From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

Its pretty easy to make a short very light duty chain with an
appropriate bender. I have a few. Purchased and shop made. Its
adequate for decorative work, or even something like a light fixture,
but I'd like to be able to weld the links. I've seen a process (don't
recall where) that looks like they get the ends hot and stick them
together, but the logistics don't make sense to me. Electricity don't
flow the right way for that to happen in my mind.
--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff

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From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

On 12/11/2025 12:44 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:

Its pretty easy to make a short very light duty chain with an
appropriate bender.-a I have a few.-a Purchased and shop made.-a Its adequate for decorative work, or even something like a light fixture,
but I'd like to be able to weld the links.-a I've seen a process (don't recall where) that looks like they get the ends hot and stick them
together, but the logistics don't make sense to me.-a Electricity don't
flow the right way for that to happen in my mind.

Of course I could MIG, TIG, Stick, FCAW, or even O/A weld them, but this looked electrical and autogenous.

I might be be able to autogenous TIG, but it be a thin spot. This
looked like they pushed the ends together.
--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff
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From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

On 11/12/2025 19:48, Bob La Londe wrote:

On 12/11/2025 12:44 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:

Its pretty easy to make a short very light duty chain with an
appropriate bender.-a I have a few.-a Purchased and shop made.-a Its
adequate for decorative work, or even something like a light fixture,
but I'd like to be able to weld the links.-a I've seen a process
(don't recall where) that looks like they get the ends hot and stick
them together, but the logistics don't make sense to me.-a Electricity
don't flow the right way for that to happen in my mind.

Of course I could MIG, TIG, Stick, FCAW, or even O/A weld them, but
this looked electrical and autogenous.

I might be be able to autogenous TIG, but it be a thin spot.-a This
looked like they pushed the ends together.

I've seen the videos of production of chain and it's electric resistance
butt welded from what I've seen.

What diameter wire or rod are you talking about if you TIG weld it. I've
butt welded quite a few items in the 3mm to 5mm region with TIG, not had
to try larger or smaller, and found the surface tension holds the molten
metal in place and forms a nice joint sometimes with a small filler
addition.

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From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:10hf6vf$2eqsr$1@dont-email.me...

Its pretty easy to make a short very light duty chain with an
appropriate bender. I have a few. Purchased and shop made. Its
adequate for decorative work, or even something like a light fixture,
but I'd like to be able to weld the links. I've seen a process (don't
recall where) that looks like they get the ends hot and stick them
together, but the logistics don't make sense to me. Electricity don't
flow the right way for that to happen in my mind.
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff
-----------------------------------------

I mostly use chain for fairly short logging slings and buy everything that will be heavily loaded in tension. Dealers in logging and rigging equipment have a much better and wider selection of chain sizes and strengths and connecting fittings than hardware stores. Sellers Crane Service in Yuma may know a local source.

Grades up through 70 may be carbon steel which can snap without warning when overloaded, the higher grades rated for overhead lifting are alloy steel
that deforms and stretches first.

A county fair blacksmith showed me how to forge weld traditional chain for
ox pulls, quite quickly. The 3/8" rod is bent hot into a U on a simple jig, cut or sheared from the rod and then the ends tapered to up and down wedge shapes with convex contact surfaces from a skilled hammer twist, and bent inward to a V, overlapping and nearly touching.

When fluxed with borax and heated white hot the ends are hammered together
to join the link and quickly rounded on the anvil horn. As the convex
surfaces are forced together they hopefully squeeze the flux out as the weld contact area expands without trapping any.

Since he was making only one link there was a delay while reheating, several could be waiting in the fire to speed the process.

The jig which fit onto the anvil face was a flat with the U in the middle
and one raised side to restrain the end while hot bending the rod around the U.

He had customized tongs for the task. I think standard farrier (horse
shoeing) tongs with two spoon-shaped jaws spaced apart by the thickness of
the blank would do. The spoon edges give width to firmly grasp curved shapes held at angles like horse shoes, or chain links.

I made long sidewall links for custom snow/mud chains for my tractor by overlapping and welding the joints. T'weren't purty but the mud didn't mind.

Way down on my to-do list is a set of grooved spotwelding tips to weld chainmail links.

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From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

"David Billington" wrote in message news:10hf7il$2erku$1@dont-email.me...

I've seen the videos of production of chain and it's electric resistance
butt welded from what I've seen.

What diameter wire or rod are you talking about if you TIG weld it. I've
butt welded quite a few items in the 3mm to 5mm region with TIG, not had
to try larger or smaller, and found the surface tension holds the molten
metal in place and forms a nice joint sometimes with a small filler
addition.

--------------------------------------

A half round groove in a firebrick, cut with an angle grinder or chop saw, might help hold the link in place and confine the puddle. Metal spacers
could support the one or two links that join it.

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From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

On 12/11/2025 5:52 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

"David Billington"-a wrote in message news:10hf7il$2erku$1@dont-email.me...

I've seen the videos of production of chain and it's electric resistance
butt welded from what I've seen.

