• =?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=9CThe_speed_with_which_AI_is_evolving_is_startling?= =?UTF-8?B?4oCd?=

    From Lynn McGuire@lynnmcguire5@gmail.com to rec.arts.sf.written on Fri Feb 13 17:30:38 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

    rCLThe speed with which AI is evolving is startlingrCY

    https://bayourenaissanceman.blogspot.com/2026/02/the-speed-with-which-ai-is-evolving-is.html

    rCLIrCOm obliged to the anonymous reader who sent me the link to Matt ShumerrCOs latest blog article about the current state of artificial intelligence (AI). ItrCOs a remarkable article rCo so much so that I canrCOt begin to cover all its points in a short post like this. HererCOs a small sample to whet your appetite.rCY

    "For years, AI had been improving steadily. Big jumps here and there,
    but each big jump was spaced out enough that you could absorb them as
    they came. Then in 2025, new techniques for building these models
    unlocked a much faster pace of progress. And then it got even faster.
    And then faster again. Each new model wasnrCOt just better than the lastrCa
    it was better by a wider margin, and the time between new model releases
    was shorter."
    https://shumer.dev/something-big-is-happening

    . . .

    "IrCOve always been early to adopt AI tools. But the last few months have shocked me. These new AI models arenrCOt incremental improvements. This is
    a different thing entirely."

    I still ainrCOt buying it.

    Lynn

    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Paul S Person@psperson@old.netcom.invalid to rec.arts.sf.written on Sat Feb 14 09:04:55 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

    On Fri, 13 Feb 2026 17:30:38 -0600, Lynn McGuire
    <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
    <snippo quote about AI progress>
    I still ainAt buying it.
    I recent /Science News/ article discussed using tensors to simply,
    re-organize, and replace current AI models <https://www.sciencenews.org/article/quantum-tensor-network-ai-model-relief>. This apparently increases speed and reduces energy requirements. This
    may or may not be related to the stuff I snipped.
    Doesn't mean you have to buy it, though.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From kludge@kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) to rec.arts.sf.written on Sat Feb 14 12:19:59 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    I recent /Science News/ article discussed using tensors to simply, >re-organize, and replace current AI models ><https://www.sciencenews.org/article/quantum-tensor-network-ai-model-reli= >ef>.

    This apparently increases speed and reduces energy requirements. This
    may or may not be related to the stuff I snipped.

    "A penny's worth of better algorithm is worth a million dollars worth of
    better hardware."
    -- gus baird
    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?=@ldo@nz.invalid to rec.arts.sf.written on Sat Feb 14 23:25:07 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

    On Sat, 14 Feb 2026 12:19:59 -0500 (EST), Scott Dorsey wrote:

    "A penny's worth of better algorithm is worth a million dollars
    worth of better hardware."
    -- gus baird

    Was that back when programmers were being paid pennies to program
    computers worth millions of dollars?

    Enquiring minds would like to know.
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From kludge@kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) to rec.arts.sf.written on Sun Feb 15 08:11:51 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

    Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?= <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
    On Sat, 14 Feb 2026 12:19:59 -0500 (EST), Scott Dorsey wrote:

    "A penny's worth of better algorithm is worth a million dollars
    worth of better hardware."
    -- gus baird

    Was that back when programmers were being paid pennies to program
    computers worth millions of dollars?

    Yes, as opposed today when programmers are paid pennies to write
    programs run on millions of computers each worth only a few dollars.
    --scott
    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Paul S Person@psperson@old.netcom.invalid to rec.arts.sf.written on Sun Feb 15 08:55:48 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

    On Sun, 15 Feb 2026 08:11:51 -0500 (EST), kludge@panix.com (Scott
    Dorsey) wrote:
    Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?= <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
    On Sat, 14 Feb 2026 12:19:59 -0500 (EST), Scott Dorsey wrote:

    "A penny's worth of better algorithm is worth a million dollars
    worth of better hardware."
    -- gus baird

    Was that back when programmers were being paid pennies to program
    computers worth millions of dollars?

    Yes, as opposed today when programmers are paid pennies to write
    programs run on millions of computers each worth only a few dollars.
    Then shouldn't the "penny" be adjusted for inflation?
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Bobbie Sellers@bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com to rec.arts.sf.written on Sun Feb 15 10:40:10 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written



    On 2/15/26 08:55, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Sun, 15 Feb 2026 08:11:51 -0500 (EST), kludge@panix.com (Scott
    Dorsey) wrote:

    Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?= <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
    On Sat, 14 Feb 2026 12:19:59 -0500 (EST), Scott Dorsey wrote:

    "A penny's worth of better algorithm is worth a million dollars
    worth of better hardware."
    -- gus baird

    Was that back when programmers were being paid pennies to program
    computers worth millions of dollars?

