I just finished reading about the new taxes and it made some mention
of medical insurance. Is it correct that citizens in the U.S. can't
afford to pay for medical and must have some sort of insurance in
order to afford medical treatment?
--
cheers,
John B.
On 1/1/2026 1:57 AM, John B. wrote:
I just finished reading about the new taxes and it made some mention
of medical insurance. Is it correct that citizens in the U.S. can't
afford to pay for medical and must have some sort of insurance in
order to afford medical treatment?
--
cheers,
John B.
Effectively yes.
All the various pyramid schemes revolve around fictitious 'discounts' in myriad contracts.-a An insured person is only covered at facilities affiliated with that particular insurer (and many do not accept relief payments from people on government programs).-a For any given billing number*, the insurer pays some discounted amount from an inflated 'list price' and payments are of course delayed, increasing the float and
interest income for the insurer (as with any insurance structure).-a Woe
to the cash customer who gets billed, for example, $4000 on the way out
the door for service routinely paid 90 days later by an insurer at $1200.
*the government's electronic billing mandate made fortunes for the firms
who generate the billing codes.
On 1/1/2026 7:43 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/1/2026 1:57 AM, John B. wrote:Many errors in medical billing on all side. I did this for a
I just finished reading about the new taxes and it made
some mention
of medical insurance. Is it correct that citizens in the
U.S. can't
afford to pay for medical and must have some sort of
insurance in
order to afford medical treatment?
--
cheers,
John B.
Effectively yes.
All the various pyramid schemes revolve around fictitious
'discounts' in myriad contracts.-a An insured person is
only covered at facilities affiliated with that particular
insurer (and many do not accept relief payments from
people on government programs).-a For any given billing
number*, the insurer pays some discounted amount from an
inflated 'list price' and payments are of course delayed,
increasing the float and interest income for the insurer
(as with any insurance structure).-a Woe to the cash
customer who gets billed, for example, $4000 on the way
out the door for service routinely paid 90 days later by
an insurer at $1200.
*the government's electronic billing mandate made fortunes
for the firms who generate the billing codes.
living working for State of Illinois. After my crash I had
huge medical bills but I have good insurance. Still many
errors that added things wrong. I found in excess of $10,000
billed wrong.
First error my insurance said I owed a $275 emergency room
co payment because I was not admitted to the hospital. I
called them and said I most certainly was admitted, in fact
they helicopter ambulance from the ER to the sister Hospital
for surgery. Granted is not the exact hospital but I was
admitted right after the ER visit. My insurance company did
fixed that and of course that saved me $275.
Then I get a bill from some lab corporation for labs fees I
owed over $700. I called and told them I was an inpatient
and those fees are all covered %100 no co-pays. Sure enough
the lab billing did not bill the service correctly according
to code. They simply send the bills out and figure some may
just pay the money and ask no questions. When I called them
they even admitted right then it was a bill coding error.
I am fighting an ambulance ride as my insurance paid $2097
of the $3018 total. They claim ambulance out of network I
owe $921 more. My insurance billed it as in network and said
I did not owe any more. Checking on the insurance laws in
Illinois they have the no surprise billing for being out of
network. I filed a claim with Illinois Attorney General as I
tried to negotiate a price with them they ignored me. I am
not paying them that they can bill anything and you have to
pay. My Helicopter ride was paid by insurance no additional
cost to me.
Finally there were more bills coded wrong and the medical
providers did agree and were re-billing. However it never
stopped them from sending out the bills as if some really
owed the amount.
To go even further some prosthetic company had an order for
a AFO because I had foot drop. They dropped it off an off
the shelf AFO. I did not need it and it made this worse
because I did not have true foot drop it was from surgery
and recovery would come in a few weeks. I told the prothetic
company I was returning this as it did not work. They said I
could not return it as a custom orthopedic device. I said no
it was not you dropped it off and told me how to wear it. I
ended up taking it right back the company and demanding they
take it back as incorrect and not even needed. They did
actually take it back and gave me a receipt saying I did not
owe the $174 co payment. They knew damn well I did not have
true foot drop. Fraud and I called them on it and i believe
that is why they took it back.
I am done today.
On 1/1/2026 7:43 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/1/2026 1:57 AM, John B. wrote:Many errors in medical billing on all side. I did this for a living
I just finished reading about the new taxes and it made some mention
of medical insurance. Is it correct that citizens in the U.S. can't
afford to pay for medical and must have some sort of insurance in
order to afford medical treatment?
--
cheers,
John B.
Effectively yes.
All the various pyramid schemes revolve around fictitious 'discounts' in
myriad contracts.a An insured person is only covered at facilities
affiliated with that particular insurer (and many do not accept relief
payments from people on government programs).a For any given billing
number*, the insurer pays some discounted amount from an inflated 'list
price' and payments are of course delayed, increasing the float and
interest income for the insurer (as with any insurance structure).a Woe
to the cash customer who gets billed, for example, $4000 on the way out
the door for service routinely paid 90 days later by an insurer at $1200.
*the government's electronic billing mandate made fortunes for the firms
who generate the billing codes.
working for State of Illinois. After my crash I had huge medical bills
but I have good insurance. Still many errors that added things wrong. I >found in excess of $10,000 billed wrong.
First error my insurance said I owed a $275 emergency room co payment >because I was not admitted to the hospital. I called them and said I
most certainly was admitted, in fact they helicopter ambulance from the
ER to the sister Hospital for surgery. Granted is not the exact hospital
but I was admitted right after the ER visit. My insurance company did
fixed that and of course that saved me $275.
Then I get a bill from some lab corporation for labs fees I owed over
$700. I called and told them I was an inpatient and those fees are all >covered %100 no co-pays. Sure enough the lab billing did not bill the >service correctly according to code. They simply send the bills out and >figure some may just pay the money and ask no questions. When I called
them they even admitted right then it was a bill coding error.
I am fighting an ambulance ride as my insurance paid $2097 of the $3018 >total. They claim ambulance out of network I owe $921 more. My insurance >billed it as in network and said I did not owe any more. Checking on the >insurance laws in Illinois they have the no surprise billing for being
out of network. I filed a claim with Illinois Attorney General as I
tried to negotiate a price with them they ignored me. I am not paying
them that they can bill anything and you have to pay. My Helicopter ride
was paid by insurance no additional cost to me.
Finally there were more bills coded wrong and the medical providers did >agree and were re-billing. However it never stopped them from sending
out the bills as if some really owed the amount.
To go even further some prosthetic company had an order for a AFO
because I had foot drop. They dropped it off an off the shelf AFO. I did
not need it and it made this worse because I did not have true foot drop
it was from surgery and recovery would come in a few weeks. I told the >prothetic company I was returning this as it did not work. They said I
could not return it as a custom orthopedic device. I said no it was not
you dropped it off and told me how to wear it. I ended up taking it
right back the company and demanding they take it back as incorrect and
not even needed. They did actually take it back and gave me a receipt
saying I did not owe the $174 co payment. They knew damn well I did not
have true foot drop. Fraud and I called them on it and i believe that is
why they took it back.
I am done today.
I just finished reading about the new taxes and it made some mentionThiz is true under any free enterprise system.
of medical insurance. Is it correct that citizens in the U.S. can't
afford to pay for medical and must have some sort of insurance in
order to afford medical treatment?
On 1/1/2026 10:04 AM, Mark J cleary wrote:
On 1/1/2026 7:43 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/1/2026 1:57 AM, John B. wrote:
I just finished reading about the new taxes and it made
some mention
of medical insurance. Is it correct that citizens in the
U.S. can't
afford to pay for medical and must have some sort of
insurance in
order to afford medical treatment?
--
cheers,
John B.
Effectively yes.
All the various pyramid schemes revolve around fictitious
'discounts' in myriad contracts.--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
On Wed Dec 31 23:57:38 2025 John B. wrote:
I just finished reading about the new taxes and it made some mention
of medical insurance. Is it correct that citizens in the U.S. can't
afford to pay for medical and must have some sort of insurance in
order to afford medical treatment?
