From Newsgroup: talk.origins

https://abcnews.go.com/

"Why some people are adopting turkeys instead of eating them" is a
video. It is currently the top of the list, but it goes down as more
are added.

It gets to some people that turkeys are likely smarter than your dog or
cat. They have a bird's brain, and it is more efficient (in terms of
what it can do relative to it's size) than a mammlian brain. I've known people who treat their turkey like they would their dog. It can follow
you around the yard and seems to want attention just like any other pet.
We have likely selected them to be less mentally atuned than their
wild counterparts just like we selected dogs to have around 30% smaller
brains by body weight than wolves. Dogs were the major protein source
before turkeys were domesticated for Mexico and South America.
Basically you need a food animal to stick around long enough to be eaten.

Ron Okimoto

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: talk.origins

On Wed, 26 Nov 2025 15:35:43 -0600, RonO <rokimoto557@gmail.com>
wrote:

https://abcnews.go.com/

"Why some people are adopting turkeys instead of eating them" is a
video. It is currently the top of the list, but it goes down as more
are added.

It gets to some people that turkeys are likely smarter than your dog or
cat. They have a bird's brain, and it is more efficient (in terms of
what it can do relative to it's size) than a mammlian brain. I've known >people who treat their turkey like they would their dog. It can follow
you around the yard and seems to want attention just like any other pet.
We have likely selected them to be less mentally atuned than their
wild counterparts just like we selected dogs to have around 30% smaller >brains by body weight than wolves. Dogs were the major protein source >before turkeys were domesticated for Mexico and South America.
Basically you need a food animal to stick around long enough to be eaten.

Ron Okimoto

I have read that domestic turkeys are dumber than rocks, but wild
turkeys are quite alert. OTOH I also read that wild toms can be
territorial and aggressive even with their owners, attacking the back
of a person's neck.
--
To know less than we don't know is the nature of most knowledge
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: talk.origins

On 11/27/2025 5:53 AM, jillery wrote:

On Wed, 26 Nov 2025 15:35:43 -0600, RonO <rokimoto557@gmail.com>
wrote:

https://abcnews.go.com/

"Why some people are adopting turkeys instead of eating them" is a
video. It is currently the top of the list, but it goes down as more
are added.

It gets to some people that turkeys are likely smarter than your dog or
cat. They have a bird's brain, and it is more efficient (in terms of
what it can do relative to it's size) than a mammlian brain. I've known
people who treat their turkey like they would their dog. It can follow
you around the yard and seems to want attention just like any other pet.
We have likely selected them to be less mentally atuned than their
wild counterparts just like we selected dogs to have around 30% smaller
brains by body weight than wolves. Dogs were the major protein source
before turkeys were domesticated for Mexico and South America.
Basically you need a food animal to stick around long enough to be eaten.

Ron Okimoto

I have read that domestic turkeys are dumber than rocks, but wild
turkeys are quite alert. OTOH I also read that wild toms can be
territorial and aggressive even with their owners, attacking the back
of a person's neck.

Domestic turkeys have been bred so that a lot of the instinctive
behaviors have been lost, just like domestic dogs, but my guess is that
they might still be smarter in terms of observation, movement within and analysis of their environment than dogs. As I noted, I've known people
that treat their turkey like they would a dog. They just have lost instinctive reactions to the environment. The turkeys seem to want the company. They no longer react to environmental stimuli in the same way
that wild turkeys do, and lack the knee jerk reactions. My guess is
that we have never evaluated just how intelligent turkeys and chickens
are because we eat them. There was that article that I put up several
years ago where they determined that baby chicks might be self aware, something that dogs and cats may lack. They noted that if they had a
chick isolated even in the presence of mirrors that it would give the gathering call to be with other chicks, but if instead of a mirror they
had a window where they could see another chick that they would not give
the gathering call. They seemed to know the difference between their reflection and another bird. Chicken is the most consumed animal in the
US. Over 9 billion of them are raised every year in the US. Each one
only has two wings to give up for the Superbowl.

