• Re: Kewl. Common Desktop Environment 2.5.3 Released

    From Gremlin@nobody@haph.org to comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.misc on Tue Feb 10 03:37:50 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    c186282 <c186282@nnada.net>
    news:JzCdnUUVx_nl1aT0nZ2dnZfqn_GdnZ2d@giganews.com Wed, 10 Dec 2025
    10:16:26 GMT in comp.os.linux.advocacy, wrote:

    On 12/10/25 04:30, Marc Haber wrote:
    Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> wrote:
    Because the "tools" are totally unnecessary.

    Who are you to tell others what they should be using and what they
    find useful?

    What "tools" can a DE offer that cannot be provided by
    various CLI or other software?

    I use KDE and I like for example that I can click on URLs in text
    windows and then get a popup whether I want to open that one in the
    browser. I like that I have a graphical frontend to choose networks
    and bring up and down my various VPN links. And I like that most of my
    software looks similar to each other and that I have some settings
    that have the same effect on the majority of my programs.

    Answer: None.

    That's your opinion. Mark it as such.

    Also, the DE requires an integrated software environment
    that adds both bloat and insecurity. To link all the
    DE applications together requires constantly running
    "services" and that, IMO, is not a good idea and a complete
    waste of computing resources.

    Thankfully we nowadays have computers that are so vastly powerful that
    it doesn't matter how "fat" our desktops are. The machines we use are
    powerful enough to cater for all that "coporate malware" that is being
    in use to make Windows in the megacorps manageable and reasonably
    secure. Our desktops might be less secure than they were in the
    1990ies, but we're still vastly more secure than all those Windows
    boxes that are the norm of computer usage.

    And, once a current browser is running, the memory footprint of KDE
    compared with "frugal" desktops as lxfe or xfce doesn't matter any
    more anyway.

    You are an anonymous person who is still stuck in the 1990ies. That's
    your prerogative but you should not be running around shouting "YOU'RE
    ALL WRONG AND MY WAY IS THE ONLY RIGHT ONE", that's ridiculous.

    You LIKE KDE ??? May as well just buy Win12 and
    all of Bill's rip-off user-hating universe :-)

    I enjoyed using KDE on Mint 17.3. I've been using XFCE since I distro
    hopped to MXLinux a few years ago. KDE spoiled me with the eye candy. And Dolphin rocked as a file manager. Thunar is a sad joke by comparison.

    Me, gimme LXDE ... JUST enough GUI. Snappy. No BS.
    Kinda like Win2K.

    Maybe it's the hardware we're running? I found KDE to be very snappy on an Intel core two duo (old gear by todays standards). I have no doubt it
    would be snappy as frak on this rig. It's a monster by comparison. Acer
    Nitro 5 using an i7.

    And yes, that stuff DOES still matter ... and not
    everybody is running an i9 or equiv. Lots stick
    with rPIs and want to get the most from them. My
    own New Laptop is i3 ..... runs cool, long battery
    life, not a fan of high-rez video games, crappy
    net bandwidth.

    I'm not a gamer either, unless you count an occasional DOS game via
    DOSBOX-X (it's a great port btw if you use the original one) and various
    Atari 2600 and NES roms. I've got all of the roms for both. I grew up with those consoles and using them, even via emulation brings back some good memories and fun I had playing those old games. I still love to play
    Asteroids and Missile command. Was never really a pac man person,but, I've
    got those roms too.

    Oh, and my computing perspective is more 1975 ...
    efficiency, tight code, to-the-point. Ever
    programmed a PDP-11 with that newfangled 'C'
    language ? Just don't drop yer stack of
    punch-cards :-)

    You've got a few years on me. :) I've always believed in writing tight and efficient code whenever possible. I'd often use assembler to achieve those results. Or, ASIC or C mixed with asm or interrupt calls depending on my
    mood at the time.

    The tech may be dead ... but the PERSPECTIVE
    lives on, for good reason.

    Understood.
    --
    Liar, lawyer; mirror show me, what's the difference?
    Kangaroo done hung
    the guilty with the innocent
    Liar, lawyer; mirror for ya', what's the
    difference?
    Kangaroo be stoned. He's guilty as the government

    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Gremlin@nobody@haph.org to comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.misc on Tue Feb 10 03:37:53 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    Farley Flud <ff@linux.rocks> news:pan$1edb7$c7cd84af$ca259fb5$ad601f48@linux.rocks Wed, 10 Dec 2025
    12:18:30 GMT in comp.os.linux.advocacy, wrote:

    On Wed, 10 Dec 2025 05:16:26 -0500, c186282 wrote:


    The tech may be dead ... but the PERSPECTIVE
    lives on, for good reason.


    Lives on? I am not so sure.

    "Keep it simple, stupid" should be the GNU/Linux mantra
    but that philosophy seems quite foreign to both users and
    developers alike.

    The KISS principle. I tend to follow it when writing code as well as when designing gear.

    Of course, the plebes will neither notice nor care.
    They will keep on pointing and clicking within their
    glitzy DEs while sipping their "Super Water" (at $20
    per pint) and basking in their $800 Chinese sneakers.
    Who needs dope when there is delusion?

    I have no issues with CLI - I grew up on CLI based systems. That said, I
    don't have a problem with DE either. I especially liked KDE for all the
    eye candy. XFCE is okay, but it's not KDE. Dolphin is a much better file manager than Thunar, imo.
    --
    Liar, lawyer; mirror show me, what's the difference?
    Kangaroo done hung
    the guilty with the innocent
    Liar, lawyer; mirror for ya', what's the
    difference?
    Kangaroo be stoned. He's guilty as the government

    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Gremlin@nobody@haph.org to comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.misc on Tue Feb 10 03:37:54 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> news:20251210085823.00007aa1@gmail.com Wed, 10 Dec 2025 16:58:23 GMT in comp.os.linux.advocacy, wrote:

    On Wed, 10 Dec 2025 10:30:19 +0100
    Marc Haber <mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us> wrote:

    Thankfully we nowadays have computers that are so vastly powerful that
    it doesn't matter how "fat" our desktops are.

    And, once a current browser is running, the memory footprint of KDE
    compared with "frugal" desktops as lxfe or xfce doesn't matter any
    more anyway.

    Hard disagree. It's bad enough that modern websites are as corpulent as they've become; I don't need everything *else* in my system infected by
    the same mentality.

    I agree with you concerning the modern websites. I'm gobsmacked at how some are laid out and what my browser has to do to render it for me. Especially some of the official websites for some of the bands I like.

    Nickelback for example has a monster. This machine brings it up nice and quick; but my other rigs take a bit longer and it's not nice and snappy. Granted, they are various degrees of older technology.. but, I digress.

    (One day Moore's Law will hit the wall with pesky real-world physics constraints, and we'll stop getting "easy" exponential drops in $/bit. That'll be a *real* interesting time...)

    That it will. I'm,not quite sure if it's something I'm looking forward to or not though. :)
    --
    Liar, lawyer; mirror show me, what's the difference?
    Kangaroo done hung the guilty with the innocent
    Liar, lawyer; mirror for ya', what's the difference?
    Kangaroo be stoned. He's guilty as the government

    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From rbowman@bowman@montana.com to comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.misc on Tue Feb 10 04:35:26 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On Tue, 10 Feb 2026 03:37:53 -0000 (UTC), Gremlin wrote:

    I have no issues with CLI - I grew up on CLI based systems. That said, I don't have a problem with DE either. I especially liked KDE for all the
    eye candy. XFCE is okay, but it's not KDE. Dolphin is a much better file manager than Thunar, imo.

