From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 2026-01-03, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:

On 1/2/26 16:27, Lawrence DrCOOliveiro wrote:

On Fri, 02 Jan 2026 06:04:00 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

On 2026-01-02, Lawrence DrCOOliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

On Fri, 02 Jan 2026 02:18:40 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

Watch the movie "Fandango". At one point Truman sticks part of the
airplane back on with some 100-mph tape.

You *do* know movies are fiction, right?

Yes - but sometimes they reflect reality fairly well.

The way to make your point is to reference the actual reality, instead
of a movie that might or might not have any relevance to reality.

Hmmm ... there was a US television series
called "MythBusters". They DID use the tape
to replace the 'doped' cloth that made up
the entire tail section of something like
a SuperCub.

True story: someone parked a Cub (or similar) out in the middle
of nowhere to go exploring. When he got back, a bear had shredded
most of the fabric fuselage. Fortunately, he had a number of rolls
of duc[tk] tape with him, and patched things up well enough to
fly home.
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Growth for the sake of
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | growth is the ideology
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | of the cancer cell.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Edward Abbey
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Sat, 03 Jan 2026 06:09:31 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

True story: someone parked a Cub (or similar) out in the middle of
nowhere to go exploring. When he got back, a bear had shredded most
of the fabric fuselage. Fortunately, he had a number of rolls of
duc[tk] tape with him, and patched things up well enough to fly
home.

That I can believe. Why? Because it is not carrying any structural
load. ItrCOs just a covering, like the original fabric.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 03/01/2026 02:39, c186282 wrote:

On the flip, the USA currency system IS far more
-a clear than traditional British - 'decimal'.

The traditional British was not 'decimal'
--
"When one man dies it's a tragedy. When thousands die it's statistics."

Josef Stalin


--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 03/01/2026 02:21, c186282 wrote:

On 1/2/26 20:42, rbowman wrote:

On Fri, 2 Jan 2026 06:16:22 -0500, c186282 wrote:

-a-a-a Can Python get the output ?

https://pypi.org/project/astral/

-a That's the SECOND one that apparently does
-a the same thing.

Can't have too much of a good thing :-} I wonder if they give the same
results though? Might be interesting to cross-check them.

(There's also one for perl. Not that I have any need at all for such a
thing.)

-a Oh well, parsing my little downloaded table
-a works well, not gonna change at this point.

--
Mike Scott
Harlow, England
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 1/3/26 03:42, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 03/01/2026 02:39, c186282 wrote:

On the flip, the USA currency system IS far more
-a-a clear than traditional British - 'decimal'.

The traditional British was not 'decimal'

Awkwardly-worded alas, trying to say the US system
is 'decimal'.

The old Brit system ... dunno WHAT the hell happened there.


--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 2026-01-03 09:46, Mike Scott wrote:

On 03/01/2026 02:21, c186282 wrote:

On 1/2/26 20:42, rbowman wrote:

On Fri, 2 Jan 2026 06:16:22 -0500, c186282 wrote:

-a-a-a Can Python get the output ?

https://pypi.org/project/astral/

-a-a That's the SECOND one that apparently does
-a-a the same thing.

Can't have too much of a good thing :-} I wonder if they give the same results though? Might be interesting to cross-check them.

The one I found outputs different times according to a variable:

ZenithMode is

zenithOfficial = 0;
zenithCivil = 1;
zenithNautical = 2;
zenithAstronomical = 3;
--
Cheers, Carlos.
ESEfc-Efc+, EUEfc-Efc|;
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 03/01/2026 12:09, c186282 wrote:

On 1/3/26 03:42, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 03/01/2026 02:39, c186282 wrote:

On the flip, the USA currency system IS far more
-a-a clear than traditional British - 'decimal'.

The traditional British was not 'decimal'

-a Awkwardly-worded alas, trying to say the US system
-a is 'decimal'.

-a The old Brit system ... dunno WHAT the hell happened there.

It sorta grew....I think the old pound was a pound of silver or something.

"It's called "pound sterling" because the "pound" originally referred to
a pound weight of silver, and "sterling" denoted the high quality and
purity of the silver coins (sterlings) used to make up that weight, with
240 pennies equaling one pound of silver. The name evolved from "a pound
of sterlings" into the shorter "pound sterling," signifying a trusted
currency backed by a specific weight of fine silver. "


Shilling is I think a Dutch/germanic word. It just means a division

As is IIRC dollar - or is that Spanish?

The British crown and half crown were one quarter and one eighth of a
pound.

The halfpenny and farthing were on half and one quarter of a penny.

The groat was four pence.

The tanner was six pence.

A florin was two shillings or a tenth of a pound (The name is linked to Florence, a city known for flourishing, and its famous 13th-century gold
coin, the florin, which featured a lily symbol. ).

twenty one shillings was a guinea. A sort of turbo charged pound.

No more difficult than feet, yards, inches, miles, gallons and degrees Fahrenheit...
--
"In our post-modern world, climate science is not powerful because it is
true: it is true because it is powerful."

Lucas Bergkamp

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 2026-01-03, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:

On 1/2/26 20:48, rbowman wrote:

On Fri, 2 Jan 2026 14:48:43 -0000 (UTC), Lars Poulsen wrote:

On 1/1/26 09:50, Mike Scott wrote:

https://www.ducktape.co.uk/

On 2026-01-02, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:

Yep, originally "Duck" ... then later, likely for brand-name legal >>>> reasons, oft said "Duct".

It IS good for 'ducts' too.

My nieces in Denmark call it Gaffer tape.

My understanding is that it was developed for sealing ammunition
canisters in WW2, and the grunts called it duck tape.

The grunts called it 100 mph tape. You could patch up your Jeep and it
wouldn't blow off. Of course 100 mph was very optimistic for a Jeep but
it sounds better than 65 mph tape. I suppose 100 kph tape would work but
the US still isn't comfortable with kph.

Kilometers are TOO SHORT !

Meters are TOO LONG !

Centimeters are TOO SHORT, not to mention millimeters !

The English units are inconvenient, but they ARE much
closer to what I'd call "human-scale" values. It's
easy to hold yer fingers about an inch apart. A 'foot'
is kind-of the size of a (largish) foot. A yard is
about the size of a 'long stride'. Pints are just the
right size for a Guinness.

Expect USA to hold on to those imperial measures for
a long long time ... save the metric for 'technical'
junk.

On the flip, the USA currency system IS far more
clear than traditional British - 'decimal'.

Many years ago (over 25 years ago), I collected these:

* * *

** British Measures **

Recent discussions on alt.folklore.computers have reminded me just how
funny and confusing the traditional English measures can be. Some of
them still live on in the USA, while the English themselves are now
safely ashore in the metric system.

*Ounces, Pounds and Pints*

(www.sciencemadesimple.com/conversions.html - a serious tool)

In current American usage, 8 ounces make a cup, 2 cups make a pint, two
pints make a quart, 4 quarts make a gallon. A pint of water weighs a
pound.

