From Newsgroup: rec.sport.soccer


So, I wanted to check whether we can infer something about the dearth
of talent in Italian football (soon to miss its third consecutive
World Cup) from UtN data. I came up with the following table on the
number of *actual* goals scored by the representatives of the big UtN
national teams. These are actual goals: they exclude captaincy bonus,
but include the number of goals not counted for UtN purposes because
of UtN constraints (e.g., no more than 5 forwards). I've restricted
the analysis to the big-5 leagues, Portugal, Benelux, and Scandinavia.

----------------------------------------------------------------
| NT
| BEN ENG ESP FRA GER ITA POR SCA Total --------+-------------------------------------------------------
year |
2017 | 5.5 7.3 8.7 3.5 4.8 2.5 5.4
2018 | 5.8 3.5 10 2 5.4
2019 | 10 6.2 6.8 4.8 2 5.2 5.9
2020 | 9 7.2 8.2 6.5 2.5 6.5 7.7 6.8
2021 | 9.2 7.5 7.7 7.8 3 6 9.3 7.2
2022 | 8.8 5.5 5.7 5.5 6.7 12 7.4
2023 | 10 5.7 9.3 8.3 4 4.7 6.2 14 7.8
2024 | 10 6.8 6.3 2.1 12 7.5
Total | 9.1 6 8.1 8.5 5.5 3.3 5.5 11 6.8 ----------------------------------------------------------------

The comparison is not exactly apples to apples, because the number of
teams per NT is not the same, and the quality of opposition is not the
same either (a lot of the Scandinavian goals are in the weaker Europa
League and Conference League). But still...

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From Newsgroup: rec.sport.soccer

On Fri, 28 Nov 2025 17:42:23 -0500, Futbolmetrix
<futbolmetrix@yahoo.com> wrote:

----------------------------------------------------------------
| NT
| BEN ENG ESP FRA GER ITA POR SCA Total
--------+-------------------------------------------------------
year |
2017 | 5.5 7.3 8.7 3.5 4.8 2.5 5.4
2018 | 5.8 3.5 10 2 5.4
2019 | 10 6.2 6.8 4.8 2 5.2 5.9
2020 | 9 7.2 8.2 6.5 2.5 6.5 7.7 6.8
2021 | 9.2 7.5 7.7 7.8 3 6 9.3 7.2
2022 | 8.8 5.5 5.7 5.5 6.7 12 7.4
2023 | 10 5.7 9.3 8.3 4 4.7 6.2 14 7.8
2024 | 10 6.8 6.3 2.1 12 7.5
Total | 9.1 6 8.1 8.5 5.5 3.3 5.5 11 6.8
----------------------------------------------------------------

The comparison is not exactly apples to apples, because the number of
teams per NT is not the same, and the quality of opposition is not the
same either (a lot of the Scandinavian goals are in the weaker Europa
League and Conference League). But still...

Updated table (some of the rounding was off in the previous version):

-------------------------------------------------------------------
| NT
| BEN ENG ESP FRA GER ITA POR SCA Total --------+----------------------------------------------------------
year |
2017 | 5.5 7.3 8.7 3.5 4.8 2.5 5.4
2018 | 5.8 3.5 10.2 2.0 5.4
2019 | 10.2 6.2 6.8 4.8 2.0 5.2 5.9
2020 | 9.0 7.2 8.2 6.5 2.5 6.5 7.7 6.8
2021 | 9.2 7.5 7.7 7.8 3.0 6.0 9.3 7.2
2022 | 8.8 5.5 5.7 5.5 6.7 12.2 7.4
2023 | 10.0 5.7 9.3 8.3 4.0 4.7 6.2 14.0 7.8
2024 | 10.2 6.8 6.2 2.1 12.2 7.5
Total | 9.1 6.0 8.1 8.5 5.5 3.3 5.5 11.2 6.8 -------------------------------------------------------------------

Maybe at some point I'll find the time and interest to fill in the
blanks for ESP, FRA and POR...


And some other NTs (CCAF = CONCACAF, GAE = Gaels, MENA = Peaceniks,
SSA = Sub-Saharan Africa/Wakas, WON = Wonderland)


--------------------------------------------------------------
| NT
| ARG BRA CCAF GAE MENA SSA WON Total --------+-----------------------------------------------------
year |
2017 | 5.2 11.5 8.3
2018 | 7.2 2.2 4.7
2019 | 6.2 4.6 5.5
2020 | 2.8 5.5 2.3 5.2 5.8 4.4
2021 | 7.3 8.3 6.0 7.2
2022 | 2.8 1.2 13.8 4.5 5.6
2023 | 3.7 8.7 14.2 4.0 7.6
2024 | 6.9 3.1 3.9 14.2 3.8 6.4
Total | 5.1 7.0 2.8 2.7 6.9 14.1 4.7 6.2 --------------------------------------------------------------




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From Newsgroup: rec.sport.soccer

On 2025-11-30 07:58, Futbolmetrix wrote:

On Fri, 28 Nov 2025 17:42:23 -0500, Futbolmetrix
<futbolmetrix@yahoo.com> wrote:

----------------------------------------------------------------
| NT
| BEN ENG ESP FRA GER ITA POR SCA Total
--------+-------------------------------------------------------
year |
2017 | 5.5 7.3 8.7 3.5 4.8 2.5 5.4
2018 | 5.8 3.5 10 2 5.4
2019 | 10 6.2 6.8 4.8 2 5.2 5.9
2020 | 9 7.2 8.2 6.5 2.5 6.5 7.7 6.8
2021 | 9.2 7.5 7.7 7.8 3 6 9.3 7.2
2022 | 8.8 5.5 5.7 5.5 6.7 12 7.4
2023 | 10 5.7 9.3 8.3 4 4.7 6.2 14 7.8
2024 | 10 6.8 6.3 2.1 12 7.5
Total | 9.1 6 8.1 8.5 5.5 3.3 5.5 11 6.8
----------------------------------------------------------------

The comparison is not exactly apples to apples, because the number of
teams per NT is not the same, and the quality of opposition is not the
same either (a lot of the Scandinavian goals are in the weaker Europa
League and Conference League). But still...

