| Sysop: | Amessyroom |
|---|---|
| Location: | Fayetteville, NC |
| Users: | 27 |
| Nodes: | 6 (0 / 6) |
| Uptime: | 38:44:07 |
| Calls: | 631 |
| Calls today: | 2 |
| Files: | 1,187 |
| D/L today: |
23 files (29,781K bytes) |
| Messages: | 174,060 |
wrote:
Follow-up to <https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=3D287719#=
Good news.
2048 MB is sufficient with root-on-ZFS for an ordinary installation
(more than base, less than all of FreeBSD-base) of 15.0-ALPHA4
plus these five non-base packages, some of which are meta:
kde plasma6-sddm-kcm sddm virtualbox-guest-additions xorg
Beyond initial installations: with 4 G swap enabled, I repeatedly
tested forced reinstallation of all packages,
pkg upgrade -fUy
1077 packages, 1886 steps. Success.
----
With swap disabled, which I would not recommend:
- reinstallation failed, switch from ttyv1 to ttyv2 was
impossible, and so on, so I attempted a shut down
<https://i.imgur.com/RftLGMu.png>
- shut down failed
- following a forced stop of the computer, SDDM and the
desktop environment were unsable (pkg issue 2441,
second incident this morning).
On Sun, Sep 28, 2025, 4:47rC>AM Graham Perrin <grahamperrin@gmail.com> wrote:
Follow-up to <https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=287719#c6> >>
Good news.
2048 MB is sufficient with root-on-ZFS for an ordinary installation
(more than base, less than all of FreeBSD-base) of 15.0-ALPHA4
plus these five non-base packages, some of which are meta:
kde plasma6-sddm-kcm sddm virtualbox-guest-additions xorg
Beyond initial installations: with 4 G swap enabled, I repeatedly
tested forced reinstallation of all packages,
pkg upgrade -fUy
1077 packages, 1886 steps. Success.
----
With swap disabled, which I would not recommend:
- reinstallation failed, switch from ttyv1 to ttyv2 was
impossible, and so on, so I attempted a shut down
<https://i.imgur.com/RftLGMu.png>
- shut down failed
- following a forced stop of the computer, SDDM and the
desktop environment were unsable (pkg issue 2441,
second incident this morning).
It's big enough to install.. but i have lxte + terminal + firefox with 4 tabs open and I routinely run out of memory and swap heavily. I have a 4GB Chromebook.Just a wild guess, but I suspect ZFS might be eating your memory.
So one can run in 128MB for light tasks and careful kernel tuning, 512MB is a more realistic minimum since it lets you install and update. But for X it's flipped: you need 2G to install but closer to 4G or 8G to run a complete, but on the lean side, X11 system.--
Warner
wrote:e:
On Sun, Sep 28, 2025 at 7:59=E2=80=AFAM Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrot=
.com>On Sun, Sep 28, 2025, 4:47=E2=80=AFAM Graham Perrin <grahamperrin@gmail=
wrote:
Follow-up to < https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=3D287719#c6>
Good news.
2048 MB is sufficient with root-on-ZFS for an ordinary installation
(more than base, less than all of FreeBSD-base) of 15.0-ALPHA4
plus these five non-base packages, some of which are meta:
kde plasma6-sddm-kcm sddm virtualbox-guest-additions xorg
Beyond initial installations: with 4 G swap enabled, I repeatedly
tested forced reinstallation of all packages,
pkg upgrade -fUy
1077 packages, 1886 steps. Success.
----
With swap disabled, which I would not recommend:
- reinstallation failed, switch from ttyv1 to ttyv2 was
impossible, and so on, so I attempted a shut down
<https://i.imgur.com/RftLGMu.png>
- shut down failed
- following a forced stop of the computer, SDDM and the
desktop environment were unsable (pkg issue 2441,
second incident this morning).
4It's big enough to install.. but i have lxte + terminal + firefox with =
tabs open and I routinely run out of memory and swap heavily. I have a 4G=B
Chromebook.
Just a wild guess, but I suspect ZFS might be eating your memory.
You could try something like setting:
vfs.zfs.arc.max to half of your ram and see what happens?
You probably don't want to do this, but it would be interesting to
see what happens if you use UFS.
(Personally, I'd never use ZFS for a root fs, but that's just me.)
rick
BSo one can run in 128MB for light tasks and careful kernel tuning, 512M=
is a more realistic minimum since it lets you install and update. But for=X
it's flipped: you need 2G to install but closer to 4G or 8G to run a complete, but on the lean side, X11 system.