Thiz is true under any free enterprise system.
On Thu, 01 Jan 2026 18:02:50 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Wed Dec 31 23:57:38 2025 John B. wrote:
I just finished reading about the new taxes and it made some mention
of medical insurance. Is it correct that citizens in the U.S. can't
afford to pay for medical and must have some sort of insurance in
order to afford medical treatment?
Thiz is true under any free enterprise system.
you mean like:
top countries that have free healthcare:
Canada
United Kingdom
Australia
Norway
Germany
France
Sweden
Brazil
South Korea
Denmark
--
cheers,
John B.
On 1/1/2026 8:13 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 01 Jan 2026 18:02:50 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Wed Dec 31 23:57:38 2025 John B. wrote:
I just finished reading about the new taxes and it made some mention
of medical insurance. Is it correct that citizens in the U.S. can't
afford to pay for medical and must have some sort of insurance in
order to afford medical treatment?
Thiz is true under any free enterprise system.
you mean like:
top countries that have free healthcare:
Canada
United Kingdom
Australia
Norway
Germany
France
Sweden
Brazil
South Korea
Denmark
--
cheers,
John B.
We in USA do have free health care- for illegal non-citizens
and deadbeats. So there's that.
On Thu, 1 Jan 2026 20:24:18 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 1/1/2026 8:13 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 01 Jan 2026 18:02:50 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Wed Dec 31 23:57:38 2025 John B. wrote:
I just finished reading about the new taxes and it made some mention >>>>> of medical insurance. Is it correct that citizens in the U.S. can't
afford to pay for medical and must have some sort of insurance in
order to afford medical treatment?
Thiz is true under any free enterprise system.
you mean like:
top countries that have free healthcare:
Canada
United Kingdom
Australia
Norway
Germany
France
Sweden
Brazil
South Korea
Denmark
--
cheers,
John B.
We in USA do have free health care- for illegal non-citizens
and deadbeats. So there's that.
Is that for ALL illegal non-citizens?
As an aside, there was a short discussion about drug users and the
seemly assumption that nothing can be done about it. As I still have
some memories of my living Singapore I had a look at their laws:
The penalty for possessing drugs is a maximum of 10 yearsrCO
imprisonment, or a fine of $20,000 or both.
The penalty for consuming either controlled or specified drugs is a
maximum of 10 yearsrCO imprisonment and a fine of $20,000.
Depending on the class and the quantity of the drugs trafficked, the
penalty ranges from imprisonment and strokes of cane to the mandatory
death penalty.
For example, if you are convicted of trafficking controlled drugs
containing more than 250 grammes of rCLicerCY, you will face a mandatory death penalty.
Drug use in Singapore:
study's reveal that the lifetime and past 12-month prevalence of
illicit drug consumption in Singapore are 2.3% and 0.7%, respectively.
--
cheers,
John B.
On Thu, 1 Jan 2026 10:04:42 -0600, Mark J cleary
<mcleary08@comcast.net> wrote:
On 1/1/2026 7:43 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/1/2026 1:57 AM, John B. wrote:Many errors in medical billing on all side. I did this for a living
I just finished reading about the new taxes and it made some mention
of medical insurance. Is it correct that citizens in the U.S. can't
afford to pay for medical and must have some sort of insurance in
order to afford medical treatment?
--
cheers,
John B.
Effectively yes.
All the various pyramid schemes revolve around fictitious 'discounts' in >>> myriad contracts.-a An insured person is only covered at facilities
affiliated with that particular insurer (and many do not accept relief
payments from people on government programs).-a For any given billing
number*, the insurer pays some discounted amount from an inflated 'list
price' and payments are of course delayed, increasing the float and
interest income for the insurer (as with any insurance structure).-a Woe >>> to the cash customer who gets billed, for example, $4000 on the way out
the door for service routinely paid 90 days later by an insurer at $1200. >>>
*the government's electronic billing mandate made fortunes for the firms >>> who generate the billing codes.
working for State of Illinois. After my crash I had huge medical bills
but I have good insurance. Still many errors that added things wrong. I
found in excess of $10,000 billed wrong.
First error my insurance said I owed a $275 emergency room co payment
because I was not admitted to the hospital. I called them and said I
most certainly was admitted, in fact they helicopter ambulance from the
ER to the sister Hospital for surgery. Granted is not the exact hospital
but I was admitted right after the ER visit. My insurance company did
fixed that and of course that saved me $275.
Then I get a bill from some lab corporation for labs fees I owed over
$700. I called and told them I was an inpatient and those fees are all
covered %100 no co-pays. Sure enough the lab billing did not bill the
service correctly according to code. They simply send the bills out and
figure some may just pay the money and ask no questions. When I called
them they even admitted right then it was a bill coding error.
I am fighting an ambulance ride as my insurance paid $2097 of the $3018
total. They claim ambulance out of network I owe $921 more. My insurance
billed it as in network and said I did not owe any more. Checking on the
insurance laws in Illinois they have the no surprise billing for being
out of network. I filed a claim with Illinois Attorney General as I
tried to negotiate a price with them they ignored me. I am not paying
them that they can bill anything and you have to pay. My Helicopter ride
was paid by insurance no additional cost to me.
Finally there were more bills coded wrong and the medical providers did
agree and were re-billing. However it never stopped them from sending
out the bills as if some really owed the amount.
To go even further some prosthetic company had an order for a AFO
because I had foot drop. They dropped it off an off the shelf AFO. I did
not need it and it made this worse because I did not have true foot drop
it was from surgery and recovery would come in a few weeks. I told the
prothetic company I was returning this as it did not work. They said I
could not return it as a custom orthopedic device. I said no it was not
you dropped it off and told me how to wear it. I ended up taking it
right back the company and demanding they take it back as incorrect and
not even needed. They did actually take it back and gave me a receipt
saying I did not owe the $174 co payment. They knew damn well I did not
have true foot drop. Fraud and I called them on it and i believe that is
why they took it back.
I am done today.
After my mini heart attack, my temporary doctor's office called me and
said they require that I make an appointment for a follow up on how to proceed.
Me, being me asked, "what happens if I don't?"
I didn't.
Later, I checked my insurance and discovered that they got billed $20
an office person to make that call.
--
C'est bon
Soloman
On 1/1/2026 10:35 AM, Catrike Ryder wrote:
On Thu, 1 Jan 2026 10:04:42 -0600, Mark J cleary
<mcleary08@comcast.net> wrote:
On 1/1/2026 7:43 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/1/2026 1:57 AM, John B. wrote:
I just finished reading about the new taxes and it made some mention >>>> of medical insurance. Is it correct that citizens in the U.S. can't
afford to pay for medical and must have some sort of insurance in
order to afford medical treatment?
--
cheers,
John B.
Effectively yes.
All the various pyramid schemes revolve around fictitious 'discounts' in >>> myriad contracts.--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
On 1/1/2026 11:28 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 1 Jan 2026 20:24:18 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 1/1/2026 8:13 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 01 Jan 2026 18:02:50 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Wed Dec 31 23:57:38 2025 John B. wrote:
I just finished reading about the new taxes and it made some mention >>>>>> of medical insurance. Is it correct that citizens in the U.S. can't >>>>>> afford to pay for medical and must have some sort of insurance in
order to afford medical treatment?
Thiz is true under any free enterprise system.
you mean like:
top countries that have free healthcare:
Canada
United Kingdom
Australia
Norway
Germany
France
Sweden
Brazil
South Korea
Denmark
--
cheers,
John B.
We in USA do have free health care- for illegal non-citizens
and deadbeats. So there's that.
Is that for ALL illegal non-citizens?
As an aside, there was a short discussion about drug users and the
seemly assumption that nothing can be done about it. As I still have
some memories of my living Singapore I had a look at their laws:
The penalty for possessing drugs is a maximum of 10 yearsA
imprisonment, or a fine of $20,000 or both.
