• =?UTF-8?B?Q29udGluZXRhbCA0IHNlYXNvbnMgMzIgbW0=?=

    From =?UTF-8?B?Y3ljbGludG9t?=@cyclintom@yahoo.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Fri Jan 23 00:34:15 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    I tried to remove the front tire because it was dragging against the fork top. But thoses tires were so tight that after 2 hours I pulled out my knife and cut through the sidewalls on both sides and then STILL had to use the cork scew to get a good enough hold on the remaining sidewall to pull it off of the tubeless step. I had to do this on both eides! One of them was STILL too tight to get off over the rim and I had to cut the cord!
    I installed a GP5000 race tire. Luckily I had one 80 mm presta filler innertube left.
    I will ride the DeRosa Merak tomorrow. 43 degrees tomorrow at 9:00 when we leave and I'm thinking 27 miles but I could push it further. I don't think so though since my brother is bringing his bike with 23 mm tires and no doubt this will kill this crotch.
    I can tell the difference between 30 mm and 28 mm but 28 is good enough.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From AMuzi@am@yellowjersey.org to rec.bicycles.tech on Thu Jan 22 19:05:18 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On 1/22/2026 6:34 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    I tried to remove the front tire because it was dragging against the fork top. But thoses tires were so tight that after 2 hours I pulled out my knife and cut through the sidewalls on both sides and then STILL had to use the cork scew to get a good enough hold on the remaining sidewall to pull it off of the tubeless step. I had to do this on both eides! One of them was STILL too tight to get off over the rim and I had to cut the cord!

    I installed a GP5000 race tire. Luckily I had one 80 mm presta filler innertube left.

    I will ride the DeRosa Merak tomorrow. 43 degrees tomorrow at 9:00 when we leave and I'm thinking 27 miles but I could push it further. I don't think so though since my brother is bringing his bike with 23 mm tires and no doubt this will kill this crotch.

    I can tell the difference between 30 mm and 28 mm but 28 is good enough.

    Push the beads over to the center of the rim where the
    diameter is smaller.
    --
    Andrew Muzi
    am@yellowjersey.org
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From =?UTF-8?B?Y3ljbGludG9t?=@cyclintom@yahoo.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Fri Jan 23 20:53:00 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On Thu Jan 22 19:05:18 2026 AMuzi wrote:
    On 1/22/2026 6:34 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    I tried to remove the front tire because it was dragging against the fork top. But thoses tires were so tight that after 2 hours I pulled out my knife and cut through the sidewalls on both sides and then STILL had to use the cork scew to get a good enough hold on the remaining sidewall to pull it off of the tubeless step. I had to do this on both eides! One of them was STILL too tight to get off over the rim and I had to cut the cord!

    I installed a GP5000 race tire. Luckily I had one 80 mm presta filler innertube left.

    I will ride the DeRosa Merak tomorrow. 43 degrees tomorrow at 9:00 when we leave and I'm thinking 27 miles but I could push it further. I don't think so though since my brother is bringing his bike with 23 mm tires and no doubt this will kill this crotch.

    I can tell the difference between 30 mm and 28 mm but 28 is good enough.

    Push the beads over to the center of the rim where the
    diameter is smaller.
    I spent two full hours trying to do that without any luck at all. Cutting the tire off still hade on side that needed to ber cut completely off before it would release. Today the rear tire STILL was thumping even though I used your soap trick The wheels were Bontrager tubeless.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Roger Merriman@roger@sarlet.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Fri Jan 23 21:29:44 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
    On Thu Jan 22 19:05:18 2026 AMuzi wrote:
    On 1/22/2026 6:34 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    I tried to remove the front tire because it was dragging against the
    fork top. But thoses tires were so tight that after 2 hours I pulled
    out my knife and cut through the sidewalls on both sides and then STILL
    had to use the cork scew to get a good enough hold on the remaining
    sidewall to pull it off of the tubeless step. I had to do this on both
    eides! One of them was STILL too tight to get off over the rim and I had to cut the cord!

    I installed a GP5000 race tire. Luckily I had one 80 mm presta filler innertube left.

    I will ride the DeRosa Merak tomorrow. 43 degrees tomorrow at 9:00 when
    we leave and I'm thinking 27 miles but I could push it further. I don't
    think so though since my brother is bringing his bike with 23 mm tires
    and no doubt this will kill this crotch.

    I can tell the difference between 30 mm and 28 mm but 28 is good enough.

    Push the beads over to the center of the rim where the
    diameter is smaller.




    I spent two full hours trying to do that without any luck at all. Cutting
    the tire off still hade on side that needed to ber cut completely off
    before it would release. Today the rear tire STILL was thumping even
    though I used your soap trick The wheels were Bontrager tubeless.


    4 Seasons are largely unchanged over the years essentially a faster version
    of the Gatorskins but with summer like rubber compounds ie more planted handling in the wet, and like the Gatorskins as they havenrCOt largely been changed they are tube only.

    You need to practice your technique! Or get someone else to fit them! Notoriously difficult tyres such as Marathon pluses are perfectly doable
    using the technique that Andrew explained, IrCOd note that Burly MTB tyres
    with reinforced sidewalls are more difficult than M+ by some margin IrCOm far from a good tyre fitter as I only need to do so every few years. But IrCOve never needed to cut any off, and IrCOm fitting much more challenging tyres.

