knuttle wrote:
[snip]
Have you tried to print with a hard wired connection ie through USB or
the printer cable (if present).
If it prints directly it would possible isolate the problem to the
wireless connection.
HP printers are known for being WiFi only.
Moral - do not use them!
Go for one with USB and/or Ethernet.
On 2024-11-27 11:45, Graham J wrote:
knuttle wrote:Fascinating. I've had several HP printers over the years, and only the
[snip]
Have you tried to print with a hard wired connection ie through USB
or the printer cable (if present).
If it prints directly it would possible isolate the problem to the
wireless connection.
HP printers are known for being WiFi only.
Moral - do not use them!
Go for one with USB and/or Ethernet.
last two have wifi and/or Ethernet. The rest were USB-only.
No, I take that back. My Deskjet 5650 has USB or parallel port
capability. I don't use it much these days because my color Laserjet is cheaper and faster, but when I do it still works great. Probably
wouldn't work with Windows, but then I use Mageia Linux.
Those last two printers, A Color Laserjet M254dw and an Envy Photo 7858
both have USB, as well. They also work great with Mageia
(Yes, I know this thread is a year old. I'm responding as much to test newsgroup posting with a Thunderbird update as anything else...)
TJ
Mageia Linux QA Team Leader
On 10/21/2025 3:19 PM, TJ wrote:
On 2024-11-27 11:45, Graham J wrote:
knuttle wrote:Fascinating. I've had several HP printers over the years, and only the
[snip]
Have you tried to print with a hard wired connection ie through USB
or the printer cable (if present).
If it prints directly it would possible isolate the problem to the
wireless connection.
HP printers are known for being WiFi only.
Moral - do not use them!
Go for one with USB and/or Ethernet.
last two have wifi and/or Ethernet. The rest were USB-only.
No, I take that back. My Deskjet 5650 has USB or parallel port
capability. I don't use it much these days because my color Laserjet
is cheaper and faster, but when I do it still works great. Probably
wouldn't work with Windows, but then I use Mageia Linux.
Those last two printers, A Color Laserjet M254dw and an Envy Photo
7858 both have USB, as well. They also work great with Mageia
(Yes, I know this thread is a year old. I'm responding as much to test
newsgroup posting with a Thunderbird update as anything else...)
TJ
Mageia Linux QA Team Leader
I don't remember the exact details of the problem I was having with my
HP printer, other that it was resolved.-a-a I now own my fourth HP printer an HP-7602.-a It is connected to three computers by wireless connnections.-a-a All three computer can print and scan with the computer.
I have had the HP-7602 for over a year now.-a It is the econ tank type printer. Each color cartrige is about 70 ml and the black about twice that.-a-a I print personal documents and reports associated with the
church finances.-a-a I don't know how many things that have been scanned.
Once set up the HP-7602 performed perfectly, and the print quality is
very good.-a I have had no clogging problems with the print heads.
Prior to getting the new printer I was going through about 3 or 4 print cartridges per year at about $70/each.-a-a In the last year I have not
spent a penny for printer ink.
Base on the performance and cost of operation, it was one of the better items I have purchased.
On 2025-10-21 16:53, knuttle wrote:
On 10/21/2025 3:19 PM, TJ wrote:My first Laserjet was a gift, an old CP1215 rescued by my nephew when his employer upgraded. It worked OK, but was USB-only, no duplex, and rather slow. Last year a paper jam damaged the "intermediate transfer belt" so that it needed to be replaced. I could find the part on Ebay, but it was costly and installation was tricky. It was more effective to purchase a gently used M254dw.
On 2024-11-27 11:45, Graham J wrote:
knuttle wrote:Fascinating. I've had several HP printers over the years, and only the last two have wifi and/or Ethernet. The rest were USB-only.
[snip]
Have you tried to print with a hard wired connection ie through USB or the printer cable (if present).
If it prints directly it would possible isolate the problem to the wireless connection.
HP printers are known for being WiFi only.
Moral - do not use them!
Go for one with USB and/or Ethernet.
No, I take that back. My Deskjet 5650 has USB or parallel port capability. I don't use it much these days because my color Laserjet is cheaper and faster, but when I do it still works great. Probably wouldn't work with Windows, but then I use Mageia Linux.
Those last two printers, A Color Laserjet M254dw and an Envy Photo 7858 both have USB, as well. They also work great with Mageia
(Yes, I know this thread is a year old. I'm responding as much to test newsgroup posting with a Thunderbird update as anything else...)
TJ
Mageia Linux QA Team Leader
I don't remember the exact details of the problem I was having with my HP printer, other that it was resolved.-a-a I now own my fourth HP printer an HP-7602.-a It is connected to three computers by wireless connnections.-a-a All three computer can print and scan with the computer.
I have had the HP-7602 for over a year now.-a It is the econ tank type printer. Each color cartrige is about 70 ml and the black about twice that.-a-a I print personal documents and reports associated with the church finances.-a-a I don't know how many things that have been scanned.
Once set up the HP-7602 performed perfectly, and the print quality is very good.-a I have had no clogging problems with the print heads.
Prior to getting the new printer I was going through about 3 or 4 print cartridges per year at about $70/each.-a-a In the last year I have not spent a penny for printer ink.
Base on the performance and cost of operation, it was one of the better items I have purchased.