Updated table (some of the rounding was off in the previous version):

-------------------------------------------------------------------
| NT
| BEN ENG ESP FRA GER ITA POR SCA Total --------+----------------------------------------------------------
year |
2017 | 5.5 7.3 8.7 3.5 4.8 2.5 5.4
2018 | 5.8 3.5 10.2 2.0 5.4
2019 | 10.2 6.2 6.8 4.8 2.0 5.2 5.9
2020 | 9.0 7.2 8.2 6.5 2.5 6.5 7.7 6.8
2021 | 9.2 7.5 7.7 7.8 3.0 6.0 9.3 7.2
2022 | 8.8 5.5 5.7 5.5 6.7 12.2 7.4
2023 | 10.0 5.7 9.3 8.3 4.0 4.7 6.2 14.0 7.8
2024 | 10.2 6.8 6.2 2.1 12.2 7.5
Total | 9.1 6.0 8.1 8.5 5.5 3.3 5.5 11.2 6.8 -------------------------------------------------------------------

Maybe at some point I'll find the time and interest to fill in the
blanks for ESP, FRA and POR...

How much of this do you think is due to the very large number of Spanish
and French players plying their trade in other countries? Dutch and to
a lesser extent Belgian ones too. Whereas there are not quite so many Germans, and even fewer Italians (or so it seems to me) playing outside
of their own leagues.

And some other NTs (CCAF = CONCACAF, GAE = Gaels, MENA = Peaceniks,
SSA = Sub-Saharan Africa/Wakas, WON = Wonderland)

--------------------------------------------------------------
| NT
| ARG BRA CCAF GAE MENA SSA WON Total --------+-----------------------------------------------------
year |
2017 | 5.2 11.5 8.3
2018 | 7.2 2.2 4.7
2019 | 6.2 4.6 5.5
2020 | 2.8 5.5 2.3 5.2 5.8 4.4
2021 | 7.3 8.3 6.0 7.2
2022 | 2.8 1.2 13.8 4.5 5.6
2023 | 3.7 8.7 14.2 4.0 7.6
2024 | 6.9 3.1 3.9 14.2 3.8 6.4
Total | 5.1 7.0 2.8 2.7 6.9 14.1 4.7 6.2 --------------------------------------------------------------

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From Newsgroup: rec.sport.soccer

On Sun, 30 Nov 2025 14:36:35 -0700, MH <MHnospam@ucalgary.ca> wrote:

How much of this do you think is due to the very large number of Spanish
and French players plying their trade in other countries? Dutch and to
a lesser extent Belgian ones too. Whereas there are not quite so many >Germans, and even fewer Italians (or so it seems to me) playing outside
of their own leagues.

Mechanically, that's very likely part of the explanation. But then the
question is, why aren't there enough Italian players plying their
trade in other leagues? Is it because your typical Italian journeyman
is deemed to be not good enough for your average Europa League team
(say a Ferencvaros/Midtjylland/Panathinaikos)? Or rather, would they
rather be journeymen between Serie B/Serie C teams rather than try
their luck outside of Italy?


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From Newsgroup: rec.sport.soccer

On 01/12/2025 01:27, Futbolmetrix wrote:

On Sun, 30 Nov 2025 14:36:35 -0700, MH <MHnospam@ucalgary.ca> wrote:

How much of this do you think is due to the very large number of Spanish
and French players plying their trade in other countries? Dutch and to
a lesser extent Belgian ones too. Whereas there are not quite so many
Germans, and even fewer Italians (or so it seems to me) playing outside
of their own leagues.

Mechanically, that's very likely part of the explanation. But then the question is, why aren't there enough Italian players plying their
trade in other leagues? Is it because your typical Italian journeyman
is deemed to be not good enough for your average Europa League team
(say a Ferencvaros/Midtjylland/Panathinaikos)? Or rather, would they
rather be journeymen between Serie B/Serie C teams rather than try
their luck outside of Italy?

Well Panathinaikos do have an Italian, and he scored on Thursday (unfortunately).

For what it's worth, Transfermarkt has a tool that shows all players
from a country currently playing abroad (but unfortunately as far as
I'm aware there's no way to get the same table for past seasons, so
there's no way to trace the development).


Italy: https://www.transfermarkt.com/land-statistik/legionaere/statistik/stat/?land_id=75

France: https://www.transfermarkt.com/land-statistik/legionaere/statistik/stat/?land_id=50

Spain: https://www.transfermarkt.com/land-statistik/legionaere/statistik/stat/?land_id=157

Belgium: https://www.transfermarkt.com/land-statistik/legionaere/statistik/stat/?land_id=19

Netherlands: https://www.transfermarkt.com/land-statistik/legionaere/statistik/stat/?land_id=122


(To disregard the huge number e.g. of Italian ex-pats in German and
Swiss lower leagues, sort by market value).


There really is a big discrepancy here. Also, only Italy has both Qatar
and Saudi-Arabia near the top of the list of most valuable players
abroad.


Ciao,
Werner
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