• Re: The car fairy cometh

    From alvey@Factman@gmail.com to aus.cars on Thu Jan 1 12:12:48 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    Noddy wrote:
    On 31/12/2025 3:40 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 31/12/2025 11:20 am, alvey wrote:

    But speaking of salt water... Just come back from a packed beach on a
    glorious day here on the Sunny and have An Observation. The G string
    bottom only works on 175cm slightly underweight models. On anyone
    else it makes the bum look wide and wobbly. Mine looks good of course...

    A perv and proud of it.

    Slimey cunt of a


    lol.
    If you pair could make yourselves a look bit foolish it'd be a big improvement.
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  • From alvey@Factman@gmail.com to aus.cars on Thu Jan 1 12:15:51 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    keithr0 wrote:


    I live about 500 metres from salt water, but neither my 30 odd year old MX-5, or the 10 year old Mazda 3 showed any corrosion problems.


    Oh btw Retcho.... Didn't you once say that you lived on the western side
    of the Bruce?
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  • From Xeno@xenolith@optusnet.com.au to aus.cars on Thu Jan 1 19:32:35 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 31/12/2025 5:07 pm, Daryl wrote:
    On 31/12/2025 3:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 31/12/2025 12:31 pm, Xeno wrote:
    On 31/12/2025 10:20 am, Daryl wrote:
    On 30/12/2025 8:55 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 30/12/2025 7:42 pm, Xeno wrote:
    On 30/12/2025 3:14 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 30/12/2025 9:04 am, Daryl wrote:
    On 29/12/2025 8:49 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 29/12/2025 8:19 pm, Daryl wrote:
    On 29/12/2025 6:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    A week ago last Friday, the car fairy paid a visit, and, like >>>>>>>>>>> all good fairies, left a present - a RAV4.

    It has only done one journey beyond the local area, a 25Km >>>>>>>>>>> trip to our daughter's place for Xmas day, but the economy >>>>>>>>>>> looks OK, usually in the low 5s, sometimes in the upper 4s. >>>>>>>>>>> It's quite a change from the Mazda 3, apart from the driving >>>>>>>>>>> position being significantly higher, things have moved on in >>>>>>>>>>> the 10 years since we bought the M3.

    Not necessarily for the better IMO, too much electronics to go >>>>>>>>>> wrong, most of it is pretty reliable but can be a nightmare >>>>>>>>>> when it isn't.

    **Bullshit. Electronics, in general, have improved car
    reliability dramatically. I cite the example of EFI as one that >>>>>>>>> has VASTLY improved almost every aspect of engine flexibility, >>>>>>>>> performance, economy and reliability.

    Wasn't talking about anything basic such as engine management, >>>>>>>> that's been around for a very long time but a lot of new things >>>>>>>> such as surround cameras can and do fail, they did in my sons >>>>>>>> 2022 200 Series Landcruiser, replaced under warranty but cost >>>>>>>> many $1000s to repair.
    I watch a lot of YouTube videos a lot of which are car repair >>>>>>>> related and I've seen many that turn almost new cars into scrap >>>>>>>> mostly due to electrical issues.


    -a-aMy 8 year old Suby has enormous amounts of electronics. 23 >>>>>>>>> CPUs amongst those components. NOTHING has ever gone wrong with >>>>>>>>> the Suby. Except for my own stupidity. Now, Euro-shit is a
    different matter. They probably don't do things as well as the >>>>>>>>> Japs.

    We had an AC issue with our WRX, dealer looked at it 3 times and >>>>>>>> couldn't fix it, took it to an independent AC "specialist" and >>>>>>>> they also couldn't fix it, in the end I looked up the issue on >>>>>>>> Google, found the problem and fixed it in 10 mins, sometimes the >>>>>>>> biggest problem is that the "experts" don't know how to fix
    things especially very new things.


    It's the first car that I've owned without a manual
    handbrake, I used to use it any time I had to stop for more >>>>>>>>>>> than a few second, and disliked the electric ones. In this >>>>>>>>>>> one though, although it is electric, there is little reason >>>>>>>>>>> to to touch it, it comes on automatically in park, and there >>>>>>>>>>> is a hold function for the times when I'd have used the >>>>>>>>>>> manual one for a short stop.

    Golf has an electric handbrake, I neither like or dislike it, >>>>>>>>>> on;y time they can be a pita is when changing rear pads, need >>>>>>>>>> to plug in a scan tool and tell the car what you are doing to >>>>>>>>>> stop it automatically applying the park brake.


    I haven't found anything yet to really dislike, although I'm >>>>>>>>>>> not sure about the adaptive cruise control, maybe I'll get >>>>>>>>>>> used to it.

    I've never owned a car with it but I've driven a few and think >>>>>>>>>> its a great idea, you have to keep an eye on your speed
    because sometimes you don't notice if the car in front has >>>>>>>>>> slowed down causing your car to slow down.

    **Well, that's true enough, but keeping one's eyes on the road >>>>>>>>> and the instruments is pretty much a basic driving procedure. >>>>>>>>>

    -a-aIt has a
    "Digital" rear view mirror, you can switch it between a >>>>>>>>>>> conventional mirror and a screen connected to a camera on the >>>>>>>>>>> tailgate. The picture from the camera is excellent, and gives >>>>>>>>>>> a wider view than the mirror. The problem is that looking in >>>>>>>>>>> a mirror, objects appear the same distance behind the mirror >>>>>>>>>>> as they are in front so your eyes don't need to re-focus. The >>>>>>>>>>> camera view, however, involves looking a screen centimetres >>>>>>>>>>> away, so it takes a finite time to re- focus when you glance >>>>>>>>>>> at it.

    Seems pointless.

    **Yeah, right up until you stick three front row forwards in >>>>>>>>> the back seat, or you load relatives luggage from their trip to >>>>>>>>> Japan in the back, when you collect them from the airport.
    Trust me: If you want to see what is happening behind you, then >>>>>>>>> the electronic rear vision system (as in my Suby) is bloody >>>>>>>>> brilliant. With the Suby (and, I assume the Toyota), you can >>>>>>>>> change the magnification of the system very simply, if you ever >>>>>>>>> need it. Oh yeah: It's very, VERY good at night. Way better >>>>>>>>> than a simple rear vision mirror. That said, the Suby camera is >>>>>>>>> up high. roughly at the driver's eye level. The reversing
    camera is mounted down low, where it needs to be. I am
    surprised to hear that the Toyota has it's camera mounted below >>>>>>>>> the driver's eye- line.


    I've owned 2 vans and a couple of wagons, all long before rear >>>>>>>> view cameras were invented yet I still managed to avoid backing >>>>>>>> into anything.
    All 3 of our cars have reverse cameras, the VW's is the best
    because the camera is hidden under the rear VW badge so it stays >>>>>>>> clean, Porsche has the screen in the rear view mirror (after
    market) and its not very good, better than nothing but only
    just, the CLK also has an aftermarket rear camera, wasn't
    working when I got the car because it wasn't wired properly
    which I fixed, camera works okay but I still use the mirrors and >>>>>>>> listen for the factory front and rear parking sensors which I >>>>>>>> find to be more useful than the camera.
    Trucks don't have a middle rear view mirror, I've never driven a >>>>>>>> truck fitted with a reversing camera, try reversing a 60foot
    semi, you just need to take care.
    IMHO too much reliance on car tech is dumbing down drivers,
    driving standards are getting worse every day and I think
    excessive tech is partly to blame.

    Depends on the environment to some degree, I hear the Army aren't >>>>>>> exactly enamoured the their Mercedes 4WDs, the old Land Rovers
    could often be fixed in the field, but, if a Merc breaks, it a
    back to the depot job.

    The issue with Mercs, and any vehicle made by Germans, is that
    they demand TLC in their maintenance.

    Similarly, a friend did the trip to the Cape. At a garage at one >>>>>>> of the settlements, he saw a bunch of modern 4WDs out the back. >>>>>>> When he asked about them, he was told that they were waiting to >>>>>>> be taken south for scrapping. They had been submerged in tidal
    rivers and the salt water had buggered the electronics to the
    extent that the cost of repair exceeded the insurance value.

    Any car, 4WDs included, if driven in water up to the level of the >>>>>> glass, is an automatic write off. That's because of the multitude >>>>>> of electrics and electronics inside the doors.-a Any car that has >>>>>> salt water *inside* the interior will also be an automatic write
    off. The problem with salt water immersion is that the decay
    happens over time so every single wiring connector will be eaten
    away over time. Due to the low currents in electronic circuits,
    this corrosion will create high resistances so the car will start >>>>>> having a myriad of strange gremlins cropping up. I have even seen >>>>>> complete tracks etched off circuit boards over time. Salt is bad
    enough when the car is only exposed to road salting on the
    underside - lots of gremlins - but they can be relatively easily
    found because of connector accessibility. Not so with complete car >>>>>> immersion, the salt gets into *everything*.

    Lots of words to say the obvious. The point is that the older cars, >>>>> even if they got problems, could be repaired reasonably easily and
    economically, the cost of fixing the modern ones exceeds their worth. >>>>

    Cost of everything has gone nuts, replaced the front windscreen
    wipers on the Golf last week, cheapest I could find cost $75.00, it
    may have been possible to just replace the inserts but no one
    stocked them.
    The problem with newer car with lots of electrics isn't so much the
    cost of the parts but diagnosing problems can be very difficult even
    for dealers.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZtoHjJSZ4Y
    The dealer spent something like 20k Euros trying to fix this
    electric van but it still wasn't fixed, they told the owner it need
    another huge pile of money spent on it to fix it so he gave up and
    got rid of it.
    It was eventually fixed by replacing a relatively cheap cable,
    trouble is it took a huge amount of effort and a bit of luck to find
    the problem.

    It was not luck. As I have said many times, the DTCs do not always
    tell you everything. Nor do they always tell you what the fault is -
    or where. The problem in the trade is that people *think* the code
    reader tells all - and that is where the issues start. The issues
    continue with people thinking they know everything once they finish
    their apprenticeship. Nothing could be further from reality. Too many
    people in the trade know too little about electricity - much less
    electronics. That needs to change. The above example is a clear cut
    case of the mechanics *believing* the code reader whilst failing to
    understand the issue. One cannot diagnose without an understanding of
    both the systems and the underpinning electrical/electronic theory.
    The primary issue is that the cable wasn't isolated from the system
    whilst being tested. Anyone who has worked on discrete electronic
    circuits knows that it is often necessary to isolate a component in
    order to test it since in- circuit parasitic effects can affect
    readings - as in this case. Isolate the cable, then test it - the
    answer became crystal clear. Mechanics are currently struggling
    understanding electronics, how much more training will they need to
    understand networking and high DC voltages - the testing of such is a
    different ball game to what traditional mechanics are used to. Given
    some electric cars run DC voltages of up to 800 volts, I am surprised
    that there is no universal *licence* to work on hybrids and BEVs.
    Mostly the BEV trade is covered under subsidiary licences for non-
    electricians who need to work on *some* electrical stuff - like HVAC
    workers for instance.

    The 14yo son (by a previous marriage) of my grandson-in-law wants to
    be an auto electrician. I reckon that that will be a trade on the up
    and up.


    Its a good bet, people with excellent car electrical skills will be in
    high demand.


    Maybe mechanics figure they don't need to go back to Tech, they'll
    just learn from *experience*. Just like Darren did when he
    *experienced* what would happen when he removed ~20 thou of piston to
    valve clearance on Les' engine. Hmm, that was a rather expensive
    lesson, wasn't it? Not as expensive as the above parts cannon
    exercise with the BEV but getting up there!

    Just the usual crap that, for some strange reason, you find necessary
    to include no matter the subject.

    He can't help himself, he is wrong on all counts because it never
    happened yet he keeping go over the same shit making a fool of himself
    over and over again.
    The people who couldn't find the fault were dealer trained and following
    the manufactures fault finding procedures, the ones who eventually found
    the fault were independents who worked it out without specific training
    on that model, so much for dealing "training".

    You really don't have a clue, do you? It's all about understanding
    electrical concepts hence the ability to conduct effective testing. I
    have stated many times in the past - a lot of mechanics simply do not understand *electricity* well enough to do basic testing much less the
    testing of electronic or networking circuitry. Dealer training has
    nothing to do with it. These chaps *understood* electrical concepts and
    were able to translate that to an effective testing regime. The concept
    of isolating a faulty component from the rest of its circuitry is not
    new and not isolated to electrical. It is common in electronics to test discrete components *out of circuit* so that the circuitry does not
    provide any form of *loading*. That is all the indies did, they
    disconnected *both* ends of the HV Cable from the associated circuits
    and that *isolated the fault to one of two wires which was then easy to
    test. It is exactly what I would have done. Just need to have relevant
    test equipment and know how to use it. That you need to be told this
    tells me that your training in and understanding of electrical concepts
    is also rather sparse.
    --
    Xeno

    Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
    (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)
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  • From Noddy@me@home.com to aus.cars on Thu Jan 1 21:15:36 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 1/01/2026 10:43 am, Daryl wrote:

    I was surprised to find that a friends 2-3yr old i30 not only had a full sized spare but it was also matching alloy wheel.
    My CLK has a full size steel spare but the Porsche and Golf have space savers, doesn't matter to me because it was so long ago I can't remember that last time I fitted a spare wheel to any of our cars.

    That's it right there. Carrying a spare wheel is fine, but the number of people who (a) are prepared to use it, and (b) know how to if they
    wanted to is rapidly diminishing by the day. I simply cannot tell you
    the number of older cars I've bought or worked on where the spare wheel
    still has the original tyre fitted and has never seen the road.

    My old Fairlane is 56 years old this year, and it still has it's
    original factory supplied ER70 Aquajet radial in the boot complete with
    the tits still on it.


    IMO a RAV4 is huge, I was parked next to one this afternoon at the
    shopping centre, way too big for our needs.

    I parked the RAV4 at a shopping centre this morning, it look quite
    large until a Haval parked next to it, then it didn't.


    Just about all cars are getting bigger and bigger which to me is stupid,
    a Corolla sized hatchback is bigger than my old C240, supposedly small
    cars are now larger than old large cars.

    I've shown this pic before, but the Fairlane was the largest car Ford Australia made back in the day.

    https://ibb.co/V3RvwFx

    Still makes me laugh :)
    --
    --
    --
    Regards,
    Noddy.
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  • From keithr0@me@bugger.off.com.au to aus.cars on Thu Jan 1 20:41:49 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 1/01/2026 6:32 pm, Xeno wrote:
    On 31/12/2025 5:07 pm, Daryl wrote:
    On 31/12/2025 3:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 31/12/2025 12:31 pm, Xeno wrote:
    On 31/12/2025 10:20 am, Daryl wrote:
    On 30/12/2025 8:55 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 30/12/2025 7:42 pm, Xeno wrote:
    On 30/12/2025 3:14 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 30/12/2025 9:04 am, Daryl wrote:
    On 29/12/2025 8:49 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 29/12/2025 8:19 pm, Daryl wrote:
    On 29/12/2025 6:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    A week ago last Friday, the car fairy paid a visit, and, >>>>>>>>>>>> like all good fairies, left a present - a RAV4.

    It has only done one journey beyond the local area, a 25Km >>>>>>>>>>>> trip to our daughter's place for Xmas day, but the economy >>>>>>>>>>>> looks OK, usually in the low 5s, sometimes in the upper 4s. >>>>>>>>>>>> It's quite a change from the Mazda 3, apart from the driving >>>>>>>>>>>> position being significantly higher, things have moved on in >>>>>>>>>>>> the 10 years since we bought the M3.

    Not necessarily for the better IMO, too much electronics to >>>>>>>>>>> go wrong, most of it is pretty reliable but can be a
    nightmare when it isn't.

    **Bullshit. Electronics, in general, have improved car
    reliability dramatically. I cite the example of EFI as one >>>>>>>>>> that has VASTLY improved almost every aspect of engine
    flexibility, performance, economy and reliability.

    Wasn't talking about anything basic such as engine management, >>>>>>>>> that's been around for a very long time but a lot of new things >>>>>>>>> such as surround cameras can and do fail, they did in my sons >>>>>>>>> 2022 200 Series Landcruiser, replaced under warranty but cost >>>>>>>>> many $1000s to repair.
    I watch a lot of YouTube videos a lot of which are car repair >>>>>>>>> related and I've seen many that turn almost new cars into scrap >>>>>>>>> mostly due to electrical issues.


    -a-aMy 8 year old Suby has enormous amounts of electronics. 23 >>>>>>>>>> CPUs amongst those components. NOTHING has ever gone wrong >>>>>>>>>> with the Suby. Except for my own stupidity. Now, Euro-shit is >>>>>>>>>> a different matter. They probably don't do things as well as >>>>>>>>>> the Japs.

    We had an AC issue with our WRX, dealer looked at it 3 times >>>>>>>>> and couldn't fix it, took it to an independent AC "specialist" >>>>>>>>> and they also couldn't fix it, in the end I looked up the issue >>>>>>>>> on Google, found the problem and fixed it in 10 mins, sometimes >>>>>>>>> the biggest problem is that the "experts" don't know how to fix >>>>>>>>> things especially very new things.


    It's the first car that I've owned without a manual
    handbrake, I used to use it any time I had to stop for more >>>>>>>>>>>> than a few second, and disliked the electric ones. In this >>>>>>>>>>>> one though, although it is electric, there is little reason >>>>>>>>>>>> to to touch it, it comes on automatically in park, and there >>>>>>>>>>>> is a hold function for the times when I'd have used the >>>>>>>>>>>> manual one for a short stop.

    Golf has an electric handbrake, I neither like or dislike it, >>>>>>>>>>> on;y time they can be a pita is when changing rear pads, need >>>>>>>>>>> to plug in a scan tool and tell the car what you are doing to >>>>>>>>>>> stop it automatically applying the park brake.


    I haven't found anything yet to really dislike, although I'm >>>>>>>>>>>> not sure about the adaptive cruise control, maybe I'll get >>>>>>>>>>>> used to it.

    I've never owned a car with it but I've driven a few and >>>>>>>>>>> think its a great idea, you have to keep an eye on your speed >>>>>>>>>>> because sometimes you don't notice if the car in front has >>>>>>>>>>> slowed down causing your car to slow down.

    **Well, that's true enough, but keeping one's eyes on the road >>>>>>>>>> and the instruments is pretty much a basic driving procedure. >>>>>>>>>>

    -a-aIt has a
    "Digital" rear view mirror, you can switch it between a >>>>>>>>>>>> conventional mirror and a screen connected to a camera on >>>>>>>>>>>> the tailgate. The picture from the camera is excellent, and >>>>>>>>>>>> gives a wider view than the mirror. The problem is that >>>>>>>>>>>> looking in a mirror, objects appear the same distance behind >>>>>>>>>>>> the mirror as they are in front so your eyes don't need to >>>>>>>>>>>> re-focus. The camera view, however, involves looking a >>>>>>>>>>>> screen centimetres away, so it takes a finite time to re- >>>>>>>>>>>> focus when you glance at it.

    Seems pointless.