The penalty for consuming either controlled or specified drugs is a
maximum of 10 yearsA imprisonment and a fine of $20,000.
Depending on the class and the quantity of the drugs trafficked, the
penalty ranges from imprisonment and strokes of cane to the mandatory
death penalty.
For example, if you are convicted of trafficking controlled drugs
containing more than 250 grammes of oiceo, you will face a mandatory
death penalty.
Drug use in Singapore:
study's reveal that the lifetime and past 12-month prevalence of
illicit drug consumption in Singapore are 2.3% and 0.7%, respectively.
--
cheers,
John B.
Well, as you have previously mentioned here, nice laws are
nice but enforcement is another matter altogether. Singapore
actually enforces her laws.
https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/singapore-announces-plans-to-execute-more-death-sentenced-prisoners-convicted-of-non-violent-drug-offenses
Compare to Chicago for example where use of a firearm in
commission of a felony is a separate charge with a mandatory
mini8mum 5 years. It's almost never charged. How's that going?
https://heyjackass.com/#
Beyond that, possession of a full automatic firearm without
the tax and permit is a Federal offense with stiff penalties:
https://legalclarity.org/what-happens-if-you-get-caught-with-a-fully-automatic-weapon/
[up to ten years and up to a quarter million dollar fine]
When full auto weapons used in crime were extremely rare,
the few cases were regularly forwarded to the US Attorney
and vigorously prosecuted. Now that they are common:
https://justgunswitch.com/product/glock-switch/
prosecutions are rare.
p.s. While I do not advocate capital punishment, Singapore
deserves much credit for enforcing her laws as written. If I
were a Singapore citizen I would press for a Statute change,
but since I'm not I don't.
On Fri, 2 Jan 2026 08:18:27 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 1/1/2026 11:28 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 1 Jan 2026 20:24:18 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 1/1/2026 8:13 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 01 Jan 2026 18:02:50 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Wed Dec 31 23:57:38 2025 John B. wrote:
I just finished reading about the new taxes and it made some mention >>>>>>> of medical insurance. Is it correct that citizens in the U.S. can't >>>>>>> afford to pay for medical and must have some sort of insurance in >>>>>>> order to afford medical treatment?
Thiz is true under any free enterprise system.
you mean like:
top countries that have free healthcare:
Canada
United Kingdom
Australia
Norway
Germany
France
Sweden
Brazil
South Korea
Denmark
--
cheers,
John B.
We in USA do have free health care- for illegal non-citizens
and deadbeats. So there's that.
Is that for ALL illegal non-citizens?
As an aside, there was a short discussion about drug users and the
seemly assumption that nothing can be done about it. As I still have
some memories of my living Singapore I had a look at their laws:
The penalty for possessing drugs is a maximum of 10 yearsrCO
imprisonment, or a fine of $20,000 or both.
The penalty for consuming either controlled or specified drugs is a
maximum of 10 yearsrCO imprisonment and a fine of $20,000.
Depending on the class and the quantity of the drugs trafficked, the
penalty ranges from imprisonment and strokes of cane to the mandatory
death penalty.
For example, if you are convicted of trafficking controlled drugs
containing more than 250 grammes of rCLicerCY, you will face a mandatory >>> death penalty.
Drug use in Singapore:
study's reveal that the lifetime and past 12-month prevalence of
illicit drug consumption in Singapore are 2.3% and 0.7%, respectively.
--
cheers,
John B.
Well, as you have previously mentioned here, nice laws are
nice but enforcement is another matter altogether. Singapore
actually enforces her laws.
https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/singapore-announces-plans-to-execute-more-death-sentenced-prisoners-convicted-of-non-violent-drug-offenses
Compare to Chicago for example where use of a firearm in
commission of a felony is a separate charge with a mandatory
mini8mum 5 years. It's almost never charged. How's that going?
https://heyjackass.com/#
Beyond that, possession of a full automatic firearm without
the tax and permit is a Federal offense with stiff penalties:
https://legalclarity.org/what-happens-if-you-get-caught-with-a-fully-automatic-weapon/
[up to ten years and up to a quarter million dollar fine]
When full auto weapons used in crime were extremely rare,
the few cases were regularly forwarded to the US Attorney
and vigorously prosecuted. Now that they are common:
https://justgunswitch.com/product/glock-switch/
prosecutions are rare.
p.s. While I do not advocate capital punishment, Singapore
deserves much credit for enforcing her laws as written. If I
were a Singapore citizen I would press for a Statute change,
but since I'm not I don't.
I would comment that if a law,and and penality, exist and you violate
it then why the great cry against enforcing it?
--
cheers,
John B.
Later, I checked my insurance and discovered that they got billed $20
an office person to make that call.
Perhaps Governor Loathsome might realize that he cannot hand out
taxpayer money to millions of illegals without victimizing legal
California taxpayers.
On 1/2/2026 7:45 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 2 Jan 2026 08:18:27 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 1/1/2026 11:28 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 1 Jan 2026 20:24:18 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 1/1/2026 8:13 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 01 Jan 2026 18:02:50 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Wed Dec 31 23:57:38 2025 John B. wrote:
I just finished reading about the new taxes and it made some mention >>>>>>>> of medical insurance. Is it correct that citizens in the U.S. can't >>>>>>>> afford to pay for medical and must have some sort of insurance in >>>>>>>> order to afford medical treatment?
Thiz is true under any free enterprise system.
you mean like:
top countries that have free healthcare:
Canada
United Kingdom
Australia
Norway
Germany
France
Sweden
Brazil
South Korea
Denmark
--
cheers,
John B.
We in USA do have free health care- for illegal non-citizens
and deadbeats. So there's that.
Is that for ALL illegal non-citizens?
As an aside, there was a short discussion about drug users and the
seemly assumption that nothing can be done about it. As I still have
some memories of my living Singapore I had a look at their laws:
The penalty for possessing drugs is a maximum of 10 yearsA
imprisonment, or a fine of $20,000 or both.
The penalty for consuming either controlled or specified drugs is a
maximum of 10 yearsA imprisonment and a fine of $20,000.
Depending on the class and the quantity of the drugs trafficked, the
penalty ranges from imprisonment and strokes of cane to the mandatory
death penalty.
For example, if you are convicted of trafficking controlled drugs
containing more than 250 grammes of oiceo, you will face a mandatory
death penalty.
Drug use in Singapore:
study's reveal that the lifetime and past 12-month prevalence of
illicit drug consumption in Singapore are 2.3% and 0.7%, respectively. >>>> --
cheers,
John B.
Well, as you have previously mentioned here, nice laws are
nice but enforcement is another matter altogether. Singapore
actually enforces her laws.
https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/singapore-announces-plans-to-execute-more-death-sentenced-prisoners-convicted-of-non-violent-drug-offenses
Compare to Chicago for example where use of a firearm in
commission of a felony is a separate charge with a mandatory
mini8mum 5 years. It's almost never charged. How's that going?
https://heyjackass.com/#
Beyond that, possession of a full automatic firearm without
the tax and permit is a Federal offense with stiff penalties:
https://legalclarity.org/what-happens-if-you-get-caught-with-a-fully-automatic-weapon/
[up to ten years and up to a quarter million dollar fine]
When full auto weapons used in crime were extremely rare,
the few cases were regularly forwarded to the US Attorney
and vigorously prosecuted. Now that they are common:
https://justgunswitch.com/product/glock-switch/
prosecutions are rare.
p.s. While I do not advocate capital punishment, Singapore
deserves much credit for enforcing her laws as written. If I
were a Singapore citizen I would press for a Statute change,
but since I'm not I don't.
I would comment that if a law,and and penality, exist and you violate
it then why the great cry against enforcing it?
--
cheers,
John B.
+1
We are one on that.
