On 31/12/2025 3:40 pm, keithr0 wrote:
On 31/12/2025 11:20 am, alvey wrote:
But speaking of salt water... Just come back from a packed beach on a
glorious day here on the Sunny and have An Observation. The G string
bottom only works on 175cm slightly underweight models. On anyone
else it makes the bum look wide and wobbly. Mine looks good of course...
A perv and proud of it.
Slimey cunt of a
I live about 500 metres from salt water, but neither my 30 odd year old MX-5, or the 10 year old Mazda 3 showed any corrosion problems.
On 31/12/2025 3:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
On 31/12/2025 12:31 pm, Xeno wrote:
On 31/12/2025 10:20 am, Daryl wrote:
On 30/12/2025 8:55 pm, keithr0 wrote:
On 30/12/2025 7:42 pm, Xeno wrote:
On 30/12/2025 3:14 pm, keithr0 wrote:
On 30/12/2025 9:04 am, Daryl wrote:
On 29/12/2025 8:49 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:Depends on the environment to some degree, I hear the Army aren't >>>>>>> exactly enamoured the their Mercedes 4WDs, the old Land Rovers
On 29/12/2025 8:19 pm, Daryl wrote:
On 29/12/2025 6:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
A week ago last Friday, the car fairy paid a visit, and, like >>>>>>>>>>> all good fairies, left a present - a RAV4.
It has only done one journey beyond the local area, a 25Km >>>>>>>>>>> trip to our daughter's place for Xmas day, but the economy >>>>>>>>>>> looks OK, usually in the low 5s, sometimes in the upper 4s. >>>>>>>>>>> It's quite a change from the Mazda 3, apart from the driving >>>>>>>>>>> position being significantly higher, things have moved on in >>>>>>>>>>> the 10 years since we bought the M3.
Not necessarily for the better IMO, too much electronics to go >>>>>>>>>> wrong, most of it is pretty reliable but can be a nightmare >>>>>>>>>> when it isn't.
**Bullshit. Electronics, in general, have improved car
reliability dramatically. I cite the example of EFI as one that >>>>>>>>> has VASTLY improved almost every aspect of engine flexibility, >>>>>>>>> performance, economy and reliability.
Wasn't talking about anything basic such as engine management, >>>>>>>> that's been around for a very long time but a lot of new things >>>>>>>> such as surround cameras can and do fail, they did in my sons >>>>>>>> 2022 200 Series Landcruiser, replaced under warranty but cost >>>>>>>> many $1000s to repair.
I watch a lot of YouTube videos a lot of which are car repair >>>>>>>> related and I've seen many that turn almost new cars into scrap >>>>>>>> mostly due to electrical issues.
-a-aMy 8 year old Suby has enormous amounts of electronics. 23 >>>>>>>>> CPUs amongst those components. NOTHING has ever gone wrong with >>>>>>>>> the Suby. Except for my own stupidity. Now, Euro-shit is a
different matter. They probably don't do things as well as the >>>>>>>>> Japs.
We had an AC issue with our WRX, dealer looked at it 3 times and >>>>>>>> couldn't fix it, took it to an independent AC "specialist" and >>>>>>>> they also couldn't fix it, in the end I looked up the issue on >>>>>>>> Google, found the problem and fixed it in 10 mins, sometimes the >>>>>>>> biggest problem is that the "experts" don't know how to fix
things especially very new things.
I've owned 2 vans and a couple of wagons, all long before rear >>>>>>>> view cameras were invented yet I still managed to avoid backing >>>>>>>> into anything.
It's the first car that I've owned without a manual
handbrake, I used to use it any time I had to stop for more >>>>>>>>>>> than a few second, and disliked the electric ones. In this >>>>>>>>>>> one though, although it is electric, there is little reason >>>>>>>>>>> to to touch it, it comes on automatically in park, and there >>>>>>>>>>> is a hold function for the times when I'd have used the >>>>>>>>>>> manual one for a short stop.
Golf has an electric handbrake, I neither like or dislike it, >>>>>>>>>> on;y time they can be a pita is when changing rear pads, need >>>>>>>>>> to plug in a scan tool and tell the car what you are doing to >>>>>>>>>> stop it automatically applying the park brake.
I haven't found anything yet to really dislike, although I'm >>>>>>>>>>> not sure about the adaptive cruise control, maybe I'll get >>>>>>>>>>> used to it.
I've never owned a car with it but I've driven a few and think >>>>>>>>>> its a great idea, you have to keep an eye on your speed
because sometimes you don't notice if the car in front has >>>>>>>>>> slowed down causing your car to slow down.
**Well, that's true enough, but keeping one's eyes on the road >>>>>>>>> and the instruments is pretty much a basic driving procedure. >>>>>>>>>
-a-aIt has a
"Digital" rear view mirror, you can switch it between a >>>>>>>>>>> conventional mirror and a screen connected to a camera on the >>>>>>>>>>> tailgate. The picture from the camera is excellent, and gives >>>>>>>>>>> a wider view than the mirror. The problem is that looking in >>>>>>>>>>> a mirror, objects appear the same distance behind the mirror >>>>>>>>>>> as they are in front so your eyes don't need to re-focus. The >>>>>>>>>>> camera view, however, involves looking a screen centimetres >>>>>>>>>>> away, so it takes a finite time to re- focus when you glance >>>>>>>>>>> at it.
Seems pointless.
**Yeah, right up until you stick three front row forwards in >>>>>>>>> the back seat, or you load relatives luggage from their trip to >>>>>>>>> Japan in the back, when you collect them from the airport.
Trust me: If you want to see what is happening behind you, then >>>>>>>>> the electronic rear vision system (as in my Suby) is bloody >>>>>>>>> brilliant. With the Suby (and, I assume the Toyota), you can >>>>>>>>> change the magnification of the system very simply, if you ever >>>>>>>>> need it. Oh yeah: It's very, VERY good at night. Way better >>>>>>>>> than a simple rear vision mirror. That said, the Suby camera is >>>>>>>>> up high. roughly at the driver's eye level. The reversing
camera is mounted down low, where it needs to be. I am
surprised to hear that the Toyota has it's camera mounted below >>>>>>>>> the driver's eye- line.
All 3 of our cars have reverse cameras, the VW's is the best
because the camera is hidden under the rear VW badge so it stays >>>>>>>> clean, Porsche has the screen in the rear view mirror (after
market) and its not very good, better than nothing but only
just, the CLK also has an aftermarket rear camera, wasn't
working when I got the car because it wasn't wired properly
which I fixed, camera works okay but I still use the mirrors and >>>>>>>> listen for the factory front and rear parking sensors which I >>>>>>>> find to be more useful than the camera.
Trucks don't have a middle rear view mirror, I've never driven a >>>>>>>> truck fitted with a reversing camera, try reversing a 60foot
semi, you just need to take care.
IMHO too much reliance on car tech is dumbing down drivers,
driving standards are getting worse every day and I think
excessive tech is partly to blame.
could often be fixed in the field, but, if a Merc breaks, it a
back to the depot job.
The issue with Mercs, and any vehicle made by Germans, is that
they demand TLC in their maintenance.
Similarly, a friend did the trip to the Cape. At a garage at one >>>>>>> of the settlements, he saw a bunch of modern 4WDs out the back. >>>>>>> When he asked about them, he was told that they were waiting to >>>>>>> be taken south for scrapping. They had been submerged in tidal
rivers and the salt water had buggered the electronics to the
extent that the cost of repair exceeded the insurance value.
Any car, 4WDs included, if driven in water up to the level of the >>>>>> glass, is an automatic write off. That's because of the multitude >>>>>> of electrics and electronics inside the doors.-a Any car that has >>>>>> salt water *inside* the interior will also be an automatic write
off. The problem with salt water immersion is that the decay
happens over time so every single wiring connector will be eaten
away over time. Due to the low currents in electronic circuits,
this corrosion will create high resistances so the car will start >>>>>> having a myriad of strange gremlins cropping up. I have even seen >>>>>> complete tracks etched off circuit boards over time. Salt is bad
enough when the car is only exposed to road salting on the
underside - lots of gremlins - but they can be relatively easily
found because of connector accessibility. Not so with complete car >>>>>> immersion, the salt gets into *everything*.
Lots of words to say the obvious. The point is that the older cars, >>>>> even if they got problems, could be repaired reasonably easily and
economically, the cost of fixing the modern ones exceeds their worth. >>>>
Cost of everything has gone nuts, replaced the front windscreen
wipers on the Golf last week, cheapest I could find cost $75.00, it
may have been possible to just replace the inserts but no one
stocked them.
The problem with newer car with lots of electrics isn't so much the
cost of the parts but diagnosing problems can be very difficult even
for dealers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZtoHjJSZ4Y
The dealer spent something like 20k Euros trying to fix this
electric van but it still wasn't fixed, they told the owner it need
another huge pile of money spent on it to fix it so he gave up and
got rid of it.
It was eventually fixed by replacing a relatively cheap cable,
trouble is it took a huge amount of effort and a bit of luck to find
the problem.
It was not luck. As I have said many times, the DTCs do not always
tell you everything. Nor do they always tell you what the fault is -
or where. The problem in the trade is that people *think* the code
reader tells all - and that is where the issues start. The issues
continue with people thinking they know everything once they finish
their apprenticeship. Nothing could be further from reality. Too many
people in the trade know too little about electricity - much less
electronics. That needs to change. The above example is a clear cut
case of the mechanics *believing* the code reader whilst failing to
understand the issue. One cannot diagnose without an understanding of
both the systems and the underpinning electrical/electronic theory.
The primary issue is that the cable wasn't isolated from the system
whilst being tested. Anyone who has worked on discrete electronic
circuits knows that it is often necessary to isolate a component in
order to test it since in- circuit parasitic effects can affect
readings - as in this case. Isolate the cable, then test it - the
answer became crystal clear. Mechanics are currently struggling
understanding electronics, how much more training will they need to
understand networking and high DC voltages - the testing of such is a
different ball game to what traditional mechanics are used to. Given
some electric cars run DC voltages of up to 800 volts, I am surprised
that there is no universal *licence* to work on hybrids and BEVs.
Mostly the BEV trade is covered under subsidiary licences for non-
electricians who need to work on *some* electrical stuff - like HVAC
workers for instance.
The 14yo son (by a previous marriage) of my grandson-in-law wants to
be an auto electrician. I reckon that that will be a trade on the up
and up.
Its a good bet, people with excellent car electrical skills will be in
high demand.
Maybe mechanics figure they don't need to go back to Tech, they'll
just learn from *experience*. Just like Darren did when he
*experienced* what would happen when he removed ~20 thou of piston to
valve clearance on Les' engine. Hmm, that was a rather expensive
lesson, wasn't it? Not as expensive as the above parts cannon
exercise with the BEV but getting up there!
Just the usual crap that, for some strange reason, you find necessary
to include no matter the subject.
He can't help himself, he is wrong on all counts because it never
happened yet he keeping go over the same shit making a fool of himself
over and over again.
The people who couldn't find the fault were dealer trained and following
the manufactures fault finding procedures, the ones who eventually found
the fault were independents who worked it out without specific training
on that model, so much for dealing "training".
I was surprised to find that a friends 2-3yr old i30 not only had a full sized spare but it was also matching alloy wheel.
My CLK has a full size steel spare but the Porsche and Golf have space savers, doesn't matter to me because it was so long ago I can't remember that last time I fitted a spare wheel to any of our cars.
IMO a RAV4 is huge, I was parked next to one this afternoon at theI parked the RAV4 at a shopping centre this morning, it look quite
shopping centre, way too big for our needs.
large until a Haval parked next to it, then it didn't.
Just about all cars are getting bigger and bigger which to me is stupid,
a Corolla sized hatchback is bigger than my old C240, supposedly small
cars are now larger than old large cars.
https://ibb.co/V3RvwFx
On 31/12/2025 5:07 pm, Daryl wrote:
On 31/12/2025 3:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:You really don't have a clue, do you? It's all about understanding electrical concepts hence the ability to conduct effective testing. I
On 31/12/2025 12:31 pm, Xeno wrote:
On 31/12/2025 10:20 am, Daryl wrote:
On 30/12/2025 8:55 pm, keithr0 wrote:
On 30/12/2025 7:42 pm, Xeno wrote:
On 30/12/2025 3:14 pm, keithr0 wrote:
On 30/12/2025 9:04 am, Daryl wrote:
On 29/12/2025 8:49 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:Depends on the environment to some degree, I hear the Army
On 29/12/2025 8:19 pm, Daryl wrote:
On 29/12/2025 6:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
A week ago last Friday, the car fairy paid a visit, and, >>>>>>>>>>>> like all good fairies, left a present - a RAV4.
It has only done one journey beyond the local area, a 25Km >>>>>>>>>>>> trip to our daughter's place for Xmas day, but the economy >>>>>>>>>>>> looks OK, usually in the low 5s, sometimes in the upper 4s. >>>>>>>>>>>> It's quite a change from the Mazda 3, apart from the driving >>>>>>>>>>>> position being significantly higher, things have moved on in >>>>>>>>>>>> the 10 years since we bought the M3.
Not necessarily for the better IMO, too much electronics to >>>>>>>>>>> go wrong, most of it is pretty reliable but can be a
nightmare when it isn't.
**Bullshit. Electronics, in general, have improved car
reliability dramatically. I cite the example of EFI as one >>>>>>>>>> that has VASTLY improved almost every aspect of engine
flexibility, performance, economy and reliability.
Wasn't talking about anything basic such as engine management, >>>>>>>>> that's been around for a very long time but a lot of new things >>>>>>>>> such as surround cameras can and do fail, they did in my sons >>>>>>>>> 2022 200 Series Landcruiser, replaced under warranty but cost >>>>>>>>> many $1000s to repair.
I watch a lot of YouTube videos a lot of which are car repair >>>>>>>>> related and I've seen many that turn almost new cars into scrap >>>>>>>>> mostly due to electrical issues.
-a-aMy 8 year old Suby has enormous amounts of electronics. 23 >>>>>>>>>> CPUs amongst those components. NOTHING has ever gone wrong >>>>>>>>>> with the Suby. Except for my own stupidity. Now, Euro-shit is >>>>>>>>>> a different matter. They probably don't do things as well as >>>>>>>>>> the Japs.
We had an AC issue with our WRX, dealer looked at it 3 times >>>>>>>>> and couldn't fix it, took it to an independent AC "specialist" >>>>>>>>> and they also couldn't fix it, in the end I looked up the issue >>>>>>>>> on Google, found the problem and fixed it in 10 mins, sometimes >>>>>>>>> the biggest problem is that the "experts" don't know how to fix >>>>>>>>> things especially very new things.
I've owned 2 vans and a couple of wagons, all long before rear >>>>>>>>> view cameras were invented yet I still managed to avoid backing >>>>>>>>> into anything.
It's the first car that I've owned without a manual
handbrake, I used to use it any time I had to stop for more >>>>>>>>>>>> than a few second, and disliked the electric ones. In this >>>>>>>>>>>> one though, although it is electric, there is little reason >>>>>>>>>>>> to to touch it, it comes on automatically in park, and there >>>>>>>>>>>> is a hold function for the times when I'd have used the >>>>>>>>>>>> manual one for a short stop.
Golf has an electric handbrake, I neither like or dislike it, >>>>>>>>>>> on;y time they can be a pita is when changing rear pads, need >>>>>>>>>>> to plug in a scan tool and tell the car what you are doing to >>>>>>>>>>> stop it automatically applying the park brake.
I haven't found anything yet to really dislike, although I'm >>>>>>>>>>>> not sure about the adaptive cruise control, maybe I'll get >>>>>>>>>>>> used to it.
I've never owned a car with it but I've driven a few and >>>>>>>>>>> think its a great idea, you have to keep an eye on your speed >>>>>>>>>>> because sometimes you don't notice if the car in front has >>>>>>>>>>> slowed down causing your car to slow down.
**Well, that's true enough, but keeping one's eyes on the road >>>>>>>>>> and the instruments is pretty much a basic driving procedure. >>>>>>>>>>
-a-aIt has a
"Digital" rear view mirror, you can switch it between a >>>>>>>>>>>> conventional mirror and a screen connected to a camera on >>>>>>>>>>>> the tailgate. The picture from the camera is excellent, and >>>>>>>>>>>> gives a wider view than the mirror. The problem is that >>>>>>>>>>>> looking in a mirror, objects appear the same distance behind >>>>>>>>>>>> the mirror as they are in front so your eyes don't need to >>>>>>>>>>>> re-focus. The camera view, however, involves looking a >>>>>>>>>>>> screen centimetres away, so it takes a finite time to re- >>>>>>>>>>>> focus when you glance at it.
Seems pointless.
**Yeah, right up until you stick three front row forwards in >>>>>>>>>> the back seat, or you load relatives luggage from their trip >>>>>>>>>> to Japan in the back, when you collect them from the airport. >>>>>>>>>> Trust me: If you want to see what is happening behind you, >>>>>>>>>> then the electronic rear vision system (as in my Suby) is >>>>>>>>>> bloody brilliant. With the Suby (and, I assume the Toyota), >>>>>>>>>> you can change the magnification of the system very simply, if >>>>>>>>>> you ever need it. Oh yeah: It's very, VERY good at night. Way >>>>>>>>>> better than a simple rear vision mirror. That said, the Suby >>>>>>>>>> camera is up high. roughly at the driver's eye level. The >>>>>>>>>> reversing camera is mounted down low, where it needs to be. I >>>>>>>>>> am surprised to hear that the Toyota has it's camera mounted >>>>>>>>>> below the driver's eye- line.
All 3 of our cars have reverse cameras, the VW's is the best >>>>>>>>> because the camera is hidden under the rear VW badge so it
stays clean, Porsche has the screen in the rear view mirror >>>>>>>>> (after market) and its not very good, better than nothing but >>>>>>>>> only just, the CLK also has an aftermarket rear camera, wasn't >>>>>>>>> working when I got the car because it wasn't wired properly >>>>>>>>> which I fixed, camera works okay but I still use the mirrors >>>>>>>>> and listen for the factory front and rear parking sensors which >>>>>>>>> I find to be more useful than the camera.
Trucks don't have a middle rear view mirror, I've never driven >>>>>>>>> a truck fitted with a reversing camera, try reversing a 60foot >>>>>>>>> semi, you just need to take care.
IMHO too much reliance on car tech is dumbing down drivers, >>>>>>>>> driving standards are getting worse every day and I think
excessive tech is partly to blame.
aren't exactly enamoured the their Mercedes 4WDs, the old Land >>>>>>>> Rovers could often be fixed in the field, but, if a Merc breaks, >>>>>>>> it a back to the depot job.
The issue with Mercs, and any vehicle made by Germans, is that
they demand TLC in their maintenance.
Similarly, a friend did the trip to the Cape. At a garage at one >>>>>>>> of the settlements, he saw a bunch of modern 4WDs out the back. >>>>>>>> When he asked about them, he was told that they were waiting to >>>>>>>> be taken south for scrapping. They had been submerged in tidal >>>>>>>> rivers and the salt water had buggered the electronics to the >>>>>>>> extent that the cost of repair exceeded the insurance value.
Any car, 4WDs included, if driven in water up to the level of the >>>>>>> glass, is an automatic write off. That's because of the multitude >>>>>>> of electrics and electronics inside the doors.-a Any car that has >>>>>>> salt water *inside* the interior will also be an automatic write >>>>>>> off. The problem with salt water immersion is that the decay
happens over time so every single wiring connector will be eaten >>>>>>> away over time. Due to the low currents in electronic circuits, >>>>>>> this corrosion will create high resistances so the car will start >>>>>>> having a myriad of strange gremlins cropping up. I have even seen >>>>>>> complete tracks etched off circuit boards over time. Salt is bad >>>>>>> enough when the car is only exposed to road salting on the
underside - lots of gremlins - but they can be relatively easily >>>>>>> found because of connector accessibility. Not so with complete
car immersion, the salt gets into *everything*.
Lots of words to say the obvious. The point is that the older
cars, even if they got problems, could be repaired reasonably
easily and economically, the cost of fixing the modern ones
exceeds their worth.
Cost of everything has gone nuts, replaced the front windscreen
wipers on the Golf last week, cheapest I could find cost $75.00, it >>>>> may have been possible to just replace the inserts but no one
stocked them.
The problem with newer car with lots of electrics isn't so much the >>>>> cost of the parts but diagnosing problems can be very difficult
even for dealers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZtoHjJSZ4Y
The dealer spent something like 20k Euros trying to fix this
electric van but it still wasn't fixed, they told the owner it need >>>>> another huge pile of money spent on it to fix it so he gave up and
got rid of it.
It was eventually fixed by replacing a relatively cheap cable,
trouble is it took a huge amount of effort and a bit of luck to
find the problem.
It was not luck. As I have said many times, the DTCs do not always
tell you everything. Nor do they always tell you what the fault is -
or where. The problem in the trade is that people *think* the code
reader tells all - and that is where the issues start. The issues
continue with people thinking they know everything once they finish
their apprenticeship. Nothing could be further from reality. Too
many people in the trade know too little about electricity - much
less electronics. That needs to change. The above example is a clear
cut case of the mechanics *believing* the code reader whilst failing
to understand the issue. One cannot diagnose without an
understanding of both the systems and the underpinning electrical/
electronic theory. The primary issue is that the cable wasn't
isolated from the system whilst being tested. Anyone who has worked
on discrete electronic circuits knows that it is often necessary to
isolate a component in order to test it since in- circuit parasitic
effects can affect readings - as in this case. Isolate the cable,
then test it - the answer became crystal clear. Mechanics are
currently struggling understanding electronics, how much more
training will they need to understand networking and high DC
voltages - the testing of such is a different ball game to what
traditional mechanics are used to. Given some electric cars run DC
voltages of up to 800 volts, I am surprised that there is no
universal *licence* to work on hybrids and BEVs. Mostly the BEV
trade is covered under subsidiary licences for non- electricians who
need to work on *some* electrical stuff - like HVAC workers for
instance.
The 14yo son (by a previous marriage) of my grandson-in-law wants to
be an auto electrician. I reckon that that will be a trade on the up
and up.
Its a good bet, people with excellent car electrical skills will be in
high demand.
Maybe mechanics figure they don't need to go back to Tech, they'll
just learn from *experience*. Just like Darren did when he
*experienced* what would happen when he removed ~20 thou of piston
to valve clearance on Les' engine. Hmm, that was a rather expensive
lesson, wasn't it? Not as expensive as the above parts cannon
exercise with the BEV but getting up there!
Just the usual crap that, for some strange reason, you find necessary
to include no matter the subject.
He can't help himself, he is wrong on all counts because it never
happened yet he keeping go over the same shit making a fool of himself
over and over again.
The people who couldn't find the fault were dealer trained and
following the manufactures fault finding procedures, the ones who
eventually found the fault were independents who worked it out without
specific training on that model, so much for dealing "training".
have stated many times in the past - a lot of mechanics simply do not understand *electricity* well enough to do basic testing much less the testing of electronic or networking circuitry. Dealer training has
nothing to do with it. These chaps *understood* electrical concepts and
were able to translate that to an effective testing regime.
The concept
of isolating a faulty component from the rest of its circuitry is not
new and not isolated to electrical.
It is common in electronics to test
discrete components *out of circuit* so that the circuitry does not
provide any form of *loading*.
That is all the indies did, they
disconnected *both* ends of the HV Cable from the associated circuits
and that *isolated the fault to one of two wires which was then easy to test.
It is exactly what I would have done. Just need to have relevant
test equipment and know how to use it. That you need to be told this
tells me that your training in and understanding of electrical concepts
is also rather sparse.
keithr0 wrote:
I live about 500 metres from salt water, but neither my 30 odd year
old MX-5, or the 10 year old Mazda 3 showed any corrosion problems.
Oh btw Retcho.... Didn't you once say that you lived on the western side
of the Bruce?
On 1/01/2026 10:43 am, Daryl wrote:
I was surprised to find that a friends 2-3yr old i30 not only had a
full sized spare but it was also matching alloy wheel.
My CLK has a full size steel spare but the Porsche and Golf have space
savers, doesn't matter to me because it was so long ago I can't
remember that last time I fitted a spare wheel to any of our cars.
That's it right there. Carrying a spare wheel is fine, but the number of people who (a) are prepared to use it, and (b) know how to if they
wanted to is rapidly diminishing by the day. I simply cannot tell you
the number of older cars I've bought or worked on where the spare wheel still has the original tyre fitted and has never seen the road.
My old Fairlane is 56 years old this year, and it still has it's
original factory supplied ER70 Aquajet radial in the boot complete with
the tits still on it.
IMO a RAV4 is huge, I was parked next to one this afternoon at theI parked the RAV4 at a shopping centre this morning, it look quite
shopping centre, way too big for our needs.
large until a Haval parked next to it, then it didn't.
Just about all cars are getting bigger and bigger which to me is
stupid, a Corolla sized hatchback is bigger than my old C240,
supposedly small cars are now larger than old large cars.
I've shown this pic before, but the Fairlane was the largest car Ford Australia made back in the day.
https://ibb.co/V3RvwFx
Still makes me laugh :)
On 1/01/2026 10:43 am, Daryl wrote:
I was surprised to find that a friends 2-3yr old i30 not only had a
full sized spare but it was also matching alloy wheel.
My CLK has a full size steel spare but the Porsche and Golf have space
savers, doesn't matter to me because it was so long ago I can't
remember that last time I fitted a spare wheel to any of our cars.
That's it right there. Carrying a spare wheel is fine, but the number of people who (a) are prepared to use it, and (b) know how to if they
wanted to is rapidly diminishing by the day.
I simply cannot tell you
the number of older cars I've bought or worked on where the spare wheel still has the original tyre fitted and has never seen the road.
My old Fairlane is 56 years old this year, and it still has it's
original factory supplied ER70 Aquajet radial in the boot complete with
the tits still on it.
IMO a RAV4 is huge, I was parked next to one this afternoon at theI parked the RAV4 at a shopping centre this morning, it look quite
shopping centre, way too big for our needs.
large until a Haval parked next to it, then it didn't.
Just about all cars are getting bigger and bigger which to me is
stupid, a Corolla sized hatchback is bigger than my old C240,
supposedly small cars are now larger than old large cars.
I've shown this pic before, but the Fairlane was the largest car Ford Australia made back in the day.
https://ibb.co/V3RvwFx
Still makes me laugh :)
On 1/01/2026 10:43 am, Daryl wrote:
I was surprised to find that a friends 2-3yr old i30 not only had a
full sized spare but it was also matching alloy wheel.
My CLK has a full size steel spare but the Porsche and Golf have space
savers, doesn't matter to me because it was so long ago I can't
remember that last time I fitted a spare wheel to any of our cars.
That's it right there. Carrying a spare wheel is fine, but the number of people who (a) are prepared to use it, and (b) know how to if they
wanted to is rapidly diminishing by the day. I simply cannot tell you
the number of older cars I've bought or worked on where the spare wheel still has the original tyre fitted and has never seen the road.
My old Fairlane is 56 years old this year, and it still has it's
original factory supplied ER70 Aquajet radial in the boot complete with
the tits still on it.
IMO a RAV4 is huge, I was parked next to one this afternoon at theI parked the RAV4 at a shopping centre this morning, it look quite
shopping centre, way too big for our needs.
large until a Haval parked next to it, then it didn't.
Just about all cars are getting bigger and bigger which to me is
stupid, a Corolla sized hatchback is bigger than my old C240,
supposedly small cars are now larger than old large cars.
I've shown this pic before, but the Fairlane was the largest car Ford Australia made back in the day.
https://ibb.co/V3RvwFx
Still makes me laugh :)
On 1/01/2026 6:32 pm, Xeno wrote:
On 31/12/2025 5:07 pm, Daryl wrote:
On 31/12/2025 3:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:You really don't have a clue, do you? It's all about understanding
On 31/12/2025 12:31 pm, Xeno wrote:
On 31/12/2025 10:20 am, Daryl wrote:
On 30/12/2025 8:55 pm, keithr0 wrote:
On 30/12/2025 7:42 pm, Xeno wrote:
On 30/12/2025 3:14 pm, keithr0 wrote:
On 30/12/2025 9:04 am, Daryl wrote:
On 29/12/2025 8:49 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:Depends on the environment to some degree, I hear the Army
On 29/12/2025 8:19 pm, Daryl wrote:
On 29/12/2025 6:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
A week ago last Friday, the car fairy paid a visit, and, >>>>>>>>>>>>> like all good fairies, left a present - a RAV4.
It has only done one journey beyond the local area, a 25Km >>>>>>>>>>>>> trip to our daughter's place for Xmas day, but the economy >>>>>>>>>>>>> looks OK, usually in the low 5s, sometimes in the upper 4s. >>>>>>>>>>>>> It's quite a change from the Mazda 3, apart from the >>>>>>>>>>>>> driving position being significantly higher, things have >>>>>>>>>>>>> moved on in the 10 years since we bought the M3.
Not necessarily for the better IMO, too much electronics to >>>>>>>>>>>> go wrong, most of it is pretty reliable but can be a
nightmare when it isn't.
**Bullshit. Electronics, in general, have improved car
reliability dramatically. I cite the example of EFI as one >>>>>>>>>>> that has VASTLY improved almost every aspect of engine
flexibility, performance, economy and reliability.
Wasn't talking about anything basic such as engine management, >>>>>>>>>> that's been around for a very long time but a lot of new
things such as surround cameras can and do fail, they did in >>>>>>>>>> my sons 2022 200 Series Landcruiser, replaced under warranty >>>>>>>>>> but cost many $1000s to repair.
I watch a lot of YouTube videos a lot of which are car repair >>>>>>>>>> related and I've seen many that turn almost new cars into >>>>>>>>>> scrap mostly due to electrical issues.
-a-aMy 8 year old Suby has enormous amounts of electronics. 23 >>>>>>>>>>> CPUs amongst those components. NOTHING has ever gone wrong >>>>>>>>>>> with the Suby. Except for my own stupidity. Now, Euro-shit is >>>>>>>>>>> a different matter. They probably don't do things as well as >>>>>>>>>>> the Japs.
We had an AC issue with our WRX, dealer looked at it 3 times >>>>>>>>>> and couldn't fix it, took it to an independent AC "specialist" >>>>>>>>>> and they also couldn't fix it, in the end I looked up the >>>>>>>>>> issue on Google, found the problem and fixed it in 10 mins, >>>>>>>>>> sometimes the biggest problem is that the "experts" don't know >>>>>>>>>> how to fix things especially very new things.
I've owned 2 vans and a couple of wagons, all long before rear >>>>>>>>>> view cameras were invented yet I still managed to avoid
It's the first car that I've owned without a manual >>>>>>>>>>>>> handbrake, I used to use it any time I had to stop for more >>>>>>>>>>>>> than a few second, and disliked the electric ones. In this >>>>>>>>>>>>> one though, although it is electric, there is little reason >>>>>>>>>>>>> to to touch it, it comes on automatically in park, and >>>>>>>>>>>>> there is a hold function for the times when I'd have used >>>>>>>>>>>>> the manual one for a short stop.
Golf has an electric handbrake, I neither like or dislike >>>>>>>>>>>> it, on;y time they can be a pita is when changing rear pads, >>>>>>>>>>>> need to plug in a scan tool and tell the car what you are >>>>>>>>>>>> doing to stop it automatically applying the park brake. >>>>>>>>>>>>
I haven't found anything yet to really dislike, although >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not sure about the adaptive cruise control, maybe I'll >>>>>>>>>>>>> get used to it.
I've never owned a car with it but I've driven a few and >>>>>>>>>>>> think its a great idea, you have to keep an eye on your >>>>>>>>>>>> speed because sometimes you don't notice if the car in front >>>>>>>>>>>> has slowed down causing your car to slow down.
**Well, that's true enough, but keeping one's eyes on the >>>>>>>>>>> road and the instruments is pretty much a basic driving >>>>>>>>>>> procedure.
-a-aIt has a
"Digital" rear view mirror, you can switch it between a >>>>>>>>>>>>> conventional mirror and a screen connected to a camera on >>>>>>>>>>>>> the tailgate. The picture from the camera is excellent, and >>>>>>>>>>>>> gives a wider view than the mirror. The problem is that >>>>>>>>>>>>> looking in a mirror, objects appear the same distance >>>>>>>>>>>>> behind the mirror as they are in front so your eyes don't >>>>>>>>>>>>> need to re-focus. The camera view, however, involves >>>>>>>>>>>>> looking a screen centimetres away, so it takes a finite >>>>>>>>>>>>> time to re- focus when you glance at it.
Seems pointless.
**Yeah, right up until you stick three front row forwards in >>>>>>>>>>> the back seat, or you load relatives luggage from their trip >>>>>>>>>>> to Japan in the back, when you collect them from the airport. >>>>>>>>>>> Trust me: If you want to see what is happening behind you, >>>>>>>>>>> then the electronic rear vision system (as in my Suby) is >>>>>>>>>>> bloody brilliant. With the Suby (and, I assume the Toyota), >>>>>>>>>>> you can change the magnification of the system very simply, >>>>>>>>>>> if you ever need it. Oh yeah: It's very, VERY good at night. >>>>>>>>>>> Way better than a simple rear vision mirror. That said, the >>>>>>>>>>> Suby camera is up high. roughly at the driver's eye level. >>>>>>>>>>> The reversing camera is mounted down low, where it needs to >>>>>>>>>>> be. I am surprised to hear that the Toyota has it's camera >>>>>>>>>>> mounted below the driver's eye- line.
backing into anything.
All 3 of our cars have reverse cameras, the VW's is the best >>>>>>>>>> because the camera is hidden under the rear VW badge so it >>>>>>>>>> stays clean, Porsche has the screen in the rear view mirror >>>>>>>>>> (after market) and its not very good, better than nothing but >>>>>>>>>> only just, the CLK also has an aftermarket rear camera, wasn't >>>>>>>>>> working when I got the car because it wasn't wired properly >>>>>>>>>> which I fixed, camera works okay but I still use the mirrors >>>>>>>>>> and listen for the factory front and rear parking sensors >>>>>>>>>> which I find to be more useful than the camera.
Trucks don't have a middle rear view mirror, I've never driven >>>>>>>>>> a truck fitted with a reversing camera, try reversing a 60foot >>>>>>>>>> semi, you just need to take care.
IMHO too much reliance on car tech is dumbing down drivers, >>>>>>>>>> driving standards are getting worse every day and I think >>>>>>>>>> excessive tech is partly to blame.
aren't exactly enamoured the their Mercedes 4WDs, the old Land >>>>>>>>> Rovers could often be fixed in the field, but, if a Merc
breaks, it a back to the depot job.
The issue with Mercs, and any vehicle made by Germans, is that >>>>>>>> they demand TLC in their maintenance.
Similarly, a friend did the trip to the Cape. At a garage at >>>>>>>>> one of the settlements, he saw a bunch of modern 4WDs out the >>>>>>>>> back. When he asked about them, he was told that they were
waiting to be taken south for scrapping. They had been
submerged in tidal rivers and the salt water had buggered the >>>>>>>>> electronics to the extent that the cost of repair exceeded the >>>>>>>>> insurance value.
Any car, 4WDs included, if driven in water up to the level of >>>>>>>> the glass, is an automatic write off. That's because of the
multitude of electrics and electronics inside the doors.-a Any >>>>>>>> car that has salt water *inside* the interior will also be an >>>>>>>> automatic write off. The problem with salt water immersion is >>>>>>>> that the decay happens over time so every single wiring
connector will be eaten away over time. Due to the low currents >>>>>>>> in electronic circuits, this corrosion will create high
resistances so the car will start having a myriad of strange
gremlins cropping up. I have even seen complete tracks etched >>>>>>>> off circuit boards over time. Salt is bad enough when the car is >>>>>>>> only exposed to road salting on the underside - lots of gremlins >>>>>>>> - but they can be relatively easily found because of connector >>>>>>>> accessibility. Not so with complete car immersion, the salt gets >>>>>>>> into *everything*.
Lots of words to say the obvious. The point is that the older
cars, even if they got problems, could be repaired reasonably
easily and economically, the cost of fixing the modern ones
exceeds their worth.
Cost of everything has gone nuts, replaced the front windscreen
wipers on the Golf last week, cheapest I could find cost $75.00,
it may have been possible to just replace the inserts but no one
stocked them.
The problem with newer car with lots of electrics isn't so much
the cost of the parts but diagnosing problems can be very
difficult even for dealers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZtoHjJSZ4Y
The dealer spent something like 20k Euros trying to fix this
electric van but it still wasn't fixed, they told the owner it
need another huge pile of money spent on it to fix it so he gave
up and got rid of it.
It was eventually fixed by replacing a relatively cheap cable,
trouble is it took a huge amount of effort and a bit of luck to
find the problem.
It was not luck. As I have said many times, the DTCs do not always
tell you everything. Nor do they always tell you what the fault is
- or where. The problem in the trade is that people *think* the
code reader tells all - and that is where the issues start. The
issues continue with people thinking they know everything once they >>>>> finish their apprenticeship. Nothing could be further from reality. >>>>> Too many people in the trade know too little about electricity -
much less electronics. That needs to change. The above example is a >>>>> clear cut case of the mechanics *believing* the code reader whilst
failing to understand the issue. One cannot diagnose without an
understanding of both the systems and the underpinning electrical/
electronic theory. The primary issue is that the cable wasn't
isolated from the system whilst being tested. Anyone who has worked >>>>> on discrete electronic circuits knows that it is often necessary to >>>>> isolate a component in order to test it since in- circuit parasitic >>>>> effects can affect readings - as in this case. Isolate the cable,
then test it - the answer became crystal clear. Mechanics are
currently struggling understanding electronics, how much more
training will they need to understand networking and high DC
voltages - the testing of such is a different ball game to what
traditional mechanics are used to. Given some electric cars run DC
voltages of up to 800 volts, I am surprised that there is no
universal *licence* to work on hybrids and BEVs. Mostly the BEV
trade is covered under subsidiary licences for non- electricians
who need to work on *some* electrical stuff - like HVAC workers for >>>>> instance.
The 14yo son (by a previous marriage) of my grandson-in-law wants to
be an auto electrician. I reckon that that will be a trade on the up
and up.
Its a good bet, people with excellent car electrical skills will be
in high demand.
Maybe mechanics figure they don't need to go back to Tech, they'll
just learn from *experience*. Just like Darren did when he
*experienced* what would happen when he removed ~20 thou of piston
to valve clearance on Les' engine. Hmm, that was a rather expensive >>>>> lesson, wasn't it? Not as expensive as the above parts cannon
exercise with the BEV but getting up there!
Just the usual crap that, for some strange reason, you find
necessary to include no matter the subject.
He can't help himself, he is wrong on all counts because it never
happened yet he keeping go over the same shit making a fool of
himself over and over again.
The people who couldn't find the fault were dealer trained and
following the manufactures fault finding procedures, the ones who
eventually found the fault were independents who worked it out
without specific training on that model, so much for dealing "training". >>>
electrical concepts hence the ability to conduct effective testing. I
have stated many times in the past - a lot of mechanics simply do not
understand *electricity* well enough to do basic testing much less the
testing of electronic or networking circuitry. Dealer training has
nothing to do with it. These chaps *understood* electrical concepts
and were able to translate that to an effective testing regime.
I.E. talent is more important than qualifications. Thanks for agreeing.
On 1/01/2026 8:15 pm, Noddy wrote:
On 1/01/2026 10:43 am, Daryl wrote:
I was surprised to find that a friends 2-3yr old i30 not only had a
full sized spare but it was also matching alloy wheel.
My CLK has a full size steel spare but the Porsche and Golf have
space savers, doesn't matter to me because it was so long ago I can't
remember that last time I fitted a spare wheel to any of our cars.
That's it right there. Carrying a spare wheel is fine, but the number
of people who (a) are prepared to use it, and (b) know how to if they
wanted to is rapidly diminishing by the day.
That's because they are a bunch of panseys.
puddle in my VW Passat. It was obvious that the tyre was totally fucked
due to a chunk taken out of the sidewall. So, in the pouring rain, out
with the spare and tools. A yank cop stopped, (can't imagine a QLD cop
doing so) put a warning flare on the road and held the torch while I
changed the tyre. He remarked that it was the first time in years that
he had seen someone change their own tyre. I thought that it was just America, but apparently not.
On 1/01/2026 12:15 pm, alvey wrote:
keithr0 wrote:Nope.
I live about 500 metres from salt water, but neither my 30 odd year
old MX-5, or the 10 year old Mazda 3 showed any corrosion problems.
Oh btw Retcho.... Didn't you once say that you lived on the western
side of the Bruce?
On 1/1/2026 9:41 pm, keithr0 wrote:
On 1/01/2026 6:32 pm, Xeno wrote:
On 31/12/2025 5:07 pm, Daryl wrote:
On 31/12/2025 3:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:You really don't have a clue, do you? It's all about understanding
On 31/12/2025 12:31 pm, Xeno wrote:
On 31/12/2025 10:20 am, Daryl wrote:
On 30/12/2025 8:55 pm, keithr0 wrote:
On 30/12/2025 7:42 pm, Xeno wrote:
On 30/12/2025 3:14 pm, keithr0 wrote:
On 30/12/2025 9:04 am, Daryl wrote:
On 29/12/2025 8:49 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:Depends on the environment to some degree, I hear the Army >>>>>>>>>> aren't exactly enamoured the their Mercedes 4WDs, the old Land >>>>>>>>>> Rovers could often be fixed in the field, but, if a Merc
On 29/12/2025 8:19 pm, Daryl wrote:
On 29/12/2025 6:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
A week ago last Friday, the car fairy paid a visit, and, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> like all good fairies, left a present - a RAV4.
It has only done one journey beyond the local area, a 25Km >>>>>>>>>>>>>> trip to our daughter's place for Xmas day, but the economy >>>>>>>>>>>>>> looks OK, usually in the low 5s, sometimes in the upper 4s. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's quite a change from the Mazda 3, apart from the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> driving position being significantly higher, things have >>>>>>>>>>>>>> moved on in the 10 years since we bought the M3.
Not necessarily for the better IMO, too much electronics to >>>>>>>>>>>>> go wrong, most of it is pretty reliable but can be a >>>>>>>>>>>>> nightmare when it isn't.
**Bullshit. Electronics, in general, have improved car >>>>>>>>>>>> reliability dramatically. I cite the example of EFI as one >>>>>>>>>>>> that has VASTLY improved almost every aspect of engine >>>>>>>>>>>> flexibility, performance, economy and reliability.
Wasn't talking about anything basic such as engine management, >>>>>>>>>>> that's been around for a very long time but a lot of new >>>>>>>>>>> things such as surround cameras can and do fail, they did in >>>>>>>>>>> my sons 2022 200 Series Landcruiser, replaced under warranty >>>>>>>>>>> but cost many $1000s to repair.
I watch a lot of YouTube videos a lot of which are car repair >>>>>>>>>>> related and I've seen many that turn almost new cars into >>>>>>>>>>> scrap mostly due to electrical issues.
-a-aMy 8 year old Suby has enormous amounts of electronics. 23 >>>>>>>>>>>> CPUs amongst those components. NOTHING has ever gone wrong >>>>>>>>>>>> with the Suby. Except for my own stupidity. Now, Euro-shit is >>>>>>>>>>>> a different matter. They probably don't do things as well as >>>>>>>>>>>> the Japs.
We had an AC issue with our WRX, dealer looked at it 3 times >>>>>>>>>>> and couldn't fix it, took it to an independent AC "specialist" >>>>>>>>>>> and they also couldn't fix it, in the end I looked up the >>>>>>>>>>> issue on Google, found the problem and fixed it in 10 mins, >>>>>>>>>>> sometimes the biggest problem is that the "experts" don't know >>>>>>>>>>> how to fix things especially very new things.
I've owned 2 vans and a couple of wagons, all long before rear >>>>>>>>>>> view cameras were invented yet I still managed to avoid >>>>>>>>>>> backing into anything.
It's the first car that I've owned without a manual >>>>>>>>>>>>>> handbrake, I used to use it any time I had to stop for more >>>>>>>>>>>>>> than a few second, and disliked the electric ones. In this >>>>>>>>>>>>>> one though, although it is electric, there is little reason >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to to touch it, it comes on automatically in park, and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> there is a hold function for the times when I'd have used >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the manual one for a short stop.
Golf has an electric handbrake, I neither like or dislike >>>>>>>>>>>>> it, on;y time they can be a pita is when changing rear pads, >>>>>>>>>>>>> need to plug in a scan tool and tell the car what you are >>>>>>>>>>>>> doing to stop it automatically applying the park brake. >>>>>>>>>>>>>
I haven't found anything yet to really dislike, although >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not sure about the adaptive cruise control, maybe I'll >>>>>>>>>>>>>> get used to it.
I've never owned a car with it but I've driven a few and >>>>>>>>>>>>> think its a great idea, you have to keep an eye on your >>>>>>>>>>>>> speed because sometimes you don't notice if the car in front >>>>>>>>>>>>> has slowed down causing your car to slow down.
**Well, that's true enough, but keeping one's eyes on the >>>>>>>>>>>> road and the instruments is pretty much a basic driving >>>>>>>>>>>> procedure.
-a-aIt has a
"Digital" rear view mirror, you can switch it between a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> conventional mirror and a screen connected to a camera on >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the tailgate. The picture from the camera is excellent, and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> gives a wider view than the mirror. The problem is that >>>>>>>>>>>>>> looking in a mirror, objects appear the same distance >>>>>>>>>>>>>> behind the mirror as they are in front so your eyes don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>> need to re-focus. The camera view, however, involves >>>>>>>>>>>>>> looking a screen centimetres away, so it takes a finite >>>>>>>>>>>>>> time to re- focus when you glance at it.
Seems pointless.
**Yeah, right up until you stick three front row forwards in >>>>>>>>>>>> the back seat, or you load relatives luggage from their trip >>>>>>>>>>>> to Japan in the back, when you collect them from the airport. >>>>>>>>>>>> Trust me: If you want to see what is happening behind you, >>>>>>>>>>>> then the electronic rear vision system (as in my Suby) is >>>>>>>>>>>> bloody brilliant. With the Suby (and, I assume the Toyota), >>>>>>>>>>>> you can change the magnification of the system very simply, >>>>>>>>>>>> if you ever need it. Oh yeah: It's very, VERY good at night. >>>>>>>>>>>> Way better than a simple rear vision mirror. That said, the >>>>>>>>>>>> Suby camera is up high. roughly at the driver's eye level. >>>>>>>>>>>> The reversing camera is mounted down low, where it needs to >>>>>>>>>>>> be. I am surprised to hear that the Toyota has it's camera >>>>>>>>>>>> mounted below the driver's eye- line.
All 3 of our cars have reverse cameras, the VW's is the best >>>>>>>>>>> because the camera is hidden under the rear VW badge so it >>>>>>>>>>> stays clean, Porsche has the screen in the rear view mirror >>>>>>>>>>> (after market) and its not very good, better than nothing but >>>>>>>>>>> only just, the CLK also has an aftermarket rear camera, wasn't >>>>>>>>>>> working when I got the car because it wasn't wired properly >>>>>>>>>>> which I fixed, camera works okay but I still use the mirrors >>>>>>>>>>> and listen for the factory front and rear parking sensors >>>>>>>>>>> which I find to be more useful than the camera.
Trucks don't have a middle rear view mirror, I've never driven >>>>>>>>>>> a truck fitted with a reversing camera, try reversing a 60foot >>>>>>>>>>> semi, you just need to take care.
IMHO too much reliance on car tech is dumbing down drivers, >>>>>>>>>>> driving standards are getting worse every day and I think >>>>>>>>>>> excessive tech is partly to blame.
breaks, it a back to the depot job.
The issue with Mercs, and any vehicle made by Germans, is that >>>>>>>>> they demand TLC in their maintenance.
Similarly, a friend did the trip to the Cape. At a garage at >>>>>>>>>> one of the settlements, he saw a bunch of modern 4WDs out the >>>>>>>>>> back. When he asked about them, he was told that they were >>>>>>>>>> waiting to be taken south for scrapping. They had been
submerged in tidal rivers and the salt water had buggered the >>>>>>>>>> electronics to the extent that the cost of repair exceeded the >>>>>>>>>> insurance value.
Any car, 4WDs included, if driven in water up to the level of >>>>>>>>> the glass, is an automatic write off. That's because of the >>>>>>>>> multitude of electrics and electronics inside the doors.-a Any >>>>>>>>> car that has salt water *inside* the interior will also be an >>>>>>>>> automatic write off. The problem with salt water immersion is >>>>>>>>> that the decay happens over time so every single wiring
connector will be eaten away over time. Due to the low currents >>>>>>>>> in electronic circuits, this corrosion will create high
resistances so the car will start having a myriad of strange >>>>>>>>> gremlins cropping up. I have even seen complete tracks etched >>>>>>>>> off circuit boards over time. Salt is bad enough when the car is >>>>>>>>> only exposed to road salting on the underside - lots of gremlins >>>>>>>>> - but they can be relatively easily found because of connector >>>>>>>>> accessibility. Not so with complete car immersion, the salt gets >>>>>>>>> into *everything*.