But in the British empire, it took 20 (fluid) ounces to make an imperial
pint, making the Imperial gallon 25% bigger than the American gallon.

Thus, we have the common American claim that "a pint is a pound the
world around" pitted against the English statement that "a pint of water
weighs a pound and a quarter".

But in England, it got a lot worse, because there were two different
ounces! Precious metals and apothecary goods were sold in troy (or
apothecary) ounces of 480 grains each, while everything else was traded
in avoirdupois ounces of 437.5 grains each. Thus, the comforting fact
that an ounce of gold (31.1 grams) weighs more than an ounce of feathers
(28.35 grams). On the other hand, the troy pound has only 12 ounces,
while the avoirdupois pound has 16 ounces, so a pound of gold (373
grams) weighs LESS than a pound of feathers (454 grams).

Larger measures: A hogshead (238 liters) is 7 firkins (US) or just under
6 firkins (British) and I have heard it said that this is also half a
pipe, but I have not found a written reference to the measure of a pipe.

A barrel (British) appears to be anywhere from 31 gallons to 42 gallons, although the most common definition seems to be 36 gallons (164 liters).

An American barrel of dry measure is 105 dry quarts (116 liters), but a
liquid barrel is 31.5 gallons (liquid) or 119 liters, unless the barrel contains petroleum, in which case it contains 42 (US) gallons or 159
liters.

The three different ounces:

- a fluid ounce is 29.573 ml
- a troy ounce is 31.1 g
- an ounce avoirdupois is 28.35 g

There's also something called "dry measure" with units of pint, quart,
peck and bushel for measuring quantities of fruits, grains, and whatnot.

1 pint dry is 0.551 l, while 1 pint liquid is 0.473 l.

*Inches, Rods, Chains and Furlongs*

An inch is the outer part of a man's thumb, 25.4 millimeter to be exact.

12 inches to a foot, two feet to a cubit or three feet to a yard.

A rod/pole is 5.5 yards (16.5 feet): The size of a big stick carried
around by builders (hence the name).

Four rods make a chain (22 yards) - the distance between two (cricket)
wickets. Ten chains make a furlong. A furlong square is ten acres. Eight furlongs make a mile.

A perch was originaly a big stick, but later became a volume. A perch
was a pile of stone one rod long by one foot wide by one cubit high).

*Temperatures in Fahrenheit*

People raised with Celsius temperatures find the Fahrenheit temperature
scale equally bizarre, and wonder how it came to be that water freezes
at 32 degrees Fahrentheit and boils at 212 degrees F; two oddball
numbers. A correspondent to alt.folklore computer describes it as
follows:

Fahrenheit's claim to fame was that he had a (proprietary) technique for
making glass tubes with a constant inner bore. Thermometers that he made
with that technique were exceptionally accurate. They still had to be calibrated, of course (it's deucedly hard to get exactly the right
amount of liquid in the bulb), but once two marks were placed on the
completed thermometer it was straightforward to interpolate other marks linearly in between, confident that because of the constant bore such
marks would match the corresponding linearly interpolated temperatures.

Notice that both the position and spacing of the marks would vary from
one thermometer to the next. It was tricky enough making each tube have
a constant bore along its length. Making all the tubes coming out of the
same factory have the same constant bore was too much to hope for. In
any event the distance between marks still depends on the ratio of the
volume of the bulb to the area of the bore, and he wasn't able to make
that ratio so uniform.

It helps if the two reference temperatures differ by a power of two,
because then interpolating the other marks is as simple as repeatedly
halving the interval. He chose as his reference temperatures the
temperature of melting ice and the temperature of his dog's rectum.
(Poor mutt.) He assigned those temperatures the numbers 32 and 96, which
differ by 64 degrees.

He started at 32 rather than 0 to better handle subfreezing
temperatures. 32, also a power of two, simplified the task of adding the subfreezing temperature marks, and was enough to shift the range so
that, as a fortuitous consequence, 0 would be "about as cold as it gets"
and 100 would be "about as hot as it gets". "About", in both cases. 0
and 100 were not the reference temperatures; 32 and 96 were. He was
thinking binary, not decimal.

-Ron Hunsinger - hnsngr@sirius.com

*Guineas, Pounds, Shillings, Pence and Farthings*

Prior to the currency reform around 1970, there were 12 pennies to the shilling, and 20 shillings to the pound, making 240 pennies to the
pound. The halfpenny was also legal tender, and prior to about 1957
there was also a coin called a farthing, which was equal to a quarter of
a penny.

The pound was abbreviated "L" for "Libra" (latin for a pound of silver).
The shilling was abbreviated "s" for "solidus", and the penny was
abbreviated "d" for "denarius".

After the reform, there were 100 (new) pence to a pound, but visitors
were quite confused, because the old coins remained legal tender. For
example, the old sixpence coin was now 2 1/2 (new) pence; to avoid
confusion, the new pence were abbreviated "p" (for "pence"). As old
coins wore out, new coins were minted in the same shape but imprinted
with the decimal value.

How could a system as complicated as the 1/20/12 ratios have developed ?
One source claims that the three units originally were unrelated.

There was a unit of currency called the shilling. It was used by big
business and worth quite a bit (about a month's wages). Its value went
up and down as the medium of exchange -- a month's work -- became rare or plentiful -- high employment or low employment.

There was another unit of currency called the penny. It was the general
medium of exchange for a bulk item (baker's dozen of loaves, a month's
rent, travel from Oxford to London). It was divided into quarters so you
could buy a single loaf or a jug of milk.

Another unit was used by huge business: the banks, shipbuilders, those
who dealt in metals or in entire shiploads of goods. It was equivalent
to the cost of a pound of silver.

There were also groats and sovereigns. I'm not sure about them.

These all existed independently. If you were the kind of person who
dealt in pounds, there was never any need for you to encounter a penny.
If you paid rent of a shilling a month for your house, you could never
thing of seeing a whole pound. The different units of currency had constantly-shifting exchange rates depending on demand-and-suppply. If
three trading ships came in at the same month all laden with goods, the
value of the pound would go up with respect to the shilling and penny.

Eventually there was so much interplay between the different currencies
that it became necessary to fix the exchange rates to stop a rich man
keeping all his wealth in pennies because he thought that the pound was
going to go down. At about that time, a pound was worth about twenty
shillings and a shilling was worth about twelve pennies, so that's how
they fixed it.

The disparate systems did not bother ordinary people. No need to know
what a shilling was until you were old enough to pay rent. No need to
know what a pound was unless you were a clerk, in which case you were
trained. More recently (i.e. when I went to school) it was a standard
part of early schooling.

I really don't believe any of this, but it is an interesting theory.

Back to the facts. Certain items were traditionally billed in Guineas. A
guinea is one pound and a shilling. I have heard it claimed that this originated in real estate transactions, where the pound went to the
seller, while the shilling was the lawyer's commission for doing the
paperwork.