    I've been living with Ubuntu for a couple of years. Not a match made in
    heaven but it at least has a taskbar, panel, dock, or whatever you want to call it.

    I was messing around with a VM on another machine and loaded openSUSE Leap
    16 with GNOME. As we used to say, that sucks green donkey dicks. Delete
    VM, reinstall with the KDE DE. The host box is Fedora/KDE so they look
    pretty much the same.

    I briefly had Mint with Xfce. That's got some tweaks too and didn't look
    like Xfce on my Debian work box.
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From rbowman@bowman@montana.com to comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.misc on Tue Feb 10 04:40:02 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On Tue, 10 Feb 2026 03:37:50 -0000 (UTC), Gremlin wrote:

    You've got a few years on me. I've always believed in writing tight and efficient code whenever possible. I'd often use assembler to achieve
    those results. Or, ASIC or C mixed with asm or interrupt calls depending
    on my mood at the time.

    https://www.theregister.com/2026/02/09/compilers_undermine_encryption/

    Interesting article. The compiler optimizes away the carefully crafted
    scheme to prevent password hacking by seeing which character it fails on.

    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?=@ldo@nz.invalid to comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.misc on Tue Feb 10 05:32:14 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On Tue, 10 Feb 2026 03:37:53 -0000 (UTC), Gremlin wrote:

    Dolphin is a much better file manager than Thunar, imo.

    KDE used to offer Konqueror as their all-singing, all-dancing
    universal browser for files, websites, man pages -- just about
    everything. And it still does: just give it a suitable URL, and
    it will figure out what to do.

    But it seems users want a conventional file manager, like theyrCOre
    accustomed to on other GUIs, and they consider the extra functionality
    to be a bug somehow, and not a feature. So the KDE folks had to oblige
    with Dolphin.
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From c186282@c186282@nnada.net to comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.misc on Tue Feb 10 02:31:39 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    Why is it that "Common Desktop" reminds me
    too much of M$/Apple ? :-)

    Screw 'common' ...

    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Joel W. Crump@joelcrump@gmail.com to comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.misc on Tue Feb 10 03:20:47 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 2/10/26 2:31 AM, c186282 wrote:

    Why is it that "Common Desktop" reminds me
    too much of M$/Apple ?-a :-)

    Screw 'common' ...


    I use Cinnamon on Debian, it's the greatest, it still puts the taskbar
    buttons left-justified, I keep seeing Mint screenshots where they've
    copied Win11's centering default (I changed that in Win11, right away).
    It's got the visual and tactile advantages of Windows, but is Linux.
    --
    Joel W. Crump
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Carlos E. R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc on Tue Feb 10 11:41:22 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 2026-02-10 05:35, rbowman wrote:
    I was messing around with a VM on another machine and loaded openSUSE Leap
    16 with GNOME. As we used to say, that sucks green donkey dicks. Delete
    VM, reinstall with the KDE DE. The host box is Fedora/KDE so they look
    pretty much the same.

    Why reinstall? Just use the package manager and install plasma, remove
    gnome if you wish.
    --
    Cheers,
    Carlos E.R.
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From The Natural Philosopher@tnp@invalid.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc on Tue Feb 10 12:55:06 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 10/02/2026 10:41, Carlos E. R. wrote:
    On 2026-02-10 05:35, rbowman wrote:
    I was messing around with a VM on another machine and loaded openSUSE
    Leap
    16 with GNOME. As we used to say, that sucks green donkey dicks. Delete
    VM, reinstall with the KDE DE. The host box is Fedora/KDE so they look
    pretty much the same.

    Why reinstall? Just use the package manager and install plasma, remove
    gnome if you wish.

    That does not always result in a clean install.

    deleting a test VM is trivially easy too.
    --
    Those who want slavery should have the grace to name it by its proper
    name. They must face the full meaning of that which they are advocating
    or condoning; the full, exact, specific meaning of collectivism, of its logical implications, of the principles upon which it is based, and of
    the ultimate consequences to which these principles will lead. They must
    face it, then decide whether this is what they want or not.

    Ayn Rand.

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  • From Carlos E. R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc on Tue Feb 10 14:09:25 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 2026-02-10 13:55, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 10/02/2026 10:41, Carlos E. R. wrote:
    On 2026-02-10 05:35, rbowman wrote:
    I was messing around with a VM on another machine and loaded openSUSE
    Leap
    16 with GNOME. As we used to say, that sucks green donkey dicks. Delete
    VM, reinstall with the KDE DE. The host box is Fedora/KDE so they look
    pretty much the same.

    Why reinstall? Just use the package manager and install plasma, remove
    gnome if you wish.

    That does not always result in a clean install.

    deleting a test VM is trivially easy too.

    openSUSE is designed so that you can install any desktop. Even all of
    them at the same time.
    --
    Cheers,
    Carlos E.R.
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From The Natural Philosopher@tnp@invalid.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc on Tue Feb 10 13:36:22 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 10/02/2026 13:09, Carlos E. R. wrote:
    On 2026-02-10 13:55, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 10/02/2026 10:41, Carlos E. R. wrote:
    On 2026-02-10 05:35, rbowman wrote:
    I was messing around with a VM on another machine and loaded
    openSUSE Leap
    16 with GNOME. As we used to say, that sucks green donkey dicks. Delete >>>> VM, reinstall with the KDE DE. The host box is Fedora/KDE so they look >>>> pretty much the same.

    Why reinstall? Just use the package manager and install plasma,
    remove gnome if you wish.

    That does not always result in a clean install.

    deleting a test VM is trivially easy too.

    openSUSE is designed so that you can install any desktop. Even all of
    them at the same time.

    But will it delete all the clag?
    I've often had major software changes fail where a fresh install does not
    --
    "Strange as it seems, no amount of learning can cure stupidity, and
    higher education positively fortifies it."

    - Stephen Vizinczey


    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Carlos E. R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc on Tue Feb 10 14:51:27 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 2026-02-10 14:36, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 10/02/2026 13:09, Carlos E. R. wrote:
    On 2026-02-10 13:55, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 10/02/2026 10:41, Carlos E. R. wrote:
    On 2026-02-10 05:35, rbowman wrote:
    I was messing around with a VM on another machine and loaded
    openSUSE Leap
    16 with GNOME. As we used to say, that sucks green donkey dicks.
    Delete
    VM, reinstall with the KDE DE. The host box is Fedora/KDE so they look >>>>> pretty much the same.

    Why reinstall? Just use the package manager and install plasma,
    remove gnome if you wish.

    That does not always result in a clean install.

    deleting a test VM is trivially easy too.

    openSUSE is designed so that you can install any desktop. Even all of
    them at the same time.

    But will it delete all the clag?
    I've often had major software changes fail where a fresh install does not

    There is a missing feature which is deleting a pattern. There is a functionality to remove dependencies when removing a package, though.-i
    (in myrlyn).

    However, you can simply switch the greeter and that will stop loading libraries from the other desktop, before starting the desktop.
    --
    Cheers,
    Carlos E.R.
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Marc Haber@mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us to comp.os.linux.misc on Tue Feb 10 15:20:31 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
    On 2026-02-10 13:55, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 10/02/2026 10:41, Carlos E. R. wrote:
    On 2026-02-10 05:35, rbowman wrote:
    I was messing around with a VM on another machine and loaded openSUSE >>>> Leap
    16 with GNOME. As we used to say, that sucks green donkey dicks. Delete >>>> VM, reinstall with the KDE DE. The host box is Fedora/KDE so they look >>>> pretty much the same.