    **Yeah, right up until you stick three front row forwards in >>>>>>>>>> the back seat, or you load relatives luggage from their trip >>>>>>>>>> to Japan in the back, when you collect them from the airport. >>>>>>>>>> Trust me: If you want to see what is happening behind you, >>>>>>>>>> then the electronic rear vision system (as in my Suby) is >>>>>>>>>> bloody brilliant. With the Suby (and, I assume the Toyota), >>>>>>>>>> you can change the magnification of the system very simply, if >>>>>>>>>> you ever need it. Oh yeah: It's very, VERY good at night. Way >>>>>>>>>> better than a simple rear vision mirror. That said, the Suby >>>>>>>>>> camera is up high. roughly at the driver's eye level. The >>>>>>>>>> reversing camera is mounted down low, where it needs to be. I >>>>>>>>>> am surprised to hear that the Toyota has it's camera mounted >>>>>>>>>> below the driver's eye- line.


    I've owned 2 vans and a couple of wagons, all long before rear >>>>>>>>> view cameras were invented yet I still managed to avoid backing >>>>>>>>> into anything.
    All 3 of our cars have reverse cameras, the VW's is the best >>>>>>>>> because the camera is hidden under the rear VW badge so it
    stays clean, Porsche has the screen in the rear view mirror >>>>>>>>> (after market) and its not very good, better than nothing but >>>>>>>>> only just, the CLK also has an aftermarket rear camera, wasn't >>>>>>>>> working when I got the car because it wasn't wired properly >>>>>>>>> which I fixed, camera works okay but I still use the mirrors >>>>>>>>> and listen for the factory front and rear parking sensors which >>>>>>>>> I find to be more useful than the camera.
    Trucks don't have a middle rear view mirror, I've never driven >>>>>>>>> a truck fitted with a reversing camera, try reversing a 60foot >>>>>>>>> semi, you just need to take care.
    IMHO too much reliance on car tech is dumbing down drivers, >>>>>>>>> driving standards are getting worse every day and I think
    excessive tech is partly to blame.

    Depends on the environment to some degree, I hear the Army
    aren't exactly enamoured the their Mercedes 4WDs, the old Land >>>>>>>> Rovers could often be fixed in the field, but, if a Merc breaks, >>>>>>>> it a back to the depot job.

    The issue with Mercs, and any vehicle made by Germans, is that
    they demand TLC in their maintenance.

    Similarly, a friend did the trip to the Cape. At a garage at one >>>>>>>> of the settlements, he saw a bunch of modern 4WDs out the back. >>>>>>>> When he asked about them, he was told that they were waiting to >>>>>>>> be taken south for scrapping. They had been submerged in tidal >>>>>>>> rivers and the salt water had buggered the electronics to the >>>>>>>> extent that the cost of repair exceeded the insurance value.

    Any car, 4WDs included, if driven in water up to the level of the >>>>>>> glass, is an automatic write off. That's because of the multitude >>>>>>> of electrics and electronics inside the doors.-a Any car that has >>>>>>> salt water *inside* the interior will also be an automatic write >>>>>>> off. The problem with salt water immersion is that the decay
    happens over time so every single wiring connector will be eaten >>>>>>> away over time. Due to the low currents in electronic circuits, >>>>>>> this corrosion will create high resistances so the car will start >>>>>>> having a myriad of strange gremlins cropping up. I have even seen >>>>>>> complete tracks etched off circuit boards over time. Salt is bad >>>>>>> enough when the car is only exposed to road salting on the
    underside - lots of gremlins - but they can be relatively easily >>>>>>> found because of connector accessibility. Not so with complete
    car immersion, the salt gets into *everything*.

    Lots of words to say the obvious. The point is that the older
    cars, even if they got problems, could be repaired reasonably
    easily and economically, the cost of fixing the modern ones
    exceeds their worth.


    Cost of everything has gone nuts, replaced the front windscreen
    wipers on the Golf last week, cheapest I could find cost $75.00, it >>>>> may have been possible to just replace the inserts but no one
    stocked them.
    The problem with newer car with lots of electrics isn't so much the >>>>> cost of the parts but diagnosing problems can be very difficult
    even for dealers.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZtoHjJSZ4Y
    The dealer spent something like 20k Euros trying to fix this
    electric van but it still wasn't fixed, they told the owner it need >>>>> another huge pile of money spent on it to fix it so he gave up and
    got rid of it.
    It was eventually fixed by replacing a relatively cheap cable,
    trouble is it took a huge amount of effort and a bit of luck to
    find the problem.

    It was not luck. As I have said many times, the DTCs do not always
    tell you everything. Nor do they always tell you what the fault is -
    or where. The problem in the trade is that people *think* the code
    reader tells all - and that is where the issues start. The issues
    continue with people thinking they know everything once they finish
    their apprenticeship. Nothing could be further from reality. Too
    many people in the trade know too little about electricity - much
    less electronics. That needs to change. The above example is a clear
    cut case of the mechanics *believing* the code reader whilst failing
    to understand the issue. One cannot diagnose without an
    understanding of both the systems and the underpinning electrical/
    electronic theory. The primary issue is that the cable wasn't
    isolated from the system whilst being tested. Anyone who has worked
    on discrete electronic circuits knows that it is often necessary to
    isolate a component in order to test it since in- circuit parasitic
    effects can affect readings - as in this case. Isolate the cable,
    then test it - the answer became crystal clear. Mechanics are
    currently struggling understanding electronics, how much more
    training will they need to understand networking and high DC
    voltages - the testing of such is a different ball game to what
    traditional mechanics are used to. Given some electric cars run DC
    voltages of up to 800 volts, I am surprised that there is no
    universal *licence* to work on hybrids and BEVs. Mostly the BEV
    trade is covered under subsidiary licences for non- electricians who
    need to work on *some* electrical stuff - like HVAC workers for
    instance.

    The 14yo son (by a previous marriage) of my grandson-in-law wants to
    be an auto electrician. I reckon that that will be a trade on the up
    and up.


    Its a good bet, people with excellent car electrical skills will be in
    high demand.


    Maybe mechanics figure they don't need to go back to Tech, they'll
    just learn from *experience*. Just like Darren did when he
    *experienced* what would happen when he removed ~20 thou of piston
    to valve clearance on Les' engine. Hmm, that was a rather expensive
    lesson, wasn't it? Not as expensive as the above parts cannon
    exercise with the BEV but getting up there!

    Just the usual crap that, for some strange reason, you find necessary
    to include no matter the subject.

    He can't help himself, he is wrong on all counts because it never
    happened yet he keeping go over the same shit making a fool of himself
    over and over again.
    The people who couldn't find the fault were dealer trained and
    following the manufactures fault finding procedures, the ones who
    eventually found the fault were independents who worked it out without
    specific training on that model, so much for dealing "training".

    You really don't have a clue, do you? It's all about understanding electrical concepts hence the ability to conduct effective testing. I
    have stated many times in the past - a lot of mechanics simply do not understand *electricity* well enough to do basic testing much less the testing of electronic or networking circuitry. Dealer training has
    nothing to do with it. These chaps *understood* electrical concepts and
    were able to translate that to an effective testing regime.

    I.E. talent is more important than qualifications. Thanks for agreeing.

    The concept
    of isolating a faulty component from the rest of its circuitry is not
    new and not isolated to electrical.

    Rare these days in electronics

    It is common in electronics to test
    discrete components *out of circuit* so that the circuitry does not
    provide any form of *loading*.

    You obviously know little about fault finding electronics, it's rare to
    have to do that, 90% of the time, the only reason that you take a
    component out of circuit is because you have already determined that it
    is faulty.

    That is all the indies did, they
    disconnected *both* ends of the HV Cable from the associated circuits
    and that *isolated the fault to one of two wires which was then easy to test.

    Test how?

    It is exactly what I would have done. Just need to have relevant
    test equipment and know how to use it. That you need to be told this
    tells me that your training in and understanding of electrical concepts
    is also rather sparse.

    ROTFL, Your knowledge of diagnosing electronics is about on the same
    level as the 14yo who wants to be an auto sparky.

    The most difficult part of diagnosing electronic faults is recreating
    the problem, if it is there constantly, it's gift. Take it from somebody
    who spent 40 years fixing electronics of all kinds.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From keithr0@me@bugger.off.com.au to aus.cars on Thu Jan 1 20:42:16 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 1/01/2026 12:15 pm, alvey wrote:
    keithr0 wrote:


    I live about 500 metres from salt water, but neither my 30 odd year
    old MX-5, or the 10 year old Mazda 3 showed any corrosion problems.


    Oh btw Retcho.... Didn't you once say that you lived on the western side
    of the Bruce?

    Nope.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Xeno@xenolith@optusnet.com.au to aus.cars on Fri Jan 2 08:45:45 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 1/1/2026 9:15 pm, Noddy wrote:
    On 1/01/2026 10:43 am, Daryl wrote:

    I was surprised to find that a friends 2-3yr old i30 not only had a
    full sized spare but it was also matching alloy wheel.
    My CLK has a full size steel spare but the Porsche and Golf have space
    savers, doesn't matter to me because it was so long ago I can't
    remember that last time I fitted a spare wheel to any of our cars.

    That's it right there. Carrying a spare wheel is fine, but the number of people who (a) are prepared to use it, and (b) know how to if they
    wanted to is rapidly diminishing by the day. I simply cannot tell you
    the number of older cars I've bought or worked on where the spare wheel still has the original tyre fitted and has never seen the road.

    My old Fairlane is 56 years old this year, and it still has it's
    original factory supplied ER70 Aquajet radial in the boot complete with
    the tits still on it.

    That's because the car was broken down and off the road so often.

    IMO a RAV4 is huge, I was parked next to one this afternoon at the
    shopping centre, way too big for our needs.

    I parked the RAV4 at a shopping centre this morning, it look quite
    large until a Haval parked next to it, then it didn't.


    Just about all cars are getting bigger and bigger which to me is
    stupid, a Corolla sized hatchback is bigger than my old C240,
    supposedly small cars are now larger than old large cars.

    I've shown this pic before, but the Fairlane was the largest car Ford Australia made back in the day.

    https://ibb.co/V3RvwFx

    Still makes me laugh :)



    --
    Xeno

    Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
    (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From keithr0@me@bugger.off.com.au to aus.cars on Fri Jan 2 10:31:50 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 1/01/2026 8:15 pm, Noddy wrote:
    On 1/01/2026 10:43 am, Daryl wrote:

    I was surprised to find that a friends 2-3yr old i30 not only had a
    full sized spare but it was also matching alloy wheel.
    My CLK has a full size steel spare but the Porsche and Golf have space
    savers, doesn't matter to me because it was so long ago I can't
    remember that last time I fitted a spare wheel to any of our cars.

    That's it right there. Carrying a spare wheel is fine, but the number of people who (a) are prepared to use it, and (b) know how to if they
    wanted to is rapidly diminishing by the day.

    That's because they are a bunch of panseys. I hit a pothole hidden in a
    puddle in my VW Passat. It was obvious that the tyre was totally fucked
    due to a chunk taken out of the sidewall. So, in the pouring rain, out
    with the spare and tools. A yank cop stopped, (can't imagine a QLD cop
    doing so) put a warning flare on the road and held the torch while I
    changed the tyre. He remarked that it was the first time in years that
    he had seen someone change their own tyre. I thought that it was just
    America, but apparently not.

    I simply cannot tell you
    the number of older cars I've bought or worked on where the spare wheel still has the original tyre fitted and has never seen the road.

    I've had 3 tyres and a wheel taken out by potholes in the last 25 years,
    not frequent, but frequent enough.

    My old Fairlane is 56 years old this year, and it still has it's
    original factory supplied ER70 Aquajet radial in the boot complete with
    the tits still on it.


    IMO a RAV4 is huge, I was parked next to one this afternoon at the
    shopping centre, way too big for our needs.

    I parked the RAV4 at a shopping centre this morning, it look quite
    large until a Haval parked next to it, then it didn't.


    Just about all cars are getting bigger and bigger which to me is
    stupid, a Corolla sized hatchback is bigger than my old C240,
    supposedly small cars are now larger than old large cars.

    I've shown this pic before, but the Fairlane was the largest car Ford Australia made back in the day.

    https://ibb.co/V3RvwFx

    Still makes me laugh :)




    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Daryl@dwalford@westpine.com.au to aus.cars on Fri Jan 2 12:14:50 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 1/1/2026 9:15 pm, Noddy wrote:
    On 1/01/2026 10:43 am, Daryl wrote:

    I was surprised to find that a friends 2-3yr old i30 not only had a
    full sized spare but it was also matching alloy wheel.
    My CLK has a full size steel spare but the Porsche and Golf have space
    savers, doesn't matter to me because it was so long ago I can't
    remember that last time I fitted a spare wheel to any of our cars.

    That's it right there. Carrying a spare wheel is fine, but the number of people who (a) are prepared to use it, and (b) know how to if they
    wanted to is rapidly diminishing by the day. I simply cannot tell you
    the number of older cars I've bought or worked on where the spare wheel still has the original tyre fitted and has never seen the road.

    My old Fairlane is 56 years old this year, and it still has it's
    original factory supplied ER70 Aquajet radial in the boot complete with
    the tits still on it.

    Same with the C240 spare, it looked like it had never been on the road,
    it was the OE spare so 23 yrs old so when I had new tyres fitted I put
    the best of my old tyres on the spare because it was only 7 yrs old.


    IMO a RAV4 is huge, I was parked next to one this afternoon at the
    shopping centre, way too big for our needs.

    I parked the RAV4 at a shopping centre this morning, it look quite
    large until a Haval parked next to it, then it didn't.


    Just about all cars are getting bigger and bigger which to me is
    stupid, a Corolla sized hatchback is bigger than my old C240,
    supposedly small cars are now larger than old large cars.

    I've shown this pic before, but the Fairlane was the largest car Ford Australia made back in the day.

    https://ibb.co/V3RvwFx

    Still makes me laugh :)



    LOL, I wanted to buy that model Fairlane to tow a caravan but my wife
    wouldn't have it because it was too big and when it wasn't being used
    for towing it would have been her daily driver.
    --
    Daryl
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Daryl@dwalford@westpine.com.au to aus.cars on Fri Jan 2 12:18:58 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 1/1/2026 9:41 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 1/01/2026 6:32 pm, Xeno wrote:
    On 31/12/2025 5:07 pm, Daryl wrote:
    On 31/12/2025 3:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 31/12/2025 12:31 pm, Xeno wrote:
    On 31/12/2025 10:20 am, Daryl wrote:
    On 30/12/2025 8:55 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 30/12/2025 7:42 pm, Xeno wrote:
    On 30/12/2025 3:14 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 30/12/2025 9:04 am, Daryl wrote:
    On 29/12/2025 8:49 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 29/12/2025 8:19 pm, Daryl wrote:
    On 29/12/2025 6:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    A week ago last Friday, the car fairy paid a visit, and, >>>>>>>>>>>>> like all good fairies, left a present - a RAV4.

    It has only done one journey beyond the local area, a 25Km >>>>>>>>>>>>> trip to our daughter's place for Xmas day, but the economy >>>>>>>>>>>>> looks OK, usually in the low 5s, sometimes in the upper 4s. >>>>>>>>>>>>> It's quite a change from the Mazda 3, apart from the >>>>>>>>>>>>> driving position being significantly higher, things have >>>>>>>>>>>>> moved on in the 10 years since we bought the M3.

    Not necessarily for the better IMO, too much electronics to >>>>>>>>>>>> go wrong, most of it is pretty reliable but can be a
    nightmare when it isn't.

    **Bullshit. Electronics, in general, have improved car
    reliability dramatically. I cite the example of EFI as one >>>>>>>>>>> that has VASTLY improved almost every aspect of engine
    flexibility, performance, economy and reliability.

    Wasn't talking about anything basic such as engine management, >>>>>>>>>> that's been around for a very long time but a lot of new
    things such as surround cameras can and do fail, they did in >>>>>>>>>> my sons 2022 200 Series Landcruiser, replaced under warranty >>>>>>>>>> but cost many $1000s to repair.
    I watch a lot of YouTube videos a lot of which are car repair >>>>>>>>>> related and I've seen many that turn almost new cars into >>>>>>>>>> scrap mostly due to electrical issues.


    -a-aMy 8 year old Suby has enormous amounts of electronics. 23 >>>>>>>>>>> CPUs amongst those components. NOTHING has ever gone wrong >>>>>>>>>>> with the Suby. Except for my own stupidity. Now, Euro-shit is >>>>>>>>>>> a different matter. They probably don't do things as well as >>>>>>>>>>> the Japs.

    We had an AC issue with our WRX, dealer looked at it 3 times >>>>>>>>>> and couldn't fix it, took it to an independent AC "specialist" >>>>>>>>>> and they also couldn't fix it, in the end I looked up the >>>>>>>>>> issue on Google, found the problem and fixed it in 10 mins, >>>>>>>>>> sometimes the biggest problem is that the "experts" don't know >>>>>>>>>> how to fix things especially very new things.


    It's the first car that I've owned without a manual >>>>>>>>>>>>> handbrake, I used to use it any time I had to stop for more >>>>>>>>>>>>> than a few second, and disliked the electric ones. In this >>>>>>>>>>>>> one though, although it is electric, there is little reason >>>>>>>>>>>>> to to touch it, it comes on automatically in park, and >>>>>>>>>>>>> there is a hold function for the times when I'd have used >>>>>>>>>>>>> the manual one for a short stop.

    Golf has an electric handbrake, I neither like or dislike >>>>>>>>>>>> it, on;y time they can be a pita is when changing rear pads, >>>>>>>>>>>> need to plug in a scan tool and tell the car what you are >>>>>>>>>>>> doing to stop it automatically applying the park brake. >>>>>>>>>>>>

    I haven't found anything yet to really dislike, although >>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not sure about the adaptive cruise control, maybe I'll >>>>>>>>>>>>> get used to it.

    I've never owned a car with it but I've driven a few and >>>>>>>>>>>> think its a great idea, you have to keep an eye on your >>>>>>>>>>>> speed because sometimes you don't notice if the car in front >>>>>>>>>>>> has slowed down causing your car to slow down.

    **Well, that's true enough, but keeping one's eyes on the >>>>>>>>>>> road and the instruments is pretty much a basic driving >>>>>>>>>>> procedure.


    -a-aIt has a
    "Digital" rear view mirror, you can switch it between a >>>>>>>>>>>>> conventional mirror and a screen connected to a camera on >>>>>>>>>>>>> the tailgate. The picture from the camera is excellent, and >>>>>>>>>>>>> gives a wider view than the mirror. The problem is that >>>>>>>>>>>>> looking in a mirror, objects appear the same distance >>>>>>>>>>>>> behind the mirror as they are in front so your eyes don't >>>>>>>>>>>>> need to re-focus. The camera view, however, involves >>>>>>>>>>>>> looking a screen centimetres away, so it takes a finite >>>>>>>>>>>>> time to re- focus when you glance at it.

    Seems pointless.

    **Yeah, right up until you stick three front row forwards in >>>>>>>>>>> the back seat, or you load relatives luggage from their trip >>>>>>>>>>> to Japan in the back, when you collect them from the airport. >>>>>>>>>>> Trust me: If you want to see what is happening behind you, >>>>>>>>>>> then the electronic rear vision system (as in my Suby) is >>>>>>>>>>> bloody brilliant. With the Suby (and, I assume the Toyota), >>>>>>>>>>> you can change the magnification of the system very simply, >>>>>>>>>>> if you ever need it. Oh yeah: It's very, VERY good at night. >>>>>>>>>>> Way better than a simple rear vision mirror. That said, the >>>>>>>>>>> Suby camera is up high. roughly at the driver's eye level. >>>>>>>>>>> The reversing camera is mounted down low, where it needs to >>>>>>>>>>> be. I am surprised to hear that the Toyota has it's camera >>>>>>>>>>> mounted below the driver's eye- line.