This particular printer came with toner cartridges almost used up, but was still using the original firmware, thus allowing it to function with aftermarket cartridges. I have disabled automatic firmware updates, so it will stay that way.
I bought a set for around $50, installed them, and they've worked perfectly. I've used the printer for making signs for our farm stand, address labels, business cards, preparing the farm taxes, and printing a few photos. At the moment, the black cartridge indicates 80% left, and the color carts say over 90% left.
Since it's close enough to my router I connected via Ethernet, as it is faster than wifi. I'm VERY happy with it so far.
TJ
Sure, my other-brand printer has Wifi, but it also has USB, and
that's why I felt safe in buying it. If there is a USB port it
means the company wants to do business the proper way, with the
consumer in control and no arm-twisting and slick-willy crap.
In article <10d9jbk$ci2n$1@dont-email.me>,
Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
Sure, my other-brand printer has Wifi, but it also has USB, and
that's why I felt safe in buying it. If there is a USB port it
means the company wants to do business the proper way, with the
consumer in control and no arm-twisting and slick-willy crap.
I have an Epson WF-7715, A3 printer scanner, this has Wi-Fi, USB and ethernet, but most of my printing, B&W, is done on a Xerox B310 Laser,
which also has full connectivity. To me Ethernet is essential for
connecting to my several computers in various parts of the house. My
entire network is wired apart from portable devices such as phones and tablets. Desktop computers don't come with Wi-Fi!
wired apart from portable devices such as phones andI have had two computers with WIFI. The HP desktop that was recently
tablets. Desktop computers don't come with Wi-Fi!
On 10/22/2025 12:30 PM, Stuart wrote:
wired apart from portable devices such as phones andI have had two computers with WIFI. The HP desktop that was recently replaced had USB, so I was able to connect to the internet either by USB or WIFI.-a My new desktop also has the ability to connect both WIFI or USB.-a In my experience, many desktops and laptops use a card that combines both Bluetooth and WIFI on the same card. So I would expect any desktop the can connect with Bluetooth will also connect with WIFI.
tablets. Desktop computers don't come with Wi-Fi!
To me this makes sense as it means one radio sender and receiver, that can be used for either by changing the radio frequency.
It has been stated else where in this tread that HP printers do not come with a USB port and must be connected wireless.-a-a While that maybe true for some models; in my research to buy my new printer, all HP printers that I looked at could be connect either wireless or USB port.-a On this model, HP7601, the port is on the front of the printer on the lower left side.
On Tue, 10/21/2025 5:54 PM, TJ wrote:
On 2025-10-21 16:53, knuttle wrote:
On 10/21/2025 3:19 PM, TJ wrote:My first Laserjet was a gift, an old CP1215 rescued by my nephew when his employer upgraded. It worked OK, but was USB-only, no duplex, and rather slow. Last year a paper jam damaged the "intermediate transfer belt" so that it needed to be replaced. I could find the part on Ebay, but it was costly and installation was tricky. It was more effective to purchase a gently used M254dw.
On 2024-11-27 11:45, Graham J wrote:
knuttle wrote:Fascinating. I've had several HP printers over the years, and only the last two have wifi and/or Ethernet. The rest were USB-only.
[snip]
Have you tried to print with a hard wired connection ie through USB or the printer cable (if present).
If it prints directly it would possible isolate the problem to the wireless connection.
HP printers are known for being WiFi only.
Moral - do not use them!
Go for one with USB and/or Ethernet.
No, I take that back. My Deskjet 5650 has USB or parallel port capability. I don't use it much these days because my color Laserjet is cheaper and faster, but when I do it still works great. Probably wouldn't work with Windows, but then I use Mageia Linux.
Those last two printers, A Color Laserjet M254dw and an Envy Photo 7858 both have USB, as well. They also work great with Mageia
(Yes, I know this thread is a year old. I'm responding as much to test newsgroup posting with a Thunderbird update as anything else...)
TJ
Mageia Linux QA Team Leader
I don't remember the exact details of the problem I was having with my HP printer, other that it was resolved.-a-a I now own my fourth HP printer an HP-7602.-a It is connected to three computers by wireless connnections.-a-a All three computer can print and scan with the computer.
I have had the HP-7602 for over a year now.-a It is the econ tank type printer. Each color cartrige is about 70 ml and the black about twice that.-a-a I print personal documents and reports associated with the church finances.-a-a I don't know how many things that have been scanned.
Once set up the HP-7602 performed perfectly, and the print quality is very good.-a I have had no clogging problems with the print heads.
Prior to getting the new printer I was going through about 3 or 4 print cartridges per year at about $70/each.-a-a In the last year I have not spent a penny for printer ink.
Base on the performance and cost of operation, it was one of the better items I have purchased.
This particular printer came with toner cartridges almost used up, but was still using the original firmware, thus allowing it to function with aftermarket cartridges. I have disabled automatic firmware updates, so it will stay that way.
I bought a set for around $50, installed them, and they've worked perfectly. I've used the printer for making signs for our farm stand, address labels, business cards, preparing the farm taxes, and printing a few photos. At the moment, the black cartridge indicates 80% left, and the color carts say over 90% left.
Since it's close enough to my router I connected via Ethernet, as it is faster than wifi. I'm VERY happy with it so far.
TJ
One of the reasons HP resorted to Wifi-only printing, was to force users
to use a smartphone APP or the like, for setup. This would lead the user through an HP SMART Ink subscription (an unnecessary shipping of HP-branded inks or toners which you're billed for and show up in your post box).