Lots of words to say the obvious. The point is that the older >>>>>>>> cars, even if they got problems, could be repaired reasonably >>>>>>>> easily and economically, the cost of fixing the modern ones
exceeds their worth.
Cost of everything has gone nuts, replaced the front windscreen >>>>>>> wipers on the Golf last week, cheapest I could find cost $75.00, >>>>>>> it may have been possible to just replace the inserts but no one >>>>>>> stocked them.
The problem with newer car with lots of electrics isn't so much >>>>>>> the cost of the parts but diagnosing problems can be very
difficult even for dealers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZtoHjJSZ4Y
The dealer spent something like 20k Euros trying to fix this
electric van but it still wasn't fixed, they told the owner it
need another huge pile of money spent on it to fix it so he gave >>>>>>> up and got rid of it.
It was eventually fixed by replacing a relatively cheap cable,
trouble is it took a huge amount of effort and a bit of luck to >>>>>>> find the problem.
It was not luck. As I have said many times, the DTCs do not always >>>>>> tell you everything. Nor do they always tell you what the fault is >>>>>> - or where. The problem in the trade is that people *think* the
code reader tells all - and that is where the issues start. The
issues continue with people thinking they know everything once they >>>>>> finish their apprenticeship. Nothing could be further from reality. >>>>>> Too many people in the trade know too little about electricity -
much less electronics. That needs to change. The above example is a >>>>>> clear cut case of the mechanics *believing* the code reader whilst >>>>>> failing to understand the issue. One cannot diagnose without an
understanding of both the systems and the underpinning electrical/ >>>>>> electronic theory. The primary issue is that the cable wasn't
isolated from the system whilst being tested. Anyone who has worked >>>>>> on discrete electronic circuits knows that it is often necessary to >>>>>> isolate a component in order to test it since in- circuit parasitic >>>>>> effects can affect readings - as in this case. Isolate the cable, >>>>>> then test it - the answer became crystal clear. Mechanics are
currently struggling understanding electronics, how much more
training will they need to understand networking and high DC
voltages - the testing of such is a different ball game to what
traditional mechanics are used to. Given some electric cars run DC >>>>>> voltages of up to 800 volts, I am surprised that there is no
universal *licence* to work on hybrids and BEVs. Mostly the BEV
trade is covered under subsidiary licences for non- electricians
who need to work on *some* electrical stuff - like HVAC workers for >>>>>> instance.
The 14yo son (by a previous marriage) of my grandson-in-law wants to >>>>> be an auto electrician. I reckon that that will be a trade on the up >>>>> and up.
Its a good bet, people with excellent car electrical skills will be
in high demand.
Maybe mechanics figure they don't need to go back to Tech, they'll >>>>>> just learn from *experience*. Just like Darren did when he
*experienced* what would happen when he removed ~20 thou of piston >>>>>> to valve clearance on Les' engine. Hmm, that was a rather expensive >>>>>> lesson, wasn't it? Not as expensive as the above parts cannon
exercise with the BEV but getting up there!
Just the usual crap that, for some strange reason, you find
necessary to include no matter the subject.
He can't help himself, he is wrong on all counts because it never
happened yet he keeping go over the same shit making a fool of
himself over and over again.
The people who couldn't find the fault were dealer trained and
following the manufactures fault finding procedures, the ones who
eventually found the fault were independents who worked it out
without specific training on that model, so much for dealing "training". >>>>
electrical concepts hence the ability to conduct effective testing. I
have stated many times in the past - a lot of mechanics simply do not
understand *electricity* well enough to do basic testing much less the
testing of electronic or networking circuitry. Dealer training has
nothing to do with it. These chaps *understood* electrical concepts
and were able to translate that to an effective testing regime.
I.E. talent is more important than qualifications. Thanks for agreeing.
LOL, took a while but seems he finally got it, despite being dealer
trained and following the manufactures fault finding process they still couldn't fix it, it took someone using common sense and lateral thinking
to work it out.
On 1/01/2026 6:32 pm, Xeno wrote:
On 31/12/2025 5:07 pm, Daryl wrote:
On 31/12/2025 3:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
On 31/12/2025 12:31 pm, Xeno wrote:
On 31/12/2025 10:20 am, Daryl wrote:
You really don't have a clue, do you? It's all about understanding
Maybe mechanics figure they don't need to go back to Tech, they'll
just learn from *experience*. Just like Darren did when he
*experienced* what would happen when he removed ~20 thou of piston
to valve clearance on Les' engine. Hmm, that was a rather expensive >>>>> lesson, wasn't it? Not as expensive as the above parts cannon
exercise with the BEV but getting up there!
Just the usual crap that, for some strange reason, you find
necessary to include no matter the subject.
He can't help himself, he is wrong on all counts because it never
happened yet he keeping go over the same shit making a fool of
himself over and over again.
The people who couldn't find the fault were dealer trained and
following the manufactures fault finding procedures, the ones who
eventually found the fault were independents who worked it out
without specific training on that model, so much for dealing "training". >>>
electrical concepts hence the ability to conduct effective testing. I
have stated many times in the past - a lot of mechanics simply do not
understand *electricity* well enough to do basic testing much less the
testing of electronic or networking circuitry. Dealer training has
nothing to do with it. These chaps *understood* electrical concepts
and were able to translate that to an effective testing regime.
I.E. talent is more important than qualifications. Thanks for agreeing.
The concept of isolating a faulty component from the rest of its
circuitry is not new and not isolated to electrical.
Rare these days in electronics
It is common in electronics to test discrete components *out of
circuit* so that the circuitry does not provide any form of *loading*.
You obviously know little about fault finding electronics, it's rare to
have to do that, 90% of the time, the only reason that you take a
component out of circuit is because you have already determined that it
is faulty.
That is all the indies did, they disconnected *both* ends of the HV
Cable from the associated circuits and that *isolated the fault to one
of two wires which was then easy to test.
Test how?
It is exactly what I would have done. Just need to have relevant test
equipment and know how to use it. That you need to be told this tells
me that your training in and understanding of electrical concepts is
also rather sparse.
ROTFL, Your knowledge of diagnosing electronics is about on the same
level as the 14yo who wants to be an auto sparky.
The most difficult part of diagnosing electronic faults is recreating
the problem, if it is there constantly, it's gift. Take it from somebody
who spent 40 years fixing electronics of all kinds.
On 31/12/2025 10:20 am, Daryl wrote:
On 30/12/2025 8:55 pm, keithr0 wrote:
On 30/12/2025 7:42 pm, Xeno wrote:
On 30/12/2025 3:14 pm, keithr0 wrote:
On 30/12/2025 9:04 am, Daryl wrote:
On 29/12/2025 8:49 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:Depends on the environment to some degree, I hear the Army aren't
On 29/12/2025 8:19 pm, Daryl wrote:
On 29/12/2025 6:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
A week ago last Friday, the car fairy paid a visit, and, like >>>>>>>>> all good fairies, left a present - a RAV4.
It has only done one journey beyond the local area, a 25Km trip >>>>>>>>> to our daughter's place for Xmas day, but the economy looks OK, >>>>>>>>> usually in the low 5s, sometimes in the upper 4s. It's quite a >>>>>>>>> change from the Mazda 3, apart from the driving position being >>>>>>>>> significantly higher, things have moved on in the 10 years
since we bought the M3.
Not necessarily for the better IMO, too much electronics to go >>>>>>>> wrong, most of it is pretty reliable but can be a nightmare when >>>>>>>> it isn't.
**Bullshit. Electronics, in general, have improved car
reliability dramatically. I cite the example of EFI as one that >>>>>>> has VASTLY improved almost every aspect of engine flexibility,
performance, economy and reliability.
Wasn't talking about anything basic such as engine management,
that's been around for a very long time but a lot of new things
such as surround cameras can and do fail, they did in my sons 2022 >>>>>> 200 Series Landcruiser, replaced under warranty but cost many
$1000s to repair.
I watch a lot of YouTube videos a lot of which are car repair
related and I've seen many that turn almost new cars into scrap
mostly due to electrical issues.
-a-aMy 8 year old Suby has enormous amounts of electronics. 23
CPUs amongst those components. NOTHING has ever gone wrong with >>>>>>> the Suby. Except for my own stupidity. Now, Euro-shit is aWe had an AC issue with our WRX, dealer looked at it 3 times and
different matter. They probably don't do things as well as the Japs. >>>>>>
couldn't fix it, took it to an independent AC "specialist" and
they also couldn't fix it, in the end I looked up the issue on
Google, found the problem and fixed it in 10 mins, sometimes the
biggest problem is that the "experts" don't know how to fix things >>>>>> especially very new things.
I've owned 2 vans and a couple of wagons, all long before rear
Golf has an electric handbrake, I neither like or dislike it, >>>>>>>> on;y time they can be a pita is when changing rear pads, need to >>>>>>>> plug in a scan tool and tell the car what you are doing to stop >>>>>>>> it automatically applying the park brake.
It's the first car that I've owned without a manual handbrake, >>>>>>>>> I used to use it any time I had to stop for more than a few >>>>>>>>> second, and disliked the electric ones. In this one though, >>>>>>>>> although it is electric, there is little reason to to touch it, >>>>>>>>> it comes on automatically in park, and there is a hold function >>>>>>>>> for the times when I'd have used the manual one for a short stop. >>>>>>>>
I haven't found anything yet to really dislike, although I'm >>>>>>>>> not sure about the adaptive cruise control, maybe I'll get used >>>>>>>>> to it.
I've never owned a car with it but I've driven a few and think >>>>>>>> its a great idea, you have to keep an eye on your speed because >>>>>>>> sometimes you don't notice if the car in front has slowed down >>>>>>>> causing your car to slow down.
**Well, that's true enough, but keeping one's eyes on the road
and the instruments is pretty much a basic driving procedure.
-a-aIt has a
"Digital" rear view mirror, you can switch it between a
conventional mirror and a screen connected to a camera on the >>>>>>>>> tailgate. The picture from the camera is excellent, and gives a >>>>>>>>> wider view than the mirror. The problem is that looking in a >>>>>>>>> mirror, objects appear the same distance behind the mirror as >>>>>>>>> they are in front so your eyes don't need to re-focus. The
camera view, however, involves looking a screen centimetres >>>>>>>>> away, so it takes a finite time to re- focus when you glance at >>>>>>>>> it.
Seems pointless.
**Yeah, right up until you stick three front row forwards in the >>>>>>> back seat, or you load relatives luggage from their trip to Japan >>>>>>> in the back, when you collect them from the airport. Trust me: If >>>>>>> you want to see what is happening behind you, then the electronic >>>>>>> rear vision system (as in my Suby) is bloody brilliant. With the >>>>>>> Suby (and, I assume the Toyota), you can change the magnification >>>>>>> of the system very simply, if you ever need it. Oh yeah: It's
very, VERY good at night. Way better than a simple rear vision
mirror. That said, the Suby camera is up high. roughly at the
driver's eye level. The reversing camera is mounted down low,
where it needs to be. I am surprised to hear that the Toyota has >>>>>>> it's camera mounted below the driver's eye-line.
view cameras were invented yet I still managed to avoid backing
into anything.
All 3 of our cars have reverse cameras, the VW's is the best
because the camera is hidden under the rear VW badge so it stays
clean, Porsche has the screen in the rear view mirror (after
market) and its not very good, better than nothing but only just, >>>>>> the CLK also has an aftermarket rear camera, wasn't working when I >>>>>> got the car because it wasn't wired properly which I fixed, camera >>>>>> works okay but I still use the mirrors and listen for the factory >>>>>> front and rear parking sensors which I find to be more useful than >>>>>> the camera.
Trucks don't have a middle rear view mirror, I've never driven a
truck fitted with a reversing camera, try reversing a 60foot semi, >>>>>> you just need to take care.
IMHO too much reliance on car tech is dumbing down drivers,
driving standards are getting worse every day and I think
excessive tech is partly to blame.
exactly enamoured the their Mercedes 4WDs, the old Land Rovers
could often be fixed in the field, but, if a Merc breaks, it a back >>>>> to the depot job.
The issue with Mercs, and any vehicle made by Germans, is that they
demand TLC in their maintenance.
Similarly, a friend did the trip to the Cape. At a garage at one of >>>>> the settlements, he saw a bunch of modern 4WDs out the back. When
he asked about them, he was told that they were waiting to be taken >>>>> south for scrapping. They had been submerged in tidal rivers and
the salt water had buggered the electronics to the extent that the
cost of repair exceeded the insurance value.
Any car, 4WDs included, if driven in water up to the level of the
glass, is an automatic write off. That's because of the multitude of
electrics and electronics inside the doors.-a Any car that has salt
water *inside* the interior will also be an automatic write off. The
problem with salt water immersion is that the decay happens over
time so every single wiring connector will be eaten away over time.
Due to the low currents in electronic circuits, this corrosion will
create high resistances so the car will start having a myriad of
strange gremlins cropping up. I have even seen complete tracks
etched off circuit boards over time. Salt is bad enough when the car
is only exposed to road salting on the underside - lots of gremlins
- but they can be relatively easily found because of connector
accessibility. Not so with complete car immersion, the salt gets
into *everything*.
Lots of words to say the obvious. The point is that the older cars,
even if they got problems, could be repaired reasonably easily and
economically, the cost of fixing the modern ones exceeds their worth.
Cost of everything has gone nuts, replaced the front windscreen wipers
on the Golf last week, cheapest I could find cost $75.00, it may have
been possible to just replace the inserts but no one stocked them.
The problem with newer car with lots of electrics isn't so much the
cost of the parts but diagnosing problems can be very difficult even
for dealers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZtoHjJSZ4Y
The dealer spent something like 20k Euros trying to fix this electric
van but it still wasn't fixed, they told the owner it need another
huge pile of money spent on it to fix it so he gave up and got rid of it.
It was eventually fixed by replacing a relatively cheap cable, trouble
is it took a huge amount of effort and a bit of luck to find the problem.
It was not luck. As I have said many times, the DTCs do not always tell
you everything. Nor do they always tell you what the fault is - or
where. The problem in the trade is that people *think* the code reader
tells all - and that is where the issues start.
people thinking they know everything once they finish their
apprenticeship.
in the trade know too little about electricity - much less electronics.
That needs to change. The above example is a clear cut case of the
mechanics *believing* the code reader whilst failing to understand the issue.
On 30/12/2025 8:15 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 29/12/2025 9:03 pm, Noddy wrote:
**Bullshit. Electronics, in general, have improved car reliability
dramatically.
Come on Trev. You're taking the piss, surely :)
**Nope. Unlike you (apparently), I've owned a large range of cars,
with varying levels of electronics within their systems. As I moved
from car to car, reliability improved, as more electronic systems were
introduced. My VH Commodore, for instance, with it's relatively
primitive electronic ignition system, was a vast improvement (WRT
reliability and reduced maintenance) over my previous Ford Escorts and
Holden (FC) I owned. My VL was a huge leap again, with it's EFI
system. And so on. I vividly recall how often I had to change points,
adjust timing and all those other things. Perhaps you've forgotten.
Not at all. I still own vehicles that have points ignition systems and carburettors. They're generally not anywhere near as problematic as you
make them out to be,
no idea what they were doing messing with them. Their overwhelming
advantage was that, unlike modern cars, they could be fixed on the side
of the road easily if they stopped :)
And if we're going to play the "unlike you" game, then I would reply in saying that unlike you I have worked on *hundreds* cars over the years
as well as owning an unknown number of cars myself, and if you think
that the continual addition of electronic control for an ever increasing number of functions to modern cars has made them more reliable then you
are delusional in the extreme.
Cars are *incredibly* complex machines these days, and as a result of
that complexity they have a brittleness that has been unknown in
previous times. They're wonderful machines that are capable of things
that 40 years ago people could never have imagined, but they are
incredibly fragile as a result.
I cite the example of EFI as one that has VASTLY improved almost
every aspect of engine flexibility, performance, economy and
reliability.
Then you'd be citing it for the wrong reasons.
**Really? You're wrong, of course.
Yeah, well. Your limited personal experience is *not* the average.
EFI improved many things, such as fuel economy, power output and even
engine wear, but reliability was hit and miss. A *lot* of early EFI
cars had electrical gremlins up the whazoo, and some were quite
famous for it. VL Commodores with crank angle sensors were a famous
example.
**My VL never gave me a hint of issues. Brilliant car. Well, the
engine was excellent anyway.
And this is a perfect example of how your personal experience doesn't
tell you much. The Nissan RB30 engine as used in the VL Commodore was exceptionally well known for two distinct issues: Cylinder head
cracking, and ignition system failures.
the CAS failure rate was so high that just about every parts seller in
the country kept change over units in stock.
Things have not universally improved today. While economy and power**Nope. I've noted a continuous improvement in reliability of my cars
output continue to improve, reliability seems to be conversely affected. >>
over time. That said, I've never owned any Euro-shit. Perhaps they're
different.
As I mentioned, your personal experience is *not* the average. There are thousands of people who would happily disagree with you.
Cars are more fragile today than they ever have been in their
history, and the "electronics" side of things is the overwhelming
brittleness.
**Nonsense.
The only thing nonsensical about this is your lack of experience making
you completely oblivious of the reality.
My 8 year old Suby has enormous amounts of electronics. 23 CPUs
amongst those components. NOTHING has ever gone wrong with the Suby.
Except for my own stupidity. Now, Euro-shit is a different matter.
They probably don't do things as well as the Japs.
They probably don't, but your example of one does not an average make.
**Subaru is an average car maker. Not at the top, nor at the bottom
(price-wise).
And they've had their problems like everyone else.
There are *plenty* of cars out there today with electronic gremlins
Trev, and it's not just the Euros.
**Such as? And let's be real here: We're not talking about bad design.
We're talking about electronic failures in otherwise well designed cars.
Two things here. Firstly it's a bit late in the conversation to start qualifying your remarks, and secondly "well designed" is incredibly subjective :)
There are a number of reasons why cars fail today, and design is only a
part of it. The continual search for lower costs is a factor, as is inadequate testing along with the increasingly stringent emissions
standards vehicles are expected to meet today. Many vehicles today
suffer from issues that are the result of nothing more than components
not being as durable as they should be. EGR valves are a big problem
today.
having remarkably short lives.
for random failures on many vehicles.
be erratic.
These are just some of the everyday normalities. But then you have your "freak" issues, like electric power steering malfunctions which affected Toyota Corollas some years ago in the US that saw cars suddenly pull on
full right or left lock at freeway speeds, and drive by wire throttle systems that would stick fully open which also affected some Toyotas if
I recall.
*none* of these things were problems that affected older cars in the
main, and they are all side effects of the complexity of modern vehicles.
If you've had a trouble free motoring experience then congratulations,
but you have been exceptionally lucky if that's the case.
people have not, and I would suggest that if you want a genuine arms
length opinion on that then talk to your mechanic. I'm sure he'll tell
you the same thing I am :)
On 29/12/2025 7:20 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 29/12/2025 6:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
A week ago last Friday, the car fairy paid a visit, and, like all
good fairies, left a present - a RAV4.
**Nice. I've short-listed the RAV4 PHEV for a test drive. I hope it
meets with expectations and equals the equivalent Lexus (which I have
driven).
It has only done one journey beyond the local area, a 25Km trip to
our daughter's place for Xmas day, but the economy looks OK, usually
in the low 5s, sometimes in the upper 4s. It's quite a change from
the Mazda 3, apart from the driving position being significantly
higher, things have moved on in the 10 years since we bought the M3.
Yeah, economy is pretty good for a big car.
It's the first car that I've owned without a manual handbrake, I used
to use it any time I had to stop for more than a few second, and
disliked the electric ones. In this one though, although it is
electric, there is little reason to to touch it, it comes on
automatically in park, and there is a hold function for the times
when I'd have used the manual one for a short stop.
**Yep. Similar to my 8 year old Suby. Very convenient.
I haven't found anything yet to really dislike, although I'm not sure
about the adaptive cruise control, maybe I'll get used to it.
**You will. It can make driving very relaxing, if you use it right.
-a-aIt has a
"Digital" rear view mirror, you can switch it between a conventional
mirror and a screen connected to a camera on the tailgate. The
picture from the camera is excellent, and gives a wider view than the
mirror. The problem is that looking in a mirror, objects appear the
same distance behind the mirror as they are in front so your eyes
don't need to re-focus. The camera view, however, involves looking a
screen centimetres away, so it takes a finite time to re-focus when
you glance at it.
**Same as my Suby. I rarely use it, but when the back is fully loaded,
it works a treat. I love showing it to people who have never seen it.
Freaks 'em out.
The 360 view camera, is good when getting into a tight or awkward
parking spot, it comes on automatically in reverse, but, if you want
it while going forward, they put the switch in a really awkward spot
at the bottom of the dash.
**I don't get that in the Suby. Don't get that daft engine shut-off
either. I guess Subaru figured that a performance car doesn't need
that shit.
I assume you have RCA (Rear Crossing Alert) or similar. Utterly
brilliant. It should be mandatory on all cars.
Even the 10yo Mazda 3 had that.
One thing I don't like about Toyotas, is the implementation of the
auto braking. That said, maybe they've improved. Subaru does it much
better. Maybe it's because they use cameras.
I guess you don't have a spare tyre?
I wouldn't buy a car that didn't have one. All models of the RAV4 have
them, if you buy the poverty pack, you can pay extra for a full size
one, not sure why not with the other models.
On 29/12/2025 5:49 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 29/12/2025 8:19 pm, Daryl wrote:
On 29/12/2025 6:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
A week ago last Friday, the car fairy paid a visit, and, like all
good fairies, left a present - a RAV4.
It has only done one journey beyond the local area, a 25Km trip to
our daughter's place for Xmas day, but the economy looks OK, usually
in the low 5s, sometimes in the upper 4s. It's quite a change from
the Mazda 3, apart from the driving position being significantly
higher, things have moved on in the 10 years since we bought the M3.
Not necessarily for the better IMO, too much electronics to go wrong,
most of it is pretty reliable but can be a nightmare when it isn't.
**Bullshit. Electronics, in general, have improved car reliability
dramatically.
Absolute garbage. Most definitely not.
-aI cite the example of EFI as one that has VASTLY improved
almost every aspect of engine flexibility,
Yeah that was many decades ago now and did vastly improve reliability
but as time has gone on and countless modules and systems have been introduced for superfluous bullshit reliability has declined.
And that's not just electronics - cost reduction, emission control
systems, CRD and pushing engines to their limits etc have all
contributed to a decline in long term reliability.
On 1/01/2026 8:15 pm, Noddy wrote:
That's it right there. Carrying a spare wheel is fine, but the number
of people who (a) are prepared to use it, and (b) know how to if they
wanted to is rapidly diminishing by the day.
That's because they are a bunch of panseys. I hit a pothole hidden in a puddle in my VW Passat. It was obvious that the tyre was totally fucked
due to a chunk taken out of the sidewall. So, in the pouring rain, out
with the spare and tools. A yank cop stopped, (can't imagine a QLD cop
doing so) put a warning flare on the road and held the torch while I
changed the tyre. He remarked that it was the first time in years that
he had seen someone change their own tyre. I thought that it was just America, but apparently not.
I simply cannot tell you the number of older cars I've bought or
worked on where the spare wheel still has the original tyre fitted and
has never seen the road.
I've had 3 tyres and a wheel taken out by potholes in the last 25 years,
not frequent, but frequent enough.
On 1/1/2026 9:15 pm, Noddy wrote:
I've shown this pic before, but the Fairlane was the largest car Ford
Australia made back in the day.
https://ibb.co/V3RvwFx
Still makes me laugh :)
LOL, I wanted to buy that model Fairlane to tow a caravan but my wife wouldn't have it because it was too big and when it wasn't being used
for towing it would have been her daily driver.
On 1/1/2026 9:41 pm, keithr0 wrote:
On 1/01/2026 6:32 pm, Xeno wrote:
On 31/12/2025 5:07 pm, Daryl wrote:
On 31/12/2025 3:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
On 31/12/2025 12:31 pm, Xeno wrote:
On 31/12/2025 10:20 am, Daryl wrote:
<snippety doo dah>
You really don't have a clue, do you? It's all about understanding
Maybe mechanics figure they don't need to go back to Tech, they'll >>>>>> just learn from *experience*. Just like Darren did when he
*experienced* what would happen when he removed ~20 thou of piston >>>>>> to valve clearance on Les' engine. Hmm, that was a rather
expensive lesson, wasn't it? Not as expensive as the above parts
cannon exercise with the BEV but getting up there!
Just the usual crap that, for some strange reason, you find
necessary to include no matter the subject.
He can't help himself, he is wrong on all counts because it never
happened yet he keeping go over the same shit making a fool of
himself over and over again.
The people who couldn't find the fault were dealer trained and
following the manufactures fault finding procedures, the ones who
eventually found the fault were independents who worked it out
without specific training on that model, so much for dealing
"training".
electrical concepts hence the ability to conduct effective testing. I
have stated many times in the past - a lot of mechanics simply do not
understand *electricity* well enough to do basic testing much less
the testing of electronic or networking circuitry. Dealer training
has nothing to do with it. These chaps *understood* electrical
concepts and were able to translate that to an effective testing regime.
I.E. talent is more important than qualifications. Thanks for agreeing.
Hardly! Training is what is needed. From training and associated work experience comes certification.
AI Overview
Working on Battery Electric Vehicles (BEVs) in the U.S. requires
specialized training, certifications (like ASE EV certifications and
EVITP for electricians), and adherence to strict safety standards (like
NFPA 70E) due to high voltages (200-600V), demanding skills in
electrical systems, advanced software, robotics, and safe chemical
handling, often involving hands-on apprenticeships and focusing on
complex problem-solving.
Key Requirements & Skills:
Electrical Expertise: High-voltage systems (200-600V), power inverters, DC-DC converters, and battery management systems (BMS).
Safety Certifications: Mandatory training for "Qualified Electrical
Workers" under NFPA 70E, including Lockout/Tagout procedures and arc
flash prevention.
Technical Skills: Proficiency with computer systems, AI, robotics, data literacy, and complex diagnostic software.
Specialized Certifications: ASE's xEV certifications (Electrical Safety Awareness, Technician Electrical Safety) are becoming industry standards. Electrician Training: EVITP certification for installing and maintaining charging infrastructure.
Soft Skills: Complex problem-solving, precision, and strong attention to detail are crucial.
Training & Education Pathways:
Apprenticeships: "Earn-and-learn" opportunities through employer-based programs.
Formal Training: Programs integrating hands-on robotics, AI, and data literacy.
On-the-Job Training: Essential for practical skills development.
Want to work on BEVs in the US? You need training and *must have* certification else you don't get to first base. In order to work on
anything above ~60 Volts DC, you are required to have appropriate
electrical certification and you don't get that just because you're *talented*. Darren may have you convinced trade qualifications and certifications come in Weeties packets but that's not how the real world works hence there is no record anywhere of Darren's claimed achievements.
The concept of isolating a faulty component from the rest of its
circuitry is not new and not isolated to electrical.
Rare these days in electronics
I did mention *discrete circuitry*. If the board or circuit doesn't have
a lot of discrete components, as is common in electronics these days,
then the method is fraught.
It is common in electronics to test discrete components *out of
circuit* so that the circuitry does not provide any form of *loading*.
You obviously know little about fault finding electronics, it's rare
to have to do that, 90% of the time, the only reason that you take a
component out of circuit is because you have already determined that
it is faulty.
That is all the indies did, they disconnected *both* ends of the HV
Cable from the associated circuits and that *isolated the fault to
one of two wires which was then easy to test.
Test how?
IIRC, the tech used an *insulation tester*. Specialised areas,
specialised tools, specialised training. Not surprised you didn't notice that point in the video - a whoosh moment for you.
It is exactly what I would have done. Just need to have relevant test
equipment and know how to use it. That you need to be told this tells
me that your training in and understanding of electrical concepts is
also rather sparse.
ROTFL, Your knowledge of diagnosing electronics is about on the same
level as the 14yo who wants to be an auto sparky.
The most difficult part of diagnosing electronic faults is recreating
the problem, if it is there constantly, it's gift. Take it from
somebody who spent 40 years fixing electronics of all kinds.
The hero speaketh!
On 2/01/2026 12:14 pm, Daryl wrote:
On 1/1/2026 9:15 pm, Noddy wrote:
I've shown this pic before, but the Fairlane was the largest car Ford
Australia made back in the day.
https://ibb.co/V3RvwFx
Still makes me laugh :)
LOL, I wanted to buy that model Fairlane to tow a caravan but my wife
wouldn't have it because it was too big and when it wasn't being used
for towing it would have been her daily driver.
Looks like a pedal car today :)
On 2/01/2026 3:53 pm, Xeno wrote:
On 1/1/2026 9:41 pm, keithr0 wrote:The sound of running feet disappearing into the distance.
On 1/01/2026 6:32 pm, Xeno wrote:
On 31/12/2025 5:07 pm, Daryl wrote:
On 31/12/2025 3:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
On 31/12/2025 12:31 pm, Xeno wrote:
On 31/12/2025 10:20 am, Daryl wrote:
<snippety doo dah>
You really don't have a clue, do you? It's all about understanding
Maybe mechanics figure they don't need to go back to Tech,
they'll just learn from *experience*. Just like Darren did when >>>>>>> he *experienced* what would happen when he removed ~20 thou of
piston to valve clearance on Les' engine. Hmm, that was a rather >>>>>>> expensive lesson, wasn't it? Not as expensive as the above parts >>>>>>> cannon exercise with the BEV but getting up there!
Just the usual crap that, for some strange reason, you find
necessary to include no matter the subject.
He can't help himself, he is wrong on all counts because it never
happened yet he keeping go over the same shit making a fool of
himself over and over again.
The people who couldn't find the fault were dealer trained and
following the manufactures fault finding procedures, the ones who
eventually found the fault were independents who worked it out
without specific training on that model, so much for dealing
"training".
electrical concepts hence the ability to conduct effective testing.
I have stated many times in the past - a lot of mechanics simply do
not understand *electricity* well enough to do basic testing much
less the testing of electronic or networking circuitry. Dealer
training has nothing to do with it. These chaps *understood*
electrical concepts and were able to translate that to an effective
testing regime.
I.E. talent is more important than qualifications. Thanks for agreeing.
Hardly! Training is what is needed. From training and associated work
experience comes certification.
AI Overview
Working on Battery Electric Vehicles (BEVs) in the U.S. requires
specialized training, certifications (like ASE EV certifications and
EVITP for electricians), and adherence to strict safety standards
(like NFPA 70E) due to high voltages (200-600V), demanding skills in
electrical systems, advanced software, robotics, and safe chemical
handling, often involving hands-on apprenticeships and focusing on
complex problem-solving.
Key Requirements & Skills:
Electrical Expertise: High-voltage systems (200-600V), power
inverters, DC-DC converters, and battery management systems (BMS).
Safety Certifications: Mandatory training for "Qualified Electrical
Workers" under NFPA 70E, including Lockout/Tagout procedures and arc
flash prevention.
Technical Skills: Proficiency with computer systems, AI, robotics,
data literacy, and complex diagnostic software.
Specialized Certifications: ASE's xEV certifications (Electrical
Safety Awareness, Technician Electrical Safety) are becoming industry
standards.
Electrician Training: EVITP certification for installing and
maintaining charging infrastructure.
Soft Skills: Complex problem-solving, precision, and strong attention
to detail are crucial.
Training & Education Pathways:
Apprenticeships: "Earn-and-learn" opportunities through employer-based
programs.
Formal Training: Programs integrating hands-on robotics, AI, and data
literacy.
On-the-Job Training: Essential for practical skills development.
Want to work on BEVs in the US? You need training and *must have*
certification else you don't get to first base. In order to work on
anything above ~60 Volts DC, you are required to have appropriate
electrical certification and you don't get that just because you're
*talented*. Darren may have you convinced trade qualifications and
certifications come in Weeties packets but that's not how the real
world works hence there is no record anywhere of Darren's claimed
achievements.
The concept of isolating a faulty component from the rest of its
circuitry is not new and not isolated to electrical.
Rare these days in electronics
I did mention *discrete circuitry*. If the board or circuit doesn't
have a lot of discrete components, as is common in electronics these
days, then the method is fraught.
It is common in electronics to test discrete components *out ofYou obviously know little about fault finding electronics, it's rare
circuit* so that the circuitry does not provide any form of *loading*. >>>
to have to do that, 90% of the time, the only reason that you take a
component out of circuit is because you have already determined that
it is faulty.
That is all the indies did, they disconnected *both* ends of the HV
Cable from the associated circuits and that *isolated the fault to
one of two wires which was then easy to test.
Test how?
IIRC, the tech used an *insulation tester*. Specialised areas,
specialised tools, specialised training. Not surprised you didn't
notice that point in the video - a whoosh moment for you.
It is exactly what I would have done. Just need to have relevant
test equipment and know how to use it. That you need to be told this
tells me that your training in and understanding of electrical
concepts is also rather sparse.
ROTFL, Your knowledge of diagnosing electronics is about on the same
level as the 14yo who wants to be an auto sparky.
The most difficult part of diagnosing electronic faults is recreating
the problem, if it is there constantly, it's gift. Take it from
somebody who spent 40 years fixing electronics of all kinds.
The hero speaketh!
On 30/12/2025 3:19 pm, keithr0 wrote:
On 29/12/2025 7:20 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 29/12/2025 6:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
A week ago last Friday, the car fairy paid a visit, and, like all
good fairies, left a present - a RAV4.
**Nice. I've short-listed the RAV4 PHEV for a test drive. I hope it
meets with expectations and equals the equivalent Lexus (which I have
driven).
It has only done one journey beyond the local area, a 25Km trip to
our daughter's place for Xmas day, but the economy looks OK, usually
in the low 5s, sometimes in the upper 4s. It's quite a change from
the Mazda 3, apart from the driving position being significantly
higher, things have moved on in the 10 years since we bought the M3.
Yeah, economy is pretty good for a big car.
It's the first car that I've owned without a manual handbrake, I
used to use it any time I had to stop for more than a few second,
and disliked the electric ones. In this one though, although it is
electric, there is little reason to to touch it, it comes on
automatically in park, and there is a hold function for the times
when I'd have used the manual one for a short stop.
**Yep. Similar to my 8 year old Suby. Very convenient.
I haven't found anything yet to really dislike, although I'm not
sure about the adaptive cruise control, maybe I'll get used to it.
**You will. It can make driving very relaxing, if you use it right.
-a-aIt has a
"Digital" rear view mirror, you can switch it between a conventional
mirror and a screen connected to a camera on the tailgate. The
picture from the camera is excellent, and gives a wider view than
the mirror. The problem is that looking in a mirror, objects appear
the same distance behind the mirror as they are in front so your
eyes don't need to re-focus. The camera view, however, involves
looking a screen centimetres away, so it takes a finite time to re-
focus when you glance at it.
**Same as my Suby. I rarely use it, but when the back is fully
loaded, it works a treat. I love showing it to people who have never
seen it. Freaks 'em out.
The 360 view camera, is good when getting into a tight or awkward
parking spot, it comes on automatically in reverse, but, if you want
it while going forward, they put the switch in a really awkward spot
at the bottom of the dash.
**I don't get that in the Suby. Don't get that daft engine shut-off
either. I guess Subaru figured that a performance car doesn't need
that shit.
I assume you have RCA (Rear Crossing Alert) or similar. Utterly
brilliant. It should be mandatory on all cars.
Even the 10yo Mazda 3 had that.
One thing I don't like about Toyotas, is the implementation of the
auto braking. That said, maybe they've improved. Subaru does it much
better. Maybe it's because they use cameras.
I guess you don't have a spare tyre?
I wouldn't buy a car that didn't have one. All models of the RAV4 have
them, if you buy the poverty pack, you can pay extra for a full size
one, not sure why not with the other models.
**I am hopeful that the RAV4 PHEV carries a spare. No one seems to know right now.
keithr0 wrote:
On 1/01/2026 12:15 pm, alvey wrote:
keithr0 wrote:Nope.
I live about 500 metres from salt water, but neither my 30 odd year
old MX-5, or the 10 year old Mazda 3 showed any corrosion problems.
Oh btw Retcho.... Didn't you once say that you lived on the western
side of the Bruce?
Oh. So you *did* respond. My bad, this time.
Anyhoo... Speaking of that part of the Sunny... Was coming back from
Briz a couple of days ago and the Bruce was crawling. The Merk satnav
told me to take the Roys Rd turn off and come in through Aura. Turned
out to be a breeze, might even use it as the default as it avoids the spaghetti & crawl that is Caloundra Rd. The Merk maps lived down to expectations though, a couple of Km after the Roys Rd turn-off it had no streets at all in Aura. Turns out that you have to update the Merk maps yourself. Quality service from M-B there. (For the "enquiring minds"...
I normally use my phone as a route planner).
On 30/12/2025 10:46 am, Noddy wrote:
Not at all. I still own vehicles that have points ignition systems and
carburettors. They're generally not anywhere near as problematic as
you make them out to be,
**Yes, they are.
I've adjusted my fair share of points (and replaced
same) many, many times. I've never had to touch the timing on any modern
EFI car. Ever. A HUGE step forward in so many ways. Even my VH was a respectable step forward. And that was a very primitive implementation
of electronics in a car.
-aand in fact their biggest enemy was people who had
no idea what they were doing messing with them. Their overwhelming
advantage was that, unlike modern cars, they could be fixed on the
side of the road easily if they stopped :)
**That is a way overblown advantage, given the extreme reliability of
modern electrical ignition systems.
And if we're going to play the "unlike you" game, then I would reply
in saying that unlike you I have worked on *hundreds* cars over the
years as well as owning an unknown number of cars myself, and if you
think that the continual addition of electronic control for an ever
increasing number of functions to modern cars has made them more
reliable then you are delusional in the extreme.
**Here's my opinion on cars:
Out of 100 typical faults in cars, I bet you the following are
approximately factual:
90 will be mechanical faults.
8 will be electro-mechanical faults.
2 will be purely electronic faults.
I may just check with my mechanic to see how for out I am.
Cars are *incredibly* complex machines these days, and as a result of
that complexity they have a brittleness that has been unknown in
previous times. They're wonderful machines that are capable of things
that 40 years ago people could never have imagined, but they are
incredibly fragile as a result.
**Bollocks. Sure, if an electronic system fails, then you may be in a
world of pain. However, such systems are far more reliable than purely mechanical ones.
I cite the example of EFI as one that has VASTLY improved almost
every aspect of engine flexibility, performance, economy and
reliability.
Then you'd be citing it for the wrong reasons.
**Really? You're wrong, of course.
Yeah, well. Your limited personal experience is *not* the average.
**Yeah, it is.
**My VL never gave me a hint of issues. Brilliant car. Well, the
engine was excellent anyway.
And this is a perfect example of how your personal experience doesn't
tell you much. The Nissan RB30 engine as used in the VL Commodore was
exceptionally well known for two distinct issues: Cylinder head
cracking, and ignition system failures.
**You just proved my point. MECHANICAL systems are the problem. NOT electronic systems. For the record: The same engine in the Nissan
Skyline gave far fewer problems, thanks to superior cooling system
design in the Nissan.
the CAS failure rate was so high that just about every parts seller in
the country kept change over units in stock.
**Never had a problem with mine. I assume the CAS is a consumable? If
so, my mechanic would have replaced it at the suggested intervals.
Things have not universally improved today. While economy and power
output continue to improve, reliability seems to be conversely
affected.
**Nope. I've noted a continuous improvement in reliability of my cars
over time. That said, I've never owned any Euro-shit. Perhaps they're
different.
As I mentioned, your personal experience is *not* the average. There
are thousands of people who would happily disagree with you.
**And I would be happy to argue that electronic systems have made cars
far more reliable, economical and driveable.
The only thing nonsensical about this is your lack of experience
making you completely oblivious of the reality.
**That's just it: I DO have more than 50 years of car ownership
experience. I KNOW which parts of my cars have been troublesome. It has
not been the electronics.
There are *plenty* of cars out there today with electronic gremlins
Trev, and it's not just the Euros.
**Such as? And let's be real here: We're not talking about bad
design. We're talking about electronic failures in otherwise well
designed cars.
Two things here. Firstly it's a bit late in the conversation to start
qualifying your remarks, and secondly "well designed" is incredibly
subjective :)
There are a number of reasons why cars fail today, and design is only
a part of it. The continual search for lower costs is a factor, as is
inadequate testing along with the increasingly stringent emissions
standards vehicles are expected to meet today. Many vehicles today
suffer from issues that are the result of nothing more than components
not being as durable as they should be. EGR valves are a big problem
today.
**Mechanical systems. Thanks for proving my point.
-aOxygen sensors are a very common failure point.
**Consumable.
-aFuel injectors
having remarkably short lives.
**Electro-mechanical device. Again: It is MECHANICAL systems that cause
the vast majority of problems. Not the electronics.
-aCam and crank position sensors are famous
for random failures on many vehicles.
**Consumables. Hardly electronic devices.
-aVariable rate charging systems can
be erratic.
These are just some of the everyday normalities. But then you have
your "freak" issues, like electric power steering malfunctions which
affected Toyota Corollas some years ago in the US that saw cars
suddenly pull on full right or left lock at freeway speeds, and drive
by wire throttle systems that would stick fully open which also
affected some Toyotas if I recall.
**Sounds a lot like my old man's Valiant. A common fault on that model
(AP6, I think).
-aThey're far from isolated incidents, but the point being that
*none* of these things were problems that affected older cars in the
main, and they are all side effects of the complexity of modern vehicles.
**Wrong. Valiant AP6. Common fault.
-a*Thousands* of
people have not, and I would suggest that if you want a genuine arms
length opinion on that then talk to your mechanic. I'm sure he'll tell
you the same thing I am :)
**If I can catch him with 5 mins to spare, I will. He is busier than a
one legged man in an arse kicking contest.
On 30/12/2025 3:19 pm, keithr0 wrote:
On 29/12/2025 7:20 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 29/12/2025 6:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
A week ago last Friday, the car fairy paid a visit, and, like all
good fairies, left a present - a RAV4.
**Nice. I've short-listed the RAV4 PHEV for a test drive. I hope it
meets with expectations and equals the equivalent Lexus (which I have
driven).
It has only done one journey beyond the local area, a 25Km trip to
our daughter's place for Xmas day, but the economy looks OK, usually
in the low 5s, sometimes in the upper 4s. It's quite a change from
the Mazda 3, apart from the driving position being significantly
higher, things have moved on in the 10 years since we bought the M3.
Yeah, economy is pretty good for a big car.
It's the first car that I've owned without a manual handbrake, I
used to use it any time I had to stop for more than a few second,
and disliked the electric ones. In this one though, although it is
electric, there is little reason to to touch it, it comes on
automatically in park, and there is a hold function for the times
when I'd have used the manual one for a short stop.
**Yep. Similar to my 8 year old Suby. Very convenient.
I haven't found anything yet to really dislike, although I'm not
sure about the adaptive cruise control, maybe I'll get used to it.
**You will. It can make driving very relaxing, if you use it right.
-a-aIt has a
"Digital" rear view mirror, you can switch it between a conventional
mirror and a screen connected to a camera on the tailgate. The
picture from the camera is excellent, and gives a wider view than
the mirror. The problem is that looking in a mirror, objects appear
the same distance behind the mirror as they are in front so your
eyes don't need to re-focus. The camera view, however, involves
looking a screen centimetres away, so it takes a finite time to re-
focus when you glance at it.
**Same as my Suby. I rarely use it, but when the back is fully
loaded, it works a treat. I love showing it to people who have never
seen it. Freaks 'em out.
The 360 view camera, is good when getting into a tight or awkward
parking spot, it comes on automatically in reverse, but, if you want
it while going forward, they put the switch in a really awkward spot
at the bottom of the dash.
**I don't get that in the Suby. Don't get that daft engine shut-off
either. I guess Subaru figured that a performance car doesn't need
that shit.
I assume you have RCA (Rear Crossing Alert) or similar. Utterly
brilliant. It should be mandatory on all cars.
Even the 10yo Mazda 3 had that.
One thing I don't like about Toyotas, is the implementation of the
auto braking. That said, maybe they've improved. Subaru does it much
better. Maybe it's because they use cameras.
I guess you don't have a spare tyre?
I wouldn't buy a car that didn't have one. All models of the RAV4 have
them, if you buy the poverty pack, you can pay extra for a full size
one, not sure why not with the other models.
**I am hopeful that the RAV4 PHEV carries a spare. No one seems to know right now.
On 30/12/2025 9:55 am, Clocky wrote:
And that's not just electronics - cost reduction, emission control
systems, CRD and pushing engines to their limits etc have all
contributed to a decline in long term reliability.
**Bullshit. My FC Holden was pretty much buggered at around 100,000
miles. My first Escort (1.3L) was headed for a major engine rebuild at around 100,000km. My second Escort (1.6L pushrod) was a dud from day
one, but it was headed for the scrapyard at around 100,000km. My first
2L SOHC Escort was a bit special. It actually lasted quite well, whilst proving me with huge enjoyment. Even at 100,000km, it was happily
revving past 7,000RPM.
Until it was written off by an idiot running a
red. My last Escort (2L) was a disappointment, but it lasted past
150,000km. I actually managed to sell it. Then my VH Commodore came
along. It lasted 175,000km before a complete engine swap (big mistake - Higginbottom disaster). That engine lasted another 100,000km, before it died. After that, my VL. Never gave me a minute's problems. Sold with 220,000km up. Then came my VP Commodore. Bits would fall off it and the paint was, well, barely paint, but it was generally quite reliable,
until a tree branch (weighing an estimated 3 Tonnes) killed it at around 250,000km. Then I drove my partner's Ford Telstar. We sold it at
245,000km. It was running fine. I just couldn't get the air-con fixed.
Then my Nissan Stagea. I sold it at 245,000kms. I regularly receive
texts from the purchaser, who is clocking up big kms in it. He loves it.
As did I. It was a quite sophisticated car, electronically. Drive by
wire, reversing camera, GPS, auto folding and tilting mirrors, etc, etc.
All I can say is that cars are getting more reliable with each purchase.
My Subaru Levorg has not given me a millisecond's trouble in 7 years. Of course, I've been using the same mechanic, or the guy who trained under
that mechanic for many years. I trust him/them to ensure that my cars
are reliable.
In fact, when I purchased the VL, he swapped out the
radiator cap on day one for a Toyota(?!) unit.
However, some people have a natural ability to think outside of the
square or have a greater interest in a particular field that is
advantageous -
that is true and that can be helpful.
My understanding of electronics and electrics as well as experience has certainly benefited
me over the years, certainly financially.
On 2/01/2026 7:52 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 30/12/2025 10:46 am, Noddy wrote:
Not at all. I still own vehicles that have points ignition systems
and carburettors. They're generally not anywhere near as problematic
as you make them out to be,
**Yes, they are.
No Trevor, they are not.
I've adjusted my fair share of points (and replaced same) many, many
times. I've never had to touch the timing on any modern EFI car. Ever.
A HUGE step forward in so many ways. Even my VH was a respectable step
forward. And that was a very primitive implementation of electronics
in a car.
So what?
Changing contact points was a once a year service procedure that for the average car cost around 10 bucks for the points and took all of half an
hour to do, including running the timing light over the engine and
adjusting the distributor.
It was a simple process, so simple even you could do it, and the only
reason unreliability was part of the equation was when people who
*didn't* know what they were doing fucked it up.
-a-aand in fact their biggest enemy was people who had
no idea what they were doing messing with them. Their overwhelming
advantage was that, unlike modern cars, they could be fixed on the
side of the road easily if they stopped :)
**That is a way overblown advantage, given the extreme reliability of
modern electrical ignition systems.
Lol :)
The number of electronic ignition equipped cars that stopped suddenly
and were left stranded on the side of the road *far* exceeded the "unreliability" associated with points ignition systems. This was
especially so in the 1980's when manufacturers used horrible ignition modules that proved to suffer from extreme heat and vibration failures.
And if we're going to play the "unlike you" game, then I would reply
in saying that unlike you I have worked on *hundreds* cars over the
years as well as owning an unknown number of cars myself, and if you
think that the continual addition of electronic control for an ever
increasing number of functions to modern cars has made them more
reliable then you are delusional in the extreme.
**Here's my opinion on cars:
Out of 100 typical faults in cars, I bet you the following are
approximately factual:
90 will be mechanical faults.
8 will be electro-mechanical faults.
2 will be purely electronic faults.
I may just check with my mechanic to see how for out I am.
Please, do so, but don't be upset when you discover that you're about as wrong as you could possibly be :)
In my experience, the overwhelming number of faults are either electro mechanical or purely electronic. Mechanical faults are definitely in the minority, and by a very long way.
Cars are *incredibly* complex machines these days, and as a result of
that complexity they have a brittleness that has been unknown in
previous times. They're wonderful machines that are capable of things
that 40 years ago people could never have imagined, but they are
incredibly fragile as a result.
