From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Wed, 26 Nov 2025 13:23:41 +0200, Anssi Saari wrote:

I wonder how well those things manage software lifecycle?

I know of no solution that successfully combines graphical-based
programming with effective version control. Even after decades of
experience with both, there is still no graphical equivalent to the
ability to do a diff on plain text files.
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From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Mon, 12 Jan 2026 07:24:10 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence DrCOOliveiro wrote:

On Wed, 26 Nov 2025 13:23:41 +0200, Anssi Saari wrote:

I wonder how well those things manage software lifecycle?

I know of no solution that successfully combines graphical-based
programming with effective version control. Even after decades of
experience with both, there is still no graphical equivalent to the
ability to do a diff on plain text files.

I'm not sure what you mean.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Visual_SourceSafe

It sucked but you could easily do a diff.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TortoiseSVN https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VisualSVN

I used subversion from the command line but either are okay.
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From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

rbowman <bowman@montana.com> writes:

Lawrence DrCOOliveiro wrote:

Anssi Saari wrote:

I wonder how well those things manage software lifecycle?

I know of no solution that successfully combines graphical-based
programming with effective version control. Even after decades of
experience with both, there is still no graphical equivalent to the
ability to do a diff on plain text files.

I'm not sure what you mean.

HerCOs asking how you show the difference between two versions of a
program written in a
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_programming_language.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Visual_SourceSafe

It sucked but you could easily do a diff.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TortoiseSVN https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VisualSVN

I used subversion from the command line but either are okay.

Those are diffs of text files. If you applied them to something written
in a visual programming language the best yourCOd get is a diff of
whatever internal representation the language implementation used.
--
https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/
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From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Mon, 12 Jan 2026 08:39:01 +0000, Richard Kettlewell wrote:

Those are diffs of text files. If you applied them to something written
in a visual programming language the best yourCOd get is a diff of
whatever internal representation the language implementation used.

Okay, got it. I was associating 'visual' with Visual C++ etc, not Scratch.
I didn't know that was used outside of grade school.
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From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 2026-01-12, rbowman wrote:

On Mon, 12 Jan 2026 08:39:01 +0000, Richard Kettlewell wrote:

Those are diffs of text files. If you applied them to something written
in a visual programming language the best yourCOd get is a diff of
whatever internal representation the language implementation used.

Okay, got it. I was associating 'visual' with Visual C++ etc, not Scratch.
I didn't know that was used outside of grade school.

While I do not have much experience with this kind of programming, I've
at least encountered Simulink and Grafcet.
--
Nuno Silva
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From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> wrote or quoted:

While I do not have much experience with this kind of programming, I've
at least encountered Simulink and Grafcet.

The cover of the September 1984 issue of Scientific American
featured a program in a visual programming language by Lanier
called "Mandala". (This issue contains articles by authors
such as Alan Kay, Niklaus Wirth, Terry Winograd, Stephen
Wolfram, and Douglas B. Lenat.)

Here's a program I wrote in my visual programming language.
(I never implemented that language, though.)

.--------------------------------------------.
| .---------------. |
| | .----. | |
| | ->| | | |
.-------. | | | <= | -> | | [] --->| qsort |---> [] | | x ->| | | |
'-------' | | '----' | |
| '---------------' |
| | |
| v .---. |
| .------. .-------. | | | .---------------. | xs -->| grep | ->| qsort | --->| | | | .---. | | '------' '-------' | j | | | x -->| | | .-------. | .------. | o | | | | : | -> |-->| qsort | ->| x --->| list | --------------->| i | --> | | xs ->| | | '-------' | '------' | n | | | '___' | | .------. .-------. | | | '---------------' | xs -->| grep | ->| qsort | --->| | |
| '------' '-------' | | |
| ^ '---' |
| | |
| .---------------. |
| | .----. | |
| | x ->| | | |
| | | < | -> | |
| | ->| | | |
| | '----' | |
| '---------------' |
'--------------------------------------------'




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From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 1/12/26 20:48, Stefan Ram wrote:

Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> wrote or quoted:

While I do not have much experience with this kind of programming, I've
at least encountered Simulink and Grafcet.

The cover of the September 1984 issue of Scientific American
featured a program in a visual programming language by Lanier
called "Mandala". (This issue contains articles by authors
such as Alan Kay, Niklaus Wirth, Terry Winograd, Stephen
Wolfram, and Douglas B. Lenat.)