    Roger Merriman

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From AMuzi@am@yellowjersey.org to rec.bicycles.tech on Fri Jan 23 16:15:50 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On 1/23/2026 2:53 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    On Thu Jan 22 19:05:18 2026 AMuzi wrote:
    On 1/22/2026 6:34 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    I tried to remove the front tire because it was dragging against the fork top. But thoses tires were so tight that after 2 hours I pulled out my knife and cut through the sidewalls on both sides and then STILL had to use the cork scew to get a good enough hold on the remaining sidewall to pull it off of the tubeless step. I had to do this on both eides! One of them was STILL too tight to get off over the rim and I had to cut the cord!

    I installed a GP5000 race tire. Luckily I had one 80 mm presta filler innertube left.

    I will ride the DeRosa Merak tomorrow. 43 degrees tomorrow at 9:00 when we leave and I'm thinking 27 miles but I could push it further. I don't think so though since my brother is bringing his bike with 23 mm tires and no doubt this will kill this crotch.

    I can tell the difference between 30 mm and 28 mm but 28 is good enough.

    Push the beads over to the center of the rim where the
    diameter is smaller.




    I spent two full hours trying to do that without any luck at all. Cutting the tire off still hade on side that needed to ber cut completely off before it would release. Today the rear tire STILL was thumping even though I used your soap trick The wheels were Bontrager tubeless.

    Most probably the wrong (too thick) rim liner, possible
    double layer rim liner, less probable defective (too large) rim.

    What rim liner are you using? The thin coated fabric ones
    (Ritchey, Torelli, FSA etc) are great with modern
    rims/tires. Classic liners such as Velox are way too thick
    for modern tolerances.

    The Velocity system is tedious and it has to be cut for a
    spoke replacement, but they are very thin, tubeless ready
    and make tire changing a breeze.
    --
    Andrew Muzi
    am@yellowjersey.org
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From =?UTF-8?B?Y3ljbGludG9t?=@cyclintom@yahoo.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Mon Feb 2 20:59:29 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On Fri Jan 23 16:15:50 2026 AMuzi wrote:
    On 1/23/2026 2:53 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    On Thu Jan 22 19:05:18 2026 AMuzi wrote:
    On 1/22/2026 6:34 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    I tried to remove the front tire because it was dragging against the fork top. But thoses tires were so tight that after 2 hours I pulled out my knife and cut through the sidewalls on both sides and then STILL had to use the cork scew to get a good enough hold on the remaining sidewall to pull it off of the tubeless step. I had to do this on both eides! One of them was STILL too tight to get off over the rim and I had to cut the cord!

    I installed a GP5000 race tire. Luckily I had one 80 mm presta filler innertube left.

    I will ride the DeRosa Merak tomorrow. 43 degrees tomorrow at 9:00 when we leave and I'm thinking 27 miles but I could push it further. I don't think so though since my brother is bringing his bike with 23 mm tires and no doubt this will kill this crotch.

    I can tell the difference between 30 mm and 28 mm but 28 is good enough. >>
    Push the beads over to the center of the rim where the
    diameter is smaller.




    I spent two full hours trying to do that without any luck at all. Cutting the tire off still hade on side that needed to ber cut completely off before it would release. Today the rear tire STILL was thumping even though I used your soap trick The wheels were Bontrager tubeless.

    Most probably the wrong (too thick) rim liner, possible
    double layer rim liner, less probable defective (too large) rim.

    What rim liner are you using? The thin coated fabric ones
    (Ritchey, Torelli, FSA etc) are great with modern
    rims/tires. Classic liners such as Velox are way too thick
    for modern tolerances.

    The Velocity system is tedious and it has to be cut for a
    spoke replacement, but they are very thin, tubeless ready
    and make tire changing a breeze.
    Well it had Velox liners but the narrow ones that weren't up on the tubeless step. The rim and/or the tire were simply out of spec.
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From =?UTF-8?B?Y3ljbGludG9t?=@cyclintom@yahoo.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Mon Feb 2 21:05:30 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On Fri Jan 23 21:29:44 2026 Roger Merriman wrote:
    cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
    On Thu Jan 22 19:05:18 2026 AMuzi wrote:
    On 1/22/2026 6:34 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    I tried to remove the front tire because it was dragging against the
    fork top. But thoses tires were so tight that after 2 hours I pulled
    out my knife and cut through the sidewalls on both sides and then STILL >>> had to use the cork scew to get a good enough hold on the remaining
    sidewall to pull it off of the tubeless step. I had to do this on both >>> eides! One of them was STILL too tight to get off over the rim and I had to cut the cord!

    I installed a GP5000 race tire. Luckily I had one 80 mm presta filler innertube left.

    I will ride the DeRosa Merak tomorrow. 43 degrees tomorrow at 9:00 when >>> we leave and I'm thinking 27 miles but I could push it further. I don't >>> think so though since my brother is bringing his bike with 23 mm tires >>> and no doubt this will kill this crotch.

    I can tell the difference between 30 mm and 28 mm but 28 is good enough. >>
    Push the beads over to the center of the rim where the
    diameter is smaller.




    I spent two full hours trying to do that without any luck at all. Cutting the tire off still hade on side that needed to ber cut completely off before it would release. Today the rear tire STILL was thumping even
    though I used your soap trick The wheels were Bontrager tubeless.


    4 Seasons are largely unchanged over the years essentially a faster version of the Gatorskins but with summer like rubber compounds ie more planted handling in the wet, and like the Gatorskins as they haven?t largely been changed they are tube only.

