• Windows running like a dog preferred over Linux running well

    From DFS@nospam@dfs.com to comp.os.linux.advocacy on Wed Jan 7 09:07:36 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

    From Quora

    Douglas Jewell
    Former Computer Technician (1994rCo2011) Sun

    Question
    Why do computer manufacturers not deliver consumer computers installed
    with open source Linux operating systems instead of the Microsoft
    Windows operating system? Does Microsoft pay them to do so?


    Jewell's Answer
    Way back in 2007 I worked for a computer retailer. We received a
    shipment of a new tiny notebook PC made by Asus - the eeePC. It was
    pretty low spec, but importantly was dirt cheap. It retailed for $399 Australian (probably about $199 US), which at the time was hundreds of
    dollars cheaper than its nearest competitor. Unusually, it shipped with
    Linux. Asus had their own customised distribution that made it pretty
    easy to use. Primarily due to the low price point, they sold like hot-cakesrCa

    And got returned almost as fast. rCLI canrCOt work out how to use itrCY, rCLit wonrCOt run any softwarerCY were typical complaints. We burnt a crapload of money on them after we had to return a bucketload which we then tried to
    sell cheap as refurbs. At one stage we were selling them for $99 to try
    and get rid of our stock, and they still came back.

    A few months later, Asus brought out a new model. Same low-end spec
    hardware, but $100 (Australian) more expensive. The difference was the
    more expensive model had Windows XP. Because the hardware was very low
    end for XP it ran like a dog. But again because it was considerably less expensive than a real notebook, it sold like hot-cakes.

    And we didnrCOt return any.

    Once the XP version came out, and we were able to get appropriate
    Windows drivers for the machines, we actually ended up buying retail
    copies of windows xp (which I think cost us something like $150),
    installed it on the Linux machines and sold them as refurbs $449, still
    way below the cost of the machine + windows, but we were burning less
    than we were trying to sell them with Linux. This way we could actually
    get rid of the things.

    ThatrCOs the reality of the industry. People preferred a machine that ran windows like a dog, and were willing to pay more for it, than a machine
    that ran Linux well. Because at the end of the day, the operating system
    is meaningless. People donrCOt use operating systems, they use
    applications. A computer that doesnrCOt run their applications is useless
    to them. Asus gambled on people just wanting to run things like email,
    web browser, open office, etc, and the Linux version did all that and
    more. But it would only take one application that wasnrCOt available on
    Linux for the whole thing to fail.

    Now, these days there are notebooks sold with a customised Linux - we
    call them Chromebooks. They benefit from the fact that there are better
    online applications, than back in 2007, but they are still quite limited compared to a Windows or Mac notebook.

    Sure Linux does work ok for *some* desktop uses. And in the server space
    it is fantastic. But even now, almost 20 years after the failed eeePC experiment, Linux on the desktop suffers most of the same shortcomings
    it had then. The most critical of which is lack of application support.

    Application support fails because Linux is not a platform that makes it
    easy for closed-source software vendors to ship their product. The
    trouble is, Linux is not an operating system. Linux is an operating
    system kernel. What we typically know as Linux is more correctly
    GNU/Linux - a suite of unix-like applications running on the Linux
    kernel. But then things muddy even further - there is no single standard
    of GNU/Linux either. ThererCOs the top distributions, such as Debian and RedHat and a few others, then an absolute plethora of sub-distributions.
    And there is no guarantee that any one of them will have any level of consistency.

    When you sell application software for Windows, you know what the OS
    will provide, and what libraries etc you are responsible for installing. ItrCOs straightforward. For Linux it is less clear cut. An installation
    may or may not have certain libraries. You may need to install
    dependencies, and how you doing so will vary depending on the
    distribution. Unlike Windows there is no surety of binary compatibility.
    I can install an application compiled for Windows XP in 2003 on a
    Windows 11 PC and it will almost certainly still work as designed. If I
    take a Linux binary compiled against a 2 year old version of the same distribution, itrCOs a gamble if it will run. If it is compiled against a different distribution it almost certainly wonrCOt run.

    The upshot of this, is that for a software vendor to support Linux, it requires a whole lot of effort on their behalf. More than what is needed
    to support Mac or Windows. Yet the potential Linux customer base is a
    tiny fraction of the Mac or Windows customer base. If it takes more
    resources to target the 2% than to target the 98%, it doesnrCOt make
    economic sense to target the 2%. So we have a catch-22 - Linux doesnrCOt
    have the app support to capture market share, and it doesnrCOt have the
    market share to catch app support.

    There is one final factor that makes it unlikely for vendors to bundle
    Linux, and it is related to the issue of so many distributions. Which
    version should they put on? If they install Ubuntu the customer would
    want Fedora. Install Fedora and the customer would want Mint, etc etc
    etc. Linux users generally like to have things customised their way, so
    they are probably going to reinstall anyway. Even if the PC shipped with Windows, a Linux user can still install whatever form of Linux they want.

    So these factors combined is why it is rare to find computers pre
    installed with Linux. Ultimately it comes down to one key thing - it is
    not a selling point. Having Linux preinstalled isnrCOt a selling point for Linux users, because they will want to install their own Linux, which is
    the same amount of work to install over Windows. Windows or Mac users
    wonrCOt buy it because it doesnrCOt do what they want. It would be no
    cheaper than a pre-installed machine, because the slight cost saving by avoiding a Windows licence will be more than offset by increased costs
    in assembly (by having a different software clone process), maintaining additional inventory, and in after-sales product support.


    https://tinyurl.com/4s2nbpwr

    https://www.quora.com/Why-do-computer-manufacturers-not-deliver-consumer-computers-installed-with-open-source-Linux-operating-systems-instead-of-the-Microsoft-Windows-operating-system-Does-Microsoft-pay-them-to-do-so


    MS is doomed
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From CrudeSausage@crude@sausa.ge to comp.os.linux.advocacy on Wed Jan 7 09:56:22 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

    On 2026-01-07 09:07, DFS wrote:
    From Quora

    Douglas Jewell
    Former Computer Technician (1994rCo2011) Sun

    Question
    Why do computer manufacturers not deliver consumer computers installed
    with open source Linux operating systems instead of the Microsoft
    Windows operating system? Does Microsoft pay them to do so?


    Jewell's Answer
    Way back in 2007 I worked for a computer retailer. We received a
    shipment of a new tiny notebook PC made by Asus - the eeePC. It was
    pretty low spec, but importantly was dirt cheap. It retailed for $399 Australian (probably about $199 US), which at the time was hundreds of dollars cheaper than its nearest competitor. Unusually, it shipped with Linux. Asus had their own customised distribution that made it pretty
    easy to use. Primarily due to the low price point, they sold like hot- cakesrCa

    And got returned almost as fast. rCLI canrCOt work out how to use itrCY, rCLit
    wonrCOt run any softwarerCY were typical complaints. We burnt a crapload of money on them after we had to return a bucketload which we then tried to sell cheap as refurbs. At one stage we were selling them for $99 to try
    and get rid of our stock, and they still came back.

    A few months later, Asus brought out a new model. Same low-end spec hardware, but $100 (Australian) more expensive. The difference was the
    more expensive model had Windows XP. Because the hardware was very low
    end for XP it ran like a dog. But again because it was considerably less expensive than a real notebook, it sold like hot-cakes.

    And we didnrCOt return any.

    Once the XP version came out, and we were able to get appropriate
    Windows drivers for the machines, we actually ended up buying retail
    copies of windows xp (which I think cost us something like $150),
    installed it on the Linux machines and sold them as refurbs $449, still
    way below the cost of the machine + windows, but we were burning less
    than we were trying to sell them with Linux. This way we could actually
    get rid of the things.

    ThatrCOs the reality of the industry. People preferred a machine that ran windows like a dog, and were willing to pay more for it, than a machine
    that ran Linux well. Because at the end of the day, the operating system
    is meaningless. People donrCOt use operating systems, they use
    applications. A computer that doesnrCOt run their applications is useless
    to them. Asus gambled on people just wanting to run things like email,
    web browser, open office, etc, and the Linux version did all that and
    more. But it would only take one application that wasnrCOt available on Linux for the whole thing to fail.

    Now, these days there are notebooks sold with a customised Linux - we
    call them Chromebooks. They benefit from the fact that there are better online applications, than back in 2007, but they are still quite limited compared to a Windows or Mac notebook.

    Sure Linux does work ok for *some* desktop uses. And in the server space
    it is fantastic. But even now, almost 20 years after the failed eeePC experiment, Linux on the desktop suffers most of the same shortcomings
    it had then. The most critical of which is lack of application support.

    Application support fails because Linux is not a platform that makes it
    easy for closed-source software vendors to ship their product. The
    trouble is, Linux is not an operating system. Linux is an operating
    system kernel. What we typically know as Linux is more correctly GNU/
    Linux - a suite of unix-like applications running on the Linux kernel.
    But then things muddy even further - there is no single standard of GNU/ Linux either. ThererCOs the top distributions, such as Debian and RedHat
    and a few others, then an absolute plethora of sub-distributions. And
    there is no guarantee that any one of them will have any level of consistency.

    When you sell application software for Windows, you know what the OS
    will provide, and what libraries etc you are responsible for installing. ItrCOs straightforward. For Linux it is less clear cut. An installation
    may or may not have certain libraries. You may need to install
    dependencies, and how you doing so will vary depending on the
    distribution. Unlike Windows there is no surety of binary compatibility.
    I can install an application compiled for Windows XP in 2003 on a
    Windows 11 PC and it will almost certainly still work as designed. If I
    take a Linux binary compiled against a 2 year old version of the same distribution, itrCOs a gamble if it will run. If it is compiled against a different distribution it almost certainly wonrCOt run.

    The upshot of this, is that for a software vendor to support Linux, it requires a whole lot of effort on their behalf. More than what is needed
    to support Mac or Windows. Yet the potential Linux customer base is a
    tiny fraction of the Mac or Windows customer base. If it takes more resources to target the 2% than to target the 98%, it doesnrCOt make economic sense to target the 2%. So we have a catch-22 - Linux doesnrCOt have the app support to capture market share, and it doesnrCOt have the market share to catch app support.

    There is one final factor that makes it unlikely for vendors to bundle Linux, and it is related to the issue of so many distributions. Which version should they put on? If they install Ubuntu the customer would
    want Fedora. Install Fedora and the customer would want Mint, etc etc
    etc. Linux users generally like to have things customised their way, so
    they are probably going to reinstall anyway. Even if the PC shipped with Windows, a Linux user can still install whatever form of Linux they want.