    Why reinstall? Just use the package manager and install plasma, remove
    gnome if you wish.

    That does not always result in a clean install.

    deleting a test VM is trivially easy too.

    openSUSE is designed so that you can install any desktop. Even all of
    them at the same time.

    So is Debian and Fedora. But I would recommend doing such experiments
    at least with a clean account. I have experienced cases where a tested
    new Desktop Environment left settings in ~ that also influenced the
    behavior of my usual Desktop Environment. Getting rid of that
    influence was a major hassle. I would believe that this could happen
    on any distribution.

    Doing such experiments in VMs has the advantage that your usual
    account and your usual desktop is not only safe, but also normally
    available while you do the experimentation.

    And, a test VM is easy to set up. If one finds that this is needed
    frequently, I'd recommend installing a test VM, taking a snapshot,
    doing experiments and then just resetting to the snapshot. Keeping
    that test VM current is work, so if such experiments only happen like
    once a year it might be the wise decision to just reinstall.

    Greetings
    Marc
    -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Marc Haber | " Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header Rhein-Neckar, DE | Beginning of Wisdom " |
    Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fon: *49 6224 1600402
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Marc Haber@mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us to comp.os.linux.misc on Tue Feb 10 15:21:18 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
    However, you can simply switch the greeter and that will stop loading >libraries from the other desktop, before starting the desktop.

    Dotfiles left around by the other desktop will still be there. And
    probably be used.

    Greetings
    Marc
    -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Marc Haber | " Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header Rhein-Neckar, DE | Beginning of Wisdom " |
    Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fon: *49 6224 1600402
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From rbowman@bowman@montana.com to comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.misc on Tue Feb 10 19:34:53 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On Tue, 10 Feb 2026 05:32:14 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence DrCOOliveiro wrote:

    KDE used to offer Konqueror as their all-singing, all-dancing universal browser for files, websites, man pages -- just about everything. And it
    still does: just give it a suitable URL, and it will figure out what to
    do.

    I've been running Fedora/KDE for some time and recently loaded openSUSE
    leap 16/KDE in a VM. Neither has Konqueror even though they do have Konversation, an IRC client.

    The EndeavourOS/KDE laptop has neither but it's a fairly lightweight KDE installation.

    It's been a while but it was on openSUSE 13.2 and wasn't very good. My browsers of preference are Brave from the chromium codebase and Librewolf
    from mozilla's so I don't miss it.
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From rbowman@bowman@montana.com to comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.misc on Tue Feb 10 19:38:27 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On Tue, 10 Feb 2026 03:20:47 -0500, Joel W. Crump wrote:

    I use Cinnamon on Debian, it's the greatest, it still puts the taskbar buttons left-justified, I keep seeing Mint screenshots where they've
    copied Win11's centering default (I changed that in Win11, right away).
    It's got the visual and tactile advantages of Windows, but is Linux.

    I haven't done any configuration so Linux Mint Cinnamon 22.3 left
    justifies the icons on the panel by default.
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?=@ldo@nz.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc on Tue Feb 10 19:53:11 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On Tue, 10 Feb 2026 15:21:18 +0100, Marc Haber wrote:

    Dotfiles left around by the other desktop will still be there. And
    probably be used.

    That only works because of common standards!
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From rbowman@bowman@montana.com to comp.os.linux.misc on Tue Feb 10 20:01:49 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On Tue, 10 Feb 2026 11:41:22 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:

    On 2026-02-10 05:35, rbowman wrote:
    I was messing around with a VM on another machine and loaded openSUSE
    Leap 16 with GNOME. As we used to say, that sucks green donkey dicks.
    Delete VM, reinstall with the KDE DE. The host box is Fedora/KDE so
    they look pretty much the same.

    Why reinstall? Just use the package manager and install plasma, remove
    gnome if you wish.

    Because I have the offline iso. Delete the old VM and select KDE for the
    new installation and it doesn't have to phone home. The only thing I'd installed on the GNOME version was Vim, so it was no big deal.

    The offline iso also has Xfce but my preference is KDE. I used to use SUSE because it was KDE when other distros tended to be GNOME. GNOME 2 on Red
    Hat Linux wasn't too bad. GNOME 3 might be acceptable if you could figure
    out the extensions but I'm not into 'ricing' a DE. Just a taskbar with the stuff I use would probably be good enough but I couldn't get past the
    stupid Windows 8 (MacOS?) look.
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From rbowman@bowman@montana.com to comp.os.linux.misc on Tue Feb 10 20:26:23 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On Tue, 10 Feb 2026 12:55:06 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    On 10/02/2026 10:41, Carlos E. R. wrote:
    On 2026-02-10 05:35, rbowman wrote:
    I was messing around with a VM on another machine and loaded openSUSE
    Leap 16 with GNOME. As we used to say, that sucks green donkey dicks.
    Delete VM, reinstall with the KDE DE. The host box is Fedora/KDE so
    they look pretty much the same.

    Why reinstall? Just use the package manager and install plasma, remove
    gnome if you wish.

    That does not always result in a clean install.

    deleting a test VM is trivially easy too.

    I forget the distro but it started with a GNOME2 DE and I added KDE. It
    sort of worked but it was a little fragile when updating and there were
    some strange effects. Even with i3 on top of Cinnamon and sway on top of
    KDE I'm careful about invoking GUIs from the other DE.

    With an offline iso creating a new VM is easy. That was a learning
    experience too. The openSUSE iso is 4.2 GB, too big to copy to a
    thumbdrive with the default vfat format so I had to format it to exfat. Neither Endeavour or LM are that big.
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From rbowman@bowman@montana.com to comp.os.linux.misc on Tue Feb 10 20:27:16 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On Tue, 10 Feb 2026 14:09:25 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:

    On 2026-02-10 13:55, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 10/02/2026 10:41, Carlos E. R. wrote:
    On 2026-02-10 05:35, rbowman wrote:
    I was messing around with a VM on another machine and loaded openSUSE
    Leap 16 with GNOME. As we used to say, that sucks green donkey dicks.
    Delete VM, reinstall with the KDE DE. The host box is Fedora/KDE so
    they look pretty much the same.

    Why reinstall? Just use the package manager and install plasma, remove
    gnome if you wish.

    That does not always result in a clean install.

    deleting a test VM is trivially easy too.

    openSUSE is designed so that you can install any desktop. Even all of
    them at the same time.

    Perhaps. My experience is that can get weird and I prefer not to.
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From rbowman@bowman@montana.com to comp.os.linux.misc on Tue Feb 10 20:32:08 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On Tue, 10 Feb 2026 15:20:31 +0100, Marc Haber wrote:

    So is Debian and Fedora. But I would recommend doing such experiments at least with a clean account. I have experienced cases where a tested new Desktop Environment left settings in ~ that also influenced the behavior
    of my usual Desktop Environment. Getting rid of that influence was a
    major hassle. I would believe that this could happen on any
    distribution.

    That's my experience -- it *mostly* works. I didn't mind experimenting
    with Xfce on a LM MATE installation since I planned to go to a fresh
    Cinnamon install. Even with i3 I found that starting MATE GUIs got into
    some strange area fixed by rebooting.

    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Carlos E. R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc on Tue Feb 10 22:28:25 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 2026-02-10 15:21, Marc Haber wrote:
    "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
    However, you can simply switch the greeter and that will stop loading
    libraries from the other desktop, before starting the desktop.

