From Newsgroup: misc.phone.mobile.iphone

I just bought an iPhone 17 to replace my iPhone 14. It's been many
years since I used iTunes to transfer an image to a new phone. The
last few times I've used the phone <--> phone method.

If I do an iTunes image transfer will that transfer over *everything* including...

-- all settings (OS and apps)
-- apps (even discontinued ones)
-- FindMy sharing sessions

My recollection is transferring phone <--> phone doesn't transfer the
above.

Other than speed, what advantage is there to using the bluetooth method?
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: misc.phone.mobile.iphone

On 2/28/2026 12:39 PM, badgolferman wrote:

I just bought an iPhone 17 to replace my iPhone 14. It's been many
years since I used iTunes to transfer an image to a new phone. The
last few times I've used the phone <--> phone method.

If I do an iTunes image transfer will that transfer over *everything* including...

-- all settings (OS and apps)
-- apps (even discontinued ones)
-- FindMy sharing sessions

My recollection is transferring phone <--> phone doesn't transfer the
above.

Other than speed, what advantage is there to using the bluetooth method?

phone to phone works. I just did it from an older XS. Using iTunes will
place a selected backup on the new phone. Either way new copies of apps
are downloaded if still offered or else will not be on new phone.
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: misc.phone.mobile.iphone

badgolferman <REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> wrote:

I just bought an iPhone 17 to replace my iPhone 14. It's been many
years since I used iTunes to transfer an image to a new phone. The
last few times I've used the phone <--> phone method.

If I do an iTunes image transfer will that transfer over *everything* including...

-- all settings (OS and apps)
-- apps (even discontinued ones)
-- FindMy sharing sessions

Discontinued apps won't be transferred as the iOS method is to download
either the same version as you previously had, if available, or the latest version.

The others depend on whether the backup is an encrypted one or not.

My recollection is transferring phone <--> phone doesn't transfer the
above.

Some are and some aren't. Apps in particular are variable as Apple has
little control over that.

Other than speed, what advantage is there to using the bluetooth method?

BT is only used to set up the connection. A wifi connection does the actual transfer. BT would take days to transfer 10s of GB.


--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: misc.phone.mobile.iphone

badgolferman wrote:

Just bought an iPhone 17 to replace my iPhone 14. It's been many
years since I used iTunes to transfer an image to a new phone. The
last few times I've used the phone <--> phone method.

If I do an iTunes image transfer will that transfer over *everything* including...

-- all settings (OS and apps)
-- apps (even discontinued ones)
-- FindMy sharing sessions

My recollection is transferring phone <--> phone doesn't transfer the
above.

Other than speed, what advantage is there to using the bluetooth method?

Hi badgolferman,

The one thing I never did with an iOS device is transfer everything over
from one to another, so what I say below comes *only* from looking it up.

And it's way more complicated than I would have thought it should be.
<https://support.apple.com/en-us/108771>
A computer backup of your device, which is not the same
as a sync, includes almost all of your device's data and
settings. A backup from a computer doesn't include:
1. Content from the iTunes and App Stores, or PDFs downloaded
directly to Apple Books
2. Content synced from your Mac or PC, like imported MP3s or CDs,
videos, books, and photos
3. Data already synced and stored in iCloud, like iCloud Photos,
iMessages, and text (SMS) and multimedia (MMS) messages
4. Face ID or Touch ID settings
5. Apple Pay information and settings
6. Apple Mail data
7. Activity, Health, and Keychain data (to back up this content,
you'll need to create an encrypted backup)
8. Offline maps

Apparently, an iTunes (or Finder) encrypted backup + restore is the closest thing Apple offers to a full, everything-comes-over migration.

A phone-to-phone Quick Start transfer is excellent, but it does not bring
over every category of data in the same way. The differences matter for
exactly the items you listed

An encrypted computer backup is the only method that preserves all
settings, all keychains, and the widest range of app data. Apple's documentation confirms that encrypted backups include saved passwords,
Wi-Fi settings, website history, Health data, etc.

Always note that of all common consumer operating systems, only iOS is incapable of ever actually backing up the applications themselves, which
can only be re-downloaded from the App Store (despite nospam & JR claims
to the contrary).
a. If the app is no longer available in the App Store,
it will NOT reinstall.
b. If the app is still in the store but no longer updated,
it will reinstall.
c. If the app was removed but you previously downloaded it
and the developer still allows redownloads, it may reinstall.

