How Charon-AXP Saved a Nuclear Power Plant from Shutdown
https://www.stromasys.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/Tai_Power_vax_case_study_20200622_A4.pdf
Carry on, regardless.
Careful with those Dongles, Eugene...
How Charon-AXP Saved a Nuclear Power Plant from Shutdown
https://www.stromasys.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/Tai_Power_vax_case_study_20200622_A4.pdf
:
:
Bare Metal VMS, VSI? - Quo Vadis...
On Fri, 24 Oct 2025 23:31:05 +1100
Subcommandante XDelta <vlf@star.enet.dec.com> wrote:
How Charon-AXP Saved a Nuclear Power Plant from Shutdown
https://www.stromasys.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/Tai_Power_vax_case_study_20200622_A4.pdf
There is a good chance that VSI VMS-x86-64 was not considered as a
candidate for replacement of original system because original system was
not running on VMS.
Although even more likely scenario is that it was running on VMS, but
source code and/or build process directives of application software
were lost.
On 10/24/2025 8:31 AM, Subcommandante XDelta wrote:
How Charon-AXP Saved a Nuclear Power Plant from Shutdown
https://www.stromasys.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/Tai_Power_vax_case_study_20200622_A4.pdf
Good story.
Eventually they would need to migrate from VMS Alpha to VMS x86-64
though.
But plenty of runway with VSI supporting VMS Alpha 8.4-2Ln until
end of 2035.
The migration to VMS x86-64 may depend on required stuff being
available. A nuclear power plant is one of those customers that
could be using Ada.
Carry on, regardless.
Careful with those Dongles, Eugene...
How Charon-AXP Saved a Nuclear Power Plant from Shutdown
https://www.stromasys.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/Tai_Power_vax_case_study_20200622_A4.pdf
On 10/24/2025 8:49 AM, Arne Vajhoj wrote:
On 10/24/2025 8:31 AM, Subcommandante XDelta wrote:
How Charon-AXP Saved a Nuclear Power Plant from Shutdown
https://www.stromasys.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/Tai_Power_vax_case_study_20200622_A4.pdf
Good story.
Eventually they would need to migrate from VMS Alpha to VMS x86-64
though.
But plenty of runway with VSI supporting VMS Alpha 8.4-2Ln until
end of 2035.
The migration to VMS x86-64 may depend on required stuff being
available. A nuclear power plant is one of those customers that
could be using Ada.
Last I heard some of them are still using PDP-11's. I think that
rules out Ada. :-)
On 10/24/2025 8:31 AM, Subcommandante XDelta wrote:
How Charon-AXP Saved a Nuclear Power Plant from Shutdown
https://www.stromasys.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/Tai_Power_vax_case_study_20200622_A4.pdf
Good story.
Eventually they would need to migrate from VMS Alpha to VMS x86-64
though.
But plenty of runway with VSI supporting VMS Alpha 8.4-2Ln until
end of 2035.
The migration to VMS x86-64 may depend on required stuff being
available. A nuclear power plant is one of those customers that
could be using Ada.
On 2025-10-24, Subcommandante XDelta <vlf@star.enet.dec.com> wrote:
Carry on, regardless.
Careful with those Dongles, Eugene...
How Charon-AXP Saved a Nuclear Power Plant from Shutdown
https://www.stromasys.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/Tai_Power_vax_case_study_20200622_A4.pdf
The word "VMS" is not mentioned once in that document.
Given the obvious real-time monitoring requirements, how do we know this
is not some specialised RTOS ? It could also be some other general purpose OS.
On 2025-10-24, Arne Vajh|+j <arne@vajhoej.dk> wrote:
On 10/24/2025 8:31 AM, Subcommandante XDelta wrote:
How Charon-AXP Saved a Nuclear Power Plant from Shutdown
https://www.stromasys.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/Tai_Power_vax_case_study_20200622_A4.pdf
Good story.
Eventually they would need to migrate from VMS Alpha to VMS x86-64
though.
Are you seeing something I am not ? There's no mention of VMS in
that document.
But plenty of runway with VSI supporting VMS Alpha 8.4-2Ln until
end of 2035.
The migration to VMS x86-64 may depend on required stuff being
available. A nuclear power plant is one of those customers that
could be using Ada.