In article <XqW5R.1287163$Lzl2.190001@fx15.iad>, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
Perhaps Governor Loathsome might realize that he cannot hand out
taxpayer money to millions of illegals without victimizing legal
California taxpayers.
You should naturalize them so they pay taxes to cover your medicare.
On 1/1/2026 8:13 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 01 Jan 2026 18:02:50 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Wed Dec 31 23:57:38 2025 John B.-a wrote:
I just finished reading about the new taxes and it made some mention
of medical insurance. Is it correct that citizens in the U.S. can't
afford to pay for medical and must have some sort of insurance in
order to afford medical treatment?
Thiz is true under any free enterprise system.
you mean like:
top countries that have free healthcare:
Canada
United Kingdom
Australia
Norway
Germany
France
Sweden
Brazil
South Korea
Denmark
--
cheers,
John B.
We in USA do have free health care- for illegal non-citizens
and
deadbeats. So there's that.
In article <XqW5R.1287163$Lzl2.190001@fx15.iad>, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
Perhaps Governor Loathsome might realize that he cannot hand out
taxpayer money to millions of illegals without victimizing legal
California taxpayers.
You should naturalize them so they pay taxes to cover your medicare.
In article <10j7a8h$a63c$24@dont-email.me>, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
We in USA do have free health care- for illegal non-citizens
Not on Obamacare, they don't.
On 1/2/2026 11:56 PM, Beej Jorgensen wrote:
In article <XqW5R.1287163$Lzl2.190001@fx15.iad>, cyclintom
<cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
Perhaps Governor Loathsome might realize that he cannot
hand out
taxpayer money to millions of illegals without
victimizing legal
California taxpayers.
You should naturalize them so they pay taxes to cover your
medicare.
The vast majority of non-citizens in the US pay taxes and
aren't eligible for gvt. sponsored health services.
(contrary to the right-wing narrative, they aren't all
murderers, rapists, drug dealers, or scamming welfare benefits)
On 1/1/2026 9:24 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/1/2026 8:13 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 01 Jan 2026 18:02:50 GMT, cyclintom
<cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Wed Dec 31 23:57:38 2025 John B.-a wrote:
I just finished reading about the new taxes and it made
some mention
of medical insurance. Is it correct that citizens in
the U.S. can't
afford to pay for medical and must have some sort of
insurance in
order to afford medical treatment?
Thiz is true under any free enterprise system.
you mean like:
top countries that have free healthcare:
Canada
United Kingdom
Australia
Norway
Germany
France
Sweden
Brazil
South Korea
Denmark
--
cheers,
John B.
We in USA do have free health care- for illegal non-citizens
Bullshit. non-citizens aren't eligible for federal health
care benefits.
and deadbeats. So there's that.
So lets exclude people who work three jobs to make ends meet
for their families because they can't afford it.
There's this thing called "compassion"...perhaps you should
look into it.
On 1/3/2026 7:15 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 1/1/2026 9:24 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/1/2026 8:13 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 01 Jan 2026 18:02:50 GMT, cyclintom
<cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Wed Dec 31 23:57:38 2025 John B.a wrote:
I just finished reading about the new taxes and it made
some mention
of medical insurance. Is it correct that citizens in
the U.S. can't
afford to pay for medical and must have some sort of
insurance in
order to afford medical treatment?
Thiz is true under any free enterprise system.
you mean like:
top countries that have free healthcare:
Canada
United Kingdom
Australia
Norway
Germany
France
Sweden
Brazil
South Korea
Denmark
--
cheers,
John B.
We in USA do have free health care- for illegal non-citizens
Bullshit. non-citizens aren't eligible for federal health
care benefits.
and deadbeats. So there's that.
So lets exclude people who work three jobs to make ends meet
for their families because they can't afford it.
There's this thing called "compassion"...perhaps you should
look into it.
Under Federal laws of very long standing you would be right
in theory.
But in practice, the various States administer those
programs, that is, it may be Federal money but it's shoveled
into the flames by States.
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2025/may/16/gavin-newsom/free-healthcare-immigrants-California-Trump/
I am compassionate especially so for US waitresses who paid
taxes on their tips, a moral outrage, for 40-odd dark
shameful years. I'm compassionate for all taxpayers and I
will be since their suffering will never end.
And for what? To piss monies into supporting people who
willingly criminally entered our country? Sheesh. A plane
ticket home is cheap by comparison.
On 1/3/2026 7:11 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 1/2/2026 11:56 PM, Beej Jorgensen wrote:
In article <XqW5R.1287163$Lzl2.190001@fx15.iad>, cyclintom
<cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
Perhaps Governor Loathsome might realize that he cannot hand out
taxpayer money to millions of illegals without victimizing legal
California taxpayers.
You should naturalize them so they pay taxes to cover your medicare.
The vast majority of non-citizens in the US pay taxes and aren't
eligible for gvt. sponsored health services. (contrary to the right-
wing narrative, they aren't all murderers, rapists, drug dealers, or
scamming welfare benefits)
Fraudulent use of a SSN (=taxpayer ID number) is a crime. Hiring illegal aliens is a crime. Reporting payroll and also withholding taxes under a fraudulent SSN is a crime.
Oh, and yes, the bulk of illegals are not 'murderers, rapists, drug
dealers'
But also no. The greater bulk of illegals do indeed scam relief in all
its myriad forms from the US taxpayers to the tune of tens of billions
per year every year
monies we actually do not have.-a We're borrowing to
pay interest fer chrissakes, just like a late-stage gambler or alcoholic just before his end.
On 1/3/2026 7:15 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 1/1/2026 9:24 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/1/2026 8:13 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 01 Jan 2026 18:02:50 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Wed Dec 31 23:57:38 2025 John B.-a wrote:
I just finished reading about the new taxes and it made some mention >>>>>> of medical insurance. Is it correct that citizens in the U.S. can't >>>>>> afford to pay for medical and must have some sort of insurance in
order to afford medical treatment?
Thiz is true under any free enterprise system.
you mean like:
top countries that have free healthcare:
Canada
United Kingdom
Australia
Norway
Germany
France
Sweden
Brazil
South Korea
Denmark
--
cheers,
John B.
We in USA do have free health care- for illegal non-citizens
Bullshit. non-citizens aren't eligible for federal health care benefits.
and deadbeats. So there's that.
So lets exclude people who work three jobs to make ends meet for their
families because they can't afford it.
There's this thing called "compassion"...perhaps you should look into it.
Under Federal laws of very long standing you would be right in theory.
But in practice, the various States administer those programs, that is,
it may be Federal money but it's shoveled into the flames by States.
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2025/may/16/gavin-newsom/free- healthcare-immigrants-California-Trump/
I am compassionate especially so for US waitresses who paid taxes on
their tips, a moral outrage, for 40-odd dark shameful years. I'm compassionate for all taxpayers and I will be since their suffering will never end.
And for what? To piss monies into supporting people who willingly
criminally entered our country? Sheesh. A plane ticket home is cheap by comparison.
On 1/3/2026 9:58 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/3/2026 7:11 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 1/2/2026 11:56 PM, Beej Jorgensen wrote:
In article <XqW5R.1287163$Lzl2.190001@fx15.iad>, cyclintom
<cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
Perhaps Governor Loathsome might realize that he cannot
hand out
taxpayer money to millions of illegals without
victimizing legal
California taxpayers.
You should naturalize them so they pay taxes to cover
your medicare.
The vast majority of non-citizens in the US pay taxes and
aren't eligible for gvt. sponsored health services.
(contrary to the right- wing narrative, they aren't all
murderers, rapists, drug dealers, or scamming welfare
benefits)
Fraudulent use of a SSN (=taxpayer ID number) is a crime.
Hiring illegal aliens is a crime. Reporting payroll and
also withholding taxes under a fraudulent SSN is a crime.
