• Re: The Ever Expanding Universe

    From Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn@PointedEars@web.de to sci.physics,sci.physics.relativity on Wed Dec 24 00:42:51 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.physics.relativity

    Ruben Safir wrote:
    One of the concepts that have bothered me the most is the idea that the universe is ever exapanding.

    [_expanding_]

    We do not know that. We know that our universe is expanding now and has
    been in the past (because we observe the cosmological redshift); but it is uncertain for how long, if at all, this will continue. The reason for that
    is that recent observations indicate that the Dark Energy density could be time-dependent (in the current Standard Model of cosmology, it is constant, leading to an exponential expansion). If it decreases, then gravitation
    might be able to slow down the expansion after all, and even reverse it, leading to a Big Crunch:

    <https://www.quantamagazine.org/is-dark-energy-getting-weaker-new-evidence-strengthens-the-case-20250319/>

    If space is constantly exanding and we are in space, then our measuring sticks would also be expanding so we wouldn't be able to see it and
    there would be no doppler effect.

    No. First of all, you need to realize how large our universe is and how
    small everything in it is by comparison. This is best illustrated with numbers:

    Terra (Earth) is a planet with a diameter of ca. 12'642 km (if you think
    that is big, read on). Sol (the Sun) is a star with a diameter of ca. 1'400'000 (1.4 million) km. The average distance of Terra to Sol is approximately 150'000'000 (150 million) km. The distance to the next star
    from Sol, Proxima Centauri, is ca. 4.25 ly (light-years); that is, ca. 4.25 times the distance that light travels in vacuum in one Julian year: ca. 40 *trillion* (short scale) kilometers. Both those stars are two of
    approximately 200 billion stars in the Milky Way (each which on average at least one planet) which has a diameter of approximately 200'000 ly. The
    Milky Way is one of ca. 200 billion to 2 trillion galaxies in our observable universe which has a diameter of ca. 96 billion light-years. Our entire universe has a diameter that is at least 500 times as large as the
    observable one's.

    In the words of Douglas Adams, written in or before 1978 already:

    "Space [says the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy] is big. You just won't
    believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may
    think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just
    peanuts to space."

    The expansion of the space of our universe is a metric expansion -- all
    length scales are growing --, so the rate at which distances change itself depends on distance. Given the size of our universe (or even only the observable one), the rate at which distances change on everyday scales is (currently) so small that any short-range forces/interactions compensate for the expansion immediately. In fact, within the Local Group (of galaxies) to
    of which the Milky Way is one major component, gravitation dominates over
    the expansion; the Andromeda Galaxy, the other major component of the Group, and the Milky Way are *approaching* each other (and might merge in several billion years from now) due to gravitation.

    To get an idea how small the rate is at which space is expanding at everyday scales, multiply a distance by the Hubble constant, the current value of the Hubble parameter. Measurements of that vary, but so far the concordance
    value is ca. (70 km/s)/Mpc. 1 pc (parsec) is the distance an object needs
    to have from Sol so that its annual parallax, half the angle under which it
    is observed from opposite sides of the orbit of Terra, is 1" (arcsecond, seconds of arc); that is, ca. 3.26 ly.

    Second, the cosmological redshift is NOT a Doppler redshift. The galaxies
    are not really moving (by comparison) in their local space, but space is expanding and is carrying them away from each other. The cosmological
    redshift arises because the light was emitted in a different reference/rest frame than it is received: the length scales were smaller then than they are now, including the wavelengths of light.

    Since the expansion is predicted and described by general relativity, it is better to continue discussing this in sci.physics.relativity. X-Post &
    F'up2 set.
    --
    PointedEars

    Twitter: @PointedEars2
    Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.
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  • From Ross Finlayson@ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com to sci.physics.relativity on Tue Dec 23 20:19:50 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.physics.relativity

    On 12/23/2025 03:42 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
    Ruben Safir wrote:
    One of the concepts that have bothered me the most is the idea that the
    universe is ever exapanding.