    So these factors combined is why it is rare to find computers pre
    installed with Linux. Ultimately it comes down to one key thing - it is
    not a selling point. Having Linux preinstalled isnrCOt a selling point for Linux users, because they will want to install their own Linux, which is
    the same amount of work to install over Windows. Windows or Mac users wonrCOt buy it because it doesnrCOt do what they want. It would be no cheaper than a pre-installed machine, because the slight cost saving by avoiding a Windows licence will be more than offset by increased costs
    in assembly (by having a different software clone process), maintaining additional inventory, and in after-sales product support.


    https://tinyurl.com/4s2nbpwr

    https://www.quora.com/Why-do-computer-manufacturers-not-deliver- consumer-computers-installed-with-open-source-Linux-operating-systems- instead-of-the-Microsoft-Windows-operating-system-Does-Microsoft-pay- them-to-do-so


    MS is doomed

    You are only now revealing to us that the majority of people aren't too bright?

    50% of every country is shockingly stupid. That's why left-wing
    governments always have a chance at getting elected. I imagine that
    those were the people buying $199 computers. After all, those shockingly stupid people are also generally poor, so the thought of a cheap
    computer appeals to them, but using their minuscule brain for a moment
    to figure out how the machine works is not worthwhile.
    --
    CrudeSausage
    John 14:6
    Pop_OS!
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From =?UTF-8?B?8J+HtfCfh7FKYWNlayBNYXJjaW4gSmF3b3Jza2nwn4e18J+HsQ==?=@jmj@energokod.gda.pl to comp.os.linux.advocacy on Wed Jan 7 16:24:05 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

    W dniu 7.01.2026 o-a15:56, CrudeSausage pisze:
    50% of every country is shockingly stupid. That's why left-wing
    governments always have a chance at getting elected.

    Now you are "shockingly stupid", at least to me. Each government of each country on the Earth pretend that is "democratic", but silently they
    cheat each election and each referendum. Believe in such results like
    51% for candidate A, and 49% for candidate B, is "shockingly stupid"
    like using Mcro$lop Winblows.
    --
    Jacek Marcin Jaworski, Pruszcz Gd., woj. Pomorskie, PolskaEfc|Efc#, EUEfc-Efc|;
    tel.: +48-609-170-742, najlepiej w godz.: 5:15-5:55 lub 17:15-17:55; <jmj@energokod.gda.pl>, gpg: 4A541AA7A6E872318B85D7F6A651CC39244B0BFA;
    Domowa s. WWW: <https://energokod.gda.pl>;
    Mini Netykieta: <https://energokod.gda.pl/MiniNetykieta.html>;
    Mailowa Samoobrona: <https://emailselfdefense.fsf.org/pl>.

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From CrudeSausage@crude@sausa.ge to comp.os.linux.advocacy on Wed Jan 7 10:29:27 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

    On 2026-01-07 10:24, Efc|Efc#Jacek Marcin JaworskiEfc|Efc# wrote:
    W dniu 7.01.2026 o-a15:56, CrudeSausage pisze:
    50% of every country is shockingly stupid. That's why left-wing
    governments always have a chance at getting elected.

    Now you are "shockingly stupid", at least to me. Each government of each country on the Earth pretend that is "democratic", but silently they
    cheat each election and each referendum. Believe in such results like
    51% for candidate A, and 49% for candidate B, is "shockingly stupid"
    like using Mcro$lop Winblows.

    And I imagine that you have lots of evidence to support your argument,
    right? I'll make it easy for you: provide evidence that the latest
    Polish election was stolen.
    --
    CrudeSausage
    John 14:6
    Pop_OS!
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From =?UTF-8?B?8J+HtfCfh7FKYWNlayBNYXJjaW4gSmF3b3Jza2nwn4e18J+HsQ==?=@jmj@energokod.gda.pl to comp.os.linux.advocacy on Wed Jan 7 16:46:10 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

    W dniu 7.01.2026 o-a16:29, CrudeSausage pisze:
    On 2026-01-07 10:24, Efc|Efc#Jacek Marcin JaworskiEfc|Efc# wrote:
    W dniu 7.01.2026 o-a15:56, CrudeSausage pisze:
    50% of every country is shockingly stupid. That's why left-wing
    governments always have a chance at getting elected.

    Now you are "shockingly stupid", at least to me. Each government of
    each country on the Earth pretend that is "democratic", but silently
    they cheat each election and each referendum. Believe in such results
    like 51% for candidate A, and 49% for candidate B, is "shockingly
    stupid" like using Mcro$lop Winblows.

    And I imagine that you have lots of evidence to support your argument, right? I'll make it easy for you: provide evidence that the latest
    Polish election was stolen.

    RIGHT! There is the poof what I mention. MORE! There are two proofs! But
    not from recent president election, but from 2015y. and 2020y.

    quote: "2015 presidential campaign
    [...]
    In the second round Duda took 51.55% of the vote against the 48.45%
    share of his rival, the incumbent president Bronis+eaw Komorowski."

    quote: "In the first round of the 2020 presidential election, Duda
    appeared to come in first, receiving almost 44% of the votes. Warsaw
    mayor Rafa+e Trzaskowski came in second, with just over 30% of the vote.
    The second round took place on 12 July.[16] Duda won reelection with
    51.03%."

    , source: art. under title: "Andrzej Duda", author: authors of
    wikipedia, access/version from 2026-01-07, wed., URL:

    <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrzej_Duda>

    I suppose that probability to gain such results is less than 0.0000001%.
    --
    Jacek Marcin Jaworski, Pruszcz Gd., woj. Pomorskie, PolskaEfc|Efc#, EUEfc-Efc|;
    tel.: +48-609-170-742, najlepiej w godz.: 5:15-5:55 lub 17:15-17:55; <jmj@energokod.gda.pl>, gpg: 4A541AA7A6E872318B85D7F6A651CC39244B0BFA;
    Domowa s. WWW: <https://energokod.gda.pl>;
    Mini Netykieta: <https://energokod.gda.pl/MiniNetykieta.html>;
    Mailowa Samoobrona: <https://emailselfdefense.fsf.org/pl>.

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From =?UTF-8?B?8J+HtfCfh7FKYWNlayBNYXJjaW4gSmF3b3Jza2nwn4e18J+HsQ==?=@jmj@energokod.gda.pl to comp.os.linux.advocacy on Wed Jan 7 16:49:51 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

    W dniu 7.01.2026 o-a16:46, Efc|Efc#Jacek Marcin JaworskiEfc|Efc# pisze:
    W dniu 7.01.2026 o-a16:29, CrudeSausage pisze:
    On 2026-01-07 10:24, Efc|Efc#Jacek Marcin JaworskiEfc|Efc# wrote:
    W dniu 7.01.2026 o-a15:56, CrudeSausage pisze:
    50% of every country is shockingly stupid. That's why left-wing
    governments always have a chance at getting elected.

    Now you are "shockingly stupid", at least to me. Each government of
    each country on the Earth pretend that is "democratic", but silently
    they cheat each election and each referendum. Believe in such results
    like 51% for candidate A, and 49% for candidate B, is "shockingly
    stupid" like using Mcro$lop Winblows.

    And I imagine that you have lots of evidence to support your argument,
    right? I'll make it easy for you: provide evidence that the latest
    Polish election was stolen.

    RIGHT! There is the poof what I mention. MORE! There are two proofs! But
    not from recent president election, but from 2015y. and 2020y.

    quote: "2015 presidential campaign
    [...]
    In the second round Duda took 51.55% of the vote against the 48.45%
    share of his rival, the incumbent president Bronis+eaw Komorowski."

    quote: "In the first round of the 2020 presidential election, Duda
    appeared to come in first, receiving almost 44% of the votes. Warsaw
    mayor Rafa+e Trzaskowski came in second, with just over 30% of the vote.
    The second round took place on 12 July.[16] Duda won reelection with 51.03%."

    , source: art. under title: "Andrzej Duda", author: authors of
    wikipedia, access/version from 2026-01-07, wed., URL:

    <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrzej_Duda>

    I suppose that probability to gain such results is less than 0.0000001%.

    And you were right the same cheat they made in the last election in 2025y.

    quote: "On 1 June 2025, Nawrocki won the runoff election with 50.9% of
    votes, beating Trzaskowski, who received 49.1% of votes."

    , source: art. under title: "Karol Nawrocki", author: authors of
    wikipedia, access/version from 2026-01-07, wed., URL:

    <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karol_Nawrocki>
    --
    Jacek Marcin Jaworski, Pruszcz Gd., woj. Pomorskie, PolskaEfc|Efc#, EUEfc-Efc|;
    tel.: +48-609-170-742, najlepiej w godz.: 5:15-5:55 lub 17:15-17:55; <jmj@energokod.gda.pl>, gpg: 4A541AA7A6E872318B85D7F6A651CC39244B0BFA;
    Domowa s. WWW: <https://energokod.gda.pl>;
    Mini Netykieta: <https://energokod.gda.pl/MiniNetykieta.html>;
    Mailowa Samoobrona: <https://emailselfdefense.fsf.org/pl>.

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From CrudeSausage@crude@sausa.ge to comp.os.linux.advocacy on Wed Jan 7 10:51:08 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

    On 2026-01-07 10:46, Efc|Efc#Jacek Marcin JaworskiEfc|Efc# wrote:
    W dniu 7.01.2026 o-a16:29, CrudeSausage pisze:
    On 2026-01-07 10:24, Efc|Efc#Jacek Marcin JaworskiEfc|Efc# wrote:
    W dniu 7.01.2026 o-a15:56, CrudeSausage pisze:
    50% of every country is shockingly stupid. That's why left-wing
    governments always have a chance at getting elected.

    Now you are "shockingly stupid", at least to me. Each government of
    each country on the Earth pretend that is "democratic", but silently
    they cheat each election and each referendum. Believe in such results
    like 51% for candidate A, and 49% for candidate B, is "shockingly
    stupid" like using Mcro$lop Winblows.

    And I imagine that you have lots of evidence to support your argument,
    right? I'll make it easy for you: provide evidence that the latest
    Polish election was stolen.

    RIGHT! There is the poof what I mention. MORE! There are two proofs! But
    not from recent president election, but from 2015y. and 2020y.

    quote: "2015 presidential campaign
    [...]
    In the second round Duda took 51.55% of the vote against the 48.45%
    share of his rival, the incumbent president Bronis+eaw Komorowski."

    quote: "In the first round of the 2020 presidential election, Duda
    appeared to come in first, receiving almost 44% of the votes. Warsaw
    mayor Rafa+e Trzaskowski came in second, with just over 30% of the vote.
    The second round took place on 12 July.[16] Duda won reelection with 51.03%."