*Summary of English Money*

- two farthings made a halfpenny (ha'penny)
- two halfpennies made a penny
- three pennies made a thrupenny bit
- a thrupenny bit and a penny made a groat
- two thrupenny bits made a tanner
- two tanners made a bob
- two bob made a florin (a.k.a. a two bob bit)
- two bob and a tanner made half a crown (a.k.a. half a dollar)
- two half dollars made a crown
- two crown made a ten bob note
- two ten bob notes made a quid
- twentyone bob made a guinea
- and those guys thought that "decimal money would be too complicated
for ordinary people" to switch to ...

*The Metric Reform*

Around 1963, the Bristish government pushed through a general conversion
to the metric system. personally remember a set of posters published by
the Construction Industry Training Board, which I ordered through the
mail after hearing them advertized on Radio Luxembourg. English born
colleagues remember ditties they learned in school, such as "a litre of
water's a pint and three quarters" or "two and a quarter pounds of jam
weighs about a kilogram".
--
Lars Poulsen - an old geek in Santa Barbara, California
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Sat, 3 Jan 2026 08:42:02 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 03/01/2026 02:39, c186282 wrote:

On the flip, the USA currency system IS far more
-a clear than traditional British - 'decimal'.

The traditional British was not 'decimal'

That's for sure. I never did figure out pence, shillings, quid, bob,
pounds, and so forth, between the base system and the informal names.
Somehow I wound up with a 5 pence piece that was masquerading as a US
dime. It's not uncommon to get Canadian coins but I've not idea how that
one got introduced.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Fri, 2 Jan 2026 21:19:46 -0500, c186282 wrote:

How'd you get the plastic stretched back tight ?

Heat gun. It requires a light touch or you melt the vinyl but the backing material has some stretch. I started in the middle, stapled the material
to the pan, and worked towards the ends.

My Sportster seat was pure torture. That's why I fitted a Ural bench
seat instead.

I developed an interest in roadside attractions before replacing it with a Mustang.

https://mustangseats.com/products/wide-touring-solo-for-harley-davidson- sportster-2004-2022

I didn't get the backrest. It was a vast improvement. Another mystery in
life is how HD can build something that looks like a seat but is a torture device when third parties can supply something comfortable.

Mine had conchos but so did the LeatherLyke hard saddlebags so it didn't
look too strange. It's pretty ratty now so I put the original ass buster
back on. It works for around town.



--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 1/3/26 16:35, rbowman wrote:

On Sat, 3 Jan 2026 08:42:02 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 03/01/2026 02:39, c186282 wrote:

On the flip, the USA currency system IS far more
-a clear than traditional British - 'decimal'.

The traditional British was not 'decimal'

That's for sure. I never did figure out pence, shillings, quid, bob,
pounds, and so forth, between the base system and the informal names.
Somehow I wound up with a 5 pence piece that was masquerading as a US
dime. It's not uncommon to get Canadian coins but I've not idea how that
one got introduced.

Well ... England ranks as one of those "most invaded"
countries. There was the apparent OP and then the
Beaker People came ... Romans ... finally Anglos, Saxons,
Normans and now Arabs. Everybody brought in their own
little systems for money and measure. For a time England
had a global empire too, and ideas from all those
colonies infiltrated as well. The language is a serious
pidgin, a mix of most everything in the world.

So yea, expect "confused" :-)

Somebody said "dollar" ... I think that term came
from Syria. NOT sure why the US founders picked
it up. Given alliances, I'd have expected them to
pick up 'francs' instead.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Sat, 3 Jan 2026 08:46:48 +0000, Mike Scott wrote:

https://pypi.org/project/astral/

Can't have too much of a good thing :-}

I have used this <https://packages.debian.org/trixie/python3-pysolar>.

I wonder if they give the same results though? Might be interesting
to cross-check them.

Like any good scientist. ;)
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 03/01/2026 21:56, c186282 wrote:

Somebody said "dollar" ... I think that term came
-a from Syria. NOT sure why the US founders picked
-a it up. Given alliances, I'd have expected them to
-a pick up 'francs' instead.

I said it and it's Germanic

"from early Flemish or Low German daler, from German T(h)aler, short for Joachimsthaler, a coin from the silver mine of Joachimsthal (rCyJoachim's valleyrCO), now J|ichymov in the Czech Republic. The term was later applied
to a coin used in the Spanish American colonies, which was also widely
used in the British North American colonies at the time of the American
War of Independence, hence adopted as the name of the US monetary unit
in the late 18th century."
--
"A point of view can be a dangerous luxury when substituted for insight
and understanding".

Marshall McLuhan


--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 03/01/2026 02:39, c186282 wrote:

On the flip, the USA currency system IS far more
-a clear than traditional British - 'decimal'.

On Sat, 3 Jan 2026 08:42:02 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

The traditional British was not 'decimal'

On 1/3/26 16:35, rbowman wrote:

That's for sure. I never did figure out pence, shillings, quid, bob,
pounds, and so forth, between the base system and the informal names.
Somehow I wound up with a 5 pence piece that was masquerading as a US
dime. It's not uncommon to get Canadian coins but I've not idea how that
one got introduced.

On 2026-01-03, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:

Well ... England ranks as one of those "most invaded"
countries. There was the apparent OP and then the
Beaker People came ... Romans ... finally Anglos, Saxons,
Normans and now Arabs. Everybody brought in their own
little systems for money and measure. For a time England
had a global empire too, and ideas from all those
colonies infiltrated as well. The language is a serious
pidgin, a mix of most everything in the world.

So yea, expect "confused" :-)

Somebody said "dollar" ... I think that term came
from Syria. NOT sure why the US founders picked
it up. Given alliances, I'd have expected them to
pick up 'francs' instead.

25 years ago, I assembled some notes on weird British things.
Now found at http://www.beagle-ears.com/lars/pages/showpage.cgi?humor_measures.page

As for the dollar: There was a fairly standard gold coin, issued by
several countries. I think it was called a dubloon. It was a bit too
large for everyday use, so people hacked it up into wedges 1/8 the
size, referred to as "pieces of eight" or individually as "bits".

One of these was the German "Joachimsthaler" - a coin minted in
Joachimsthal (wherever in Germany that may be) and "thaler" smoothed
down to becomme "dollar". So 25 cents = 1/4 dollar = two bits.
"Haircut and shave is - two bits!!"
--
Lars Poulsen - an old geek in Santa Barbara, California
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> writes:

On 1/3/26 16:35, rbowman wrote:

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 03/01/2026 02:39, c186282 wrote:

On the flip, the USA currency system IS far more
-a clear than traditional British - 'decimal'.

The traditional British was not 'decimal'

That's for sure. I never did figure out pence, shillings, quid, bob,
pounds, and so forth, between the base system and the informal names.
Somehow I wound up with a 5 pence piece that was masquerading as a US
dime. It's not uncommon to get Canadian coins but I've not idea how that
one got introduced.