    [_expanding_]

    We do not know that. We know that our universe is expanding now and has
    been in the past (because we observe the cosmological redshift); but it is uncertain for how long, if at all, this will continue. The reason for that is that recent observations indicate that the Dark Energy density could be time-dependent (in the current Standard Model of cosmology, it is constant, leading to an exponential expansion). If it decreases, then gravitation might be able to slow down the expansion after all, and even reverse it, leading to a Big Crunch:

    <https://www.quantamagazine.org/is-dark-energy-getting-weaker-new-evidence-strengthens-the-case-20250319/>

    If space is constantly exanding and we are in space, then our measuring
    sticks would also be expanding so we wouldn't be able to see it and
    there would be no doppler effect.

    No. First of all, you need to realize how large our universe is and how small everything in it is by comparison. This is best illustrated with numbers:

    Terra (Earth) is a planet with a diameter of ca. 12'642 km (if you think
    that is big, read on). Sol (the Sun) is a star with a diameter of ca. 1'400'000 (1.4 million) km. The average distance of Terra to Sol is approximately 150'000'000 (150 million) km. The distance to the next star from Sol, Proxima Centauri, is ca. 4.25 ly (light-years); that is, ca. 4.25 times the distance that light travels in vacuum in one Julian year: ca. 40 *trillion* (short scale) kilometers. Both those stars are two of approximately 200 billion stars in the Milky Way (each which on average at least one planet) which has a diameter of approximately 200'000 ly. The Milky Way is one of ca. 200 billion to 2 trillion galaxies in our observable universe which has a diameter of ca. 96 billion light-years. Our entire universe has a diameter that is at least 500 times as large as the
    observable one's.

    In the words of Douglas Adams, written in or before 1978 already:

    "Space [says the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy] is big. You just won't
    believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may
    think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just
    peanuts to space."

    The expansion of the space of our universe is a metric expansion -- all length scales are growing --, so the rate at which distances change itself depends on distance. Given the size of our universe (or even only the observable one), the rate at which distances change on everyday scales is (currently) so small that any short-range forces/interactions compensate for the expansion immediately. In fact, within the Local Group (of galaxies) to of which the Milky Way is one major component, gravitation dominates over
    the expansion; the Andromeda Galaxy, the other major component of the Group, and the Milky Way are *approaching* each other (and might merge in several billion years from now) due to gravitation.

    To get an idea how small the rate is at which space is expanding at everyday scales, multiply a distance by the Hubble constant, the current value of the Hubble parameter. Measurements of that vary, but so far the concordance value is ca. (70 km/s)/Mpc. 1 pc (parsec) is the distance an object needs
    to have from Sol so that its annual parallax, half the angle under which it is observed from opposite sides of the orbit of Terra, is 1" (arcsecond, seconds of arc); that is, ca. 3.26 ly.

    Second, the cosmological redshift is NOT a Doppler redshift. The galaxies are not really moving (by comparison) in their local space, but space is expanding and is carrying them away from each other. The cosmological redshift arises because the light was emitted in a different reference/rest frame than it is received: the length scales were smaller then than they are now, including the wavelengths of light.

    Since the expansion is predicted and described by general relativity, it is better to continue discussing this in sci.physics.relativity. X-Post &
    F'up2 set.


    If you haven't heard of "redshift bias" or "redshift distortion"
    it sort of has that since WMAP found no background anisotropy
    and thusly that space-time is more-or-less flat, this has that
    light's speed as a constant has that as it enters rotating frames
    either it was "tired" or it goes "around" on the way in, while
    the actual velocity of light is a constant according to some aspects
    of being according to aether drift.

    So, ever since Finlay-Freundlich there were ideas like "tired light",
    yet, instead the idea may be that it's "fresh light", gets involved
    since otherwise "Dark Energy" has falsified standard cosmology with
    its usual accoutrement of general and restricted relativity.

    Anyways, if you look to "redshift bias" and "redshift distortion",
    you can find there are various interpretations that do away with it.


    Is physics all broken and is there a crisis in physics and
    is the Hubble tension a bit too much? Yes, it is.


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  • From athel.cb@gmail.com@user12588@newsgrouper.org.invalid to sci.physics.relativity on Wed Dec 24 10:49:47 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.physics.relativity


    Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> posted:

    On 12/23/2025 03:42 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
    Ruben Safir wrote:
    One of the concepts that have bothered me the most is the idea that the
    universe is ever exapanding.