    Dotfiles left around by the other desktop will still be there. And
    probably be used.

    Not if the programs that used them are gone, or you don't run them.
    --
    Cheers,
    Carlos E.R.
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Carlos E. R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc on Tue Feb 10 23:00:23 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 2026-02-10 21:26, rbowman wrote:
    On Tue, 10 Feb 2026 12:55:06 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    On 10/02/2026 10:41, Carlos E. R. wrote:
    On 2026-02-10 05:35, rbowman wrote:
    I was messing around with a VM on another machine and loaded openSUSE
    Leap 16 with GNOME. As we used to say, that sucks green donkey dicks.
    Delete VM, reinstall with the KDE DE. The host box is Fedora/KDE so
    they look pretty much the same.

    Why reinstall? Just use the package manager and install plasma, remove
    gnome if you wish.

    That does not always result in a clean install.

    deleting a test VM is trivially easy too.

    I forget the distro but it started with a GNOME2 DE and I added KDE. It
    sort of worked but it was a little fragile when updating and there were
    some strange effects. Even with i3 on top of Cinnamon and sway on top of
    KDE I'm careful about invoking GUIs from the other DE.

    With an offline iso creating a new VM is easy. That was a learning
    experience too. The openSUSE iso is 4.2 GB, too big to copy to a
    thumbdrive with the default vfat format so I had to format it to exfat. Neither Endeavour or LM are that big.

    Why copy? I don't understand. The openSUSE isos are intended to be
    "burned", they contain their own formatting and partitioning.

    dd if=isofile of=/dev/sdX bs=16M status=progress
    --
    Cheers,
    Carlos E.R.
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From rbowman@bowman@montana.com to comp.os.linux.misc on Wed Feb 11 00:40:12 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On Tue, 10 Feb 2026 23:00:23 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:

    Why copy? I don't understand. The openSUSE isos are intended to be
    "burned", they contain their own formatting and partitioning.

    dd if=isofile of=/dev/sdX bs=16M status=progress

    Read up on virt-manager and QEMU/KVM.

    Why did I copy it? I downloaded the iso at the library onto a 11" netbook because that is convenient to carry around. With 4GB of RAM it isn't
    exactly a good choice for a VM. I could have transferred it to the target machine with sftp, but if I put it on a thumb drive it was one and done if
    I wanted to install a VM on one of the other boxes.

    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From c186282@c186282@nnada.net to comp.os.linux.misc on Tue Feb 10 22:51:10 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 2/10/26 08:09, Carlos E. R. wrote:
    On 2026-02-10 13:55, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 10/02/2026 10:41, Carlos E. R. wrote:
    On 2026-02-10 05:35, rbowman wrote:
    I was messing around with a VM on another machine and loaded
    openSUSE Leap
    16 with GNOME. As we used to say, that sucks green donkey dicks. Delete >>>> VM, reinstall with the KDE DE. The host box is Fedora/KDE so they look >>>> pretty much the same.

    Why reinstall? Just use the package manager and install plasma,
    remove gnome if you wish.

    That does not always result in a clean install.

    deleting a test VM is trivially easy too.

    openSUSE is designed so that you can install any desktop. Even all of
    them at the same time.

    The user was saying, and is kind-of correct, that
    add-on environments don't always fully/properly
    install and may require a lot of fucking around.
    If selected DURING initial install the results
    are better.

    IF you don't have a lot of time vested in the VM
    then it CAN be easier/faster to just zap it and
    create a new one.

    As for Gnome - DOES suck green donkey dicks - and
    KDE ... hate 'em both. XFCE or LXDE for me ! JUST
    enough, no bullshit or excess eye-candy.

    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From The Natural Philosopher@tnp@invalid.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc on Wed Feb 11 10:28:02 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc


    On 10/02/2026 21:28, Carlos E. R. wrote:
    On 2026-02-10 15:21, Marc Haber wrote:
    "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
    However, you can simply switch the greeter and that will stop loading
    libraries from the other desktop, before starting the desktop.

    Dotfiles left around by the other desktop will still be there. And
    probably be used.

    Not if the programs that used them are gone, or you don't run them.

    An interesting case of similar is when I cloned the home directory of an
    x86 machine onto a PI.

    Desktop icons referring to nonexistent programs remained in place
    --
    Climate Change: Socialism wearing a lab coat.

    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Carlos E. R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc on Wed Feb 11 11:50:25 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 2026-02-11 04:51, c186282 wrote:
    On 2/10/26 08:09, Carlos E. R. wrote:
    On 2026-02-10 13:55, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 10/02/2026 10:41, Carlos E. R. wrote:
    On 2026-02-10 05:35, rbowman wrote:
    I was messing around with a VM on another machine and loaded
    openSUSE Leap
    16 with GNOME. As we used to say, that sucks green donkey dicks.
    Delete
    VM, reinstall with the KDE DE. The host box is Fedora/KDE so they look >>>>> pretty much the same.

    Why reinstall? Just use the package manager and install plasma,
    remove gnome if you wish.

    That does not always result in a clean install.

    deleting a test VM is trivially easy too.

    openSUSE is designed so that you can install any desktop. Even all of
    them at the same time.

    -a The user was saying, and is kind-of correct, that
    -a add-on environments don't always fully/properly
    -a install and may require a lot of fucking around.
    -a If selected DURING initial install the results
    -a are better.

    -a IF you don't have a lot of time vested in the VM
    -a then it CAN be easier/faster to just zap it and
    -a create a new one.

    I have several desktops installed in most of my machines, and I don't
    notice ill effects from that.


    -a As for Gnome - DOES suck green donkey dicks - and
    -a KDE ... hate 'em both. XFCE or LXDE for me ! JUST
    -a enough, no bullshit or excess eye-candy.


    Wow, hate... I can not ascribe such strong sentiments to any desktop.
    --
    Cheers,
    Carlos E.R.
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Carlos E. R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.misc on Wed Feb 11 11:55:29 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 2026-02-10 20:34, rbowman wrote:
    On Tue, 10 Feb 2026 05:32:14 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence DrCOOliveiro wrote:

    KDE used to offer Konqueror as their all-singing, all-dancing universal
    browser for files, websites, man pages -- just about everything. And it
    still does: just give it a suitable URL, and it will figure out what to
    do.

    I've been running Fedora/KDE for some time and recently loaded openSUSE
    leap 16/KDE in a VM. Neither has Konqueror even though they do have Konversation, an IRC client.

    No konqueror? That's strange, because openSUSE has KDE3 still maintained.
    --
    Cheers,
    Carlos E.R.
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Carlos E. R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc on Wed Feb 11 12:06:16 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 2026-02-11 11:28, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    On 10/02/2026 21:28, Carlos E. R. wrote:
    On 2026-02-10 15:21, Marc Haber wrote:
    "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
    However, you can simply switch the greeter and that will stop loading
    libraries from the other desktop, before starting the desktop.

    Dotfiles left around by the other desktop will still be there. And
    probably be used.

    Not if the programs that used them are gone, or you don't run them.

    An interesting case of similar is when I cloned the home directory of an
    x86 machine onto a PI.

    Desktop icons referring to nonexistent programs remained in place


    So? :-)
    --
    Cheers,
    Carlos E.R.
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From The Natural Philosopher@tnp@invalid.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc on Wed Feb 11 12:15:11 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 11/02/2026 11:06, Carlos E. R. wrote:
    On 2026-02-11 11:28, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    On 10/02/2026 21:28, Carlos E. R. wrote:
    On 2026-02-10 15:21, Marc Haber wrote:
    "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
    However, you can simply switch the greeter and that will stop loading >>>>> libraries from the other desktop, before starting the desktop.

