• New PGP signing key for news.groups.proposals

    From Usenet Big-8 Management Board@board@big-8.org to news.groups.proposals on Fri Oct 24 11:26:15 2025
    From Newsgroup: news.groups.proposals


    The NGP moderation team will shortly be upgrading the PGP signing key
    for news.groups.proposals. The current signing key is a 1024-bit DSA key created in 2006, which is now considered weak. It will be replaced with
    a 2048-bit RSA key that has been signed with the current key.

    The upgrade is planned for 24th November 2025, i.e. in one month's time.

    If anyone other than us is verifying posts to this group to check for forgeries, please be aware that you will need to update your
    configuration accordingly.

    The new public key is included at the end of this message, and is also available from:
    - The PGP keyserver at pgp.mit.edu
    - The Big 8 Management Board wiki at
    https://www.big-8.org/wiki/Signing_key_for_news.groups.proposals

    The email address ngp-approval-key (at) ngp.big-8.org will auto-respond
    with the current key until the changeover happens, and will thereafter
    respond with the new key.

    Regards,
    Big-8 Management Board

    New PGP public key follows:

    -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----

    mQENBGheprsBCADl9nLzq0NGQ7Wj0F+Q1j0CNj3/ms2g0ey8iLW5VFFguv+iB9S/ 4SdmeeKhaIBpax1AJpeduBBb5kZdyaSwTH4hJAXjSD3YuPrq2ZJTArlcVvQm9Ih4 6kBZW1jGcpyW7LuO8o+sF+/cBc/YDDP5QAZztnBjFKWfyZW5mxO7lN18pIiEEwuX X4YZGXdl77urnr8yUFEasjTjl9CdZmeYU6gL482UIYdg0DQFSDBrqvIkT92dvQHq YUBORMTjEOo8hN+LbbweJOyiBlT5yzya5wOKGEIVXc2aNt97UT+nhXOWJ6JrlC0o FdoW9Rbwrz6YkNmRwsZP0N2x+Em0oV8ZyYFjABEBAAG0MU5HUCBBcHByb3ZhbCBL ZXkgPG5ncC1hcHByb3ZhbC1rZXlAbmdwLmJpZy04Lm9yZz6JAUEEEwECACsCGwMF CQPCZwAGCwkIBwMCBhUIAgkKCwQWAgMBAh4BAheABQJoXqlnAhkBAAoJEDInJ9OR nYCUMu4IANi400DiPmWsbZN7iDlS/fgCttrN312TWehpOLbRUg01LNc5I6/jUyLq e5qBAtG/xu0tZCiGYohCnImompWPqCV41l5mUZBzaseJmwHL+GzeG7KoQ0Afo3om