This is so hated by some customers forced into it, you can find small
boxes of HP print materials, sitting on the top of the postal boxes,
where the people in my community feel that by not taking the ink home,
it somehow gets you out of your contract.
The result of this slick-willy approach to doing business is:
1) You stop doing business with HP entirely, and tell them to
shove their printers up their ass.
One of the reasons HP resorted to Wifi-only printing, was to force users
to use a smartphone APP or the like, for setup. This would lead the user through an HP SMART Ink subscription (an unnecessary shipping of HP-branded inks or toners which you're billed for and show up in your post box).
This is so hated by some customers forced into it, you can find small
boxes of HP print materials, sitting on the top of the postal boxes,
where the people in my community feel that by not taking the ink home,
it somehow gets you out of your contract.
The result of this slick-willy approach to doing business is:
1) You stop doing business with HP entirely, and tell them to
shove their printers up their ass.
2) You only select printers with backup print paths. Wifi+Eth, Wifi+USB.
Sure, my other-brand printer has Wifi, but it also has USB, and
that's why I felt safe in buying it. If there is a USB port it
means the company wants to do business the proper way, with the
consumer in control and no arm-twisting and slick-willy crap.
Paul
[snip]
Changing program toapp is reminiscent of changing directory to folder, another unnecessary
change meant to cater to people they think are too dumb to learn a new
word. But it's worse because it's confusing and folder is not
inherently confusing.
I'd rather call them directories. "Folder" is an old way of carrying
papers around, that you have to be very careful with or risk having an unsorted mess on the floor.
[snip]
In article <10d9jbk$ci2n$1@dont-email.me>,
Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
Sure, my other-brand printer has Wifi, but it also has USB, and
that's why I felt safe in buying it. If there is a USB port it
means the company wants to do business the proper way, with the
consumer in control and no arm-twisting and slick-willy crap.
I have an Epson WF-7715, A3 printer scanner, this has Wi-Fi, USB and ethernet, but most of my printing, B&W, is done on a Xerox B310 Laser,
which also has full connectivity. To me Ethernet is essential for
connecting to my several computers in various parts of the house. My
entire network is wired apart from portable devices such as phones and tablets. Desktop computers don't come with Wi-Fi!
It has been stated else where in this tread that HP printers do not come with a USB port and must be connected wireless. While that maybe true
for some models; in my research to buy my new printer, all HP printers
that I looked at could be connect either wireless or USB port. On this model, HP7601, the port is on the front of the printer on the lower left side.
Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
In article <10d9jbk$ci2n$1@dont-email.me>,
Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
Sure, my other-brand printer has Wifi, but it also has USB, and
that's why I felt safe in buying it. If there is a USB port it
means the company wants to do business the proper way, with the
consumer in control and no arm-twisting and slick-willy crap.
I have an Epson WF-7715, A3 printer scanner, this has Wi-Fi, USB and
ethernet, but most of my printing, B&W, is done on a Xerox B310 Laser,
which also has full connectivity. To me Ethernet is essential for
connecting to my several computers in various parts of the house. My
entire network is wired apart from portable devices such as phones and
tablets. Desktop computers don't come with Wi-Fi!
Depends on where and what kind of 'desktop' computers you buy, but
most consumer ready-to-use (i.e. not built/assemble) yourself) 'desktop' (i.e. tower, lunchbox, all-in-one. etc.) computers *do* come with Wi-Fi.
The ones without Wi-Fi are the exception, not the rule.
On Thu, 10/23/2025 4:43 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:[]
Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
I think to me and Frank, "retail motherboard" implies "built/assemble yourself".tablets. Desktop computers don't come with Wi-Fi!
Depends on where and what kind of 'desktop' computers you buy, but
most consumer ready-to-use (i.e. not built/assemble) yourself) 'desktop' ....................................^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
(i.e. tower, lunchbox, all-in-one. etc.) computers *do* come with Wi-Fi.
The ones without Wi-Fi are the exception, not the rule.
As a consumer, it doesn't hurt to check what a machine has.
Of three retail motherboards (mid-range price), one has a Wifi
on the I/O plate, two have no Wifi on them. It is easy to installAnd that certainly does :-) !
a PCIe x1 lane card to add Wifi to the ones that don't have it.
On 2025/10/23 14:20:4, Paul wrote:
On Thu, 10/23/2025 4:43 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
[]
tablets. Desktop computers don't come with Wi-Fi!
Depends on where and what kind of 'desktop' computers you buy, but
most consumer ready-to-use (i.e. not built/assemble) yourself) 'desktop'
....................................^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
(i.e. tower, lunchbox, all-in-one. etc.) computers *do* come with Wi-Fi. >> The ones without Wi-Fi are the exception, not the rule.
As a consumer, it doesn't hurt to check what a machine has.
Of three retail motherboards (mid-range price), one has a Wifi
I think to me and Frank, "retail motherboard" implies "built/assemble yourself".
on the I/O plate, two have no Wifi on them. It is easy to install
a PCIe x1 lane card to add Wifi to the ones that don't have it.
And that certainly does :-) !
[]
I haven't even _looked_ at pre-built PCs for so many years, but I
_think_ I'd agree with Stuart that such (other than laptops, obviously) probably don't have wifi - except maybe the "novelty" ones like those
little boxes.