    [_expanding_]

    We do not know that. We know that our universe is expanding now and has been in the past (because we observe the cosmological redshift); but it is uncertain for how long, if at all, this will continue. The reason for that is that recent observations indicate that the Dark Energy density could be time-dependent (in the current Standard Model of cosmology, it is constant, leading to an exponential expansion). If it decreases, then gravitation might be able to slow down the expansion after all, and even reverse it, leading to a Big Crunch:

    <https://www.quantamagazine.org/is-dark-energy-getting-weaker-new-evidence-strengthens-the-case-20250319/>

    If space is constantly exanding and we are in space, then our measuring
    sticks would also be expanding so we wouldn't be able to see it and
    there would be no doppler effect.

    No. First of all, you need to realize how large our universe is and how small everything in it is by comparison.

    No, not if we make a meaningful comparison in terms of mass or numbers of atoms.
    OK, the volume of the universe is large, but it makes little sense to ignore the
    fact that it is overwhelmingly empty. In terms of mass it is only about 10^27 times
    larger than the Earth, whereas the Earth is 10^40 times larger than an E. coli cell. In other words the Earth is _much_ larger on the scale of a bacterial cell than the universe is on the scale of the Earth.

    This is best illustrated with numbers:

    Terra (Earth) is a planet with a diameter of ca. 12'642 km (if you think that is big, read on). Sol (the Sun) is a star with a diameter of ca. 1'400'000 (1.4 million) km. The average distance of Terra to Sol is approximately 150'000'000 (150 million) km. The distance to the next star from Sol, Proxima Centauri, is ca. 4.25 ly (light-years); that is, ca. 4.25 times the distance that light travels in vacuum in one Julian year: ca. 40 *trillion* (short scale) kilometers. Both those stars are two of approximately 200 billion stars in the Milky Way (each which on average at least one planet) which has a diameter of approximately 200'000 ly. The Milky Way is one of ca. 200 billion to 2 trillion galaxies in our observable
    universe which has a diameter of ca. 96 billion light-years. Our entire universe has a diameter that is at least 500 times as large as the observable one's.
    --
    athel
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Ross Finlayson@ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com to sci.physics.relativity on Sat Dec 27 08:42:17 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.physics.relativity

    On 12/24/2025 02:49 AM, athel.cb@gmail.com wrote:

    Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> posted:

    On 12/23/2025 03:42 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
    Ruben Safir wrote:
    One of the concepts that have bothered me the most is the idea that the >>>> universe is ever exapanding.

    [_expanding_]

    We do not know that. We know that our universe is expanding now and has >>> been in the past (because we observe the cosmological redshift); but it is >>> uncertain for how long, if at all, this will continue. The reason for that >>> is that recent observations indicate that the Dark Energy density could be >>> time-dependent (in the current Standard Model of cosmology, it is constant, >>> leading to an exponential expansion). If it decreases, then gravitation >>> might be able to slow down the expansion after all, and even reverse it, >>> leading to a Big Crunch:

    <https://www.quantamagazine.org/is-dark-energy-getting-weaker-new-evidence-strengthens-the-case-20250319/>

    If space is constantly exanding and we are in space, then our measuring >>>> sticks would also be expanding so we wouldn't be able to see it and
    there would be no doppler effect.

    No. First of all, you need to realize how large our universe is and how >>> small everything in it is by comparison.

    No, not if we make a meaningful comparison in terms of mass or numbers of atoms.
    OK, the volume of the universe is large, but it makes little sense to ignore the
    fact that it is overwhelmingly empty. In terms of mass it is only about 10^27 times
    larger than the Earth, whereas the Earth is 10^40 times larger than an E. coli
    cell. In other words the Earth is _much_ larger on the scale of a bacterial cell than the universe is on the scale of the Earth.