    Yes, as opposed today when programmers are paid pennies to write
    programs run on millions of computers each worth only a few dollars.

    Then shouldn't the "penny" be adjusted for inflation?

    Yes but the US Penny is being eliminated due to cost. Last I read was about
    4.6 cents to make each penny. And it is now mostly zinc so not a copper's worth.

    bliss
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Bobbie Sellers@bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com to rec.arts.sf.written on Sun Feb 15 10:48:51 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written



    On 2/14/26 09:19, Scott Dorsey wrote:
    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    I recent /Science News/ article discussed using tensors to simply,
    re-organize, and replace current AI models
    <https://www.sciencenews.org/article/quantum-tensor-network-ai-model-reli= >> ef>.

    This apparently increases speed and reduces energy requirements. This
    may or may not be related to the stuff I snipped.

    "A penny's worth of better algorithm is worth a million dollars worth of
    better hardware."
    -- gus baird


    I doubt that but then I started with the C=64 which was about $200
    dollars plus a floppy disk drive at about $210. The floppy was good to
    store about 161 kilobytes
    and a programmer really had use assembler to get anything done. We got
    the first
    boot block viruses and had anti-virus programs. Some publishers of
    programs got
    infected. Modernised C=64s with extra memory and maybe accelerators are, I believe, net-capable. Some compatible drives may be available. But
    they still so many
    years later have active programmers doing demonstration that other people enjoy. The manual was misprinted and it contained several code
    sequences to be
    used that simply did not work but it was still the most popular single computer
    model ever produced.

    bliss- Dell Precision 7730- PCLOS 2026.01- Linux 6.12.71 pclos1- KDE
    Plasma 6.5.5


    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Bobbie Sellers@bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com to rec.arts.sf.written on Sun Feb 15 11:06:21 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written



    On 2/13/26 15:30, Lynn McGuire wrote:
    rCLThe speed with which AI is evolving is startlingrCY

    https://bayourenaissanceman.blogspot.com/2026/02/the-speed-with-which- ai-is-evolving-is.html

    rCLIrCOm obliged to the anonymous reader who sent me the link to Matt ShumerrCOs latest blog article about the current state of artificial intelligence (AI).-a ItrCOs a remarkable article rCo so much so that I canrCOt
    begin to cover all its points in a short post like this.-a HererCOs a small sample to whet your appetite.rCY

    "For years, AI had been improving steadily. Big jumps here and there,
    but each big jump was spaced out enough that you could absorb them as
    they came. Then in 2025, new techniques for building these models
    unlocked a much faster pace of progress. And then it got even faster.
    And then faster again. Each new model wasnrCOt just better than the lastrCa it was better by a wider margin, and the time between new model releases
    was shorter."
    -a-a-a-a-a https://shumer.dev/something-big-is-happening

    -a-a-a . . .

    "IrCOve always been early to adopt AI tools. But the last few months have shocked me. These new AI models arenrCOt incremental improvements. This is
    a different thing entirely."

    I still ainrCOt buying it.

    Lynn


    It is still Large language Models trained on the internet which is no place
    to expect the truth. Unless humans turn out to be meat merely trained
    to use
    Large Language Models then it ain't Intelligence of any sort.

    Now there are sensory advances for our robotic overlords to be:
    A new sort of eye.
    <https://techxplore.com/news/2026-02-insect-bionic-eye-robots.html>

    I am all for sensory advances for robots and for AI.

    But digital dependency is impacting the food supply:

    <https://phys.org/news/2026-02-humans-machines-truckloads-food-stranded.html>

    These were found along with a lot of real science in the Saturday Overnight
    News digest which is dedicated to the sciences and technology. <https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2026/2/14/2368796/-Overnight-News-Digest-February-14-2026>
    If you like science then you might take a glance.

    bliss


    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From William Hyde@wthyde1953@gmail.com to rec.arts.sf.written on Sun Feb 15 15:29:39 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

    Bobbie Sellers wrote:


    On 2/15/26 08:55, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Sun, 15 Feb 2026 08:11:51 -0500 (EST), kludge@panix.com (Scott
    Dorsey) wrote:

    Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?=-a <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
    On Sat, 14 Feb 2026 12:19:59 -0500 (EST), Scott Dorsey wrote:

    "A penny's worth of better algorithm is worth a million dollars
    -a worth of better hardware."
    -a-a-a-a-a -- gus baird

    Was that back when programmers were being paid pennies to program
    computers worth millions of dollars?

