• The "Science" in "Science Fiction"

    From ram@ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram) to rec.arts.sf.written on Sat Feb 28 18:56:23 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

    Michael Ikeda <mmikeda@erols.com> wrote or quoted:
    :Yes, but one could argue the science in science fiction is supposed
    :to be somewhat plausible.

    I've been annoyed for a while that "Science Fiction" is basical-
    ly never scientifically accurate. But I gotta say you can read the
    word "Science" in Science Fiction a few different ways. It could
    mean, like I used to think, "based on scientific findings," or it
    could just mean "pulling in ideas from science." Often words like
    "wormhole" get used as a motif, but then a wormhole is what the au-
    thor imagines, not what science actually says about it. By the way,
    I recently watched a talk (as a video) where Professor Susskind
    talks about how two black holes, formed from entangled particles far
    apart, make a wormhole. If Jack and Jill each jump into one of those
    holes, they'd meet inside. So science isn't always boring, I think.
    The video was "The Quantum Origins of Gravity" (Oscar Klein Memorial
    Lecture 2018) by Leonard Susskind.


    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Paul S Person@psperson@old.netcom.invalid to rec.arts.sf.written on Sun Mar 1 09:16:56 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

    On 28 Feb 2026 18:56:23 GMT, ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram)
    wrote:
    Michael Ikeda <mmikeda@erols.com> wrote or quoted:
    :Yes, but one could argue the science in science fiction is supposed
    :to be somewhat plausible.

    I've been annoyed for a while that "Science Fiction" is basical-
    ly never scientifically accurate. But I gotta say you can read the
    word "Science" in Science Fiction a few different ways. It could
    mean, like I used to think, "based on scientific findings," or it
    could just mean "pulling in ideas from science." Often words like
    "wormhole" get used as a motif, but then a wormhole is what the au-
    thor imagines, not what science actually says about it. By the way,
    I recently watched a talk (as a video) where Professor Susskind
    talks about how two black holes, formed from entangled particles far
    apart, make a wormhole. If Jack and Jill each jump into one of those
    holes, they'd meet inside. So science isn't always boring, I think.
    The video was "The Quantum Origins of Gravity" (Oscar Klein Memorial
    Lecture 2018) by Leonard Susskind.
    It varies.
    In its early years, it was justified by teaching science (utterly
    sexless science, of course) to 13-year-old boys. That science was
    expected to be mostly accurate.
    An early Tom Swift book, referred to a while back, featuring a
    motorcycle, for example, was probably most educational. And perhaps
    even practical. Especially if it advocated wearing a helmet.
    Heinlein's /The Rolling Stones/ has a lot about trajectories for
    traveling from the Moon to Mars with a fly-by of the Earth to get a
    push. I suspect it is accurate in the sense that it was what was
    thought to be correct at the time. It may also be accurate in an
    absolute sense, who can say?
    Incidentally, I found these Heinlein books, previously unavailable on
    Kindle, now available:
    Between Planets
    Farnham's Freehold
    Puppet Masters, The
    Rolling Stones, The
    all have no ISBN or publisher, but do have a link to a certain
    location selling leather-bound hardcover complete works for an
    astounding price.
    Apparently, they are releasing some works to eBook that never made it originally for those of us who don't think a cow should have go around
    without its skin just to make a nice looking set of books.
    But this changed, and Science Fiction began expanding to clearly not
    currently scientific topics. Ironically, the tradition of explaining
    this continued, leading to long explanations of just how whatever FTL
    process (actual FTL or something that gave the same effect) was used
    in the book. All of it bogus, of course.
    And now, with the pace of science, it's getting hard to tell the
    difference. I'm reading the Robin Cook books about a pair of Medical
    Examiners, and some of the items mentioned may well be so advanced --
    how advanced may they be? -- so advanced that they don't actually
    exist yet.
    Which kinda-sorta makes them SF, I suppose.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From kludge@kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) to rec.arts.sf.written on Sun Mar 1 12:31:55 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

    Heinlein's /The Rolling Stones/ has a lot about trajectories for
    traveling from the Moon to Mars with a fly-by of the Earth to get a
    push. I suspect it is accurate in the sense that it was what was
    thought to be correct at the time. It may also be accurate in an
    absolute sense, who can say?

    It's pretty close in an absolute sense, although I am not sure that you
    can get sufficient precision from mechanical cams. And of course you
    can't control your course once you have it set in, without getting new
    cams machined by the big computer on Earth. That's a problem if something
    goes wrong halfway there and you have to change your thrust level.
    --scott
    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?=@ldo@nz.invalid to rec.arts.sf.written on Sun Mar 1 21:49:07 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

    On Sun, 1 Mar 2026 12:31:55 -0500 (EST), Scott Dorsey wrote:

    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

    Heinlein's /The Rolling Stones/ has a lot about trajectories for
    traveling from the Moon to Mars with a fly-by of the Earth to get a
    push. I suspect it is accurate in the sense that it was what was
    thought to be correct at the time. It may also be accurate in an
    absolute sense, who can say?

    It's pretty close in an absolute sense, although I am not sure that
    you can get sufficient precision from mechanical cams. And of course
    you can't control your course once you have it set in, without
    getting new cams machined by the big computer on Earth. That's a
    problem if something goes wrong halfway there and you have to change
    your thrust level.

