From Newsgroup: comp.editors

On 6/18/2024 2:25 PM, Harry S Robins wrote:

What I dislike most about the last known good version of Paint Shop Pro was that it messes with your right click context and pulldown menus like crazy.

Pulldown menus? I haven't had any trouble, and I don't
see any menu item on the recycle context menu. I actually
added "Open with PSP" myself for all files.

But PSP5 does have shortcomings. It doesn't handle PNG,
much less HEIF or WEBP. It doesn't handle transparent GIFs.
I once bought PSP7, but it just had too much frivolous
junk.

I guess it really depends on what you want to do.
People who use PS are usually like the people who use MS Office.
They're happy to pay through the nose because they use it
all day for work and they know it intimately. Or, because they're
amateurs who want to use the same tools "the big guys" use.
So they pay through the nose for PS and then they talk gravely
about their "workflow".

Some people only
need Notepad. I find Libre Office is more than I need for
anything I do, like designing contracts, receipts, address labels,
office stationery, etc. But I can see how someone like a professor
or lawyer wouldn't have a problem with paying for MS Office. They
use it constantly and they can write it off.

I used to have an architect friend who managed the tech in
his office. At one point he was updating all of the MS Office
installs at about $500 each. I asked him why he spent so much
money when the old version was nearly identical. He told me
that having an older version looked unprofessional. He was paying
some $3000 for nothing more than swank among peers.

And their color picker is a mess. No settings menu...

There's a plugin for that, but I have no experience with that plugin. https://forums.getpaint.net/topic/26399-plugin-for-a-better-color-picker/

A plugin to get a decent colorpicker?

aa The whole thing is very much non-standard and non-intuitive.

Compare it to PhotoShop or The GIMP. Then let me know what you think.

I did just compare it. Software should keep to standards, so that
each program doesn't have to be learned new. I've avoided the GIMP
largely because it's a pet project that's not designed properly. Last I
saw they didn't even have a real MDI window. Just a lot of lfoating
toolbars.
I haven't used PS since the 90s, so I can't compare to that.

I like software that's standard, efficient, and doesn't add silly extras. Increasingly I'm finding programs that provide few options. Paint.Net
is a good example. Chrome is another. Absolutely no menu option, which
makes no sense on desktops/laptops. Awhile back I was looking for a
basic ZIP program. Years ago I used PoweArchiver. Then I switched to
Filzip. Basic. Functional. But it choked on more exotic file types. I tried
one program with a dark yellow window that I couldn't change. I finally
settled on PeaZip. The name is silly, the icon is sillier, the UI is
annoyingly Metro-ish. But none of that is a problem, and it works
dependably.

One of the things I hate about PSP 16 is a terrible UI design. I can
choose beteen charcoal or black/orange window frames. Huh? It should
display in the colors I've chosen for Windows. Then it has its own Explorer section, which can't be removed. It tries to do too much and doesn't
respect the user's preferences.

However, for just removing blemishes and making people thinner, I prefer
the last known good version (version 1.3) of Vicman Photo Editor, which includes cartoonist. http://www.vicman.net/cartoonist/

Interesting. I've never heard of that. There are so many decent programs
out there. There's one called PhotoDemon that's written in VB6. Surprisingly good, though it also has a funky color selector.

For basic graphics, something like Paint.net is poorly designed overkill.

If you say that about Paint.NET and about The Gimp and Pinta, then what do you use on Windows that is free that is, in your opinion, better designed?

As I said, I mostly use PSP5.

Remember the whole point of this thread is Adobe is purely evil software.
So what do you use that is free and which is better than PhotoShop is?

This gets back to what you want/need to do. PSP5 mostly does what
I need. I optimize photos. I design quirky greeting cards. I make quickie diagrams... I'm not a pro photographer. I occasionally fire up PSP16 for
things like "high-end" sharpening, but I can't say that I find it can
do things better than PSP5. To get a good photo means starting with
a good photo, preferably RAW. For editing JPGs to go on websites, PSP5
is good. I doubt PS could do better. But if a pro photographer said PS
makes
all the difference, I'd believe them. For them it may be true.

I don't denigrate Paint Shop Pro for anything other than it screws with the menus like you can't believe - and then it doesn't undo what it screwed
with. If you don't believe me on that, then I want to see a screenshot of your rightclick context menu when you right click on "New" for example.

