From Quora
Douglas Jewell
Former Computer Technician (1994rCo2011) Sun
Question
Why do computer manufacturers not deliver consumer computers installed
with open source Linux operating systems instead of the Microsoft
Windows operating system? Does Microsoft pay them to do so?
Jewell's Answer
Way back in 2007 I worked for a computer retailer. We received a
shipment of a new tiny notebook PC made by Asus - the eeePC. It was
pretty low spec, but importantly was dirt cheap. It retailed for $399 Australian (probably about $199 US), which at the time was hundreds of dollars cheaper than its nearest competitor. Unusually, it shipped with Linux. Asus had their own customised distribution that made it pretty
easy to use. Primarily due to the low price point, they sold like hot- cakesrCa
And got returned almost as fast. rCLI canrCOt work out how to use itrCY, rCLit
wonrCOt run any softwarerCY were typical complaints. We burnt a crapload of money on them after we had to return a bucketload which we then tried to sell cheap as refurbs. At one stage we were selling them for $99 to try
and get rid of our stock, and they still came back.
A few months later, Asus brought out a new model. Same low-end spec hardware, but $100 (Australian) more expensive. The difference was the
more expensive model had Windows XP. Because the hardware was very low
end for XP it ran like a dog. But again because it was considerably less expensive than a real notebook, it sold like hot-cakes.
And we didnrCOt return any.
Once the XP version came out, and we were able to get appropriate
Windows drivers for the machines, we actually ended up buying retail
copies of windows xp (which I think cost us something like $150),
installed it on the Linux machines and sold them as refurbs $449, still
way below the cost of the machine + windows, but we were burning less
than we were trying to sell them with Linux. This way we could actually
get rid of the things.
ThatrCOs the reality of the industry. People preferred a machine that ran windows like a dog, and were willing to pay more for it, than a machine
that ran Linux well. Because at the end of the day, the operating system
is meaningless. People donrCOt use operating systems, they use
applications. A computer that doesnrCOt run their applications is useless
to them. Asus gambled on people just wanting to run things like email,
web browser, open office, etc, and the Linux version did all that and
more. But it would only take one application that wasnrCOt available on Linux for the whole thing to fail.
Now, these days there are notebooks sold with a customised Linux - we
call them Chromebooks. They benefit from the fact that there are better online applications, than back in 2007, but they are still quite limited compared to a Windows or Mac notebook.
Sure Linux does work ok for *some* desktop uses. And in the server space
it is fantastic. But even now, almost 20 years after the failed eeePC experiment, Linux on the desktop suffers most of the same shortcomings
it had then. The most critical of which is lack of application support.
Application support fails because Linux is not a platform that makes it
easy for closed-source software vendors to ship their product. The
trouble is, Linux is not an operating system. Linux is an operating
system kernel. What we typically know as Linux is more correctly GNU/
Linux - a suite of unix-like applications running on the Linux kernel.
But then things muddy even further - there is no single standard of GNU/ Linux either. ThererCOs the top distributions, such as Debian and RedHat
and a few others, then an absolute plethora of sub-distributions. And
there is no guarantee that any one of them will have any level of consistency.
When you sell application software for Windows, you know what the OS
will provide, and what libraries etc you are responsible for installing. ItrCOs straightforward. For Linux it is less clear cut. An installation
may or may not have certain libraries. You may need to install
dependencies, and how you doing so will vary depending on the
distribution. Unlike Windows there is no surety of binary compatibility.
I can install an application compiled for Windows XP in 2003 on a
Windows 11 PC and it will almost certainly still work as designed. If I
take a Linux binary compiled against a 2 year old version of the same distribution, itrCOs a gamble if it will run. If it is compiled against a different distribution it almost certainly wonrCOt run.
The upshot of this, is that for a software vendor to support Linux, it requires a whole lot of effort on their behalf. More than what is needed
to support Mac or Windows. Yet the potential Linux customer base is a
tiny fraction of the Mac or Windows customer base. If it takes more resources to target the 2% than to target the 98%, it doesnrCOt make economic sense to target the 2%. So we have a catch-22 - Linux doesnrCOt have the app support to capture market share, and it doesnrCOt have the market share to catch app support.
There is one final factor that makes it unlikely for vendors to bundle Linux, and it is related to the issue of so many distributions. Which version should they put on? If they install Ubuntu the customer would
want Fedora. Install Fedora and the customer would want Mint, etc etc
etc. Linux users generally like to have things customised their way, so
they are probably going to reinstall anyway. Even if the PC shipped with Windows, a Linux user can still install whatever form of Linux they want.
So these factors combined is why it is rare to find computers pre
installed with Linux. Ultimately it comes down to one key thing - it is
not a selling point. Having Linux preinstalled isnrCOt a selling point for Linux users, because they will want to install their own Linux, which is
the same amount of work to install over Windows. Windows or Mac users wonrCOt buy it because it doesnrCOt do what they want. It would be no cheaper than a pre-installed machine, because the slight cost saving by avoiding a Windows licence will be more than offset by increased costs
in assembly (by having a different software clone process), maintaining additional inventory, and in after-sales product support.
https://tinyurl.com/4s2nbpwr
https://www.quora.com/Why-do-computer-manufacturers-not-deliver- consumer-computers-installed-with-open-source-Linux-operating-systems- instead-of-the-Microsoft-Windows-operating-system-Does-Microsoft-pay- them-to-do-so
MS is doomed
50% of every country is shockingly stupid. That's why left-wing
governments always have a chance at getting elected.
