• Re: And so? (VMS/XDE)

    From Dave Froble@davef@tsoft-inc.com to comp.os.vms on Mon Dec 8 23:57:03 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.vms

    On 12/1/2025 8:49 AM, Simon Clubley wrote:
    On 2025-11-29, Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote:

    Sometimes things don't really change. You count to 10 the same way now as in
    1960. (Trivial example)


    Are you sure ? I thought maths teaching was heading in a new direction
    in multiple parts of your country as shown by this example (which is way
    too close to actually being realistic, especially with the "support" infrastructure from the people around the teacher):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zh3Yz3PiXZw


    Now this is opinion, and really a poor argument. While I detest the verbosity
    in most things, that is my choice, not the problem you claim.


    Back on topic, COBOL is very verbose, but I also hate way too concise languages where the language designers don't even allow words like
    "function" to be spelt out in full. You read code many more times than
    you write it and having cryptic syntax makes that a lot harder to achieve.

    Strongly agree ...

    Something like Ada was designed for readability, and I wish all other languages followed that example.

    Just waiting for the moment when a newcomer designs a new language which
    has syntax resembling TECO... :-)

    Save the world, shoot the idiot before it spreads ...
    --
    David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
    Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com
    DFE Ultralights, Inc.
    170 Grimplin Road
    Vanderbilt, PA 15486
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  • From Dave Froble@davef@tsoft-inc.com to comp.os.vms on Tue Dec 9 00:19:37 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.vms

    On 12/3/2025 9:07 AM, Simon Clubley wrote:

    BTW, I was interested to read about the issues and tradeoffs around
    the stopping of standardised testing during the application process
    in some higher education establishments a few years ago.

    Nothing wrong with tests. They can be helpful. But let me tell you what is wrong with depending on tests. SOME PEOPLE JUST DON'T DO WELL WITH TESTS!

    Case in point. My son always had problems with taking tests. I don't understand it, but that was a problem for him. Does that make him less than those who do well with tests?

    Now he is a NRC licensed reactor operator at a nuclear power station. Yes, there was testing, and it was difficult for him. But testing is not how the job
    is learned. People actually practiced the job under close supervision before they were trusted to do the job. Perhaps still a type of testing.

    Lately, when special operations are required, He is the one called upon, because
    he is trusted to perform the job correctly, over most of the other operators.

    I guess what I'm trying to say is while tests can be helpful, they are not necessarily the only way of determining competence.
    --
    David Froble Tel: 724-529-0450
    Dave Froble Enterprises, Inc. E-Mail: davef@tsoft-inc.com
    DFE Ultralights, Inc.
    170 Grimplin Road
    Vanderbilt, PA 15486
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  • From cross@cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) to comp.os.vms on Wed Dec 10 18:38:39 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.vms

    In article <10h8bgq$k7on$1@dont-email.me>,
    Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote:
    On 12/3/2025 9:07 AM, Simon Clubley wrote:

    BTW, I was interested to read about the issues and tradeoffs around
    the stopping of standardised testing during the application process
    in some higher education establishments a few years ago.

    Nothing wrong with tests. They can be helpful. But let me tell you what is >wrong with depending on tests. SOME PEOPLE JUST DON'T DO WELL WITH TESTS!

    Hear, hear. Tests are _a_ way to measure progress of a group at
    scale, but they're terrible for measuring individual progress.

    Let's be honest: we use tests because we haven't figured out a
    better way to measure relative progress across a group. But
    that doesn't mean that tests are a _good_ way to go about this.

    Case in point. My son always had problems with taking tests. I don't >understand it, but that was a problem for him. Does that make him less than >those who do well with tests?

    Nope.

    Now he is a NRC licensed reactor operator at a nuclear power station. Yes, >there was testing, and it was difficult for him. But testing is not how the job
    is learned. People actually practiced the job under close supervision before >they were trusted to do the job. Perhaps still a type of testing.

    Lately, when special operations are required, He is the one called upon, because
    he is trusted to perform the job correctly, over most of the other operators.

    Good for your son; it sounds like he's doing very well for
    himself.