Elsewhere, in some other company, clueless management could say:
"Just vibe code a solution". :-)
Obviously these people did the right and expected thing, and you would
hope all safety-critical people would, but I can't believe in general
how elsewhere "vibe coding" could actually be a thing instead of getting
you fired for not doing your job properly.
On 10/24/2025 1:13 PM, Simon Clubley wrote:
On 2025-10-24, Subcommandante XDelta <vlf@star.enet.dec.com> wrote:
Carry on, regardless.
Careful with those Dongles, Eugene...
How Charon-AXP Saved a Nuclear Power Plant from Shutdown
https://www.stromasys.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/
Tai_Power_vax_case_study_20200622_A4.pdf
The word "VMS" is not mentioned once in that document.
Given the obvious real-time monitoring requirements, how do we know this
is not some specialised RTOS ? It could also be some other general
purpose OS.
We don't know for sure.
But what OS are supported on Alpha today besides VMS?
Tru64 went out of support in 2012.
And it seems like a case where support does matter.
Arne
On 24/10/2025 18:34, Arne Vajh|+j wrote:
On 10/24/2025 1:13 PM, Simon Clubley wrote:Even NetBSD dropped Alpha support quite a while back
On 2025-10-24, Subcommandante XDelta <vlf@star.enet.dec.com> wrote:
Carry on, regardless.
Careful with those Dongles, Eugene...
How Charon-AXP Saved a Nuclear Power Plant from Shutdown
https://www.stromasys.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/
Tai_Power_vax_case_study_20200622_A4.pdf
The word "VMS" is not mentioned once in that document.
Given the obvious real-time monitoring requirements, how do we know this >>> is not some specialised RTOS ? It could also be some other general
purpose OS.
We don't know for sure.
But what OS are supported on Alpha today besides VMS?
Tru64 went out of support in 2012.
And it seems like a case where support does matter.
On 2025-10-24, Subcommandante XDelta <vlf@star.enet.dec.com> wrote:
Carry on, regardless.
Careful with those Dongles, Eugene...
How Charon-AXP Saved a Nuclear Power Plant from Shutdown
https://www.stromasys.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/Tai_Power_vax_case_study_20200622_A4.pdf
The word "VMS" is not mentioned once in that document.
Given the obvious real-time monitoring requirements, how do we know this
is not some specialised RTOS ? It could also be some other general purpose OS.
On 24/10/2025 18:34, Arne Vajh|+j wrote:
On 10/24/2025 1:13 PM, Simon Clubley wrote:
On 2025-10-24, Subcommandante XDelta <vlf@star.enet.dec.com> wrote:
Carry on, regardless.
Careful with those Dongles, Eugene...
How Charon-AXP Saved a Nuclear Power Plant from Shutdown
https://www.stromasys.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/
Tai_Power_vax_case_study_20200622_A4.pdf
The word "VMS" is not mentioned once in that document.
Given the obvious real-time monitoring requirements, how do we know this >>> is not some specialised RTOS ? It could also be some other general
purpose OS.
We don't know for sure.
But what OS are supported on Alpha today besides VMS?
Tru64 went out of support in 2012.
And it seems like a case where support does matter.
Even NetBSD dropped Alpha support quite a while back
My impression is that vibe coding is not really a thing in
companies for doing IT, but mostly a thing for companies
wanting to sell software/training/AI access to other companies.
Carry on, regardless.
Although even more likely scenario is that it was running on VMS, but
source code and/or build process directives of application software were lost.
The document seems to be uploaded in 2023, but the PDF name indicate
that it could have been written in 2020.
Linux kernel still has support for Alpha (at least for newer Alpha's) I believe.
On 10/24/2025 1:13 PM, Simon Clubley wrote:
On 2025-10-24, Subcommandante XDelta <vlf@star.enet.dec.com> wrote:
Carry on, regardless.
Careful with those Dongles, Eugene...
How Charon-AXP Saved a Nuclear Power Plant from Shutdown
https://www.stromasys.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/Tai_Power_vax_case_study_20200622_A4.pdf
The word "VMS" is not mentioned once in that document.
Given the obvious real-time monitoring requirements, how do we know this
is not some specialised RTOS ? It could also be some other general
purpose OS.
We don't know for sure.