    , source: art. under title: "Andrzej Duda", author: authors of
    wikipedia, access/version from 2026-01-07, wed., URL:

    <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrzej_Duda>

    I suppose that probability to gain such results is less than 0.0000001%.

    So 44% of the vote for Duda and Trzaskowski got 30%. Who got the
    remaining 26% in the first round, and where did that 26% go in the
    second round?

    Also, why does Europe waste everyone's time having two rounds of elections?
    --
    CrudeSausage
    John 14:6
    Pop_OS!
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From =?UTF-8?B?8J+HtfCfh7FKYWNlayBNYXJjaW4gSmF3b3Jza2nwn4e18J+HsQ==?=@jmj@energokod.gda.pl to comp.os.linux.advocacy on Wed Jan 7 16:58:21 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

    W dniu 7.01.2026 o-a16:51, CrudeSausage pisze:
    Also, why does Europe waste everyone's time having two rounds of elections?

    This is also not very wise question: I guest, that they just want to
    pretend that they have over 50% votes, so that most voting people accept
    they cheating and robbing and stupid rule/government.
    --
    Jacek Marcin Jaworski, Pruszcz Gd., woj. Pomorskie, PolskaEfc|Efc#, EUEfc-Efc|;
    tel.: +48-609-170-742, najlepiej w godz.: 5:15-5:55 lub 17:15-17:55; <jmj@energokod.gda.pl>, gpg: 4A541AA7A6E872318B85D7F6A651CC39244B0BFA;
    Domowa s. WWW: <https://energokod.gda.pl>;
    Mini Netykieta: <https://energokod.gda.pl/MiniNetykieta.html>;
    Mailowa Samoobrona: <https://emailselfdefense.fsf.org/pl>.

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Chris Ahlstrom@OFeem1987@teleworm.us to comp.os.linux.advocacy on Wed Jan 7 11:13:23 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

    DFS wrote this post by blinking in Morse code:

    Douglas Jewell
    Former Computer Technician (1994rCo2011) Sun

    Question
    Why do computer manufacturers not deliver consumer computers installed
    with open source Linux operating systems instead of the Microsoft
    Windows operating system? Does Microsoft pay them to do so?

    Jewell's Answer

    <snip>

    Makes sense.

    Now, these days there are notebooks sold with a customised Linux - we
    call them Chromebooks. They benefit from the fact that there are better online applications, than back in 2007, but they are still quite limited compared to a Windows or Mac notebook.

    Not so sure about that. My two grandsons, and all their
    classmates, use Chromebooks heavily every day at school.

    Sure Linux does work ok for *some* desktop uses. And in the server space
    it is fantastic. But even now, almost 20 years after the failed eeePC experiment, Linux on the desktop suffers most of the same shortcomings
    it had then. The most critical of which is lack of application support.

    Heh heh. He means Microsoft application support.

    <snip>

    When you sell application software for Windows, you know what the OS
    will provide, and what libraries etc you are responsible for installing.

    :-D

    <snip>

    There is one final factor that makes it unlikely for vendors to bundle Linux, and it is related to the issue of so many distributions. Which version should they put on? If they install Ubuntu the customer would
    want Fedora. Install Fedora and the customer would want Mint, etc etc
    etc. Linux users generally like to have things customised their way, so
    they are probably going to reinstall anyway. Even if the PC shipped with Windows, a Linux user can still install whatever form of Linux they want.

    So these factors combined is why it is rare to find computers pre
    installed with Linux. Ultimately it comes down to one key thing - it is
    not a selling point. Having Linux preinstalled isnrCOt a selling point for Linux users, because they will want to install their own Linux, which is
    the same amount of work to install over Windows. Windows or Mac users wonrCOt buy it because it doesnrCOt do what they want. It would be no cheaper than a pre-installed machine, because the slight cost saving by avoiding a Windows licence will be more than offset by increased costs
    in assembly (by having a different software clone process), maintaining additional inventory, and in after-sales product support.

    This all is no-shit-sherlock material. People are fed Windows,
    some jump to Macs, some schools and businesses find Chromebooks
    (Chrome OS) is a Linux derivative, and some people are savvy
    enough to deal with new type of software.

    MS is doomed

    You sound like a broken record.
    You sound like a broken record.

    MS is doomed
    MS is doomed
    MS is doomed
    MS is doomed
    MS is doomed
    MS is doomed
    MS is doomed
    MS is doomed

    AI Overview

    Linux has a small but growing share in the desktop OS
    market (around 4-6%), dominating in servers (over 40%),
    supercomputers (100%), and embedded systems, with significant
    developer adoption (around 28% for Ubuntu), showing strong
    momentum in recent years, particularly in the U.S. (crossing
    5% in 2025) and India (over 16%).
    --
    In Hollywood, all marriages are happy. It's trying to live together
    afterwards that causes the problems.
    -- Shelley Winters
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From CrudeSausage@crude@sausa.ge to comp.os.linux.advocacy on Wed Jan 7 11:22:06 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

    On 2026-01-07 10:58, Efc|Efc#Jacek Marcin JaworskiEfc|Efc# wrote:
    W dniu 7.01.2026 o-a16:51, CrudeSausage pisze:
    Also, why does Europe waste everyone's time having two rounds of
    elections?

    This is also not very wise question: I guest, that they just want to
    pretend that they have over 50% votes, so that most voting people accept they cheating and robbing and stupid rule/government.

    I'll say this much: I welcome Poland having a conservative government
    which keeps the muhammedans out and allows Poles to live in peace. Had I
    not married a woman who doesn't speak Polish, I would probably have
    moved back to my parents' country and lived among peace-loving Catholics rather than every sort of Third World trash here in Canada.
    --
    CrudeSausage
    John 14:6
    Pop_OS!
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From CrudeSausage@crude@sausa.ge to comp.os.linux.advocacy on Wed Jan 7 11:22:55 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

    On 2026-01-07 11:13, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
    DFS wrote this post by blinking in Morse code:

    Douglas Jewell
    Former Computer Technician (1994rCo2011) Sun

    Question
    Why do computer manufacturers not deliver consumer computers installed
    with open source Linux operating systems instead of the Microsoft
    Windows operating system? Does Microsoft pay them to do so?

    Jewell's Answer

    <snip>

    Makes sense.

    Now, these days there are notebooks sold with a customised Linux - we
    call them Chromebooks. They benefit from the fact that there are better
    online applications, than back in 2007, but they are still quite limited
    compared to a Windows or Mac notebook.

    Not so sure about that. My two grandsons, and all their
    classmates, use Chromebooks heavily every day at school.

    Sure Linux does work ok for *some* desktop uses. And in the server space
    it is fantastic. But even now, almost 20 years after the failed eeePC
    experiment, Linux on the desktop suffers most of the same shortcomings
    it had then. The most critical of which is lack of application support.

    Heh heh. He means Microsoft application support.

    <snip>

    When you sell application software for Windows, you know what the OS
    will provide, and what libraries etc you are responsible for installing.

    :-D

    <snip>

    There is one final factor that makes it unlikely for vendors to bundle
    Linux, and it is related to the issue of so many distributions. Which
    version should they put on? If they install Ubuntu the customer would
    want Fedora. Install Fedora and the customer would want Mint, etc etc
    etc. Linux users generally like to have things customised their way, so
    they are probably going to reinstall anyway. Even if the PC shipped with
    Windows, a Linux user can still install whatever form of Linux they want.

    So these factors combined is why it is rare to find computers pre
    installed with Linux. Ultimately it comes down to one key thing - it is
    not a selling point. Having Linux preinstalled isnrCOt a selling point for >> Linux users, because they will want to install their own Linux, which is
    the same amount of work to install over Windows. Windows or Mac users
    wonrCOt buy it because it doesnrCOt do what they want. It would be no
    cheaper than a pre-installed machine, because the slight cost saving by
    avoiding a Windows licence will be more than offset by increased costs
    in assembly (by having a different software clone process), maintaining
    additional inventory, and in after-sales product support.

    This all is no-shit-sherlock material. People are fed Windows,
    some jump to Macs, some schools and businesses find Chromebooks
    (Chrome OS) is a Linux derivative, and some people are savvy
    enough to deal with new type of software.

    MS is doomed

    You sound like a broken record.
    You sound like a broken record.

    MS is doomed
    MS is doomed
    MS is doomed
    MS is doomed
    MS is doomed
    MS is doomed
    MS is doomed
    MS is doomed

    AI Overview

    Linux has a small but growing share in the desktop OS
    market (around 4-6%), dominating in servers (over 40%),
    supercomputers (100%), and embedded systems, with significant
    developer adoption (around 28% for Ubuntu), showing strong
    momentum in recent years, particularly in the U.S. (crossing
    5% in 2025) and India (over 16%).

    I'll say this much: since installing Pop_OS! 24.04, I haven't once
    suffered an fTPM stutter whereas I could get them two or three times a
    day with Windows.
    --
    CrudeSausage
    John 14:6
    Pop_OS!
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From =?UTF-8?B?8J+HtfCfh7FKYWNlayBNYXJjaW4gSmF3b3Jza2nwn4e18J+HsQ==?=@jmj@energokod.gda.pl to comp.os.linux.advocacy on Wed Jan 7 17:34:35 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

    W dniu 7.01.2026 o-a17:22, CrudeSausage pisze:
    I'll say this much: I welcome Poland having a conservative government
    which keeps the muhammedans out and allows Poles to live in peace.

    This is only half truth. The other half is that we have millions
    Ukrainians which spread inlines forgotten many years ago. They are like
    rats or lice or mosquitos. I personally catch some of that lines and
    since many months I have some unknown pimples on my skin. I think, that
    new pimples appear every time when I go in to local big food store where Ukrainians are employed.
    --
    Jacek Marcin Jaworski, Pruszcz Gd., woj. Pomorskie, PolskaEfc|Efc#, EUEfc-Efc|;
    tel.: +48-609-170-742, najlepiej w godz.: 5:15-5:55 lub 17:15-17:55; <jmj@energokod.gda.pl>, gpg: 4A541AA7A6E872318B85D7F6A651CC39244B0BFA;
    Domowa s. WWW: <https://energokod.gda.pl>;
    Mini Netykieta: <https://energokod.gda.pl/MiniNetykieta.html>;
    Mailowa Samoobrona: <https://emailselfdefense.fsf.org/pl>.

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?=@ldo@nz.invalid to comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy on Wed Jan 7 20:37:02 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

    ... but you repeat yourself.