Which method is best for your situation?
Since you're coming from an iPhone 14 and care about:
A. OS and app settings
B. App continuity
C. Find My sharing
D. A "just like before" setup
I suspect an encrypted iTunes/Finder backup will probably give you the most complete and predictable result, but I defer to the experts on this ng.

Quick Start is not as thorough for deep system settings and keychain items.
Let me/us know what direction you want to take this in as you have choices.
--
I volunteer to help people today & they volunteer to help me tomorrow.
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: misc.phone.mobile.iphone

Maria Sophia wrote:

Quick Start is not as thorough for deep system settings and keychain
items. Let me/us know what direction you want to take this in as you
have choices.

I ended up going with the phone to phone method. The thought of
installing iTunes and trying to operate that monstrosity gave me pause. Fortunately all apps were still current, but I lost all my Bluetooth connections and have been slowly getting those reestablished.

By the way, I asked the T-Mobile representative what my internal credit
rating was (like you suggested) and they told me they don't have such a
thing. In the end, I was given a $300 credit for my iPhone 14. They
really insist on using the T-Life app for everything. All
transactions, viewing of options, etc. was done on my own phone with
the T-life app.
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: misc.phone.mobile.iphone

badgolferman wrote:

I ended up going with the phone to phone method. The thought of
installing iTunes and trying to operate that monstrosity gave me pause. Fortunately all apps were still current, but I lost all my Bluetooth connections and have been slowly getting those reestablished.

By the way, I asked the T-Mobile representative what my internal credit rating was (like you suggested) and they told me they don't have such a thing. In the end, I was given a $300 credit for my iPhone 14. They
really insist on using the T-Life app for everything. All
transactions, viewing of options, etc. was done on my own phone with
the T-life app.

Hi badgolferman,

Thanks for letting us know what you ended up doing as I was researching
this further after my last post and I found a mistake that I made in it.

But first, I agree with your phone-to-phone method for reasons explained below. I learned something by researching that method too (see below).

I'm sorry the T-Mobile rep didn't understand, or maybe I didn't explain it well, or maybe I didn't understand it myself at first, but as I understand
it, the credit is for "free stuff" and not an actual credit of dollars.

It's the total dollar amount of liens they are willing to put on your
account for 'free stuff' that they give you, and then each month they
remove 1/24th of whatever it is they gave you until it goes to zero.

At that point, you own the "free stuff" that they gave you but which they
held a lien on you for paying it back if you didn't stay for 2 years.

And, I definitely agree with you that they're pushing that damn T-Life app like there is no tomorrow. I fought them tooth and nail not to be using it!

Anyway, as for the device-to-device method I need to clarify what I've
learned since my last post, given what happens with apps depends GREATLY on how you back ups versus device transfers (which are different, to Apple).

In iOS, "backup" & "device-to-device transfer" are not the same.
A. Backups never include the app binary (.ipa)
B. Quick Start can copy the installed app bundle from one phone to another

Quick Start does not need the App Store!
Quick Start uses a private Apple protocol.

So Quick Start works even if the app is no longer on the App Store.
It only fails if the app is too old or is no longer validly signed.

So while it's true that iOS backups never contain apps, with Quick Start, device-to-device transfers sometimes do clone a working app to the device.

a. iOS backups = data only
b. Device-to-device migration = data + apps (when possible

If Quick Start successfully migrates the app, we end up with two
independent, fully installed copies of the same app:
i. One on the old device
ii. Another on the new device

Both copies will run as long as the app remains validly signed and
compatible with the iOS version on each device.

This means it's still correct that "iOS cannot back up app binaries"
Because iOS backups never include the app binary.

However, Quick Start is not treated like a backup with Apple.
It's a direct clone of the installed app bundle.
I. App binary = the executable code
II. App bundle = the folder that contains the executable code
plus its resources (images, sounds, metadata, etc.)

In summary...
1. iCloud / Finder backup
Backups copy your stuff, not the app
2. Quick Start (device-to-device transfer)
Quick Start copies the whole app, including your stuff,
from one phone to the other.

So, in a way, you can make a backup archive using an old iOS device.
1. Put an old iOS device in a drawer, powered off.
2. When you need to make an app backup, pull it out.
3. Do a Quick Start from your current iOS device to the old iOS device.
4. Put the old iOS device back in the drawer for safekeeping.

