• [OT] Free speech victory in the UK

    From Rhino@no_offline_contact@example.com to rec.arts.tv on Sun Mar 1 12:59:45 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.tv

    Jacob Rees-Mogg's daily video discloses that a man who was convicted of
    a public order offense when he burned a Koran in front of a Turkish
    consulate in the UK has had his conviction overturned by an appeal court
    and by the High Court when the prosecutor appealed the appeal court ruling.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1HyLuElzZM [9 minutes]

    Rees-Mogg gives a clear explanation of why we need to have free speech,
    even when that speech is offensive to some.
    --
    Rhino

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  • From moviePig@nobody@nowhere.com to rec.arts.tv on Sun Mar 1 14:34:24 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.tv

    On 3/1/2026 12:59 PM, Rhino wrote:
    Jacob Rees-Mogg's daily video discloses that a man who was convicted of
    a public order offense when he burned a Koran in front of a Turkish consulate in the UK has had his conviction overturned by an appeal court
    and by the High Court when the prosecutor appealed the appeal court ruling.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1HyLuElzZM [9 minutes]

    Rees-Mogg gives a clear explanation of why we need to have free speech,
    even when that speech is offensive to some.

    I think few people will argue against 'free speech ...just about what constitutes it.


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  • From Adam H. Kerman@ahk@chinet.com to rec.arts.tv on Sun Mar 1 20:28:09 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.tv

    Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

    Jacob Rees-Mogg's daily video discloses that a man who was convicted of
    a public order offense when he burned a Koran in front of a Turkish >consulate in the UK has had his conviction overturned by an appeal court
    and by the High Court when the prosecutor appealed the appeal court ruling.

    I question your conclusion. While the American concept of judicial
    review -- such and such a statute is unconstitutional given certain
    facts and circumstances -- is based on judicial review in English common
    law, lacking a constitution beyond Magna Carta, a judge cannot rule a
    law unconstitutional.

    If this sets precedent, and I have no understanding of how precedent
    works, then the protection is quite limited. The only way to protect
    speech and publishing rights is to repeal the statute. Till that's done,
    speech and publishing that gives offense without an underlying crime
    remains disorderly conduct. There is no liberty.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1HyLuElzZM [9 minutes]

    Rees-Mogg gives a clear explanation of why we need to have free speech,
    even when that speech is offensive to some.

    Too bad the voters just won't vote in a government determined to repeal
    all illiberal laws.
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  • From Rhino@no_offline_contact@example.com to rec.arts.tv on Sun Mar 1 16:06:16 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.tv

    On 2026-03-01 3:28 p.m., Adam H. Kerman wrote:
    Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

    Jacob Rees-Mogg's daily video discloses that a man who was convicted of
    a public order offense when he burned a Koran in front of a Turkish
    consulate in the UK has had his conviction overturned by an appeal court
    and by the High Court when the prosecutor appealed the appeal court ruling.

    I question your conclusion.

    Huh? Are you saying I misunderstood him?

    While the American concept of judicial
    review -- such and such a statute is unconstitutional given certain
    facts and circumstances -- is based on judicial review in English common
    law, lacking a constitution beyond Magna Carta, a judge cannot rule a
    law unconstitutional.

    The Brits firmly believe that they DO have a constitution although they describe it as unwritten! It was created during the Glorious Revolution
    of 1688/89 and everyone seems to know what is in it. (Yeah, I don't
    quite follow that either.)

    If this sets precedent, and I have no understanding of how precedent
    works, then the protection is quite limited. The only way to protect
    speech and publishing rights is to repeal the statute. Till that's done, speech and publishing that gives offense without an underlying crime
    remains disorderly conduct. There is no liberty.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1HyLuElzZM [9 minutes]

    Rees-Mogg gives a clear explanation of why we need to have free speech,
    even when that speech is offensive to some.

    Too bad the voters just won't vote in a government determined to repeal
    all illiberal laws.


    That option never seems to be on offer at election time. Everyone is too
    busy trying to bribe voters with Free Stuff to want to deal with that
    kind of fundamental improvement.
    --
    Rhino
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  • From Adam H. Kerman@ahk@chinet.com to rec.arts.tv on Sun Mar 1 21:22:18 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.tv

    Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
    On 2026-03-01 3:28 p.m., Adam H. Kerman wrote:
    Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

    Jacob Rees-Mogg's daily video discloses that a man who was convicted of
    a public order offense when he burned a Koran in front of a Turkish >>>consulate in the UK has had his conviction overturned by an appeal court >>>and by the High Court when the prosecutor appealed the appeal court ruling.

    I question your conclusion.

    Huh? Are you saying I misunderstood him?

    I'm saying that you cannot conclude that others who speak or write
    cannot be prosecuted for disorderly conduct just because this went to
    the High Court. I don't believe that makes a law unenforceable at trial
    in future.

    While the American concept of judicial
    review -- such and such a statute is unconstitutional given certain
    facts and circumstances -- is based on judicial review in English common >>law, lacking a constitution beyond Magna Carta, a judge cannot rule a
    law unconstitutional.

