell mass* (which will become the body),
* and an *outer layer* (which will help form the placenta).
The blastocyst implants into the uterine wall, establishing a >>>>>>>> biochemical dialogue with the mother that allows pregnancy to >>>>>>>> continue.
*What is striking:*
This organisation emerges without a central controller. Cells >>>>>>>> rCLdeciderCY their roles through local interactions, gene
regulation, and physical constraints.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How global structure arises so robustly from local rules, and >>>>>>>> why implantation succeeds or fails so often despite apparently >>>>>>>> normal embryos.
---
## 3. The body plan appears: gastrulation
Around the third week, the embryo undergoes *gastrulation*,
often called *the most important event in your life*. A simple >>>>>>>> sheet of cells folds and rearranges to form three foundational >>>>>>>> layers:
* *Ectoderm* raA nervous system, skin
* *Mesoderm* raA muscle, bone, blood, heart
* *Endoderm* raA gut, liver, lungs
-aFrom this point onward, the basic body axesrCohead to tail, back >>>>>>>> to front, left to rightrCoare established.
*What is striking:*
A consistent human body plan emerges from dramatic cellular
movements that look, under a microscope, almost chaotic.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How genetic instructions, chemical gradients, and mechanical
forces are integrated in real time to yield precise, repeatable >>>>>>>> anatomy.
---
## 4. Differentiation and organ formation: organogenesis
Cells now differentiate into hundreds of specialised types and >>>>>>>> assemble into organs. Neural cells wire themselves into
circuits. Blood vessels branch through tissues. The heart begins >>>>>>>> beating while still forming.
Cell numbers increase exponentially, eventually reaching *tens >>>>>>>> of trillions*, yet:
* proportions are maintained,
* leftrCoright symmetry is mostly preserved,
* errors are detected and corrected.
*What is striking:*
No cell rCLknowsrCY the whole plan, yet the whole plan reliably >>>>>>>> appears.
*What we do not fully understand:*
* How large-scale structures (like vascular trees or neural
connectivity) are specified without explicit blueprints
* How errors are corrected without derailing development
* How timing is coordinated across vastly different scales
---
## 5. Uniqueness emerges
Although humans share a common body plan, no two individuals are >>>>>>>> the same. Small genetic differences, epigenetic marks, maternal >>>>>>>> factors, and environmental influences interact throughout
development to shape:
* brain wiring,
* facial structure,
* physiology,
* and predispositions across a lifetime.
*What is striking:*
Uniqueness is not added at the endrCoit emerges continuously, from >>>>>>>> the very first divisions.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How early microscopic differences propagate into macroscopic
individuality, especially in the brain.
---
## The deeper wonder
-aFrom a single cell, governed by chemistry and physics, arises: >>>>>>>>
* consciousness,
* memory,
* creativity,
* moral agency.
This happens not through rigid instruction, but through a
*deeply interdependent, multiscale process* that blends genetic >>>>>>>> rules, physical law, cellular context, and self-organisation.
Despite immense progress in molecular biology and embryology, we >>>>>>>> still lack:
* a complete causal map from genes to form,
* a full explanation of robustness and error correction,
* and a unifying theory of biological development comparable to >>>>>>>> those in physics.
*In short:*
We understand many of the parts. We understand some of the rules. >>>>>>>> But how those rules so reliably give rise to a new, unique human >>>>>>>> being remains one of the most profound and humbling questions in >>>>>>>> science.
(ChatGPT)
______________
[2] THE HUMAN BODY COMPRISES 11 MAJOR PHYSIOLOGICAL SYSTEMS
Each exhibiting high functional complexity through scale,
precision, and cross-system integration.
1. The *nervous system* provides rapid information processing, >>>>>>>> with ~86 billion neurons and ~10-|rU|rCo10-|rU| synapses enabling >>>>>>>> millisecond- scale control while consuming ~20% of resting
metabolic energy. Humans possess ~2rCo3|u more cortical neurons >>>>>>>> than great apes, and this difference alone implies orders of
magnitude greater combinatorial processing capacity, given
synaptic scaling; human prefrontal cortex expansion to ~25rCo30% >>>>>>>> of the total cortex gives disproportionately dense long-range >>>>>>>> connections enabling abstract reasoning, symbolic thought,
counterfactual planning, and recursive language.
2. The *circulatory system* sustains organism-wide transport via >>>>>>>> ~100,000 km of blood vessels and a heart that beats ~100,000
times per day, continuously distributing oxygen, nutrients,
hormones, and immune cells.
3. The *respiratory system* enables gas exchange through ~300 >>>>>>>> million alveoli generating ~70 m-# of surface area, processing >>>>>>>> ~10,000 liters of air per day.
4. The *digestive system* converts food into bioavailable energy >>>>>>>> along a ~9 m tract, with ~30rCo40 trillion gut microbes and ~30rCo40 >>>>>>>> m-# of absorptive surface area in the small intestine.
5. The *endocrine system* coordinates long-range regulation
using hormones effective at picomolarrConanomolar concentrations, >>>>>>>> exerting organism-wide control through nested feedback loops.
6. The *immune system* provides adaptive defense with ~10-|-|rCo10-|-#
active immune cells and the capacity to generate >10-|-# distinct >>>>>>>> antibody variants with long-term memory.
7. The *musculoskeletal system* enables movement and structural >>>>>>>> support through ~206 bones and ~600 muscles, with continuous
mechanical loading and bone remodeling (~5rCo10% annually).
8. The *integumentary system* forms a multifunctional protective >>>>>>>> interface covering ~1.5rCo2.0 m-# and containing ~20 billion cells, >>>>>>>> integrating mechanical protection, sensation, and immune signaling. >>>>>>>>
9. The *urinary (renal) system* maintains chemical homeostasis >>>>>>>> by filtering ~180 liters of blood per day across ~2 million
nephrons, reabsorbing >99% of filtrate with high selectivity.
10. The *reproductive system* supports species continuity
through hormonally regulated gamete production (up to hundreds >>>>>>>> of millions of sperm per day in males) and cyclic reproductive >>>>>>>> physiology in females.
11. The *lymphatic system* complements circulation and immunity >>>>>>>> by returning ~2rCo4 liters of interstitial fluid daily and
coordinating immune surveillance across hundreds of lymph nodes. >>>>>>>>
Taken together, these systems form a deeply interdependent,
multiscale biological architecture, in which trillions of
components are dynamically regulated with molecular precision to >>>>>>>> maintain stability, adaptability, and continuity of the human >>>>>>>> organism.