Well ... England ranks as one of those "most invaded"
countries. There was the apparent OP and then the Beaker People came
... Romans ... finally Anglos, Saxons, Normans and now Arabs.

You missed out the Celts, Vikings and the Dutch, not to mention less consequential invasions by the French, Scots and Spanish. As for the
Arab expansion it never even reached the channel (Odo of Aquitaine
turned them back in the C8th) and I can reassure you that there is no
Arab invasion at present.
--
https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 1/3/26 18:38, Lars Poulsen wrote:

On 03/01/2026 02:39, c186282 wrote:

On the flip, the USA currency system IS far more
-a clear than traditional British - 'decimal'.

On Sat, 3 Jan 2026 08:42:02 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

The traditional British was not 'decimal'

On 1/3/26 16:35, rbowman wrote:

That's for sure. I never did figure out pence, shillings, quid, bob,
pounds, and so forth, between the base system and the informal names.
Somehow I wound up with a 5 pence piece that was masquerading as a US
dime. It's not uncommon to get Canadian coins but I've not idea how that >>> one got introduced.

On 2026-01-03, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:

Well ... England ranks as one of those "most invaded"
countries. There was the apparent OP and then the
Beaker People came ... Romans ... finally Anglos, Saxons,
Normans and now Arabs. Everybody brought in their own
little systems for money and measure. For a time England
had a global empire too, and ideas from all those
colonies infiltrated as well. The language is a serious
pidgin, a mix of most everything in the world.

So yea, expect "confused" :-)

Somebody said "dollar" ... I think that term came
from Syria. NOT sure why the US founders picked
it up. Given alliances, I'd have expected them to
pick up 'francs' instead.

25 years ago, I assembled some notes on weird British things.
Now found at http://www.beagle-ears.com/lars/pages/showpage.cgi?humor_measures.page

As for the dollar: There was a fairly standard gold coin, issued by
several countries. I think it was called a dubloon. It was a bit too
large for everyday use, so people hacked it up into wedges 1/8 the
size, referred to as "pieces of eight" or individually as "bits".

One of these was the German "Joachimsthaler" - a coin minted in
Joachimsthal (wherever in Germany that may be) and "thaler" smoothed
down to becomme "dollar". So 25 cents = 1/4 dollar = two bits.
"Haircut and shave is - two bits!!"

Someone else suggested 'Germanic' ... but that
may just be a random association based on 'how
it sounds'. Besides, the US founders did not
LIKE the Germans - they were mercenaries for
the Redcoats, and pretty nasty too.

Dunno, "doll-ARh" sounds Arabic to me ... and Euros
had long experience with those cultures by the
1700s.

I'll poke around and see if there's a sounds-alike
going back further than Germany, crusader times.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 1/3/26 18:41, Richard Kettlewell wrote:

c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> writes:

On 1/3/26 16:35, rbowman wrote:

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 03/01/2026 02:39, c186282 wrote:

On the flip, the USA currency system IS far more
-a clear than traditional British - 'decimal'.

The traditional British was not 'decimal'

That's for sure. I never did figure out pence, shillings, quid, bob,
pounds, and so forth, between the base system and the informal names.
Somehow I wound up with a 5 pence piece that was masquerading as a US
dime. It's not uncommon to get Canadian coins but I've not idea how that >>> one got introduced.

Well ... England ranks as one of those "most invaded"
countries. There was the apparent OP and then the Beaker People came
... Romans ... finally Anglos, Saxons, Normans and now Arabs.

You missed out the Celts, Vikings and the Dutch, not to mention less consequential invasions by the French, Scots and Spanish. As for the
Arab expansion it never even reached the channel (Odo of Aquitaine
turned them back in the C8th) and I can reassure you that there is no
Arab invasion at present.

There were so many invasions I abbreviated the list :-)

Oh, "Normans" WERE the Vikings, later more specifically
referred to the Nordics who had settled in France.

And the Arabs are Right NOW ...

Anyway, no WONDER the Brits are all mad ... what a
bizarre history ! :-)

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Sat, 3 Jan 2026 19:51:44 -0500, c186282 wrote:

Someone else suggested 'Germanic' ... but that may just be a random
association based on 'how it sounds'. Besides, the US founders did
not LIKE the Germans - they were mercenaries for the Redcoats, and
pretty nasty too.

The first German language newspaper in the colonies was published by Ben Franklin.

'Germany' didn't exist until the 19th century. 'Dutch' was the blanket
term, as in Pennsylvania Dutch or the entire colony of New Netherland so
there were plenty of what would now be called Germans before the Hessian mercenaries. They had no reason to love the Brits. They weren't so much loyalists as thinking along the lines of the Gibson character in 'The Patriot'.

Is it better to have one tyrant a thousand miles away or a thousand
tyrants one mile away?

Franklin's paper failed which did set the old pervert against Germans.


--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Sat, 3 Jan 2026 16:56:58 -0500, c186282 wrote:

Somebody said "dollar" ... I think that term came from Syria. NOT
sure why the US founders picked it up. Given alliances, I'd have
expected them to pick up 'francs' instead.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thaler

https://www.merriam-webster.com/wordplay/why-do-we-call-it-a-dollar
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> writes:

On 1/3/26 18:41, Richard Kettlewell wrote:

c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> writes:

On 1/3/26 16:35, rbowman wrote:

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 03/01/2026 02:39, c186282 wrote:

On the flip, the USA currency system IS far more
-a clear than traditional British - 'decimal'.

The traditional British was not 'decimal'

That's for sure. I never did figure out pence, shillings, quid, bob,
pounds, and so forth, between the base system and the informal names.
Somehow I wound up with a 5 pence piece that was masquerading as a US
dime. It's not uncommon to get Canadian coins but I've not idea how that >>>> one got introduced.

Well ... England ranks as one of those "most invaded"
countries. There was the apparent OP and then the Beaker People came
... Romans ... finally Anglos, Saxons, Normans and now Arabs.

You missed out the Celts, Vikings and the Dutch, not to mention less
consequential invasions by the French, Scots and Spanish. As for the
Arab expansion it never even reached the channel (Odo of Aquitaine
turned them back in the C8th) and I can reassure you that there is no
Arab invasion at present.

There were so many invasions I abbreviated the list :-)

Oh, "Normans" WERE the Vikings, later more specifically
referred to the Nordics who had settled in France.

Descended from Vikings for sure, but sufficiently intergated into the
French world of the time that theyrCOre best seen as distinct.

And the Arabs are Right NOW ...

No, yourCOve made that up, or more likely made the mistake of listening to someone else whorCOs made it up.
--
https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 03/01/2026 23:41, Richard Kettlewell wrote:

c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> writes:

On 1/3/26 16:35, rbowman wrote:

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 03/01/2026 02:39, c186282 wrote:

On the flip, the USA currency system IS far more
-a clear than traditional British - 'decimal'.

