• Brazing carbide

    From Snag@Snag_one@msn.com to rec.crafts.metalworking on Tue Feb 17 21:52:47 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

    I'm going to try my hand at brazing new carbide on some chipped and
    worn boring bars for my mill . I have 3 choices for heat source , O/A ,
    TIG , or my induction heater . I also have a couple of choices for braze filler , phosphor bronze TIG filler , regular brazing rod , and silver
    solder if I can find mine . I also have some brass wire , composition
    unknown and a few sticks of silphos , though I don't know if that will
    stick to steel . I also have both borax and regular brazing flux .

    The plan is to heat and remove the old/broken insert , apply flux and
    a thin piece of brazing filler topped with a new carbide piece , and
    heat to brazing temp . After watching a couple of youtube videos it
    looks like I may need to hold the new carbide in place as it heats/cools
    , I'll probably use a piece of SS TIG filler for that .

    I just realized that I can replace the carbide teeth on the face mill
    that came with my milling machine . I tried to sharpen the cutters on
    the lathe , turned out less than optimum . If I do that I'll use the
    indexing device I built for sharpening end mills to sharpen them . Might
    try that to even them up , might turn out I don't need to replace them
    right away .

    Thoughts on heat source and filler selections ?
    --
    Snag
    I appreciated foreign cultures more
    when they stayed foreign ...
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jim Wilkins@muratlanne@gmail.com to rec.crafts.metalworking on Wed Feb 18 07:38:52 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

    "Snag" wrote in message news:10n3d2g$2b87p$1@dont-email.me...

    I'm going to try my hand at brazing new carbide on some chipped and worn boring bars for my mill .

    What grade of carbide are you using, and why?

    I finally have grinders with diamond wheels to resharpen brazed tools and inserts.

    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From David Billington@djb@invalid.com to rec.crafts.metalworking on Wed Feb 18 12:43:26 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

    On 18/02/2026 03:52, Snag wrote:
    I'm going to try my hand at brazing new carbide on some chipped and
    worn boring bars for my mill . I have 3 choices for heat source , O/A
    , TIG , or my induction heater . I also have a couple of choices for
    braze filler , phosphor bronze TIG filler , regular brazing rod , and
    silver solder if I can find mine . I also have some brass wire ,
    composition unknown and a few sticks of silphos , though I don't know
    if that will stick to steel . I also have both borax and regular
    brazing flux .

    -aThe plan is to heat and remove the old/broken insert , apply flux and
    a thin piece of brazing filler topped with a new carbide piece , and
    heat to brazing temp . After watching a couple of youtube videos it
    looks like I may need to hold the new carbide in place as it
    heats/cools , I'll probably use a piece of SS TIG filler for that .

    -a I just realized that I can replace the carbide teeth on the face
    mill that came with my milling machine . I tried to sharpen the
    cutters on the lathe , turned out less than optimum . If I do that
    I'll use the indexing device I built for sharpening end mills to
    sharpen them . Might try that to even them up , might turn out I don't
    need to replace them right away .

    -aThoughts on heat source and filler selections ?

    I don't know if regular brazing flux is going to do it, I use one
    intended for brazing tips and stainless steel as it is formulated to
    deal with the more tenacious oxides.

    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Snag@Snag_one@msn.com to rec.crafts.metalworking on Wed Feb 18 06:49:32 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

    On 2/18/2026 6:38 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    "Snag"-a wrote in message news:10n3d2g$2b87p$1@dont-email.me...

    -a I'm going to try my hand at brazing new carbide on some chipped and
    worn boring bars for my mill .

    What grade of carbide are you using, and why?

    I finally have grinders with diamond wheels to resharpen brazed tools
    and inserts.


    I plan to use slices of the shank of a half inch carbide router bit . Somewhere here I have a few carbide inserts that are candidates if I can
    find them . I have diamond blades for the Dremel and a tile saw with a
    diamond blade and a green stone on my bench grinder
    --
    Snag
    I appreciated foreign cultures more
    when they stayed foreign ...
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Snag@Snag_one@msn.com to rec.crafts.metalworking on Wed Feb 18 06:54:50 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

    On 2/18/2026 6:43 AM, David Billington wrote:
    On 18/02/2026 03:52, Snag wrote:
    I'm going to try my hand at brazing new carbide on some chipped and
    worn boring bars for my mill . I have 3 choices for heat source , O/A
    , TIG , or my induction heater . I also have a couple of choices for
    braze filler , phosphor bronze TIG filler , regular brazing rod , and
    silver solder if I can find mine . I also have some brass wire ,
    composition unknown and a few sticks of silphos , though I don't know
    if that will stick to steel . I also have both borax and regular
    brazing flux .

    -aThe plan is to heat and remove the old/broken insert , apply flux and
    a thin piece of brazing filler topped with a new carbide piece , and
    heat to brazing temp . After watching a couple of youtube videos it
    looks like I may need to hold the new carbide in place as it
    heats/cools , I'll probably use a piece of SS TIG filler for that .

    -a I just realized that I can replace the carbide teeth on the face
    mill that came with my milling machine . I tried to sharpen the
    cutters on the lathe , turned out less than optimum . If I do that
    I'll use the indexing device I built for sharpening end mills to
    sharpen them . Might try that to even them up , might turn out I don't
    need to replace them right away .