    Yes, as opposed today when programmers are paid pennies to write
    programs run on millions of computers each worth only a few dollars.

    Then shouldn't the "penny" be adjusted for inflation?

    -a-a-a-aYes but the US Penny is being eliminated due to cost. Last I read was about
    -a-a-a 4.6 cents to make each penny.-a And it is now mostly zinc so not a copper's worth.

    Adding a new level of meaning to the old quote:

    "I do not make money from movies, I make money from Zinc!"

    William Hyde
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Cryptoengineer@petertrei@gmail.com to rec.arts.sf.written on Mon Feb 16 10:11:57 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

    On 2/15/2026 2:06 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:


    On 2/13/26 15:30, Lynn McGuire wrote:
    rCLThe speed with which AI is evolving is startlingrCY

    https://bayourenaissanceman.blogspot.com/2026/02/the-speed-with-which-
    ai-is-evolving-is.html

    rCLIrCOm obliged to the anonymous reader who sent me the link to Matt
    ShumerrCOs latest blog article about the current state of artificial
    intelligence (AI).-a ItrCOs a remarkable article rCo so much so that I
    canrCOt begin to cover all its points in a short post like this.-a HererCOs >> a small sample to whet your appetite.rCY

    "For years, AI had been improving steadily. Big jumps here and there,
    but each big jump was spaced out enough that you could absorb them as
    they came. Then in 2025, new techniques for building these models
    unlocked a much faster pace of progress. And then it got even faster.
    And then faster again. Each new model wasnrCOt just better than the
    lastrCa it was better by a wider margin, and the time between new model
    releases was shorter."
    -a-a-a-a-a-a https://shumer.dev/something-big-is-happening

    -a-a-a-a . . .

    "IrCOve always been early to adopt AI tools. But the last few months
    have shocked me. These new AI models arenrCOt incremental improvements.
    This is a different thing entirely."

    I still ainrCOt buying it.

    Lynn


    -a-a-a-aIt is still Large language Models trained on the internet which is no place
    to expect the truth.-a Unless humans turn out to be meat merely trained
    to use
    Large Language Models then it ain't Intelligence of any sort.

    -a-a-a-aNow there are sensory advances for our robotic overlords to be:
    -a-a-a-aA new sort of eye.
    -a-a-a-a<https://techxplore.com/news/2026-02-insect-bionic-eye-robots.html>

    -a-a-a-aI am all for sensory advances for robots and for AI.

    -a-a-a-aBut digital dependency is impacting the food supply:

    <https://phys.org/news/2026-02-humans-machines-truckloads-food- stranded.html>

    -a-a-a-aThese were found along with a lot of real science in the Saturday Overnight
    News digest which is dedicated to the sciences and technology. <https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2026/2/14/2368796/-Overnight-News- Digest-February-14-2026>
    -a-a-a-aIf you like science then you might take a glance.

    -a-a-a-abliss

    Ryk Spoor, (aka Sea Wasp) used to be a regular here. He still posts
    on FB and his blog. Yesterday he posted an entry of interest on this
    topic

    Another AI Post -- on Assumptions and the Future https://seawasp.dreamwidth.org/642712.html

    Its worth a look.

    pt
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Paul S Person@psperson@old.netcom.invalid to rec.arts.sf.written on Mon Feb 16 09:17:47 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

    On Sun, 15 Feb 2026 10:40:10 -0800, Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> wrote:


    On 2/15/26 08:55, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Sun, 15 Feb 2026 08:11:51 -0500 (EST), kludge@panix.com (Scott
    Dorsey) wrote:

    Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?= <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
    On Sat, 14 Feb 2026 12:19:59 -0500 (EST), Scott Dorsey wrote:

    "A penny's worth of better algorithm is worth a million dollars
    worth of better hardware."
    -- gus baird

    Was that back when programmers were being paid pennies to program
    computers worth millions of dollars?

    Yes, as opposed today when programmers are paid pennies to write
    programs run on millions of computers each worth only a few dollars.