    You need to practice your technique! Or get someone else to fit them! Notoriously difficult tyres such as Marathon pluses are perfectly doable using the technique that Andrew explained, I?d note that Burly MTB tyres
    with reinforced sidewalls are more difficult than M+ by some margin I?m far from a good tyre fitter as I only need to do so every few years. But I?ve never needed to cut any off, and I?m fitting much more challenging tyres.
    Roger, I've been riding and fixing flats for 50 years plus. I know what I'm doing. The world is a different place now that tires too large for rims are around. The 28 mm 4 Seasons come right off without a problem.
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From AMuzi@am@yellowjersey.org to rec.bicycles.tech on Mon Feb 2 15:17:05 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On 2/2/2026 2:59 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    On Fri Jan 23 16:15:50 2026 AMuzi wrote:
    On 1/23/2026 2:53 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    On Thu Jan 22 19:05:18 2026 AMuzi wrote:
    On 1/22/2026 6:34 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    I tried to remove the front tire because it was dragging against the fork top. But thoses tires were so tight that after 2 hours I pulled out my knife and cut through the sidewalls on both sides and then STILL had to use the cork scew to get a good enough hold on the remaining sidewall to pull it off of the tubeless step. I had to do this on both eides! One of them was STILL too tight to get off over the rim and I had to cut the cord!

    I installed a GP5000 race tire. Luckily I had one 80 mm presta filler innertube left.

    I will ride the DeRosa Merak tomorrow. 43 degrees tomorrow at 9:00 when we leave and I'm thinking 27 miles but I could push it further. I don't think so though since my brother is bringing his bike with 23 mm tires and no doubt this will kill this crotch.

    I can tell the difference between 30 mm and 28 mm but 28 is good enough. >>>>
    Push the beads over to the center of the rim where the
    diameter is smaller.




    I spent two full hours trying to do that without any luck at all. Cutting the tire off still hade on side that needed to ber cut completely off before it would release. Today the rear tire STILL was thumping even though I used your soap trick The wheels were Bontrager tubeless.

    Most probably the wrong (too thick) rim liner, possible
    double layer rim liner, less probable defective (too large) rim.

    What rim liner are you using? The thin coated fabric ones
    (Ritchey, Torelli, FSA etc) are great with modern
    rims/tires. Classic liners such as Velox are way too thick
    for modern tolerances.

    The Velocity system is tedious and it has to be cut for a
    spoke replacement, but they are very thin, tubeless ready
    and make tire changing a breeze.




    Well it had Velox liners but the narrow ones that weren't up on the tubeless step. The rim and/or the tire were simply out of spec.

    The width isn't critical as long as it covers the nipple
    apertures.
    The thickness is critical for tire changing. Moreso on
    modern 'tubeless compatible' rims, which often have less
    difference between center well and bead set diameters.
    --
    Andrew Muzi
    am@yellowjersey.org
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From AMuzi@am@yellowjersey.org to rec.bicycles.tech on Mon Feb 2 15:19:09 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On 2/2/2026 3:05 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    On Fri Jan 23 21:29:44 2026 Roger Merriman wrote:
    cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
    On Thu Jan 22 19:05:18 2026 AMuzi wrote:
    On 1/22/2026 6:34 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    I tried to remove the front tire because it was dragging against the >>>>> fork top. But thoses tires were so tight that after 2 hours I pulled >>>>> out my knife and cut through the sidewalls on both sides and then STILL >>>>> had to use the cork scew to get a good enough hold on the remaining
    sidewall to pull it off of the tubeless step. I had to do this on both >>>>> eides! One of them was STILL too tight to get off over the rim and I had to cut the cord!

    I installed a GP5000 race tire. Luckily I had one 80 mm presta filler innertube left.

    I will ride the DeRosa Merak tomorrow. 43 degrees tomorrow at 9:00 when >>>>> we leave and I'm thinking 27 miles but I could push it further. I don't >>>>> think so though since my brother is bringing his bike with 23 mm tires >>>>> and no doubt this will kill this crotch.

    I can tell the difference between 30 mm and 28 mm but 28 is good enough. >>>>
    Push the beads over to the center of the rim where the
    diameter is smaller.




    I spent two full hours trying to do that without any luck at all. Cutting >>> the tire off still hade on side that needed to ber cut completely off
    before it would release. Today the rear tire STILL was thumping even
    though I used your soap trick The wheels were Bontrager tubeless.


    4 Seasons are largely unchanged over the years essentially a faster version >> of the Gatorskins but with summer like rubber compounds ie more planted
    handling in the wet, and like the Gatorskins as they haven?t largely been
    changed they are tube only.

    You need to practice your technique! Or get someone else to fit them!
    Notoriously difficult tyres such as Marathon pluses are perfectly doable
    using the technique that Andrew explained, I?d note that Burly MTB tyres
    with reinforced sidewalls are more difficult than M+ by some margin I?m far >> from a good tyre fitter as I only need to do so every few years. But I?ve
    never needed to cut any off, and I?m fitting much more challenging tyres.




    Roger, I've been riding and fixing flats for 50 years plus. I know what I'm doing. The world is a different place now that tires too large for rims are around. The 28 mm 4 Seasons come right off without a problem.