W dniu 7.01.2026 o-a15:56, CrudeSausage pisze:
50% of every country is shockingly stupid. That's why left-wing
governments always have a chance at getting elected.
Now you are "shockingly stupid", at least to me. Each government of each country on the Earth pretend that is "democratic", but silently they
cheat each election and each referendum. Believe in such results like
51% for candidate A, and 49% for candidate B, is "shockingly stupid"
like using Mcro$lop Winblows.
On 2026-01-07 10:24, Efc|Efc#Jacek Marcin JaworskiEfc|Efc# wrote:
W dniu 7.01.2026 o-a15:56, CrudeSausage pisze:
50% of every country is shockingly stupid. That's why left-wing
governments always have a chance at getting elected.
Now you are "shockingly stupid", at least to me. Each government of
each country on the Earth pretend that is "democratic", but silently
they cheat each election and each referendum. Believe in such results
like 51% for candidate A, and 49% for candidate B, is "shockingly
stupid" like using Mcro$lop Winblows.
And I imagine that you have lots of evidence to support your argument, right? I'll make it easy for you: provide evidence that the latest
Polish election was stolen.
W dniu 7.01.2026 o-a16:29, CrudeSausage pisze:
On 2026-01-07 10:24, Efc|Efc#Jacek Marcin JaworskiEfc|Efc# wrote:
W dniu 7.01.2026 o-a15:56, CrudeSausage pisze:
50% of every country is shockingly stupid. That's why left-wing
governments always have a chance at getting elected.
Now you are "shockingly stupid", at least to me. Each government of
each country on the Earth pretend that is "democratic", but silently
they cheat each election and each referendum. Believe in such results
like 51% for candidate A, and 49% for candidate B, is "shockingly
stupid" like using Mcro$lop Winblows.
And I imagine that you have lots of evidence to support your argument,
right? I'll make it easy for you: provide evidence that the latest
Polish election was stolen.
RIGHT! There is the poof what I mention. MORE! There are two proofs! But
not from recent president election, but from 2015y. and 2020y.
quote: "2015 presidential campaign
[...]
In the second round Duda took 51.55% of the vote against the 48.45%
share of his rival, the incumbent president Bronis+eaw Komorowski."
quote: "In the first round of the 2020 presidential election, Duda
appeared to come in first, receiving almost 44% of the votes. Warsaw
mayor Rafa+e Trzaskowski came in second, with just over 30% of the vote.
The second round took place on 12 July.[16] Duda won reelection with 51.03%."
, source: art. under title: "Andrzej Duda", author: authors of
wikipedia, access/version from 2026-01-07, wed., URL:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrzej_Duda>
I suppose that probability to gain such results is less than 0.0000001%.
W dniu 7.01.2026 o-a16:29, CrudeSausage pisze:
On 2026-01-07 10:24, Efc|Efc#Jacek Marcin JaworskiEfc|Efc# wrote:
W dniu 7.01.2026 o-a15:56, CrudeSausage pisze:
50% of every country is shockingly stupid. That's why left-wing
governments always have a chance at getting elected.
Now you are "shockingly stupid", at least to me. Each government of
each country on the Earth pretend that is "democratic", but silently
they cheat each election and each referendum. Believe in such results
like 51% for candidate A, and 49% for candidate B, is "shockingly
stupid" like using Mcro$lop Winblows.
And I imagine that you have lots of evidence to support your argument,
right? I'll make it easy for you: provide evidence that the latest
Polish election was stolen.
RIGHT! There is the poof what I mention. MORE! There are two proofs! But
not from recent president election, but from 2015y. and 2020y.
quote: "2015 presidential campaign
[...]
In the second round Duda took 51.55% of the vote against the 48.45%
share of his rival, the incumbent president Bronis+eaw Komorowski."
quote: "In the first round of the 2020 presidential election, Duda
appeared to come in first, receiving almost 44% of the votes. Warsaw
mayor Rafa+e Trzaskowski came in second, with just over 30% of the vote.
The second round took place on 12 July.[16] Duda won reelection with 51.03%."
, source: art. under title: "Andrzej Duda", author: authors of
wikipedia, access/version from 2026-01-07, wed., URL:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrzej_Duda>
I suppose that probability to gain such results is less than 0.0000001%.
Also, why does Europe waste everyone's time having two rounds of elections?
Douglas Jewell
Former Computer Technician (1994rCo2011) Sun
Question
Why do computer manufacturers not deliver consumer computers installed
with open source Linux operating systems instead of the Microsoft
Windows operating system? Does Microsoft pay them to do so?