    -aThoughts on heat source and filler selections ?

    I don't know if regular brazing flux is going to do it, I use one
    intended for brazing tips and stainless steel as it is formulated to
    deal with the more tenacious oxides.


    In a couple of the videos I watched they were using straight borax
    ... I also have some flux intended for use with molten brass and aluminum .
    --
    Snag
    I appreciated foreign cultures more
    when they stayed foreign ...
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Bob La Londe@none@none.com99 to rec.crafts.metalworking on Wed Feb 18 15:16:42 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

    On 2/17/2026 8:52 PM, Snag wrote:
    -a I'm going to try my hand at brazing new carbide on some chipped and
    worn boring bars for my mill . I have 3 choices for heat source , O/A ,
    TIG , or my induction heater . I also have a couple of choices for braze filler , phosphor bronze TIG filler , regular brazing rod , and silver solder if I can find mine . I also have some brass wire , composition unknown and a few sticks of silphos , though I don't know if that will
    stick to steel . I also have both borax and regular brazing flux .

    -aThe plan is to heat and remove the old/broken insert , apply flux and
    a thin piece of brazing filler topped with a new carbide piece , and
    heat to brazing temp . After watching a couple of youtube videos it
    looks like I may need to hold the new carbide in place as it heats/
    cools , I'll probably use a piece of SS TIG filler for that .

    -a I just realized that I can replace the carbide teeth on the face mill that came with my milling machine . I tried to sharpen the cutters on
    the lathe , turned out less than optimum . If I do that I'll use the indexing device I built for sharpening end mills to sharpen them . Might
    try that to even them up , might turn out I don't need to replace them
    right away .

    -aThoughts on heat source and filler selections ?


    Let us know what you choose, and how it works. Please.
    --
    Bob La Londe
    CNC Molds N Stuff
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jim Wilkins@muratlanne@gmail.com to rec.crafts.metalworking on Wed Feb 18 17:56:29 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

    "Snag" wrote in message news:10n3d2g$2b87p$1@dont-email.me...

    I tried to sharpen the cutters on the lathe , turned out less than optimum
    . If I do that I'll use the indexing device I built for sharpening end
    mills to sharpen them . Might try that to even them up , might turn out I don't need to replace them right away .
    Snag

    My second-hand example of the Baldor clone is good enough for hobby use. https://www.homedepot.com/pep/Grizzly-Industrial-Heavy-Duty-Tool-Grinder-H7762/328192591?

    The alignment and assembly aren't perfect but it's close enough. It had belonged to and got some use at a high-class marine engineering firm.

    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Snag@Snag_one@msn.com to rec.crafts.metalworking on Wed Feb 18 18:59:40 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

    On 2/18/2026 4:56 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    "Snag"-a wrote in message news:10n3d2g$2b87p$1@dont-email.me...

    I tried to sharpen the cutters on the lathe , turned out less than
    optimum . If I do that I'll use the indexing device I built for
    sharpening end mills to sharpen them . Might try that to even them up
    , might turn out I don't need to replace them right away .
    Snag

    My second-hand example of the Baldor clone is good enough for hobby use. https://www.homedepot.com/pep/Grizzly-Industrial-Heavy-Duty-Tool-Grinder-H7762/328192591?


    The alignment and assembly aren't perfect but it's close enough. It had belonged to and got some use at a high-class marine engineering firm.


    I was talking about the block/collet holder I made to hold end mills
    to sharpen the ends . I have some kind of bonded grinding disc that was
    meant for sharpening circular saw blades - I don't know what that stuff
    is but it cut the diamond point that I tried to true it with .
    --
    Snag
    I appreciated foreign cultures more
    when they stayed foreign ...
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jim Wilkins@muratlanne@gmail.com to rec.crafts.metalworking on Wed Feb 18 20:12:24 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

    "Snag" wrote in message news:10n5n9s$34b1t$1@dont-email.me...

    On 2/18/2026 4:56 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

    ... Baldor clone ...

    I was talking about the block/collet holder I made to hold end mills
    to sharpen the ends . I have some kind of bonded grinding disc that was
    meant for sharpening circular saw blades - I don't know what that stuff
    is but it cut the diamond point that I tried to true it with .
    Snag

    ------------------------------
    CBN?

    I do remember them, left and right handed. I made an adapter for mine to
    hold S&D drill bit shanks centered in the 5C collet to be sharpened at the back relief angle setting.

    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Snag@Snag_one@msn.com to rec.crafts.metalworking on Wed Feb 18 19:44:47 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

    On 2/18/2026 7:12 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    "Snag"-a wrote in message news:10n5n9s$34b1t$1@dont-email.me...

    On 2/18/2026 4:56 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

    -a... Baldor clone ...

    -aI was talking about the block/collet holder I made to hold end mills
    to sharpen the ends . I have some kind of bonded grinding disc that was
    meant for sharpening circular saw blades - I don't know what that stuff
    is but it cut the diamond point that I tried to true it with .
    Snag

    ------------------------------
    CBN?

    I do remember them, left and right handed. I made an adapter for mine to hold S&D drill bit shanks centered in the 5C collet to be sharpened at
    the back relief angle setting.