    I've owned 2 vans and a couple of wagons, all long before rear >>>>>>>>>> view cameras were invented yet I still managed to avoid
    backing into anything.
    All 3 of our cars have reverse cameras, the VW's is the best >>>>>>>>>> because the camera is hidden under the rear VW badge so it >>>>>>>>>> stays clean, Porsche has the screen in the rear view mirror >>>>>>>>>> (after market) and its not very good, better than nothing but >>>>>>>>>> only just, the CLK also has an aftermarket rear camera, wasn't >>>>>>>>>> working when I got the car because it wasn't wired properly >>>>>>>>>> which I fixed, camera works okay but I still use the mirrors >>>>>>>>>> and listen for the factory front and rear parking sensors >>>>>>>>>> which I find to be more useful than the camera.
    Trucks don't have a middle rear view mirror, I've never driven >>>>>>>>>> a truck fitted with a reversing camera, try reversing a 60foot >>>>>>>>>> semi, you just need to take care.
    IMHO too much reliance on car tech is dumbing down drivers, >>>>>>>>>> driving standards are getting worse every day and I think >>>>>>>>>> excessive tech is partly to blame.

    Depends on the environment to some degree, I hear the Army
    aren't exactly enamoured the their Mercedes 4WDs, the old Land >>>>>>>>> Rovers could often be fixed in the field, but, if a Merc
    breaks, it a back to the depot job.

    The issue with Mercs, and any vehicle made by Germans, is that >>>>>>>> they demand TLC in their maintenance.

    Similarly, a friend did the trip to the Cape. At a garage at >>>>>>>>> one of the settlements, he saw a bunch of modern 4WDs out the >>>>>>>>> back. When he asked about them, he was told that they were
    waiting to be taken south for scrapping. They had been
    submerged in tidal rivers and the salt water had buggered the >>>>>>>>> electronics to the extent that the cost of repair exceeded the >>>>>>>>> insurance value.

    Any car, 4WDs included, if driven in water up to the level of >>>>>>>> the glass, is an automatic write off. That's because of the
    multitude of electrics and electronics inside the doors.-a Any >>>>>>>> car that has salt water *inside* the interior will also be an >>>>>>>> automatic write off. The problem with salt water immersion is >>>>>>>> that the decay happens over time so every single wiring
    connector will be eaten away over time. Due to the low currents >>>>>>>> in electronic circuits, this corrosion will create high
    resistances so the car will start having a myriad of strange
    gremlins cropping up. I have even seen complete tracks etched >>>>>>>> off circuit boards over time. Salt is bad enough when the car is >>>>>>>> only exposed to road salting on the underside - lots of gremlins >>>>>>>> - but they can be relatively easily found because of connector >>>>>>>> accessibility. Not so with complete car immersion, the salt gets >>>>>>>> into *everything*.

    Lots of words to say the obvious. The point is that the older
    cars, even if they got problems, could be repaired reasonably
    easily and economically, the cost of fixing the modern ones
    exceeds their worth.


    Cost of everything has gone nuts, replaced the front windscreen
    wipers on the Golf last week, cheapest I could find cost $75.00,
    it may have been possible to just replace the inserts but no one
    stocked them.
    The problem with newer car with lots of electrics isn't so much
    the cost of the parts but diagnosing problems can be very
    difficult even for dealers.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZtoHjJSZ4Y
    The dealer spent something like 20k Euros trying to fix this
    electric van but it still wasn't fixed, they told the owner it
    need another huge pile of money spent on it to fix it so he gave
    up and got rid of it.
    It was eventually fixed by replacing a relatively cheap cable,
    trouble is it took a huge amount of effort and a bit of luck to
    find the problem.

    It was not luck. As I have said many times, the DTCs do not always
    tell you everything. Nor do they always tell you what the fault is
    - or where. The problem in the trade is that people *think* the
    code reader tells all - and that is where the issues start. The
    issues continue with people thinking they know everything once they >>>>> finish their apprenticeship. Nothing could be further from reality. >>>>> Too many people in the trade know too little about electricity -
    much less electronics. That needs to change. The above example is a >>>>> clear cut case of the mechanics *believing* the code reader whilst
    failing to understand the issue. One cannot diagnose without an
    understanding of both the systems and the underpinning electrical/
    electronic theory. The primary issue is that the cable wasn't
    isolated from the system whilst being tested. Anyone who has worked >>>>> on discrete electronic circuits knows that it is often necessary to >>>>> isolate a component in order to test it since in- circuit parasitic >>>>> effects can affect readings - as in this case. Isolate the cable,
    then test it - the answer became crystal clear. Mechanics are
    currently struggling understanding electronics, how much more
    training will they need to understand networking and high DC
    voltages - the testing of such is a different ball game to what
    traditional mechanics are used to. Given some electric cars run DC
    voltages of up to 800 volts, I am surprised that there is no
    universal *licence* to work on hybrids and BEVs. Mostly the BEV
    trade is covered under subsidiary licences for non- electricians
    who need to work on *some* electrical stuff - like HVAC workers for >>>>> instance.

    The 14yo son (by a previous marriage) of my grandson-in-law wants to
    be an auto electrician. I reckon that that will be a trade on the up
    and up.


    Its a good bet, people with excellent car electrical skills will be
    in high demand.


    Maybe mechanics figure they don't need to go back to Tech, they'll
    just learn from *experience*. Just like Darren did when he
    *experienced* what would happen when he removed ~20 thou of piston
    to valve clearance on Les' engine. Hmm, that was a rather expensive >>>>> lesson, wasn't it? Not as expensive as the above parts cannon
    exercise with the BEV but getting up there!

    Just the usual crap that, for some strange reason, you find
    necessary to include no matter the subject.

    He can't help himself, he is wrong on all counts because it never
    happened yet he keeping go over the same shit making a fool of
    himself over and over again.
    The people who couldn't find the fault were dealer trained and
    following the manufactures fault finding procedures, the ones who
    eventually found the fault were independents who worked it out
    without specific training on that model, so much for dealing "training". >>>
    You really don't have a clue, do you? It's all about understanding
    electrical concepts hence the ability to conduct effective testing. I
    have stated many times in the past - a lot of mechanics simply do not
    understand *electricity* well enough to do basic testing much less the
    testing of electronic or networking circuitry. Dealer training has
    nothing to do with it. These chaps *understood* electrical concepts
    and were able to translate that to an effective testing regime.

    I.E. talent is more important than qualifications. Thanks for agreeing.

    LOL, took a while but seems he finally got it, despite being dealer
    trained and following the manufactures fault finding process they still couldn't fix it, it took someone using common sense and lateral thinking
    to work it out.
    --
    Daryl
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Daryl@dwalford@westpine.com.au to aus.cars on Fri Jan 2 12:29:55 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 2/1/2026 11:31 am, keithr0 wrote:
    On 1/01/2026 8:15 pm, Noddy wrote:
    On 1/01/2026 10:43 am, Daryl wrote:

    I was surprised to find that a friends 2-3yr old i30 not only had a
    full sized spare but it was also matching alloy wheel.
    My CLK has a full size steel spare but the Porsche and Golf have
    space savers, doesn't matter to me because it was so long ago I can't
    remember that last time I fitted a spare wheel to any of our cars.

    That's it right there. Carrying a spare wheel is fine, but the number
    of people who (a) are prepared to use it, and (b) know how to if they
    wanted to is rapidly diminishing by the day.

    That's because they are a bunch of panseys.

    Pretty much, when we were a lot younger its likely that our fathers, grandfathers or uncles (2 of my uncle were mechanics) would teach us how
    to do basic car maintenance but that seems rare now.
    My boys have above average skills in that area simply because I insisted
    they learn the basics.

    I hit a pothole hidden in a
    puddle in my VW Passat. It was obvious that the tyre was totally fucked
    due to a chunk taken out of the sidewall. So, in the pouring rain, out
    with the spare and tools. A yank cop stopped, (can't imagine a QLD cop
    doing so) put a warning flare on the road and held the torch while I
    changed the tyre. He remarked that it was the first time in years that
    he had seen someone change their own tyre. I thought that it was just America, but apparently not.


    Too dangerous to change a tyre on the side of a busy fwy these days, the authorities even advise people not to, just told to wait for help, I
    would get out of the car and climb over the rail just in case some moron plowed into my parked car which seems to happen too often.
    Okay if its not busy or you on a quiet road.
    --
    Daryl
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From alvey@Hans.Andnees@gmail.com to aus.cars on Fri Jan 2 12:11:19 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    keithr0 wrote:
    On 1/01/2026 12:15 pm, alvey wrote:
    keithr0 wrote:


    I live about 500 metres from salt water, but neither my 30 odd year
    old MX-5, or the 10 year old Mazda 3 showed any corrosion problems.


    Oh btw Retcho.... Didn't you once say that you lived on the western
    side of the Bruce?

    Nope.

    Oh. So you *did* respond. My bad, this time.

    Anyhoo... Speaking of that part of the Sunny... Was coming back from
    Briz a couple of days ago and the Bruce was crawling. The Merk satnav
    told me to take the Roys Rd turn off and come in through Aura. Turned
    out to be a breeze, might even use it as the default as it avoids the spaghetti & crawl that is Caloundra Rd. The Merk maps lived down to expectations though, a couple of Km after the Roys Rd turn-off it had no streets at all in Aura. Turns out that you have to update the Merk maps yourself. Quality service from M-B there. (For the "enquiring minds"...
    I normally use my phone as a route planner).
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Xeno@xenolith@optusnet.com.au to aus.cars on Fri Jan 2 03:14:32 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote:
    On 1/1/2026 9:41 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 1/01/2026 6:32 pm, Xeno wrote:
    On 31/12/2025 5:07 pm, Daryl wrote:
    On 31/12/2025 3:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 31/12/2025 12:31 pm, Xeno wrote:
    On 31/12/2025 10:20 am, Daryl wrote:
    On 30/12/2025 8:55 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 30/12/2025 7:42 pm, Xeno wrote:
    On 30/12/2025 3:14 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 30/12/2025 9:04 am, Daryl wrote:
    On 29/12/2025 8:49 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 29/12/2025 8:19 pm, Daryl wrote:
    On 29/12/2025 6:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    A week ago last Friday, the car fairy paid a visit, and, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> like all good fairies, left a present - a RAV4.

    It has only done one journey beyond the local area, a 25Km >>>>>>>>>>>>>> trip to our daughter's place for Xmas day, but the economy >>>>>>>>>>>>>> looks OK, usually in the low 5s, sometimes in the upper 4s. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's quite a change from the Mazda 3, apart from the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> driving position being significantly higher, things have >>>>>>>>>>>>>> moved on in the 10 years since we bought the M3.

    Not necessarily for the better IMO, too much electronics to >>>>>>>>>>>>> go wrong, most of it is pretty reliable but can be a >>>>>>>>>>>>> nightmare when it isn't.

    **Bullshit. Electronics, in general, have improved car >>>>>>>>>>>> reliability dramatically. I cite the example of EFI as one >>>>>>>>>>>> that has VASTLY improved almost every aspect of engine >>>>>>>>>>>> flexibility, performance, economy and reliability.

    Wasn't talking about anything basic such as engine management, >>>>>>>>>>> that's been around for a very long time but a lot of new >>>>>>>>>>> things such as surround cameras can and do fail, they did in >>>>>>>>>>> my sons 2022 200 Series Landcruiser, replaced under warranty >>>>>>>>>>> but cost many $1000s to repair.
    I watch a lot of YouTube videos a lot of which are car repair >>>>>>>>>>> related and I've seen many that turn almost new cars into >>>>>>>>>>> scrap mostly due to electrical issues.


    -a-aMy 8 year old Suby has enormous amounts of electronics. 23 >>>>>>>>>>>> CPUs amongst those components. NOTHING has ever gone wrong >>>>>>>>>>>> with the Suby. Except for my own stupidity. Now, Euro-shit is >>>>>>>>>>>> a different matter. They probably don't do things as well as >>>>>>>>>>>> the Japs.

    We had an AC issue with our WRX, dealer looked at it 3 times >>>>>>>>>>> and couldn't fix it, took it to an independent AC "specialist" >>>>>>>>>>> and they also couldn't fix it, in the end I looked up the >>>>>>>>>>> issue on Google, found the problem and fixed it in 10 mins, >>>>>>>>>>> sometimes the biggest problem is that the "experts" don't know >>>>>>>>>>> how to fix things especially very new things.


    It's the first car that I've owned without a manual >>>>>>>>>>>>>> handbrake, I used to use it any time I had to stop for more >>>>>>>>>>>>>> than a few second, and disliked the electric ones. In this >>>>>>>>>>>>>> one though, although it is electric, there is little reason >>>>>>>>>>>>>> to to touch it, it comes on automatically in park, and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> there is a hold function for the times when I'd have used >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the manual one for a short stop.

    Golf has an electric handbrake, I neither like or dislike >>>>>>>>>>>>> it, on;y time they can be a pita is when changing rear pads, >>>>>>>>>>>>> need to plug in a scan tool and tell the car what you are >>>>>>>>>>>>> doing to stop it automatically applying the park brake. >>>>>>>>>>>>>

    I haven't found anything yet to really dislike, although >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not sure about the adaptive cruise control, maybe I'll >>>>>>>>>>>>>> get used to it.

    I've never owned a car with it but I've driven a few and >>>>>>>>>>>>> think its a great idea, you have to keep an eye on your >>>>>>>>>>>>> speed because sometimes you don't notice if the car in front >>>>>>>>>>>>> has slowed down causing your car to slow down.

    **Well, that's true enough, but keeping one's eyes on the >>>>>>>>>>>> road and the instruments is pretty much a basic driving >>>>>>>>>>>> procedure.


    -a-aIt has a
    "Digital" rear view mirror, you can switch it between a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> conventional mirror and a screen connected to a camera on >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the tailgate. The picture from the camera is excellent, and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> gives a wider view than the mirror. The problem is that >>>>>>>>>>>>>> looking in a mirror, objects appear the same distance >>>>>>>>>>>>>> behind the mirror as they are in front so your eyes don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>> need to re-focus. The camera view, however, involves >>>>>>>>>>>>>> looking a screen centimetres away, so it takes a finite >>>>>>>>>>>>>> time to re- focus when you glance at it.

    Seems pointless.

    **Yeah, right up until you stick three front row forwards in >>>>>>>>>>>> the back seat, or you load relatives luggage from their trip >>>>>>>>>>>> to Japan in the back, when you collect them from the airport. >>>>>>>>>>>> Trust me: If you want to see what is happening behind you, >>>>>>>>>>>> then the electronic rear vision system (as in my Suby) is >>>>>>>>>>>> bloody brilliant. With the Suby (and, I assume the Toyota), >>>>>>>>>>>> you can change the magnification of the system very simply, >>>>>>>>>>>> if you ever need it. Oh yeah: It's very, VERY good at night. >>>>>>>>>>>> Way better than a simple rear vision mirror. That said, the >>>>>>>>>>>> Suby camera is up high. roughly at the driver's eye level. >>>>>>>>>>>> The reversing camera is mounted down low, where it needs to >>>>>>>>>>>> be. I am surprised to hear that the Toyota has it's camera >>>>>>>>>>>> mounted below the driver's eye- line.


    I've owned 2 vans and a couple of wagons, all long before rear >>>>>>>>>>> view cameras were invented yet I still managed to avoid >>>>>>>>>>> backing into anything.
    All 3 of our cars have reverse cameras, the VW's is the best >>>>>>>>>>> because the camera is hidden under the rear VW badge so it >>>>>>>>>>> stays clean, Porsche has the screen in the rear view mirror >>>>>>>>>>> (after market) and its not very good, better than nothing but >>>>>>>>>>> only just, the CLK also has an aftermarket rear camera, wasn't >>>>>>>>>>> working when I got the car because it wasn't wired properly >>>>>>>>>>> which I fixed, camera works okay but I still use the mirrors >>>>>>>>>>> and listen for the factory front and rear parking sensors >>>>>>>>>>> which I find to be more useful than the camera.
    Trucks don't have a middle rear view mirror, I've never driven >>>>>>>>>>> a truck fitted with a reversing camera, try reversing a 60foot >>>>>>>>>>> semi, you just need to take care.
    IMHO too much reliance on car tech is dumbing down drivers, >>>>>>>>>>> driving standards are getting worse every day and I think >>>>>>>>>>> excessive tech is partly to blame.

    Depends on the environment to some degree, I hear the Army >>>>>>>>>> aren't exactly enamoured the their Mercedes 4WDs, the old Land >>>>>>>>>> Rovers could often be fixed in the field, but, if a Merc
    breaks, it a back to the depot job.

    The issue with Mercs, and any vehicle made by Germans, is that >>>>>>>>> they demand TLC in their maintenance.

    Similarly, a friend did the trip to the Cape. At a garage at >>>>>>>>>> one of the settlements, he saw a bunch of modern 4WDs out the >>>>>>>>>> back. When he asked about them, he was told that they were >>>>>>>>>> waiting to be taken south for scrapping. They had been
    submerged in tidal rivers and the salt water had buggered the >>>>>>>>>> electronics to the extent that the cost of repair exceeded the >>>>>>>>>> insurance value.

    Any car, 4WDs included, if driven in water up to the level of >>>>>>>>> the glass, is an automatic write off. That's because of the >>>>>>>>> multitude of electrics and electronics inside the doors.-a Any >>>>>>>>> car that has salt water *inside* the interior will also be an >>>>>>>>> automatic write off. The problem with salt water immersion is >>>>>>>>> that the decay happens over time so every single wiring
    connector will be eaten away over time. Due to the low currents >>>>>>>>> in electronic circuits, this corrosion will create high
    resistances so the car will start having a myriad of strange >>>>>>>>> gremlins cropping up. I have even seen complete tracks etched >>>>>>>>> off circuit boards over time. Salt is bad enough when the car is >>>>>>>>> only exposed to road salting on the underside - lots of gremlins >>>>>>>>> - but they can be relatively easily found because of connector >>>>>>>>> accessibility. Not so with complete car immersion, the salt gets >>>>>>>>> into *everything*.

    Lots of words to say the obvious. The point is that the older >>>>>>>> cars, even if they got problems, could be repaired reasonably >>>>>>>> easily and economically, the cost of fixing the modern ones
    exceeds their worth.


    Cost of everything has gone nuts, replaced the front windscreen >>>>>>> wipers on the Golf last week, cheapest I could find cost $75.00, >>>>>>> it may have been possible to just replace the inserts but no one >>>>>>> stocked them.
    The problem with newer car with lots of electrics isn't so much >>>>>>> the cost of the parts but diagnosing problems can be very
    difficult even for dealers.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZtoHjJSZ4Y
    The dealer spent something like 20k Euros trying to fix this
    electric van but it still wasn't fixed, they told the owner it
    need another huge pile of money spent on it to fix it so he gave >>>>>>> up and got rid of it.
    It was eventually fixed by replacing a relatively cheap cable,
    trouble is it took a huge amount of effort and a bit of luck to >>>>>>> find the problem.

