Now we come to the speech rules. Montreal's aren't as bad as some; they don't say that anything that anyone takes offense at violates the rules. Still, they could make people wary of what they're allowed to say, and
could in principle lead to unwarranted warnings or expulsions.
"Costumes and clothing may not include racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic, or otherwise prejudiced or bigoted messages or sentiments, obscene or offensive language, or images including uncensored
profanities and pornographic content." This rule is vague and could
easily be abused. The boundary lines of unconventional opinions,
prejudiced messages, and humor are often vague. Profanities are often
part of ordinary language and can appear on shirts without causing
alarm. Don't wear your "Shit Happens" or "To Hell with [whatever]" shirt
to the con. Some people will consider a slogan supporting Israel
bigoted; others will think that one supporting Palestine is. The rule's broadness could scare off legitimate expression or provide an excuse for banning it.
Do not forget that Montreal is in Canada, and their free speech laws
differ from those of the US. In specific, Canada has laws restricting
hate speech, obscenity, and defamation. Montreal is, so far as I can
tell, merely trying to incorporate this information in their Code of >Conduct.
Montreal is also in Quebec so it may be an idea to learn one or
two phrases in French, such as Bonjour (Hello), Merci (thank you),
and Je suis maudit Anglais (I am not from Quebec).
In article <10f4sia$26gpu$1@dont-email.me>,
Evelyn C. Leeper <evelynchimelisleeper@gmail.com> wrote:
Do not forget that Montreal is in Canada, and their free speech laws
differ from those of the US. In specific, Canada has laws restricting
hate speech, obscenity, and defamation. Montreal is, so far as I can
tell, merely trying to incorporate this information in their Code of
Conduct.
Montreal is also in Quebec so it may be an idea to learn one or
two phrases in French, such as Bonjour (Hello), Merci (thank you),
and Je suis maudit Anglais (I am not from Quebec).
On 11/13/25 11:02 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
In article <10f4sia$26gpu$1@dont-email.me>,
Evelyn C. Leeper <evelynchimelisleeper@gmail.com> wrote:
Do not forget that Montreal is in Canada, and their free speech laws
differ from those of the US. In specific, Canada has laws restricting
hate speech, obscenity, and defamation. Montreal is, so far as I can
tell, merely trying to incorporate this information in their Code of
Conduct.
Montreal is also in Quebec so it may be an idea to learn one or
two phrases in French, such as Bonjour (Hello), Merci (thank you),
and Je suis maudit Anglais (I am not from Quebec).
Vraiment amusant.
On 11/13/25 12:09 PM, Evelyn C. Leeper wrote:
On 11/13/25 11:02 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
In article <10f4sia$26gpu$1@dont-email.me>,
Evelyn C. Leeper <evelynchimelisleeper@gmail.com> wrote:
Do not forget that Montreal is in Canada, and their free speech laws
differ from those of the US. In specific, Canada has laws restricting
hate speech, obscenity, and defamation. Montreal is, so far as I can
tell, merely trying to incorporate this information in their Code of
Conduct.
Montreal is also in Quebec so it may be an idea to learn one or
two phrases in French, such as Bonjour (Hello), Merci (thank you),
and Je suis maudit Anglais (I am not from Quebec).
Vraiment amusant.
Actually, the important phrase is "J'ai vote pour Kamala." :-)
The best way to deal with people saying annoying things is to tell
them to leave you alone. Some conventions have a rule that if
someone tells you not to bother them, you have to stop bothering
them. It can defuse a lot of problems.
On 11/13/25 7:10 AM, Gary McGath wrote:
Now we come to the speech rules. Montreal's aren't as bad as some;
they don't say that anything that anyone takes offense at violates the
rules. Still, they could make people wary of what they're allowed to
say, and could in principle lead to unwarranted warnings or expulsions.
"Costumes and clothing may not include racist, sexist, homophobic,
transphobic, or otherwise prejudiced or bigoted messages or
sentiments, obscene or offensive language, or images including
uncensored profanities and pornographic content." This rule is vague
and could easily be abused. The boundary lines of unconventional
opinions, prejudiced messages, and humor are often vague. Profanities
are often part of ordinary language and can appear on shirts without
causing alarm. Don't wear your "Shit Happens" or "To Hell with
[whatever]" shirt to the con. Some people will consider a slogan
supporting Israel bigoted; others will think that one supporting
Palestine is. The rule's broadness could scare off legitimate
expression or provide an excuse for banning it.
Do not forget that Montreal is in Canada, and their free speech laws
differ from those of the US. In specific, Canada has laws restricting
hate speech, obscenity, and defamation. Montreal is, so far as I can
tell, merely trying to incorporate this information in their Code of Conduct.
Gary McGath <garym@mcgath.com> wrote:
The best way to deal with people saying annoying things is to tell
them to leave you alone. Some conventions have a rule that if
someone tells you not to bother them, you have to stop bothering
them. It can defuse a lot of problems.