Jewell's Answer
<snip>
Now, these days there are notebooks sold with a customised Linux - we
call them Chromebooks. They benefit from the fact that there are better online applications, than back in 2007, but they are still quite limited compared to a Windows or Mac notebook.
Sure Linux does work ok for *some* desktop uses. And in the server space
it is fantastic. But even now, almost 20 years after the failed eeePC experiment, Linux on the desktop suffers most of the same shortcomings
it had then. The most critical of which is lack of application support.
<snip>
When you sell application software for Windows, you know what the OS
will provide, and what libraries etc you are responsible for installing.
<snip>
There is one final factor that makes it unlikely for vendors to bundle Linux, and it is related to the issue of so many distributions. Which version should they put on? If they install Ubuntu the customer would
want Fedora. Install Fedora and the customer would want Mint, etc etc
etc. Linux users generally like to have things customised their way, so
they are probably going to reinstall anyway. Even if the PC shipped with Windows, a Linux user can still install whatever form of Linux they want.
So these factors combined is why it is rare to find computers pre
installed with Linux. Ultimately it comes down to one key thing - it is
not a selling point. Having Linux preinstalled isnrCOt a selling point for Linux users, because they will want to install their own Linux, which is
the same amount of work to install over Windows. Windows or Mac users wonrCOt buy it because it doesnrCOt do what they want. It would be no cheaper than a pre-installed machine, because the slight cost saving by avoiding a Windows licence will be more than offset by increased costs
in assembly (by having a different software clone process), maintaining additional inventory, and in after-sales product support.
MS is doomed
W dniu 7.01.2026 o-a16:51, CrudeSausage pisze:
Also, why does Europe waste everyone's time having two rounds of
elections?
This is also not very wise question: I guest, that they just want to
pretend that they have over 50% votes, so that most voting people accept they cheating and robbing and stupid rule/government.
DFS wrote this post by blinking in Morse code:
Douglas Jewell
Former Computer Technician (1994rCo2011) Sun
Question
Why do computer manufacturers not deliver consumer computers installed
with open source Linux operating systems instead of the Microsoft
Windows operating system? Does Microsoft pay them to do so?
Jewell's Answer
<snip>
Makes sense.
Now, these days there are notebooks sold with a customised Linux - we
call them Chromebooks. They benefit from the fact that there are better
online applications, than back in 2007, but they are still quite limited
compared to a Windows or Mac notebook.
Not so sure about that. My two grandsons, and all their
classmates, use Chromebooks heavily every day at school.
Sure Linux does work ok for *some* desktop uses. And in the server space
it is fantastic. But even now, almost 20 years after the failed eeePC
experiment, Linux on the desktop suffers most of the same shortcomings
it had then. The most critical of which is lack of application support.
Heh heh. He means Microsoft application support.
<snip>
When you sell application software for Windows, you know what the OS
will provide, and what libraries etc you are responsible for installing.
:-D
<snip>
There is one final factor that makes it unlikely for vendors to bundle
Linux, and it is related to the issue of so many distributions. Which
version should they put on? If they install Ubuntu the customer would
want Fedora. Install Fedora and the customer would want Mint, etc etc
etc. Linux users generally like to have things customised their way, so
they are probably going to reinstall anyway. Even if the PC shipped with
Windows, a Linux user can still install whatever form of Linux they want.
So these factors combined is why it is rare to find computers pre
installed with Linux. Ultimately it comes down to one key thing - it is
not a selling point. Having Linux preinstalled isnrCOt a selling point for >> Linux users, because they will want to install their own Linux, which is
the same amount of work to install over Windows. Windows or Mac users
wonrCOt buy it because it doesnrCOt do what they want. It would be no
cheaper than a pre-installed machine, because the slight cost saving by
avoiding a Windows licence will be more than offset by increased costs
in assembly (by having a different software clone process), maintaining
additional inventory, and in after-sales product support.
This all is no-shit-sherlock material. People are fed Windows,
some jump to Macs, some schools and businesses find Chromebooks
(Chrome OS) is a Linux derivative, and some people are savvy
enough to deal with new type of software.
MS is doomed
You sound like a broken record.
You sound like a broken record.
MS is doomed
MS is doomed
MS is doomed
MS is doomed
MS is doomed
MS is doomed
MS is doomed
MS is doomed
AI Overview
Linux has a small but growing share in the desktop OS
market (around 4-6%), dominating in servers (over 40%),
supercomputers (100%), and embedded systems, with significant
developer adoption (around 28% for Ubuntu), showing strong
momentum in recent years, particularly in the U.S. (crossing
5% in 2025) and India (over 16%).
I'll say this much: I welcome Poland having a conservative government
which keeps the muhammedans out and allows Poles to live in peace.
Jewell's Answer
We received a shipment of a new tiny notebook PC made by Asus - the
eeePC. It was pretty low spec, but importantly was dirt cheap. ...
Unusually, it shipped with Linux. Asus had their own customised
distribution that made it pretty easy to use. Primarily due to the
low price point, they sold like hot-cakesrCa
And got returned almost as fast.