    It was not luck. As I have said many times, the DTCs do not always >>>>>> tell you everything. Nor do they always tell you what the fault is >>>>>> - or where. The problem in the trade is that people *think* the
    code reader tells all - and that is where the issues start. The
    issues continue with people thinking they know everything once they >>>>>> finish their apprenticeship. Nothing could be further from reality. >>>>>> Too many people in the trade know too little about electricity -
    much less electronics. That needs to change. The above example is a >>>>>> clear cut case of the mechanics *believing* the code reader whilst >>>>>> failing to understand the issue. One cannot diagnose without an
    understanding of both the systems and the underpinning electrical/ >>>>>> electronic theory. The primary issue is that the cable wasn't
    isolated from the system whilst being tested. Anyone who has worked >>>>>> on discrete electronic circuits knows that it is often necessary to >>>>>> isolate a component in order to test it since in- circuit parasitic >>>>>> effects can affect readings - as in this case. Isolate the cable, >>>>>> then test it - the answer became crystal clear. Mechanics are
    currently struggling understanding electronics, how much more
    training will they need to understand networking and high DC
    voltages - the testing of such is a different ball game to what
    traditional mechanics are used to. Given some electric cars run DC >>>>>> voltages of up to 800 volts, I am surprised that there is no
    universal *licence* to work on hybrids and BEVs. Mostly the BEV
    trade is covered under subsidiary licences for non- electricians
    who need to work on *some* electrical stuff - like HVAC workers for >>>>>> instance.

    The 14yo son (by a previous marriage) of my grandson-in-law wants to >>>>> be an auto electrician. I reckon that that will be a trade on the up >>>>> and up.


    Its a good bet, people with excellent car electrical skills will be
    in high demand.


    Maybe mechanics figure they don't need to go back to Tech, they'll >>>>>> just learn from *experience*. Just like Darren did when he
    *experienced* what would happen when he removed ~20 thou of piston >>>>>> to valve clearance on Les' engine. Hmm, that was a rather expensive >>>>>> lesson, wasn't it? Not as expensive as the above parts cannon
    exercise with the BEV but getting up there!

    Just the usual crap that, for some strange reason, you find
    necessary to include no matter the subject.

    He can't help himself, he is wrong on all counts because it never
    happened yet he keeping go over the same shit making a fool of
    himself over and over again.
    The people who couldn't find the fault were dealer trained and
    following the manufactures fault finding procedures, the ones who
    eventually found the fault were independents who worked it out
    without specific training on that model, so much for dealing "training". >>>>
    You really don't have a clue, do you? It's all about understanding
    electrical concepts hence the ability to conduct effective testing. I
    have stated many times in the past - a lot of mechanics simply do not
    understand *electricity* well enough to do basic testing much less the
    testing of electronic or networking circuitry. Dealer training has
    nothing to do with it. These chaps *understood* electrical concepts
    and were able to translate that to an effective testing regime.

    I.E. talent is more important than qualifications. Thanks for agreeing.

    LOL, took a while but seems he finally got it, despite being dealer
    trained and following the manufactures fault finding process they still couldn't fix it, it took someone using common sense and lateral thinking
    to work it out.

    The fixer obviously had training in electrical theory, testing and
    diagnosis. FWIW, he would also be High Voltage trained, qualified and
    licenced, donrCOt get to work on such vehicles without it.
    I donrCOt know where you get the idea that lateral thinking was involved. The fixer just used standard diagnostic procedures to isolate the fault and standard test procedures to confirm the fault.

    ____
    Xeno



    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Xeno@xenolith@optusnet.com.au to aus.cars on Fri Jan 2 16:53:48 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 1/1/2026 9:41 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 1/01/2026 6:32 pm, Xeno wrote:
    On 31/12/2025 5:07 pm, Daryl wrote:
    On 31/12/2025 3:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 31/12/2025 12:31 pm, Xeno wrote:
    On 31/12/2025 10:20 am, Daryl wrote:

    <snippety doo dah>


    Maybe mechanics figure they don't need to go back to Tech, they'll
    just learn from *experience*. Just like Darren did when he
    *experienced* what would happen when he removed ~20 thou of piston
    to valve clearance on Les' engine. Hmm, that was a rather expensive >>>>> lesson, wasn't it? Not as expensive as the above parts cannon
    exercise with the BEV but getting up there!

    Just the usual crap that, for some strange reason, you find
    necessary to include no matter the subject.

    He can't help himself, he is wrong on all counts because it never
    happened yet he keeping go over the same shit making a fool of
    himself over and over again.
    The people who couldn't find the fault were dealer trained and
    following the manufactures fault finding procedures, the ones who
    eventually found the fault were independents who worked it out
    without specific training on that model, so much for dealing "training". >>>
    You really don't have a clue, do you? It's all about understanding
    electrical concepts hence the ability to conduct effective testing. I
    have stated many times in the past - a lot of mechanics simply do not
    understand *electricity* well enough to do basic testing much less the
    testing of electronic or networking circuitry. Dealer training has
    nothing to do with it. These chaps *understood* electrical concepts
    and were able to translate that to an effective testing regime.

    I.E. talent is more important than qualifications. Thanks for agreeing.

    Hardly! Training is what is needed. From training and associated work experience comes certification.


    AI Overview
    Working on Battery Electric Vehicles (BEVs) in the U.S. requires
    specialized training, certifications (like ASE EV certifications and
    EVITP for electricians), and adherence to strict safety standards (like
    NFPA 70E) due to high voltages (200-600V), demanding skills in
    electrical systems, advanced software, robotics, and safe chemical
    handling, often involving hands-on apprenticeships and focusing on
    complex problem-solving.
    Key Requirements & Skills:
    Electrical Expertise: High-voltage systems (200-600V), power inverters,
    DC-DC converters, and battery management systems (BMS).
    Safety Certifications: Mandatory training for "Qualified Electrical
    Workers" under NFPA 70E, including Lockout/Tagout procedures and arc
    flash prevention.
    Technical Skills: Proficiency with computer systems, AI, robotics, data literacy, and complex diagnostic software.
    Specialized Certifications: ASE's xEV certifications (Electrical Safety Awareness, Technician Electrical Safety) are becoming industry standards. Electrician Training: EVITP certification for installing and maintaining charging infrastructure.
    Soft Skills: Complex problem-solving, precision, and strong attention to detail are crucial.
    Training & Education Pathways:
    Apprenticeships: "Earn-and-learn" opportunities through employer-based programs.
    Formal Training: Programs integrating hands-on robotics, AI, and data literacy.
    On-the-Job Training: Essential for practical skills development.

    Want to work on BEVs in the US? You need training and *must have* certification else you don't get to first base. In order to work on
    anything above ~60 Volts DC, you are required to have appropriate
    electrical certification and you don't get that just because you're *talented*. Darren may have you convinced trade qualifications and certifications come in Weeties packets but that's not how the real world
    works hence there is no record anywhere of Darren's claimed achievements.


    The concept of isolating a faulty component from the rest of its
    circuitry is not new and not isolated to electrical.

    Rare these days in electronics

    I did mention *discrete circuitry*. If the board or circuit doesn't have
    a lot of discrete components, as is common in electronics these days,
    then the method is fraught.

    It is common in electronics to test discrete components *out of
    circuit* so that the circuitry does not provide any form of *loading*.

    You obviously know little about fault finding electronics, it's rare to
    have to do that, 90% of the time, the only reason that you take a
    component out of circuit is because you have already determined that it
    is faulty.

    That is all the indies did, they disconnected *both* ends of the HV
    Cable from the associated circuits and that *isolated the fault to one
    of two wires which was then easy to test.

    Test how?

    IIRC, the tech used an *insulation tester*. Specialised areas,
    specialised tools, specialised training. Not surprised you didn't notice
    that point in the video - a whoosh moment for you.

    It is exactly what I would have done. Just need to have relevant test
    equipment and know how to use it. That you need to be told this tells
    me that your training in and understanding of electrical concepts is
    also rather sparse.

    ROTFL, Your knowledge of diagnosing electronics is about on the same
    level as the 14yo who wants to be an auto sparky.

    The most difficult part of diagnosing electronic faults is recreating
    the problem, if it is there constantly, it's gift. Take it from somebody
    who spent 40 years fixing electronics of all kinds.

    The hero speaketh!
    --
    Xeno

    Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
    (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Clocky@notgonna@happen.com to aus.cars on Fri Jan 2 13:59:54 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 31/12/2025 10:31 am, Xeno wrote:
    On 31/12/2025 10:20 am, Daryl wrote:
    On 30/12/2025 8:55 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 30/12/2025 7:42 pm, Xeno wrote:
    On 30/12/2025 3:14 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 30/12/2025 9:04 am, Daryl wrote:
    On 29/12/2025 8:49 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 29/12/2025 8:19 pm, Daryl wrote:
    On 29/12/2025 6:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    A week ago last Friday, the car fairy paid a visit, and, like >>>>>>>>> all good fairies, left a present - a RAV4.

    It has only done one journey beyond the local area, a 25Km trip >>>>>>>>> to our daughter's place for Xmas day, but the economy looks OK, >>>>>>>>> usually in the low 5s, sometimes in the upper 4s. It's quite a >>>>>>>>> change from the Mazda 3, apart from the driving position being >>>>>>>>> significantly higher, things have moved on in the 10 years
    since we bought the M3.

    Not necessarily for the better IMO, too much electronics to go >>>>>>>> wrong, most of it is pretty reliable but can be a nightmare when >>>>>>>> it isn't.

    **Bullshit. Electronics, in general, have improved car
    reliability dramatically. I cite the example of EFI as one that >>>>>>> has VASTLY improved almost every aspect of engine flexibility,
    performance, economy and reliability.

    Wasn't talking about anything basic such as engine management,
    that's been around for a very long time but a lot of new things
    such as surround cameras can and do fail, they did in my sons 2022 >>>>>> 200 Series Landcruiser, replaced under warranty but cost many
    $1000s to repair.
    I watch a lot of YouTube videos a lot of which are car repair
    related and I've seen many that turn almost new cars into scrap
    mostly due to electrical issues.


    -a-aMy 8 year old Suby has enormous amounts of electronics. 23
    CPUs amongst those components. NOTHING has ever gone wrong with >>>>>>> the Suby. Except for my own stupidity. Now, Euro-shit is a
    different matter. They probably don't do things as well as the Japs. >>>>>>
    We had an AC issue with our WRX, dealer looked at it 3 times and
    couldn't fix it, took it to an independent AC "specialist" and
    they also couldn't fix it, in the end I looked up the issue on
    Google, found the problem and fixed it in 10 mins, sometimes the
    biggest problem is that the "experts" don't know how to fix things >>>>>> especially very new things.


    It's the first car that I've owned without a manual handbrake, >>>>>>>>> I used to use it any time I had to stop for more than a few >>>>>>>>> second, and disliked the electric ones. In this one though, >>>>>>>>> although it is electric, there is little reason to to touch it, >>>>>>>>> it comes on automatically in park, and there is a hold function >>>>>>>>> for the times when I'd have used the manual one for a short stop. >>>>>>>>
    Golf has an electric handbrake, I neither like or dislike it, >>>>>>>> on;y time they can be a pita is when changing rear pads, need to >>>>>>>> plug in a scan tool and tell the car what you are doing to stop >>>>>>>> it automatically applying the park brake.


    I haven't found anything yet to really dislike, although I'm >>>>>>>>> not sure about the adaptive cruise control, maybe I'll get used >>>>>>>>> to it.

    I've never owned a car with it but I've driven a few and think >>>>>>>> its a great idea, you have to keep an eye on your speed because >>>>>>>> sometimes you don't notice if the car in front has slowed down >>>>>>>> causing your car to slow down.

    **Well, that's true enough, but keeping one's eyes on the road
    and the instruments is pretty much a basic driving procedure.


    -a-aIt has a
    "Digital" rear view mirror, you can switch it between a
    conventional mirror and a screen connected to a camera on the >>>>>>>>> tailgate. The picture from the camera is excellent, and gives a >>>>>>>>> wider view than the mirror. The problem is that looking in a >>>>>>>>> mirror, objects appear the same distance behind the mirror as >>>>>>>>> they are in front so your eyes don't need to re-focus. The
    camera view, however, involves looking a screen centimetres >>>>>>>>> away, so it takes a finite time to re- focus when you glance at >>>>>>>>> it.

    Seems pointless.

    **Yeah, right up until you stick three front row forwards in the >>>>>>> back seat, or you load relatives luggage from their trip to Japan >>>>>>> in the back, when you collect them from the airport. Trust me: If >>>>>>> you want to see what is happening behind you, then the electronic >>>>>>> rear vision system (as in my Suby) is bloody brilliant. With the >>>>>>> Suby (and, I assume the Toyota), you can change the magnification >>>>>>> of the system very simply, if you ever need it. Oh yeah: It's
    very, VERY good at night. Way better than a simple rear vision
    mirror. That said, the Suby camera is up high. roughly at the
    driver's eye level. The reversing camera is mounted down low,
    where it needs to be. I am surprised to hear that the Toyota has >>>>>>> it's camera mounted below the driver's eye-line.


    I've owned 2 vans and a couple of wagons, all long before rear
    view cameras were invented yet I still managed to avoid backing
    into anything.
    All 3 of our cars have reverse cameras, the VW's is the best
    because the camera is hidden under the rear VW badge so it stays
    clean, Porsche has the screen in the rear view mirror (after
    market) and its not very good, better than nothing but only just, >>>>>> the CLK also has an aftermarket rear camera, wasn't working when I >>>>>> got the car because it wasn't wired properly which I fixed, camera >>>>>> works okay but I still use the mirrors and listen for the factory >>>>>> front and rear parking sensors which I find to be more useful than >>>>>> the camera.
    Trucks don't have a middle rear view mirror, I've never driven a
    truck fitted with a reversing camera, try reversing a 60foot semi, >>>>>> you just need to take care.
    IMHO too much reliance on car tech is dumbing down drivers,
    driving standards are getting worse every day and I think
    excessive tech is partly to blame.

    Depends on the environment to some degree, I hear the Army aren't
    exactly enamoured the their Mercedes 4WDs, the old Land Rovers
    could often be fixed in the field, but, if a Merc breaks, it a back >>>>> to the depot job.

    The issue with Mercs, and any vehicle made by Germans, is that they
    demand TLC in their maintenance.

    Similarly, a friend did the trip to the Cape. At a garage at one of >>>>> the settlements, he saw a bunch of modern 4WDs out the back. When
    he asked about them, he was told that they were waiting to be taken >>>>> south for scrapping. They had been submerged in tidal rivers and
    the salt water had buggered the electronics to the extent that the
    cost of repair exceeded the insurance value.

    Any car, 4WDs included, if driven in water up to the level of the
    glass, is an automatic write off. That's because of the multitude of
    electrics and electronics inside the doors.-a Any car that has salt
    water *inside* the interior will also be an automatic write off. The
    problem with salt water immersion is that the decay happens over
    time so every single wiring connector will be eaten away over time.
    Due to the low currents in electronic circuits, this corrosion will
    create high resistances so the car will start having a myriad of
    strange gremlins cropping up. I have even seen complete tracks
    etched off circuit boards over time. Salt is bad enough when the car
    is only exposed to road salting on the underside - lots of gremlins
    - but they can be relatively easily found because of connector
    accessibility. Not so with complete car immersion, the salt gets
    into *everything*.

    Lots of words to say the obvious. The point is that the older cars,
    even if they got problems, could be repaired reasonably easily and
    economically, the cost of fixing the modern ones exceeds their worth.


    Cost of everything has gone nuts, replaced the front windscreen wipers
    on the Golf last week, cheapest I could find cost $75.00, it may have
    been possible to just replace the inserts but no one stocked them.
    The problem with newer car with lots of electrics isn't so much the
    cost of the parts but diagnosing problems can be very difficult even
    for dealers.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZtoHjJSZ4Y
    The dealer spent something like 20k Euros trying to fix this electric
    van but it still wasn't fixed, they told the owner it need another
    huge pile of money spent on it to fix it so he gave up and got rid of it.
    It was eventually fixed by replacing a relatively cheap cable, trouble
    is it took a huge amount of effort and a bit of luck to find the problem.

    It was not luck. As I have said many times, the DTCs do not always tell
    you everything. Nor do they always tell you what the fault is - or
    where. The problem in the trade is that people *think* the code reader
    tells all - and that is where the issues start.

    Very, very few in the trade thinks the code reader tells all, that is
    what those outside of the trade think.

    Those in the trade know it's just a tool like any other tool in your
    toolbox. The diagnostic tools available and how to use them goes way
    beyond reading codes. The skills to use that tool effectively come from training, diagnostic procedures *and* experience.

    However, some people have a natural ability to think outside of the
    square or have a greater interest in a particular field that is
    advantageous - that is true and that can be helpful. My understanding of electronics and electrics as well as experience has certainly benefited
    me over the years, certainly financially.

    The issues continue with
    people thinking they know everything once they finish their
    apprenticeship.

    I haven't met any young people just out of their time that think that -
    from any trade.

    Nothing could be further from reality. Too many people
    in the trade know too little about electricity - much less electronics.
    That needs to change. The above example is a clear cut case of the
    mechanics *believing* the code reader whilst failing to understand the issue.

    The biggest issue in my view is not the understanding so much as
    dealership training is excellent but how dealership techs are pressured
    and incentivised to get cars out the door as quickly as possible *and* warranty work *has to be performed and has to be shown in writing* to
    have followed the exact workshop diagnostic procedure or risk a warranty
    claim decline or a charge-back from a manufacturer.

    It's much more complicated than "thinking the code reader tells all"
    though of course there will be those who just don't give a fuck.
    You have those in every trade and the automotive trade is no exception, especially in those states where consumers have little protection from
    shonks - like Victoria.
    --
    In thread "May need to buy petrol soon" Sept 23 2021 11:15:59am
    Keithr0 wrote: "He made the assertion either he proves it or he is a
    proven liar."

    On Sept 23 2021 3:16:29pm Keithr0 wrote:
    "He asserts that the claim is true, so, if it is unproven, he is lying."
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Trevor Wilson@trevor@rageaudio.com.au to aus.cars on Fri Jan 2 19:52:25 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 30/12/2025 10:46 am, Noddy wrote:
    On 30/12/2025 8:15 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 29/12/2025 9:03 pm, Noddy wrote:

    **Bullshit. Electronics, in general, have improved car reliability
    dramatically.

    Come on Trev. You're taking the piss, surely :)

    **Nope. Unlike you (apparently), I've owned a large range of cars,
    with varying levels of electronics within their systems. As I moved
    from car to car, reliability improved, as more electronic systems were
    introduced. My VH Commodore, for instance, with it's relatively
    primitive electronic ignition system, was a vast improvement (WRT
    reliability and reduced maintenance) over my previous Ford Escorts and
    Holden (FC) I owned. My VL was a huge leap again, with it's EFI
    system. And so on. I vividly recall how often I had to change points,
    adjust timing and all those other things. Perhaps you've forgotten.