OOAePm+c0emGeh2gbS0QgmZvOfoDCsxePiYHz23ZY8l0BcGNoQRJCoThPh2pVneO yQN0w56LwUsAepQy9aDFsIsx2AqswjcXQQaUJqAqwWishkwsAskgAyl+JS0z+WLh rugsxnH3DO5kPhH9HQk2jHPLwoj9xkfWYiKavRnCN8jqhpu7WbAAMWbdCry/lk7T y1R2PsruxyN89qOPgJlBp5FOfxQIezOIRgQQEQIABgUCaF6rCgAKCRCs+RBu6T2F 28/cAKCDm2bRHmQdyvFqbtBnQgf8jRsrPQCg4HGZNcegQ9kTWhlFUbY81FgxgWS0 LU5HUCBBcHByb3ZhbCBLZXkgPG5ncC1hcHByb3ZhbC1rZXlAYmlnLTgub3JnPokB PgQTAQIAKAUCaF6nPAIbAwUJA8JnAAYLCQgHAwIGFQgCCQoLBBYCAwECHgECF4AA CgkQMicn05GdgJSrwwf+N+P/Ft5UJHgGYs4UGJNh+MRG4ApOklwtu3ngWrwmijAK bT8hsmcd3IvPa74a13UMBhPK0nfbZoulwlyWiZQe/gvkg0uWFanpCsyWLI6ecrKk 7jGVq63xiCjjDqbhLqUlSrAlHLSV+RUhOjc6ia8OKWiSqRT+uZAw15/zU20tcLld YWwprJZ7G/VSuGkToESAZEzWTD5+CwWWbbPQrpdqwwKzPjAOUcfsKf5iU5wtHIgw i8iKDkxtAcN5+WEoHNTYNsoisn/1jfOf0EOJfdMn9CwQTdme9lomKCxXwTd7TuDZ TrwC3ajWXUoWFe+dZGvfUapdXr0TFQJclyLIOncSmYhGBBARAgAGBQJoXqsKAAoJ EKz5EG7pPYXbAPkAoKxWuexgTqe0Ix/mwS21wJSAk+ohAJ9YMrbMXULAiWfL1Lch WxwZC7s8ErkBDQRoXqa7AQgAyuJczmSDAID3nNM0NZqPoKsfZ2OPm3jLzg03liY1 hGjmEL957bnjRFgXc+L8dMmTASDKb6ZGupRg0OKmoeXbcgn3PN2wz466SWRQe2aR apd8i1gWtVkPTOyIrx/MgaiT0Hw1gVrY9o256mKKps4tTgastRw6JqhE+5CUPNll ZXbkyyeCqkPKs3oPLpUy3U4KPZX2RTAE0JXRGwbeaD1VK1u8xityEHAjvvbuKlLn rOYzodo4BnZnr0BXcVaMNoQLq1jGzMns+zwBHeI8YiYUX1llWGstijLHiRiA33Gi WnraDzuPXn1mNJPBmaljiG6yxDH90ouvymfy55+mzs3bgQARAQABiQElBBgBAgAP BQJoXqa7AhsMBQkDwmcAAAoJEDInJ9ORnYCUVxoIAN2PGCJFLZ2AjCv/16YqbvZx x2LIo2AccUZrAafYZbB/kmjYFBu15MfgwbXTEjEHu0Kl6B5lWUg908tlLGs8kX8M tKNXOsgx3+LPPBNjvPf3Plr/jYmdJX68mKGDETEnaoOSg7K7ELXdh4WwmKKZILzz sWaH90kJaG2ocg0SIha607zBKwOInJZTuKu5uNg30D0AIY8tk0jahXRAgjHPyZSY t15PivN6P+ea2cXgKRxe6nI167KKLHdaN6MHRtAF5nklN4Vhtn0GpOfN+cWsTzh7 UbM3FkvWOLfEuMlCv6m3t8GYNhWjhKIj3l+taS0kfDCTrlTb5GSr2HQVB/QYPFk=
    =e8qL
    -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From =?UTF-8?Q?Julien_=C3=89LIE?=@iulius@nom-de-mon-site.com.invalid to news.groups.proposals on Sat Oct 25 11:37:26 2025
    From Newsgroup: news.groups.proposals