The traditional British was not 'decimal'

That's for sure. I never did figure out pence, shillings, quid, bob,
pounds, and so forth, between the base system and the informal names.
Somehow I wound up with a 5 pence piece that was masquerading as a US
dime. It's not uncommon to get Canadian coins but I've not idea how that >>> one got introduced.

Well ... England ranks as one of those "most invaded"
countries. There was the apparent OP and then the Beaker People came
... Romans ... finally Anglos, Saxons, Normans and now Arabs.

You missed out the Celts, Vikings and the Dutch, not to mention less consequential invasions by the French, Scots and Spanish. As for the
Arab expansion it never even reached the channel (Odo of Aquitaine
turned them back in the C8th) and I can reassure you that there is no
Arab invasion at present.

Out here about 60% of the land is arab owned...
--
I would rather have questions that cannot be answered...
...than to have answers that cannot be questioned

Richard Feynman



--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 04/01/2026 10:48, Richard Kettlewell wrote:

c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> writes:

On 1/3/26 18:41, Richard Kettlewell wrote:

c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> writes:

On 1/3/26 16:35, rbowman wrote:

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 03/01/2026 02:39, c186282 wrote:

On the flip, the USA currency system IS far more
-a clear than traditional British - 'decimal'.

The traditional British was not 'decimal'

That's for sure. I never did figure out pence, shillings, quid, bob, >>>>> pounds, and so forth, between the base system and the informal names. >>>>> Somehow I wound up with a 5 pence piece that was masquerading as a US >>>>> dime. It's not uncommon to get Canadian coins but I've not idea how that >>>>> one got introduced.

Well ... England ranks as one of those "most invaded"
countries. There was the apparent OP and then the Beaker People came >>>> ... Romans ... finally Anglos, Saxons, Normans and now Arabs.

You missed out the Celts, Vikings and the Dutch, not to mention less
consequential invasions by the French, Scots and Spanish. As for the
Arab expansion it never even reached the channel (Odo of Aquitaine
turned them back in the C8th) and I can reassure you that there is no
Arab invasion at present.

There were so many invasions I abbreviated the list :-)

Oh, "Normans" WERE the Vikings, later more specifically
referred to the Nordics who had settled in France.

Descended from Vikings for sure, but sufficiently intergated into the
French world of the time that theyrCOre best seen as distinct.

And the Arabs are Right NOW ...

No, yourCOve made that up, or more likely made the mistake of listening to someone else whorCOs made it up.

Indeed. The main invasions are afghanistan,. Pakistan and sub saharan
africa.
The arabs all go to France
--
I would rather have questions that cannot be answered...
...than to have answers that cannot be questioned

Richard Feynman



--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 04/01/2026 00:51, c186282 wrote:

Dunno, "doll-ARh" sounds Arabic to me ... and Euros
-a had long experience with those cultures by the
-a 1700s.

It's not a question of how it sounds to you.
It is a matter of fact.

-a I'll poke around and see if there's a sounds-alike
-a going back further than Germany, crusader times.

No, there isn't.

It's a corruption of ' Thaler', itself an abbreviation of Joachimsthaler
--
I would rather have questions that cannot be answered...
...than to have answers that cannot be questioned

Richard Feynman



--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 04/01/2026 05:42, rbowman wrote:

On Sat, 3 Jan 2026 19:51:44 -0500, c186282 wrote:

Someone else suggested 'Germanic' ... but that may just be a random
association based on 'how it sounds'. Besides, the US founders did
not LIKE the Germans - they were mercenaries for the Redcoats, and
pretty nasty too.

The first German language newspaper in the colonies was published by Ben Franklin.

In anthropology 'Germanic' refers to a broad group of peoples who
inhabited NW Europe at or about the time of the late Bronze age onwards

So Czechs, Dutch, Denmarks ,Swedes, swiss, flemish, Austrian as well as
the English and Germans are all 'germanic'.

It was the Romans, who encountered the Germanii, who coined the term to
refer largely to 'anyone who doesn't speak Latin'
--
ItrCOs easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. Mark Twain



--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Sat, 3 Jan 2026 23:38:02 -0000 (UTC), Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> wrote:

As for the dollar: There was a fairly standard gold coin, issued by
several countries. I think it was called a dubloon. It was a bit too
large for everyday use, so people hacked it up into wedges 1/8 the
size, referred to as "pieces of eight" or individually as "bits".

Ackshually, pieces of eight were *pesos de ocho*, the Spanish silver
dollars, which weighed eight *reales* rCo nearly eight troy ounces. It
was the first international currency. The American silver dollar was
almost the same weight and was intended to circulate "on par" with the
*peso*. When the Santa Fe Trail was opened, about 30% of the silver
dollars in circulation in the United States were in fact *pesos*.

+ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_dollar
--
Moreover I'm convinced that Reddit must be destroyed.

Worst Case

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

Er ... that would be one-ounce American silver dollars.
--
Moreover I'm convinced that Reddit must be destroyed.

Worst Case

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Sun, 4 Jan 2026 11:02:09 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 04/01/2026 05:42, rbowman wrote:

On Sat, 3 Jan 2026 19:51:44 -0500, c186282 wrote:

Someone else suggested 'Germanic' ... but that may just be a
random association based on 'how it sounds'. Besides, the US
founders did not LIKE the Germans - they were mercenaries for the
Redcoats, and pretty nasty too.

The first German language newspaper in the colonies was published by
Ben Franklin.

In anthropology 'Germanic' refers to a broad group of peoples who
inhabited NW Europe at or about the time of the late Bronze age onwards

So Czechs, Dutch, Denmarks ,Swedes, swiss, flemish, Austrian as well as
the English and Germans are all 'germanic'.

It was the Romans, who encountered the Germanii, who coined the term to
refer largely to 'anyone who doesn't speak Latin'

Varus, give me back my legions!
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 2026-01-02 08:56, c186282 wrote:

On 1/1/26 14:21, Lawrence DrCOOliveiro wrote:

On Thu, 01 Jan 2026 14:29:21 +1100, Peter 'Shaggy' Haywood wrote:

Groovy hepcat c186282 was jivin' in comp.os.linux.misc on Tue, 30
Dec 2025 03:25 am. It's a cool scene! Dig it.

Had some non-stick film, and duck tape.

Forgive the spelling correction here; but unless it quacks and
waddles, that's duct tape. :)

<https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/duck> Etymology 3, as in the material
the tape was made from.

It is rCLductrCY that is the misspelling.

-a "Duck" was a legal brand-name. Competitors
-a had to come up with a variant.

-a "Duck" tape was invented back during WW2 ...
-a a 'water-proof' super-sticky tape good for a
-a variety of military needs.

-a "Duck" or "Duct" ... STILL one of the most
-a useful things in the world-a :-)

Known here as "cinta americana", ie, american tape.