    With roughly as long it this, I think I can say I have
    changed more tires than you. So far, I haven't had to cut a
    tire bead to dismount a tire.
    --
    Andrew Muzi
    am@yellowjersey.org
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From =?UTF-8?B?Y3ljbGludG9t?=@cyclintom@yahoo.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Mon Feb 2 21:34:44 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On Mon Feb 2 15:17:05 2026 AMuzi wrote:
    On 2/2/2026 2:59 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    On Fri Jan 23 16:15:50 2026 AMuzi wrote:
    On 1/23/2026 2:53 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    On Thu Jan 22 19:05:18 2026 AMuzi wrote:
    On 1/22/2026 6:34 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    I tried to remove the front tire because it was dragging against the fork top. But thoses tires were so tight that after 2 hours I pulled out my knife and cut through the sidewalls on both sides and then STILL had to use the cork scew to get a good enough hold on the remaining sidewall to pull it off of the tubeless step. I had to do this on both eides! One of them was STILL too tight to get off over the rim and I had to cut the cord!

    I installed a GP5000 race tire. Luckily I had one 80 mm presta filler innertube left.

    I will ride the DeRosa Merak tomorrow. 43 degrees tomorrow at 9:00 when we leave and I'm thinking 27 miles but I could push it further. I don't think so though since my brother is bringing his bike with 23 mm tires and no doubt this will kill this crotch.

    I can tell the difference between 30 mm and 28 mm but 28 is good enough.

    Push the beads over to the center of the rim where the
    diameter is smaller.




    I spent two full hours trying to do that without any luck at all. Cutting the tire off still hade on side that needed to ber cut completely off before it would release. Today the rear tire STILL was thumping even though I used your soap trick The wheels were Bontrager tubeless.

    Most probably the wrong (too thick) rim liner, possible
    double layer rim liner, less probable defective (too large) rim.

    What rim liner are you using? The thin coated fabric ones
    (Ritchey, Torelli, FSA etc) are great with modern
    rims/tires. Classic liners such as Velox are way too thick
    for modern tolerances.

    The Velocity system is tedious and it has to be cut for a
    spoke replacement, but they are very thin, tubeless ready
    and make tire changing a breeze.




    Well it had Velox liners but the narrow ones that weren't up on the tubeless step. The rim and/or the tire were simply out of spec.

    The width isn't critical as long as it covers the nipple
    apertures.
    The thickness is critical for tire changing. Moreso on
    modern 'tubeless compatible' rims, which often have less
    difference between center well and bead set diameters.
    One of the sidewalls I could pull off of the rim after cutting the top half off of the tire. The other sidewall could not be pulled off of the rim and I had to cut through the cord. That tells me that the cord was far too tight.
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From =?UTF-8?B?Y3ljbGludG9t?=@cyclintom@yahoo.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Mon Feb 2 21:37:34 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On Mon Feb 2 15:19:09 2026 AMuzi wrote:
    On 2/2/2026 3:05 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    On Fri Jan 23 21:29:44 2026 Roger Merriman wrote:
    cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
    On Thu Jan 22 19:05:18 2026 AMuzi wrote:
    On 1/22/2026 6:34 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    I tried to remove the front tire because it was dragging against the >>>>> fork top. But thoses tires were so tight that after 2 hours I pulled >>>>> out my knife and cut through the sidewalls on both sides and then STILL >>>>> had to use the cork scew to get a good enough hold on the remaining >>>>> sidewall to pull it off of the tubeless step. I had to do this on both >>>>> eides! One of them was STILL too tight to get off over the rim and I had to cut the cord!

    I installed a GP5000 race tire. Luckily I had one 80 mm presta filler innertube left.

    I will ride the DeRosa Merak tomorrow. 43 degrees tomorrow at 9:00 when >>>>> we leave and I'm thinking 27 miles but I could push it further. I don't >>>>> think so though since my brother is bringing his bike with 23 mm tires >>>>> and no doubt this will kill this crotch.

    I can tell the difference between 30 mm and 28 mm but 28 is good enough.

    Push the beads over to the center of the rim where the
    diameter is smaller.




    I spent two full hours trying to do that without any luck at all. Cutting >>> the tire off still hade on side that needed to ber cut completely off >>> before it would release. Today the rear tire STILL was thumping even
    though I used your soap trick The wheels were Bontrager tubeless.


    4 Seasons are largely unchanged over the years essentially a faster version
    of the Gatorskins but with summer like rubber compounds ie more planted
    handling in the wet, and like the Gatorskins as they haven?t largely been >> changed they are tube only.

    You need to practice your technique! Or get someone else to fit them!
    Notoriously difficult tyres such as Marathon pluses are perfectly doable >> using the technique that Andrew explained, I?d note that Burly MTB tyres >> with reinforced sidewalls are more difficult than M+ by some margin I?m far
    from a good tyre fitter as I only need to do so every few years. But I?ve >> never needed to cut any off, and I?m fitting much more challenging tyres.




    Roger, I've been riding and fixing flats for 50 years plus. I know what I'm doing. The world is a different place now that tires too large for rims are around. The 28 mm 4 Seasons come right off without a problem.

    With roughly as long it this, I think I can say I have
    changed more tires than you. So far, I haven't had to cut a
    tire bead to dismount a tire.
    I'm sure that you've certainly changed more tires. Are you calling me a liar? Or are you willing to admit that you might not have seen all -possible problems?
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From AMuzi@am@yellowjersey.org to rec.bicycles.tech on Mon Feb 2 16:14:37 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On 2/2/2026 3:37 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    On Mon Feb 2 15:19:09 2026 AMuzi wrote:
    On 2/2/2026 3:05 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    On Fri Jan 23 21:29:44 2026 Roger Merriman wrote:
    cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
    On Thu Jan 22 19:05:18 2026 AMuzi wrote:
    On 1/22/2026 6:34 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    I tried to remove the front tire because it was dragging against the >>>>>>> fork top. But thoses tires were so tight that after 2 hours I pulled >>>>>>> out my knife and cut through the sidewalls on both sides and then STILL >>>>>>> had to use the cork scew to get a good enough hold on the remaining >>>>>>> sidewall to pull it off of the tubeless step. I had to do this on both >>>>>>> eides! One of them was STILL too tight to get off over the rim and I had to cut the cord!