(ChatGPT)
On 11/01/2026 1:23 am, RonO wrote:
On 1/10/2026 5:29 AM, MarkE wrote:
On 9/01/2026 2:38 am, RonO wrote:
On 1/8/2026 4:11 AM, MarkE wrote:
On 8/01/2026 4:17 am, RonO wrote:
On 1/6/2026 6:16 PM, MarkE wrote:
On 7/01/2026 3:43 am, RonO wrote:
On 1/6/2026 8:13 AM, MarkE wrote:
I've recently claimed here that the 80 megabytes of information >>>>>>>>> in the functional portion of the human genome is wildly
insufficient to specify the development of a human [1] into the >>>>>>>>> system that is us [2]. I've suggested that the "missing"
information must be located in the ovum's cytoplasm, organelles >>>>>>>>> and membrane.
I've directly asked a number of contributors here if they
believe 80 MB is sufficient to specify a human. This has
generally been met with silence. I can understand why, after an >>>>>>>>> even cursory consideration of [1] and [2]. Moreover, the
implications of this for evolutionary theory and biology are >>>>>>>>> profound.
Anyway, it seems that ID agrees with me. This may not help
convince you, but I'm encouraged that others think this is an >>>>>>>>> issue that needs attention.
If you're unfamiliar, what you may find interesting is ID's >>>>>>>>> proposed solution: an "immaterial genome", with reference to >>>>>>>>> Neoplatonism.
I'm not discounting that position, but do find it surprising! >>>>>>>>> Would this be a new creationist category, something like
Continuous Creation? Some may have less complimentary suggestions. >>>>>>>>>
Anyway, enjoy (Ron, you may need medical attention after
reading these):
https://scienceandculture.com/2025/05/the-immaterial-genome- >>>>>>>>> richard- sternbergs-labor-of-love/
https://scienceandculture.com/2025/04/the-math-behind-the-
immaterial- genome/
______________
Nothing to crow about.
My point is the opposite - I shared ID's "immaterial genome"
proposal here expecting it to be enthusiastically criticised. (It >>>>>>> may be old news to you, I hadn't come across it before.)
It is simply nothing to crow about.-a It has always been understood >>>>>> to exist, but no one has ever figured out a means to quantify it, >>>>>> so the ID perps never considered it and had decided to lie about
something that they could quantify, but that wasn't really the
issue.-a It is just like the failure of IC where Behe had to admit >>>>>> that IC systems could evolve by natural mechanisms, and that he
could never quantify the aspects of the system that he claimed
made his IC systems unable to evolve.-a He never was able to define >>>>>> well matched so that it could be determined to exist in enough
quantity to make the flagellum his type of IC, and he was never
able to determine how many parts were too many to be evolvable.
Sternberg can't even begin to work with the information that is
actually the issue.-a All he can do is make his bogus claims about >>>>>> it supporting the ID bait and switch scam.
To clarify further, rather than crowing, I'm actually almost
sheepishly acknowledging ID's appeal to an immaterial genome. I
thought that idea might cop some flak. I'm not dismissing it by any >>>>> means, but tbh it's not an option I've given consideration.
You are as wrong as the ID perps for continuing to do what you are
doing.-a What is the real information that makes life possible?-a The >>>> genome evolved after there were self replicating cells that we would
likely call living.-a The genome evolved within the context of what
was already working.
One upside though is support for the information problem I've
identified.
It was common knowledge that this information existed and that
extant life depended on it, so Sternberg isn't pointing out
anything that wasn't already understood decades ago.-a As a
genetics major at Berkeley in the late 1970's we were required to >>>>>> take a class called Topics in Genetics.-a It wasn't just current
topics, but issues that had, had been issues decades before like
McClintock's transposable element research from the 1930's and
40's.-a One of the topics was breaking cellular cycles and was
maize research from the 1950's.-a I can't remember the name of the >>>>>> researcher, but he was dealing with a nuclear mutation that messed >>>>>> up chloroplasts.-a The chloroplasts could not be reactivated by
crossing pollen from a wild-type plant to the defective plant.
This would restore a functional nuclear gene, but the chloroplasts >>>>>> were not restored.-a You could do the reciprocal cross with
defective pollen crossed to a wild-type plant and those
heterozygotes had functional chloroplasts, but selfs of that plant >>>>>> would produce homozygous mutants that would again have defective
chloroplasts.
The researcher proposed that part of what it takes to make a
functional cell had been lost in the homozygous mutants and had to >>>>>> be restored by putting the genetics into another fully functional >>>>>> cell. Descent with modification produces new lifeforms, but every >>>>>> change has to work within what is already working.-a In this case >>>>>> some cellular function was lost that had been maintained by all
cells coming from preexisting cells, and that function had to be
restored by crossing the defective cell to a fully functional cell. >>>>>>
This just means that Sternbergs new information scam has been
understood to exist in biology since at least the 1950's, and
likely long before that when cell theory was formulated.
All cells come from preexisting cells is a core tenet of modern
cell theory.-a Genetics had to be fully consistent with cell
theory.-a This new information is just as useless to the ID scam as >>>>>> IC well matched parts, and for the same reason.-a We do not know
exactly what it is, and it can't be quantified to any degree
useful for ID perp denial. The information that exists today has
been evolving for billions of years and passed down each cellular >>>>>> generation.
How long have I been claiming that the genetic code information
denial was bogus?-a Was the code ever the information that was
important for a functioning cell?-a This new information denial is >>>>>> just as bogus.
Just checking if I understand you correctly. I think you're
agreeing that the ovum must contain significant amounts of
information (as well as the functional portion of the genome) to
specify the resulting organism?
The egg cell is known to contain all the information necessary to
create new cells.-a Life is currently using the genome to replicate
and facilitate that process.-a In the case of multicellular life the
genome has taken on the job of regulating the development of
different cell types, but it still has to generate those additional
cell types using the information contained in the egg cell.-a That is >>>> just how life works. -a-aThis has been understood since we figured out >>>> modern cell theory in the 20th century.-a The reason why the ID perps >>>> and you don't use the important information needed for life is that
we do not understand it well enough to make a big deal about it.-a We >>>> have understood that it existed for well over a century, but it just
can't do much for the ID creationist scam at this time.-a How are you >>>> going to claim that there is too much of something that you can't
even measure?
If yes, then it seems that this information is NOT considered in
the mechanisms and mathematics of evolution. Rather, with the gene- >>>>> centric paradigm it's all about DNA mutations, population genetics, >>>>> etc. The extra-genomic information is, as far as I know, not in
scope and not analysed. And that seems like a problem - a
fundamental problem.
What do you think?
