• 2e

    From rudis@user8921@newsgrouper.org.invalid to rec.games.frp.dnd on Thu Oct 16 12:28:10 2025
    From Newsgroup: rec.games.frp.dnd


    Any second edition love?
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  • From Justisaur@justisaur@yahoo.com to rec.games.frp.dnd on Thu Oct 16 13:48:42 2025
    From Newsgroup: rec.games.frp.dnd

    On 10/16/2025 5:28 AM, rudis wrote:

    Any second edition love?

    My favorite edition. I've got all the class splats, and a few other
    things.
    --
    -Justisaur

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  • From Mortimer Houghton@mortimer@VivoBook.X512D to rec.games.frp.dnd on Fri Oct 17 01:15:36 2025
    From Newsgroup: rec.games.frp.dnd

    rudis <user8921@newsgrouper.org.invalid> writes:


    Any second edition love?

    I like Pathfinder 2e, but I'm thinking that doesn't count.
    --
    There are the known knowns, things we know we know; and the known
    unknowns, things we know we do not know; but there are also the
    unknown unknowns, those things we don't know we don't know...but
    what about the unknown knowns, things we do not know we know?
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  • From Zaghadka@zaghadka@hotmail.com to rec.games.frp.dnd on Fri Oct 17 13:30:59 2025
    From Newsgroup: rec.games.frp.dnd

    On Thu, 16 Oct 2025 12:28:10 GMT, rudis
    <user8921@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:


    Any second edition love?

    Absolutely! I loved the looseleaf monstrous compendium, though I
    unfortunately lost it.

    Also, it was quirky instead of standardized. 3e went all rules lawyer on
    us, and magic is bland. There was still a sense of mystery in 2e. That
    you could do anything with magic, and specialty priests were... special.

    THAC0 is not that hard to deal with, for the naysayers. Nor are the old
    1e saving throw types.
    --
    Zag

    Give me the liberty to know, to think, to believe,
    and to utter freely according to conscience, above
    all other liberties. ~John Milton
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  • From Justisaur@justisaur@yahoo.com to rec.games.frp.dnd on Mon Oct 20 07:44:12 2025
    From Newsgroup: rec.games.frp.dnd

    On 10/16/2025 6:15 PM, Mortimer Houghton wrote:
    rudis <user8921@newsgrouper.org.invalid> writes:


    Any second edition love?

    I like Pathfinder 2e, but I'm thinking that doesn't count.

    I like Holmes D&D, which is sort of 2nd edition from OD&D :)
    --
    -Justisaur

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  • From gbbgu@gbbgu@gbbgu.com to rec.games.frp.dnd on Tue Oct 21 23:45:07 2025
    From Newsgroup: rec.games.frp.dnd

    On 16 Oct 2025, rudis wrote:


    Any second edition love?

    I love 2e. They were the first rule books that were "mine" which I saved up to buy with my own money.

    Unfortunately lent the PHB and DMG to a friend in 1996 or something and never got them back :(

    I wish DTRPG offered the 3 col books from the 90s as a print on demand, not
    the 2 col limited edition reprints from 2013 or something.
    --
    gbbgu
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  • From gbbgu@gbbgu@gbbgu.com to rec.games.frp.dnd on Tue Oct 21 23:51:20 2025
    From Newsgroup: rec.games.frp.dnd

    On 18 Oct 2025, Zaghadka wrote:

    Absolutely! I loved the looseleaf monstrous compendium, though I unfortunately lost it.

    As a kid with all the free time in the world, I spent ages sticking on little plastic ring protectors to stop those pages immediatlly ripping out of the binder.

    And like every one else, buying modules with loose leaf monsters to add to the folder was great until you found out that you couldn't keep them in alphabetical order.
    --
    gbbgu
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  • From Kyonshi@gmkeros@gmail.com to rec.games.frp.dnd on Mon Oct 27 15:29:07 2025
    From Newsgroup: rec.games.frp.dnd

    On 10/22/2025 1:51 AM, gbbgu wrote:
    On 18 Oct 2025, Zaghadka wrote:

    Absolutely! I loved the looseleaf monstrous compendium, though I
    unfortunately lost it.

    As a kid with all the free time in the world, I spent ages sticking on little plastic ring protectors to stop those pages immediatlly ripping out of the binder.

    And like every one else, buying modules with loose leaf monsters to add to the
    folder was great until you found out that you couldn't keep them in alphabetical order.