    Dotfiles left around by the other desktop will still be there. And
    probably be used.

    Not if the programs that used them are gone, or you don't run them.

    An interesting case of similar is when I cloned the home directory of
    an x86 machine onto a PI.

    Desktop icons referring to nonexistent programs remained in place


    So? :-)

    So a clean install doesnt do that.
    --
    Any fool can believe in principles - and most of them do!



    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Carlos E. R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc on Wed Feb 11 13:57:30 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 2026-02-11 13:15, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 11/02/2026 11:06, Carlos E. R. wrote:
    On 2026-02-11 11:28, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    On 10/02/2026 21:28, Carlos E. R. wrote:
    On 2026-02-10 15:21, Marc Haber wrote:
    "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
    However, you can simply switch the greeter and that will stop loading >>>>>> libraries from the other desktop, before starting the desktop.

    Dotfiles left around by the other desktop will still be there. And
    probably be used.

    Not if the programs that used them are gone, or you don't run them.

    An interesting case of similar is when I cloned the home directory of
    an x86 machine onto a PI.

    Desktop icons referring to nonexistent programs remained in place


    So? :-)

    So a clean install doesnt do that.


    Deleting your home directory too, or a new user.
    --
    Cheers,
    Carlos E.R.
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From rbowman@bowman@montana.com to comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.misc on Wed Feb 11 20:50:50 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On Wed, 11 Feb 2026 11:55:29 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:

    On 2026-02-10 20:34, rbowman wrote:
    On Tue, 10 Feb 2026 05:32:14 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence DrCOOliveiro wrote:

    KDE used to offer Konqueror as their all-singing, all-dancing
    universal browser for files, websites, man pages -- just about
    everything. And it still does: just give it a suitable URL, and it
    will figure out what to do.

    I've been running Fedora/KDE for some time and recently loaded openSUSE
    leap 16/KDE in a VM. Neither has Konqueror even though they do have
    Konversation, an IRC client.

    No konqueror? That's strange, because openSUSE has KDE3 still
    maintained.

    I installed it on the Fedora box and it still works. It comes up more like
    a file manager than a browser and does see a NFS export on another
    machine.

    Now I know why the openSUSE iso is so big. It installed K everything but Konqueror. I like KPatience but had to install it separately on Fedora. It
    has that, as well as KMahjongg, KSoduku, KMines, and KReversi.

    The KDE DE on EndeavourOS (Arch) doesn't even have a Games category. Also openSUSE installed the LibreOffice stuff even though I thought I
    explicitly told it not to. What it doesn't have is yast although that was
    one of SUSE's high points for me.

    I'll keep the VM around but I can't see a reason for using Leap rather
    than other distros with KDE.



    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From rbowman@bowman@montana.com to comp.os.linux.misc on Wed Feb 11 21:05:33 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On Wed, 11 Feb 2026 11:50:25 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:

    I have several desktops installed in most of my machines, and I don't
    notice ill effects from that.

    You're lucky. Not everyone's experience is the same.


    -a As for Gnome - DOES suck green donkey dicks - and KDE ... hate 'em
    -a both. XFCE or LXDE for me ! JUST enough, no bullshit or excess
    -a eye-candy.


    Wow, hate... I can not ascribe such strong sentiments to any desktop.

    GNOME haters is a big club. Do you know how many new DEs were created when GNOME3 arrived? I've never used MacOS but as I understand it Apple people
    are right at home. GNOME2 was bad enough,

    I'll come right out and say it. I want a DE to look like Windows XP or
    Windows 7, not something that belongs on a phone or tablet.
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Carlos E. R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc on Wed Feb 11 23:45:28 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 2026-02-11 22:05, rbowman wrote:
    On Wed, 11 Feb 2026 11:50:25 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:

    I have several desktops installed in most of my machines, and I don't
    notice ill effects from that.

    You're lucky. Not everyone's experience is the same.


    -a As for Gnome - DOES suck green donkey dicks - and KDE ... hate 'em
    -a both. XFCE or LXDE for me ! JUST enough, no bullshit or excess
    -a eye-candy.


    Wow, hate... I can not ascribe such strong sentiments to any desktop.

    GNOME haters is a big club. Do you know how many new DEs were created when GNOME3 arrived? I've never used MacOS but as I understand it Apple people
    are right at home. GNOME2 was bad enough,

    I'll come right out and say it. I want a DE to look like Windows XP or Windows 7, not something that belongs on a phone or tablet.

    I also abandoned gnome on version 2, I think it was. Years ago. They
    changed the paradigm, I voted with my feet. But hate? No.

    SUSE, the enterprise version, only ships Gnome. They consider that the
    paying enterprise clients prefer gnome. And have been doing this for
    many years. The KDE offering comes from the community instead.
    --
    Cheers,
    Carlos E.R.
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Carlos E. R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.misc on Wed Feb 11 23:52:57 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 2026-02-11 21:50, rbowman wrote:
    On Wed, 11 Feb 2026 11:55:29 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:

    On 2026-02-10 20:34, rbowman wrote:
    On Tue, 10 Feb 2026 05:32:14 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence DrCOOliveiro wrote:

    KDE used to offer Konqueror as their all-singing, all-dancing
    universal browser for files, websites, man pages -- just about
    everything. And it still does: just give it a suitable URL, and it
    will figure out what to do.

    I've been running Fedora/KDE for some time and recently loaded openSUSE
    leap 16/KDE in a VM. Neither has Konqueror even though they do have
    Konversation, an IRC client.

    No konqueror? That's strange, because openSUSE has KDE3 still
    maintained.

    I installed it on the Fedora box and it still works. It comes up more like
    a file manager than a browser and does see a NFS export on another
    machine.

    Now I know why the openSUSE iso is so big. It installed K everything but Konqueror. I like KPatience but had to install it separately on Fedora. It has that, as well as KMahjongg, KSoduku, KMines, and KReversi.

    The KDE DE on EndeavourOS (Arch) doesn't even have a Games category. Also openSUSE installed the LibreOffice stuff even though I thought I
    explicitly told it not to. What it doesn't have is yast although that was
    one of SUSE's high points for me.

    YaST was abandoned on Leap 16.0. The new installer has faults.


    I'll keep the VM around but I can't see a reason for using Leap rather
    than other distros with KDE.



    --
    Cheers,
    Carlos E.R.
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?=@ldo@nz.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc on Wed Feb 11 22:53:13 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On Wed, 11 Feb 2026 12:06:16 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:

    Desktop icons referring to nonexistent programs remained in place

    So? :-)

    The thing with .desktop files (which is what those icons represent) is
    that they can invoke arbitrary commands when selected. So they are not
    just simple links to particular executables, that can be autoremoved
    by a simple find-dangling-references search.

    Systemwide .desktop files can of course be removed as part of the
    package which installed them. The same is not true of user-created
    ones.
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Carlos E. R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc on Thu Feb 12 00:12:24 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 2026-02-11 23:53, Lawrence DrCOOliveiro wrote:
    On Wed, 11 Feb 2026 12:06:16 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:

    Desktop icons referring to nonexistent programs remained in place

    So? :-)

    The thing with .desktop files (which is what those icons represent) is
    that they can invoke arbitrary commands when selected. So they are not
    just simple links to particular executables, that can be autoremoved
    by a simple find-dangling-references search.