This information hasn't mattered in our models of biological
evolution because it has always been part of the environmental
component. Phenotype = Environmental component + Genetic component.
No. Not sure what you mean here.
Phenotype = embryonic development of (ovum DNA + ovum non-DNA + sperm
DNA)
The ovum non-DNA is not the "environmental component". The
"environment" is external to, and other than, the organism.
The DNA of the egg and sperm are the genetic component.-a The existing
cellular component of the egg is accounted for in the environmental
component of the equation.-a It is the environment in which the
genetics are expressed.
The existing cellular component is just as important an environmental
influence as womb, and things like nutrition and diseases in the full
development of the organism and expression of the genetic phenotype.
Think of developmental defects like spina bifida.-a The genetic
component is low and the phenotype is mainly due to cellular
information mess ups during development.-a Things do not always work
out as they should.
Ron Okimoto
Dennis Noble, for example, proposes there is no single privileged
control layer, but that developmental control is distributed,
multilevel, and circularly causal.
This may be something of semantic quibble. However, given the accepted
use of the term "environment" in relation to evolution, and challenges
such as Noble's to gene-centrism, I suggest avoiding it in this context.
The contribution of the the mother, her immune system, hormones, blood supply, womb, placenta etc are an indirect source of information, i.e.
they comprise the support system that is mandatory for embryonic development. Actually (from Gemini):
"The motherrCOs hormones and immune system do not merely "influence" development; they act as a primary control system that directs embryo implantation, organ maturation, and even long-term disease susceptibility."
E.g., "Maternal hormones act as signaling molecules that can start or interrupt critical developmental processes.
Thyroid Hormones (TH): Crucial for fetal brain development, especially before the fetus can produce its own (around week 16). Low maternal TH
is linked to lower child IQ and motor delays.
Glucocorticoids (Cortisol): High levels of maternal stress hormones can prematurely trigger organ maturation at the expense of overall growth, leading to smaller babies and altered stress responses (HPA axis) in adulthood.
Insulin-Like Growth Factors (IGFs): IGF-I and IGF-II regulate the supply
of nutrients across the placenta, preventing fetal overgrowth or undergrowth.
Progesterone: Essential for maintaining the uterine structure and
promoting immune tolerance, preventing the mother's body from rejecting
the embryo."
All genetics has to work within what is already working in the
lifeform. -a-aIf new variants do not work within that context the
organism dies and has no phenotype and that lineage ends.-a Each new
evolutionary innovation has to work within what is already working
or it is not passed on to future generations.
This is why specified complexity had to distinguish scam specified
complexity to "lesser specified complexity" that could be observed
being created constantly in nature.
It is why Behe had to use neutral mutations to try to salvage his ID
scam IC claims.-a New mutations that change the function of a protein >>>> happen all the time, and there is no limit for how many can occur.
Behe had to posit that there were proteins in his IC systems that
required 3 neutral mutations to have been specified within a certain
time limit (number of generations).-a He needed neutral mutations
because they could not be selected for and would require random
processes to get them into the same cell lineage.-a He needed a time
limit because at this time there are so many neutral mutations in
nearly all the proteins in all the lineages that when some single
mutation occurs that changes the function it is likely using several
of the past neutral mutations to create that new function.-a The ID
scam has the issue that 2 neutral mutations have been observed to
create a new function.-a Behe acknowledges that this would be
expected to routinely occur with out designer intervention.-a This
would be Dembski's "lesser" specified complexity.-a Behe is trying to >>>> find what he claims would be evidence for intelligent design in
nature, but he has not found it yet, and he refuses to look for it
in his IC systems.
Ron Okimoto
Ron Okimoto
The ID perps are just getting around to admitting that they have >>>>>>>> been bogusly in denial of something that they never understood. >>>>>>>> All the denial about the genome and genetic code was just
dishonest stupidity.-a They never understood the information that >>>>>>>> really existed.
All this means is that they should now understand that they have >>>>>>>> to start lying about something that isn't fully understood, and >>>>>>>> that they can't quantify in order to claim that there is too
much of it to have had to accumulate by natural means.
How can you claim that there is an issue if you do not
understand the issue enough to figure out if there is a problem >>>>>>>> or not?
The genetic code isn't the information that life depends on.-a It >>>>>>>> has always been understood that a cell is more than it's genome, >>>>>>>> and that the products of the genetic code depended on the 3
dimensional information created by the RNA and protein products >>>>>>>> of genes.-a This encoded information has to work within what 3 >>>>>>>> dimensional information that already exists in the cell.-a All >>>>>>>> changes have to work within what is already working.-a This had >>>>>>>> to be true before the genetic code evolved.-a All the genetic >>>>>>>> code has done is that it has improved the efficiency of the
reproduction of the cell, and it has grown in function to direct >>>>>>>> the development of multicellular organisms from a single cell. >>>>>>>> -a-aThe genome needs a fully functional cell in order to do this, >>>>>>>> and every functional addition had to work within what had
already been working.
All the ID perps are admitting to is that they never had an
argument in the first place because they never understood what >>>>>>>> they were lying about, and they still do not understand what
they are lying about in order to make any type of rational
argument.
Just think about this for a moment.-a Sternberg has claimed that >>>>>>>> he has been thinking about this issue for a long time.-a He is >>>>>>>> the ID perp that dishonestly got Meyer's Cambrian explosion
nonsense peer reviewed by his chosen reviewers.-a He subsequently >>>>>>>> quit science (he was never fired nor did he lose his office
space) and quit participating in the scientific endeavor.-a His >>>>>>>> most recent scientific publication on his web page is from 2005, >>>>>>>> and he joined the ID perp scam outfit in 2007 in order to
support the bait and switch scam.-a He could not use his
scientific expertise to support the ID scam, so he spent around >>>>>>>> 8 years messing with gaps in the whale fossil record (he was an >>>>>>>> invertebrate taxonomist, but decided to prevaricate about whale >>>>>>>> evolution). Behe destroyed his gap stupidity by claiming that >>>>>>>> whale evolution was just the type of evolution expected to have >>>>>>>> occurred by Darwinian mechanisms in 2014. Behe was really
claiming that his designer would have done it some other way. >>>>>>>> Behe tried to denigrate that type of biological evolution by
calling it "devolution" but evolution is evolution. Sternberg >>>>>>>> had to start working on something new, so he is getting around >>>>>>>> to admitting that the ID perps have never been lying about what >>>>>>>> they should have been lying about in the first place.