    I installed a GP5000 race tire. Luckily I had one 80 mm presta filler innertube left.

    I will ride the DeRosa Merak tomorrow. 43 degrees tomorrow at 9:00 when >>>>>>> we leave and I'm thinking 27 miles but I could push it further. I don't >>>>>>> think so though since my brother is bringing his bike with 23 mm tires >>>>>>> and no doubt this will kill this crotch.

    I can tell the difference between 30 mm and 28 mm but 28 is good enough.

    Push the beads over to the center of the rim where the
    diameter is smaller.




    I spent two full hours trying to do that without any luck at all. Cutting >>>>> the tire off still hade on side that needed to ber cut completely off >>>>> before it would release. Today the rear tire STILL was thumping even >>>>> though I used your soap trick The wheels were Bontrager tubeless.


    4 Seasons are largely unchanged over the years essentially a faster version
    of the Gatorskins but with summer like rubber compounds ie more planted >>>> handling in the wet, and like the Gatorskins as they haven?t largely been >>>> changed they are tube only.

    You need to practice your technique! Or get someone else to fit them!
    Notoriously difficult tyres such as Marathon pluses are perfectly doable >>>> using the technique that Andrew explained, I?d note that Burly MTB tyres >>>> with reinforced sidewalls are more difficult than M+ by some margin I?m far
    from a good tyre fitter as I only need to do so every few years. But I?ve >>>> never needed to cut any off, and I?m fitting much more challenging tyres. >>>



    Roger, I've been riding and fixing flats for 50 years plus. I know what I'm doing. The world is a different place now that tires too large for rims are around. The 28 mm 4 Seasons come right off without a problem.

    With roughly as long it this, I think I can say I have
    changed more tires than you. So far, I haven't had to cut a
    tire bead to dismount a tire.




    I'm sure that you've certainly changed more tires. Are you calling me a liar? Or are you willing to admit that you might not have seen all -possible problems?

    No, I'm sure it was a frustrating moment.

    What I am suggesting is that your rim liner takes up too
    much space between rim and tire seat. There's precious
    little space to spare on modern 'tubeless compatible' rims.
    --
    Andrew Muzi
    am@yellowjersey.org
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Roger Merriman@roger@sarlet.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Mon Feb 2 22:16:13 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
    On Mon Feb 2 15:19:09 2026 AMuzi wrote:
    On 2/2/2026 3:05 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    On Fri Jan 23 21:29:44 2026 Roger Merriman wrote:
    cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
    On Thu Jan 22 19:05:18 2026 AMuzi wrote:
    On 1/22/2026 6:34 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    I tried to remove the front tire because it was dragging against the >>>>>>> fork top. But thoses tires were so tight that after 2 hours I pulled >>>>>>> out my knife and cut through the sidewalls on both sides and then STILL >>>>>>> had to use the cork scew to get a good enough hold on the remaining >>>>>>> sidewall to pull it off of the tubeless step. I had to do this on both >>>>>>> eides! One of them was STILL too tight to get off over the rim and >>>>>>> I had to cut the cord!

    I installed a GP5000 race tire. Luckily I had one 80 mm presta filler innertube left.

    I will ride the DeRosa Merak tomorrow. 43 degrees tomorrow at 9:00 when >>>>>>> we leave and I'm thinking 27 miles but I could push it further. I don't >>>>>>> think so though since my brother is bringing his bike with 23 mm tires >>>>>>> and no doubt this will kill this crotch.

    I can tell the difference between 30 mm and 28 mm but 28 is good enough.

    Push the beads over to the center of the rim where the
    diameter is smaller.




    I spent two full hours trying to do that without any luck at all. Cutting >>>>> the tire off still hade on side that needed to ber cut completely off >>>>> before it would release. Today the rear tire STILL was thumping even >>>>> though I used your soap trick The wheels were Bontrager tubeless.


    4 Seasons are largely unchanged over the years essentially a faster version
    of the Gatorskins but with summer like rubber compounds ie more planted >>>> handling in the wet, and like the Gatorskins as they haven?t largely been >>>> changed they are tube only.

    You need to practice your technique! Or get someone else to fit them!
    Notoriously difficult tyres such as Marathon pluses are perfectly doable >>>> using the technique that Andrew explained, I?d note that Burly MTB tyres >>>> with reinforced sidewalls are more difficult than M+ by some margin I?m far
    from a good tyre fitter as I only need to do so every few years. But I?ve >>>> never needed to cut any off, and I?m fitting much more challenging tyres. >>>



    Roger, I've been riding and fixing flats for 50 years plus. I know what
    I'm doing. The world is a different place now that tires too large for
    rims are around. The 28 mm 4 Seasons come right off without a problem.

    With roughly as long it this, I think I can say I have
    changed more tires than you. So far, I haven't had to cut a
    tire bead to dismount a tire.




    I'm sure that you've certainly changed more tires. Are you calling me a
    liar? Or are you willing to admit that you might not have seen all -possible problems?

    Cutting a tyre off isnrCOt remotely a normal thing, and your tyres are normal so is your rim etc, this is a Tom thing, IrCOm extremely confident that
    Andrew wouldnrCOt of had to cut the tyre off, and probably changed without
    any drama, as yourCOd expect for someone who changes tyres frequently, as itrCOs part of his job.