    Jewell's Answer
    We received a shipment of a new tiny notebook PC made by Asus - the
    eeePC. It was pretty low spec, but importantly was dirt cheap. ...
    Unusually, it shipped with Linux. Asus had their own customised
    distribution that made it pretty easy to use. Primarily due to the
    low price point, they sold like hot-cakesrCa

    And got returned almost as fast.

    I remember these nonsensical rumours being spread around at the time
    -- after all, I bought one myself when they were new!

    Asus itself had to come out and deny that it was experiencing higher
    return rates for the Linux-based netbooks. This seemed to be part of
    some rumour campaign by, if not Microsoft itself, certainly parties
    allied with that company.

    That would seem to include present company ...
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Joel W. Crump@joelcrump@gmail.com to comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy on Wed Jan 7 16:06:25 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

    On 1/7/26 3:37 PM, Lawrence DrCOOliveiro wrote:

    ... but you repeat yourself.

    Jewell's Answer
    We received a shipment of a new tiny notebook PC made by Asus - the
    eeePC. It was pretty low spec, but importantly was dirt cheap. ...
    Unusually, it shipped with Linux. Asus had their own customised
    distribution that made it pretty easy to use. Primarily due to the
    low price point, they sold like hot-cakesrCa

    And got returned almost as fast.

    I remember these nonsensical rumours being spread around at the time
    -- after all, I bought one myself when they were new!

    Asus itself had to come out and deny that it was experiencing higher
    return rates for the Linux-based netbooks. This seemed to be part of
    some rumour campaign by, if not Microsoft itself, certainly parties
    allied with that company.

    That would seem to include present company ...


    I would obviously expect return rates to be moderate with either OS.
    --
    Joel W. Crump
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From CrudeSausage@crude@sausa.ge to comp.os.linux.advocacy on Wed Jan 7 18:03:38 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

    On 2026-01-07 11:34, Efc|Efc#Jacek Marcin JaworskiEfc|Efc# wrote:
    W dniu 7.01.2026 o-a17:22, CrudeSausage pisze:
    I'll say this much: I welcome Poland having a conservative government
    which keeps the muhammedans out and allows Poles to live in peace.

    This is only half truth. The other half is that we have millions
    Ukrainians which spread inlines forgotten many years ago. They are like
    rats or lice or mosquitos. I personally catch some of that lines and
    since many months I have some unknown pimples on my skin. I think, that
    new pimples appear every time when I go in to local big food store where Ukrainians are employed.

    However, they are employed. The muhammedans would be draining whatever
    welfare system you have there. They have no interest in assimiliating or working, just draining the taxpayers and replacing your population with
    more of them.
    --
    CrudeSausage
    John 14:6
    Pop_OS!
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?=@ldo@nz.invalid to comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy on Thu Jan 8 00:07:37 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

    ... but you repeat yourself.

    On Wed, 7 Jan 2026 16:24:05 +0100, Efc|Efc#Jacek Marcin JaworskiEfc|Efc# wrote:

    Believe in such results like 51% for candidate A, and 49% for
    candidate B, is "shockingly stupid" like using Mcro$lop Winblows.

    ThatrCOs why a multiparty democracy is best. Here in NZ we currently
    have 6 parties in Parliament. ThatrCOs called rCLvoter choicerCY.

    Microsoft and Apple -- rCLdemocracyrCY with only 2 parties to choose from.

    Linux -- a whole ecosystem of distro parties to choose from. And
    distro choice is not a zero-sum game: as they say, a rising tide
    floats all boats.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From rbowman@bowman@montana.com to comp.os.linux.advocacy on Thu Jan 8 00:43:07 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

    On Wed, 7 Jan 2026 09:07:36 -0500, DFS wrote:

    Way back in 2007 I worked for a computer retailer. We received a
    shipment of a new tiny notebook PC made by Asus - the eeePC. It was
    pretty low spec, but importantly was dirt cheap. It retailed for $399 Australian (probably about $199 US), which at the time was hundreds of dollars cheaper than its nearest competitor. Unusually, it shipped with Linux. Asus had their own customised distribution that made it pretty
    easy to use. Primarily due to the low price point, they sold like hot-cakesrCa

    And got returned almost as fast. rCLI canrCOt work out how to use itrCY, rCLit
    wonrCOt run any softwarerCY were typical complaints. We burnt a crapload of money on them after we had to return a bucketload which we then tried to
    sell cheap as refurbs. At one stage we were selling them for $99 to try
    and get rid of our stock, and they still came back.

    I still have mine and didn't have any problem using it. The only problem
    was the original Xandros system couldn't handle WPA2. It wasn't a hardware problem and Q4OS does fine as long as you don't get greedy and expect all
    the Trinity DE bells and whistles.

    I believe his story however. It correlates with my estimate of the intellectual ability of the general population.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From rbowman@bowman@montana.com to comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy on Thu Jan 8 00:56:31 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

    On Thu, 8 Jan 2026 00:07:37 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence DrCOOliveiro wrote:

    ... but you repeat yourself.

    On Wed, 7 Jan 2026 16:24:05 +0100, Efc|Efc#Jacek Marcin JaworskiEfc|Efc# wrote:

    Believe in such results like 51% for candidate A, and 49% for candidate
    B, is "shockingly stupid" like using Mcro$lop Winblows.

    ThatrCOs why a multiparty democracy is best. Here in NZ we currently have
    6 parties in Parliament. ThatrCOs called rCLvoter choicerCY.

    To say nothing of the King and Kiro...

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From DFS@nospam@dfs.com to comp.os.linux.advocacy on Wed Jan 7 20:00:58 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

    On 1/7/2026 3:37 PM, Lawrence DrCOOliveiro wrote:
    ... but you repeat yourself.

    Jewell's Answer
    We received a shipment of a new tiny notebook PC made by Asus - the
    eeePC. It was pretty low spec, but importantly was dirt cheap. ...
    Unusually, it shipped with Linux. Asus had their own customised
    distribution that made it pretty easy to use. Primarily due to the
    low price point, they sold like hot-cakesrCa

    And got returned almost as fast.

    I remember these nonsensical rumours being spread around at the time
    -- after all, I bought one myself when they were new!

    Asus itself had to come out and deny that it was experiencing higher
    return rates for the Linux-based netbooks. This seemed to be part of
    some rumour campaign by, if not Microsoft itself, certainly parties
    allied with that company.

    That would seem to include present company ...


    "nonsensical rumors"?

    The final refuge of a defeated Linux crazy is ALWAYS "<vendor> lied" or "You're a Microsoft shill !"

    Fact is:

    1) "An interview with MSI's director of US Sales, Andy Tung, contains
    this interesting snippet: 'We have done a lot of studies on the return
    rates and haven't really talked about it much until now. Our internal
    research has shown that the return of netbooks is higher than regular notebooks, but the main cause of that is Linux. People would love to pay
    $299 or $399 but they don't know what they get until they open the box.
    They start playing around with Linux and start realizing that it's not
    what they are used to. They don't want to spend time to learn it so they
    bring it back to the store. The return rate is at least four times
    higher for Linux netbooks than Windows XP netbooks.'"


    2) "...as a senior sales associate for a larger computer + electronics retailer, I can state for a fact that we get a substantially higher
    return rate of Linux-based Aspire One and EEE PC's compared to that of
    the Windows-based ones. The most common complaint when asked the reason
    for the return? "I can't install any of my programs on here. Office,
    Adobe, MSN, nothing works!" I try to take the time to assist them,
    showing them where they can find comparable programs and install them,
    such as GAIM/Pidgin and OpenOffice. Some are more than happy with that,
    others still want to return them. Lucky for them we have a pretty lax
    return policy."


    3) "I have not seen MSI's Linux installation, but the ASUS version of
    Xandros on my daughter's Eee PC 4G is an unusable piece of crap. The
    most basic things don't work properly. A few of the snags I've run into:

    it forgets about the wireless network after every restart so it has to
    be reconfigured every time;
    many dialog windows in programs such as Firefox don't fit on the screen
    so that you can't even click on OK or Cancel to get rid of them because
    the buttons are hidden (you have to alt-drag and then resize the window
    but that's too much to ask for the average user, never mind a newbie);
    Flash is crashy as hell (so much for my daughter's Flash games);
    the "anti-virus" included plainly doesn't work, it can't even update
    itself (not that it would be any use anyway);
    Skype crashes at least once in every conversation;
    the Software Update control panel doesn't seem to do anything;
    the "Messenger" doesn't open any window when you click on it but just
    keeps adding more useless icons to the system tray instead;
    etc."

    Never seen such a mess before. If I were not an experienced Linux user
    myself, I'd have returned it. If MSI's is even worse than that, then
    wow... just wow.


    all comments from https://linux.slashdot.org/story/08/10/05/123253/netbook-return-rates-much-higher-for-linux-than-windows


    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From CrudeSausage@crude@sausa.ge to comp.os.linux.advocacy on Wed Jan 7 20:28:41 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

    On 2026-01-07 20:00, DFS wrote:
    On 1/7/2026 3:37 PM, Lawrence DrCOOliveiro wrote:
    ... but you repeat yourself.

    Jewell's Answer
    We received a shipment of a new tiny notebook PC made by Asus - the
    eeePC. It was pretty low spec, but importantly was dirt cheap. ...
    Unusually, it shipped with Linux. Asus had their own customised
    distribution that made it pretty easy to use. Primarily due to the
    low price point, they sold like hot-cakesrCa

    And got returned almost as fast.

    I remember these nonsensical rumours being spread around at the time
    -- after all, I bought one myself when they were new!

    Asus itself had to come out and deny that it was experiencing higher
    return rates for the Linux-based netbooks. This seemed to be part of
    some rumour campaign by, if not Microsoft itself, certainly parties
    allied with that company.

    That would seem to include present company ...


    "nonsensical rumors"?

    The final refuge of a defeated Linux crazy is ALWAYS "<vendor> lied" or "You're a Microsoft shill !"

    Fact is:

    1)-a "An interview with MSI's director of US Sales, Andy Tung, contains
    this interesting snippet: 'We have done a lot of studies on the return
    rates and haven't really talked about it much until now. Our internal research has shown that the return of netbooks is higher than regular notebooks, but the main cause of that is Linux. People would love to pay $299 or $399 but they don't know what they get until they open the box.
    They start playing around with Linux and start realizing that it's not
    what they are used to. They don't want to spend time to learn it so they bring it back to the store. The return rate is at least four times
    higher for Linux netbooks than Windows XP netbooks.'"

    Like I said, half the population is stupid and refuses to learn anything
    new or do a slight amount of research.