That's true. It does add that every time it starts. I used to have a
VBScript that I used as a sgortcut to start PSP. The script would
shell PSP, wait a few seconds, then delete that New key. :) But I've
never seen it screw up anything else. I think of that as the barbarism
of the 90s. The good old days when both Netscape and IE woulu
break the other's Registry keys. :)

Just try texting and drawing curved arrows in any other free program.
Nobody does it easier than Paint.net does it (unfortunately).

I'll keep that in mind, in case I ever want to draw a curved arrow.
--- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.editors

On 6/18/2024 2:25 PM, Harry S Robins wrote:

On Tue, 18 Jun 2024 13:05:14 -0400, Newyana2 wrote:

-a-a-a I've always avoided Paint.Net because it's always required the
latest .Net runtime. It originally started out as a salespitch for .Net.
But since you made it so easy, I decided to download and give it
a try. :)

I'm not an author of any editing programs and I'm aware that you are an author of programs which do make extensive queries of image formats.

Hence I can't disagree about what you said, which was it was funded by Microsoft for a graduate student to implement an example of a net framework app that, in this case, was designed to do everything important that photoshop did.

Paintnet is supposed to be replaced by Pinta, which works on Linux, Mac, Windows, and BSD.-a https://www.pinta-project.com/ Current Version: 2.1.2

Last I checked, Pinta wasn't ready for prime time - but it has been a few years since I tested Pinta. https://www.pinta-project.com/releases/

Given Pinta works on most platforms, I know it has a GTK requirement, which it will install if it needs it, but I'm not sure about .NET needs.

https://github.com/PintaProject/Pinta/releases/download/2.1.2/Pinta.exe
Name: Pinta.exe
Size: 57256744 bytes (54 MiB)
SHA256: 5E0A8D5AF1A1807AE6D5C57ED2C1969B5B1AC0A110B2C015C0C8C09DE1F06465

This is what Pinta.exe has in it.

