To quote Mayor Eric Adams, o8 million New Yorkers, 35
million opinions, and a new challenge every day? I love it.o
Today's example: >https://bikerumor.com/dear-bike-industry-please-dont-take-away-my-high-end-mechanical-drivetrains/
The reader comments are nearly unending
On Mon, 26 Jan 2026 17:32:35 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:I'm not interested in dreaded electronic shifters. Give me coil spring
To quote Mayor Eric Adams, rCL8 million New Yorkers, 35
million opinions, and a new challenge every day? I love it.rCY
Today's example:
https://bikerumor.com/dear-bike-industry-please-dont-take-away-my-high-end-mechanical-drivetrains/
The reader comments are nearly unending
The article is mostly FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt). Replacing
batteries, dealing with firmware versions, smartphone aging, etc are
hardly new to today's tech buyers. I'm sure there are mechanical die
hards, who might ask for coil spring powered wind-up shifters instead
of the dreaded electronic shifters, but I haven't met any (yet).
On Mon, 26 Jan 2026 17:32:35 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
To quote Mayor Eric Adams, rCL8 million New Yorkers, 35
million opinions, and a new challenge every day? I love it.rCY
Today's example:
https://bikerumor.com/dear-bike-industry-please-dont-take-away-my-high-end-mechanical-drivetrains/
The reader comments are nearly unending
The article is mostly FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt).
Replacing
batteries, dealing with firmware versions, smartphone aging, etc are
hardly new to today's tech buyers.
I'm sure there are mechanical die
hards, who might ask for coil spring powered wind-up shifters instead
of the dreaded electronic shifters, but I haven't met any (yet).
The author also proclaims:
"Yes, yourCOll never have to dial-adjust tune the derailleur as your
cables stretch..."
which is easily avoided by using genuine Campy non-stretch cables.
02/02/2022 <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/hE70fWkwt6E/m/LGCH-_r_AAAJ> "...chain skipping on the Campy 10 speeds is a common problem until
Campy started building special non-stretch cables."
Could it be that the author reads Tom's postings in RBT?
On 1/26/2026 9:44 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jan 2026 17:32:35 -0600, AMuzi
<am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
To quote Mayor Eric Adams, rCL8 million New Yorkers, 35
million opinions, and a new challenge every day? I love it.rCY
Today's example:
https://bikerumor.com/dear-bike-industry-please-dont-
take-away-my-high-end-mechanical-drivetrains/
The reader comments are nearly unending
The article is mostly FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt).
I disagree. The author seems to have weighed his options
rather carefully with the advantage of actually ridden with
electronic systems. I agree with his conclusions
wholeheartedly.
-aReplacing
batteries, dealing with firmware versions, smartphone
aging, etc are
hardly new to today's tech buyers.
Which doesn't make it better. Which would you prefer -
getting on your bike to find out the battery is dead, then
replacing the battery to find out app no longer works, then
trying to upgrade the app and finding out your phones OS
needs updating, then finding out your phone isn't compatible
with the New OS, or just giving your derailleur adjustment
screw a 1/4 turn to silence some chatter?
I know there is at least one member of this forum that
prefers the former - which is fine for him, but I'll stay
feral.
I'm sure there are mechanical die
hards, who might ask for coil spring powered wind-up
shifters instead
of the dreaded electronic shifters, but I haven't met any
(yet).
One thing the author didn't mention is battery performance
across temperature. In the cold it drops off rather
dramatically, or leave the bike out in the hot sun or in the
back of the car for a while and the effects of solar loading
are equally detrimental.
The author also proclaims:
"Yes, yourCOll never have to dial-adjust tune the derailleur
as your
cables stretch..."
which is easily avoided by using genuine Campy non-stretch
cables.
02/02/2022
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/
hE70fWkwt6E/m/LGCH-_r_AAAJ>
"...chain skipping on the Campy 10 speeds is a common
problem until
Campy started building special non-stretch cables."
Don't forget when he was called out on it by a bike shop
owner with over 50 years experience stating that cables
don't stretch, he suggested said bike shop owner must have
his own cable stretching process before building a new bike.
Could it be that the author reads Tom's postings in RBT?
I shudder to think of it.
On 1/27/2026 5:57 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 1/26/2026 9:44 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jan 2026 17:32:35 -0600, AMuzi
<am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
To quote Mayor Eric Adams, o8 million New Yorkers, 35
million opinions, and a new challenge every day? I love it.o
Today's example:
https://bikerumor.com/dear-bike-industry-please-dont-
take-away-my-high-end-mechanical-drivetrains/
The reader comments are nearly unending
The article is mostly FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt).
I disagree. The author seems to have weighed his options
rather carefully with the advantage of actually ridden with
electronic systems. I agree with his conclusions
wholeheartedly.
aReplacing
batteries, dealing with firmware versions, smartphone
aging, etc are
hardly new to today's tech buyers.
Which doesn't make it better. Which would you prefer -
getting on your bike to find out the battery is dead, then
replacing the battery to find out app no longer works, then
trying to upgrade the app and finding out your phones OS
needs updating, then finding out your phone isn't compatible
with the New OS, or just giving your derailleur adjustment
screw a 1/4 turn to silence some chatter?
I know there is at least one member of this forum that
prefers the former - which is fine for him, but I'll stay
feral.
I'm sure there are mechanical die
hards, who might ask for coil spring powered wind-up
shifters instead
of the dreaded electronic shifters, but I haven't met any
(yet).
One thing the author didn't mention is battery performance
across temperature. In the cold it drops off rather
dramatically, or leave the bike out in the hot sun or in the
back of the car for a while and the effects of solar loading
are equally detrimental.
The author also proclaims:
"Yes, youAll never have to dial-adjust tune the derailleur
as your
cables stretch..."
which is easily avoided by using genuine Campy non-stretch
cables.
02/02/2022
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/
hE70fWkwt6E/m/LGCH-_r_AAAJ>
"...chain skipping on the Campy 10 speeds is a common
problem until
Campy started building special non-stretch cables."
Don't forget when he was called out on it by a bike shop
owner with over 50 years experience stating that cables
don't stretch, he suggested said bike shop owner must have
his own cable stretching process before building a new bike.
Could it be that the author reads Tom's postings in RBT?
I shudder to think of it.
People like what they like and it's good we have many
choices, including my fixie which is always in the right
gear and dead quiet.
Regarding gear cables, as luck would have it they are made
of steel which is a material whose properties we know
thoroughly:
https://verope.com/rope-tech/deformation-behavior-2/
The deformation, for any value of rider hand input force,
is not significant to a bicycle gear system.
On Tue, 27 Jan 2026 07:40:46 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 1/27/2026 5:57 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 1/26/2026 9:44 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jan 2026 17:32:35 -0600, AMuzi
<am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
To quote Mayor Eric Adams, rCL8 million New Yorkers, 35
million opinions, and a new challenge every day? I love it.rCY
Today's example:
https://bikerumor.com/dear-bike-industry-please-dont-
take-away-my-high-end-mechanical-drivetrains/
The reader comments are nearly unending
The article is mostly FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt).
I disagree. The author seems to have weighed his options
rather carefully with the advantage of actually ridden with
electronic systems. I agree with his conclusions
wholeheartedly.
-aReplacing
batteries, dealing with firmware versions, smartphone
aging, etc are
hardly new to today's tech buyers.
Which doesn't make it better. Which would you prefer -
getting on your bike to find out the battery is dead, then
replacing the battery to find out app no longer works, then
trying to upgrade the app and finding out your phones OS
needs updating, then finding out your phone isn't compatible
with the New OS, or just giving your derailleur adjustment
screw a 1/4 turn to silence some chatter?
I know there is at least one member of this forum that
prefers the former - which is fine for him, but I'll stay
feral.
I'm sure there are mechanical die
hards, who might ask for coil spring powered wind-up
shifters instead
of the dreaded electronic shifters, but I haven't met any
(yet).
One thing the author didn't mention is battery performance
across temperature. In the cold it drops off rather
dramatically, or leave the bike out in the hot sun or in the
back of the car for a while and the effects of solar loading
are equally detrimental.