    2) "...as a senior sales associate for a larger computer + electronics retailer, I can state for a fact that we get a substantially higher
    return rate of Linux-based Aspire One and EEE PC's compared to that of
    the Windows-based ones. The most common complaint when asked the reason
    for the return? "I can't install any of my programs on here. Office,
    Adobe, MSN, nothing works!" I try to take the time to assist them,
    showing them where they can find comparable programs and install them,
    such as GAIM/Pidgin and OpenOffice. Some are more than happy with that, others still want to return them. Lucky for them we have a pretty lax
    return policy."

    This was the experience with teachers at one of the schools I was at
    about a decade ago. Every computer provided by work had LibreOffice, but
    they used Microsoft Office at home. It didn't matter that LibreOffice
    did all the same stuff; the document looked slightly different and the functions they were looking for were somewhere else. Rather than learn
    the new program, they wanted the familiar suite.

    3)-a "I have not seen MSI's Linux installation, but the ASUS version of Xandros on my daughter's Eee PC 4G is an unusable piece of crap. The
    most basic things don't work properly. A few of the snags I've run into:

    it forgets about the wireless network after every restart so it has to
    be reconfigured every time;
    many dialog windows in programs such as Firefox don't fit on the screen
    so that you can't even click on OK or Cancel to get rid of them because
    the buttons are hidden (you have to alt-drag and then resize the window
    but that's too much to ask for the average user, never mind a newbie);
    Flash is crashy as hell (so much for my daughter's Flash games);
    the "anti-virus" included plainly doesn't work, it can't even update
    itself (not that it would be any use anyway);
    Skype crashes at least once in every conversation;
    the Software Update control panel doesn't seem to do anything;
    the "Messenger" doesn't open any window when you click on it but just
    keeps adding more useless icons to the system tray instead;
    etc."

    I can confirm that to be true of Firefox and Thunderbird to this day. Sometimes, the default size of windows hides the Ok and Cancel buttons
    for no reason, and you have to resize it to make it appear. That is only someone with experience would know to do because you would have no other reason to assume that there is supposed to be an Ok or Cancel button otherwise.

    Never seen such a mess before. If I were not an experienced Linux user myself, I'd have returned it. If MSI's is even worse than that, then
    wow... just wow.


    all comments from https://linux.slashdot.org/story/08/10/05/123253/netbook-return-rates- much-higher-for-linux-than-windows

    MSI doesn't make the best of hardware (their panels are awful) even
    though most of their stock is highly repairable. I would assume that the distribution they chose to use was not too friendly with new users.
    --
    CrudeSausage
    John 14:6
    Pop_OS!
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Tyrone@none@none.none to comp.os.linux.advocacy on Thu Jan 8 01:46:10 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

    On Jan 7, 2026 at 10:24:05rC>AM EST, "Efc|Efc#Jacek Marcin JaworskiEfc|Efc#" <jmj@energokod.gda.pl> wrote:

    W dniu 7.01.2026 o 15:56, CrudeSausage pisze:
    50% of every country is shockingly stupid. That's why left-wing
    governments always have a chance at getting elected.

    Now you are "shockingly stupid", at least to me. Each government of each country on the Earth pretend that is "democratic", but silently they
    cheat each election and each referendum. Believe in such results like
    51% for candidate A, and 49% for candidate B, is "shockingly stupid"
    like using Mcro$lop Winblows.

    The 2 party system exists for a simple reason. It guarantees majority rule.

    If you have 4 people running for any office, 3 can get 20%, 25% and 25% of the vote and the "winner" gets 30%. Great. The "winner" is the one that 70% - the MAJORITY - did not vote for. How is that Representative?

    THAT is "shockingly stupid".
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?=@ldo@nz.invalid to comp.os.linux.advocacy on Thu Jan 8 02:34:42 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

    ... but you repeat yourself.

    On Thu, 08 Jan 2026 01:46:10 +0000, Tyrone wrote:

    The 2 party system exists for a simple reason. It guarantees
    majority rule.

    2-party systems inevitably go hand-in-hand with rCLfirst-past-the-postrCY voting systems. You get this in the UK, and we used to get it in NZ
    before we moved to proportional representation: the party that won a
    majority of the seats often got in with a minority of the popular
    vote.

    The American rCLElectoral CollegerCY system makes this even worse.
    Completely bizarre that anyone would put up with it.

    Oh wait, itrCOs a hangover from slavery days ...
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From rbowman@bowman@montana.com to comp.os.linux.advocacy on Thu Jan 8 02:38:16 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

    On Wed, 7 Jan 2026 20:00:58 -0500, DFS wrote:



    all cherry picked comments from https://linux.slashdot.org/story/08/10/05/123253/netbook-return-rates-
    much-higher-for-linux-than-windows

    Fixed your text. You're welcome. The real question is who is dumber?
    Someone who buys a clearly labeled Linux netbook and is upset when they
    can't run Windows programs or someone who bought a Windows RT hybrid
    tablet and found they couldn't run their favorite Windows programs on it?
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From rbowman@bowman@montana.com to comp.os.linux.advocacy on Thu Jan 8 02:45:45 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

    On Thu, 08 Jan 2026 01:46:10 +0000, Tyrone wrote:

    On Jan 7, 2026 at 10:24:05rC>AM EST, "Efc|Efc#Jacek Marcin JaworskiEfc|Efc#" <jmj@energokod.gda.pl> wrote:

    W dniu 7.01.2026 o 15:56, CrudeSausage pisze:
    50% of every country is shockingly stupid. That's why left-wing
    governments always have a chance at getting elected.

    Now you are "shockingly stupid", at least to me. Each government of
    each country on the Earth pretend that is "democratic", but silently
    they cheat each election and each referendum. Believe in such results
    like 51% for candidate A, and 49% for candidate B, is "shockingly
    stupid" like using Mcro$lop Winblows.

    The 2 party system exists for a simple reason. It guarantees majority
    rule.

    If you have 4 people running for any office, 3 can get 20%, 25% and 25%
    of the vote and the "winner" gets 30%. Great. The "winner" is the one
    that 70% - the MAJORITY - did not vote for. How is that Representative?

    THAT is "shockingly stupid".

    otoh very few US presidential elections have been anywhere near what could
    be called a landslide. Rounding off a bit in most elections 50% of the electorate considers the other 50% to be depraved donkey fuckers.

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?=@ldo@nz.invalid to comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy on Thu Jan 8 05:39:04 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

    ... but you repeat yourself.

    On Wed, 7 Jan 2026 20:00:58 -0500, DFS wrote:

    The return rate is at least four times higher for Linux netbooks
    than Windows XP netbooks.'"

    I donrCOt recall that sort of claim being made credibly at the time. Not surprising, since there are a few problems with it.

    Remember that those Linux-based netbooks didnrCOt have hard drives, they
    had SSDs -- the first mass-market machines to come with in-built SSDs.
    That was great for lowering power consumption and making the overall
    product quieter, smaller and lighter.

    Microsoft couldnrCOt fight back with the bloated monstrosity that was
    Windows Vista. So they hastily brought Windows XP back from the edge
    of extinction, so it could be offered as a Linux alternative.

    Besides being a second-rate, obsolescent OS, XP was a poor fit for
    SSD-based machines. It couldnrCOt run without a swap file, like Linux
    could. So all that continual disk I/O, which users of Windows laptops
    had to put up with, ended up shortening the life of the SSDs.

    So the XP-based rCLnetbooksrCY had to give up the SSD idea and go back to conventional hard drives. This increased the noise level, the size,
    and also the weight of the products.

    And *that* was where the higher return rate came from: it was
    effectively the death knell of the rCLnetbookrCY as a separate product category. Microsoft couldnrCOt offer a product to compete fairly with
    Linux in that category, so it used its still-massive marketing might
    to kill the product category.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From DFS@nospam@dfs.com to comp.os.linux.advocacy on Thu Jan 8 10:01:52 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

    On 1/7/2026 11:13 AM, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
    DFS wrote this post by blinking in Morse code:

    Douglas Jewell
    Former Computer Technician (1994rCo2011) Sun

    Question
    Why do computer manufacturers not deliver consumer computers installed
    with open source Linux operating systems instead of the Microsoft
    Windows operating system? Does Microsoft pay them to do so?

    Jewell's Answer

    <snip>

    Makes sense.

    Now, these days there are notebooks sold with a customised Linux - we
    call them Chromebooks. They benefit from the fact that there are better
    online applications, than back in 2007, but they are still quite limited
    compared to a Windows or Mac notebook.

    Not so sure about that. My two grandsons, and all their
    classmates, use Chromebooks heavily every day at school.

    As I recall, the very first Chromebooks wouldn't let you save anything locally. I have to assume they long ago overcame that restriction.

    They're still somewhat locked down vs Windows or other Linux distros,
    but I did see you can run Android apps and install a "Linux environment"
    on a Chromebook.



    This all is no-shit-sherlock material.

    To us, but not to the 'average' computer user.

    The best part of his answer was the part about him seeing high return
    rates for Linux netbooks, but putting full-price Windows on them and
    reselling them like hotcakes as refurbished, with a higher price.

    I wrote a ditty about it 14 years ago. Remember?

    "N is for netbook, upon which Linux fails
    The people cried out "We want Windows for sale!"
    The return rates were high, and for very good reason
    Lunix slop always was and will be out of season"

    heh!




    People are fed Windows,
    some jump to Macs, some schools and businesses find Chromebooks
    (Chrome OS) is a Linux derivative, and some people are savvy
    enough to deal with new type of software.

    I learned long ago that only 8 MS-hating, disgruntled advocates on cola
    are qualified to evaluate operating systems and application software and
    make the right choice [GuhNoo/Linux of course]. The rest of the world
    is stupid and brainwashed.


    MS is doomed

    You sound like a broken record.
    You sound like a broken record.

    MS is doomed
    MS is doomed
    MS is doomed
    MS is doomed
    MS is doomed
    MS is doomed
    MS is doomed
    MS is doomed


    It's me against the sustained idiocy of cola, which at least EVERY WEEK
    sees new "MS is doomed/dying" posts from advocate putzes.



    AI Overview

    Linux has a small but growing share in the desktop OS
    market (around 4-6%), dominating in servers (over 40%),
    supercomputers (100%), and embedded systems, with significant
    developer adoption (around 28% for Ubuntu), showing strong
    momentum in recent years, particularly in the U.S. (crossing
    5% in 2025) and India (over 16%).


    I'm digging many if not most of the Google AI overviews and AI mode
    responses.

    I recently asked Google something like 'bash code to split a sentence
    into an array' and the AI Overview gave a bunch of good examples,
    various options, etc. Far, far better info than a year ago.

    I felt it was even more productive than StackOverflow.