AtkSharp.dll
CairoSharp.dll
Clipper.dll
clretwrc.dll
clrgc.dll
clrjit.dll
coreclr.dll
createdump.exe
fc-cache.exe
fc-cat.exe
fc-list.exe
fc-match.exe
fc-pattern.exe
fc-query.exe
fc-scan.exe
fc-validate.exe
gdbus.exe
gdk-pixbuf-query-loaders.exe
GdkSharp.dll
GioSharp.dll
GLibSharp.dll
gspawn-win64-helper-console.exe
gspawn-win64-helper.exe
gtk-query-immodules-3.0.exe
gtk-update-icon-cache.exe
gtk3_runtime_uninst.exe
GtkSharp.dll
HELPER_EXE_AMD64
hostfxr.dll
hostpolicy.dll
ICSharpCode.SharpZipLib.dll
libatk-1.0-0.dll
libbrotlicommon.dll
libbrotlidec.dll
libbz2-1.dll
libcairo-2.dll
libcairo-gobject-2.dll
libcairo-script-interpreter-2.dll
libcroco-0.6-3.dll
libdatrie-1.dll
libepoxy-0.dll
libexpat-1.dll
libexslt-0.dll
libffi-7.dll
libfontconfig-1.dll
libfreetype-6.dll
libfribidi-0.dll
libgailutil-3-0.dll
Microsoft.Bcl.AsyncInterfaces.dll
Microsoft.CSharp.dll
Microsoft.DiaSymReader.Native.amd64.dll
Microsoft.VisualBasic.Core.dll
Microsoft.VisualBasic.dll
Microsoft.Win32.Primitives.dll
Microsoft.Win32.Registry.dll
MINIDUMP_EMBEDDED_AUXILIARY_PROVIDER
mscordbi.dll
mscorlib.dll
mscorrc.dll
msquic.dll
MyConsoleApp.runtimeconfig.json
netstandard.dll
NGettext.dll
PangoSharp.dll
Pinta.Core.dll
Pinta.deps.json
Pinta.dll
Pinta.Docking.dll
Pinta.Effects.dll
Pinta.exe
Pinta.Gui.Widgets.dll
Pinta.Resources.dll
Pinta.Resources.resources.dll
Pinta.tmp <=== an EXE file
Pinta.Tools.dll
System.AppContext.dll
System.Buffers.dll
System.Collections.Concurrent.dll
System.Collections.dll
System.Collections.Immutable.dll
System.Collections.NonGeneric.dll
System.Collections.Specialized.dll
System.ComponentModel.Annotations.dll
System.ComponentModel.DataAnnotations.dll
System.ComponentModel.dll
System.ComponentModel.EventBasedAsync.dll
System.ComponentModel.Primitives.dll
System.ComponentModel.TypeConverter.dll
System.Configuration.dll
System.Console.dll
System.Core.dll
System.Data.Common.dll
System.Data.DataSetExtensions.dll
System.Data.dll
System.Diagnostics.Contracts.dll
System.Diagnostics.Debug.dll
System.Diagnostics.DiagnosticSource.dll
System.Diagnostics.FileVersionInfo.dll
System.Diagnostics.Process.dll
System.Diagnostics.StackTrace.dll System.Diagnostics.TextWriterTraceListener.dll
System.Diagnostics.Tools.dll
System.Diagnostics.TraceSource.dll
System.Diagnostics.Tracing.dll
System.dll
System.Drawing.dll
System.Drawing.Primitives.dll
System.Dynamic.Runtime.dll
System.Formats.Asn1.dll
System.Formats.Tar.dll
System.Globalization.Calendars.dll
System.Globalization.dll
System.Globalization.Extensions.dll
System.IO.Compression.Brotli.dll
System.IO.Compression.dll
System.IO.Compression.FileSystem.dll
System.IO.Compression.Native.dll
System.IO.Compression.ZipFile.dll
System.IO.dll
System.IO.FileSystem.AccessControl.dll
System.IO.FileSystem.dll
System.IO.FileSystem.DriveInfo.dll
System.IO.FileSystem.Primitives.dll
System.ValueTuple.dll
System.Web.dll
System.Web.HttpUtility.dll
System.Windows.dll
System.Xml.dll
System.Xml.Linq.dll
System.Xml.ReaderWriter.dll
System.Xml.Serialization.dll
System.Xml.XDocument.dll
System.Xml.XmlDocument.dll
System.Xml.XmlSerializer.dll
System.Xml.XPath.dll
System.Xml.XPath.XDocument.dll
Tmds.DBus.dll
unins000.exe
WindowsBase.dll

Smells a bit of dotNET.

Paul
--- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.editors

On Tue, 18 Jun 2024 18:26:21 -0400, Paul wrote:

This is what Pinta.exe has in it.
Smells a bit of dotNET.

Thanks for checking Pinta out. Since it works on all platforms, maybe they "ported" dotNET to those other platforms (or GTK?) with all those modules?

The history, as I know it (which I might not know it well), is Paint.NET
was meant to beat the shit out of PhotoShop on Windows (using dotNET).

In my opinion, since Paint.NET is free, and since it has billions of
plugins to do the things that people need done, it accomplished that task.

But Paint.NET only runs on Windows, whereas Pinta runs on everything.

The guy who tested Paint.NET didn't like it, but if he's comparing to
PhotoShop on Windows, you can't compare them given Paint.NET is free.

And if he's comparing to PaintShopPro, that's not free either (for the
later releases), so there's really no direct 1:1 comparison possible.

Nothing preventing someone from installing all of them, which is what I
have done on my system, but that includes a LOT of image editing tools.
<https://i.postimg.cc/JnkRd0QG/vectoreditor.jpg>

dir /b imageeditors
artweaver
faststone
fotor
fotosketcher
ghostscript
gimp
imagemagick
inkscape
irfanview
jsware_crop
krita
morph
paint.net
paintstar
photodemon
photopad
pinta
vicman_last_good_version
xnview
psp_shareware
photome
freehandpaint

If one wants to look at 3D vector editors, there's even more.
dir /b 3deditors
blender
draftsight
freecadweb
fusion360
inkscape
sketchup
madview
onshape
sweethome3d
amabilis
leocad
progecad

Don't even get me started on exif editors, video editors, screenshot
editors, etc.
--- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.editors

On Tue, 18 Jun 2024 16:30:21 -0400, Newyana2 wrote:

This gets back to what you want/need to do.