What diameter wire or rod are you talking about if you TIG weld it. I've
butt welded quite a few items in the 3mm to 5mm region with TIG, not had
to try larger or smaller, and found the surface tension holds the molten metal in place and forms a nice joint sometimes with a small filler
addition.

--------------------------------------

A half round groove in a firebrick, cut with an angle grinder or chop
saw, might help hold the link in place and confine the puddle. Metal
spacers could support the one or two links that join it.

If I play with this I'd probably want to come up with something really
fast. This is not for any kind of load chain. Maybe not even a
decorative load like a lamp. Its just one of those things I want to
play with, like a 3D printer.

For loads I have 4 3/8 load chains and chain binders. I put each load
chain in an ammo can for easy hauling. Two will fit, but its a little
heavy with two. I also have a bunch of those 3700/10000 ratchet straps.
The last several vehicles I've hauled I used ratchet straps, but I
like chains when I haul my tractor. I always used chains on my scissors
lifts too, but I sold those when I quit contracting.

No, this is just playing.
--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff
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From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

On 12/12/2025 00:52, Jim Wilkins wrote:

"David Billington"-a wrote in message
news:10hf7il$2erku$1@dont-email.me...

I've seen the videos of production of chain and it's electric resistance
butt welded from what I've seen.

What diameter wire or rod are you talking about if you TIG weld it. I've
butt welded quite a few items in the 3mm to 5mm region with TIG, not had
to try larger or smaller, and found the surface tension holds the molten metal in place and forms a nice joint sometimes with a small filler
addition.

--------------------------------------

A half round groove in a firebrick, cut with an angle grinder or chop
saw, might help hold the link in place and confine the puddle. Metal
spacers could support the one or two links that join it.

The last weld of this type I did on 3.2mm CCMS and the guy I did it for
made the jigs in plywood, I just asked that he relieved it locally next
to and behind where the joint was so any wood burning wouldn't affect
the weld. IIRC it had about 6mm either side of the join and 4mm behind
and there was hardly any charring of the wood as it was argon shielded
as well while the weld pool was at its hottest and during post flow as
the weld was cooling, the weld only taking a couple of seconds plus the
post flow time. With this type of butt weld I've never found any need to support the weld pool as the surface tension of the molten pool seems to produce a nice cylindrical joint if no filler added or barrel shaped if
filler added. I guess if you added loads of filler it might drop but
that's not needed.

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From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:10hfsr8$hjd2$1@dont-email.me...

For loads I have 4 3/8 load chains and chain binders. I put each load
chain in an ammo can for easy hauling. Two will fit, but its a little
heavy with two. I also have a bunch of those 3700/10000 ratchet straps.
The last several vehicles I've hauled I used ratchet straps, but I
like chains when I haul my tractor. I always used chains on my scissors
lifts too, but I sold those when I quit contracting. -------------------------------

That's a good idea, I have 3/8" Gr70 and 5/16" Gr43 transport chains that
need storage and carrying containers.

Usually I take a lever chain hoist and some chain in a horse stall bucket because the hoist will also pull a load up a ramp. The ladder rack I made
for my truck is strong enough to pull 700 Lbs (tested) into the bed due to diagonal side braces to the rear stake pocket eyes. At that load my wooden stake pocket fillers (or the sheet metal pockets) began to shift. The hoist
is a 2000 Lb one from Northern with 12' of chain, the bucket keeps the loose chain end out of the dirt.

The 91 Ranger is rated for and OK with 1000 Lbs within the bed but 700 at
the end of the tailgate bottoms it to the overload bumpers, which I've
broken off while logging and had to replace.

Yesterday it passed a careful state inspection with NO areas of concern
noted. They know I can and will fix anything suspicious.

I reached 1000 Lbs of pull with a 2" D handle ratchet cargo strap. It falls off quickly as the strap winds larger on the shaft.

When stuck in mud I cut sticks to line up like tank treads, but need
something for the short pull onto them.

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From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

On Thu, 11 Dec 2025 12:44:48 -0700
Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> wrote:

Its pretty easy to make a short very light duty chain with an
appropriate bender. I have a few. Purchased and shop made. Its
adequate for decorative work, or even something like a light fixture,
but I'd like to be able to weld the links. I've seen a process (don't >recall where) that looks like they get the ends hot and stick them
together, but the logistics don't make sense to me. Electricity don't
flow the right way for that to happen in my mind.

Commercial chain making uses kick-butt resistance welders (like spot
welders).

Each side of the open link gets clamped down and then oodles of current
are applied at low voltage. The ends glow red and when they melt the
clamped ends slightly nudge together. Current is shut off and they're
left to cool. The bulge or collar formed is knocked or ground off.
Lots of youtube vids show the process:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZ-iD7NVaIQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ma9XnaK7NEQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0j21LBq3OVs

In the past I've oxy-acy brazed cut chain ends back together after
cutting them while making horseshoe and ring puzzles. Welding
the links isn't really necessary for this other than to show the links
weren't spread open to solve the puzzle.

