• Request of badgolferman to EVALUATE recent ADULT conversations on this Apple ng

    From Marian@marianjones@helpfulpeople.com to misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.sys.mac.advocacy on Mon Dec 22 13:39:05 2025
    From Newsgroup: misc.phone.mobile.iphone

    Hi badgolferman,

    You, yourself, opined that it's possible for Chris to act like an adult on
    this newsgroup, and I agreed with you, and I started action on that task.

    In addition, you, yourself, opined that some people can't be reasoned with. Such that no adult dialogue is possible with some Apple posters here.

    Given we've both assessed that Chris possibly "can" be reasoned with...
    would you kindly LOOK at the conversations below and let me know how I'm
    doing trying to get both Tyrone & Chris to discuss their POV like an adult?

    Just as Tyrone simply called all facts wrong, Chris is pulling the same
    trick so, rather than play their game in a childish response, I brought up
    each and every one of Chris' outright denials as their own adult thread.

    From: Marian <marianjones@helpfulpeople.com>
    Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
    Subject: What does it really mean when an entity chooses iOS or Android as their main platform?
    Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2025 11:10:02 -0700
    Organization: BWH Usenet Archive (https://usenet.blueworldhosting.com) Message-ID: <10ic1hq$2ckt$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com>

    From: Marian <marianjones@helpfulpeople.com>
    Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
    Subject: What does the CISA KEV database say about Android/iOS known
    critical exploits?
    Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2025 11:20:58 -0700
    Organization: BWH Usenet Archive (https://usenet.blueworldhosting.com) Message-ID: <10ic26a$1pu9$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com>

    From: Marian <marianjones@helpfulpeople.com>
    Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
    Subject: What did Google's project zero really say about Apple never
    testing much of their iOS code?
    Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2025 11:34:16 -0700
    Organization: BWH Usenet Archive (https://usenet.blueworldhosting.com) Message-ID: <10ic2v8$307u$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com>

    From: Marian <marianjones@helpfulpeople.com>
    Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
    Subject: What are the merits of the claim that iOS is "way more secure"?
    Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2025 12:15:53 -0700
    Organization: BWH Usenet Archive (https://usenet.blueworldhosting.com) Message-ID: <10ic5d9$2mvn$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com>

    Chris responded by calling me a Trump supporter, but I ignored that
    completely and Chris responded by claiming he never read any of the cites before outright denying them, and he used a few of the other classic
    tactics to protect Apple's honor ot the detah, no matter what.

    But I'm holding both Chris and Tyrone to an adult conversation standard.
    How am I doing?

    I ask that question sincerely since it's not easy to respond to their
    taunts by sticking to the technical topic that they flatly deny having any knowledge of and then in the very next sentence, they deny the truth of it.

    Would you kindly LOOK at the conversations above and let me know how I'm
    doing trying to get both Tyrone & Chris to discuss their POV like an adult?

    Likewise, I took the recent claims by Tyrone denying all facts that he,
    himself hasn't bothered to click the links backing them up, and put each of those defenses of Apple's behavior by Tyrone in their own separate threads.

    Subject: Almost nobody on this ng understands how iOS releases
    Message-ID: <10iaacg$15pq$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com>

    Subject: Clarifying the Nature of Apple's French Criminal Settlement
    Message-ID: <10iacar$2c07$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com>

    Subject: iPhone "Efficiency": Marketing vs Measured Data
    Message-ID: <10iagk2$1csu$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com>

    Subject: Assessing the Privacy Impact of Apple's WiFi Positioning System
    Message-ID: <10iaho7$2osq$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com>

    Subject: Security Is Far More Comprehensive Than Simple Malware Statistics
    Message-ID: <10iajkh$l9v$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com>

    In each and every case, I took a claim by Chris/Tyrone that they themselves made, and I discussed THEIR CLAIM just as any adult would try to discuss.

    What do you think of the results so far?
    Q: What can we do more to help Chris/Tyrone act like adults on this ng?
    A: ?
    --
    Part of being an adult is acting like an adult, where simply claiming all facts we're ignorant of can't possibly exist is not what adults should do.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From badgolferman@REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com to misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.sys.mac.advocacy on Tue Dec 23 02:49:04 2025
    From Newsgroup: misc.phone.mobile.iphone

    Marian <marianjones@helpfulpeople.com> wrote:
    Hi badgolferman,

    You, yourself, opined that it's possible for Chris to act like an adult on this newsgroup, and I agreed with you, and I started action on that task.

    In addition, you, yourself, opined that some people can't be reasoned with. Such that no adult dialogue is possible with some Apple posters here.

    Given we've both assessed that Chris possibly "can" be reasoned with... would you kindly LOOK at the conversations below and let me know how I'm doing trying to get both Tyrone & Chris to discuss their POV like an adult?

    Just as Tyrone simply called all facts wrong, Chris is pulling the same
    trick so, rather than play their game in a childish response, I brought up each and every one of Chris' outright denials as their own adult thread.