I agree with you that what editor you like most depends on what you do the most, where I've tried every single free image editor ever suggested here.
<https://i.postimg.cc/YCHMDt4S/imageeditor.jpg>

And every free 3D vector CAD editor that has ever been suggested here.
<https://i.postimg.cc/JnkRd0QG/vectoreditor.jpg>

I've tried every free PDF editor also ever suggested on this newsgroup.
<https://i.postimg.cc/hPn8138q/pdfeditor.jpg>

And every free audio editor too.
<https://i.postimg.cc/qMbvmNfx/audio.jpg>

Every free codec.
<https://i.postimg.cc/GtVxQMzW/codec.jpg>

Every free converter.
<https://i.postimg.cc/XY0wYBPk/converter.jpg>

And every free video editor.
<https://i.postimg.cc/5ybHLTh7/video.jpg>

Also every free epub editor and converter out there.
<https://i.postimg.cc/bdf2r4mw/epub.jpg>

And every free EXIF editor too.
<https://i.postimg.cc/ZYGstcrf/exif.jpg>

And every free screenrecorder every mentioned.
<https://i.postimg.cc/Hx55QQVx/screenrecorder.jpg>

And every free suite of editing tools, for the most part.
<https://i.postimg.cc/ZRkvKCVh/suite.jpg>

Even every free icon editor ever mentioned, I've tried.
<https://i.postimg.cc/W4YS96Nw/icon.jpg>

I would say, given I've run every single program listed above, that I have "some" experience with freeware editors, where if I say that Paint.NET
works well, you can rest assured that it works for what I say it does.

If you don't like it, then that's fine, but I gave you the reasons I don't
like Paint Shop Pro and that's fine too. To each his/her own, right?

I'm simply trying to help.
--- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.editors

On 6/18/2024 9:02 PM, Harry S Robins wrote:

If you don't like it, then that's fine, but I gave you the reasons I don't like Paint Shop Pro and that's fine too. To each his/her own, right?

I'm simply trying to help.

No problem. I have no issue with disagreement. It often
provides helpful information. I'm curious... Is there some kind
of freeware FTP heaven that you use? Your images look
like screenshots from an FTP page.
--- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.editors

On 6/18/2024 8:32 PM, Harry S Robins wrote:

Don't even get me started on exif editors, video editors, screenshot
editors, etc.

You're like a flash from the past. A return to the heyday of
the PC craze around the late 90s and early 00s. I remember
when I first got a computer (late '98) I loved going to the download
sites to download new stuff. At one point I ran into someone who
was very pleased to have 5 or 6 startup managers lined up on his
Start Menu. :)

As much as I was thrilled by my new hobby, I didn't use a computer
for work and didn't actually have any use for it. I was like an Amazonian tribesman who's found a car and just gets a big thrill out of making
the windows go up and down.

Up until that point I'd been making fun of people who paid $300
for PDAs and then would take 10 minutes to record my phone
number on it. (I understand that today PDA stands for "public display
of affection". As in "Ben seen here pouring on the PDA with JLo.")

--- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.editors

On Wed, 19 Jun 2024 07:52:28 -0400, Newyana2 wrote:

If you don't like it, then that's fine, but I gave you the reasons I don't >> like Paint Shop Pro and that's fine too. To each his/her own, right?

I'm simply trying to help.

No problem. I have no issue with disagreement. It often
provides helpful information. I'm curious... Is there some kind
of freeware FTP heaven that you use? Your images look
like screenshots from an FTP page.

Thanks for understanding that not everyone likes every GUI, and that's
fine, where what I find most useful in Paintnet is the way it does text and curved arrows which I personally think is the most efficient way to do it (where I think The GIMP uses the least efficient way, by contrast example).

As for freeware havens, I'm sure there are plenty of freeware FTP havens,
and I've even seen a few mentioned on the alt.comp.freeware ng which you
can search with this URL (which works for any newsgroup you want to search)
<https://www.novabbs.com/computers/search.php?group=full.newsgroup.name>

For alt.comp.freeware & rec.photo.digital & alt.comp.os.windows-10, use:
<https://www.novabbs.com/computers/search.php?group=alt.comp.freeware>
<https://www.novabbs.com/computers/search.php?group=rec.photo.digital>
<https://www.novabbs.com/computers/search.php?group=alt.comp.os.windows-10>

Although the Google Groups archives (no longer updated) go back farther:
<https://groups.google.com/g/alt.comp.freeware>
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.photo.digital>
<https://groups.google.com/g/alt.comp.os.microsoft.windows>

What I do is every time someone suggests a freeware editor, I test it out.