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From rbowman@bowman@montana.com to comp.os.linux.advocacy on Fri Jan 9 03:38:02 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

    On Thu, 8 Jan 2026 10:01:52 -0500, DFS wrote:

    As I recall, the very first Chromebooks wouldn't let you save anything locally. I have to assume they long ago overcame that restriction.

    They're still somewhat locked down vs Windows or other Linux distros,
    but I did see you can run Android apps and install a "Linux environment"
    on a Chromebook.

    We bought a Chromebook to test the web app we were developing. I didn't
    get to play with it much but it wasn't altogether bad.

    The current question is how many Chromebooks will be able to migrate to Aluminum OS? Sources say they are testing with the 12th Gen Alder Lake processors, so probably no guarantees for anything prior to 2021.

    Chrome OS will be supported until it isn't.

    I wrote a ditty about it 14 years ago. Remember?

    "N is for netbook, upon which Linux fails The people cried out "We want Windows for sale!"
    The return rates were high, and for very good reason Lunix slop always
    was and will be out of season"

    Funny thing about that. I bought my Acer Aspire netbook in 2011 so it's
    about 14 years old. Part of it was replacing the HDD with a SSD but it's
    doing fine with Linux Mint 22.2, better than it ever did with Windows 7. Another old box saved from the landfill by Linux!



    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From rbowman@bowman@montana.com to comp.os.linux.advocacy on Fri Jan 9 03:45:14 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

    On Thu, 8 Jan 2026 02:34:42 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence DrCOOliveiro wrote:

    The American rCLElectoral CollegerCY system makes this even worse.
    Completely bizarre that anyone would put up with it.

    Oh wait, itrCOs a hangover from slavery days ...

    It isn't perfect but it does give a little protection to the rural states
    from getting fucked over by screaming purple haired critters of
    indeterminate sex from the various Sodoms and Gomorrahs here and there. A better solution would be a amicable divorce but Dishonest Abe showed the
    US is a version of the Roach Motel.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roach_Motel
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From rbowman@bowman@montana.com to comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy on Fri Jan 9 03:48:13 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

    On Thu, 8 Jan 2026 05:39:04 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence DrCOOliveiro wrote:

    And *that* was where the higher return rate came from: it was
    effectively the death knell of the rCLnetbookrCY as a separate product category. Microsoft couldnrCOt offer a product to compete fairly with
    Linux in that category, so it used its still-massive marketing might to
    kill the product category.

    Dropping a SATA SSD in my 14 year old netbook did wonders. One drawback is
    it no longer keeps my balls warm when I'm using it.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From RonB@ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com to comp.os.linux.advocacy on Fri Jan 9 08:08:26 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

    On 2026-01-09, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
    On Thu, 8 Jan 2026 02:34:42 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence DrCOOliveiro wrote:

    The American rCLElectoral CollegerCY system makes this even worse.
    Completely bizarre that anyone would put up with it.

    Oh wait, itrCOs a hangover from slavery days ...

    It isn't perfect but it does give a little protection to the rural states from getting fucked over by screaming purple haired critters of indeterminate sex from the various Sodoms and Gomorrahs here and there. A better solution would be a amicable divorce but Dishonest Abe showed the
    US is a version of the Roach Motel.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roach_Motel

    It doesn't really matter if someone from New Zealand doesn't like our electoral college. You don't see me ranting against the stupid parliamentary election nonsense.
    --
    "Not just stupid... Trump stupid."
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Chris Ahlstrom@OFeem1987@teleworm.us to comp.os.linux.advocacy on Fri Jan 9 07:35:08 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

    rbowman wrote this post by blinking in Morse code:

    On Thu, 8 Jan 2026 10:01:52 -0500, DFS wrote:

    As I recall, the very first Chromebooks wouldn't let you save anything
    locally. I have to assume they long ago overcame that restriction.

    They're still somewhat locked down vs Windows or other Linux distros,
    but I did see you can run Android apps and install a "Linux environment"
    on a Chromebook.

    We bought a Chromebook to test the web app we were developing. I didn't
    get to play with it much but it wasn't altogether bad.

    The current question is how many Chromebooks will be able to migrate to Aluminum OS? Sources say they are testing with the 12th Gen Alder Lake processors, so probably no guarantees for anything prior to 2021.

    Chrome OS will be supported until it isn't.

    I wrote a ditty about it 14 years ago. Remember?

    <shitty ditty whingesnip>

    Funny thing about that. I bought my Acer Aspire netbook in 2011 so it's about 14 years old. Part of it was replacing the HDD with a SSD but it's doing fine with Linux Mint 22.2, better than it ever did with Windows 7. Another old box saved from the landfill by Linux!

    My ASUS "gamer's" laptop is also about 14 years old. I have it
    closed but powered on so's I can shell into it now and then. Way
    old Ubuntu install. It's sitting right next to me. The cat is
    laying on it because it's warm.
    --
    Happiness is a warm computer.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From CrudeSausage@crude@sausa.ge to comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy on Fri Jan 9 13:59:10 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

    On 9 Jan 2026 03:48:13 GMT, rbowman wrote:

    On Thu, 8 Jan 2026 05:39:04 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence DrCOOliveiro wrote:

    And *that* was where the higher return rate came from: it was
    effectively the death knell of the rCLnetbookrCY as a separate product
    category. Microsoft couldnrCOt offer a product to compete fairly with
    Linux in that category, so it used its still-massive marketing might to
    kill the product category.

    Dropping a SATA SSD in my 14 year old netbook did wonders. One drawback
    is it no longer keeps my balls warm when I'm using it.

    What do you use that netbook for? I just acquired a 2013 MacBook Air for
    $30, and other than giving it to my boy to destroy, I can't figure out
    what to do with it.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From rbowman@bowman@montana.com to comp.os.linux.advocacy on Sat Jan 10 01:47:10 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

    On Fri, 9 Jan 2026 07:35:08 -0500, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

    My ASUS "gamer's" laptop is also about 14 years old. I have it closed
    but powered on so's I can shell into it now and then. Way old Ubuntu
    install. It's sitting right next to me. The cat is laying on it because
    it's warm.

    Not on the cat's list of places to sleep. Right now I'm slow cooking a
    pork shoulder so in front of the oven is the place to be, even better than
    one of the electric space heaters. It's a wonder she hasn't set her fur on fire.


    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From rbowman@bowman@montana.com to comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy on Sat Jan 10 01:54:14 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

    On 09 Jan 2026 13:59:10 GMT, CrudeSausage wrote:

    On 9 Jan 2026 03:48:13 GMT, rbowman wrote:

    On Thu, 8 Jan 2026 05:39:04 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence DrCOOliveiro wrote:

    And *that* was where the higher return rate came from: it was
    effectively the death knell of the rCLnetbookrCY as a separate product
    category. Microsoft couldnrCOt offer a product to compete fairly with
    Linux in that category, so it used its still-massive marketing might
    to kill the product category.

    Dropping a SATA SSD in my 14 year old netbook did wonders. One drawback
    is it no longer keeps my balls warm when I'm using it.

    What do you use that netbook for? I just acquired a 2013 MacBook Air for
    $30, and other than giving it to my boy to destroy, I can't figure out
    what to do with it.

    Arduino development mostly. I use arduino-cli, vim, and minicom in i3.
    Works well. I usually have a browser open for documentation in another workspace. It handle that fine with 4 GB without going into swap.

    I used to take it with me when I was traveling. If it got damaged or
    stolen no big deal. Even with Windows 7 it was usable although loading anything was slow due to the HDD. I think it might have been 540 rpm
    rather than 5400.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From CrudeSausage@crude@sausa.ge to comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy on Sat Jan 10 02:38:35 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

    On 10 Jan 2026 01:54:14 GMT, rbowman wrote:

    On 09 Jan 2026 13:59:10 GMT, CrudeSausage wrote:

    On 9 Jan 2026 03:48:13 GMT, rbowman wrote:

    On Thu, 8 Jan 2026 05:39:04 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence DrCOOliveiro wrote:

    And *that* was where the higher return rate came from: it was
    effectively the death knell of the rCLnetbookrCY as a separate product >>>> category. Microsoft couldnrCOt offer a product to compete fairly with
    Linux in that category, so it used its still-massive marketing might
    to kill the product category.

    Dropping a SATA SSD in my 14 year old netbook did wonders. One
    drawback is it no longer keeps my balls warm when I'm using it.

    What do you use that netbook for? I just acquired a 2013 MacBook Air
    for $30, and other than giving it to my boy to destroy, I can't figure
    out what to do with it.

    Arduino development mostly. I use arduino-cli, vim, and minicom in i3.
    Works well. I usually have a browser open for documentation in another workspace. It handle that fine with 4 GB without going into swap.

    I used to take it with me when I was traveling. If it got damaged or
    stolen no big deal. Even with Windows 7 it was usable although loading anything was slow due to the HDD. I think it might have been 540 rpm
    rather than 5400.

    I was actually thinking that the $30 MacBook Air is probably a perfect
    device to travel with. Like you, I couldn't care less if it gets stolen or damaged. Meanwhile, even with that little RAM and with that slow of a processor, it will probably run any Linux I choose quite fine. I _might_
    put a new battery in there, but replacing it would cost more than the cost
    of the device.
    --
    CrudeSausage
    John 14:6
    Pop_OS!
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Chris Ahlstrom@OFeem1987@teleworm.us to comp.os.linux.advocacy on Sat Jan 10 06:56:31 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

    rbowman wrote this post by blinking in Morse code:

    On Fri, 9 Jan 2026 07:35:08 -0500, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

    My ASUS "gamer's" laptop is also about 14 years old. I have it closed
    but powered on so's I can shell into it now and then. Way old Ubuntu
    install. It's sitting right next to me. The cat is laying on it because
    it's warm.

    Not on the cat's list of places to sleep. Right now I'm slow cooking a
    pork shoulder so in front of the oven is the place to be, even better than one of the electric space heaters. It's a wonder she hasn't set her fur on fire.

    AI Overview

    Can Cats See Infrared Lights? Feline Vision Facts - Catster

    No, cats cannot see infrared (IR) light in the way we think of
    "vision," but they can detect it as heat using specialized
    receptors in their skin and whiskers, which helps them find
    warm spots like sunny patches or a recently used laptop.
    --
    BASIC is to computer programming as QWERTY is to typing.
    -- Seymour Papert
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From rbowman@bowman@montana.com to comp.os.linux.advocacy on Sat Jan 10 19:49:12 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

    On Sat, 10 Jan 2026 06:56:31 -0500, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:

    No, cats cannot see infrared (IR) light in the way we think of
    "vision," but they can detect it as heat using specialized receptors
    in their skin and whiskers, which helps them find warm spots like
    sunny patches or a recently used laptop.