... but you repeat yourself.
Jewell's Answer
We received a shipment of a new tiny notebook PC made by Asus - the
eeePC. It was pretty low spec, but importantly was dirt cheap. ...
Unusually, it shipped with Linux. Asus had their own customised
distribution that made it pretty easy to use. Primarily due to the
low price point, they sold like hot-cakesrCa
And got returned almost as fast.
I remember these nonsensical rumours being spread around at the time
-- after all, I bought one myself when they were new!
Asus itself had to come out and deny that it was experiencing higher
return rates for the Linux-based netbooks. This seemed to be part of
some rumour campaign by, if not Microsoft itself, certainly parties
allied with that company.
That would seem to include present company ...
W dniu 7.01.2026 o-a17:22, CrudeSausage pisze:
I'll say this much: I welcome Poland having a conservative government
which keeps the muhammedans out and allows Poles to live in peace.
This is only half truth. The other half is that we have millions
Ukrainians which spread inlines forgotten many years ago. They are like
rats or lice or mosquitos. I personally catch some of that lines and
since many months I have some unknown pimples on my skin. I think, that
new pimples appear every time when I go in to local big food store where Ukrainians are employed.
Believe in such results like 51% for candidate A, and 49% for
candidate B, is "shockingly stupid" like using Mcro$lop Winblows.
Way back in 2007 I worked for a computer retailer. We received a
shipment of a new tiny notebook PC made by Asus - the eeePC. It was
pretty low spec, but importantly was dirt cheap. It retailed for $399 Australian (probably about $199 US), which at the time was hundreds of dollars cheaper than its nearest competitor. Unusually, it shipped with Linux. Asus had their own customised distribution that made it pretty
easy to use. Primarily due to the low price point, they sold like hot-cakesrCa
And got returned almost as fast. rCLI canrCOt work out how to use itrCY, rCLit
wonrCOt run any softwarerCY were typical complaints. We burnt a crapload of money on them after we had to return a bucketload which we then tried to
sell cheap as refurbs. At one stage we were selling them for $99 to try
and get rid of our stock, and they still came back.
... but you repeat yourself.
On Wed, 7 Jan 2026 16:24:05 +0100, Efc|Efc#Jacek Marcin JaworskiEfc|Efc# wrote:
Believe in such results like 51% for candidate A, and 49% for candidate
B, is "shockingly stupid" like using Mcro$lop Winblows.
ThatrCOs why a multiparty democracy is best. Here in NZ we currently have
6 parties in Parliament. ThatrCOs called rCLvoter choicerCY.
... but you repeat yourself.
Jewell's Answer
We received a shipment of a new tiny notebook PC made by Asus - the
eeePC. It was pretty low spec, but importantly was dirt cheap. ...
Unusually, it shipped with Linux. Asus had their own customised
distribution that made it pretty easy to use. Primarily due to the
low price point, they sold like hot-cakesrCa
And got returned almost as fast.
I remember these nonsensical rumours being spread around at the time
-- after all, I bought one myself when they were new!
Asus itself had to come out and deny that it was experiencing higher
return rates for the Linux-based netbooks. This seemed to be part of
some rumour campaign by, if not Microsoft itself, certainly parties
allied with that company.
That would seem to include present company ...
On 1/7/2026 3:37 PM, Lawrence DrCOOliveiro wrote:
... but you repeat yourself.
Jewell's Answer
We received a shipment of a new tiny notebook PC made by Asus - the
eeePC. It was pretty low spec, but importantly was dirt cheap. ...
Unusually, it shipped with Linux. Asus had their own customised
distribution that made it pretty easy to use. Primarily due to the
low price point, they sold like hot-cakesrCa
And got returned almost as fast.
I remember these nonsensical rumours being spread around at the time
-- after all, I bought one myself when they were new!
Asus itself had to come out and deny that it was experiencing higher
return rates for the Linux-based netbooks. This seemed to be part of
some rumour campaign by, if not Microsoft itself, certainly parties
allied with that company.
That would seem to include present company ...
"nonsensical rumors"?
The final refuge of a defeated Linux crazy is ALWAYS "<vendor> lied" or "You're a Microsoft shill !"
Fact is:
1)-a "An interview with MSI's director of US Sales, Andy Tung, contains
this interesting snippet: 'We have done a lot of studies on the return
rates and haven't really talked about it much until now. Our internal research has shown that the return of netbooks is higher than regular notebooks, but the main cause of that is Linux. People would love to pay $299 or $399 but they don't know what they get until they open the box.
They start playing around with Linux and start realizing that it's not
what they are used to. They don't want to spend time to learn it so they bring it back to the store. The return rate is at least four times
higher for Linux netbooks than Windows XP netbooks.'"
2) "...as a senior sales associate for a larger computer + electronics retailer, I can state for a fact that we get a substantially higher
return rate of Linux-based Aspire One and EEE PC's compared to that of
the Windows-based ones. The most common complaint when asked the reason
for the return? "I can't install any of my programs on here. Office,
Adobe, MSN, nothing works!" I try to take the time to assist them,
showing them where they can find comparable programs and install them,
such as GAIM/Pidgin and OpenOffice. Some are more than happy with that, others still want to return them. Lucky for them we have a pretty lax
return policy."