    From: Marian <marianjones@helpfulpeople.com>
    Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
    Subject: What does it really mean when an entity chooses iOS or Android as their main platform?
    Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2025 11:10:02 -0700
    Organization: BWH Usenet Archive (https://usenet.blueworldhosting.com) Message-ID: <10ic1hq$2ckt$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com>

    From: Marian <marianjones@helpfulpeople.com>
    Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
    Subject: What does the CISA KEV database say about Android/iOS known
    critical exploits?
    Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2025 11:20:58 -0700
    Organization: BWH Usenet Archive (https://usenet.blueworldhosting.com) Message-ID: <10ic26a$1pu9$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com>

    From: Marian <marianjones@helpfulpeople.com>
    Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
    Subject: What did Google's project zero really say about Apple never
    testing much of their iOS code?
    Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2025 11:34:16 -0700
    Organization: BWH Usenet Archive (https://usenet.blueworldhosting.com) Message-ID: <10ic2v8$307u$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com>

    From: Marian <marianjones@helpfulpeople.com>
    Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
    Subject: What are the merits of the claim that iOS is "way more secure"? Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2025 12:15:53 -0700
    Organization: BWH Usenet Archive (https://usenet.blueworldhosting.com) Message-ID: <10ic5d9$2mvn$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com>

    Chris responded by calling me a Trump supporter, but I ignored that completely and Chris responded by claiming he never read any of the cites before outright denying them, and he used a few of the other classic
    tactics to protect Apple's honor ot the detah, no matter what.

    But I'm holding both Chris and Tyrone to an adult conversation standard.
    How am I doing?

    I ask that question sincerely since it's not easy to respond to their
    taunts by sticking to the technical topic that they flatly deny having any knowledge of and then in the very next sentence, they deny the truth of it.

    Would you kindly LOOK at the conversations above and let me know how I'm doing trying to get both Tyrone & Chris to discuss their POV like an adult?

    Likewise, I took the recent claims by Tyrone denying all facts that he, himself hasn't bothered to click the links backing them up, and put each of those defenses of Apple's behavior by Tyrone in their own separate threads.

    Subject: Almost nobody on this ng understands how iOS releases
    Message-ID: <10iaacg$15pq$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com>

    Subject: Clarifying the Nature of Apple's French Criminal Settlement Message-ID: <10iacar$2c07$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com>

    Subject: iPhone "Efficiency": Marketing vs Measured Data
    Message-ID: <10iagk2$1csu$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com>

    Subject: Assessing the Privacy Impact of Apple's WiFi Positioning System Message-ID: <10iaho7$2osq$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com>

    Subject: Security Is Far More Comprehensive Than Simple Malware Statistics Message-ID: <10iajkh$l9v$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com>

    In each and every case, I took a claim by Chris/Tyrone that they themselves made, and I discussed THEIR CLAIM just as any adult would try to discuss.

    What do you think of the results so far?
    Q: What can we do more to help Chris/Tyrone act like adults on this ng?
    A: ?

    When onerCOs singular focus becomes being right and winning an argument, it
    is impossible to see the bigger picture of contributing to society. ItrCOs a very self-centered mentality that erodes common human decency.

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Marian@marianjones@helpfulpeople.com to misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.sys.mac.advocacy on Mon Dec 22 21:05:50 2025
    From Newsgroup: misc.phone.mobile.iphone

    badgolferman wrote:
    What do you think of the results so far?
    Q: What can we do more to help Chris/Tyrone act like adults on this ng?
    A: ?

    When oneos singular focus becomes being right and winning an argument, it
    is impossible to see the bigger picture of contributing to society. Itos a very self-centered mentality that erodes common human decency.

    I can't tell for sure, but if you're talking about me, then I appreciate
    that you're trying to say that it looks to you like I'm trying to be right.

    Rest assured, I feel "just wanting to be right" is an utterly absurd goal.

    More often than not, people often accuse others of 'just wanting to be
    right' when they themselves don't want to engage with the actual content.

    That's fine, actually, as I put you on the spot.
    I apologize for doing that. I'll back off.

    You know I have higher degrees in engineering and a bachelors in the
    sciences, so you know I'm extremely well tuned toward always making proven defensible statements which stand up to the most intense scrutiny of
    accuracy & level of detail.

    To be clear, I wasn't trying to 'win' anything as I was presenting facts.
    If anyone disagrees with any specific points, I'm happy to discuss them.

    But I'll back off on this tack since if anyone thinks the goal is 'just
    trying to be right', then I've failed at educating people on this ng how
    Apple products actually work in the real world (outside of absurd marketing claims).
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From badgolferman@REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com to misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.sys.mac.advocacy on Tue Dec 23 11:21:48 2025
    From Newsgroup: misc.phone.mobile.iphone

    Marian <marianjones@helpfulpeople.com> wrote:
    badgolferman wrote:
    What do you think of the results so far?
    Q: What can we do more to help Chris/Tyrone act like adults on this ng?
    A: ?

    When onea+es singular focus becomes being right and winning an argument, it >> is impossible to see the bigger picture of contributing to society. Ita+es a >> very self-centered mentality that erodes common human decency.

    I can't tell for sure, but if you're talking about me, then I appreciate
    that you're trying to say that it looks to you like I'm trying to be right.

    Rest assured, I feel "just wanting to be right" is an utterly absurd goal.

    More often than not, people often accuse others of 'just wanting to be
    right' when they themselves don't want to engage with the actual content.

    That's fine, actually, as I put you on the spot.
    I apologize for doing that. I'll back off.

    You know I have higher degrees in engineering and a bachelors in the sciences, so you know I'm extremely well tuned toward always making proven defensible statements which stand up to the most intense scrutiny of
    accuracy & level of detail.

    To be clear, I wasn't trying to 'win' anything as I was presenting facts.
    If anyone disagrees with any specific points, I'm happy to discuss them.

    But I'll back off on this tack since if anyone thinks the goal is 'just trying to be right', then I've failed at educating people on this ng how Apple products actually work in the real world (outside of absurd marketing claims).


