From Newsgroup: comp.windows.x

Mesa now depends on libLLVM which is huge, but I don't use 3D
graphics except on one system (running obsolete Linux anyay) so
it's only there to satisfy dependencies on libGL. The software runs
in an X server without GLX and if there's any tiny performance
advantage from 2D rendering with OpenGL I don't care about it.

The Mesa FAQ talks about "Stand-alone Mesa", as an "emulation" of
GLX where OpenGL isn't actually used by the X server. That sounds
like what I want - presumably no libLLVM dependency since there's
no OpenGL rendering in X? Probably the same as what "DRI Mesa" is
doing when displaying on an X server without GLX anyway.

https://docs.mesa3d.org/faq.html#what-s-the-difference-between-stand-alone-mesa-and-the-dri-drivers

But that's the only reference to "stand-alone Mesa" in the docs. I
searched in "meson.options" for "stand" but no results, so what's
the secret to building "Stand-alone Mesa"? Is it just what's left
when you disable enough drivers/features?
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From Newsgroup: comp.windows.x

On 24 Oct 2025 08:30:55 +1000, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:

Mesa now depends on libLLVM which is huge, but I don't use 3D graphics
except on one system ...

Lots of onscreen rendering is done through 3D libraries now anyway. This
is because people realized a couple of decades or so ago (thanks to Apple) that having separate 2D and 3D acceleration in your graphics hardware was unnecessary duplication of functionality.
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From Newsgroup: comp.windows.x

In comp.windows.x Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

On 24 Oct 2025 08:30:55 +1000, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:

Mesa now depends on libLLVM which is huge, but I don't use 3D graphics
except on one system ...

Lots of onscreen rendering is done through 3D libraries now anyway. This
is because people realized a couple of decades or so ago (thanks to Apple) that having separate 2D and 3D acceleration in your graphics hardware was unnecessary duplication of functionality.

Yes I know OpenGL can be used for 2D rendering, but like I already
said, I know it's not here because these programs display on an X
server without GLX support. As it happens I tried four of my
most-used programs depending on Mesa libs (libGL, libEGL, libGLES,
etc.) with Mesa's libraries removed and they run fine. The deps on
Mesa are from silly things like librsvg required by GTK2 and libva2
required by FFmpeg (I'm not using GPU video encoding/decoding) so I
might even manage fine without Mesa at all.

It turns out Mesa won't build without any drivers enabled, so
that's not how you make "stand-alone Mesa". But the next best thing
is to only enable the "softpipe" software renderer driver which
doesn't require LLVM. That's working in Firefox (which works
without Mesa too, but detects when it's available), and cuts out
all the big dependencies including libLLVM.

build options used:
-Dvalgrind=disabled -Dlibunwind=disabled -Dglx-direct=false \
-Dgles2=enabled -Dplatforms=x11 -Dallow-fallback-for=libdrm \
-Dvideo-codecs= -Dvulkan-drivers= -Dgallium-drivers=softpipe

It'll do for me, if I actually need Mesa installed at all. I still
don't think that's "stand-alone Mesa" though...
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From Newsgroup: comp.windows.x

On 2025-10-24, Computer Nerd Kev <not@telling.you.invalid> wrote:

In comp.windows.x Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

On 24 Oct 2025 08:30:55 +1000, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:

Mesa now depends on libLLVM which is huge, but I don't use 3D graphics
except on one system ...

Lots of onscreen rendering is done through 3D libraries now anyway. This
is because people realized a couple of decades or so ago (thanks to Apple) >> that having separate 2D and 3D acceleration in your graphics hardware was >> unnecessary duplication of functionality.

Yes I know OpenGL can be used for 2D rendering, but like I already
said, I know it's not here because these programs display on an X
server without GLX support. As it happens I tried four of my
most-used programs depending on Mesa libs (libGL, libEGL, libGLES,
etc.) with Mesa's libraries removed and they run fine. The deps on
Mesa are from silly things like librsvg required by GTK2 and libva2
required by FFmpeg (I'm not using GPU video encoding/decoding) so I
might even manage fine without Mesa at all.

It turns out Mesa won't build without any drivers enabled, so
that's not how you make "stand-alone Mesa". But the next best thing
is to only enable the "softpipe" software renderer driver which
doesn't require LLVM. That's working in Firefox (which works
without Mesa too, but detects when it's available), and cuts out
all the big dependencies including libLLVM.

build options used:
-Dvalgrind=disabled -Dlibunwind=disabled -Dglx-direct=false \
-Dgles2=enabled -Dplatforms=x11 -Dallow-fallback-for=libdrm \
-Dvideo-codecs= -Dvulkan-drivers= -Dgallium-drivers=softpipe

It'll do for me, if I actually need Mesa installed at all. I still
don't think that's "stand-alone Mesa" though...

You can use TinyGL as an alternative for really old software.
Not complete, but it will work for legacy stuff.
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