Warner
wrote:e:
On Sun, Sep 28, 2025 at 7:59=E2=80=AFAM Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrot=
.com>On Sun, Sep 28, 2025, 4:47=E2=80=AFAM Graham Perrin <grahamperrin@gmail=
wrote:
Follow-up to < https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=3D287719#c6>
Good news.
2048 MB is sufficient with root-on-ZFS for an ordinary installation
(more than base, less than all of FreeBSD-base) of 15.0-ALPHA4
plus these five non-base packages, some of which are meta:
kde plasma6-sddm-kcm sddm virtualbox-guest-additions xorg
Beyond initial installations: with 4 G swap enabled, I repeatedly
tested forced reinstallation of all packages,
pkg upgrade -fUy
1077 packages, 1886 steps. Success.
----
With swap disabled, which I would not recommend:
- reinstallation failed, switch from ttyv1 to ttyv2 was
impossible, and so on, so I attempted a shut down
<https://i.imgur.com/RftLGMu.png>
- shut down failed
- following a forced stop of the computer, SDDM and the
desktop environment were unsable (pkg issue 2441,
second incident this morning).
4It's big enough to install.. but i have lxte + terminal + firefox with =
tabs open and I routinely run out of memory and swap heavily. I have a 4G=B
Chromebook.
Just a wild guess, but I suspect ZFS might be eating your memory.
You could try something like setting:
vfs.zfs.arc.max to half of your ram and see what happens?
You probably don't want to do this, but it would be interesting to
see what happens if you use UFS.
(Personally, I'd never use ZFS for a root fs, but that's just me.)
rick
BSo one can run in 128MB for light tasks and careful kernel tuning, 512M=
is a more realistic minimum since it lets you install and update. But for=X
it's flipped: you need 2G to install but closer to 4G or 8G to run a complete, but on the lean side, X11 system.
Warner
wrote:a
FWIW my understanding is that ZFS root is such a memory hog that anything under 16GB is disrecommended and 32GB preferable. (I have only one
machine that fits that constraint, and FreeBSD doesn't quite work on it
yet.)
On Tue, Sep 30, 2025 at 3:38=E2=80=AFPM Rick Macklem <rick.macklem@gmail.=
wrote:
On Sun, Sep 28, 2025 at 7:59=E2=80=AFAM Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wro= te:
wrote:
On Sun, Sep 28, 2025, 4:47=E2=80=AFAM Graham Perrin <grahamperrin@gmai= l.com>
https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=3D287719#c6>
Follow-up to <
4 tabs open and I routinely run out of memory and swap heavily. I have a
Good news.
2048 MB is sufficient with root-on-ZFS for an ordinary installation
(more than base, less than all of FreeBSD-base) of 15.0-ALPHA4
plus these five non-base packages, some of which are meta:
kde plasma6-sddm-kcm sddm virtualbox-guest-additions xorg
Beyond initial installations: with 4 G swap enabled, I repeatedly
tested forced reinstallation of all packages,
pkg upgrade -fUy
1077 packages, 1886 steps. Success.
----
With swap disabled, which I would not recommend:
- reinstallation failed, switch from ttyv1 to ttyv2 was
impossible, and so on, so I attempted a shut down
<https://i.imgur.com/RftLGMu.png>
- shut down failed
- following a forced stop of the computer, SDDM and the
desktop environment were unsable (pkg issue 2441,
second incident this morning).
It's big enough to install.. but i have lxte + terminal + firefox with
4GB Chromebook.
Just a wild guess, but I suspect ZFS might be eating your memory.
You could try something like setting:
vfs.zfs.arc.max to half of your ram and see what happens?
You probably don't want to do this, but it would be interesting to
see what happens if you use UFS.
(Personally, I'd never use ZFS for a root fs, but that's just me.)
rick
512MB is a more realistic minimum since it lets you install and update. = But
So one can run in 128MB for light tasks and careful kernel tuning,
for X it's flipped: you need 2G to install but closer to 4G or 8G to run=
complete, but on the lean side, X11 system.
Warner
--
brandon s allbery kf8nh
allbery.b@gmail.com
Yea, I've not seen that to be the case. ZFS isn't that big of a memory hog these days... There are times you do need to tune the arc, but they are the exception, not the rule.Unfortunately, using ZFS as an NFS server seems to be an exception.
