• Use-th-NT statistics 2017-2024

    From Futbolmetrix@futbolmetrix@yahoo.com to rec.sport.soccer on Fri Nov 28 17:42:23 2025
    From Newsgroup: rec.sport.soccer


    So, I wanted to check whether we can infer something about the dearth
    of talent in Italian football (soon to miss its third consecutive
    World Cup) from UtN data. I came up with the following table on the
    number of *actual* goals scored by the representatives of the big UtN
    national teams. These are actual goals: they exclude captaincy bonus,
    but include the number of goals not counted for UtN purposes because
    of UtN constraints (e.g., no more than 5 forwards). I've restricted
    the analysis to the big-5 leagues, Portugal, Benelux, and Scandinavia.

    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    | NT
    | BEN ENG ESP FRA GER ITA POR SCA Total --------+-------------------------------------------------------
    year |
    2017 | 5.5 7.3 8.7 3.5 4.8 2.5 5.4
    2018 | 5.8 3.5 10 2 5.4
    2019 | 10 6.2 6.8 4.8 2 5.2 5.9
    2020 | 9 7.2 8.2 6.5 2.5 6.5 7.7 6.8
    2021 | 9.2 7.5 7.7 7.8 3 6 9.3 7.2
    2022 | 8.8 5.5 5.7 5.5 6.7 12 7.4
    2023 | 10 5.7 9.3 8.3 4 4.7 6.2 14 7.8
    2024 | 10 6.8 6.3 2.1 12 7.5
    Total | 9.1 6 8.1 8.5 5.5 3.3 5.5 11 6.8 ----------------------------------------------------------------

    The comparison is not exactly apples to apples, because the number of
    teams per NT is not the same, and the quality of opposition is not the
    same either (a lot of the Scandinavian goals are in the weaker Europa
    League and Conference League). But still...

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Futbolmetrix@futbolmetrix@yahoo.com to rec.sport.soccer on Sun Nov 30 09:58:33 2025
    From Newsgroup: rec.sport.soccer

    On Fri, 28 Nov 2025 17:42:23 -0500, Futbolmetrix
    <futbolmetrix@yahoo.com> wrote:



    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    | NT
    | BEN ENG ESP FRA GER ITA POR SCA Total
    --------+-------------------------------------------------------
    year |
    2017 | 5.5 7.3 8.7 3.5 4.8 2.5 5.4
    2018 | 5.8 3.5 10 2 5.4
    2019 | 10 6.2 6.8 4.8 2 5.2 5.9
    2020 | 9 7.2 8.2 6.5 2.5 6.5 7.7 6.8
    2021 | 9.2 7.5 7.7 7.8 3 6 9.3 7.2
    2022 | 8.8 5.5 5.7 5.5 6.7 12 7.4
    2023 | 10 5.7 9.3 8.3 4 4.7 6.2 14 7.8
    2024 | 10 6.8 6.3 2.1 12 7.5
    Total | 9.1 6 8.1 8.5 5.5 3.3 5.5 11 6.8
    ----------------------------------------------------------------

    The comparison is not exactly apples to apples, because the number of
    teams per NT is not the same, and the quality of opposition is not the
    same either (a lot of the Scandinavian goals are in the weaker Europa
    League and Conference League). But still...

    Updated table (some of the rounding was off in the previous version):

    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    | NT
    | BEN ENG ESP FRA GER ITA POR SCA Total --------+----------------------------------------------------------
    year |
    2017 | 5.5 7.3 8.7 3.5 4.8 2.5 5.4
    2018 | 5.8 3.5 10.2 2.0 5.4
    2019 | 10.2 6.2 6.8 4.8 2.0 5.2 5.9
    2020 | 9.0 7.2 8.2 6.5 2.5 6.5 7.7 6.8
    2021 | 9.2 7.5 7.7 7.8 3.0 6.0 9.3 7.2
    2022 | 8.8 5.5 5.7 5.5 6.7 12.2 7.4
    2023 | 10.0 5.7 9.3 8.3 4.0 4.7 6.2 14.0 7.8
    2024 | 10.2 6.8 6.2 2.1 12.2 7.5
    Total | 9.1 6.0 8.1 8.5 5.5 3.3 5.5 11.2 6.8 -------------------------------------------------------------------

    Maybe at some point I'll find the time and interest to fill in the
    blanks for ESP, FRA and POR...