    Not at all. I still own vehicles that have points ignition systems and carburettors. They're generally not anywhere near as problematic as you
    make them out to be,

    **Yes, they are. I've adjusted my fair share of points (and replaced
    same) many, many times. I've never had to touch the timing on any modern
    EFI car. Ever. A HUGE step forward in so many ways. Even my VH was a respectable step forward. And that was a very primitive implementation
    of electronics in a car.

    and in fact their biggest enemy was people who had
    no idea what they were doing messing with them. Their overwhelming
    advantage was that, unlike modern cars, they could be fixed on the side
    of the road easily if they stopped :)

    **That is a way overblown advantage, given the extreme reliability of
    modern electrical ignition systems.


    And if we're going to play the "unlike you" game, then I would reply in saying that unlike you I have worked on *hundreds* cars over the years
    as well as owning an unknown number of cars myself, and if you think
    that the continual addition of electronic control for an ever increasing number of functions to modern cars has made them more reliable then you
    are delusional in the extreme.

    **Here's my opinion on cars:

    Out of 100 typical faults in cars, I bet you the following are
    approximately factual:

    90 will be mechanical faults.
    8 will be electro-mechanical faults.
    2 will be purely electronic faults.

    I may just check with my mechanic to see how for out I am.


    Cars are *incredibly* complex machines these days, and as a result of
    that complexity they have a brittleness that has been unknown in
    previous times. They're wonderful machines that are capable of things
    that 40 years ago people could never have imagined, but they are
    incredibly fragile as a result.

    **Bollocks. Sure, if an electronic system fails, then you may be in a
    world of pain. However, such systems are far more reliable than purely mechanical ones.

    I cite the example of EFI as one that has VASTLY improved almost
    every aspect of engine flexibility, performance, economy and
    reliability.

    Then you'd be citing it for the wrong reasons.

    **Really? You're wrong, of course.

    Yeah, well. Your limited personal experience is *not* the average.

    **Yeah, it is.



    EFI improved many things, such as fuel economy, power output and even
    engine wear, but reliability was hit and miss. A *lot* of early EFI
    cars had electrical gremlins up the whazoo, and some were quite
    famous for it. VL Commodores with crank angle sensors were a famous
    example.

    **My VL never gave me a hint of issues. Brilliant car. Well, the
    engine was excellent anyway.

    And this is a perfect example of how your personal experience doesn't
    tell you much. The Nissan RB30 engine as used in the VL Commodore was exceptionally well known for two distinct issues: Cylinder head
    cracking, and ignition system failures.

    **You just proved my point. MECHANICAL systems are the problem. NOT
    electronic systems. For the record: The same engine in the Nissan
    Skyline gave far fewer problems, thanks to superior cooling system
    design in the Nissan.


    the CAS failure rate was so high that just about every parts seller in
    the country kept change over units in stock.

    **Never had a problem with mine. I assume the CAS is a consumable? If
    so, my mechanic would have replaced it at the suggested intervals.


    Things have not universally improved today. While economy and power
    output continue to improve, reliability seems to be conversely affected. >>
    **Nope. I've noted a continuous improvement in reliability of my cars
    over time. That said, I've never owned any Euro-shit. Perhaps they're
    different.

    As I mentioned, your personal experience is *not* the average. There are thousands of people who would happily disagree with you.

    **And I would be happy to argue that electronic systems have made cars
    far more reliable, economical and driveable.


    Cars are more fragile today than they ever have been in their
    history, and the "electronics" side of things is the overwhelming
    brittleness.

    **Nonsense.

    The only thing nonsensical about this is your lack of experience making
    you completely oblivious of the reality.

    **That's just it: I DO have more than 50 years of car ownership
    experience. I KNOW which parts of my cars have been troublesome. It has
    not been the electronics.


    My 8 year old Suby has enormous amounts of electronics. 23 CPUs
    amongst those components. NOTHING has ever gone wrong with the Suby.
    Except for my own stupidity. Now, Euro-shit is a different matter.
    They probably don't do things as well as the Japs.

    They probably don't, but your example of one does not an average make.

    **Subaru is an average car maker. Not at the top, nor at the bottom
    (price-wise).

    And they've had their problems like everyone else.

    **I'm sure they have. Complex mechanical systems (like those in cars)
    will always fail.



    There are *plenty* of cars out there today with electronic gremlins
    Trev, and it's not just the Euros.

    **Such as? And let's be real here: We're not talking about bad design.
    We're talking about electronic failures in otherwise well designed cars.

    Two things here. Firstly it's a bit late in the conversation to start qualifying your remarks, and secondly "well designed" is incredibly subjective :)

    There are a number of reasons why cars fail today, and design is only a
    part of it. The continual search for lower costs is a factor, as is inadequate testing along with the increasingly stringent emissions
    standards vehicles are expected to meet today. Many vehicles today
    suffer from issues that are the result of nothing more than components
    not being as durable as they should be. EGR valves are a big problem
    today.

    **Mechanical systems. Thanks for proving my point.


    Oxygen sensors are a very common failure point.

    **Consumable.

    Fuel injectors
    having remarkably short lives.

    **Electro-mechanical device. Again: It is MECHANICAL systems that cause
    the vast majority of problems. Not the electronics.

    Cam and crank position sensors are famous
    for random failures on many vehicles.

    **Consumables. Hardly electronic devices.

    Variable rate charging systems can
    be erratic.

    These are just some of the everyday normalities. But then you have your "freak" issues, like electric power steering malfunctions which affected Toyota Corollas some years ago in the US that saw cars suddenly pull on
    full right or left lock at freeway speeds, and drive by wire throttle systems that would stick fully open which also affected some Toyotas if
    I recall.

    **Sounds a lot like my old man's Valiant. A common fault on that model
    (AP6, I think).

    They're far from isolated incidents, but the point being that
    *none* of these things were problems that affected older cars in the
    main, and they are all side effects of the complexity of modern vehicles.

    **Wrong. Valiant AP6. Common fault.


    If you've had a trouble free motoring experience then congratulations,
    but you have been exceptionally lucky if that's the case.

    **Trouble free? Nope. After moving to modern, EFI cars, then yes. MUCH
    more reliable.

    *Thousands* of
    people have not, and I would suggest that if you want a genuine arms
    length opinion on that then talk to your mechanic. I'm sure he'll tell
    you the same thing I am :)

    **If I can catch him with 5 mins to spare, I will. He is busier than a
    one legged man in an arse kicking contest.
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  • From Trevor Wilson@trevor@rageaudio.com.au to aus.cars on Fri Jan 2 19:54:07 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 30/12/2025 3:19 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 29/12/2025 7:20 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 29/12/2025 6:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    A week ago last Friday, the car fairy paid a visit, and, like all
    good fairies, left a present - a RAV4.

    **Nice. I've short-listed the RAV4 PHEV for a test drive. I hope it
    meets with expectations and equals the equivalent Lexus (which I have
    driven).


    It has only done one journey beyond the local area, a 25Km trip to
    our daughter's place for Xmas day, but the economy looks OK, usually
    in the low 5s, sometimes in the upper 4s. It's quite a change from
    the Mazda 3, apart from the driving position being significantly
    higher, things have moved on in the 10 years since we bought the M3.

    Yeah, economy is pretty good for a big car.


    It's the first car that I've owned without a manual handbrake, I used
    to use it any time I had to stop for more than a few second, and
    disliked the electric ones. In this one though, although it is
    electric, there is little reason to to touch it, it comes on
    automatically in park, and there is a hold function for the times
    when I'd have used the manual one for a short stop.

    **Yep. Similar to my 8 year old Suby. Very convenient.


    I haven't found anything yet to really dislike, although I'm not sure
    about the adaptive cruise control, maybe I'll get used to it.

    **You will. It can make driving very relaxing, if you use it right.

    -a-aIt has a
    "Digital" rear view mirror, you can switch it between a conventional
    mirror and a screen connected to a camera on the tailgate. The
    picture from the camera is excellent, and gives a wider view than the
    mirror. The problem is that looking in a mirror, objects appear the
    same distance behind the mirror as they are in front so your eyes
    don't need to re-focus. The camera view, however, involves looking a
    screen centimetres away, so it takes a finite time to re-focus when
    you glance at it.

    **Same as my Suby. I rarely use it, but when the back is fully loaded,
    it works a treat. I love showing it to people who have never seen it.
    Freaks 'em out.


    The 360 view camera, is good when getting into a tight or awkward
    parking spot, it comes on automatically in reverse, but, if you want
    it while going forward, they put the switch in a really awkward spot
    at the bottom of the dash.

    **I don't get that in the Suby. Don't get that daft engine shut-off
    either. I guess Subaru figured that a performance car doesn't need
    that shit.

    I assume you have RCA (Rear Crossing Alert) or similar. Utterly
    brilliant. It should be mandatory on all cars.

    Even the 10yo Mazda 3 had that.

    One thing I don't like about Toyotas, is the implementation of the
    auto braking. That said, maybe they've improved. Subaru does it much
    better. Maybe it's because they use cameras.

    I guess you don't have a spare tyre?

    I wouldn't buy a car that didn't have one. All models of the RAV4 have
    them, if you buy the poverty pack, you can pay extra for a full size
    one, not sure why not with the other models.


    **I am hopeful that the RAV4 PHEV carries a spare. No one seems to know
    right now.
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  • From Trevor Wilson@trevor@rageaudio.com.au to aus.cars on Fri Jan 2 20:16:36 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 30/12/2025 9:55 am, Clocky wrote:
    On 29/12/2025 5:49 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 29/12/2025 8:19 pm, Daryl wrote:
    On 29/12/2025 6:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    A week ago last Friday, the car fairy paid a visit, and, like all
    good fairies, left a present - a RAV4.

    It has only done one journey beyond the local area, a 25Km trip to
    our daughter's place for Xmas day, but the economy looks OK, usually
    in the low 5s, sometimes in the upper 4s. It's quite a change from
    the Mazda 3, apart from the driving position being significantly
    higher, things have moved on in the 10 years since we bought the M3.

    Not necessarily for the better IMO, too much electronics to go wrong,
    most of it is pretty reliable but can be a nightmare when it isn't.

    **Bullshit. Electronics, in general, have improved car reliability
    dramatically.

    Absolute garbage. Most definitely not.

    -aI cite the example of EFI as one that has VASTLY improved
    almost every aspect of engine flexibility,

    Yeah that was many decades ago now and did vastly improve reliability
    but as time has gone on and countless modules and systems have been introduced for superfluous bullshit reliability has declined.

    And that's not just electronics - cost reduction, emission control
    systems, CRD and pushing engines to their limits etc have all
    contributed to a decline in long term reliability.



    **Bullshit. My FC Holden was pretty much buggered at around 100,000
    miles. My first Escort (1.3L) was headed for a major engine rebuild at
    around 100,000km. My second Escort (1.6L pushrod) was a dud from day
    one, but it was headed for the scrapyard at around 100,000km. My first
    2L SOHC Escort was a bit special. It actually lasted quite well, whilst proving me with huge enjoyment. Even at 100,000km, it was happily
    revving past 7,000RPM. Until it was written off by an idiot running a
    red. My last Escort (2L) was a disappointment, but it lasted past
    150,000km. I actually managed to sell it. Then my VH Commodore came
    along. It lasted 175,000km before a complete engine swap (big mistake - Higginbottom disaster). That engine lasted another 100,000km, before it
    died. After that, my VL. Never gave me a minute's problems. Sold with 220,000km up. Then came my VP Commodore. Bits would fall off it and the
    paint was, well, barely paint, but it was generally quite reliable,
    until a tree branch (weighing an estimated 3 Tonnes) killed it at around 250,000km. Then I drove my partner's Ford Telstar. We sold it at
    245,000km. It was running fine. I just couldn't get the air-con fixed.
    Then my Nissan Stagea. I sold it at 245,000kms. I regularly receive
    texts from the purchaser, who is clocking up big kms in it. He loves it.
    As did I. It was a quite sophisticated car, electronically. Drive by
    wire, reversing camera, GPS, auto folding and tilting mirrors, etc, etc.

    All I can say is that cars are getting more reliable with each purchase.
    My Subaru Levorg has not given me a millisecond's trouble in 7 years. Of course, I've been using the same mechanic, or the guy who trained under
    that mechanic for many years. I trust him/them to ensure that my cars
    are reliable. In fact, when I purchased the VL, he swapped out the
    radiator cap on day one for a Toyota(?!) unit.
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  • From Noddy@me@home.com to aus.cars on Fri Jan 2 20:31:55 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 2/01/2026 11:31 am, keithr0 wrote:
    On 1/01/2026 8:15 pm, Noddy wrote:

    That's it right there. Carrying a spare wheel is fine, but the number
    of people who (a) are prepared to use it, and (b) know how to if they
    wanted to is rapidly diminishing by the day.

    That's because they are a bunch of panseys. I hit a pothole hidden in a puddle in my VW Passat. It was obvious that the tyre was totally fucked
    due to a chunk taken out of the sidewall. So, in the pouring rain, out
    with the spare and tools. A yank cop stopped, (can't imagine a QLD cop
    doing so) put a warning flare on the road and held the torch while I
    changed the tyre. He remarked that it was the first time in years that
    he had seen someone change their own tyre. I thought that it was just America, but apparently not.

    The overwhelming majority of people do not these days. They call
    roadside assist.

    I simply cannot tell you the number of older cars I've bought or
    worked on where the spare wheel still has the original tyre fitted and
    has never seen the road.

    I've had 3 tyres and a wheel taken out by potholes in the last 25 years,
    not frequent, but frequent enough.

    1 every just over 8 years on average. If you calculated how much it cost
    you in fuel to lug the extra 25kg on average a spare wheel weighs for
    that once in every 8 year event you might think calling someone to do it
    makes far more sense :)

    My vehicles carry spare wheels, but I can't remember the last time I was forced to use one. Decades probably....
    --
    --
    --
    Regards,
    Noddy.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Noddy@me@home.com to aus.cars on Fri Jan 2 20:33:02 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 2/01/2026 12:14 pm, Daryl wrote:
    On 1/1/2026 9:15 pm, Noddy wrote:

    I've shown this pic before, but the Fairlane was the largest car Ford
    Australia made back in the day.

    https://ibb.co/V3RvwFx

    Still makes me laugh :)



    LOL, I wanted to buy that model Fairlane to tow a caravan but my wife wouldn't have it because it was too big and when it wasn't being used
    for towing it would have been her daily driver.

    Looks like a pedal car today :)
    --
    --
    --
    Regards,
    Noddy.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From keithr0@me@bugger.off.com.au to aus.cars on Fri Jan 2 20:08:57 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 2/01/2026 3:53 pm, Xeno wrote:
    On 1/1/2026 9:41 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 1/01/2026 6:32 pm, Xeno wrote:
    On 31/12/2025 5:07 pm, Daryl wrote:
    On 31/12/2025 3:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 31/12/2025 12:31 pm, Xeno wrote:
    On 31/12/2025 10:20 am, Daryl wrote:

    <snippety doo dah>


    Maybe mechanics figure they don't need to go back to Tech, they'll >>>>>> just learn from *experience*. Just like Darren did when he
    *experienced* what would happen when he removed ~20 thou of piston >>>>>> to valve clearance on Les' engine. Hmm, that was a rather
    expensive lesson, wasn't it? Not as expensive as the above parts
    cannon exercise with the BEV but getting up there!

    Just the usual crap that, for some strange reason, you find
    necessary to include no matter the subject.

    He can't help himself, he is wrong on all counts because it never
    happened yet he keeping go over the same shit making a fool of
    himself over and over again.
    The people who couldn't find the fault were dealer trained and
    following the manufactures fault finding procedures, the ones who
    eventually found the fault were independents who worked it out
    without specific training on that model, so much for dealing
    "training".

    You really don't have a clue, do you? It's all about understanding
    electrical concepts hence the ability to conduct effective testing. I
    have stated many times in the past - a lot of mechanics simply do not
    understand *electricity* well enough to do basic testing much less
    the testing of electronic or networking circuitry. Dealer training
    has nothing to do with it. These chaps *understood* electrical
    concepts and were able to translate that to an effective testing regime.

    I.E. talent is more important than qualifications. Thanks for agreeing.

    Hardly! Training is what is needed. From training and associated work experience comes certification.


    AI Overview
    Working on Battery Electric Vehicles (BEVs) in the U.S. requires
    specialized training, certifications (like ASE EV certifications and
    EVITP for electricians), and adherence to strict safety standards (like
    NFPA 70E) due to high voltages (200-600V), demanding skills in
    electrical systems, advanced software, robotics, and safe chemical
    handling, often involving hands-on apprenticeships and focusing on
    complex problem-solving.
    Key Requirements & Skills:
    Electrical Expertise: High-voltage systems (200-600V), power inverters, DC-DC converters, and battery management systems (BMS).
    Safety Certifications: Mandatory training for "Qualified Electrical
    Workers" under NFPA 70E, including Lockout/Tagout procedures and arc
    flash prevention.
    Technical Skills: Proficiency with computer systems, AI, robotics, data literacy, and complex diagnostic software.
    Specialized Certifications: ASE's xEV certifications (Electrical Safety Awareness, Technician Electrical Safety) are becoming industry standards. Electrician Training: EVITP certification for installing and maintaining charging infrastructure.
    Soft Skills: Complex problem-solving, precision, and strong attention to detail are crucial.
    Training & Education Pathways:
    Apprenticeships: "Earn-and-learn" opportunities through employer-based programs.
    Formal Training: Programs integrating hands-on robotics, AI, and data literacy.
    On-the-Job Training: Essential for practical skills development.

    Want to work on BEVs in the US? You need training and *must have* certification else you don't get to first base. In order to work on
    anything above ~60 Volts DC, you are required to have appropriate
    electrical certification and you don't get that just because you're *talented*. Darren may have you convinced trade qualifications and certifications come in Weeties packets but that's not how the real world works hence there is no record anywhere of Darren's claimed achievements.


    The concept of isolating a faulty component from the rest of its
    circuitry is not new and not isolated to electrical.

    Rare these days in electronics

    I did mention *discrete circuitry*. If the board or circuit doesn't have
    a lot of discrete components, as is common in electronics these days,
    then the method is fraught.

    It is common in electronics to test discrete components *out of
    circuit* so that the circuitry does not provide any form of *loading*.

    You obviously know little about fault finding electronics, it's rare
    to have to do that, 90% of the time, the only reason that you take a
    component out of circuit is because you have already determined that
    it is faulty.

    That is all the indies did, they disconnected *both* ends of the HV
    Cable from the associated circuits and that *isolated the fault to
    one of two wires which was then easy to test.

    Test how?

    IIRC, the tech used an *insulation tester*. Specialised areas,
    specialised tools, specialised training. Not surprised you didn't notice that point in the video - a whoosh moment for you.

    It is exactly what I would have done. Just need to have relevant test
    equipment and know how to use it. That you need to be told this tells
    me that your training in and understanding of electrical concepts is
    also rather sparse.

    ROTFL, Your knowledge of diagnosing electronics is about on the same
    level as the 14yo who wants to be an auto sparky.

    The most difficult part of diagnosing electronic faults is recreating
    the problem, if it is there constantly, it's gift. Take it from
    somebody who spent 40 years fixing electronics of all kinds.

    The hero speaketh!

    The sound of running feet disappearing into the distance.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Xeno@xenolith@optusnet.com.au to aus.cars on Fri Jan 2 21:16:57 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 2/1/2026 8:33 pm, Noddy wrote:
    On 2/01/2026 12:14 pm, Daryl wrote:
    On 1/1/2026 9:15 pm, Noddy wrote:

    I've shown this pic before, but the Fairlane was the largest car Ford
    Australia made back in the day.

    https://ibb.co/V3RvwFx

    Still makes me laugh :)



    LOL, I wanted to buy that model Fairlane to tow a caravan but my wife
    wouldn't have it because it was too big and when it wasn't being used
    for towing it would have been her daily driver.