The author also proclaims:
"Yes, yourCOll never have to dial-adjust tune the derailleur
as your
cables stretch..."
which is easily avoided by using genuine Campy non-stretch
cables.
02/02/2022
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/
hE70fWkwt6E/m/LGCH-_r_AAAJ>
"...chain skipping on the Campy 10 speeds is a common
problem until
Campy started building special non-stretch cables."
Don't forget when he was called out on it by a bike shop
owner with over 50 years experience stating that cables
don't stretch, he suggested said bike shop owner must have
his own cable stretching process before building a new bike.
Could it be that the author reads Tom's postings in RBT?
I shudder to think of it.
People like what they like and it's good we have many
choices, including my fixie which is always in the right
gear and dead quiet.
Regarding gear cables, as luck would have it they are made
of steel which is a material whose properties we know
thoroughly:
https://verope.com/rope-tech/deformation-behavior-2/
The deformation, for any value of rider hand input force,
is not significant to a bicycle gear system.
Chains stretch, shift cables not so much.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
On 1/27/2026 11:06 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Tue, 27 Jan 2026 07:40:46 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 1/27/2026 5:57 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 1/26/2026 9:44 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jan 2026 17:32:35 -0600, AMuzi
<am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
To quote Mayor Eric Adams, o8 million New Yorkers, 35
million opinions, and a new challenge every day? I love it.o
Today's example:
https://bikerumor.com/dear-bike-industry-please-dont-
take-away-my-high-end-mechanical-drivetrains/
The reader comments are nearly unending
The article is mostly FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt).
I disagree. The author seems to have weighed his options
rather carefully with the advantage of actually ridden with
electronic systems. I agree with his conclusions
wholeheartedly.
aReplacing
batteries, dealing with firmware versions, smartphone
aging, etc are
hardly new to today's tech buyers.
Which doesn't make it better. Which would you prefer -
getting on your bike to find out the battery is dead, then
replacing the battery to find out app no longer works, then
trying to upgrade the app and finding out your phones OS
needs updating, then finding out your phone isn't compatible
with the New OS, or just giving your derailleur adjustment
screw a 1/4 turn to silence some chatter?
I know there is at least one member of this forum that
prefers the former - which is fine for him, but I'll stay
feral.
I'm sure there are mechanical die
hards, who might ask for coil spring powered wind-up
shifters instead
of the dreaded electronic shifters, but I haven't met any
(yet).
One thing the author didn't mention is battery performance
across temperature. In the cold it drops off rather
dramatically, or leave the bike out in the hot sun or in the
back of the car for a while and the effects of solar loading
are equally detrimental.
The author also proclaims:
"Yes, youAll never have to dial-adjust tune the derailleur
as your
cables stretch..."
which is easily avoided by using genuine Campy non-stretch
cables.
02/02/2022
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/
hE70fWkwt6E/m/LGCH-_r_AAAJ>
"...chain skipping on the Campy 10 speeds is a common
problem until
Campy started building special non-stretch cables."
Don't forget when he was called out on it by a bike shop
owner with over 50 years experience stating that cables
don't stretch, he suggested said bike shop owner must have
his own cable stretching process before building a new bike.
Could it be that the author reads Tom's postings in RBT?
I shudder to think of it.
People like what they like and it's good we have many
choices, including my fixie which is always in the right
gear and dead quiet.
Regarding gear cables, as luck would have it they are made
of steel which is a material whose properties we know
thoroughly:
https://verope.com/rope-tech/deformation-behavior-2/
The deformation, for any value of rider hand input force,
is not significant to a bicycle gear system.
Chains stretch, shift cables not so much.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
Sorta.
Chains elongate after the tolerances between rivet and
roller are worn larger. It's a loss of material, not
deformation.
Similarly, the death of headsets by 'indexing' was thought
to be a Brinell-like effect; a divot made by balls deforming
the surfaces. Photo micrographs however show there is no
disrupted or deformed material. It's erosive material loss
by momentary spot welding of ball to bearing surface.
Back to gear wires, the net effect of loosening is not steel
wire deformation but rather casing compression and seating
of ferrules, sometimes deformation or failure of plastic
ferrules.
On Tue, 27 Jan 2026 11:18:38 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 1/27/2026 11:06 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Tue, 27 Jan 2026 07:40:46 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 1/27/2026 5:57 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 1/26/2026 9:44 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jan 2026 17:32:35 -0600, AMuzi
<am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
To quote Mayor Eric Adams, rCL8 million New Yorkers, 35
million opinions, and a new challenge every day? I love it.rCY
Today's example:
https://bikerumor.com/dear-bike-industry-please-dont-
take-away-my-high-end-mechanical-drivetrains/
The reader comments are nearly unending
The article is mostly FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt).
I disagree. The author seems to have weighed his options
rather carefully with the advantage of actually ridden with
electronic systems. I agree with his conclusions
wholeheartedly.
-aReplacing
batteries, dealing with firmware versions, smartphone
aging, etc are
hardly new to today's tech buyers.
Which doesn't make it better. Which would you prefer -
getting on your bike to find out the battery is dead, then
replacing the battery to find out app no longer works, then
trying to upgrade the app and finding out your phones OS
needs updating, then finding out your phone isn't compatible
with the New OS, or just giving your derailleur adjustment
screw a 1/4 turn to silence some chatter?
I know there is at least one member of this forum that
prefers the former - which is fine for him, but I'll stay
feral.
I'm sure there are mechanical die
hards, who might ask for coil spring powered wind-up
shifters instead
of the dreaded electronic shifters, but I haven't met any
(yet).
One thing the author didn't mention is battery performance
across temperature. In the cold it drops off rather
dramatically, or leave the bike out in the hot sun or in the
back of the car for a while and the effects of solar loading
are equally detrimental.
The author also proclaims:
"Yes, yourCOll never have to dial-adjust tune the derailleur
as your
cables stretch..."
which is easily avoided by using genuine Campy non-stretch
cables.
02/02/2022
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/
hE70fWkwt6E/m/LGCH-_r_AAAJ>
"...chain skipping on the Campy 10 speeds is a common
problem until
Campy started building special non-stretch cables."
Don't forget when he was called out on it by a bike shop
owner with over 50 years experience stating that cables
don't stretch, he suggested said bike shop owner must have
his own cable stretching process before building a new bike.
Could it be that the author reads Tom's postings in RBT?
I shudder to think of it.
People like what they like and it's good we have many
choices, including my fixie which is always in the right
gear and dead quiet.
Regarding gear cables, as luck would have it they are made
of steel which is a material whose properties we know
thoroughly:
https://verope.com/rope-tech/deformation-behavior-2/
The deformation, for any value of rider hand input force,
is not significant to a bicycle gear system.
Chains stretch, shift cables not so much.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
Sorta.
Chains elongate after the tolerances between rivet and
roller are worn larger. It's a loss of material, not
deformation.
Similarly, the death of headsets by 'indexing' was thought
to be a Brinell-like effect; a divot made by balls deforming
the surfaces. Photo micrographs however show there is no
disrupted or deformed material. It's erosive material loss
by momentary spot welding of ball to bearing surface.
Back to gear wires, the net effect of loosening is not steel
wire deformation but rather casing compression and seating
of ferrules, sometimes deformation or failure of plastic
ferrules.
Thirteen feet of bicycle chain "stretches" farther than four feet of
chain.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
On Tue, 27 Jan 2026 11:18:38 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 1/27/2026 11:06 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Tue, 27 Jan 2026 07:40:46 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 1/27/2026 5:57 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 1/26/2026 9:44 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jan 2026 17:32:35 -0600, AMuzi
<am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
To quote Mayor Eric Adams, -o8 million New Yorkers, 35
million opinions, and a new challenge every day? I love it.-o
Today's example:
https://bikerumor.com/dear-bike-industry-please-dont-
take-away-my-high-end-mechanical-drivetrains/
The reader comments are nearly unending
The article is mostly FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt).
I disagree. The author seems to have weighed his options
rather carefully with the advantage of actually ridden with
electronic systems. I agree with his conclusions
wholeheartedly.