    Roger Merriman

    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From zen cycle@funkmasterxx@hotmail.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Tue Feb 3 05:50:26 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On 2/2/2026 5:16 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:
    cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
    On Mon Feb 2 15:19:09 2026 AMuzi wrote:
    On 2/2/2026 3:05 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    On Fri Jan 23 21:29:44 2026 Roger Merriman wrote:
    cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
    On Thu Jan 22 19:05:18 2026 AMuzi wrote:
    On 1/22/2026 6:34 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    I tried to remove the front tire because it was dragging against the >>>>>>>> fork top. But thoses tires were so tight that after 2 hours I pulled >>>>>>>> out my knife and cut through the sidewalls on both sides and then STILL
    had to use the cork scew to get a good enough hold on the remaining >>>>>>>> sidewall to pull it off of the tubeless step. I had to do this on both >>>>>>>> eides! One of them was STILL too tight to get off over the rim and >>>>>>>> I had to cut the cord!

    I installed a GP5000 race tire. Luckily I had one 80 mm presta filler innertube left.

    I will ride the DeRosa Merak tomorrow. 43 degrees tomorrow at 9:00 when
    we leave and I'm thinking 27 miles but I could push it further. I don't
    think so though since my brother is bringing his bike with 23 mm tires >>>>>>>> and no doubt this will kill this crotch.

    I can tell the difference between 30 mm and 28 mm but 28 is good enough.

    Push the beads over to the center of the rim where the
    diameter is smaller.




    I spent two full hours trying to do that without any luck at all. Cutting
    the tire off still hade on side that needed to ber cut completely off >>>>>> before it would release. Today the rear tire STILL was thumping even >>>>>> though I used your soap trick The wheels were Bontrager tubeless.


    4 Seasons are largely unchanged over the years essentially a faster version
    of the Gatorskins but with summer like rubber compounds ie more planted >>>>> handling in the wet, and like the Gatorskins as they haven?t largely been >>>>> changed they are tube only.

    You need to practice your technique! Or get someone else to fit them! >>>>> Notoriously difficult tyres such as Marathon pluses are perfectly doable >>>>> using the technique that Andrew explained, I?d note that Burly MTB tyres >>>>> with reinforced sidewalls are more difficult than M+ by some margin I?m far
    from a good tyre fitter as I only need to do so every few years. But I?ve >>>>> never needed to cut any off, and I?m fitting much more challenging tyres. >>>>



    Roger, I've been riding and fixing flats for 50 years plus. I know what >>>> I'm doing. The world is a different place now that tires too large for >>>> rims are around. The 28 mm 4 Seasons come right off without a problem.

    With roughly as long it this, I think I can say I have
    changed more tires than you. So far, I haven't had to cut a
    tire bead to dismount a tire.




    I'm sure that you've certainly changed more tires. Are you calling me a
    liar? Or are you willing to admit that you might not have seen all -possible problems?

    Cutting a tyre off isnrCOt remotely a normal thing, and your tyres are normal so is your rim etc, this is a Tom thing, IrCOm extremely confident that Andrew wouldnrCOt of had to cut the tyre off, and probably changed without any drama, as yourCOd expect for someone who changes tyres frequently, as itrCOs part of his job.


    Based on which one of them seems to have parts falling off his bikes at regular intervals, I know who I'd rather trust for advice.....
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From =?UTF-8?B?Y3ljbGludG9t?=@cyclintom@yahoo.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Thu Feb 5 21:33:52 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On Mon Feb 2 16:14:37 2026 AMuzi wrote:
    On 2/2/2026 3:37 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    On Mon Feb 2 15:19:09 2026 AMuzi wrote:
    On 2/2/2026 3:05 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    On Fri Jan 23 21:29:44 2026 Roger Merriman wrote:
    cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
    On Thu Jan 22 19:05:18 2026 AMuzi wrote:
    On 1/22/2026 6:34 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    I tried to remove the front tire because it was dragging against the >>>>>>> fork top. But thoses tires were so tight that after 2 hours I pulled >>>>>>> out my knife and cut through the sidewalls on both sides and then STILL
    had to use the cork scew to get a good enough hold on the remaining >>>>>>> sidewall to pull it off of the tubeless step. I had to do this on both
    eides! One of them was STILL too tight to get off over the rim and I had to cut the cord!

    I installed a GP5000 race tire. Luckily I had one 80 mm presta filler innertube left.

    I will ride the DeRosa Merak tomorrow. 43 degrees tomorrow at 9:00 when
    we leave and I'm thinking 27 miles but I could push it further. I don't
    think so though since my brother is bringing his bike with 23 mm tires
    and no doubt this will kill this crotch.

    I can tell the difference between 30 mm and 28 mm but 28 is good enough.

    Push the beads over to the center of the rim where the
    diameter is smaller.




    I spent two full hours trying to do that without any luck at all. Cutting
    the tire off still hade on side that needed to ber cut completely off >>>>> before it would release. Today the rear tire STILL was thumping even >>>>> though I used your soap trick The wheels were Bontrager tubeless.


    4 Seasons are largely unchanged over the years essentially a faster version
    of the Gatorskins but with summer like rubber compounds ie more planted >>>> handling in the wet, and like the Gatorskins as they haven?t largely been
    changed they are tube only.

