• ID perps lying about their involvement with the teach ID scam

    From RonO@rokimoto557@gmail.com to talk-origins on Mon Dec 15 15:17:01 2025
    From Newsgroup: talk.origins

    https://scienceandculture.com/2025/12/ten-myths-about-dover-no-9-the-id-movement-had-its-day-in-court/

    It seems strange that the ID perps would want to rewrite history at this
    late date. Why lie about something this stupid? The Wedge document
    listed getting the ID scam taught in 10 states as one of the 5 year
    Objectives of the Wedge strategy. The Wedge document was supposed to
    have been published in 1998, and they might have made that objective if
    they had not started running the bait and switch instead of providing
    the nonexistent ID science for the creationist rubes to teach.

    QUOTE:
    6. Ten states begin to rectify ideological imbalance in their science curricula & include design theory
    END QUOTE:

    The ID perps were "the" organization selling the teach ID scam when
    Dover hit the fan. Even after they started running the bait and switch
    in 2002 they were still claiming that the Santorum amendment supported teaching ID in the public schools. The ID Network had removed the teach
    ID scam propaganda from their web site when the bait and switch started
    to go down and were only pushing the obfuscation and denial switch scam
    at that time (2005).

    The Dover rubes didn't know it but they were following the ID perp's
    game plan when they purchased Of Pandas and People in order to teach ID
    in their public schools.

    The ID perps published a booklet on teaching the ID scam junk in the
    public schools in 1999 and it is still available at ARN and they have
    never retracted what was written in this document. They used to give
    the booklet out along with their ID scam video until they started
    running the bait and switch. The guide book is still available at ARN
    and was available to down load from the the ID perp's web site when
    Dover hit the fan.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20021230161955/http://www.discovery.org:80/viewDB/index.php3?program=CRSC&command=view&id=58
    This is a Discovery Institute link from 2004. They modified this page
    so that you could download the document for free. You can still use
    this archived link to download a copy.

    Teaching the Controversy:
    Darwinism, Design and the Public School Science Curriculum
    David K. DeWolf, Stephen C. Meyer, Mark E. DeForrest https://www.arn.org/docs/dewolf/guidebook.htm

    QUOTE from the Conclusion:
    Moreover, as the previous discussion demonstrates, school boards have
    the authority to permit, and even encourage, teaching about design
    theory as an alternative to Darwinian evolution-and this includes the
    use of textbooks such as Of Pandas and People that present evidence for
    the theory of intelligent design.
    END QUOTE:

    DeWolf was head of legal for the Discovery Institute. Meyer was the
    director of the ID scam unit and Deforrest claimed to be a fellow of the Discovery Institute on his web page, but I do not think that he was ever listed as a fellow of the ID scam unit on the Discovery Institute web page.

    This is why the name change from creationism to intelligent design demonstrated the ID scam to be just what it had been from the beginning,
    warmed over creationist stupidity.

    Dembski was editing the next edition of Pandas, Meyer had written the
    teachers notes for the textbook, and Behe admitted that he had written
    some of it, but had not been credited. After Forrest's deposition
    (Dembski sat in on the deposition) both Dembski and Meyer ran and did
    not testify. Drafts of Dembski's edition had also been sobpoenaed but
    that issue was dropped when Dembski ran.

    There is absolutely no doubt that the ID perps at the Discovery
    Institute were the main drivers of the Teach ID bait and switch scam at
    the time that Dover hit the fan. They tried to run the bait and switch
    on the Dover rubes, but the Dover rubes were too stupid and ignorant to understand that the ID perps were the ones running the teach ID scam,
    and they would not bend over for the switch scam and tried to teach ID
    anyway.

    Ex Senator Santorum had, had the bait and switch run on him in Ohio in
    2002, but still came out in support of his Santorum "amendment" and
    supported teaching ID in the Dover public schools of his home state.
    The ID perps had to run the bait and switch on Santorum again, and he flip-flopped on the issue during his reelection campaign and his
    Republican rivals took advantage and questioned Santorum's religious convictions for refusing to support teaching ID in the public schools.
    That was also a stab in the heart of the creationist lies about the ID science. Santorum's Republican rivals knew that the ID scam was a
    religious issue. Santorum quit the ID scam and when he ran for
    President he claimed that he supported Biblical creationism and not ID.

    Ron Okimoto

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  • From RonO@rokimoto557@gmail.com to talk-origins on Mon Dec 15 20:51:53 2025
    From Newsgroup: talk.origins

    On 12/15/2025 3:17 PM, RonO wrote:
    https://scienceandculture.com/2025/12/ten-myths-about-dover-no-9-the-id- movement-had-its-day-in-court/

    It seems strange that the ID perps would want to rewrite history at this late date.-a Why lie about something this stupid?-a The Wedge document listed getting the ID scam taught in 10 states as one of the 5 year Objectives of the Wedge strategy.-a The Wedge document was supposed to
    have been published in 1998, and they might have made that objective if
    they had not started running the bait and switch instead of providing
    the nonexistent ID science for the creationist rubes to teach.