**Bollocks. Sure, if an electronic system fails, then you may be in a
world of pain. However, such systems are far more reliable than purely
mechanical ones.
What purely mechanical ones are you talking about?
I cite the example of EFI as one that has VASTLY improved almost
every aspect of engine flexibility, performance, economy and
reliability.
Then you'd be citing it for the wrong reasons.
**Really? You're wrong, of course.
Yeah, well. Your limited personal experience is *not* the average.
**Yeah, it is.
You're delusional :)
**My VL never gave me a hint of issues. Brilliant car. Well, the
engine was excellent anyway.
And this is a perfect example of how your personal experience doesn't
tell you much. The Nissan RB30 engine as used in the VL Commodore was
exceptionally well known for two distinct issues: Cylinder head
cracking, and ignition system failures.
**You just proved my point. MECHANICAL systems are the problem. NOT
electronic systems. For the record: The same engine in the Nissan
Skyline gave far fewer problems, thanks to superior cooling system
design in the Nissan.
Hate to break it to you. but the ignition system failures for which both
the VL Commodore *and* the Skyline were *not* mechanical issues.
the CAS failure rate was so high that just about every parts seller
in the country kept change over units in stock.
**Never had a problem with mine. I assume the CAS is a consumable? If
so, my mechanic would have replaced it at the suggested intervals.
No, it isn't. Crank angle sensors are not a consumable, they are an
ignition system component that gets replaced if and when they fail, and
on the VL Commy and Skyline they failed with *alarming* regularity.
I have no idea how long you owned your VL Commodore for, but if you
managed to avoid either the CAS failing or the head cracking then you
were *extremely* lucky.
Things have not universally improved today. While economy and power >>>>> output continue to improve, reliability seems to be conversely
affected.
**Nope. I've noted a continuous improvement in reliability of my
cars over time. That said, I've never owned any Euro-shit. Perhaps
they're different.
As I mentioned, your personal experience is *not* the average. There
are thousands of people who would happily disagree with you.
**And I would be happy to argue that electronic systems have made cars
far more reliable, economical and driveable.
And you'd be wrong. Cars these days are not more reliable. They are, however, more economical and have more features.
The only thing nonsensical about this is your lack of experience
making you completely oblivious of the reality.
**That's just it: I DO have more than 50 years of car ownership
experience. I KNOW which parts of my cars have been troublesome. It
has not been the electronics.
And *again* you fail to grasp that your personal experience is *not* the average. That you had a trouble free run out of a VL Commodore is a
prime example of that.
Thousands of people did not.
There are *plenty* of cars out there today with electronic gremlins >>>>> Trev, and it's not just the Euros.
**Such as? And let's be real here: We're not talking about bad
design. We're talking about electronic failures in otherwise well
designed cars.
Two things here. Firstly it's a bit late in the conversation to start
qualifying your remarks, and secondly "well designed" is incredibly
subjective :)
There are a number of reasons why cars fail today, and design is only
a part of it. The continual search for lower costs is a factor, as is
inadequate testing along with the increasingly stringent emissions
standards vehicles are expected to meet today. Many vehicles today
suffer from issues that are the result of nothing more than
components not being as durable as they should be. EGR valves are a
big problem today.
**Mechanical systems. Thanks for proving my point.
The failure point on most EGR valves is the electric actuator :)
-a-aOxygen sensors are a very common failure point.
**Consumable.
Oxygen sensors are *not* a consumable. They have no fixed replacement interval. They are changed when they fail, and they fail often.
-a-aFuel injectors
having remarkably short lives.
**Electro-mechanical device. Again: It is MECHANICAL systems that
cause the vast majority of problems. Not the electronics.
-a-aCam and crank position sensors are famous
for random failures on many vehicles.
**Consumables. Hardly electronic devices.
You have no idea, do you? They *are* electronic devices, and they are
*not* "consumables" :)
-a-aVariable rate charging systems can
be erratic.
These are just some of the everyday normalities. But then you have
your "freak" issues, like electric power steering malfunctions which
affected Toyota Corollas some years ago in the US that saw cars
suddenly pull on full right or left lock at freeway speeds, and drive
by wire throttle systems that would stick fully open which also
affected some Toyotas if I recall.
**Sounds a lot like my old man's Valiant. A common fault on that model
(AP6, I think).
-a-aThey're far from isolated incidents, but the point being that
*none* of these things were problems that affected older cars in the
main, and they are all side effects of the complexity of modern
vehicles.
**Wrong. Valiant AP6. Common fault.
An AP6 Valiant didn't have a fly by wire throttle that randomly decided
to deck itself to the floor and stay there until the driver shut the
engine off.
-a-a*Thousands* of
people have not, and I would suggest that if you want a genuine arms
length opinion on that then talk to your mechanic. I'm sure he'll
tell you the same thing I am :)
**If I can catch him with 5 mins to spare, I will. He is busier than a
one legged man in an arse kicking contest.
I genuinely suggest you do have a chat to him and get his perspective, because as far as I can tell you have an extreme case of tunnel vision
where you think everyone else's experiences have been exactly the same
as yours.
You'll be surprised to hear what he has to say.
On 2/01/2026 8:16 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 30/12/2025 9:55 am, Clocky wrote:
And that's not just electronics - cost reduction, emission control
systems, CRD and pushing engines to their limits etc have all
contributed to a decline in long term reliability.
**Bullshit. My FC Holden was pretty much buggered at around 100,000
miles. My first Escort (1.3L) was headed for a major engine rebuild at
around 100,000km. My second Escort (1.6L pushrod) was a dud from day
one, but it was headed for the scrapyard at around 100,000km. My first
2L SOHC Escort was a bit special. It actually lasted quite well,
whilst proving me with huge enjoyment. Even at 100,000km, it was
happily revving past 7,000RPM.
You understand that there is no fixed mileage limit where cars are
expected to reach the end of their lives, right?
Until it was written off by an idiot running a red. My last Escort
(2L) was a disappointment, but it lasted past 150,000km. I actually
managed to sell it. Then my VH Commodore came along. It lasted
175,000km before a complete engine swap (big mistake - Higginbottom
disaster). That engine lasted another 100,000km, before it died. After
that, my VL. Never gave me a minute's problems. Sold with 220,000km
up. Then came my VP Commodore. Bits would fall off it and the paint
was, well, barely paint, but it was generally quite reliable, until a
tree branch (weighing an estimated 3 Tonnes) killed it at around
250,000km. Then I drove my partner's Ford Telstar. We sold it at
245,000km. It was running fine. I just couldn't get the air-con fixed.
Far canal! A Telstar :)
Are you sure you're from this planet originally? I ask because you would
be the only person on Earth who had a VL Commy and a Telstar that gave
you no problems.
Either that or your taking the piss. If your next "trouble free car" was
a Marina, the cat will be out of the bag :)
Then my Nissan Stagea. I sold it at 245,000kms. I regularly receive
texts from the purchaser, who is clocking up big kms in it. He loves
it. As did I. It was a quite sophisticated car, electronically. Drive
by wire, reversing camera, GPS, auto folding and tilting mirrors, etc,
etc.
There was nothing special about it Trev.
All I can say is that cars are getting more reliable with each purchase.
For *you* they seem to be, but then it sounds like you started off in shitsville and could only go up from there.
My Subaru Levorg has not given me a millisecond's trouble in 7 years.
Of course, I've been using the same mechanic, or the guy who trained
under that mechanic for many years. I trust him/them to ensure that my
cars are reliable.
Then you are placing an obligation on them that they are incapable of meeting.
No criticism of them and I'm sure they're fine people, but *no* mechanic
can ensure a car is reliable, as that is a condition that is beyond
their control. All they *can* do is ensure that the vehicle is
maintained correctly, and serviced & adjusted according to the manufacturer's recommendations. Beyond that, the reliability is up to
the manufacturer, and the price point the vehicle was built to meet.
In fact, when I purchased the VL, he swapped out the radiator cap on
day one for a Toyota(?!) unit.
Unless the cap was faulty there is no advantage to doing so. The cap
itself wasn't the problem on VL Commodores. It not being the highest
point in the cooling system was.
On 2/1/2026 7:54 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 30/12/2025 3:19 pm, keithr0 wrote:If it is AWD, likely no spare. 2WD should have a space saver. The issue
On 29/12/2025 7:20 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 29/12/2025 6:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
A week ago last Friday, the car fairy paid a visit, and, like all
good fairies, left a present - a RAV4.
**Nice. I've short-listed the RAV4 PHEV for a test drive. I hope it
meets with expectations and equals the equivalent Lexus (which I
have driven).
It has only done one journey beyond the local area, a 25Km trip to
our daughter's place for Xmas day, but the economy looks OK,
usually in the low 5s, sometimes in the upper 4s. It's quite a
change from the Mazda 3, apart from the driving position being
significantly higher, things have moved on in the 10 years since we >>>>> bought the M3.
Yeah, economy is pretty good for a big car.
It's the first car that I've owned without a manual handbrake, I
used to use it any time I had to stop for more than a few second,
and disliked the electric ones. In this one though, although it is
electric, there is little reason to to touch it, it comes on
automatically in park, and there is a hold function for the times
when I'd have used the manual one for a short stop.
**Yep. Similar to my 8 year old Suby. Very convenient.
I haven't found anything yet to really dislike, although I'm not
sure about the adaptive cruise control, maybe I'll get used to it.
**You will. It can make driving very relaxing, if you use it right.
-a-aIt has a
"Digital" rear view mirror, you can switch it between a
conventional mirror and a screen connected to a camera on the
tailgate. The picture from the camera is excellent, and gives a
wider view than the mirror. The problem is that looking in a
mirror, objects appear the same distance behind the mirror as they
are in front so your eyes don't need to re-focus. The camera view,
however, involves looking a screen centimetres away, so it takes a
finite time to re- focus when you glance at it.
**Same as my Suby. I rarely use it, but when the back is fully
loaded, it works a treat. I love showing it to people who have never
seen it. Freaks 'em out.
The 360 view camera, is good when getting into a tight or awkward
parking spot, it comes on automatically in reverse, but, if you
want it while going forward, they put the switch in a really
awkward spot at the bottom of the dash.
**I don't get that in the Suby. Don't get that daft engine shut-off
either. I guess Subaru figured that a performance car doesn't need
that shit.
I assume you have RCA (Rear Crossing Alert) or similar. Utterly
brilliant. It should be mandatory on all cars.
Even the 10yo Mazda 3 had that.
One thing I don't like about Toyotas, is the implementation of the
auto braking. That said, maybe they've improved. Subaru does it much
better. Maybe it's because they use cameras.
I guess you don't have a spare tyre?
I wouldn't buy a car that didn't have one. All models of the RAV4
have them, if you buy the poverty pack, you can pay extra for a full
size one, not sure why not with the other models.
**I am hopeful that the RAV4 PHEV carries a spare. No one seems to
know right now.
is with the location of the rear drive motor and the number of extra batteries.
On 2/1/2026 9:08 pm, keithr0 wrote:
On 2/01/2026 3:53 pm, Xeno wrote:
On 1/1/2026 9:41 pm, keithr0 wrote:The sound of running feet disappearing into the distance.
On 1/01/2026 6:32 pm, Xeno wrote:
On 31/12/2025 5:07 pm, Daryl wrote:
On 31/12/2025 3:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
On 31/12/2025 12:31 pm, Xeno wrote:
On 31/12/2025 10:20 am, Daryl wrote:
<snippety doo dah>
Hardly! Training is what is needed. From training and associated workYou really don't have a clue, do you? It's all about understanding
Maybe mechanics figure they don't need to go back to Tech,
they'll just learn from *experience*. Just like Darren did when >>>>>>>> he *experienced* what would happen when he removed ~20 thou of >>>>>>>> piston to valve clearance on Les' engine. Hmm, that was a rather >>>>>>>> expensive lesson, wasn't it? Not as expensive as the above parts >>>>>>>> cannon exercise with the BEV but getting up there!
Just the usual crap that, for some strange reason, you find
necessary to include no matter the subject.
He can't help himself, he is wrong on all counts because it never >>>>>> happened yet he keeping go over the same shit making a fool of
himself over and over again.
The people who couldn't find the fault were dealer trained and
following the manufactures fault finding procedures, the ones who >>>>>> eventually found the fault were independents who worked it out
without specific training on that model, so much for dealing
"training".
electrical concepts hence the ability to conduct effective testing. >>>>> I have stated many times in the past - a lot of mechanics simply do >>>>> not understand *electricity* well enough to do basic testing much
less the testing of electronic or networking circuitry. Dealer
training has nothing to do with it. These chaps *understood*
electrical concepts and were able to translate that to an effective >>>>> testing regime.
I.E. talent is more important than qualifications. Thanks for agreeing. >>>
experience comes certification.
AI Overview
Working on Battery Electric Vehicles (BEVs) in the U.S. requires
specialized training, certifications (like ASE EV certifications and
EVITP for electricians), and adherence to strict safety standards
(like NFPA 70E) due to high voltages (200-600V), demanding skills in
electrical systems, advanced software, robotics, and safe chemical
handling, often involving hands-on apprenticeships and focusing on
complex problem-solving.
Key Requirements & Skills:
Electrical Expertise: High-voltage systems (200-600V), power
inverters, DC-DC converters, and battery management systems (BMS).
Safety Certifications: Mandatory training for "Qualified Electrical
Workers" under NFPA 70E, including Lockout/Tagout procedures and arc
flash prevention.
Technical Skills: Proficiency with computer systems, AI, robotics,
data literacy, and complex diagnostic software.
Specialized Certifications: ASE's xEV certifications (Electrical
Safety Awareness, Technician Electrical Safety) are becoming industry
standards.
Electrician Training: EVITP certification for installing and
maintaining charging infrastructure.
Soft Skills: Complex problem-solving, precision, and strong attention
to detail are crucial.
Training & Education Pathways:
Apprenticeships: "Earn-and-learn" opportunities through employer-
based programs.
Formal Training: Programs integrating hands-on robotics, AI, and data
literacy.
On-the-Job Training: Essential for practical skills development.
Want to work on BEVs in the US? You need training and *must have*
certification else you don't get to first base. In order to work on
anything above ~60 Volts DC, you are required to have appropriate
electrical certification and you don't get that just because you're
*talented*. Darren may have you convinced trade qualifications and
certifications come in Weeties packets but that's not how the real
world works hence there is no record anywhere of Darren's claimed
achievements.
The concept of isolating a faulty component from the rest of its
circuitry is not new and not isolated to electrical.
Rare these days in electronics
I did mention *discrete circuitry*. If the board or circuit doesn't
have a lot of discrete components, as is common in electronics these
days, then the method is fraught.
It is common in electronics to test discrete components *out ofYou obviously know little about fault finding electronics, it's rare
circuit* so that the circuitry does not provide any form of *loading*. >>>>
to have to do that, 90% of the time, the only reason that you take a
component out of circuit is because you have already determined that
it is faulty.
That is all the indies did, they disconnected *both* ends of the HV >>>>> Cable from the associated circuits and that *isolated the fault to
one of two wires which was then easy to test.
Test how?
IIRC, the tech used an *insulation tester*. Specialised areas,
specialised tools, specialised training. Not surprised you didn't
notice that point in the video - a whoosh moment for you.
It is exactly what I would have done. Just need to have relevant
test equipment and know how to use it. That you need to be told
this tells me that your training in and understanding of electrical >>>>> concepts is also rather sparse.
ROTFL, Your knowledge of diagnosing electronics is about on the same
level as the 14yo who wants to be an auto sparky.
The most difficult part of diagnosing electronic faults is
recreating the problem, if it is there constantly, it's gift. Take
it from somebody who spent 40 years fixing electronics of all kinds.
The hero speaketh!
Yeah, yours!
On 2/01/2026 8:18 pm, Xeno wrote:
On 2/1/2026 7:54 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:Interesting, my RAV is an AWD, and there appears to be a spare right
On 30/12/2025 3:19 pm, keithr0 wrote:If it is AWD, likely no spare. 2WD should have a space saver. The
On 29/12/2025 7:20 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 29/12/2025 6:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
A week ago last Friday, the car fairy paid a visit, and, like all >>>>>> good fairies, left a present - a RAV4.
**Nice. I've short-listed the RAV4 PHEV for a test drive. I hope it >>>>> meets with expectations and equals the equivalent Lexus (which I
have driven).
It has only done one journey beyond the local area, a 25Km trip to >>>>>> our daughter's place for Xmas day, but the economy looks OK,
usually in the low 5s, sometimes in the upper 4s. It's quite a
change from the Mazda 3, apart from the driving position being
significantly higher, things have moved on in the 10 years since
we bought the M3.
Yeah, economy is pretty good for a big car.
It's the first car that I've owned without a manual handbrake, I
used to use it any time I had to stop for more than a few second, >>>>>> and disliked the electric ones. In this one though, although it is >>>>>> electric, there is little reason to to touch it, it comes on
automatically in park, and there is a hold function for the times >>>>>> when I'd have used the manual one for a short stop.
**Yep. Similar to my 8 year old Suby. Very convenient.
I haven't found anything yet to really dislike, although I'm not
sure about the adaptive cruise control, maybe I'll get used to it.
**You will. It can make driving very relaxing, if you use it right.
-a-aIt has a
"Digital" rear view mirror, you can switch it between a
conventional mirror and a screen connected to a camera on the
tailgate. The picture from the camera is excellent, and gives a
wider view than the mirror. The problem is that looking in a
mirror, objects appear the same distance behind the mirror as they >>>>>> are in front so your eyes don't need to re-focus. The camera view, >>>>>> however, involves looking a screen centimetres away, so it takes a >>>>>> finite time to re- focus when you glance at it.
**Same as my Suby. I rarely use it, but when the back is fully
loaded, it works a treat. I love showing it to people who have
never seen it. Freaks 'em out.
The 360 view camera, is good when getting into a tight or awkward >>>>>> parking spot, it comes on automatically in reverse, but, if you
want it while going forward, they put the switch in a really
awkward spot at the bottom of the dash.
**I don't get that in the Suby. Don't get that daft engine shut-off >>>>> either. I guess Subaru figured that a performance car doesn't need
that shit.
I assume you have RCA (Rear Crossing Alert) or similar. Utterly
brilliant. It should be mandatory on all cars.
Even the 10yo Mazda 3 had that.
One thing I don't like about Toyotas, is the implementation of the
auto braking. That said, maybe they've improved. Subaru does it
much better. Maybe it's because they use cameras.
I guess you don't have a spare tyre?
I wouldn't buy a car that didn't have one. All models of the RAV4
have them, if you buy the poverty pack, you can pay extra for a full
size one, not sure why not with the other models.
**I am hopeful that the RAV4 PHEV carries a spare. No one seems to
know right now.
issue is with the location of the rear drive motor and the number of
extra batteries.
there under the boot. I can take a picture of it if you like.
On 2/01/2026 8:17 pm, Xeno wrote:
On 2/1/2026 9:08 pm, keithr0 wrote:That is 100dB down on pathetic.
On 2/01/2026 3:53 pm, Xeno wrote:
On 1/1/2026 9:41 pm, keithr0 wrote:The sound of running feet disappearing into the distance.
On 1/01/2026 6:32 pm, Xeno wrote:
On 31/12/2025 5:07 pm, Daryl wrote:
On 31/12/2025 3:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
On 31/12/2025 12:31 pm, Xeno wrote:
On 31/12/2025 10:20 am, Daryl wrote:
<snippety doo dah>
You really don't have a clue, do you? It's all about understanding >>>>>> electrical concepts hence the ability to conduct effective
Maybe mechanics figure they don't need to go back to Tech,Just the usual crap that, for some strange reason, you find
they'll just learn from *experience*. Just like Darren did when >>>>>>>>> he *experienced* what would happen when he removed ~20 thou of >>>>>>>>> piston to valve clearance on Les' engine. Hmm, that was a
rather expensive lesson, wasn't it? Not as expensive as the >>>>>>>>> above parts cannon exercise with the BEV but getting up there! >>>>>>>>
necessary to include no matter the subject.
He can't help himself, he is wrong on all counts because it never >>>>>>> happened yet he keeping go over the same shit making a fool of
himself over and over again.
The people who couldn't find the fault were dealer trained and
following the manufactures fault finding procedures, the ones who >>>>>>> eventually found the fault were independents who worked it out
without specific training on that model, so much for dealing
"training".
testing. I have stated many times in the past - a lot of mechanics >>>>>> simply do not understand *electricity* well enough to do basic
testing much less the testing of electronic or networking
circuitry. Dealer training has nothing to do with it. These chaps >>>>>> *understood* electrical concepts and were able to translate that
to an effective testing regime.
I.E. talent is more important than qualifications. Thanks for
agreeing.
Hardly! Training is what is needed. From training and associated
work experience comes certification.
AI Overview
Working on Battery Electric Vehicles (BEVs) in the U.S. requires
specialized training, certifications (like ASE EV certifications and
EVITP for electricians), and adherence to strict safety standards
(like NFPA 70E) due to high voltages (200-600V), demanding skills in
electrical systems, advanced software, robotics, and safe chemical
handling, often involving hands-on apprenticeships and focusing on
complex problem-solving.
Key Requirements & Skills:
Electrical Expertise: High-voltage systems (200-600V), power
inverters, DC-DC converters, and battery management systems (BMS).
Safety Certifications: Mandatory training for "Qualified Electrical
Workers" under NFPA 70E, including Lockout/Tagout procedures and arc
flash prevention.
Technical Skills: Proficiency with computer systems, AI, robotics,
data literacy, and complex diagnostic software.
Specialized Certifications: ASE's xEV certifications (Electrical
Safety Awareness, Technician Electrical Safety) are becoming
industry standards.
Electrician Training: EVITP certification for installing and
maintaining charging infrastructure.
Soft Skills: Complex problem-solving, precision, and strong
attention to detail are crucial.
Training & Education Pathways:
Apprenticeships: "Earn-and-learn" opportunities through employer-
based programs.
Formal Training: Programs integrating hands-on robotics, AI, and
data literacy.
On-the-Job Training: Essential for practical skills development.
Want to work on BEVs in the US? You need training and *must have*
certification else you don't get to first base. In order to work on
anything above ~60 Volts DC, you are required to have appropriate
electrical certification and you don't get that just because you're
*talented*. Darren may have you convinced trade qualifications and
certifications come in Weeties packets but that's not how the real
world works hence there is no record anywhere of Darren's claimed
achievements.
The concept of isolating a faulty component from the rest of its
circuitry is not new and not isolated to electrical.
Rare these days in electronics
I did mention *discrete circuitry*. If the board or circuit doesn't
have a lot of discrete components, as is common in electronics these
days, then the method is fraught.
It is common in electronics to test discrete components *out of
circuit* so that the circuitry does not provide any form of
*loading*.
You obviously know little about fault finding electronics, it's
rare to have to do that, 90% of the time, the only reason that you
take a component out of circuit is because you have already
determined that it is faulty.
That is all the indies did, they disconnected *both* ends of the
HV Cable from the associated circuits and that *isolated the fault >>>>>> to one of two wires which was then easy to test.
Test how?
IIRC, the tech used an *insulation tester*. Specialised areas,
specialised tools, specialised training. Not surprised you didn't
notice that point in the video - a whoosh moment for you.
It is exactly what I would have done. Just need to have relevant
test equipment and know how to use it. That you need to be told
this tells me that your training in and understanding of
electrical concepts is also rather sparse.
ROTFL, Your knowledge of diagnosing electronics is about on the
same level as the 14yo who wants to be an auto sparky.
The most difficult part of diagnosing electronic faults is
recreating the problem, if it is there constantly, it's gift. Take
it from somebody who spent 40 years fixing electronics of all kinds.
The hero speaketh!
Yeah, yours!
On 2/1/2026 10:55 pm, keithr0 wrote:
On 2/01/2026 8:17 pm, Xeno wrote:
On 2/1/2026 9:08 pm, keithr0 wrote:That is 100dB down on pathetic.
On 2/01/2026 3:53 pm, Xeno wrote:
On 1/1/2026 9:41 pm, keithr0 wrote:The sound of running feet disappearing into the distance.
On 1/01/2026 6:32 pm, Xeno wrote:
On 31/12/2025 5:07 pm, Daryl wrote:
On 31/12/2025 3:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
On 31/12/2025 12:31 pm, Xeno wrote:
On 31/12/2025 10:20 am, Daryl wrote:
<snippety doo dah>
You really don't have a clue, do you? It's all about
Maybe mechanics figure they don't need to go back to Tech, >>>>>>>>>> they'll just learn from *experience*. Just like Darren did >>>>>>>>>> when he *experienced* what would happen when he removed ~20 >>>>>>>>>> thou of piston to valve clearance on Les' engine. Hmm, that >>>>>>>>>> was a rather expensive lesson, wasn't it? Not as expensive as >>>>>>>>>> the above parts cannon exercise with the BEV but getting up >>>>>>>>>> there!
Just the usual crap that, for some strange reason, you find >>>>>>>>> necessary to include no matter the subject.
He can't help himself, he is wrong on all counts because it
never happened yet he keeping go over the same shit making a
fool of himself over and over again.
The people who couldn't find the fault were dealer trained and >>>>>>>> following the manufactures fault finding procedures, the ones >>>>>>>> who eventually found the fault were independents who worked it >>>>>>>> out without specific training on that model, so much for dealing >>>>>>>> "training".
understanding electrical concepts hence the ability to conduct
effective testing. I have stated many times in the past - a lot >>>>>>> of mechanics simply do not understand *electricity* well enough >>>>>>> to do basic testing much less the testing of electronic or
networking circuitry. Dealer training has nothing to do with it. >>>>>>> These chaps *understood* electrical concepts and were able to
translate that to an effective testing regime.
I.E. talent is more important than qualifications. Thanks for
agreeing.
Hardly! Training is what is needed. From training and associated
work experience comes certification.
AI Overview
Working on Battery Electric Vehicles (BEVs) in the U.S. requires
specialized training, certifications (like ASE EV certifications
and EVITP for electricians), and adherence to strict safety
standards (like NFPA 70E) due to high voltages (200-600V),
demanding skills in electrical systems, advanced software,
robotics, and safe chemical handling, often involving hands-on
apprenticeships and focusing on complex problem-solving.
Key Requirements & Skills:
Electrical Expertise: High-voltage systems (200-600V), power
inverters, DC-DC converters, and battery management systems (BMS).
Safety Certifications: Mandatory training for "Qualified Electrical >>>>> Workers" under NFPA 70E, including Lockout/Tagout procedures and
arc flash prevention.
Technical Skills: Proficiency with computer systems, AI, robotics,
data literacy, and complex diagnostic software.
Specialized Certifications: ASE's xEV certifications (Electrical
Safety Awareness, Technician Electrical Safety) are becoming
industry standards.
Electrician Training: EVITP certification for installing and
maintaining charging infrastructure.
Soft Skills: Complex problem-solving, precision, and strong
attention to detail are crucial.
Training & Education Pathways:
Apprenticeships: "Earn-and-learn" opportunities through employer-
based programs.
Formal Training: Programs integrating hands-on robotics, AI, and
data literacy.
On-the-Job Training: Essential for practical skills development.
Want to work on BEVs in the US? You need training and *must have*
certification else you don't get to first base. In order to work on >>>>> anything above ~60 Volts DC, you are required to have appropriate
electrical certification and you don't get that just because you're >>>>> *talented*. Darren may have you convinced trade qualifications and
certifications come in Weeties packets but that's not how the real
world works hence there is no record anywhere of Darren's claimed
achievements.
The concept of isolating a faulty component from the rest of its >>>>>>> circuitry is not new and not isolated to electrical.
Rare these days in electronics
I did mention *discrete circuitry*. If the board or circuit doesn't >>>>> have a lot of discrete components, as is common in electronics
these days, then the method is fraught.
It is common in electronics to test discrete components *out of >>>>>>> circuit* so that the circuitry does not provide any form of
*loading*.
You obviously know little about fault finding electronics, it's
rare to have to do that, 90% of the time, the only reason that you >>>>>> take a component out of circuit is because you have already
determined that it is faulty.
That is all the indies did, they disconnected *both* ends of the >>>>>>> HV Cable from the associated circuits and that *isolated the
fault to one of two wires which was then easy to test.
Test how?
IIRC, the tech used an *insulation tester*. Specialised areas,
specialised tools, specialised training. Not surprised you didn't
notice that point in the video - a whoosh moment for you.
The hero speaketh!
It is exactly what I would have done. Just need to have relevant >>>>>>> test equipment and know how to use it. That you need to be told >>>>>>> this tells me that your training in and understanding of
electrical concepts is also rather sparse.
ROTFL, Your knowledge of diagnosing electronics is about on the
same level as the 14yo who wants to be an auto sparky.
The most difficult part of diagnosing electronic faults is
recreating the problem, if it is there constantly, it's gift. Take >>>>>> it from somebody who spent 40 years fixing electronics of all kinds. >>>>>
Yeah, yours!
But accurate when describing you.
On 2/1/2026 10:52 pm, keithr0 wrote:
On 2/01/2026 8:18 pm, Xeno wrote:
On 2/1/2026 7:54 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:Interesting, my RAV is an AWD, and there appears to be a spare right
On 30/12/2025 3:19 pm, keithr0 wrote:If it is AWD, likely no spare. 2WD should have a space saver. The
On 29/12/2025 7:20 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 29/12/2025 6:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
A week ago last Friday, the car fairy paid a visit, and, like all >>>>>>> good fairies, left a present - a RAV4.
**Nice. I've short-listed the RAV4 PHEV for a test drive. I hope
it meets with expectations and equals the equivalent Lexus (which >>>>>> I have driven).
It has only done one journey beyond the local area, a 25Km trip >>>>>>> to our daughter's place for Xmas day, but the economy looks OK, >>>>>>> usually in the low 5s, sometimes in the upper 4s. It's quite a
change from the Mazda 3, apart from the driving position being
significantly higher, things have moved on in the 10 years since >>>>>>> we bought the M3.
Yeah, economy is pretty good for a big car.
It's the first car that I've owned without a manual handbrake, I >>>>>>> used to use it any time I had to stop for more than a few second, >>>>>>> and disliked the electric ones. In this one though, although it >>>>>>> is electric, there is little reason to to touch it, it comes on >>>>>>> automatically in park, and there is a hold function for the times >>>>>>> when I'd have used the manual one for a short stop.
**Yep. Similar to my 8 year old Suby. Very convenient.
**You will. It can make driving very relaxing, if you use it right. >>>>>>
I haven't found anything yet to really dislike, although I'm not >>>>>>> sure about the adaptive cruise control, maybe I'll get used to it. >>>>>>
-a-aIt has a
"Digital" rear view mirror, you can switch it between a
conventional mirror and a screen connected to a camera on the
tailgate. The picture from the camera is excellent, and gives a >>>>>>> wider view than the mirror. The problem is that looking in a
mirror, objects appear the same distance behind the mirror as
they are in front so your eyes don't need to re-focus. The camera >>>>>>> view, however, involves looking a screen centimetres away, so it >>>>>>> takes a finite time to re- focus when you glance at it.
**Same as my Suby. I rarely use it, but when the back is fully
loaded, it works a treat. I love showing it to people who have
never seen it. Freaks 'em out.
The 360 view camera, is good when getting into a tight or awkward >>>>>>> parking spot, it comes on automatically in reverse, but, if you >>>>>>> want it while going forward, they put the switch in a really
awkward spot at the bottom of the dash.
**I don't get that in the Suby. Don't get that daft engine shut-
off either. I guess Subaru figured that a performance car doesn't >>>>>> need that shit.
I assume you have RCA (Rear Crossing Alert) or similar. Utterly
brilliant. It should be mandatory on all cars.
Even the 10yo Mazda 3 had that.
One thing I don't like about Toyotas, is the implementation of the >>>>>> auto braking. That said, maybe they've improved. Subaru does it
much better. Maybe it's because they use cameras.
I guess you don't have a spare tyre?
I wouldn't buy a car that didn't have one. All models of the RAV4
have them, if you buy the poverty pack, you can pay extra for a
full size one, not sure why not with the other models.
**I am hopeful that the RAV4 PHEV carries a spare. No one seems to
know right now.
issue is with the location of the rear drive motor and the number of
extra batteries.
there under the boot. I can take a picture of it if you like.
I said *likely* because on others, say, the Yaris Cross for instance,
the rear motor takes up too much space. When shopping for a new set of wheels, I was looking at the Yaris Cross and the game changer for me was
no spare at all on the AWD.
On 2/01/2026 10:00 pm, Xeno wrote:
On 2/1/2026 10:52 pm, keithr0 wrote:The Corolla Cross is the same, one reason that I didn't buy one. You
On 2/01/2026 8:18 pm, Xeno wrote:
On 2/1/2026 7:54 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:Interesting, my RAV is an AWD, and there appears to be a spare right
On 30/12/2025 3:19 pm, keithr0 wrote:If it is AWD, likely no spare. 2WD should have a space saver. The
On 29/12/2025 7:20 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 29/12/2025 6:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
A week ago last Friday, the car fairy paid a visit, and, like >>>>>>>> all good fairies, left a present - a RAV4.
**Nice. I've short-listed the RAV4 PHEV for a test drive. I hope >>>>>>> it meets with expectations and equals the equivalent Lexus (which >>>>>>> I have driven).
It has only done one journey beyond the local area, a 25Km trip >>>>>>>> to our daughter's place for Xmas day, but the economy looks OK, >>>>>>>> usually in the low 5s, sometimes in the upper 4s. It's quite a >>>>>>>> change from the Mazda 3, apart from the driving position being >>>>>>>> significantly higher, things have moved on in the 10 years since >>>>>>>> we bought the M3.
Yeah, economy is pretty good for a big car.
**Yep. Similar to my 8 year old Suby. Very convenient.
It's the first car that I've owned without a manual handbrake, I >>>>>>>> used to use it any time I had to stop for more than a few
second, and disliked the electric ones. In this one though,
although it is electric, there is little reason to to touch it, >>>>>>>> it comes on automatically in park, and there is a hold function >>>>>>>> for the times when I'd have used the manual one for a short stop. >>>>>>>
**You will. It can make driving very relaxing, if you use it right. >>>>>>>
I haven't found anything yet to really dislike, although I'm not >>>>>>>> sure about the adaptive cruise control, maybe I'll get used to it. >>>>>>>
-a-aIt has a
"Digital" rear view mirror, you can switch it between a**Same as my Suby. I rarely use it, but when the back is fully
conventional mirror and a screen connected to a camera on the >>>>>>>> tailgate. The picture from the camera is excellent, and gives a >>>>>>>> wider view than the mirror. The problem is that looking in a
mirror, objects appear the same distance behind the mirror as >>>>>>>> they are in front so your eyes don't need to re-focus. The
camera view, however, involves looking a screen centimetres
away, so it takes a finite time to re- focus when you glance at it. >>>>>>>
loaded, it works a treat. I love showing it to people who have
never seen it. Freaks 'em out.
The 360 view camera, is good when getting into a tight or
awkward parking spot, it comes on automatically in reverse, but, >>>>>>>> if you want it while going forward, they put the switch in a
really awkward spot at the bottom of the dash.
**I don't get that in the Suby. Don't get that daft engine shut- >>>>>>> off either. I guess Subaru figured that a performance car doesn't >>>>>>> need that shit.
I assume you have RCA (Rear Crossing Alert) or similar. Utterly >>>>>>> brilliant. It should be mandatory on all cars.
Even the 10yo Mazda 3 had that.
One thing I don't like about Toyotas, is the implementation of
the auto braking. That said, maybe they've improved. Subaru does >>>>>>> it much better. Maybe it's because they use cameras.
I guess you don't have a spare tyre?
I wouldn't buy a car that didn't have one. All models of the RAV4 >>>>>> have them, if you buy the poverty pack, you can pay extra for a
full size one, not sure why not with the other models.
**I am hopeful that the RAV4 PHEV carries a spare. No one seems to
know right now.
issue is with the location of the rear drive motor and the number of
extra batteries.
there under the boot. I can take a picture of it if you like.
I said *likely* because on others, say, the Yaris Cross for instance,
the rear motor takes up too much space. When shopping for a new set of
wheels, I was looking at the Yaris Cross and the game changer for me
was no spare at all on the AWD.
were however too lazy to look it up for the RAV before posting that
twaddle.
On 2/01/2026 8:18 pm, Xeno wrote:
If it is AWD, likely no spare. 2WD should have a space saver. TheInteresting, my RAV is an AWD, and there appears to be a spare right
issue is with the location of the rear drive motor and the number of
extra batteries.
there under the boot. I can take a picture of it if you like.
On 30/12/2025 9:55 am, Clocky wrote:
On 29/12/2025 5:49 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 29/12/2025 8:19 pm, Daryl wrote:
On 29/12/2025 6:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
A week ago last Friday, the car fairy paid a visit, and, like all
good fairies, left a present - a RAV4.
It has only done one journey beyond the local area, a 25Km trip to
our daughter's place for Xmas day, but the economy looks OK,
usually in the low 5s, sometimes in the upper 4s. It's quite a
change from the Mazda 3, apart from the driving position being
significantly higher, things have moved on in the 10 years since we >>>>> bought the M3.
Not necessarily for the better IMO, too much electronics to go
wrong, most of it is pretty reliable but can be a nightmare when it
isn't.
**Bullshit. Electronics, in general, have improved car reliability
dramatically.
Absolute garbage. Most definitely not.
-a-aI cite the example of EFI as one that has VASTLY improved
almost every aspect of engine flexibility,
Yeah that was many decades ago now and did vastly improve reliability
but as time has gone on and countless modules and systems have been
introduced for superfluous bullshit reliability has declined.
And that's not just electronics - cost reduction, emission control
systems, CRD and pushing engines to their limits etc have all
contributed to a decline in long term reliability.
**Bullshit. My FC Holden was pretty much buggered at around 100,000
miles.
around 100,000km.
one, but it was headed for the scrapyard at around 100,000km.
2L SOHC Escort was a bit special. It actually lasted quite well, whilst proving me with huge enjoyment. Even at 100,000km, it was happily
revving past 7,000RPM. Until it was written off by an idiot running a
red.
150,000km. I actually managed to sell it. Then my VH Commodore came
along. It lasted 175,000km before a complete engine swap (big mistake - Higginbottom disaster). That engine lasted another 100,000km, before it died.
220,000km up. Then came my VP Commodore. Bits would fall off it and the paint was, well, barely paint, but it was generally quite reliable,
until a tree branch (weighing an estimated 3 Tonnes) killed it at around 250,000km. Then I drove my partner's Ford Telstar. We sold it at
245,000km. It was running fine. I just couldn't get the air-con fixed.
Then my Nissan Stagea. I sold it at 245,000kms. I regularly receive
texts from the purchaser, who is clocking up big kms in it. He loves it.
As did I. It was a quite sophisticated car, electronically. Drive by
wire, reversing camera, GPS, auto folding and tilting mirrors, etc, etc.
All I can say is that cars are getting more reliable with each purchase.
My Subaru Levorg has not given me a millisecond's trouble in 7 years. Of course, I've been using the same mechanic, or the guy who trained under
that mechanic for many years. I trust him/them to ensure that my cars
are reliable. In fact, when I purchased the VL, he swapped out the
radiator cap on day one for a Toyota(?!) unit.
On 2/01/2026 10:52 pm, keithr0 wrote:
On 2/01/2026 8:18 pm, Xeno wrote:
If it is AWD, likely no spare. 2WD should have a space saver. TheInteresting, my RAV is an AWD, and there appears to be a spare right
issue is with the location of the rear drive motor and the number of
extra batteries.
there under the boot. I can take a picture of it if you like.
Lol :)
Reality shooting holes in his bullshit yet *again*. Jeez, you'd reckon mental case would have learnt his lesson and had enough by now.... :)
On 2/01/2026 10:52 pm, keithr0 wrote:
On 2/01/2026 8:18 pm, Xeno wrote:
If it is AWD, likely no spare. 2WD should have a space saver. TheInteresting, my RAV is an AWD, and there appears to be a spare right
issue is with the location of the rear drive motor and the number of
extra batteries.
there under the boot. I can take a picture of it if you like.
Lol :)
Reality shooting holes in his bullshit yet *again*. Jeez, you'd reckon mental case would have learnt his lesson and had enough by now.... :)
On 2/01/2026 4:59 pm, Clocky wrote:
However, some people have a natural ability to think outside of the
square or have a greater interest in a particular field that is
advantageous -
Yeah, that's right. Like people who, when an intermittent fault with an error code that cannot be retrieved can't get the fault to occur when they're looking at the vehicle do a bit of lateral thinking and swap
parts around to see if the fault follows the swap the next time it
occurs which will positively identify the cause.
that is true and that can be helpful.
It is indeed. I know a guy like that. He made a good living solving the problems a lot of other people could not :)
My understanding of electronics and electrics as well as experience
has certainly benefited me over the years, certainly financially.
What was it? House paid off in six years repairing ECU's?
You should run that by Trevor as an example of just how unreliable automotive electronics can be :)
On 2/01/2026 3:53 pm, Xeno wrote:
On 1/1/2026 9:41 pm, keithr0 wrote:The sound of running feet disappearing into the distance.
On 1/01/2026 6:32 pm, Xeno wrote:
On 31/12/2025 5:07 pm, Daryl wrote:
On 31/12/2025 3:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
On 31/12/2025 12:31 pm, Xeno wrote:
On 31/12/2025 10:20 am, Daryl wrote:
<snippety doo dah>
You really don't have a clue, do you? It's all about understanding
Maybe mechanics figure they don't need to go back to Tech,
they'll just learn from *experience*. Just like Darren did when >>>>>>> he *experienced* what would happen when he removed ~20 thou of
piston to valve clearance on Les' engine. Hmm, that was a rather >>>>>>> expensive lesson, wasn't it? Not as expensive as the above parts >>>>>>> cannon exercise with the BEV but getting up there!
Just the usual crap that, for some strange reason, you find
necessary to include no matter the subject.
He can't help himself, he is wrong on all counts because it never
happened yet he keeping go over the same shit making a fool of
himself over and over again.
The people who couldn't find the fault were dealer trained and
following the manufactures fault finding procedures, the ones who
eventually found the fault were independents who worked it out
without specific training on that model, so much for dealing
"training".
electrical concepts hence the ability to conduct effective testing.
I have stated many times in the past - a lot of mechanics simply do
not understand *electricity* well enough to do basic testing much
less the testing of electronic or networking circuitry. Dealer
training has nothing to do with it. These chaps *understood*
electrical concepts and were able to translate that to an effective
testing regime.
I.E. talent is more important than qualifications. Thanks for agreeing.
Hardly! Training is what is needed. From training and associated work
experience comes certification.
AI Overview
Working on Battery Electric Vehicles (BEVs) in the U.S. requires
specialized training, certifications (like ASE EV certifications and
EVITP for electricians), and adherence to strict safety standards
(like NFPA 70E) due to high voltages (200-600V), demanding skills in
electrical systems, advanced software, robotics, and safe chemical
handling, often involving hands-on apprenticeships and focusing on
complex problem-solving.
Key Requirements & Skills:
Electrical Expertise: High-voltage systems (200-600V), power
inverters, DC-DC converters, and battery management systems (BMS).
Safety Certifications: Mandatory training for "Qualified Electrical
Workers" under NFPA 70E, including Lockout/Tagout procedures and arc
flash prevention.
Technical Skills: Proficiency with computer systems, AI, robotics,
data literacy, and complex diagnostic software.
Specialized Certifications: ASE's xEV certifications (Electrical
Safety Awareness, Technician Electrical Safety) are becoming industry
standards.
Electrician Training: EVITP certification for installing and
maintaining charging infrastructure.
Soft Skills: Complex problem-solving, precision, and strong attention
to detail are crucial.
Training & Education Pathways:
Apprenticeships: "Earn-and-learn" opportunities through employer-based
programs.
Formal Training: Programs integrating hands-on robotics, AI, and data
literacy.
On-the-Job Training: Essential for practical skills development.
Want to work on BEVs in the US? You need training and *must have*
certification else you don't get to first base. In order to work on
anything above ~60 Volts DC, you are required to have appropriate
electrical certification and you don't get that just because you're
*talented*. Darren may have you convinced trade qualifications and
certifications come in Weeties packets but that's not how the real
world works hence there is no record anywhere of Darren's claimed
achievements.
The concept of isolating a faulty component from the rest of its
circuitry is not new and not isolated to electrical.
Rare these days in electronics
I did mention *discrete circuitry*. If the board or circuit doesn't
have a lot of discrete components, as is common in electronics these
days, then the method is fraught.
It is common in electronics to test discrete components *out ofYou obviously know little about fault finding electronics, it's rare
circuit* so that the circuitry does not provide any form of *loading*. >>>
to have to do that, 90% of the time, the only reason that you take a
component out of circuit is because you have already determined that
it is faulty.
That is all the indies did, they disconnected *both* ends of the HV
Cable from the associated circuits and that *isolated the fault to
one of two wires which was then easy to test.
Test how?
IIRC, the tech used an *insulation tester*. Specialised areas,
specialised tools, specialised training. Not surprised you didn't
notice that point in the video - a whoosh moment for you.
It is exactly what I would have done. Just need to have relevant
test equipment and know how to use it. That you need to be told this
tells me that your training in and understanding of electrical
concepts is also rather sparse.
ROTFL, Your knowledge of diagnosing electronics is about on the same
level as the 14yo who wants to be an auto sparky.
The most difficult part of diagnosing electronic faults is recreating
the problem, if it is there constantly, it's gift. Take it from
somebody who spent 40 years fixing electronics of all kinds.
The hero speaketh!
On 2/01/2026 10:52 pm, keithr0 wrote:
On 2/01/2026 8:18 pm, Xeno wrote:
If it is AWD, likely no spare. 2WD should have a space saver. TheInteresting, my RAV is an AWD, and there appears to be a spare right
issue is with the location of the rear drive motor and the number of
extra batteries.
there under the boot. I can take a picture of it if you like.
Lol :)
Reality shooting holes in his bullshit yet *again*. Jeez, you'd reckon mental case would have learnt his lesson and had enough by now.... :)
On 3/1/2026 12:03 am, Noddy wrote:
On 2/01/2026 10:52 pm, keithr0 wrote:Your English comprehension is way more flawed than Keiths.
On 2/01/2026 8:18 pm, Xeno wrote:
If it is AWD, likely no spare. 2WD should have a space saver. TheInteresting, my RAV is an AWD, and there appears to be a spare right
issue is with the location of the rear drive motor and the number of
extra batteries.
there under the boot. I can take a picture of it if you like.
Lol :)
Reality shooting holes in his bullshit yet *again*. Jeez, you'd reckon
mental case would have learnt his lesson and had enough by now.... :)
But we knew that because you couldn't even pass year 9.
On 2/01/2026 6:46 pm, Noddy wrote:
On 2/01/2026 4:59 pm, Clocky wrote:
However, some people have a natural ability to think outside of the
square or have a greater interest in a particular field that is
advantageous -
Yeah, that's right. Like people who, when an intermittent fault with
an error code that cannot be retrieved can't get the fault to occur
when they're looking at the vehicle do a bit of lateral thinking and
swap parts around to see if the fault follows the swap the next time
it occurs which will positively identify the cause.
LOL, lateral thinking back to the 70's and all you know - part swapping
in hope and ignorance.
No goose, you failed to realise that an intermittent fault of that
nature can easily be diagnosed by a tool that you had in your arsenal -
and you literally said that you didn't even plug it in.
Noddy on April 15 2023 wrote;
"I never bothered plugging my scan tool in in the first place"
So you had the tool at hand to diagnose it quickly and effectively but because you didn't know how to do that *and* because you're too lazy and stupid to learn you reached for all you know - shotgunning in hope.
The best part is that you have absolutely no idea *why* you look so
stupid and incompetent having posted that :-)
It's the equivalent of you having a box of metric spanners and reaching
for a gas-axe to undo an metric bolt on your Jeep because the Imperial spanner you tried didn't fit.
that is true and that can be helpful.
It is indeed. I know a guy like that. He made a good living solving
the problems a lot of other people could not :)
Thanks, I did make good money from it and also from picking up after
people like you. Nice of you to acknowledge it.
My understanding of electronics and electrics as well as experience
has certainly benefited me over the years, certainly financially.
What was it? House paid off in six years repairing ECU's?
Not my claim but it is yet reveal as to why you're the absolute worst
person to ever take a car to.
You should run that by Trevor as an example of just how unreliable
automotive electronics can be :)
I spoke the truth, you can't.
On 2/01/2026 6:08 pm, keithr0 wrote:
On 2/01/2026 3:53 pm, Xeno wrote:
On 1/1/2026 9:41 pm, keithr0 wrote:The sound of running feet disappearing into the distance.