    Remember the rCLwrongrCY thread? What I said above applies to most everyone in this group. YourCOve actually admitted to being wrong in the past, itrCOs everyone elserCOs ego which canrCOt handle it. What they really want is for someone to validate them so they can _win_ their argument.

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Tyrone@none@none.none to comp.sys.mac.advocacy,misc.phone.mobile.iphone on Tue Dec 23 17:01:38 2025
    From Newsgroup: misc.phone.mobile.iphone

    On Dec 22, 2025 at 11:05:50rC>PM EST, "Marian" <marianjones@helpfulpeople.com> wrote:

    You know I have higher degrees in engineering and a bachelors in the sciences, so you know I'm extremely well tuned toward always making proven defensible statements which stand up to the most intense scrutiny of
    accuracy & level of detail.

    LOL. Priceless.

    Seriously. This goes into the Bullshit Claim Hall Of Fame. So your claim that it was impossible to run SMB Servers on iOS because Android can't was "scientific"?????

    Your "scientific proof" was a screenshot of your web server (or whatever) running on an Android phone? That was beyond pathetic as "proof" of what iOS can/can't do.

    To be clear, I wasn't trying to 'win' anything as I was presenting facts.
    If anyone disagrees with any specific points, I'm happy to discuss them.

    No, you are not happy to discuss. You just call people stupid when they prove you are wrong. That is the very definition of "needing to win".

    But I'll back off on this tack since if anyone thinks the goal is 'just trying to be right', then I've failed at educating people on this ng how Apple products actually work in the real world (outside of absurd marketing claims).

    One can't "educate" people on a topic when one does not know anything about
    the topic. Tossing out your opinions is not "educating". You know nothing
    about iOS, security or batteries. Yet you endlessly pontificate about these
    and many other topics.

    BTW, you asking Badgolferman about "adult conversations" is about as authoritative as 2 virgins talking about sex.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Alan@nuh-uh@nope.com to misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.sys.mac.advocacy on Tue Dec 23 10:26:54 2025
    From Newsgroup: misc.phone.mobile.iphone

    On 2025-12-23 03:21, badgolferman wrote:
    Marian <marianjones@helpfulpeople.com> wrote:
    badgolferman wrote:
    What do you think of the results so far?
    Q: What can we do more to help Chris/Tyrone act like adults on this ng? >>>> A: ?

    When onea+es singular focus becomes being right and winning an argument, it >>> is impossible to see the bigger picture of contributing to society. Ita+es a
    very self-centered mentality that erodes common human decency.

    I can't tell for sure, but if you're talking about me, then I appreciate
    that you're trying to say that it looks to you like I'm trying to be right. >>
    Rest assured, I feel "just wanting to be right" is an utterly absurd goal. >>
    More often than not, people often accuse others of 'just wanting to be
    right' when they themselves don't want to engage with the actual content.

    That's fine, actually, as I put you on the spot.
    I apologize for doing that. I'll back off.

    You know I have higher degrees in engineering and a bachelors in the
    sciences, so you know I'm extremely well tuned toward always making proven >> defensible statements which stand up to the most intense scrutiny of
    accuracy & level of detail.

    To be clear, I wasn't trying to 'win' anything as I was presenting facts.
    If anyone disagrees with any specific points, I'm happy to discuss them.

    But I'll back off on this tack since if anyone thinks the goal is 'just
    trying to be right', then I've failed at educating people on this ng how
    Apple products actually work in the real world (outside of absurd marketing >> claims).


    Remember the rCLwrongrCY thread? What I said above applies to most everyone in
    this group. YourCOve actually admitted to being wrong in the past, itrCOs everyone elserCOs ego which canrCOt handle it. What they really want is for someone to validate them so they can _win_ their argument.


    LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Marian@marianjones@helpfulpeople.com to misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.sys.mac.advocacy on Tue Dec 23 12:00:06 2025
    From Newsgroup: misc.phone.mobile.iphone

    badgolferman wrote:
    But I'll back off on this tack since if anyone thinks the goal is 'just
    trying to be right', then I've failed at educating people on this ng how
    Apple products actually work in the real world (outside of absurd marketing >> claims).


    Remember the "wrong" thread? What I said above applies to most everyone in this group. You've actually admitted to being wrong in the past, it's everyone else's ego which can't handle it. What they really want is for someone to validate them so they can _win_ their argument.

    Yeah. I remember it well.

    I again apologize if I came off, to you, as "just trying to be right".
    I care about discussions that aim purposefully toward a logical answer.

    Which takes great effort to attain (e.g., in the Apple WPS situation where
    I asked Apple why my opted-out AP is in their highly insecure public DB).

    The whole point of a Usenet discussion is to refine our understanding, not
    to declare victory. My educational background in science & engineering
    drilled into me that most of us start out wrong until we test our
    assumptions. That's why I appreciate when someone can admit a mistake.

    What I push back against are the folks who confuse certainty with evidence
    and think simply endlessly repeating a fact-free claim makes it true.

    You and I have both admitted when we got something wrong, because
    that's how people actually learn new things.

    I admitted it openly, publicly & repeatedly in the iOS port issue, right?
    Now I know possibly know it better'n they do, simply because I tested the
    hell out of it on Windows to make sure it wasn't doing port swapping.

    I had no problem learning from Tyrone (who was the only one I had trusted, since he knew Windows 11 behavior that I was unaware of) about the ports.

    I even profusely and openly publicly thanked Tyrone for being believable.
    And yet, even today, Tyrone uses the fact I had no trouble admitting that
    only iOS does the ports the way they do as a way to attack me endlessly.

