From Newsgroup: talk.origins
On 12/29/2025 5:21 PM, MarkE wrote:
On 29/12/2025 4:33 am, RonO wrote:
On 12/28/2025 8:01 AM, jillery wrote:
On Wed, 24 Dec 2025 21:07:17 -0600, RonO <rokimoto557@gmail.com>
wrote:
On 12/24/2025 5:32 PM, sticks wrote:
On 12/24/2025 12:31 PM, RonO wrote:
Merry Christmas and best wishes for the new year.
---snip---
Sad really that you couldn't have just stopped here with your
followup,
but instead had to once again inject this obsession of yours into even >>>>> this.
In 2026 TO will be 40.-a Snipping out the relevant history doesn't
change
reality.-a It is just a fact that the Supreme court decision should have >>>> been the end of the creationist denial stupidity, but it just caused
the
name change of creationism to intelligent design, and that court
decision occurred just one year after TO started.-a Creationists in
denial like yourself and MarkE have been beating a dead horse for
nearly
as long as TO has existed.
Ron Okimoto
To give credit where it's due, it could reasonably be argued that
Creationists are responsible for T.O.'s existence.
There probably is no doubt that TO would not exist if it were not for
Biblical creationists.-a They were satisfied with banning biological
evolution from the public schools, but after Sputnik and the
subsequent improvements in public school science textbooks, along with
the reversal of the bans, anti evolution became more public.-a Even
after the failure of teaching scientific creationism in Arkansas the
creationists just became worse in terms of the whackos posting to real
science groups. They never had any valid science to discuss, and TO
gave them a forum to be shown how bogus their views were without
bothering serious science. A lot of them were much better than any
IDiots ever were in terms of presenting their arguments.-a Initially
you had creationists trying to support their Biblical beliefs
directly.-a They were trying to justify a global flood, and young
earth.-a With the abject failure of these attempts TO started to get
more of the switch scam denial type arguments that were in the Gish
Gallop along with the continued efforts to support the Bible.-a This
persisted until the turn of the century.-a The ID scam first came to TO
in the 1990's as something that the creationists wanted to teach in
the public schools, but no one seemed to know what the ID science was,
but the stupid claims to support things like the Biblical flood
persisted into the new century.
The ID perps formed the ISCID (ID science organization) and it was
active until the bait and switch started to go down in 2002.-a The last
paper that I recall being put up was in 2003, and the site was
moribund until Dover hit the fan and the ID perps reformated the
site.-a One of the papers removed was the flood geology paper (Yes, a
Biblical flood geology research paper had been put up on the ISCID
site) that had been up on the site for years, but it didn't make the
cut when the site was reformated in 2005.-a The ID perps dissolved
their science organization in 2008 likely because ID perps were likely
the only members left.
Philip Johnson posted to TO in the late 1990's, but he never discussed
any ID science.-a His denial claims were about the inadequacies of
Darwinism.-a The ID scam would not become the major topic of TO until
after the Bait and Switch first went down in 2002, when every one with
a clue knew that it was just a worthless scam.-a Really, after the bait
and switch started to go down Mike Gene claimed that he had given up
on teaching the junk back in 1999, but he still supported using ID as
bait until after the failure in Dover.
The Supreme Court ruling against creation science occurred just a year
after TO started, and resulted in the name change from creationism to
intelligent design years before the ID scam unit at the Discovery
Institute would be founded in 1995.-a That is all just history.
Ron Okimoto
RonO MO on TO:
Repetitively disparage, dismiss and accuse of fraud and deception creationism and individual creationists, especially in relation to ID.
Name a single honest ID perp that has ever existed. How many objected
and resigned when the ID perps began running the bait and switch instead
of delivering any ID science to teach in the public schools? Meyer was director of the ID scam, was the head cheerleader for teaching it in the public schools and personally ran the first bait and switch on the Ohio
rubes back in 2002 to start to make the bait and switch a reality.