    I don't know , I'll look at the ebay purchase info to see what the
    grind medium is - the closest match I can find is a diamond bonded
    grinding media .
    My fixture has 2 angles on the bottom , cutting edge and back relief
    . The collet holder is indexed for 2 3 4 and 6 flutes . Does a right
    fine job too .
    I did find the carbide cutters I was looking for . I can cut chunks oversize with a diamond blade and grind to final shape after brazing
    them to the shank .
    --
    Snag
    I appreciated foreign cultures more
    when they stayed foreign ...
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jim Wilkins@muratlanne@gmail.com to rec.crafts.metalworking on Thu Feb 19 11:26:49 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

    "Snag" wrote in message news:10n5puf$352vj$1@dont-email.me...

    I did find the carbide cutters I was looking for . I can cut chunks oversize with a diamond blade and grind to final shape after brazing them
    to the shank .
    Snag

    I wonder it it would be simpler to braze the end of the carbide shank to the steel tool and then cut it off, giving you an area out of the flame to
    fixture the carbide securely in place.

    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From David Billington@djb@invalid.com to rec.crafts.metalworking on Thu Feb 19 17:20:41 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

    On 19/02/2026 00:59, Snag wrote:
    On 2/18/2026 4:56 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    "Snag"-a wrote in message news:10n3d2g$2b87p$1@dont-email.me...

    I tried to sharpen the cutters on the lathe , turned out less than
    optimum . If I do that I'll use the indexing device I built for
    sharpening end mills to sharpen them . Might try that to even them
    up , might turn out I don't need to replace them right away .
    Snag

    My second-hand example of the Baldor clone is good enough for hobby use.
    https://www.homedepot.com/pep/Grizzly-Industrial-Heavy-Duty-Tool-Grinder-H7762/328192591?


    The alignment and assembly aren't perfect but it's close enough. It
    had belonged to and got some use at a high-class marine engineering
    firm.


    -aI was talking about the block/collet holder I made to hold end mills
    to sharpen the ends . I have some kind of bonded grinding disc that
    was meant for sharpening circular saw blades - I don't know what that
    stuff is but it cut the diamond point that I tried to true it with .

    I've got a couple of diamond wheels and the one on the machine at the
    moment is a metal matrix diamond wheel and it had been badly worn so the
    face wasn't square due to years of use without truing. I posted here
    probably a couple of decades ago and got a guy that used to run a
    precision grinding shop and he gave me suitable advice for truing it.
    Most of the exchanges ended up being private not on the news feed.
    Basically the bulk of the material was removed using a SiC dressing
    stick to rip back the surface diamonds and then a BN dressing stick to
    clean back further, IIRC that last bit helped remove the matrix around
    the diamonds and get a good new working surface. That said it is a slow process so I didn't completely true it square but far better than when I
    got it.

    I expect using a diamond point will wear the dressing point like
    diamonds are cut and polished on a CI lap with diamond paste.

    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Bob La Londe@none@none.com99 to rec.crafts.metalworking on Thu Feb 19 11:22:07 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

    On 2/18/2026 5:59 PM, Snag wrote:
    On 2/18/2026 4:56 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    "Snag"-a wrote in message news:10n3d2g$2b87p$1@dont-email.me...

    I tried to sharpen the cutters on the lathe , turned out less than
    optimum . If I do that I'll use the indexing device I built for
    sharpening end mills to sharpen them . Might try that to even them
    up , might turn out I don't need to replace them right away .
    Snag

    My second-hand example of the Baldor clone is good enough for hobby use.
    https://www.homedepot.com/pep/Grizzly-Industrial-Heavy-Duty-Tool-
    Grinder-H7762/328192591?

    The alignment and assembly aren't perfect but it's close enough. It
    had belonged to and got some use at a high-class marine engineering firm.


    -aI was talking about the block/collet holder I made to hold end mills
    to sharpen the ends . I have some kind of bonded grinding disc that was meant for sharpening circular saw blades - I don't know what that stuff
    is but it cut the diamond point that I tried to true it with .

    I bought a small diamond cut off wheel that fits on my d-bit grinder.
    since my D-bit grinder has a native 5C tool holder its dead easy (more
    or less) to slice chowdered tips off of carbide end mills. That's
    actually what I bought it for. Converting end mills into side mills.
    LOL.

    Something like that might work for slicing little discs off the than k
    end mills for brazed carbide insert tooling. If you pregrind you can
    get bottom rake, and if you accept some side wear on the wheel you can
    get slight top rake before fully removing the piece from the stock.
    --
    Bob La Londe
    CNC Molds N Stuff
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Bob La Londe@none@none.com99 to rec.crafts.metalworking on Thu Feb 19 11:23:02 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

    On 2/19/2026 9:26 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    "Snag"-a wrote in message news:10n5puf$352vj$1@dont-email.me...

    -a I did find the carbide cutters I was looking for . I can cut chunks
    oversize with a diamond blade and grind to final shape after brazing
    them to the shank .
    Snag

    I wonder it it would be simpler to braze the end of the carbide shank to
    the steel tool and then cut it off, giving you an area out of the flame
    to fixture the carbide securely in place.