3)-a "I have not seen MSI's Linux installation, but the ASUS version of Xandros on my daughter's Eee PC 4G is an unusable piece of crap. The
most basic things don't work properly. A few of the snags I've run into:
it forgets about the wireless network after every restart so it has to
be reconfigured every time;
many dialog windows in programs such as Firefox don't fit on the screen
so that you can't even click on OK or Cancel to get rid of them because
the buttons are hidden (you have to alt-drag and then resize the window
but that's too much to ask for the average user, never mind a newbie);
Flash is crashy as hell (so much for my daughter's Flash games);
the "anti-virus" included plainly doesn't work, it can't even update
itself (not that it would be any use anyway);
Skype crashes at least once in every conversation;
the Software Update control panel doesn't seem to do anything;
the "Messenger" doesn't open any window when you click on it but just
keeps adding more useless icons to the system tray instead;
etc."
Never seen such a mess before. If I were not an experienced Linux user myself, I'd have returned it. If MSI's is even worse than that, then
wow... just wow.
all comments from https://linux.slashdot.org/story/08/10/05/123253/netbook-return-rates- much-higher-for-linux-than-windows
W dniu 7.01.2026 o 15:56, CrudeSausage pisze:
50% of every country is shockingly stupid. That's why left-wing
governments always have a chance at getting elected.
Now you are "shockingly stupid", at least to me. Each government of each country on the Earth pretend that is "democratic", but silently they
cheat each election and each referendum. Believe in such results like
51% for candidate A, and 49% for candidate B, is "shockingly stupid"
like using Mcro$lop Winblows.
The 2 party system exists for a simple reason. It guarantees
majority rule.
all cherry picked comments from https://linux.slashdot.org/story/08/10/05/123253/netbook-return-rates-much-higher-for-linux-than-windows
On Jan 7, 2026 at 10:24:05rC>AM EST, "Efc|Efc#Jacek Marcin JaworskiEfc|Efc#" <jmj@energokod.gda.pl> wrote:
W dniu 7.01.2026 o 15:56, CrudeSausage pisze:
50% of every country is shockingly stupid. That's why left-wing
governments always have a chance at getting elected.
Now you are "shockingly stupid", at least to me. Each government of
each country on the Earth pretend that is "democratic", but silently
they cheat each election and each referendum. Believe in such results
like 51% for candidate A, and 49% for candidate B, is "shockingly
stupid" like using Mcro$lop Winblows.
The 2 party system exists for a simple reason. It guarantees majority
rule.
If you have 4 people running for any office, 3 can get 20%, 25% and 25%
of the vote and the "winner" gets 30%. Great. The "winner" is the one
that 70% - the MAJORITY - did not vote for. How is that Representative?
THAT is "shockingly stupid".
The return rate is at least four times higher for Linux netbooks
than Windows XP netbooks.'"
DFS wrote this post by blinking in Morse code:
Douglas Jewell
Former Computer Technician (1994rCo2011) Sun
Question
Why do computer manufacturers not deliver consumer computers installed
with open source Linux operating systems instead of the Microsoft
Windows operating system? Does Microsoft pay them to do so?
Jewell's Answer
<snip>
Makes sense.
Now, these days there are notebooks sold with a customised Linux - we
call them Chromebooks. They benefit from the fact that there are better
online applications, than back in 2007, but they are still quite limited
compared to a Windows or Mac notebook.
Not so sure about that. My two grandsons, and all their
classmates, use Chromebooks heavily every day at school.
This all is no-shit-sherlock material.
People are fed Windows,
some jump to Macs, some schools and businesses find Chromebooks
(Chrome OS) is a Linux derivative, and some people are savvy
enough to deal with new type of software.
MS is doomed
You sound like a broken record.
You sound like a broken record.
MS is doomed
MS is doomed
MS is doomed
MS is doomed
MS is doomed
MS is doomed
MS is doomed
MS is doomed
AI Overview
Linux has a small but growing share in the desktop OS
market (around 4-6%), dominating in servers (over 40%),
supercomputers (100%), and embedded systems, with significant
developer adoption (around 28% for Ubuntu), showing strong
momentum in recent years, particularly in the U.S. (crossing
5% in 2025) and India (over 16%).
As I recall, the very first Chromebooks wouldn't let you save anything locally. I have to assume they long ago overcame that restriction.
They're still somewhat locked down vs Windows or other Linux distros,
but I did see you can run Android apps and install a "Linux environment"
on a Chromebook.
I wrote a ditty about it 14 years ago. Remember?
"N is for netbook, upon which Linux fails The people cried out "We want Windows for sale!"
The return rates were high, and for very good reason Lunix slop always
was and will be out of season"
The American rCLElectoral CollegerCY system makes this even worse.
Completely bizarre that anyone would put up with it.
Oh wait, itrCOs a hangover from slavery days ...
