• Another spoke question

    From bp@bp@www.zefox.net to rec.bicycles.tech on Tue Feb 10 23:14:33 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    While fitting new tires to my grocery chaser I noticed that a few
    spokes were loose enough to rattle. At the time I didn't want to
    tackle a wheel truing project, so I just tightened them enough to
    stop the rattle and put the tires on. Finding the loose spokes was
    a considerable surprise, since the wheels looked straight within a
    millimeter or so.

    Now the tires have proven very satisfactory and the clearance troubles
    are as good as they're going to get, which is to say there's not a
    gnat's wisker to spare, but they don't rub (hard enough to matter).

    Meanwhile the wheels are still reasonably true, having never been
    touched since the bike was purchased new in 2007. My suspicion is
    that tightening the one or two rattly spokes to match the rest will
    drastically upset the truing, since it's pretty good now.

    Is that a reasonable notion, or am I mistaken? IIRC the loose spokes
    aren't adjacent. If it is reasonable I'll put off any further work
    until there's ample time for it. I'd like to tighten spokes correctly
    but don't want to untimely open a large can of worms.

    Thanks for reading, and any guidance.

    bob prohaska

    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From AMuzi@am@yellowjersey.org to rec.bicycles.tech on Tue Feb 10 17:38:31 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On 2/10/2026 5:14 PM, bp@www.zefox.net wrote:
    While fitting new tires to my grocery chaser I noticed that a few
    spokes were loose enough to rattle. At the time I didn't want to
    tackle a wheel truing project, so I just tightened them enough to
    stop the rattle and put the tires on. Finding the loose spokes was
    a considerable surprise, since the wheels looked straight within a
    millimeter or so.

    Now the tires have proven very satisfactory and the clearance troubles
    are as good as they're going to get, which is to say there's not a
    gnat's wisker to spare, but they don't rub (hard enough to matter).

    Meanwhile the wheels are still reasonably true, having never been
    touched since the bike was purchased new in 2007. My suspicion is
    that tightening the one or two rattly spokes to match the rest will drastically upset the truing, since it's pretty good now.

    Is that a reasonable notion, or am I mistaken? IIRC the loose spokes
    aren't adjacent. If it is reasonable I'll put off any further work
    until there's ample time for it. I'd like to tighten spokes correctly
    but don't want to untimely open a large can of worms.

    Thanks for reading, and any guidance.

    bob prohaska


    A new wheel has even spoke tension all around with very
    small variance while being both round and straight in one
    plane as well as being centered in the frame.

    After the normal vicissitudes of actually riding, small rim
    deformations begin to degrade that structure. As Mr Brandt
    pointed out frequently, spokes can loosen but spokes cannot
    tighten from riding. That means a broken spoke (where load
    had exceeded tensile strength) bore higher loads because
    either other spokes were not or because rim deformation has
    concentrated load at that spoke.

    For your wheel, a tensiometer would be a big help. Failing
    that, grasp pairs of spokes in your hand, flex, and compare
    to a known good wheel for a rough approximation. It's likely
    loose overall. Ensure the rim is round and then bring up
    the tension a turn or even a half turn at a time all around.
    The flopping spokes are not doing anything useful and a
    higher more even tension will greatly improve the wheel's
    overall strength and durability.
    --
    Andrew Muzi
    am@yellowjersey.org
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From bp@bp@www.zefox.net to rec.bicycles.tech on Wed Feb 11 03:37:29 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
    On 2/10/2026 5:14 PM, bp@www.zefox.net wrote:
    While fitting new tires to my grocery chaser I noticed that a few
    spokes were loose enough to rattle. At the time I didn't want to
    tackle a wheel truing project, so I just tightened them enough to
    stop the rattle and put the tires on. Finding the loose spokes was
    a considerable surprise, since the wheels looked straight within a
    millimeter or so.

    Now the tires have proven very satisfactory and the clearance troubles
    are as good as they're going to get, which is to say there's not a
    gnat's wisker to spare, but they don't rub (hard enough to matter).

    Meanwhile the wheels are still reasonably true, having never been
    touched since the bike was purchased new in 2007. My suspicion is
    that tightening the one or two rattly spokes to match the rest will
    drastically upset the truing, since it's pretty good now.

    Is that a reasonable notion, or am I mistaken? IIRC the loose spokes
    aren't adjacent. If it is reasonable I'll put off any further work
    until there's ample time for it. I'd like to tighten spokes correctly
    but don't want to untimely open a large can of worms.

    Thanks for reading, and any guidance.

    bob prohaska


    A new wheel has even spoke tension all around with very
    small variance while being both round and straight in one
    plane as well as being centered in the frame.

    After the normal vicissitudes of actually riding, small rim
    deformations begin to degrade that structure. As Mr Brandt
    pointed out frequently, spokes can loosen but spokes cannot
    tighten from riding. That means a broken spoke (where load
    had exceeded tensile strength) bore higher loads because
    either other spokes were not or because rim deformation has
    concentrated load at that spoke.