    EDIT: I just noticed moments ago, that Tyrone ATTACKED ME VICIOUSLY simply
    for admitting I was wrong, and, let's be very clear, I'm the only one who completely and thoroughly tested the ports on Windows to make sure that
    nothing was being port mapped under the covers.

    And yet, by me LEARNING from Tyrone & OPENLY admitting I was wrong (since
    only iOS works that way), Tyrone, moments ago, viciously attacked me!

    The funny thing is they feel if someone admits they're wrong, it's a
    weakness, and yet, in reality, as you are aware, it's a strength.

    Someone who can't admit they're wrong will never learn how to be right.

    But to some of these people, if you admit you're wrong once, they attack
    you forever, just like Tyrone just did in this very thread moments ago!

    They think learning something by admitting we're wrong, is a weakness.
    And yet, it's the strength that all well-educated logical people own.
    --
    My ego is in UNDERSTANDING how the product actually works, not in
    joining a group of zealots in huddling around their marketing god.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Marian@marianjones@helpfulpeople.com to comp.sys.mac.advocacy,misc.phone.mobile.iphone on Tue Dec 23 12:29:16 2025
    From Newsgroup: misc.phone.mobile.iphone

    Tyrone wrote:
    On Dec 22, 2025 at 11:05:50rC>PM EST, "Marian" <marianjones@helpfulpeople.com>
    wrote:

    You know I have higher degrees in engineering and a bachelors in the
    sciences, so you know I'm extremely well tuned toward always making proven >> defensible statements which stand up to the most intense scrutiny of
    accuracy & level of detail.

    LOL. Priceless.

    Seriously. This goes into the Bullshit Claim Hall Of Fame. So your claim that
    it was impossible to run SMB Servers on iOS because Android can't was "scientific"?????

    Tyrone, I'm going to stay focused on the technical points rather than the personal commentary.

    When Alan Baker or Snit makes a claim, it's not believable, simply because
    they have a long sordid history of making claims that turn out to be false.

    An example is this from Snit who repeatedly claimed a decibel is a Mbps:
    <https://youtu.be/7QaABa6DFIo>
    Jolly Roger & nospam and others made the exact same claim in these threads:
    <https://groups.google.com/g/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/c/PZuec56EWB0>
    <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/PZuec56EWB0>

    Alan Baker still insists that it's impossible to change Usenet headers.
    <https://groups.google.com/g/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/c/EiNl6hyMBDo/>

    It's clear that no adult conversation is possible with such people.

    Of those, the only one I don't plonk is JR, and the reason is only because
    I learn a lot from him as he's the quintessential Apple owner mentality.

    The rest I don't respond to, and you should THANK me for not responding to them, just as I don't respond to Joerg Lorenz as he can never add value.

    I do respond to YOU though, Tyrone.
    Expressly because you CAN add value.

    Likewise with Alan Browne and Chris, Tyrone.
    Again, only because they CAN add value.

    Your "scientific proof" was a screenshot of your web server (or whatever) running on an Android phone? That was beyond pathetic as "proof" of what iOS can/can't do.

    The screenshots were simply the record of the tests I ran. They weren't the argument by themselves. I very often post screenshots in fact.

    I test almost every claim made on this Apple newsgroup, in fact.
    And I've posted, oh, I don't know, THOUSANDS of screenshots of those tests.

    For you to lambaste me for simply proving I ran the tests is revealing.

    The fact is, on Windows 10, I tested iOS privileged port access
    extensively, including checking for port mapping, and the results were consistent. I likely know what was happening better than all but you at
    this point, because I made sure which port it was using. They just assumed.

    However, I'm trained in sciences and engineering, so if you think a
    specific part of the testing was incorrect, I'm open to discussing that.

    But I'm not going to respond to personal attacks.
    I'm sticking to evidence and repeatable testing.

    And yes, I post screenshots proving that I ran those tests, Tyrone.
    It's not a crime. It's a virtue that I back up every single claim I make.

    To be clear, I wasn't trying to 'win' anything as I was presenting facts.
    If anyone disagrees with any specific points, I'm happy to discuss them.

    No, you are not happy to discuss. You just call people stupid when they prove you are wrong. That is the very definition of "needing to win".

    I'm not interested in trading insults, so I'll keep this to the facts.

    When an argument is not evidence based, and yet it's strongly held (e.g., Snit's argument that a Mbps is the same as a Decibel), I have to make an assessment of the knowledge level of the person making that strong claim.

    When it's not enough to explain to Snit (and to Jolly Roger) that just
    seeing a moving graph doesn't mean that a Decibel is the same as a Mbps,
    then I have to assess the intelligence level of the person I'm trying to
    teach.

    Specifically, when Alan Baker makes the outright claim over and over again
    that it's impossible to change Usenet headers, I have to, at some point,
    give up trying to teach him (which is why I plonk him), as I assess his intelligence level at the point that he can't learn even if I changed the headers to his name (which I did and he STILL didn't believe it).

    Likewise, when Snit (aka Brock McNuggets) repeatedly claims the only metric that matters for security is malware statistics, you have to assess whether they own the basic intelligence to understand something as complex as
    security.

    Since I assess that Joerg Lorenz, for example, can't comprehend basically anything complex, I assess him as too stupid for me to bother to converse
    with.

    You should THANK me for refusing to try to teach these people whom I've killfiled, Tyrone, instead of attacking me for ignoring people who can't comprehend the complexities of iOS (or for that matter, anything).