Ron Okimoto

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: talk.origins

RonO <rokimoto557@gmail.com> wrote:

On 11/27/2025 5:53 AM, jillery wrote:

On Wed, 26 Nov 2025 15:35:43 -0600, RonO <rokimoto557@gmail.com>
wrote:

https://abcnews.go.com/

"Why some people are adopting turkeys instead of eating them" is a
video. It is currently the top of the list, but it goes down as more
are added.

It gets to some people that turkeys are likely smarter than your dog or
cat. They have a bird's brain, and it is more efficient (in terms of
what it can do relative to it's size) than a mammlian brain. I've known >> people who treat their turkey like they would their dog. It can follow
you around the yard and seems to want attention just like any other pet. >> We have likely selected them to be less mentally atuned than their
wild counterparts just like we selected dogs to have around 30% smaller
brains by body weight than wolves. Dogs were the major protein source
before turkeys were domesticated for Mexico and South America.
Basically you need a food animal to stick around long enough to be eaten. >>
Ron Okimoto

I have read that domestic turkeys are dumber than rocks, but wild
turkeys are quite alert. OTOH I also read that wild toms can be territorial and aggressive even with their owners, attacking the back
of a person's neck.

Domestic turkeys have been bred so that a lot of the instinctive
behaviors have been lost, just like domestic dogs, but my guess is that
they might still be smarter in terms of observation, movement within and analysis of their environment than dogs. As I noted, I've known people
that treat their turkey like they would a dog. They just have lost instinctive reactions to the environment. The turkeys seem to want the company. They no longer react to environmental stimuli in the same way
that wild turkeys do, and lack the knee jerk reactions. My guess is
that we have never evaluated just how intelligent turkeys and chickens
are because we eat them. There was that article that I put up several
years ago where they determined that baby chicks might be self aware, something that dogs and cats may lack. They noted that if they had a
chick isolated even in the presence of mirrors that it would give the gathering call to be with other chicks, but if instead of a mirror they
had a window where they could see another chick that they would not give
the gathering call. They seemed to know the difference between their reflection and another bird.

I raised turkeys a couple times, and I testify that they are really,
really dumb. Even dumber than the chickens. They have barely enough
neural activity to maintain consciousness.

Cockroaches are smarter than domestic turkeys, and cockroaches are dumb
enough to run under your upraised foot to hide.

Wild turkeys are a different story.

Chicken is the most consumed animal in the
US. Over 9 billion of them are raised every year in the US. Each one
only has two wings to give up for the Superbowl.

Ron Okimoto

That's why we depend on buffalo to make up the shortage.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: talk.origins

On Thu, 27 Nov 2025 10:52:00 -0800, Rufus <ru@ru.ru> wrote:

RonO <rokimoto557@gmail.com> wrote:

On 11/27/2025 5:53 AM, jillery wrote:

On Wed, 26 Nov 2025 15:35:43 -0600, RonO <rokimoto557@gmail.com>
wrote:

https://abcnews.go.com/

"Why some people are adopting turkeys instead of eating them" is a
video. It is currently the top of the list, but it goes down as more
are added.

It gets to some people that turkeys are likely smarter than your dog or >> >> cat. They have a bird's brain, and it is more efficient (in terms of
what it can do relative to it's size) than a mammlian brain. I've known >> >> people who treat their turkey like they would their dog. It can follow >> >> you around the yard and seems to want attention just like any other pet. >> >> We have likely selected them to be less mentally atuned than their
wild counterparts just like we selected dogs to have around 30% smaller >> >> brains by body weight than wolves. Dogs were the major protein source
before turkeys were domesticated for Mexico and South America.
Basically you need a food animal to stick around long enough to be eaten. >> >>
Ron Okimoto

I have read that domestic turkeys are dumber than rocks, but wild
turkeys are quite alert. OTOH I also read that wild toms can be
territorial and aggressive even with their owners, attacking the back
of a person's neck.