    This is best illustrated with numbers:

    Terra (Earth) is a planet with a diameter of ca. 12'642 km (if you think >>> that is big, read on). Sol (the Sun) is a star with a diameter of ca.
    1'400'000 (1.4 million) km. The average distance of Terra to Sol is
    approximately 150'000'000 (150 million) km. The distance to the next star >>> from Sol, Proxima Centauri, is ca. 4.25 ly (light-years); that is, ca. 4.25 >>> times the distance that light travels in vacuum in one Julian year: ca. 40 >>> *trillion* (short scale) kilometers. Both those stars are two of
    approximately 200 billion stars in the Milky Way (each which on average at >>> least one planet) which has a diameter of approximately 200'000 ly. The >>> Milky Way is one of ca. 200 billion to 2 trillion galaxies in our observable
    universe which has a diameter of ca. 96 billion light-years. Our entire >>> universe has a diameter that is at least 500 times as large as the
    observable one's.

    I don't see much point in quoting me saying nothing.


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  • From The Starmaker@starmaker@ix.netcom.com to sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics,sci.math on Sat Dec 27 22:50:14 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.physics.relativity

    Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:

    Ruben Safir wrote:
    One of the concepts that have bothered me the most is the idea that the universe is ever exapanding.

    [_expanding_]

    We do not know that. We know that our universe is expanding now and has

    "We"???? you mean me, myself and I?


    I'm flabgastted that people till this day are testing Positive for
    Stupid in these sci newsgroups.

    The UNIVERSE IS *NOT* EXPANDING! It *never* has expanded. It remains the
    same size it always has been since it existence.


    The Big Bang was the 'expansion' of ...space, not the expansion of the universe.


    Space is expanding, not the universe.


    Imagine an office building...
    with a trillion feet of space for office space,
    but contains only one office with 500 square feet.

    You need to expand your office because your
    busines is growing..so you tear the wall down and
    add another 500 square feet of office..your're expanding!

    The office building remains the same size.

    You just got more space for your business...
    eventually you take the whole floor and expand to another floor.

    In other words, In the beginning, space was created to add heavens and
    the earth.


    In the beginning, ...

    In the...

    In

    "In" is the operative word.


    meaning inside, within, or at a specific place, time, state, or manner, indicating containment, location, duration, or a change of condition
    (e.g., in the box, in summer, in love, in half).



    https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&biw=&bih=&q=define+In


    Your office space is contained IN a building.


    The Big Bang was the 'expansion' of ...more office space.



    What's inside the office space? People?


    It's a big office building!


    I mean...
    BIG!

    but plenty of ...space.


    for a blue dot.



    Next time someone sez the universe is expanding, give them a Stupid
    cigar.

    and to all the "WE" also.
    --
    The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
    to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable,
    and challenge the unchallengeable.
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  • From squalk@sq@net.inv to sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics,sci.math on Sun Dec 28 17:47:32 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.physics.relativity

    The Starmaker wrote:
    Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:

    Ruben Safir wrote:
    One of the concepts that have bothered me the most is the idea that the
    universe is ever exapanding.

    [_expanding_]

    We do not know that. We know that our universe is expanding now and has

    "We"???? you mean me, myself and I?


    I'm flabgastted that people till this day are testing Positive for
    Stupid in these sci newsgroups.

    The UNIVERSE IS *NOT* EXPANDING! It *never* has expanded. It remains the
    same size it always has been since it existence.


    The Big Bang was the 'expansion' of ...space, not the expansion of the universe.


    Space is expanding, not the universe.

    --------------------------------------------

    Space is space, it dosen't expand.




    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Ross Finlayson@ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com to sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics,sci.math on Sun Dec 28 09:54:22 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.physics.relativity

    On 12/28/2025 09:47 AM, squalk wrote:
    The Starmaker wrote:
    Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:

    Ruben Safir wrote:
    One of the concepts that have bothered me the most is the idea that the >>>> universe is ever exapanding.

    [_expanding_]

    We do not know that. We know that our universe is expanding now and has

    "We"???? you mean me, myself and I?


    I'm flabgastted that people till this day are testing Positive for
    Stupid in these sci newsgroups.

    The UNIVERSE IS *NOT* EXPANDING! It *never* has expanded. It remains the
    same size it always has been since it existence.


    The Big Bang was the 'expansion' of ...space, not the expansion of the
    universe.


    Space is expanding, not the universe.

    --------------------------------------------

    Space is space, it dosen't expand.