    I loved the concept of those loose-leafed manuals (like I also loved the
    way Harnmaster did the same with it's whole setting). But it's not quite
    as comfortable to use as one would think.
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  • From Kyonshi@gmkeros@gmail.com to rec.games.frp.dnd on Mon Oct 27 15:31:44 2025
    From Newsgroup: rec.games.frp.dnd

    On 10/16/2025 2:28 PM, rudis wrote:

    Any second edition love?

    2e was not too bad, but it feels a bit sanitized in comparison to the
    quirky 1e products.
    Even the stuff they did with 2e product lines always were much more interesting in concept than they were in actual practice. I love the
    ideas behind Dark Sun and Spelljammer for example, I less love the
    execution.

    Still, I play more B/X-OSR-mishmash, and while 2e products feel more
    generic one can find at least some kernels of inspiration in them. Much
    more than the later editions.
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  • From Zaghadka@zaghadka@hotmail.com to rec.games.frp.dnd on Mon Oct 27 10:29:42 2025
    From Newsgroup: rec.games.frp.dnd

    On Mon, 27 Oct 2025 15:29:07 +0100, Kyonshi <gmkeros@gmail.com> wrote:

    On 10/22/2025 1:51 AM, gbbgu wrote:
    On 18 Oct 2025, Zaghadka wrote:

    Absolutely! I loved the looseleaf monstrous compendium, though I
    unfortunately lost it.

    As a kid with all the free time in the world, I spent ages sticking on little
    plastic ring protectors to stop those pages immediatlly ripping out of the >> binder.

    And like every one else, buying modules with loose leaf monsters to add to the
    folder was great until you found out that you couldn't keep them in
    alphabetical order.


    I loved the concept of those loose-leafed manuals (like I also loved the
    way Harnmaster did the same with it's whole setting). But it's not quite
    as comfortable to use as one would think.

    I liked that I could pop out the stat blocks for a particular adventure
    and stick them into their own binder. It was not meant to be used in the
    way you would use the Monster Manual. Many people tore through the binder
    holes using it in that way, as it was quite thick.
    --
    Zag

    Give me the liberty to know, to think, to believe,
    and to utter freely according to conscience, above
    all other liberties. ~John Milton
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  • From Justisaur@justisaur@yahoo.com to rec.games.frp.dnd on Thu Oct 30 10:38:44 2025
    From Newsgroup: rec.games.frp.dnd

    On 10/27/2025 8:29 AM, Zaghadka wrote:
    On Mon, 27 Oct 2025 15:29:07 +0100, Kyonshi <gmkeros@gmail.com> wrote:

    On 10/22/2025 1:51 AM, gbbgu wrote:
    On 18 Oct 2025, Zaghadka wrote:

    Absolutely! I loved the looseleaf monstrous compendium, though I
    unfortunately lost it.

    As a kid with all the free time in the world, I spent ages sticking on little
    plastic ring protectors to stop those pages immediatlly ripping out of the >>> binder.

    And like every one else, buying modules with loose leaf monsters to add to the
    folder was great until you found out that you couldn't keep them in
    alphabetical order.


    I loved the concept of those loose-leafed manuals (like I also loved the
    way Harnmaster did the same with it's whole setting). But it's not quite
    as comfortable to use as one would think.

    I liked that I could pop out the stat blocks for a particular adventure
    and stick them into their own binder. It was not meant to be used in the
    way you would use the Monster Manual. Many people tore through the binder holes using it in that way, as it was quite thick.


    Yep, I had to use hole reinforcers. I hate those loose leaves for
    monsters. Also had to use a separate binders, which introduced more cost.
    --
    -Justisaur

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    \\
    ^'
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  • From Justisaur@justisaur@yahoo.com to rec.games.frp.dnd on Thu Oct 30 10:43:44 2025
    From Newsgroup: rec.games.frp.dnd

    On 10/27/2025 7:31 AM, Kyonshi wrote:
    On 10/16/2025 2:28 PM, rudis wrote:

    Any second edition love?

    2e was not too bad, but it feels a bit sanitized in comparison to the
    quirky 1e products.
    Even the stuff they did with 2e product lines always were much more interesting in concept than they were in actual practice. I love the
    ideas behind Dark Sun and Spelljammer for example, I less love the execution.