    That is an interesting approach.
    --
    Bob La Londe
    CNC Molds N Stuff
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Bob La Londe@none@none.com99 to rec.crafts.metalworking on Fri Feb 20 12:19:12 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

    On 2/17/2026 8:52 PM, Snag wrote:
    -a I'm going to try my hand at brazing new carbide on some chipped and
    worn boring bars for my mill . I have 3 choices for heat source , O/A ,
    TIG , or my induction heater . I also have a couple of choices for braze filler , phosphor bronze TIG filler , regular brazing rod , and silver solder if I can find mine . I also have some brass wire , composition unknown and a few sticks of silphos , though I don't know if that will
    stick to steel . I also have both borax and regular brazing flux .

    -aThe plan is to heat and remove the old/broken insert , apply flux and
    a thin piece of brazing filler topped with a new carbide piece , and
    heat to brazing temp . After watching a couple of youtube videos it
    looks like I may need to hold the new carbide in place as it heats/
    cools , I'll probably use a piece of SS TIG filler for that .

    -a I just realized that I can replace the carbide teeth on the face mill that came with my milling machine . I tried to sharpen the cutters on
    the lathe , turned out less than optimum . If I do that I'll use the indexing device I built for sharpening end mills to sharpen them . Might
    try that to even them up , might turn out I don't need to replace them
    right away .

    -aThoughts on heat source and filler selections ?


    A quick read tells me silver solder 45% silver or higher is considered
    "best".

    Silfos (typically 15) is for copper to copper or copper to bronze. I
    have a couple pieces I used for soldering copper tube on an AC unit.
    Silfos is nice for copper as it is supposed to be self fluxing, making
    out of position work easier in theory. In reality I only got good
    joints on the bench.

    Brass can work, but it doesn't stick to the carbide as well as silver.

    I have a small section of 45% silver solder around somewhere and I can
    tell you it was expensive. I bought it at the a local welding store,
    the better one, that doesn't usually gouge me. It was NOT good enough
    for repairing band saw blades. But there should be no flex in your
    carbide to steel connection. If you want it you know how to reach me,
    to remind me of your address. (If I can find it.)

    There are light fluxes and dark fluxes, and I think those with boron
    (black brazing flux) is best, but borax might be a poor man's
    alternative. They use borax at forging temperatures afterall, (and for
    some heat treating operations) so it probably won't burn off.

    Some I recalled, some I got from an old This Old Tony Video, and some I
    double checked using Goggle's AI search function.
    --
    Bob La Londe
    CNC Molds N Stuff
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jim Wilkins@muratlanne@gmail.com to rec.crafts.metalworking on Fri Feb 20 17:17:49 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

    "Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:10nac3h$ld39$1@dont-email.me...

    Silfos (typically 15) is for copper to copper or copper to bronze. I
    have a couple pieces I used for soldering copper tube on an AC unit.
    Silfos is nice for copper as it is supposed to be self fluxing, making
    out of position work easier in theory. In reality I only got good
    joints on the bench.
    --------------------------------

    On steel Silfos forms brittle iron phosphide that weakens the joint.

    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Snag@Snag_one@msn.com to rec.crafts.metalworking on Fri Feb 20 22:26:00 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

    On 2/20/2026 1:19 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
    On 2/17/2026 8:52 PM, Snag wrote:
    -a-a I'm going to try my hand at brazing new carbide on some chipped and
    worn boring bars for my mill . I have 3 choices for heat source , O/A
    , TIG , or my induction heater . I also have a couple of choices for
    braze filler , phosphor bronze TIG filler , regular brazing rod , and
    silver solder if I can find mine . I also have some brass wire ,
    composition unknown and a few sticks of silphos , though I don't know
    if that will stick to steel . I also have both borax and regular
    brazing flux .

    -a-aThe plan is to heat and remove the old/broken insert , apply flux
    and a thin piece of brazing filler topped with a new carbide piece ,
    and heat to brazing temp . After watching a couple of youtube videos
    it looks like I may need to hold the new carbide in place as it heats/
    cools , I'll probably use a piece of SS TIG filler for that .

    -a-a I just realized that I can replace the carbide teeth on the face
    mill that came with my milling machine . I tried to sharpen the
    cutters on the lathe , turned out less than optimum . If I do that
    I'll use the indexing device I built for sharpening end mills to
    sharpen them . Might try that to even them up , might turn out I don't
    need to replace them right away .

    -a-aThoughts on heat source and filler selections ?


    A quick read tells me silver solder 45% silver or higher is considered "best".

    Silfos (typically 15) is for copper to copper or copper to bronze.-a I
    have a couple pieces I used for soldering copper tube on an AC unit.
    Silfos is nice for copper as it is supposed to be self fluxing, making
    out of position work easier in theory.-a In reality I only got good
    joints on the bench.

    Brass can work, but it doesn't stick to the carbide as well as silver.

    I have a small section of 45% silver solder around somewhere and I can
    tell you it was expensive.-a I bought it at the a local welding store,
    the better one, that doesn't usually gouge me.-a It was NOT good enough
    for repairing band saw blades.-a But there should be no flex in your
    carbide to steel connection.-a If you want it you know how to reach me,
    to remind me of your address.-a (If I can find it.)