-aReplacing
batteries, dealing with firmware versions, smartphone
aging, etc are
hardly new to today's tech buyers.
Which doesn't make it better. Which would you prefer -
getting on your bike to find out the battery is dead, then
replacing the battery to find out app no longer works, then
trying to upgrade the app and finding out your phones OS
needs updating, then finding out your phone isn't compatible
with the New OS, or just giving your derailleur adjustment
screw a 1/4 turn to silence some chatter?
I know there is at least one member of this forum that
prefers the former - which is fine for him, but I'll stay
feral.
I'm sure there are mechanical die
hards, who might ask for coil spring powered wind-up
shifters instead
of the dreaded electronic shifters, but I haven't met any
(yet).
One thing the author didn't mention is battery performance
across temperature. In the cold it drops off rather
dramatically, or leave the bike out in the hot sun or in the
back of the car for a while and the effects of solar loading
are equally detrimental.
The author also proclaims:
"Yes, you-All never have to dial-adjust tune the derailleur
as your
cables stretch..."
which is easily avoided by using genuine Campy non-stretch
cables.
02/02/2022
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/
hE70fWkwt6E/m/LGCH-_r_AAAJ>
"...chain skipping on the Campy 10 speeds is a common
problem until
Campy started building special non-stretch cables."
Don't forget when he was called out on it by a bike shop
owner with over 50 years experience stating that cables
don't stretch, he suggested said bike shop owner must have
his own cable stretching process before building a new bike.
Could it be that the author reads Tom's postings in RBT?
I shudder to think of it.
People like what they like and it's good we have many
choices, including my fixie which is always in the right
gear and dead quiet.
Regarding gear cables, as luck would have it they are made
of steel which is a material whose properties we know
thoroughly:
https://verope.com/rope-tech/deformation-behavior-2/
The deformation, for any value of rider hand input force,
is not significant to a bicycle gear system.
Chains stretch, shift cables not so much.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
Sorta.
Chains elongate after the tolerances between rivet and
roller are worn larger. It's a loss of material, not
deformation.
Similarly, the death of headsets by 'indexing' was thought
to be a Brinell-like effect; a divot made by balls deforming
the surfaces. Photo micrographs however show there is no
disrupted or deformed material. It's erosive material loss
by momentary spot welding of ball to bearing surface.
Back to gear wires, the net effect of loosening is not steel
wire deformation but rather casing compression and seating
of ferrules, sometimes deformation or failure of plastic
ferrules.
Thirteen feet of bicycle chain "stretches" farther than four feet of
chain.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
On 1/27/2026 11:06 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Tue, 27 Jan 2026 07:40:46 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 1/27/2026 5:57 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 1/26/2026 9:44 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jan 2026 17:32:35 -0600, AMuzi
<am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
To quote Mayor Eric Adams, rCL8 million New Yorkers, 35
million opinions, and a new challenge every day? I love it.rCY
Today's example:
https://bikerumor.com/dear-bike-industry-please-dont-
take-away-my-high-end-mechanical-drivetrains/
The reader comments are nearly unending
The article is mostly FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt).
I disagree. The author seems to have weighed his options
rather carefully with the advantage of actually ridden with
electronic systems. I agree with his conclusions
wholeheartedly.
-a-aReplacing
batteries, dealing with firmware versions, smartphone
aging, etc are
hardly new to today's tech buyers.
Which doesn't make it better. Which would you prefer -
getting on your bike to find out the battery is dead, then
replacing the battery to find out app no longer works, then
trying to upgrade the app and finding out your phones OS
needs updating, then finding out your phone isn't compatible
with the New OS, or just giving your derailleur adjustment
screw a 1/4 turn to silence some chatter?
I know there is at least one member of this forum that
prefers the former - which is fine for him, but I'll stay
feral.
I'm sure there are mechanical die
hards, who might ask for coil spring powered wind-up
shifters instead
of the dreaded electronic shifters, but I haven't met any
(yet).
One thing the author didn't mention is battery performance
across temperature. In the cold it drops off rather
dramatically, or leave the bike out in the hot sun or in the
back of the car for a while and the effects of solar loading
are equally detrimental.
The author also proclaims:
"Yes, yourCOll never have to dial-adjust tune the derailleur
as your
cables stretch..."
which is easily avoided by using genuine Campy non-stretch
cables.
02/02/2022
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/
hE70fWkwt6E/m/LGCH-_r_AAAJ>
"...chain skipping on the Campy 10 speeds is a common
problem until
Campy started building special non-stretch cables."
Don't forget when he was called out on it by a bike shop
owner with over 50 years experience stating that cables
don't stretch, he suggested said bike shop owner must have
his own cable stretching process before building a new bike.
Could it be that the author reads Tom's postings in RBT?
I shudder to think of it.
People like what they like and it's good we have many
choices, including my fixie which is always in the right
gear and dead quiet.
Regarding gear cables, as luck would have it they are made
of steel which is a material whose properties we know
thoroughly:
https://verope.com/rope-tech/deformation-behavior-2/
The deformation, for any value of rider hand input force,
is not significant to a bicycle gear system.
Chains stretch, shift cables not so much.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
Sorta.
Chains elongate after the tolerances between rivet and roller are worn larger. It's a loss of material, not deformation.
Similarly, the death of headsets by 'indexing' was thought to be a Brinell-like effect; a divot made by balls deforming the surfaces. Photo micrographs however show there is no disrupted or deformed material.
It's erosive material loss by momentary spot welding of ball to bearing surface.
Back to gear wires, the net effect of loosening is not steel wire deformation but rather casing compression and seating of ferrules,
sometimes deformation or failure of plastic ferrules.
On 1/27/2026 11:18 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/27/2026 11:06 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Tue, 27 Jan 2026 07:40:46 -0600, AMuzi
<am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 1/27/2026 5:57 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 1/26/2026 9:44 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jan 2026 17:32:35 -0600, AMuzi
<am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
To quote Mayor Eric Adams, rCL8 million New Yorkers, 35
million opinions, and a new challenge every day? I
love it.rCY
Today's example:
https://bikerumor.com/dear-bike-industry-please-dont-
take-away-my-high-end-mechanical-drivetrains/
The reader comments are nearly unending
The article is mostly FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt).
I disagree. The author seems to have weighed his options
rather carefully with the advantage of actually ridden
with
electronic systems. I agree with his conclusions
wholeheartedly.
-a-aReplacing
batteries, dealing with firmware versions, smartphone
aging, etc are
hardly new to today's tech buyers.
Which doesn't make it better. Which would you prefer -
getting on your bike to find out the battery is dead, then
replacing the battery to find out app no longer works,
then
trying to upgrade the app and finding out your phones OS
needs updating, then finding out your phone isn't
compatible
with the New OS, or just giving your derailleur adjustment
screw a 1/4 turn to silence some chatter?
I know there is at least one member of this forum that
prefers the former - which is fine for him, but I'll stay
feral.
I'm sure there are mechanical die
hards, who might ask for coil spring powered wind-up
shifters instead
of the dreaded electronic shifters, but I haven't met any
(yet).
One thing the author didn't mention is battery performance
across temperature. In the cold it drops off rather
dramatically, or leave the bike out in the hot sun or
in the
back of the car for a while and the effects of solar
loading
are equally detrimental.
The author also proclaims:
"Yes, yourCOll never have to dial-adjust tune the
derailleur
as your
cables stretch..."
which is easily avoided by using genuine Campy non-
stretch
cables.
02/02/2022
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/
hE70fWkwt6E/m/LGCH-_r_AAAJ>
"...chain skipping on the Campy 10 speeds is a common
problem until
Campy started building special non-stretch cables."
Don't forget when he was called out on it by a bike shop
owner with over 50 years experience stating that cables
don't stretch, he suggested said bike shop owner must have
his own cable stretching process before building a new
bike.
Could it be that the author reads Tom's postings in RBT?
I shudder to think of it.
People like what they like and it's good we have many
choices, including my fixie which is always in the right
gear and dead quiet.
Regarding gear cables, as luck would have it they are made
of steel which is a material whose properties we know
thoroughly:
https://verope.com/rope-tech/deformation-behavior-2/
The deformation, for any value of rider hand input force,
is not significant to a bicycle gear system.