-a If you're into tape, DO check out "Alien Tape"
-a and variants. Based on "Gecko Toe" equivs ...
-a a zillion hyper-fine fibers that stick to
-a things via inherent micro molecular static
-a forces. You TWIST it a little to get it
-a loose, CAN wash it and re-use, it's not
-a an 'adhesive' per-se, not a 'glue'.

--
Cheers, Carlos.
ESEfc-Efc+, EUEfc-Efc|;
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 2026-01-03 09:41, Lawrence DrCOOliveiro wrote:

On Sat, 03 Jan 2026 06:09:31 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

True story: someone parked a Cub (or similar) out in the middle of
nowhere to go exploring. When he got back, a bear had shredded most
of the fabric fuselage. Fortunately, he had a number of rolls of
duc[tk] tape with him, and patched things up well enough to fly
home.

That I can believe. Why? Because it is not carrying any structural
load. ItrCOs just a covering, like the original fabric.

I know that some kind of tape is used for temporary repairs in comercial airplanes, say a hole in the wing. It is a special tape, maybe aluminum
film and something else. There are rules on how and where to use it.
--
Cheers, Carlos.
ESEfc-Efc+, EUEfc-Efc|;
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

Peter 'Shaggy' Haywood wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

gaffer tape is different, designed to come off cleanly when used e.g.
for marking positions on stage

No, gaffer tape is electrical tape. Gaffers are stage/movie/TV
electricians. They rig up wiring for the lighting, etc.

Doesn't stop the tape being used for various purposes, see description

<https://stagedepot.co.uk/essentials/tape#:~:text=Gaffer%20Tapes>

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 2026-01-05, Peter 'Shaggy' Haywood <phaywood@alphalink.com.au> wrote:

Groovy hepcat Andy Burns was jivin' in comp.os.linux.misc on Sat, 3 Jan
2026 01:56 am. It's a cool scene! Dig it.

Lars Poulsen wrote:

My nieces in Denmark call it Gaffer tape.

gaffer tape is different, designed to come off cleanly when used e.g.
for marking positions on stage

No, gaffer tape is electrical tape. Gaffers are stage/movie/TV electricians. They rig up wiring for the lighting, etc.

At least in the US since the latter 1970s for "gaffer tape" and
since the 1960s for "electrical tape", the two are drastically
different:

- electrical tape is stretchable, about 3/4" wide, and it is used
for wrapping bare wires to prevent short circuiting

- gaffer tape does not stretch substantially, is about 2" wide,
and is used for making sure (already-insulated) cables don't
move around on the floor, walls, etc.
--
Robert Riches
spamtrap42@jacob21819.net
(Yes, that is one of my email addresses.)
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 1/6/26 21:14, Robert Riches wrote:

On 2026-01-05, Peter 'Shaggy' Haywood <phaywood@alphalink.com.au> wrote:

Groovy hepcat Andy Burns was jivin' in comp.os.linux.misc on Sat, 3 Jan
2026 01:56 am. It's a cool scene! Dig it.

Lars Poulsen wrote:

My nieces in Denmark call it Gaffer tape.

gaffer tape is different, designed to come off cleanly when used e.g.
for marking positions on stage

No, gaffer tape is electrical tape. Gaffers are stage/movie/TV
electricians. They rig up wiring for the lighting, etc.

At least in the US since the latter 1970s for "gaffer tape" and
since the 1960s for "electrical tape", the two are drastically
different:

- electrical tape is stretchable, about 3/4" wide, and it is used
for wrapping bare wires to prevent short circuiting

- gaffer tape does not stretch substantially, is about 2" wide,
and is used for making sure (already-insulated) cables don't
move around on the floor, walls, etc.

Before everyone gets nasty, consider that there
is no EXACT def of 'gaffer tape'. I've seen wide
'electrical tape' marketed as such, also various
kinds of paper and cloth based tapes over the
years.

So don't get into the whole "How many angels on
the head of a pin" kind of religion here. Brands,
brand-names, commerce ... defs VARY and DRIFT.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 2026-01-07, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:

On 1/6/26 21:14, Robert Riches wrote:

On 2026-01-05, Peter 'Shaggy' Haywood <phaywood@alphalink.com.au> wrote:

Groovy hepcat Andy Burns was jivin' in comp.os.linux.misc on Sat, 3 Jan
2026 01:56 am. It's a cool scene! Dig it.

Lars Poulsen wrote:

My nieces in Denmark call it Gaffer tape.

gaffer tape is different, designed to come off cleanly when used e.g.
for marking positions on stage

No, gaffer tape is electrical tape. Gaffers are stage/movie/TV
electricians. They rig up wiring for the lighting, etc.

At least in the US since the latter 1970s for "gaffer tape" and
since the 1960s for "electrical tape", the two are drastically
different:

- electrical tape is stretchable, about 3/4" wide, and it is used
for wrapping bare wires to prevent short circuiting

- gaffer tape does not stretch substantially, is about 2" wide,
and is used for making sure (already-insulated) cables don't
move around on the floor, walls, etc.

Before everyone gets nasty, consider that there
is no EXACT def of 'gaffer tape'. I've seen wide
'electrical tape' marketed as such, also various
kinds of paper and cloth based tapes over the
years.

So don't get into the whole "How many angels on
the head of a pin" kind of religion here. Brands,
brand-names, commerce ... defs VARY and DRIFT.

True - but gaffer tape tends to be cloth-backed (visible fibers),
while "electrical tape" (at least in these parts) is a simple strip
of adhesive-coated plastic.

The chief differences between gaffer tape and duct tape are that
gaffer tape is usually black while duct tape is silver, and the
adhesive in gaffer tape doesn't leave as much nasty residue.
--
/~\ Charlie Gibbs | Growth for the sake of
\ / <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> | growth is the ideology
X I'm really at ac.dekanfrus | of the cancer cell.
/ \ if you read it the right way. | -- Edward Abbey
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 07/01/2026 06:33, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

The chief differences between gaffer tape and duct tape are that
gaffer tape is usually black while duct tape is silver, and the
adhesive in gaffer tape doesn't leave as much nasty residue.

In the UK back in the day the roadies all used the silver sort.
--
"Fanaticism consists in redoubling your effort when you have
forgotten your aim."

George Santayana

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 1/7/26 01:33, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

On 2026-01-07, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:

On 1/6/26 21:14, Robert Riches wrote:

On 2026-01-05, Peter 'Shaggy' Haywood <phaywood@alphalink.com.au> wrote: >>>

Groovy hepcat Andy Burns was jivin' in comp.os.linux.misc on Sat, 3 Jan >>>> 2026 01:56 am. It's a cool scene! Dig it.

Lars Poulsen wrote:

My nieces in Denmark call it Gaffer tape.

gaffer tape is different, designed to come off cleanly when used e.g. >>>>> for marking positions on stage

No, gaffer tape is electrical tape. Gaffers are stage/movie/TV
electricians. They rig up wiring for the lighting, etc.