    And some other NTs (CCAF = CONCACAF, GAE = Gaels, MENA = Peaceniks,
    SSA = Sub-Saharan Africa/Wakas, WON = Wonderland)


    --------------------------------------------------------------
    | NT
    | ARG BRA CCAF GAE MENA SSA WON Total --------+-----------------------------------------------------
    year |
    2017 | 5.2 11.5 8.3
    2018 | 7.2 2.2 4.7
    2019 | 6.2 4.6 5.5
    2020 | 2.8 5.5 2.3 5.2 5.8 4.4
    2021 | 7.3 8.3 6.0 7.2
    2022 | 2.8 1.2 13.8 4.5 5.6
    2023 | 3.7 8.7 14.2 4.0 7.6
    2024 | 6.9 3.1 3.9 14.2 3.8 6.4
    Total | 5.1 7.0 2.8 2.7 6.9 14.1 4.7 6.2 --------------------------------------------------------------




    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From MH@MHnospam@ucalgary.ca to rec.sport.soccer on Sun Nov 30 14:36:35 2025
    From Newsgroup: rec.sport.soccer

    On 2025-11-30 07:58, Futbolmetrix wrote:
    On Fri, 28 Nov 2025 17:42:23 -0500, Futbolmetrix
    <futbolmetrix@yahoo.com> wrote:



    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    | NT
    | BEN ENG ESP FRA GER ITA POR SCA Total
    --------+-------------------------------------------------------
    year |
    2017 | 5.5 7.3 8.7 3.5 4.8 2.5 5.4
    2018 | 5.8 3.5 10 2 5.4
    2019 | 10 6.2 6.8 4.8 2 5.2 5.9
    2020 | 9 7.2 8.2 6.5 2.5 6.5 7.7 6.8
    2021 | 9.2 7.5 7.7 7.8 3 6 9.3 7.2
    2022 | 8.8 5.5 5.7 5.5 6.7 12 7.4
    2023 | 10 5.7 9.3 8.3 4 4.7 6.2 14 7.8
    2024 | 10 6.8 6.3 2.1 12 7.5
    Total | 9.1 6 8.1 8.5 5.5 3.3 5.5 11 6.8
    ----------------------------------------------------------------

    The comparison is not exactly apples to apples, because the number of
    teams per NT is not the same, and the quality of opposition is not the
    same either (a lot of the Scandinavian goals are in the weaker Europa
    League and Conference League). But still...

    Updated table (some of the rounding was off in the previous version):

    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    | NT
    | BEN ENG ESP FRA GER ITA POR SCA Total --------+----------------------------------------------------------
    year |
    2017 | 5.5 7.3 8.7 3.5 4.8 2.5 5.4
    2018 | 5.8 3.5 10.2 2.0 5.4
    2019 | 10.2 6.2 6.8 4.8 2.0 5.2 5.9
    2020 | 9.0 7.2 8.2 6.5 2.5 6.5 7.7 6.8
    2021 | 9.2 7.5 7.7 7.8 3.0 6.0 9.3 7.2
    2022 | 8.8 5.5 5.7 5.5 6.7 12.2 7.4
    2023 | 10.0 5.7 9.3 8.3 4.0 4.7 6.2 14.0 7.8
    2024 | 10.2 6.8 6.2 2.1 12.2 7.5
    Total | 9.1 6.0 8.1 8.5 5.5 3.3 5.5 11.2 6.8 -------------------------------------------------------------------

    Maybe at some point I'll find the time and interest to fill in the
    blanks for ESP, FRA and POR...


    How much of this do you think is due to the very large number of Spanish
    and French players plying their trade in other countries? Dutch and to
    a lesser extent Belgian ones too. Whereas there are not quite so many Germans, and even fewer Italians (or so it seems to me) playing outside
    of their own leagues.