No one said it wasn't
Oh, and yes, the bulk of illegals are not 'murderers,
rapists, drug dealers'
But also no. The greater bulk of illegals do indeed scam
relief in all its myriad forms from the US taxpayers to
the tune of tens of billions per year every year
Bullshit. The greater bulk of illegal immigrants are _not_
scamming relief. That's a right-wing lie on the caliber of
Somali immigrants eating cats. Even if it were, tens of
billions is a pittance compared to the 1.7 Trillion FY26
budget.
monies we actually do not have.-a We're borrowing to pay
interest fer chrissakes, just like a late-stage gambler or
alcoholic just before his end.
Very little of which has anything to do with immigrants
scamming the social services.
On 1/3/2026 10:04 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/3/2026 7:15 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 1/1/2026 9:24 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/1/2026 8:13 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 01 Jan 2026 18:02:50 GMT, cyclintom
<cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Wed Dec 31 23:57:38 2025 John B.-a wrote:
I just finished reading about the new taxes and it
made some mention
of medical insurance. Is it correct that citizens in
the U.S. can't
afford to pay for medical and must have some sort of
insurance in
order to afford medical treatment?
Thiz is true under any free enterprise system.
you mean like:
top countries that have free healthcare:
Canada
United Kingdom
Australia
Norway
Germany
France
Sweden
Brazil
South Korea
Denmark
--
cheers,
John B.
We in USA do have free health care- for illegal non-
citizens
Bullshit. non-citizens aren't eligible for federal health
care benefits.
and deadbeats. So there's that.
So lets exclude people who work three jobs to make ends
meet for their families because they can't afford it.
There's this thing called "compassion"...perhaps you
should look into it.
Under Federal laws of very long standing you would be
right in theory.
But in practice, the various States administer those
programs, that is, it may be Federal money but it's
shoveled into the flames by States.
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2025/may/16/gavin-
newsom/free- healthcare-immigrants-California-Trump/
I am compassionate especially so for US waitresses who
paid taxes on their tips, a moral outrage, for 40-odd dark
shameful years. I'm compassionate for all taxpayers and I
will be since their suffering will never end.
And for what? To piss monies into supporting people who
willingly criminally entered our country? Sheesh. A plane
ticket home is cheap by comparison.
And we're back to the "entering the country illegally"
contrivance.
On Thu, 01 Jan 2026 18:02:50 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>Yes
wrote:
On Wed Dec 31 23:57:38 2025 John B. wrote:
I just finished reading about the new taxes and it made some mention
of medical insurance. Is it correct that citizens in the U.S. can't
afford to pay for medical and must have some sort of insurance in
order to afford medical treatment?
Thiz is true under any free enterprise system.
you mean like:
top countries that have free healthcare:
Canada
United Kingdom
Australia
Norway?
GermanyNo. Germans need to pay for health insureance to be elegible for
FranceNo. French people need to pay for health insureance to be elegible for medical treatment.
Sweden?
Brazil
South Korea
Denmark
On 1/3/2026 9:41 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 1/3/2026 9:58 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/3/2026 7:11 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 1/2/2026 11:56 PM, Beej Jorgensen wrote:
In article <XqW5R.1287163$Lzl2.190001@fx15.iad>, cyclintom
<cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
Perhaps Governor Loathsome might realize that he cannot hand out
taxpayer money to millions of illegals without victimizing legal
California taxpayers.
You should naturalize them so they pay taxes to cover your medicare. >>>>>
The vast majority of non-citizens in the US pay taxes and aren't
eligible for gvt. sponsored health services. (contrary to the right-
wing narrative, they aren't all murderers, rapists, drug dealers, or
scamming welfare benefits)
Fraudulent use of a SSN (=taxpayer ID number) is a crime. Hiring
illegal aliens is a crime. Reporting payroll and also withholding
taxes under a fraudulent SSN is a crime.
No one said it wasn't
Oh, and yes, the bulk of illegals are not 'murderers, rapists, drug
dealers'
But also no. The greater bulk of illegals do indeed scam relief in
all its myriad forms from the US taxpayers to the tune of tens of
billions per year every year
Bullshit. The greater bulk of illegal immigrants are _not_ scamming
relief. That's a right-wing lie on the caliber of Somali immigrants
eating cats. Even if it were, tens of billions is a pittance compared
to the 1.7 Trillion FY26 budget.
monies we actually do not have.-a We're borrowing to pay interest fer
chrissakes, just like a late-stage gambler or alcoholic just before
his end.
Very little of which has anything to do with immigrants scamming the
social services.
You are factually incorrect on that point.-a Argument from the left (may
be even higher) says 59%:
https://cis.org/Report/Welfare-Use-Immigrants-and-USBorn
Details presented to the 2024 Congress: https://www.congress.gov/118/meeting/house/116727/witnesses/HHRG-118- JU01-Wstate-CamarotaS-20240111.pdf
A gargantuan amount of money is misdirection of purportedly 'medical coverage' for illegals:
https://thefga.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/10/The-Loopholes-Fueling- Illegal-Alien-Medicaid-and-ObamaCare-Benefits-paper-10-10-25.pdf
[sources in copious footnotes]
Some large chunk of which is straight out fraud in that insurers are
paid to cover nonexistent 'persons' or to cover a person in two states
at once, etc etc.-a The losses are not only for illegal coverage of illegals.-a That is, we have big problems and diversion to illegals is merely one of many.
p.s. the Libertarians note that _lawful_ immigrants have a lower rate of welfare than US citizens, which is and has been true for years, a point
of much conflation:
https://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/2025-02/Briefing-Paper-184.pdf
On 1/3/2026 9:43 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 1/3/2026 10:04 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/3/2026 7:15 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 1/1/2026 9:24 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/1/2026 8:13 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 01 Jan 2026 18:02:50 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Wed Dec 31 23:57:38 2025 John B.-a wrote:
I just finished reading about the new taxes and it made some
mention
of medical insurance. Is it correct that citizens in the U.S. can't >>>>>>>> afford to pay for medical and must have some sort of insurance in >>>>>>>> order to afford medical treatment?
Thiz is true under any free enterprise system.
you mean like:
top countries that have free healthcare:
Canada
United Kingdom
Australia
Norway
Germany
France
Sweden
Brazil
South Korea
Denmark
--
cheers,
John B.
We in USA do have free health care- for illegal non- citizens
Bullshit. non-citizens aren't eligible for federal health care
benefits.
and deadbeats. So there's that.
So lets exclude people who work three jobs to make ends meet for
their families because they can't afford it.
There's this thing called "compassion"...perhaps you should look
into it.
Under Federal laws of very long standing you would be right in theory.
But in practice, the various States administer those programs, that
is, it may be Federal money but it's shoveled into the flames by States. >>>
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2025/may/16/gavin- newsom/free-
healthcare-immigrants-California-Trump/
I am compassionate especially so for US waitresses who paid taxes on
their tips, a moral outrage, for 40-odd dark shameful years. I'm
compassionate for all taxpayers and I will be since their suffering
will never end.
And for what? To piss monies into supporting people who willingly
criminally entered our country? Sheesh. A plane ticket home is cheap
by comparison.
And we're back to the "entering the country illegally" contrivance.
Hmm.
They were kidnapped and dropped here unknowingly?
Or did they enter illegally?
On 1/3/2026 11:14 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/3/2026 9:41 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 1/3/2026 9:58 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/3/2026 7:11 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 1/2/2026 11:56 PM, Beej Jorgensen wrote:
In article <XqW5R.1287163$Lzl2.190001@fx15.iad>,
cyclintom
<cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
Perhaps Governor Loathsome might realize that he
cannot hand out
taxpayer money to millions of illegals without
victimizing legal
California taxpayers.
You should naturalize them so they pay taxes to cover
your medicare.
The vast majority of non-citizens in the US pay taxes
and aren't eligible for gvt. sponsored health services.
(contrary to the right- wing narrative, they aren't all
murderers, rapists, drug dealers, or scamming welfare
benefits)
Fraudulent use of a SSN (=taxpayer ID number) is a
crime. Hiring illegal aliens is a crime. Reporting
payroll and also withholding taxes under a fraudulent
SSN is a crime.