On 1/01/2026 6:32 pm, Xeno wrote:
On 31/12/2025 5:07 pm, Daryl wrote:
On 31/12/2025 3:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
On 31/12/2025 12:31 pm, Xeno wrote:
On 31/12/2025 10:20 am, Daryl wrote:
<snippety doo dah>
Hardly! Training is what is needed. From training and associated workYou really don't have a clue, do you? It's all about understanding
Maybe mechanics figure they don't need to go back to Tech,
they'll just learn from *experience*. Just like Darren did when >>>>>>>> he *experienced* what would happen when he removed ~20 thou of >>>>>>>> piston to valve clearance on Les' engine. Hmm, that was a rather >>>>>>>> expensive lesson, wasn't it? Not as expensive as the above parts >>>>>>>> cannon exercise with the BEV but getting up there!
Just the usual crap that, for some strange reason, you find
necessary to include no matter the subject.
He can't help himself, he is wrong on all counts because it never >>>>>> happened yet he keeping go over the same shit making a fool of
himself over and over again.
The people who couldn't find the fault were dealer trained and
following the manufactures fault finding procedures, the ones who >>>>>> eventually found the fault were independents who worked it out
without specific training on that model, so much for dealing
"training".
electrical concepts hence the ability to conduct effective testing. >>>>> I have stated many times in the past - a lot of mechanics simply do >>>>> not understand *electricity* well enough to do basic testing much
less the testing of electronic or networking circuitry. Dealer
training has nothing to do with it. These chaps *understood*
electrical concepts and were able to translate that to an effective >>>>> testing regime.
I.E. talent is more important than qualifications. Thanks for agreeing. >>>
experience comes certification.
AI Overview
Working on Battery Electric Vehicles (BEVs) in the U.S. requires
specialized training, certifications (like ASE EV certifications and
EVITP for electricians), and adherence to strict safety standards
(like NFPA 70E) due to high voltages (200-600V), demanding skills in
electrical systems, advanced software, robotics, and safe chemical
handling, often involving hands-on apprenticeships and focusing on
complex problem-solving.
Key Requirements & Skills:
Electrical Expertise: High-voltage systems (200-600V), power
inverters, DC-DC converters, and battery management systems (BMS).
Safety Certifications: Mandatory training for "Qualified Electrical
Workers" under NFPA 70E, including Lockout/Tagout procedures and arc
flash prevention.
Technical Skills: Proficiency with computer systems, AI, robotics,
data literacy, and complex diagnostic software.
Specialized Certifications: ASE's xEV certifications (Electrical
Safety Awareness, Technician Electrical Safety) are becoming industry
standards.
Electrician Training: EVITP certification for installing and
maintaining charging infrastructure.
Soft Skills: Complex problem-solving, precision, and strong attention
to detail are crucial.
Training & Education Pathways:
Apprenticeships: "Earn-and-learn" opportunities through employer-
based programs.
Formal Training: Programs integrating hands-on robotics, AI, and data
literacy.
On-the-Job Training: Essential for practical skills development.
Want to work on BEVs in the US? You need training and *must have*
certification else you don't get to first base. In order to work on
anything above ~60 Volts DC, you are required to have appropriate
electrical certification and you don't get that just because you're
*talented*. Darren may have you convinced trade qualifications and
certifications come in Weeties packets but that's not how the real
world works hence there is no record anywhere of Darren's claimed
achievements.
The concept of isolating a faulty component from the rest of its
circuitry is not new and not isolated to electrical.
Rare these days in electronics
I did mention *discrete circuitry*. If the board or circuit doesn't
have a lot of discrete components, as is common in electronics these
days, then the method is fraught.
It is common in electronics to test discrete components *out ofYou obviously know little about fault finding electronics, it's rare
circuit* so that the circuitry does not provide any form of *loading*. >>>>
to have to do that, 90% of the time, the only reason that you take a
component out of circuit is because you have already determined that
it is faulty.
That is all the indies did, they disconnected *both* ends of the HV >>>>> Cable from the associated circuits and that *isolated the fault to
one of two wires which was then easy to test.
Test how?
IIRC, the tech used an *insulation tester*. Specialised areas,
specialised tools, specialised training. Not surprised you didn't
notice that point in the video - a whoosh moment for you.
It is exactly what I would have done. Just need to have relevant
test equipment and know how to use it. That you need to be told
this tells me that your training in and understanding of electrical >>>>> concepts is also rather sparse.
ROTFL, Your knowledge of diagnosing electronics is about on the same
level as the 14yo who wants to be an auto sparky.
The most difficult part of diagnosing electronic faults is
recreating the problem, if it is there constantly, it's gift. Take
it from somebody who spent 40 years fixing electronics of all kinds.
The hero speaketh!
Come back keith!
On 3/01/2026 11:38 am, Clocky wrote:
On 2/01/2026 6:46 pm, Noddy wrote:
On 2/01/2026 4:59 pm, Clocky wrote:
However, some people have a natural ability to think outside of the
square or have a greater interest in a particular field that is
advantageous -
Yeah, that's right. Like people who, when an intermittent fault with
an error code that cannot be retrieved can't get the fault to occur
when they're looking at the vehicle do a bit of lateral thinking and
swap parts around to see if the fault follows the swap the next time
it occurs which will positively identify the cause.
LOL, lateral thinking back to the 70's and all you know - part
swapping in hope and ignorance.
No goose, you failed to realise that an intermittent fault of that
nature can easily be diagnosed by a tool that you had in your arsenal
- and you literally said that you didn't even plug it in.
Noddy on April 15 2023 wrote;
"I never bothered plugging my scan tool in in the first place"
So you had the tool at hand to diagnose it quickly and effectively but
because you didn't know how to do that *and* because you're too lazy
and stupid to learn you reached for all you know - shotgunning in hope.
The best part is that you have absolutely no idea *why* you look so
stupid and incompetent having posted that :-)
It's the equivalent of you having a box of metric spanners and
reaching for a gas-axe to undo an metric bolt on your Jeep because the
Imperial spanner you tried didn't fit.
You never did explain how long term fuel trim was going to diagnose a
single misfire several weeks previous.
that is true and that can be helpful.
It is indeed. I know a guy like that. He made a good living solving
the problems a lot of other people could not :)
Thanks, I did make good money from it and also from picking up after
people like you. Nice of you to acknowledge it.
My understanding of electronics and electrics as well as experience
has certainly benefited me over the years, certainly financially.
What was it? House paid off in six years repairing ECU's?
Not my claim but it is yet reveal as to why you're the absolute worst
person to ever take a car to.
You should run that by Trevor as an example of just how unreliable
automotive electronics can be :)
I spoke the truth, you can't.
You "Speak the truth" ROTFL.
On 3/01/2026 11:39 am, Clocky wrote:
On 2/01/2026 6:08 pm, keithr0 wrote:You said that you couldn't speak any English at the age of 9, well it
On 2/01/2026 3:53 pm, Xeno wrote:
On 1/1/2026 9:41 pm, keithr0 wrote:The sound of running feet disappearing into the distance.
On 1/01/2026 6:32 pm, Xeno wrote:
On 31/12/2025 5:07 pm, Daryl wrote:
On 31/12/2025 3:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
On 31/12/2025 12:31 pm, Xeno wrote:
On 31/12/2025 10:20 am, Daryl wrote:
<snippety doo dah>
You really don't have a clue, do you? It's all about understanding >>>>>> electrical concepts hence the ability to conduct effective
Maybe mechanics figure they don't need to go back to Tech,Just the usual crap that, for some strange reason, you find
they'll just learn from *experience*. Just like Darren did when >>>>>>>>> he *experienced* what would happen when he removed ~20 thou of >>>>>>>>> piston to valve clearance on Les' engine. Hmm, that was a
rather expensive lesson, wasn't it? Not as expensive as the >>>>>>>>> above parts cannon exercise with the BEV but getting up there! >>>>>>>>
necessary to include no matter the subject.
He can't help himself, he is wrong on all counts because it never >>>>>>> happened yet he keeping go over the same shit making a fool of
himself over and over again.
The people who couldn't find the fault were dealer trained and
following the manufactures fault finding procedures, the ones who >>>>>>> eventually found the fault were independents who worked it out
without specific training on that model, so much for dealing
"training".
testing. I have stated many times in the past - a lot of mechanics >>>>>> simply do not understand *electricity* well enough to do basic
testing much less the testing of electronic or networking
circuitry. Dealer training has nothing to do with it. These chaps >>>>>> *understood* electrical concepts and were able to translate that
to an effective testing regime.
I.E. talent is more important than qualifications. Thanks for
agreeing.
Hardly! Training is what is needed. From training and associated
work experience comes certification.
AI Overview
Working on Battery Electric Vehicles (BEVs) in the U.S. requires
specialized training, certifications (like ASE EV certifications and
EVITP for electricians), and adherence to strict safety standards
(like NFPA 70E) due to high voltages (200-600V), demanding skills in
electrical systems, advanced software, robotics, and safe chemical
handling, often involving hands-on apprenticeships and focusing on
complex problem-solving.
Key Requirements & Skills:
Electrical Expertise: High-voltage systems (200-600V), power
inverters, DC-DC converters, and battery management systems (BMS).
Safety Certifications: Mandatory training for "Qualified Electrical
Workers" under NFPA 70E, including Lockout/Tagout procedures and arc
flash prevention.
Technical Skills: Proficiency with computer systems, AI, robotics,
data literacy, and complex diagnostic software.
Specialized Certifications: ASE's xEV certifications (Electrical
Safety Awareness, Technician Electrical Safety) are becoming
industry standards.
Electrician Training: EVITP certification for installing and
maintaining charging infrastructure.
Soft Skills: Complex problem-solving, precision, and strong
attention to detail are crucial.
Training & Education Pathways:
Apprenticeships: "Earn-and-learn" opportunities through employer-
based programs.
Formal Training: Programs integrating hands-on robotics, AI, and
data literacy.
On-the-Job Training: Essential for practical skills development.
Want to work on BEVs in the US? You need training and *must have*
certification else you don't get to first base. In order to work on
anything above ~60 Volts DC, you are required to have appropriate
electrical certification and you don't get that just because you're
*talented*. Darren may have you convinced trade qualifications and
certifications come in Weeties packets but that's not how the real
world works hence there is no record anywhere of Darren's claimed
achievements.
The concept of isolating a faulty component from the rest of its
circuitry is not new and not isolated to electrical.
Rare these days in electronics
I did mention *discrete circuitry*. If the board or circuit doesn't
have a lot of discrete components, as is common in electronics these
days, then the method is fraught.
It is common in electronics to test discrete components *out of
circuit* so that the circuitry does not provide any form of
*loading*.
You obviously know little about fault finding electronics, it's
rare to have to do that, 90% of the time, the only reason that you
take a component out of circuit is because you have already
determined that it is faulty.
That is all the indies did, they disconnected *both* ends of the
HV Cable from the associated circuits and that *isolated the fault >>>>>> to one of two wires which was then easy to test.
Test how?
IIRC, the tech used an *insulation tester*. Specialised areas,
specialised tools, specialised training. Not surprised you didn't
notice that point in the video - a whoosh moment for you.
It is exactly what I would have done. Just need to have relevant
test equipment and know how to use it. That you need to be told
this tells me that your training in and understanding of
electrical concepts is also rather sparse.
ROTFL, Your knowledge of diagnosing electronics is about on the
same level as the 14yo who wants to be an auto sparky.
The most difficult part of diagnosing electronic faults is
recreating the problem, if it is there constantly, it's gift. Take
it from somebody who spent 40 years fixing electronics of all kinds.
The hero speaketh!
Come back keith!
would appear that you can't understand it even today.
On 30/12/2025 9:55 am, Clocky wrote:
On 29/12/2025 5:49 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 29/12/2025 8:19 pm, Daryl wrote:
On 29/12/2025 6:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
A week ago last Friday, the car fairy paid a visit, and, like all
good fairies, left a present - a RAV4.
It has only done one journey beyond the local area, a 25Km trip to
our daughter's place for Xmas day, but the economy looks OK,
usually in the low 5s, sometimes in the upper 4s. It's quite a
change from the Mazda 3, apart from the driving position being
significantly higher, things have moved on in the 10 years since we >>>>> bought the M3.
Not necessarily for the better IMO, too much electronics to go
wrong, most of it is pretty reliable but can be a nightmare when it
isn't.
**Bullshit. Electronics, in general, have improved car reliability
dramatically.
Absolute garbage. Most definitely not.
-a-aI cite the example of EFI as one that has VASTLY improved
almost every aspect of engine flexibility,
Yeah that was many decades ago now and did vastly improve reliability
but as time has gone on and countless modules and systems have been
introduced for superfluous bullshit reliability has declined.
And that's not just electronics - cost reduction, emission control
systems, CRD and pushing engines to their limits etc have all
contributed to a decline in long term reliability.
**Bullshit. My FC Holden was pretty much buggered at around 100,000
miles. My first Escort (1.3L) was headed for a major engine rebuild at around 100,000km. My second Escort (1.6L pushrod) was a dud from day
one, but it was headed for the scrapyard at around 100,000km. My first
2L SOHC Escort was a bit special. It actually lasted quite well, whilst proving me with huge enjoyment. Even at 100,000km, it was happily
revving past 7,000RPM. Until it was written off by an idiot running a
red. My last Escort (2L) was a disappointment, but it lasted past
150,000km. I actually managed to sell it. Then my VH Commodore came
along. It lasted 175,000km before a complete engine swap (big mistake - Higginbottom disaster). That engine lasted another 100,000km, before it died. After that, my VL. Never gave me a minute's problems.
220,000km up. Then came my VP Commodore. Bits would fall off it and the paint was, well, barely paint, but it was generally quite reliable,
until a tree branch (weighing an estimated 3 Tonnes) killed it at around 250,000km.
245,000km. It was running fine.
Then my Nissan Stagea. I sold it at 245,000kms. I regularly receive
texts from the purchaser, who is clocking up big kms in it. He loves it.
As did I. It was a quite sophisticated car, electronically. Drive by
wire, reversing camera, GPS, auto folding and tilting mirrors, etc, etc.
All I can say is that cars are getting more reliable with each purchase.
My Subaru Levorg has not given me a millisecond's trouble in 7 years. Of course, I've been using the same mechanic, or the guy who trained under
that mechanic for many years. I trust him/them to ensure that my cars
are reliable.
radiator cap on day one for a Toyota(?!) unit.
On 2/01/2026 5:16 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 30/12/2025 9:55 am, Clocky wrote:
On 29/12/2025 5:49 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 29/12/2025 8:19 pm, Daryl wrote:
On 29/12/2025 6:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
A week ago last Friday, the car fairy paid a visit, and, like all >>>>>> good fairies, left a present - a RAV4.
It has only done one journey beyond the local area, a 25Km trip to >>>>>> our daughter's place for Xmas day, but the economy looks OK,
usually in the low 5s, sometimes in the upper 4s. It's quite a
change from the Mazda 3, apart from the driving position being
significantly higher, things have moved on in the 10 years since
we bought the M3.
Not necessarily for the better IMO, too much electronics to go
wrong, most of it is pretty reliable but can be a nightmare when it >>>>> isn't.
**Bullshit. Electronics, in general, have improved car reliability
dramatically.
Absolute garbage. Most definitely not.
-a-aI cite the example of EFI as one that has VASTLY improved
almost every aspect of engine flexibility,
Yeah that was many decades ago now and did vastly improve reliability
but as time has gone on and countless modules and systems have been
introduced for superfluous bullshit reliability has declined.
And that's not just electronics - cost reduction, emission control
systems, CRD and pushing engines to their limits etc have all
contributed to a decline in long term reliability.
**Bullshit. My FC Holden was pretty much buggered at around 100,000
miles. My first Escort (1.3L) was headed for a major engine rebuild at
around 100,000km. My second Escort (1.6L pushrod) was a dud from day
one, but it was headed for the scrapyard at around 100,000km. My first
2L SOHC Escort was a bit special. It actually lasted quite well,
whilst proving me with huge enjoyment. Even at 100,000km, it was
happily revving past 7,000RPM. Until it was written off by an idiot
running a red. My last Escort (2L) was a disappointment, but it lasted
past 150,000km. I actually managed to sell it. Then my VH Commodore
came along. It lasted 175,000km before a complete engine swap (big
mistake - Higginbottom disaster). That engine lasted another
100,000km, before it died. After that, my VL. Never gave me a minute's
problems.
Yeah which proves my point when I said EFI did vastly improve
reliability and that it was decades ago.
The VL was ~40 years ago and EFI. It had it's issues too.
Not the first Holden with EFI, that belongs to the VK and it's "black" Holden 3.3L with Bosch Jetronic EFI option. Economy and power improved, reliability, well not so much :-)
-aSold with
220,000km up. Then came my VP Commodore. Bits would fall off it and
the paint was, well, barely paint, but it was generally quite
reliable, until a tree branch (weighing an estimated 3 Tonnes) killed
it at around 250,000km.
Then I drove my partner's Ford Telstar. We sold it at
245,000km. It was running fine.
Early ones were shit.
-aI just couldn't get the air-con fixed.
Then my Nissan Stagea. I sold it at 245,000kms. I regularly receive
texts from the purchaser, who is clocking up big kms in it. He loves
it. As did I. It was a quite sophisticated car, electronically. Drive
by wire, reversing camera, GPS, auto folding and tilting mirrors, etc,
etc.
Again, hardly new nor was it or anything special.
All I can say is that cars are getting more reliable with each
purchase. My Subaru Levorg has not given me a millisecond's trouble in
7 years. Of course, I've been using the same mechanic, or the guy who
trained under that mechanic for many years. I trust him/them to ensure
that my cars are reliable.
The can only assure that they are well maintained. Reliability can't be assured.
engine problems and CVT failures over fairly recent years.
The Eyesight system has also been a bit problematic under certain conditions.
-aIn fact, when I purchased the VL, he swapped out the
radiator cap on day one for a Toyota(?!) unit.
I can assure you that that did not reposition the radiator or engine in
the slightest :-)
On 2/1/2026 8:16 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 30/12/2025 9:55 am, Clocky wrote:
On 29/12/2025 5:49 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 29/12/2025 8:19 pm, Daryl wrote:
On 29/12/2025 6:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
A week ago last Friday, the car fairy paid a visit, and, like all >>>>>> good fairies, left a present - a RAV4.
It has only done one journey beyond the local area, a 25Km trip to >>>>>> our daughter's place for Xmas day, but the economy looks OK,
usually in the low 5s, sometimes in the upper 4s. It's quite a
change from the Mazda 3, apart from the driving position being
significantly higher, things have moved on in the 10 years since
we bought the M3.
Not necessarily for the better IMO, too much electronics to go
wrong, most of it is pretty reliable but can be a nightmare when it >>>>> isn't.
**Bullshit. Electronics, in general, have improved car reliability
dramatically.
Absolute garbage. Most definitely not.
-a-aI cite the example of EFI as one that has VASTLY improved
almost every aspect of engine flexibility,
Yeah that was many decades ago now and did vastly improve reliability
but as time has gone on and countless modules and systems have been
introduced for superfluous bullshit reliability has declined.
And that's not just electronics - cost reduction, emission control
systems, CRD and pushing engines to their limits etc have all
contributed to a decline in long term reliability.
**Bullshit. My FC Holden was pretty much buggered at around 100,000
miles.
Pretty much standard for those engines in those days.
-aMy first Escort (1.3L) was headed for a major engine rebuild at
around 100,000km.
That is unusual, Kent engines are generally robust.
-aMy second Escort (1.6L pushrod) was a dud from day
one, but it was headed for the scrapyard at around 100,000km.
Also unusual.
-aMy first
2L SOHC Escort was a bit special. It actually lasted quite well,
whilst proving me with huge enjoyment. Even at 100,000km, it was
happily revving past 7,000RPM. Until it was written off by an idiot
running a red.
Also unusual because Pinto engines were just okay.
-aMy last Escort (2L) was a disappointment, but it lasted past
150,000km. I actually managed to sell it. Then my VH Commodore came
along. It lasted 175,000km before a complete engine swap (big mistake
- Higginbottom disaster). That engine lasted another 100,000km, before
it died.
Typical Holden of the day, could have been worse, you could have bought
a VK piece of shit.
-aAfter that, my VL. Never gave me a minute's problems. Sold with
220,000km up. Then came my VP Commodore. Bits would fall off it andLOL, you think that that is remarkable some how:-)
the paint was, well, barely paint, but it was generally quite
reliable, until a tree branch (weighing an estimated 3 Tonnes) killed
it at around 250,000km. Then I drove my partner's Ford Telstar. We
sold it at 245,000km. It was running fine. I just couldn't get the
air-con fixed. Then my Nissan Stagea. I sold it at 245,000kms. I
regularly receive texts from the purchaser, who is clocking up big kms
in it. He loves it. As did I. It was a quite sophisticated car,
electronically. Drive by wire, reversing camera, GPS, auto folding and
tilting mirrors, etc, etc.
All I can say is that cars are getting more reliable with each
purchase. My Subaru Levorg has not given me a millisecond's trouble in
7 years. Of course, I've been using the same mechanic, or the guy who
trained under that mechanic for many years. I trust him/them to ensure
that my cars are reliable. In fact, when I purchased the VL, he
swapped out the radiator cap on day one for a Toyota(?!) unit.
On 2/01/2026 7:52 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:**Of course they are. I have NEVER had an issue with the ignition on any
On 30/12/2025 10:46 am, Noddy wrote:
Not at all. I still own vehicles that have points ignition systems
and carburettors. They're generally not anywhere near as problematic
as you make them out to be,
**Yes, they are.
No Trevor, they are not.
**Points are a problem. Electronic systems are more reliable and ensureI've adjusted my fair share of points (and replaced same) many, many
times. I've never had to touch the timing on any modern EFI car. Ever.
A HUGE step forward in so many ways. Even my VH was a respectable step
forward. And that was a very primitive implementation of electronics
in a car.
So what?
Changing contact points was a once a year service procedure that for the average car cost around 10 bucks for the points and took all of half an**In SOME cars, yes. In a 1.3L Escort, not so much. In any case,
hour to do, including running the timing light over the engine and
adjusting the distributor.
It was a simple process, so simple even you could do it, and the only**Same as any issue. I used a timing light and a dwell meter on my cars. Worked fine. Except for the 1.3L Escort it was a simple enough job.
reason unreliability was part of the equation was when people who
*didn't* know what they were doing fucked it up.
**And such problems cease to exist now. MY old VH exbited just the kindand in fact their biggest enemy was people who had
no idea what they were doing messing with them. Their overwhelming
advantage was that, unlike modern cars, they could be fixed on the
side of the road easily if they stopped :)
**That is a way overblown advantage, given the extreme reliability of
modern electrical ignition systems.
Lol :)
The number of electronic ignition equipped cars that stopped suddenly
and were left stranded on the side of the road *far* exceeded the "unreliability" associated with points ignition systems. This was
especially so in the 1980's when manufacturers used horrible ignition modules that proved to suffer from extreme heat and vibration failures.
**Then give my your figures. I bet you don't. The vast majority ofAnd if we're going to play the "unlike you" game, then I would reply
in saying that unlike you I have worked on *hundreds* cars over the
years as well as owning an unknown number of cars myself, and if you
think that the continual addition of electronic control for an ever
increasing number of functions to modern cars has made them more
reliable then you are delusional in the extreme.
**Here's my opinion on cars:
Out of 100 typical faults in cars, I bet you the following are
approximately factual:
90 will be mechanical faults.
8 will be electro-mechanical faults.
2 will be purely electronic faults.
I may just check with my mechanic to see how for out I am.
Please, do so, but don't be upset when you discover that you're about as wrong as you could possibly be :)
In my experience, the overwhelming number of faults are either electro mechanical or purely electronic. Mechanical faults are definitely in the minority, and by a very long way.**Not with EVERY SINGLE car I've ever owned. Even my old Stagea, which
**Where do I start?Cars are *incredibly* complex machines these days, and as a result of
that complexity they have a brittleness that has been unknown in
previous times. They're wonderful machines that are capable of things
that 40 years ago people could never have imagined, but they are
incredibly fragile as a result.
**Bollocks. Sure, if an electronic system fails, then you may be in a
world of pain. However, such systems are far more reliable than purely
mechanical ones.
What purely mechanical ones are you talking about?
**I SPECIFICALLY addressed your claim of cooling system (cracked heads) issues. Purely mechanical and another failure from GMH design.I cite the example of EFI as one that has VASTLY improved almost
every aspect of engine flexibility, performance, economy and
reliability.
Then you'd be citing it for the wrong reasons.
**Really? You're wrong, of course.
Yeah, well. Your limited personal experience is *not* the average.
**Yeah, it is.
You're delusional :)
**My VL never gave me a hint of issues. Brilliant car. Well, the
engine was excellent anyway.
And this is a perfect example of how your personal experience doesn't
tell you much. The Nissan RB30 engine as used in the VL Commodore was
exceptionally well known for two distinct issues: Cylinder head
cracking, and ignition system failures.
**You just proved my point. MECHANICAL systems are the problem. NOT
electronic systems. For the record: The same engine in the Nissan
Skyline gave far fewer problems, thanks to superior cooling system
design in the Nissan.
Hate to break it to you. but the ignition system failures for which both
the VL Commodore *and* the Skyline were *not* mechanical issues.
**An electro-mechnical device, if I'm not mistaken. Remember what I saidthe CAS failure rate was so high that just about every parts seller
in the country kept change over units in stock.
**Never had a problem with mine. I assume the CAS is a consumable? If
so, my mechanic would have replaced it at the suggested intervals.
No, it isn't. Crank angle sensors are not a consumable, they are an
ignition system component that gets replaced if and when they fail, and
on the VL Commy and Skyline they failed with *alarming* regularity.
I have no idea how long you owned your VL Commodore for, but if you**Nope. It just enjoyed regular and thorough servicing.
managed to avoid either the CAS failing or the head cracking then you
were *extremely* lucky.
**Not my experience.Things have not universally improved today. While economy and power
output continue to improve, reliability seems to be conversely
affected.
**Nope. I've noted a continuous improvement in reliability of my
cars over time. That said, I've never owned any Euro-shit. Perhaps
they're different.
As I mentioned, your personal experience is *not* the average. There
are thousands of people who would happily disagree with you.
**And I would be happy to argue that electronic systems have made cars
far more reliable, economical and driveable.
And you'd be wrong. Cars these days are not more reliable. They are, however, more economical and have more features.
**I'm sure that's the case. I was well aware of the head crackingThe only thing nonsensical about this is your lack of experience
making you completely oblivious of the reality.
**That's just it: I DO have more than 50 years of car ownership
experience. I KNOW which parts of my cars have been troublesome. It
has not been the electronics.
And *again* you fail to grasp that your personal experience is *not* the average. That you had a trouble free run out of a VL Commodore is a
prime example of that.
Thousands of people did not.
**Electro-mechanical.There are *plenty* of cars out there today with electronic gremlins
Trev, and it's not just the Euros.
**Such as? And let's be real here: We're not talking about bad
design. We're talking about electronic failures in otherwise well
designed cars.
Two things here. Firstly it's a bit late in the conversation to start
qualifying your remarks, and secondly "well designed" is incredibly
subjective :)
There are a number of reasons why cars fail today, and design is only
a part of it. The continual search for lower costs is a factor, as is
inadequate testing along with the increasingly stringent emissions
standards vehicles are expected to meet today. Many vehicles today
suffer from issues that are the result of nothing more than
components not being as durable as they should be. EGR valves are a
big problem today.
**Mechanical systems. Thanks for proving my point.
The failure point on most EGR valves is the electric actuator :)
**Most mechanics suggest O2 sensors be replaced at between 100,000 ~ 150,000km. Sounds about right, given the brutal extremes that the sensorOxygen sensors are a very common failure point.
**Consumable.
Oxygen sensors are *not* a consumable. They have no fixed replacement interval. They are changed when they fail, and they fail often.
**They are electro-mechanical devices and as such, are subject to wear.Fuel injectors
having remarkably short lives.
**Electro-mechanical device. Again: It is MECHANICAL systems that
cause the vast majority of problems. Not the electronics.
Cam and crank position sensors are famous
for random failures on many vehicles.
**Consumables. Hardly electronic devices.
You have no idea, do you? They *are* electronic devices, and they are
*not* "consumables" :)
Variable rate charging systems can
be erratic.
These are just some of the everyday normalities. But then you have
your "freak" issues, like electric power steering malfunctions which
affected Toyota Corollas some years ago in the US that saw cars
suddenly pull on full right or left lock at freeway speeds, and drive
by wire throttle systems that would stick fully open which also
affected some Toyotas if I recall.
**Sounds a lot like my old man's Valiant. A common fault on that model
(AP6, I think).
They're far from isolated incidents, but the point being that
*none* of these things were problems that affected older cars in the
main, and they are all side effects of the complexity of modern
vehicles.
**Wrong. Valiant AP6. Common fault.
An AP6 Valiant didn't have a fly by wire throttle that randomly decided
to deck itself to the floor and stay there until the driver shut the
engine off.
**I doubt that.*Thousands* of
people have not, and I would suggest that if you want a genuine arms
length opinion on that then talk to your mechanic. I'm sure he'll
tell you the same thing I am :)
**If I can catch him with 5 mins to spare, I will. He is busier than a
one legged man in an arse kicking contest.
I genuinely suggest you do have a chat to him and get his perspective, because as far as I can tell you have an extreme case of tunnel vision
where you think everyone else's experiences have been exactly the same
as yours.
You'll be surprised to hear what he has to say.
On 3/01/2026 8:05 am, Daryl wrote:
On 2/1/2026 8:16 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 30/12/2025 9:55 am, Clocky wrote:
On 29/12/2025 5:49 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 29/12/2025 8:19 pm, Daryl wrote:
On 29/12/2025 6:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
A week ago last Friday, the car fairy paid a visit, and, like all >>>>>>> good fairies, left a present - a RAV4.
It has only done one journey beyond the local area, a 25Km trip >>>>>>> to our daughter's place for Xmas day, but the economy looks OK, >>>>>>> usually in the low 5s, sometimes in the upper 4s. It's quite a
change from the Mazda 3, apart from the driving position being
significantly higher, things have moved on in the 10 years since >>>>>>> we bought the M3.
Not necessarily for the better IMO, too much electronics to go
wrong, most of it is pretty reliable but can be a nightmare when
it isn't.
**Bullshit. Electronics, in general, have improved car reliability
dramatically.
Absolute garbage. Most definitely not.
-a-aI cite the example of EFI as one that has VASTLY improved
almost every aspect of engine flexibility,
Yeah that was many decades ago now and did vastly improve
reliability but as time has gone on and countless modules and
systems have been introduced for superfluous bullshit reliability
has declined.
And that's not just electronics - cost reduction, emission control
systems, CRD and pushing engines to their limits etc have all
contributed to a decline in long term reliability.
**Bullshit. My FC Holden was pretty much buggered at around 100,000
miles.
Pretty much standard for those engines in those days.
-a-aMy first Escort (1.3L) was headed for a major engine rebuild at
around 100,000km.
That is unusual, Kent engines are generally robust.
**Robust, yes. Mine was diagnosed as requiring a new set of valve
springs, along with a bunch of other stuff.
-a-aMy second Escort (1.6L pushrod) was a dud from day
one, but it was headed for the scrapyard at around 100,000km.
Also unusual.
**The 1.6L pushrod was a heap of shit. Barely made more power than the
1.3L, revved out to a pitiful 5,500RPM and Dieseled when turned off.
There was no cure. Ford had a kludge, which didn't work. All in all, the 1.6L pushrod was a profoundly disappointing car. Particularly, since I
had taken a 1.6L DOHC for a spin at the same time. WOW!
-a-aMy first
2L SOHC Escort was a bit special. It actually lasted quite well,
whilst proving me with huge enjoyment. Even at 100,000km, it was
happily revving past 7,000RPM. Until it was written off by an idiot
running a red.
Also unusual because Pinto engines were just okay.
**185kph. Redlined in top gear. Brilliant thing. I had a bit of a race
with a GTV2000 once. I kept up with him, until 140kph, where he began to pull away. Not bad for a crappy old Escort. The 2L Escort desperately deserved a 5th cog. I could easily stay with my mate's 4.1L Cortina.
Until we hit a corner, of course. Then I left him for dead.
-a-aMy last Escort (2L) was a disappointment, but it lasted past
150,000km. I actually managed to sell it. Then my VH Commodore came
along. It lasted 175,000km before a complete engine swap (big mistake
- Higginbottom disaster). That engine lasted another 100,000km,
before it died.
Typical Holden of the day, could have been worse, you could have
bought a VK piece of shit.
-a-aAfter that, my VL. Never gave me a minute's problems. Sold with
220,000km up. Then came my VP Commodore. Bits would fall off it andLOL, you think that that is remarkable some how:-)
the paint was, well, barely paint, but it was generally quite
reliable, until a tree branch (weighing an estimated 3 Tonnes) killed
it at around 250,000km. Then I drove my partner's Ford Telstar. We
sold it at 245,000km. It was running fine. I just couldn't get the
air-con fixed. Then my Nissan Stagea. I sold it at 245,000kms. I
regularly receive texts from the purchaser, who is clocking up big
kms in it. He loves it. As did I. It was a quite sophisticated car,
electronically. Drive by wire, reversing camera, GPS, auto folding
and tilting mirrors, etc, etc.
All I can say is that cars are getting more reliable with each
purchase. My Subaru Levorg has not given me a millisecond's trouble
in 7 years. Of course, I've been using the same mechanic, or the guy
who trained under that mechanic for many years. I trust him/them to
ensure that my cars are reliable. In fact, when I purchased the VL,
he swapped out the radiator cap on day one for a Toyota(?!) unit.
**I mis-remembered. He swapped the radiator cap on my VP to prevent the radiator from failing. It worked.
On 2/01/2026 9:24 pm, Noddy wrote:
Not at all. I still own vehicles that have points ignition systems
and carburettors. They're generally not anywhere near as problematic
as you make them out to be,
**Yes, they are.
No Trevor, they are not.
**Of course they are. I have NEVER had an issue with the ignition on any
EFI equipped car I've owned. OTOH, I have adjusted/replaced points many times.
I've adjusted my fair share of points (and replaced same) many, many
times. I've never had to touch the timing on any modern EFI car. Ever.
A HUGE step forward in so many ways. Even my VH was a respectable step
forward. And that was a very primitive implementation of electronics
in a car.
So what?
**Points are a problem. Electronic systems are more reliable and ensure
that the car remains in tune for much longer.
Changing contact points was a once a year service procedure that for the average car cost around 10 bucks for the points and took all of half an hour to do, including running the timing light over the engine and adjusting the distributor.
**In SOME cars, yes. In a 1.3L Escort, not so much.
In any case, electronic ignition systems eliminates the problems of points. Forever.
In fact, I would doubt that ANY presently being manufactured uses
points. There's some damned good reasons for that.
It was a simple process, so simple even you could do it, and the only reason unreliability was part of the equation was when people who
*didn't* know what they were doing fucked it up.
**Same as any issue. I used a timing light and a dwell meter on my cars. Worked fine. Except for the 1.3L Escort it was a simple enough job.
HOWEVER, even that simple job was completely eliminated with electronic ignition systems.
The number of electronic ignition equipped cars that stopped suddenly
and were left stranded on the side of the road *far* exceeded the "unreliability" associated with points ignition systems. This was especially so in the 1980's when manufacturers used horrible ignition modules that proved to suffer from extreme heat and vibration failures.
**And such problems cease to exist now.
MY old VH exbited just the kind of problem you mention. Easy solution though. PROPERLY mount the
electronics, which Holden couldn't manage to do properly. Fact is that electronic systems are great, but when installed by morons at GMH, then
all bets are off.
**Here's my opinion on cars:
Out of 100 typical faults in cars, I bet you the following are
approximately factual:
90 will be mechanical faults.
8 will be electro-mechanical faults.
2 will be purely electronic faults.
I may just check with my mechanic to see how for out I am.
Please, do so, but don't be upset when you discover that you're about as wrong as you could possibly be :)
**Then give my your figures. I bet you don't.
The vast majority of faults are mechanical and electro-mechanical. I can relate it to my
business.
In my 50+ years in business I've worked on all manner of
electronic and electro-mechanical devices (in the audio biz). That
includes amplifiers, reel-reel decks, cassette decks, turntables, CD players, even WWII vintage wire recorders. In this systems, it is electro-mechanical systems where the vast majority of faults occur. Even
in electronic systems, we find that dumb decisions by manufacturers have
led to electronic faults which should never have occurred (like in my VH).
Cars are no different, except that the systems need to be more rugged.
In my experience, the overwhelming number of faults are either electro mechanical or purely electronic. Mechanical faults are definitely in the minority, and by a very long way.
**Not with EVERY SINGLE car I've ever owned.
Even my old Stagea, which was quite a sophisticated car for it's time. Mechanical problems were
the main issues. Even the headlights in the Stagea were HID types. The headlights were the original lamps up until 200,000kms. I replaced them,
as they had lost some of their light output. Now, I'm not 100% certain,
but I reckon I've replaced at least one headlight in every car I've ever owned. The vast majority were H4 halogen types. The FC used sealed
beams, I think and the old generator could barely generate enough juice
to burn them out.
**Bollocks. Sure, if an electronic system fails, then you may be in a
world of pain. However, such systems are far more reliable than purely
mechanical ones.
What purely mechanical ones are you talking about?**Where do I start?
Brakes, wheel bearings, suspension issues, fan belt failures, radiator
leaks (by VP went through 3 radiators), valve spring failures, cracked sub-frames, turbo failures, etc.
**You just proved my point. MECHANICAL systems are the problem. NOT
electronic systems. For the record: The same engine in the Nissan
Skyline gave far fewer problems, thanks to superior cooling system
design in the Nissan.
Hate to break it to you. but the ignition system failures for which both the VL Commodore *and* the Skyline were *not* mechanical issues.
**I SPECIFICALLY addressed your claim of cooling system (cracked heads) issues. Purely mechanical and another failure from GMH design.
No, it isn't. Crank angle sensors are not a consumable, they are an ignition system component that gets replaced if and when they fail, and**An electro-mechnical device, if I'm not mistaken. Remember what I said about electro-mechanical systems?
on the VL Commy and Skyline they failed with *alarming* regularity.
Like I said: My Stagea was chocka-block full of sophisticated
electronics. Not one single problem with the electronic systems. Even
the very complex headlights (they run from 90 Volt modules). Mechanical faults were an issue, but no more so than any other Jap car.
And *again* you fail to grasp that your personal experience is *not* the average. That you had a trouble free run out of a VL Commodore is a
prime example of that.
Thousands of people did not.
**I'm sure that's the case. I was well aware of the head cracking
problems when I purchased the VL. I took steps to address the issue.
There are a number of reasons why cars fail today, and design is only
a part of it. The continual search for lower costs is a factor, as is
inadequate testing along with the increasingly stringent emissions
standards vehicles are expected to meet today. Many vehicles today
suffer from issues that are the result of nothing more than
components not being as durable as they should be. EGR valves are a
big problem today.
**Mechanical systems. Thanks for proving my point.
The failure point on most EGR valves is the electric actuator :)
**Electro-mechanical.
-a-a Oxygen sensors are a very common failure point.
**Consumable.
Oxygen sensors are *not* a consumable. They have no fixed replacement interval. They are changed when they fail, and they fail often.
**Most mechanics suggest O2 sensors be replaced at between 100,000 ~ 150,000km. Sounds about right, given the brutal extremes that the sensor
of exposed to.
FWIW: That distance is longer than the distance travelled
by my first two Escorts, before they died.
-a-a Cam and crank position sensors are famous
for random failures on many vehicles.
**Consumables. Hardly electronic devices.
You have no idea, do you? They *are* electronic devices, and they are *not* "consumables" :)
**They are electro-mechanical devices and as such, are subject to wear.
An AP6 Valiant didn't have a fly by wire throttle that randomly decided
to deck itself to the floor and stay there until the driver shut the engine off.
**The AP6 Valiant DID have a problem where the throttle would jam fully
on.
I recall my father arriving home after just such an incident. He was concerned. I will also add a correction. It was an AP5, not an AP6.
Anyway, he dumped the AP5 and 'updated' to a small V8 VE soon after. He considered it a safer car. I didn't. The VE was a death trap. By the
time the VE arrived, dad had purchased an EH. Except for power, the
gearbox, the EH was a much better resolved car. Much better 'round corners.
I genuinely suggest you do have a chat to him and get his perspective, because as far as I can tell you have an extreme case of tunnel vision where you think everyone else's experiences have been exactly the same
as yours.
You'll be surprised to hear what he has to say.
**I doubt that.
On 3/01/2026 8:05 am, Daryl wrote:
-a-aMy first Escort (1.3L) was headed for a major engine rebuild at
around 100,000km.
That is unusual, Kent engines are generally robust.
**Robust, yes. Mine was diagnosed as requiring a new set of valve
springs, along with a bunch of other stuff.
-a-aMy second Escort (1.6L pushrod) was a dud from day
one, but it was headed for the scrapyard at around 100,000km.
Also unusual.
**The 1.6L pushrod was a heap of shit. Barely made more power than the
1.3L, revved out to a pitiful 5,500RPM and Dieseled when turned off.
There was no cure. Ford had a kludge, which didn't work. All in all, the 1.6L pushrod was a profoundly disappointing car. Particularly, since I
had taken a 1.6L DOHC for a spin at the same time. WOW!
Also unusual because Pinto engines were just okay.
**185kph. Redlined in top gear. Brilliant thing. I had a bit of a race
with a GTV2000 once. I kept up with him, until 140kph, where he began to pull away. Not bad for a crappy old Escort. The 2L Escort desperately deserved a 5th cog. I could easily stay with my mate's 4.1L Cortina.
Until we hit a corner, of course. Then I left him for dead.
On 2/01/2026 9:03 pm, Noddy wrote:
Interesting, my RAV is an AWD, and there appears to be a spare right
there under the boot. I can take a picture of it if you like.
Lol :)
Reality shooting holes in his bullshit yet *again*. Jeez, you'd reckon
mental case would have learnt his lesson and had enough by now.... :)
Yet another basic English comprehension fail. Let me educate you.
"If it is AWD, likely no spare."
Key word *likely*.
Yet you incorrectly interpreted that as the absolute statement;
"If it is AWD, no spare."
Do you understand?
On 3/01/2026 11:39 am, Clocky wrote:
Come back keith!You said that you couldn't speak any English at the age of 9, well it
would appear that you can't understand it even today.
On 2/01/2026 6:46 pm, Noddy wrote:
Yeah, that's right. Like people who, when an intermittent fault with
an error code that cannot be retrieved can't get the fault to occur
when they're looking at the vehicle do a bit of lateral thinking and
swap parts around to see if the fault follows the swap the next time
it occurs which will positively identify the cause.
LOL, lateral thinking back to the 70's and all you know - part swapping
in hope and ignorance.
No goose, you failed to realise that an intermittent fault of that
nature can easily be diagnosed by a tool that you had in your arsenal -
and you literally said that you didn't even plug it in.
Noddy on April 15 2023 wrote;
"I never bothered plugging my scan tool in in the first place"
It's the equivalent of you having a box of metric spanners and
reaching for a gas-axe to undo an metric bolt on your Jeep because the
Imperial spanner you tried didn't fit.
You never did explain how long term fuel trim was going to diagnose a
single misfire several weeks previous.
On 3/01/2026 7:34 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
-a-a Oxygen sensors are a very common failure point.
**Consumable.
Oxygen sensors are *not* a consumable. They have no fixed replacement
interval. They are changed when they fail, and they fail often.
**Most mechanics suggest O2 sensors be replaced at between 100,000 ~
150,000km. Sounds about right, given the brutal extremes that the
sensor of exposed to.
Only the ones looking to sell you an unnecessary oxygen sensor
replacement :)
They are *not* a regular service item. Period.
On 3/01/2026 4:27 pm, keithr0 wrote:
On 3/01/2026 11:39 am, Clocky wrote:
Come back keith!You said that you couldn't speak any English at the age of 9, well it
would appear that you can't understand it even today.
Interesting how his bullshit starts to unravel when he slips up like
this :)
On 3/01/2026 12:54 pm, Clocky wrote:
On 2/01/2026 9:03 pm, Noddy wrote:
Interesting, my RAV is an AWD, and there appears to be a spare right
there under the boot. I can take a picture of it if you like.
Lol :)
Reality shooting holes in his bullshit yet *again*. Jeez, you'd
reckon mental case would have learnt his lesson and had enough by
now.... :)
Yet another basic English comprehension fail. Let me educate you.
"If it is AWD, likely no spare."
Key word *likely*.
Yet you incorrectly interpreted that as the absolute statement;
"If it is AWD, no spare."
Do you understand?
ROTFL :)
I love it when you get all high and mighty and correct the wrong person :)
On 3/01/2026 12:38 pm, Clocky wrote:
On 2/01/2026 6:46 pm, Noddy wrote:
Yeah, that's right. Like people who, when an intermittent fault with
an error code that cannot be retrieved can't get the fault to occur
when they're looking at the vehicle do a bit of lateral thinking and
swap parts around to see if the fault follows the swap the next time
it occurs which will positively identify the cause.
LOL, lateral thinking back to the 70's and all you know - part
swapping in hope and ignorance.
No goose, you failed to realise that an intermittent fault of that
nature can easily be diagnosed by a tool that you had in your arsenal
- and you literally said that you didn't even plug it in.
Noddy on April 15 2023 wrote;
"I never bothered plugging my scan tool in in the first place"
Yeah, that's right. I never bothered plugging a scan tool into the car because the fault code had been cleared the thing gone through the
minimum number of start cycles without it reoccurring which meant the
code had been permanently deleted, and despite your nonsensical claims
there was no hope of it ever being retrieved.
None. That's why I thought outside the box and did what I did, and it
proved to be a very successful idea.
On 3/1/2026 7:27 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On 3/01/2026 8:05 am, Daryl wrote:
On 2/1/2026 8:16 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 30/12/2025 9:55 am, Clocky wrote:
On 29/12/2025 5:49 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 29/12/2025 8:19 pm, Daryl wrote:
On 29/12/2025 6:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
A week ago last Friday, the car fairy paid a visit, and, like >>>>>>>> all good fairies, left a present - a RAV4.
It has only done one journey beyond the local area, a 25Km trip >>>>>>>> to our daughter's place for Xmas day, but the economy looks OK, >>>>>>>> usually in the low 5s, sometimes in the upper 4s. It's quite a >>>>>>>> change from the Mazda 3, apart from the driving position being >>>>>>>> significantly higher, things have moved on in the 10 years since >>>>>>>> we bought the M3.
Not necessarily for the better IMO, too much electronics to go
wrong, most of it is pretty reliable but can be a nightmare when >>>>>>> it isn't.
**Bullshit. Electronics, in general, have improved car reliability >>>>>> dramatically.
Absolute garbage. Most definitely not.
-a-aI cite the example of EFI as one that has VASTLY improved
almost every aspect of engine flexibility,
Yeah that was many decades ago now and did vastly improve
reliability but as time has gone on and countless modules and
systems have been introduced for superfluous bullshit reliability
has declined.
And that's not just electronics - cost reduction, emission control
systems, CRD and pushing engines to their limits etc have all
contributed to a decline in long term reliability.
**Bullshit. My FC Holden was pretty much buggered at around 100,000
miles.
Pretty much standard for those engines in those days.
-a-aMy first Escort (1.3L) was headed for a major engine rebuild at
around 100,000km.
That is unusual, Kent engines are generally robust.
**Robust, yes. Mine was diagnosed as requiring a new set of valve
springs, along with a bunch of other stuff.
Needing new valve springs at 100,00km says to me that the engine was
abused in that it was held at high rpm too often, its also hardly a
"major rebuild" its actually a simple job on those engines.
-a-aMy second Escort (1.6L pushrod) was a dud from day
one, but it was headed for the scrapyard at around 100,000km.
Also unusual.
**The 1.6L pushrod was a heap of shit. Barely made more power than the
1.3L, revved out to a pitiful 5,500RPM and Dieseled when turned off.
There was no cure. Ford had a kludge, which didn't work. All in all,
the 1.6L pushrod was a profoundly disappointing car. Particularly,
since I had taken a 1.6L DOHC for a spin at the same time. WOW!
Trying to remind what year that car would have been?
Late 70's early 80's?
If so that was around the time when emissions rules were new and many
car makers struggled to meet emissions and still make decent power, many lost power so not really the fault of the engine.
-a-aMy first
2L SOHC Escort was a bit special. It actually lasted quite well,
whilst proving me with huge enjoyment. Even at 100,000km, it was
happily revving past 7,000RPM. Until it was written off by an idiot
running a red.
Also unusual because Pinto engines were just okay.
**185kph. Redlined in top gear. Brilliant thing. I had a bit of a race
with a GTV2000 once. I kept up with him, until 140kph, where he began
to pull away. Not bad for a crappy old Escort. The 2L Escort
desperately deserved a 5th cog. I could easily stay with my mate's
4.1L Cortina. Until we hit a corner, of course. Then I left him for dead.
I had an RS2000 for a couple of weeks in the early 80's, my memory was
that it went rather well but compared to anything modern it was pretty
slow.