    Hi,

    The NGP moderation team will shortly be upgrading the PGP signing key
    for news.groups.proposals. The current signing key is a 1024-bit DSA key created in 2006, which is now considered weak. It will be replaced with
    a 2048-bit RSA key that has been signed with the current key.

    The upgrade is planned for 24th November 2025, i.e. in one month's time.

    Wouldn't it be better to use a 3072-bit RSA key nowadays?
    As the rationale for the change is security weakness, a 3072-bit key
    will last a bit longer. 2048-bit RSA keys are expected to be weak near
    2030 according to NIST SP 800-57 Part 1 Rev. 5 publication released in
    2020. See table 4, page 59, about security strength at:

    https://nvlpubs.nist.gov/nistpubs/SpecialPublications/NIST.SP.800-57pt1r5.pdf

    Naturally, the Board can go on with a 2048-bit key now and generate a
    new key in 2030 :)
    --
    Julien |eLIE

    -2-aFarpaitement-a!-a-+ (Ob|-lix)

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  • From Marco Moock@mm@dorfdsl.de to news.groups.proposals on Sat Oct 25 14:26:50 2025
    From Newsgroup: news.groups.proposals

    On 25.10.2025 11:37 Uhr Julien +LIE wrote:
    Wouldn't it be better to use a 3072-bit RSA key nowadays? As the
    rationale for the change is security weakness, a 3072-bit key will
    last a bit longer. 2048-bit RSA keys are expected to be weak near 2030 according to NIST SP 800-57 Part 1 Rev. 5 publication released in
    2020. See table 4, page 59, about security strength at:
    Is there any reason not to use rsa4096?
    IIRC this is the default in gpg2, as my key is using it and I didn't
    remember specifying additional options.
    Although, I noticed that I have a key for the NoCeM messages that is
    3072. I can't remember why.
    --
    kind regards Marco
    Send spam to 1761385046muell@stinkedores.dorfdsl.de
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  • From Richard Kettlewell@invalid@invalid.invalid to news.groups.proposals on Sun Oct 26 05:04:45 2025
    From Newsgroup: news.groups.proposals

    Julien |eLIE <iulius@nom-de-mon-site.com.invalid> writes:
    The NGP moderation team will shortly be upgrading the PGP signing key
    for news.groups.proposals. The current signing key is a 1024-bit DSA key
    created in 2006, which is now considered weak. It will be replaced with
    a 2048-bit RSA key that has been signed with the current key.
    The upgrade is planned for 24th November 2025, i.e. in one month's
    time.

    Wouldn't it be better to use a 3072-bit RSA key nowadays?
    As the rationale for the change is security weakness, a 3072-bit key
    will last a bit longer. 2048-bit RSA keys are expected to be weak
    near 2030 according to NIST SP 800-57 Part 1 Rev. 5 publication
    released in 2020. See table 4, page 59, about security strength at:
    https://nvlpubs.nist.gov/nistpubs/SpecialPublications/NIST.SP.800-57pt1r5.pdf

    [1] estimates breaking RSA-1024 in a year to cost around $10M per key,
    in 2003, on a hypothetical special-purpose hardware costing $20M.
    RSA-2048 would take at least 2^30 times as long[2], and presumably
    require an even bigger up-front investment.

    Assuming the cost of compute halves every year; disregarding inflation;
    and ignoring the up-front cost, I think the worst case (or best case,
    for attackers) is that the cost of breaking RSA-2048 in a year could be
    a few million dollars per key some time in the 2030s.

    Personally I doubt the ability to forge Usenet control messages is worth millions of dollars to anyone.

    Quantum computers are expected to make it substantially cheaper at some currently unpredictable point (although again, presumably with a large
    up-front investment before being able to crack individual keys at more realistic per-key costs).

    [1] https://cs-people.bu.edu/tromer/papers/cbtwirl.pdf
    [2] https://www.ams.org/notices/199612/pomerance.pdf p1482
    --
    https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/

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  • From =?UTF-8?Q?Julien_=C3=89LIE?=@iulius@nom-de-mon-site.com.invalid to news.groups.proposals on Sun Oct 26 10:08:34 2025
    From Newsgroup: news.groups.proposals

    Hi Marco,

    Wouldn't it be better to use a 3072-bit RSA key nowadays? As the
    rationale for the change is security weakness, a 3072-bit key will
    last a bit longer. 2048-bit RSA keys are expected to be weak near 2030
    according to NIST SP 800-57 Part 1 Rev. 5 publication released in
    2020. See table 4, page 59, about security strength at:

    Is there any reason not to use rsa4096?

    A 4096-bit RSA key could also be used. The downside is it will be
    slower to sign and verify but I think we don't mind much for its use case.
    --
    Julien |eLIE

    -2-aLes femmes pardonnent parfois |a celui qui brusque l'occasion, mais
    jamais |a celui qui la manque.-a-+ (Talleyrand)

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  • From Rayner Lucas@usenet202101@magic-cookie.co.ukNOSPAMPLEASE to news.groups.proposals on Wed Oct 29 12:54:27 2025
    From Newsgroup: news.groups.proposals

    In article <mm3hciF77qbU1@mid.individual.net>, iulius@nom-de-mon- site.com.invalid says...

    Hi,

    The NGP moderation team will shortly be upgrading the PGP signing key
    for news.groups.proposals. The current signing key is a 1024-bit DSA key created in 2006, which is now considered weak. It will be replaced with
    a 2048-bit RSA key that has been signed with the current key.

    The upgrade is planned for 24th November 2025, i.e. in one month's time.