Chains stretch, shift cables not so much.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
Sorta.
Chains elongate after the tolerances between rivet and
roller are worn larger. It's a loss of material, not
deformation.
Similarly, the death of headsets by 'indexing' was thought
to be a Brinell-like effect; a divot made by balls
deforming the surfaces. Photo micrographs however show
there is no disrupted or deformed material. It's erosive
material loss by momentary spot welding of ball to bearing
surface.
Back to gear wires, the net effect of loosening is not
steel wire deformation but rather casing compression and
seating of ferrules, sometimes deformation or failure of
plastic ferrules.
To that end I always use metal ferrules never those plastic
crappy ones. All my cabling is with alloy ferrules and it
makes shifting and performance much better, and over a
longer haul. Eventually the cable goes bad in shifter and
Shimano trait but my guess all of them do.
As the electronic shifting really to me it is no big deal to
shift mechanically and I actually like to do it. Granted I
never have used electronic but why should I? I have plenty
of new cables in the stockpile and I have at the moment
wonderful shifting of Shimano 6800 and R7000. It is easy to
change out and right now I see no need for any electronic
shifting. I am not retro just practical. Does it really make
that much difference?
On 1/27/2026 2:03 PM, Mark J cleary wrote:
On 1/27/2026 11:18 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/27/2026 11:06 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Tue, 27 Jan 2026 07:40:46 -0600, AMuzi
<am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 1/27/2026 5:57 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 1/26/2026 9:44 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jan 2026 17:32:35 -0600, AMuzi
<am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
To quote Mayor Eric Adams, rCL8 million New Yorkers, 35
million opinions, and a new challenge every day? I
love it.rCY
Today's example:
https://bikerumor.com/dear-bike-industry-please-dont-
take-away-my-high-end-mechanical-drivetrains/
The reader comments are nearly unending
The article is mostly FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt).
I disagree. The author seems to have weighed his options
rather carefully with the advantage of actually ridden
with
electronic systems. I agree with his conclusions
wholeheartedly.
-a-aReplacing
batteries, dealing with firmware versions, smartphone
aging, etc are
hardly new to today's tech buyers.
Which doesn't make it better. Which would you prefer -
getting on your bike to find out the battery is dead, then
replacing the battery to find out app no longer works,
then
trying to upgrade the app and finding out your phones OS
needs updating, then finding out your phone isn't
compatible
with the New OS, or just giving your derailleur adjustment
screw a 1/4 turn to silence some chatter?
I know there is at least one member of this forum that
prefers the former - which is fine for him, but I'll stay
feral.
I'm sure there are mechanical die
hards, who might ask for coil spring powered wind-up
shifters instead
of the dreaded electronic shifters, but I haven't met any
(yet).
One thing the author didn't mention is battery performance
across temperature. In the cold it drops off rather
dramatically, or leave the bike out in the hot sun or
in the
back of the car for a while and the effects of solar
loading
are equally detrimental.
The author also proclaims:
"Yes, yourCOll never have to dial-adjust tune the
derailleur
as your
cables stretch..."
which is easily avoided by using genuine Campy non-
stretch
cables.
02/02/2022
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/
hE70fWkwt6E/m/LGCH-_r_AAAJ>
"...chain skipping on the Campy 10 speeds is a common
problem until
Campy started building special non-stretch cables."
Don't forget when he was called out on it by a bike shop
owner with over 50 years experience stating that cables
don't stretch, he suggested said bike shop owner must have
his own cable stretching process before building a new
bike.
Could it be that the author reads Tom's postings in RBT?
I shudder to think of it.
People like what they like and it's good we have many
choices, including my fixie which is always in the right
gear and dead quiet.
Regarding gear cables, as luck would have it they are made
of steel which is a material whose properties we know
thoroughly:
https://verope.com/rope-tech/deformation-behavior-2/
The deformation, for any value of rider hand input force,
is not significant to a bicycle gear system.
Chains stretch, shift cables not so much.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
Sorta.
Chains elongate after the tolerances between rivet and
roller are worn larger. It's a loss of material, not
deformation.
Similarly, the death of headsets by 'indexing' was thought
to be a Brinell-like effect; a divot made by balls
deforming the surfaces. Photo micrographs however show
there is no disrupted or deformed material. It's erosive
material loss by momentary spot welding of ball to bearing
surface.
Back to gear wires, the net effect of loosening is not
steel wire deformation but rather casing compression and
seating of ferrules, sometimes deformation or failure of
plastic ferrules.
To that end I always use metal ferrules never those plastic
crappy ones. All my cabling is with alloy ferrules and it
makes shifting and performance much better, and over a
longer haul. Eventually the cable goes bad in shifter and
Shimano trait but my guess all of them do.
As the electronic shifting really to me it is no big deal to
shift mechanically and I actually like to do it. Granted I
never have used electronic but why should I? I have plenty
of new cables in the stockpile and I have at the moment
wonderful shifting of Shimano 6800 and R7000. It is easy to
change out and right now I see no need for any electronic
shifting. I am not retro just practical. Does it really make
that much difference?
Right, the typical failure for a bicycle gear wire is
fraying at the capstan inside the lever. Type 4 here:
https://www.wirerope-atlantic.com/blogs/news/wire-rope-failure-analysis-prevention
very short video:
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/1Opu5Py2FwE
AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 1/27/2026 2:03 PM, Mark J cleary wrote:
On 1/27/2026 11:18 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/27/2026 11:06 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Tue, 27 Jan 2026 07:40:46 -0600, AMuzi
<am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 1/27/2026 5:57 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 1/26/2026 9:44 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jan 2026 17:32:35 -0600, AMuzi
<am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
To quote Mayor Eric Adams, rCL8 million New Yorkers, 35
million opinions, and a new challenge every day? I
love it.rCY
Today's example:
https://bikerumor.com/dear-bike-industry-please-dont-
take-away-my-high-end-mechanical-drivetrains/
The reader comments are nearly unending
The article is mostly FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt).
I disagree. The author seems to have weighed his options
rather carefully with the advantage of actually ridden
with
electronic systems. I agree with his conclusions
wholeheartedly.
-a-aReplacing
batteries, dealing with firmware versions, smartphone
aging, etc are
hardly new to today's tech buyers.
Which doesn't make it better. Which would you prefer -
getting on your bike to find out the battery is dead, then
replacing the battery to find out app no longer works,
then
trying to upgrade the app and finding out your phones OS
needs updating, then finding out your phone isn't
compatible
with the New OS, or just giving your derailleur adjustment
screw a 1/4 turn to silence some chatter?
I know there is at least one member of this forum that
prefers the former - which is fine for him, but I'll stay
feral.
I'm sure there are mechanical die
hards, who might ask for coil spring powered wind-up
shifters instead
of the dreaded electronic shifters, but I haven't met any
(yet).
One thing the author didn't mention is battery performance
across temperature. In the cold it drops off rather
dramatically, or leave the bike out in the hot sun or
in the
back of the car for a while and the effects of solar
loading
are equally detrimental.
The author also proclaims:
"Yes, yourCOll never have to dial-adjust tune the
derailleur
as your
cables stretch..."
which is easily avoided by using genuine Campy non-
stretch
cables.
02/02/2022
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/
hE70fWkwt6E/m/LGCH-_r_AAAJ>
"...chain skipping on the Campy 10 speeds is a common
problem until
Campy started building special non-stretch cables."
Don't forget when he was called out on it by a bike shop
owner with over 50 years experience stating that cables
don't stretch, he suggested said bike shop owner must have
his own cable stretching process before building a new
bike.
Could it be that the author reads Tom's postings in RBT?
I shudder to think of it.
People like what they like and it's good we have many
choices, including my fixie which is always in the right
gear and dead quiet.
Regarding gear cables, as luck would have it they are made
of steel which is a material whose properties we know
thoroughly:
https://verope.com/rope-tech/deformation-behavior-2/
The deformation, for any value of rider hand input force,
is not significant to a bicycle gear system.
Chains stretch, shift cables not so much.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
Sorta.