-a-aMy last Escort (2L) was a disappointment, but it lasted past
150,000km. I actually managed to sell it. Then my VH Commodore came
along. It lasted 175,000km before a complete engine swap (big
mistake - Higginbottom disaster). That engine lasted another
100,000km, before it died.
Typical Holden of the day, could have been worse, you could have
bought a VK piece of shit.
-a-aAfter that, my VL. Never gave me a minute's problems. Sold with
220,000km up. Then came my VP Commodore. Bits would fall off it andLOL, you think that that is remarkable some how:-)
the paint was, well, barely paint, but it was generally quite
reliable, until a tree branch (weighing an estimated 3 Tonnes)
killed it at around 250,000km. Then I drove my partner's Ford
Telstar. We sold it at 245,000km. It was running fine. I just
couldn't get the air-con fixed. Then my Nissan Stagea. I sold it at
245,000kms. I regularly receive texts from the purchaser, who is
clocking up big kms in it. He loves it. As did I. It was a quite
sophisticated car, electronically. Drive by wire, reversing camera,
GPS, auto folding and tilting mirrors, etc, etc.
All I can say is that cars are getting more reliable with each
purchase. My Subaru Levorg has not given me a millisecond's trouble
in 7 years. Of course, I've been using the same mechanic, or the guy
who trained under that mechanic for many years. I trust him/them to
ensure that my cars are reliable. In fact, when I purchased the VL,
he swapped out the radiator cap on day one for a Toyota(?!) unit.
**I mis-remembered. He swapped the radiator cap on my VP to prevent
the radiator from failing. It worked.
Sounds like a lower pressure cap which may have stopped the radiator
failing but it lowered the coolants boiling point which isn't a great
idea especially on a car notorious for cooling system issues.
On 3/01/2026 6:46 pm, Clocky wrote:
On 2/01/2026 5:16 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 30/12/2025 9:55 am, Clocky wrote:
On 29/12/2025 5:49 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 29/12/2025 8:19 pm, Daryl wrote:
On 29/12/2025 6:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
A week ago last Friday, the car fairy paid a visit, and, like all >>>>>>> good fairies, left a present - a RAV4.
It has only done one journey beyond the local area, a 25Km trip >>>>>>> to our daughter's place for Xmas day, but the economy looks OK, >>>>>>> usually in the low 5s, sometimes in the upper 4s. It's quite a
change from the Mazda 3, apart from the driving position being
significantly higher, things have moved on in the 10 years since >>>>>>> we bought the M3.
Not necessarily for the better IMO, too much electronics to go
wrong, most of it is pretty reliable but can be a nightmare when
it isn't.
**Bullshit. Electronics, in general, have improved car reliability
dramatically.
Absolute garbage. Most definitely not.
-a-aI cite the example of EFI as one that has VASTLY improved
almost every aspect of engine flexibility,
Yeah that was many decades ago now and did vastly improve
reliability but as time has gone on and countless modules and
systems have been introduced for superfluous bullshit reliability
has declined.
And that's not just electronics - cost reduction, emission control
systems, CRD and pushing engines to their limits etc have all
contributed to a decline in long term reliability.
**Bullshit. My FC Holden was pretty much buggered at around 100,000
miles. My first Escort (1.3L) was headed for a major engine rebuild
at around 100,000km. My second Escort (1.6L pushrod) was a dud from
day one, but it was headed for the scrapyard at around 100,000km. My
first 2L SOHC Escort was a bit special. It actually lasted quite
well, whilst proving me with huge enjoyment. Even at 100,000km, it
was happily revving past 7,000RPM. Until it was written off by an
idiot running a red. My last Escort (2L) was a disappointment, but it
lasted past 150,000km. I actually managed to sell it. Then my VH
Commodore came along. It lasted 175,000km before a complete engine
swap (big mistake - Higginbottom disaster). That engine lasted
another 100,000km, before it died. After that, my VL. Never gave me a
minute's problems.
Yeah which proves my point when I said EFI did vastly improve
reliability and that it was decades ago.
The VL was ~40 years ago and EFI. It had it's issues too.
Not the first Holden with EFI, that belongs to the VK and it's "black"
Holden 3.3L with Bosch Jetronic EFI option. Economy and power
improved, reliability, well not so much :-)
-a-aSold with
220,000km up. Then came my VP Commodore. Bits would fall off it and
the paint was, well, barely paint, but it was generally quite
reliable, until a tree branch (weighing an estimated 3 Tonnes) killed
it at around 250,000km.
Then I drove my partner's Ford Telstar. We sold it at
245,000km. It was running fine.
Early ones were shit.
**Yep. I drove an early one. It felt like a truck. My partner's one was
a 1989 model. A Ghia. It was a decent, comfortable, VERY reliable car.
Best of all, when the clutch master and slave cylinders needed
replacement, the total bill was around $600.00. At the same time my mate
did the same job in his Jeep Compass (which used VW running gear). That
cost him 3 Grand!
-a-aI just couldn't get the air-con fixed.
Then my Nissan Stagea. I sold it at 245,000kms. I regularly receive
texts from the purchaser, who is clocking up big kms in it. He loves
it. As did I. It was a quite sophisticated car, electronically. Drive
by wire, reversing camera, GPS, auto folding and tilting mirrors,
etc, etc.
Again, hardly new nor was it or anything special.
**The ONLY people who say that about the 2001 Nissan Stagea, are those
who have never driven one. Trust me: It was a very special car. Quick (enough), luxurious, feature laden and very good handling (51:49 weight distribution, AWD, independent suspension, etc, etc). Such a great car.
In fact, one of my customers spotted it out the front one day and
mentioned that he knew the car (which was unusual). I asked what he knew about it. He explained that he was married to a Japanese girl, whose
father owned one. I was stunned and asked: "He STILL OWNS one?" He
confirmed that was the case. VERY unusual in Japan, as it is very
expensive to keep an old car. He explained that his father-in-law owned
one back in the early 2000s, but sold it and moved to something else (I dunno what). He was so disappointed in the new car, then he tracked down
a good, used Stagea and bought it. Great car. Don't forget, back in
2001, they sold for something like 4.5 million Yen. Sold here, they
would likely have approached AUS$100,000.00. Think: Lexus quality.
All I can say is that cars are getting more reliable with each
purchase. My Subaru Levorg has not given me a millisecond's trouble
in 7 years. Of course, I've been using the same mechanic, or the guy
who trained under that mechanic for many years. I trust him/them to
ensure that my cars are reliable.
The can only assure that they are well maintained. Reliability can't
be assured.
**Of course. When I mentioned to my mechanic that I thought a Fiat 595
would make a nice weekend car, he screamed at me.
-aThere were many optimally maintained Subaru's that suffered
engine problems and CVT failures over fairly recent years.
**Sure. I've read the same stories. I will remind you that those
problems are mechanical ones and, I'm led to believe, that it is mostly
due to the lack of regular service to the gearbox.
The Eyesight system has also been a bit problematic under certain
conditions.
**Nope. Under EXTREMELY heavy rain or EXTREMELY heavy fog, the Eyesight system won't work. That is not a fault. It's a fact of life and is dealt with in the manual. Frankly, anyone who drives quickly under such
conditions and relies solely on instrumentation is a bit stupid, IMO. In
8 years of owning the Subaru, my Eyesight system has ceased working 4
times. Each time, it was VERY heavy rain or fog. It has never failed
under any other conditions. Even what you would consider to be heavy rainfall, it works fine. That said, I would like to see Subaru augment
the Eyesight system with radar.
-a-aIn fact, when I purchased the VL, he swapped out the
radiator cap on day one for a Toyota(?!) unit.
I can assure you that that did not reposition the radiator or engine
in the slightest :-)
**Correct. And, come to think of it, it was the VP that had the radiator
cap replaced. It was done to to prevent the constant radiator failures.
However, cracked heads in the VL is not the result of an electronics failure.
On 3/01/2026 4:27 pm, keithr0 wrote:
On 3/01/2026 11:39 am, Clocky wrote:
Come back keith!You said that you couldn't speak any English at the age of 9, well it
would appear that you can't understand it even today.
Interesting how his bullshit starts to unravel when he slips up like
this :)
He's exactly 10 years younger than I am, which means he'll be 53 on his
next birthday.
country and started school here when he was 9 without being able to
speak any English at all, which would make that around 1982.
Yet in previous times when desperately trying to exert his authority
into an argument, he claimed to have witnessed "Datsun 200B's rusting
away in holding yards" while they were new cars waiting for delivery.
The only problem here is that the 200B was sold in Australian between
1977 and 1981, and was done and dusted before he ever arrived here.
How odd :)
On 3/01/2026 4:16 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 3/01/2026 6:46 pm, Clocky wrote:
On 2/01/2026 5:16 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 30/12/2025 9:55 am, Clocky wrote:
On 29/12/2025 5:49 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 29/12/2025 8:19 pm, Daryl wrote:
On 29/12/2025 6:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
A week ago last Friday, the car fairy paid a visit, and, like >>>>>>>> all good fairies, left a present - a RAV4.
It has only done one journey beyond the local area, a 25Km trip >>>>>>>> to our daughter's place for Xmas day, but the economy looks OK, >>>>>>>> usually in the low 5s, sometimes in the upper 4s. It's quite a >>>>>>>> change from the Mazda 3, apart from the driving position being >>>>>>>> significantly higher, things have moved on in the 10 years since >>>>>>>> we bought the M3.
Not necessarily for the better IMO, too much electronics to go
wrong, most of it is pretty reliable but can be a nightmare when >>>>>>> it isn't.
**Bullshit. Electronics, in general, have improved car reliability >>>>>> dramatically.
Absolute garbage. Most definitely not.
-a-aI cite the example of EFI as one that has VASTLY improved
almost every aspect of engine flexibility,
Yeah that was many decades ago now and did vastly improve
reliability but as time has gone on and countless modules and
systems have been introduced for superfluous bullshit reliability
has declined.
And that's not just electronics - cost reduction, emission control
systems, CRD and pushing engines to their limits etc have all
contributed to a decline in long term reliability.
**Bullshit. My FC Holden was pretty much buggered at around 100,000
miles. My first Escort (1.3L) was headed for a major engine rebuild
at around 100,000km. My second Escort (1.6L pushrod) was a dud from
day one, but it was headed for the scrapyard at around 100,000km. My
first 2L SOHC Escort was a bit special. It actually lasted quite
well, whilst proving me with huge enjoyment. Even at 100,000km, it
was happily revving past 7,000RPM. Until it was written off by an
idiot running a red. My last Escort (2L) was a disappointment, but
it lasted past 150,000km. I actually managed to sell it. Then my VH
Commodore came along. It lasted 175,000km before a complete engine
swap (big mistake - Higginbottom disaster). That engine lasted
another 100,000km, before it died. After that, my VL. Never gave me
a minute's problems.
Yeah which proves my point when I said EFI did vastly improve
reliability and that it was decades ago.
The VL was ~40 years ago and EFI. It had it's issues too.
Not the first Holden with EFI, that belongs to the VK and it's
"black" Holden 3.3L with Bosch Jetronic EFI option. Economy and power
improved, reliability, well not so much :-)
-a-aSold with
220,000km up. Then came my VP Commodore. Bits would fall off it and
the paint was, well, barely paint, but it was generally quite
reliable, until a tree branch (weighing an estimated 3 Tonnes)
killed it at around 250,000km.
Then I drove my partner's Ford Telstar. We sold it at
245,000km. It was running fine.
Early ones were shit.
**Yep. I drove an early one. It felt like a truck. My partner's one
was a 1989 model. A Ghia. It was a decent, comfortable, VERY reliable
car. Best of all, when the clutch master and slave cylinders needed
replacement, the total bill was around $600.00. At the same time my
mate did the same job in his Jeep Compass (which used VW running
gear). That cost him 3 Grand!
1989 models were shit. Did a lot of head gasket on those.
-a-aI just couldn't get the air-con fixed.
Then my Nissan Stagea. I sold it at 245,000kms. I regularly receive
texts from the purchaser, who is clocking up big kms in it. He loves
it. As did I. It was a quite sophisticated car, electronically.
Drive by wire, reversing camera, GPS, auto folding and tilting
mirrors, etc, etc.
Again, hardly new nor was it or anything special.
**The ONLY people who say that about the 2001 Nissan Stagea, are those
who have never driven one. Trust me: It was a very special car. Quick
(enough), luxurious, feature laden and very good handling (51:49
weight distribution, AWD, independent suspension, etc, etc). Such a
great car. In fact, one of my customers spotted it out the front one
day and mentioned that he knew the car (which was unusual). I asked
what he knew about it. He explained that he was married to a Japanese
girl, whose father owned one. I was stunned and asked: "He STILL OWNS
one?" He confirmed that was the case. VERY unusual in Japan, as it is
very expensive to keep an old car. He explained that his father-in-law
owned one back in the early 2000s, but sold it and moved to something
else (I dunno what). He was so disappointed in the new car, then he
tracked down a good, used Stagea and bought it. Great car. Don't
forget, back in 2001, they sold for something like 4.5 million Yen.
Sold here, they would likely have approached AUS$100,000.00. Think:
Lexus quality.
Yeah a decent old car but again, nothing special. Did it have wing
mirrors and the rust that often accompanied them typical of Jap import vehicles?
All I can say is that cars are getting more reliable with each
purchase. My Subaru Levorg has not given me a millisecond's trouble
in 7 years. Of course, I've been using the same mechanic, or the guy
who trained under that mechanic for many years. I trust him/them to
ensure that my cars are reliable.
The can only assure that they are well maintained. Reliability can't
be assured.
**Of course. When I mentioned to my mechanic that I thought a Fiat 595
would make a nice weekend car, he screamed at me.
-a-aThere were many optimally maintained Subaru's that suffered
engine problems and CVT failures over fairly recent years.
**Sure. I've read the same stories. I will remind you that those
problems are mechanical ones and, I'm led to believe, that it is
mostly due to the lack of regular service to the gearbox.
Not at all. The CVT's had issues long before the service interval could
have played any part. They were just shit.
Ditto the engine problems.
The Eyesight system has also been a bit problematic under certain
conditions.
**Nope. Under EXTREMELY heavy rain or EXTREMELY heavy fog, the
Eyesight system won't work. That is not a fault. It's a fact of life
and is dealt with in the manual. Frankly, anyone who drives quickly
under such conditions and relies solely on instrumentation is a bit
stupid, IMO. In 8 years of owning the Subaru, my Eyesight system has
ceased working 4 times. Each time, it was VERY heavy rain or fog. It
has never failed under any other conditions. Even what you would
consider to be heavy rainfall, it works fine. That said, I would like
to see Subaru augment the Eyesight system with radar.
Afraid not Trev.
https://www.eyesightsettlement.com/
-a-aIn fact, when I purchased the VL, he swapped out the
radiator cap on day one for a Toyota(?!) unit.
I can assure you that that did not reposition the radiator or engine
in the slightest :-)
**Correct. And, come to think of it, it was the VP that had the
radiator cap replaced. It was done to to prevent the constant radiator
failures.
Nope, there were no widespread radiator failures on VP let alone that
could be prevented with a cap change.
Are you sure you didn't own a Falcon?
However, cracked heads in the VL is not the result of an electronics
failure.
CAS and coil failures leaving people stranded OTOH...
On 03-Jan-26 9:17 PM, Daryl wrote:
Needing new valve springs at 100,00km says to me that the engine was~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
abused in that it was held at high rpm too often, its also hardly a
"major rebuild" its actually a simple job on those engines.
-aYes engine abuse!. I got the impression from his
-arecent posts that Mechanical empathy is *not* something that Trevor is/was Au Fait with!.
-a-a-a-a-a Playing boy racer as he valve bounced his way around the countryside..;) >
On 3/01/2026 7:05 pm, Noddy wrote:
Yet in previous times when desperately trying to exert his authority
into an argument, he claimed to have witnessed "Datsun 200B's rusting
away in holding yards" while they were new cars waiting for delivery.
Bzzzzt. Are you sure I said I "witnessed" it? I could have witnessed for more than one reason but are you sure I actually said that or are you fabricating that part?
Noddy wrote:
On 3/01/2026 12:38 pm, Clocky wrote:
On 2/01/2026 6:46 pm, Noddy wrote:
Yeah, that's right. Like people who, when an intermittent fault with
an error code that cannot be retrieved can't get the fault to occur
when they're looking at the vehicle do a bit of lateral thinking and
swap parts around to see if the fault follows the swap the next time
it occurs which will positively identify the cause.
LOL, lateral thinking back to the 70's and all you know - part
swapping in hope and ignorance.
No goose, you failed to realise that an intermittent fault of that
nature can easily be diagnosed by a tool that you had in your arsenal
- and you literally said that you didn't even plug it in.
Noddy on April 15 2023 wrote;
"I never bothered plugging my scan tool in in the first place"
Yeah, that's right. I never bothered plugging a scan tool into the car
because the fault code had been cleared the thing gone through the
minimum number of start cycles without it reoccurring which meant the
code had been permanently deleted, and despite your nonsensical claims
there was no hope of it ever being retrieved.
None. That's why I thought outside the box and did what I did, and it
proved to be a very successful idea.
You forgot something at the beginning Fraudster. You know, "Once upon a time..."
hth
Noddy wrote:
On 3/01/2026 12:54 pm, Clocky wrote:
On 2/01/2026 9:03 pm, Noddy wrote:
Interesting, my RAV is an AWD, and there appears to be a spare
right there under the boot. I can take a picture of it if you like.
Lol :)
Reality shooting holes in his bullshit yet *again*. Jeez, you'd
reckon mental case would have learnt his lesson and had enough by
now.... :)
Yet another basic English comprehension fail. Let me educate you.
"If it is AWD, likely no spare."
Key word *likely*.
Yet you incorrectly interpreted that as the absolute statement;
"If it is AWD, no spare."
Do you understand?
ROTFL :)
I love it when you get all high and mighty and correct the wrong
person :)
Whereas the unintended humour of your feeble attempts at evasion has
long since left the building.
On 4/01/2026 11:41 am, Clocky wrote:
On 3/01/2026 7:05 pm, Noddy wrote:
Yet in previous times when desperately trying to exert his authority
into an argument, he claimed to have witnessed "Datsun 200B's rusting
away in holding yards" while they were new cars waiting for delivery.
Bzzzzt. Are you sure I said I "witnessed" it? I could have witnessed
for more than one reason but are you sure I actually said that or are
you fabricating that part?
Forget it Jerky. Your bullshit has been noted. Just like how you
squeeled when trying to claim you never said you used straps to hold unbalanced cars on hoists, until your mental mate threw you a life saver.
On 2/01/2026 9:24 pm, Noddy wrote:
On 2/01/2026 7:52 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 30/12/2025 10:46 am, Noddy wrote:
Not at all. I still own vehicles that have points ignition systems
and carburettors. They're generally not anywhere near as problematic
as you make them out to be,
**Yes, they are.
No Trevor, they are not.**Of course they are. I have NEVER had an issue with the ignition on any
EFI equipped car I've owned. OTOH, I have adjusted/replaced points many times.
On 3/01/2026 4:16 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 3/01/2026 6:46 pm, Clocky wrote:
On 2/01/2026 5:16 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 30/12/2025 9:55 am, Clocky wrote:
On 29/12/2025 5:49 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 29/12/2025 8:19 pm, Daryl wrote:
On 29/12/2025 6:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
A week ago last Friday, the car fairy paid a visit, and, like >>>>>>>> all good fairies, left a present - a RAV4.
It has only done one journey beyond the local area, a 25Km trip >>>>>>>> to our daughter's place for Xmas day, but the economy looks OK, >>>>>>>> usually in the low 5s, sometimes in the upper 4s. It's quite a >>>>>>>> change from the Mazda 3, apart from the driving position being >>>>>>>> significantly higher, things have moved on in the 10 years since >>>>>>>> we bought the M3.
Not necessarily for the better IMO, too much electronics to go
wrong, most of it is pretty reliable but can be a nightmare when >>>>>>> it isn't.
**Bullshit. Electronics, in general, have improved car reliability >>>>>> dramatically.
Absolute garbage. Most definitely not.
-a-aI cite the example of EFI as one that has VASTLY improved
almost every aspect of engine flexibility,
Yeah that was many decades ago now and did vastly improve
reliability but as time has gone on and countless modules and
systems have been introduced for superfluous bullshit reliability
has declined.
And that's not just electronics - cost reduction, emission control
systems, CRD and pushing engines to their limits etc have all
contributed to a decline in long term reliability.
**Bullshit. My FC Holden was pretty much buggered at around 100,000
miles. My first Escort (1.3L) was headed for a major engine rebuild
at around 100,000km. My second Escort (1.6L pushrod) was a dud from
day one, but it was headed for the scrapyard at around 100,000km. My
first 2L SOHC Escort was a bit special. It actually lasted quite
well, whilst proving me with huge enjoyment. Even at 100,000km, it
was happily revving past 7,000RPM. Until it was written off by an
idiot running a red. My last Escort (2L) was a disappointment, but
it lasted past 150,000km. I actually managed to sell it. Then my VH
Commodore came along. It lasted 175,000km before a complete engine
swap (big mistake - Higginbottom disaster). That engine lasted
another 100,000km, before it died. After that, my VL. Never gave me
a minute's problems.
Yeah which proves my point when I said EFI did vastly improve
reliability and that it was decades ago.
The VL was ~40 years ago and EFI. It had it's issues too.
Not the first Holden with EFI, that belongs to the VK and it's
"black" Holden 3.3L with Bosch Jetronic EFI option. Economy and power
improved, reliability, well not so much :-)
-a-aSold with
220,000km up. Then came my VP Commodore. Bits would fall off it and
the paint was, well, barely paint, but it was generally quite
reliable, until a tree branch (weighing an estimated 3 Tonnes)
killed it at around 250,000km.
Then I drove my partner's Ford Telstar. We sold it at
245,000km. It was running fine.
Early ones were shit.
**Yep. I drove an early one. It felt like a truck. My partner's one
was a 1989 model. A Ghia. It was a decent, comfortable, VERY reliable
car. Best of all, when the clutch master and slave cylinders needed
replacement, the total bill was around $600.00. At the same time my
mate did the same job in his Jeep Compass (which used VW running
gear). That cost him 3 Grand!
1989 models were shit. Did a lot of head gasket on those.
-a-aI just couldn't get the air-con fixed.
Then my Nissan Stagea. I sold it at 245,000kms. I regularly receive
texts from the purchaser, who is clocking up big kms in it. He loves
it. As did I. It was a quite sophisticated car, electronically.
Drive by wire, reversing camera, GPS, auto folding and tilting
mirrors, etc, etc.
Again, hardly new nor was it or anything special.
**The ONLY people who say that about the 2001 Nissan Stagea, are those
who have never driven one. Trust me: It was a very special car. Quick
(enough), luxurious, feature laden and very good handling (51:49
weight distribution, AWD, independent suspension, etc, etc). Such a
great car. In fact, one of my customers spotted it out the front one
day and mentioned that he knew the car (which was unusual). I asked
what he knew about it. He explained that he was married to a Japanese
girl, whose father owned one. I was stunned and asked: "He STILL OWNS
one?" He confirmed that was the case. VERY unusual in Japan, as it is
very expensive to keep an old car. He explained that his father-in-law
owned one back in the early 2000s, but sold it and moved to something
else (I dunno what). He was so disappointed in the new car, then he
tracked down a good, used Stagea and bought it. Great car. Don't
forget, back in 2001, they sold for something like 4.5 million Yen.
Sold here, they would likely have approached AUS$100,000.00. Think:
Lexus quality.
Yeah a decent old car but again, nothing special. Did it have wing
mirrors and the rust that often accompanied them typical of Jap import vehicles?
All I can say is that cars are getting more reliable with each
purchase. My Subaru Levorg has not given me a millisecond's trouble
in 7 years. Of course, I've been using the same mechanic, or the guy
who trained under that mechanic for many years. I trust him/them to
ensure that my cars are reliable.
The can only assure that they are well maintained. Reliability can't
be assured.
**Of course. When I mentioned to my mechanic that I thought a Fiat 595
would make a nice weekend car, he screamed at me.
-a-aThere were many optimally maintained Subaru's that suffered
engine problems and CVT failures over fairly recent years.
**Sure. I've read the same stories. I will remind you that those
problems are mechanical ones and, I'm led to believe, that it is
mostly due to the lack of regular service to the gearbox.
Not at all. The CVT's had issues long before the service interval could
have played any part. They were just shit.
Ditto the engine problems.
The Eyesight system has also been a bit problematic under certain
conditions.
**Nope. Under EXTREMELY heavy rain or EXTREMELY heavy fog, the
Eyesight system won't work. That is not a fault. It's a fact of life
and is dealt with in the manual. Frankly, anyone who drives quickly
under such conditions and relies solely on instrumentation is a bit
stupid, IMO. In 8 years of owning the Subaru, my Eyesight system has
ceased working 4 times. Each time, it was VERY heavy rain or fog. It
has never failed under any other conditions. Even what you would
consider to be heavy rainfall, it works fine. That said, I would like
to see Subaru augment the Eyesight system with radar.
Afraid not Trev.
https://www.eyesightsettlement.com/
-a-aIn fact, when I purchased the VL, he swapped out the
radiator cap on day one for a Toyota(?!) unit.
I can assure you that that did not reposition the radiator or engine
in the slightest :-)
**Correct. And, come to think of it, it was the VP that had the
radiator cap replaced. It was done to to prevent the constant radiator
failures.
Nope, there were no widespread radiator failures on VP let alone that
could be prevented with a cap change.
Are you sure you didn't own a Falcon?
However, cracked heads in the VL is not the result of an electronics
failure.
CAS and coil failures leaving people stranded OTOH...
On 4/01/2026 10:19 am, jonz wrote:
On 03-Jan-26 9:17 PM, Daryl wrote:
Needing new valve springs at 100,00km says to me that the engine was~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
abused in that it was held at high rpm too often, its also hardly a
"major rebuild" its actually a simple job on those engines.
-a-aYes engine abuse!. I got the impression from his
-a-arecent posts that Mechanical empathy is *not* something that Trevor
is/was Au Fait with!.
-a-a-a-a-a-a Playing boy racer as he valve bounced his way around the
countryside..;) >
Lol :)
I think he commented that one of his Escorts would see 7500rpm, and if
so we can see what the consequence of that was :)
On 3/1/2026 7:27 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 3/01/2026 8:05 am, Daryl wrote:
On 2/1/2026 8:16 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 30/12/2025 9:55 am, Clocky wrote:
On 29/12/2025 5:49 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 29/12/2025 8:19 pm, Daryl wrote:
On 29/12/2025 6:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
A week ago last Friday, the car fairy paid a visit, and, like >>>>>>>> all good fairies, left a present - a RAV4.
It has only done one journey beyond the local area, a 25Km trip >>>>>>>> to our daughter's place for Xmas day, but the economy looks OK, >>>>>>>> usually in the low 5s, sometimes in the upper 4s. It's quite a >>>>>>>> change from the Mazda 3, apart from the driving position being >>>>>>>> significantly higher, things have moved on in the 10 years since >>>>>>>> we bought the M3.
Not necessarily for the better IMO, too much electronics to go
wrong, most of it is pretty reliable but can be a nightmare when >>>>>>> it isn't.
**Bullshit. Electronics, in general, have improved car reliability >>>>>> dramatically.
Absolute garbage. Most definitely not.
-a-aI cite the example of EFI as one that has VASTLY improved
almost every aspect of engine flexibility,
Yeah that was many decades ago now and did vastly improve
reliability but as time has gone on and countless modules and
systems have been introduced for superfluous bullshit reliability
has declined.
And that's not just electronics - cost reduction, emission control
systems, CRD and pushing engines to their limits etc have all
contributed to a decline in long term reliability.
**Bullshit. My FC Holden was pretty much buggered at around 100,000
miles.
Pretty much standard for those engines in those days.
-a-aMy first Escort (1.3L) was headed for a major engine rebuild at
around 100,000km.
That is unusual, Kent engines are generally robust.
**Robust, yes. Mine was diagnosed as requiring a new set of valve
springs, along with a bunch of other stuff.
Needing new valve springs at 100,00km says to me that the engine was
abused in that it was held at high rpm too often, its also hardly a
"major rebuild" its actually a simple job on those engines.
-a-aMy second Escort (1.6L pushrod) was a dud from day
one, but it was headed for the scrapyard at around 100,000km.
Also unusual.
**The 1.6L pushrod was a heap of shit. Barely made more power than the
1.3L, revved out to a pitiful 5,500RPM and Dieseled when turned off.
There was no cure. Ford had a kludge, which didn't work. All in all,
the 1.6L pushrod was a profoundly disappointing car. Particularly,
since I had taken a 1.6L DOHC for a spin at the same time. WOW!
Trying to remind what year that car would have been?
Late 70's early 80's?
If so that was around the time when emissions rules were new and many
car makers struggled to meet emissions and still make decent power, many lost power so not really the fault of the engine.
-a-aMy first
2L SOHC Escort was a bit special. It actually lasted quite well,
whilst proving me with huge enjoyment. Even at 100,000km, it was
happily revving past 7,000RPM. Until it was written off by an idiot
running a red.
Also unusual because Pinto engines were just okay.
**185kph. Redlined in top gear. Brilliant thing. I had a bit of a race
with a GTV2000 once. I kept up with him, until 140kph, where he began
to pull away. Not bad for a crappy old Escort. The 2L Escort
desperately deserved a 5th cog. I could easily stay with my mate's
4.1L Cortina. Until we hit a corner, of course. Then I left him for dead.
I had an RS2000 for a couple of weeks in the early 80's, my memory was
that it went rather well but compared to anything modern it was pretty
slow.
-a-aMy last Escort (2L) was a disappointment, but it lasted past
150,000km. I actually managed to sell it. Then my VH Commodore came
along. It lasted 175,000km before a complete engine swap (big
mistake - Higginbottom disaster). That engine lasted another
100,000km, before it died.
Typical Holden of the day, could have been worse, you could have
bought a VK piece of shit.
-a-aAfter that, my VL. Never gave me a minute's problems. Sold with
220,000km up. Then came my VP Commodore. Bits would fall off it andLOL, you think that that is remarkable some how:-)
the paint was, well, barely paint, but it was generally quite
reliable, until a tree branch (weighing an estimated 3 Tonnes)
killed it at around 250,000km. Then I drove my partner's Ford
Telstar. We sold it at 245,000km. It was running fine. I just
couldn't get the air-con fixed. Then my Nissan Stagea. I sold it at
245,000kms. I regularly receive texts from the purchaser, who is
clocking up big kms in it. He loves it. As did I. It was a quite
sophisticated car, electronically. Drive by wire, reversing camera,
GPS, auto folding and tilting mirrors, etc, etc.
All I can say is that cars are getting more reliable with each
purchase. My Subaru Levorg has not given me a millisecond's trouble
in 7 years. Of course, I've been using the same mechanic, or the guy
who trained under that mechanic for many years. I trust him/them to
ensure that my cars are reliable. In fact, when I purchased the VL,
he swapped out the radiator cap on day one for a Toyota(?!) unit.
**I mis-remembered. He swapped the radiator cap on my VP to prevent
the radiator from failing. It worked.
Sounds like a lower pressure cap which may have stopped the radiator
failing but it lowered the coolants boiling point which isn't a great
idea especially on a car notorious for cooling system issues.
On 4/01/2026 11:07 am, Clocky wrote:
1989 models were shit. Did a lot of head gasket on those.
**I guess we were lucky.
On 3/01/2026 4:34 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
EFI *specifically* made cars more reliable, more efficient and more
powerful (though some of the very early EFI systems also had reliability issues).
However, to broadly suggest that mechanical distributors, points, low
energy ignition systems and carbs were just as reliable as EFI is
laughable.
On 4/01/2026 12:34 pm, Noddy wrote:
I think he commented that one of his Escorts would see 7500rpm, and if
so we can see what the consequence of that was :)
**It provided me with many years of enjoyable motoring, until it was
written off by an idiot running a red. It was fortunate that I wasn't carrying a passenger. My next 2L Escort was no where near as good.
On 3/01/2026 8:52 pm, alvey wrote:
100%. It's the biggest load of fucking cope he's ever posted.
He had absolutely no idea what he was doing and his story makes
absolutely no sense at all which gives weight to the theory that he made
up a scenario where he thought he could play the hero without realising
that what he posted only made him look grossly incompetent.
On 4/01/2026 8:33 pm, Clocky wrote:
On 3/01/2026 4:34 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
EFI *specifically* made cars more reliable, more efficient and more
powerful (though some of the very early EFI systems also had
reliability issues).
However, to broadly suggest that mechanical distributors, points, low
energy ignition systems and carbs were just as reliable as EFI is
laughable.
You wouldn't know Junior. They are before your time :)
On 4/01/2026 8:48 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 4/01/2026 11:07 am, Clocky wrote:
1989 models were shit. Did a lot of head gasket on those.
**I guess we were lucky.
I keep telling ya lies :)
On 4/01/2026 12:38 pm, Clocky wrote:
On 3/01/2026 8:52 pm, alvey wrote:
100%. It's the biggest load of fucking cope he's ever posted.
He had absolutely no idea what he was doing and his story makes
absolutely no sense at all which gives weight to the theory that he
made up a scenario where he thought he could play the hero without
realising that what he posted only made him look grossly incompetent.
Makes no sense at all, huh? So the idea of swapping a a known good part
for a suspected flaky one, which is a recommended procedure in many
factory shop manuals, makes no sense to you?
Yeah. sorry, I forgot. You're the fucking idiot who can't blow an air cleaner element out with compressed air without fucking it, and instead insist that banging one on a workbench is the only "safe" way to clean one.
I can't imagine anyone more utterly *clueless* than you are.
Bzzzzt. Another comprehension failure on your part. I said I couldn't
speak a word of English when I was 9. I didn't say I was 9 when I
started school here and it wasn't 1982 anyway.
On 4/01/2026 10:41 am, Clocky wrote:
Bzzzzt. Another comprehension failure on your part. I said I couldn't
speak a word of English when I was 9. I didn't say I was 9 when I
started school here and it wasn't 1982 anyway.
That seems odd, I've visited the land of your birth several times, and
have rarely met anybody who couldn't speak English. I've asked a couple
of them why that is, the answer always was that they started learning it
as soon as they started school. So, I would have thought that, unless
you were particularly thick, you'd have at least a basic understanding
of English after at least 3 years of school.
Noddy wrote:
On 4/01/2026 12:38 pm, Clocky wrote:
On 3/01/2026 8:52 pm, alvey wrote:
100%. It's the biggest load of fucking cope he's ever posted.
He had absolutely no idea what he was doing and his story makes
absolutely no sense at all which gives weight to the theory that he
made up a scenario where he thought he could play the hero without
realising that what he posted only made him look grossly incompetent.
Makes no sense at all, huh? So the idea of swapping a a known good
part for a suspected flaky one, which is a recommended procedure in
many factory shop manuals, makes no sense to you?
Yeah. sorry, I forgot. You're the fucking idiot who can't blow an air
cleaner element out with compressed air without fucking it, and
instead insist that banging one on a workbench is the only "safe" way
to clean one.
I can't imagine anyone more utterly *clueless* than you are.
Which is seriously odd considering that you *can* imagine yourself as a successful business owner, qualified spanner user, hard man, drag racer, Grange owner, Guitar owning muso, pub bouncer etc etc etc.
On 4/01/2026 10:14 pm, keithr0 wrote:
On 4/01/2026 10:41 am, Clocky wrote:
Bzzzzt. Another comprehension failure on your part. I said I couldn't
speak a word of English when I was 9. I didn't say I was 9 when I
started school here and it wasn't 1982 anyway.
That seems odd, I've visited the land of your birth several times, and
have rarely met anybody who couldn't speak English. I've asked a
couple of them why that is, the answer always was that they started
learning it as soon as they started school. So, I would have thought
that, unless you were particularly thick, you'd have at least a basic
understanding of English after at least 3 years of school.
It's getting to the point where you can't believe a word the bloke says.
Just like his mental mate.
Must be something about the Dutch :)
On 4/01/2026 8:52 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 4/01/2026 12:34 pm, Noddy wrote:
I think he commented that one of his Escorts would see 7500rpm, and
if so we can see what the consequence of that was :)
**It provided me with many years of enjoyable motoring, until it was
written off by an idiot running a red. It was fortunate that I wasn't
carrying a passenger. My next 2L Escort was no where near as good.
The point being Trev that *that* kind of use is well beyond the normal operating range of the engine, and things like valve spring failure is a consequence of it.
The Kent engine was a great little engine, but it was never designed to
see 7500rpm out of the box in *any* of it's forms.
On 4/01/2026 10:14 pm, keithr0 wrote:
On 4/01/2026 10:41 am, Clocky wrote:
Bzzzzt. Another comprehension failure on your part. I said I couldn't
speak a word of English when I was 9. I didn't say I was 9 when I
started school here and it wasn't 1982 anyway.
That seems odd, I've visited the land of your birth several times, and
have rarely met anybody who couldn't speak English. I've asked a
couple of them why that is, the answer always was that they started
learning it as soon as they started school. So, I would have thought
that, unless you were particularly thick, you'd have at least a basic
understanding of English after at least 3 years of school.
It's getting to the point where you can't believe a word the bloke says. Just like his mental mate.
Must be something about the Dutch :)
On 4/01/2026 9:34 pm, Noddy wrote:
The Kent engine was a great little engine, but it was never designed
to see 7500rpm out of the box in *any* of it's forms.
**Try reading what I wrote. I NEVER claimed that I ran my 1.3L Escort to 7,500RPM. AFAIK, such a thing would be impossible without significant
engine changes.
On 5/01/2026 6:04 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 4/01/2026 9:34 pm, Noddy wrote:
The Kent engine was a great little engine, but it was never designed
to see 7500rpm out of the box in *any* of it's forms.
**Try reading what I wrote. I NEVER claimed that I ran my 1.3L Escort
to 7,500RPM. AFAIK, such a thing would be impossible without
significant engine changes.
Sorry Trev, but I thought you mentioned revving the ring out of your
Escorts and complained about the 1.6 not being able to do so. Either
way, valve spring failure is a result of *someone* kicking the crap out
of the engine, and it's a little unfair to blame the engine for that.
On 5/01/2026 6:04 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 4/01/2026 9:34 pm, Noddy wrote:
The Kent engine was a great little engine, but it was never designed
to see 7500rpm out of the box in *any* of it's forms.
**Try reading what I wrote. I NEVER claimed that I ran my 1.3L Escort
to 7,500RPM. AFAIK, such a thing would be impossible without
significant engine changes.
Sorry Trev, but I thought you mentioned revving the ring out of your
Escorts and complained about the 1.6 not being able to do so. Either
way, valve spring failure is a result of *someone* kicking the crap out
of the engine, and it's a little unfair to blame the engine for that.
On 5/01/2026 7:53 am, Noddy wrote:
On 5/01/2026 6:04 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 4/01/2026 9:34 pm, Noddy wrote:
The Kent engine was a great little engine, but it was never designed
to see 7500rpm out of the box in *any* of it's forms.
**Try reading what I wrote. I NEVER claimed that I ran my 1.3L Escort
to 7,500RPM. AFAIK, such a thing would be impossible without
significant engine changes.
Sorry Trev, but I thought you mentioned revving the ring out of your
Escorts and complained about the 1.6 not being able to do so. Either
way, valve spring failure is a result of *someone* kicking the crap
out of the engine, and it's a little unfair to blame the engine for that.
**I don't blame the engine at all. I know that I drove my little Escort hard. A mate ran his harder. The engine lasted around 35,000 miles.
On 3/01/2026 8:52 pm, alvey wrote:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Noddy wrote:
On 3/01/2026 12:38 pm, Clocky wrote:
On 2/01/2026 6:46 pm, Noddy wrote:
Yeah, that's right. Like people who, when an intermittent fault
with an error code that cannot be retrieved can't get the fault to
occur when they're looking at the vehicle do a bit of lateral
thinking and swap parts around to see if the fault follows the swap >>>>> the next time it occurs which will positively identify the cause.
LOL, lateral thinking back to the 70's and all you know - part
swapping in hope and ignorance.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
No goose, you failed to realise that an intermittent fault of that
nature can easily be diagnosed by a tool that you had in your
arsenal - and you literally said that you didn't even plug it in.
Noddy on April 15 2023 wrote;
"I never bothered plugging my scan tool in in the first place"
Yeah, that's right. I never bothered plugging a scan tool into the
car because the fault code had been cleared the thing gone through
the minimum number of start cycles without it reoccurring which meant
the code had been permanently deleted, and despite your nonsensical
claims there was no hope of it ever being retrieved.
None. That's why I thought outside the box and did what I did, and it
proved to be a very successful idea.
You forgot something at the beginning Fraudster. You know, "Once upon
a time..."
hth
100%. It's the biggest load of fucking cope he's ever posted.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
He had absolutely no idea what he was doing and his story makes~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
absolutely no sense at all which gives weight to the theory that he made
up a scenario where he thought he could play the hero without realising
that what he posted only made him look grossly incompetent.
car because the fault code had been cleared the thing gone through
the minimum number of start cycles without it reoccurring which meant
the code had been permanently deleted, and despite your nonsensical
claims there was no hope of it ever being retrieved."
The moron thinks Tech 2 isn't an OBD-II scanner FFS... *anyone* can
verify that as a statement of pure ignorance.
Noddy wrote:
On 4/01/2026 10:14 pm, keithr0 wrote:
On 4/01/2026 10:41 am, Clocky wrote:
Bzzzzt. Another comprehension failure on your part. I said I
couldn't speak a word of English when I was 9. I didn't say I was 9
when I started school here and it wasn't 1982 anyway.
That seems odd, I've visited the land of your birth several times,
and have rarely met anybody who couldn't speak English. I've asked a
couple of them why that is, the answer always was that they started
learning it as soon as they started school. So, I would have thought
that, unless you were particularly thick, you'd have at least a basic
understanding of English after at least 3 years of school.
It's getting to the point where you can't believe a word the bloke
says. Just like his mental mate.
Must be something about the Dutch :)
And something about you pair is that you are both lazy and stupid.
So because Retcho allegedly got told something by a couple of clog-wogs
in the street then that's conclusive proof of the Dutch education
system. Jaysus wept! You pair are ridiculous.
Fyi, Mr AI says that "English is routinely taught in Dutch primary
schools, with a legal requirement for it to start by group 7 (around age 10-11)...".
Well played boys.
On 4/01/2026 9:34 pm, Noddy wrote:
On 4/01/2026 8:52 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 4/01/2026 12:34 pm, Noddy wrote:
I think he commented that one of his Escorts would see 7500rpm, and
if so we can see what the consequence of that was :)
**It provided me with many years of enjoyable motoring, until it was
written off by an idiot running a red. It was fortunate that I wasn't
carrying a passenger. My next 2L Escort was no where near as good.
The point being Trev that *that* kind of use is well beyond the normal
operating range of the engine, and things like valve spring failure is
a consequence of it.
The Kent engine was a great little engine, but it was never designed
to see 7500rpm out of the box in *any* of it's forms.
**Try reading what I wrote. I NEVER claimed that I ran my 1.3L Escort to 7,500RPM. AFAIK, such a thing would be impossible without significant
engine changes.
On 5/01/2026 11:40 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 5/01/2026 7:53 am, Noddy wrote:
On 5/01/2026 6:04 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 4/01/2026 9:34 pm, Noddy wrote:
The Kent engine was a great little engine, but it was never
designed to see 7500rpm out of the box in *any* of it's forms.
**Try reading what I wrote. I NEVER claimed that I ran my 1.3L
Escort to 7,500RPM. AFAIK, such a thing would be impossible without
significant engine changes.
Sorry Trev, but I thought you mentioned revving the ring out of your
Escorts and complained about the 1.6 not being able to do so. Either
way, valve spring failure is a result of *someone* kicking the crap
out of the engine, and it's a little unfair to blame the engine for
that.
**I don't blame the engine at all. I know that I drove my little
Escort hard. A mate ran his harder. The engine lasted around 35,000
miles.
That tends to happen when you push machinery way past the boundaries of
it's intended use. The interesting bit is that you cited your Escorts as examples of older cars being less reliable, but it's becoming clear that
the reason for their relative unreliability was the person behind the
wheel and not the machines themselves :)
On 3/01/2026 9:17 pm, Daryl wrote:
On 3/1/2026 7:27 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 3/01/2026 8:05 am, Daryl wrote:
On 2/1/2026 8:16 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 30/12/2025 9:55 am, Clocky wrote:
On 29/12/2025 5:49 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 29/12/2025 8:19 pm, Daryl wrote:
On 29/12/2025 6:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
A week ago last Friday, the car fairy paid a visit, and, like >>>>>>>>> all good fairies, left a present - a RAV4.
It has only done one journey beyond the local area, a 25Km trip >>>>>>>>> to our daughter's place for Xmas day, but the economy looks OK, >>>>>>>>> usually in the low 5s, sometimes in the upper 4s. It's quite a >>>>>>>>> change from the Mazda 3, apart from the driving position being >>>>>>>>> significantly higher, things have moved on in the 10 years
since we bought the M3.
Not necessarily for the better IMO, too much electronics to go >>>>>>>> wrong, most of it is pretty reliable but can be a nightmare when >>>>>>>> it isn't.
**Bullshit. Electronics, in general, have improved car
reliability dramatically.
Absolute garbage. Most definitely not.
-a-aI cite the example of EFI as one that has VASTLY improved
almost every aspect of engine flexibility,
Yeah that was many decades ago now and did vastly improve
reliability but as time has gone on and countless modules and
systems have been introduced for superfluous bullshit reliability >>>>>> has declined.
And that's not just electronics - cost reduction, emission control >>>>>> systems, CRD and pushing engines to their limits etc have all
contributed to a decline in long term reliability.
**Bullshit. My FC Holden was pretty much buggered at around 100,000 >>>>> miles.
Pretty much standard for those engines in those days.
-a-aMy first Escort (1.3L) was headed for a major engine rebuild at
around 100,000km.
That is unusual, Kent engines are generally robust.
**Robust, yes. Mine was diagnosed as requiring a new set of valve
springs, along with a bunch of other stuff.
Needing new valve springs at 100,00km says to me that the engine was
abused in that it was held at high rpm too often, its also hardly a
"major rebuild" its actually a simple job on those engines.
**Very likely, but the car was well past it's use-by date in many areas.
-a-aMy second Escort (1.6L pushrod) was a dud from day
one, but it was headed for the scrapyard at around 100,000km.
Also unusual.
**The 1.6L pushrod was a heap of shit. Barely made more power than
the 1.3L, revved out to a pitiful 5,500RPM and Dieseled when turned
off. There was no cure. Ford had a kludge, which didn't work. All in
all, the 1.6L pushrod was a profoundly disappointing car.
Particularly, since I had taken a 1.6L DOHC for a spin at the same
time. WOW!
Trying to remind what year that car would have been?
Late 70's early 80's?
**1976.
If so that was around the time when emissions rules were new and many
car makers struggled to meet emissions and still make decent power,
many lost power so not really the fault of the engine. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
**Yes, it was. It was a dog of an engine. Ford knew it, but sold them anyway. I recall buying a service manual for the car to see what was
going on. The manual covered the 1.6L and the 2L. The number of pipes
and shit in the 1.6L dwarfed what was in the 2L. It seems that the 2L
was an inherently cleaner running engine, as it didn't require all the kludges fitted by Ford to make it compliant. The 2L was more economical
than the 1.6L too.
-a-aMy first
2L SOHC Escort was a bit special. It actually lasted quite well,
whilst proving me with huge enjoyment. Even at 100,000km, it was
happily revving past 7,000RPM. Until it was written off by an idiot >>>>> running a red.
Also unusual because Pinto engines were just okay.
**185kph. Redlined in top gear. Brilliant thing. I had a bit of a
race with a GTV2000 once. I kept up with him, until 140kph, where he
began to pull away. Not bad for a crappy old Escort. The 2L Escort
desperately deserved a 5th cog. I could easily stay with my mate's
4.1L Cortina. Until we hit a corner, of course. Then I left him for
dead.
I had an RS2000 for a couple of weeks in the early 80's, my memory was
that it went rather well but compared to anything modern it was pretty
slow.
**Duh. Compared to most things in 1976, the 2L Escort was pretty damned decent.
-a-aMy last Escort (2L) was a disappointment, but it lasted past
150,000km. I actually managed to sell it. Then my VH Commodore came >>>>> along. It lasted 175,000km before a complete engine swap (big
mistake - Higginbottom disaster). That engine lasted another
100,000km, before it died.
Typical Holden of the day, could have been worse, you could have
bought a VK piece of shit.