    The "space-frames" and "frame-spaces" represent the concepts
    of objects or substances (eg, the point-particles the aggregates
    or the waves the bulk) their locales, then that motion itself is
    a sort of omni-present contraction and relaxation, of the relative
    in the absolute.

    If you believe science its data, and thusly, you know,
    _all the data_, the universe's age grows millions and
    millions of years every few years, about things like
    "running constants" where also particles get smaller
    every few years, between the sky survey and the CODATA.
    Then about explaining why "Dark Energy" has for the
    after the inflationary cosmology the expanding universe,
    the terms have evolved from things like "tired light"
    to "redshift distortion", about what true matters of
    the optical must make for super-classical models of
    the motion, as it may be, of light.


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  • From Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn@PointedEars@web.de to sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics,sci.math on Sun Dec 28 19:51:39 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.physics.relativity

    squalk wrote:
    The Starmaker wrote:
    Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
    Ruben Safir wrote:
    One of the concepts that have bothered me the most is the idea that the >>>> universe is ever exapanding.

    [_expanding_]

    We do not know that. We know that our universe is expanding now and has

    "We"???? you mean me, myself and I?

    Astrophysicist/cosmologists. The scientific community.

    I'm flabgastted that people till this day are testing Positive for
    Stupid in these sci newsgroups.

    The UNIVERSE IS *NOT* EXPANDING! It *never* has expanded. It remains the
    same size it always has been since it existence.

    Observationally falsified.

    The Big Bang was the 'expansion' of ...space, not the expansion of the
    universe.

    The Big Bang _is_ the expansion of the space of our universe. AFAWCS it is ongoing.

    Space is expanding, not the universe.

    Our universe is to good approximation well described by spacetime,
    particularly the FLRW metric

    ds^2 = -dt^2 + a(t)^2 [1/(1 - k r^2) dr^2 + r^2 (d Omega)^2],
    (d Omega)^2 = (d theta)^2 + sin^2(theta) (d phi)^2,

    where a(t) is the scale factor at the cosmological time t -- which is
    currently increasing --, and r, theta and phi are spatial (spherical) coordinates. So our universe and space are inseparable concepts: When we
    say "space" in cosmology, we mean the space *of our universe* (at least the observable one).

    [Notice that this is different from colloquial use where "space" often
    is a shorthand for "outer space", i. e. the space of our universe outside
    Terra's atmosphere.]

    Space is space, it dosen't expand.

    Wrong, too. We can *observe* the expansion and evolution of our universe because we can observe galaxies as they were in the past: The light that
    they emitted takes time to get to us. The farther an object is away, the earlier the light was emitted that reaches us now:

    <https://youtu.be/Fqfap3v0xxw?t=791&si=ro2EG6Cx9Sqg05hr>
    --
    PointedEars

    Twitter: @PointedEars2
    Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.

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  • From The Starmaker@starmaker@ix.netcom.com to sci.physics.relativity,sci.physics,sci.math on Sun Dec 28 11:39:49 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.physics.relativity

    Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:

    squalk wrote:
    The Starmaker wrote:
    Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
    Ruben Safir wrote:
    One of the concepts that have bothered me the most is the idea that the >>>> universe is ever exapanding.

    [_expanding_]

    We do not know that. We know that our universe is expanding now and has >>
    "We"???? you mean me, myself and I?

    Astrophysicist/cosmologists. The scientific community.

    I'm flabgastted that people till this day are testing Positive for
    Stupid in these sci newsgroups.

    The UNIVERSE IS *NOT* EXPANDING! It *never* has expanded. It remains the >> same size it always has been since it existence.

    Observationally falsified.

    The Big Bang was the 'expansion' of ...space, not the expansion of the
    universe.

    The Big Bang _is_ the expansion of the space of our universe. AFAWCS it is ongoing.


    "the expansion of the space of our universe. "??? does that even mean anything??


    Let me put it this way...

    you only occupy 5% of the office building.


    95% of space contains nothing, you occupy just 5%.


    There is no universe..
    it's just a few grains of sand.


    In the beginning, ...

    beginning means Time, ..spacetime

    in the spacetime.

    IN.

    primarily indicating a state of being inside/within something (a place,
    time, condition)


    beginning


    the point in time or space at which something starts.