Nelson only started justifying the bait and switch effort by claiming
that the ID science had never existed, but they were working on
developing some. He didn't quit the Wedge efforts in disgust, but kept supporting ID as bait. None of the ID perps quit the ID scam when the
bait and switch started.
Have there ever been any honest competent and informed IDiotic support
for the ID creationist bait and switch scam? Some IDiotic creationists
were honest enough to quit when the bait and switch started to go down,
but how many kept supporting ID as bait? How dishonest do you have to
be to remain an IDiot after the bait and switch has been going down for
over 2 decades. By the time the bait and switch had been going down for
over 2 years it was evident that the only IDiots left in existence were
the ignorant, incompetent and or dishonest. You were posting to ARN
when the bait and switch went down, so you know what kind of IDiots kept supporting the scam after the bait and switch became the only way
forward to support the creationist Wedge goals. Really, I did not start calling the scam artists ID perps until late 2004 just before Dover hit
the fan. It was obvious that the ID perps were never going to stop
running the bait and switch on creationist rubes like yourself. The
bait and switch had gone down a couple dozen times by then. How
competent and honest did Kalk, Bill and yourself turn out to be once the
ID perps virtually committed suicide by putting out the Top Six in the
order in which they must have occurred in this universe? Once Kalk and
Bill realized that they had never wanted any ID science to ever have
been produced they quit the ID scam. Kalk claimed that he was going to concentrate on other aspects of his religious beliefs and Bill just
claimed that he had never supported the ID scam. Bill is the IDiot that claimed that he knew some real ID scientists that had real ID science,
but he never put any of them forward for evaluation.
That is how lame creationism became when they changed the name of what
they were doing from creationism to intelligent design in Of Pandas and
People after the Supreme court determined that scientific creationism
wasn't any science worth teaching in the public schools. Of Pandas and
People was written to support creationism without the Bible verses and Biblical mythology so that it could be used to teach creationism in the
public schools. The Arkansas court case had determined that there were
no suitable materials that could be used to teach scientific creationism
in the public schools because all the creationist literature was laced
with Bible verses and Biblical mythology. Of Pandas and people was
supposed to rectify that situation, but it turned out that what the
scientific creationists had to teach wasn't any science worth teaching.
This approach is something like a creationist dismissing evolution using copy-paste attacks on Piltdown Man, HaeckelrCOs Embryos etc.
Lying about reality isn't going to change reality.
Ron, if you imagine yourself to be protector and champion against the
evil of ID, I recommend a different approach.
I am not a protector or champion of anything. Nothing that I agree with
needs protecting. The ID scam was never a challenge to real science
once it became a religious scam that they were running on their own creationist support base. The ID perps became the major influence in
keeping creationism out of the public schools. The rubes had never
listened to the science side, but when the guys who sold you the scam
tell you not to teach it most of the rubes have enough of a clue to
fold. Nearly all of the creationist rubes dropped the effort instead of
bend over for the obfuscation and denial switch scam. The bait and
switch is still going down. Luskin is coauthor of the current teach ID
scam propaganda that claims that the Dover decision was wrong, and that
even though ID was found to be illegal to teach in the public schools of
Dover that it is still legal to teach the junk in the public schools of
other states. Luskin is the current ID perp designated to run the bait
and switch on any hapless rube that believes what he wrote.
On a good day you demonstrate expertise and ability to meaningfully
engage and contribute. Stop blowing smoke and give us more good days.
Lying about reality isn't going to change reality. I have never blown
smoke. That is all that the ID perps ever had, and the bait and switch
scam that they are running is evidence of that. Really, no one else but
the ID perps are claiming that ID can be taught in the public schools at
this time. I know of no other organizations that claim that ID can be
taught in the public schools. Luskin is going to run the bait and
switch scam on the Arizona legislator that currently wants to teach ID
in the Arizona public schools, and you will keep lying to yourself about reality.
Ron Okimoto
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