• Hoofed - but was it Kosher?

    From Popping Mad@rainbow@colition.gov to sci.bio.paleontology on Mon Nov 17 06:25:49 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.bio.paleontology

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2OYcptFl9c

    Paul Serrano's discovery
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  • From John Harshman@john.harshman@gmail.com to sci.bio.paleontology on Mon Nov 17 12:28:25 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.bio.paleontology

    On 11/17/25 3:25 AM, Popping Mad wrote:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2OYcptFl9c

    Paul Serrano's discovery

    Sereno.
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  • From erik simpson@eastside.erik@gmail.com to sci.bio.paleontology on Mon Nov 17 13:18:41 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.bio.paleontology

    On 11/17/25 3:25 AM, Popping Mad wrote:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2OYcptFl9c

    Paul Serrano's discovery
    Does having three toes count for cloven? And cud-chewing, of course.
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  • From Popping Mad@rainbow@colition.gov to sci.bio.paleontology on Mon Nov 17 22:23:49 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.bio.paleontology

    On 11/17/25 4:18 PM, erik simpson wrote:
    On 11/17/25 3:25 AM, Popping Mad wrote:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2OYcptFl9c

    Paul Serrano's discovery
    Does having three toes count for cloven?-a And cud-chewing, of course.


    It had to chew its cud... that seems to be what the gizzard is for.
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  • From John Harshman@john.harshman@gmail.com to sci.bio.paleontology on Mon Nov 17 20:54:10 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.bio.paleontology

    On 11/17/25 7:23 PM, Popping Mad wrote:
    On 11/17/25 4:18 PM, erik simpson wrote:
    On 11/17/25 3:25 AM, Popping Mad wrote:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2OYcptFl9c

    Paul Serrano's discovery
    Does having three toes count for cloven?-a And cud-chewing, of course.


    It had to chew its cud... that seems to be what the gizzard is for.

    Does a chicken chew its cud, then? Anyway, ornithopods would seem to be functionally perissodactyl.
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  • From erik simpson@eastside.erik@gmail.com to sci.bio.paleontology on Tue Nov 18 08:45:08 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.bio.paleontology

    On 11/17/25 8:54 PM, John Harshman wrote:
    On 11/17/25 7:23 PM, Popping Mad wrote:
    On 11/17/25 4:18 PM, erik simpson wrote:
    On 11/17/25 3:25 AM, Popping Mad wrote:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2OYcptFl9c

    Paul Serrano's discovery
    Does having three toes count for cloven?-a And cud-chewing, of course.


    It had to chew its cud... that seems to be what the gizzard is for.

    Does a chicken chew its cud, then? Anyway, ornithopods would seem to be functionally perissodactyl.

    According to Wikipedia, one Barnum Brown discovered gastroliths
    associated with a hadrosaur. That would vote against cud-chewing, at
    least among living animals. Collagen has been detected in hadrosaur
    fossils, so it's unlikely but still possible someone might eat some.
    Aren't reptiles non-kosher anyway?
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  • From Popping Mad@rainbow@colition.gov to sci.bio.paleontology on Wed Nov 19 06:02:16 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.bio.paleontology

    On 11/18/25 11:45 AM, erik simpson wrote:
    ollagen has been detected in hadrosaur fossils, so it's unlikely but
    still possible someone might eat some.
    Aren't reptiles non-kosher anyway?


    Some birds are Kosher.
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  • From Popping Mad@rainbow@colition.gov to sci.bio.paleontology on Wed Nov 19 21:22:08 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.bio.paleontology

    On 11/18/25 11:45 AM, erik simpson wrote:

    According to Wikipedia, one Barnum Brown discovered gastroliths
    associated with a hadrosaur.-a That would vote against cud-chewing, at
    least among living animals.-a Collagen has been detected in hadrosaur fossils, so it's unlikely but still possible someone might eat some.
    Aren't reptiles non-kosher anyway?


    It is really amazing that these things can survive is such states of preservation over 70 million years. It really goes to show you that in
    the corse of evolutionary history, the time since the Chicxulub strike
    has not been that great amount of time. We have found some amazing
    specimens and one thing that keeps repeating itself is that the truth of
    these animals is always more shocking and unexpected then our wildest predictions.
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  • From x@x@x.org to sci.bio.paleontology on Thu Nov 20 10:08:24 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.bio.paleontology

    On 11/19/25 03:02, Popping Mad wrote:
    On 11/18/25 11:45 AM, erik simpson wrote:
    ollagen has been detected in hadrosaur fossils, so it's unlikely but
    still possible someone might eat some.
    Aren't reptiles non-kosher anyway?