Chains elongate after the tolerances between rivet and
roller are worn larger. It's a loss of material, not
deformation.
Similarly, the death of headsets by 'indexing' was thought
to be a Brinell-like effect; a divot made by balls
deforming the surfaces. Photo micrographs however show
there is no disrupted or deformed material. It's erosive
material loss by momentary spot welding of ball to bearing
surface.
Back to gear wires, the net effect of loosening is not
steel wire deformation but rather casing compression and
seating of ferrules, sometimes deformation or failure of
plastic ferrules.
To that end I always use metal ferrules never those plastic
crappy ones. All my cabling is with alloy ferrules and it
makes shifting and performance much better, and over a
longer haul. Eventually the cable goes bad in shifter and
Shimano trait but my guess all of them do.
As the electronic shifting really to me it is no big deal to
shift mechanically and I actually like to do it. Granted I
never have used electronic but why should I? I have plenty
of new cables in the stockpile and I have at the moment
wonderful shifting of Shimano 6800 and R7000. It is easy to
change out and right now I see no need for any electronic
shifting. I am not retro just practical. Does it really make
that much difference?
Right, the typical failure for a bicycle gear wire is
fraying at the capstan inside the lever. Type 4 here:
https://www.wirerope-atlantic.com/blogs/news/wire-rope-failure-analysis-prevention
very short video:
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/1Opu5Py2FwE
I never get to fraying but that with my use case ie some bikes used for utility in a wet environment, and others for off road use, cables get to
the canrCOt be encouraged to not be sticky any more, newest bike the cables are fully internal so opportunity for water and gunge to get in, is much reduced, the MTB and previous Gravel bike was semi so places that water and dirt could make ingress.
The older Gravel bike frame had the cable exposed under the bottom bracket which wasnrCOt the wisest of routes for a bike that is likely to see dirt and moisture!
Roger Merriman
On 1/27/2026 5:01 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 1/27/2026 2:03 PM, Mark J cleary wrote:
On 1/27/2026 11:18 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/27/2026 11:06 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Tue, 27 Jan 2026 07:40:46 -0600, AMuzi
<am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 1/27/2026 5:57 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 1/26/2026 9:44 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jan 2026 17:32:35 -0600, AMuzi
<am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
To quote Mayor Eric Adams, rCL8 million New Yorkers, 35
million opinions, and a new challenge every day? I
love it.rCY
Today's example:
https://bikerumor.com/dear-bike-industry-please-dont-
take-away-my-high-end-mechanical-drivetrains/
The reader comments are nearly unending
The article is mostly FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt).
I disagree. The author seems to have weighed his options
rather carefully with the advantage of actually ridden
with
electronic systems. I agree with his conclusions
wholeheartedly.
-a-a-aReplacing
batteries, dealing with firmware versions, smartphone
aging, etc are
hardly new to today's tech buyers.
Which doesn't make it better. Which would you prefer -
getting on your bike to find out the battery is dead, then
replacing the battery to find out app no longer works,
then
trying to upgrade the app and finding out your phones OS
needs updating, then finding out your phone isn't
compatible
with the New OS, or just giving your derailleur adjustment
screw a 1/4 turn to silence some chatter?
I know there is at least one member of this forum that
prefers the former - which is fine for him, but I'll stay
feral.
I'm sure there are mechanical die
hards, who might ask for coil spring powered wind-up
shifters instead
of the dreaded electronic shifters, but I haven't met any
(yet).
One thing the author didn't mention is battery performance
across temperature. In the cold it drops off rather
dramatically, or leave the bike out in the hot sun or
in the
back of the car for a while and the effects of solar
loading
are equally detrimental.
The author also proclaims:
"Yes, yourCOll never have to dial-adjust tune the
derailleur
as your
cables stretch..."
which is easily avoided by using genuine Campy non-
stretch
cables.
02/02/2022
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/
hE70fWkwt6E/m/LGCH-_r_AAAJ>
"...chain skipping on the Campy 10 speeds is a common
problem until
Campy started building special non-stretch cables."
Don't forget when he was called out on it by a bike shop
owner with over 50 years experience stating that cables
don't stretch, he suggested said bike shop owner must have
his own cable stretching process before building a new
bike.
Could it be that the author reads Tom's postings in RBT?
I shudder to think of it.
People like what they like and it's good we have many
choices, including my fixie which is always in the right
gear and dead quiet.
Regarding gear cables, as luck would have it they are made
of steel which is a material whose properties we know
thoroughly:
https://verope.com/rope-tech/deformation-behavior-2/
The deformation, for any value of rider hand input force,
is not significant to a bicycle gear system.
Chains stretch, shift cables not so much.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
Sorta.
Chains elongate after the tolerances between rivet and
roller are worn larger. It's a loss of material, not
deformation.
Similarly, the death of headsets by 'indexing' was thought
to be a Brinell-like effect; a divot made by balls
deforming the surfaces. Photo micrographs however show
there is no disrupted or deformed material. It's erosive
material loss by momentary spot welding of ball to bearing
surface.
Back to gear wires, the net effect of loosening is not
steel wire deformation but rather casing compression and
seating of ferrules, sometimes deformation or failure of
plastic ferrules.
To that end I always use metal ferrules never those plastic
crappy ones. All my cabling is with alloy ferrules and it
makes shifting and performance much better, and over a
longer haul. Eventually the cable goes bad in shifter and
Shimano trait but my guess all of them do.
As the electronic shifting really to me it is no big deal to
shift mechanically and I actually like to do it. Granted I
never have used electronic but why should I? I have plenty
of new cables in the stockpile and I have at the moment
wonderful shifting of Shimano 6800 and R7000. It is easy to
change out and right now I see no need for any electronic
shifting. I am not retro just practical. Does it really make
that much difference?
Right, the typical failure for a bicycle gear wire is
fraying at the capstan inside the lever.-a Type 4 here:
https://www.wirerope-atlantic.com/blogs/news/wire-rope-failure-
analysis-prevention
very short video:
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/1Opu5Py2FwE
I never get to fraying but that with my-a use case ie some bikes used for
utility in a wet environment, and others for off road use, cables get to
the canrCOt be encouraged to not be sticky any more, newest bike the cables >> are fully internal so opportunity for water and gunge to get in, is much
reduced, the MTB and previous Gravel bike was semi so places that
water and
dirt could make ingress.
The older Gravel bike frame had the cable exposed under the bottom
bracket
which wasnrCOt the wisest of routes for a bike that is likely to see
dirt and
moisture!
Roger Merriman
Yes, there are many failure modes including corrosion as you note.
But typically they fray on the capstan:
https://tinyurl.com/5n9ajk4w
On 1/27/2026 12:58 PM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Tue, 27 Jan 2026 11:18:38 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 1/27/2026 11:06 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Tue, 27 Jan 2026 07:40:46 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote: >>>>
On 1/27/2026 5:57 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 1/26/2026 9:44 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jan 2026 17:32:35 -0600, AMuzi
<am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
To quote Mayor Eric Adams, o8 million New Yorkers, 35
million opinions, and a new challenge every day? I love it.o
Today's example:
https://bikerumor.com/dear-bike-industry-please-dont-
take-away-my-high-end-mechanical-drivetrains/
The reader comments are nearly unending
The article is mostly FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt).
I disagree. The author seems to have weighed his options
rather carefully with the advantage of actually ridden with
electronic systems. I agree with his conclusions
wholeheartedly.
aReplacing
batteries, dealing with firmware versions, smartphone
aging, etc are
hardly new to today's tech buyers.
Which doesn't make it better. Which would you prefer -
getting on your bike to find out the battery is dead, then
replacing the battery to find out app no longer works, then
trying to upgrade the app and finding out your phones OS
needs updating, then finding out your phone isn't compatible
with the New OS, or just giving your derailleur adjustment
screw a 1/4 turn to silence some chatter?
I know there is at least one member of this forum that
prefers the former - which is fine for him, but I'll stay
feral.
I'm sure there are mechanical die
hards, who might ask for coil spring powered wind-up
shifters instead
of the dreaded electronic shifters, but I haven't met any
(yet).