And *that* was where the higher return rate came from: it was
effectively the death knell of the rCLnetbookrCY as a separate product category. Microsoft couldnrCOt offer a product to compete fairly with
Linux in that category, so it used its still-massive marketing might to
kill the product category.
On Thu, 8 Jan 2026 02:34:42 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence DrCOOliveiro wrote:
The American rCLElectoral CollegerCY system makes this even worse.
Completely bizarre that anyone would put up with it.
Oh wait, itrCOs a hangover from slavery days ...
It isn't perfect but it does give a little protection to the rural states from getting fucked over by screaming purple haired critters of indeterminate sex from the various Sodoms and Gomorrahs here and there. A better solution would be a amicable divorce but Dishonest Abe showed the
US is a version of the Roach Motel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roach_Motel
On Thu, 8 Jan 2026 10:01:52 -0500, DFS wrote:
As I recall, the very first Chromebooks wouldn't let you save anything
locally. I have to assume they long ago overcame that restriction.
They're still somewhat locked down vs Windows or other Linux distros,
but I did see you can run Android apps and install a "Linux environment"
on a Chromebook.
We bought a Chromebook to test the web app we were developing. I didn't
get to play with it much but it wasn't altogether bad.
The current question is how many Chromebooks will be able to migrate to Aluminum OS? Sources say they are testing with the 12th Gen Alder Lake processors, so probably no guarantees for anything prior to 2021.
Chrome OS will be supported until it isn't.
I wrote a ditty about it 14 years ago. Remember?
<shitty ditty whingesnip>
Funny thing about that. I bought my Acer Aspire netbook in 2011 so it's about 14 years old. Part of it was replacing the HDD with a SSD but it's doing fine with Linux Mint 22.2, better than it ever did with Windows 7. Another old box saved from the landfill by Linux!
On Thu, 8 Jan 2026 05:39:04 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence DrCOOliveiro wrote:
And *that* was where the higher return rate came from: it was
effectively the death knell of the rCLnetbookrCY as a separate product
category. Microsoft couldnrCOt offer a product to compete fairly with
Linux in that category, so it used its still-massive marketing might to
kill the product category.
Dropping a SATA SSD in my 14 year old netbook did wonders. One drawback
is it no longer keeps my balls warm when I'm using it.
My ASUS "gamer's" laptop is also about 14 years old. I have it closed
but powered on so's I can shell into it now and then. Way old Ubuntu
install. It's sitting right next to me. The cat is laying on it because
it's warm.
On 9 Jan 2026 03:48:13 GMT, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 8 Jan 2026 05:39:04 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence DrCOOliveiro wrote:
And *that* was where the higher return rate came from: it was
effectively the death knell of the rCLnetbookrCY as a separate product
category. Microsoft couldnrCOt offer a product to compete fairly with
Linux in that category, so it used its still-massive marketing might
to kill the product category.
Dropping a SATA SSD in my 14 year old netbook did wonders. One drawback
is it no longer keeps my balls warm when I'm using it.
What do you use that netbook for? I just acquired a 2013 MacBook Air for
$30, and other than giving it to my boy to destroy, I can't figure out
what to do with it.
On 09 Jan 2026 13:59:10 GMT, CrudeSausage wrote:
On 9 Jan 2026 03:48:13 GMT, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 8 Jan 2026 05:39:04 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence DrCOOliveiro wrote:
And *that* was where the higher return rate came from: it was
effectively the death knell of the rCLnetbookrCY as a separate product >>>> category. Microsoft couldnrCOt offer a product to compete fairly with
Linux in that category, so it used its still-massive marketing might
to kill the product category.
Dropping a SATA SSD in my 14 year old netbook did wonders. One
drawback is it no longer keeps my balls warm when I'm using it.
What do you use that netbook for? I just acquired a 2013 MacBook Air
for $30, and other than giving it to my boy to destroy, I can't figure
out what to do with it.
Arduino development mostly. I use arduino-cli, vim, and minicom in i3.
Works well. I usually have a browser open for documentation in another workspace. It handle that fine with 4 GB without going into swap.
I used to take it with me when I was traveling. If it got damaged or
stolen no big deal. Even with Windows 7 it was usable although loading anything was slow due to the HDD. I think it might have been 540 rpm
rather than 5400.
On Fri, 9 Jan 2026 07:35:08 -0500, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
My ASUS "gamer's" laptop is also about 14 years old. I have it closed
but powered on so's I can shell into it now and then. Way old Ubuntu
install. It's sitting right next to me. The cat is laying on it because
it's warm.
Not on the cat's list of places to sleep. Right now I'm slow cooking a
pork shoulder so in front of the oven is the place to be, even better than one of the electric space heaters. It's a wonder she hasn't set her fur on fire.
No, cats cannot see infrared (IR) light in the way we think of
"vision," but they can detect it as heat using specialized receptors
in their skin and whiskers, which helps them find warm spots like
sunny patches or a recently used laptop.
You are only now revealing to us that the majority of people aren't too bright?