    Systemwide .desktop files can of course be removed as part of the
    package which installed them. The same is not true of user-created
    ones.

    But if they refer to nonexistent programs, they no longer work. They are
    just cosmetic noise.
    --
    Cheers,
    Carlos E.R.
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?=@ldo@nz.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc on Thu Feb 12 00:03:37 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On Thu, 12 Feb 2026 00:12:24 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:

    But if they refer to nonexistent programs, they no longer work. They
    are just cosmetic noise.

    How do you tell without trying them all?
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Bobbie Sellers@bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com to comp.os.linux.misc on Wed Feb 11 18:00:25 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc



    On 2/11/26 13:05, rbowman wrote:
    On Wed, 11 Feb 2026 11:50:25 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:

    I have several desktops installed in most of my machines, and I don't
    notice ill effects from that.

    You're lucky. Not everyone's experience is the same.


    -a As for Gnome - DOES suck green donkey dicks - and KDE ... hate 'em
    -a both. XFCE or LXDE for me ! JUST enough, no bullshit or excess
    -a eye-candy.


    Wow, hate... I can not ascribe such strong sentiments to any desktop.

    GNOME haters is a big club. Do you know how many new DEs were created when GNOME3 arrived? I've never used MacOS but as I understand it Apple people
    are right at home. GNOME2 was bad enough,

    I'll come right out and say it. I want a DE to look like Windows XP or Windows 7, not something that belongs on a phone or tablet.

    I want something that looks just like KDE Plasma 5 or Plasma 6 but does not require the use of systemd. By the way Plasma can look just like
    any Windows system or any other GNU/Linux Desktop environment but I prefer
    it to look like AmigaOS 3.1 but that is just because I learned more about computing and developed my workflow there.

    bliss- Dell Precision 7730- PCLOS 2026.01- Linux 6.12.68 pclos1- KDE
    Plasma 6.5.5

    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From rbowman@bowman@montana.com to comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.misc on Thu Feb 12 03:38:13 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On Wed, 11 Feb 2026 23:52:57 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:

    YaST was abandoned on Leap 16.0. The new installer has faults.

    I only installed vim-gtk but zypper seems to work.Part of my preference
    for CLI is I know how apt, dnf, pacman, and zypper work. Pacman is the odd
    one out with -S rather than install. That means I don't have to go
    searching for whatever GNOME, KDE, Cinnamon, Xfce, MATE, etc calls their
    GUI front end. nmcli and others are also the same across distros and DEs.
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From rbowman@bowman@montana.com to comp.os.linux.misc on Thu Feb 12 04:15:09 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On Wed, 11 Feb 2026 23:45:28 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:

    SUSE, the enterprise version, only ships Gnome. They consider that the
    paying enterprise clients prefer gnome. And have been doing this for
    many years. The KDE offering comes from the community instead.

    Okay. I haven't been keeping up on SUSE things and thought they had went
    to GNOME across the board. I was happy to see the KDE and Xfce options in
    the installer.

    Way back when I went to SuSE because of KDE and yast. Maybe the people
    using SLED have different tastes.
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Marc Haber@mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us to comp.os.linux.misc on Thu Feb 12 08:43:24 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    Lawrence D-|Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
    On Tue, 10 Feb 2026 15:21:18 +0100, Marc Haber wrote:

    Dotfiles left around by the other desktop will still be there. And
    probably be used.

    That only works because of common standards!

    No, the key to this particular kind of grief is reused components.

    Greetings
    Marc
    -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Marc Haber | " Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header Rhein-Neckar, DE | Beginning of Wisdom " |
    Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fon: *49 6224 1600402
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Marc Haber@mh+usenetspam1118@zugschl.us to comp.os.linux.misc on Thu Feb 12 08:45:16 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
    On 10/02/2026 21:28, Carlos E. R. wrote:
    On 2026-02-10 15:21, Marc Haber wrote:
    "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
    However, you can simply switch the greeter and that will stop loading
    libraries from the other desktop, before starting the desktop.

    Dotfiles left around by the other desktop will still be there. And
    probably be used.

    Not if the programs that used them are gone, or you don't run them.

    An interesting case of similar is when I cloned the home directory of an
    x86 machine onto a PI.

    Desktop icons referring to nonexistent programs remained in place

    It is enough to work with xfce, lxde, lxqt and kde interleaved. kde
    might get quite confused by the settings you did in lxde.

    Chaning the desktop in the same account is a common use case when you
    use a development version of your distribtion where your daily desktop
    may be broken von time to time, or when you access your desktop
    remotely over thin links, falling back to a desktop that isn't as
    graphcally challenging.

    Greetings
    Marc
    -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Marc Haber | " Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header Rhein-Neckar, DE | Beginning of Wisdom " |
    Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fon: *49 6224 1600402
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Carlos E. R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc on Thu Feb 12 11:43:22 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 2026-02-12 01:03, Lawrence DrCOOliveiro wrote:
    On Thu, 12 Feb 2026 00:12:24 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:

    But if they refer to nonexistent programs, they no longer work. They
    are just cosmetic noise.

    How do you tell without trying them all?

    Because the premise of this subthread, which you removed, was:

    On 2026-02-11 11:28, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    > Desktop icons referring to nonexistent programs remained in place
    --
    Cheers,
    Carlos E.R.
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Carlos E. R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc on Thu Feb 12 11:45:45 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 2026-02-12 08:45, Marc Haber wrote:
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
    On 10/02/2026 21:28, Carlos E. R. wrote:
    On 2026-02-10 15:21, Marc Haber wrote:
    "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
    However, you can simply switch the greeter and that will stop loading >>>>> libraries from the other desktop, before starting the desktop.

    Dotfiles left around by the other desktop will still be there. And
    probably be used.

    Not if the programs that used them are gone, or you don't run them.

    An interesting case of similar is when I cloned the home directory of an
    x86 machine onto a PI.

    Desktop icons referring to nonexistent programs remained in place

    It is enough to work with xfce, lxde, lxqt and kde interleaved. kde
    might get quite confused by the settings you did in lxde.

    Chaning the desktop in the same account is a common use case when you
    use a development version of your distribtion where your daily desktop
    may be broken von time to time, or when you access your desktop
    remotely over thin links, falling back to a desktop that isn't as
    graphcally challenging.

    Or when they tell me about this or that wonderful feature the other
    desktop has, and I temporarily switch to find out about it. :-)
    --
    Cheers,
    Carlos E.R.
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Carlos E. R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc on Thu Feb 12 11:51:45 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 2026-02-12 05:15, rbowman wrote:
    On Wed, 11 Feb 2026 23:45:28 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:

    SUSE, the enterprise version, only ships Gnome. They consider that the
    paying enterprise clients prefer gnome. And have been doing this for
    many years. The KDE offering comes from the community instead.

    Okay. I haven't been keeping up on SUSE things and thought they had went
    to GNOME across the board. I was happy to see the KDE and Xfce options in
    the installer.

    Way back when I went to SuSE because of KDE and yast. Maybe the people
    using SLED have different tastes.

    It is one difference between SUSE (SLES/SLED) and openSUSE.
    --
    Cheers,
    Carlos E.R.
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Carlos E. R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.misc on Thu Feb 12 11:55:59 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 2026-02-12 04:38, rbowman wrote:
    On Wed, 11 Feb 2026 23:52:57 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:

    YaST was abandoned on Leap 16.0. The new installer has faults.