At Balticon, asking someone to leave you alone constitutes harassment.
In article <10f4sia$26gpu$1@dont-email.me>,
Evelyn C. Leeper <evelynchimelisleeper@gmail.com> wrote:
Do not forget that Montreal is in Canada, and their free speech laws
differ from those of the US. In specific, Canada has laws restricting
hate speech, obscenity, and defamation. Montreal is, so far as I can
tell, merely trying to incorporate this information in their Code of
Conduct.
Montreal is also in Quebec so it may be an idea to learn one or
two phrases in French, such as Bonjour (Hello), Merci (thank you),
and Je suis maudit Anglais (I am not from Quebec).
On 11/13/2025 8:02 AM, James Nicoll wrote:
In article <10f4sia$26gpu$1@dont-email.me>,
Evelyn C. Leeper <evelynchimelisleeper@gmail.com> wrote:
Do not forget that Montreal is in Canada, and their free speech laws
differ from those of the US. In specific, Canada has laws restricting
hate speech, obscenity, and defamation. Montreal is, so far as I can
tell, merely trying to incorporate this information in their Code of
Conduct.
Montreal is also in Quebec so it may be an idea to learn one or
two phrases in French, such as Bonjour (Hello), Merci (thank you),
and Je suis maudit Anglais (I am not from Quebec).
:) Did you learn that from a Qu|-becois?-a It actually translates to "I am cursed English."
On 11/13/25 5:24 PM, Keith F. Lynch wrote:
Gary McGath <garym@mcgath.com> wrote:
The best way to deal with people saying annoying things is to tell
them to leave you alone. Some conventions have a rule that if
someone tells you not to bother them, you have to stop bothering
them. It can defuse a lot of problems.
At Balticon, asking someone to leave you alone constitutes harassment.
Balticon is worse than most cons, though not unique. It prohibits saying >anything derogatory about anybody.
Gary McGath <garym@mcgath.com> wrote:
Balticon is worse than most cons, though not unique. It prohibits
saying anything derogatory about anybody.
[Hal Heydt]
Even the ConComm? Or should that be, especially the ConComm?
Dorothy J Heydt <djheydt@kithrup.com> wrote:
Gary McGath <garym@mcgath.com> wrote:
Balticon is worse than most cons, though not unique. It prohibits
saying anything derogatory about anybody.
[Hal Heydt]
Even the ConComm? Or should that be, especially the ConComm?
According to https://www.bsfs.org/code-conduct.htm:
UNACCEPTABLE CONDUCT:
* Slurs and derogatory comments about a person, group, or category
of people.
Anyone who thinks they don't take that literally, ask Stephanie Burke.
I think the point was that if the rule were applied to the concom,
it would negate itself. After all, saying someone has made a
derogatory comment is a derogatory comment.
Gary McGath <garym@mcgath.com> wrote:
I think the point was that if the rule were applied to the concom,
it would negate itself. After all, saying someone has made a
derogatory comment is a derogatory comment.
Good point. I've wondered the same about rules such as, "You're not
allowed to weaponize any of these rules."
Unfortunately for Balticon's concom, lots of fans have long since
concluded that the only way to win the Balticon game is not to play.
:) Did you learn that from a Quobecois? It actually translates to "I
am cursed English."
(It reminded me of the Monty Python skit "Dirty Hungarian
Phrasebook".)
I don't know much about Canada's speech laws, but what I can find
doesn't suggest that the country has outlawed profanities or merely prejudiced statements. The criminal code includes three areas of "hatred-related" speech offenses: advocating genocide, publicly inciting hatred likely to lead to a breach of the peace, and wilfully promoting hatred. The first two don't apply here. It would be a big stretch for "prejudiced or bigoted" statements in private conversation to be counted
as "promoting hatred."
I just don't think the concom was forced to include this by their
lawyers. The language doesn't appear to reflect national or provincial
laws, but it is similar to language in other convention codes of
conduct, including many in the US.
On 11/13/25 5:40 PM, Gary McGath wrote:
I don't know much about Canada's speech laws, but what I can find
doesn't suggest that the country has outlawed profanities or merely
prejudiced statements. The criminal code includes three areas of
"hatred-related" speech offenses: advocating genocide, publicly
inciting hatred likely to lead to a breach of the peace, and wilfully
promoting hatred. The first two don't apply here. It would be a big
stretch for "prejudiced or bigoted" statements in private conversation
to be counted as "promoting hatred."
I just don't think the concom was forced to include this by their
lawyers. The language doesn't appear to reflect national or provincial
laws, but it is similar to language in other convention codes of
conduct, including many in the US.
Quebec's government is considering a law banning prayer in public. (Yes, really.) Perhaps the code of conduct should add praying to the list of prohibited speech, just to make sure they don't run afoul of the law.
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