    Then shouldn't the "penny" be adjusted for inflation?

    Yes but the US Penny is being eliminated due to cost. Last I read was about
    4.6 cents to make each penny. And it is now mostly zinc so not a
    copper's worth.
    That doesn't answer the question: shouldn't the number of pennies
    programmers are paid be adjusted for inflation? May it's reached a
    nickle by now?
    Nickles, BTW, cost 17 cents to produce. Don't tell Trump.
    The adjustment to a post-penny America is going wierdly, as might be
    expected in a country run by petulant 5-year-olds whose planning
    abilities are lacking. I currently am living with two systems:
    1. Small stores, which (at least locally) are acting as if nothing has
    changed.
    2. The supermarket, which is rounding all pennies /down/ before giving
    change.
    The latter still takes pennies; presumably, these eventually reach a
    Bank, which then issues them to stores that still use them.
    Interestingly, when I used Bing, the articles on "rounding" all used
    the normal rounding: down for 1,2,6,7 and up for 3,4,8,9. Of course, I
    /am/ in Seattle, where things are sometimes a bit ... strange.
    An article on another business that converted to the same rounding as
    the QFC gave as /their/ reason that so few of their transactions were
    in cash that they could easily stand the loss. And that is one
    solution: everyone convert to using a card of one sort or another --
    the problem being, of course, that not everyone /has/ a card (or a
    card that can be used to buy whatever the user wishes, as opposed to a
    gummint card restricted to, say, food and a few other items).
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Paul S Person@psperson@old.netcom.invalid to rec.arts.sf.written on Mon Feb 16 09:20:49 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

    On Sun, 15 Feb 2026 10:48:51 -0800, Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> wrote:
    I doubt that but then I started with the C=64 which was about $200
    dollars plus a floppy disk drive at about $210. The floppy was good to
    store about 161 kilobytes
    and a programmer really had use assembler to get anything done. We got
    the first
    boot block viruses and had anti-virus programs. Some publishers of
    programs got
    infected. Modernised C=64s with extra memory and maybe accelerators are, I >believe, net-capable. Some compatible drives may be available. But
    they still so many
    years later have active programmers doing demonstration that other people >enjoy. The manual was misprinted and it contained several code
    sequences to be
    used that simply did not work but it was still the most popular single >computer
    model ever produced.
    I still remember reading an article in (IIRC) BYTE pointing out that
    cost of a then-current small computer had dropped to the price of a
    common new car -- $5000.
    Cars, of course, common or not, have gone up since then. Computers,
    which specs nobody even dreamed of back then, have dropped. A lot.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From kludge@kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) to rec.arts.sf.written on Mon Feb 16 13:23:30 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    I still remember reading an article in (IIRC) BYTE pointing out that
    cost of a then-current small computer had dropped to the price of a
    common new car -- $5000.

    Cars, of course, common or not, have gone up since then. Computers,
    which specs nobody even dreamed of back then, have dropped. A lot.

    Futurists predictions don't always work out right, but I think in then
    event they wash out.

    We didn't get electricity too cheap to meter, but we did get long distance service too cheap to meter. Car stereos and television sets are too cheap
    for thieves to even bother with them now. But now people are stealing
    tampons and toothpaste.
    --scott
    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Tony Nance@tnusenet17@gmail.com to rec.arts.sf.written on Wed Feb 18 16:19:46 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

    On 2/15/26 1:40 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:


    On 2/15/26 08:55, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Sun, 15 Feb 2026 08:11:51 -0500 (EST), kludge@panix.com (Scott
    Dorsey) wrote:

    Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?=-a <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
    On Sat, 14 Feb 2026 12:19:59 -0500 (EST), Scott Dorsey wrote:

    "A penny's worth of better algorithm is worth a million dollars
    -a worth of better hardware."
    -a-a-a-a-a -- gus baird

    Was that back when programmers were being paid pennies to program
    computers worth millions of dollars?

    Yes, as opposed today when programmers are paid pennies to write
    programs run on millions of computers each worth only a few dollars.

    Then shouldn't the "penny" be adjusted for inflation?

    -a-a-a-aYes but the US Penny is being eliminated due to cost. Last I read was about
    -a-a-a 4.6 cents to make each penny.-a And it is now mostly zinc so not a copper's worth.