One thing the author didn't mention is battery performance
across temperature. In the cold it drops off rather
dramatically, or leave the bike out in the hot sun or in the
back of the car for a while and the effects of solar loading
are equally detrimental.
The author also proclaims:
"Yes, youAll never have to dial-adjust tune the derailleur
as your
cables stretch..."
which is easily avoided by using genuine Campy non-stretch
cables.
02/02/2022
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/
hE70fWkwt6E/m/LGCH-_r_AAAJ>
"...chain skipping on the Campy 10 speeds is a common
problem until
Campy started building special non-stretch cables."
Don't forget when he was called out on it by a bike shop
owner with over 50 years experience stating that cables
don't stretch, he suggested said bike shop owner must have
his own cable stretching process before building a new bike.
Could it be that the author reads Tom's postings in RBT?
I shudder to think of it.
People like what they like and it's good we have many
choices, including my fixie which is always in the right
gear and dead quiet.
Regarding gear cables, as luck would have it they are made
of steel which is a material whose properties we know
thoroughly:
https://verope.com/rope-tech/deformation-behavior-2/
The deformation, for any value of rider hand input force,
is not significant to a bicycle gear system.
Chains stretch, shift cables not so much.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
Sorta.
Chains elongate after the tolerances between rivet and
roller are worn larger. It's a loss of material, not
deformation.
Similarly, the death of headsets by 'indexing' was thought
to be a Brinell-like effect; a divot made by balls deforming
the surfaces. Photo micrographs however show there is no
disrupted or deformed material. It's erosive material loss
by momentary spot welding of ball to bearing surface.
Back to gear wires, the net effect of loosening is not steel
wire deformation but rather casing compression and seating
of ferrules, sometimes deformation or failure of plastic
ferrules.
Thirteen feet of bicycle chain "stretches" farther than four feet of
chain.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
I'm sure it does!
But functionally the critical aspect is engagement with the
teeth, that is a change of effective pitch, not overall length.
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/WORN.JPG
See Mr Brandt's comments in the pink text box here: >http://www.yellowjersey.org/3'32.html#BRANDT
Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Tue, 27 Jan 2026 11:18:38 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:Sure and the chain does stretch but itAs due to wear of the pins and bushes >than the metal being stretched, so yes the chain gets long but itAs due to >wear.
On 1/27/2026 11:06 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Tue, 27 Jan 2026 07:40:46 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote: >>>>
On 1/27/2026 5:57 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 1/26/2026 9:44 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jan 2026 17:32:35 -0600, AMuzi
<am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
To quote Mayor Eric Adams, ?8 million New Yorkers, 35
million opinions, and a new challenge every day? I love it.?
Today's example:
https://bikerumor.com/dear-bike-industry-please-dont-
take-away-my-high-end-mechanical-drivetrains/
The reader comments are nearly unending
The article is mostly FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt).
I disagree. The author seems to have weighed his options
rather carefully with the advantage of actually ridden with
electronic systems. I agree with his conclusions
wholeheartedly.
aReplacing
batteries, dealing with firmware versions, smartphone
aging, etc are
hardly new to today's tech buyers.
Which doesn't make it better. Which would you prefer -
getting on your bike to find out the battery is dead, then
replacing the battery to find out app no longer works, then
trying to upgrade the app and finding out your phones OS
needs updating, then finding out your phone isn't compatible
with the New OS, or just giving your derailleur adjustment
screw a 1/4 turn to silence some chatter?
I know there is at least one member of this forum that
prefers the former - which is fine for him, but I'll stay
feral.
I'm sure there are mechanical die
hards, who might ask for coil spring powered wind-up
shifters instead
of the dreaded electronic shifters, but I haven't met any
(yet).
One thing the author didn't mention is battery performance
across temperature. In the cold it drops off rather
dramatically, or leave the bike out in the hot sun or in the
back of the car for a while and the effects of solar loading
are equally detrimental.
The author also proclaims:
"Yes, you?ll never have to dial-adjust tune the derailleur
as your
cables stretch..."
which is easily avoided by using genuine Campy non-stretch
cables.
02/02/2022
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/
hE70fWkwt6E/m/LGCH-_r_AAAJ>
"...chain skipping on the Campy 10 speeds is a common
problem until
Campy started building special non-stretch cables."
Don't forget when he was called out on it by a bike shop
owner with over 50 years experience stating that cables
don't stretch, he suggested said bike shop owner must have
his own cable stretching process before building a new bike.
Could it be that the author reads Tom's postings in RBT?
I shudder to think of it.
People like what they like and it's good we have many
choices, including my fixie which is always in the right
gear and dead quiet.
Regarding gear cables, as luck would have it they are made
of steel which is a material whose properties we know
thoroughly:
https://verope.com/rope-tech/deformation-behavior-2/
The deformation, for any value of rider hand input force,
is not significant to a bicycle gear system.
Chains stretch, shift cables not so much.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
Sorta.
Chains elongate after the tolerances between rivet and
roller are worn larger. It's a loss of material, not
deformation.
Similarly, the death of headsets by 'indexing' was thought
to be a Brinell-like effect; a divot made by balls deforming
the surfaces. Photo micrographs however show there is no
disrupted or deformed material. It's erosive material loss
by momentary spot welding of ball to bearing surface.
Back to gear wires, the net effect of loosening is not steel
wire deformation but rather casing compression and seating
of ferrules, sometimes deformation or failure of plastic
ferrules.
Thirteen feet of bicycle chain "stretches" farther than four feet of
chain.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
Roger Merriman
On 1/27/2026 11:06 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Tue, 27 Jan 2026 07:40:46 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 1/27/2026 5:57 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 1/26/2026 9:44 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jan 2026 17:32:35 -0600, AMuzi
<am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
To quote Mayor Eric Adams, rCL8 million New Yorkers, 35
million opinions, and a new challenge every day? I love it.rCY
Today's example:
https://bikerumor.com/dear-bike-industry-please-dont-
take-away-my-high-end-mechanical-drivetrains/
The reader comments are nearly unending
The article is mostly FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt).
I disagree. The author seems to have weighed his options
rather carefully with the advantage of actually ridden with
electronic systems. I agree with his conclusions
wholeheartedly.
-a-aReplacing
batteries, dealing with firmware versions, smartphone
aging, etc are
hardly new to today's tech buyers.
Which doesn't make it better. Which would you prefer -
getting on your bike to find out the battery is dead, then
replacing the battery to find out app no longer works, then
trying to upgrade the app and finding out your phones OS
needs updating, then finding out your phone isn't compatible
with the New OS, or just giving your derailleur adjustment
screw a 1/4 turn to silence some chatter?
I know there is at least one member of this forum that
prefers the former - which is fine for him, but I'll stay
feral.
I'm sure there are mechanical die
hards, who might ask for coil spring powered wind-up
shifters instead
of the dreaded electronic shifters, but I haven't met any
(yet).
One thing the author didn't mention is battery performance
across temperature. In the cold it drops off rather
dramatically, or leave the bike out in the hot sun or in the
back of the car for a while and the effects of solar loading
are equally detrimental.
The author also proclaims:
"Yes, yourCOll never have to dial-adjust tune the derailleur
as your
cables stretch..."
which is easily avoided by using genuine Campy non-stretch
cables.
02/02/2022
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/
hE70fWkwt6E/m/LGCH-_r_AAAJ>
"...chain skipping on the Campy 10 speeds is a common
problem until
Campy started building special non-stretch cables."
Don't forget when he was called out on it by a bike shop
owner with over 50 years experience stating that cables
don't stretch, he suggested said bike shop owner must have
his own cable stretching process before building a new bike.
Could it be that the author reads Tom's postings in RBT?
I shudder to think of it.
People like what they like and it's good we have many
choices, including my fixie which is always in the right
gear and dead quiet.
Regarding gear cables, as luck would have it they are made
of steel which is a material whose properties we know
thoroughly:
https://verope.com/rope-tech/deformation-behavior-2/
The deformation, for any value of rider hand input force,
is not significant to a bicycle gear system.