On 2025/10/23 14:20:4, Paul wrote:
On Thu, 10/23/2025 4:43 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
[]
tablets. Desktop computers don't come with Wi-Fi!
Depends on where and what kind of 'desktop' computers you buy, but
most consumer ready-to-use (i.e. not built/assemble) yourself) 'desktop'
....................................^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
(i.e. tower, lunchbox, all-in-one. etc.) computers *do* come with Wi-Fi. >>> The ones without Wi-Fi are the exception, not the rule.
As a consumer, it doesn't hurt to check what a machine has.
Of three retail motherboards (mid-range price), one has a Wifi
I think to me and Frank, "retail motherboard" implies "built/assemble yourself".
on the I/O plate, two have no Wifi on them. It is easy to install
a PCIe x1 lane card to add Wifi to the ones that don't have it.
And that certainly does :-) !
[]
I haven't even _looked_ at pre-built PCs for so many years, but I
_think_ I'd agree with Stuart that such (other than laptops, obviously) probably don't have wifi - except maybe the "novelty" ones like those
little boxes.
On 10/23/2025 9:53 AM, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
On 2025/10/23 14:20:4, Paul wrote:
On Thu, 10/23/2025 4:43 AM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
Stuart <Spambin@argonet.co.uk> wrote:
[]
tablets. Desktop computers don't come with Wi-Fi!
Depends on where and what kind of 'desktop' computers you buy, but
most consumer ready-to-use (i.e. not built/assemble) yourself) 'desktop'
....................................^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
(i.e. tower, lunchbox, all-in-one. etc.) computers *do* come with Wi-Fi. >>> The ones without Wi-Fi are the exception, not the rule.
As a consumer, it doesn't hurt to check what a machine has.
Of three retail motherboards (mid-range price), one has a Wifi
I think to me and Frank, "retail motherboard" implies "built/assemble yourself".
on the I/O plate, two have no Wifi on them. It is easy to install
a PCIe x1 lane card to add Wifi to the ones that don't have it.
And that certainly does :-) !
[]
I haven't even _looked_ at pre-built PCs for so many years, but I
_think_ I'd agree with Stuart that such (other than laptops, obviously) probably don't have wifi - except maybe the "novelty" ones like those little boxes.
However I beleive most of the off the shelf units bought by the average
use, will find both bluetooth and WIFI standard on those units.
I doubt if the majority of user today have ever bought a motherboard or built one off computer.
Yes. I forgot to mention that most consumers very likely can't beYou forgot the expense of fishing the cables through the walls and
bothered to pull/mount LAN cables through their house. Much too awkward,
too much work and*why*?
On 10/23/2025 1:35 PM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
-a Yes. I forgot to mention that most consumers very likely can't beYou forgot the expense of fishing the cables through the walls and
bothered to pull/mount LAN cables through their house. Much too awkward,
too much work and*why*?
attic, if available.
knuttle wrote:
On 10/23/2025 1:35 PM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
-a Yes. I forgot to mention that most consumers very likely can't beYou forgot the expense of fishing the cables through the walls and attic, if available.
bothered to pull/mount LAN cables through their house. Much too awkward, >>> too much work and*why*?
[snip]
Here in the UK many old houses have stone walls at least a foot thick. Wireless signals don't pass through such walls.-a Attempts to make WiFi work using mesh techniques or whatever usually fail.-a YMMV.
If you need WiFi you have to put a Wireless Access Point in each room and connect them to the router via Ethernet cable.-a So usually you run cables up the wall and through the roof space, or take outdoor grade cables through wooden window frames and around the external walls.-a This all takes time, but mostly you can do it yourself.-a Perhaps pay a qualified technician to terminate and test the cables.
knuttle wrote:
On 10/23/2025 1:35 PM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
-a Yes. I forgot to mention that most consumers very likely can't beYou forgot the expense of fishing the cables through the walls and
bothered to pull/mount LAN cables through their house. Much too awkward, >>> too much work and*why*?
attic, if available.
[snip]
Here in the UK many old houses have stone walls at least a foot thick. Wireless signals don't pass through such walls.-a Attempts to make WiFi
work using mesh techniques or whatever usually fail.-a YMMV.
If you need WiFi you have to put a Wireless Access Point in each room
and connect them to the router via Ethernet cable.-a So usually you run cables up the wall and through the roof space, or take outdoor grade
cables through wooden window frames and around the external walls.-a This all takes time, but mostly you can do it yourself.-a Perhaps pay a
qualified technician to terminate and test the cables.
And 6GHz is not going to penetrate walls wellSee my previous post in response to Graham J.
On 10/23/2025 6:16 PM, Paul wrote:
And 6GHz is not going to penetrate walls wellSee my previous post in response to Graham J.
When talking about what will the various frequency penetrate, talking generalities can cause problems.-a When talking what the frequency will penetrate, you must consider the house you live in.-a-a If you live in a house with stone inside and outside walls the penetration will be significantly different than if you live in a house with wooden studs cover by drywall.
Our house is the later.-a I have a router that uses 4x4 802.11ax on 2.4GHz, and 4x4 802.11axon 5GHz.-a-a
With this router I get good reception in my 2 story about 2000 sqft house.
On Thu, 10/23/2025 6:54 PM, knuttle wrote:6 or 60?