    Whatever it costs to make, this little blurb has gotten through my
    mental media filters to mildly annoy me[1]. The way the media I've seen
    tosses this out there[2], it's presented as a self-evident fact that a
    penny should never cost more than 1 cent to make.

    Should it cost less than 10 cents to make a dime? Less than a dollar to
    make a dollar bill?

    And if a penny gets used 10 times, is it worth 10 cents? If it gets used
    100 times, is it worth a dollar?

    And how much "should" it cost to make a nation's currency secure from counterfeiting, duplication, etc?

    Tony
    [1] Only mildly annoyed, and even some of that annoyance is the fact
    that this slipped through my filters.
    [2] Not you - just using this opportunity to jump in.
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?=@ldo@nz.invalid to rec.arts.sf.written on Wed Feb 18 22:40:06 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

    On Wed, 18 Feb 2026 16:19:46 -0500, Tony Nance wrote:

    Should it cost less than 10 cents to make a dime? Less than a dollar
    to make a dollar bill?

    One would hope so. Otherwise the companies making the currency end up
    being richer than the entire countries that are paying them to make
    that currency.
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From kludge@kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) to rec.arts.sf.written on Wed Feb 18 19:05:58 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

    Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?= <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
    On Wed, 18 Feb 2026 16:19:46 -0500, Tony Nance wrote:

    Should it cost less than 10 cents to make a dime? Less than a dollar
    to make a dollar bill?

    One would hope so. Otherwise the companies making the currency end up
    being richer than the entire countries that are paying them to make
    that currency.

    That's what happened in Zimbabwe.
    --scott
    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Bobbie Sellers@bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com to rec.arts.sf.written on Wed Feb 18 18:28:31 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written



    On 2/18/26 16:05, Scott Dorsey wrote:
    Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?= <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
    On Wed, 18 Feb 2026 16:19:46 -0500, Tony Nance wrote:

    Should it cost less than 10 cents to make a dime? Less than a dollar
    to make a dollar bill?

    One would hope so. Otherwise the companies making the currency end up
    being richer than the entire countries that are paying them to make
    that currency.

    That's what happened in Zimbabwe.
    --scott


    Once Rome slipped away from the copper standard it began its decline.
    Should have hired it out to the US Mint. We used to print some other nations currency...

    bliss

    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Titus G@noone@nowhere.com to rec.arts.sf.written on Thu Feb 19 17:22:48 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

    On 17/02/2026 04:11, Cryptoengineer wrote:

    Ryk Spoor, (aka Sea Wasp) used to be a regular here. He still posts
    on FB and his blog. Yesterday he posted an entry of interest on this
    topic

    Another AI Post -- on Assumptions and the Future https://seawasp.dreamwidth.org/642712.html

    Its worth a look.

    Yes. A quick read with interesting questions. My immediate thought was
    of _I, Robot_ the Isaac Asimov short stories.
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Paul S Person@psperson@old.netcom.invalid to rec.arts.sf.written on Thu Feb 19 07:59:21 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

    On Wed, 18 Feb 2026 18:28:31 -0800, Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> wrote:


    On 2/18/26 16:05, Scott Dorsey wrote:
    Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?= <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
    On Wed, 18 Feb 2026 16:19:46 -0500, Tony Nance wrote:

    Should it cost less than 10 cents to make a dime? Less than a dollar
    to make a dollar bill?

    One would hope so. Otherwise the companies making the currency end up
    being richer than the entire countries that are paying them to make
    that currency.

    That's what happened in Zimbabwe.
    --scott


    Once Rome slipped away from the copper standard it began its decline.
    Should have hired it out to the US Mint. We used to print some other
    nations currency...
    The <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Theresa_thaler> is produced
    by the Austrian mint (among others) and is used in a lot more places
    than I thought before reading that article, apparently always dated
    1780. Yet both Maria Theresa and the Holy Roman Empire have been gone
    for quite some time.
    I first learned of it when taking Arabic while in the Army. It was the
    coin used by Beduins, and the Arabic "dullar" (long U) came, we were
    told, directly from /Thaler/, not "dollar" (which itself comes from --
    you guessed it -- /Thaler/).
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan@tednolan to rec.arts.sf.written on Thu Feb 19 16:50:51 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

    In article <1acepklrubuuscj19q0k3kg0gp7njh21ch@4ax.com>,
    Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Wed, 18 Feb 2026 18:28:31 -0800, Bobbie Sellers ><bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> wrote:



    On 2/18/26 16:05, Scott Dorsey wrote:
    Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?= <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
    On Wed, 18 Feb 2026 16:19:46 -0500, Tony Nance wrote:

    Should it cost less than 10 cents to make a dime? Less than a dollar >>>>> to make a dollar bill?