Chains stretch, shift cables not so much.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
On 1/27/2026 11:18 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/27/2026 11:06 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Tue, 27 Jan 2026 07:40:46 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 1/27/2026 5:57 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 1/26/2026 9:44 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jan 2026 17:32:35 -0600, AMuzi
<am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
To quote Mayor Eric Adams, rCL8 million New Yorkers, 35
million opinions, and a new challenge every day? I love it.rCY
Today's example:
https://bikerumor.com/dear-bike-industry-please-dont-
take-away-my-high-end-mechanical-drivetrains/
The reader comments are nearly unending
The article is mostly FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt).
I disagree. The author seems to have weighed his options
rather carefully with the advantage of actually ridden with
electronic systems. I agree with his conclusions
wholeheartedly.
-a-aReplacing
batteries, dealing with firmware versions, smartphone
aging, etc are
hardly new to today's tech buyers.
Which doesn't make it better. Which would you prefer -
getting on your bike to find out the battery is dead, then
replacing the battery to find out app no longer works, then
trying to upgrade the app and finding out your phones OS
needs updating, then finding out your phone isn't compatible
with the New OS, or just giving your derailleur adjustment
screw a 1/4 turn to silence some chatter?
I know there is at least one member of this forum that
prefers the former - which is fine for him, but I'll stay
feral.
I'm sure there are mechanical die
hards, who might ask for coil spring powered wind-up
shifters instead
of the dreaded electronic shifters, but I haven't met any
(yet).
One thing the author didn't mention is battery performance
across temperature. In the cold it drops off rather
dramatically, or leave the bike out in the hot sun or in the
back of the car for a while and the effects of solar loading
are equally detrimental.
The author also proclaims:
"Yes, yourCOll never have to dial-adjust tune the derailleur
as your
cables stretch..."
which is easily avoided by using genuine Campy non-stretch
cables.
02/02/2022
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/
hE70fWkwt6E/m/LGCH-_r_AAAJ>
"...chain skipping on the Campy 10 speeds is a common
problem until
Campy started building special non-stretch cables."
Don't forget when he was called out on it by a bike shop
owner with over 50 years experience stating that cables
don't stretch, he suggested said bike shop owner must have
his own cable stretching process before building a new bike.
Could it be that the author reads Tom's postings in RBT?
I shudder to think of it.
People like what they like and it's good we have many
choices, including my fixie which is always in the right
gear and dead quiet.
Regarding gear cables, as luck would have it they are made
of steel which is a material whose properties we know
thoroughly:
https://verope.com/rope-tech/deformation-behavior-2/
The deformation, for any value of rider hand input force,
is not significant to a bicycle gear system.
Chains stretch, shift cables not so much.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
Sorta.
Chains elongate after the tolerances between rivet and roller are worn
larger. It's a loss of material, not deformation.
Similarly, the death of headsets by 'indexing' was thought to be a
Brinell-like effect; a divot made by balls deforming the surfaces.
Photo micrographs however show there is no disrupted or deformed
material. It's erosive material loss by momentary spot welding of ball
to bearing surface.
Back to gear wires, the net effect of loosening is not steel wire
deformation but rather casing compression and seating of ferrules,
sometimes deformation or failure of plastic ferrules.
To that end I always use metal ferrules never those plastic crappy ones.
All my cabling is with alloy ferrules and it makes shifting and
performance much better, and over a longer haul. Eventually the cable
goes bad in shifter and Shimano trait but my guess all of them do.
As the electronic shifting really to me it is no big deal to shift mechanically and I actually like to do it. Granted I never have used electronic but why should I? I have plenty of new cables in the
stockpile and I have at the moment wonderful shifting of Shimano 6800
and R7000. It is easy to change out and right now I see no need for any electronic shifting. I am not retro just practical. Does it really make
that much difference?
On 1/27/2026 5:57 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 1/26/2026 9:44 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jan 2026 17:32:35 -0600, AMuzi
<am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
To quote Mayor Eric Adams, ?8 million New Yorkers, 35
million opinions, and a new challenge every day? I love it.?
Today's example:
https://bikerumor.com/dear-bike-industry-please-dont-
take-away-my-high-end-mechanical-drivetrains/
The reader comments are nearly unending
The article is mostly FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt).
I disagree. The author seems to have weighed his options
rather carefully with the advantage of actually ridden with
electronic systems. I agree with his conclusions
wholeheartedly.
--- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
Thirteen feet of bicycle chain "stretches" farther than four feet ofAndrew is simply saying that steel sideplates DO NOT stretch. The material of the roller on the pin wears. Because of the extra material in your 13 feet of chain it wears much more slowly than, say, mine.
chain.
Am 28.01.2026 um 14:46 schrieb floriduh dumbass:
On Wed, 28 Jan 2026 04:43:55 -0500, zen cycle
<funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 1/27/2026 11:06 AM, floriduh dumbass wrote:
Chains stretch, shift cables not so much.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
no, chains do not stretch. They wear. That wear creates looser
mechanical interfaces that result in the assembly elongating. "stretch"
is a misnomer that attempts to give a simple term to a function with a
similar effect, but in fact the physics behind the two couldn't be any
more different.
"stretch" is a term often used for describing what happens when
bicycle chains wear.
Most cyclists know the chain "stretching" is due
to wear, as do I, who, for what it's worth, has been riding bicycles
longer than you and has likely worn out more chain links than you.
Am 28.01.2026 um 14:46 schrieb floriduh dumbass:
On Wed, 28 Jan 2026 04:43:55 -0500, zen cycle
<funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 1/27/2026 11:06 AM, floriduh dumbass wrote:
Chains stretch, shift cables not so much.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
no, chains do not stretch. They wear. That wear creates looser
mechanical interfaces that result in the assembly elongating. "stretch" >>>> is a misnomer that attempts to give a simple term to a function with a >>>> similar effect, but in fact the physics behind the two couldn't be any >>>> more different.
"stretch" is a term often used for describing what happens when
bicycle chains wear.
Yes, dumbass, that's what I wrote. Look up 'misnomer'.
Most cyclists know the chain "stretching" is due
to wear, as do I, who, for what it's worth, has been riding bicycles
longer than you and has likely worn out more chain links than you.
As if the fact that you rode bikes made of gas pipe has any relevance on >your factual knowledge or understanding? You may have been riding bikes
for a couple of decades longer than I have, but it hasn't sunk in.
Newsflash, dumbass, - you're _not_ a cyclist, You're an old guy with a >tricycle.
Despite your decrepitation and your recreational riding experience >pre-dating 8-track tapes, you still know way less than most of us for
whom cycling has been a major component of most of our lives. Ferfucks
sake, you had never heard the phrase 'taking the lane' before you
started polluting this forum with your ignorant nonsense. You have no >experience riding in large groups, or even riding a road bike with >integrated shifters. You've never waxed a chain or had the pleasure of >cutting open a tubular to repair a leak - let alone stripped, prepped >(glued), and mounted one on a rim.
I competed in more events that you're even aware exists. I've been an
active member and officer in three local clubs for decades, including a
4 year stint as VP then president of the 2nd oldest active club in >Massachusetts. I've promoted races (met with town/city officials,
attended board meetings, met with municipal insurance representatives)
and been a club delegate to the USAC (and USCF....yeah, you've never
heard of those either, right?) national conventions.
I worked in two local bikes shops as a mechanic while in college and
stayed on at one well after that because I enjoyed it. I was the chief >mechanic for a friend who raced the Race Across America for two of his >competitions. You consider shifting and maintaining a tricycle chain to
be a challenge.
How many books do you have on cycling, mr. 'i don't need teachers'? And
no, not 'how to ride a bike' books, dumbass. Works like The Immortal
Class by Travis Culley, A Dog In A Hat by Joe Parkin, The Rider by Tim >Crabbe. Have you ever had a subscription to a cycling periodical? I have >literally (not exaggerating) a seven foot stretch of VeloNews on a shelf
in my basement. I stopped getting the print version when they offered a >digital subscription and I still have it. You've never had any interest
in any one else's writings on cycling, because you're not a cyclist.
