• Why "Hobbiton"?

    From Louis Epstein@le@lekno.ws to rec.arts.books.tolkien,alt.fan.tolkien on Sat Jan 3 19:47:37 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.books.tolkien


    Every municipality throughout the Suza in the times recorded
    in the Red Book was a town of hobbits.

    So why was the particular settlement beneath the Hill
    and across the Water from Bywater known as "Hobbiton"?
    It's like naming some arbitrary place in human-inhabited
    lands Mantown.

    My only theory is that it is the first place that Marcho
    and Blanco and their followers,having entered across the
    Bridge of Stonebows,decided to stop and build a settlement,
    and things then fanned out from there.
    (Something like Brigham Young,on reaching the
    Great Salt Lake Valley,declaring "This is the right place".)

    -=-=-
    The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
    at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Gottfried Neuner@kyonshi@wilderland.ovh to rec.arts.books.tolkien,alt.fan.tolkien on Sat Jan 3 21:52:04 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.books.tolkien

    On 1/3/2026 8:47 PM, Louis Epstein wrote:
    Every municipality throughout the Suza in the times recorded
    in the Red Book was a town of hobbits.

    So why was the particular settlement beneath the Hill
    and across the Water from Bywater known as "Hobbiton"?
    It's like naming some arbitrary place in human-inhabited
    lands Mantown.

    My only theory is that it is the first place that Marcho
    and Blanco and their followers,having entered across the
    Bridge of Stonebows,decided to stop and build a settlement,
    and things then fanned out from there.
    (Something like Brigham Young,on reaching the
    Great Salt Lake Valley,declaring "This is the right place".)

    -=-=-
    The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
    at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

    That's what I always assumed. From the preface about hobbits in LOTR it
    seemed like Hobbiton was basically the central settlement of the Shire,
    with the mayor of Hobbiton having some ceremonial duties the others
    respected out of tradition, even though the Tooks seemed to be close to
    the leaders of the hobbits, or maybe the Great Took actually WAS the
    mayor at one point. There is precious little information regarding their actual internal politics.
    I have the theory that the Great Took and Belladonna both went on
    adventure with Gandalf (which is why Bilbo's grandfather had such an
    elevated position, and Belladonna had the money so Bungo could build her
    a home). This goes further as Gandalf had his friendship both with Bilbo
    and Frodo.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Louis Epstein@le@lekno.ws to rec.arts.books.tolkien,alt.fan.tolkien on Tue Jan 6 05:04:27 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.books.tolkien

    In alt.fan.tolkien Gottfried Neuner <kyonshi@wilderland.ovh> wrote:
    On 1/3/2026 8:47 PM, Louis Epstein wrote:
    Every municipality throughout the Suza in the times recorded
    in the Red Book was a town of hobbits.

    So why was the particular settlement beneath the Hill
    and across the Water from Bywater known as "Hobbiton"?
    It's like naming some arbitrary place in human-inhabited
    lands Mantown.

    My only theory is that it is the first place that Marcho
    and Blanco and their followers,having entered across the
    Bridge of Stonebows,decided to stop and build a settlement,
    and things then fanned out from there.
    (Something like Brigham Young,on reaching the
    Great Salt Lake Valley,declaring "This is the right place".)


    That's what I always assumed. From the preface about hobbits in LOTR it seemed like Hobbiton was basically the central settlement of the Shire,
    with the mayor of Hobbiton having some ceremonial duties the others respected out of tradition, even though the Tooks seemed to be close to
    the leaders of the hobbits, or maybe the Great Took actually WAS the
    mayor at one point. There is precious little information regarding their actual internal politics.

    You're confusing several positions.

    There's no record of HOBBITON having a Mayor...
    the Mayor of Michel Delving (a large settlement in
    the West-farthing,seat of the septennial Free Fair)
    was sometimes called Mayor of the Shire as he headed
    the Shire-wide Quick Post and Shirriff services.

    The Thainship of the Shire was held by the Brandybucks
    of the East-farthing until they crossed the Baranduin and
    built Buckland for themselves,and thereafter by the Tooks
    of Great Smials.

    Neither of those posts was based in Hobbiton.

    I have the theory that the Great Took and Belladonna both went on
    adventure with Gandalf (which is why Bilbo's grandfather had such an elevated position, and Belladonna had the money so Bungo could build her
    a home). This goes further as Gandalf had his friendship both with Bilbo
    and Frodo.

    The Thainship was hereditary,Gerontius merely had the right father
    to inherit...and holding its duties would not let one leave for an adventure,though two of his younger sons did.(I can not be certain
    that he was the only son of his father,which would have inhibited
    his travels even before inheriting,I suspect,though Pippin was
    obviously free to leave his Thain father behind,since the family
    tree needed to have room for all the Old Took's children he may
    have had ignored siblings and may not).

    -=-=-
    The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
    at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Paul S Person@psperson@old.netcom.invalid to rec.arts.books.tolkien,alt.fan.tolkien on Tue Jan 6 08:39:00 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.books.tolkien

    On Tue, 6 Jan 2026 05:04:27 -0000 (UTC), Louis Epstein <le@lekno.ws>
    wrote:
    In alt.fan.tolkien Gottfried Neuner <kyonshi@wilderland.ovh> wrote:
    On 1/3/2026 8:47 PM, Louis Epstein wrote:
    Every municipality throughout the Suza in the times recorded
    in the Red Book was a town of hobbits.

    So why was the particular settlement beneath the Hill
    and across the Water from Bywater known as "Hobbiton"?
    It's like naming some arbitrary place in human-inhabited
    lands Mantown.