I think oxy-acy or tig with little to no filler would be the way to go.
I made a few with MIG but the added filler necessary for welding is a
pain to grind off afterwards...
--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

On Thu, 11 Dec 2025 12:48:02 -0700, Bob La Londe <none@none.com99>
wrote:

On 12/11/2025 12:44 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:

Its pretty easy to make a short very light duty chain with an
appropriate bender.a I have a few.a Purchased and shop made.a Its
adequate for decorative work, or even something like a light fixture,
but I'd like to be able to weld the links.a I've seen a process (don't
recall where) that looks like they get the ends hot and stick them
together, but the logistics don't make sense to me.a Electricity don't
flow the right way for that to happen in my mind.

Of course I could MIG, TIG, Stick, FCAW, or even O/A weld them, but this >looked electrical and autogenous.

I might be be able to autogenous TIG, but it be a thin spot. This
looked like they pushed the ends together.

I think you are referring to a "forged" chain. the ends are pushed
together in a semi-molten state - basically forge welded.
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From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

Leon Fisk <lfiskgr@gmail.invalid> wrote:

On Thu, 11 Dec 2025 12:44:48 -0700
Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> wrote:

but I'd like to be able to weld the links. I've seen a process (don't >>recall where) that looks like they get the ends hot and stick them >>together, but the logistics don't make sense to me. Electricity don't >>flow the right way for that to happen in my mind.

Commercial chain making uses kick-butt resistance welders (like spot welders).

Each side of the open link gets clamped down and then oodles of current
are applied at low voltage. The ends glow red and when they melt the
clamped ends slightly nudge together. Current is shut off and they're
left to cool. The bulge or collar formed is knocked or ground off.
Lots of youtube vids show the process:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZ-iD7NVaIQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ma9XnaK7NEQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0j21LBq3OVs

Does anybody know if the welding is done with AC or DC?
I'd think AC, since the loop side of the link presents
a reactance that could be tuned to favor sending more
current through the joint. But, it isn't obvious the
effect is big enough to be useful at frequenccies
consistent with delivering enough power.

Thanks for posting,

bob prohaska

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From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking



BP wrote in message news:10hk2of$6453$1@dont-email.me...

Leon Fisk <lfiskgr@gmail.invalid> wrote:

On Thu, 11 Dec 2025 12:44:48 -0700
Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> wrote:

but I'd like to be able to weld the links. I've seen a process (don't >>recall where) that looks like they get the ends hot and stick them >>together, but the logistics don't make sense to me. Electricity don't
flow the right way for that to happen in my mind.

Commercial chain making uses kick-butt resistance welders (like spot welders).

Each side of the open link gets clamped down and then oodles of current
are applied at low voltage. The ends glow red and when they melt the
clamped ends slightly nudge together. Current is shut off and they're
left to cool. The bulge or collar formed is knocked or ground off.
Lots of youtube vids show the process:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZ-iD7NVaIQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ma9XnaK7NEQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0j21LBq3OVs

Does anybody know if the welding is done with AC or DC?
I'd think AC, since the loop side of the link presents
a reactance that could be tuned to favor sending more
current through the joint. But, it isn't obvious the
effect is big enough to be useful at frequenccies
consistent with delivering enough power.

Thanks for posting,

bob prohaska
------------------------------
If the current passes through both ends crosswise in parallel to heat both independently there would be little current around the loop.

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From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

Jim Wilkins <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:

BP wrote in message news:10hk2of$6453$1@dont-email.me...

Leon Fisk <lfiskgr@gmail.invalid> wrote:

On Thu, 11 Dec 2025 12:44:48 -0700
Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> wrote:

but I'd like to be able to weld the links. I've seen a process (don't >>>recall where) that looks like they get the ends hot and stick them >>>together, but the logistics don't make sense to me. Electricity don't >>>flow the right way for that to happen in my mind.

Commercial chain making uses kick-butt resistance welders (like spot
welders).

Each side of the open link gets clamped down and then oodles of current
are applied at low voltage. The ends glow red and when they melt the
clamped ends slightly nudge together. Current is shut off and they're
left to cool. The bulge or collar formed is knocked or ground off.
Lots of youtube vids show the process:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZ-iD7NVaIQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ma9XnaK7NEQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0j21LBq3OVs

Does anybody know if the welding is done with AC or DC?
I'd think AC, since the loop side of the link presents
a reactance that could be tuned to favor sending more
current through the joint. But, it isn't obvious the
effect is big enough to be useful at frequenccies
consistent with delivering enough power.

Thanks for posting,

bob prohaska
------------------------------
If the current passes through both ends crosswise in parallel to heat both independently there would be little current around the loop.

Is that in fact the current direction? Most spot welding tries to guide current through the weld, AFAIK. Welders for single-sided welding of
battery pack connections don't, but they work on much thinner material.

Thanks for writing,

bob prohaska

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From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

BP wrote in message news:10hk9o3$8v63$1@dont-email.me...

Is that in fact the current direction? Most spot welding tries to guide
current through the weld, AFAIK. Welders for single-sided welding of
battery pack connections don't, but they work on much thinner material.

Thanks for writing,

bob prohaska

-----------------------------

Battery lead spot welders including mine pass current between two closely spaced contact probes, not the battery internals.

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