But what OS are supported on Alpha today besides VMS?
Tru64 went out of support in 2012.
And it seems like a case where support does matter.
In article <10dgc4a$2nvpo$1@dont-email.me>,
Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> wrote:
On 2025-10-24, Subcommandante XDelta <vlf@star.enet.dec.com> wrote:
Carry on, regardless.
Careful with those Dongles, Eugene...
How Charon-AXP Saved a Nuclear Power Plant from Shutdown
https://www.stromasys.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/Tai_Power_vax_case_study_20200622_A4.pdf
The word "VMS" is not mentioned once in that document.
Given the obvious real-time monitoring requirements, how do we know this
is not some specialised RTOS ? It could also be some other general purpose OS.
I think that's unlikely.
My read of this was that the Alpha system was used as the
backend for the data collection pipeline, probably handling
overall management of the monitoring data, and possibly hosting
some analysis. That is, the Alphas are the repository of
whatever information is being generated by realtime monitoring
systems, but not taking that data themselves.
My guess would be that they are/were running VMS, but who knows?
On 24/10/2025 18:34, Arne Vajh|+j wrote:
Even NetBSD dropped Alpha support quite a while back
We don't know for sure.
But what OS are supported on Alpha today besides VMS?
Tru64 went out of support in 2012.
And it seems like a case where support does matter.
Arne
On 10/24/2025 1:34 PM, Arne Vajh|+j wrote:
On 10/24/2025 1:13 PM, Simon Clubley wrote:
On 2025-10-24, Subcommandante XDelta <vlf@star.enet.dec.com> wrote:
Carry on, regardless.
Careful with those Dongles, Eugene...
How Charon-AXP Saved a Nuclear Power Plant from Shutdown
https://www.stromasys.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/
Tai_Power_vax_case_study_20200622_A4.pdf
The word "VMS" is not mentioned once in that document.
Given the obvious real-time monitoring requirements, how do we know this >>> is not some specialised RTOS ? It could also be some other general
purpose OS.
We don't know for sure.
But what OS are supported on Alpha today besides VMS?
Tru64 went out of support in 2012.
And it seems like a case where support does matter.
The last mention of the PDP-11 in this kind of work was looking
for people with MACRO-11 experience.-a It would not surprise me
to find out that no commercial OS is involved (possible no OS at
all, just running an application on bare metal),-a A VAX in the
same environment could do the same.
On 2025-10-25 03:35, bill wrote:
On 10/24/2025 1:34 PM, Arne Vajh|+j wrote:
On 10/24/2025 1:13 PM, Simon Clubley wrote:
On 2025-10-24, Subcommandante XDelta <vlf@star.enet.dec.com> wrote:
Carry on, regardless.
Careful with those Dongles, Eugene...
How Charon-AXP Saved a Nuclear Power Plant from Shutdown
https://www.stromasys.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/
Tai_Power_vax_case_study_20200622_A4.pdf
The word "VMS" is not mentioned once in that document.
Given the obvious real-time monitoring requirements, how do we know
this
is not some specialised RTOS ? It could also be some other general
purpose OS.
We don't know for sure.
But what OS are supported on Alpha today besides VMS?
Tru64 went out of support in 2012.
And it seems like a case where support does matter.
The last mention of the PDP-11 in this kind of work was looking
for people with MACRO-11 experience.-a It would not surprise me
to find out that no commercial OS is involved (possible no OS at
all, just running an application on bare metal),-a A VAX in the
same environment could do the same.
You need some PDP-11 OS running in order to use Macro-11. And unless I remember wrong, at least Ontario Hydroelectric was/is running RSX.
On 10/26/2025 6:42 AM, Johnny Billquist wrote:
On 2025-10-25 03:35, bill wrote:
On 10/24/2025 1:34 PM, Arne Vajh|+j wrote:
And it seems like a case where support does matter.
The last mention of the PDP-11 in this kind of work was looking
for people with MACRO-11 experience.-a It would not surprise me
to find out that no commercial OS is involved (possible no OS at
all, just running an application on bare metal),-a A VAX in the
same environment could do the same.
You need some PDP-11 OS running in order to use Macro-11. And unless I
remember wrong, at least Ontario Hydroelectric was/is running RSX.