Domestic turkeys have been bred so that a lot of the instinctive
behaviors have been lost, just like domestic dogs, but my guess is that
they might still be smarter in terms of observation, movement within and
analysis of their environment than dogs. As I noted, I've known people
that treat their turkey like they would a dog. They just have lost
instinctive reactions to the environment. The turkeys seem to want the
company. They no longer react to environmental stimuli in the same way
that wild turkeys do, and lack the knee jerk reactions. My guess is
that we have never evaluated just how intelligent turkeys and chickens
are because we eat them. There was that article that I put up several
years ago where they determined that baby chicks might be self aware,
something that dogs and cats may lack. They noted that if they had a
chick isolated even in the presence of mirrors that it would give the
gathering call to be with other chicks, but if instead of a mirror they
had a window where they could see another chick that they would not give
the gathering call. They seemed to know the difference between their
reflection and another bird.

I raised turkeys a couple times, and I testify that they are really,
really dumb. Even dumber than the chickens. They have barely enough
neural activity to maintain consciousness.

Cockroaches are smarter than domestic turkeys, and cockroaches are dumb >enough to run under your upraised foot to hide.

Perhaps this is from their impoverished childhood (nature vs. nurture)

Wild turkeys are a different story.

Chicken is the most consumed animal in the
US. Over 9 billion of them are raised every year in the US. Each one
only has two wings to give up for the Superbowl.

Ron Okimoto

That's why we depend on buffalo to make up the shortage.

--
To know less than we don't know is the nature of most knowledge
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: talk.origins

On 11/27/2025 12:52 PM, Rufus wrote:

RonO <rokimoto557@gmail.com> wrote:

On 11/27/2025 5:53 AM, jillery wrote:

On Wed, 26 Nov 2025 15:35:43 -0600, RonO <rokimoto557@gmail.com>
wrote:

https://abcnews.go.com/

"Why some people are adopting turkeys instead of eating them" is a
video. It is currently the top of the list, but it goes down as more
are added.

It gets to some people that turkeys are likely smarter than your dog or >>>> cat. They have a bird's brain, and it is more efficient (in terms of
what it can do relative to it's size) than a mammlian brain. I've known >>>> people who treat their turkey like they would their dog. It can follow >>>> you around the yard and seems to want attention just like any other pet. >>>> We have likely selected them to be less mentally atuned than their
wild counterparts just like we selected dogs to have around 30% smaller >>>> brains by body weight than wolves. Dogs were the major protein source >>>> before turkeys were domesticated for Mexico and South America.
Basically you need a food animal to stick around long enough to be eaten. >>>>
Ron Okimoto

I have read that domestic turkeys are dumber than rocks, but wild
turkeys are quite alert. OTOH I also read that wild toms can be
territorial and aggressive even with their owners, attacking the back
of a person's neck.

Domestic turkeys have been bred so that a lot of the instinctive
behaviors have been lost, just like domestic dogs, but my guess is that
they might still be smarter in terms of observation, movement within and
analysis of their environment than dogs. As I noted, I've known people
that treat their turkey like they would a dog. They just have lost
instinctive reactions to the environment. The turkeys seem to want the
company. They no longer react to environmental stimuli in the same way
that wild turkeys do, and lack the knee jerk reactions. My guess is
that we have never evaluated just how intelligent turkeys and chickens
are because we eat them. There was that article that I put up several
years ago where they determined that baby chicks might be self aware,
something that dogs and cats may lack. They noted that if they had a
chick isolated even in the presence of mirrors that it would give the
gathering call to be with other chicks, but if instead of a mirror they
had a window where they could see another chick that they would not give
the gathering call. They seemed to know the difference between their
reflection and another bird.

I raised turkeys a couple times, and I testify that they are really,
really dumb. Even dumber than the chickens. They have barely enough
neural activity to maintain consciousness.

Cockroaches are smarter than domestic turkeys, and cockroaches are dumb enough to run under your upraised foot to hide.

Wild turkeys are a different story.

Chicken is the most consumed animal in the
US. Over 9 billion of them are raised every year in the US. Each one
only has two wings to give up for the Superbowl.

Ron Okimoto

That's why we depend on buffalo to make up the shortage.