    The system worked well for me. I agree I missed the more interesting
    text, but it made the game a lot easier to understand. Plus I still
    used a number of things from 1e.

    Spelljammer I only used the monsters, and had a hook in the campaign if
    the players wanted to start spelljamming, but they didn't take it up.

    Dark Suns I both played in and ran, but neither came out very well, both
    were short and annoying. The computer game was one of the better SSI
    games though.

    -Justisaur

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  • From Spalls Hurgenson@spallshurgenson@gmail.com to rec.games.frp.dnd on Sun Nov 2 12:56:05 2025
    From Newsgroup: rec.games.frp.dnd

    On Thu, 16 Oct 2025 12:28:10 GMT, rudis
    <user8921@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:


    Any second edition love?

    I've made no secret of my love of the edition. In fact, whenever I
    play, 2nd Edition is what I tend to use.


    (Well... now look what you've gone and done. You've
    gotten me started on this topic! Sorry for the wall of
    prose that's gonna follow, but remember, it was rudis who
    started it ;-)


    It's not really that I think it's the greatest system. Let's face it;
    2nd Ed has a lot of rough areas. I just don't think any of the other
    iterations of the game are really any better. That, combined with my
    preference for the grittier style of the game and my familiarity with
    the rules is why I still use it.

    But ultimately, I don't really think it's the RULE SYSTEM that makes
    for a good game or not. It's the GM, and the players, and the
    adventure, and how they all interact. You could probably have a good
    time using the FATAL system if all the other elements were good
    enough. Maybe even Rolemaster too!*

    I always felt 2nd Ed got short shrift. I think it was, given its
    design choices, a remarkably good system. It wanted to be Gygaxian
    AD&D, but streamlined, and I think it achieved this goal admirably. It
    mostly maintained the feel of the 1st Edition game, but polished out
    some of the rougher aspects of the original game while still keeping
    many of those more difficult ideas (like weapon vs armor hit bonuses)
    as optional rules. The game was _far_ more accessible than Gygax's
    dense prose, and far more willing to concede that the rule-books
    weren't the end-all to how the game should be played.

    I think a lot of the dislike for the edition had nothing to do with
    the rules themselves, but with everything else surrounding the game.
    Some saw (not entirely incorrectly) the new edition as a money grab.
    Others said it was an attempt (again, not entirely without merit) to
    write Gygax out of the game. Some people really disliked the way TSR
    handled the whole "demons vs Baatezu" thing too.** And some didn't
    like how few changes TSR made to the new edition, comparing it
    unfavorably to non-TSR competitors.

    But I loved it.

    It was just the _right_ level of complexity for me. I didn't want an
    _easy_ game. I loved that it still maintained some of the unfathomable
    jargon that made D&D something of a shibboleth to geek underculture.
    After all, if you couldn't calculate THAC0 (or even knew what that
    was), were you really somebody worth hanging out with? But at the same
    time, the new edition made the game quicker to play; you didn't have
    to constantly refer back to the rulebooks to get through a single
    round.

    The older editions, harkening back to its wargaming roots, were much
    more about the mechanics. You played against the rules; you needed to
    master the nitty-gritty to succeed. But that was never what interested
    me about the game. I was in it for the setting and the characters. I
    wanted to create STORIES with my friends. The newer edition
    facilitated that much better than the old.

    But there was more to love about 2nd Edition. Mechanically, the game
    didn't take many chances... but structurally it was much more modular.
    From the start, it was built to add in new classes, races and
    monsters. We saw this immediately with the PHBR and DMGR series, and
    with the folio-like Monstrous Compendium, but that modularity was
    built into the game itself. There were so many OPTIONAL rules you
    could use -or not- as your group pleased. No AD&D 2nd Ed. game was the
    same as the next. It gave every group personal control over their own adventures in a way that was discouraged in the older editions. It put
    the players in charge, not TSR. That was a huge shift, and I think
    that change --that the players, not the publishers, are the heart of
    the game-- resonates to this day in the OSR/third-party developer
    movement.

    Add into all that the sheer volume of content TSR released in support
    of second edition; a flood that hasn't been matched by any other
    edition. Yes, some of it was absolute crap, and even a lot of the good
    stuff had flaws. But there was some awesome stuff too, and because
    there was so much of it, you couldn't help but stumble across some
    good material eventually.