No one said it wasn't
Oh, and yes, the bulk of illegals are not 'murderers,
rapists, drug dealers'
But also no. The greater bulk of illegals do indeed scam
relief in all its myriad forms from the US taxpayers to
the tune of tens of billions per year every year
Bullshit. The greater bulk of illegal immigrants are
_not_ scamming relief. That's a right-wing lie on the
caliber of Somali immigrants eating cats. Even if it
were, tens of billions is a pittance compared to the 1.7
Trillion FY26 budget.
monies we actually do not have.-a We're borrowing to pay
interest fer chrissakes, just like a late-stage gambler
or alcoholic just before his end.
Very little of which has anything to do with immigrants
scamming the social services.
You are factually incorrect on that point.-a Argument from
the left (may be even higher) says 59%:
https://cis.org/Report/Welfare-Use-Immigrants-and-USBorn
You need to reread your link:
"Our best estimate is that 59 percent of households headed
by illegal immigrants, also called the undocumented, use at
least one major program. We have no evidence this is due to
fraud. Among legal immigrants we estimate the rate is 52
percent."
Let me reiterate the salient point:
"We have no evidence this is due to fraud. "
Details presented to the 2024 Congress:
https://www.congress.gov/118/meeting/house/116727/
witnesses/HHRG-118- JU01-Wstate-CamarotaS-20240111.pdf
A gargantuan amount of money is misdirection of
purportedly 'medical coverage' for illegals:
https://thefga.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/10/The-
Loopholes-Fueling- Illegal-Alien-Medicaid-and-ObamaCare-
Benefits-paper-10-10-25.pdf
[sources in copious footnotes]
Some large chunk of which is straight out fraud in that
insurers are paid to cover nonexistent 'persons' or to
cover a person in two states at once, etc etc.-a The losses
are not only for illegal coverage of illegals.-a That is,
we have big problems and diversion to illegals is merely
one of many.
Again, a drop in the bucket.
p.s. the Libertarians note that _lawful_ immigrants have a
lower rate of welfare than US citizens, which is and has
been true for years, a point of much conflation:
https://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/2025-02/
Briefing-Paper-184.pdf
On 1/3/2026 11:15 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/3/2026 9:43 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 1/3/2026 10:04 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/3/2026 7:15 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 1/1/2026 9:24 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/1/2026 8:13 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 01 Jan 2026 18:02:50 GMT, cyclintom
<cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Wed Dec 31 23:57:38 2025 John B.-a wrote:
I just finished reading about the new taxes and it
made some mention
of medical insurance. Is it correct that citizens
in the U.S. can't
afford to pay for medical and must have some sort
of insurance in
order to afford medical treatment?
Thiz is true under any free enterprise system.
you mean like:
top countries that have free healthcare:
Canada
United Kingdom
Australia
Norway
Germany
France
Sweden
Brazil
South Korea
Denmark
--
cheers,
John B.
We in USA do have free health care- for illegal non-
citizens
Bullshit. non-citizens aren't eligible for federal
health care benefits.
and deadbeats. So there's that.
So lets exclude people who work three jobs to make ends
meet for their families because they can't afford it.
There's this thing called "compassion"...perhaps you
should look into it.
Under Federal laws of very long standing you would be
right in theory.
But in practice, the various States administer those
programs, that is, it may be Federal money but it's
shoveled into the flames by States.
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2025/may/16/gavin-
newsom/free- healthcare-immigrants-California-Trump/
I am compassionate especially so for US waitresses who
paid taxes on their tips, a moral outrage, for 40-odd
dark shameful years. I'm compassionate for all taxpayers
and I will be since their suffering will never end.
And for what? To piss monies into supporting people who
willingly criminally entered our country? Sheesh. A
plane ticket home is cheap by comparison.
And we're back to the "entering the country illegally"
contrivance.
Hmm.
They were kidnapped and dropped here unknowingly?
Or did they enter illegally?
It's a contrivance in that simple movement across the border
is called a crime.
On 1/3/2026 12:46 PM, zen cycle wrote:
On 1/3/2026 11:15 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/3/2026 9:43 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 1/3/2026 10:04 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/3/2026 7:15 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 1/1/2026 9:24 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/1/2026 8:13 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 01 Jan 2026 18:02:50 GMT, cyclintom
<cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Wed Dec 31 23:57:38 2025 John B.a wrote:
I just finished reading about the new taxes and it
made some mention
of medical insurance. Is it correct that citizens
in the U.S. can't
afford to pay for medical and must have some sort
of insurance in
order to afford medical treatment?
Thiz is true under any free enterprise system.
you mean like:
top countries that have free healthcare:
Canada
United Kingdom
Australia
Norway
Germany
France
Sweden
Brazil
South Korea
Denmark
--
cheers,
John B.
We in USA do have free health care- for illegal non-
citizens
Bullshit. non-citizens aren't eligible for federal
health care benefits.
and deadbeats. So there's that.
So lets exclude people who work three jobs to make ends
meet for their families because they can't afford it.
There's this thing called "compassion"...perhaps you
should look into it.
Under Federal laws of very long standing you would be
right in theory.
But in practice, the various States administer those
programs, that is, it may be Federal money but it's
shoveled into the flames by States.
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2025/may/16/gavin-
newsom/free- healthcare-immigrants-California-Trump/
I am compassionate especially so for US waitresses who
paid taxes on their tips, a moral outrage, for 40-odd
dark shameful years. I'm compassionate for all taxpayers
and I will be since their suffering will never end.
And for what? To piss monies into supporting people who
willingly criminally entered our country? Sheesh. A
plane ticket home is cheap by comparison.
And we're back to the "entering the country illegally"
contrivance.
Hmm.
They were kidnapped and dropped here unknowingly?
Or did they enter illegally?
It's a contrivance in that simple movement across the border
is called a crime.
Oh, yes it is indeed. Of long standing with multiple
interlocking Statutes, case histories, supporting
regulations, enforcement budgets and so on.
On 1/3/2026 12:46 PM, zen cycle wrote:
On 1/3/2026 11:15 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/3/2026 9:43 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 1/3/2026 10:04 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/3/2026 7:15 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 1/1/2026 9:24 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/1/2026 8:13 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 01 Jan 2026 18:02:50 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> >>>>>>>> wrote:
On Wed Dec 31 23:57:38 2025 John B.-a wrote:
I just finished reading about the new taxes and it made some >>>>>>>>>> mention
of medical insurance. Is it correct that citizens in the U.S. >>>>>>>>>> can't
afford to pay for medical and must have some sort of insurance in >>>>>>>>>> order to afford medical treatment?
Thiz is true under any free enterprise system.
you mean like:
top countries that have free healthcare:
Canada
United Kingdom
Australia
Norway
Germany
France
Sweden
Brazil
South Korea
Denmark
--
cheers,
John B.
We in USA do have free health care- for illegal non- citizens
Bullshit. non-citizens aren't eligible for federal health care
benefits.
and deadbeats. So there's that.
So lets exclude people who work three jobs to make ends meet for
their families because they can't afford it.
There's this thing called "compassion"...perhaps you should look
into it.
Under Federal laws of very long standing you would be right in theory. >>>>>
But in practice, the various States administer those programs, that >>>>> is, it may be Federal money but it's shoveled into the flames by
States.
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2025/may/16/gavin- newsom/
free- healthcare-immigrants-California-Trump/
I am compassionate especially so for US waitresses who paid taxes
on their tips, a moral outrage, for 40-odd dark shameful years. I'm >>>>> compassionate for all taxpayers and I will be since their suffering >>>>> will never end.
And for what? To piss monies into supporting people who willingly
criminally entered our country? Sheesh. A plane ticket home is
cheap by comparison.
And we're back to the "entering the country illegally" contrivance.
Hmm.
They were kidnapped and dropped here unknowingly?
Or did they enter illegally?