Here's a program I wrote in my visual programming language.
(I never implemented that language, though.)

.--------------------------------------------.
| .---------------. |
| | .----. | |
| | ->| | | |
.-------. | | | <= | -> | |
[] --->| qsort |---> [] | | x ->| | | |
'-------' | | '----' | |
| '---------------' |
| | |
| v .---. |
| .------. .-------. | | |
.---------------. | xs -->| grep | ->| qsort | --->| | |
| .---. | | '------' '-------' | j | |
| x -->| | | .-------. | .------. | o | |
| | : | -> |-->| qsort | ->| x --->| list | --------------->| i | --> |
| xs ->| | | '-------' | '------' | n | |
| '___' | | .------. .-------. | | |
'---------------' | xs -->| grep | ->| qsort | --->| | |
| '------' '-------' | | |
| ^ '---' |
| | |
| .---------------. |
| | .----. | |
| | x ->| | | |
| | | < | -> | |
| | ->| | | |
| | '----' | |
| '---------------' |
'--------------------------------------------'

Such 'languages' CAN work ... but note that
it's almost impossible to represent a lot
of the fine-grained incidentals with them.

'AI' programming ... it's kind of 'modular',
similar to yer 'graphical' programming. How
well can IT cope with the fine-grained
considerations ? Stupid-user issues ? Security
issues ???

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From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Mon, 12 Jan 2026 23:40:12 +0000, Nuno Silva wrote:

On 2026-01-12, rbowman wrote:

On Mon, 12 Jan 2026 08:39:01 +0000, Richard Kettlewell wrote:

Those are diffs of text files. If you applied them to something
written in a visual programming language the best yourCOd get is a diff
of whatever internal representation the language implementation used.

Okay, got it. I was associating 'visual' with Visual C++ etc, not
Scratch.
I didn't know that was used outside of grade school.

While I do not have much experience with this kind of programming, I've
at least encountered Simulink and Grafcet.

I repress really well. A few years ago I was tasked with evaluating Talend Open Studio, a graphical ETL tool where you dragged stuff around,
connected it, and it was supposed to generate Java code. It sucked
mightily. That was the general opinion, not mine alone. They were bought
by Qlik and the Open Studio product was dropped.

The dream in the ETL and BI world is pointy haired bosses can do something with big data without talking to those snotty programmers.
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From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 13 Jan 2026 07:54:04 GMT
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

The dream in the ETL and BI world is pointy haired bosses can do
something with big data without talking to those snotty programmers.

"Visual programming" has always seemed like a solution to a problem
nobody has, dreamed up by people who don't really understand what the *actually* challenging parts of software development are.

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From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

John Ames wrote this post by blinking in Morse code:

On 13 Jan 2026 07:54:04 GMT
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

The dream in the ETL and BI world is pointy haired bosses can do
something with big data without talking to those snotty programmers.

Now they'll talk to snotty AI.

"Visual programming" has always seemed like a solution to a problem
nobody has, dreamed up by people who don't really understand what the *actually* challenging parts of software development are.

At work a few years ago I was forced by funding and then wanting
to get off a C#/.NET project (working for an arrogant cowboy) to
delve into the wonderful world of SysML/UAF. With Cameo Systems
Modeler (MagicDraw) one could use diagrams to create programs and
simulations.

Fairly clumsy and difficult to master. Plus some things couldn't
be done without paying for a plugin [e.g. ALF, the Action Language
for Foundational UML (fUML)]. Some calculations could be done
using Octave (free) or MATLAB ($$$).

One could also created documentation by drawing diagrams with
<<view>> elements (IIRC), <<viewpoints>>, <<blocks>>, and
connecting them. An example here, too fuzzy to read though:

<https://youtu.be/P7oTrUjLKU8?t=28>

I generated some fairly large documents (HTML, PDF) using it.
Again, clumsy.

There's also the Report Wizard, which uses the Velocity Template
Language (Apache license) to lay out page structures to fill in
with model data. Again, clumsy but workable, for generating
LibreOffice and Microsoft documents.

I was quite happy to retire and get back to C++, LaTeX, etc.
--
The grass is always greener on the other side of your sunglasses.
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