    Wouldn't it be better to use a 3072-bit RSA key nowadays?
    As the rationale for the change is security weakness, a 3072-bit key
    will last a bit longer. 2048-bit RSA keys are expected to be weak near
    2030 according to NIST SP 800-57 Part 1 Rev. 5 publication released in
    2020. See table 4, page 59, about security strength at:

    https://nvlpubs.nist.gov/nistpubs/SpecialPublications/NIST.SP.800-57pt1r5.pdf

    Naturally, the Board can go on with a 2048-bit key now and generate a
    new key in 2030 :)

    Hi Julien,

    You're right, a bigger key would be more secure and last longer.
    However, since I already made the announcement, it's probably less
    confusing to continue with the upgrade as announced, and upgrade the key
    again later when it becomes necessary.

    NGP is also not, I suspect, a high-value target :) Being able to forge a signed posting to the group won't compromise national security or make
    money for anyone, so I doubt there are adversaries willing to throw huge amounts of computing resources at cracking the group approval key. I
    don't think we even have any particularly motivated kooks these days...

    Kind regards,
    Rayner

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Rayner Lucas@usenet202101@magic-cookie.co.ukNOSPAMPLEASE to news.groups.proposals on Wed Oct 29 14:10:04 2025
    From Newsgroup: news.groups.proposals

    In article <wwvplaau2ky.fsf@LkoBDZeT.terraraq.uk>,
    invalid@invalid.invalid says...

    Personally I doubt the ability to forge Usenet control messages is worth millions of dollars to anyone.

    Even if someone did crack the key, it wouldn't let them do much except
    briefly disrupt this group. All we use the key for is to confirm that
    posts to NGP were properly approved by a moderator, so that we (or
    anybody else who wants to) can detect if someone tries to forge approved
    posts to the group.

    The Board doesn't issue any control messages directly, it only asks the
    ISC to issue rmgroup and newgroup messages based on the outcome of
    discussions in this group. The control messages are sent with human
    oversight, and only with prior public discussion.

    So if someone compromised the key and was determined to use it to bypass
    the usual process for adding or removing a group, they'd have to forge a
    whole weeks-long discussion without the Board, the ISC, or the readers
    of NGP noticing anything amiss. This seems like a lot of work for a very
    slim chance of doing something that, as you say, isn't going to be worth anything close to the likely cost of doing it.

    Kind regards,
    Rayner

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  • From =?UTF-8?Q?Julien_=C3=89LIE?=@iulius@nom-de-mon-site.com.invalid to news.groups.proposals on Wed Oct 29 17:16:40 2025
    From Newsgroup: news.groups.proposals

    Hi Rayner,

    Even if someone did crack the key, it wouldn't let them do much except briefly disrupt this group. All we use the key for is to confirm that
    posts to NGP were properly approved by a moderator, so that we (or
    anybody else who wants to) can detect if someone tries to forge approved posts to the group.

    Incidentally, if a post is forged in this newsgroup, will a cancel
    article or a NoCeM notice be sent automatically?
    As they contain an X-Auth header field mentioning PGPMoose, maybe it is
    the case. Is the group monitored by Tim's bot? (I don't recall having
    seen any NoCeM article from his bot since a long time; maybe there had
    not been any forgery for ages? or the bot is no longer active?)

    I could try to see :-)


    This seems like a lot of work for a very
    slim chance of doing something that, as you say, isn't going to be worth anything close to the likely cost of doing it.

    I also think so.
    --
    Julien |eLIE

    -2-aAut bibas aut abeas.-a-+

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  • From =?UTF-8?Q?Julien_=C3=89LIE?=@iulius@nom-de-mon-site.com.invalid to news.groups.proposals on Wed Oct 29 17:17:12 2025
    From Newsgroup: news.groups.proposals

    Hi Rayner,

    You're right, a bigger key would be more secure and last longer.
    However, since I already made the announcement, it's probably less
    confusing to continue with the upgrade as announced, and upgrade the key again later when it becomes necessary.

    No problem, I totally understand.
    Thanks for your response.


    NGP is also not, I suspect, a high-value target :) Being able to forge a signed posting to the group won't compromise national security or make
    money for anyone, so I doubt there are adversaries willing to throw huge amounts of computing resources at cracking the group approval key. I
    don't think we even have any particularly motivated kooks these days...
    So true!
    --
    Julien |eLIE

    -2-aNous avons |-t|- captur|-s par deux Goths sup|-rieurs en nombre qui nous
    ont pris nos v|-tements.-a-+ (Ast|-rix)

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  • From Rayner Lucas@usenet202101@magic-cookie.co.ukNOSPAMPLEASE to news.groups.proposals on Wed Oct 29 19:36:56 2025
    From Newsgroup: news.groups.proposals

    In article <mmfdh6F7n0lU1@mid.individual.net>, iulius@nom-de-mon- site.com.invalid says...