-a-aAfter that, my VL. Never gave me a minute's problems. Sold with
220,000km up. Then came my VP Commodore. Bits would fall off it and >>>>> the paint was, well, barely paint, but it was generally quiteLOL, you think that that is remarkable some how:-)
reliable, until a tree branch (weighing an estimated 3 Tonnes)
killed it at around 250,000km. Then I drove my partner's Ford
Telstar. We sold it at 245,000km. It was running fine. I just
couldn't get the air-con fixed. Then my Nissan Stagea. I sold it at >>>>> 245,000kms. I regularly receive texts from the purchaser, who is
clocking up big kms in it. He loves it. As did I. It was a quite
sophisticated car, electronically. Drive by wire, reversing camera, >>>>> GPS, auto folding and tilting mirrors, etc, etc.
All I can say is that cars are getting more reliable with each
purchase. My Subaru Levorg has not given me a millisecond's trouble >>>>> in 7 years. Of course, I've been using the same mechanic, or the
guy who trained under that mechanic for many years. I trust him/
them to ensure that my cars are reliable. In fact, when I purchased >>>>> the VL, he swapped out the radiator cap on day one for a Toyota(?!) >>>>> unit.
**I mis-remembered. He swapped the radiator cap on my VP to prevent
the radiator from failing. It worked.
Sounds like a lower pressure cap which may have stopped the radiator
failing but it lowered the coolants boiling point which isn't a great
idea especially on a car notorious for cooling system issues.
**It solved my radiator problems.
Noddy wrote:
On 4/01/2026 10:14 pm, keithr0 wrote:
On 4/01/2026 10:41 am, Clocky wrote:
Bzzzzt. Another comprehension failure on your part. I said I
couldn't speak a word of English when I was 9. I didn't say I was 9
when I started school here and it wasn't 1982 anyway.
That seems odd, I've visited the land of your birth several times,
and have rarely met anybody who couldn't speak English. I've asked a
couple of them why that is, the answer always was that they started
learning it as soon as they started school. So, I would have thought
that, unless you were particularly thick, you'd have at least a basic
understanding of English after at least 3 years of school.
It's getting to the point where you can't believe a word the bloke
says. Just like his mental mate.
Must be something about the Dutch :)
And something about you pair is that you are both lazy and stupid.
So because Retcho allegedly got told something by a couple of clog-wogs
in the street then that's conclusive proof of the Dutch education
system. Jaysus wept! You pair are ridiculous.
Fyi, Mr AI says that "English is routinely taught in Dutch primary
schools, with a legal requirement for it to start by group 7 (around age 10-11)...".
Well played boys.
On 5/01/2026 11:40 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 5/01/2026 7:53 am, Noddy wrote:
On 5/01/2026 6:04 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 4/01/2026 9:34 pm, Noddy wrote:
The Kent engine was a great little engine, but it was never
designed to see 7500rpm out of the box in *any* of it's forms.
**Try reading what I wrote. I NEVER claimed that I ran my 1.3L
Escort to 7,500RPM. AFAIK, such a thing would be impossible without
significant engine changes.
Sorry Trev, but I thought you mentioned revving the ring out of your
Escorts and complained about the 1.6 not being able to do so. Either
way, valve spring failure is a result of *someone* kicking the crap
out of the engine, and it's a little unfair to blame the engine for
that.
**I don't blame the engine at all. I know that I drove my little
Escort hard. A mate ran his harder. The engine lasted around 35,000
miles.
That tends to happen when you push machinery way past the boundaries of
it's intended use. The interesting bit is that you cited your Escorts as examples of older cars being less reliable, but it's becoming clear that
the reason for their relative unreliability was the person behind the
wheel and not the machines themselves :)
On 5/01/2026 6:10 am, alvey wrote:
Noddy wrote:
On 4/01/2026 10:14 pm, keithr0 wrote:
On 4/01/2026 10:41 am, Clocky wrote:
Bzzzzt. Another comprehension failure on your part. I said I
couldn't speak a word of English when I was 9. I didn't say I was 9 >>>>> when I started school here and it wasn't 1982 anyway.
That seems odd, I've visited the land of your birth several times,
and have rarely met anybody who couldn't speak English. I've asked a
couple of them why that is, the answer always was that they started
learning it as soon as they started school. So, I would have thought
that, unless you were particularly thick, you'd have at least a
basic understanding of English after at least 3 years of school.
It's getting to the point where you can't believe a word the bloke
says. Just like his mental mate.
Must be something about the Dutch :)
And something about you pair is that you are both lazy and stupid.
So because Retcho allegedly got told something by a couple of
clog-wogs in the street then that's conclusive proof of the Dutch
education system. Jaysus wept! You pair are ridiculous.
The "Clogwogs" are rather more likely to know something about the
subject than you or your "AI". Jaysus wept! You are ridiculous.
Fyi, Mr AI says that "English is routinely taught in Dutch primary
schools, with a legal requirement for it to start by group 7 (around
age 10-11)...".
Note the words *legal requirement* nothing prevents schools from
starting teaching English at an earlier stage.
Well played boys.
Not so well played Alv.
On 5/01/2026 6:10 am, alvey wrote:
Noddy wrote:
On 4/01/2026 10:14 pm, keithr0 wrote:
On 4/01/2026 10:41 am, Clocky wrote:
Bzzzzt. Another comprehension failure on your part. I said I
couldn't speak a word of English when I was 9. I didn't say I was 9 >>>>> when I started school here and it wasn't 1982 anyway.
That seems odd, I've visited the land of your birth several times,
and have rarely met anybody who couldn't speak English. I've asked a
couple of them why that is, the answer always was that they started
learning it as soon as they started school. So, I would have thought
that, unless you were particularly thick, you'd have at least a basic >>>> understanding of English after at least 3 years of school.
It's getting to the point where you can't believe a word the bloke
says. Just like his mental mate.
Must be something about the Dutch :)
And something about you pair is that you are both lazy and stupid.
So because Retcho allegedly got told something by a couple of clog-wogs
in the street then that's conclusive proof of the Dutch education
system. Jaysus wept! You pair are ridiculous.
The "Clogwogs" are rather more likely to know something about the
subject than you or your "AI". Jaysus wept! You are ridiculous.
Fyi, Mr AI says that "English is routinely taught in Dutch primary
schools, with a legal requirement for it to start by group 7 (around age
10-11)...".
Note the words *legal requirement* nothing prevents schools from
starting teaching English at an earlier stage.
Well played boys.
Not so well played Alv.
On 4/01/2026 11:07 am, Clocky wrote:
On 3/01/2026 4:16 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 3/01/2026 6:46 pm, Clocky wrote:
On 2/01/2026 5:16 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 30/12/2025 9:55 am, Clocky wrote:
On 29/12/2025 5:49 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 29/12/2025 8:19 pm, Daryl wrote:
On 29/12/2025 6:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
A week ago last Friday, the car fairy paid a visit, and, like >>>>>>>>> all good fairies, left a present - a RAV4.
It has only done one journey beyond the local area, a 25Km trip >>>>>>>>> to our daughter's place for Xmas day, but the economy looks OK, >>>>>>>>> usually in the low 5s, sometimes in the upper 4s. It's quite a >>>>>>>>> change from the Mazda 3, apart from the driving position being >>>>>>>>> significantly higher, things have moved on in the 10 years
since we bought the M3.
Not necessarily for the better IMO, too much electronics to go >>>>>>>> wrong, most of it is pretty reliable but can be a nightmare when >>>>>>>> it isn't.
**Bullshit. Electronics, in general, have improved car
reliability dramatically.
Absolute garbage. Most definitely not.
-a-aI cite the example of EFI as one that has VASTLY improved
almost every aspect of engine flexibility,
Yeah that was many decades ago now and did vastly improve
reliability but as time has gone on and countless modules and
systems have been introduced for superfluous bullshit reliability >>>>>> has declined.
And that's not just electronics - cost reduction, emission control >>>>>> systems, CRD and pushing engines to their limits etc have all
contributed to a decline in long term reliability.
**Bullshit. My FC Holden was pretty much buggered at around 100,000 >>>>> miles. My first Escort (1.3L) was headed for a major engine rebuild >>>>> at around 100,000km. My second Escort (1.6L pushrod) was a dud from >>>>> day one, but it was headed for the scrapyard at around 100,000km.
My first 2L SOHC Escort was a bit special. It actually lasted quite >>>>> well, whilst proving me with huge enjoyment. Even at 100,000km, it
was happily revving past 7,000RPM. Until it was written off by an
idiot running a red. My last Escort (2L) was a disappointment, but
it lasted past 150,000km. I actually managed to sell it. Then my VH >>>>> Commodore came along. It lasted 175,000km before a complete engine
swap (big mistake - Higginbottom disaster). That engine lasted
another 100,000km, before it died. After that, my VL. Never gave me >>>>> a minute's problems.
Yeah which proves my point when I said EFI did vastly improve
reliability and that it was decades ago.
The VL was ~40 years ago and EFI. It had it's issues too.
Not the first Holden with EFI, that belongs to the VK and it's
"black" Holden 3.3L with Bosch Jetronic EFI option. Economy and
power improved, reliability, well not so much :-)
-a-aSold with
220,000km up. Then came my VP Commodore. Bits would fall off it and >>>>> the paint was, well, barely paint, but it was generally quite
reliable, until a tree branch (weighing an estimated 3 Tonnes)
killed it at around 250,000km.
Then I drove my partner's Ford Telstar. We sold it at
245,000km. It was running fine.
Early ones were shit.
**Yep. I drove an early one. It felt like a truck. My partner's one
was a 1989 model. A Ghia. It was a decent, comfortable, VERY reliable
car. Best of all, when the clutch master and slave cylinders needed
replacement, the total bill was around $600.00. At the same time my
mate did the same job in his Jeep Compass (which used VW running
gear). That cost him 3 Grand!
1989 models were shit. Did a lot of head gasket on those.
**I guess we were lucky.
-a-aI just couldn't get the air-con fixed.
Then my Nissan Stagea. I sold it at 245,000kms. I regularly receive >>>>> texts from the purchaser, who is clocking up big kms in it. He
loves it. As did I. It was a quite sophisticated car,
electronically. Drive by wire, reversing camera, GPS, auto folding
and tilting mirrors, etc, etc.
Again, hardly new nor was it or anything special.
**The ONLY people who say that about the 2001 Nissan Stagea, are
those who have never driven one. Trust me: It was a very special car.
Quick (enough), luxurious, feature laden and very good handling
(51:49 weight distribution, AWD, independent suspension, etc, etc).
Such a great car. In fact, one of my customers spotted it out the
front one day and mentioned that he knew the car (which was unusual).
I asked what he knew about it. He explained that he was married to a
Japanese girl, whose father owned one. I was stunned and asked: "He
STILL OWNS one?" He confirmed that was the case. VERY unusual in
Japan, as it is very expensive to keep an old car. He explained that
his father-in-law owned one back in the early 2000s, but sold it and
moved to something else (I dunno what). He was so disappointed in the
new car, then he tracked down a good, used Stagea and bought it.
Great car. Don't forget, back in 2001, they sold for something like
4.5 million Yen. Sold here, they would likely have approached
AUS$100,000.00. Think: Lexus quality.
Yeah a decent old car but again, nothing special. Did it have wing
mirrors and the rust that often accompanied them typical of Jap import
vehicles?
**Of course not.
garaged, there was zero rust anywhere and the paintwork was still is
superb condition.
"Nothing special"? Clearly you have yet to drive (a good) one. I can
list several people who have owned one, then stepped back into one,
after realising what a great old car they are.
All I can say is that cars are getting more reliable with each
purchase. My Subaru Levorg has not given me a millisecond's trouble >>>>> in 7 years. Of course, I've been using the same mechanic, or the
guy who trained under that mechanic for many years. I trust
him/them to ensure that my cars are reliable.
The can only assure that they are well maintained. Reliability can't
be assured.
**Of course. When I mentioned to my mechanic that I thought a Fiat
595 would make a nice weekend car, he screamed at me.
-a-aThere were many optimally maintained Subaru's that suffered
engine problems and CVT failures over fairly recent years.
**Sure. I've read the same stories. I will remind you that those
problems are mechanical ones and, I'm led to believe, that it is
mostly due to the lack of regular service to the gearbox.
Not at all. The CVT's had issues long before the service interval
could have played any part. They were just shit.
Ditto the engine problems.
The Eyesight system has also been a bit problematic under certain
conditions.
**Nope. Under EXTREMELY heavy rain or EXTREMELY heavy fog, the
Eyesight system won't work. That is not a fault. It's a fact of life
and is dealt with in the manual. Frankly, anyone who drives quickly
under such conditions and relies solely on instrumentation is a bit
stupid, IMO. In 8 years of owning the Subaru, my Eyesight system has
ceased working 4 times. Each time, it was VERY heavy rain or fog. It
has never failed under any other conditions. Even what you would
consider to be heavy rainfall, it works fine. That said, I would like
to see Subaru augment the Eyesight system with radar.
Afraid not Trev.
https://www.eyesightsettlement.com/
**The only time/s that my Eyesight system has failed is during VERY
heavy rain or heavy fog. And, like I said, driving quickly under such condition requires an extreme level of stupidity.
-a-aIn fact, when I purchased the VL, he swapped out the
radiator cap on day one for a Toyota(?!) unit.
I can assure you that that did not reposition the radiator or engine
in the slightest :-)
**Correct. And, come to think of it, it was the VP that had the
radiator cap replaced. It was done to to prevent the constant
radiator failures.
Nope, there were no widespread radiator failures on VP let alone that
could be prevented with a cap change.
Are you sure you didn't own a Falcon?
**Never.
However, cracked heads in the VL is not the result of an electronics
failure.
CAS and coil failures leaving people stranded OTOH...
**Sure. As can any number of mechanical faults.
On 4/01/2026 11:41 am, Clocky wrote:
On 3/01/2026 7:05 pm, Noddy wrote:
Yet in previous times when desperately trying to exert his authority
into an argument, he claimed to have witnessed "Datsun 200B's rusting
away in holding yards" while they were new cars waiting for delivery.
Bzzzzt. Are you sure I said I "witnessed" it? I could have witnessed
for more than one reason but are you sure I actually said that or are
you fabricating that part?
Forget it Jerky.
squeeled when trying to claim you never said you used straps to hold unbalanced cars on hoists, until your mental mate threw you a life saver.
Maybe that's why you two incompetent cunts are so much in love :)
On 4/01/2026 10:41 am, Clocky wrote:
Bzzzzt. Another comprehension failure on your part. I said I couldn't
speak a word of English when I was 9. I didn't say I was 9 when I
started school here and it wasn't 1982 anyway.
That seems odd, I've visited the land of your birth several times, and
have rarely met anybody who couldn't speak English.
of them why that is, the answer always was that they started learning it
as soon as they started school.
you were particularly thick, you'd have at least a basic understanding
of English after at least 3 years of school.
keithr0 wrote:
On 5/01/2026 6:10 am, alvey wrote:
Noddy wrote:
On 4/01/2026 10:14 pm, keithr0 wrote:
On 4/01/2026 10:41 am, Clocky wrote:
Bzzzzt. Another comprehension failure on your part. I said I
couldn't speak a word of English when I was 9. I didn't say I was >>>>>> 9 when I started school here and it wasn't 1982 anyway.
That seems odd, I've visited the land of your birth several times,
and have rarely met anybody who couldn't speak English. I've asked
a couple of them why that is, the answer always was that they
started learning it as soon as they started school. So, I would
have thought that, unless you were particularly thick, you'd have
at least a basic understanding of English after at least 3 years of >>>>> school.
It's getting to the point where you can't believe a word the bloke
says. Just like his mental mate.
Must be something about the Dutch :)
And something about you pair is that you are both lazy and stupid.
So because Retcho allegedly got told something by a couple of clog-
wogs in the street then that's conclusive proof of the Dutch
education system. Jaysus wept! You pair are ridiculous.
The "Clogwogs" are rather more likely to know something about the
subject than you or your "AI". Jaysus wept! You are ridiculous.
Right. So I quote a fact and you post the *alleged* verbals of a couple
of unknowns and I'm "ridiculous"? Lol.
Fyi, Mr AI says that "English is routinely taught in Dutch primary
schools, with a legal requirement for it to start by group 7 (around
age 10-11)...".
Note the words *legal requirement* nothing prevents schools from
starting teaching English at an earlier stage.
Well done! You can read! It also said that schools didn't have to start teaching English until "age 10-11". ie Older than Clock was when he
lobbed here. DO YOU COMPREHEND THIS RITCHO?
Well played boys.
Not so well played Alv.
lol!
You're only saying that because you, like Brave Sir Runaway, are
incapable of admitting that you stuffed up.
Noddy wrote:
On 4/01/2026 10:14 pm, keithr0 wrote:
On 4/01/2026 10:41 am, Clocky wrote:
Bzzzzt. Another comprehension failure on your part. I said I
couldn't speak a word of English when I was 9. I didn't say I was 9
when I started school here and it wasn't 1982 anyway.
That seems odd, I've visited the land of your birth several times,
and have rarely met anybody who couldn't speak English. I've asked a
couple of them why that is, the answer always was that they started
learning it as soon as they started school. So, I would have thought
that, unless you were particularly thick, you'd have at least a basic
understanding of English after at least 3 years of school.
It's getting to the point where you can't believe a word the bloke
says. Just like his mental mate.
Must be something about the Dutch :)
And something about you pair is that you are both lazy and stupid.
So because Retcho allegedly got told something by a couple of clog-wogs
in the street then that's conclusive proof of the Dutch education
system. Jaysus wept! You pair are ridiculous.
Fyi, Mr AI says that "English is routinely taught in Dutch primary
schools, with a legal requirement for it to start by group 7 (around age 10-11)...".
Well played boys.
keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> wrote:
On 5/01/2026 6:10 am, alvey wrote:Not so well played Keith, the mandatory English requirement only came into force in 1986, a mere 40 years ago.
Noddy wrote:
On 4/01/2026 10:14 pm, keithr0 wrote:
On 4/01/2026 10:41 am, Clocky wrote:
Bzzzzt. Another comprehension failure on your part. I said I
couldn't speak a word of English when I was 9. I didn't say I was 9 >>>>>> when I started school here and it wasn't 1982 anyway.
That seems odd, I've visited the land of your birth several times,
and have rarely met anybody who couldn't speak English. I've asked a >>>>> couple of them why that is, the answer always was that they started
learning it as soon as they started school. So, I would have thought >>>>> that, unless you were particularly thick, you'd have at least a basic >>>>> understanding of English after at least 3 years of school.
It's getting to the point where you can't believe a word the bloke
says. Just like his mental mate.
Must be something about the Dutch :)
And something about you pair is that you are both lazy and stupid.
So because Retcho allegedly got told something by a couple of clog-wogs
in the street then that's conclusive proof of the Dutch education
system. Jaysus wept! You pair are ridiculous.
The "Clogwogs" are rather more likely to know something about the
subject than you or your "AI". Jaysus wept! You are ridiculous.
Fyi, Mr AI says that "English is routinely taught in Dutch primary
schools, with a legal requirement for it to start by group 7 (around age >>> 10-11)...".
Note the words *legal requirement* nothing prevents schools from
starting teaching English at an earlier stage.
Well played boys.
Not so well played Alv.
AI
English became the mandatory first foreign language in Dutch secondary schools around 1993, replacing French and German, though it had been
gaining prominence since the 1960s. In primary schools, English became the single compulsory foreign language from 1986, introduced in the final years (around age 10-11) but often started earlier, with law allowing up to 15%
of teaching time in English since 2015.
Key Milestones:
1960s-1970s: English started to overtake French and German as the primary foreign language.
1986: English became the only mandatory foreign language in primary education, starting in the seventh grade (ages 10-11).
1993: English became the sole compulsory foreign language in secondary education.
2013: English became a "core subject" in primary education.
2015: Law allowed English as a target language/medium for up to 15% of primary school time.
This shift reflects the Netherlands' emphasis on English for economic and international reasons, leading to extremely high English proficiency among the Dutch population.
WhatrCOs more, the transition would not have happened overnight so there would have been insufficient language teachers available to manage an
instant adoption so any earlier classes simply wouldnrCOt have been catered to. It takes time to recruit and train new language teachers so no earlier language start. You played yourself Keith. Oh, and your desperation is showing.
On 5/01/2026 6:10 am, alvey wrote:
Noddy wrote:
On 4/01/2026 10:14 pm, keithr0 wrote:
On 4/01/2026 10:41 am, Clocky wrote:
Bzzzzt. Another comprehension failure on your part. I said I
couldn't speak a word of English when I was 9. I didn't say I was 9 >>>>> when I started school here and it wasn't 1982 anyway.
That seems odd, I've visited the land of your birth several times,
and have rarely met anybody who couldn't speak English. I've asked a
couple of them why that is, the answer always was that they started
learning it as soon as they started school. So, I would have thought
that, unless you were particularly thick, you'd have at least a
basic understanding of English after at least 3 years of school.
It's getting to the point where you can't believe a word the bloke
says. Just like his mental mate.
Must be something about the Dutch :)
And something about you pair is that you are both lazy and stupid.
So because Retcho allegedly got told something by a couple of
clog-wogs in the street then that's conclusive proof of the Dutch
education system. Jaysus wept! You pair are ridiculous.
The "Clogwogs" are rather more likely to know something about the
subject than you or your "AI". Jaysus wept! You are ridiculous.
Fyi, Mr AI says that "English is routinely taught in Dutch primary
schools, with a legal requirement for it to start by group 7 (around
age 10-11)...".
Note the words *legal requirement* nothing prevents schools from
starting teaching English at an earlier stage.
Well played boys.
Not so well played Alv.
On 5/01/2026 12:10 pm, alvey wrote:
keithr0 wrote:
On 5/01/2026 6:10 am, alvey wrote:
Noddy wrote:
On 4/01/2026 10:14 pm, keithr0 wrote:
On 4/01/2026 10:41 am, Clocky wrote:
Bzzzzt. Another comprehension failure on your part. I said I
couldn't speak a word of English when I was 9. I didn't say I was >>>>>>> 9 when I started school here and it wasn't 1982 anyway.
That seems odd, I've visited the land of your birth several times, >>>>>> and have rarely met anybody who couldn't speak English. I've asked >>>>>> a couple of them why that is, the answer always was that they
started learning it as soon as they started school. So, I would
have thought that, unless you were particularly thick, you'd have >>>>>> at least a basic understanding of English after at least 3 years
of school.
It's getting to the point where you can't believe a word the bloke
says. Just like his mental mate.
Must be something about the Dutch :)
And something about you pair is that you are both lazy and stupid.
So because Retcho allegedly got told something by a couple of clog-
wogs in the street then that's conclusive proof of the Dutch
education system. Jaysus wept! You pair are ridiculous.
The "Clogwogs" are rather more likely to know something about the
subject than you or your "AI". Jaysus wept! You are ridiculous.
Right. So I quote a fact and you post the *alleged* verbals of a
couple of unknowns and I'm "ridiculous"? Lol.
You did not post a fact, you posted the output of some unknown "AI". If
you think that I stopped some random "Clogwogs" in the street, you are
even more stupid that I have given you credit for, these were
intelligent people with whom I had a social relationship, far more
reliable than some anonymous clown from the Sunshine Coast.
BTW, your use of the term "Clogwogs" is both demeaning to your friend clocky, and possibly in breach of hate speech laws.
Fyi, Mr AI says that "English is routinely taught in Dutch primary
schools, with a legal requirement for it to start by group 7 (around
age 10-11)...".
Note the words *legal requirement* nothing prevents schools from
starting teaching English at an earlier stage.
Well done! You can read! It also said that schools didn't have to
start teaching English until "age 10-11". ie Older than Clock was when
he lobbed here. DO YOU COMPREHEND THIS RITCHO?
That is a completely stupid statement, that fact that they don't have to doesn't mean that they don't. CAN YOU COMPREHEND THIS ALVO?
Well played boys.
Not so well played Alv.
lol!
You're only saying that because you, like Brave Sir Runaway, are
incapable of admitting that you stuffed up.
Look in the mirror and see who stuffed up.
On 5/01/2026 12:41 pm, Xeno wrote:
keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> wrote:
On 5/01/2026 6:10 am, alvey wrote:Not so well played Keith, the mandatory English requirement only came
Noddy wrote:
On 4/01/2026 10:14 pm, keithr0 wrote:
On 4/01/2026 10:41 am, Clocky wrote:
Bzzzzt. Another comprehension failure on your part. I said I
couldn't speak a word of English when I was 9. I didn't say I was 9 >>>>>>> when I started school here and it wasn't 1982 anyway.
That seems odd, I've visited the land of your birth several times, >>>>>> and have rarely met anybody who couldn't speak English. I've asked a >>>>>> couple of them why that is, the answer always was that they started >>>>>> learning it as soon as they started school. So, I would have thought >>>>>> that, unless you were particularly thick, you'd have at least a basic >>>>>> understanding of English after at least 3 years of school.
It's getting to the point where you can't believe a word the bloke
says. Just like his mental mate.
Must be something about the Dutch :)
And something about you pair is that you are both lazy and stupid.
So because Retcho allegedly got told something by a couple of clog-wogs >>>> in the street then that's conclusive proof of the Dutch education
system. Jaysus wept! You pair are ridiculous.
The "Clogwogs" are rather more likely to know something about the
subject than you or your "AI". Jaysus wept! You are ridiculous.
Fyi, Mr AI says that "English is routinely taught in Dutch primary
schools, with a legal requirement for it to start by group 7 (around
age
10-11)...".
Note the words *legal requirement* nothing prevents schools from
starting teaching English at an earlier stage.
Well played boys.
Not so well played Alv.
into
force in 1986, a mere 40 years ago.
AI
English became the mandatory first foreign language in Dutch secondary
schools around 1993, replacing French and German, though it had been
gaining prominence since the 1960s. In primary schools, English became
the
single compulsory foreign language from 1986, introduced in the final
years
(around age 10-11) but often started earlier, with law allowing up to 15%
of teaching time in English since 2015.
Key Milestones:
1960s-1970s: English started to overtake French and German as the primary
foreign language.
1986: English became the only mandatory foreign language in primary
education, starting in the seventh grade (ages 10-11).
1993: English became the sole compulsory foreign language in secondary
education.
2013: English became a "core subject" in primary education.
2015: Law allowed English as a target language/medium for up to 15% of
primary school time.
This shift reflects the Netherlands' emphasis on English for economic and
international reasons, leading to extremely high English proficiency
among
the Dutch population.
Good God, more AI slop.
WhatrCOs more, the transition would not have happened overnight so there
would have been insufficient language teachers available to manage an
instant adoption so any earlier classes simply wouldnrCOt have been catered >> to. It takes time to recruit and train new language teachers so no
earlier
language start. You played yourself Keith. Oh, and your desperation is
showing.
Desperation? ROTFL. Your problem, at least one of them, is that you can
only view anything through the prism of your own limited experience,
there is a lot more out there that you have no idea about, but won't--
admit it.
On 5/01/2026 10:57 am, jonz wrote:
On 04-Jan-26 12:38 PM, Clocky wrote:
On 3/01/2026 8:52 pm, alvey wrote:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Noddy wrote:
On 3/01/2026 12:38 pm, Clocky wrote:
On 2/01/2026 6:46 pm, Noddy wrote:
Yeah, that's right. Like people who, when an intermittent fault >>>>>>> with an error code that cannot be retrieved can't get the fault >>>>>>> to occur when they're looking at the vehicle do a bit of lateral >>>>>>> thinking and swap parts around to see if the fault follows the
swap the next time it occurs which will positively identify the >>>>>>> cause.
LOL, lateral thinking back to the 70's and all you know - part
swapping in hope and ignorance.
Part substitution is a *legitimate* diagnostic tool!. Always has
been,always will be!.
If you know what you are doing, it can be the fastest and most
economical method of diagnosing some faults.
On 5/01/2026 12:10 pm, alvey wrote:
keithr0 wrote:
On 5/01/2026 6:10 am, alvey wrote:
Noddy wrote:
On 4/01/2026 10:14 pm, keithr0 wrote:
On 4/01/2026 10:41 am, Clocky wrote:
Bzzzzt. Another comprehension failure on your part. I said I
couldn't speak a word of English when I was 9. I didn't say I was >>>>>>> 9 when I started school here and it wasn't 1982 anyway.
That seems odd, I've visited the land of your birth several times, >>>>>> and have rarely met anybody who couldn't speak English. I've asked >>>>>> a couple of them why that is, the answer always was that they
started learning it as soon as they started school. So, I would
have thought that, unless you were particularly thick, you'd have >>>>>> at least a basic understanding of English after at least 3 years
of school.
It's getting to the point where you can't believe a word the bloke
says. Just like his mental mate.
Must be something about the Dutch :)
And something about you pair is that you are both lazy and stupid.
So because Retcho allegedly got told something by a couple of clog-
wogs in the street then that's conclusive proof of the Dutch
education system. Jaysus wept! You pair are ridiculous.
The "Clogwogs" are rather more likely to know something about the
subject than you or your "AI". Jaysus wept! You are ridiculous.
Right. So I quote a fact and you post the *alleged* verbals of a
couple of unknowns and I'm "ridiculous"? Lol.
You did not post a fact, you posted the output of some unknown "AI". If
you think that I stopped some random "Clogwogs" in the street, you are
even more stupid that I have given you credit for, these were
intelligent people with whom I had a social relationship, far more
reliable than some anonymous clown from the Sunshine Coast.
BTW, your use of the term "Clogwogs" is both demeaning to your friend clocky, and possibly in breach of hate speech laws.
Fyi, Mr AI says that "English is routinely taught in Dutch primary
schools, with a legal requirement for it to start by group 7 (around
age 10-11)...".
Note the words *legal requirement* nothing prevents schools from
starting teaching English at an earlier stage.
Well done! You can read! It also said that schools didn't have to
start teaching English until "age 10-11". ie Older than Clock was when
he lobbed here. DO YOU COMPREHEND THIS RITCHO?
That is a completely stupid statement, that fact that they don't have to doesn't mean that they don't. CAN YOU COMPREHEND THIS ALVO?
Well played boys.
Not so well played Alv.
lol!
You're only saying that because you, like Brave Sir Runaway, are
incapable of admitting that you stuffed up.
Look in the mirror and see who stuffed up.
On 5/01/2026 11:17 am, keithr0 wrote:
On 5/01/2026 12:10 pm, alvey wrote:
keithr0 wrote:
On 5/01/2026 6:10 am, alvey wrote:
Noddy wrote:
On 4/01/2026 10:14 pm, keithr0 wrote:
On 4/01/2026 10:41 am, Clocky wrote:
Bzzzzt. Another comprehension failure on your part. I said I
couldn't speak a word of English when I was 9. I didn't say I >>>>>>>> was 9 when I started school here and it wasn't 1982 anyway.
That seems odd, I've visited the land of your birth several
times, and have rarely met anybody who couldn't speak English.
I've asked a couple of them why that is, the answer always was
that they started learning it as soon as they started school. So, >>>>>>> I would have thought that, unless you were particularly thick,
you'd have at least a basic understanding of English after at
least 3 years of school.
It's getting to the point where you can't believe a word the bloke >>>>>> says. Just like his mental mate.
Must be something about the Dutch :)
And something about you pair is that you are both lazy and stupid.
So because Retcho allegedly got told something by a couple of clog- >>>>> wogs in the street then that's conclusive proof of the Dutch
education system. Jaysus wept! You pair are ridiculous.
The "Clogwogs" are rather more likely to know something about the
subject than you or your "AI". Jaysus wept! You are ridiculous.
Right. So I quote a fact and you post the *alleged* verbals of a
couple of unknowns and I'm "ridiculous"? Lol.
You did not post a fact, you posted the output of some unknown "AI".
If you think that I stopped some random "Clogwogs" in the street, you
are even more stupid that I have given you credit for, these were
intelligent people with whom I had a social relationship, far more
reliable than some anonymous clown from the Sunshine Coast.
Irrelevant. You made the statement that I should have been taught
English in early primary school based on the statement of two unknown individuals of unknown age and have been shown why that is false.
You can't admit the basis of your comment was false and are failing to squirm your way out of your predicament.
BTW, your use of the term "Clogwogs" is both demeaning to your frienda "Clogwog" too.
clocky, and possibly in breach of hate speech laws.> No need to get offended on my behalf you ridiculous prat. I call myself
You could offer an apology for your baseless slur if you had any integrity.
Fyi, Mr AI says that "English is routinely taught in Dutch primary
schools, with a legal requirement for it to start by group 7
(around age 10-11)...".
Note the words *legal requirement* nothing prevents schools from
starting teaching English at an earlier stage.
Well done! You can read! It also said that schools didn't have to
start teaching English until "age 10-11". ie Older than Clock was
when he lobbed here. DO YOU COMPREHEND THIS RITCHO?
That is a completely stupid statement, that fact that they don't have
to doesn't mean that they don't. CAN YOU COMPREHEND THIS ALVO?
They didn't in the 70's. Ask me how I know...
Well played boys.
Not so well played Alv.
lol!
You're only saying that because you, like Brave Sir Runaway, are
incapable of admitting that you stuffed up.
Look in the mirror and see who stuffed up.
On 4/01/2026 8:33 pm, Clocky wrote:
On 3/01/2026 4:34 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
EFI *specifically* made cars more reliable, more efficient and more
powerful (though some of the very early EFI systems also had
reliability issues).
However, to broadly suggest that mechanical distributors, points, low
energy ignition systems and carbs were just as reliable as EFI is
laughable.
You wouldn't know Junior. They are before your time :)
On 5/01/2026 9:23 am, keithr0 wrote:
On 5/01/2026 6:10 am, alvey wrote:
Noddy wrote:
On 4/01/2026 10:14 pm, keithr0 wrote:
On 4/01/2026 10:41 am, Clocky wrote:
Bzzzzt. Another comprehension failure on your part. I said I
couldn't speak a word of English when I was 9. I didn't say I was >>>>>> 9 when I started school here and it wasn't 1982 anyway.
That seems odd, I've visited the land of your birth several times,
and have rarely met anybody who couldn't speak English. I've asked
a couple of them why that is, the answer always was that they
started learning it as soon as they started school. So, I would
have thought that, unless you were particularly thick, you'd have
at least a basic understanding of English after at least 3 years of >>>>> school.
It's getting to the point where you can't believe a word the bloke
says. Just like his mental mate.
Must be something about the Dutch :)
And something about you pair is that you are both lazy and stupid.
So because Retcho allegedly got told something by a couple of clog-
wogs in the street then that's conclusive proof of the Dutch
education system. Jaysus wept! You pair are ridiculous.
The "Clogwogs" are rather more likely to know something about the
subject than you or your "AI". Jaysus wept! You are ridiculous.
We know nothig about your "Clogwogs" except that you probably invented
them.
Fyi, Mr AI says that "English is routinely taught in Dutch primary
schools, with a legal requirement for it to start by group 7 (around
age 10-11)...".
Note the words *legal requirement* nothing prevents schools from
starting teaching English at an earlier stage.
Not in the 70's when I went to school in NL you fool. You were more
likely to learn French or German before you learned English and not
before age 10 anyway.
Well played boys.
Not so well played Alv.
You fucked up and you know it.
On 5/01/2026 9:28 am, keithr0 wrote:
On 5/01/2026 10:57 am, jonz wrote:
On 04-Jan-26 12:38 PM, Clocky wrote:
On 3/01/2026 8:52 pm, alvey wrote:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Noddy wrote:
On 3/01/2026 12:38 pm, Clocky wrote:
On 2/01/2026 6:46 pm, Noddy wrote:
Yeah, that's right. Like people who, when an intermittent fault >>>>>>>> with an error code that cannot be retrieved can't get the fault >>>>>>>> to occur when they're looking at the vehicle do a bit of lateral >>>>>>>> thinking and swap parts around to see if the fault follows the >>>>>>>> swap the next time it occurs which will positively identify the >>>>>>>> cause.
LOL, lateral thinking back to the 70's and all you know - part
swapping in hope and ignorance.
Part substitution is a *legitimate* diagnostic tool!. Always has
been,always will be!.
If you know what you are doing, it can be the fastest and most
economical method of diagnosing some faults.
Can be, but not in the specific example he gave.
In fact his example didn't even make any sense to do that as the first option which was the whole point I was making.
But as soon as he said he hadn't even bothered to plug in the very tool
that could have easily diagnose the fault I knew all I ever need to know.
His story was BS or he is grossly incompetent or most likely both.
On 5/01/2026 1:58 pm, Clocky wrote:
On 5/01/2026 11:17 am, keithr0 wrote:
On 5/01/2026 12:10 pm, alvey wrote:
keithr0 wrote:
On 5/01/2026 6:10 am, alvey wrote:
Noddy wrote:
On 4/01/2026 10:14 pm, keithr0 wrote:
On 4/01/2026 10:41 am, Clocky wrote:
Bzzzzt. Another comprehension failure on your part. I said I >>>>>>>>> couldn't speak a word of English when I was 9. I didn't say I >>>>>>>>> was 9 when I started school here and it wasn't 1982 anyway.
That seems odd, I've visited the land of your birth several
times, and have rarely met anybody who couldn't speak English. >>>>>>>> I've asked a couple of them why that is, the answer always was >>>>>>>> that they started learning it as soon as they started school. >>>>>>>> So, I would have thought that, unless you were particularly
thick, you'd have at least a basic understanding of English
after at least 3 years of school.
It's getting to the point where you can't believe a word the
bloke says. Just like his mental mate.
Must be something about the Dutch :)
And something about you pair is that you are both lazy and stupid. >>>>>>
So because Retcho allegedly got told something by a couple of
clog- wogs in the street then that's conclusive proof of the Dutch >>>>>> education system. Jaysus wept! You pair are ridiculous.
The "Clogwogs" are rather more likely to know something about the
subject than you or your "AI". Jaysus wept! You are ridiculous.
Right. So I quote a fact and you post the *alleged* verbals of a
couple of unknowns and I'm "ridiculous"? Lol.
You did not post a fact, you posted the output of some unknown "AI".
If you think that I stopped some random "Clogwogs" in the street, you
are even more stupid that I have given you credit for, these were
intelligent people with whom I had a social relationship, far more
reliable than some anonymous clown from the Sunshine Coast.
Irrelevant. You made the statement that I should have been taught
English in early primary school based on the statement of two unknown
individuals of unknown age and have been shown why that is false.
Nope upright Dutch citizens, with no reason to lie.
You can't admit the basis of your comment was false and are failing to
squirm your way out of your predicament.
Nope, no predicament.
BTW, your use of the term "Clogwogs" is both demeaning to your frienda "Clogwog" too.
clocky, and possibly in breach of hate speech laws.> No need to get
offended on my behalf you ridiculous prat. I call myself
Interesting, it would probably be different if some-one other than a
member of your little cult had said it.
You could offer an apology for your baseless slur if you had any
integrity.
Baseless slur?
On 5/01/2026 1:37 pm, Clocky wrote:
On 5/01/2026 9:23 am, keithr0 wrote:
On 5/01/2026 6:10 am, alvey wrote:
Noddy wrote:
On 4/01/2026 10:14 pm, keithr0 wrote:
On 4/01/2026 10:41 am, Clocky wrote:
Bzzzzt. Another comprehension failure on your part. I said I
couldn't speak a word of English when I was 9. I didn't say I was >>>>>>> 9 when I started school here and it wasn't 1982 anyway.
That seems odd, I've visited the land of your birth several times, >>>>>> and have rarely met anybody who couldn't speak English. I've asked >>>>>> a couple of them why that is, the answer always was that they
started learning it as soon as they started school. So, I would
have thought that, unless you were particularly thick, you'd have >>>>>> at least a basic understanding of English after at least 3 years
of school.
It's getting to the point where you can't believe a word the bloke
says. Just like his mental mate.
Must be something about the Dutch :)
And something about you pair is that you are both lazy and stupid.
So because Retcho allegedly got told something by a couple of clog-
wogs in the street then that's conclusive proof of the Dutch
education system. Jaysus wept! You pair are ridiculous.
The "Clogwogs" are rather more likely to know something about the
subject than you or your "AI". Jaysus wept! You are ridiculous.
We know nothig about your "Clogwogs" except that you probably invented
them.
Unlike you, I don't invent lies.
On 5/1/2026 3:08 pm, Clocky wrote:
On 5/01/2026 9:28 am, keithr0 wrote:
On 5/01/2026 10:57 am, jonz wrote:
On 04-Jan-26 12:38 PM, Clocky wrote:
On 3/01/2026 8:52 pm, alvey wrote:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Noddy wrote:
On 3/01/2026 12:38 pm, Clocky wrote:
On 2/01/2026 6:46 pm, Noddy wrote:
Yeah, that's right. Like people who, when an intermittent fault >>>>>>>>> with an error code that cannot be retrieved can't get the fault >>>>>>>>> to occur when they're looking at the vehicle do a bit of
lateral thinking and swap parts around to see if the fault
follows the swap the next time it occurs which will positively >>>>>>>>> identify the cause.
LOL, lateral thinking back to the 70's and all you know - part >>>>>>>> swapping in hope and ignorance.
Part substitution is a *legitimate* diagnostic tool!. Always has
been,always will be!.
If you know what you are doing, it can be the fastest and most
economical method of diagnosing some faults.
Can be, but not in the specific example he gave.
In fact his example didn't even make any sense to do that as the first
option which was the whole point I was making.
In fact Darren's example appeared to be quite contrived. Probably had
its gestation in one of his random delusions.
Definitely both, no doubt about it.
But as soon as he said he hadn't even bothered to plug in the very
tool that could have easily diagnose the fault I knew all I ever need
to know.
His story was BS or he is grossly incompetent or most likely both.
On 5/01/2026 9:28 am, keithr0 wrote:
On 5/01/2026 10:57 am, jonz wrote:
On 04-Jan-26 12:38 PM, Clocky wrote:
On 3/01/2026 8:52 pm, alvey wrote:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Noddy wrote:
On 3/01/2026 12:38 pm, Clocky wrote:
On 2/01/2026 6:46 pm, Noddy wrote:
Yeah, that's right. Like people who, when an intermittent fault >>>>>>>> with an error code that cannot be retrieved can't get the fault >>>>>>>> to occur when they're looking at the vehicle do a bit of lateral >>>>>>>> thinking and swap parts around to see if the fault follows the >>>>>>>> swap the next time it occurs which will positively identify the >>>>>>>> cause.
LOL, lateral thinking back to the 70's and all you know - part
swapping in hope and ignorance.
Part substitution is a *legitimate* diagnostic tool!. Always has
been,always will be!.
If you know what you are doing, it can be the fastest and most
economical method of diagnosing some faults.
Can be, but not in the specific example he gave.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
In fact his example didn't even make any sense to do that as the first option which was the whole point I was making.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
But as soon as he said he hadn't even bothered to plug in the very tool
that could have easily diagnose the fault I knew all I ever need to know.
His story was BS or he is grossly incompetent or most likely both.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On 5/01/2026 12:16 pm, Xeno wrote:
On 5/1/2026 3:08 pm, Clocky wrote:
On 5/01/2026 9:28 am, keithr0 wrote:
On 5/01/2026 10:57 am, jonz wrote:
On 04-Jan-26 12:38 PM, Clocky wrote:
On 3/01/2026 8:52 pm, alvey wrote:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Noddy wrote:
On 3/01/2026 12:38 pm, Clocky wrote:
On 2/01/2026 6:46 pm, Noddy wrote:
Yeah, that's right. Like people who, when an intermittent >>>>>>>>>> fault with an error code that cannot be retrieved can't get >>>>>>>>>> the fault to occur when they're looking at the vehicle do a >>>>>>>>>> bit of lateral thinking and swap parts around to see if the >>>>>>>>>> fault follows the swap the next time it occurs which will >>>>>>>>>> positively identify the cause.
LOL, lateral thinking back to the 70's and all you know - part >>>>>>>>> swapping in hope and ignorance.
Part substitution is a *legitimate* diagnostic tool!. Always has
been,always will be!.
If you know what you are doing, it can be the fastest and most
economical method of diagnosing some faults.
Can be, but not in the specific example he gave.
In fact his example didn't even make any sense to do that as the
first option which was the whole point I was making.
In fact Darren's example appeared to be quite contrived. Probably had
its gestation in one of his random delusions.
Definitely both, no doubt about it.
But as soon as he said he hadn't even bothered to plug in the very
tool that could have easily diagnose the fault I knew all I ever need
to know.
His story was BS or he is grossly incompetent or most likely both.
The story was good enough to fool enablers Jonz and Keith but they have
no experience with EFI systems nor are they critical thinkers.
On 5/01/2026 12:15 pm, keithr0 wrote:
On 5/01/2026 1:37 pm, Clocky wrote:
On 5/01/2026 9:23 am, keithr0 wrote:
On 5/01/2026 6:10 am, alvey wrote:
Noddy wrote:
On 4/01/2026 10:14 pm, keithr0 wrote:
On 4/01/2026 10:41 am, Clocky wrote:
Bzzzzt. Another comprehension failure on your part. I said I
couldn't speak a word of English when I was 9. I didn't say I >>>>>>>> was 9 when I started school here and it wasn't 1982 anyway.
That seems odd, I've visited the land of your birth several
times, and have rarely met anybody who couldn't speak English.
I've asked a couple of them why that is, the answer always was
that they started learning it as soon as they started school. So, >>>>>>> I would have thought that, unless you were particularly thick,
you'd have at least a basic understanding of English after at
least 3 years of school.
It's getting to the point where you can't believe a word the bloke >>>>>> says. Just like his mental mate.
Must be something about the Dutch :)
And something about you pair is that you are both lazy and stupid.
So because Retcho allegedly got told something by a couple of clog- >>>>> wogs in the street then that's conclusive proof of the Dutch
education system. Jaysus wept! You pair are ridiculous.
The "Clogwogs" are rather more likely to know something about the
subject than you or your "AI". Jaysus wept! You are ridiculous.
We know nothig about your "Clogwogs" except that you probably
invented them.
Unlike you, I don't invent lies.
In that case you need to provide greater details of your Clogwogs to determine why they might have made that comment which doesn't apply to anyone who was schooled in NL in the 70's and under age 10.
On 5/01/2026 12:10 pm, alvey wrote:
keithr0 wrote:
On 5/01/2026 6:10 am, alvey wrote:
Noddy wrote:
On 4/01/2026 10:14 pm, keithr0 wrote:
On 4/01/2026 10:41 am, Clocky wrote:
Bzzzzt. Another comprehension failure on your part. I said I
couldn't speak a word of English when I was 9. I didn't say I was >>>>>>> 9 when I started school here and it wasn't 1982 anyway.
That seems odd, I've visited the land of your birth several times, >>>>>> and have rarely met anybody who couldn't speak English. I've asked >>>>>> a couple of them why that is, the answer always was that they
started learning it as soon as they started school. So, I would
have thought that, unless you were particularly thick, you'd have >>>>>> at least a basic understanding of English after at least 3 years
of school.
It's getting to the point where you can't believe a word the bloke
says. Just like his mental mate.
Must be something about the Dutch :)
And something about you pair is that you are both lazy and stupid.
So because Retcho allegedly got told something by a couple of clog-
wogs in the street then that's conclusive proof of the Dutch
education system. Jaysus wept! You pair are ridiculous.
The "Clogwogs" are rather more likely to know something about the
subject than you or your "AI". Jaysus wept! You are ridiculous.
Right. So I quote a fact and you post the *alleged* verbals of a
couple of unknowns and I'm "ridiculous"? Lol.
You did not post a fact, you posted the output of some unknown "AI".
If you think that I stopped some random "Clogwogs" in the street, you are even more stupid that I have given you credit for, these were
intelligent people with whom I had a social relationship, far more
reliable than some anonymous clown from the Sunshine Coast.
BTW, your use of the term "Clogwogs" is both demeaning to your friend clocky, and possibly in breach of hate speech laws.
Fyi, Mr AI says that "English is routinely taught in Dutch primary
schools, with a legal requirement for it to start by group 7 (around
age 10-11)...".
Note the words *legal requirement* nothing prevents schools from
starting teaching English at an earlier stage.
Well done! You can read! It also said that schools didn't have to
start teaching English until "age 10-11". ie Older than Clock was when
he lobbed here. DO YOU COMPREHEND THIS RITCHO?
That is a completely stupid statement, that fact that they don't have to doesn't mean that they don't. CAN YOU COMPREHEND THIS ALVO?
Well played boys.
Not so well played Alv.
lol!
You're only saying that because you, like Brave Sir Runaway, are
incapable of admitting that you stuffed up.
Look in the mirror and see who stuffed up.
On 5/01/2026 10:59 am, Xeno wrote:
In Thailand English has become mandatory in primary school from 4thCompletely irrelevant.
grade. I know because I was lumbered with a composite English class
(4-5-6) way back in 97. The reason for that is the limited spread of
Thai Language - not much use outside of Thailand or Laos.
On 4/01/2026 9:37 am, Noddy wrote:
Bzzzzt. Are you sure I said I "witnessed" it? I could have witnessed
for more than one reason but are you sure I actually said that or are
you fabricating that part?
Forget it Jerky.
Not a chance.
-aYour bullshit has been noted.
So post a link and prove it.