    But I'll back off on this tack since if anyone thinks the goal is 'just
    trying to be right', then I've failed at educating people on this ng how
    Apple products actually work in the real world (outside of absurd marketing >> claims).

    One can't "educate" people on a topic when one does not know anything about the topic. Tossing out your opinions is not "educating". You know nothing about iOS, security or batteries. Yet you endlessly pontificate about these and many other topics.

    I'll continue to stay civil and evidence-based, even though the tone from
    you seems to be attacking me viciously simply for thanking you for your
    efforts in helping me test exactly which port iOS used for its SMB access.

    However, when Alan Baker screams out repeatedly that it's impossible to
    change Usenet headers, at some point, I simply must plonk people like that.

    Hence, at this point, I "toss out" all the opinions from Alan Baker.
    And from Snit (aka Brock McNuggets). And from Joerg Lorenz.

    But people like you, and Chris, and possibly Alan Browne can add value.
    If you want to.

    You will be treated with more respect if you just give up on the goal of defending Apple to the death no matter what, using the first inane excuse
    that comes to your mind to defend Apple's behavior & marketing claims.

    BTW, you asking Badgolferman about "adult conversations" is about as authoritative as 2 virgins talking about sex.

    I could also ask Ant, who, in addition to badgolferman, manages to discuss technical topics without resorting to personal insults & endless inane
    excuses to defend Apple's marketing & behavior to the death, no matter
    what.

    Since you, Chris, and Alan Browne "can" rise to the level of Ant and badgolferman, I'm simply asking you, and Chris, and Alan Browne whether we
    can turn over a new era in the Apple Usenet newsgroups.

    The three of you have the experience and the knowledge to raise the level
    of discussions on this group. Whether that happens is entirely your call.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Alan@nuh-uh@nope.com to comp.sys.mac.advocacy,misc.phone.mobile.iphone on Tue Dec 23 12:22:58 2025
    From Newsgroup: misc.phone.mobile.iphone

    On 2025-12-23 11:29, Marian wrote:
    Tyrone wrote:
    On Dec 22, 2025 at 11:05:50rC>PM EST, "Marian"
    <marianjones@helpfulpeople.com>
    wrote:

    You know I have higher degrees in engineering and a bachelors in the
    sciences, so you know I'm extremely well tuned toward always making
    proven
    defensible statements which stand up to the most intense scrutiny of
    accuracy & level of detail.

    LOL.-a-a Priceless.

    Seriously.-a This goes into the Bullshit Claim Hall Of Fame. So your
    claim that
    it was impossible to run SMB Servers on iOS because Android can't was
    "scientific"?????

    Tyrone, I'm going to stay focused on the technical points rather than the personal commentary.

    When Alan Baker or Snit makes a claim, it's not believable, simply because they have a long sordid history of making claims that turn out to be false.

    An example is this from Snit who repeatedly claimed a decibel is a Mbps: <https://youtu.be/7QaABa6DFIo>
    Jolly Roger & nospam and others made the exact same claim in these threads: <https://groups.google.com/g/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/c/PZuec56EWB0> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/ PZuec56EWB0>

    Alan Baker still insists that it's impossible to change Usenet headers. <https://groups.google.com/g/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/c/EiNl6hyMBDo/>

    Do I?

    Where do you get, "still insists" from?

    You, OTOH, "still insist" that "catenary" bears some importance for
    taking corners on a road racing course.


    It's clear that no adult conversation is possible with such people.

    Of those, the only one I don't plonk is JR, and the reason is only because
    I learn a lot from him as he's the quintessential Apple owner mentality.

    The rest I don't respond to, and you should THANK me for not responding to them, just as I don't respond to Joerg Lorenz as he can never add value.

    I do respond to YOU though, Tyrone.
    Expressly because you CAN add value.

    Likewise with Alan Browne and Chris, Tyrone.
    Again, only because they CAN add value.

    Your "scientific proof" was a screenshot of your web server (or whatever)
    running on an Android phone?-a That was beyond pathetic as "proof" of
    what iOS
    can/can't do.

    The screenshots were simply the record of the tests I ran. They weren't the argument by themselves. I very often post screenshots in fact.

    I test almost every claim made on this Apple newsgroup, in fact.
    And I've posted, oh, I don't know, THOUSANDS of screenshots of those tests.

    For you to lambaste me for simply proving I ran the tests is revealing.

    The fact is, on Windows 10, I tested iOS privileged port access
    extensively, including checking for port mapping, and the results were consistent. I likely know what was happening better than all but you at
    this point, because I made sure which port it was using. They just assumed.

    But insisted even after being show screenshots and even videos that it couldn't be possible...


    However, I'm trained in sciences and engineering, so if you think a
    specific part of the testing was incorrect, I'm open to discussing that.

    But I'm not going to respond to personal attacks. I'm sticking to
    evidence and repeatable testing.

    And yes, I post screenshots proving that I ran those tests, Tyrone.
    It's not a crime. It's a virtue that I back up every single claim I make.

    How's that working for "catenary curves" in motorsports?

    :-)


    To be clear, I wasn't trying to 'win' anything as I was presenting
    facts.
    If anyone disagrees with any specific points, I'm happy to discuss them.

    No, you are not happy to discuss. You just call people stupid when
    they prove
    you are wrong.-a That is the very definition of "needing to win".

    I'm not interested in trading insults, so I'll keep this to the facts.

    When an argument is not evidence based, and yet it's strongly held (e.g., Snit's argument that a Mbps is the same as a Decibel), I have to make an assessment of the knowledge level of the person making that strong claim.