    You need to practice your technique! Or get someone else to fit them! >>>> Notoriously difficult tyres such as Marathon pluses are perfectly doable >>>> using the technique that Andrew explained, I?d note that Burly MTB tyres >>>> with reinforced sidewalls are more difficult than M+ by some margin I?m far
    from a good tyre fitter as I only need to do so every few years. But I?ve
    never needed to cut any off, and I?m fitting much more challenging tyres.




    Roger, I've been riding and fixing flats for 50 years plus. I know what I'm doing. The world is a different place now that tires too large for rims are around. The 28 mm 4 Seasons come right off without a problem.

    With roughly as long it this, I think I can say I have
    changed more tires than you. So far, I haven't had to cut a
    tire bead to dismount a tire.




    I'm sure that you've certainly changed more tires. Are you calling me a liar? Or are you willing to admit that you might not have seen all -possible problems?

    No, I'm sure it was a frustrating moment.

    What I am suggesting is that your rim liner takes up too
    much space between rim and tire seat. There's precious
    little space to spare on modern 'tubeless compatible' rims.
    That's certainly a possibility but what I saw was that I could not get the cord to move at all until I cut the tire off. Then I used a cork screw to try and get under the cord. That would not happen but I could hook the sidewall above the cord and pull it into the middle. From there on side could be pulled off but the other side still would not be worked over the rim until I cut through the cord.
    I did try to work the cord into the center pit for over 2 hours before I resorted to trashing the tire.
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From =?UTF-8?B?Y3ljbGludG9t?=@cyclintom@yahoo.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Thu Feb 5 21:38:38 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On Mon Feb 2 22:16:13 2026 Roger Merriman wrote:
    cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
    On Mon Feb 2 15:19:09 2026 AMuzi wrote:
    On 2/2/2026 3:05 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    On Fri Jan 23 21:29:44 2026 Roger Merriman wrote:
    cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
    On Thu Jan 22 19:05:18 2026 AMuzi wrote:
    On 1/22/2026 6:34 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    I tried to remove the front tire because it was dragging against the >>>>>>> fork top. But thoses tires were so tight that after 2 hours I pulled >>>>>>> out my knife and cut through the sidewalls on both sides and then STILL
    had to use the cork scew to get a good enough hold on the remaining >>>>>>> sidewall to pull it off of the tubeless step. I had to do this on both
    eides! One of them was STILL too tight to get off over the rim and >>>>>>> I had to cut the cord!

    I installed a GP5000 race tire. Luckily I had one 80 mm presta filler innertube left.

    I will ride the DeRosa Merak tomorrow. 43 degrees tomorrow at 9:00 when
    we leave and I'm thinking 27 miles but I could push it further. I don't
    think so though since my brother is bringing his bike with 23 mm tires
    and no doubt this will kill this crotch.

    I can tell the difference between 30 mm and 28 mm but 28 is good enough.

    Push the beads over to the center of the rim where the
    diameter is smaller.




    I spent two full hours trying to do that without any luck at all. Cutting
    the tire off still hade on side that needed to ber cut completely off >>>>> before it would release. Today the rear tire STILL was thumping even >>>>> though I used your soap trick The wheels were Bontrager tubeless.


    4 Seasons are largely unchanged over the years essentially a faster version
    of the Gatorskins but with summer like rubber compounds ie more planted >>>> handling in the wet, and like the Gatorskins as they haven?t largely been
    changed they are tube only.

    You need to practice your technique! Or get someone else to fit them! >>>> Notoriously difficult tyres such as Marathon pluses are perfectly doable >>>> using the technique that Andrew explained, I?d note that Burly MTB tyres >>>> with reinforced sidewalls are more difficult than M+ by some margin I?m far
    from a good tyre fitter as I only need to do so every few years. But I?ve
    never needed to cut any off, and I?m fitting much more challenging tyres.




    Roger, I've been riding and fixing flats for 50 years plus. I know what >>> I'm doing. The world is a different place now that tires too large for >>> rims are around. The 28 mm 4 Seasons come right off without a problem.

    With roughly as long it this, I think I can say I have
    changed more tires than you. So far, I haven't had to cut a
    tire bead to dismount a tire.




    I'm sure that you've certainly changed more tires. Are you calling me a liar? Or are you willing to admit that you might not have seen all -possible problems?

    Cutting a tyre off isn?t remotely a normal thing, and your tyres are normal so is your rim etc, this is a Tom thing, I?m extremely confident that
    Andrew wouldn?t of had to cut the tyre off, and probably changed without
    any drama, as you?d expect for someone who changes tyres frequently, as
    it?s part of his job.
    I'm totally in agreement with you Roger. But I couldn't get these tires on easily either and resorted to using a "tire jack" to get the cord over the edge of the sidewall of the rim. I will no longer use 32 mm tires. While they are noticeably softer riding what if I got a flat out in the middle of nowhere? the 28's work well enough so that is what I will stick with.
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From AMuzi@am@yellowjersey.org to rec.bicycles.tech on Thu Feb 5 16:20:55 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On 2/5/2026 3:38 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    On Mon Feb 2 22:16:13 2026 Roger Merriman wrote:
    cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
    On Mon Feb 2 15:19:09 2026 AMuzi wrote:
    On 2/2/2026 3:05 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    On Fri Jan 23 21:29:44 2026 Roger Merriman wrote:
    cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
    On Thu Jan 22 19:05:18 2026 AMuzi wrote:
    On 1/22/2026 6:34 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    I tried to remove the front tire because it was dragging against the >>>>>>>>> fork top. But thoses tires were so tight that after 2 hours I pulled >>>>>>>>> out my knife and cut through the sidewalls on both sides and then STILL
    had to use the cork scew to get a good enough hold on the remaining >>>>>>>>> sidewall to pull it off of the tubeless step. I had to do this on both
    eides! One of them was STILL too tight to get off over the rim and >>>>>>>>> I had to cut the cord!