You are likely mixing up the reduction in instinctive behaviors to lack
of consciousness. Domestic turkeys are likely just as aware of their environment, they just do not react to the environment in the knee jerk instinctive behaviors that they had before domestication. I once worked
with an inbred chicken line that seemed to be unconscious most of the
time. Leghorns are known as a "flighty" breed because they run from
humans and perform their escape behaviors, but this inbred line seemed
to be brain dead. I was told that when they were raised in pens on the
ground that you had to walk through the pen shuffling to nudge them out
of the way to keep from stepping on them. In cages normal Leghorns
would retreat to the back of the cage but these birds would just sit and
stare at you as if they were not aware of you. They would not try to
escape until you touched them. They were not blind because when a male
was placed on the floor with a female he would go through his mating
dance, so the birds would respond to some visual stimuli.

The birds aren't stupid, they just do not react to stimuli normally.

Ron Okimoto

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: talk.origins

On Nov 27, 2025, Rufus wrote
(in article<sl6hik5g17s7tvm3spuagpm1cjsccmr8pg@4ax.com>):

RonO <rokimoto557@gmail.com> wrote:

On 11/27/2025 5:53 AM, jillery wrote:

On Wed, 26 Nov 2025 15:35:43 -0600, RonO<rokimoto557@gmail.com>
wrote:

https://abcnews.go.com/

"Why some people are adopting turkeys instead of eating them" is a video. It is currently the top of the list, but it goes down as more are added.

It gets to some people that turkeys are likely smarter than your dog or cat. They have a bird's brain, and it is more efficient (in terms of what it can do relative to it's size) than a mammlian brain. I've known people who treat their turkey like they would their dog. It can follow you around the yard and seems to want attention just like any other pet.
We have likely selected them to be less mentally atuned than their
wild counterparts just like we selected dogs to have around 30% smaller brains by body weight than wolves. Dogs were the major protein source before turkeys were domesticated for Mexico and South America. Basically you need a food animal to stick around long enough to be eaten.

Ron Okimoto

I have read that domestic turkeys are dumber than rocks, but wild
turkeys are quite alert. OTOH I also read that wild toms can be territorial and aggressive even with their owners, attacking the back
of a person's neck.

Domestic turkeys have been bred so that a lot of the instinctive
behaviors have been lost, just like domestic dogs, but my guess is that they might still be smarter in terms of observation, movement within and analysis of their environment than dogs. As I noted, I've known people
that treat their turkey like they would a dog. They just have lost instinctive reactions to the environment. The turkeys seem to want the company. They no longer react to environmental stimuli in the same way
that wild turkeys do, and lack the knee jerk reactions. My guess is
that we have never evaluated just how intelligent turkeys and chickens
are because we eat them. There was that article that I put up several
years ago where they determined that baby chicks might be self aware, something that dogs and cats may lack. They noted that if they had a
chick isolated even in the presence of mirrors that it would give the gathering call to be with other chicks, but if instead of a mirror they
had a window where they could see another chick that they would not give the gathering call. They seemed to know the difference between their reflection and another bird.

I raised turkeys a couple times, and I testify that they are really,
really dumb. Even dumber than the chickens. They have barely enough
neural activity to maintain consciousness.

Ah. Domestic turkeys, the Dan Quayle of birds.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: talk.origins

On 12/3/25 1:49 PM, WolfFan wrote:

On Nov 27, 2025, Rufus wrote
(in article<sl6hik5g17s7tvm3spuagpm1cjsccmr8pg@4ax.com>):

RonO <rokimoto557@gmail.com> wrote:

On 11/27/2025 5:53 AM, jillery wrote:

On Wed, 26 Nov 2025 15:35:43 -0600, RonO<rokimoto557@gmail.com>
wrote:

https://abcnews.go.com/

"Why some people are adopting turkeys instead of eating them" is a
video. It is currently the top of the list, but it goes down as more >>>>> are added.