On 10/23/2025 6:16 PM, Paul wrote:
And 6GHz is not going to penetrate walls well
Yes, most devices (I think all) that have 5 GHz also have 2.4 GHz - I'mSee my previous post in response to Graham J.
When talking about what will the various frequency penetrate, talking generalities can cause problems.-a When talking what the frequency will penetrate, you must consider the house you live in.-a-a If you live in a house with stone inside and outside walls the penetration will be significantly different than if you live in a house with wooden studs cover by drywall.
Our house is the later.-a I have a router that uses 4x4 802.11ax on 2.4GHz, and 4x4 802.11axon 5GHz.-a-a
With this router I get good reception in my 2 story about 2000 sqft house.
But, you're getting good reception on 2.4GHz and the 5GHz is unlikely to be as good.
There are general RF principles involved here. For example, moisture absorbs RF,That's how microwave cooking works (domestic ones mostly use around 2.4
which is why snow or rain outside affects things like WISP (community radio).And satellite TV, when that was common.
But even *air* absorbs RF, there is loss per meter.With the permitted power levels, that is, and fairly non-directional
This is why the 60GHz WiMax only works out to 25 feet in air. If you were in
a church hall, having a supper, the 60GHz WiMax would not reach from one end of the hall to the other. If you were doing a cable-less HDMI transmitterIn the GHz, yes.
at the end of the hall, the monitor would not light up, because that
was too far for it. The 60GHz units cheat by also supporting 2.4GHz and> 5GHz, so at 100 feet they still give "some service" by cheating
and not running at 700MB/sec. You are then limited to much lower rates
and your monitor at the end of the church hall is like a slide show if
it runs at all.
The fire department uses 900MHz. The fire fighter stand near the
elevator core, when communicating between floors.
GPS does not work inside the house (except if you press your gear
right up against the window). That's a microwave frequency.
But AM and FM radio easily penetrate the house shell. You can likelyAnd around 1 MHz for AM (about 500 to 1600 kHz). That's "MW" or medium
manage to block that, with foil backed insulation everywhere. but for
a lot of houses, the AM/FM radio works OK. These are lower frequencies
that penetrate materials (88-108MHz for FM).
We can communicate with submarines at depth. The data rate is poor.In the bits - or at best, tens of bits - per second. Definitely text only!
Radio is "not supposed to work underwater", but we made it work.And the subs using "towed arrays", basically long wires! And the land
This involves ultra-low frequencies and transmitters with four large
diesel generators running to make it work. If we tried to make Wifi
work at the bottom of your swimming pool... that's not going to work.Yes, I have one that I think uses DCF77 - runs for years, genuinely, on
There are general principles involved. The lower the frequency,
the more possible it is to penetrate something.
We use these stations, to make self-calibrating wall clocks.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_VLF_transmitters
WWVB Fort Collins, Colorado, USA 60.0 kHz # Serves North America, reception once a day usually
# Sufficient to calibrate a clock, once a day. 100uV level.
DCF77 Mainflingen, Mainhausen, Germany 77.5 kHz # Each of these transmitters, runs at different power levels
# and some have extensive long-wire antenna systems.
There are some pictures of the clock-works, the ferrite antenna, on
a self calibrating clock. And this works inside the house.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DCF77
Some country systems can calibrate most of the day, othersThough that's more AM radio on MW and SW (shortwave).
rely on "skip" for distant signal reception at night.
Some broadcast TV systems in cottage country, work becauseDoes USA still have some analog TV then?
there are "two hops over water". And I consider it hilarious,
when a grain ship sailing out in the bay... and the analog TV stops
or the picture starts to ripple :-) That's a propagation
effect at a distance. Some people in cities, were receivingThough - originally set up in analogue days, but digital TV uses the
broadcast analog television, because it was reflected off a billboard
on the side of a hill. Productive multi-path. Nobody thought of
replacing that or duplicating it, with a purpose built reflector.
PaulJohn
On 10/22/2025 12:30 PM, Stuart wrote:
wired apart from portable devices such as phones andI have had two computers with WIFI. The HP desktop that was recently replaced had USB, so I was able to connect to the internet either by USB
tablets. Desktop computers don't come with Wi-Fi!
or WIFI.-a My new desktop also has the ability to connect both WIFI or USB.-a In my experience, many desktops and laptops use a card that
combines both Bluetooth and WIFI on the same card. So I would expect any desktop the can connect with Bluetooth will also connect with WIFI.
To me this makes sense as it means one radio sender and receiver, that
can be used for either by changing the radio frequency.
It has been stated else where in this tread that HP printers do not come with a USB port and must be connected wireless.-a-a While that maybe true for some models; in my research to buy my new printer, all HP printers
that I looked at could be connect either wireless or USB port.-a On this model, HP7601, the port is on the front of the printer on the lower left side.
On 2025/10/24 5:56:41, Paul wrote:This was back in analog TV days. I saw the TV start to act up,
Some broadcast TV systems in cottage country, work because
there are "two hops over water". And I consider it hilarious,
when a grain ship sailing out in the bay... and the analog TV stops
or the picture starts to ripple :-) That's a propagation
Does USA still have some analog TV then?
On 2025-10-21 23:34, Paul wrote:
One of the reasons HP resorted to Wifi-only printing, was to force users
to use a smartphone APP or the like, for setup. This would lead the user
through an HP SMART Ink subscription (an unnecessary shipping of HP-
branded
inks or toners which you're billed for and show up in your post box).