    And some other NTs (CCAF = CONCACAF, GAE = Gaels, MENA = Peaceniks,
    SSA = Sub-Saharan Africa/Wakas, WON = Wonderland)


    --------------------------------------------------------------
    | NT
    | ARG BRA CCAF GAE MENA SSA WON Total --------+-----------------------------------------------------
    year |
    2017 | 5.2 11.5 8.3
    2018 | 7.2 2.2 4.7
    2019 | 6.2 4.6 5.5
    2020 | 2.8 5.5 2.3 5.2 5.8 4.4
    2021 | 7.3 8.3 6.0 7.2
    2022 | 2.8 1.2 13.8 4.5 5.6
    2023 | 3.7 8.7 14.2 4.0 7.6
    2024 | 6.9 3.1 3.9 14.2 3.8 6.4
    Total | 5.1 7.0 2.8 2.7 6.9 14.1 4.7 6.2 --------------------------------------------------------------





    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Futbolmetrix@futbolmetrix@yahoo.com to rec.sport.soccer on Sun Nov 30 19:27:33 2025
    From Newsgroup: rec.sport.soccer

    On Sun, 30 Nov 2025 14:36:35 -0700, MH <MHnospam@ucalgary.ca> wrote:


    How much of this do you think is due to the very large number of Spanish
    and French players plying their trade in other countries? Dutch and to
    a lesser extent Belgian ones too. Whereas there are not quite so many >Germans, and even fewer Italians (or so it seems to me) playing outside
    of their own leagues.

    Mechanically, that's very likely part of the explanation. But then the
    question is, why aren't there enough Italian players plying their
    trade in other leagues? Is it because your typical Italian journeyman
    is deemed to be not good enough for your average Europa League team
    (say a Ferencvaros/Midtjylland/Panathinaikos)? Or rather, would they
    rather be journeymen between Serie B/Serie C teams rather than try
    their luck outside of Italy?


    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Werner Pichler@wpichler@gmail.com to rec.sport.soccer on Mon Dec 1 02:33:06 2025
    From Newsgroup: rec.sport.soccer

    On 01/12/2025 01:27, Futbolmetrix wrote:
    On Sun, 30 Nov 2025 14:36:35 -0700, MH <MHnospam@ucalgary.ca> wrote:


    How much of this do you think is due to the very large number of Spanish
    and French players plying their trade in other countries? Dutch and to
    a lesser extent Belgian ones too. Whereas there are not quite so many
    Germans, and even fewer Italians (or so it seems to me) playing outside
    of their own leagues.

    Mechanically, that's very likely part of the explanation. But then the question is, why aren't there enough Italian players plying their
    trade in other leagues? Is it because your typical Italian journeyman
    is deemed to be not good enough for your average Europa League team
    (say a Ferencvaros/Midtjylland/Panathinaikos)? Or rather, would they
    rather be journeymen between Serie B/Serie C teams rather than try
    their luck outside of Italy?


    Well Panathinaikos do have an Italian, and he scored on Thursday (unfortunately).

    For what it's worth, Transfermarkt has a tool that shows all players
    from a country currently playing abroad (but unfortunately as far as
    I'm aware there's no way to get the same table for past seasons, so
    there's no way to trace the development).


    Italy: https://www.transfermarkt.com/land-statistik/legionaere/statistik/stat/?land_id=75

    France: https://www.transfermarkt.com/land-statistik/legionaere/statistik/stat/?land_id=50

    Spain: https://www.transfermarkt.com/land-statistik/legionaere/statistik/stat/?land_id=157

    Belgium: https://www.transfermarkt.com/land-statistik/legionaere/statistik/stat/?land_id=19

    Netherlands: https://www.transfermarkt.com/land-statistik/legionaere/statistik/stat/?land_id=122


    (To disregard the huge number e.g. of Italian ex-pats in German and
    Swiss lower leagues, sort by market value).


    There really is a big discrepancy here. Also, only Italy has both Qatar
    and Saudi-Arabia near the top of the list of most valuable players
    abroad.


    Ciao,
    Werner
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2