50% of every country is shockingly stupid. That's why left-wing
governments always have a chance at getting elected. I imagine that
those were the people buying $199 computers. After all, those shockingly stupid people are also generally poor, so the thought of a cheap
computer appeals to them, but using their minuscule brain for a moment
to figure out how the machine works is not worthwhile.
CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge>
news:695e7416$1$24$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com Wed, 07 Jan 2026 14:56:22
GMT in comp.os.linux.advocacy, wrote:
You are only now revealing to us that the majority of people aren't too
bright?
The OP is right. It's not always a case of a stupid indiviual either. It's just how things are in the real world. A far from perfect real world.
50% of every country is shockingly stupid. That's why left-wing
governments always have a chance at getting elected. I imagine that
those were the people buying $199 computers. After all, those shockingly
stupid people are also generally poor, so the thought of a cheap
computer appeals to them, but using their minuscule brain for a moment
to figure out how the machine works is not worthwhile.
It's not always a case of them being poor. If you've ever worked in a real repair shop, you'd understand the situation a bit better. It's a clusterfuck and a half, mind you, but...the OP is right.
If you want to change things, it starts with the user. And the applications they use. If the applications they are familiar with and use on a daily basis would run just fine under Linux, it wouldn't be an issue. But, not all applications are friendly towards Linux. Even with various stop gap measures in place, you'll run across one that just won't play nice on Linux.
I've got a client who has such a situation, sadly. I'd love to completely convert them to Linux. But, due to the fact they use a radon detection kit that has a specific software package that's Windows only, I can't currently do
so. If and win I can find a way to make that damn program play nice under Linux in some manner, then I can. I've contacted the manufacturer as well as looked up competing products which perform the same function. Short of building one myself and going thru the aggravation of writing the software from scratch to control it, they'll remain with Windows on a couple of laptops
and Linux on the rest of their gear. It's damn near perfection. One fucking app to go before I can migrate the Laptops over. :)
As I recall, the very first Chromebooks wouldn't let you save
anything locally. I have to assume they long ago overcame that
restriction.
... due to the fact they use a radon detection kit that has a
specific software package that's Windows only, I can't currently do
so. If and win I can find a way to make that damn program play nice
under Linux in some manner, then I can.
... but you repeat yourself.
On Thu, 8 Jan 2026 10:01:52 -0500, DFS wrote:
As I recall, the very first Chromebooks wouldn't let you save
anything locally. I have to assume they long ago overcame that
restriction.
Whereas Microsoft are moving in the opposite direction, arenrCOt they?
Taking away the option to save your documents locally, and forcing you
to put them in the cloud.
On Thu, 8 Jan 2026 10:01:52 -0500, DFS wrote:
As I recall, the very first Chromebooks wouldn't let you save anything
locally. I have to assume they long ago overcame that restriction.
They're still somewhat locked down vs Windows or other Linux distros,
but I did see you can run Android apps and install a "Linux environment"
on a Chromebook.
We bought a Chromebook to test the web app we were developing. I didn't
get to play with it much but it wasn't altogether bad.
The current question is how many Chromebooks will be able to migrate to Aluminum OS? Sources say they are testing with the 12th Gen Alder Lake processors, so probably no guarantees for anything prior to 2021.
Chrome OS will be supported until it isn't.
I wrote a ditty about it 14 years ago. Remember?
"N is for netbook, upon which Linux fails The people cried out "We want
Windows for sale!"
The return rates were high, and for very good reason Lunix slop always
was and will be out of season"
Funny thing about that. I bought my Acer Aspire netbook in 2011 so it's
about 14 years old. Part of it was replacing the HDD with a SSD but it's doing fine with Linux Mint 22.2, better than it ever did with Windows 7.
Another old box saved from the landfill by Linux!
On 1/13/2026 1:55 AM, Lawrence DrCOOliveiro wrote:
On Thu, 8 Jan 2026 10:01:52 -0500, DFS wrote:
As I recall, the very first Chromebooks wouldn't let you save
anything locally. I have to assume they long ago overcame that
restriction.
Whereas Microsoft are moving in the opposite direction, arenrCOt
they? Taking away the option to save your documents locally, and
forcing you to put them in the cloud.
You must've gotten hold of that special "Linux Advocate Edition" of
Windows 11.
On 1/13/2026 1:55 AM, Lawrence DrCOOliveiro wrote:
... but you repeat yourself.
On Thu, 8 Jan 2026 10:01:52 -0500, DFS wrote:
As I recall, the very first Chromebooks wouldn't let you save anything
locally. I have to assume they long ago overcame that restriction.
Whereas Microsoft are moving in the opposite direction, arenrCOt they?
Taking away the option to save your documents locally, and forcing you
to put them in the cloud.
You must've gotten hold of that special "Linux Advocate Edition" of
Windows 11.
... but you repeat yourself.microsoft_changing_office_to_autosave_documents/>
On Tue, 13 Jan 2026 18:25:28 -0500, DFS wrote:
On 1/13/2026 1:55 AM, Lawrence DrCOOliveiro wrote:
On Thu, 8 Jan 2026 10:01:52 -0500, DFS wrote:
As I recall, the very first Chromebooks wouldn't let you save
anything locally. I have to assume they long ago overcame that
restriction.