At least in the US since the latter 1970s for "gaffer tape" and
since the 1960s for "electrical tape", the two are drastically
different:

- electrical tape is stretchable, about 3/4" wide, and it is used
for wrapping bare wires to prevent short circuiting

- gaffer tape does not stretch substantially, is about 2" wide,
and is used for making sure (already-insulated) cables don't
move around on the floor, walls, etc.

Before everyone gets nasty, consider that there
is no EXACT def of 'gaffer tape'. I've seen wide
'electrical tape' marketed as such, also various
kinds of paper and cloth based tapes over the
years.

So don't get into the whole "How many angels on
the head of a pin" kind of religion here. Brands,
brand-names, commerce ... defs VARY and DRIFT.

True - but gaffer tape tends to be cloth-backed (visible fibers),
while "electrical tape" (at least in these parts) is a simple strip
of adhesive-coated plastic.

The chief differences between gaffer tape and duct tape are that
gaffer tape is usually black while duct tape is silver, and the
adhesive in gaffer tape doesn't leave as much nasty residue.

The nasty residue bit can be important !

Note that even the term "electrical tape" is not
definitive. Most common now is the PVC stuff with
a sticky back. However before that it was very
much a 'rubber' tape with a little stickiness (you
can still buy it) and for inside work there was
an even earlier stuff called 'friction tape' which
was very lightly tacky cloth (which I also think
you can still get) that could handle more heat.

According to Amazon, THIS is "gaffer tape" :

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000QC0XZO/?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_plhdr=t&aaxitk=0ca390723e5c902307a9301a0ee7d132&hsa_cr_id=7503656610801&qid=1767829081&sr=1-1-9e67e56a-6f64-441f-a281-df67fc737124&ref_=sbx_s_sparkle_sbtcd_asin_0_img&pd_rd_w=5HvXD&content-id=amzn1.sym.9f2b2b9e-47e9-4764-a4dc-2be2f6fca36d%3Aamzn1.sym.9f2b2b9e-47e9-4764-a4dc-2be2f6fca36d&pf_rd_p=9f2b2b9e-47e9-4764-a4dc-2be2f6fca36d&pf_rd_r=Q4240N1Z3GKPKKEVPWBD&pd_rd_wg=or9jJ&pd_rd_r=e8f36554-8e7e-41a4-9793-4e75b13c652d

Described as :

11-mil thick black matte cloth gaffer's tape with rubber adhesive
conforms well to irregular surfaces for labeling, and temporary
securing and sealing applications

Adhesive removes cleanly from most surfaces

Tape resists abrasion and can be torn by hand

Can be used outdoors and withstands temperatures from 50 to
200 degrees F

Which seems similar to duck/duct tape but with a
less nasty adhesive.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

Groovy hepcat c186282 was jivin' in comp.os.linux.misc on Thu, 8 Jan
2026 10:45 am. It's a cool scene! Dig it.

On 1/7/26 01:33, Charlie Gibbs wrote:

On 2026-01-07, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:

On 1/6/26 21:14, Robert Riches wrote:

On 2026-01-05, Peter 'Shaggy' Haywood <phaywood@alphalink.com.au>
wrote:

Groovy hepcat Andy Burns was jivin' in comp.os.linux.misc on Sat,
3 Jan 2026 01:56 am. It's a cool scene! Dig it.

Lars Poulsen wrote:

My nieces in Denmark call it Gaffer tape.

gaffer tape is different, designed to come off cleanly when used
e.g. for marking positions on stage

No, gaffer tape is electrical tape. Gaffers are stage/movie/TV
electricians. They rig up wiring for the lighting, etc.

At least in the US since the latter 1970s for "gaffer tape" and
since the 1960s for "electrical tape", the two are drastically
different:

- electrical tape is stretchable, about 3/4" wide, and it is used
for wrapping bare wires to prevent short circuiting

- gaffer tape does not stretch substantially, is about 2" wide,
and is used for making sure (already-insulated) cables don't
move around on the floor, walls, etc.

Before everyone gets nasty, consider that there
is no EXACT def of 'gaffer tape'. I've seen wide
'electrical tape' marketed as such, also various
kinds of paper and cloth based tapes over the
years.

So don't get into the whole "How many angels on
the head of a pin" kind of religion here. Brands,
brand-names, commerce ... defs VARY and DRIFT.

Relax! Noone's getting nasty. We're just having a friendly discussion.
It's all good.

True - but gaffer tape tends to be cloth-backed (visible fibers),
while "electrical tape" (at least in these parts) is a simple strip
of adhesive-coated plastic.

The chief differences between gaffer tape and duct tape are that
gaffer tape is usually black while duct tape is silver, and the
adhesive in gaffer tape doesn't leave as much nasty residue.

The nasty residue bit can be important !

Note that even the term "electrical tape" is not
definitive.

That's true. It's more of a generic term for a range of different
tapes.

Most common now is the PVC stuff with
a sticky back. However before that it was very
much a 'rubber' tape with a little stickiness (you
can still buy it) and for inside work there was
an even earlier stuff called 'friction tape' which
was very lightly tacky cloth (which I also think
you can still get) that could handle more heat.

According to Amazon, THIS is "gaffer tape" :

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000QC0XZO/?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_plhdr=t&aaxitk=0ca390723e5c902307a9301a0ee7d132&hsa_cr_id=7503656610801&qid=1767829081&sr=1-1-9e67e56a-6f64-441f-a281-df67fc737124&ref_=sbx_s_sparkle_sbtcd_asin_0_img&pd_rd_w=5HvXD&content-id=amzn1.sym.9f2b2b9e-47e9-4764-a4dc-2be2f6fca36d%3Aamzn1.sym.9f2b2b9e-47e9-4764-a4dc-2be2f6fca36d&pf_rd_p=9f2b2b9e-47e9-4764-a4dc-2be2f6fca36d&pf_rd_r=Q4240N1Z3GKPKKEVPWBD&pd_rd_wg=or9jJ&pd_rd_r=e8f36554-8e7e-41a4-9793-4e75b13c652d

Described as :

11-mil thick black matte cloth gaffer's tape with rubber adhesive
conforms well to irregular surfaces for labeling, and temporary
securing and sealing applications

Adhesive removes cleanly from most surfaces

Tape resists abrasion and can be torn by hand

Can be used outdoors and withstands temperatures from 50 to
200 degrees F

Which seems similar to duck/duct tape but with a
less nasty adhesive.

Interesting!
But maybe the term means different things in different regions. In
these parts "gaffer tape" generally refers to PVC electricians' tape
with fairly strong(ish) adhesion. But I've often bought black cloth
tape similar to... y'know.. that other type of tape: the waddling &
quacking kind. ;) This has strong adhesion, so is not easily removed. I
can understand, and have no problem, if people call that gaffer tape.
Though it's not marketed as that here (as far as I've seen), it
certainly falls into the category of electricians' tape.
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From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Fri, 09 Jan 2026 12:13:14 +1100, Peter 'Shaggy' Haywood wrote:

But maybe the term means different things in different regions. In
these parts "gaffer tape" generally refers to PVC electricians' tape
with fairly strong(ish) adhesion. But I've often bought black cloth tape similar to... y'know.. that other type of tape: the waddling & quacking
kind. This has strong adhesion, so is not easily removed. I can
understand, and have no problem, if people call that gaffer tape.
Though it's not marketed as that here (as far as I've seen), it
certainly falls into the category of electricians' tape.