    Looks like a pedal car today :)

    Nope, it is still a big car. The Fairlane still is a big *sedan* by
    today's standards. The length and width would easily match or exceed a
    lot of the SUVs today. It only lacks *height* and sedans were never
    designed to be high riding cars - even today.

    You would do better to compare a Ford Territory with an equivalent era
    Falcon, the BA Falcon IIRC, to get a better idea since the Territory
    uses the basic falcon floor pan anyway. The Ford Australia president,
    Geoff Polites said

    "People were telling us they really want an amalgam of three types of
    vehicle. Take a typical family sedan, a people mover and a
    four-wheel-drive and combine their best attributes. That means the high seating position and bold styling of the four-wheel-drive, the ability
    to carry seven people like the MPV, and passenger car ride and handling."
    Well, that's now all they have, the Falcon, the Commodore and the
    Valiant having all bitten the dust!
    --
    Xeno

    Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
    (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Xeno@xenolith@optusnet.com.au to aus.cars on Fri Jan 2 21:17:52 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 2/1/2026 9:08 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 2/01/2026 3:53 pm, Xeno wrote:
    On 1/1/2026 9:41 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 1/01/2026 6:32 pm, Xeno wrote:
    On 31/12/2025 5:07 pm, Daryl wrote:
    On 31/12/2025 3:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 31/12/2025 12:31 pm, Xeno wrote:
    On 31/12/2025 10:20 am, Daryl wrote:

    <snippety doo dah>


    Maybe mechanics figure they don't need to go back to Tech,
    they'll just learn from *experience*. Just like Darren did when >>>>>>> he *experienced* what would happen when he removed ~20 thou of
    piston to valve clearance on Les' engine. Hmm, that was a rather >>>>>>> expensive lesson, wasn't it? Not as expensive as the above parts >>>>>>> cannon exercise with the BEV but getting up there!

    Just the usual crap that, for some strange reason, you find
    necessary to include no matter the subject.

    He can't help himself, he is wrong on all counts because it never
    happened yet he keeping go over the same shit making a fool of
    himself over and over again.
    The people who couldn't find the fault were dealer trained and
    following the manufactures fault finding procedures, the ones who
    eventually found the fault were independents who worked it out
    without specific training on that model, so much for dealing
    "training".

    You really don't have a clue, do you? It's all about understanding
    electrical concepts hence the ability to conduct effective testing.
    I have stated many times in the past - a lot of mechanics simply do
    not understand *electricity* well enough to do basic testing much
    less the testing of electronic or networking circuitry. Dealer
    training has nothing to do with it. These chaps *understood*
    electrical concepts and were able to translate that to an effective
    testing regime.

    I.E. talent is more important than qualifications. Thanks for agreeing.

    Hardly! Training is what is needed. From training and associated work
    experience comes certification.


    AI Overview
    Working on Battery Electric Vehicles (BEVs) in the U.S. requires
    specialized training, certifications (like ASE EV certifications and
    EVITP for electricians), and adherence to strict safety standards
    (like NFPA 70E) due to high voltages (200-600V), demanding skills in
    electrical systems, advanced software, robotics, and safe chemical
    handling, often involving hands-on apprenticeships and focusing on
    complex problem-solving.
    Key Requirements & Skills:
    Electrical Expertise: High-voltage systems (200-600V), power
    inverters, DC-DC converters, and battery management systems (BMS).
    Safety Certifications: Mandatory training for "Qualified Electrical
    Workers" under NFPA 70E, including Lockout/Tagout procedures and arc
    flash prevention.
    Technical Skills: Proficiency with computer systems, AI, robotics,
    data literacy, and complex diagnostic software.
    Specialized Certifications: ASE's xEV certifications (Electrical
    Safety Awareness, Technician Electrical Safety) are becoming industry
    standards.
    Electrician Training: EVITP certification for installing and
    maintaining charging infrastructure.
    Soft Skills: Complex problem-solving, precision, and strong attention
    to detail are crucial.
    Training & Education Pathways:
    Apprenticeships: "Earn-and-learn" opportunities through employer-based
    programs.
    Formal Training: Programs integrating hands-on robotics, AI, and data
    literacy.
    On-the-Job Training: Essential for practical skills development.

    Want to work on BEVs in the US? You need training and *must have*
    certification else you don't get to first base. In order to work on
    anything above ~60 Volts DC, you are required to have appropriate
    electrical certification and you don't get that just because you're
    *talented*. Darren may have you convinced trade qualifications and
    certifications come in Weeties packets but that's not how the real
    world works hence there is no record anywhere of Darren's claimed
    achievements.


    The concept of isolating a faulty component from the rest of its
    circuitry is not new and not isolated to electrical.

    Rare these days in electronics

    I did mention *discrete circuitry*. If the board or circuit doesn't
    have a lot of discrete components, as is common in electronics these
    days, then the method is fraught.

    It is common in electronics to test discrete components *out of
    circuit* so that the circuitry does not provide any form of *loading*. >>>
    You obviously know little about fault finding electronics, it's rare
    to have to do that, 90% of the time, the only reason that you take a
    component out of circuit is because you have already determined that
    it is faulty.

    That is all the indies did, they disconnected *both* ends of the HV
    Cable from the associated circuits and that *isolated the fault to
    one of two wires which was then easy to test.

    Test how?

    IIRC, the tech used an *insulation tester*. Specialised areas,
    specialised tools, specialised training. Not surprised you didn't
    notice that point in the video - a whoosh moment for you.

    It is exactly what I would have done. Just need to have relevant
    test equipment and know how to use it. That you need to be told this
    tells me that your training in and understanding of electrical
    concepts is also rather sparse.

    ROTFL, Your knowledge of diagnosing electronics is about on the same
    level as the 14yo who wants to be an auto sparky.

    The most difficult part of diagnosing electronic faults is recreating
    the problem, if it is there constantly, it's gift. Take it from
    somebody who spent 40 years fixing electronics of all kinds.

    The hero speaketh!

    The sound of running feet disappearing into the distance.

    Yeah, yours!
    --
    Xeno

    Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
    (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Xeno@xenolith@optusnet.com.au to aus.cars on Fri Jan 2 21:18:27 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 2/1/2026 7:54 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 30/12/2025 3:19 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 29/12/2025 7:20 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 29/12/2025 6:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    A week ago last Friday, the car fairy paid a visit, and, like all
    good fairies, left a present - a RAV4.

    **Nice. I've short-listed the RAV4 PHEV for a test drive. I hope it
    meets with expectations and equals the equivalent Lexus (which I have
    driven).


    It has only done one journey beyond the local area, a 25Km trip to
    our daughter's place for Xmas day, but the economy looks OK, usually
    in the low 5s, sometimes in the upper 4s. It's quite a change from
    the Mazda 3, apart from the driving position being significantly
    higher, things have moved on in the 10 years since we bought the M3.

    Yeah, economy is pretty good for a big car.


    It's the first car that I've owned without a manual handbrake, I
    used to use it any time I had to stop for more than a few second,
    and disliked the electric ones. In this one though, although it is
    electric, there is little reason to to touch it, it comes on
    automatically in park, and there is a hold function for the times
    when I'd have used the manual one for a short stop.

    **Yep. Similar to my 8 year old Suby. Very convenient.


    I haven't found anything yet to really dislike, although I'm not
    sure about the adaptive cruise control, maybe I'll get used to it.

    **You will. It can make driving very relaxing, if you use it right.

    -a-aIt has a
    "Digital" rear view mirror, you can switch it between a conventional
    mirror and a screen connected to a camera on the tailgate. The
    picture from the camera is excellent, and gives a wider view than
    the mirror. The problem is that looking in a mirror, objects appear
    the same distance behind the mirror as they are in front so your
    eyes don't need to re-focus. The camera view, however, involves
    looking a screen centimetres away, so it takes a finite time to re-
    focus when you glance at it.

    **Same as my Suby. I rarely use it, but when the back is fully
    loaded, it works a treat. I love showing it to people who have never
    seen it. Freaks 'em out.


    The 360 view camera, is good when getting into a tight or awkward
    parking spot, it comes on automatically in reverse, but, if you want
    it while going forward, they put the switch in a really awkward spot
    at the bottom of the dash.

    **I don't get that in the Suby. Don't get that daft engine shut-off
    either. I guess Subaru figured that a performance car doesn't need
    that shit.

    I assume you have RCA (Rear Crossing Alert) or similar. Utterly
    brilliant. It should be mandatory on all cars.

    Even the 10yo Mazda 3 had that.

    One thing I don't like about Toyotas, is the implementation of the
    auto braking. That said, maybe they've improved. Subaru does it much
    better. Maybe it's because they use cameras.

    I guess you don't have a spare tyre?

    I wouldn't buy a car that didn't have one. All models of the RAV4 have
    them, if you buy the poverty pack, you can pay extra for a full size
    one, not sure why not with the other models.


    **I am hopeful that the RAV4 PHEV carries a spare. No one seems to know right now.

    If it is AWD, likely no spare. 2WD should have a space saver. The issue
    is with the location of the rear drive motor and the number of extra batteries.
    --
    Xeno

    Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
    (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From keithr0@me@bugger.off.com.au to aus.cars on Fri Jan 2 20:19:03 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 2/01/2026 12:11 pm, alvey wrote:
    keithr0 wrote:
    On 1/01/2026 12:15 pm, alvey wrote:
    keithr0 wrote:


    I live about 500 metres from salt water, but neither my 30 odd year
    old MX-5, or the 10 year old Mazda 3 showed any corrosion problems.


    Oh btw Retcho.... Didn't you once say that you lived on the western
    side of the Bruce?

    Nope.

    Oh. So you *did* respond. My bad, this time.

    Anyhoo... Speaking of that part of the Sunny... Was coming back from
    Briz a couple of days ago and the Bruce was crawling. The Merk satnav
    told me to take the Roys Rd turn off and come in through Aura. Turned
    out to be a breeze, might even use it as the default as it avoids the spaghetti & crawl that is Caloundra Rd. The Merk maps lived down to expectations though, a couple of Km after the Roys Rd turn-off it had no streets at all in Aura. Turns out that you have to update the Merk maps yourself. Quality service from M-B there. (For the "enquiring minds"...
    I normally use my phone as a route planner).

    At 8am, it's just as bad as Caloundra Road, I've tried it. You also have
    to go through Aura, and that's depressing.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Noddy@me@home.com to aus.cars on Fri Jan 2 21:24:20 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 2/01/2026 7:52 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 30/12/2025 10:46 am, Noddy wrote:

    Not at all. I still own vehicles that have points ignition systems and
    carburettors. They're generally not anywhere near as problematic as
    you make them out to be,

    **Yes, they are.

    No Trevor, they are not.

    I've adjusted my fair share of points (and replaced
    same) many, many times. I've never had to touch the timing on any modern
    EFI car. Ever. A HUGE step forward in so many ways. Even my VH was a respectable step forward. And that was a very primitive implementation
    of electronics in a car.

    So what?

    Changing contact points was a once a year service procedure that for the average car cost around 10 bucks for the points and took all of half an
    hour to do, including running the timing light over the engine and
    adjusting the distributor.

    It was a simple process, so simple even you could do it, and the only
    reason unreliability was part of the equation was when people who
    *didn't* know what they were doing fucked it up.

    -aand in fact their biggest enemy was people who had
    no idea what they were doing messing with them. Their overwhelming
    advantage was that, unlike modern cars, they could be fixed on the
    side of the road easily if they stopped :)

    **That is a way overblown advantage, given the extreme reliability of
    modern electrical ignition systems.

    Lol :)

    The number of electronic ignition equipped cars that stopped suddenly
    and were left stranded on the side of the road *far* exceeded the "unreliability" associated with points ignition systems. This was
    especially so in the 1980's when manufacturers used horrible ignition
    modules that proved to suffer from extreme heat and vibration failures.

    And if we're going to play the "unlike you" game, then I would reply
    in saying that unlike you I have worked on *hundreds* cars over the
    years as well as owning an unknown number of cars myself, and if you
    think that the continual addition of electronic control for an ever
    increasing number of functions to modern cars has made them more
    reliable then you are delusional in the extreme.

    **Here's my opinion on cars:

    Out of 100 typical faults in cars, I bet you the following are
    approximately factual:

    90 will be mechanical faults.
    8 will be electro-mechanical faults.
    2 will be purely electronic faults.

    I may just check with my mechanic to see how for out I am.

    Please, do so, but don't be upset when you discover that you're about as
    wrong as you could possibly be :)

    In my experience, the overwhelming number of faults are either electro mechanical or purely electronic. Mechanical faults are definitely in the minority, and by a very long way.

    Cars are *incredibly* complex machines these days, and as a result of
    that complexity they have a brittleness that has been unknown in
    previous times. They're wonderful machines that are capable of things
    that 40 years ago people could never have imagined, but they are
    incredibly fragile as a result.

    **Bollocks. Sure, if an electronic system fails, then you may be in a
    world of pain. However, such systems are far more reliable than purely mechanical ones.

    What purely mechanical ones are you talking about?

    I cite the example of EFI as one that has VASTLY improved almost
    every aspect of engine flexibility, performance, economy and
    reliability.

    Then you'd be citing it for the wrong reasons.

    **Really? You're wrong, of course.

    Yeah, well. Your limited personal experience is *not* the average.

    **Yeah, it is.

    You're delusional :)

    **My VL never gave me a hint of issues. Brilliant car. Well, the
    engine was excellent anyway.

    And this is a perfect example of how your personal experience doesn't
    tell you much. The Nissan RB30 engine as used in the VL Commodore was
    exceptionally well known for two distinct issues: Cylinder head
    cracking, and ignition system failures.

    **You just proved my point. MECHANICAL systems are the problem. NOT electronic systems. For the record: The same engine in the Nissan
    Skyline gave far fewer problems, thanks to superior cooling system
    design in the Nissan.

    Hate to break it to you. but the ignition system failures for which both
    the VL Commodore *and* the Skyline were *not* mechanical issues.

    the CAS failure rate was so high that just about every parts seller in
    the country kept change over units in stock.

    **Never had a problem with mine. I assume the CAS is a consumable? If
    so, my mechanic would have replaced it at the suggested intervals.

    No, it isn't. Crank angle sensors are not a consumable, they are an
    ignition system component that gets replaced if and when they fail, and
    on the VL Commy and Skyline they failed with *alarming* regularity.

    I have no idea how long you owned your VL Commodore for, but if you
    managed to avoid either the CAS failing or the head cracking then you
    were *extremely* lucky.

    Things have not universally improved today. While economy and power
    output continue to improve, reliability seems to be conversely
    affected.

    **Nope. I've noted a continuous improvement in reliability of my cars
    over time. That said, I've never owned any Euro-shit. Perhaps they're
    different.

    As I mentioned, your personal experience is *not* the average. There
    are thousands of people who would happily disagree with you.

    **And I would be happy to argue that electronic systems have made cars
    far more reliable, economical and driveable.

    And you'd be wrong. Cars these days are not more reliable. They are,
    however, more economical and have more features.

    The only thing nonsensical about this is your lack of experience
    making you completely oblivious of the reality.

    **That's just it: I DO have more than 50 years of car ownership
    experience. I KNOW which parts of my cars have been troublesome. It has
    not been the electronics.

    And *again* you fail to grasp that your personal experience is *not* the average. That you had a trouble free run out of a VL Commodore is a
    prime example of that.

    Thousands of people did not.

    There are *plenty* of cars out there today with electronic gremlins
    Trev, and it's not just the Euros.

    **Such as? And let's be real here: We're not talking about bad
    design. We're talking about electronic failures in otherwise well
    designed cars.

    Two things here. Firstly it's a bit late in the conversation to start
    qualifying your remarks, and secondly "well designed" is incredibly
    subjective :)

    There are a number of reasons why cars fail today, and design is only
    a part of it. The continual search for lower costs is a factor, as is
    inadequate testing along with the increasingly stringent emissions
    standards vehicles are expected to meet today. Many vehicles today
    suffer from issues that are the result of nothing more than components
    not being as durable as they should be. EGR valves are a big problem
    today.

    **Mechanical systems. Thanks for proving my point.

    The failure point on most EGR valves is the electric actuator :)

    -aOxygen sensors are a very common failure point.

    **Consumable.

    Oxygen sensors are *not* a consumable. They have no fixed replacement interval. They are changed when they fail, and they fail often.

    -aFuel injectors
    having remarkably short lives.

    **Electro-mechanical device. Again: It is MECHANICAL systems that cause
    the vast majority of problems. Not the electronics.

    -aCam and crank position sensors are famous
    for random failures on many vehicles.

    **Consumables. Hardly electronic devices.

    You have no idea, do you? They *are* electronic devices, and they are
    *not* "consumables" :)



    -aVariable rate charging systems can
    be erratic.

    These are just some of the everyday normalities. But then you have
    your "freak" issues, like electric power steering malfunctions which
    affected Toyota Corollas some years ago in the US that saw cars
    suddenly pull on full right or left lock at freeway speeds, and drive
    by wire throttle systems that would stick fully open which also
    affected some Toyotas if I recall.

    **Sounds a lot like my old man's Valiant. A common fault on that model
    (AP6, I think).

    -aThey're far from isolated incidents, but the point being that
    *none* of these things were problems that affected older cars in the
    main, and they are all side effects of the complexity of modern vehicles.

    **Wrong. Valiant AP6. Common fault.

    An AP6 Valiant didn't have a fly by wire throttle that randomly decided
    to deck itself to the floor and stay there until the driver shut the
    engine off.

    -a*Thousands* of
    people have not, and I would suggest that if you want a genuine arms
    length opinion on that then talk to your mechanic. I'm sure he'll tell
    you the same thing I am :)

    **If I can catch him with 5 mins to spare, I will. He is busier than a
    one legged man in an arse kicking contest.

    I genuinely suggest you do have a chat to him and get his perspective,
    because as far as I can tell you have an extreme case of tunnel vision
    where you think everyone else's experiences have been exactly the same
    as yours.

    You'll be surprised to hear what he has to say.
    --
    --
    --
    Regards,
    Noddy.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From keithr0@me@bugger.off.com.au to aus.cars on Fri Jan 2 20:36:38 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 2/01/2026 6:54 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 30/12/2025 3:19 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 29/12/2025 7:20 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 29/12/2025 6:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    A week ago last Friday, the car fairy paid a visit, and, like all
    good fairies, left a present - a RAV4.

    **Nice. I've short-listed the RAV4 PHEV for a test drive. I hope it
    meets with expectations and equals the equivalent Lexus (which I have
    driven).


    It has only done one journey beyond the local area, a 25Km trip to
    our daughter's place for Xmas day, but the economy looks OK, usually
    in the low 5s, sometimes in the upper 4s. It's quite a change from
    the Mazda 3, apart from the driving position being significantly
    higher, things have moved on in the 10 years since we bought the M3.

    Yeah, economy is pretty good for a big car.


    It's the first car that I've owned without a manual handbrake, I
    used to use it any time I had to stop for more than a few second,
    and disliked the electric ones. In this one though, although it is
    electric, there is little reason to to touch it, it comes on
    automatically in park, and there is a hold function for the times
    when I'd have used the manual one for a short stop.

    **Yep. Similar to my 8 year old Suby. Very convenient.


    I haven't found anything yet to really dislike, although I'm not
    sure about the adaptive cruise control, maybe I'll get used to it.