    My only theory is that it is the first place that Marcho
    and Blanco and their followers,having entered across the
    Bridge of Stonebows,decided to stop and build a settlement,
    and things then fanned out from there.
    (Something like Brigham Young,on reaching the
    Great Salt Lake Valley,declaring "This is the right place".)


    That's what I always assumed. From the preface about hobbits in LOTR it
    seemed like Hobbiton was basically the central settlement of the Shire,
    with the mayor of Hobbiton having some ceremonial duties the others
    respected out of tradition, even though the Tooks seemed to be close to
    the leaders of the hobbits, or maybe the Great Took actually WAS the
    mayor at one point. There is precious little information regarding their
    actual internal politics.

    You're confusing several positions.

    There's no record of HOBBITON having a Mayor...
    the Mayor of Michel Delving (a large settlement in
    the West-farthing,seat of the septennial Free Fair)
    was sometimes called Mayor of the Shire as he headed
    the Shire-wide Quick Post and Shirriff services.

    The Thainship of the Shire was held by the Brandybucks
    of the East-farthing until they crossed the Baranduin and
    built Buckland for themselves,and thereafter by the Tooks
    of Great Smials.

    Neither of those posts was based in Hobbiton.

    I have the theory that the Great Took and Belladonna both went on
    adventure with Gandalf (which is why Bilbo's grandfather had such an
    elevated position, and Belladonna had the money so Bungo could build her
    a home). This goes further as Gandalf had his friendship both with Bilbo
    and Frodo.

    The Thainship was hereditary,Gerontius merely had the right father
    to inherit...and holding its duties would not let one leave for an >adventure,though two of his younger sons did.(I can not be certain
    that he was the only son of his father,which would have inhibited
    his travels even before inheriting,I suspect,though Pippin was
    obviously free to leave his Thain father behind,since the family
    tree needed to have room for all the Old Took's children he may
    have had ignored siblings and may not).
    IIRC, Pippin was referred to as "the last desperate hope of the
    Tooks", which some would interpret as meaning "the only possible
    heir". At least as things stood then; as with all such dynastic
    situations, a new birth could have changed this at some point.
    That his leaving on an adventure showed him to not be an obedient son
    may well be correct, however.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Louis Epstein@le@lekno.ws to rec.arts.books.tolkien,alt.fan.tolkien on Wed Jan 7 01:27:46 2026
    From Newsgroup: rec.arts.books.tolkien

    In rec.arts.books.tolkien Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
    On Tue, 6 Jan 2026 05:04:27 -0000 (UTC), Louis Epstein <le@lekno.ws>
    wrote:

    In alt.fan.tolkien Gottfried Neuner <kyonshi@wilderland.ovh> wrote:
    On 1/3/2026 8:47 PM, Louis Epstein wrote:
    Every municipality throughout the Suza in the times recorded
    in the Red Book was a town of hobbits.

    So why was the particular settlement beneath the Hill
    and across the Water from Bywater known as "Hobbiton"?
    It's like naming some arbitrary place in human-inhabited
    lands Mantown.

    My only theory is that it is the first place that Marcho
    and Blanco and their followers,having entered across the
    Bridge of Stonebows,decided to stop and build a settlement,
    and things then fanned out from there.
    (Something like Brigham Young,on reaching the
    Great Salt Lake Valley,declaring "This is the right place".)


    That's what I always assumed. From the preface about hobbits in LOTR it >>> seemed like Hobbiton was basically the central settlement of the Shire, >>> with the mayor of Hobbiton having some ceremonial duties the others
    respected out of tradition, even though the Tooks seemed to be close to >>> the leaders of the hobbits, or maybe the Great Took actually WAS the
    mayor at one point. There is precious little information regarding their >>> actual internal politics.

    You're confusing several positions.

    There's no record of HOBBITON having a Mayor...
    the Mayor of Michel Delving (a large settlement in
    the West-farthing,seat of the septennial Free Fair)
    was sometimes called Mayor of the Shire as he headed
    the Shire-wide Quick Post and Shirriff services.

    The Thainship of the Shire was held by the Brandybucks
    of the East-farthing until they crossed the Baranduin and
    built Buckland for themselves,and thereafter by the Tooks
    of Great Smials.

    Neither of those posts was based in Hobbiton.

    I have the theory that the Great Took and Belladonna both went on
    adventure with Gandalf (which is why Bilbo's grandfather had such an
    elevated position, and Belladonna had the money so Bungo could build her >>> a home). This goes further as Gandalf had his friendship both with Bilbo >>> and Frodo.

    The Thainship was hereditary,Gerontius merely had the right father
    to inherit...and holding its duties would not let one leave for an >>adventure,though two of his younger sons did.(I can not be certain
    that he was the only son of his father,which would have inhibited
    his travels even before inheriting,I suspect,though Pippin was
    obviously free to leave his Thain father behind,since the family
    tree needed to have room for all the Old Took's children he may
    have had ignored siblings and may not).

    IIRC, Pippin was referred to as "the last desperate hope of the
    Tooks", which some would interpret as meaning "the only possible
    heir". At least as things stood then; as with all such dynastic
    situations, a new birth could have changed this at some point.

    Reginard,Everard,and Ferdibrand Took were male-line descendants of
    Gerontius and we do not know that they never had sons...at the
    end of the Third Age all were younger than Paladin had been when
    he fathered Peregrin.

    That his leaving on an adventure showed him to not be an obedient son
    may well be correct, however.


    -=-=-
    The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
    at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2