    I only installed vim-gtk but zypper seems to work.Part of my preference
    for CLI is I know how apt, dnf, pacman, and zypper work. Pacman is the odd one out with -S rather than install. That means I don't have to go
    searching for whatever GNOME, KDE, Cinnamon, Xfce, MATE, etc calls their
    GUI front end. nmcli and others are also the same across distros and DEs.

    Yes, zypper continues the same as before, and there is a graphical
    package manager very similar to the YaST package manager named myrlin
    (not sure of the actual spelling).
    --
    Cheers,
    Carlos E.R.
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From The Natural Philosopher@tnp@invalid.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc on Thu Feb 12 12:45:12 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 11/02/2026 21:05, rbowman wrote:
    GNOME haters is a big club. Do you know how many new DEs were created when GNOME3 arrived? I've never used MacOS but as I understand it Apple people
    are right at home. GNOME2 was bad enough,

    Oh MAC OS is nice looking. I have used some of its features on my MATE desktop...

    I'll come right out and say it. I want a DE to look like Windows XP or Windows 7, not something that belongs on a phone or tablet.

    Well absolutely. I loathe androids interface with a passion.
    Unfortunately there is no real alternative .
    --
    rCLIt is not the truth of Marxism that explains the willingness of intellectuals to believe it, but the power that it confers on
    intellectuals, in their attempts to control the world. And since...it is futile to reason someone out of a thing that he was not reasoned into,
    we can conclude that Marxism owes its remarkable power to survive every criticism to the fact that it is not a truth-directed but a
    power-directed system of thought.rCY
    Sir Roger Scruton

    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From The Natural Philosopher@tnp@invalid.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc on Thu Feb 12 12:48:19 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 12/02/2026 10:43, Carlos E. R. wrote:
    On 2026-02-12 01:03, Lawrence DrCOOliveiro wrote:
    On Thu, 12 Feb 2026 00:12:24 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:

    But if they refer to nonexistent programs, they no longer work. They
    are just cosmetic noise.

    How do you tell without trying them all?

    Because the premise of this subthread, which you removed, was:

    -a On 2026-02-11 11:28, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    -a > Desktop icons referring to nonexistent programs remained in place



    I did in fact try them all.

    Now they were no more than an oddity and presented no threat, but they
    are a typical example of what can remain in place when you only
    reinstall part of a new OS and do not wipe the slate clean.
    --
    Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the
    gospel of envy.

    Its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.

    Winston Churchill


    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From candycanearter07@candycanearter07@candycanearter07.nomail.afraid to comp.os.linux.misc on Thu Feb 12 19:40:04 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    Lawrence DrCOOliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote at 00:03 this Thursday (GMT):
    On Thu, 12 Feb 2026 00:12:24 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:

    But if they refer to nonexistent programs, they no longer work. They
    are just cosmetic noise.

    How do you tell without trying them all?


    You could parse the target field and check if the file is still
    existing?
    --
    user <candycane> is generated from /dev/urandom
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Gremlin@nobody@haph.org to comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.misc on Thu Feb 12 20:03:20 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    rbowman <bowman@montana.com> news:muvr52Fj59pU2@mid.individual.net Tue, 10
    Feb 2026 04:40:02 GMT in comp.os.linux.advocacy, wrote:


    https://www.theregister.com/2026/02/09/compilers_undermine_encryption/

    Interesting article. The compiler optimizes away the carefully crafted scheme to prevent password hacking by seeing which character it fails on.

    Very interesting! Thanks for sharing it.
    --
    Liar, lawyer; mirror show me, what's the difference?
    Kangaroo done hung the guilty with the innocent
    Liar, lawyer; mirror for ya', what's the difference?
    Kangaroo be stoned. He's guilty as the government

    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Bobbie Sellers@bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com to comp.os.linux.misc on Thu Feb 12 12:17:45 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc



    On 2/12/26 11:40, candycanearter07 wrote:
    Lawrence DrCOOliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote at 00:03 this Thursday (GMT):
    On Thu, 12 Feb 2026 00:12:24 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:

    But if they refer to nonexistent programs, they no longer work. They
    are just cosmetic noise.

    A good reminder to download and install those programs if usable in the
    new DE.

    How do you tell without trying them all?


    You could parse the target field and check if the file is still
    existing?

    bliss

    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From rbowman@bowman@montana.com to comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.misc on Thu Feb 12 20:39:41 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On Thu, 12 Feb 2026 11:55:59 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:

    Yes, zypper continues the same as before, and there is a graphical
    package manager very similar to the YaST package manager named myrlin
    (not sure of the actual spelling).

    Myrlin is pretty lame. In Discover you're presented with a list of
    categories similar to the start menu, Development forex. In myrlin if you click around enough you find that's in a submenu called Patterns. A couple
    of random searches for applications I use, librewolf and vscodium, came up dry. I suppose if you successfully navigate the menus and find
    Repositories you might be able to add the necessary ones.

    SuSE I hardly knew ya...

    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From rbowman@bowman@montana.com to comp.os.linux.misc on Thu Feb 12 21:07:02 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On Thu, 12 Feb 2026 11:45:45 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:

    On 2026-02-12 08:45, Marc Haber wrote:
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
    On 10/02/2026 21:28, Carlos E. R. wrote:
    On 2026-02-10 15:21, Marc Haber wrote:
    "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
    However, you can simply switch the greeter and that will stop
    loading libraries from the other desktop, before starting the
    desktop.

    Dotfiles left around by the other desktop will still be there. And
    probably be used.

    Not if the programs that used them are gone, or you don't run them.

    An interesting case of similar is when I cloned the home directory of
    an x86 machine onto a PI.

    Desktop icons referring to nonexistent programs remained in place

    It is enough to work with xfce, lxde, lxqt and kde interleaved. kde
    might get quite confused by the settings you did in lxde.

    Chaning the desktop in the same account is a common use case when you
    use a development version of your distribtion where your daily desktop
    may be broken von time to time, or when you access your desktop
    remotely over thin links, falling back to a desktop that isn't as
    graphcally challenging.

    Or when they tell me about this or that wonderful feature the other
    desktop has, and I temporarily switch to find out about it. :-)

    That's when you either use the live feature or fire up a VM.

    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From rbowman@bowman@montana.com to comp.os.linux.misc on Thu Feb 12 21:12:58 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On Thu, 12 Feb 2026 12:45:12 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    On 11/02/2026 21:05, rbowman wrote:
    GNOME haters is a big club. Do you know how many new DEs were created
    when GNOME3 arrived? I've never used MacOS but as I understand it Apple
    people are right at home. GNOME2 was bad enough,

    Oh MAC OS is nice looking. I have used some of its features on my MATE desktop...

    I'll take your word for it. I'm not an Apple hater but I've never used
    Apple devices. Well, there was the iPod shuffle that introduced my to
    iTunes. Now that interface at least on Windows is worthy of hate. What's
    wrong with just coming up as a mass storage device like every other mp3
    player in the world?


    I'll come right out and say it. I want a DE to look like Windows XP or
    Windows 7, not something that belongs on a phone or tablet.

    Well absolutely. I loathe androids interface with a passion.
    Unfortunately there is no real alternative .

    A menu system would be a real PITA; my big fat peasant fingers don't taper
    to a point.
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Carlos E. R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc on Thu Feb 12 22:27:29 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 2026-02-12 22:07, rbowman wrote:
    On Thu, 12 Feb 2026 11:45:45 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:

    On 2026-02-12 08:45, Marc Haber wrote:
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
    On 10/02/2026 21:28, Carlos E. R. wrote:
    On 2026-02-10 15:21, Marc Haber wrote:
    "Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
    However, you can simply switch the greeter and that will stop
    loading libraries from the other desktop, before starting the
    desktop.