Warner--
On Tue, Sep 30, 2025 at 1:41rC>PM Brandon Allbery <allbery.b@gmail.com> wrote:
FWIW my understanding is that ZFS root is such a memory hog that anything under 16GB is disrecommended and 32GB preferable. (I have only one machine that fits that constraint, and FreeBSD doesn't quite work on it yet.)
On Tue, Sep 30, 2025 at 3:38rC>PM Rick Macklem <rick.macklem@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sun, Sep 28, 2025 at 7:59rC>AM Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote:
Just a wild guess, but I suspect ZFS might be eating your memory.
On Sun, Sep 28, 2025, 4:47rC>AM Graham Perrin <grahamperrin@gmail.com> wrote:
Follow-up to <https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=287719#c6>
Good news.
2048 MB is sufficient with root-on-ZFS for an ordinary installation
(more than base, less than all of FreeBSD-base) of 15.0-ALPHA4
plus these five non-base packages, some of which are meta:
kde plasma6-sddm-kcm sddm virtualbox-guest-additions xorg
Beyond initial installations: with 4 G swap enabled, I repeatedly
tested forced reinstallation of all packages,
pkg upgrade -fUy
1077 packages, 1886 steps. Success.
----
With swap disabled, which I would not recommend:
- reinstallation failed, switch from ttyv1 to ttyv2 was
impossible, and so on, so I attempted a shut down
<https://i.imgur.com/RftLGMu.png>
- shut down failed
- following a forced stop of the computer, SDDM and the
desktop environment were unsable (pkg issue 2441,
second incident this morning).
It's big enough to install.. but i have lxte + terminal + firefox with 4 tabs open and I routinely run out of memory and swap heavily. I have a 4GB Chromebook.
You could try something like setting:
vfs.zfs.arc.max to half of your ram and see what happens?
You probably don't want to do this, but it would be interesting to
see what happens if you use UFS.
(Personally, I'd never use ZFS for a root fs, but that's just me.)
rick
So one can run in 128MB for light tasks and careful kernel tuning, 512MB is a more realistic minimum since it lets you install and update. But for X it's flipped: you need 2G to install but closer to 4G or 8G to run a complete, but on the lean side, X11 system.
Warner
--
brandon s allbery kf8nh
allbery.b@gmail.com
wrote:te:
On Tue, Sep 30, 2025 at 12:50=E2=80=AFPM Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wro=
reYea, I've not seen that to be the case. ZFS isn't that big of a memoryhog these days... There are times you do need to tune the arc, but they a=
the exception, not the rule.tml
Unfortunately, using ZFS as an NFS server seems to be an exception.
Peter Errikson still uses 13.5 on his servers, since he doesn't find 14.n stable enough.
There is this email thread:
https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-stable/2025-September/003126.h=
I'd like to see this resolved, but I don't know enough about VM or
ZFS's arc code
and I have miniscule hardware, so I cannot replicate it.
Btw, what is a BE?
rick
l.com>Warner
On Tue, Sep 30, 2025 at 1:41=E2=80=AFPM Brandon Allbery <allbery.b@gmai=
wrote:ne
anything under 16GB is disrecommended and 32GB preferable. (I have only o=
FWIW my understanding is that ZFS root is such a memory hog that
machine that fits that constraint, and FreeBSD doesn't quite work on itil.com>
yet.)
On Tue, Sep 30, 2025 at 3:38=E2=80=AFPM Rick Macklem <rick.macklem@gma=
wrote:wrote:
On Sun, Sep 28, 2025 at 7:59=E2=80=AFAM Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> =
mail.com>
On Sun, Sep 28, 2025, 4:47=E2=80=AFAM Graham Perrin <grahamperrin@g=
wrote:n
Follow-up to < https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=3D287719#c6>
Good news.
2048 MB is sufficient with root-on-ZFS for an ordinary installatio=
vewith 4 tabs open and I routinely run out of memory and swap heavily. I ha=(more than base, less than all of FreeBSD-base) of 15.0-ALPHA4
plus these five non-base packages, some of which are meta:
kde plasma6-sddm-kcm sddm virtualbox-guest-additions xorg
Beyond initial installations: with 4 G swap enabled, I repeatedly
tested forced reinstallation of all packages,
pkg upgrade -fUy
1077 packages, 1886 steps. Success.
----
With swap disabled, which I would not recommend:
- reinstallation failed, switch from ttyv1 to ttyv2 was
impossible, and so on, so I attempted a shut down
<https://i.imgur.com/RftLGMu.png>
- shut down failed
- following a forced stop of the computer, SDDM and the
desktop environment were unsable (pkg issue 2441,
second incident this morning).
