• Re: A Conventional Boy by Charles Stross...

    From Michael F. Stemper@michael.stemper@gmail.com to rec.arts.sf.written on Wed Feb 25 15:43:34 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

    On 30/01/2026 11.41, Paul S Person wrote:

    [1] Did anyone else notice that, at the end of one of the Lensmen
    books, the boy is advised by a senior to marry the girl and the next
    book starts with them being married long enough to have children (and
    not, IIRC, infants either) with /no clue whatsoever where the babies
    came from being provided/? This is the sort of thing that the later
    sex-laded stories were reacting against.

    "The boy"? I am assuming that you're referring to the roughly twenty-year
    gap between _Second Stage Lensman_ and _Children of the Lens_. If so, Kinnison was probably 22 when he graduated from Wentworth Hall. The events of _Galactic Patrol_, _Gray Lensman_, and _Second Stage Lensman_ took about nine years by
    my reckoning, so he would have been roughly thirty-one when he and MacDougall married. Not, in my mind, a "boy" any more.

    And the "senior" wasn't another, higher-up officer, but Mentor of Arisia.

    I think that most people, even in the 1950s, already knew where babies came from. Even an exceptionally naive twelve-year-old boy would at least be aware, from observation, that babies often followed marriage, even if he wasn't aware of all of the fluid dynamics and simple harmonic motion involved.

    Smith didn't portray Kimball and "Red" having sex, it's true. He didn't portray the happy couple moving to the Second Galaxy, either. He also didn't portray Kimball taking a dump.

    And your recollection that the Children of the Lens were not infants is
    quite correct. The youngest -- the twins Camilla and Constance -- were
    roughly sixteen when _Children of the Lens_ opens. Old enough that one
    of them had to fend off a wolf when (IIRC) checking into some hotel.

    There were plenty of allusions to sex in _Children of the Lens_, mostly
    Kit noticing that his sisters were pretty hot and his mother was in
    MILF territory herself. Serious implied incest -- enough to make RAH
    proud -- even if the acts themselves were not portrayed.
    --
    Michael F. Stemper
    Deuteronomy 24:17

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  • From Paul S Person@psperson@old.netcom.invalid to rec.arts.sf.written on Wed Feb 25 13:54:51 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

    On Wed, 25 Feb 2026 15:43:34 -0600, "Michael F. Stemper" <michael.stemper@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 30/01/2026 11.41, Paul S Person wrote:

    [1] Did anyone else notice that, at the end of one of the Lensmen
    books, the boy is advised by a senior to marry the girl and the next
    book starts with them being married long enough to have children (and
    not, IIRC, infants either) with /no clue whatsoever where the babies
    came from being provided/? This is the sort of thing that the later
    sex-laded stories were reacting against.

    "The boy"? I am assuming that you're referring to the roughly twenty-year
    gap between _Second Stage Lensman_ and _Children of the Lens_. If so, Kinnison >was probably 22 when he graduated from Wentworth Hall. The events of _Galactic >Patrol_, _Gray Lensman_, and _Second Stage Lensman_ took about nine years by >my reckoning, so he would have been roughly thirty-one when he and MacDougall >married. Not, in my mind, a "boy" any more.
    Apparently, you missed the fact that "the boy" was paired with "the
    girl", thus recalling the use of "boy and girl" in romantic contexts.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
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  • From ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan@tednolan to rec.arts.sf.written on Wed Feb 25 22:03:53 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

    In article <10nnqe6$1430i$1@dont-email.me>,
    Michael F. Stemper <michael.stemper@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 30/01/2026 11.41, Paul S Person wrote:

    [1] Did anyone else notice that, at the end of one of the Lensmen
    books, the boy is advised by a senior to marry the girl and the next
    book starts with them being married long enough to have children (and
    not, IIRC, infants either) with /no clue whatsoever where the babies
    came from being provided/? This is the sort of thing that the later
    sex-laded stories were reacting against.

    "The boy"? I am assuming that you're referring to the roughly twenty-year
    gap between _Second Stage Lensman_ and _Children of the Lens_. If so, Kinnison >was probably 22 when he graduated from Wentworth Hall. The events of _Galactic >Patrol_, _Gray Lensman_, and _Second Stage Lensman_ took about nine years by >my reckoning, so he would have been roughly thirty-one when he and MacDougall >married. Not, in my mind, a "boy" any more.

    And the "senior" wasn't another, higher-up officer, but Mentor of Arisia.

    I think that most people, even in the 1950s, already knew where babies came >from. Even an exceptionally naive twelve-year-old boy would at least be aware, >from observation, that babies often followed marriage, even if he wasn't aware >of all of the fluid dynamics and simple harmonic motion involved.

    Smith didn't portray Kimball and "Red" having sex, it's true. He didn't portray
    the happy couple moving to the Second Galaxy, either. He also didn't portray >Kimball taking a dump.

    And your recollection that the Children of the Lens were not infants is
    quite correct. The youngest -- the twins Camilla and Constance -- were >roughly sixteen when _Children of the Lens_ opens. Old enough that one
    of them had to fend off a wolf when (IIRC) checking into some hotel.

    There were plenty of allusions to sex in _Children of the Lens_, mostly
    Kit noticing that his sisters were pretty hot and his mother was in
    MILF territory herself. Serious implied incest -- enough to make RAH
    proud -- even if the acts themselves were not portrayed.



    I think Smith got away with about as much as Campbell would allow. Remember all the naked people in both the Skylark & Lensman universes?