    When it's not enough to explain to Snit (and to Jolly Roger) that just
    seeing a moving graph doesn't mean that a Decibel is the same as a Mbps,
    then I have to assess the intelligence level of the person I'm trying to teach.
    Specifically, when Alan Baker makes the outright claim over and over again that it's impossible to change Usenet headers, I have to, at some point,
    give up trying to teach him (which is why I plonk him), as I assess his intelligence level at the point that he can't learn even if I changed the headers to his name (which I did and he STILL didn't believe it).

    Over and over? Quote me.


    Likewise, when Snit (aka Brock McNuggets) repeatedly claims the only metric that matters for security is malware statistics, you have to assess whether they own the basic intelligence to understand something as complex as security.

    Since I assess that Joerg Lorenz, for example, can't comprehend basically anything complex, I assess him as too stupid for me to bother to converse with.

    You should THANK me for refusing to try to teach these people whom I've killfiled, Tyrone, instead of attacking me for ignoring people who can't comprehend the complexities of iOS (or for that matter, anything).

    But I'll back off on this tack since if anyone thinks the goal is 'just
    trying to be right', then I've failed at educating people on this ng how >>> Apple products actually work in the real world (outside of absurd
    marketing
    claims).

    One can't "educate" people on a topic when one does not know anything
    about
    the topic. Tossing out your opinions is not "educating". You know nothing
    about iOS, security or batteries. Yet you endlessly pontificate about
    these
    and many other topics.

    I'll continue to stay civil and evidence-based, even though the tone from
    you seems to be attacking me viciously simply for thanking you for your efforts in helping me test exactly which port iOS used for its SMB access.

    However, when Alan Baker screams out repeatedly that it's impossible to change Usenet headers, at some point, I simply must plonk people like that.

    How many times much you say the same thing...

    ...and whom is it really intended to convince?


    Hence, at this point, I "toss out" all the opinions from Alan Baker.
    And from Snit (aka Brock McNuggets). And from Joerg Lorenz.

    But people like you, and Chris, and possibly Alan Browne can add value.
    If you want to.

    You will be treated with more respect if you just give up on the goal of defending Apple to the death no matter what, using the first inane excuse that comes to your mind to defend Apple's behavior & marketing claims.

    BTW, you asking Badgolferman about "adult conversations" is about as
    authoritative as 2 virgins talking about sex.

    I could also ask Ant, who, in addition to badgolferman, manages to discuss technical topics without resorting to personal insults & endless inane excuses to defend Apple's marketing & behavior to the death, no matter
    what.

    Since you, Chris, and Alan Browne "can" rise to the level of Ant and badgolferman, I'm simply asking you, and Chris, and Alan Browne whether we can turn over a new era in the Apple Usenet newsgroups.

    The three of you have the experience and the knowledge to raise the level
    of discussions on this group. Whether that happens is entirely your call.

    I left this all intact quite deliberately.

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jolly Roger@jollyroger@pobox.com to comp.sys.mac.advocacy,misc.phone.mobile.iphone on Wed Dec 24 02:35:08 2025
    From Newsgroup: misc.phone.mobile.iphone

    On 2025-12-23, Tyrone <none@none.none> wrote:
    On Dec 22, 2025 at 11:05:50rC>PM EST, "Marian" <marianjones@helpfulpeople.com>
    wrote:

    You know I have higher degrees in engineering and a bachelors in the
    sciences, so you know I'm extremely well tuned toward always making
    proven defensible statements which stand up to the most intense
    scrutiny of accuracy & level of detail.

    LOL. Priceless.

    Seriously. This goes into the Bullshit Claim Hall Of Fame. So your
    claim that it was impossible to run SMB Servers on iOS because Android
    can't was "scientific"?????

    Your "scientific proof" was a screenshot of your web server (or
    whatever) running on an Android phone? That was beyond pathetic as
    "proof" of what iOS can/can't do.

    We're all supposed to ignore that. We're also supposed to forget that he
    said it wasn't possible and then argued with and insulted every single
    person that told him he was wrong. This went on for over a week, and
    then when several of us posted screenshots proving we were right, he
    created new goal posts and started building his little narrative that he actually figured it out himself. He couldn't be more full of shit.
    --
    E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
    I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

    JR
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jolly Roger@jollyroger@pobox.com to comp.sys.mac.advocacy,misc.phone.mobile.iphone on Wed Dec 24 02:46:07 2025
    From Newsgroup: misc.phone.mobile.iphone

    On 2025-12-23, Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> wrote:
    On 2025-12-23 11:29, Marian wrote:

    The fact is, on Windows 10, I tested iOS privileged port access
    extensively, including checking for port mapping, and the results
    were consistent. I likely know what was happening better than all but
    you at this point, because I made sure which port it was using. They
    just assumed.

    But insisted even after being show screenshots and even videos that it couldn't be possible...

    Yup. Someone told him that you can run an SMB service on an iOS device
    using the default port and connect to it from a computer, and he
    immediately claimed that was not possible because it doesn't work that
    way on Android. He then argued with and insulted anyone who told him he
    was wrong. He petty bickering went on for over a week IIRC and included
    several of us posting screenshots showing that it does indeed work on
    iOS, while he continued to argue. Like most interactions with Arlen, it
    was a ridiculous waste of time filled with schoolyard insults and
    pathetic lies.
    --
    E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
    I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

    JR
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Marian@marianjones@helpfulpeople.com to comp.sys.mac.advocacy,misc.phone.mobile.iphone on Tue Dec 23 20:25:08 2025
    From Newsgroup: misc.phone.mobile.iphone

    Jolly Roger wrote:
    But insisted even after being show screenshots and even videos that it
    couldn't be possible...