    **You will. It can make driving very relaxing, if you use it right.

    -a-aIt has a
    "Digital" rear view mirror, you can switch it between a conventional
    mirror and a screen connected to a camera on the tailgate. The
    picture from the camera is excellent, and gives a wider view than
    the mirror. The problem is that looking in a mirror, objects appear
    the same distance behind the mirror as they are in front so your
    eyes don't need to re-focus. The camera view, however, involves
    looking a screen centimetres away, so it takes a finite time to re-
    focus when you glance at it.

    **Same as my Suby. I rarely use it, but when the back is fully
    loaded, it works a treat. I love showing it to people who have never
    seen it. Freaks 'em out.


    The 360 view camera, is good when getting into a tight or awkward
    parking spot, it comes on automatically in reverse, but, if you want
    it while going forward, they put the switch in a really awkward spot
    at the bottom of the dash.

    **I don't get that in the Suby. Don't get that daft engine shut-off
    either. I guess Subaru figured that a performance car doesn't need
    that shit.

    I assume you have RCA (Rear Crossing Alert) or similar. Utterly
    brilliant. It should be mandatory on all cars.

    Even the 10yo Mazda 3 had that.

    One thing I don't like about Toyotas, is the implementation of the
    auto braking. That said, maybe they've improved. Subaru does it much
    better. Maybe it's because they use cameras.

    I guess you don't have a spare tyre?

    I wouldn't buy a car that didn't have one. All models of the RAV4 have
    them, if you buy the poverty pack, you can pay extra for a full size
    one, not sure why not with the other models.


    **I am hopeful that the RAV4 PHEV carries a spare. No one seems to know right now.

    The US version has a space saver.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Noddy@me@home.com to aus.cars on Fri Jan 2 21:46:04 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 2/01/2026 8:16 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 30/12/2025 9:55 am, Clocky wrote:


    And that's not just electronics - cost reduction, emission control
    systems, CRD and pushing engines to their limits etc have all
    contributed to a decline in long term reliability.



    **Bullshit. My FC Holden was pretty much buggered at around 100,000
    miles. My first Escort (1.3L) was headed for a major engine rebuild at around 100,000km. My second Escort (1.6L pushrod) was a dud from day
    one, but it was headed for the scrapyard at around 100,000km. My first
    2L SOHC Escort was a bit special. It actually lasted quite well, whilst proving me with huge enjoyment. Even at 100,000km, it was happily
    revving past 7,000RPM.

    You understand that there is no fixed mileage limit where cars are
    expected to reach the end of their lives, right?

    Until it was written off by an idiot running a
    red. My last Escort (2L) was a disappointment, but it lasted past
    150,000km. I actually managed to sell it. Then my VH Commodore came
    along. It lasted 175,000km before a complete engine swap (big mistake - Higginbottom disaster). That engine lasted another 100,000km, before it died. After that, my VL. Never gave me a minute's problems. Sold with 220,000km up. Then came my VP Commodore. Bits would fall off it and the paint was, well, barely paint, but it was generally quite reliable,
    until a tree branch (weighing an estimated 3 Tonnes) killed it at around 250,000km. Then I drove my partner's Ford Telstar. We sold it at
    245,000km. It was running fine. I just couldn't get the air-con fixed.

    Far canal! A Telstar :)

    Are you sure you're from this planet originally? I ask because you would
    be the only person on Earth who had a VL Commy and a Telstar that gave
    you no problems.

    Either that or your taking the piss. If your next "trouble free car" was
    a Marina, the cat will be out of the bag :)

    Then my Nissan Stagea. I sold it at 245,000kms. I regularly receive
    texts from the purchaser, who is clocking up big kms in it. He loves it.
    As did I. It was a quite sophisticated car, electronically. Drive by
    wire, reversing camera, GPS, auto folding and tilting mirrors, etc, etc.

    There was nothing special about it Trev.

    All I can say is that cars are getting more reliable with each purchase.

    For *you* they seem to be, but then it sounds like you started off in shitsville and could only go up from there.

    My Subaru Levorg has not given me a millisecond's trouble in 7 years. Of course, I've been using the same mechanic, or the guy who trained under
    that mechanic for many years. I trust him/them to ensure that my cars
    are reliable.

    Then you are placing an obligation on them that they are incapable of
    meeting.

    No criticism of them and I'm sure they're fine people, but *no* mechanic
    can ensure a car is reliable, as that is a condition that is beyond
    their control. All they *can* do is ensure that the vehicle is
    maintained correctly, and serviced & adjusted according to the
    manufacturer's recommendations. Beyond that, the reliability is up to
    the manufacturer, and the price point the vehicle was built to meet.

    In fact, when I purchased the VL, he swapped out the
    radiator cap on day one for a Toyota(?!) unit.

    Unless the cap was faulty there is no advantage to doing so. The cap
    itself wasn't the problem on VL Commodores. It not being the highest
    point in the cooling system was.
    --
    --
    --
    Regards,
    Noddy.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Noddy@me@home.com to aus.cars on Fri Jan 2 21:46:10 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 2/01/2026 4:59 pm, Clocky wrote:

    However, some people have a natural ability to think outside of the
    square or have a greater interest in a particular field that is
    advantageous -

    Yeah, that's right. Like people who, when an intermittent fault with an
    error code that cannot be retrieved can't get the fault to occur when
    they're looking at the vehicle do a bit of lateral thinking and swap
    parts around to see if the fault follows the swap the next time it
    occurs which will positively identify the cause.

    that is true and that can be helpful.

    It is indeed. I know a guy like that. He made a good living solving the problems a lot of other people could not :)

    My understanding of electronics and electrics as well as experience has certainly benefited
    me over the years, certainly financially.

    What was it? House paid off in six years repairing ECU's?

    You should run that by Trevor as an example of just how unreliable
    automotive electronics can be :)
    --
    --
    --
    Regards,
    Noddy.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Xeno@xenolith@optusnet.com.au to aus.cars on Fri Jan 2 21:54:30 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 2/1/2026 9:24 pm, Noddy wrote:
    On 2/01/2026 7:52 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 30/12/2025 10:46 am, Noddy wrote:

    Not at all. I still own vehicles that have points ignition systems
    and carburettors. They're generally not anywhere near as problematic
    as you make them out to be,

    **Yes, they are.

    No Trevor, they are not.

    I've adjusted my fair share of points (and replaced same) many, many
    times. I've never had to touch the timing on any modern EFI car. Ever.
    A HUGE step forward in so many ways. Even my VH was a respectable step
    forward. And that was a very primitive implementation of electronics
    in a car.

    So what?

    Changing contact points was a once a year service procedure that for the average car cost around 10 bucks for the points and took all of half an
    hour to do, including running the timing light over the engine and
    adjusting the distributor.

    It was a simple process, so simple even you could do it, and the only
    reason unreliability was part of the equation was when people who
    *didn't* know what they were doing fucked it up.

    -a-aand in fact their biggest enemy was people who had
    no idea what they were doing messing with them. Their overwhelming
    advantage was that, unlike modern cars, they could be fixed on the
    side of the road easily if they stopped :)

    **That is a way overblown advantage, given the extreme reliability of
    modern electrical ignition systems.

    Lol :)

    The number of electronic ignition equipped cars that stopped suddenly
    and were left stranded on the side of the road *far* exceeded the "unreliability" associated with points ignition systems. This was
    especially so in the 1980's when manufacturers used horrible ignition modules that proved to suffer from extreme heat and vibration failures.

    And if we're going to play the "unlike you" game, then I would reply
    in saying that unlike you I have worked on *hundreds* cars over the
    years as well as owning an unknown number of cars myself, and if you
    think that the continual addition of electronic control for an ever
    increasing number of functions to modern cars has made them more
    reliable then you are delusional in the extreme.

    **Here's my opinion on cars:

    Out of 100 typical faults in cars, I bet you the following are
    approximately factual:

    90 will be mechanical faults.
    8 will be electro-mechanical faults.
    2 will be purely electronic faults.

    I may just check with my mechanic to see how for out I am.

    Please, do so, but don't be upset when you discover that you're about as wrong as you could possibly be :)

    In my experience, the overwhelming number of faults are either electro mechanical or purely electronic. Mechanical faults are definitely in the minority, and by a very long way.

    Cars are *incredibly* complex machines these days, and as a result of
    that complexity they have a brittleness that has been unknown in
    previous times. They're wonderful machines that are capable of things
    that 40 years ago people could never have imagined, but they are
    incredibly fragile as a result.

    **Bollocks. Sure, if an electronic system fails, then you may be in a
    world of pain. However, such systems are far more reliable than purely
    mechanical ones.

    What purely mechanical ones are you talking about?

    Mechanically opened and closed contact points you clown. Not to forget a rubbing block that wears on its cam. Or the mechanical advance mechanism.

    I cite the example of EFI as one that has VASTLY improved almost
    every aspect of engine flexibility, performance, economy and
    reliability.

    Then you'd be citing it for the wrong reasons.

    **Really? You're wrong, of course.

    Yeah, well. Your limited personal experience is *not* the average.

    **Yeah, it is.

    You're delusional :)

    Says the clown who thinks he has done 3 apprenticeships and is qualified
    in 2 trades. You really do need to rock on down to PROV to get your
    reality check! The only delusional one here is you!

    **My VL never gave me a hint of issues. Brilliant car. Well, the
    engine was excellent anyway.

    And this is a perfect example of how your personal experience doesn't
    tell you much. The Nissan RB30 engine as used in the VL Commodore was
    exceptionally well known for two distinct issues: Cylinder head
    cracking, and ignition system failures.

    **You just proved my point. MECHANICAL systems are the problem. NOT
    electronic systems. For the record: The same engine in the Nissan
    Skyline gave far fewer problems, thanks to superior cooling system
    design in the Nissan.

    Hate to break it to you. but the ignition system failures for which both
    the VL Commodore *and* the Skyline were *not* mechanical issues.

    the CAS failure rate was so high that just about every parts seller
    in the country kept change over units in stock.

    **Never had a problem with mine. I assume the CAS is a consumable? If
    so, my mechanic would have replaced it at the suggested intervals.

    No, it isn't. Crank angle sensors are not a consumable, they are an
    ignition system component that gets replaced if and when they fail, and
    on the VL Commy and Skyline they failed with *alarming* regularity.

    Location, location, location Darren. The CAS are exposed to all forms of abuse.

    I have no idea how long you owned your VL Commodore for, but if you
    managed to avoid either the CAS failing or the head cracking then you
    were *extremely* lucky.

    Or had it maintained properly.

    Things have not universally improved today. While economy and power >>>>> output continue to improve, reliability seems to be conversely
    affected.

    **Nope. I've noted a continuous improvement in reliability of my
    cars over time. That said, I've never owned any Euro-shit. Perhaps
    they're different.

    As I mentioned, your personal experience is *not* the average. There
    are thousands of people who would happily disagree with you.

    **And I would be happy to argue that electronic systems have made cars
    far more reliable, economical and driveable.

    And you'd be wrong. Cars these days are not more reliable. They are, however, more economical and have more features.

    Correction, they are more reliable, more economical, require minimal maintenance, have more features and last way longer than cars of bygone
    eras ever did.

    The only thing nonsensical about this is your lack of experience
    making you completely oblivious of the reality.

    **That's just it: I DO have more than 50 years of car ownership
    experience. I KNOW which parts of my cars have been troublesome. It
    has not been the electronics.

    And *again* you fail to grasp that your personal experience is *not* the average. That you had a trouble free run out of a VL Commodore is a
    prime example of that.

    Thousands of people did not.

    There are *plenty* of cars out there today with electronic gremlins >>>>> Trev, and it's not just the Euros.

    **Such as? And let's be real here: We're not talking about bad
    design. We're talking about electronic failures in otherwise well
    designed cars.

    Two things here. Firstly it's a bit late in the conversation to start
    qualifying your remarks, and secondly "well designed" is incredibly
    subjective :)

    There are a number of reasons why cars fail today, and design is only
    a part of it. The continual search for lower costs is a factor, as is
    inadequate testing along with the increasingly stringent emissions
    standards vehicles are expected to meet today. Many vehicles today
    suffer from issues that are the result of nothing more than
    components not being as durable as they should be. EGR valves are a
    big problem today.

    **Mechanical systems. Thanks for proving my point.

    The failure point on most EGR valves is the electric actuator :)

    -a-aOxygen sensors are a very common failure point.

    **Consumable.

    Oxygen sensors are *not* a consumable. They have no fixed replacement interval. They are changed when they fail, and they fail often.

    Have to disagree, anyone with a clue would replace their O2 sensor at
    100k klms and recoup that cost 5 times over in fuel savings for O2
    sensors give lean readings as they deteriorate with age causing fuel enrichment - those damn LFTs and SFTs!

    I have told the new owner of my previous toy to change the O2 sensor any
    time between now (180k) and 200k klms as I noticed the fuel consumption creeping up.

    There's no service interval for a lot of trans fluids, lifetime fluids remember? But what is a trans lifetime? Manufacturers like to think 100k
    klms max but change that fluid at, say, every 50k and that trans will
    run almost forever - unless it's one of those POS Nissan/Jatco units.


    -a-aFuel injectors
    having remarkably short lives.

    **Electro-mechanical device. Again: It is MECHANICAL systems that
    cause the vast majority of problems. Not the electronics.

    -a-aCam and crank position sensors are famous
    for random failures on many vehicles.

    **Consumables. Hardly electronic devices.

    You have no idea, do you? They *are* electronic devices, and they are
    *not* "consumables" :)

    But it is, more often than not, the mechanical part of them that fails. Typically they get gummed up and jam shut - or open.


    -a-aVariable rate charging systems can
    be erratic.

    These are just some of the everyday normalities. But then you have
    your "freak" issues, like electric power steering malfunctions which
    affected Toyota Corollas some years ago in the US that saw cars
    suddenly pull on full right or left lock at freeway speeds, and drive
    by wire throttle systems that would stick fully open which also
    affected some Toyotas if I recall.

    **Sounds a lot like my old man's Valiant. A common fault on that model
    (AP6, I think).

    -a-aThey're far from isolated incidents, but the point being that
    *none* of these things were problems that affected older cars in the
    main, and they are all side effects of the complexity of modern
    vehicles.

    **Wrong. Valiant AP6. Common fault.

    An AP6 Valiant didn't have a fly by wire throttle that randomly decided
    to deck itself to the floor and stay there until the driver shut the
    engine off.

    -a-a*Thousands* of
    people have not, and I would suggest that if you want a genuine arms
    length opinion on that then talk to your mechanic. I'm sure he'll
    tell you the same thing I am :)

    **If I can catch him with 5 mins to spare, I will. He is busier than a
    one legged man in an arse kicking contest.

    I genuinely suggest you do have a chat to him and get his perspective, because as far as I can tell you have an extreme case of tunnel vision
    where you think everyone else's experiences have been exactly the same
    as yours.

    You'll be surprised to hear what he has to say.

    I very much doubt that!
    --
    Xeno

    Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
    (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Xeno@xenolith@optusnet.com.au to aus.cars on Fri Jan 2 21:58:11 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 2/1/2026 9:46 pm, Noddy wrote:
    On 2/01/2026 8:16 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 30/12/2025 9:55 am, Clocky wrote:


    And that's not just electronics - cost reduction, emission control
    systems, CRD and pushing engines to their limits etc have all
    contributed to a decline in long term reliability.



    **Bullshit. My FC Holden was pretty much buggered at around 100,000
    miles. My first Escort (1.3L) was headed for a major engine rebuild at
    around 100,000km. My second Escort (1.6L pushrod) was a dud from day
    one, but it was headed for the scrapyard at around 100,000km. My first
    2L SOHC Escort was a bit special. It actually lasted quite well,
    whilst proving me with huge enjoyment. Even at 100,000km, it was
    happily revving past 7,000RPM.

    You understand that there is no fixed mileage limit where cars are
    expected to reach the end of their lives, right?

    You understand that *manufacturers* think their products have a limit on
    their lifetime. In fact, in the good old days it was *designed in*.

    Until it was written off by an idiot running a red. My last Escort
    (2L) was a disappointment, but it lasted past 150,000km. I actually
    managed to sell it. Then my VH Commodore came along. It lasted
    175,000km before a complete engine swap (big mistake - Higginbottom
    disaster). That engine lasted another 100,000km, before it died. After
    that, my VL. Never gave me a minute's problems. Sold with 220,000km
    up. Then came my VP Commodore. Bits would fall off it and the paint
    was, well, barely paint, but it was generally quite reliable, until a
    tree branch (weighing an estimated 3 Tonnes) killed it at around
    250,000km. Then I drove my partner's Ford Telstar. We sold it at
    245,000km. It was running fine. I just couldn't get the air-con fixed.

    Far canal! A Telstar :)

    Are you sure you're from this planet originally? I ask because you would
    be the only person on Earth who had a VL Commy and a Telstar that gave
    you no problems.

    Either that or your taking the piss. If your next "trouble free car" was
    a Marina, the cat will be out of the bag :)

    Then my Nissan Stagea. I sold it at 245,000kms. I regularly receive
    texts from the purchaser, who is clocking up big kms in it. He loves
    it. As did I. It was a quite sophisticated car, electronically. Drive
    by wire, reversing camera, GPS, auto folding and tilting mirrors, etc,
    etc.

    There was nothing special about it Trev.

    All I can say is that cars are getting more reliable with each purchase.

    For *you* they seem to be, but then it sounds like you started off in shitsville and could only go up from there.

    My Subaru Levorg has not given me a millisecond's trouble in 7 years.
    Of course, I've been using the same mechanic, or the guy who trained
    under that mechanic for many years. I trust him/them to ensure that my
    cars are reliable.

    Then you are placing an obligation on them that they are incapable of meeting.

    No criticism of them and I'm sure they're fine people, but *no* mechanic
    can ensure a car is reliable, as that is a condition that is beyond
    their control. All they *can* do is ensure that the vehicle is
    maintained correctly, and serviced & adjusted according to the manufacturer's recommendations. Beyond that, the reliability is up to
    the manufacturer, and the price point the vehicle was built to meet.

    In fact, when I purchased the VL, he swapped out the radiator cap on
    day one for a Toyota(?!) unit.

    Unless the cap was faulty there is no advantage to doing so. The cap
    itself wasn't the problem on VL Commodores. It not being the highest
    point in the cooling system was.



    --
    Xeno

    Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
    (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From keithr0@me@bugger.off.com.au to aus.cars on Fri Jan 2 21:52:49 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 2/01/2026 8:18 pm, Xeno wrote:
    On 2/1/2026 7:54 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 30/12/2025 3:19 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 29/12/2025 7:20 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 29/12/2025 6:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    A week ago last Friday, the car fairy paid a visit, and, like all
    good fairies, left a present - a RAV4.

    **Nice. I've short-listed the RAV4 PHEV for a test drive. I hope it
    meets with expectations and equals the equivalent Lexus (which I
    have driven).


    It has only done one journey beyond the local area, a 25Km trip to
    our daughter's place for Xmas day, but the economy looks OK,
    usually in the low 5s, sometimes in the upper 4s. It's quite a
    change from the Mazda 3, apart from the driving position being
    significantly higher, things have moved on in the 10 years since we >>>>> bought the M3.

    Yeah, economy is pretty good for a big car.