    IN time
    IN space
    IN spacetime.
    --
    The Starmaker -- To question the unquestionable, ask the unaskable,
    to think the unthinkable, mention the unmentionable, say the unsayable,
    and challenge the unchallengeable.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From =?UTF-8?Q?Maciej_Wo=C5=BAniak?=@mlwozniak@wp.pl to sci.physics.relativity on Mon Dec 29 07:03:40 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.physics.relativity

    On 12/28/2025 7:51 PM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
    squalk wrote:
    The Starmaker wrote:
    Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
    Ruben Safir wrote:
    One of the concepts that have bothered me the most is the idea that the >>>>> universe is ever exapanding.

    [_expanding_]

    We do not know that. We know that our universe is expanding now and has >>>
    "We"???? you mean me, myself and I?

    Astrophysicist/cosmologists. The scientific community.

    I'm flabgastted that people till this day are testing Positive for
    Stupid in these sci newsgroups.

    The UNIVERSE IS *NOT* EXPANDING! It *never* has expanded. It remains the >>> same size it always has been since it existence.

    Observationally falsified.

    Only such an idiot can believe such an
    primitive lie.

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Ross Finlayson@ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com to sci.physics.relativity on Mon Dec 29 11:44:06 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.physics.relativity

    On 12/28/2025 10:51 AM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
    squalk wrote:
    The Starmaker wrote:
    Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
    Ruben Safir wrote:
    One of the concepts that have bothered me the most is the idea that the >>>>> universe is ever exapanding.

    [_expanding_]

    We do not know that. We know that our universe is expanding now and has >>>
    "We"???? you mean me, myself and I?

    Astrophysicist/cosmologists. The scientific community.

    I'm flabgastted that people till this day are testing Positive for
    Stupid in these sci newsgroups.

    The UNIVERSE IS *NOT* EXPANDING! It *never* has expanded. It remains the >>> same size it always has been since it existence.

    Observationally falsified.

    The Big Bang was the 'expansion' of ...space, not the expansion of the
    universe.

    The Big Bang _is_ the expansion of the space of our universe. AFAWCS it is ongoing.

    Space is expanding, not the universe.

    Our universe is to good approximation well described by spacetime, particularly the FLRW metric

    ds^2 = -dt^2 + a(t)^2 [1/(1 - k r^2) dr^2 + r^2 (d Omega)^2],
    (d Omega)^2 = (d theta)^2 + sin^2(theta) (d phi)^2,

    where a(t) is the scale factor at the cosmological time t -- which is currently increasing --, and r, theta and phi are spatial (spherical) coordinates. So our universe and space are inseparable concepts: When we
    say "space" in cosmology, we mean the space *of our universe* (at least the observable one).

    [Notice that this is different from colloquial use where "space" often
    is a shorthand for "outer space", i. e. the space of our universe outside
    Terra's atmosphere.]

    Space is space, it dosen't expand.

    Wrong, too. We can *observe* the expansion and evolution of our universe because we can observe galaxies as they were in the past: The light that
    they emitted takes time to get to us. The farther an object is away, the earlier the light was emitted that reaches us now:

    <https://youtu.be/Fqfap3v0xxw?t=791&si=ro2EG6Cx9Sqg05hr>


    Well you know the reason it's said "Dark Energy" is everywhere
    is since there are conflicting observations in theory between
    the usual idea after the inflationary epoch of expansionary cosmology
    and the energy budget.

    So, when you say "observationally falsified", well, you know,
    yes and no. One fragment of a deciding theory is falsified,
    well and good, yet then the wider fragment falsifies that,
    then, ideas about the energy budget have been around pretty
    much since the age of Hubble and Le Maitre.


    Of course neither of "Big Bang" nor "Steady State" are
    falsifiable, and both somehow fit the data.

    Yet, "Dark Energy" has falsified the usual account of
    either, about the energy budget.


    One hopes the Nancy Grace Roman space telescope makes
    it on station next year or so, the wide-field array will
    be making quite a different perspective on things.


    Yet, even a few hermits on a hill can notice physics' crises.