    I guess what I'm trying to say is while tests can be helpful, they are not >necessarily the only way of determining competence.

    100% this.

    I served in the Marines with a bunch of folks who were
    incredibly smart and talented. A lot of them didn't go to
    college or get a university education; some did, but it was a
    struggle. A lot overcame some seriously hard backgrounds. One
    guy was probably the most intelligent people I've ever met; he
    had no inclination to continue his education, as he much
    preferred working with his hands (I don't know whether he went
    to a trade school after the Marines, though).

    Being in the same room as some of those folks was an incredibly
    humbling and instructive experience about not judging people on
    superficial criteria...like artificial indicators of academic
    performance.

    - Dan C.

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  • From Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?=@ldo@nz.invalid to comp.os.vms on Sun Dec 14 01:37:42 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.vms

    On Sun, 30 Nov 2025 22:18:07 -0000 (UTC), Waldek Hebisch wrote:

    Chris Townley <news@cct-net.co.uk> wrote:

    On 30/11/2025 21:09, Arne Vajh|+j wrote:

    The selling point is the automatic persistence of global variables:

    Why would you want that?

    Think database. MUMPS globals really are a non-relational database. Non-persistent database would be of limited use.

    Quite easy to do in Python. Being able to implement this on top of more general underlying features is how Python is able to keep its core
    language so small.
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  • From =?UTF-8?Q?Arne_Vajh=C3=B8j?=@arne@vajhoej.dk to comp.os.vms on Wed Dec 17 21:19:46 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.vms

    On 11/11/2025 10:50 AM, Arne Vajh|+j wrote:
    On 11/3/2025 8:31 AM, Simon Clubley wrote:
    What are they moving to, and how are they satisfying the extremely high
    constraints both on software and hardware availability, failure
    detection,
    and recovery that z/OS and its underlying hardware provides ?

    z/OS has a unique set of capabilities when it comes to the absolutely
    critical this _MUST_ continue working or the country/company dies area.

    Note that even though z/OS and mainframes generally have a
    good track recording regarding availability, then it is not
    a magic solution - they can also have problems.

    Banks having mainframe problems are rare but far from
    unheard of.

    And speaking of.

    A lot of banking services were down Monday in Denmark.

    Because a bank mainframe was down for 5 hours.

    Both the company and the country survived. :-)

    As often is the case the root cause was simple and
    stupid. A capacity management application took away
    the resources needed to process transactions.

    Arne



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  • From Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?=@ldo@nz.invalid to comp.os.vms on Thu Dec 18 06:47:13 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.vms

    On Wed, 17 Dec 2025 21:19:46 -0500, Arne Vajh|+j wrote:

    Because a bank mainframe was down for 5 hours.

    How many nines reliability are mainframes capable of?
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  • From Niels S. Eliasen@nse@eliasen.co to comp.os.vms on Fri Dec 19 11:16:47 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.vms

    Hi Arne
    I am impressed... :_) where did you read/see this ??

    On 2025-12-18, Arne Vajh|+j <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote:
    On 11/11/2025 10:50 AM, Arne Vajh|+j wrote:
    On 11/3/2025 8:31 AM, Simon Clubley wrote:
    What are they moving to, and how are they satisfying the extremely high
    constraints both on software and hardware availability, failure
    detection,
    and recovery that z/OS and its underlying hardware provides ?

    z/OS has a unique set of capabilities when it comes to the absolutely
    critical this _MUST_ continue working or the country/company dies area.

    Note that even though z/OS and mainframes generally have a
    good track recording regarding availability, then it is not
    a magic solution - they can also have problems.

    Banks having mainframe problems are rare but far from
    unheard of.

    And speaking of.

    A lot of banking services were down Monday in Denmark.

    Because a bank mainframe was down for 5 hours.

    Both the company and the country survived. :-)

    As often is the case the root cause was simple and
    stupid. A capacity management application took away
    the resources needed to process transactions.