    I didn't know the scientific explanation but I've long known that cats are heat seeking missiles.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Gremlin@nobody@haph.org to comp.os.linux.advocacy on Tue Jan 13 05:02:22 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

    CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge>
    news:695e7416$1$24$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com Wed, 07 Jan 2026 14:56:22
    GMT in comp.os.linux.advocacy, wrote:


    You are only now revealing to us that the majority of people aren't too bright?

    The OP is right. It's not always a case of a stupid indiviual either. It's just how things are in the real world. A far from perfect real world.

    50% of every country is shockingly stupid. That's why left-wing
    governments always have a chance at getting elected. I imagine that
    those were the people buying $199 computers. After all, those shockingly stupid people are also generally poor, so the thought of a cheap
    computer appeals to them, but using their minuscule brain for a moment
    to figure out how the machine works is not worthwhile.

    It's not always a case of them being poor. If you've ever worked in a real repair shop, you'd understand the situation a bit better. It's a clusterfuck and a half, mind you, but...the OP is right.

    If you want to change things, it starts with the user. And the applications they use. If the applications they are familiar with and use on a daily basis would run just fine under Linux, it wouldn't be an issue. But, not all applications are friendly towards Linux. Even with various stop gap measures in place, you'll run across one that just won't play nice on Linux.

    I've got a client who has such a situation, sadly. I'd love to completely convert them to Linux. But, due to the fact they use a radon detection kit that has a specific software package that's Windows only, I can't currently do so. If and win I can find a way to make that damn program play nice under Linux in some manner, then I can. I've contacted the manufacturer as well as looked up competing products which perform the same function. Short of building one myself and going thru the aggravation of writing the software from scratch to control it, they'll remain with Windows on a couple of laptops and Linux on the rest of their gear. It's damn near perfection. One fucking app to go before I can migrate the Laptops over. :)
    --
    Liar, lawyer; mirror show me, what's the difference?
    Kangaroo done hung the guilty with the innocent
    Liar, lawyer; mirror for ya', what's the difference?
    Kangaroo be stoned. He's guilty as the government

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Brock McNuggets@brock.mcnuggets@gmail.com to comp.os.linux.advocacy on Tue Jan 13 05:55:38 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

    On Jan 12, 2026 at 10:02:22rC>PM MST, "Gremlin" wrote <XnsB3D366EB59EHT1@cF04o3ON7k2lx05.lLC.9r5>:

    CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge>
    news:695e7416$1$24$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com Wed, 07 Jan 2026 14:56:22
    GMT in comp.os.linux.advocacy, wrote:


    You are only now revealing to us that the majority of people aren't too
    bright?

    The OP is right. It's not always a case of a stupid indiviual either. It's just how things are in the real world. A far from perfect real world.

    50% of every country is shockingly stupid. That's why left-wing
    governments always have a chance at getting elected. I imagine that
    those were the people buying $199 computers. After all, those shockingly
    stupid people are also generally poor, so the thought of a cheap
    computer appeals to them, but using their minuscule brain for a moment
    to figure out how the machine works is not worthwhile.

    It's not always a case of them being poor. If you've ever worked in a real repair shop, you'd understand the situation a bit better. It's a clusterfuck and a half, mind you, but...the OP is right.

    If you want to change things, it starts with the user. And the applications they use. If the applications they are familiar with and use on a daily basis would run just fine under Linux, it wouldn't be an issue. But, not all applications are friendly towards Linux. Even with various stop gap measures in place, you'll run across one that just won't play nice on Linux.

    I've got a client who has such a situation, sadly. I'd love to completely convert them to Linux. But, due to the fact they use a radon detection kit that has a specific software package that's Windows only, I can't currently do
    so. If and win I can find a way to make that damn program play nice under Linux in some manner, then I can. I've contacted the manufacturer as well as looked up competing products which perform the same function. Short of building one myself and going thru the aggravation of writing the software from scratch to control it, they'll remain with Windows on a couple of laptops
    and Linux on the rest of their gear. It's damn near perfection. One fucking app to go before I can migrate the Laptops over. :)

    Not much to add other than a sincere note that it is good to see you post with a much bigger focus on tech issues.

    And I agree... if you have apps that need an OS, then you need that OS. Seems pretty simple.
    --
    It's impossible for someone who is at war with themselves to be at peace with you.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?=@ldo@nz.invalid to comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows-advocacy on Tue Jan 13 06:55:40 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

    ... but you repeat yourself.

    On Thu, 8 Jan 2026 10:01:52 -0500, DFS wrote:

    As I recall, the very first Chromebooks wouldn't let you save
    anything locally. I have to assume they long ago overcame that
    restriction.

    Whereas Microsoft are moving in the opposite direction, arenrCOt they?
    Taking away the option to save your documents locally, and forcing you
    to put them in the cloud.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?=@ldo@nz.invalid to comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy on Tue Jan 13 06:59:39 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

    ... but you repeat yourself.

    On Tue, 13 Jan 2026 05:02:22 -0000 (UTC), Gremlin wrote:

    ... due to the fact they use a radon detection kit that has a
    specific software package that's Windows only, I can't currently do
    so. If and win I can find a way to make that damn program play nice
    under Linux in some manner, then I can.

    One obvious option is to help to get it running nicely under WINE,
    perhaps by providing the necessary debug traces to the developers to
    isolate the incompatibilities. It may already be 80-90% functional,
    so the effort to fix the rest might be less than you think.

    How much does the software cost? If you can spend some modest
    proportion of that to get you out of your dependency on a proprietary
    vendor, wouldnrCOt that be worth it?
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From DFS@nospam@dfs.com to comp.os.linux.advocacy on Tue Jan 13 18:25:28 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

    On 1/13/2026 1:55 AM, Lawrence DrCOOliveiro wrote:
    ... but you repeat yourself.

    On Thu, 8 Jan 2026 10:01:52 -0500, DFS wrote:

    As I recall, the very first Chromebooks wouldn't let you save
    anything locally. I have to assume they long ago overcame that
    restriction.

    Whereas Microsoft are moving in the opposite direction, arenrCOt they?
    Taking away the option to save your documents locally, and forcing you
    to put them in the cloud.


    You must've gotten hold of that special "Linux Advocate Edition" of
    Windows 11.


    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From DFS@nospam@dfs.com to comp.os.linux.advocacy on Tue Jan 13 18:32:56 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

    On 1/8/2026 10:38 PM, rbowman wrote:
    On Thu, 8 Jan 2026 10:01:52 -0500, DFS wrote:

    As I recall, the very first Chromebooks wouldn't let you save anything
    locally. I have to assume they long ago overcame that restriction.

    They're still somewhat locked down vs Windows or other Linux distros,
    but I did see you can run Android apps and install a "Linux environment"
    on a Chromebook.

    We bought a Chromebook to test the web app we were developing. I didn't
    get to play with it much but it wasn't altogether bad.

    The current question is how many Chromebooks will be able to migrate to Aluminum OS? Sources say they are testing with the 12th Gen Alder Lake processors, so probably no guarantees for anything prior to 2021.

    Chrome OS will be supported until it isn't.

    I wrote a ditty about it 14 years ago. Remember?

    "N is for netbook, upon which Linux fails The people cried out "We want
    Windows for sale!"
    The return rates were high, and for very good reason Lunix slop always
    was and will be out of season"

    Funny thing about that. I bought my Acer Aspire netbook in 2011 so it's
    about 14 years old. Part of it was replacing the HDD with a SSD but it's doing fine with Linux Mint 22.2, better than it ever did with Windows 7.

    Another old box saved from the landfill by Linux!

    Don't call yourself an 'old box'!



    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?=@ldo@nz.invalid to comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy on Tue Jan 13 23:43:44 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

    ... but you repeat yourself.

    On Tue, 13 Jan 2026 18:25:28 -0500, DFS wrote:

    On 1/13/2026 1:55 AM, Lawrence DrCOOliveiro wrote:

    On Thu, 8 Jan 2026 10:01:52 -0500, DFS wrote:

    As I recall, the very first Chromebooks wouldn't let you save
    anything locally. I have to assume they long ago overcame that
    restriction.

    Whereas Microsoft are moving in the opposite direction, arenrCOt
    they? Taking away the option to save your documents locally, and
    forcing you to put them in the cloud.

    You must've gotten hold of that special "Linux Advocate Edition" of
    Windows 11.

    I donrCOt know what yourCOve got hold of, but it certainly cannot be
    described as factual information about the platform you claim to be
    such a fan of.

    <https://www.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/1n1xadu/microsoft_changing_office_to_autosave_documents/>
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From CrudeSausage@crude@sausa.ge to comp.os.linux.advocacy on Wed Jan 14 00:07:48 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

    On Tue, 13 Jan 2026 18:25:28 -0500, DFS wrote:

    On 1/13/2026 1:55 AM, Lawrence DrCOOliveiro wrote:
    ... but you repeat yourself.

    On Thu, 8 Jan 2026 10:01:52 -0500, DFS wrote:

    As I recall, the very first Chromebooks wouldn't let you save anything
    locally. I have to assume they long ago overcame that restriction.

    Whereas Microsoft are moving in the opposite direction, arenrCOt they?
    Taking away the option to save your documents locally, and forcing you
    to put them in the cloud.


    You must've gotten hold of that special "Linux Advocate Edition" of
    Windows 11.

    Where is he wrong? If you don't use Rufus to create a modified version of
    the Windows ISO, the installation will require you to log in with your Microsoft account and will push for you to use OneDrive. By default,
    Microsoft Office also saves to the cloud rather than locally and will
    continue to push the cloud even after you've already saved a document
    locally.

    I'm not sure why you're denying this. Anyone who has installed Windows
    (and I have repeatedly, something you constantly point out) knows that Lawrence is being more or less honest here. Sure, they don't _force_ you
    to put it on the cloud and they didn't remove the option to save locally,
    but they might as well have.
    --
    CrudeSausage
    John 14:6
    Pop_OS!
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From CrudeSausage@crude@sausa.ge to comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy on Wed Jan 14 00:14:05 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

    On Tue, 13 Jan 2026 23:43:44 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence DrCOOliveiro wrote:

    ... but you repeat yourself.

    On Tue, 13 Jan 2026 18:25:28 -0500, DFS wrote:

    On 1/13/2026 1:55 AM, Lawrence DrCOOliveiro wrote:

    On Thu, 8 Jan 2026 10:01:52 -0500, DFS wrote:

    As I recall, the very first Chromebooks wouldn't let you save
    anything locally. I have to assume they long ago overcame that
    restriction.