Ron Okimoto
[1] FROM ONE CELL TO A HUMAN BEING: AN OVERVIEW OF THE PROCESS >>>>>>>>> AND ITS MYSTERIES
*Fertilisation* begins when a sperm and ovum fuse to form a >>>>>>>>> single cell: the *zygote*. In that moment, a new, genetically >>>>>>>>> unique human organism exists. Yet nothing visible distinguishes >>>>>>>>> this cell from countless others. What follows is one of the >>>>>>>>> most extraordinary processes known in nature.
---
## 1. Exponential division without growth: cleavage
Within hours, the zygote begins dividing: 1 cell becomes 2, >>>>>>>>> then 4, 8, 16, and so on. These early divisions, called
*cleavage*, are remarkable because the total size of the embryo >>>>>>>>> does not increase. Instead, the original cytoplasm is
partitioned into ever-smaller cells.
Key features:
* Division is rapid and tightly synchronized.
* Cells remain enclosed in the original outer membrane.
* The embryo reaches ~100 cells in a few days.
*What is striking:*
All cells initially appear equivalent, yet they are already on >>>>>>>>> trajectories that will lead to radically different fates.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How early asymmetriesrCosubtle differences in molecular
concentrations, mechanics, and timingrCobias later cell fate >>>>>>>>> decisions with such reliability.
---
## 2. Self-organisation and implantation: the blastocyst
After several days, the embryo reorganises into a *blastocyst*rCo >>>>>>>>> a hollow structure with:
* an *inner cell mass* (which will become the body),
* and an *outer layer* (which will help form the placenta).
The blastocyst implants into the uterine wall, establishing a >>>>>>>>> biochemical dialogue with the mother that allows pregnancy to >>>>>>>>> continue.
*What is striking:*
This organisation emerges without a central controller. Cells >>>>>>>>> rCLdeciderCY their roles through local interactions, gene
regulation, and physical constraints.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How global structure arises so robustly from local rules, and >>>>>>>>> why implantation succeeds or fails so often despite apparently >>>>>>>>> normal embryos.
---
## 3. The body plan appears: gastrulation
Around the third week, the embryo undergoes *gastrulation*, >>>>>>>>> often called *the most important event in your life*. A simple >>>>>>>>> sheet of cells folds and rearranges to form three foundational >>>>>>>>> layers:
* *Ectoderm* raA nervous system, skin
* *Mesoderm* raA muscle, bone, blood, heart
* *Endoderm* raA gut, liver, lungs
-aFrom this point onward, the basic body axesrCohead to tail, back >>>>>>>>> to front, left to rightrCoare established.
*What is striking:*
A consistent human body plan emerges from dramatic cellular >>>>>>>>> movements that look, under a microscope, almost chaotic.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How genetic instructions, chemical gradients, and mechanical >>>>>>>>> forces are integrated in real time to yield precise, repeatable >>>>>>>>> anatomy.
---
## 4. Differentiation and organ formation: organogenesis
Cells now differentiate into hundreds of specialised types and >>>>>>>>> assemble into organs. Neural cells wire themselves into
circuits. Blood vessels branch through tissues. The heart
begins beating while still forming.
Cell numbers increase exponentially, eventually reaching *tens >>>>>>>>> of trillions*, yet:
* proportions are maintained,
* leftrCoright symmetry is mostly preserved,
* errors are detected and corrected.
*What is striking:*
No cell rCLknowsrCY the whole plan, yet the whole plan reliably >>>>>>>>> appears.
*What we do not fully understand:*
* How large-scale structures (like vascular trees or neural >>>>>>>>> connectivity) are specified without explicit blueprints
* How errors are corrected without derailing development
* How timing is coordinated across vastly different scales
---
## 5. Uniqueness emerges
Although humans share a common body plan, no two individuals >>>>>>>>> are the same. Small genetic differences, epigenetic marks,
maternal factors, and environmental influences interact
throughout development to shape:
* brain wiring,
* facial structure,
* physiology,
* and predispositions across a lifetime.
*What is striking:*
Uniqueness is not added at the endrCoit emerges continuously, >>>>>>>>> from the very first divisions.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How early microscopic differences propagate into macroscopic >>>>>>>>> individuality, especially in the brain.
---
## The deeper wonder
-aFrom a single cell, governed by chemistry and physics, arises: >>>>>>>>>
* consciousness,
* memory,
* creativity,
* moral agency.
This happens not through rigid instruction, but through a
*deeply interdependent, multiscale process* that blends genetic >>>>>>>>> rules, physical law, cellular context, and self-organisation. >>>>>>>>>
Despite immense progress in molecular biology and embryology, >>>>>>>>> we still lack:
* a complete causal map from genes to form,
* a full explanation of robustness and error correction,
* and a unifying theory of biological development comparable to >>>>>>>>> those in physics.
*In short:*
We understand many of the parts. We understand some of the rules. >>>>>>>>> But how those rules so reliably give rise to a new, unique
human being remains one of the most profound and humbling
questions in science.
(ChatGPT)
______________
[2] THE HUMAN BODY COMPRISES 11 MAJOR PHYSIOLOGICAL SYSTEMS
Each exhibiting high functional complexity through scale,
precision, and cross-system integration.
1. The *nervous system* provides rapid information processing, >>>>>>>>> with ~86 billion neurons and ~10-|rU|rCo10-|rU| synapses enabling >>>>>>>>> millisecond- scale control while consuming ~20% of resting
metabolic energy. Humans possess ~2rCo3|u more cortical neurons >>>>>>>>> than great apes, and this difference alone implies orders of >>>>>>>>> magnitude greater combinatorial processing capacity, given
synaptic scaling; human prefrontal cortex expansion to ~25rCo30% >>>>>>>>> of the total cortex gives disproportionately dense long-range >>>>>>>>> connections enabling abstract reasoning, symbolic thought,
counterfactual planning, and recursive language.
2. The *circulatory system* sustains organism-wide transport >>>>>>>>> via ~100,000 km of blood vessels and a heart that beats
~100,000 times per day, continuously distributing oxygen,
nutrients, hormones, and immune cells.
3. The *respiratory system* enables gas exchange through ~300 >>>>>>>>> million alveoli generating ~70 m-# of surface area, processing >>>>>>>>> ~10,000 liters of air per day.
4. The *digestive system* converts food into bioavailable
energy along a ~9 m tract, with ~30rCo40 trillion gut microbes >>>>>>>>> and ~30rCo40 m-# of absorptive surface area in the small intestine. >>>>>>>>>
5. The *endocrine system* coordinates long-range regulation >>>>>>>>> using hormones effective at picomolarrConanomolar concentrations, >>>>>>>>> exerting organism-wide control through nested feedback loops. >>>>>>>>>
6. The *immune system* provides adaptive defense with ~10-|-|rCo >>>>>>>>> 10-|-# active immune cells and the capacity to generate >10-|-# >>>>>>>>> distinct antibody variants with long-term memory.