    Imagine trying to calculate a slingshot orbit, getting gravity assists
    from various planets along the way, sometimes multiple times, as so
    many space probes are routinely doing these days. No analog computer
    could achieve enough accuracy for that, I donrCOt think.

    By the way, BabbagerCOs old steam-powered rCLDifference EnginerCY did calculations with a precision of 30 decimal digits. Even with todayrCOs advanced digital computers, thatrCOs still pretty unusual.
    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From jdnicoll@jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) to rec.arts.sf.written on Sun Mar 1 23:05:44 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

    In article <1ds8qkdt9f82vdmad3g5nobpuiidrqlj3s@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

    Heinlein's /The Rolling Stones/ has a lot about trajectories for
    traveling from the Moon to Mars with a fly-by of the Earth to get a
    push. I suspect it is accurate in the sense that it was what was
    thought to be correct at the time. It may also be accurate in an
    absolute sense, who can say?

    Rolling Stones has one of the few examples in SF of the Oberth
    manuever, which is a handy way to exploit massive worlds for
    free extra delta vee. Mostly sf uses rockets that are so over-
    powered, they don't bother with the Oberth thingie.

    As I recall, Baxter's Mayflower II did... to gain a few extra 10s of
    km/s for a ship able to reach a significant fraction of C, using
    drives visible from Tau Ceti, as a bid to sneak away from enemies
    with FTL drives.
    --
    My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
    My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
    My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
    My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll
    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Paul S Person@psperson@old.netcom.invalid to rec.arts.sf.written on Mon Mar 2 09:35:46 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

    On Sun, 1 Mar 2026 21:49:07 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D|Oliveiro
    <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
    On Sun, 1 Mar 2026 12:31:55 -0500 (EST), Scott Dorsey wrote:

    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

    Heinlein's /The Rolling Stones/ has a lot about trajectories for
    traveling from the Moon to Mars with a fly-by of the Earth to get a
    push. I suspect it is accurate in the sense that it was what was
    thought to be correct at the time. It may also be accurate in an
    absolute sense, who can say?

    It's pretty close in an absolute sense, although I am not sure that
    you can get sufficient precision from mechanical cams. And of course
    you can't control your course once you have it set in, without
    getting new cams machined by the big computer on Earth. That's a
    problem if something goes wrong halfway there and you have to change
    your thrust level.

    Imagine trying to calculate a slingshot orbit, getting gravity assists
    from various planets along the way, sometimes multiple times, as so
    many space probes are routinely doing these days. No analog computer
    could achieve enough accuracy for that, I donAt think.

    By the way, BabbageAs old steam-powered oDifference Engineo did
    calculations with a precision of 30 decimal digits. Even with todayAs >advanced digital computers, thatAs still pretty unusual.
    It's not entirely clear whether, when they all try to compute
    solutions for a given maneuver (the trip to Mars turns out to be more
    exciting than planned), they are using anything more than
    pencil-and-paper (or perhaps stylus-and-erasable pad).
    But I didn't claim that /how they computed it/ was necessarily
    correct. It is the description of how such maneuvers work (burn here,
    coast there, relative velocity with neighboring ships -- Newtonian
    mechanics at its finest).
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Paul S Person@psperson@old.netcom.invalid to rec.arts.sf.written on Tue Mar 3 08:42:42 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

    On Mon, 02 Mar 2026 09:35:46 -0800, Paul S Person
    <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Sun, 1 Mar 2026 21:49:07 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D|Oliveiro
    <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

    On Sun, 1 Mar 2026 12:31:55 -0500 (EST), Scott Dorsey wrote:

    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:

    Heinlein's /The Rolling Stones/ has a lot about trajectories for
    traveling from the Moon to Mars with a fly-by of the Earth to get a
    push. I suspect it is accurate in the sense that it was what was
    thought to be correct at the time. It may also be accurate in an
    absolute sense, who can say?

    It's pretty close in an absolute sense, although I am not sure that
    you can get sufficient precision from mechanical cams. And of course
    you can't control your course once you have it set in, without
    getting new cams machined by the big computer on Earth. That's a
    problem if something goes wrong halfway there and you have to change
    your thrust level.

    Imagine trying to calculate a slingshot orbit, getting gravity assists
    from various planets along the way, sometimes multiple times, as so
    many space probes are routinely doing these days. No analog computer
    could achieve enough accuracy for that, I donAt think.

    By the way, BabbageAs old steam-powered oDifference Engineo did >>calculations with a precision of 30 decimal digits. Even with todayAs >>advanced digital computers, thatAs still pretty unusual.

    It's not entirely clear whether, when they all try to compute
    solutions for a given maneuver (the trip to Mars turns out to be more >exciting than planned), they are using anything more than
    pencil-and-paper (or perhaps stylus-and-erasable pad).

    But I didn't claim that /how they computed it/ was necessarily
    correct. It is the description of how such maneuvers work (burn here,
    coast there, relative velocity with neighboring ships -- Newtonian
    mechanics at its finest).
    The last chapter I read introduced a "flat cat", and the title of the
    next chapter suggested something ... which this <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rolling_Stones_(novel)#Flat_cat>
    confirms and this <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rolling_Stones_(novel)#Flat_cats_v._tribbles>
    explores in detail the obvious question.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
    --- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2