It gets to some people that turkeys are likely smarter than your dog or >>>>> cat. They have a bird's brain, and it is more efficient (in terms of >>>>> what it can do relative to it's size) than a mammlian brain. I've known >>>>> people who treat their turkey like they would their dog. It can follow >>>>> you around the yard and seems to want attention just like any other pet. >>>>> We have likely selected them to be less mentally atuned than their
wild counterparts just like we selected dogs to have around 30% smaller >>>>> brains by body weight than wolves. Dogs were the major protein source >>>>> before turkeys were domesticated for Mexico and South America.
Basically you need a food animal to stick around long enough to be eaten. >>>>>
Ron Okimoto

I have read that domestic turkeys are dumber than rocks, but wild
turkeys are quite alert. OTOH I also read that wild toms can be
territorial and aggressive even with their owners, attacking the back
of a person's neck.

Domestic turkeys have been bred so that a lot of the instinctive
behaviors have been lost, just like domestic dogs, but my guess is that
they might still be smarter in terms of observation, movement within and >>> analysis of their environment than dogs. As I noted, I've known people
that treat their turkey like they would a dog. They just have lost
instinctive reactions to the environment. The turkeys seem to want the
company. They no longer react to environmental stimuli in the same way
that wild turkeys do, and lack the knee jerk reactions. My guess is
that we have never evaluated just how intelligent turkeys and chickens
are because we eat them. There was that article that I put up several
years ago where they determined that baby chicks might be self aware,
something that dogs and cats may lack. They noted that if they had a
chick isolated even in the presence of mirrors that it would give the
gathering call to be with other chicks, but if instead of a mirror they
had a window where they could see another chick that they would not give >>> the gathering call. They seemed to know the difference between their
reflection and another bird.

I raised turkeys a couple times, and I testify that they are really,
really dumb. Even dumber than the chickens. They have barely enough
neural activity to maintain consciousness.

Ah. Domestic turkeys, the Dan Quayle of birds.

Dogs are definitely self-aware. A puppy may respond to its reflection,
but they quickly recognize that it's just a reflection. After all,
reflection doesn't have a distinctive odor. They probably are at least
and perhaps more aware than Dan Quayle or a number of other politicians
one could name.

Recall During a March 25, 2010, House Armed Services Committee hearing
about the U.S. military installation in Guam, Johnson said to Admiral
Robert F. Willard, Commander of U.S. Pacific Command, "My fear is that
the whole island will become so overly populated that it will tip over
and capsize", to which Willard replied, "We don't anticipate that." The
next day, Johnson's office said that he was tremendously deadpan and had
used a facetious metaphor to draw attention to the potential negative
impact of adding 8,000 Marines and dependents to an island of 180,000
people. Maybe.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: talk.origins

On Wed, 03 Dec 2025 16:49:08 -0500, WolfFan <akwolffan@zoho.com>
wrote:

On Nov 27, 2025, Rufus wrote
(in article<sl6hik5g17s7tvm3spuagpm1cjsccmr8pg@4ax.com>):

RonO <rokimoto557@gmail.com> wrote:

On 11/27/2025 5:53 AM, jillery wrote:

On Wed, 26 Nov 2025 15:35:43 -0600, RonO<rokimoto557@gmail.com>
wrote:

https://abcnews.go.com/

"Why some people are adopting turkeys instead of eating them" is a
video. It is currently the top of the list, but it goes down as more >> > > > are added.

It gets to some people that turkeys are likely smarter than your dog or
cat. They have a bird's brain, and it is more efficient (in terms of >> > > > what it can do relative to it's size) than a mammlian brain. I've known
people who treat their turkey like they would their dog. It can follow >> > > > you around the yard and seems to want attention just like any other pet.
We have likely selected them to be less mentally atuned than their
wild counterparts just like we selected dogs to have around 30% smaller
brains by body weight than wolves. Dogs were the major protein source >> > > > before turkeys were domesticated for Mexico and South America.
Basically you need a food animal to stick around long enough to be eaten.

Ron Okimoto

I have read that domestic turkeys are dumber than rocks, but wild
turkeys are quite alert. OTOH I also read that wild toms can be
territorial and aggressive even with their owners, attacking the back
of a person's neck.