    Dotfiles left around by the other desktop will still be there. And >>>>>> probably be used.

    Not if the programs that used them are gone, or you don't run them.

    An interesting case of similar is when I cloned the home directory of
    an x86 machine onto a PI.

    Desktop icons referring to nonexistent programs remained in place

    It is enough to work with xfce, lxde, lxqt and kde interleaved. kde
    might get quite confused by the settings you did in lxde.

    Chaning the desktop in the same account is a common use case when you
    use a development version of your distribtion where your daily desktop
    may be broken von time to time, or when you access your desktop
    remotely over thin links, falling back to a desktop that isn't as
    graphcally challenging.

    Or when they tell me about this or that wonderful feature the other
    desktop has, and I temporarily switch to find out about it. :-)

    That's when you either use the live feature or fire up a VM.


    Nope. I just login another user in that other desktop. Simultaneously. And accessing the same files and resources :-)
    --
    Cheers,
    Carlos E.R.
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Carlos E. R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.misc on Thu Feb 12 22:30:02 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 2026-02-12 21:39, rbowman wrote:
    On Thu, 12 Feb 2026 11:55:59 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:

    Yes, zypper continues the same as before, and there is a graphical
    package manager very similar to the YaST package manager named myrlin
    (not sure of the actual spelling).

    Myrlin is pretty lame. In Discover you're presented with a list of
    categories similar to the start menu, Development forex. In myrlin if you click around enough you find that's in a submenu called Patterns. A couple
    of random searches for applications I use, librewolf and vscodium, came up dry. I suppose if you successfully navigate the menus and find
    Repositories you might be able to add the necessary ones.

    SuSE I hardly knew ya...

    Myrlin is almost exactly as YaST package manager was. It is home for any
    *SUSE user.
    --
    Cheers,
    Carlos E.R.
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?=@ldo@nz.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc on Thu Feb 12 23:55:18 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On Thu, 12 Feb 2026 11:43:22 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:

    On 2026-02-12 01:03, Lawrence DrCOOliveiro wrote:

    On Thu, 12 Feb 2026 00:12:24 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:

    But if they refer to nonexistent programs, they no longer work.
    They are just cosmetic noise.

    How do you tell without trying them all?

    Because the premise of this subthread, which you removed, was:

    On 2026-02-11 11:28, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    > Desktop icons referring to nonexistent programs remained in place

    We already discussed why itrCOs not exactly trivial to determine that
    they *are* referring to nonexistent programs ...
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?=@ldo@nz.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc on Thu Feb 12 23:56:58 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On Thu, 12 Feb 2026 19:40:04 -0000 (UTC), candycanearter07 wrote:

    Lawrence DrCOOliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote at 00:03 this Thursday (GMT):

    On Thu, 12 Feb 2026 00:12:24 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:

    But if they refer to nonexistent programs, they no longer work.
    They are just cosmetic noise.

    How do you tell without trying them all?

    You could parse the target field and check if the file is still
    existing?

    *What* rCLtarget fieldrCY?

    <https://specifications.freedesktop.org/desktop-entry/latest/>
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From rbowman@bowman@montana.com to comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.misc on Fri Feb 13 01:15:08 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On Thu, 12 Feb 2026 22:30:02 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:

    Myrlin is almost exactly as YaST package manager was. It is home for any *SUSE user.

    If you say so. My memories of yast aren't exactly fresh. I did not leap to Leap from 13.2.
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From vallor@vallor@vallor.earth to comp.os.linux.misc on Fri Feb 13 21:54:03 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    At 11 Feb 2026 21:05:33 GMT, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

    On Wed, 11 Feb 2026 11:50:25 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:

    I have several desktops installed in most of my machines, and I
    don't notice ill effects from that.

    You're lucky. Not everyone's experience is the same.


    -a As for Gnome - DOES suck green donkey dicks - and KDE ... hate
    -a 'em both. XFCE or LXDE for me ! JUST enough, no bullshit or
    -a excess eye-candy.


    Wow, hate... I can not ascribe such strong sentiments to any
    desktop.

    GNOME haters is a big club. Do you know how many new DEs were created
    when GNOME3 arrived? I've never used MacOS but as I understand it
    Apple people are right at home. GNOME2 was bad enough,

    I'll come right out and say it. I want a DE to look like Windows XP or Windows 7, not something that belongs on a phone or tablet.

    I like Xfce as a DE, as it is simple and configures easily.

    Unfortunately, the latest NVIDIA drivers have a problem with
    Xfce compositing, so I can't use them. Thus, I'm stuck here
    on Linux 6.18.10 because I need fixed drivers to make the leap
    to 6.19.

    Stop the presses! I just came across a workaround that doesn't
    say "turn off the compositor":

    https://forums.developer.nvidia.com/t/580-release-feedback-discussion/341205/1007

    Haven't tried that yet, but it looks promising...

    $ xfwm4 --vblank=off --replace
    --
    -v System76 Thelio Mega v1.1 x86_64 Mem: 258G
    OS: Linux 6.18.10 D: Mint 22.3 DE: Xfce 4.18 (X11)
    NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3090Ti (24G) (580.105.08)
    "An error? Impossible! My modem is error correcting."
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Carlos E. R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to comp.os.linux.misc on Fri Feb 13 22:59:55 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On 2026-02-13 22:54, vallor wrote:
    At 11 Feb 2026 21:05:33 GMT, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

    On Wed, 11 Feb 2026 11:50:25 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:

    I have several desktops installed in most of my machines, and I
    don't notice ill effects from that.

    You're lucky. Not everyone's experience is the same.


    -a As for Gnome - DOES suck green donkey dicks - and KDE ... hate
    -a 'em both. XFCE or LXDE for me ! JUST enough, no bullshit or
    -a excess eye-candy.


    Wow, hate... I can not ascribe such strong sentiments to any
    desktop.

    GNOME haters is a big club. Do you know how many new DEs were created
    when GNOME3 arrived? I've never used MacOS but as I understand it
    Apple people are right at home. GNOME2 was bad enough,

    I'll come right out and say it. I want a DE to look like Windows XP or
    Windows 7, not something that belongs on a phone or tablet.

    I like Xfce as a DE, as it is simple and configures easily.

    Me too.


    Unfortunately, the latest NVIDIA drivers have a problem with
    Xfce compositing, so I can't use them. Thus, I'm stuck here
    on Linux 6.18.10 because I need fixed drivers to make the leap
    to 6.19.

    I got tired of NVidia issues, so my current computers have AMD hardware
    and graphics. No more extra drivers.


    Stop the presses! I just came across a workaround that doesn't
    say "turn off the compositor":

    https://forums.developer.nvidia.com/t/580-release-feedback-discussion/341205/1007

    Haven't tried that yet, but it looks promising...

    $ xfwm4 --vblank=off --replace

    --
    Cheers,
    Carlos E.R.
    ESEfc-Efc+, EUEfc-Efc|;
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From rbowman@bowman@montana.com to comp.os.linux.misc on Sat Feb 14 00:48:54 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

    On Fri, 13 Feb 2026 22:59:55 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:

    I got tired of NVidia issues, so my current computers have AMD hardware
    and graphics. No more extra drivers.

    I've got both Intel and AMD hardware and haven't had problems with either.
    I don't do anything that requires a GPU. It might be nice for ML stuff
    that defaults to the CPU if it can't find a CUDA device but not nice
    enough for all the headaches.
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2