    The Brits firmly believe that they DO have a constitution although they >describe it as unwritten! It was created during the Glorious Revolution
    of 1688/89 and everyone seems to know what is in it. (Yeah, I don't
    quite follow that either.)

    The unwritten constitution is a set of statutes. There is no agreement
    on which statutes are in the set. As they are statutes, they can be
    amended or repealed by Parliament in a future session. Courts have no
    ability to review a statute for conformity with constitutional law with
    no written constitution.

    Common law, to the extent that it's precedent, goes away once the
    statute it interprets is repealed or amended.

    . . .
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  • From Rhino@no_offline_contact@example.com to rec.arts.tv on Sun Mar 1 21:56:14 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.tv

    On 2026-03-01 4:22 p.m., Adam H. Kerman wrote:
    Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
    On 2026-03-01 3:28 p.m., Adam H. Kerman wrote:
    Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

    Jacob Rees-Mogg's daily video discloses that a man who was convicted of >>>> a public order offense when he burned a Koran in front of a Turkish
    consulate in the UK has had his conviction overturned by an appeal court >>>> and by the High Court when the prosecutor appealed the appeal court ruling.

    I question your conclusion.

    Huh? Are you saying I misunderstood him?

    I'm saying that you cannot conclude that others who speak or write
    cannot be prosecuted for disorderly conduct just because this went to
    the High Court. I don't believe that makes a law unenforceable at trial
    in future.

    So you're saying it's no guarantee that the next guy charged with the
    same thing is going to get off simply because this guy was. I simply
    don't know how precedents work in the UK. That is a question for someone
    like the BlackBeltBarrister.

    While the American concept of judicial
    review -- such and such a statute is unconstitutional given certain
    facts and circumstances -- is based on judicial review in English common >>> law, lacking a constitution beyond Magna Carta, a judge cannot rule a
    law unconstitutional.

    The Brits firmly believe that they DO have a constitution although they
    describe it as unwritten! It was created during the Glorious Revolution
    of 1688/89 and everyone seems to know what is in it. (Yeah, I don't
    quite follow that either.)

    The unwritten constitution is a set of statutes. There is no agreement
    on which statutes are in the set. As they are statutes, they can be
    amended or repealed by Parliament in a future session. Courts have no
    ability to review a statute for conformity with constitutional law with
    no written constitution.

    Common law, to the extent that it's precedent, goes away once the
    statute it interprets is repealed or amended.


    Okay, I think I get your drift. If you're saying it would be better to
    have freedom of speech "carved in stone" the way it is in the US
    Constitution, I expect you're right especially if it is written as
    strongly as your constitution, rather than the wishy-washy wannabe we have.
    --
    Rhino
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  • From Pluted Pup@plutedpup@outlook.com to rec.arts.tv on Sun Mar 1 20:01:23 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.tv

    On 3/1/26 6:56 PM, Rhino wrote:
    On 2026-03-01 4:22 p.m., Adam H. Kerman wrote:
    Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:
    On 2026-03-01 3:28 p.m., Adam H. Kerman wrote:
    Rhino <no_offline_contact@example.com> wrote:

    Jacob Rees-Mogg's daily video discloses that a man who was convicted of >>>>> a public order offense when he burned a Koran in front of a Turkish
    consulate in the UK has had his conviction overturned by an appeal court >>>>> and by the High Court when the prosecutor appealed the appeal court ruling.

    I question your conclusion.

    Huh? Are you saying I misunderstood him?

    I'm saying that you cannot conclude that others who speak or write
    cannot be prosecuted for disorderly conduct just because this went to
    the High Court. I don't believe that makes a law unenforceable at trial
    in future.

    So you're saying it's no guarantee that the next guy charged with the same thing is going to get off simply because this guy was. I simply don't know how precedents work in the UK. That is a question for someone like the BlackBeltBarrister.

    While the American concept of judicial
    review -- such and such a statute is unconstitutional given certain
    facts and circumstances -- is based on judicial review in English common >>>> law, lacking a constitution beyond Magna Carta, a judge cannot rule a
    law unconstitutional.

    The Brits firmly believe that they DO have a constitution although they
    describe it as unwritten! It was created during the Glorious Revolution
    of 1688/89 and everyone seems to know what is in it. (Yeah, I don't
    quite follow that either.)

    The unwritten constitution is a set of statutes. There is no agreement
    on which statutes are in the set. As they are statutes, they can be
    amended or repealed by Parliament in a future session. Courts have no
    ability to review a statute for conformity with constitutional law with
    no written constitution.

    Common law, to the extent that it's precedent, goes away once the
    statute it interprets is repealed or amended.


    Okay, I think I get your drift. If you're saying it would be better to have freedom of speech "carved in stone" the way it is in the US Constitution, I expect you're right especially if it is written as strongly as your constitution, rather than the wishy-washy wannabe we have.

    Adam's being obtuse. The concept of Free Speech is universal,
    so is the concept of it's being denied. There is no "British
    exceptionalism".









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