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  • From Ross Finlayson@ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com to sci.physics.relativity on Mon Dec 29 11:57:25 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.physics.relativity

    On 12/29/2025 11:44 AM, Ross Finlayson wrote:
    On 12/28/2025 10:51 AM, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
    squalk wrote:
    The Starmaker wrote:
    Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
    Ruben Safir wrote:
    One of the concepts that have bothered me the most is the idea
    that the
    universe is ever exapanding.

    [_expanding_]

    We do not know that. We know that our universe is expanding now
    and has

    "We"???? you mean me, myself and I?

    Astrophysicist/cosmologists. The scientific community.

    I'm flabgastted that people till this day are testing Positive for
    Stupid in these sci newsgroups.

    The UNIVERSE IS *NOT* EXPANDING! It *never* has expanded. It remains
    the
    same size it always has been since it existence.

    Observationally falsified.

    The Big Bang was the 'expansion' of ...space, not the expansion of the >>>> universe.

    The Big Bang _is_ the expansion of the space of our universe. AFAWCS
    it is
    ongoing.

    Space is expanding, not the universe.

    Our universe is to good approximation well described by spacetime,
    particularly the FLRW metric

    ds^2 = -dt^2 + a(t)^2 [1/(1 - k r^2) dr^2 + r^2 (d Omega)^2],
    (d Omega)^2 = (d theta)^2 + sin^2(theta) (d phi)^2,

    where a(t) is the scale factor at the cosmological time t -- which is
    currently increasing --, and r, theta and phi are spatial (spherical)
    coordinates. So our universe and space are inseparable concepts: When we
    say "space" in cosmology, we mean the space *of our universe* (at
    least the
    observable one).

    [Notice that this is different from colloquial use where "space" often
    is a shorthand for "outer space", i. e. the space of our universe
    outside
    Terra's atmosphere.]

    Space is space, it dosen't expand.

    Wrong, too. We can *observe* the expansion and evolution of our universe
    because we can observe galaxies as they were in the past: The light that
    they emitted takes time to get to us. The farther an object is away, the
    earlier the light was emitted that reaches us now:

    <https://youtu.be/Fqfap3v0xxw?t=791&si=ro2EG6Cx9Sqg05hr>


    Well you know the reason it's said "Dark Energy" is everywhere
    is since there are conflicting observations in theory between
    the usual idea after the inflationary epoch of expansionary cosmology
    and the energy budget.

    So, when you say "observationally falsified", well, you know,
    yes and no. One fragment of a deciding theory is falsified,
    well and good, yet then the wider fragment falsifies that,
    then, ideas about the energy budget have been around pretty
    much since the age of Hubble and Le Maitre.


    Of course neither of "Big Bang" nor "Steady State" are
    falsifiable, and both somehow fit the data.

    Yet, "Dark Energy" has falsified the usual account of
    either, about the energy budget.


    One hopes the Nancy Grace Roman space telescope makes
    it on station next year or so, the wide-field array will
    be making quite a different perspective on things.


    Yet, even a few hermits on a hill can notice physics' crises.



    Then, for profferring an explanatory theory,
    one may note the usual mathematical formalisms
    have that a singularity in a singularity theory
    is merely a branch in a multiplicity theory,
    then about that optical light is special,
    and some may aver that it's not electromagnetic,
    there's for some usual inversion and convolution
    in coordinate settings, for light's free travel,
    and then relating that light in the geodesy (or,
    about the orbifold as it is) makes for exploring
    the tidal/vorticial since since any model of waves
    involves a spiral effect, like the Faraday effect
    then as for a greater account of Fresnel, so that
    for wave-spirals and spiral-waves in the frame-spaces
    and space-frames, there's first the kinetic and kinematic
    the space-contraction-linear and space-contraction-rotational,
    then that light its arrival is atop that,
    making for so that the quite various F-Lorentzians
    (fields, forces, names that begin with F like FitzGerald,
    Fresnel, Faraday, Fatio, Finlay-Freundlich, Fizeau, and
    so on) for E-energy (energy, entelechy, entropy both
    the Aristotlean and Leibnitzian account of entropy,
    and Einsteinian and Machian both aspects of the Lagrangian),
    how it results thusly that the mathematical formalisms
    after invariance and symmetry make for Lorentzians so get
    all satisfied, about the continuity law, that'll about do.


    Nice little recap.


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