To do the development maybe.-a But one can create programs in Macro-11
that run all by themselves on bare iron.-a Fig Forth?
On 2025-10-24 19:46, Chris Townley wrote:
On 24/10/2025 18:34, Arne Vajh|+j wrote:
Even NetBSD dropped Alpha support quite a while back
We don't know for sure.
But what OS are supported on Alpha today besides VMS?
Tru64 went out of support in 2012.
And it seems like a case where support does matter.
Arne
Say what? When did NetBSD stopped supporting Alpha? It's still listed on
the webpage, along with VAX (gee, anyone heard of that architecture?).
Yes, Alpha is no longer "Tier 1" at NetBSD, but that is not the same as "dropped support".
https://wiki.netbsd.org/ports/
On 10/24/2025 9:58 AM, Michael S wrote:
On Fri, 24 Oct 2025 23:31:05 +1100
Subcommandante XDelta <vlf@star.enet.dec.com> wrote:
How Charon-AXP Saved a Nuclear Power Plant from Shutdown
https://www.stromasys.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/Tai_Power_vax_case_study_20200622_A4.pdf
There is a good chance that VSI VMS-x86-64 was not considered as a candidate for replacement of original system because original
system was not running on VMS.
Although even more likely scenario is that it was running on VMS,
but source code and/or build process directives of application
software were lost.
A more simple explanation is timing.
VMS x86-64 9.2 became available in 2022.
The document seems to be uploaded in 2023, but the PDF name indicate
that it could have been written in 2020.
From decision is made until successful go live that a vendor
may want to use as a success story there may easily go 2 years
even for a such a relative simple migration.
I don't think VMS x86-64 was available or close to being available
for production, when they had to make the decision.
Arne
My impression is that vibe coding is not really a thing in
companies for doing IT, but mostly a thing for companies
wanting to sell software/training/AI access to other companies.
On 10/24/2025 1:13 PM, Simon Clubley wrote:
On 2025-10-24, Subcommandante XDelta <vlf@star.enet.dec.com> wrote:
Carry on, regardless.
Careful with those Dongles, Eugene...
How Charon-AXP Saved a Nuclear Power Plant from Shutdown
https://www.stromasys.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/
Tai_Power_vax_case_study_20200622_A4.pdf
The word "VMS" is not mentioned once in that document.
Given the obvious real-time monitoring requirements, how do we know this
is not some specialised RTOS ? It could also be some other general
purpose OS.
We don't know for sure.
But what OS are supported on Alpha today besides VMS?
Tru64 went out of support in 2012.
And it seems like a case where support does matter.
On 10/24/2025 8:31 AM, Subcommandante XDelta wrote:
How Charon-AXP Saved a Nuclear Power Plant from Shutdown
https://www.stromasys.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/Tai_Power_vax_case_study_20200622_A4.pdf
Good story.
Eventually they would need to migrate from VMS Alpha to VMS x86-64
though.
But plenty of runway with VSI supporting VMS Alpha 8.4-2Ln until
end of 2035.
The migration to VMS x86-64 may depend on required stuff being
available. A nuclear power plant is one of those customers that
could be using Ada.
Arne
On 10/26/2025 8:35 AM, bill wrote:
On 10/26/2025 6:42 AM, Johnny Billquist wrote:
On 2025-10-25 03:35, bill wrote:
On 10/24/2025 1:34 PM, Arne Vajh|+j wrote:
And it seems like a case where support does matter.
The last mention of the PDP-11 in this kind of work was looking
for people with MACRO-11 experience.-a It would not surprise me
to find out that no commercial OS is involved (possible no OS at
all, just running an application on bare metal),-a A VAX in the
same environment could do the same.
You need some PDP-11 OS running in order to use Macro-11. And unless
I remember wrong, at least Ontario Hydroelectric was/is running RSX.
To do the development maybe.-a But one can create programs in Macro-11
that run all by themselves on bare iron.-a Fig Forth?
Like VAXELN?
In article <10dgc4a$2nvpo$1@dont-email.me>,
Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> wrote:
On 2025-10-24, Subcommandante XDelta <vlf@star.enet.dec.com> wrote:
Carry on, regardless.
Careful with those Dongles, Eugene...