It's a kludge. But it probably would work, don't you think?
--
On Usenet old men discuss problems they've solved over the decades.
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: misc.phone.mobile.iphone

Zaidy036 wrote:

Other than speed, what advantage is there to using the bluetooth method?

phone to phone works. I just did it from an older XS. Using iTunes will place a selected backup on the new phone. Either way new copies of apps
are downloaded if still offered or else will not be on new phone.

Hi Zaidy036,
I've mostly seen you on Windows newsgroups, not on Apple. Welcome aboard. You've helped me a lot in the past, so it's great to see you here.

The main problem with a "backup" in the Apple ecosystem, is the one thing
it does not include is the app but I just wrote a PSA that explains the
only practical way to archive the exact app subversion on your iOS device.

Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.ipad,comp.sys.mac.system
Subject: PSA: The only practical way to preserve iOS apps (IPAs, app data & sub-versions)
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2026 12:42:03 -0800
Message-ID: <10o28ar$9ga$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com>

I thank badgolferman for opening this thread as it caused me to research
how to find a trick to actually archive the exact IPA/bundle subversion.

The summary is that badgolferman can archive the exact subversions but he
has to do it to a spare unused iOS device kept securely in the desk drawer,
one for each archive, where he can then bring one of those iOS archives
over to any new device, such as to the iPhone 17.

This is the Apple way of doing things, so the caveat is that some app sub-versions will copy to the new iPhone 17 and run perfectly.

But some will copy but fail to launch.
And some will not copy at all because iOS blocks them during Quick Start.

The dividing line is iOS compatibility (which every operating system has).
--
On Usenet, the goal is simple, help the next person understand a bit more.
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: misc.phone.mobile.iphone

Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
...

Other than speed, what advantage is there to using the bluetooth method?

BT is only used to set up the connection. A wifi connection does the actual transfer. BT would take days to transfer 10s of GB.

Is wifi connection between iPhones only and not needing to connect to a
wifi router? I wonder how long it will take to copy from an old iPhone
11 Pro Max (250 GB of data) to a brand new 17 Pro Max.
--
"Whom have I in heaven but you? And earth has nothing I desire besides you. My flesh and my heart may fail, but God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever." --Psalm 73:25-26. Not a good Caturday nite due 2 colony, out(r)ages, deaths, future, etc. :(
Note: A fixed width font (Courier, Monospace, etc.) is required to see this signature correctly.
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://aqfl.net & http://antfarm.home.dhs.org.
/ /\ /\ \ Please nuke ANT if replying by e-mail.
| |o o| |
\ _ /
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From Newsgroup: misc.phone.mobile.iphone

On 3/1/2026 8:00 PM, Ant wrote:

Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
...

Other than speed, what advantage is there to using the bluetooth method?

BT is only used to set up the connection. A wifi connection does the actual >> transfer. BT would take days to transfer 10s of GB.

Is wifi connection between iPhones only and not needing to connect to a
wifi router? I wonder how long it will take to copy from an old iPhone
11 Pro Max (250 GB of data) to a brand new 17 Pro Max.

My old XS had about 130 GB data and transfer, which depends on CPU
speed, as I remember took about 1 hour.
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: misc.phone.mobile.iphone

On 3/1/2026 8:57 PM, Zaidy036 wrote:

On 3/1/2026 8:00 PM, Ant wrote:

Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
...

Other than speed, what advantage is there to using the bluetooth
method?

BT is only used to set up the connection. A wifi connection does the
actual
transfer. BT would take days to transfer 10s of GB.

Is wifi connection between iPhones only and not needing to connect to a
wifi router? I wonder how long it will take to copy from an old iPhone
11 Pro Max (250 GB of data) to a brand new 17 Pro Max.

My old XS had about 130 GB data and transfer, which depends on CPU
speed, as I remember took about 1 hour.

and remember to backup the new one when completed.
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: misc.phone.mobile.iphone

Zaidy036 wrote:

Other than speed, what advantage is there to using the bluetooth
method?

BT is only used to set up the connection. A wifi connection does the
actual
transfer. BT would take days to transfer 10s of GB.

Is wifi connection between iPhones only and not needing to connect to a
wifi router? I wonder how long it will take to copy from an old iPhone
11 Pro Max (250 GB of data) to a brand new 17 Pro Max.

My old XS had about 130 GB data and transfer, which depends on CPU
speed, as I remember took about 1 hour.

and remember to backup the new one when completed.

I am not sure if anyone really answered Ant's question, so I'll try to help
out since I care that Ant gets all the information that was asked of us.