7. The *musculoskeletal system* enables movement and structural >>>>>>>>> support through ~206 bones and ~600 muscles, with continuous >>>>>>>>> mechanical loading and bone remodeling (~5rCo10% annually).
8. The *integumentary system* forms a multifunctional
protective interface covering ~1.5rCo2.0 m-# and containing ~20 >>>>>>>>> billion cells, integrating mechanical protection, sensation, >>>>>>>>> and immune signaling.
9. The *urinary (renal) system* maintains chemical homeostasis >>>>>>>>> by filtering ~180 liters of blood per day across ~2 million >>>>>>>>> nephrons, reabsorbing >99% of filtrate with high selectivity. >>>>>>>>>
10. The *reproductive system* supports species continuity
through hormonally regulated gamete production (up to hundreds >>>>>>>>> of millions of sperm per day in males) and cyclic reproductive >>>>>>>>> physiology in females.
11. The *lymphatic system* complements circulation and immunity >>>>>>>>> by returning ~2rCo4 liters of interstitial fluid daily and
coordinating immune surveillance across hundreds of lymph nodes. >>>>>>>>>
Taken together, these systems form a deeply interdependent, >>>>>>>>> multiscale biological architecture, in which trillions of
components are dynamically regulated with molecular precision >>>>>>>>> to maintain stability, adaptability, and continuity of the
human organism.
(ChatGPT)
On 1/13/2026 12:53 AM, MarkE wrote:
On 11/01/2026 1:23 am, RonO wrote:
On 1/10/2026 5:29 AM, MarkE wrote:
On 9/01/2026 2:38 am, RonO wrote:
On 1/8/2026 4:11 AM, MarkE wrote:
On 8/01/2026 4:17 am, RonO wrote:
On 1/6/2026 6:16 PM, MarkE wrote:
On 7/01/2026 3:43 am, RonO wrote:
On 1/6/2026 8:13 AM, MarkE wrote:
I've recently claimed here that the 80 megabytes of
information in the functional portion of the human genome is >>>>>>>>>> wildly insufficient to specify the development of a human [1] >>>>>>>>>> into the system that is us [2]. I've suggested that the
"missing" information must be located in the ovum's cytoplasm, >>>>>>>>>> organelles and membrane.
I've directly asked a number of contributors here if they >>>>>>>>>> believe 80 MB is sufficient to specify a human. This has
generally been met with silence. I can understand why, after >>>>>>>>>> an even cursory consideration of [1] and [2]. Moreover, the >>>>>>>>>> implications of this for evolutionary theory and biology are >>>>>>>>>> profound.
Anyway, it seems that ID agrees with me. This may not help >>>>>>>>>> convince you, but I'm encouraged that others think this is an >>>>>>>>>> issue that needs attention.
If you're unfamiliar, what you may find interesting is ID's >>>>>>>>>> proposed solution: an "immaterial genome", with reference to >>>>>>>>>> Neoplatonism.
I'm not discounting that position, but do find it surprising! >>>>>>>>>> Would this be a new creationist category, something like
Continuous Creation? Some may have less complimentary
suggestions.
Anyway, enjoy (Ron, you may need medical attention after
reading these):
https://scienceandculture.com/2025/05/the-immaterial-genome- >>>>>>>>>> richard- sternbergs-labor-of-love/
https://scienceandculture.com/2025/04/the-math-behind-the- >>>>>>>>>> immaterial- genome/
______________
Nothing to crow about.
My point is the opposite - I shared ID's "immaterial genome"
proposal here expecting it to be enthusiastically criticised. >>>>>>>> (It may be old news to you, I hadn't come across it before.)
It is simply nothing to crow about.-a It has always been
understood to exist, but no one has ever figured out a means to >>>>>>> quantify it, so the ID perps never considered it and had decided >>>>>>> to lie about something that they could quantify, but that wasn't >>>>>>> really the issue.-a It is just like the failure of IC where Behe >>>>>>> had to admit that IC systems could evolve by natural mechanisms, >>>>>>> and that he could never quantify the aspects of the system that >>>>>>> he claimed made his IC systems unable to evolve.-a He never was >>>>>>> able to define well matched so that it could be determined to
exist in enough quantity to make the flagellum his type of IC,
and he was never able to determine how many parts were too many >>>>>>> to be evolvable.
Sternberg can't even begin to work with the information that is >>>>>>> actually the issue.-a All he can do is make his bogus claims about >>>>>>> it supporting the ID bait and switch scam.
To clarify further, rather than crowing, I'm actually almost
sheepishly acknowledging ID's appeal to an immaterial genome. I
thought that idea might cop some flak. I'm not dismissing it by
any means, but tbh it's not an option I've given consideration.
You are as wrong as the ID perps for continuing to do what you are
doing.-a What is the real information that makes life possible?-a The >>>>> genome evolved after there were self replicating cells that we
would likely call living.-a The genome evolved within the context of >>>>> what was already working.
One upside though is support for the information problem I've >>>>>>>> identified.
It was common knowledge that this information existed and that
extant life depended on it, so Sternberg isn't pointing out
anything that wasn't already understood decades ago.-a As a
genetics major at Berkeley in the late 1970's we were required to >>>>>>> take a class called Topics in Genetics.-a It wasn't just current >>>>>>> topics, but issues that had, had been issues decades before like >>>>>>> McClintock's transposable element research from the 1930's and
40's.-a One of the topics was breaking cellular cycles and was
maize research from the 1950's.-a I can't remember the name of the >>>>>>> researcher, but he was dealing with a nuclear mutation that
messed up chloroplasts.-a The chloroplasts could not be
reactivated by crossing pollen from a wild-type plant to the
defective plant. This would restore a functional nuclear gene,
but the chloroplasts were not restored.-a You could do the
reciprocal cross with defective pollen crossed to a wild-type
plant and those heterozygotes had functional chloroplasts, but
selfs of that plant would produce homozygous mutants that would >>>>>>> again have defective chloroplasts.
The researcher proposed that part of what it takes to make a
functional cell had been lost in the homozygous mutants and had >>>>>>> to be restored by putting the genetics into another fully
functional cell. Descent with modification produces new
lifeforms, but every change has to work within what is already
working.-a In this case some cellular function was lost that had >>>>>>> been maintained by all cells coming from preexisting cells, and >>>>>>> that function had to be restored by crossing the defective cell >>>>>>> to a fully functional cell.
This just means that Sternbergs new information scam has been
understood to exist in biology since at least the 1950's, and
likely long before that when cell theory was formulated.