This is so hated by some customers forced into it, you can find small
boxes of HP print materials, sitting on the top of the postal boxes,
where the people in my community feel that by not taking the ink home,
it somehow gets you out of your contract.
The result of this slick-willy approach to doing business is:
1) You stop doing business with HP entirely, and tell them to
-a-a-a shove their printers up their ass.
2) You only select printers with backup print paths. Wifi+Eth, Wifi+USB.
Sure, my other-brand printer has Wifi, but it also has USB, and
that's why I felt safe in buying it. If there is a USB port it
means the company wants to do business the proper way, with the
consumer in control and no arm-twisting and slick-willy crap.
-a-a-a Paul
The manuals for both of my Wifi-capable printers wanted me to use the smartphone app to install them, but buried deeply into those manuals,
the last resort, was some kind of statement that you could also install
by first connecting a usb cable.
Of course, none of the manual's methods of installation would work for
me because I'm using Linux, so I didn't really care. I simply used my distro's printer install tool - took about five minutes for each
printer, if that. No mention of "instant Ink" subscriptions, though the manual said they are available. With Linux, *I* am in charge.
Why TWO printers? The printer of my old usb-only Officejet went bad, but
the scanner continued to work for three years. When the scanner finally
quit I went looking for a stand-alone scanner, but quickly found the
most economical way to buy a scanner was with a printer attached, so
that's what I did. I almost never use that as a printer, but I use the scanner often.
BTW, some admittedly brief web research doesn't turn up any HP printers
that are Wifi-only, that don't have a usb port. This leads me to believe that such beasts are the exception, rather than the rule, and are
difficult to find.
On 10/23/2025 1:35 PM, Frank Slootweg wrote:
-a Yes. I forgot to mention that most consumers very likely can't beYou forgot the expense of fishing the cables through the walls and
bothered to pull/mount LAN cables through their house. Much too awkward,
too much work and*why*?
attic, if available.
I had new circuits installed in my house, and know the work of pulling
cable through the house will be several hundered dollars per cable.-a-a I had some electric lines pulled from on side of my house to the garage on
the other side. It was $250 per line.-a-a The third line I planned to put
in was from an existing box to another about four feet up the wall on an open unfinished wall. They wanted $250 for the also, I ended up doing it myself.
Some years before, my brother and I pulled coax for a TV from the garage
to my living room.-a It took the two of us working together over and hour
to finish the job.
I think rather than "not be bothered", a cost analysis of the
performance of the two techniques, would find the Cable looses by a wide margin.
The cost of the cable alone, not counting labor would be several times
more than cost of a good wireless router, and the router would provide access in nearly any part of their house, not just the point where the
cable comes out of the wall.
On Thu, 10/23/2025 6:54 PM, knuttle wrote:
On 10/23/2025 6:16 PM, Paul wrote:
The fire department uses 900MHz. The fire fighter stand near the
elevator core, when communicating between floors.
GPS does not work inside the house (except if you press your gear
right up against the window). That's a microwave frequency.
But AM and FM radio easily penetrate the house shell. You can likely
manage to block that, with foil backed insulation everywhere. but for
a lot of houses, the AM/FM radio works OK. These are lower frequencies
that penetrate materials (88-108MHz for FM).
We can communicate with submarines at depth. The data rate is poor.
Radio is "not supposed to work underwater", but we made it work.
This involves ultra-low frequencies and transmitters with four large
diesel generators running to make it work. If we tried to make Wifi
work at the bottom of your swimming pool... that's not going to work.
Some broadcast TV systems in cottage country, work because
there are "two hops over water". And I consider it hilarious,
when a grain ship sailing out in the bay... and the analog TV stops
or the picture starts to ripple :-) That's a propagation
effect at a distance. Some people in cities, were receiving
broadcast analog television, because it was reflected off a billboard
on the side of a hill. Productive multi-path. Nobody thought of
replacing that or duplicating it, with a purpose built reflector.
I wired a flat in Madrid, using existing tubes designed for phone lines, from sitting room to three bedrooms, and another connection behind the
sofa.
Carlos E.R. wrote:
[snip]
I wired a flat in Madrid, using existing tubes designed for phone
lines, from sitting room to three bedrooms, and another connection
behind the sofa.
I think here in the UK we could learn a lot from Spain.-a The idea of
having tubes in place ready for phone line installation is marvellous.
Do you also have tubes for electrical power cables?-a And ducting for
water pipes?
Perhaps even ducts beside roads for electricity, water, and sewage?-a So there would never be any need to dig up roads to install or repair these?
On 2025-10-24 06:56, Paul wrote:[]
I'm pretty sure it is. The subs would not have the power to reply!We can communicate with submarines at depth. The data rate is poor.
Radio is "not supposed to work underwater", but we made it work.
This involves ultra-low frequencies and transmitters with four large
diesel generators running to make it work. If we tried to make Wifi
work at the bottom of your swimming pool... that's not going to work.
AFAIK it is unidirectional, from land to sub. The sub trails a long wire
behind. They use slow morse.I don't think so now - some very low data rate teletype (almost
But there is related system that work in caves. ELF waves. I saw a
prototype in an electronics magazine long ago.