    Some birds are Kosher.

    Is the nature of the fossil such that the remains clearly
    show that the animal did NOT have feathers?

    Is it the other way around?



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  • From erik simpson@eastside.erik@gmail.com to sci.bio.paleontology on Thu Nov 20 15:03:29 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.bio.paleontology

    On 11/20/25 10:08 AM, x wrote:
    On 11/19/25 03:02, Popping Mad wrote:
    On 11/18/25 11:45 AM, erik simpson wrote:
    ollagen has been detected in hadrosaur fossils, so it's unlikely but
    still possible someone might eat some.
    Aren't reptiles non-kosher anyway?

    Some birds are Kosher.

    Is the nature of the fossil such that the remains clearly
    show that the animal did NOT have feathers?

    Is it the other way around?



    The fossil evidence so far finds feathers appearing is Coelurosaurid dinosaurs, which are in the broad group of therpods. Hadrosaurs are in
    a different clade, and so far no feathers have been noted. (It may be of passing interest that Oregon State University was long a hotbed of
    acceptance of Alan Feduccia's idea that birds are not descendants of
    dinosaurs at all. They sometimes described themselves and BANDITS
    (birds are not dinosaurs) or MANIAICS (maniraptoransare not in
    acutallity celosaurians). Most of this noise died out areound 2010,
    execept for continued support from creationist sources.)
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  • From John Harshman@john.harshman@gmail.com to sci.bio.paleontology on Thu Nov 20 17:08:19 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.bio.paleontology

    On 11/20/25 3:03 PM, erik simpson wrote:
    On 11/20/25 10:08 AM, x wrote:
    On 11/19/25 03:02, Popping Mad wrote:
    On 11/18/25 11:45 AM, erik simpson wrote:
    ollagen has been detected in hadrosaur fossils, so it's unlikely but
    still possible someone might eat some.
    Aren't reptiles non-kosher anyway?

    Some birds are Kosher.

    Is the nature of the fossil such that the remains clearly
    show that the animal did NOT have feathers?

    Is it the other way around?



    The fossil evidence so far finds feathers appearing is Coelurosaurid dinosaurs, which are in the broad group of therpods.-a Hadrosaurs are in
    a different clade, and so far no feathers have been noted. (It may be of passing interest that Oregon State University was long a hotbed of acceptance of Alan Feduccia's idea that birds are not descendants of dinosaurs at all.-a They sometimes described themselves and BANDITS
    (birds are not dinosaurs) or MANIAICS (maniraptoransare not in
    acutallity celosaurians).-a Most of this noise died out areound 2010, execept for continued support from creationist sources.)

    Note that those are both pejorative terms invented by their opponents
    and not adopted by the loonies themselves, though they did sometimes use
    BAND. They also coined the term BAD for "birds are dinosaurs" or BADD
    for "birds are dinosaur descendants", presumably intended to be
    pejorative in the other direction. I don't think anyone adopted those terms.

    I note that there are psittacosaur fossils with odd fibers on their
    tails, which might conceivably be some kind of feather. And of course
    the hairlike fibers on pterosaurs. So the depth at which something
    homologous to feathers evolved is not entirely clear.
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  • From Popping Mad@rainbow@colition.gov to sci.bio.paleontology on Thu Nov 20 21:46:19 2025
    From Newsgroup: sci.bio.paleontology

    On 11/20/25 6:03 PM, erik simpson wrote:

    The fossil evidence so far finds feathers appearing is Coelurosaurid dinosaurs, which are in the broad group of therpods.-a Hadrosaurs are in
    a different clade, and so far no feathers have been noted. (It may be of passing interest that Oregon State University was long a hotbed of
    acceptance of Alan Feduccia's idea that birds are not descendants of dinosaurs at all.-a They sometimes described themselves and BANDITS
    (birds are not dinosaurs) or MANIAICS (maniraptoransare not in
    acutallity celosaurians).-a Most of this noise died out areound 2010,
    execept for continued support from creationist sources.)


    The Dinosaur mummy at AMNH also had no evidence of feathers which is Edmontosaurus annectens, but it was my understanding that feathers have
    been shown to be very early in the Dinosaur tree, and likely even before Dinosaurs. It is intetesting that here they discuss it and they fail to mention the species

    https://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/permanent/ornithischian-dinosaurs/dinosaur-mummy


    And there is the Corythosaurus which is also under Hadrosauridae. There
    are filiments found on ornithischian's (Psittacocaurus). Covergent
    evolution or do they share their origins with Pterasaurs?


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