    I installed a GP5000 race tire. Luckily I had one 80 mm presta filler innertube left.

    I will ride the DeRosa Merak tomorrow. 43 degrees tomorrow at 9:00 when
    we leave and I'm thinking 27 miles but I could push it further. I don't
    think so though since my brother is bringing his bike with 23 mm tires
    and no doubt this will kill this crotch.

    I can tell the difference between 30 mm and 28 mm but 28 is good enough.

    Push the beads over to the center of the rim where the
    diameter is smaller.




    I spent two full hours trying to do that without any luck at all. Cutting
    the tire off still hade on side that needed to ber cut completely off >>>>>>> before it would release. Today the rear tire STILL was thumping even >>>>>>> though I used your soap trick The wheels were Bontrager tubeless. >>>>>>>

    4 Seasons are largely unchanged over the years essentially a faster version
    of the Gatorskins but with summer like rubber compounds ie more planted >>>>>> handling in the wet, and like the Gatorskins as they haven?t largely been
    changed they are tube only.

    You need to practice your technique! Or get someone else to fit them! >>>>>> Notoriously difficult tyres such as Marathon pluses are perfectly doable >>>>>> using the technique that Andrew explained, I?d note that Burly MTB tyres >>>>>> with reinforced sidewalls are more difficult than M+ by some margin I?m far
    from a good tyre fitter as I only need to do so every few years. But I?ve
    never needed to cut any off, and I?m fitting much more challenging tyres.




    Roger, I've been riding and fixing flats for 50 years plus. I know what >>>>> I'm doing. The world is a different place now that tires too large for >>>>> rims are around. The 28 mm 4 Seasons come right off without a problem. >>>>
    With roughly as long it this, I think I can say I have
    changed more tires than you. So far, I haven't had to cut a
    tire bead to dismount a tire.




    I'm sure that you've certainly changed more tires. Are you calling me a
    liar? Or are you willing to admit that you might not have seen all -possible problems?

    Cutting a tyre off isn?t remotely a normal thing, and your tyres are normal >> so is your rim etc, this is a Tom thing, I?m extremely confident that
    Andrew wouldn?t of had to cut the tyre off, and probably changed without
    any drama, as you?d expect for someone who changes tyres frequently, as
    it?s part of his job.




    I'm totally in agreement with you Roger. But I couldn't get these tires on easily either and resorted to using a "tire jack" to get the cord over the edge of the sidewall of the rim. I will no longer use 32 mm tires. While they are noticeably softer riding what if I got a flat out in the middle of nowhere? the 28's work well enough so that is what I will stick with.

    Tires are quite uniform compared to rim sections (which have
    become too shallow in the center in many cases).

    Your rim liner should not occlude the bead seat in most
    cases*; it need only cover the nipple wells.

    Also, thinner rim liners greatly assist tire changes where
    rim centers are poorly designed.

    * Where absolutely necessary, use Velocity or similar ultra
    thin rim liners.

    https://vimeo.com/154880473?fl=pl&fe=cm#t=1m54s
    --
    Andrew Muzi
    am@yellowjersey.org
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From =?UTF-8?B?Y3ljbGludG9t?=@cyclintom@yahoo.com to rec.bicycles.tech on Sat Feb 7 20:39:51 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On Thu Feb 5 16:20:55 2026 AMuzi wrote:

    Tires are quite uniform compared to rim sections (which have
    become too shallow in the center in many cases).

    Your rim liner should not occlude the bead seat in most
    cases*; it need only cover the nipple wells.

    Also, thinner rim liners greatly assist tire changes where
    rim centers are poorly designed.

    * Where absolutely necessary, use Velocity or similar ultra
    thin rim liners.

    https://vimeo.com/154880473?fl=3dpl&fe=3dcm#t=3d1m54s
    I can't remember now but that may have been the peoblem. But none of these problems occurred using 28 mm tires. Perhaps the quality control on the 28's has been worked out.
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From AMuzi@am@yellowjersey.org to rec.bicycles.tech on Sat Feb 7 14:52:22 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.bicycles.tech

    On 2/7/2026 2:39 PM, cyclintom wrote:
    On Thu Feb 5 16:20:55 2026 AMuzi wrote:

    Tires are quite uniform compared to rim sections (which have
    become too shallow in the center in many cases).

    Your rim liner should not occlude the bead seat in most
    cases*; it need only cover the nipple wells.

    Also, thinner rim liners greatly assist tire changes where
    rim centers are poorly designed.

    * Where absolutely necessary, use Velocity or similar ultra
    thin rim liners.

    https://vimeo.com/154880473?fl=pl&fe=cm#t=1m54s




    I can't remember now but that may have been the peoblem. But none of these problems occurred using 28 mm tires. Perhaps the quality control on the 28's has been worked out.

    A tire mold for one SKU is a hugely expensive bit of tooling
    and garners fanatical myopic attention from the engineers
    and die makers. Each mold runs tens of millions of
    iterations over its lifetime. Tires just don't significantly
    vary.

    Modern rim sections do vary, significantly, and especially
    so as regards the differential between bead seat diameter
    and the depth of the center well. This is readily observed.

    But the most probable source of your trouble is the rim liner.
    --
    Andrew Muzi
    am@yellowjersey.org
    Open every day since 1 April, 1971
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2