    QUOTE:
    6. Ten states begin to rectify ideological imbalance in their science curricula & include design theory
    END QUOTE:

    forgot the link:
    https://ncse.ngo/wedge-document


    The ID perps were "the" organization selling the teach ID scam when
    Dover hit the fan.-a Even after they started running the bait and switch
    in 2002 they were still claiming that the Santorum amendment supported teaching ID in the public schools.-a The ID Network had removed the teach
    ID scam propaganda from their web site when the bait and switch started
    to go down and were only pushing the obfuscation and denial switch scam
    at that time (2005).

    The Dover rubes didn't know it but they were following the ID perp's
    game plan when they purchased Of Pandas and People in order to teach ID
    in their public schools.

    The ID perps published a booklet on teaching the ID scam junk in the
    public schools in 1999 and it is still available at ARN and they have
    never retracted what was written in this document.-a They used to give
    the booklet out along with their ID scam video until they started
    running the bait and switch.-a The guide book is still available at ARN
    and was available to down load from the the ID perp's web site when
    Dover hit the fan.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20021230161955/http://www.discovery.org:80/ viewDB/index.php3?program=CRSC&command=view&id=58
    This is a Discovery Institute link from 2004.-a They modified this page
    so that you could download the document for free.-a You can still use
    this archived link to download a copy.

    Teaching the Controversy:
    Darwinism, Design and the Public School Science Curriculum
    David K. DeWolf, Stephen C. Meyer, Mark E. DeForrest https://www.arn.org/docs/dewolf/guidebook.htm

    QUOTE from the Conclusion:
    Moreover, as the previous discussion demonstrates, school boards have
    the authority to permit, and even encourage, teaching about design
    theory as an alternative to Darwinian evolution-and this includes the
    use of textbooks such as Of Pandas and People that present evidence for
    the theory of intelligent design.
    END QUOTE:

    DeWolf was head of legal for the Discovery Institute.-a Meyer was the director of the ID scam unit and Deforrest claimed to be a fellow of the Discovery Institute on his web page, but I do not think that he was ever listed as a fellow of the ID scam unit on the Discovery Institute web page.

    This is why the name change from creationism to intelligent design demonstrated the ID scam to be just what it had been from the beginning,
    -awarmed over creationist stupidity.

    Dembski was editing the next edition of Pandas, Meyer had written the teachers notes for the textbook, and Behe admitted that he had written
    some of it, but had not been credited.-a After Forrest's deposition
    (Dembski sat in on the deposition) both Dembski and Meyer ran and did
    not testify.-a Drafts of Dembski's edition had also been sobpoenaed but
    that issue was dropped when Dembski ran.

    There is absolutely no doubt that the ID perps at the Discovery
    Institute were the main drivers of the Teach ID bait and switch scam at
    the time that Dover hit the fan.-a They tried to run the bait and switch
    on the Dover rubes, but the Dover rubes were too stupid and ignorant to understand that the ID perps were the ones running the teach ID scam,
    and they would not bend over for the switch scam and tried to teach ID anyway.

    Ex Senator Santorum had, had the bait and switch run on him in Ohio in
    2002, but still came out in support of his Santorum "amendment" and supported teaching ID in the Dover public schools of his home state. The
    ID perps had to run the bait and switch on Santorum again, and he flip- flopped on the issue during his reelection campaign and his Republican rivals took advantage and questioned Santorum's religious convictions
    for refusing to support teaching ID in the public schools. That was also
    a stab in the heart of the creationist lies about the ID science. Santorum's Republican rivals knew that the ID scam was a religious
    issue.-a Santorum quit the ID scam and when he ran for President he
    claimed that he supported Biblical creationism and not ID.

    Ron Okimoto


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  • From RonO@rokimoto557@gmail.com to talk-origins on Tue Dec 16 18:42:46 2025
    From Newsgroup: talk.origins

    On 12/15/2025 8:51 PM, RonO wrote:
    On 12/15/2025 3:17 PM, RonO wrote:
    https://scienceandculture.com/2025/12/ten-myths-about-dover-no-9-the-
    id- movement-had-its-day-in-court/

    It seems strange that the ID perps would want to rewrite history at
    this late date.-a Why lie about something this stupid?-a The Wedge
    document listed getting the ID scam taught in 10 states as one of the
    5 year Objectives of the Wedge strategy.-a The Wedge document was
    supposed to have been published in 1998, and they might have made that
    objective if they had not started running the bait and switch instead
    of providing the nonexistent ID science for the creationist rubes to
    teach.