    It wasn't just table-top gaming either. The sheer volume of
    D&D-related material --novels, comics, video games-- helped turn D&D
    from a geeky hobby into something that -slowly but evermore surely-
    was something recognized as a part of mainstream culture. TSR novels
    appeared in the NY Times best-seller lists, for gosh sake!

    Still, it isn't really the mechanics that keeps me playing it. In
    fact, whenever I DM'd a new group and had them use the crunky old 2nd
    Ed. rules, I lamented that I was forcing an overly complex game upon
    them when there were easier systems available. Wouldn't it be better,
    I asked myself, if I just used 5th Ed? Easier to learn, and when the
    players inevitably moved on to other groups, they'd be able to
    transition more easily.

    But I stick with 2nd Ed. anyway.

    It's the FEEL of the game. Later editions are much more... well, I
    often say they are more 'comic-book super-hero' in feel, because they
    give the players much more power and abilities. There's a better
    balance between player classes too, and more modularity in the classes themselves. But I _like_ the lethality of the old-school games, where
    the PCs are often out-classed by the monsters. I _like_ the imbalance
    in power between classes (e.g 'linear fighters and quadratic
    wizards'). It forces the players to work together more. It's nothing
    you can't do in later editions... but you have to work at it. In 2nd
    Ed., it comes free with the rules.

    And, like I said, I just have more familiarity with the system. That
    means I can focus on creating and running the adventures, and not have
    to learn and relearn new systems all the time. I just don't see the
    NEED to personally move on from 2nd Ed.

    So, yeah... I guess you could say I've some love for second edition.
    I'll happily acknowledge its many flaws, and have no problem with
    others playing the editions they enjoy more... but I haven't really
    found any other system that was so much better that I'm happy to move
    to it.





    ------
    * I kid, I kid. I use Rolemaster as a punching bag but I have a sort
    of soft-spot for the game. And those critical hit table results are
    the bomb!

    **Honestly, given the pressure from groups like MADD and the hysteria
    around the game, I have no problem with that. It added some much
    needed depth to the fiends, and it wasn't like you couldn't still call
    them demons in your own game. But a lot of people thought TSR was
    folding to pressure... even though they STILL used fiends -albeit
    renamed- in the game itself.




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  • From Spalls Hurgenson@spallshurgenson@gmail.com to rec.games.frp.dnd on Thu Nov 6 12:22:17 2025
    From Newsgroup: rec.games.frp.dnd

    On Sun, 02 Nov 2025 12:56:05 -0500, Spalls Hurgenson <spallshurgenson@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Thu, 16 Oct 2025 12:28:10 GMT, rudis
    <user8921@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:

    Any second edition love?


    Side note:

    I never really cared for the Monstrous Compendium format. Oh sure, at
    first it seemed really neat; an expandable folio of monsters? How cool
    is that! But --as other posters have pointed out-- the way TSR
    formatted it (with monsters printed front-and-back and pages) meant
    that it was difficult to keep in alphabetical order.

    And --ohmigod!-- those binders were /so/ huge. I guess the idea was
    that, as DM, you'd pull out the pages you needed whenever you went to
    play the game, but I always found that so impractical. Not only were
    you never sure what monsters you might need, but pulling the pages
    from the folio (and then putting them back in when the session was
    over) was such a tedious process. The removal also put the delicate
    punch-holes at risk of tearing

    So instead I just dragged the binders with me whenever I had to
    play... which wasn't so bad with at first, but ultimately the game had
    /23/ Monstrous Compendium expansions. I filled out four binders with
    all those critters.

    [Oh sure, I could have maybe just NOT have bought all the
    shit TSR pumped out... but you never know when you're gonna
    need the stat-block for a Phirblas or a Valpurgeist.]

    When TSR released the hard-bound "Monstrous Manual", I was so
    grateful. Finally, a single easy-to-carry volume that had all of the
    most-used monsters in a handy book.

    A lot of 2nd Edition stuff I loved... but the Monstrous Compendium
    format is not included in that list.



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  • From Punga@great-atuin.net@goat.great-atuin.net to rec.games.frp.dnd on Mon Dec 29 12:24:08 2025
    From Newsgroup: rec.games.frp.dnd

    On 2025-10-16, rudis <user8921@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:

    Any second edition love?

    My first love! I still have several of my books in a place of honor in
    my bookshelves, and, while I don't play it anymore, I often peruse them
    in order to get inspired.
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