To further muddy the water when I was a kid we used friction tape for wire splices and many other things.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friction_tape

https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/electrical-construction-maintenance-us/ products/electrical-tapes/vinyl-electrical-tape/electrical-tape-history/

That matches my memories that Scotch 33 wasn't commonly used until the
'60s.

Then there's rubber tape.

https://www.musson.com/rubber-tape.html


Like it says for large motors and transformers we used ring tongue crimped
on connectors screwed together by short 8-32 screws and nuts, wrapped with rubber tape to make a nice, smooth ball, and then a layer of PVC for
abrasion resistance. PVC alone doesn't conform too well to that sort of splice.



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rbowman wrote:

To further muddy the water when I was a kid we used friction tape for wire splices and many other things.

And you can see how tapes like that developed over time to create e.g.
HPHT (hot pink hockey stick tape), or cohesive bandages (buy as 3M coban
if you're human, or as 3M vetwrap if you're a cheapskate).
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On Sat, 10 Jan 2026 10:20:16 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:

rbowman wrote:

To further muddy the water when I was a kid we used friction tape for
wire splices and many other things.

And you can see how tapes like that developed over time to create e.g.
HPHT (hot pink hockey stick tape), or cohesive bandages (buy as 3M coban
if you're human, or as 3M vetwrap if you're a cheapskate).

Yeah, I got a wad of that after the blood draw for my annual physical a
couple of weeks ago. Handy stuff. For a lot of things it works better than
the old Ace bandages that tried to unravel while you were putting the
clips on.
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On 1/10/26 15:07, rbowman wrote:

On Sat, 10 Jan 2026 10:20:16 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:

rbowman wrote:

To further muddy the water when I was a kid we used friction tape for
wire splices and many other things.

And you can see how tapes like that developed over time to create e.g.
HPHT (hot pink hockey stick tape), or cohesive bandages (buy as 3M coban
if you're human, or as 3M vetwrap if you're a cheapskate).

Yeah, I got a wad of that after the blood draw for my annual physical a couple of weeks ago. Handy stuff. For a lot of things it works better than the old Ace bandages that tried to unravel while you were putting the
clips on.

The new stuff that's very slightly self-sticky
IS a hell of a lot better than the original
stretch bandage fer sure.

However don't use it as electrical tape :-)

In the 20s/30s/40s the cloth "friction tape"
was widely used for indoor wiring. Of course
the wires were also 'insulated' by a cloth-weave
coating, not PVC or rubber. Rubber was for
outdoor wiring.

Friction tape is still sometimes used to bundle
wires, not so much as an insulator.

Most forget that flexible plastics were mostly
the product of the WW2 defense industry. For
example polyethylene was the godsend for
radar-frequency antenna cables. About the only
plastic anyone saw before the war was Bakelite,
but that's a rigid thermoset. "Rubber" came
from TREES ... it wasn't until the war they
came up with and used synthetic rubber in
the mix because there wasn't enough of the
natural stuff.

Well, there was one other 'plastic' - nitrocellulose.
Was rumored to EXPLODE sometimes and there's a reason
for the term "film/projector VAULT".

But hey ... the plastics industry had one immediate
civvie success - "nylons" :-)

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On Sat, 10 Jan 2026 20:45:00 -0500, c186282 wrote:

"Rubber" came
from TREES ... it wasn't until the war they came up with and used
synthetic rubber in the mix because there wasn't enough of the
natural stuff.

https://sternrubber.com/blog/rubber-wizard-menlo-park/

The Ft. Meyers museum is worth a visit. From there it's a short drive to Estero to bone up on the hollow earth theory.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koreshan_Unity

The Waco whackjob wasn't the first Koresh.
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On 1/11/26 01:02, rbowman wrote:

On Sat, 10 Jan 2026 20:45:00 -0500, c186282 wrote:

"Rubber" came
from TREES ... it wasn't until the war they came up with and used
synthetic rubber in the mix because there wasn't enough of the
natural stuff.

https://sternrubber.com/blog/rubber-wizard-menlo-park/

The Ft. Meyers museum is worth a visit. From there it's a short drive to Estero to bone up on the hollow earth theory.

Well, Edison's stuff IS worth it ... "hollow earth"
not so much.

NOW we KNOW it can't be 'hollow' ... but 100 years
ago they didn't. They imagined cool solid rock all
the way down. It's what they SAW ... ergo it HAD to
be the condition of the whole planet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koreshan_Unity

The Waco whackjob wasn't the first Koresh.

Oh, for sure.

Religious/ideological wackos are RIFE all through
our history and surely even before.

NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition !!!

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On 11/01/2026 01:45, c186282 wrote:

Most forget that flexible plastics were mostly
-a the product of the WW2 defense industry. For
-a example polyethylene was the godsend for
-a radar-frequency antenna cables. About the only
-a plastic anyone saw before the war was Bakelite,
-a but that's a rigid thermoset. "Rubber" came
-a from TREES ... it wasn't until the war they
-a came up with and used synthetic rubber in
-a the mix because there wasn't enough of the
-a natural stuff.

Yes. Prior to that there were organic plastics as it were (in the sense
of plant derived)

We had a set of encyclopedias dating from the 1920s in which 'gutta
percha' featured as an insulator.

Now used in dentistry.

Ebonite was a rubber derivative that was essentially a thermosetting
compound

Perspex and acrylics were developed pre-WWII.

Various wood saps were also used as glues in ancient times. Also hide
glue and fish glue and glue from hooves...all very similar...

Coal tar and wood tar products were used extensively.

-a Well, there was one other 'plastic' - nitrocellulose.
-a Was rumored to EXPLODE sometimes and there's a reason
-a for the term "film/projector VAULT".

Of course. cotton plus acid goes bang.

-a But hey ... the plastics industry had one immediate
-a civvie success - "nylons"-a EfOe

Yes, and rayon and acrylics etc etc.

Flexible thermoplastics won't go away if we stop using coal or fossil
fuels either. Although they may get more expensive.

The quantities required can be synthesised from many 'renewable'
feedstocks.
--
rCLPolitics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.rCY
rCo Groucho Marx

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On Sun, 11 Jan 2026 01:30:00 -0500, c186282 wrote:

Well, Edison's stuff IS worth it ... "hollow earth"
not so much.

NOW we KNOW it can't be 'hollow' ... but 100 years ago they didn't.
They imagined cool solid rock all the way down. It's what they SAW
... ergo it HAD to be the condition of the whole planet.

Teed's hollow earth was a little different.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollow_Earth#Concave_Hollow_Earths

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