    There are light fluxes and dark fluxes, and I think those with boron
    (black brazing flux) is best, but borax might be a poor man's
    alternative.-a They use borax at forging temperatures afterall, (and for some heat treating operations) so it probably won't burn off.

    Some I recalled, some I got from an old This Old Tony Video, and some I double checked using Goggle's AI search function.




    I have some silver solder I bought expressly for repairing/making
    bandsaw blades . Haven't seen it in several years ... I'll look into
    getting some more (*wallet gonna take a hit) as well as some black flux
    . There's no rush , this is one of those "one of these days when I get a
    wild hare" projects .
    OK just ordered some 47% silver solder (old stuff with cadmium) and
    some black flux . Bet y'all a nickel the solver solder I already have
    shows up before the stuff I just ordered arrives ... the damn flux cost
    twice what the silver solder (10 feet of .016/26 ga wire) cost , but I'd
    bet it's more than a lifetime supply for me in both cases .
    *I don't worry too much about cost these days . My wants/needs are
    simple and for the most part well under a hundred bucks . About the only
    thing I run past the wife (got one of the rare "good ones") is guns or
    tools over a couple hundred .
    --
    Snag
    I appreciated foreign cultures more
    when they stayed foreign ...
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Snag@Snag_one@msn.com to rec.crafts.metalworking on Fri Feb 20 22:36:07 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

    On 2/20/2026 4:17 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    "Bob La Londe"-a wrote in message news:10nac3h$ld39$1@dont-email.me...
    Silfos (typically 15) is for copper to copper or copper to bronze.-a I
    have a couple pieces I used for soldering copper tube on an AC unit.
    Silfos is nice for copper as it is supposed to be self fluxing, making
    out of position work easier in theory.-a In reality I only got good
    joints on the bench.
    --------------------------------

    On steel Silfos forms brittle iron phosphide that weakens the joint.

    I wasn't planning on using it , just tossed in the fact that I have
    some ... got it at a yard sale for about 10% of it's value . I love yard
    sales even more than my wife does !
    --
    Snag
    I appreciated foreign cultures more
    when they stayed foreign ...
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jim Wilkins@muratlanne@gmail.com to rec.crafts.metalworking on Sat Feb 21 07:12:09 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

    "Snag" wrote in message news:10nbcnm$vmrn$1@dont-email.me...

    On 2/20/2026 4:17 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    On steel Silfos forms brittle iron phosphide that weakens the joint.

    I wasn't planning on using it , just tossed in the fact that I have
    some ... got it at a yard sale for about 10% of it's value . I love yard
    sales even more than my wife does !
    Snag

    ----------------------

    I acquired mine similarly cheaply at a flea market. The price of Silver is bouncing around $80 per Troy ounce of 31.10 grams after peaking over $100. A standard ounce is 28.35 grams, a pound is 453.6g. Thus a pound of Silfos contains $175 +/- in Silver.

    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From David Billington@djb@invalid.com to rec.crafts.metalworking on Sat Feb 21 14:20:58 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

    On 20/02/2026 19:19, Bob La Londe wrote:
    On 2/17/2026 8:52 PM, Snag wrote:
    -a-a I'm going to try my hand at brazing new carbide on some chipped
    and worn boring bars for my mill . I have 3 choices for heat source ,
    O/A , TIG , or my induction heater . I also have a couple of choices
    for braze filler , phosphor bronze TIG filler , regular brazing rod ,
    and silver solder if I can find mine . I also have some brass wire ,
    composition unknown and a few sticks of silphos , though I don't know
    if that will stick to steel . I also have both borax and regular
    brazing flux .

    -a-aThe plan is to heat and remove the old/broken insert , apply flux
    and a thin piece of brazing filler topped with a new carbide piece ,
    and heat to brazing temp . After watching a couple of youtube videos
    it looks like I may need to hold the new carbide in place as it
    heats/ cools , I'll probably use a piece of SS TIG filler for that .

    -a-a I just realized that I can replace the carbide teeth on the face
    mill that came with my milling machine . I tried to sharpen the
    cutters on the lathe , turned out less than optimum . If I do that
    I'll use the indexing device I built for sharpening end mills to
    sharpen them . Might try that to even them up , might turn out I
    don't need to replace them right away .

    -a-aThoughts on heat source and filler selections ?


    A quick read tells me silver solder 45% silver or higher is considered "best".

    Silfos (typically 15) is for copper to copper or copper to bronze.-a I
    have a couple pieces I used for soldering copper tube on an AC unit.
    Silfos is nice for copper as it is supposed to be self fluxing, making
    out of position work easier in theory.-a In reality I only got good
    joints on the bench.

    Brass can work, but it doesn't stick to the carbide as well as silver.

    I have a small section of 45% silver solder around somewhere and I can
    tell you it was expensive.-a I bought it at the a local welding store,
    the better one, that doesn't usually gouge me.-a It was NOT good enough
    for repairing band saw blades.-a But there should be no flex in your
    carbide to steel connection.-a If you want it you know how to reach me,
    to remind me of your address.-a (If I can find it.)

    There are light fluxes and dark fluxes, and I think those with boron
    (black brazing flux) is best, but borax might be a poor man's
    alternative.-a They use borax at forging temperatures afterall, (and
    for some heat treating operations) so it probably won't burn off.