All cells come from preexisting cells is a core tenet of modern >>>>>>> cell theory.-a Genetics had to be fully consistent with cell
theory.-a This new information is just as useless to the ID scam >>>>>>> as IC well matched parts, and for the same reason.-a We do not
know exactly what it is, and it can't be quantified to any degree >>>>>>> useful for ID perp denial. The information that exists today has >>>>>>> been evolving for billions of years and passed down each cellular >>>>>>> generation.
How long have I been claiming that the genetic code information >>>>>>> denial was bogus?-a Was the code ever the information that was
important for a functioning cell?-a This new information denial is >>>>>>> just as bogus.
Just checking if I understand you correctly. I think you're
agreeing that the ovum must contain significant amounts of
information (as well as the functional portion of the genome) to
specify the resulting organism?
The egg cell is known to contain all the information necessary to
create new cells.-a Life is currently using the genome to replicate >>>>> and facilitate that process.-a In the case of multicellular life the >>>>> genome has taken on the job of regulating the development of
different cell types, but it still has to generate those additional >>>>> cell types using the information contained in the egg cell.-a That
is just how life works. -a-aThis has been understood since we figured >>>>> out modern cell theory in the 20th century.-a The reason why the ID >>>>> perps and you don't use the important information needed for life
is that we do not understand it well enough to make a big deal
about it.-a We have understood that it existed for well over a
century, but it just can't do much for the ID creationist scam at
this time.-a How are you going to claim that there is too much of
something that you can't even measure?
If yes, then it seems that this information is NOT considered in
the mechanisms and mathematics of evolution. Rather, with the
gene- centric paradigm it's all about DNA mutations, population
genetics, etc. The extra-genomic information is, as far as I know, >>>>>> not in scope and not analysed. And that seems like a problem - a
fundamental problem.
What do you think?
This information hasn't mattered in our models of biological
evolution because it has always been part of the environmental
component. Phenotype = Environmental component + Genetic component.
No. Not sure what you mean here.
Phenotype = embryonic development of (ovum DNA + ovum non-DNA +
sperm DNA)
The ovum non-DNA is not the "environmental component". The
"environment" is external to, and other than, the organism.
The DNA of the egg and sperm are the genetic component.-a The existing
cellular component of the egg is accounted for in the environmental
component of the equation.-a It is the environment in which the
genetics are expressed.
The existing cellular component is just as important an environmental
influence as womb, and things like nutrition and diseases in the full
development of the organism and expression of the genetic phenotype.
Think of developmental defects like spina bifida.-a The genetic
component is low and the phenotype is mainly due to cellular
information mess ups during development.-a Things do not always work
out as they should.
Ron Okimoto
Dennis Noble, for example, proposes there is no single privileged
control layer, but that developmental control is distributed,
multilevel, and circularly causal.
This may be something of semantic quibble. However, given the accepted
use of the term "environment" in relation to evolution, and challenges
such as Noble's to gene-centrism, I suggest avoiding it in this context.
The contribution of the the mother, her immune system, hormones, blood
supply, womb, placenta etc are an indirect source of information, i.e.
they comprise the support system that is mandatory for embryonic
development. Actually (from Gemini):
"The motherrCOs hormones and immune system do not merely "influence"
development; they act as a primary control system that directs embryo
implantation, organ maturation, and even long-term disease
susceptibility."
E.g., "Maternal hormones act as signaling molecules that can start or
interrupt critical developmental processes.
Thyroid Hormones (TH): Crucial for fetal brain development, especially
before the fetus can produce its own (around week 16). Low maternal TH
is linked to lower child IQ and motor delays.
Glucocorticoids (Cortisol): High levels of maternal stress hormones
can prematurely trigger organ maturation at the expense of overall
growth, leading to smaller babies and altered stress responses (HPA
axis) in adulthood.
Insulin-Like Growth Factors (IGFs): IGF-I and IGF-II regulate the
supply of nutrients across the placenta, preventing fetal overgrowth
or undergrowth.
Progesterone: Essential for maintaining the uterine structure and
promoting immune tolerance, preventing the mother's body from
rejecting the embryo."
What is important to consider about the cellular environmental component
is that it has been evolving for as long as the first cells existed.
What you see in humans are a lot of additions to what was initially required.-a Most of what you just put up is information that was not
needed when mammals laid eggs and the embryos needed to develop within
the confines of the egg with no maternal input except for body heat to incubate the eggs.-a Embryo development ran on wheels dependent on egg contents, including the fertilized egg cell, and the developmental programing provided by the newly formed diploid genome.
Initially this cellular information would have likely been minimal, just enough to keep the cells that split off growing and creating more cells.
-aAnything that helped the cells replicate more efficiently producing
more cells that could replicate would be selected for.-a My take is that these early cells would be composed of self replicating units.-a These
early self replicating units would do other things besides self
replicate, such as make lipids to produce the cell membrane.
My take is that conglomerates of lipids could have been the first self replicators.-a These first self replicators would have had minimal
cellular information to pass down to the next generation, but it would
need to exist.-a New cells would be forming using parts of the existing cells.-a The RNA world would have evolved among these early self replicators.-a The ribozymes that would evolve added to the cellular information that needed to be carried over to the next generation of replicating cells.-a RNA was likely the first genome because it could be used to replicate ribozymes and structural RNAs.-a DNA may have evolved
to make the genome more stable.-a All these additions needed to work
within what was already working, and they added their own sets of information that needed to be passed down in the physical cells.-a The
code would have evolved after the RNA world was established, and still requires ribozymes and structural RNAs like tRNAs to function.
By the time multicellular life evolved life had already evolved sex and there was a very well evolved system of the cellular information needed
to keep the next generation of cells replicating.-a All the information needed to evolve new forms of multicellular life had to work with what
was already working or it didn't make it into the next generation.-a What you and the ID perps have to do is determine what this information is, figure out some way to quantify it so that you can run your denial
scams.-a Until you can do that you are just blowing smoke and lying to yourself and anyone listening to you.-a In the end you simply have to
admit to yourself that any god could have done it anyway that it looks
like it was done, and there is no reason why such a god would have to
rely on any magical unexplainable methods to get it done.-a Behe has resorted to claiming that his 3 neutral mutations exist when he has no reason to believe that they ever needed to exist, and he even
understands that they could exist, but they would be expected to be very rare.-a He knows that others have found 2 neutral mutations resulting in
a new function, but no one, not even Behe, has identified 3 neutral mutations being needed.-a This is pretty much what you are doing with
your empty denial arguments.