    One would hope so. Otherwise the companies making the currency end up
    being richer than the entire countries that are paying them to make
    that currency.

    That's what happened in Zimbabwe.
    --scott


    Once Rome slipped away from the copper standard it began its decline. >> Should have hired it out to the US Mint. We used to print some other >>nations currency...

    The <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Theresa_thaler> is produced
    by the Austrian mint (among others) and is used in a lot more places
    than I thought before reading that article, apparently always dated
    1780. Yet both Maria Theresa and the Holy Roman Empire have been gone
    for quite some time.

    I first learned of it when taking Arabic while in the Army. It was the
    coin used by Beduins, and the Arabic "dullar" (long U) came, we were
    told, directly from /Thaler/, not "dollar" (which itself comes from --
    you guessed it -- /Thaler/).
    --

    I believe France still prints (and somewhat manages) the currency of
    a number of its former colonies.
    --
    columbiaclosings.com
    What's not in Columbia anymore..
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Christian Weisgerber@naddy@mips.inka.de to rec.arts.sf.written on Thu Feb 19 19:56:14 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

    On 2026-02-19, Ted Nolan <tednolan> <ted@loft.tnolan.com> wrote:

    I believe France still prints (and somewhat manages) the currency of
    a number of its former colonies.

    I'm pretty sure the German Bundesdruckerei prints the banknotes for
    any number of countries, although neither it nor the central banks
    concerned seem eager to publish details.
    --
    Christian "naddy" Weisgerber naddy@mips.inka.de
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From William Hyde@wthyde1953@gmail.com to rec.arts.sf.written on Thu Feb 19 17:07:17 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

    Bobbie Sellers wrote:


    On 2/18/26 16:05, Scott Dorsey wrote:
    Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?=-a <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
    On Wed, 18 Feb 2026 16:19:46 -0500, Tony Nance wrote:

    Should it cost less than 10 cents to make a dime? Less than a dollar
    to make a dollar bill?

    One would hope so. Otherwise the companies making the currency end up
    being richer than the entire countries that are paying them to make
    that currency.

    That's what happened in Zimbabwe.
    --scott


    -a-a-a-aOnce Rome slipped away from the copper standard it began its decline.


    One of the most despised emperors, Domitian, actually reestablished the currency in the 80s and 90s. The prosperity of the empire under the
    "five good emperors" owed a lot to his reform.

    Well, that and the vast amount of loot Trajan acquired in his conquests.


    -a-a-a-aShould have hired it out to the US Mint.-a We used to print some other
    nations currency...

    Ah, the American Banknote Company, founded in 1795 and still extant
    despite a recent bankruptcy. They no longer print banknotes, however.

    There were a number of amusing scandals around the ABC, not involving nefarious activity by the company, but by people acting in its name.
    After all, who wouldn't trust a well-dressed rep of the ABC?

    William Hyde

    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?=@ldo@nz.invalid to rec.arts.sf.written on Fri Feb 20 05:56:16 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

    On Thu, 19 Feb 2026 19:56:14 -0000 (UTC), Christian Weisgerber wrote:

    I'm pretty sure the German Bundesdruckerei prints the banknotes for
    any number of countries, although neither it nor the central banks
    concerned seem eager to publish details.

    I wonder how a business like that gets new customers ...
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Dimensional Traveler@dtravel@sonic.net to rec.arts.sf.written on Thu Feb 19 22:13:37 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

    On 2/19/2026 9:56 PM, Lawrence DrCOOliveiro wrote:
    On Thu, 19 Feb 2026 19:56:14 -0000 (UTC), Christian Weisgerber wrote:

    I'm pretty sure the German Bundesdruckerei prints the banknotes for
    any number of countries, although neither it nor the central banks
    concerned seem eager to publish details.

    I wonder how a business like that gets new customers ...