    Yup. Someone told him that you can run an SMB service on an iOS device
    using the default port and connect to it from a computer, and he
    immediately claimed that was not possible because it doesn't work that
    way on Android. He then argued with and insulted anyone who told him he
    was wrong. He petty bickering went on for over a week IIRC and included several of us posting screenshots showing that it does indeed work on
    iOS, while he continued to argue. Like most interactions with Arlen, it
    was a ridiculous waste of time filled with schoolyard insults and
    pathetic lies.

    Hi Jolly Roger,

    I'm not interested in trading insults, but I'll respond to your accusation. Specifically, I will clarify facts about how I approached this discussion.

    When the SMB claim first came up, I simply couldn't rely on your statements because past technical claims you've made about iOS haven't aligned with
    what I've been able to verify in practice. That's not meant as a personal attack; it's just the reality of how adults must evaluate information.

    The only reason I took the SMB claim seriously was because Tyrone
    demonstrated a solid understanding of Windows 11 networking and provided verifiable details. Once I saw that, I then adding the testing of the
    behavior myself, and through that testing I learned exactly where iOS
    behaves differently, specifically including the lack of port mapping.

    Without that testing, I wouldn't have known, and neither would anyone else
    in the thread, that the actual ports were not being mapped under the hood.

    My point isn't to re-litigate old disagreements. That's your point.

    My point is simply to make you aware that I rely on reproducible results,
    not assertions.

    When something is demonstrated clearly, I accept it, even if it's from you.

    When it isn't, I verify it myself. That's how I approach every platform, whether that platform is iOS, Android, Windows, Linux or anything else.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Marian@marianjones@helpfulpeople.com to comp.sys.mac.advocacy,misc.phone.mobile.iphone on Tue Dec 23 20:31:29 2025
    From Newsgroup: misc.phone.mobile.iphone

    Jolly Roger wrote:
    We're all supposed to ignore that. We're also supposed to forget that he
    said it wasn't possible and then argued with and insulted every single
    person that told him he was wrong. This went on for over a week, and
    then when several of us posted screenshots proving we were right, he
    created new goal posts and started building his little narrative that he actually figured it out himself. He couldn't be more full of shit.

    I am not going to respond to JR's personal remarks. They do not help the discussion and they do not address the technical point I am raising.

    Simply allow me to set the record straight for Jolly Roger to remember,
    because his version of events leaves out the most important part.

    I did not reject the SMB claim because of Android. I rejected it because
    you have a long history of making technical claims about iOS that cannot be verified, and then attacking anyone who asks for evidence. After years of
    that pattern, I simply could not rely on your statements without
    independent confirmation.

    The only reason I took the SMB claim seriously was because Tyrone
    demonstrated actual knowledge of Windows 11 networking.

    Once he showed that, only then I treated his claim as worth testing.

    I then verified it myself on Windows 10 specifically to rule out any port-mapping artifacts. When the results matched what he described, I acknowledged it and thanked him.

    That is not weakness.

    That is how someone trained in engineering and sciences behaves.
    When evidence appears, you update your conclusions.

    What I will not do is accept unverified assertions from people who have repeatedly made inaccurate claims about iOS in the past. My approach has
    been consistent the entire time as I trust reproducible results, not declarations.

    You did not provide reproducible results. Tyrone did.
    That is why I accepted his information and not yours.

    I hope you understand.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Chris@ithinkiam@gmail.com to misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.sys.mac.advocacy on Wed Dec 24 10:25:59 2025
    From Newsgroup: misc.phone.mobile.iphone

    Marian <marianjones@helpfulpeople.com> wrote:
    I've failed at educating people on this ng how
    Apple products actually work in the real world

    This is the problem right here. No-one wants a self-appointed know-it-all
    to "educate" them on this ng nor any other one you contribute to.

    Your arrogant (yet fragile) attitude is not welcome which why you get so
    much negativity across the board.

    I'm done with you for 2025. I'm not going to respond anymore to you this
    year as it's Christmas.

    Hope everyone has an enjoyable holiday and gets a new iphone from Santa :)
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Marian@marianjones@helpfulpeople.com to misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.sys.mac.advocacy on Wed Dec 24 06:45:31 2025
    From Newsgroup: misc.phone.mobile.iphone

    Chris wrote:
    Marian <marianjones@helpfulpeople.com> wrote:
    I've failed at educating people on this ng how
    Apple products actually work in the real world

    This is the problem right here. No-one wants a self-appointed know-it-all
    to "educate" them on this ng nor any other one you contribute to.

    Your arrogant (yet fragile) attitude is not welcome which why you get so
    much negativity across the board.

    I'm done with you for 2025. I'm not going to respond anymore to you this
    year as it's Christmas.

    Hope everyone has an enjoyable holiday and gets a new iphone from Santa :)

    Well, here's the good news.

    If it wasn't for me, you'd never know how Apple's WPS database works.
    You'd only have Apple's word, instead of the actual facts.

    Now you're educated.
    I've done my job.

    Consider it a gift of knowledge.