    Whereas Microsoft are moving in the opposite direction, arenrCOt they?
    Taking away the option to save your documents locally, and forcing you
    to put them in the cloud.

    You must've gotten hold of that special "Linux Advocate Edition" of
    Windows 11.

    I donrCOt know what yourCOve got hold of, but it certainly cannot be described as factual information about the platform you claim to be such
    a fan of.

    <https://www.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/1n1xadu/
    microsoft_changing_office_to_autosave_documents/>

    Let's be honest, it's just a matter of time before DFS runs out of excuses
    to defend Microsoft and joins us on the Linux side. He's resisting, but a
    lot of people resisted admitting Christ's divinity too.
    --
    CrudeSausage
    John 14:6
    Pop_OS!
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Gremlin@nobody@haph.org to comp.os.linux.advocacy on Wed Jan 14 01:59:35 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

    CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> news:6966de54$5$20$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com Wed, 14 Jan 2026 00:07:48 GMT in comp.os.linux.advocacy, wrote:

    On Tue, 13 Jan 2026 18:25:28 -0500, DFS wrote:

    On 1/13/2026 1:55 AM, Lawrence DrCOOliveiro wrote:
    ... but you repeat yourself.

    On Thu, 8 Jan 2026 10:01:52 -0500, DFS wrote:

    As I recall, the very first Chromebooks wouldn't let you save anything >>>> locally. I have to assume they long ago overcame that restriction.

    Whereas Microsoft are moving in the opposite direction, arenrCOt they?
    Taking away the option to save your documents locally, and forcing you
    to put them in the cloud.


    You must've gotten hold of that special "Linux Advocate Edition" of
    Windows 11.

    Where is he wrong? If you don't use Rufus to create a modified version of the Windows ISO, the installation will require you to log in with your Microsoft account and will push for you to use OneDrive. By default, Microsoft Office also saves to the cloud rather than locally and will continue to push the cloud even after you've already saved a document locally.

    I'm not sure why you're denying this. Anyone who has installed Windows
    (and I have repeatedly, something you constantly point out) knows that Lawrence is being more or less honest here. Sure, they don't _force_ you
    to put it on the cloud and they didn't remove the option to save locally, but they might as well have.

    Ayep. MS wants things to go back to the old way; your computer is
    effectively a dumb terminal with a recurring subscription model. This is
    their beginning way to foist this upon the consumer. And let's face it, many
    a consumer are gullible enough to let them do this.
    --
    Liar, lawyer; mirror show me, what's the difference?
    Kangaroo done hung the guilty with the innocent
    Liar, lawyer; mirror for ya', what's the difference?
    Kangaroo be stoned. He's guilty as the government

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Gremlin@nobody@haph.org to comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy on Wed Jan 14 01:59:39 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

    Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?= <ldo@nz.invalid> news:10k4qgq$2ulq3$3@dont-email.me Tue, 13 Jan 2026 06:59:39 GMT in comp.os.linux.advocacy, wrote:

    ... but you repeat yourself.

    On Tue, 13 Jan 2026 05:02:22 -0000 (UTC), Gremlin wrote:

    ... due to the fact they use a radon detection kit that has a
    specific software package that's Windows only, I can't currently do
    so. If and win I can find a way to make that damn program play nice
    under Linux in some manner, then I can.

    One obvious option is to help to get it running nicely under WINE,
    perhaps by providing the necessary debug traces to the developers to
    isolate the incompatibilities. It may already be 80-90% functional,
    so the effort to fix the rest might be less than you think.

    You seriously don't think I've already tried to get it to place nice with WINE? Bro, The usenet client I'm using tolerates WINE in most cases but there's one very repeatable gotcha. I have to write all of my replies
    using an external editor. I cannot do much editing in the programs own
    window or it will crash out with an exception error. I literally c/p the
    reply window to featherpad, write what I want and then c/p it back into my clients reply window. If I then fuck around in the clients window, I will crash out my usenet client. Sometimes, it's a hard crash where the app completely dies and I have to restart it. Other times, it's a recoverable crash.

    I've determined via reverse engineering and watching the API calls that
    it's an issue with the way it handles character placement. I could attempt
    to patch the executable to try and over come this (I don't have source
    code to Xnews), but, that's not foolproof either and may introduce other issues. So, I just deal with it and work around it as I wrote.

    How much does the software cost? If you can spend some modest
    proportion of that to get you out of your dependency on a proprietary
    vendor, wouldnrCOt that be worth it?

    The software is sold with the hardware; they won't sell it separate from
    the hardware because it's all very proprietary. It's for a home inspection business. He leaves one of these machines at the suspect house for a few
    days to give it time to analyze the environment. It stores the data inside
    the machine in a proprietary format. The software is then used once the machine is brought back to access and parse the data stored inside of it.
    Each box is just under 5k US funds.

    So far, I haven't been able to locate a reliable Linux package that would
    do the same thing that meets the required standards for the test to be submitted to the state. Sorry for not being clear about this previously?

    The program itself sort of runs under Wine, but, it won't talk to the
    machine when run this way. Which makes it a bit on the useless side. I
    need the software to get the data from the machine. MXLinux does see the
    box; no issue there, but the program doesn't see it. Luckily, he's only
    got three of these damn things. So, he's invested approx 15k or so.

    I've actually tried installing Windows in a VM on the Linux machines and running the Windows package that way. It sees the box, attempts
    communications with the box, but eventually times out retrieving no data.
    Or, when it does pull data, it's garbled garbage. The software package is
    so messed up that I have to keep the owner on Windows 7. It doesn't work
    at all on windows 8 and above. The manufacturer has provided me no ETA on
    when or if they are going to support a later edition of Windows. The owner didn't consult with me prior to purchasing these awful things. It was something he already had by the time I was made aware of it.

    I've been trying to talk them into ditching the said junk and going with
    this:

    https://www.radelec.com/store/home/28-rad-elec-recon.html

    But, they've got 15k invested already so aren't willing to go this route
    (so far) Which is a real shame. These boxes are thousands less cost wise
    and will work under Linux! Windows and Mac Os. Personally, I think they grossly overpaid and should have checked with me prior to parting with the first dime of their hard earned cash. But, what do I know. I'm just the
    poor SOD who has to sort thru the mess and 'fix it' when possible.

    So for now, the fix is a couple of Windows 7 laptops that aren't used
    online and are only used to do the radon kit. The owner likes MXLinux too; I've got it's GUI setup to closely resemble that of Windows 7, albeit with
    a few minor differences that they have no trouble working with. Taskbar
    being at the bottom of the screen, a 'start button' to the far left, clock
    etc on the right, you get the drill. They know it's not Windows mind you,
    but, they have no trouble navigating around. It does all they need to do, except of course, run that fucking software package.. Grrrr
    --
    Liar, lawyer; mirror show me, what's the difference?
    Kangaroo done hung the guilty with the innocent
    Liar, lawyer; mirror for ya', what's the difference?
    Kangaroo be stoned. He's guilty as the government

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From CrudeSausage@crude@sausa.ge to comp.os.linux.advocacy on Wed Jan 14 02:09:55 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

    On Wed, 14 Jan 2026 01:59:35 -0000 (UTC), Gremlin wrote:

    CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge>
    news:6966de54$5$20$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com Wed, 14 Jan 2026 00:07:48
    GMT in comp.os.linux.advocacy, wrote:

    On Tue, 13 Jan 2026 18:25:28 -0500, DFS wrote:

    On 1/13/2026 1:55 AM, Lawrence DrCOOliveiro wrote:
    ... but you repeat yourself.

    On Thu, 8 Jan 2026 10:01:52 -0500, DFS wrote:

    As I recall, the very first Chromebooks wouldn't let you save
    anything locally. I have to assume they long ago overcame that
    restriction.

    Whereas Microsoft are moving in the opposite direction, arenrCOt they? >>>> Taking away the option to save your documents locally, and forcing
    you to put them in the cloud.


    You must've gotten hold of that special "Linux Advocate Edition" of
    Windows 11.

    Where is he wrong? If you don't use Rufus to create a modified version
    of the Windows ISO, the installation will require you to log in with
    your Microsoft account and will push for you to use OneDrive. By
    default, Microsoft Office also saves to the cloud rather than locally
    and will continue to push the cloud even after you've already saved a
    document locally.

    I'm not sure why you're denying this. Anyone who has installed Windows
    (and I have repeatedly, something you constantly point out) knows that
    Lawrence is being more or less honest here. Sure, they don't _force_
    you to put it on the cloud and they didn't remove the option to save
    locally,
    but they might as well have.

    Ayep. MS wants things to go back to the old way; your computer is
    effectively a dumb terminal with a recurring subscription model. This is their beginning way to foist this upon the consumer. And let's face it,
    many a consumer are gullible enough to let them do this.

    I just read news that Microsoft has found a reason to put Co-Pilot into
    the file manager <https://www.techrepublic.com/article/news-leaked- windows-11-feature-copilot-file-explorer/>. It's stuff like this that is
    going to make it very difficult to consider Windows again.
    --
    CrudeSausage
    John 14:6
    Pop_OS!
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Joel W. Crump@joelcrump@gmail.com to comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy on Wed Jan 14 00:23:10 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.advocacy

    On 1/13/26 7:14 PM, CrudeSausage wrote:
    On Tue, 13 Jan 2026 23:43:44 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence DrCOOliveiro wrote:
    On Tue, 13 Jan 2026 18:25:28 -0500, DFS wrote:
    On 1/13/2026 1:55 AM, Lawrence DrCOOliveiro wrote:
    On Thu, 8 Jan 2026 10:01:52 -0500, DFS wrote:

    As I recall, the very first Chromebooks wouldn't let you save
    anything locally. I have to assume they long ago overcame that
    restriction.

    Whereas Microsoft are moving in the opposite direction, arenrCOt they? >>>> Taking away the option to save your documents locally, and forcing you >>>> to put them in the cloud.

    You must've gotten hold of that special "Linux Advocate Edition" of
    Windows 11.

    I donrCOt know what yourCOve got hold of, but it certainly cannot be
    described as factual information about the platform you claim to be such
    a fan of.

    <https://www.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/1n1xadu/
    microsoft_changing_office_to_autosave_documents/>

    Let's be honest, it's just a matter of time before DFS runs out of excuses
    to defend Microsoft and joins us on the Linux side. He's resisting, but a
    lot of people resisted admitting Christ's divinity too.


    You're resisting admitting the correct Christian position is pro-LGBTQ.
    --
    Joel W. Crump
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2