Domestic turkeys have been bred so that a lot of the instinctive
behaviors have been lost, just like domestic dogs, but my guess is that
they might still be smarter in terms of observation, movement within and >> > analysis of their environment than dogs. As I noted, I've known people
that treat their turkey like they would a dog. They just have lost
instinctive reactions to the environment. The turkeys seem to want the
company. They no longer react to environmental stimuli in the same way
that wild turkeys do, and lack the knee jerk reactions. My guess is
that we have never evaluated just how intelligent turkeys and chickens
are because we eat them. There was that article that I put up several
years ago where they determined that baby chicks might be self aware,
something that dogs and cats may lack. They noted that if they had a
chick isolated even in the presence of mirrors that it would give the
gathering call to be with other chicks, but if instead of a mirror they
had a window where they could see another chick that they would not give >> > the gathering call. They seemed to know the difference between their
reflection and another bird.

I raised turkeys a couple times, and I testify that they are really,
really dumb. Even dumber than the chickens. They have barely enough
neural activity to maintain consciousness.

Ah. Domestic turkeys, the Dan Quayle of birds.

You're dating yourself ;-) Surely you can recall more recent examples
of human turkeys (and I didn't call you Shirley).
--
To know less than we don't know is the nature of most knowledge
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: talk.origins

On Dec 4, 2025, jillery wrote
(in article<l2j2jklp3p0u1fb29ernp1u1bl6i82fidh@4ax.com>):

On Wed, 03 Dec 2025 16:49:08 -0500, WolfFan<akwolffan@zoho.com>
wrote:

On Nov 27, 2025, Rufus wrote
(in article<sl6hik5g17s7tvm3spuagpm1cjsccmr8pg@4ax.com>):

RonO <rokimoto557@gmail.com> wrote:

On 11/27/2025 5:53 AM, jillery wrote:

On Wed, 26 Nov 2025 15:35:43 -0600, RonO<rokimoto557@gmail.com> wrote:

https://abcnews.go.com/

"Why some people are adopting turkeys instead of eating them" is a video. It is currently the top of the list, but it goes down as more
are added.

It gets to some people that turkeys are likely smarter than your dog or
cat. They have a bird's brain, and it is more efficient (in terms of
what it can do relative to it's size) than a mammlian brain. I've known
people who treat their turkey like they would their dog. It can follow
you around the yard and seems to want attention just like any other pet.
We have likely selected them to be less mentally atuned than their wild counterparts just like we selected dogs to have around 30% smaller
brains by body weight than wolves. Dogs were the major protein source
before turkeys were domesticated for Mexico and South America. Basically you need a food animal to stick around long enough to be eaten.

Ron Okimoto

I have read that domestic turkeys are dumber than rocks, but wild turkeys are quite alert. OTOH I also read that wild toms can be territorial and aggressive even with their owners, attacking the back of a person's neck.

Domestic turkeys have been bred so that a lot of the instinctive behaviors have been lost, just like domestic dogs, but my guess is that they might still be smarter in terms of observation, movement within and
analysis of their environment than dogs. As I noted, I've known people that treat their turkey like they would a dog. They just have lost instinctive reactions to the environment. The turkeys seem to want the company. They no longer react to environmental stimuli in the same way that wild turkeys do, and lack the knee jerk reactions. My guess is that we have never evaluated just how intelligent turkeys and chickens are because we eat them. There was that article that I put up several years ago where they determined that baby chicks might be self aware, something that dogs and cats may lack. They noted that if they had a chick isolated even in the presence of mirrors that it would give the gathering call to be with other chicks, but if instead of a mirror they had a window where they could see another chick that they would not give
the gathering call. They seemed to know the difference between their reflection and another bird.

I raised turkeys a couple times, and I testify that they are really, really dumb. Even dumber than the chickens. They have barely enough neural activity to maintain consciousness.

Ah. Domestic turkeys, the Dan Quayle of birds.

You're dating yourself ;-) Surely you can recall more recent examples
of human turkeys (and I didn't call you Shirley).

Danforth Quayle was so... Special.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2