On 5/01/2026 4:10 am, alvey wrote:
Noddy wrote:
On 4/01/2026 10:14 pm, keithr0 wrote:
On 4/01/2026 10:41 am, Clocky wrote:
Bzzzzt. Another comprehension failure on your part. I said I
couldn't speak a word of English when I was 9. I didn't say I was 9 >>>>> when I started school here and it wasn't 1982 anyway.
That seems odd, I've visited the land of your birth several times,
and have rarely met anybody who couldn't speak English. I've asked a
couple of them why that is, the answer always was that they started
learning it as soon as they started school. So, I would have thought
that, unless you were particularly thick, you'd have at least a
basic understanding of English after at least 3 years of school.
It's getting to the point where you can't believe a word the bloke
says. Just like his mental mate.
Must be something about the Dutch :)
And something about you pair is that you are both lazy and stupid.
So because Retcho allegedly got told something by a couple of
clog-wogs in the street then that's conclusive proof of the Dutch
education system. Jaysus wept! You pair are ridiculous.
Fyi, Mr AI says that "English is routinely taught in Dutch primary
schools, with a legal requirement for it to start by group 7 (around
age 10-11)...".
*and* only since 1986 - when I was already here and fluent in English.
In fact had I stayed on I would have learned French/German first and
English only in secondary school.
On 5/01/2026 10:57 am, jonz wrote:
On 04-Jan-26 12:38 PM, Clocky wrote:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~LOL, lateral thinking back to the 70's and all you know - part
swapping in hope and ignorance.
Part substitution is a *legitimate* diagnostic tool!. Always has
been,always will be!.
If you know what you are doing, it can be the fastest and most
economical method of diagnosing some faults.
On 5/01/2026 9:28 am, keithr0 wrote:
On 5/01/2026 10:57 am, jonz wrote:
Part substitution is a *legitimate* diagnostic tool!. Always has
been,always will be!.
If you know what you are doing, it can be the fastest and most
economical method of diagnosing some faults.
Can be, but not in the specific example he gave.
In fact his example didn't even make any sense to do that as the first option which was the whole point I was making.
But as soon as he said he hadn't even bothered to plug in the very tool
that could have easily diagnose the fault I knew all I ever need to know.
His story was BS or he is grossly incompetent or most likely both.
On 5/01/2026 12:10 pm, alvey wrote:
Right. So I quote a fact and you post the *alleged* verbals of a
couple of unknowns and I'm "ridiculous"? Lol.
You did not post a fact, you posted the output of some unknown "AI". If
you think that I stopped some random "Clogwogs" in the street, you are
even more stupid that I have given you credit for, these were
intelligent people with whom I had a social relationship, far more
reliable than some anonymous clown from the Sunshine Coast.
On 5/01/2026 11:17 am, keithr0 wrote:
You did not post a fact, you posted the output of some unknown "AI".
If you think that I stopped some random "Clogwogs" in the street, you
are even more stupid that I have given you credit for, these were
intelligent people with whom I had a social relationship, far more
reliable than some anonymous clown from the Sunshine Coast.
Irrelevant. You made the statement that I should have been taught
English in early primary school based on the statement of two unknown individuals of unknown age and have been shown why that is false.
You can't admit the basis of your comment was false and are failing to squirm your way out of your predicament.
BTW, your use of the term "Clogwogs" is both demeaning to your friend
clocky, and possibly in breach of hate speech laws.
No need to get offended on my behalf you ridiculous prat. I call myself
a "Clogwog" too.
On 5/01/2026 12:25 pm, keithr0 wrote:
On 5/01/2026 10:59 am, Xeno wrote:
In Thailand English has become mandatory in primary school from 4thCompletely irrelevant.
grade. I know because I was lumbered with a composite English class
(4-5-6) way back in 97. The reason for that is the limited spread of
Thai Language - not much use outside of Thailand or Laos.
Yep. Unless Jerky came from Thailand I don't see how this ridiculous
comment is even *remotely* relevant to anything being discussed. But
then we all know how relevance isn't his bag. As long as he can waffle
about *anything* it doesn't matter.
On 5/01/2026 3:08 pm, Clocky wrote:
On 5/01/2026 9:28 am, keithr0 wrote:
On 5/01/2026 10:57 am, jonz wrote:
Part substitution is a *legitimate* diagnostic tool!. Always has
been,always will be!.
If you know what you are doing, it can be the fastest and most
economical method of diagnosing some faults.
Can be, but not in the specific example he gave.
And yet it pinpointed the fault and solved the problem. Go figure.
In fact his example didn't even make any sense to do that as the first
option which was the whole point I was making.
You never had a point, other than to demonstrate that you had zero understanding of the workings of OBD2.
But as soon as he said he hadn't even bothered to plug in the very
tool that could have easily diagnose the fault I knew all I ever need
to know.
Again, you cannot recall codes that have been permanently deleted once
the engine has gone through the minimum number of start cycles without
the fault reoccurring, and I challenge you to cite *any* reference that shows this as *not* being the case.
His story was BS or he is grossly incompetent or most likely both.
The only person who is both incompetent *and* full of bullshit on this matter is you. You have demonstrated an absolute and total lack of understanding not only of the way the system works, but your idea of
using long term fuel trims to accurately diagnose a momentary misfire
was laughable in the extreme.
You are completely clueless, which is why you screw on mudflaps and
snorkels for a living.
On 5/01/2026 2:17 pm, keithr0 wrote:
On 5/01/2026 12:10 pm, alvey wrote:
Right. So I quote a fact and you post the *alleged* verbals of a
couple of unknowns and I'm "ridiculous"? Lol.
You did not post a fact, you posted the output of some unknown "AI".
If you think that I stopped some random "Clogwogs" in the street, you
are even more stupid that I have given you credit for, these were
intelligent people with whom I had a social relationship, far more
reliable than some anonymous clown from the Sunshine Coast.
ROTFL :)
This pretty much sums up why we've never seen anything remotely
resembling "proof" from this fucking idiot :)
On 5/01/2026 12:14 pm, keithr0 wrote:
Irrelevant. You made the statement that I should have been taught
English in early primary school based on the statement of two unknown
individuals of unknown age and have been shown why that is false.
Nope upright Dutch citizens, with no reason to lie.
"I've asked a couple of them why that is, the answer always was
that they started learning it as soon as they started school."
Not in the 70's they most certainly didn't and if so not until the early 90's and you have been shown why that is.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language_in_the_Netherlands
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_education_by_region
On 5/01/2026 2:58 pm, Clocky wrote:
On 5/01/2026 11:17 am, keithr0 wrote:
You did not post a fact, you posted the output of some unknown "AI".
If you think that I stopped some random "Clogwogs" in the street, you
are even more stupid that I have given you credit for, these were
intelligent people with whom I had a social relationship, far more
reliable than some anonymous clown from the Sunshine Coast.
Irrelevant. You made the statement that I should have been taught
English in early primary school based on the statement of two unknown
individuals of unknown age and have been shown why that is false.
So answer a direct question. Did they teach English in schools during
your time there, and what period are we talking about?
You can't admit the basis of your comment was false and are failing to
squirm your way out of your predicament.
You're the one that can clear this up given you were there, but I'm
tipping that you'll do your usual act of dancing around the subject
rather than be definitive.
BTW, your use of the term "Clogwogs" is both demeaning to your friend
clocky, and possibly in breach of hate speech laws.
No need to get offended on my behalf you ridiculous prat. I call
myself a "Clogwog" too.
Surely you can-a do better than that.
On 5/01/2026 3:29 pm, Clocky wrote:
On 5/01/2026 12:14 pm, keithr0 wrote:
Irrelevant. You made the statement that I should have been taught
English in early primary school based on the statement of two
unknown individuals of unknown age and have been shown why that is
false.
Nope upright Dutch citizens, with no reason to lie.
"I've asked a couple of them why that is, the answer always was
that they started learning it as soon as they started school."
Not in the 70's they most certainly didn't and if so not until the
early 90's and you have been shown why that is.
The wiki article on the subject:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language_in_the_Netherlands
And here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_education_by_region
It would appear that English is a very common language in that part of
the world, and has been part of the school curriculum for longer than
you make out :)
On 5/01/2026 3:29 pm, Clocky wrote:
On 5/01/2026 12:14 pm, keithr0 wrote:
Irrelevant. You made the statement that I should have been taught
English in early primary school based on the statement of two
unknown individuals of unknown age and have been shown why that is
false.
Nope upright Dutch citizens, with no reason to lie.
"I've asked a couple of them why that is, the answer always was
that they started learning it as soon as they started school."
Not in the 70's they most certainly didn't and if so not until the
early 90's and you have been shown why that is.
The wiki article on the subject:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language_in_the_Netherlands
And here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_education_by_region
It would appear that English is a very common language in that part of
the world,
and has been part of the school curriculum for longer than
you make out :)
On 5/01/2026 2:58 pm, Clocky wrote:
So answer a direct question.
On 5/01/2026 2:17 pm, keithr0 wrote:
On 5/01/2026 12:10 pm, alvey wrote:
Right. So I quote a fact and you post the *alleged* verbals of a
couple of unknowns and I'm "ridiculous"? Lol.
You did not post a fact, you posted the output of some unknown "AI".
If you think that I stopped some random "Clogwogs" in the street, you
are even more stupid that I have given you credit for, these were
intelligent people with whom I had a social relationship, far more
reliable than some anonymous clown from the Sunshine Coast.
ROTFL :)
This pretty much sums up why we've never seen anything remotely
resembling "proof" from this fucking idiot :)
On 5/1/2026 6:17 pm, Noddy wrote:
On 5/01/2026 2:17 pm, keithr0 wrote:Never seen anything remotely resembling "proof" from *YOU*!
On 5/01/2026 12:10 pm, alvey wrote:
Right. So I quote a fact and you post the *alleged* verbals of a
couple of unknowns and I'm "ridiculous"? Lol.
You did not post a fact, you posted the output of some unknown "AI".
If you think that I stopped some random "Clogwogs" in the street, you
are even more stupid that I have given you credit for, these were
intelligent people with whom I had a social relationship, far more
reliable than some anonymous clown from the Sunshine Coast.
ROTFL :)
This pretty much sums up why we've never seen anything remotely
resembling "proof" from this fucking idiot :)
Xeno wrote:
On 5/1/2026 6:17 pm, Noddy wrote:
On 5/01/2026 2:17 pm, keithr0 wrote:Never seen anything remotely resembling "proof" from *YOU*!
On 5/01/2026 12:10 pm, alvey wrote:
Right. So I quote a fact and you post the *alleged* verbals of a
couple of unknowns and I'm "ridiculous"? Lol.
You did not post a fact, you posted the output of some unknown "AI".
If you think that I stopped some random "Clogwogs" in the street,
you are even more stupid that I have given you credit for, these
were intelligent people with whom I had a social relationship, far
more reliable than some anonymous clown from the Sunshine Coast.
ROTFL :)
This pretty much sums up why we've never seen anything remotely
resembling "proof" from this fucking idiot :)
Untrue! Buffo has provided bagsfull of proof! Proofthat he is a liar.
Proof that he's an astonishing hypocrite. Proof that he's a buffoon etc etc
On 5/01/2026 3:29 pm, Clocky wrote:
On 5/01/2026 12:14 pm, keithr0 wrote:
Irrelevant. You made the statement that I should have been taught
English in early primary school based on the statement of two
unknown individuals of unknown age and have been shown why that is
false.
Nope upright Dutch citizens, with no reason to lie.
"I've asked a couple of them why that is, the answer always was
that they started learning it as soon as they started school."
Not in the 70's they most certainly didn't and if so not until the
early 90's and you have been shown why that is.
The wiki article on the subject:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language_in_the_Netherlands
And here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_education_by_region
It would appear that English is a very common language in that part of
the world,
you make out :)
On 5/01/2026 2:58 pm, Clocky wrote:
On 5/01/2026 11:17 am, keithr0 wrote:
You did not post a fact, you posted the output of some unknown "AI".
If you think that I stopped some random "Clogwogs" in the street, you
are even more stupid that I have given you credit for, these were
intelligent people with whom I had a social relationship, far more
reliable than some anonymous clown from the Sunshine Coast.
Irrelevant. You made the statement that I should have been taught
English in early primary school based on the statement of two unknown
individuals of unknown age and have been shown why that is false.
So answer a direct question. Did they teach English in schools during
your time there, and what period are we talking about?
You can't admit the basis of your comment was false and are failing to
squirm your way out of your predicament.
You're the one that can clear this up given you were there, but I'm
tipping that you'll do your usual act of dancing around the subject
rather than be definitive.
BTW, your use of the term "Clogwogs" is both demeaning to your friend
clocky, and possibly in breach of hate speech laws.
No need to get offended on my behalf you ridiculous prat. I call
myself a "Clogwog" too.
Surely you can-a do better than that.
On 5/01/2026 3:30 pm, Noddy wrote:
*None* of which applied to me as English was not taught in primary
school in the 70's when I was 9.
English in primary school only became commonplace long after I arrived
here.
On 5/01/2026 10:50 pm, Clocky wrote:
On 5/01/2026 3:30 pm, Noddy wrote:
*None* of which applied to me as English was not taught in primary
school in the 70's when I was 9.
English in primary school only became commonplace long after I arrived
here.
As usual, you've danced your little dance. 97% of clog wearers speak
English and have done for some time according to various sources, and
that's probably more than here. But you never spoke a word of it until
you arrived here?
I'm calling bullshit.
On 5/01/2026 1:37 pm, Clocky wrote:
On 5/01/2026 9:23 am, keithr0 wrote:
On 5/01/2026 6:10 am, alvey wrote:
We know nothig about your "Clogwogs" except that you probably invented
them.
Unlike you, I don't invent lies.
On 5/01/2026 10:50 pm, Clocky wrote:
On 5/01/2026 3:30 pm, Noddy wrote:
*None* of which applied to me as English was not taught in primary
school in the 70's when I was 9.
English in primary school only became commonplace long after I arrived
here.
As usual, you've danced your little dance. 97% of clog wearers speak
English and have done for some time according to various sources, and
that's probably more than here. But you never spoke a word of it until
you arrived here?
I'm calling bullshit.
On 4/01/2026 11:07 am, Clocky wrote:
On 3/01/2026 4:16 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 3/01/2026 6:46 pm, Clocky wrote:
On 2/01/2026 5:16 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 30/12/2025 9:55 am, Clocky wrote:
On 29/12/2025 5:49 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 29/12/2025 8:19 pm, Daryl wrote:
On 29/12/2025 6:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
A week ago last Friday, the car fairy paid a visit, and, like >>>>>>>>> all good fairies, left a present - a RAV4.
It has only done one journey beyond the local area, a 25Km trip >>>>>>>>> to our daughter's place for Xmas day, but the economy looks OK, >>>>>>>>> usually in the low 5s, sometimes in the upper 4s. It's quite a >>>>>>>>> change from the Mazda 3, apart from the driving position being >>>>>>>>> significantly higher, things have moved on in the 10 years
since we bought the M3.
Not necessarily for the better IMO, too much electronics to go >>>>>>>> wrong, most of it is pretty reliable but can be a nightmare when >>>>>>>> it isn't.
**Bullshit. Electronics, in general, have improved car
reliability dramatically.
Absolute garbage. Most definitely not.
-a-aI cite the example of EFI as one that has VASTLY improved
almost every aspect of engine flexibility,
Yeah that was many decades ago now and did vastly improve
reliability but as time has gone on and countless modules and
systems have been introduced for superfluous bullshit reliability >>>>>> has declined.
And that's not just electronics - cost reduction, emission control >>>>>> systems, CRD and pushing engines to their limits etc have all
contributed to a decline in long term reliability.
**Bullshit. My FC Holden was pretty much buggered at around 100,000 >>>>> miles. My first Escort (1.3L) was headed for a major engine rebuild >>>>> at around 100,000km. My second Escort (1.6L pushrod) was a dud from >>>>> day one, but it was headed for the scrapyard at around 100,000km.
My first 2L SOHC Escort was a bit special. It actually lasted quite >>>>> well, whilst proving me with huge enjoyment. Even at 100,000km, it
was happily revving past 7,000RPM. Until it was written off by an
idiot running a red. My last Escort (2L) was a disappointment, but
it lasted past 150,000km. I actually managed to sell it. Then my VH >>>>> Commodore came along. It lasted 175,000km before a complete engine
swap (big mistake - Higginbottom disaster). That engine lasted
another 100,000km, before it died. After that, my VL. Never gave me >>>>> a minute's problems.
Yeah which proves my point when I said EFI did vastly improve
reliability and that it was decades ago.
The VL was ~40 years ago and EFI. It had it's issues too.
Not the first Holden with EFI, that belongs to the VK and it's
"black" Holden 3.3L with Bosch Jetronic EFI option. Economy and
power improved, reliability, well not so much :-)
-a-aSold with
220,000km up. Then came my VP Commodore. Bits would fall off it and >>>>> the paint was, well, barely paint, but it was generally quite
reliable, until a tree branch (weighing an estimated 3 Tonnes)
killed it at around 250,000km.
Then I drove my partner's Ford Telstar. We sold it at
245,000km. It was running fine.
Early ones were shit.
**Yep. I drove an early one. It felt like a truck. My partner's one
was a 1989 model. A Ghia. It was a decent, comfortable, VERY reliable
car. Best of all, when the clutch master and slave cylinders needed
replacement, the total bill was around $600.00. At the same time my
mate did the same job in his Jeep Compass (which used VW running
gear). That cost him 3 Grand!
1989 models were shit. Did a lot of head gasket on those.
**I guess we were lucky.
On 04-Jan-26 8:56 PM, Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 3/01/2026 9:17 pm, Daryl wrote:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
On 3/1/2026 7:27 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 3/01/2026 8:05 am, Daryl wrote:
On 2/1/2026 8:16 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 30/12/2025 9:55 am, Clocky wrote:
On 29/12/2025 5:49 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 29/12/2025 8:19 pm, Daryl wrote:
On 29/12/2025 6:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
A week ago last Friday, the car fairy paid a visit, and, like >>>>>>>>>> all good fairies, left a present - a RAV4.
It has only done one journey beyond the local area, a 25Km >>>>>>>>>> trip to our daughter's place for Xmas day, but the economy >>>>>>>>>> looks OK, usually in the low 5s, sometimes in the upper 4s. >>>>>>>>>> It's quite a change from the Mazda 3, apart from the driving >>>>>>>>>> position being significantly higher, things have moved on in >>>>>>>>>> the 10 years since we bought the M3.
Not necessarily for the better IMO, too much electronics to go >>>>>>>>> wrong, most of it is pretty reliable but can be a nightmare >>>>>>>>> when it isn't.
**Bullshit. Electronics, in general, have improved car
reliability dramatically.
Absolute garbage. Most definitely not.
-a-aI cite the example of EFI as one that has VASTLY improved
almost every aspect of engine flexibility,
Yeah that was many decades ago now and did vastly improve
reliability but as time has gone on and countless modules and
systems have been introduced for superfluous bullshit reliability >>>>>>> has declined.
And that's not just electronics - cost reduction, emission
control systems, CRD and pushing engines to their limits etc have >>>>>>> all contributed to a decline in long term reliability.
**Bullshit. My FC Holden was pretty much buggered at around
100,000 miles.
Pretty much standard for those engines in those days.
-a-aMy first Escort (1.3L) was headed for a major engine rebuild at >>>>>> around 100,000km.
That is unusual, Kent engines are generally robust.
**Robust, yes. Mine was diagnosed as requiring a new set of valve
springs, along with a bunch of other stuff.
Needing new valve springs at 100,00km says to me that the engine was
abused in that it was held at high rpm too often, its also hardly a
"major rebuild" its actually a simple job on those engines.
**Very likely, but the car was well past it's use-by date in many areas.
-a-aMy second Escort (1.6L pushrod) was a dud from day
one, but it was headed for the scrapyard at around 100,000km.
Also unusual.
**The 1.6L pushrod was a heap of shit. Barely made more power than
the 1.3L, revved out to a pitiful 5,500RPM and Dieseled when turned
off. There was no cure. Ford had a kludge, which didn't work. All in
all, the 1.6L pushrod was a profoundly disappointing car.
Particularly, since I had taken a 1.6L DOHC for a spin at the same
time. WOW!
Trying to remind what year that car would have been?
Late 70's early 80's?
**1976.
If so that was around the time when emissions rules were new and many
car makers struggled to meet emissions and still make decent power,
many lost power so not really the fault of the engine.
-aBall bearings inserted in appropriate tubing made those early emission devices learn their place in the universe!. ;)-a >
On 5/01/2026 10:59 am, Xeno wrote:
On 5/1/2026 7:10 am, alvey wrote:
Noddy wrote:
On 4/01/2026 10:14 pm, keithr0 wrote:
On 4/01/2026 10:41 am, Clocky wrote:
Bzzzzt. Another comprehension failure on your part. I said I
couldn't speak a word of English when I was 9. I didn't say I was >>>>>> 9 when I started school here and it wasn't 1982 anyway.
That seems odd, I've visited the land of your birth several times,
and have rarely met anybody who couldn't speak English. I've asked
a couple of them why that is, the answer always was that they
started learning it as soon as they started school. So, I would
have thought that, unless you were particularly thick, you'd have
at least a basic understanding of English after at least 3 years of >>>>> school.
It's getting to the point where you can't believe a word the bloke
says. Just like his mental mate.
Must be something about the Dutch :)
And something about you pair is that you are both lazy and stupid.
So because Retcho allegedly got told something by a couple of clog-
wogs in the street then that's conclusive proof of the Dutch
education system. Jaysus wept! You pair are ridiculous.
Fyi, Mr AI says that "English is routinely taught in Dutch primary
schools, with a legal requirement for it to start by group 7 (around
age 10-11)...".
Well played boys.
They truly are dickheads
Coat tailing your little friend? what an entertaining double act you are.
In Thailand English has become mandatory in primary school from 4thCompletely irrelevant.
grade. I know because I was lumbered with a composite English class
(4-5-6) way back in 97. The reason for that is the limited spread of
Thai Language - not much use outside of Thailand or Laos.
On 5/01/2026 10:57 am, jonz wrote:
On 04-Jan-26 12:38 PM, Clocky wrote:
On 3/01/2026 8:52 pm, alvey wrote:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Noddy wrote:
On 3/01/2026 12:38 pm, Clocky wrote:
On 2/01/2026 6:46 pm, Noddy wrote:
Yeah, that's right. Like people who, when an intermittent fault >>>>>>> with an error code that cannot be retrieved can't get the fault >>>>>>> to occur when they're looking at the vehicle do a bit of lateral >>>>>>> thinking and swap parts around to see if the fault follows the
swap the next time it occurs which will positively identify the >>>>>>> cause.
LOL, lateral thinking back to the 70's and all you know - part
swapping in hope and ignorance.
Part substitution is a *legitimate* diagnostic tool!. Always has
been,always will be!.
If you know what you are doing, it can be the fastest and most
economical method of diagnosing some faults.
On 5/01/2026 10:50 pm, Clocky wrote:
On 5/01/2026 3:30 pm, Noddy wrote:
*None* of which applied to me as English was not taught in primary
school in the 70's when I was 9.
English in primary school only became commonplace long after I arrived
here.
As usual, you've danced your little dance. 97% of clog wearers speak
English and have done for some time according to various sources, and
that's probably more than here. But you never spoke a word of it until
you arrived here?
I'm calling bullshit.
On 5/01/2026 3:08 pm, Clocky wrote:
On 5/01/2026 9:28 am, keithr0 wrote:
On 5/01/2026 10:57 am, jonz wrote:
Part substitution is a *legitimate* diagnostic tool!. Always has
been,always will be!.
If you know what you are doing, it can be the fastest and most
economical method of diagnosing some faults.
Can be, but not in the specific example he gave.
And yet it pinpointed the fault and solved the problem. Go figure.
On 5/1/2026 12:25 pm, keithr0 wrote:
On 5/01/2026 10:59 am, Xeno wrote:
On 5/1/2026 7:10 am, alvey wrote:
Noddy wrote:
On 4/01/2026 10:14 pm, keithr0 wrote:
On 4/01/2026 10:41 am, Clocky wrote:
Bzzzzt. Another comprehension failure on your part. I said I
couldn't speak a word of English when I was 9. I didn't say I was >>>>>>> 9 when I started school here and it wasn't 1982 anyway.
That seems odd, I've visited the land of your birth several times, >>>>>> and have rarely met anybody who couldn't speak English. I've asked >>>>>> a couple of them why that is, the answer always was that they
started learning it as soon as they started school. So, I would
have thought that, unless you were particularly thick, you'd have >>>>>> at least a basic understanding of English after at least 3 years
of school.
It's getting to the point where you can't believe a word the bloke
says. Just like his mental mate.
Must be something about the Dutch :)
And something about you pair is that you are both lazy and stupid.
So because Retcho allegedly got told something by a couple of clog-
wogs in the street then that's conclusive proof of the Dutch
education system. Jaysus wept! You pair are ridiculous.
Fyi, Mr AI says that "English is routinely taught in Dutch primary
schools, with a legal requirement for it to start by group 7 (around
age 10-11)...".
Well played boys.
They truly are dickheads
Coat tailing your little friend? what an entertaining double act you are.
In Thailand English has become mandatory in primary school from 4thCompletely irrelevant.
grade. I know because I was lumbered with a composite English class
(4-5-6) way back in 97. The reason for that is the limited spread of
Thai Language - not much use outside of Thailand or Laos.
What is mandatory in schools isn't always what is the norm in society.
Some of my neighbors are from the Philippines, we were chatting one day
and I asked them if they had taught their children the language, they
said that they couldn't because they have never spoken it, they always
spoke English at home as did almost everyone they knew, the people are
in their late 40's to early 50's.
On 5/01/2026 3:16 pm, Noddy wrote:
Can be, but not in the specific example he gave.
And yet it pinpointed the fault and solved the problem. Go figure.
Only in your mind where this story resides you ridiculous incompetent twit.
On 5/1/2026 12:28 pm, keithr0 wrote:
On 5/01/2026 10:57 am, jonz wrote:Absolutely, a misfire on a particular cyl could be a bad coil, a bad
On 04-Jan-26 12:38 PM, Clocky wrote:
On 3/01/2026 8:52 pm, alvey wrote:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Noddy wrote:
On 3/01/2026 12:38 pm, Clocky wrote:
On 2/01/2026 6:46 pm, Noddy wrote:
Yeah, that's right. Like people who, when an intermittent fault >>>>>>>> with an error code that cannot be retrieved can't get the fault >>>>>>>> to occur when they're looking at the vehicle do a bit of lateral >>>>>>>> thinking and swap parts around to see if the fault follows the >>>>>>>> swap the next time it occurs which will positively identify the >>>>>>>> cause.
LOL, lateral thinking back to the 70's and all you know - part
swapping in hope and ignorance.
Part substitution is a *legitimate* diagnostic tool!. Always has
been,always will be!.
If you know what you are doing, it can be the fastest and most
economical method of diagnosing some faults.
plug or even bad ecu or wiring, to confirm the fault its common to swap parts to see if the fault code also moves.
On 6/01/2026 9:06 pm, Clocky wrote:
On 5/01/2026 3:16 pm, Noddy wrote:
Can be, but not in the specific example he gave.
And yet it pinpointed the fault and solved the problem. Go figure.
Only in your mind where this story resides you ridiculous incompetent
twit.
ROTFL :)
The penis envy is strong with me :)
On 5/01/2026 8:47 pm, Noddy wrote:
As usual, you've danced your little dance. 97% of clog wearers speak
English and have done for some time according to various sources, and
that's probably more than here. But you never spoke a word of it until
you arrived here?
I'm calling bullshit.
You can call it what you like, the facts don't lie.
On 5/01/2026 12:16 pm, Xeno wrote:
On 5/1/2026 3:08 pm, Clocky wrote:
On 5/01/2026 9:28 am, keithr0 wrote:
On 5/01/2026 10:57 am, jonz wrote:
On 04-Jan-26 12:38 PM, Clocky wrote:
On 3/01/2026 8:52 pm, alvey wrote:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Noddy wrote:
On 3/01/2026 12:38 pm, Clocky wrote:
On 2/01/2026 6:46 pm, Noddy wrote:
Yeah, that's right. Like people who, when an intermittent >>>>>>>>>> fault with an error code that cannot be retrieved can't get >>>>>>>>>> the fault to occur when they're looking at the vehicle do a >>>>>>>>>> bit of lateral thinking and swap parts around to see if the >>>>>>>>>> fault follows the swap the next time it occurs which will >>>>>>>>>> positively identify the cause.
LOL, lateral thinking back to the 70's and all you know - part >>>>>>>>> swapping in hope and ignorance.
Part substitution is a *legitimate* diagnostic tool!. Always has
been,always will be!.
If you know what you are doing, it can be the fastest and most
economical method of diagnosing some faults.
Can be, but not in the specific example he gave.
In fact his example didn't even make any sense to do that as the
first option which was the whole point I was making.
In fact Darren's example appeared to be quite contrived. Probably had
its gestation in one of his random delusions.
Definitely both, no doubt about it.
But as soon as he said he hadn't even bothered to plug in the very
tool that could have easily diagnose the fault I knew all I ever need
to know.
His story was BS or he is grossly incompetent or most likely both.
The story was good enough to fool enablers Jonz and Keith but they have
no experience with EFI systems nor are they critical thinkers.
On 5/1/2026 6:16 pm, Noddy wrote:
On 5/01/2026 3:08 pm, Clocky wrote:
On 5/01/2026 9:28 am, keithr0 wrote:
On 5/01/2026 10:57 am, jonz wrote:
Part substitution is a *legitimate* diagnostic tool!. Always has
been,always will be!.
If you know what you are doing, it can be the fastest and most
economical method of diagnosing some faults.
Can be, but not in the specific example he gave.
And yet it pinpointed the fault and solved the problem. Go figure.
A problem created in your imagination *does not count* Darren.
In fact his example didn't even make any sense to do that as the
first option which was the whole point I was making.
You never had a point, other than to demonstrate that you had zero
understanding of the workings of OBD2.
You clearly demonstrated that Darren when you invented an unlikely
scenario. You see, if the situation had presented itself as you stated,
it would have automatically generated *permanent DTCs*, it's the way the OBD2 system has been designed to work - protect the cat at all costs
But as soon as he said he hadn't even bothered to plug in the very
tool that could have easily diagnose the fault I knew all I ever need
to know.
Again, you cannot recall codes that have been permanently deleted once
the engine has gone through the minimum number of start cycles without
the fault reoccurring, and I challenge you to cite *any* reference
that shows this as *not* being the case.
You cannot delete a permanent code, it stays, you can't delete it, you
don't go anywhere.
His story was BS or he is grossly incompetent or most likely both.
The only person who is both incompetent *and* full of bullshit on this
matter is you. You have demonstrated an absolute and total lack of
understanding not only of the way the system works, but your idea of
using long term fuel trims to accurately diagnose a momentary misfire
was laughable in the extreme.
You are completely clueless, which is why you screw on mudflaps and
snorkels for a living.
On 6/1/2026 8:53 pm, Daryl wrote:
On 5/1/2026 12:28 pm, keithr0 wrote:The reality is - Darren *invented* the story.
On 5/01/2026 10:57 am, jonz wrote:Absolutely, a misfire on a particular cyl could be a bad coil, a bad
On 04-Jan-26 12:38 PM, Clocky wrote:
On 3/01/2026 8:52 pm, alvey wrote:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Noddy wrote:
On 3/01/2026 12:38 pm, Clocky wrote:
On 2/01/2026 6:46 pm, Noddy wrote:
Yeah, that's right. Like people who, when an intermittent fault >>>>>>>>> with an error code that cannot be retrieved can't get the fault >>>>>>>>> to occur when they're looking at the vehicle do a bit of
lateral thinking and swap parts around to see if the fault
follows the swap the next time it occurs which will positively >>>>>>>>> identify the cause.
LOL, lateral thinking back to the 70's and all you know - part >>>>>>>> swapping in hope and ignorance.
Part substitution is a *legitimate* diagnostic tool!. Always has
been,always will be!.
If you know what you are doing, it can be the fastest and most
economical method of diagnosing some faults.
plug or even bad ecu or wiring, to confirm the fault its common to
swap parts to see if the fault code also moves.
On 6/01/2026 8:58 pm, Clocky wrote:
On 5/01/2026 8:47 pm, Noddy wrote:
As usual, you've danced your little dance. 97% of clog wearers speak
English and have done for some time according to various sources, and
that's probably more than here. But you never spoke a word of it
until you arrived here?
I'm calling bullshit.
You can call it what you like, the facts don't lie.
*What* facts?
There is no irrefutable history of when English was taught in Dutch
schools, and there is-a irrefutable history of what year levels were subjected to it when it was. There is no irrefutable proof Dutch was the only language you spoke when you came to this country, and there isn't
even a comment about when that was.
There are no "facts" in use here. Just some fucking story from you with
the usual amount of support, which is zip.
On 5/01/2026 5:28 pm, Xeno wrote:
On 5/1/2026 6:16 pm, Noddy wrote:
On 5/01/2026 3:08 pm, Clocky wrote:
On 5/01/2026 9:28 am, keithr0 wrote:
On 5/01/2026 10:57 am, jonz wrote:
Part substitution is a *legitimate* diagnostic tool!. Always has
been,always will be!.
If you know what you are doing, it can be the fastest and most
economical method of diagnosing some faults.
Can be, but not in the specific example he gave.
And yet it pinpointed the fault and solved the problem. Go figure.
A problem created in your imagination *does not count* Darren.
In fact his example didn't even make any sense to do that as the
first option which was the whole point I was making.
You never had a point, other than to demonstrate that you had zero
understanding of the workings of OBD2.
You clearly demonstrated that Darren when you invented an unlikely
scenario. You see, if the situation had presented itself as you
stated, it would have automatically generated *permanent DTCs*, it's
the way the OBD2 system has been designed to work - protect the cat at
all costs
But as soon as he said he hadn't even bothered to plug in the very
tool that could have easily diagnose the fault I knew all I ever
need to know.
Again, you cannot recall codes that have been permanently deleted
once the engine has gone through the minimum number of start cycles
without the fault reoccurring, and I challenge you to cite *any*
reference that shows this as *not* being the case.
You cannot delete a permanent code, it stays, you can't delete it, you
don't go anywhere.
So, does it stay in the ECU until the day that the car goes to the
scrappy, or does it clear after a number of cycles without
re-occurrence?
His story was BS or he is grossly incompetent or most likely both.
The only person who is both incompetent *and* full of bullshit on
this matter is you. You have demonstrated an absolute and total lack
of understanding not only of the way the system works, but your idea
of using long term fuel trims to accurately diagnose a momentary
misfire was laughable in the extreme.
You are completely clueless, which is why you screw on mudflaps and
snorkels for a living.
On 6/01/2026 8:55 pm, Xeno wrote:
On 6/1/2026 8:53 pm, Daryl wrote:The reality is that you have run out of argument, and are trying to
On 5/1/2026 12:28 pm, keithr0 wrote:The reality is - Darren *invented* the story.
On 5/01/2026 10:57 am, jonz wrote:Absolutely, a misfire on a particular cyl could be a bad coil, a bad
On 04-Jan-26 12:38 PM, Clocky wrote:
On 3/01/2026 8:52 pm, alvey wrote:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Noddy wrote:
On 3/01/2026 12:38 pm, Clocky wrote:
On 2/01/2026 6:46 pm, Noddy wrote:
Yeah, that's right. Like people who, when an intermittent >>>>>>>>>> fault with an error code that cannot be retrieved can't get >>>>>>>>>> the fault to occur when they're looking at the vehicle do a >>>>>>>>>> bit of lateral thinking and swap parts around to see if the >>>>>>>>>> fault follows the swap the next time it occurs which will >>>>>>>>>> positively identify the cause.
LOL, lateral thinking back to the 70's and all you know - part >>>>>>>>> swapping in hope and ignorance.
Part substitution is a *legitimate* diagnostic tool!. Always has
been,always will be!.
If you know what you are doing, it can be the fastest and most
economical method of diagnosing some faults.
plug or even bad ecu or wiring, to confirm the fault its common to
swap parts to see if the fault code also moves.
pretend that it didn't happen.
On 5/01/2026 5:28 pm, Xeno wrote:
You cannot delete a permanent code, it stays, you can't delete it, you
don't go anywhere.
So, does it stay in the ECU until the day that the car goes to the
scrappy, or does it clear after a number of cycles without
re-occurrence?
On 6/01/2026 8:55 pm, Xeno wrote:
The reality is - Darren *invented* the story.The reality is that you have run out of argument, and are trying to
pretend that it didn't happen.
On 6/01/2026 8:58 pm, Clocky wrote:
On 5/01/2026 8:47 pm, Noddy wrote:
As usual, you've danced your little dance. 97% of clog wearers speak
English and have done for some time according to various sources, and
that's probably more than here. But you never spoke a word of it
until you arrived here?
I'm calling bullshit.
You can call it what you like, the facts don't lie.
*What* facts?
On 6/01/2026 7:00 pm, Noddy wrote:
On 6/01/2026 8:58 pm, Clocky wrote:
On 5/01/2026 8:47 pm, Noddy wrote:
As usual, you've danced your little dance. 97% of clog wearers speak
English and have done for some time according to various sources,
and that's probably more than here. But you never spoke a word of it
until you arrived here?
I'm calling bullshit.
You can call it what you like, the facts don't lie.
*What* facts?
The information in *your* links *you* posted that unsurprisingly match
my reality you fucking dumbarse.
On 7/01/2026 1:51 am, Clocky wrote:
On 6/01/2026 7:00 pm, Noddy wrote:
On 6/01/2026 8:58 pm, Clocky wrote:
On 5/01/2026 8:47 pm, Noddy wrote:
As usual, you've danced your little dance. 97% of clog wearers
speak English and have done for some time according to various
sources, and that's probably more than here. But you never spoke a
word of it until you arrived here?
I'm calling bullshit.
You can call it what you like, the facts don't lie.
*What* facts?
The information in *your* links *you* posted that unsurprisingly match
my reality you fucking dumbarse.
The information in the links I provided had no definitive information whatsoever, which was precisely the *point*.
*Jesus* you're a fucking idiot....
On 7/01/2026 1:51 am, Clocky wrote:
On 6/01/2026 7:00 pm, Noddy wrote:
On 6/01/2026 8:58 pm, Clocky wrote:
On 5/01/2026 8:47 pm, Noddy wrote:
As usual, you've danced your little dance. 97% of clog wearers
speak English and have done for some time according to various
sources, and that's probably more than here. But you never spoke a
word of it until you arrived here?
I'm calling bullshit.
You can call it what you like, the facts don't lie.
*What* facts?
The information in *your* links *you* posted that unsurprisingly match
my reality you fucking dumbarse.
The information in the links I provided had no definitive information whatsoever, which was precisely the *point*.
*Jesus* you're a fucking idiot....
On 6/01/2026 10:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
On 5/01/2026 5:28 pm, Xeno wrote:
You cannot delete a permanent code, it stays, you can't delete it,
you don't go anywhere.
So, does it stay in the ECU until the day that the car goes to the
scrappy, or does it clear after a number of cycles without
re-occurrence?
Jesus.... This moron plays musical chairs with his position on this crap
so often it defies belief. He clearly has the recall of a dead goldfish :)
This has been done to death. There are three types of OBD2 error codes: Pending, stored and Permanent, and they all relate to the number of
times a fault occurs relative to the engine's rpm. Each component that
is monitored for faults by the ECU has a cycle count limit, and how the fault occurs relative to that cycle count determines the type of fault classification it carries.
A Pending code is triggered when the ECU detects a momentary fault which *doesn't* occur enough times to fall outside the maximum number of
cycles before correcting itself. In such cases, the ECU recognises that
the fault has occurred, but because it was only brief it remains
unconfirmed and the check engine light is *not* illuminated. If the
fault does not occur again then the code is deleted after a pre set time without anyone knowing anything about it.
A Stored code is triggered when the ECU detects a fault that *does* fall outside the maximum number of cycles before correcting itself. In such cases, the ECU detects the fault and recognises that it repeated itself enough for it to be confirmed, in which case it *does* illuminate the
check engine light to alert the driver that a fault has occurred. In
such a case, a Check Engine Light that is the result of a stored code trigger can be deleted using a code scanner, and it will remain off
until such time as either the fault occurs again in which case the light will reappear, or the fault clears itself and goes away.
A Permanent code is triggered when there is a hard failure of a
component that never comes back to life and the ECU records continuous failure cycles. In such cases, the Check Engine Light is illuminated and *cannot* be deleted until such time as the fault is repaired. Once it is
and the light is cleared it will stay off unless the fault occurs again.
In some cases, not all, there is also freeze frame data stored that is
saved along with the code, which is a snapshot of the state of the
engine's parameters at the time the fault was detected which can make diagnosis a hell of a lot easier. However, like the codes themselves,
the freeze frame data is *not* permanently stored.
In all of these examples, the one thing they all have in common is that there is a minimum number of engine restart cycles that controls how
long the codes remain active, and for most engines/vehicles that number
is 40. After 40 successive restarts with no faults being recorded, any stored codes are erased, and they are erased *permanently*. Nothing is
kept, and there is no historical information that can be retrieved weeks
or months after the fault has been rectified and the minimum number of successful restarts reached. It's all wiped. Every bit of it.
And there is a couple of compelling reasons for that.
Firstly, most vehicle ECU's have *very* little EEPROM storage capacity,
and this space is usually shared by Identity information, driver
learning trims, and fault codes. Depending how many faults a vehicle had over the course of it's life, if fault codes were stored permanently
then the ECU would run out of storage capacity before too long :)
Secondly, and probably most logically, if a vehicle had a fault that was repaired and the code cleared, there is absolutely zero need for a
permanent record of that to be kept in the ECU. It would be totally redundant information that served no purpose whatsoever.
This is the way OBD2 has always worked despite the claims of a couple of
clueless "experts", and any suggestion that fault codes remain with the vehicle forever and can be recalled at any time is pure fantasy invented
by people who have zero experience.
In the case of the R8 Clubsport with the cylinder misfire issue that
ignited this debate to begin with, I knew from the getgo that as it had
been more than a fortnight since the fault had last occurred and the
owner cleared the code that the car had gone through *way* more than the minimum number of start cycles for the code to be permanently deleted
which meant plugging in my code scanner would be a total waste of time.
Instead I took the information the owner had given me in relation to the code type, determined that it was either a fuel or a spark issue, and swapped parts around which I knew would confirm one or the other the
next time it happened.
Which is exactly what it did.
Codes are not permanently stored for perpetuity. The fact that the pair
of these morons think they are tells anyone who would care to do their
own research that these two imbeciles have absolutely no idea what
they're talking about.
On 6/1/2026 8:48 pm, Daryl wrote:
On 5/1/2026 12:25 pm, keithr0 wrote:
Hey, you really aren't helping your hero very much. Try thinking before writing, might help.
On 6/01/2026 8:58 pm, Clocky wrote:
On 5/01/2026 8:47 pm, Noddy wrote:
As usual, you've danced your little dance. 97% of clog wearers speak
English and have done for some time according to various sources, and
that's probably more than here. But you never spoke a word of it
until you arrived here?
I'm calling bullshit.
You can call it what you like, the facts don't lie.
*What* facts?
There is no irrefutable history of when English was taught in Dutch
schools, and there is-a irrefutable history of what year levels were subjected to it when it was. There is no irrefutable proof Dutch was the only language you spoke when you came to this country, and there isn't
even a comment about when that was.
There are no "facts" in use here. Just some fucking story from you with
the usual amount of support, which is zip.
On 6/01/2026 9:06 pm, Clocky wrote:
On 5/01/2026 3:16 pm, Noddy wrote:
Can be, but not in the specific example he gave.
And yet it pinpointed the fault and solved the problem. Go figure.
Only in your mind where this story resides you ridiculous incompetent
twit.
ROTFL :)
The penis envy is strong with you :)
On 6/01/2026 8:55 pm, Xeno wrote:
The reality is that you have run out of argument, and are trying toAbsolutely, a misfire on a particular cyl could be a bad coil, a badThe reality is - Darren *invented* the story.
plug or even bad ecu or wiring, to confirm the fault its common to
swap parts to see if the fault code also moves.
pretend that it didn't happen.
On 7/01/2026 1:51 am, Clocky wrote:
On 6/01/2026 7:00 pm, Noddy wrote:
On 6/01/2026 8:58 pm, Clocky wrote:
On 5/01/2026 8:47 pm, Noddy wrote:
As usual, you've danced your little dance. 97% of clog wearers
speak English and have done for some time according to various
sources, and that's probably more than here. But you never spoke a
word of it until you arrived here?
I'm calling bullshit.
You can call it what you like, the facts don't lie.
*What* facts?
The information in *your* links *you* posted that unsurprisingly match
my reality you fucking dumbarse.
The information in the links I provided had no definitive information whatsoever, which was precisely the *point*.
On 6/01/2026 9:06 pm, Clocky wrote:
On 5/01/2026 3:16 pm, Noddy wrote:
Can be, but not in the specific example he gave.
And yet it pinpointed the fault and solved the problem. Go figure.
Only in your mind where this story resides you ridiculous incompetent
twit.
ROTFL :)
The penis envy is strong with you :)
On 5/01/2026 5:28 pm, Xeno wrote:
On 5/1/2026 6:16 pm, Noddy wrote:
On 5/01/2026 3:08 pm, Clocky wrote:
On 5/01/2026 9:28 am, keithr0 wrote:
On 5/01/2026 10:57 am, jonz wrote:
Part substitution is a *legitimate* diagnostic tool!. Always has
been,always will be!.
If you know what you are doing, it can be the fastest and most
economical method of diagnosing some faults.
Can be, but not in the specific example he gave.
And yet it pinpointed the fault and solved the problem. Go figure.
A problem created in your imagination *does not count* Darren.
In fact his example didn't even make any sense to do that as the
first option which was the whole point I was making.
You never had a point, other than to demonstrate that you had zero
understanding of the workings of OBD2.
You clearly demonstrated that Darren when you invented an unlikely
scenario. You see, if the situation had presented itself as you
stated, it would have automatically generated *permanent DTCs*, it's
the way the OBD2 system has been designed to work - protect the cat at
all costs
But as soon as he said he hadn't even bothered to plug in the very
tool that could have easily diagnose the fault I knew all I ever
need to know.
Again, you cannot recall codes that have been permanently deleted
once the engine has gone through the minimum number of start cycles
without the fault reoccurring, and I challenge you to cite *any*
reference that shows this as *not* being the case.
You cannot delete a permanent code, it stays, you can't delete it, you
don't go anywhere.
So, does it stay in the ECU until the day that the car goes to the
scrappy, or does it clear after a number of cycles without
re-occurrence?
don't go anywhere".
His story was BS or he is grossly incompetent or most likely both.
The only person who is both incompetent *and* full of bullshit on
this matter is you. You have demonstrated an absolute and total lack
of understanding not only of the way the system works, but your idea
of using long term fuel trims to accurately diagnose a momentary
misfire was laughable in the extreme.
You are completely clueless, which is why you screw on mudflaps and
snorkels for a living.
On 06-Jan-26 10:39 PM, keithr0 wrote:
So, does it stay in the ECU until the day that the car goes to the
scrappy, or does it clear after a number of cycles without
re-occurrence?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
That is exactly what happens, it *clears*!....
-aSo *this* is a rubbish comment!.
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a "You cannot delete a permanent code, it stays, you
can't delete it, you
don't go anywhere".
On 7/01/2026 1:52 pm, jonz wrote:
On 06-Jan-26 10:39 PM, keithr0 wrote:
So, does it stay in the ECU until the day that the car goes to the
scrappy, or does it clear after a number of cycles without
re-occurrence?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
That is exactly what happens, it *clears*!....
Yep. It's designed to, and has been since the day dot.
-aSo *this* is a rubbish comment!.
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a "You cannot delete a permanent code, it stays, you
can't delete it, you
don't go anywhere".
ROTFL :)
The bloke is absolutely clueless, and a fucking embarrassment. He really
has no idea at all and just makes shit up :)
Noddy <me@home.com> wrote:
On 7/01/2026 1:52 pm, jonz wrote:Darren, making shit up is *your* forte, and yourCOve been building on your experience in bullshitting for decades. CanrCOt say yourCOve gained much from your experience, your bullshit and lies are pretty transparent. Maybe itrCOs all the errors you make, like claiming Glover is a Dutch surname. That was
On 06-Jan-26 10:39 PM, keithr0 wrote:
So, does it stay in the ECU until the day that the car goes to the
scrappy, or does it clear after a number of cycles without
re-occurrence?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
That is exactly what happens, it *clears*!....
Yep. It's designed to, and has been since the day dot.
-aSo *this* is a rubbish comment!.
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a "You cannot delete a permanent code, it stays, you
can't delete it, you
don't go anywhere".
ROTFL :)
The bloke is absolutely clueless, and a fucking embarrassment. He really
has no idea at all and just makes shit up :)
a good one, care to try again? Now my surname, thatrCOs as Dutch as you could get.
