From Newsgroup: nz.politics

Was it a breach of international law?
Undoubtedly, but apparently only if Trump agrees that it was.
No different to many other invaders of other countries - they always have a valid reason do they not?
Greed?
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From Newsgroup: nz.politics

On Mon, 5 Jan 2026, Tony <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Was it a breach of international law?

Maduro was an outlaw to most countries, i.e., an illegitimate ruler.
Think of that word, "outlaw": it means outside the law, that is, the
law does not protect you. So international law does not protect
illegitimate rulers. NZ considered Maduro as illegitimate.

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From Newsgroup: nz.politics

wn@nosuch.com (Willy Nilly) wrote:

On Mon, 5 Jan 2026, Tony <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Was it a breach of international law?

Maduro was an outlaw to most countries, i.e., an illegitimate ruler.
Think of that word, "outlaw": it means outside the law, that is, the
law does not protect you. So international law does not protect
illegitimate rulers. NZ considered Maduro as illegitimate.

Yes, but it was an invasion pure and simple. That is illegal.
The proper course would have been through diplomatic or other legal means. But then we are talking about the USA are we not?
Greenland next anyone?
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From Newsgroup: nz.politics

On Tue, 6 Jan 2026, Tony <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Yes, but it was an invasion pure and simple. That is illegal.
The proper course would have been through diplomatic or other legal means.

Consider the below, and tell us which is a higher priority, "the
proper course", or the welfare of a nation's people (remembering that
Maduro was illegitimate because he remained in power after plainly
losing 2 elections, the 2nd overwhelmingly):

Following is a statement by Jeff Kazin, head of trading for Cargill
company in Venezuela in the past 25 years:

"Cargill was/is the leading producer of critical staple ingredients
such as flour, pasta, vegetable oil, and rice in VZ. I am not saying
I agree with grabbing the dictator, but I did have a front row seat to
the damage a kleptocracy did to innocent people.
1. The government took over our "minute rice" facility at gunpoint
because we were "gouging" the nation's poor. The government was
never able to run the plant. It never ran again. It was returned
years later with no equipment inside
2. There are 1000's of generals in the army. They are each given a
slice of the economy to loot. The large number of generals made it
difficult to organize a coup against the regime.
3. The government opened grocery stores and sold staples below the
cost we sold them to the government. In theory they used petro oil
money to lower grocery prices. Our regular grocery outlets were
forced out of business. When the government demanded we sell them
products below cost we simply had to shut down. The populous became
ever more dependent on the government handouts. (PS this is the
mayor of New York City's proposal.
4. Dollars- We needed dollars to go buy raw materials like wheat from
places like the US and Canada. The government would periodically
allocate us some dollars that could only be spent for raw materials
and freight. Eventually only the local companies that can and would
pay bribes got dollar allocations. We had several facilities closed
for lack of raw material
5. My employees liked working for Cargill. The office was an armed
compound with access to a gym, high speed internet, global
communications, and a weekly box of basic staples. Cargill provided a
safe and secure environment if only for the working hours.
6. Employees became very close to others inside the apartment
building. Going out on the street with a desperate population was
not advisable.
7. I needed wood pallets for feed. We tried to export wood pallets
to swap for grain. We refused to pay the bribes it would take to
export the pallets
8. I once tried to set up a closed loop wheat planting to flour mill
supply chain. A. They came and stole all the seed wheat for food.
When we tried to ship in seed wheat in containers via US donors there
was no way to get it out of the port without it being stolen
9. Livestock- Our feed business completely collapsed. Even if you
could raise a pig, you couldn't defend it from being stolen. People
with guns were hungry.
10. Employees- In the end my highly skilled team alone with other
highly educated people chose to leave. Cargill often found jobs for
them in other Latin countries. The regime was more than happy to
see the well-educated leave the country. Setting these employees up
with high quality stable jobs after fleeing remains one of the best
things I ever did in my career. "

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From Newsgroup: nz.politics

wn@nosuch.com (Willy Nilly) wrote:

On Tue, 6 Jan 2026, Tony <lizandtony@orcon.net.nz> wrote:

Yes, but it was an invasion pure and simple. That is illegal.
The proper course would have been through diplomatic or other legal means.

Consider the below, and tell us which is a higher priority, "the
proper course", or the welfare of a nation's people (remembering that
Maduro was illegitimate because he remained in power after plainly
losing 2 elections, the 2nd overwhelmingly):

Following is a statement by Jeff Kazin, head of trading for Cargill
company in Venezuela in the past 25 years:

"Cargill was/is the leading producer of critical staple ingredients
such as flour, pasta, vegetable oil, and rice in VZ. I am not saying
I agree with grabbing the dictator, but I did have a front row seat to
the damage a kleptocracy did to innocent people.
1. The government took over our "minute rice" facility at gunpoint
because we were "gouging" the nation's poor. The government was
never able to run the plant. It never ran again. It was returned
years later with no equipment inside
2. There are 1000's of generals in the army. They are each given a
slice of the economy to loot. The large number of generals made it >difficult to organize a coup against the regime.
3. The government opened grocery stores and sold staples below the
cost we sold them to the government. In theory they used petro oil
money to lower grocery prices. Our regular grocery outlets were
forced out of business. When the government demanded we sell them
products below cost we simply had to shut down. The populous became
ever more dependent on the government handouts. (PS this is the
mayor of New York City's proposal.
4. Dollars- We needed dollars to go buy raw materials like wheat from
places like the US and Canada. The government would periodically
allocate us some dollars that could only be spent for raw materials
and freight. Eventually only the local companies that can and would
pay bribes got dollar allocations. We had several facilities closed
for lack of raw material
5. My employees liked working for Cargill. The office was an armed
compound with access to a gym, high speed internet, global
communications, and a weekly box of basic staples. Cargill provided a
safe and secure environment if only for the working hours.
6. Employees became very close to others inside the apartment
building. Going out on the street with a desperate population was
not advisable.
7. I needed wood pallets for feed. We tried to export wood pallets
to swap for grain. We refused to pay the bribes it would take to
export the pallets
8. I once tried to set up a closed loop wheat planting to flour mill
supply chain. A. They came and stole all the seed wheat for food.
When we tried to ship in seed wheat in containers via US donors there
was no way to get it out of the port without it being stolen
9. Livestock- Our feed business completely collapsed. Even if you
could raise a pig, you couldn't defend it from being stolen. People
with guns were hungry.
10. Employees- In the end my highly skilled team alone with other
highly educated people chose to leave. Cargill often found jobs for
them in other Latin countries. The regime was more than happy to
see the well-educated leave the country. Setting these employees up
with high quality stable jobs after fleeing remains one of the best
things I ever did in my career. "

Maduro is arguable evil, he is certainly a bad man. But that is not the point. I refer you to this - https://www.stuff.co.nz/world-news/360921564/world-governed-power-trump-aides-stunning-claim-seizing-greenland
That is what is going on - who is more "bad" Trump or Maduro?
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