    There are always new revolutions and coups....
    --
    I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
    dirty old man.
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Paul S Person@psperson@old.netcom.invalid to rec.arts.sf.written on Fri Feb 20 08:39:28 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

    On Thu, 19 Feb 2026 07:59:21 -0800, Paul S Person
    <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    <forgot something>
    The <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Theresa_thaler> is produced
    by the Austrian mint (among others) and is used in a lot more places
    than I thought before reading that article, apparently always dated
    1780. Yet both Maria Theresa and the Holy Roman Empire have been gone
    for quite some time.
    For those who think the cost of minting a penny has anything to do
    with it's usefulness or whether it should continue to be minted:
    the Maria Theresa is solid silver. Even if it's economic value is
    equal to that of the amount of silver in it, the cost of making it
    will be more than that.
    Keep in mind that, originally, many of the words used for coins were
    measures of /weight/. It is not necessary to go back to BC and refer
    to the talent; the British /pound/ was originally a pound of sterling
    silver.
    The original coins were the given weight of the given material; they
    cost more than that to make; but, at least in theory, they were
    convenient because they did not have to be weighed, the official
    stamping guaranteed the weight.
    Of course, forgery, coin-clipping, adulteration, and other financial
    crimes followed, if not immediately, then quite soon.
    This would have been one of the concerns behind ensuring correct
    weights and measures, which exists to this day in some contexts.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Paul S Person@psperson@old.netcom.invalid to rec.arts.sf.written on Fri Feb 20 08:40:44 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

    On Fri, 20 Feb 2026 05:56:16 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D|Oliveiro
    <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
    On Thu, 19 Feb 2026 19:56:14 -0000 (UTC), Christian Weisgerber wrote:

    I'm pretty sure the German Bundesdruckerei prints the banknotes for
    any number of countries, although neither it nor the central banks
    concerned seem eager to publish details.

    I wonder how a business like that gets new customers ...
    Those in the business are, no doubt, well aware of such services.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Robert Carnegie@rja.carnegie@gmail.com to rec.arts.sf.written on Sun Feb 22 19:42:37 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

    On 15/02/2026 16:55, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Sun, 15 Feb 2026 08:11:51 -0500 (EST), kludge@panix.com (Scott
    Dorsey) wrote:

    Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?= <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
    On Sat, 14 Feb 2026 12:19:59 -0500 (EST), Scott Dorsey wrote:

    "A penny's worth of better algorithm is worth a million dollars
    worth of better hardware."
    -- gus baird

    Was that back when programmers were being paid pennies to program
    computers worth millions of dollars?

    Yes, as opposed today when programmers are paid pennies to write
    programs run on millions of computers each worth only a few dollars.

    Then shouldn't the "penny" be adjusted for inflation?

    Code review alone costs more nowadays...

    Charles Stross's fixup _Accelerando_ eventually
    imagines planets converted entirely to computing
    matter, probably operating as optimally as
    possible, but there is reasonable doubt that
    it is doing anything useful. Doubt only, because
    living humans are no longer in the Solar System -
    so how could they tell?
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Robert Carnegie@rja.carnegie@gmail.com to rec.arts.sf.written on Sun Feb 22 19:49:02 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

    On 15/02/2026 18:40, Bobbie Sellers wrote:


    On 2/15/26 08:55, Paul S Person wrote:
    On Sun, 15 Feb 2026 08:11:51 -0500 (EST), kludge@panix.com (Scott
    Dorsey) wrote:

    Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?=-a <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
    On Sat, 14 Feb 2026 12:19:59 -0500 (EST), Scott Dorsey wrote:

    "A penny's worth of better algorithm is worth a million dollars
    -a worth of better hardware."
    -a-a-a-a-a -- gus baird

    Was that back when programmers were being paid pennies to program
    computers worth millions of dollars?

    Yes, as opposed today when programmers are paid pennies to write
    programs run on millions of computers each worth only a few dollars.

    Then shouldn't the "penny" be adjusted for inflation?

    -a-a-a-aYes but the US Penny is being eliminated due to cost. Last I read was about
    -a-a-a 4.6 cents to make each penny.-a And it is now mostly zinc so not a copper's worth.

    This comes up in Terry ptpratchett's comedy
    fantasy novel, _Making Money_.

    Summary and spoiler: A fantasy city reforms
    the currency by inventing banknotes.

    Along the way, the reluctant bank manager
    meets the craftsmen who produce his metal
    money, some of which indeed costs more than
    its face value to make. This isn't treated
    as mad, but it is held up as a paradox.

    I suppose in the old days in the real world,
    value resided in actual metal, and a coin design
    represented a statement that the coin actually
    contained the right amount of the right metal.
    Unless, as pointed out, someone trimmed some
    off the edges.
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2