    Reading his detective novel is instructive.
    --
    columbiaclosings.com
    What's not in Columbia anymore..
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  • From Robert Woodward@robertaw@drizzle.com to rec.arts.sf.written on Wed Feb 25 22:05:41 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

    In article <n099u9F6c9qU1@mid.individual.net>,
    ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) wrote:

    In article <10nnqe6$1430i$1@dont-email.me>,
    Michael F. Stemper <michael.stemper@gmail.com> wrote:

    (Snip, re: the Lensman series


    And your recollection that the Children of the Lens were not infants is >quite correct. The youngest -- the twins Camilla and Constance -- were >roughly sixteen when _Children of the Lens_ opens. Old enough that one
    of them had to fend off a wolf when (IIRC) checking into some hotel.

    There were plenty of allusions to sex in _Children of the Lens_, mostly
    Kit noticing that his sisters were pretty hot and his mother was in
    MILF territory herself. Serious implied incest -- enough to make RAH
    proud -- even if the acts themselves were not portrayed.


    I remember a prediction from Mentor that implied future brother-sisters
    (all 4 of them) incest



    I think Smith got away with about as much as Campbell would allow. Remember all the naked people in both the Skylark & Lensman universes?

    Reading his detective novel is instructive.

    ?? ... looks through the ISFDB ... _Have Trenchcoat -- Will Travel_, I
    wonder when it was written.
    --
    "We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
    Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_. i-----------------------------------------------------
    Robert Woodward robertaw@drizzle.com
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  • From ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan@tednolan to rec.arts.sf.written on Thu Feb 26 13:34:11 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

    In article <robertaw-4D7E1E.22054125022026@news.individual.net>,
    Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:
    In article <n099u9F6c9qU1@mid.individual.net>,
    ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) wrote:

    In article <10nnqe6$1430i$1@dont-email.me>,
    Michael F. Stemper <michael.stemper@gmail.com> wrote:

    (Snip, re: the Lensman series


    And your recollection that the Children of the Lens were not infants is
    quite correct. The youngest -- the twins Camilla and Constance -- were
    roughly sixteen when _Children of the Lens_ opens. Old enough that one
    of them had to fend off a wolf when (IIRC) checking into some hotel.

    There were plenty of allusions to sex in _Children of the Lens_, mostly
    Kit noticing that his sisters were pretty hot and his mother was in
    MILF territory herself. Serious implied incest -- enough to make RAH
    proud -- even if the acts themselves were not portrayed.


    I remember a prediction from Mentor that implied future brother-sisters
    (all 4 of them) incest



    I think Smith got away with about as much as Campbell would allow. Remember >> all the naked people in both the Skylark & Lensman universes?

    Reading his detective novel is instructive.

    ?? ... looks through the ISFDB ... _Have Trenchcoat -- Will Travel_, I >wonder when it was written.


    Early Cold War. The publisher's notes say early '60s, but I think a bit
    before that. It's flawed, but very interesting while being all over the place. --
    columbiaclosings.com
    What's not in Columbia anymore..
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  • From Michael F. Stemper@michael.stemper@gmail.com to rec.arts.sf.written on Fri Feb 27 13:57:15 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

    On 25/02/2026 16.03, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
    In article <10nnqe6$1430i$1@dont-email.me>,
    Michael F. Stemper <michael.stemper@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 30/01/2026 11.41, Paul S Person wrote:

    [1] Did anyone else notice that, at the end of one of the Lensmen
    books, the boy is advised by a senior to marry the girl and the next
    book starts with them being married long enough to have children (and
    not, IIRC, infants either) with /no clue whatsoever where the babies
    came from being provided/? This is the sort of thing that the later
    sex-laded stories were reacting against.


    There were plenty of allusions to sex in _Children of the Lens_, mostly
    Kit noticing that his sisters were pretty hot and his mother was in
    MILF territory herself. Serious implied incest -- enough to make RAH
    proud -- even if the acts themselves were not portrayed.


    I think Smith got away with about as much as Campbell would allow.

    You seem to have misspelled "F. Orlin Tremaine". Hope this helps.

    Reading his detective novel is instructive.

    I'd definitely like to, but haven't ever seen it on a shelf.
    --
    Michael F. Stemper
    Exodus 22:21

    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan@tednolan to rec.arts.sf.written on Fri Feb 27 22:47:37 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.sf.written

    In article <10nssur$2pe74$1@dont-email.me>,
    Michael F. Stemper <michael.stemper@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 25/02/2026 16.03, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
    In article <10nnqe6$1430i$1@dont-email.me>,
    Michael F. Stemper <michael.stemper@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 30/01/2026 11.41, Paul S Person wrote:

    [1] Did anyone else notice that, at the end of one of the Lensmen
    books, the boy is advised by a senior to marry the girl and the next
    book starts with them being married long enough to have children (and
    not, IIRC, infants either) with /no clue whatsoever where the babies
    came from being provided/? This is the sort of thing that the later
    sex-laded stories were reacting against.


    There were plenty of allusions to sex in _Children of the Lens_, mostly
    Kit noticing that his sisters were pretty hot and his mother was in
    MILF territory herself. Serious implied incest -- enough to make RAH
    proud -- even if the acts themselves were not portrayed.


    I think Smith got away with about as much as Campbell would allow.

    You seem to have misspelled "F. Orlin Tremaine". Hope this helps.

    I don't think so, except for he probably bought _Galactic Patrol_,
    which ran one of its six installments during his tenure but the rest seem to have been on Campbell's watch.


    Reading his detective novel is instructive.

    I'd definitely like to, but haven't ever seen it on a shelf.


    It is available on Amazon and presumably elsewhere.
    --
    columbiaclosings.com
    What's not in Columbia anymore..
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2