    Arne



    --
    kind regards/mvh

    Niels S. Eliasen

    Eliasen Consult
    Oregaardsvaengevej 1
    DK-4720 Pr|ast|+
    Tel/Cell: +45 21779590
    mailto:niels@eliasen.co
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  • From =?UTF-8?Q?Arne_Vajh=C3=B8j?=@arne@vajhoej.dk to comp.os.vms on Fri Dec 19 08:07:05 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.vms

    On 12/19/2025 6:16 AM, Niels S. Eliasen wrote:
    On 2025-12-18, Arne Vajh|+j <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote:
    On 11/11/2025 10:50 AM, Arne Vajh|+j wrote:
    On 11/3/2025 8:31 AM, Simon Clubley wrote:
    What are they moving to, and how are they satisfying the extremely high >>>> constraints both on software and hardware availability, failure
    detection,
    and recovery that z/OS and its underlying hardware provides ?

    z/OS has a unique set of capabilities when it comes to the absolutely
    critical this _MUST_ continue working or the country/company dies area. >>>
    Note that even though z/OS and mainframes generally have a
    good track recording regarding availability, then it is not
    a magic solution - they can also have problems.

    Banks having mainframe problems are rare but far from
    unheard of.

    And speaking of.

    A lot of banking services were down Monday in Denmark.

    Because a bank mainframe was down for 5 hours.

    Both the company and the country survived. :-)

    As often is the case the root cause was simple and
    stupid. A capacity management application took away
    the resources needed to process transactions.

    I am impressed... :_) where did you read/see this ??

    I saw the story on LinkedIn.

    But the company has been very honest about it.

    https://www.jndata.dk/driftsforstyrrelser/

    <quote>
    JN Data har natten igennem arbejdet p|N at finde kerne|Nrsagen til driftsudfaldet p|N vores Mainframe. De f|+rste unders|+gelser tyder p|N, at
    en forkert kommando i JN Datas kapacitetsstyringsv|arkt|+j var
    kerne|Nrsagen til driftsudfaldet. Den forkerte kommando bet|+d, at der
    blev tildelt for lidt kapacitet til at afvikle kundernes transaktioner.
    Som konsekvens deraf blev services som kreditkort samt net- og mobilbank utilg|angelige for JN Datas kunder Jyske Bank, Bankdata, BEC og Nykredit.
    Vi arbejder nu videre med den bagvedliggende |Nrsag til dette for at
    sikre, at en lignende fejl ikke kan opst|N fremadrettet.
    </quote>

    And for those that does not read Danish:

    <quote>
    JN Data has been working through the night to find the root cause of
    the outage on our Mainframe. Initial investigations indicate that an
    incorrect command in JN Data's capacity management tool was the root
    cause of the outage. The incorrect command meant that too little
    capacity was allocated to process customers' transactions. As a result, services such as credit cards and online and mobile banking became
    unavailable for JN Data's customers Jyske Bank, Bankdata, BEC and
    Nykredit. We are now working on the underlying cause of this to ensure
    that a similar error cannot occur in the future.
    </quote>

    I think it has been in CW as well.

    Arne

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  • From =?UTF-8?Q?Arne_Vajh=C3=B8j?=@arne@vajhoej.dk to comp.os.vms on Fri Dec 19 08:53:12 2025
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.vms

    On 12/19/2025 8:07 AM, Arne Vajh|+j wrote:
    And for those that does not read Danish:

    <quote>
    JN Data has been working through the night to find the root cause of
    the outage on our Mainframe. Initial investigations indicate that an incorrect command in JN Data's capacity management tool was the root
    cause of the outage. The incorrect command meant that too little
    capacity was allocated to process customers' transactions. As a result, services such as credit cards and online and mobile banking became unavailable for JN Data's customers Jyske Bank, Bankdata, BEC and
    Nykredit. We are now working on the underlying cause of this to ensure
    that a similar error cannot occur in the future.
    </quote>

    Which is not very technical, but if I translate to VMS in
    a "creative" way:

    <humor>
    mod produser /cpu=00:00:01 /wsmax=10 /wsext=20 /pgflq=100

    nice - look at all that free CPU and memory

    hmm - why are all the phones rinning?
    </humor>

    :-)

    Arne


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