Whereas Microsoft are moving in the opposite direction, arenrCOt they?
Taking away the option to save your documents locally, and forcing you
to put them in the cloud.
You must've gotten hold of that special "Linux Advocate Edition" of
Windows 11.
I donrCOt know what yourCOve got hold of, but it certainly cannot be described as factual information about the platform you claim to be such
a fan of.
<https://www.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/1n1xadu/
On Tue, 13 Jan 2026 18:25:28 -0500, DFS wrote:
On 1/13/2026 1:55 AM, Lawrence DrCOOliveiro wrote:
... but you repeat yourself.
On Thu, 8 Jan 2026 10:01:52 -0500, DFS wrote:
As I recall, the very first Chromebooks wouldn't let you save anything >>>> locally. I have to assume they long ago overcame that restriction.
Whereas Microsoft are moving in the opposite direction, arenrCOt they?
Taking away the option to save your documents locally, and forcing you
to put them in the cloud.
You must've gotten hold of that special "Linux Advocate Edition" of
Windows 11.
Where is he wrong? If you don't use Rufus to create a modified version of the Windows ISO, the installation will require you to log in with your Microsoft account and will push for you to use OneDrive. By default, Microsoft Office also saves to the cloud rather than locally and will continue to push the cloud even after you've already saved a document locally.
I'm not sure why you're denying this. Anyone who has installed Windows
(and I have repeatedly, something you constantly point out) knows that Lawrence is being more or less honest here. Sure, they don't _force_ you
to put it on the cloud and they didn't remove the option to save locally, but they might as well have.
... but you repeat yourself.
On Tue, 13 Jan 2026 05:02:22 -0000 (UTC), Gremlin wrote:
... due to the fact they use a radon detection kit that has a
specific software package that's Windows only, I can't currently do
so. If and win I can find a way to make that damn program play nice
under Linux in some manner, then I can.
One obvious option is to help to get it running nicely under WINE,
perhaps by providing the necessary debug traces to the developers to
isolate the incompatibilities. It may already be 80-90% functional,
so the effort to fix the rest might be less than you think.
How much does the software cost? If you can spend some modest
proportion of that to get you out of your dependency on a proprietary
vendor, wouldnrCOt that be worth it?
CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge>
news:6966de54$5$20$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com Wed, 14 Jan 2026 00:07:48
GMT in comp.os.linux.advocacy, wrote:
On Tue, 13 Jan 2026 18:25:28 -0500, DFS wrote:
On 1/13/2026 1:55 AM, Lawrence DrCOOliveiro wrote:
... but you repeat yourself.
On Thu, 8 Jan 2026 10:01:52 -0500, DFS wrote:
As I recall, the very first Chromebooks wouldn't let you save
anything locally. I have to assume they long ago overcame that
restriction.
Whereas Microsoft are moving in the opposite direction, arenrCOt they? >>>> Taking away the option to save your documents locally, and forcing
you to put them in the cloud.
You must've gotten hold of that special "Linux Advocate Edition" of
Windows 11.
Where is he wrong? If you don't use Rufus to create a modified version
of the Windows ISO, the installation will require you to log in with
your Microsoft account and will push for you to use OneDrive. By
default, Microsoft Office also saves to the cloud rather than locally
and will continue to push the cloud even after you've already saved a
document locally.
I'm not sure why you're denying this. Anyone who has installed Windows
(and I have repeatedly, something you constantly point out) knows that
Lawrence is being more or less honest here. Sure, they don't _force_
you to put it on the cloud and they didn't remove the option to save
locally,
but they might as well have.
Ayep. MS wants things to go back to the old way; your computer is
effectively a dumb terminal with a recurring subscription model. This is their beginning way to foist this upon the consumer. And let's face it,
many a consumer are gullible enough to let them do this.
On Tue, 13 Jan 2026 23:43:44 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence DrCOOliveiro wrote:
On Tue, 13 Jan 2026 18:25:28 -0500, DFS wrote:microsoft_changing_office_to_autosave_documents/>
On 1/13/2026 1:55 AM, Lawrence DrCOOliveiro wrote:
On Thu, 8 Jan 2026 10:01:52 -0500, DFS wrote:
As I recall, the very first Chromebooks wouldn't let you save
anything locally. I have to assume they long ago overcame that
restriction.
Whereas Microsoft are moving in the opposite direction, arenrCOt they? >>>> Taking away the option to save your documents locally, and forcing you >>>> to put them in the cloud.
You must've gotten hold of that special "Linux Advocate Edition" of
Windows 11.
I donrCOt know what yourCOve got hold of, but it certainly cannot be
described as factual information about the platform you claim to be such
a fan of.
<https://www.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/1n1xadu/
Let's be honest, it's just a matter of time before DFS runs out of excuses
to defend Microsoft and joins us on the Linux side. He's resisting, but a
lot of people resisted admitting Christ's divinity too.
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