Speaking of basements, I have 11 ready-to-ride bikes in my basement and
two stripped frames I'm rebuilding this winter. I have 10 extra wheel >_sets_. You have _a_ tricycle. I have kit from 4 different teams I've
raced for and 4 decades worth of other clothing. I have more cycling >clothing than I have regular clothes. You ride in a fucking t-shirt and
gym shorts, because you're not a cyclist.
When you die everything cycling related you have will be put out on the
curb or thrown away. No one will have any recollection that you had
anything with wheels besides a truck, because you're not a cyclist. My
stash will be donated to Bikes Not Bombs, and given that pretty much all
of my friends are cyclists, it's likely I'll be remembered as just that.
Speaking of subscriptions I have subscriptions to HBO/Max and Peacock >specifically for racing coverage. You have none of that because you
aren't really interested in cycling. I have subscriptions to Zwift,
Rouvy, TrainingPeaks virtual, and Mywhoosh (all of which are posted on
my Strava account). I have Wahoo Kickr and Kurt Kinetic indoor trainers,
and a set of rollers - If you can't ride outside, you don't ride,
because you're not a cyclist.
yeah yeah, you'll respond with <YAWN>, <CHORTLE>, <SNORT>...what ever >sarcastic little quip you think is going to win you internet points.
Fuck off. You're just as much of a useless twit as when you first
started irritating people here, because you're not a cyclist.
The takeaway here (if you haven't figured it out by now becasue you
_are_ that obtuse) is that you're not a cyclist, you never were a
cyclist, and you have no real interest in cycling. You're simply an old
guy with a tricycle with no friends, sour about how lonely and vapid his >life is looking for some desperate validation in a forum where you're >hopelessly outclassed - pretty fucking pathetic.
On Wed, 28 Jan 2026 04:43:55 -0500, zen cycleEveryone knows the cause of what is called chain stretch. I suppose Flunky is trying to impress you with his technical knowledge.
<funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 1/27/2026 11:06 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Tue, 27 Jan 2026 07:40:46 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote: >>>
On 1/27/2026 5:57 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 1/26/2026 9:44 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jan 2026 17:32:35 -0600, AMuzi
<am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
To quote Mayor Eric Adams, ?8 million New Yorkers, 35
million opinions, and a new challenge every day? I love it.?
Today's example:
https://bikerumor.com/dear-bike-industry-please-dont-
take-away-my-high-end-mechanical-drivetrains/
The reader comments are nearly unending
The article is mostly FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt).
I disagree. The author seems to have weighed his options
rather carefully with the advantage of actually ridden with
electronic systems. I agree with his conclusions
wholeheartedly.
??Replacing
batteries, dealing with firmware versions, smartphone
aging, etc are
hardly new to today's tech buyers.
Which doesn't make it better. Which would you prefer -
getting on your bike to find out the battery is dead, then
replacing the battery to find out app no longer works, then
trying to upgrade the app and finding out your phones OS
needs updating, then finding out your phone isn't compatible
with the New OS, or just giving your derailleur adjustment
screw a 1/4 turn to silence some chatter?
I know there is at least one member of this forum that
prefers the former - which is fine for him, but I'll stay
feral.
I'm sure there are mechanical die
hards, who might ask for coil spring powered wind-up
shifters instead
of the dreaded electronic shifters, but I haven't met any
(yet).
One thing the author didn't mention is battery performance
across temperature. In the cold it drops off rather
dramatically, or leave the bike out in the hot sun or in the
back of the car for a while and the effects of solar loading
are equally detrimental.
The author also proclaims:
"Yes, you?ll never have to dial-adjust tune the derailleur
as your
cables stretch..."
which is easily avoided by using genuine Campy non-stretch
cables.
02/02/2022
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/
hE70fWkwt6E/m/LGCH-_r_AAAJ>
"...chain skipping on the Campy 10 speeds is a common
problem until
Campy started building special non-stretch cables."
Don't forget when he was called out on it by a bike shop
owner with over 50 years experience stating that cables
don't stretch, he suggested said bike shop owner must have
his own cable stretching process before building a new bike.
Could it be that the author reads Tom's postings in RBT?
I shudder to think of it.
People like what they like and it's good we have many
choices, including my fixie which is always in the right
gear and dead quiet.
Regarding gear cables, as luck would have it they are made
of steel which is a material whose properties we know
thoroughly:
https://verope.com/rope-tech/deformation-behavior-2/
The deformation, for any value of rider hand input force,
is not significant to a bicycle gear system.
Chains stretch, shift cables not so much.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
no, chains do not stretch. They wear. That wear creates looser
mechanical interfaces that result in the assembly elongating. "stretch"
is a misnomer that attempts to give a simple term to a function with a >similar effect, but in fact the physics behind the two couldn't be any
more different.
"stretch" is a term often used for describing what happens when
bicycle chains wear. Most cyclists know the chain "stretching" is due
to wear, as do I, who, for what it's worth, has been riding bicycles
longer than you and has likely worn out more chain links than you.
On Wed Jan 28 08:46:09 2026 Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Wed, 28 Jan 2026 04:43:55 -0500, zen cycle
<funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 1/27/2026 11:06 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Tue, 27 Jan 2026 07:40:46 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote: >> >>>
On 1/27/2026 5:57 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 1/26/2026 9:44 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 26 Jan 2026 17:32:35 -0600, AMuzi
<am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
To quote Mayor Eric Adams, ?8 million New Yorkers, 35
million opinions, and a new challenge every day? I love it.?
Today's example:
https://bikerumor.com/dear-bike-industry-please-dont-
take-away-my-high-end-mechanical-drivetrains/
The reader comments are nearly unending
The article is mostly FUD (fear, uncertainty, doubt).
I disagree. The author seems to have weighed his options
rather carefully with the advantage of actually ridden with
electronic systems. I agree with his conclusions
wholeheartedly.
??Replacing
batteries, dealing with firmware versions, smartphone
aging, etc are
hardly new to today's tech buyers.
Which doesn't make it better. Which would you prefer -
getting on your bike to find out the battery is dead, then
replacing the battery to find out app no longer works, then
trying to upgrade the app and finding out your phones OS
needs updating, then finding out your phone isn't compatible
with the New OS, or just giving your derailleur adjustment
screw a 1/4 turn to silence some chatter?
I know there is at least one member of this forum that
prefers the former - which is fine for him, but I'll stay
feral.
I'm sure there are mechanical die
hards, who might ask for coil spring powered wind-up
shifters instead
of the dreaded electronic shifters, but I haven't met any
(yet).
One thing the author didn't mention is battery performance
across temperature. In the cold it drops off rather
dramatically, or leave the bike out in the hot sun or in the
back of the car for a while and the effects of solar loading
are equally detrimental.
The author also proclaims:
"Yes, you?ll never have to dial-adjust tune the derailleur
as your
cables stretch..."
which is easily avoided by using genuine Campy non-stretch
cables.
02/02/2022
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/
hE70fWkwt6E/m/LGCH-_r_AAAJ>
"...chain skipping on the Campy 10 speeds is a common
problem until
Campy started building special non-stretch cables."
Don't forget when he was called out on it by a bike shop
owner with over 50 years experience stating that cables
don't stretch, he suggested said bike shop owner must have
his own cable stretching process before building a new bike.
Could it be that the author reads Tom's postings in RBT?
I shudder to think of it.
People like what they like and it's good we have many
choices, including my fixie which is always in the right
gear and dead quiet.
Regarding gear cables, as luck would have it they are made
of steel which is a material whose properties we know
thoroughly:
https://verope.com/rope-tech/deformation-behavior-2/
The deformation, for any value of rider hand input force,
is not significant to a bicycle gear system.
Chains stretch, shift cables not so much.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
no, chains do not stretch. They wear. That wear creates looser
mechanical interfaces that result in the assembly elongating. "stretch"
is a misnomer that attempts to give a simple term to a function with a
similar effect, but in fact the physics behind the two couldn't be any
more different.
"stretch" is a term often used for describing what happens when
bicycle chains wear. Most cyclists know the chain "stretching" is due
to wear, as do I, who, for what it's worth, has been riding bicycles
longer than you and has likely worn out more chain links than you.
Everyone knows the cause of what is called chain stretch. I suppose Flunky is trying to impress you with his technical knowledge.
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