Some broadcast TV systems in cottage country, work because
there are "two hops over water". And I consider it hilarious,
when a grain ship sailing out in the bay... and the analog TV stops
or the picture starts to ripple :-) That's a propagation
effect at a distance. Some people in cities, were receiving
broadcast analog television, because it was reflected off a billboard
on the side of a hill. Productive multi-path. Nobody thought of
replacing that or duplicating it, with a purpose built reflector.
HAMs used Moon reflection. I think there was a test with a satellite
that was a big metallized balloon.
My Laserjet M209dw has wifi and ethernet, but no usb. I had to
configure it using my phone. And I had the trouble of having to
configure twice, because I needed to find the MAC address in order to associate a fixed address in the router. I use Linux, and I don't want
the printer to have a different IP each week or day.
In retrospect, maybe making the printer print the diagnostic or status
page would print the MAC before configuration. HP makes things
difficult because the printer doesn't have a display, just a big main
led with several colours, and a few tiny leds and buttons.
This printer came with an option for smart "toner" subscription, but
it was not mandatory (EU thing?). The printer may have 3 years and is
still with the original toner, I use it very little.
On 2025-10-27, Carlos E.R. wrote:If by "that" you mean no display, laser printers have traditionally been connected to networks, so the design philosophy of interrogating status remotely was stronger - especially if supported by an IT department, who
My Laserjet M209dw has wifi and ethernet, but no usb. I had to
configure it using my phone. And I had the trouble of having to
configure twice, because I needed to find the MAC address in order to
associate a fixed address in the router. I use Linux, and I don't want>> the printer to have a different IP each week or day.
In retrospect, maybe making the printer print the diagnostic or status>> page would print the MAC before configuration. HP makes things
difficult because the printer doesn't have a display, just a big main
led with several colours, and a few tiny leds and buttons.
This printer came with an option for smart "toner" subscription, but
it was not mandatory (EU thing?). The printer may have 3 years and is
still with the original toner, I use it very little.
... wait, they're doing that in LASER too? I thought it'd be inkjet
only, I mean, that *is* the segment known for overly expensive inkThey need to self-clean from time to time to stop the heads clogging up
cartridges and workflows that tend to waste more ink.
And, yeah, toner easily lasts years for low usage.
On 2025/10/28 1:39:10, Nuno Silva wrote:
On 2025-10-27, Carlos E.R. wrote:
My Laserjet M209dw has wifi and ethernet, but no usb. I had to
configure it using my phone. And I had the trouble of having to
configure twice, because I needed to find the MAC address in order to
associate a fixed address in the router. I use Linux, and I don't want
the printer to have a different IP each week or day.
In retrospect, maybe making the printer print the diagnostic or status
page would print the MAC before configuration. HP makes things
difficult because the printer doesn't have a display, just a big main
led with several colours, and a few tiny leds and buttons.
This printer came with an option for smart "toner" subscription, but
it was not mandatory (EU thing?). The printer may have 3 years and is
still with the original toner, I use it very little.
... wait, they're doing that in LASER too? I thought it'd be inkjet
If by "that" you mean no display,
laser printers have traditionally been
connected to networks, so the design philosophy of interrogating status remotely was stronger - especially if supported by an IT department, who would _prefer_ not to come out to look at it.
On 2025-10-28 13:09, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
On 2025/10/28 1:39:10, Nuno Silva wrote:
On 2025-10-27, Carlos E.R. wrote:
My Laserjet M209dw-a has wifi and ethernet, but no usb. I had to
configure it using my phone. And I had the trouble of having to
configure twice, because I needed to find the MAC address in order to
associate a fixed address in the router. I use Linux, and I don't want >>>> the printer to have a different IP each week or day.
In retrospect, maybe making the printer print the diagnostic or status >>>> page would print the MAC before configuration. HP makes things
difficult because the printer doesn't have a display, just a big main
led with several colours, and a few tiny leds and buttons.
This printer came with an option for smart "toner" subscription, but
it was not mandatory (EU thing?). The printer may have 3 years and is
still with the original toner, I use it very little.
... wait, they're doing that in LASER too? I thought it'd be inkjet
If by "that" you mean no display,
He means toner subscriptions.
Yes, this printer has that, but was optional. I asked the vendor before purchasing it, otherwise I would not have bought it. I don't know if
being in the EU has something to do with it being optional.
laser printers have traditionally been
connected to networks, so the design philosophy of interrogating status
remotely was stronger - especially if supported by an IT department, who
would _prefer_ not to come out to look at it.
My older colour printer, CP1515n has a tiny display and some keys (yes/
Ok, no/cancel, left, right, back). I think I could configure the IP
address there, but that was a decade ago.
My cousin has a much more modern colour laser printer with a better
menu. I seem to recall you could access functions to print from an USB stick, and you have to navigate it. I don't remember if it also has a scanner.
Earlier in this thread there was some discussion about the availability
of HP printers to connect by a USB connection. As said before most HP printers can be connected wireless or by USB. It is possible that when
they look at the printer they do not see the USB plug that has become standard on most computer. (The one about that is about 1/8" by 3/8".)