How Charon-AXP Saved a Nuclear Power Plant from Shutdown
https://www.stromasys.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/Tai_Power_vax_case_study_20200622_A4.pdf
The word "VMS" is not mentioned once in that document.
Given the obvious real-time monitoring requirements, how do we know this
is not some specialised RTOS ? It could also be some other general purpose OS.
I think that's unlikely.
My read of this was that the Alpha system was used as the
backend for the data collection pipeline, probably handling
overall management of the monitoring data, and possibly hosting
some analysis. That is, the Alphas are the repository of
whatever information is being generated by realtime monitoring
systems, but not taking that data themselves.
My guess would be that they are/were running VMS, but who knows?
- Dan C.
On 10/26/2025 10:55 AM, Arne Vajh|+j wrote:
On 10/26/2025 8:35 AM, bill wrote:
On 10/26/2025 6:42 AM, Johnny Billquist wrote:
On 2025-10-25 03:35, bill wrote:
On 10/24/2025 1:34 PM, Arne Vajh|+j wrote:
And it seems like a case where support does matter.
The last mention of the PDP-11 in this kind of work was looking
for people with MACRO-11 experience.-a It would not surprise me
to find out that no commercial OS is involved (possible no OS at
all, just running an application on bare metal),-a A VAX in the
same environment could do the same.
You need some PDP-11 OS running in order to use Macro-11. And unless
I remember wrong, at least Ontario Hydroelectric was/is running RSX.
To do the development maybe.-a But one can create programs in Macro-11
that run all by themselves on bare iron.-a Fig Forth?
Like VAXELN?
I doubt VAXELN will run MACRO-11 or that it will run on a PDP-11.
On 10/26/2025 9:56 PM, bill wrote:
On 10/26/2025 10:55 AM, Arne Vajh|+j wrote:
On 10/26/2025 8:35 AM, bill wrote:
On 10/26/2025 6:42 AM, Johnny Billquist wrote:
On 2025-10-25 03:35, bill wrote:
On 10/24/2025 1:34 PM, Arne Vajh|+j wrote:
And it seems like a case where support does matter.
The last mention of the PDP-11 in this kind of work was looking
for people with MACRO-11 experience.-a It would not surprise me
to find out that no commercial OS is involved (possible no OS at
all, just running an application on bare metal),-a A VAX in the
same environment could do the same.
You need some PDP-11 OS running in order to use Macro-11. And unless >>>>> I remember wrong, at least Ontario Hydroelectric was/is running RSX.
To do the development maybe.-a But one can create programs in Macro-11 >>>> that run all by themselves on bare iron.-a Fig Forth?
Like VAXELN?
I doubt VAXELN will run MACRO-11 or that it will run on a PDP-11.
Of course not.
But it sounds like the same deployment model.
My understanding about VAXELN (based on what I have been told - no
personal experience) is that you link the OS into the application
and deploy the application (with embedded OS) directly on
the VAX.
On 10/24/2025 1:34 PM, Arne Vajh|+j wrote:
On 10/24/2025 1:13 PM, Simon Clubley wrote:
On 2025-10-24, Subcommandante XDelta <vlf@star.enet.dec.com> wrote:
Carry on, regardless.
Careful with those Dongles, Eugene...
How Charon-AXP Saved a Nuclear Power Plant from Shutdown
https://www.stromasys.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/
Tai_Power_vax_case_study_20200622_A4.pdf
The word "VMS" is not mentioned once in that document.
Given the obvious real-time monitoring requirements, how do we know this >>> is not some specialised RTOS ? It could also be some other general
purpose OS.
We don't know for sure.
But what OS are supported on Alpha today besides VMS?
Tru64 went out of support in 2012.
And it seems like a case where support does matter.
Did a little googling.
It seems that the last version of VxWorks to support Alpha
was 5.5 released 2002 and EOL 2018.
That was what the net said. I don't know much about VxWorks.
I did not even know that they had supported Alpha.
On 10/24/2025 2:10 PM, Dan Cross wrote:
In article <10dgc4a$2nvpo$1@dont-email.me>,
Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> wrote:
On 2025-10-24, Subcommandante XDelta <vlf@star.enet.dec.com> wrote:
Carry on, regardless.
Careful with those Dongles, Eugene...