Noddy <me@home.com> wrote:
On 7/01/2026 1:52 pm, jonz wrote:Darren, making shit up is *your* forte, and yourCOve been building on your experience in bullshitting for decades. CanrCOt say yourCOve gained much from your experience, your bullshit and lies are pretty transparent. Maybe itrCOs all the errors you make, like claiming Glover is a Dutch surname. That was
On 06-Jan-26 10:39 PM, keithr0 wrote:
So, does it stay in the ECU until the day that the car goes to the
scrappy, or does it clear after a number of cycles without
re-occurrence?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
That is exactly what happens, it *clears*!....
Yep. It's designed to, and has been since the day dot.
-aSo *this* is a rubbish comment!.
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a "You cannot delete a permanent code, it stays, you
can't delete it, you
don't go anywhere".
ROTFL :)
The bloke is absolutely clueless, and a fucking embarrassment. He really
has no idea at all and just makes shit up :)
a good one, care to try again? Now my surname, thatrCOs as Dutch as you could get.
On 8/01/2026 3:50 pm, Xeno wrote:
Noddy <me@home.com> wrote:
On 7/01/2026 1:52 pm, jonz wrote:
On 06-Jan-26 10:39 PM, keithr0 wrote:
So, does it stay in the ECU until the day that the car goes to the
scrappy, or does it clear after a number of cycles without
re-occurrence?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
That is exactly what happens, it *clears*!....
Yep. It's designed to, and has been since the day dot.
-a-aSo *this* is a rubbish comment!.
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a "You cannot delete a permanent code, it stays,
you
can't delete it, you
don't go anywhere".
ROTFL :)
The bloke is absolutely clueless, and a fucking embarrassment. He really >>> has no idea at all and just makes shit up :)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Darren, making shit up is *your* forte, and yourCOve been building on your >> experience in bullshitting for decades. CanrCOt say yourCOve gained much from
your experience, your bullshit and lies are pretty transparent. Maybe
itrCOs
all the errors you make, like claiming Glover is a Dutch surname. That
was
a good one, care to try again? Now my surname, thatrCOs as Dutch as you
could
get.
Those two useless unqualified gimps are wanking themselves dry over something neither of them have any experience with or understand.
FFS the fraud laughably stated that GM's Tech 2 doesn't do OBD-II such
is his incompetence, no wonder then that he's shotgunning in hope part swapping like it's 1970 in this fantasy story of his...
On 6/1/2026 11:47 pm, Noddy wrote:
On 6/01/2026 10:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
On 5/01/2026 5:28 pm, Xeno wrote:
You cannot delete a permanent code, it stays, you can't delete it,
you don't go anywhere.
So, does it stay in the ECU until the day that the car goes to the
scrappy, or does it clear after a number of cycles without
re-occurrence?
Jesus.... This moron plays musical chairs with his position on this
crap so often it defies belief. He clearly has the recall of a dead
goldfish :)
This has been done to death. There are three types of OBD2 error
codes: Pending, stored and Permanent, and they all relate to the
number of times a fault occurs relative to the engine's rpm. Each
component that is monitored for faults by the ECU has a cycle count
limit, and how the fault occurs relative to that cycle count
determines the type of fault classification it carries.
A Pending code is triggered when the ECU detects a momentary fault
which *doesn't* occur enough times to fall outside the maximum number
of cycles before correcting itself. In such cases, the ECU recognises
that the fault has occurred, but because it was only brief it remains
unconfirmed and the check engine light is *not* illuminated. If the
fault does not occur again then the code is deleted after a pre set
time without anyone knowing anything about it.
A Stored code is triggered when the ECU detects a fault that *does*
fall outside the maximum number of cycles before correcting itself. In
such cases, the ECU detects the fault and recognises that it repeated
itself enough for it to be confirmed, in which case it *does*
illuminate the check engine light to alert the driver that a fault has
occurred. In such a case, a Check Engine Light that is the result of a
stored code trigger can be deleted using a code scanner, and it will
remain off until such time as either the fault occurs again in which
case the light will reappear, or the fault clears itself and goes away.
A Permanent code is triggered when there is a hard failure of a
component that never comes back to life and the ECU records continuous
failure cycles. In such cases, the Check Engine Light is illuminated
and *cannot* be deleted until such time as the fault is repaired. Once
it is and the light is cleared it will stay off unless the fault
occurs again.
In some cases, not all, there is also freeze frame data stored that is
saved along with the code, which is a snapshot of the state of the
engine's parameters at the time the fault was detected which can make
diagnosis a hell of a lot easier. However, like the codes themselves,
the freeze frame data is *not* permanently stored.
In all of these examples, the one thing they all have in common is
that there is a minimum number of engine restart cycles that controls
how long the codes remain active, and for most engines/vehicles that
number is 40. After 40 successive restarts with no faults being
recorded, any stored codes are erased, and they are erased
*permanently*. Nothing is kept, and there is no historical information
that can be retrieved weeks or months after the fault has been
rectified and the minimum number of successful restarts reached. It's
all wiped. Every bit of it.
And there is a couple of compelling reasons for that.
Firstly, most vehicle ECU's have *very* little EEPROM storage
capacity, and this space is usually shared by Identity information,
driver learning trims, and fault codes. Depending how many faults a
vehicle had over the course of it's life, if fault codes were stored
permanently then the ECU would run out of storage capacity before too
long :)
Secondly, and probably most logically, if a vehicle had a fault that
was repaired and the code cleared, there is absolutely zero need for a
permanent record of that to be kept in the ECU. It would be totally
redundant information that served no purpose whatsoever.
In the era of emissions testing, and emissions testing *cheaters*, I can
see a whole host of reasons why *history data* should be retained.
This is the way OBD2 has always worked despite the claims of a couple of
Nope, OBD2 has been progressively become much more comprehensive. The
OBD2 system has not been static since the day it was first implemented,
that much is certain.
clueless "experts", and any suggestion that fault codes remain with
the vehicle forever and can be recalled at any time is pure fantasy
invented by people who have zero experience.
In the case of the R8 Clubsport with the cylinder misfire issue that
ignited this debate to begin with, I knew from the getgo that as it
had been more than a fortnight since the fault had last occurred and
the owner cleared the code that the car had gone through *way* more
than the minimum number of start cycles for the code to be permanently
deleted which meant plugging in my code scanner would be a total waste
of time.
FFS Darren, you weren't even *aware* of *Permanent DTCs*
And said codes wouldn't be injector or spark related codes, they would
be *emissions related* codes since such misfires would trigger a
multitude of *emissions faults*. Again, you lack an understanding of how
the system operates and the inbuilt dependencies. That's why a *code
reader* in your hands is a waste of time and money. In your hands a code reader turns into a parts cannon. You didn't use a scanner because you
had no clue how to interpret the data.
In your delusions!
Instead I took the information the owner had given me in relation to
the code type, determined that it was either a fuel or a spark issue,
and swapped parts around which I knew would confirm one or the other
the next time it happened.
Which is exactly what it did.
No one has ever said PDTCs remain in the ECU into perpetuity. What has
Codes are not permanently stored for perpetuity. The fact that the
pair of these morons think they are tells anyone who would care to do
their own research that these two imbeciles have absolutely no idea
what they're talking about.
been stated has been that the codes must be removed by the ECU itself.
In order to do that the fault must be rectified, the 40 - 80 drive
cycles completed and a minimum of 300 kilometres of drivetime covered.
Random faults do not allow the above to occur.
On 6/1/2026 10:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
On 5/01/2026 5:28 pm, Xeno wrote:
On 5/1/2026 6:16 pm, Noddy wrote:
On 5/01/2026 3:08 pm, Clocky wrote:
On 5/01/2026 9:28 am, keithr0 wrote:
On 5/01/2026 10:57 am, jonz wrote:
Part substitution is a *legitimate* diagnostic tool!. Always has >>>>>>> been,always will be!.
If you know what you are doing, it can be the fastest and most
economical method of diagnosing some faults.
Can be, but not in the specific example he gave.
And yet it pinpointed the fault and solved the problem. Go figure.
A problem created in your imagination *does not count* Darren.
In fact his example didn't even make any sense to do that as the
first option which was the whole point I was making.
You never had a point, other than to demonstrate that you had zero
understanding of the workings of OBD2.
You clearly demonstrated that Darren when you invented an unlikely
scenario. You see, if the situation had presented itself as you
stated, it would have automatically generated *permanent DTCs*, it's
the way the OBD2 system has been designed to work - protect the cat
at all costs
But as soon as he said he hadn't even bothered to plug in the very
tool that could have easily diagnose the fault I knew all I ever
need to know.
Again, you cannot recall codes that have been permanently deleted
once the engine has gone through the minimum number of start cycles
without the fault reoccurring, and I challenge you to cite *any*
reference that shows this as *not* being the case.
You cannot delete a permanent code, it stays, you can't delete it,
you don't go anywhere.
So, does it stay in the ECU until the day that the car goes to the
scrappy, or does it clear after a number of cycles without
re-occurrence?
For a car to enter a mode that required the owner to clear it, it would require it to set a *permanent code* and a standard OBD2 reader cannot
clear a permanent DTC. These codes are specifically designed to remain
in the system until the underlying emissions-related fault is genuinely fixed and the vehicle's computer confirms the repair over several drive cycles, with the only way to clear them being to resolve the issue and
allow the car to complete all the necessary monitors.
CAT related PDTCs
require the maximum number of cycles. After all, the reason the ECU sets permanent codes is to protect the CAT. Therefore Darren's story is
flawed from the get go. Remember, Darren initially stated the owner had
to clear the codes to keep using the vehicle. Bzzztt, I call bullshit.
If it got to the stage where the vehicle couldn't be driven and needed a code clearing, then I know a simple code reader isn't going to cut it.
Did I mention, the *historical* freeze frames, up to 7 typically, would remain on many vehicles and these can be read by factory scantools and
upper end non dealer scanners.
On 5/01/2026 12:15 pm, keithr0 wrote:
On 5/01/2026 1:37 pm, Clocky wrote:
On 5/01/2026 9:23 am, keithr0 wrote:
On 5/01/2026 6:10 am, alvey wrote:
Noddy wrote:
On 4/01/2026 10:14 pm, keithr0 wrote:
On 4/01/2026 10:41 am, Clocky wrote:
Bzzzzt. Another comprehension failure on your part. I said I
couldn't speak a word of English when I was 9. I didn't say I >>>>>>>> was 9 when I started school here and it wasn't 1982 anyway.
That seems odd, I've visited the land of your birth several
times, and have rarely met anybody who couldn't speak English.
I've asked a couple of them why that is, the answer always was
that they started learning it as soon as they started school. So, >>>>>>> I would have thought that, unless you were particularly thick,
you'd have at least a basic understanding of English after at
least 3 years of school.
It's getting to the point where you can't believe a word the bloke >>>>>> says. Just like his mental mate.
Must be something about the Dutch :)
And something about you pair is that you are both lazy and stupid.
So because Retcho allegedly got told something by a couple of clog- >>>>> wogs in the street then that's conclusive proof of the Dutch
education system. Jaysus wept! You pair are ridiculous.
The "Clogwogs" are rather more likely to know something about the
subject than you or your "AI". Jaysus wept! You are ridiculous.
We know nothig about your "Clogwogs" except that you probably
invented them.
Unlike you, I don't invent lies.
In that case you need to provide greater details of your Clogwogs to determine why they might have made that comment which doesn't apply to anyone who was schooled in NL in the 70's and under age 10.
keithr0 wrote:
On 5/01/2026 1:37 pm, Clocky wrote:
On 5/01/2026 9:23 am, keithr0 wrote:
On 5/01/2026 6:10 am, alvey wrote:
We know nothig about your "Clogwogs" except that you probably
invented them.
Unlike you, I don't invent lies.
No-one to blame but yourself for your tales being doubted Ritcho. You
know the adage, "If you lay down with Darrens..."
On 5/1/2026 6:30 pm, Noddy wrote:
On 5/01/2026 3:29 pm, Clocky wrote:
On 5/01/2026 12:14 pm, keithr0 wrote:
Irrelevant. You made the statement that I should have been taught
English in early primary school based on the statement of two
unknown individuals of unknown age and have been shown why that is
false.
Nope upright Dutch citizens, with no reason to lie.
"I've asked a couple of them why that is, the answer always was
that they started learning it as soon as they started school."
Not in the 70's they most certainly didn't and if so not until the
early 90's and you have been shown why that is.
The wiki article on the subject:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language_in_the_Netherlands
Hmmm, nothing in that link mentions specific dates or eras, it mostly
refers to the here and now. In fact, is still refers to children
starting English classes at age 10 and up.
And here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_education_by_region
From your own link. And that is reflective of *contemporary times*.
Clocky was schooled in the 70s, hardly relevant to *now*.
-a-a-a On average in Europe, at the start of foreign language teaching,
-a-a-a pupils have lessons for three to four hours a week. Compulsory
-a-a-a lessons in a foreign language normally start at the end of
-a-a-a primary school or the start of secondary school.
It would appear that English is a very common language in that part of
*is*, not *was*. French and German were common in Clocky's time.
the world, and has been part of the school curriculum for longer thanNobody is arguing that Darren, the real issue is at what age. Clocky
you make out :)
left the NL before he aged into compulsory English classes - and that is
the point you cannot understand.
And, as usual, Darren provides links that, he does not read, does not understand, show that Clocky is correct.
On 5/1/2026 11:47 pm, Noddy wrote:
On 5/01/2026 10:50 pm, Clocky wrote:
On 5/01/2026 3:30 pm, Noddy wrote:
*None* of which applied to me as English was not taught in primary
school in the 70's when I was 9.
English in primary school only became commonplace long after I
arrived here.
As usual, you've danced your little dance. 97% of clog wearers speak
English and have done for some time according to various sources, and
that's probably more than here. But you never spoke a word of it until
you arrived here?
I'm calling bullshit.
You? Calling bullshit? That's the laugh of the century right there!
Next you'll be telling us you had *first hand experience* in the
Netherlands of the 70s.
Just between you and I, Clocky's credence here is way greater than
yours. You see, his is a *lived experience*, he was actually there in
the era concerned. What's more, he attended school there! You don't get
more direct firsthand experience than that!
Your singular experience is reading Wikipedia articles that prove your limited depth of understanding.
A perfect example;
-a-a In the following decades, with American-dominated globalization,
-a-a English gradually increased in importance as a lingua franca, at
-a-a the expense of both German and French, which lost popularity as
-a-a second languages in the latter half of the 20th century.
Clocky said German and French were the second languages of his era, the above excerpt from Wikipedia bears that out and there is plenty of
evidence that, once English became dominant, it was initially taught
beyond the age of 10 - and not before.
Again Darren, you are in no position to call bullshit on Clocky's *lived experience* so I suggest you pull your head in and STFU.
On 5/01/2026 3:20 pm, Noddy wrote:
On 5/01/2026 2:58 pm, Clocky wrote:
On 5/01/2026 11:17 am, keithr0 wrote:
You did not post a fact, you posted the output of some unknown "AI".
If you think that I stopped some random "Clogwogs" in the street,
you are even more stupid that I have given you credit for, these
were intelligent people with whom I had a social relationship, far
more reliable than some anonymous clown from the Sunshine Coast.
Irrelevant. You made the statement that I should have been taught
English in early primary school based on the statement of two unknown
individuals of unknown age and have been shown why that is false.
So answer a direct question. Did they teach English in schools during
your time there, and what period are we talking about?
Not in primary school and not in the 70's and not when I was 9.
It wasn't taught until upper primary/secondary school but I was here by then.
You can't admit the basis of your comment was false and are failing
to squirm your way out of your predicament.
You're the one that can clear this up given you were there, but I'm
tipping that you'll do your usual act of dancing around the subject
rather than be definitive.
I've already answered it elsewhere.
BTW, your use of the term "Clogwogs" is both demeaning to your
friend clocky, and possibly in breach of hate speech laws.
No need to get offended on my behalf you ridiculous prat. I call
myself a "Clogwog" too.
Surely you can-a do better than that.
The truth will do.
Noddy wrote:
On 6/01/2026 8:58 pm, Clocky wrote:
On 5/01/2026 8:47 pm, Noddy wrote:
As usual, you've danced your little dance. 97% of clog wearers speak
English and have done for some time according to various sources,
and that's probably more than here. But you never spoke a word of it
until you arrived here?
I'm calling bullshit.
You can call it what you like, the facts don't lie.
*What* facts?
There is no irrefutable history of when English was taught in Dutch
schools, and there is-a irrefutable history of what year levels were
subjected to it when it was. There is no irrefutable proof Dutch was
the only language you spoke when you came to this country, and there
isn't even a comment about when that was.
There are no "facts" in use here. Just some fucking story from you
with the usual amount of support, which is zip.
Oh give it up Buffo.
Despite your desperate squealing, the case against Richo's snipe has
been comprehensively quashed. And despite the hard evidence that has
been supplied, the most compelling proof is that Richo has run away.
On 6/01/2026 9:58 pm, Xeno wrote:
For a car to enter a mode that required the owner to clear it, it
would require it to set a *permanent code* and a standard OBD2
reader cannot clear a permanent DTC. These codes are specifically
designed to remain in the system until the underlying emissions-
related fault is genuinely fixed and the vehicle's computer
confirms the repair over several drive cycles, with the only way
to clear them being to resolve the issue and allow the car to
complete all the necessary monitors.
So "Permanent" codes aren't permanent, just longer lived. They will
clear id the condition is fixed, or, if it was only a transient
condition, and didn't re-occur for some number of cycles.
CAT related PDTCs require the maximum number of cycles. After all,
the reason the ECU sets permanent codes is to protect the CAT.
Therefore Darren's story is flawed from the get go. Remember,
Darren initially stated the owner had to clear the codes to keep
using the vehicle. Bzzztt, I call bullshit. If it got to the stage
where the vehicle couldn't be driven and needed a code clearing,
then I know a simple code reader isn't going to cut it. Did I
mention, the *historical* freeze frames, up to 7 typically, would
remain on many vehicles and these can be read by factory scantools
and upper end non dealer scanners.
A manufacturer may include more, but OBD2 only requires 1
No, freeze frame data is not permanently stored; it's a temporary
snapshot tied to a specific fault code and can be erased when the
code is cleared, the battery is disconnected, or a higher-priority
fault occurs, overriding older data. It's stored in the vehicle's
memory until a reset action, but it's not indefinite, disappearing
with clearing actions or new, significant issues, though "Permanent
DTCs" (PDTCs) require fixing the underlying problem and driving
cycles to clear.
On 5/01/2026 5:49 pm, Xeno wrote:
On 5/1/2026 6:30 pm, Noddy wrote:
On 5/01/2026 3:29 pm, Clocky wrote:
On 5/01/2026 12:14 pm, keithr0 wrote:
Irrelevant. You made the statement that I should have been taught >>>>>> English in early primary school based on the statement of two
unknown individuals of unknown age and have been shown why that is >>>>>> false.
Nope upright Dutch citizens, with no reason to lie.
"I've asked a couple of them why that is, the answer always was
that they started learning it as soon as they started school."
Not in the 70's they most certainly didn't and if so not until the
early 90's and you have been shown why that is.
The wiki article on the subject:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language_in_the_Netherlands
Hmmm, nothing in that link mentions specific dates or eras, it mostly
refers to the here and now. In fact, is still refers to children
starting English classes at age 10 and up.
And here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_education_by_region
-aFrom your own link. And that is reflective of *contemporary times*.
Clocky was schooled in the 70s, hardly relevant to *now*.
-a-a-a-a On average in Europe, at the start of foreign language teaching,
-a-a-a-a pupils have lessons for three to four hours a week. Compulsory
-a-a-a-a lessons in a foreign language normally start at the end of
-a-a-a-a primary school or the start of secondary school.
It would appear that English is a very common language in that part of
*is*, not *was*. French and German were common in Clocky's time.
It was in 1955 when I first visited Amsterdam as a teenager.
the world, and has been part of the school curriculum for longer thanNobody is arguing that Darren, the real issue is at what age. Clocky
you make out :)
left the NL before he aged into compulsory English classes - and that
is the point you cannot understand.
And, as usual, Darren provides links that, he does not read, does not
understand, show that Clocky is correct.
On 6/01/2026 7:58 am, Xeno wrote:
On 5/1/2026 11:47 pm, Noddy wrote:
On 5/01/2026 10:50 pm, Clocky wrote:
On 5/01/2026 3:30 pm, Noddy wrote:
*None* of which applied to me as English was not taught in primary
school in the 70's when I was 9.
English in primary school only became commonplace long after I
arrived here.
As usual, you've danced your little dance. 97% of clog wearers speak
English and have done for some time according to various sources, and
that's probably more than here. But you never spoke a word of it
until you arrived here?
I'm calling bullshit.
You? Calling bullshit? That's the laugh of the century right there!
Next you'll be telling us you had *first hand experience* in the
Netherlands of the 70s.
I had first hand experience of the Netherlands of the 50s.
Just between you and I, Clocky's credence here is way greater than
yours. You see, his is a *lived experience*, he was actually there in
the era concerned. What's more, he attended school there! You don't
get more direct firsthand experience than that!
Your singular experience is reading Wikipedia articles that prove your
limited depth of understanding.
A perfect example;
-a-a-a In the following decades, with American-dominated globalization,
-a-a-a English gradually increased in importance as a lingua franca, at
-a-a-a the expense of both German and French, which lost popularity as
-a-a-a second languages in the latter half of the 20th century.
Clocky said German and French were the second languages of his era,
the above excerpt from Wikipedia bears that out and there is plenty of
evidence that, once English became dominant, it was initially taught
beyond the age of 10 - and not before.
Again Darren, you are in no position to call bullshit on Clocky's
*lived experience* so I suggest you pull your head in and STFU.
So are his claims that the owner had to keep clearing the codes to use
the vehcile, which is yet another of his wild fabrications. The owner
never had to do any such thing at all, and the vehicle remained in
perfect running condition. The *only* reason he repeatedly cleared the
codes was to extinguish the Check Engine light which he found annoying.
This is yet another example of how despite all the noise this clown
likes to make, how little he actually knows. As mentioned, the vehicle
in question never had a "Permanent" fault to begin with, and any freeze frame data generated was gone once the code was cleared and the minimum number of fault free restart cycles exceeded. The car was never in a position where it couldn't be driven, and even if it had a hard
permanent misfire it would *still* be able to be driven on 7 cylinders.
Little does he know, but that's how the things are designed to operate.
In the case of a cylinder issue that doesn't correct itself, the ECU
shuts down power and spark to the offending cylinder so the car can
continue to be used, albeit somewhat roughly. It does not disable the vehicle, and the suggestion that it does is a complete and utter nonsense.
This is all easily verifiable by anyone who wishes to do their own
research, and if they do they will find that the system works exactly as I've said it does. The fact that these two "licensed buffoons" keep
shifting their positions on this and contradicting themselves with every post shows that their frantic googling is no substitute for actual real world experience, and if these clowns are any indicator of just how well
the automotive word runs when the licensing system "weeds out the
shonks" then I'm quite happy for Victoria to remain unlicensed forever :)
On 7/01/2026 8:38 am, Xeno wrote:
We need to go back to his original story. He reckons he couldn't
find anything wrong with this particular vehicle it and it all
checked out fine - but then also claimed he never even bothered to
even plug in his scan tool - for a suspected injector misfire!
So how the fuck would he know if everything checked out fine if he
never even checked for history codes or any data?
He already knew that the owner had been clearing codes himself which
means that the data likely *would* reveal the problem - at least to
someone who bothered (or to be precise knew how) to actually check
to determine what might be the problem.
But no, he started swapping parts which is the approach of someone
who is clueless when you have a diagnostic tool at your disposal.
It was in a thread where I tried to help Daryl diagnose a fault and
was crucified for it and so bruised was his ego that he felt the
need to bignote himself as a hero mechanic as a distraction yet all
he achieved was to reveal that was absolutely fucking clueless.
What a brilliant own goal it was :-)
On 5/01/2026 10:00 pm, Clocky wrote:
Not in primary school and not in the 70's and not when I was 9.
It wasn't taught until upper primary/secondary school but I was here
by then.
Maybe you were in a "Special" school
On 7/01/2026 10:54 am, alvey wrote:
Noddy wrote:
On 6/01/2026 8:58 pm, Clocky wrote:
On 5/01/2026 8:47 pm, Noddy wrote:
As usual, you've danced your little dance. 97% of clog wearers
speak English and have done for some time according to various
sources, and that's probably more than here. But you never spoke a
word of it until you arrived here?
I'm calling bullshit.
You can call it what you like, the facts don't lie.
*What* facts?
There is no irrefutable history of when English was taught in Dutch
schools, and there is-a irrefutable history of what year levels were
subjected to it when it was. There is no irrefutable proof Dutch was
the only language you spoke when you came to this country, and there
isn't even a comment about when that was.
There are no "facts" in use here. Just some fucking story from you
with the usual amount of support, which is zip.
Oh give it up Buffo.
Despite your desperate squealing, the case against Richo's snipe has
been comprehensively quashed. And despite the hard evidence that has
been supplied, the most compelling proof is that Richo has run away.
Wrong as usual, try harder.
In that case you need to provide greater details of your Clogwogs to
determine why they might have made that comment which doesn't apply to
anyone who was schooled in NL in the 70's and under age 10.
They were couples that we shared dinner with on a cruise out of
Rotterdam, all middle aged or older.
On 6/01/2026 6:45 am, alvey wrote:
keithr0 wrote:Better than being in the noddy cult.
On 5/01/2026 1:37 pm, Clocky wrote:
On 5/01/2026 9:23 am, keithr0 wrote:
On 5/01/2026 6:10 am, alvey wrote:
We know nothig about your "Clogwogs" except that you probably
invented them.
Unlike you, I don't invent lies.
No-one to blame but yourself for your tales being doubted Ritcho. You
know the adage, "If you lay down with Darrens..."
On 8/01/2026 9:39 pm, Clocky wrote:
On 7/01/2026 8:38 am, Xeno wrote:
We need to go back to his original story. He reckons he couldn't find
anything wrong with this particular vehicle it and it all checked out
fine - but then also claimed he never even bothered to even plug in
his scan tool - for a suspected injector misfire!
If you're going to "go back", then you need to go back to the truth. Not
your reinvented version of it.
As I mentioned at the time, when the vehicle was bought to me it was
done so for a regular service. Not specifically for the fault which
wasn't occurring at the time. Whenever someone drops off a car to me I routinely ask if there is anything that needs looking at while I have
it, and that's when he mentioned he'd been having random issues and
mentioned the "cylinder "misfire" fault code (I think it was P0302, but
I can't remember for sure now as it was some time ago).
keithr0 wrote:
On 7/01/2026 10:54 am, alvey wrote:
Noddy wrote:
On 6/01/2026 8:58 pm, Clocky wrote:
On 5/01/2026 8:47 pm, Noddy wrote:
As usual, you've danced your little dance. 97% of clog wearers
speak English and have done for some time according to various
sources, and that's probably more than here. But you never spoke a >>>>>> word of it until you arrived here?
I'm calling bullshit.
You can call it what you like, the facts don't lie.
*What* facts?
There is no irrefutable history of when English was taught in Dutch
schools, and there is-a irrefutable history of what year levels were
subjected to it when it was. There is no irrefutable proof Dutch was
the only language you spoke when you came to this country, and there
isn't even a comment about when that was.
There are no "facts" in use here. Just some fucking story from you
with the usual amount of support, which is zip.
Oh give it up Buffo.
Despite your desperate squealing, the case against Richo's snipe has
been comprehensively quashed. And despite the hard evidence that has
been supplied, the most compelling proof is that Richo has run away.
Wrong as usual, try harder.
Why do something unnecessary?
keithr0 wrote:
In that case you need to provide greater details of your Clogwogs to
determine why they might have made that comment which doesn't apply
to anyone who was schooled in NL in the 70's and under age 10.
They were couples that we shared dinner with on a cruise out of
Rotterdam, all middle aged or older.
lol!
And you can't understand why I think you're a lightweight.
keithr0 wrote:
On 6/01/2026 6:45 am, alvey wrote:
keithr0 wrote:Better than being in the noddy cult.
On 5/01/2026 1:37 pm, Clocky wrote:
On 5/01/2026 9:23 am, keithr0 wrote:
On 5/01/2026 6:10 am, alvey wrote:
We know nothig about your "Clogwogs" except that you probably
invented them.
Unlike you, I don't invent lies.
No-one to blame but yourself for your tales being doubted Ritcho. You
know the adage, "If you lay down with Darrens..."
Errrr. It's *you* who is in "the noddy cult" Ritcho.
Noddy wrote:
On 8/01/2026 9:39 pm, Clocky wrote:
On 7/01/2026 8:38 am, Xeno wrote:
We need to go back to his original story. He reckons he couldn't find
anything wrong with this particular vehicle it and it all checked out
fine - but then also claimed he never even bothered to even plug in
his scan tool - for a suspected injector misfire!
If you're going to "go back", then you need to go back to the truth. Not
your reinvented version of it.
As I mentioned at the time, when the vehicle was bought to me it was
done so for a regular service. Not specifically for the fault which
wasn't occurring at the time. Whenever someone drops off a car to me I
routinely ask if there is anything that needs looking at while I have
it, and that's when he mentioned he'd been having random issues and
mentioned the "cylinder "misfire" fault code (I think it was P0302, but
I can't remember for sure now as it was some time ago).
Been down this road before Buffo. It seems *highly* unlikely to me that
the only vehicles which you've "serviced" in your tin shed are those of
your immediate family. Feel free to prove otherwise.
On 9/01/2026 7:49 am, alvey wrote:
keithr0 wrote:ROTFL, it isn't me that automatically responds to everything that he
On 6/01/2026 6:45 am, alvey wrote:
keithr0 wrote:Better than being in the noddy cult.
On 5/01/2026 1:37 pm, Clocky wrote:
On 5/01/2026 9:23 am, keithr0 wrote:
On 5/01/2026 6:10 am, alvey wrote:
We know nothig about your "Clogwogs" except that you probably
invented them.
Unlike you, I don't invent lies.
No-one to blame but yourself for your tales being doubted Ritcho.
You know the adage, "If you lay down with Darrens..."
Errrr. It's *you* who is in "the noddy cult" Ritcho.
posts with the same old tired crap.
On 8/01/2026 10:28 pm, keithr0 wrote:
On 6/01/2026 9:58 pm, Xeno wrote:
For a car to enter a mode that required the owner to clear it, it
would require it to set a *permanent code* and a standard OBD2
reader cannot clear a permanent DTC. These codes are specifically
designed to remain in the system until the underlying emissions-
related fault is genuinely fixed and the vehicle's computer
confirms the repair over several drive cycles, with the only way
to clear them being to resolve the issue and allow the car to
complete all the necessary monitors.
So "Permanent" codes aren't permanent, just longer lived. They will
clear id the condition is fixed, or, if it was only a transient
condition, and didn't re-occur for some number of cycles.
In a nutshell, yes.
All three types of code have the same life cycle in that they have to go through the same number of restart cycles before they're deleted. The
only difference between "permanent" and "Stored" & "Pending" codes is
that the latter two refer to a transient condition while the former
refers to a "permanent" one.
That's why they're called "Permanent" codes. not because they have an indefinite life in the machine, but because they relate to a hard fault
that cannot correct itself and needs to be repaired.
CAT related PDTCs require the maximum number of cycles. After all,
the reason the ECU sets permanent codes is to protect the CAT.
Therefore Darren's story is flawed from the get go. Remember,
Darren initially stated the owner had to clear the codes to keep
using the vehicle. Bzzztt, I call bullshit. If it got to the stage
where the vehicle couldn't be driven and needed a code clearing,
then I know a simple code reader isn't going to cut it. Did I
mention, the *historical* freeze frames, up to 7 typically, would
remain on many vehicles and these can be read by factory scantools
and upper end non dealer scanners.
A manufacturer may include more, but OBD2 only requires 1
Only one copy of freeze frame data exists at any time, and the mental
case's claims of "up to 7 typically" is a complete fabrication.
Freeze frame data is generated at the time the fault that trips the
permanent code occurs, and the reason why only one freeze frame file
exists is because it is *not* date and time stamped. Generating more
than one freeze frame file would be useless, as if more than one existed
you would have no idea which one was relevant to the fault you were
looking to repair :)
The mental case likes AI, so here's some he can amuse himself with:
No, freeze frame data is not permanently stored; it's a temporary
snapshot tied to a specific fault code and can be erased when the
code is cleared, the battery is disconnected, or a higher-priority
fault occurs, overriding older data. It's stored in the vehicle's
memory until a reset action, but it's not indefinite, disappearing
with clearing actions or new, significant issues, though "Permanent
DTCs" (PDTCs) require fixing the underlying problem and driving
cycles to clear.
As mentioned, Freeze frame data is *not* permanent. Nor is more than one copy of such data ever stored at one time, and the mental case's claims
to the contrary are pure make believe.
So are his claims that the owner had to keep clearing the codes to use
the vehcile, which is yet another of his wild fabrications. The owner
never had to do any such thing at all, and the vehicle remained in
perfect running condition. The *only* reason he repeatedly cleared the
codes was to extinguish the Check Engine light which he found annoying.
This is yet another example of how despite all the noise this clown
likes to make, how little he actually knows. As mentioned, the vehicle
in question never had a "Permanent" fault to begin with, and any freeze frame data generated was gone once the code was cleared and the minimum number of fault free restart cycles exceeded. The car was never in a position where it couldn't be driven, and even if it had a hard
permanent misfire it would *still* be able to be driven on 7 cylinders.
Little does he know, but that's how the things are designed to operate.
In the case of a cylinder issue that doesn't correct itself, the ECU
shuts down power and spark to the offending cylinder so the car can
continue to be used, albeit somewhat roughly. It does not disable the vehicle, and the suggestion that it does is a complete and utter nonsense.
This is all easily verifiable by anyone who wishes to do their own
research, and if they do they will find that the system works exactly as I've said it does. The fact that these two "licensed buffoons" keep
shifting their positions on this and contradicting themselves with every post shows that their frantic googling is no substitute for actual real world experience, and if these clowns are any indicator of just how well
the automotive word runs when the licensing system "weeds out the
shonks" then I'm quite happy for Victoria to remain unlicensed forever :)
On 9/01/2026 7:55 am, alvey wrote:
Noddy wrote:
On 8/01/2026 9:39 pm, Clocky wrote:
On 7/01/2026 8:38 am, Xeno wrote:
We need to go back to his original story. He reckons he couldn't
find anything wrong with this particular vehicle it and it all
checked out fine - but then also claimed he never even bothered to
even plug in his scan tool - for a suspected injector misfire!
If you're going to "go back", then you need to go back to the truth. Not >>> your reinvented version of it.
As I mentioned at the time, when the vehicle was bought to me it was
done so for a regular service. Not specifically for the fault which
wasn't occurring at the time. Whenever someone drops off a car to me I
routinely ask if there is anything that needs looking at while I have
it, and that's when he mentioned he'd been having random issues and
mentioned the "cylinder "misfire" fault code (I think it was P0302, but
I can't remember for sure now as it was some time ago).
Been down this road before Buffo. It seems *highly* unlikely to me
that the only vehicles which you've "serviced" in your tin shed are
those of your immediate family. Feel free to prove otherwise.
You're out of your depth with technical stuff, you do better to keep
your mouth shut and not embarrass yourself.
keithr0 wrote:
On 6/01/2026 6:45 am, alvey wrote:
keithr0 wrote:Better than being in the noddy cult.
On 5/01/2026 1:37 pm, Clocky wrote:
On 5/01/2026 9:23 am, keithr0 wrote:
On 5/01/2026 6:10 am, alvey wrote:
We know nothig about your "Clogwogs" except that you probably
invented them.
Unlike you, I don't invent lies.
No-one to blame but yourself for your tales being doubted Ritcho. You
know the adage, "If you lay down with Darrens..."
Errrr. It's *you* who is in "the noddy cult" Ritcho.
On 08-Jan-26 11:04 PM, Noddy wrote:
This is all easily verifiable by anyone who wishes to do their own
research, and if they do they will find that the system works exactly
as I've said it does. The fact that these two "licensed buffoons" keep
shifting their positions on this and contradicting themselves with
every post shows that their frantic googling is no substitute for
actual real world experience, and if these clowns are any indicator of
just how well the automotive word runs when the licensing system
"weeds out the shonks" then I'm quite happy for Victoria to remain
unlicensed forever :)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-aThe old adage:
-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a "If you can`t dazzle them with Brilliance, baffle them
with *bullshit*".. Comes to mind!.
word soup, buckets full of it!!!! ;) >
On 9/01/2026 7:55 am, alvey wrote:
As I mentioned at the time, when the vehicle was bought to me it was
done so for a regular service. Not specifically for the fault which
wasn't occurring at the time. Whenever someone drops off a car to me I
routinely ask if there is anything that needs looking at while I have
it, and that's when he mentioned he'd been having random issues and
mentioned the "cylinder "misfire" fault code (I think it was P0302, but
I can't remember for sure now as it was some time ago).
Been down this road before Buffo. It seems *highly* unlikely to me
that the only vehicles which you've "serviced" in your tin shed are
those of your immediate family. Feel free to prove otherwise.
You're out of your depth with technical stuff, you do better to keep
your mouth shut and not embarrass yourself.
On 7/01/2026 8:38 am, Xeno wrote:
On 6/1/2026 11:47 pm, Noddy wrote:
On 6/01/2026 10:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
On 5/01/2026 5:28 pm, Xeno wrote:
You cannot delete a permanent code, it stays, you can't delete it,
you don't go anywhere.
So, does it stay in the ECU until the day that the car goes to the
scrappy, or does it clear after a number of cycles without
re-occurrence?
Jesus.... This moron plays musical chairs with his position on this
crap so often it defies belief. He clearly has the recall of a dead
goldfish :)
This has been done to death. There are three types of OBD2 error
codes: Pending, stored and Permanent, and they all relate to the
number of times a fault occurs relative to the engine's rpm. Each
component that is monitored for faults by the ECU has a cycle count
limit, and how the fault occurs relative to that cycle count
determines the type of fault classification it carries.
A Pending code is triggered when the ECU detects a momentary fault
which *doesn't* occur enough times to fall outside the maximum number
of cycles before correcting itself. In such cases, the ECU recognises
that the fault has occurred, but because it was only brief it remains
unconfirmed and the check engine light is *not* illuminated. If the
fault does not occur again then the code is deleted after a pre set
time without anyone knowing anything about it.
A Stored code is triggered when the ECU detects a fault that *does*
fall outside the maximum number of cycles before correcting itself.
In such cases, the ECU detects the fault and recognises that it
repeated itself enough for it to be confirmed, in which case it
*does* illuminate the check engine light to alert the driver that a
fault has occurred. In such a case, a Check Engine Light that is the
result of a stored code trigger can be deleted using a code scanner,
and it will remain off until such time as either the fault occurs
again in which case the light will reappear, or the fault clears
itself and goes away.
A Permanent code is triggered when there is a hard failure of a
component that never comes back to life and the ECU records
continuous failure cycles. In such cases, the Check Engine Light is
illuminated and *cannot* be deleted until such time as the fault is
repaired. Once it is and the light is cleared it will stay off unless
the fault occurs again.
In some cases, not all, there is also freeze frame data stored that
is saved along with the code, which is a snapshot of the state of the
engine's parameters at the time the fault was detected which can make
diagnosis a hell of a lot easier. However, like the codes themselves,
the freeze frame data is *not* permanently stored.
In all of these examples, the one thing they all have in common is
that there is a minimum number of engine restart cycles that controls
how long the codes remain active, and for most engines/vehicles that
number is 40. After 40 successive restarts with no faults being
recorded, any stored codes are erased, and they are erased
*permanently*. Nothing is kept, and there is no historical
information that can be retrieved weeks or months after the fault has
been rectified and the minimum number of successful restarts reached.
It's all wiped. Every bit of it.
And there is a couple of compelling reasons for that.
Firstly, most vehicle ECU's have *very* little EEPROM storage
capacity, and this space is usually shared by Identity information,
driver learning trims, and fault codes. Depending how many faults a
vehicle had over the course of it's life, if fault codes were stored
permanently then the ECU would run out of storage capacity before too
long :)
Secondly, and probably most logically, if a vehicle had a fault that
was repaired and the code cleared, there is absolutely zero need for
a permanent record of that to be kept in the ECU. It would be totally
redundant information that served no purpose whatsoever.
In the era of emissions testing, and emissions testing *cheaters*, I
can see a whole host of reasons why *history data* should be retained.
Nope, OBD2 has been progressively become much more comprehensive. The
This is the way OBD2 has always worked despite the claims of a couple of >>
OBD2 system has not been static since the day it was first
implemented, that much is certain.
clueless "experts", and any suggestion that fault codes remain with
the vehicle forever and can be recalled at any time is pure fantasy
invented by people who have zero experience.
In the case of the R8 Clubsport with the cylinder misfire issue that
ignited this debate to begin with, I knew from the getgo that as it
had been more than a fortnight since the fault had last occurred and
the owner cleared the code that the car had gone through *way* more
than the minimum number of start cycles for the code to be
permanently deleted which meant plugging in my code scanner would be
a total waste of time.
FFS Darren, you weren't even *aware* of *Permanent DTCs*
And said codes wouldn't be injector or spark related codes, they would
be *emissions related* codes since such misfires would trigger a
multitude of *emissions faults*. Again, you lack an understanding of
how the system operates and the inbuilt dependencies. That's why a
*code reader* in your hands is a waste of time and money. In your
hands a code reader turns into a parts cannon. You didn't use a
scanner because you had no clue how to interpret the data.
In your delusions!
Instead I took the information the owner had given me in relation to
the code type, determined that it was either a fuel or a spark issue,
and swapped parts around which I knew would confirm one or the other
the next time it happened.
Which is exactly what it did.
No one has ever said PDTCs remain in the ECU into perpetuity. What has
Codes are not permanently stored for perpetuity. The fact that the
pair of these morons think they are tells anyone who would care to do
their own research that these two imbeciles have absolutely no idea
what they're talking about.
been stated has been that the codes must be removed by the ECU itself.
In order to do that the fault must be rectified, the 40 - 80 drive
cycles completed and a minimum of 300 kilometres of drivetime covered.
Random faults do not allow the above to occur.
We need to go back to his original story. He reckons he couldn't find anything wrong with this particular vehicle it and it all checked out
fine - but then also claimed he never even bothered to even plug in his
scan tool - for a suspected injector misfire!
So how the fuck would he know if everything checked out fine if he never even checked for history codes or any data?
He already knew that the owner had been clearing codes himself which
means that the data likely *would* reveal the problem - at least to
someone who bothered (or to be precise knew how) to actually check to determine what might be the problem.
But no, he started swapping parts which is the approach of someone who
is clueless when you have a diagnostic tool at your disposal. It was in
a thread where I tried to help Daryl diagnose a fault and was crucified
for it and so bruised was his ego that he felt the need to bignote
himself as a hero mechanic as a distraction yet all he achieved was to reveal that was absolutely fucking clueless.
What a brilliant own goal it was :-)
On 5/01/2026 2:37 pm, Clocky wrote:
On 5/01/2026 12:15 pm, keithr0 wrote:
On 5/01/2026 1:37 pm, Clocky wrote:
On 5/01/2026 9:23 am, keithr0 wrote:
On 5/01/2026 6:10 am, alvey wrote:
Noddy wrote:
On 4/01/2026 10:14 pm, keithr0 wrote:
On 4/01/2026 10:41 am, Clocky wrote:
Bzzzzt. Another comprehension failure on your part. I said I >>>>>>>>> couldn't speak a word of English when I was 9. I didn't say I >>>>>>>>> was 9 when I started school here and it wasn't 1982 anyway.
That seems odd, I've visited the land of your birth several
times, and have rarely met anybody who couldn't speak English. >>>>>>>> I've asked a couple of them why that is, the answer always was >>>>>>>> that they started learning it as soon as they started school. >>>>>>>> So, I would have thought that, unless you were particularly
thick, you'd have at least a basic understanding of English
after at least 3 years of school.
It's getting to the point where you can't believe a word the
bloke says. Just like his mental mate.
Must be something about the Dutch :)
And something about you pair is that you are both lazy and stupid. >>>>>>
So because Retcho allegedly got told something by a couple of
clog- wogs in the street then that's conclusive proof of the Dutch >>>>>> education system. Jaysus wept! You pair are ridiculous.
The "Clogwogs" are rather more likely to know something about the
subject than you or your "AI". Jaysus wept! You are ridiculous.
We know nothig about your "Clogwogs" except that you probably
invented them.
Unlike you, I don't invent lies.
In that case you need to provide greater details of your Clogwogs to
determine why they might have made that comment which doesn't apply to
anyone who was schooled in NL in the 70's and under age 10.
They were couples that we shared dinner with on a cruise out of
Rotterdam, all middle aged or older.
keithr0 wrote:
On 9/01/2026 7:49 am, alvey wrote:
keithr0 wrote:ROTFL, it isn't me that automatically responds to everything that he
On 6/01/2026 6:45 am, alvey wrote:
keithr0 wrote:Better than being in the noddy cult.
On 5/01/2026 1:37 pm, Clocky wrote:
On 5/01/2026 9:23 am, keithr0 wrote:
On 5/01/2026 6:10 am, alvey wrote:
We know nothig about your "Clogwogs" except that you probably
invented them.
Unlike you, I don't invent lies.
No-one to blame but yourself for your tales being doubted Ritcho.
You know the adage, "If you lay down with Darrens..."
Errrr. It's *you* who is in "the noddy cult" Ritcho.
posts with the same old tired crap.
*Still* wrong Richo. If there was such a thing as an organised group of people who pointed out the Fraudster's lies, hypocrisy, cowardice etc
etc, then they'd be an "Anti-Fraudster Cult".
For another thing... a cult usually has a leader, so 'we' can't be that
as "We're an anarcho-syndicalist commune...".
On 9/1/2026 8:49 am, alvey wrote:
keithr0 wrote:That should have been obvious, even to the likes of him. After all, *he* worships Noddy!
On 6/01/2026 6:45 am, alvey wrote:
keithr0 wrote:Better than being in the noddy cult.
On 5/01/2026 1:37 pm, Clocky wrote:
On 5/01/2026 9:23 am, keithr0 wrote:
On 5/01/2026 6:10 am, alvey wrote:
We know nothig about your "Clogwogs" except that you probably
invented them.
Unlike you, I don't invent lies.
No-one to blame but yourself for your tales being doubted Ritcho.
You know the adage, "If you lay down with Darrens..."
Errrr. It's *you* who is in "the noddy cult" Ritcho.
On 9/01/2026 9:32 am, alvey wrote:
*Still* wrong Richo. If there was such a thing as an organised group
of people who pointed out the Fraudster's lies, hypocrisy, cowardice
etc etc, then they'd be an "Anti-Fraudster Cult".
You're a cult for sure, you have a religious adherence to a futile quest.
For another thing... a cult usually has a leader, so 'we' can't be
that as "We're an anarcho-syndicalist commune...".
Xeno is the leader, you're the Sergeant at arms, and clocky, well we
have to cut him some slack, after all he is both Dutch and Western Australian.
On 9/01/2026 10:11 am, keithr0 wrote:
On 9/01/2026 7:55 am, alvey wrote:
As I mentioned at the time, when the vehicle was bought to me it was
done so for a regular service. Not specifically for the fault which
wasn't occurring at the time. Whenever someone drops off a car to me I >>>> routinely ask if there is anything that needs looking at while I have
it, and that's when he mentioned he'd been having random issues and
mentioned the "cylinder "misfire" fault code (I think it was P0302, but >>>> I can't remember for sure now as it was some time ago).
Been down this road before Buffo. It seems *highly* unlikely to me
that the only vehicles which you've "serviced" in your tin shed are
those of your immediate family. Feel free to prove otherwise.
You're out of your depth with technical stuff, you do better to keep
your mouth shut and not embarrass yourself.
Don't you just love how he imagines himself to know more about someone else's life and what they do than they do themselves?
There's a very good reason why I pegged this bloke as an utter spastic
from the get-go,
On 5/01/2026 10:00 pm, Clocky wrote:
On 5/01/2026 3:20 pm, Noddy wrote:
On 5/01/2026 2:58 pm, Clocky wrote:
On 5/01/2026 11:17 am, keithr0 wrote:
You did not post a fact, you posted the output of some unknown
"AI". If you think that I stopped some random "Clogwogs" in the
street, you are even more stupid that I have given you credit for,
these were intelligent people with whom I had a social
relationship, far more reliable than some anonymous clown from the
Sunshine Coast.
Irrelevant. You made the statement that I should have been taught
English in early primary school based on the statement of two
unknown individuals of unknown age and have been shown why that is
false.
So answer a direct question. Did they teach English in schools during
your time there, and what period are we talking about?
Not in primary school and not in the 70's and not when I was 9.
It wasn't taught until upper primary/secondary school but I was here
by then.
Maybe you were in a "Special" school
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