Ron Okimoto
All genetics has to work within what is already working in the
lifeform. -a-aIf new variants do not work within that context the
organism dies and has no phenotype and that lineage ends.-a Each new >>>>> evolutionary innovation has to work within what is already working
or it is not passed on to future generations.
This is why specified complexity had to distinguish scam specified
complexity to "lesser specified complexity" that could be observed
being created constantly in nature.
It is why Behe had to use neutral mutations to try to salvage his
ID scam IC claims.-a New mutations that change the function of a
protein happen all the time, and there is no limit for how many can >>>>> occur. Behe had to posit that there were proteins in his IC systems >>>>> that required 3 neutral mutations to have been specified within a
certain time limit (number of generations).-a He needed neutral
mutations because they could not be selected for and would require
random processes to get them into the same cell lineage.-a He needed >>>>> a time limit because at this time there are so many neutral
mutations in nearly all the proteins in all the lineages that when
some single mutation occurs that changes the function it is likely
using several of the past neutral mutations to create that new
function.-a The ID scam has the issue that 2 neutral mutations have >>>>> been observed to create a new function.-a Behe acknowledges that
this would be expected to routinely occur with out designer
intervention.-a This would be Dembski's "lesser" specified
complexity.-a Behe is trying to find what he claims would be
evidence for intelligent design in nature, but he has not found it
yet, and he refuses to look for it in his IC systems.
Ron Okimoto
Ron Okimoto
The ID perps are just getting around to admitting that they >>>>>>>>> have been bogusly in denial of something that they never
understood. All the denial about the genome and genetic code >>>>>>>>> was just dishonest stupidity.-a They never understood the
information that really existed.
All this means is that they should now understand that they >>>>>>>>> have to start lying about something that isn't fully
understood, and that they can't quantify in order to claim that >>>>>>>>> there is too much of it to have had to accumulate by natural >>>>>>>>> means.
How can you claim that there is an issue if you do not
understand the issue enough to figure out if there is a problem >>>>>>>>> or not?
The genetic code isn't the information that life depends on. >>>>>>>>> It has always been understood that a cell is more than it's >>>>>>>>> genome, and that the products of the genetic code depended on >>>>>>>>> the 3 dimensional information created by the RNA and protein >>>>>>>>> products of genes.-a This encoded information has to work within >>>>>>>>> what 3 dimensional information that already exists in the
cell.-a All changes have to work within what is already
working.-a This had to be true before the genetic code evolved. >>>>>>>>> All the genetic code has done is that it has improved the
efficiency of the reproduction of the cell, and it has grown in >>>>>>>>> function to direct the development of multicellular organisms >>>>>>>>> from a single cell. -a-aThe genome needs a fully functional cell >>>>>>>>> in order to do this, and every functional addition had to work >>>>>>>>> within what had already been working.
All the ID perps are admitting to is that they never had an >>>>>>>>> argument in the first place because they never understood what >>>>>>>>> they were lying about, and they still do not understand what >>>>>>>>> they are lying about in order to make any type of rational
argument.
Just think about this for a moment.-a Sternberg has claimed that >>>>>>>>> he has been thinking about this issue for a long time.-a He is >>>>>>>>> the ID perp that dishonestly got Meyer's Cambrian explosion >>>>>>>>> nonsense peer reviewed by his chosen reviewers.-a He
subsequently quit science (he was never fired nor did he lose >>>>>>>>> his office space) and quit participating in the scientific
endeavor.-a His most recent scientific publication on his web >>>>>>>>> page is from 2005, and he joined the ID perp scam outfit in >>>>>>>>> 2007 in order to support the bait and switch scam.-a He could >>>>>>>>> not use his scientific expertise to support the ID scam, so he >>>>>>>>> spent around 8 years messing with gaps in the whale fossil
record (he was an invertebrate taxonomist, but decided to
prevaricate about whale evolution). Behe destroyed his gap
stupidity by claiming that whale evolution was just the type of >>>>>>>>> evolution expected to have occurred by Darwinian mechanisms in >>>>>>>>> 2014. Behe was really claiming that his designer would have >>>>>>>>> done it some other way. Behe tried to denigrate that type of >>>>>>>>> biological evolution by calling it "devolution" but evolution >>>>>>>>> is evolution. Sternberg had to start working on something new, >>>>>>>>> so he is getting around to admitting that the ID perps have >>>>>>>>> never been lying about what they should have been lying about >>>>>>>>> in the first place.
Ron Okimoto
[1] FROM ONE CELL TO A HUMAN BEING: AN OVERVIEW OF THE PROCESS >>>>>>>>>> AND ITS MYSTERIES
*Fertilisation* begins when a sperm and ovum fuse to form a >>>>>>>>>> single cell: the *zygote*. In that moment, a new, genetically >>>>>>>>>> unique human organism exists. Yet nothing visible
distinguishes this cell from countless others. What follows is >>>>>>>>>> one of the most extraordinary processes known in nature.
---
## 1. Exponential division without growth: cleavage
Within hours, the zygote begins dividing: 1 cell becomes 2, >>>>>>>>>> then 4, 8, 16, and so on. These early divisions, called
*cleavage*, are remarkable because the total size of the
embryo does not increase. Instead, the original cytoplasm is >>>>>>>>>> partitioned into ever-smaller cells.
Key features:
* Division is rapid and tightly synchronized.
* Cells remain enclosed in the original outer membrane.
* The embryo reaches ~100 cells in a few days.
*What is striking:*
All cells initially appear equivalent, yet they are already on >>>>>>>>>> trajectories that will lead to radically different fates.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How early asymmetriesrCosubtle differences in molecular
concentrations, mechanics, and timingrCobias later cell fate >>>>>>>>>> decisions with such reliability.
---
## 2. Self-organisation and implantation: the blastocyst
After several days, the embryo reorganises into a *blastocyst* >>>>>>>>>> rCo a hollow structure with:
* an *inner cell mass* (which will become the body),
* and an *outer layer* (which will help form the placenta). >>>>>>>>>>
The blastocyst implants into the uterine wall, establishing a >>>>>>>>>> biochemical dialogue with the mother that allows pregnancy to >>>>>>>>>> continue.
*What is striking:*
This organisation emerges without a central controller. Cells >>>>>>>>>> rCLdeciderCY their roles through local interactions, gene >>>>>>>>>> regulation, and physical constraints.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How global structure arises so robustly from local rules, and >>>>>>>>>> why implantation succeeds or fails so often despite apparently >>>>>>>>>> normal embryos.