    Some I recalled, some I got from an old This Old Tony Video, and some
    I double checked using Goggle's AI search function.



    I wonder what makes the black flux black as both borax and boric acid
    are white crystalline solids at room temperature, I have both. I have
    had brazing flux for brass filler which was pink in the jar, worked fine pretty colour. Boric acid AFAIK is what is used in gas fluxers often
    used by those that produce fillet brazed frames and gives the flame a
    green tinge, IIRC the fuel gas is bubbled through the boric acid
    solution so some is entrained and gives a continuous shield with no
    solid flux addition required in the joint. I tried a mix I found online
    which called for them as part of a recipe for preventing/reducing
    firescale on steel during heat treatment and it didn't seem to work very
    well, subsequently I got some Condursal Z1100 and that seems to work
    well, cost more but does what it says on the tin.

    Some years ago a skilled blacksmith I know was in contact with some
    smiths in the US and they raved about some miracle flux they could get
    your side of the pond but the suppliers wouldn't ship it here. Pre 9/11
    one of them travelled to the UK and brought some in his luggage and when
    the guy I knew tried it he wondered what all the fuss was about as in
    his experience it was no better than the borax he and others had been
    using for hundreds or more years for forge welding.

    I do know from experience that the silver solder flux I have for tool
    tips and stainless works better for those materials than the standard
    flux for steel/brass/copper/bronze etc on stainless.

    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jim Wilkins@muratlanne@gmail.com to rec.crafts.metalworking on Sat Feb 21 12:48:56 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

    "David Billington" wrote in message news:10ncf0a$17n49$1@dont-email.me...

    ...I tried a mix I found online
    which called for them as part of a recipe for preventing/reducing
    firescale on steel during heat treatment and it didn't seem to work very
    well, subsequently I got some Condursal Z1100 and that seems to work
    well, cost more but does what it says on the tin.
    -------------

    Natural sodium stearate soap (Ivory) works pretty well in combination with a closed tube containing charcoal or sawdust.


    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From David Billington@djb@invalid.com to rec.crafts.metalworking on Sat Feb 21 18:29:56 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

    On 21/02/2026 17:48, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    "David Billington"-a wrote in message
    news:10ncf0a$17n49$1@dont-email.me...

    ...I tried a mix I found online
    which called for them as part of a recipe for preventing/reducing
    firescale on steel during heat treatment and it didn't seem to work very well, subsequently I got some Condursal Z1100 and that seems to work
    well, cost more but does what it says on the tin.
    -------------

    Natural sodium stearate soap (Ivory) works pretty well in combination
    with a closed tube containing charcoal or sawdust.


    Yes my other option is stainless tool wrapping foil which I use for some
    items when tempering/normalising and include some wood inside to
    scavenge the oxygen remaining which results in just minor discolouration
    like from tempering, no scale. The Condursal was for use with items to
    be hardened so I could drop them straight into the quench tank without
    having to remove the foil.

    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jim Wilkins@muratlanne@gmail.com to rec.crafts.metalworking on Sat Feb 21 16:31:19 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

    "David Billington" wrote in message news:10nctj4$17n49$2@dont-email.me...

    On 21/02/2026 17:48, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    "David Billington" wrote in message news:10ncf0a$17n49$1@dont-email.me...

    ...I tried a mix I found online
    which called for them as part of a recipe for preventing/reducing
    firescale on steel during heat treatment and it didn't seem to work very well, subsequently I got some Condursal Z1100 and that seems to work
    well, cost more but does what it says on the tin.
    -------------

    Natural sodium stearate soap (Ivory) works pretty well in combination with
    a closed tube containing charcoal or sawdust.


    Yes my other option is stainless tool wrapping foil which I use for some
    items when tempering/normalising and include some wood inside to
    scavenge the oxygen remaining which results in just minor discolouration
    like from tempering, no scale. The Condursal was for use with items to
    be hardened so I could drop them straight into the quench tank without
    having to remove the foil.

    ---------------------------------

    I have some of that foil too and use it sparingly on longer items. Short
    tools go in a soup/vegetable can with the lid not completely removed, so the tool can be extracted with tongs or shaken out above the quench, which if
    oil is in the door opening of the wood stove.

    A can on its side with a floor of charcoal contains a propane torch flame
    well enough to evenly heat a tool larger than it could in free air. The burning charcoal contributes a lot of distributed infrared. The flame needs
    to swirl inside the can and have a place to exit, straight in doesn't work
    so well.

    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From David Billington@djb@invalid.com to rec.crafts.metalworking on Sun Feb 22 14:22:21 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

    On 21/02/2026 21:31, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    "David Billington"-a wrote in message
    news:10nctj4$17n49$2@dont-email.me...

    On 21/02/2026 17:48, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    "David Billington"-a wrote in message
    news:10ncf0a$17n49$1@dont-email.me...

    ...I tried a mix I found online
    which called for them as part of a recipe for preventing/reducing
    firescale on steel during heat treatment and it didn't seem to work very
    well, subsequently I got some Condursal Z1100 and that seems to work
    well, cost more but does what it says on the tin.
    -------------

    Natural sodium stearate soap (Ivory) works pretty well in combination
    with a closed tube containing charcoal or sawdust.