And then I write up a log in my archival location and if I need that
freeware editor in the future, I go through my logs to refresh my memory.

As for those screenshots, those are all off my own Windows 10 PC.
<https://i.postimg.cc/qMbvmNfx/audio.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/YCHMDt4S/imageeditor.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/JnkRd0QG/vectoreditor.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/GtVxQMzW/codec.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/XY0wYBPk/converter.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/bdf2r4mw/epub.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/ZYGstcrf/exif.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/W4YS96Nw/icon.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/TYj08X2w/imageeditor.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/hPn8138q/pdfeditor.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/Hx55QQVx/screenrecorder.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/ZRkvKCVh/suite.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/5ybHLTh7/video.jpg>
<https://i.postimg.cc/P5g510ZW/vectoreditor.jpg>

If I'm missing anything, let me know and I'll try it if it's useful to me.
--- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.editors

On Wed, 19 Jun 2024 08:04:52 -0400, Newyana2 wrote:

Don't even get me started on exif editors, video editors, screenshot
editors, etc.

You're like a flash from the past. A return to the heyday of
the PC craze around the late 90s and early 00s. I remember
when I first got a computer (late '98) I loved going to the download
sites to download new stuff. At one point I ran into someone who
was very pleased to have 5 or 6 startup managers lined up on his
Start Menu. :)

As much as I was thrilled by my new hobby, I didn't use a computer
for work and didn't actually have any use for it. I was like an Amazonian tribesman who's found a car and just gets a big thrill out of making
the windows go up and down.

Up until that point I'd been making fun of people who paid $300
for PDAs and then would take 10 minutes to record my phone
number on it. (I understand that today PDA stands for "public display
of affection". As in "Ben seen here pouring on the PDA with JLo.")

I use freeware exclusively on the PC for editing, where I'm well aware you
can subscribe to any number of services to do editing of images & video.

For audio, my editor of choice is audacity & for meta data, mp3tag.
For listening to audio, I mostly use MPC-BE (it's fast, like Irfanview).
For images, I mostly use Irfanview (for the simple edits).
For images, I mostly use Paint.NET (for the harder edits).
For 3D, I'd use Blender (or Krita, but I don't do vector graphics much).
For complex video tasks I'd mostly use Shotcut.
For video viewing, I'd use mostly VLC for movies (MPC-BE for simple stuff).
For video trimming, it gets complicated with avisynth & lame/ffmpeg cmds.

But what gets really complicated is editing of PDFs using Windows freeware!

This is the latest chart I pulled off the ng (which needs updating).
[x] Fast PDF reader: (Sumatra or Foxit)
[x] Shrink PDFs (ImageMagick or Acrobat payware or rlvision shareware)
[x] Edit PDF existing text (Adobe Reader commenting, Acrobat payware)
[x] Globally search & replace PDF text (Libre Office)
[x] Archive sites (wkhtmltopdf, Acrobat payware,fastone scroll capture)
[x] Add or concatonate pages (pdftk, acrobat payware)
[x] Remove pages (pdfsam, pdftk)
[x] Rotate pages (Acrobat Reader)
[x] Renumber pages (Acrobat Reader)
[x] Permissions (Ghostscript & Ghostview/ps2edit/pdfwrite or pdf2djvu)
[x] Merge PDFs (pdfsam, pdftk)
[x] Extract images (PDF Exchange Viewer, PDF Shaper)
[x] Reorder pages (mutool)
[x] Print sans username in the properties (Libre Office Writer)
[?] Print book format PDF (FinePrint payware)
[x] Tile PDFs (i.e., to print large posters) (Posterazor)
[x] Create PDF new text (Irfanview or Paint.NET plugins + Ghostscript)
[x] Convert PDF to MSWord or any epub format & vice versa (Calibre)
[x] Add signature (Adobe Reader Fill-and-sign sign-yourself tool)
[x] Online shrink PDF https://www.adobe.com/acrobat/online/compress-pdf.html --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2