    Have a happy holiday to you, and to all.
    -Marian
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jolly Roger@jollyroger@pobox.com to comp.sys.mac.advocacy,misc.phone.mobile.iphone on Thu Dec 25 20:28:00 2025
    From Newsgroup: misc.phone.mobile.iphone

    On 2025-12-24, Marian <marianjones@helpfulpeople.com> wrote:
    Jolly Roger wrote:

    We're all supposed to ignore that. We're also supposed to forget that
    he said it wasn't possible and then argued with and insulted every
    single person that told him he was wrong. This went on for over a
    week, and then when several of us posted screenshots proving we were
    right, he created new goal posts and started building his little
    narrative that he actually figured it out himself. He couldn't be
    more full of shit.

    I did not reject the SMB claim because of Android.

    You did. You claimed because Android cannot do it, that iOS also cannot
    do it. We all read your words. It's on record, liar. Efye

    you have a long history of making technical claims about iOS that cannot be verified

    Then it should be very easy for you to point to one. #JustOne

    You won't because you can't because you are a liar.

    The only reason I took the SMB claim seriously was because Tyrone demonstrated actual knowledge of Windows 11 networking.

    I did too. You argued with each and every person who did so. You spent
    over a week bickering about this, long after several people showed you
    proof that it works fine on iOS.

    That is not weakness.

    Keep repeating that if it helps you feel better. It doesn't change
    anything back here in reality, Pumpkin.
    --
    E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
    I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

    JR
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Marian@marianjones@helpfulpeople.com to comp.sys.mac.advocacy,misc.phone.mobile.iphone on Thu Dec 25 19:14:34 2025
    From Newsgroup: misc.phone.mobile.iphone

    Jolly Roger wrote:
    On 2025-12-24, Marian <marianjones@helpfulpeople.com> wrote:
    Jolly Roger wrote:

    We're all supposed to ignore that. We're also supposed to forget that
    he said it wasn't possible and then argued with and insulted every
    single person that told him he was wrong. This went on for over a
    week, and then when several of us posted screenshots proving we were
    right, he created new goal posts and started building his little
    narrative that he actually figured it out himself. He couldn't be
    more full of shit.

    I did not reject the SMB claim because of Android.

    You did. You claimed because Android cannot do it, that iOS also cannot
    do it. We all read your words. It's on record, liar.

    you have a long history of making technical claims about iOS that cannot be >> verified

    Then it should be very easy for you to point to one. #JustOne

    You won't because you can't because you are a liar.

    The only reason I took the SMB claim seriously was because Tyrone
    demonstrated actual knowledge of Windows 11 networking.

    I did too. You argued with each and every person who did so. You spent
    over a week bickering about this, long after several people showed you
    proof that it works fine on iOS.

    That is not weakness.

    Keep repeating that if it helps you feel better. It doesn't change
    anything back here in reality, Pumpkin.

    Hi Jolly Roger,

    Merry Christmas!

    I am not going to address the personal remarks from Jolly Roger.
    They do not contribute to the technical discussion.

    To stay focused on the actual issue, my position has been consistent.
    I do not accept prima facie any technical claim about iOS, Android,
    Windows, or any other platform from JR without reproducible evidence.

    To weigh the credibility of the post is common standard science &
    engineering practice we extremely-well-educated people often employ.

    Regarding SMB access testing, the sequence was straightforward:

    a. Multiple claims were made, but all without reproducible steps
    and nobody showed exactly which port was being used or verified.
    b. Later, Tyrone provided a technically coherent explanation of
    the Windows 11 networking behavior involved, which was credible.
    c. Based on that credibility alone, I fully and completely tested
    the scenario myself on Windows 10 to the level that none of the
    folks on this newsgroup perhaps save for Tyrone, could understand.
    d. This eliminated variables such as port mapping possibilities.
    e. My results matched what Tyrone described, so I accepted the conclusion.
    f. Like any well-educated intelligent adult whose ego is not tied
    in rhetoric, I openly publicly profusely thanked Tyrone & JR.

    This is a fact.
    It's not an opinion.

    Jolly Roger seems to have forgotten what happened, and he seems to have forgotten he lacks credibility in that Jolly Roger even today still claims
    his iOS device saves the IPA to the device, so, with that in mind, it's no wonder well-educated people don't find Jolly Rogers wild claims credible.

    For example, JR still claims that a decibel and a Mbps are the same thing!
    *It's a fact iOS devices can't even graph Wi-Fi signal strength over time*
    <https://groups.google.com/g/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/c/PZuec56EWB0

    In summary, the basis of my response was to only invest the time to explore claims by people who proved themselves to be credible purveyors of fact.

    It was simply a matter of verifying a claim before accepting it.

    If you have reproducible technical data to contribute, I will evaluate it
    the same way. If not, there is nothing further to resolve on this point.
    --
    I'm not interested in trading insults, so I'll keep this to the facts.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Alan@nuh-uh@nope.com to comp.sys.mac.advocacy,misc.phone.mobile.iphone on Sat Dec 27 20:13:25 2025
    From Newsgroup: misc.phone.mobile.iphone

    On 2025-12-23 19:25, Marian wrote:
    Jolly Roger wrote:
    But insisted even after being show screenshots and even videos that it
    couldn't be possible...

    Yup. Someone told him that you can run an SMB service on an iOS device
    using the default port and connect to it from a computer, and he
    immediately claimed that was not possible because it doesn't work that
    way on Android. He then argued with and insulted anyone who told him he
    was wrong. He petty bickering went on for over a week IIRC and included
    several of us posting screenshots showing that it does indeed work on
    iOS, while he continued to argue. Like most interactions with Arlen, it
    was a ridiculous waste of time filled with schoolyard insults and
    pathetic lies.

    Hi Jolly Roger,

    I'm not interested in trading insults,

    There were no insults in what he wrote. Only an accurate description of
    what transpired.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2