There are many misconceptions about bluetooth in this thread, versus
what we can call a "direct" Wi-Fi link (peer to peer connection).

The transfer path during iPhone to iPhone migration works in two stages.
1. Bluetooth (only for discovery & exchange of the setup payload)
2. Peer-to-peer direct Wi-Fi (this is the actual data connection)

Bluetooth is only used for device discovery and for exchanging the small
setup payload. Once the phones recognize each other they switch to a
direct WiFi link. This does not employ your home router and it is not using your normal LAN.

It is a peer to peer WiFi connection the two phones create between
themselves. Apple calls this WiFi Direct. It behaves like a private,
short range, high bandwidth link.

The two devices choose a valid 2.4 or 5GHz channel between them.

Because the data path is WiFi Direct, not Bluetooth, the throughput is
measured in hundreds of megabits per second, not the tens of megabits
Bluetooth can manage. That is why a full-device migration is practical.

If Bluetooth carried the data it would take forever for a large phone.

How long a 250 GB transfer takes depends on two things.

First is the sustained WiFi Direct rate the two radios can hold
in the same room. Second is the read speed of the old phone and the
write speed of the new one.

In practice the radios are not the limiting factor.
The storage controllers are.

For large phones, I'm told people usually see a range from a bit under an
hour to several hours depending on how full the source phone is and how fragmented the data is.

On the points raised earlier by Chris & Zaidy outside of Ant's query...

1. Discontinued apps are not copied as binaries. The migration process
restores the app placeholders then the App Store supplies the same
version we had if Apple still hosts it or the current version if the
developer still supports it.

2. Settings that include account credentials or health data require an
encrypted backup. That is why some settings appear to move and some
do not when people use an unencrypted iTunes backup.

3. The reminder to back up the new phone is a good idea, but see my
recent PSA where one could argue that, for Apple iOS devices, the
best "archive" might be a spare iOS device saved in a drawer.
Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.mobile.ipad,comp.sys.mac.system
Subject: PSA: The only practical way to preserve iOS apps (IPAs, app data & sub-versions)
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2026 12:42:03 -0800
Message-ID: <10o28ar$9ga$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com>

Of course, the most important datum for estimating the time, is to estimate
how much of the 250 GB is actual data, rather than nominal total capacity.
--
When someone asks a question, I invest energy in helping them answer it.
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: misc.phone.mobile.iphone

Ant wrote:

Is wifi connection between iPhones only and not needing to connect to a
wifi router? I wonder how long it will take to copy from an old iPhone
11 Pro Max (250 GB of data) to a brand new 17 Pro Max.

Hi Ant,

I answered both of your questions in my response to Zaidy & Chris in this tangent, where I just looked up if Quick Start uses the same answer I gave.

It does.

Quick Start uses the same transport path as the manual iPhone to iPhone migration that you're asking about where Bluetooth only handles discovery
and the small setup payload. Once the phones agree to proceed, they switch
to a peer to peer WiFi Direct link for the actual data.

Just like with the backup, Quick Start does not use your router and it does
not join your LAN. The phones create a private 802.11 link between
themselves. It is still a real WiFi channel on the air, chosen from the
legal channels the radios support, but the phones negotiate it without involving any access point whatsoever. It's a peer-to-peer connection.

The important point is that Quick Start is not a different radio path than
what is used for the backup mechanisms that Apple promotes for iOS backup.

It is the same Bluetooth for setup then WiFi Direct for bulk data.
The only difference is the user interface that guides us through it.
The underlying transport is the same peer to peer 802.11 link end to end.

In short, both Quick Start and backup use the Bluetooth only for the
initial handshake then they move all real data over the WiFi-Direct link.
--
Some day people will appreciate all the help we've provided over the years.
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: misc.phone.mobile.iphone

Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> wrote:

Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
...

Other than speed, what advantage is there to using the bluetooth method?

BT is only used to set up the connection. A wifi connection does the actual >> transfer. BT would take days to transfer 10s of GB.

Is wifi connection between iPhones only and not needing to connect to a
wifi router?

It's a direct peer-to-peer network completely independent of any wifi
router.

I wonder how long it will take to copy from an old iPhone
11 Pro Max (250 GB of data) to a brand new 17 Pro Max.

It's pretty quick, but that amount will take an hour or two. Are you sure that's all data? Apps are not transferred, but downloaded from the app
store. That means you'll lose any apps which don't exist on the app store anymore.


--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2