    Yes my other option is stainless tool wrapping foil which I use for some items when tempering/normalising and include some wood inside to
    scavenge the oxygen remaining which results in just minor discolouration
    like from tempering, no scale. The Condursal was for use with items to
    be hardened so I could drop them straight into the quench tank without
    having to remove the foil.

    ---------------------------------

    I have some of that foil too and use it sparingly on longer items.
    Short tools go in a soup/vegetable can with the lid not completely
    removed, so the tool can be extracted with tongs or shaken out above
    the quench, which if oil is in the door opening of the wood stove.

    A can on its side with a floor of charcoal contains a propane torch
    flame well enough to evenly heat a tool larger than it could in free
    air. The burning charcoal contributes a lot of distributed infrared.
    The flame needs to swirl inside the can and have a place to exit,
    straight in doesn't work so well.

    I've got a small Gallenkamp Hotspot kiln bought for enamelling but good
    for heat treat as it'll go to about 1050C, and a 18" top loader ceramic
    kiln which gets used for larger pieces such as normalising CRS when
    required. Both are controlled with PID controllers with thermocouples
    which are added on and the kilns plug into them and the power controller
    set to 100%. One is just ramp/soak the other can take more complex heat/soak/cool if required.

    The oil quench tank is made from a truck air receiver with the end cut
    off which forms a lid and can be closed if required such as if the oil
    caught fire which it hasn't so far. That is heated with a metal sheathed mineral insulated electric element and controlled with a cheap (-u15?)
    mains thermistor controller with the thermistor and exposed lead in a SS sheath to protect it from the hot oil. I remember an episode of 'Forged
    in Fire' where a guy set his workshop on fire after leaving his quench
    tank to heat on an open flame heater and it caught fire when the oil
    expanded and overflowed, I don't want to go there.

    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jim Wilkins@muratlanne@gmail.com to rec.crafts.metalworking on Sun Feb 22 12:30:55 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

    "David Billington" wrote in message news:10nf3et$24dkv$1@dont-email.me...

    I've got a small Gallenkamp Hotspot kiln bought for enamelling but good
    for heat treat as it'll go to about 1050C, and a 18" top loader ceramic
    kiln which gets used for larger pieces such as normalising CRS when
    required. Both are controlled with PID controllers with thermocouples
    which are added on and the kilns plug into them and the power controller
    set to 100%. One is just ramp/soak the other can take more complex heat/soak/cool if required.

    ------------------------------------------

    That's a better approach with more control.

    My enameling kiln draws 2 KW and in an hour would double my average daily electricity use. I try to avoid consuming that much unless there's no alternative (lathe, mill) and use my stock of free firewood instead, trying
    to develop skill in the old methods on uncritical hobby jobs.

    I bought this model of tube furnace minus the controller for about 1% of
    this price. It draws around 500W warming up and heats the small volume quickly, then its thick insulation holds at low duty cycle. https://cbisurplus.com/product/lindberg-54233-59545-type-54233-1500aoc-heavy-duty-tube-furnace-w-59545-control-console/

    The 50mm tube is meant to be Pyrex, I have car exhaust pipe and stainless flange-end sanitary (brewing) tubing for it, if necessary the tube could be evacuated or filled with inert gas. The size was good for tempering a long narrow froe blade of 5160 at 175C, twice for an hour each. I intended it for custom long drills and reamers.

    Its thermocouples are Type P (Platinel), a near but not exact match to type
    K. My on/off controller doesn't have a P setting so I read temperature with
    a Type K alarm indicator that does. This gear is all from auctions or flea markets and often needed some repair or fiddling to work right. Reseating
    the socketed ICs fixed the 'broken' 5 channel Type K readout that monitors
    my wood stove from the kitchen.


    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From David Billington@djb@invalid.com to rec.crafts.metalworking on Mon Feb 23 20:07:07 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

    On 22/02/2026 17:30, Jim Wilkins wrote:
    "David Billington"-a wrote in message
    news:10nf3et$24dkv$1@dont-email.me...

    I've got a small Gallenkamp Hotspot kiln bought for enamelling but good
    for heat treat as it'll go to about 1050C, and a 18" top loader ceramic
    kiln which gets used for larger pieces such as normalising CRS when
    required. Both are controlled with PID controllers with thermocouples
    which are added on and the kilns plug into them and the power controller
    set to 100%. One is just ramp/soak the other can take more complex heat/soak/cool if required.

    ------------------------------------------

    That's a better approach with more control.

    My enameling kiln draws 2 KW and in an hour would double my average
    daily electricity use. I try to avoid consuming that much unless
    there's no alternative (lathe, mill) and use my stock of free firewood instead, trying to develop skill in the old methods on uncritical
    hobby jobs.

    I bought this model of tube furnace minus the controller for about 1%
    of this price. It draws around 500W warming up and heats the small
    volume quickly, then its thick insulation holds at low duty cycle. https://cbisurplus.com/product/lindberg-54233-59545-type-54233-1500aoc-heavy-duty-tube-furnace-w-59545-control-console/


    The 50mm tube is meant to be Pyrex, I have car exhaust pipe and
    stainless flange-end sanitary (brewing) tubing for it, if necessary
    the tube could be evacuated or filled with inert gas. The size was
    good for tempering a long narrow froe blade of 5160 at 175C, twice for
    an hour each. I intended it for custom long drills and reamers.