It's a contrivance in that simple movement across the border is called
a crime.
Oh, yes it is indeed.-a Of long standing with multiple interlocking Statutes, case histories, supporting regulations, enforcement budgets
and so on.
On 1/3/2026 12:45 PM, zen cycle wrote:
On 1/3/2026 11:14 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/3/2026 9:41 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 1/3/2026 9:58 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/3/2026 7:11 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 1/2/2026 11:56 PM, Beej Jorgensen wrote:
In article <XqW5R.1287163$Lzl2.190001@fx15.iad>, cyclintom
<cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
Perhaps Governor Loathsome might realize that he cannot hand out >>>>>>>> taxpayer money to millions of illegals without victimizing legal >>>>>>>> California taxpayers.
You should naturalize them so they pay taxes to cover your medicare. >>>>>>>
The vast majority of non-citizens in the US pay taxes and aren't
eligible for gvt. sponsored health services. (contrary to the
right- wing narrative, they aren't all murderers, rapists, drug
dealers, or scamming welfare benefits)
Fraudulent use of a SSN (=taxpayer ID number) is a crime. Hiring
illegal aliens is a crime. Reporting payroll and also withholding
taxes under a fraudulent SSN is a crime.
No one said it wasn't
Oh, and yes, the bulk of illegals are not 'murderers, rapists, drug >>>>> dealers'
But also no. The greater bulk of illegals do indeed scam relief in
all its myriad forms from the US taxpayers to the tune of tens of
billions per year every year
Bullshit. The greater bulk of illegal immigrants are _not_ scamming
relief. That's a right-wing lie on the caliber of Somali immigrants
eating cats. Even if it were, tens of billions is a pittance
compared to the 1.7 Trillion FY26 budget.
monies we actually do not have.-a We're borrowing to pay interest
fer chrissakes, just like a late-stage gambler or alcoholic just
before his end.
Very little of which has anything to do with immigrants scamming the
social services.
You are factually incorrect on that point.-a Argument from the left
(may be even higher) says 59%:
https://cis.org/Report/Welfare-Use-Immigrants-and-USBorn
You need to reread your link:
"Our best estimate is that 59 percent of households headed by illegal
immigrants, also called the undocumented, use at least one major
program. We have no evidence this is due to fraud. Among legal
immigrants we estimate the rate is 52 percent."
Let me reiterate the salient point:
"We have no evidence this is due to fraud. "
Details presented to the 2024 Congress:
https://www.congress.gov/118/meeting/house/116727/ witnesses/
HHRG-118- JU01-Wstate-CamarotaS-20240111.pdf
A gargantuan amount of money is misdirection of purportedly 'medical
coverage' for illegals:
https://thefga.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/10/The- Loopholes-Fueling-
Illegal-Alien-Medicaid-and-ObamaCare- Benefits-paper-10-10-25.pdf
[sources in copious footnotes]
Some large chunk of which is straight out fraud in that insurers are
paid to cover nonexistent 'persons' or to cover a person in two
states at once, etc etc.-a The losses are not only for illegal
coverage of illegals.-a That is, we have big problems and diversion to
illegals is merely one of many.
Again, a drop in the bucket.
p.s. the Libertarians note that _lawful_ immigrants have a lower rate
of welfare than US citizens, which is and has been true for years, a
point of much conflation:
https://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/2025-02/ Briefing-
Paper-184.pdf
I wrote:
The greater bulk of illegals do indeed scam relief in all its myriad
forms from the US taxpayers
You wrote:
Let me reiterate the salient point:
We have no evidence this is due to fraud.
I pointed out that under US laws, illegals may not receive public
monies. And yet they do receive such. [cited]
Choose a word- scam? fraud? whatever.
You pointed out that many illegals pay taxes, which I agree is true. I
noted that under US law that involves several crimes by both employer
and employee.
I don't think we disagree on what's actually happening. We may disagree
on an apt descriptive word.
On 1/3/2026 2:14 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/3/2026 12:46 PM, zen cycle wrote:
On 1/3/2026 11:15 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/3/2026 9:43 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 1/3/2026 10:04 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/3/2026 7:15 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 1/1/2026 9:24 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/1/2026 8:13 PM, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 01 Jan 2026 18:02:50 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
On Wed Dec 31 23:57:38 2025 John B.a wrote:
I just finished reading about the new taxes and it made some >>>>>>>>>>> mention
of medical insurance. Is it correct that citizens in the U.S. >>>>>>>>>>> can't
afford to pay for medical and must have some sort of insurance in >>>>>>>>>>> order to afford medical treatment?
Thiz is true under any free enterprise system.
you mean like:
top countries that have free healthcare:
Canada
United Kingdom
Australia
Norway
Germany
France
Sweden
Brazil
South Korea
Denmark
--
cheers,
John B.
We in USA do have free health care- for illegal non- citizens
Bullshit. non-citizens aren't eligible for federal health care
benefits.
and deadbeats. So there's that.
So lets exclude people who work three jobs to make ends meet for >>>>>>> their families because they can't afford it.
There's this thing called "compassion"...perhaps you should look >>>>>>> into it.
Under Federal laws of very long standing you would be right in theory. >>>>>>
But in practice, the various States administer those programs, that >>>>>> is, it may be Federal money but it's shoveled into the flames by
States.
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2025/may/16/gavin- newsom/
free- healthcare-immigrants-California-Trump/
I am compassionate especially so for US waitresses who paid taxes >>>>>> on their tips, a moral outrage, for 40-odd dark shameful years. I'm >>>>>> compassionate for all taxpayers and I will be since their suffering >>>>>> will never end.
And for what? To piss monies into supporting people who willingly >>>>>> criminally entered our country? Sheesh. A plane ticket home is
cheap by comparison.
And we're back to the "entering the country illegally" contrivance.
Hmm.
They were kidnapped and dropped here unknowingly?
Or did they enter illegally?
It's a contrivance in that simple movement across the border is called
a crime.
Oh, yes it is indeed.a Of long standing with multiple interlocking
Statutes, case histories, supporting regulations, enforcement budgets
and so on.
No one is arguing the long-standing history of criminalization of
immigration. My personal opinion is that it's a contrivance with no
moral basis.
On 1/3/2026 2:12 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/3/2026 12:45 PM, zen cycle wrote:
On 1/3/2026 11:14 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/3/2026 9:41 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 1/3/2026 9:58 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/3/2026 7:11 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 1/2/2026 11:56 PM, Beej Jorgensen wrote:
In article <XqW5R.1287163$Lzl2.190001@fx15.iad>,
cyclintom
<cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
Perhaps Governor Loathsome might realize that he
cannot hand out
taxpayer money to millions of illegals without
victimizing legal
California taxpayers.
You should naturalize them so they pay taxes to
cover your medicare.
The vast majority of non-citizens in the US pay taxes
and aren't eligible for gvt. sponsored health
services. (contrary to the right- wing narrative,
they aren't all murderers, rapists, drug dealers, or
scamming welfare benefits)
Fraudulent use of a SSN (=taxpayer ID number) is a
crime. Hiring illegal aliens is a crime. Reporting
payroll and also withholding taxes under a fraudulent
SSN is a crime.
No one said it wasn't
Oh, and yes, the bulk of illegals are not 'murderers,
rapists, drug dealers'
But also no. The greater bulk of illegals do indeed
scam relief in all its myriad forms from the US
taxpayers to the tune of tens of billions per year
every year
Bullshit. The greater bulk of illegal immigrants are
_not_ scamming relief. That's a right-wing lie on the
caliber of Somali immigrants eating cats. Even if it
were, tens of billions is a pittance compared to the
1.7 Trillion FY26 budget.
monies we actually do not have.-a We're borrowing to
pay interest fer chrissakes, just like a late-stage
gambler or alcoholic just before his end.
Very little of which has anything to do with immigrants
scamming the social services.