    Incidentally, if a post is forged in this newsgroup, will a cancel
    article or a NoCeM notice be sent automatically?
    As they contain an X-Auth header field mentioning PGPMoose, maybe it is
    the case. Is the group monitored by Tim's bot? (I don't recall having
    seen any NoCeM article from his bot since a long time; maybe there had
    not been any forgery for ages? or the bot is no longer active?)

    The Board is using PGPMoose to detect forged posts, but it is not
    configured to send cancels or NoCeMs automatically.

    I'm not sure if Tim's bot is still active or monitoring this group, but
    I've just sent him a email to make sure he knows of the planned change.

    Thanks and regards,
    Rayner

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Rayner Lucas@usenet202101@magic-cookie.co.ukNOSPAMPLEASE to news.groups.proposals on Thu Nov 20 20:58:17 2025
    From Newsgroup: news.groups.proposals

    In article <MPG.436cb5457873acd0989700@news.eternal-september.org>, usenet202101@magic-cookie.co.ukNOSPAMPLEASE says...

    In article <mmfdh6F7n0lU1@mid.individual.net>, iulius@nom-de-mon- site.com.invalid says...

    Is the group monitored by Tim's bot? (I don't recall having
    seen any NoCeM article from his bot since a long time; maybe there had
    not been any forgery for ages? or the bot is no longer active?)

    I'm not sure if Tim's bot is still active or monitoring this group, but
    I've just sent him a email to make sure he knows of the planned change.

    Tim has confirmed that his bot no longer monitors this group.

    Rayner

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Usenet Big-8 Management Board@board@big-8.org to news.groups.proposals on Thu Nov 20 20:58:40 2025
    From Newsgroup: news.groups.proposals

    In article <MPG.4365aa2540bf99449896fd@news.eternal-september.org>, board@big-8.org says...

    The NGP moderation team will shortly be upgrading the PGP signing key
    for news.groups.proposals. The current signing key is a 1024-bit DSA key created in 2006, which is now considered weak. It will be replaced with
    a 2048-bit RSA key that has been signed with the current key.

    The upgrade is planned for 24th November 2025, i.e. in one month's time.

    A reminder that the PGP signing key for this group is scheduled to
    change on 24th November (Monday).

    This is only important if you're verifying posts to NGP to check for
    forged approvals; most readers of the group will have no reason to
    notice or care.

    The new public key is available from:
    - The first post in this thread
    - The PGP keyserver at pgp.mit.edu
    - The Big 8 Management Board wiki at
    https://www.big-8.org/wiki/Signing_key_for_news.groups.proposals

    The email address ngp-approval-key (at) ngp.big-8.org will auto-respond
    with the current key until the changeover happens, and will thereafter
    respond with the new key.

    Regards,
    Big-8 Management Board

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Usenet Big-8 Management Board@board@big-8.org to news.groups.proposals on Tue Nov 25 20:51:35 2025
    From Newsgroup: news.groups.proposals

    In article <MPG.4389d5f4510722d8989705@news.eternal-september.org>, board@big-8.org says...

    A reminder that the PGP signing key for this group is scheduled to
    change on 24th November (Monday).

    This is only important if you're verifying posts to NGP to check for
    forged approvals; most readers of the group will have no reason to
    notice or care.

    The new public key is available from:
    - The first post in this thread
    - The PGP keyserver at pgp.mit.edu
    - The Big 8 Management Board wiki at
    https://www.big-8.org/wiki/Signing_key_for_news.groups.proposals

    The email address ngp-approval-key (at) ngp.big-8.org will auto-respond
    with the current key until the changeover happens, and will thereafter respond with the new key.

    The PGP key upgrade took place as planned. This article should be signed
    with the new key, assuming I haven't messed something up.

    Regards,
    Big-8 Management Board
    --
    Usenet Big-8 Management Board
    https://www.big-8.org/
    board@big-8.org

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