From Newsgroup: sci.lang

On 2025-05-20 21:14:57 +0000, Grimble Crumble said:

Stefan Ram <ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote:

ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) wrote or quoted:

Other languages kept the whole formal/informal thing

So, I've noticed that calling someone "Sir" in English kind of
lines up with how we use the more formal "Sie" in German, where
there's a bit of distance. On the other hand, if you use "dude",
it feels a lot more familiar, like the German "Du".

But it also depends on where you are. Like, if a woman in
the audience asks a question during a talk, a speaker in
the South might call her "Ma'am!" to bring her into the
conversation. If you tried that in England, though, you
might get, "Please don't call me 'Ma'am'!"

Well thanks for the explanation

Be careful, though, with what Stefan says: he invents a lot of stuff.
The last sentence strikes me as nonsensical speculation. I'd be
exceedingly surprised if he's ever heard anyone in England say "Please
don't call me 'Ma'am'". I certainly haven't, in 82 years.
--
Athel cb

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From Newsgroup: sci.lang

Op 21/05/2025 om 1:11 schreef Christian Weisgerber:

On 2025-05-20, Grimble Crumble <grimblecrumble870@gmail.com> wrote:

In EmE, there were 2 distinct pronouns that translate to "you" in Modern
English: thou, used in the singular; and ye, used in the plural/formal
singular. This is a common distinction in other languages (Spanish, German, >> French, etc.), so how come "thou" was lost?

Inflation. A common driver of language change, too. The plural
was used as a form of respect when addressing superiors, cf. French
"vous". In fact, the usage may have been copied from French.
[...]

I'm pretty sure it has, in an epoch when French lifestyle and language
were imitated everywhere.The same happened in Dutch: "du" was replaced
by plural "ghi". In Flanders this became "gij", which served all uses of
Fr. "tu" and "vous", including Biblical "thou". In Holland "gij" got
stuck to Biblical use, and for the rest evolved to "jij" with its own conjugation, for singular "tu". Now there was a need for a plural, which became "jullie" (< jij lieden, you folks). And for a polite form, which
became "u" (< Uwe < Uw|- < U.E.= Uw Edelheid, your nobility).
Since 'standardisation' of the language was teached in Flanders, we're
now in a real messing up stage of use, of gij-u(w) with jij-je forms, of
gij-u with jullie-je (and zich, 3d p.!) forms, etc.
--
guido wugi
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From Newsgroup: sci.lang

guido wugi <wugi@brol.invalid> wrote:

Op 21/05/2025 om 1:11 schreef Christian Weisgerber:

On 2025-05-20, Grimble Crumble <grimblecrumble870@gmail.com> wrote:

In EmE, there were 2 distinct pronouns that translate to "you" in Modern >>> English: thou, used in the singular; and ye, used in the plural/formal
singular. This is a common distinction in other languages (Spanish, German, >>> French, etc.), so how come "thou" was lost?

Inflation. A common driver of language change, too. The plural
was used as a form of respect when addressing superiors, cf. French
"vous". In fact, the usage may have been copied from French.
[...]

I'm pretty sure it has, in an epoch when French lifestyle and language
were imitated everywhere.The same happened in Dutch: "du" was replaced
by plural "ghi". In Flanders this became "gij", which served all uses of
Fr. "tu" and "vous", including Biblical "thou". In Holland "gij" got
stuck to Biblical use, and for the rest evolved to "jij" with its own conjugation, for singular "tu". Now there was a need for a plural, which became "jullie" (< jij lieden, you folks). And for a polite form, which became "u" (< Uwe < Uw|- < U.E.= Uw Edelheid, your nobility).
Since 'standardisation' of the language was teached in Flanders, we're
now in a real messing up stage of use, of gij-u(w) with jij-je forms, of gij-u with jullie-je (and zich, 3d p.!) forms, etc.

The French sure seem to bring chaos everywhere they touch. It's crazy
looking back even at the sheer amount of influence they had
internationally.
--
Ouvre le chien
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