You are factually incorrect on that point.-a Argument
from the left (may be even higher) says 59%:
https://cis.org/Report/Welfare-Use-Immigrants-and-USBorn
You need to reread your link:
"Our best estimate is that 59 percent of households
headed by illegal immigrants, also called the
undocumented, use at least one major program. We have no
evidence this is due to fraud. Among legal immigrants we
estimate the rate is 52 percent."
Let me reiterate the salient point:
"We have no evidence this is due to fraud. "
Details presented to the 2024 Congress:
https://www.congress.gov/118/meeting/house/116727/
witnesses/ HHRG-118- JU01-Wstate-CamarotaS-20240111.pdf
A gargantuan amount of money is misdirection of
purportedly 'medical coverage' for illegals:
https://thefga.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/10/The-
Loopholes-Fueling- Illegal-Alien-Medicaid-and-ObamaCare-
Benefits-paper-10-10-25.pdf
[sources in copious footnotes]
Some large chunk of which is straight out fraud in that
insurers are paid to cover nonexistent 'persons' or to
cover a person in two states at once, etc etc.-a The
losses are not only for illegal coverage of illegals.
That is, we have big problems and diversion to illegals
is merely one of many.
Again, a drop in the bucket.
p.s. the Libertarians note that _lawful_ immigrants have
a lower rate of welfare than US citizens, which is and
has been true for years, a point of much conflation:
https://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/2025-02/
Briefing- Paper-184.pdf
I wrote:
The greater bulk of illegals do indeed scam relief in all
its myriad forms from the US taxpayers
You wrote:
Let me reiterate the salient point:
We have no evidence this is due to fraud.
I pointed out that under US laws, illegals may not receive
public monies. And yet they do receive such. [cited]
Choose a word- scam? fraud? whatever.
You pointed out that many illegals pay taxes, which I
agree is true. I noted that under US law that involves
several crimes by both employer and employee.
I don't think we disagree on what's actually happening. We
may disagree on an apt descriptive word.
Nope. Sorry. If your cite states "We have no evidence this
is due to fraud" that means quite explicitly they are
receiving benefits legally, when they are themselves legal
residents or not. This is not a semantic quibble over 'scam'
vs 'fraud'.
Are there illegal immigrants obtaining benefits to which
they do _not_ have a legal right? Certainly, and there are
significantly greater numbers of US citizens and legal
residents doing the same to a much greater determent to the
system simply due to the scale involved.
The claim that throwing illegal immigrants out of the
country will somehow bring the social safety net system in
the US into solvency (or closer to it) is the real scam
here, Andrew. It will have about as much effect as blowing
up a few drug boats has on the illegal drug trade in the US.
On 1/3/2026 3:08 PM, zen cycle wrote:
On 1/3/2026 2:12 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/3/2026 12:45 PM, zen cycle wrote:
On 1/3/2026 11:14 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/3/2026 9:41 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 1/3/2026 9:58 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/3/2026 7:11 AM, zen cycle wrote:
On 1/2/2026 11:56 PM, Beej Jorgensen wrote:
In article <XqW5R.1287163$Lzl2.190001@fx15.iad>,
cyclintom
<cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
Perhaps Governor Loathsome might realize that he
cannot hand out
taxpayer money to millions of illegals without
victimizing legal
California taxpayers.
You should naturalize them so they pay taxes to
cover your medicare.
The vast majority of non-citizens in the US pay taxes
and aren't eligible for gvt. sponsored health
services. (contrary to the right- wing narrative,
they aren't all murderers, rapists, drug dealers, or
scamming welfare benefits)
Fraudulent use of a SSN (=3dtaxpayer ID number) is a
crime. Hiring illegal aliens is a crime. Reporting
payroll and also withholding taxes under a fraudulent
SSN is a crime.
No one said it wasn't
Oh, and yes, the bulk of illegals are not 'murderers,
rapists, drug dealers'
But also no. The greater bulk of illegals do indeed
scam relief in all its myriad forms from the US
taxpayers to the tune of tens of billions per year
every year
Bullshit. The greater bulk of illegal immigrants are
_not_ scamming relief. That's a right-wing lie on the
caliber of Somali immigrants eating cats. Even if it
were, tens of billions is a pittance compared to the
1.7 Trillion FY26 budget.
monies we actually do not have.--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
In article <XqW5R.1287163$Lzl2.190001@fx15.iad>, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:Medicare is an insurance policy. I pain into it for the better part of 50 years without a single charge. I spent 6 years in the service of this country voluntarily. I earned my medicare and I don't need someone else pretending to pay for me.
Perhaps Governor Loathsome might realize that he cannot hand out
taxpayer money to millions of illegals without victimizing legal
California taxpayers.
You should naturalize them so they pay taxes to cover your medicare.
On 1/2/2026 11:56 PM, Beej Jorgensen wrote:
In article <XqW5R.1287163$Lzl2.190001@fx15.iad>, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
Perhaps Governor Loathsome might realize that he cannot hand out
taxpayer money to millions of illegals without victimizing legal
California taxpayers.
You should naturalize them so they pay taxes to cover your medicare.
The vast majority of non-citizens in the US pay taxes and aren'tStill more stupid bullshit from Flunky. You are employed with medical insurance and don't know one thing about illegals and health care. If they need medical care they simply go to an ER which is required by law to supply it. Then they don't pay any bills and move to another apartment so that legal action can't be taken against them.
eligible for gvt. sponsored health services. (contrary to the right-wing narrative, they aren't all murderers, rapists, drug dealers, or scamming welfare benefits)
On Thu, 01 Jan 2026 18:02:50 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Wed Dec 31 23:57:38 2025 John B. wrote:
I just finished reading about the new taxes and it made some mention
of medical insurance. Is it correct that citizens in the U.S. can't
afford to pay for medical and must have some sort of insurance in
order to afford medical treatment?
Do you mean all of those countries that made mRNA vaccines a requirement? The same countries that have poor cancer treatment? That claimed that Turbo cancers were not caused by mRNA vaccine while the man who invented invented mRNA vaccines stated that they were a killer from the start?Thiz is true under any free enterprise system.
you mean like:
top countries that have free healthcare:
Canada
United Kingdom
Australia
Norway
Germany
France
Sweden
Brazil
South Korea
Denmark
On Thu Jan 1 18:13:20 2026 John B. wrote:
On Thu, 01 Jan 2026 18:02:50 GMT, cyclintom <cyclintom@yahoo.com>
wrote:
On Wed Dec 31 23:57:38 2025 John B. wrote:
I just finished reading about the new taxes and it made some mention
of medical insurance. Is it correct that citizens in the U.S. can't
afford to pay for medical and must have some sort of insurance in
order to afford medical treatment?
Thiz is true under any free enterprise system.
you mean like:
top countries that have free healthcare:
Canada
United Kingdom
Australia
Norway
Germany
France
Sweden
Brazil
South Korea
Denmark
Do you mean all of those countries that made mRNA vaccines a requirement? The same countries that have poor cancer treatment? That claimed that Turbo cancers were not caused by mRNA vaccine while the man who invented invented mRNA vaccines stated that they were a killer from the start?
Not on Obamacare, they don't. >https://www.thecentersquare.com/california/article_6f20100e-cf59-4fd2-b491-80ee9d98df8b.html
In article <10jb8h5$a63b$24@dont-email.me>, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 1/2/2026 10:59 PM, Beej Jorgensen wrote:
Not on Obamacare, they don't.https://www.thecentersquare.com/california/article_6f20100e-cf59-4fd2-b491-80ee9d98df8b.html
I said Obamacare, and you came back with Medi-Cal. What's up with that?
In article <10jb8h5$a63b$24@dont-email.me>, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 1/2/2026 10:59 PM, Beej Jorgensen wrote:
Not on Obamacare, they don't.https://www.thecentersquare.com/california/article_6f20100e-cf59-4fd2-b491-80ee9d98df8b.html
I said Obamacare, and you came back with Medi-Cal. What's up with that?
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