    QUOTE:
    6. Ten states begin to rectify ideological imbalance in their science
    curricula & include design theory
    END QUOTE:

    forgot the link:
    https://ncse.ngo/wedge-document


    The ID perps were "the" organization selling the teach ID scam when
    Dover hit the fan.-a Even after they started running the bait and
    switch in 2002 they were still claiming that the Santorum amendment
    supported teaching ID in the public schools.-a The ID Network had
    removed the teach ID scam propaganda from their web site when the bait
    and switch started to go down and were only pushing the obfuscation
    and denial switch scam at that time (2005).

    The Dover rubes didn't know it but they were following the ID perp's
    game plan when they purchased Of Pandas and People in order to teach
    ID in their public schools.

    The ID perps published a booklet on teaching the ID scam junk in the
    public schools in 1999 and it is still available at ARN and they have
    never retracted what was written in this document.-a They used to give
    the booklet out along with their ID scam video until they started
    running the bait and switch.-a The guide book is still available at ARN
    and was available to down load from the the ID perp's web site when
    Dover hit the fan.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20021230161955/http://
    www.discovery.org:80/ viewDB/index.php3?program=CRSC&command=view&id=58
    This is a Discovery Institute link from 2004.-a They modified this page
    so that you could download the document for free.-a You can still use
    this archived link to download a copy.

    Teaching the Controversy:
    Darwinism, Design and the Public School Science Curriculum
    David K. DeWolf, Stephen C. Meyer, Mark E. DeForrest
    https://www.arn.org/docs/dewolf/guidebook.htm

    QUOTE from the Conclusion:
    Moreover, as the previous discussion demonstrates, school boards have
    the authority to permit, and even encourage, teaching about design
    theory as an alternative to Darwinian evolution-and this includes the
    use of textbooks such as Of Pandas and People that present evidence
    for the theory of intelligent design.
    END QUOTE:

    DeWolf was head of legal for the Discovery Institute.-a Meyer was the
    director of the ID scam unit and Deforrest claimed to be a fellow of
    the Discovery Institute on his web page, but I do not think that he
    was ever listed as a fellow of the ID scam unit on the Discovery
    Institute web page.

    This is why the name change from creationism to intelligent design
    demonstrated the ID scam to be just what it had been from the
    beginning, -a-awarmed over creationist stupidity.

    Dembski was editing the next edition of Pandas, Meyer had written the
    teachers notes for the textbook, and Behe admitted that he had written
    some of it, but had not been credited.-a After Forrest's deposition
    (Dembski sat in on the deposition) both Dembski and Meyer ran and did
    not testify.-a Drafts of Dembski's edition had also been sobpoenaed but
    that issue was dropped when Dembski ran.

    There is absolutely no doubt that the ID perps at the Discovery
    Institute were the main drivers of the Teach ID bait and switch scam
    at the time that Dover hit the fan.-a They tried to run the bait and
    switch on the Dover rubes, but the Dover rubes were too stupid and
    ignorant to understand that the ID perps were the ones running the
    teach ID scam, and they would not bend over for the switch scam and
    tried to teach ID anyway.

    Ex Senator Santorum had, had the bait and switch run on him in Ohio in
    2002, but still came out in support of his Santorum "amendment" and
    supported teaching ID in the Dover public schools of his home state.
    The ID perps had to run the bait and switch on Santorum again, and he
    flip- flopped on the issue during his reelection campaign and his
    Republican rivals took advantage and questioned Santorum's religious
    convictions for refusing to support teaching ID in the public schools.
    That was also a stab in the heart of the creationist lies about the ID
    science. Santorum's Republican rivals knew that the ID scam was a
    religious issue.-a Santorum quit the ID scam and when he ran for
    President he claimed that he supported Biblical creationism and not ID.


    This likely needs the link to the description of the "Of Pandas and
    People" Kitzmiller fiasco.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Of_Pandas_and_People

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitzmiller_v._Dover_Area_School_District

    This is what ex Senator Santorum had to say about teaching the ID scam
    in the public schools the first time that the bait and switch was run on
    him for Ohio 2002. It also demonstrates how the Santorum "amendment"
    was being sold by the ID perps at that time, and is one of the main
    reasons why states like Ohio started talking about teaching the ID scam
    junk.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20021001234047/http:/www.washingtontimes.com/commentary/20020314-50858765.htm

    Santorum wrote this editorial just before the ID perps ran the bait and
    switch scam on the Ohio rubes. Phillip Johnson cited this editorial on
    his ID web blog before the bait and switch went down. My guess is that Johnson did not know that the bait and switch was going down because
    there was no reason to point out what a fool Santorum had to be for
    supporting the teach ID scam. Johnson retired from his ID web blog one
    month after the bait and switch went down on Ohio. Johnson may have
    been the only one of the original ID perps to retire instead of continue
    to support ID as a bait and switch scam. Johnson did come out of
    retirement to support teaching ID in Dover. My guess is that he did it
    to hold the other ID perp's feet to the fire and make them support ID.
    Half the ID perps ran anyway.

    Ron Okimoto


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