How Charon-AXP Saved a Nuclear Power Plant from Shutdown
https://www.stromasys.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/Tai_Power_vax_case_study_20200622_A4.pdf
The word "VMS" is not mentioned once in that document.
Given the obvious real-time monitoring requirements, how do we know this >>> is not some specialised RTOS ? It could also be some other general purpose OS.
I think that's unlikely.
My read of this was that the Alpha system was used as the
backend for the data collection pipeline, probably handling
overall management of the monitoring data, and possibly hosting
some analysis. That is, the Alphas are the repository of
whatever information is being generated by realtime monitoring
systems, but not taking that data themselves.
My guess would be that they are/were running VMS, but who knows?
It is amusing the hoops some are attempting to jump thru to declare it isn't >VMS, when is sure seems VMS is the most likely environment.
:-)
In article <10dmjj5$e6ef$1@dont-email.me>,
Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote:
On 10/24/2025 2:10 PM, Dan Cross wrote:
In article <10dgc4a$2nvpo$1@dont-email.me>,
Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> wrote:
On 2025-10-24, Subcommandante XDelta <vlf@star.enet.dec.com> wrote:
Carry on, regardless.
Careful with those Dongles, Eugene...
How Charon-AXP Saved a Nuclear Power Plant from Shutdown
https://www.stromasys.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/Tai_Power_vax_case_study_20200622_A4.pdf
The word "VMS" is not mentioned once in that document.
Given the obvious real-time monitoring requirements, how do we know this >>>> is not some specialised RTOS ? It could also be some other general purpose OS.
I think that's unlikely.
My read of this was that the Alpha system was used as the
backend for the data collection pipeline, probably handling
overall management of the monitoring data, and possibly hosting
some analysis. That is, the Alphas are the repository of
whatever information is being generated by realtime monitoring
systems, but not taking that data themselves.
My guess would be that they are/were running VMS, but who knows?
It is amusing the hoops some are attempting to jump thru to declare it isn't >>VMS, when is sure seems VMS is the most likely environment.
:-)
Sure seems that way. There are enough breadcrumbs to follow in
the document: when they started mentioning IT staff training and
so on, an RTOS seemed a lot less likely. And if were something
Unix-y, they could _probably_ port to something else that was
similarly Unix-y, but, that doc left out a lot of details, so I
can see why folks want to speculate.
Dan Cross <cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net> wrote:
In article <10dmjj5$e6ef$1@dont-email.me>,
Dave Froble <davef@tsoft-inc.com> wrote:
On 10/24/2025 2:10 PM, Dan Cross wrote:
In article <10dgc4a$2nvpo$1@dont-email.me>,
Simon Clubley <clubley@remove_me.eisner.decus.org-Earth.UFP> wrote:
On 2025-10-24, Subcommandante XDelta <vlf@star.enet.dec.com> wrote: >>>>>> Carry on, regardless.
Careful with those Dongles, Eugene...
How Charon-AXP Saved a Nuclear Power Plant from Shutdown
https://www.stromasys.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/Tai_Power_vax_case_study_20200622_A4.pdf
The word "VMS" is not mentioned once in that document.
Given the obvious real-time monitoring requirements, how do we know this >>>>> is not some specialised RTOS ? It could also be some other general purpose OS.
I think that's unlikely.
My read of this was that the Alpha system was used as the
backend for the data collection pipeline, probably handling
overall management of the monitoring data, and possibly hosting
some analysis. That is, the Alphas are the repository of
whatever information is being generated by realtime monitoring
systems, but not taking that data themselves.
My guess would be that they are/were running VMS, but who knows?
It is amusing the hoops some are attempting to jump thru to declare it isn't
VMS, when is sure seems VMS is the most likely environment.
:-)
Sure seems that way. There are enough breadcrumbs to follow in
the document: when they started mentioning IT staff training and
so on, an RTOS seemed a lot less likely. And if were something
Unix-y, they could _probably_ port to something else that was
similarly Unix-y, but, that doc left out a lot of details, so I
can see why folks want to speculate.
The document does not consider porting as an alternative.
They apparently they wanted to use "the same" system, that
is did not want changes to functionality, so probably there
was some serious obstacle to porting. Most likely, they had
no sources, for example software was developed by an outside
vendor and they only received binaries.
This is what the ICP claims to support:I doubt VAXELN will run MACRO-11 or that it will run on a PDP-11.