Many of the HP printers use the less common plug that is shaped like a house. It they have used this type of plug since at least 2000, as it
was on the HP932c printer that I bought in the late 1990's
Earlier in this thread there was some discussion about the availability
of HP printers to connect by a USB connection.-a As said before most HP printers
can be connected wireless or by USB.-a It is possible that when they look at the printer they do not see the USB plug that has become standard on most computer. (The one about that is about 1/8" by 3/8".) Many of the HP printers
use the less common plug that is shaped like a house.-a-a It they have used this type of plug since at least 2000, as it was on the HP932c printer
that I bought in the late 1990's
"Machines that print onto paper" are a fading business: everyone knows that you can buy a
~$100 Brother Whatever and you're good for another 5 years. Hence the ink fracking shenanigans,
lock-in schemes, clear-eyed hatred of own customers, etc."
Paul
On 2025-10-28 13:09, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
On 2025/10/28 1:39:10, Nuno Silva wrote:
On 2025-10-27, Carlos E.R. wrote:
My Laserjet M209dw-a has wifi and ethernet, but no usb. I had to
configure it using my phone. And I had the trouble of having to
configure twice, because I needed to find the MAC address in order to
associate a fixed address in the router. I use Linux, and I don't want >>>> the printer to have a different IP each week or day.
In retrospect, maybe making the printer print the diagnostic or status >>>> page would print the MAC before configuration. HP makes things
difficult because the printer doesn't have a display, just a big main
led with several colours, and a few tiny leds and buttons.
This printer came with an option for smart "toner" subscription, but
it was not mandatory (EU thing?). The printer may have 3 years and is
still with the original toner, I use it very little.
... wait, they're doing that in LASER too? I thought it'd be inkjet
If by "that" you mean no display,
He means toner subscriptions.
Yes, this printer has that, but was optional. I asked the vendor before purchasing it, otherwise I would not have bought it. I don't know if
being in the EU has something to do with it being optional.
laser printers have traditionally been
connected to networks, so the design philosophy of interrogating status
remotely was stronger - especially if supported by an IT department, who
would _prefer_ not to come out to look at it.
My older colour printer, CP1515n has a tiny display and some keys (yes/
Ok, no/cancel, left, right, back). I think I could configure the IP
address there, but that was a decade ago.
My cousin has a much more modern colour laser printer with a better
menu. I seem to recall you could access functions to print from an USB stick, and you have to navigate it. I don't remember if it also has a scanner.
Paul wrote on 10/28/2025 1:38 PM:
-a-a-a-a-a "Machines that print onto paper" are a fading business: everyone >> knows that you can buy a
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a ~$100 Brother Whatever and you're good for another 5 years. >> Hence the ink fracking shenanigans,
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a lock-in schemes, clear-eyed hatred of own customers, etc."
-a-a Paul
I am 100% DONE with any HP, Canon, epson printer.
Brother is marginal, but still the least evil.-a They all follow the
Ferengi rules of acquisition, and are to be despised.-a Brother's
software is the pits, but the printer works OK once you clean everything
up.
My son in law said the desktops and laptops would disappear, however they are still with us.
Earlier in this thread there was some discussion about the
availability of HP printers to connect by a USB connection. As said
before most HP printers can be connected wireless or by USB. It is
possible that when they look at the printer they do not see the USB
plug that has become standard on most computer. (The one about that is
about 1/8" by 3/8".) Many of the HP printers use the less common plug
that is shaped like a house. It they have used this type of plug
since at least 2000, as it was on the HP932c printer that I bought in
the late 1990's
The "house-like" oneis standard, if this is type B we're talking
about, in fact, while I haven't looked at many printers (and scanners
too), and haven't dealt with more recent ones (so maybe there has been
some change owing to USB 3 or type C?), I think I haven't seen such
devices using anything other than a type B socket for a USB connection
to a host computer.
On 2025-10-28, knuttle wrote:
Earlier in this thread there was some discussion about the
availability of HP printers to connect by a USB connection. As said
before most HP printers can be connected wireless or by USB. It is
possible that when they look at the printer they do not see the USB
plug that has become standard on most computer. (The one about that is
about 1/8" by 3/8".) Many of the HP printers use the less common plug
that is shaped like a house. It they have used this type of plug
since at least 2000, as it was on the HP932c printer that I bought in
the late 1990's
The "house-like" one *is* standard, if this is type B we're talking
about, in fact, while I haven't looked at many printers (and scanners
too), and haven't dealt with more recent ones (so maybe there has been
some change owing to USB 3 or type C?), I think I haven't seen such
devices using anything other than a type B socket for a USB connection
to a host computer.
I don't have any USB-C peripherals.
My Laserjet M209dw has wifi and ethernet, but no usb. I had to
configure it using my phone. And I had the trouble of having to
configure twice, because I needed to find the MAC address in order to associate a fixed address in the router. I use Linux, and I don't want
the printer to have a different IP each week or day.
You can buy USB-C to USB-B cables. I'm not going to check, but if one
exists, the other should exist. USB-C to USB-B2 and USB-C to USB-B3.
They pretend here, that only a Mac has a USB-C connector. All my new computers have (one) USB-C connector :-) A token connector to say "yup,
we got one". I don't have *any* USB-C peripherals. And I wouldn't buy a
USB-C peripheral...
until they stop selling garbage (many devices cannot
sustain high I/O rates for very long, making the promise of "speed" a
false promise). If MLC storage devices existed as peripherals,
they could run at wire speed all day long -- now, count how many of
those exist. The number is zero.
Paul--
Paul wrote:
I don't have any USB-C peripherals.
My first type-C device was (RIP) from 2014, I'm trying to have as few type-B/mini-B/micro-B as possible.
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