---
## 3. The body plan appears: gastrulation
Around the third week, the embryo undergoes *gastrulation*, >>>>>>>>>> often called *the most important event in your life*. A simple >>>>>>>>>> sheet of cells folds and rearranges to form three foundational >>>>>>>>>> layers:
* *Ectoderm* raA nervous system, skin
* *Mesoderm* raA muscle, bone, blood, heart
* *Endoderm* raA gut, liver, lungs
-aFrom this point onward, the basic body axesrCohead to tail, >>>>>>>>>> back to front, left to rightrCoare established.
*What is striking:*
A consistent human body plan emerges from dramatic cellular >>>>>>>>>> movements that look, under a microscope, almost chaotic.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How genetic instructions, chemical gradients, and mechanical >>>>>>>>>> forces are integrated in real time to yield precise,
repeatable anatomy.
---
## 4. Differentiation and organ formation: organogenesis
Cells now differentiate into hundreds of specialised types and >>>>>>>>>> assemble into organs. Neural cells wire themselves into
circuits. Blood vessels branch through tissues. The heart >>>>>>>>>> begins beating while still forming.
Cell numbers increase exponentially, eventually reaching *tens >>>>>>>>>> of trillions*, yet:
* proportions are maintained,
* leftrCoright symmetry is mostly preserved,
* errors are detected and corrected.
*What is striking:*
No cell rCLknowsrCY the whole plan, yet the whole plan reliably >>>>>>>>>> appears.
*What we do not fully understand:*
* How large-scale structures (like vascular trees or neural >>>>>>>>>> connectivity) are specified without explicit blueprints
* How errors are corrected without derailing development
* How timing is coordinated across vastly different scales >>>>>>>>>>
---
## 5. Uniqueness emerges
Although humans share a common body plan, no two individuals >>>>>>>>>> are the same. Small genetic differences, epigenetic marks, >>>>>>>>>> maternal factors, and environmental influences interact
throughout development to shape:
* brain wiring,
* facial structure,
* physiology,
* and predispositions across a lifetime.
*What is striking:*
Uniqueness is not added at the endrCoit emerges continuously, >>>>>>>>>> from the very first divisions.
*What we do not fully understand:*
How early microscopic differences propagate into macroscopic >>>>>>>>>> individuality, especially in the brain.
---
## The deeper wonder
-aFrom a single cell, governed by chemistry and physics, arises: >>>>>>>>>>
* consciousness,
* memory,
* creativity,
* moral agency.
This happens not through rigid instruction, but through a >>>>>>>>>> *deeply interdependent, multiscale process* that blends
genetic rules, physical law, cellular context, and self-
organisation.
Despite immense progress in molecular biology and embryology, >>>>>>>>>> we still lack:
* a complete causal map from genes to form,
* a full explanation of robustness and error correction,
* and a unifying theory of biological development comparable >>>>>>>>>> to those in physics.
*In short:*
We understand many of the parts. We understand some of the rules. >>>>>>>>>> But how those rules so reliably give rise to a new, unique >>>>>>>>>> human being remains one of the most profound and humbling >>>>>>>>>> questions in science.
(ChatGPT)
______________
[2] THE HUMAN BODY COMPRISES 11 MAJOR PHYSIOLOGICAL SYSTEMS >>>>>>>>>>
Each exhibiting high functional complexity through scale, >>>>>>>>>> precision, and cross-system integration.
1. The *nervous system* provides rapid information processing, >>>>>>>>>> with ~86 billion neurons and ~10-|rU|rCo10-|rU| synapses enabling >>>>>>>>>> millisecond- scale control while consuming ~20% of resting >>>>>>>>>> metabolic energy. Humans possess ~2rCo3|u more cortical neurons >>>>>>>>>> than great apes, and this difference alone implies orders of >>>>>>>>>> magnitude greater combinatorial processing capacity, given >>>>>>>>>> synaptic scaling; human prefrontal cortex expansion to ~25rCo30% >>>>>>>>>> of the total cortex gives disproportionately dense long-range >>>>>>>>>> connections enabling abstract reasoning, symbolic thought, >>>>>>>>>> counterfactual planning, and recursive language.
2. The *circulatory system* sustains organism-wide transport >>>>>>>>>> via ~100,000 km of blood vessels and a heart that beats
~100,000 times per day, continuously distributing oxygen, >>>>>>>>>> nutrients, hormones, and immune cells.
3. The *respiratory system* enables gas exchange through ~300 >>>>>>>>>> million alveoli generating ~70 m-# of surface area, processing >>>>>>>>>> ~10,000 liters of air per day.
4. The *digestive system* converts food into bioavailable >>>>>>>>>> energy along a ~9 m tract, with ~30rCo40 trillion gut microbes >>>>>>>>>> and ~30rCo40 m-# of absorptive surface area in the small intestine. >>>>>>>>>>
5. The *endocrine system* coordinates long-range regulation >>>>>>>>>> using hormones effective at picomolarrConanomolar
concentrations, exerting organism-wide control through nested >>>>>>>>>> feedback loops.
6. The *immune system* provides adaptive defense with ~10-|-|rCo >>>>>>>>>> 10-|-# active immune cells and the capacity to generate >10-|-# >>>>>>>>>> distinct antibody variants with long-term memory.
7. The *musculoskeletal system* enables movement and
structural support through ~206 bones and ~600 muscles, with >>>>>>>>>> continuous mechanical loading and bone remodeling (~5rCo10% >>>>>>>>>> annually).
8. The *integumentary system* forms a multifunctional
protective interface covering ~1.5rCo2.0 m-# and containing ~20 >>>>>>>>>> billion cells, integrating mechanical protection, sensation, >>>>>>>>>> and immune signaling.
9. The *urinary (renal) system* maintains chemical homeostasis >>>>>>>>>> by filtering ~180 liters of blood per day across ~2 million >>>>>>>>>> nephrons, reabsorbing >99% of filtrate with high selectivity. >>>>>>>>>>
10. The *reproductive system* supports species continuity >>>>>>>>>> through hormonally regulated gamete production (up to hundreds >>>>>>>>>> of millions of sperm per day in males) and cyclic reproductive >>>>>>>>>> physiology in females.
11. The *lymphatic system* complements circulation and
immunity by returning ~2rCo4 liters of interstitial fluid daily >>>>>>>>>> and coordinating immune surveillance across hundreds of lymph >>>>>>>>>> nodes.
Taken together, these systems form a deeply interdependent, >>>>>>>>>> multiscale biological architecture, in which trillions of >>>>>>>>>> components are dynamically regulated with molecular precision >>>>>>>>>> to maintain stability, adaptability, and continuity of the >>>>>>>>>> human organism.
(ChatGPT)
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