My understanding about VAXELN (based on what I have been told - noIt's an SDK but no one calls it that. It would be much easier to
personal experience) is that you link the OS into the application
and deploy the application (with embedded OS) directly on
the VAX.
boot xqa0
It could also be that there are regulatory issues requiring certification of a new platform, whereas virtualizing it is ok; possibly Stromasys had already checked that box.
The document does not consider porting as an alternative.
They apparently they wanted to use "the same" system, that
is did not want changes to functionality, so probably there
was some serious obstacle to porting. Most likely, they had
no sources, for example software was developed by an outside
vendor and they only received binaries.
Arne Vajh|+j <arne@vajhoej.dk> writes:
[snip]
My understanding about VAXELN (based on what I have been told - no
personal experience) is that you link the OS into the application
and deploy the application (with embedded OS) directly on
the VAX.
It's an SDK but no one calls it that. It would be much easier to
understand if they did. One creates an application in C or Pascal. Then
you compile/link it with ELN libraries. Maybe it supports other
languages but the docs mention C and Pascal.
My impression is that vibe coding is not really a thing in
companies for doing IT, but mostly a thing for companies
wanting to sell software/training/AI access to other companies.
A friend who works in IT at a bank has a boss who is all in on
vibe coding. *visceral response*
In article <10dgdqc$2n2kl$1@dont-email.me>, arne@vajhoej.dk (Arne Vajhoj) wrote:
My impression is that vibe coding is not really a thing in
companies for doing IT, but mostly a thing for companies
wanting to sell software/training/AI access to other companies.
It's also popular among people who are trying to become "IT experts" via social media postings, without any actual computer skills.
It's an SDK but no one calls it that. It would be much easier to
understand if they did. One creates an application in C or Pascal. Then
you compile/link it with ELN libraries. Maybe it supports other
languages but the docs mention C and Pascal.
From the host side (one year is wrong for some reason):
$
%%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 18-DEC-2023 20:35:32.35 %%%%%%%%%%%
Message from user DECNET on KUSHAL
DECnet event 0.3, automatic line service
From node 1.12 (KUSHAL), 1-JAN-2041 00:00:00.00
Circuit QNA-0, Load, Requested, Node = 1.16, File = SAMPLE.SYS
Operating system, Ethernet address = AA-00-04-00-10-04
$
%%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 18-DEC-2023 20:35:37.33 %%%%%%%%%%%
Message from user DECNET on KUSHAL
DECnet event 0.3, automatic line service
From node 1.12 (KUSHAL), 1-JAN-2041 00:00:00.00
Circuit QNA-0, Load, Successful, Node = 1.16, File = SAMPLE.SYS
Operating system, Ethernet address = AA-00-04-00-10-04
On 2025-10-27, jayjwa <jayjwa@atr2.ath.cx.invalid> wrote:
%%%%%%%%%%% OPCOM 18-DEC-2023 20:35:37.33 %%%%%%%%%%%
Message from user DECNET on KUSHAL
DECnet event 0.3, automatic line service
From node 1.12 (KUSHAL), 1-JAN-2041 00:00:00.00
Circuit QNA-0, Load, Successful, Node = 1.16, File = SAMPLE.SYS
Operating system, Ethernet address = AA-00-04-00-10-04
This may be because the 15-bit date offset boundary for the
DECnet Phase IV event timestamp (as defined by the specification)
was passed several years ago and therefore the system may be placing
junk in that field. Current VMS itself uses the full 16-bits available,
hence there is no problem on VMS itself.
I came across this when I was probing EVL a few years ago and found that contrary to the specs it was still OK on current VMS systems. I think it
was Rob who made that change to VMS but I can't remember for sure.
On 10/28/2025 09:54, Simon Clubley wrote:
On 2025-10-27, jayjwa <jayjwa@atr2.ath.cx.invalid> wrote:
%%%%%%%%%%%-a OPCOM-a 18-DEC-2023 20:35:37.33-a %%%%%%%%%%%
Message from user DECNET on KUSHAL
DECnet event 0.3, automatic line service
-aFrom node 1.12 (KUSHAL),-a 1-JAN-2041 00:00:00.00
Circuit QNA-0, Load, Successful, Node = 1.16, File = SAMPLE.SYS
Operating system, Ethernet address = AA-00-04-00-10-04
This may be because the 15-bit date offset boundary for the
DECnet Phase IV event timestamp (as defined by the specification)
was passed several years ago and therefore the system may be placing
junk in that field. Current VMS itself uses the full 16-bits available,
hence there is no problem on VMS itself.