It's big enough to install.. but i have lxte + terminal + firefox
a 4GB Chromebook.ut
Just a wild guess, but I suspect ZFS might be eating your memory.
You could try something like setting:
vfs.zfs.arc.max to half of your ram and see what happens?
You probably don't want to do this, but it would be interesting to
see what happens if you use UFS.
(Personally, I'd never use ZFS for a root fs, but that's just me.)
rick
So one can run in 128MB for light tasks and careful kernel tuning, 512MB is a more realistic minimum since it lets you install and update. B=
for X it's flipped: you need 2G to install but closer to 4G or 8G to run =a
complete, but on the lean side, X11 system.
Warner
--
brandon s allbery kf8nh
allbery.b@gmail.com
On Tue, Sep 30, 2025 at 2:03rC>PM Rick Macklem <rick.macklem@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Sep 30, 2025 at 12:50rC>PM Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote:
Unfortunately, using ZFS as an NFS server seems to be an exception.
Yea, I've not seen that to be the case. ZFS isn't that big of a memory hog these days... There are times you do need to tune the arc, but they are the exception, not the rule.
Peter Errikson still uses 13.5 on his servers, since he doesn't find 14.n
stable enough.
There is this email thread:
https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-stable/2025-September/003126.html
OK. Since I no longer do NFS, I've not hit that....I didn't figure you had hit it.
I'd like to see this resolved, but I don't know enough about VM or
ZFS's arc code
and I have miniscule hardware, so I cannot replicate it.
Btw, what is a BE?
BE is a boot environment. It's basically a way to switch between different versions of the system quickly and easily, as well as offline update the system so you don't shoot yourself in the foot by removing libc.so... Great for both development and deployment. Worth paying the small extra memory tax I do see with ZFS.--
Warner
rick
Warner
On Tue, Sep 30, 2025 at 1:41rC>PM Brandon Allbery <allbery.b@gmail.com> wrote:
FWIW my understanding is that ZFS root is such a memory hog that anything under 16GB is disrecommended and 32GB preferable. (I have only one machine that fits that constraint, and FreeBSD doesn't quite work on it yet.)
On Tue, Sep 30, 2025 at 3:38rC>PM Rick Macklem <rick.macklem@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sun, Sep 28, 2025 at 7:59rC>AM Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> wrote:
Just a wild guess, but I suspect ZFS might be eating your memory.
On Sun, Sep 28, 2025, 4:47rC>AM Graham Perrin <grahamperrin@gmail.com> wrote:
Follow-up to <https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=287719#c6>
Good news.
2048 MB is sufficient with root-on-ZFS for an ordinary installation >> >>> >> (more than base, less than all of FreeBSD-base) of 15.0-ALPHA4
plus these five non-base packages, some of which are meta:
kde plasma6-sddm-kcm sddm virtualbox-guest-additions xorg
Beyond initial installations: with 4 G swap enabled, I repeatedly
tested forced reinstallation of all packages,
pkg upgrade -fUy
1077 packages, 1886 steps. Success.
----
With swap disabled, which I would not recommend:
- reinstallation failed, switch from ttyv1 to ttyv2 was
impossible, and so on, so I attempted a shut down
<https://i.imgur.com/RftLGMu.png>
- shut down failed
- following a forced stop of the computer, SDDM and the
desktop environment were unsable (pkg issue 2441,
second incident this morning).
It's big enough to install.. but i have lxte + terminal + firefox with 4 tabs open and I routinely run out of memory and swap heavily. I have a 4GB Chromebook.
You could try something like setting:
vfs.zfs.arc.max to half of your ram and see what happens?
You probably don't want to do this, but it would be interesting to
see what happens if you use UFS.
(Personally, I'd never use ZFS for a root fs, but that's just me.)
rick
So one can run in 128MB for light tasks and careful kernel tuning, 512MB is a more realistic minimum since it lets you install and update. But for X it's flipped: you need 2G to install but closer to 4G or 8G to run a complete, but on the lean side, X11 system.
Warner
--
brandon s allbery kf8nh
allbery.b@gmail.com
FWIW my understanding is that ZFS root is such a memory hog thatThis has never been true. You can easily run FreeBSD with ZFS root on
anything under 16GB is disrecommended and 32GB preferable.
![https://i.imgur.com/RftLGMu.png"](https://i.imgur.com/RftLGMu.png"){kind=link}