    Its thermocouples are Type P (Platinel), a near but not exact match to
    type K. My on/off controller doesn't have a P setting so I read
    temperature with a Type K alarm indicator that does. This gear is all
    from auctions or flea markets and often needed some repair or fiddling
    to work right. Reseating the socketed ICs fixed the 'broken' 5 channel
    Type K readout that monitors my wood stove from the kitchen.


    It occurred to me when I was posting that last reply that you have to
    deal with your electrical energy budget issues and that might make you
    favour a different solution if available, not something I have to think
    about so much with a 240V 32A supply in the workshop, more in the house.

    Looks to be a nice furnace but what you have must be a lower temperature model. 1500C would likely be a Mullite liner and SiC elements. AIUI SiC
    are fairly easy to control with a phase angle controller and take care
    of the change in resistance while heating and element ageing.-a MoSi2-a elements get more involved due to their characteristics-a but not
    required for 1500C usage.

    I'd not heard of type P before as never run across one. Here in the
    UK/Europe R and S are common for higher temperature applications, it
    seems often US made stuff uses larger gauge K type to provide longer
    life at elevated temperatures. For the Gallenkamp I use a K, the other
    furnace I have an N type as more durable at the higher temperatures I
    may have been using as that one goes to 1300C or would do if I replaced
    the elements as they're old but it does what I require currently and
    will make 1100C if needed.

    Reseating socketed chips is one I use as well. I've saved a woman I know
    quite a bit of money as when one of her temperature controllers gave a thermocouple failure alarm I asked if she had pulled the guts and
    reseated them, she wasn't aware you could do so RTFM. Others offered to
    sell her a replacement. The Cal Controls ones I and she use and maybe
    other makes allow the guts to be pulled from the panel mounting which
    wipes the contacts and they had just become oxidised as only solder
    coated so that was all that was required to get it working again, it's
    now part of her yearly service routine. I've seen banks of them on
    plastic extruder lines so the ability to hot swap the controller guts is useful, saves having to pull the panel apart. IIRC those were on RS485
    so the settings could be re-established remotely.

    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jim Wilkins@muratlanne@gmail.com to rec.crafts.metalworking on Mon Feb 23 23:08:31 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.crafts.metalworking

    "David Billington" wrote in message news:10nic1b$39582$1@dont-email.me...

    It occurred to me when I was posting that last reply that you have to
    deal with your electrical energy budget issues and that might make you
    favour a different solution if available, not something I have to think
    about so much with a 240V 32A supply in the workshop, more in the house.

    Looks to be a nice furnace but what you have must be a lower temperature
    model. 1500C would likely be a Mullite liner and SiC elements. AIUI SiC
    are fairly easy to control with a phase angle controller and take care
    of the change in resistance while heating and element ageing. MoSi2
    elements get more involved due to their characteristics but not
    required for 1500C usage.

    I'd not heard of type P before as never run across one. Here in the
    UK/Europe R and S are common for higher temperature applications, it
    seems often US made stuff uses larger gauge K type to provide longer
    life at elevated temperatures. For the Gallenkamp I use a K, the other
    furnace I have an N type as more durable at the higher temperatures I
    may have been using as that one goes to 1300C or would do if I replaced
    the elements as they're old but it does what I require currently and
    will make 1100C if needed.

    Reseating socketed chips is one I use as well. I've saved a woman I know
    quite a bit of money as when one of her temperature controllers gave a thermocouple failure alarm I asked if she had pulled the guts and
    reseated them, she wasn't aware you could do so RTFM. Others offered to
    sell her a replacement. The Cal Controls ones I and she use and maybe
    other makes allow the guts to be pulled from the panel mounting which
    wipes the contacts and they had just become oxidised as only solder
    coated so that was all that was required to get it working again, it's
    now part of her yearly service routine. I've seen banks of them on
    plastic extruder lines so the ability to hot swap the controller guts is useful, saves having to pull the panel apart. IIRC those were on RS485
    so the settings could be re-established remotely.

    ---------------------------
    I have 200A at 120/240V available if I want to pay for it, this house was built with electric heat for the promised cheap nuclear power we would soon enjoy. My retirement hobby is alternate energy and I practice living on it
    as much as is reasonable, and recording the usage.

    The tube furnace may be the lower temperature model, labels are gone. I grabbed the first picture I saw. The missing original controller was apparently analog with optical sensing of the needle, and calibrated for
    type K, so the P t/c is a close but not exact match. Like much of my stuff it's from the 1960's.

    All my (second-hand) industrial temperature controllers can be removed from the panel mount, mostly to change switch settings such as t/c type. I use
    some as remote displays of the wood stove. The surplus store sold regular
    wire cheaply by the pound, t/c wire expensively by the foot. When I
    explained that the X meant extension wire not suited for making
    thermocouples they gave me the per pound price on several large spools of shielded and grounded KX which isn't good for much else, and I ran it around the house.

    Omega literature suggests using 14 gauge type K for longer life at high temperature. I think R and S are more for short runs within the instrument
    in the lab.

    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2