    For your wheel, a tensiometer would be a big help. Failing
    that, grasp pairs of spokes in your hand, flex, and compare
    to a known good wheel for a rough approximation. It's likely
    loose overall. Ensure the rim is round and then bring up
    the tension a turn or even a half turn at a time all around.
    The flopping spokes are not doing anything useful and a
    higher more even tension will greatly improve the wheel's
    overall strength and durability.

    It sounds like I'd better be prepared to do a truing stand
    session with a dial indicator, not a quick eyeball-and-ear
    adjustment in the frame....

    Thanks for writing!

    bob prohaska

    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From AMuzi@am@yellowjersey.org to rec.bicycles.tech on Wed Feb 11 08:01:12 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On 2/10/2026 9:37 PM, bp@www.zefox.net wrote:
    AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
    On 2/10/2026 5:14 PM, bp@www.zefox.net wrote:
    While fitting new tires to my grocery chaser I noticed that a few
    spokes were loose enough to rattle. At the time I didn't want to
    tackle a wheel truing project, so I just tightened them enough to
    stop the rattle and put the tires on. Finding the loose spokes was
    a considerable surprise, since the wheels looked straight within a
    millimeter or so.

    Now the tires have proven very satisfactory and the clearance troubles
    are as good as they're going to get, which is to say there's not a
    gnat's wisker to spare, but they don't rub (hard enough to matter).

    Meanwhile the wheels are still reasonably true, having never been
    touched since the bike was purchased new in 2007. My suspicion is
    that tightening the one or two rattly spokes to match the rest will
    drastically upset the truing, since it's pretty good now.

    Is that a reasonable notion, or am I mistaken? IIRC the loose spokes
    aren't adjacent. If it is reasonable I'll put off any further work
    until there's ample time for it. I'd like to tighten spokes correctly
    but don't want to untimely open a large can of worms.

    Thanks for reading, and any guidance.

    bob prohaska


    A new wheel has even spoke tension all around with very
    small variance while being both round and straight in one
    plane as well as being centered in the frame.

    After the normal vicissitudes of actually riding, small rim
    deformations begin to degrade that structure. As Mr Brandt
    pointed out frequently, spokes can loosen but spokes cannot
    tighten from riding. That means a broken spoke (where load
    had exceeded tensile strength) bore higher loads because
    either other spokes were not or because rim deformation has
    concentrated load at that spoke.

    For your wheel, a tensiometer would be a big help. Failing
    that, grasp pairs of spokes in your hand, flex, and compare
    to a known good wheel for a rough approximation. It's likely
    loose overall. Ensure the rim is round and then bring up
    the tension a turn or even a half turn at a time all around.
    The flopping spokes are not doing anything useful and a
    higher more even tension will greatly improve the wheel's
    overall strength and durability.

    It sounds like I'd better be prepared to do a truing stand
    session with a dial indicator, not a quick eyeball-and-ear
    adjustment in the frame....

    Thanks for writing!

    bob prohaska


    There's no quality difference from redoing a wheel in the
    bike and the same job in a truing fixture. Convenience and
    clarity are important when you're doing this all day long
    but for one wheel the setup isn't as critical as good
    observation and patience.
    --
    Andrew Muzi
    am@yellowjersey.org
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From bp@bp@www.zefox.net to rec.bicycles.tech on Thu Feb 12 14:44:55 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

    There's no quality difference from redoing a wheel in the
    bike and the same job in a truing fixture. Convenience and
    clarity are important when you're doing this all day long
    but for one wheel the setup isn't as critical as good
    observation and patience.


    But, there's a close correlation between quality of observation
    and having the wheel in a comfortable position with a quantitative
    deflection measurement. When I started using a dial indicator to
    show deflection on a wheel mounted on the bench the adjustments
    converged faster. It's hard to mount an indicator on a bike frame,
    at least the indicator I have.

    Being out of practice doesn't help, either. I true a wheel maybe
    once every two or three years, at most. It's very easy to fall
    into an oscillatory pattern of overcorrection. A dial indicator
    helps greatly to detect that sort of error.

    Thanks for writing!

    bob prohaska
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From AMuzi@am@yellowjersey.org to rec.bicycles.tech on Thu Feb 12 09:19:56 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On 2/12/2026 8:44 AM, bp@www.zefox.net wrote:
    AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

    There's no quality difference from redoing a wheel in the
    bike and the same job in a truing fixture. Convenience and
    clarity are important when you're doing this all day long
    but for one wheel the setup isn't as critical as good
    observation and patience.


    But, there's a close correlation between quality of observation
    and having the wheel in a comfortable position with a quantitative
    deflection measurement. When I started using a dial indicator to
    show deflection on a wheel mounted on the bench the adjustments
    converged faster. It's hard to mount an indicator on a bike frame,
    at least the indicator I have.

    Being out of practice doesn't help, either. I true a wheel maybe
    once every two or three years, at most. It's very easy to fall
    into an oscillatory pattern of overcorrection. A dial indicator
    helps greatly to detect that sort of error.

    Thanks for writing!

    bob prohaska

    Yes that's true both for dial indicators and total time of
    experience.

    That said, I have trued a lot of wheels by the side of the
    road or such, in an upside down bike, feeling the rim with
    my thumb on a brake pad.
    --
    Andrew Muzi
    am@yellowjersey.org
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2