I came across this when I was probing EVL a few years ago and found that
contrary to the specs it was still OK on current VMS systems. I think it
was Rob who made that change to VMS but I can't remember for sure.
[EVL]EVLJULIAN.B32
X-4-a-a-a-a RAB0249-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a Robert A. Brooks-a-a-a-a-a-a-a 17-Nov-2022
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a Fix for Jira DV-13/NetSuite 2057 -- "DECnet Phase IV"
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a NICE event date issue"
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a From a customer-sent mail message
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a "Events are time-stamped when they are generated with a
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a 2-byte field holding the number of half julian days
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a since Jan-1 1977. The spec (Network Management 4.0.0,
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a page 170/171) implies that these 2 bytes should be treated
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a as a signed value (0 - 32767) which will overflow on
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a Nov 9th 2021. If the code treats it as unsigned, then we
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a are good for another 44 years."
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a The code in routine EVL$JULIAN appears to treat the
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a relevant word as unsigned, but there is an explicit
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a check such that any date after 1-Nov-2022 will return
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a an error.-a Simply pushing the gating date check into
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a the future allows the date to be formatted and displayed
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a correctly.-a For cuteness, I'm using my 100th birthday of
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a December 20, 2061 as the gating date.-a Yeah, it's not
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a exactly 44 years past 10-Nov-2022, but hey, it's my call
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a to make.
[EVL]EVLJULIAN.B32
X-4 RAB0249 Robert A. Brooks 17-Nov-2022
Fix for Jira DV-13/NetSuite 2057 -- "DECnet Phase IV"
NICE event date issue"
From a customer-sent mail message
"Events are time-stamped when they are generated with a
2-byte field holding the number of half julian days
since Jan-1 1977. The spec (Network Management 4.0.0,
page 170/171) implies that these 2 bytes should be treated
as a signed value (0 - 32767) which will overflow on
Nov 9th 2021. If the code treats it as unsigned, then we
are good for another 44 years."
The code in routine EVL$JULIAN appears to treat the
relevant word as unsigned, but there is an explicit
check such that any date after 1-Nov-2022 will return
an error. Simply pushing the gating date check into
the future allows the date to be formatted and displayed
correctly. For cuteness, I'm using my 100th birthday of
December 20, 2061 as the gating date. Yeah, it's not
exactly 44 years past 10-Nov-2022, but hey, it's my call
to make.
Carry on, regardless.
Careful with those Dongles, Eugene...
How Charon-AXP Saved a Nuclear Power Plant from Shutdown
https://www.stromasys.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/Tai_Power_vax_case_study_20200622_A4.pdf
:
:
Bare Metal VMS, VSI? - Quo Vadis...
Subcommandante XDelta <vlf@star.enet.dec.com> wrote:
Carry on, regardless.
Careful with those Dongles, Eugene...
How Charon-AXP Saved a Nuclear Power Plant from Shutdown
https://www.stromasys.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/Tai_Power_vax_case_study_20200622_A4.pdf
:
:
Bare Metal VMS, VSI? - Quo Vadis...
Back in late 2012 when I was out of work I had accepted (but never actually >started) a job working with VMS at the Limerick, PA, nuclear power plant
then owned by Exelon. They told me that the only application for which
they were using VMS was some sort of long-term health monitoring of the >reactor, rather than controlling it or any safety critical subsystems. My >memory is vague these 13 years later, and I donrCOt remember for certain >whether it was VAX or Alpha, but I do know they werenrCOt planning to migrate >to Integrity (almost certainly a good thing they werenrCOt) but instead to >move it to some other commodity architecture and OS.
(I bailed out because the pay was low, the moving expenses were all on me, >and there was little in the way of decent housing for my family to be had
in the neighborhood. And Limerick at that time struck me as a pretty dismal >place to live or work. Also I think at least some of their software people >were unionized.)
I would have had one Patrick Henry as my supervisor. That was really his >name.
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