    It's the first car that I've owned without a manual handbrake, I
    used to use it any time I had to stop for more than a few second,
    and disliked the electric ones. In this one though, although it is
    electric, there is little reason to to touch it, it comes on
    automatically in park, and there is a hold function for the times
    when I'd have used the manual one for a short stop.

    **Yep. Similar to my 8 year old Suby. Very convenient.


    I haven't found anything yet to really dislike, although I'm not
    sure about the adaptive cruise control, maybe I'll get used to it.

    **You will. It can make driving very relaxing, if you use it right.

    -a-aIt has a
    "Digital" rear view mirror, you can switch it between a
    conventional mirror and a screen connected to a camera on the
    tailgate. The picture from the camera is excellent, and gives a
    wider view than the mirror. The problem is that looking in a
    mirror, objects appear the same distance behind the mirror as they
    are in front so your eyes don't need to re-focus. The camera view,
    however, involves looking a screen centimetres away, so it takes a
    finite time to re- focus when you glance at it.

    **Same as my Suby. I rarely use it, but when the back is fully
    loaded, it works a treat. I love showing it to people who have never
    seen it. Freaks 'em out.


    The 360 view camera, is good when getting into a tight or awkward
    parking spot, it comes on automatically in reverse, but, if you
    want it while going forward, they put the switch in a really
    awkward spot at the bottom of the dash.

    **I don't get that in the Suby. Don't get that daft engine shut-off
    either. I guess Subaru figured that a performance car doesn't need
    that shit.

    I assume you have RCA (Rear Crossing Alert) or similar. Utterly
    brilliant. It should be mandatory on all cars.

    Even the 10yo Mazda 3 had that.

    One thing I don't like about Toyotas, is the implementation of the
    auto braking. That said, maybe they've improved. Subaru does it much
    better. Maybe it's because they use cameras.

    I guess you don't have a spare tyre?

    I wouldn't buy a car that didn't have one. All models of the RAV4
    have them, if you buy the poverty pack, you can pay extra for a full
    size one, not sure why not with the other models.


    **I am hopeful that the RAV4 PHEV carries a spare. No one seems to
    know right now.

    If it is AWD, likely no spare. 2WD should have a space saver. The issue
    is with the location of the rear drive motor and the number of extra batteries.

    Interesting, my RAV is an AWD, and there appears to be a spare right
    there under the boot. I can take a picture of it if you like.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From keithr0@me@bugger.off.com.au to aus.cars on Fri Jan 2 21:55:00 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 2/01/2026 8:17 pm, Xeno wrote:
    On 2/1/2026 9:08 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 2/01/2026 3:53 pm, Xeno wrote:
    On 1/1/2026 9:41 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 1/01/2026 6:32 pm, Xeno wrote:
    On 31/12/2025 5:07 pm, Daryl wrote:
    On 31/12/2025 3:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 31/12/2025 12:31 pm, Xeno wrote:
    On 31/12/2025 10:20 am, Daryl wrote:

    <snippety doo dah>


    Maybe mechanics figure they don't need to go back to Tech,
    they'll just learn from *experience*. Just like Darren did when >>>>>>>> he *experienced* what would happen when he removed ~20 thou of >>>>>>>> piston to valve clearance on Les' engine. Hmm, that was a rather >>>>>>>> expensive lesson, wasn't it? Not as expensive as the above parts >>>>>>>> cannon exercise with the BEV but getting up there!

    Just the usual crap that, for some strange reason, you find
    necessary to include no matter the subject.

    He can't help himself, he is wrong on all counts because it never >>>>>> happened yet he keeping go over the same shit making a fool of
    himself over and over again.
    The people who couldn't find the fault were dealer trained and
    following the manufactures fault finding procedures, the ones who >>>>>> eventually found the fault were independents who worked it out
    without specific training on that model, so much for dealing
    "training".

    You really don't have a clue, do you? It's all about understanding
    electrical concepts hence the ability to conduct effective testing. >>>>> I have stated many times in the past - a lot of mechanics simply do >>>>> not understand *electricity* well enough to do basic testing much
    less the testing of electronic or networking circuitry. Dealer
    training has nothing to do with it. These chaps *understood*
    electrical concepts and were able to translate that to an effective >>>>> testing regime.

    I.E. talent is more important than qualifications. Thanks for agreeing. >>>
    Hardly! Training is what is needed. From training and associated work
    experience comes certification.


    AI Overview
    Working on Battery Electric Vehicles (BEVs) in the U.S. requires
    specialized training, certifications (like ASE EV certifications and
    EVITP for electricians), and adherence to strict safety standards
    (like NFPA 70E) due to high voltages (200-600V), demanding skills in
    electrical systems, advanced software, robotics, and safe chemical
    handling, often involving hands-on apprenticeships and focusing on
    complex problem-solving.
    Key Requirements & Skills:
    Electrical Expertise: High-voltage systems (200-600V), power
    inverters, DC-DC converters, and battery management systems (BMS).
    Safety Certifications: Mandatory training for "Qualified Electrical
    Workers" under NFPA 70E, including Lockout/Tagout procedures and arc
    flash prevention.
    Technical Skills: Proficiency with computer systems, AI, robotics,
    data literacy, and complex diagnostic software.
    Specialized Certifications: ASE's xEV certifications (Electrical
    Safety Awareness, Technician Electrical Safety) are becoming industry
    standards.
    Electrician Training: EVITP certification for installing and
    maintaining charging infrastructure.
    Soft Skills: Complex problem-solving, precision, and strong attention
    to detail are crucial.
    Training & Education Pathways:
    Apprenticeships: "Earn-and-learn" opportunities through employer-
    based programs.
    Formal Training: Programs integrating hands-on robotics, AI, and data
    literacy.
    On-the-Job Training: Essential for practical skills development.

    Want to work on BEVs in the US? You need training and *must have*
    certification else you don't get to first base. In order to work on
    anything above ~60 Volts DC, you are required to have appropriate
    electrical certification and you don't get that just because you're
    *talented*. Darren may have you convinced trade qualifications and
    certifications come in Weeties packets but that's not how the real
    world works hence there is no record anywhere of Darren's claimed
    achievements.


    The concept of isolating a faulty component from the rest of its
    circuitry is not new and not isolated to electrical.

    Rare these days in electronics

    I did mention *discrete circuitry*. If the board or circuit doesn't
    have a lot of discrete components, as is common in electronics these
    days, then the method is fraught.

    It is common in electronics to test discrete components *out of
    circuit* so that the circuitry does not provide any form of *loading*. >>>>
    You obviously know little about fault finding electronics, it's rare
    to have to do that, 90% of the time, the only reason that you take a
    component out of circuit is because you have already determined that
    it is faulty.

    That is all the indies did, they disconnected *both* ends of the HV >>>>> Cable from the associated circuits and that *isolated the fault to
    one of two wires which was then easy to test.

    Test how?

    IIRC, the tech used an *insulation tester*. Specialised areas,
    specialised tools, specialised training. Not surprised you didn't
    notice that point in the video - a whoosh moment for you.

    It is exactly what I would have done. Just need to have relevant
    test equipment and know how to use it. That you need to be told
    this tells me that your training in and understanding of electrical >>>>> concepts is also rather sparse.

    ROTFL, Your knowledge of diagnosing electronics is about on the same
    level as the 14yo who wants to be an auto sparky.

    The most difficult part of diagnosing electronic faults is
    recreating the problem, if it is there constantly, it's gift. Take
    it from somebody who spent 40 years fixing electronics of all kinds.

    The hero speaketh!

    The sound of running feet disappearing into the distance.

    Yeah, yours!

    That is 100dB down on pathetic.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Xeno@xenolith@optusnet.com.au to aus.cars on Fri Jan 2 23:00:53 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 2/1/2026 10:52 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 2/01/2026 8:18 pm, Xeno wrote:
    On 2/1/2026 7:54 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 30/12/2025 3:19 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 29/12/2025 7:20 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 29/12/2025 6:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    A week ago last Friday, the car fairy paid a visit, and, like all >>>>>> good fairies, left a present - a RAV4.

    **Nice. I've short-listed the RAV4 PHEV for a test drive. I hope it >>>>> meets with expectations and equals the equivalent Lexus (which I
    have driven).


    It has only done one journey beyond the local area, a 25Km trip to >>>>>> our daughter's place for Xmas day, but the economy looks OK,
    usually in the low 5s, sometimes in the upper 4s. It's quite a
    change from the Mazda 3, apart from the driving position being
    significantly higher, things have moved on in the 10 years since
    we bought the M3.

    Yeah, economy is pretty good for a big car.


    It's the first car that I've owned without a manual handbrake, I
    used to use it any time I had to stop for more than a few second, >>>>>> and disliked the electric ones. In this one though, although it is >>>>>> electric, there is little reason to to touch it, it comes on
    automatically in park, and there is a hold function for the times >>>>>> when I'd have used the manual one for a short stop.

    **Yep. Similar to my 8 year old Suby. Very convenient.


    I haven't found anything yet to really dislike, although I'm not
    sure about the adaptive cruise control, maybe I'll get used to it.

    **You will. It can make driving very relaxing, if you use it right.

    -a-aIt has a
    "Digital" rear view mirror, you can switch it between a
    conventional mirror and a screen connected to a camera on the
    tailgate. The picture from the camera is excellent, and gives a
    wider view than the mirror. The problem is that looking in a
    mirror, objects appear the same distance behind the mirror as they >>>>>> are in front so your eyes don't need to re-focus. The camera view, >>>>>> however, involves looking a screen centimetres away, so it takes a >>>>>> finite time to re- focus when you glance at it.

    **Same as my Suby. I rarely use it, but when the back is fully
    loaded, it works a treat. I love showing it to people who have
    never seen it. Freaks 'em out.


    The 360 view camera, is good when getting into a tight or awkward >>>>>> parking spot, it comes on automatically in reverse, but, if you
    want it while going forward, they put the switch in a really
    awkward spot at the bottom of the dash.

    **I don't get that in the Suby. Don't get that daft engine shut-off >>>>> either. I guess Subaru figured that a performance car doesn't need
    that shit.

    I assume you have RCA (Rear Crossing Alert) or similar. Utterly
    brilliant. It should be mandatory on all cars.

    Even the 10yo Mazda 3 had that.

    One thing I don't like about Toyotas, is the implementation of the
    auto braking. That said, maybe they've improved. Subaru does it
    much better. Maybe it's because they use cameras.

    I guess you don't have a spare tyre?

    I wouldn't buy a car that didn't have one. All models of the RAV4
    have them, if you buy the poverty pack, you can pay extra for a full
    size one, not sure why not with the other models.


    **I am hopeful that the RAV4 PHEV carries a spare. No one seems to
    know right now.

    If it is AWD, likely no spare. 2WD should have a space saver. The
    issue is with the location of the rear drive motor and the number of
    extra batteries.

    Interesting, my RAV is an AWD, and there appears to be a spare right
    there under the boot. I can take a picture of it if you like.

    I said *likely* because on others, say, the Yaris Cross for instance,
    the rear motor takes up too much space. When shopping for a new set of
    wheels, I was looking at the Yaris Cross and the game changer for me was
    no spare at all on the AWD.
    --
    Xeno

    Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
    (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Xeno@xenolith@optusnet.com.au to aus.cars on Fri Jan 2 23:01:40 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 2/1/2026 10:55 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 2/01/2026 8:17 pm, Xeno wrote:
    On 2/1/2026 9:08 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 2/01/2026 3:53 pm, Xeno wrote:
    On 1/1/2026 9:41 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 1/01/2026 6:32 pm, Xeno wrote:
    On 31/12/2025 5:07 pm, Daryl wrote:
    On 31/12/2025 3:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 31/12/2025 12:31 pm, Xeno wrote:
    On 31/12/2025 10:20 am, Daryl wrote:

    <snippety doo dah>


    Maybe mechanics figure they don't need to go back to Tech,
    they'll just learn from *experience*. Just like Darren did when >>>>>>>>> he *experienced* what would happen when he removed ~20 thou of >>>>>>>>> piston to valve clearance on Les' engine. Hmm, that was a
    rather expensive lesson, wasn't it? Not as expensive as the >>>>>>>>> above parts cannon exercise with the BEV but getting up there! >>>>>>>>
    Just the usual crap that, for some strange reason, you find
    necessary to include no matter the subject.

    He can't help himself, he is wrong on all counts because it never >>>>>>> happened yet he keeping go over the same shit making a fool of
    himself over and over again.
    The people who couldn't find the fault were dealer trained and
    following the manufactures fault finding procedures, the ones who >>>>>>> eventually found the fault were independents who worked it out
    without specific training on that model, so much for dealing
    "training".

    You really don't have a clue, do you? It's all about understanding >>>>>> electrical concepts hence the ability to conduct effective
    testing. I have stated many times in the past - a lot of mechanics >>>>>> simply do not understand *electricity* well enough to do basic
    testing much less the testing of electronic or networking
    circuitry. Dealer training has nothing to do with it. These chaps >>>>>> *understood* electrical concepts and were able to translate that
    to an effective testing regime.

    I.E. talent is more important than qualifications. Thanks for
    agreeing.

    Hardly! Training is what is needed. From training and associated
    work experience comes certification.


    AI Overview
    Working on Battery Electric Vehicles (BEVs) in the U.S. requires
    specialized training, certifications (like ASE EV certifications and
    EVITP for electricians), and adherence to strict safety standards
    (like NFPA 70E) due to high voltages (200-600V), demanding skills in
    electrical systems, advanced software, robotics, and safe chemical
    handling, often involving hands-on apprenticeships and focusing on
    complex problem-solving.
    Key Requirements & Skills:
    Electrical Expertise: High-voltage systems (200-600V), power
    inverters, DC-DC converters, and battery management systems (BMS).
    Safety Certifications: Mandatory training for "Qualified Electrical
    Workers" under NFPA 70E, including Lockout/Tagout procedures and arc
    flash prevention.
    Technical Skills: Proficiency with computer systems, AI, robotics,
    data literacy, and complex diagnostic software.
    Specialized Certifications: ASE's xEV certifications (Electrical
    Safety Awareness, Technician Electrical Safety) are becoming
    industry standards.
    Electrician Training: EVITP certification for installing and
    maintaining charging infrastructure.
    Soft Skills: Complex problem-solving, precision, and strong
    attention to detail are crucial.
    Training & Education Pathways:
    Apprenticeships: "Earn-and-learn" opportunities through employer-
    based programs.
    Formal Training: Programs integrating hands-on robotics, AI, and
    data literacy.
    On-the-Job Training: Essential for practical skills development.

    Want to work on BEVs in the US? You need training and *must have*
    certification else you don't get to first base. In order to work on
    anything above ~60 Volts DC, you are required to have appropriate
    electrical certification and you don't get that just because you're
    *talented*. Darren may have you convinced trade qualifications and
    certifications come in Weeties packets but that's not how the real
    world works hence there is no record anywhere of Darren's claimed
    achievements.


    The concept of isolating a faulty component from the rest of its
    circuitry is not new and not isolated to electrical.

    Rare these days in electronics

    I did mention *discrete circuitry*. If the board or circuit doesn't
    have a lot of discrete components, as is common in electronics these
    days, then the method is fraught.

    It is common in electronics to test discrete components *out of
    circuit* so that the circuitry does not provide any form of
    *loading*.

    You obviously know little about fault finding electronics, it's
    rare to have to do that, 90% of the time, the only reason that you
    take a component out of circuit is because you have already
    determined that it is faulty.

    That is all the indies did, they disconnected *both* ends of the
    HV Cable from the associated circuits and that *isolated the fault >>>>>> to one of two wires which was then easy to test.

    Test how?

    IIRC, the tech used an *insulation tester*. Specialised areas,
    specialised tools, specialised training. Not surprised you didn't
    notice that point in the video - a whoosh moment for you.

    It is exactly what I would have done. Just need to have relevant
    test equipment and know how to use it. That you need to be told
    this tells me that your training in and understanding of
    electrical concepts is also rather sparse.

    ROTFL, Your knowledge of diagnosing electronics is about on the
    same level as the 14yo who wants to be an auto sparky.

    The most difficult part of diagnosing electronic faults is
    recreating the problem, if it is there constantly, it's gift. Take
    it from somebody who spent 40 years fixing electronics of all kinds.

    The hero speaketh!

    The sound of running feet disappearing into the distance.

    Yeah, yours!

    That is 100dB down on pathetic.

    But accurate when describing you.
    --
    Xeno

    Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
    (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From keithr0@me@bugger.off.com.au to aus.cars on Fri Jan 2 22:26:57 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 2/01/2026 10:01 pm, Xeno wrote:
    On 2/1/2026 10:55 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 2/01/2026 8:17 pm, Xeno wrote:
    On 2/1/2026 9:08 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 2/01/2026 3:53 pm, Xeno wrote:
    On 1/1/2026 9:41 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 1/01/2026 6:32 pm, Xeno wrote:
    On 31/12/2025 5:07 pm, Daryl wrote:
    On 31/12/2025 3:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 31/12/2025 12:31 pm, Xeno wrote:
    On 31/12/2025 10:20 am, Daryl wrote:

    <snippety doo dah>


    Maybe mechanics figure they don't need to go back to Tech, >>>>>>>>>> they'll just learn from *experience*. Just like Darren did >>>>>>>>>> when he *experienced* what would happen when he removed ~20 >>>>>>>>>> thou of piston to valve clearance on Les' engine. Hmm, that >>>>>>>>>> was a rather expensive lesson, wasn't it? Not as expensive as >>>>>>>>>> the above parts cannon exercise with the BEV but getting up >>>>>>>>>> there!

    Just the usual crap that, for some strange reason, you find >>>>>>>>> necessary to include no matter the subject.

    He can't help himself, he is wrong on all counts because it
    never happened yet he keeping go over the same shit making a
    fool of himself over and over again.
    The people who couldn't find the fault were dealer trained and >>>>>>>> following the manufactures fault finding procedures, the ones >>>>>>>> who eventually found the fault were independents who worked it >>>>>>>> out without specific training on that model, so much for dealing >>>>>>>> "training".

    You really don't have a clue, do you? It's all about
    understanding electrical concepts hence the ability to conduct
    effective testing. I have stated many times in the past - a lot >>>>>>> of mechanics simply do not understand *electricity* well enough >>>>>>> to do basic testing much less the testing of electronic or
    networking circuitry. Dealer training has nothing to do with it. >>>>>>> These chaps *understood* electrical concepts and were able to
    translate that to an effective testing regime.

    I.E. talent is more important than qualifications. Thanks for
    agreeing.

    Hardly! Training is what is needed. From training and associated
    work experience comes certification.


    AI Overview
    Working on Battery Electric Vehicles (BEVs) in the U.S. requires
    specialized training, certifications (like ASE EV certifications
    and EVITP for electricians), and adherence to strict safety
    standards (like NFPA 70E) due to high voltages (200-600V),
    demanding skills in electrical systems, advanced software,
    robotics, and safe chemical handling, often involving hands-on
    apprenticeships and focusing on complex problem-solving.
    Key Requirements & Skills:
    Electrical Expertise: High-voltage systems (200-600V), power
    inverters, DC-DC converters, and battery management systems (BMS).
    Safety Certifications: Mandatory training for "Qualified Electrical >>>>> Workers" under NFPA 70E, including Lockout/Tagout procedures and
    arc flash prevention.
    Technical Skills: Proficiency with computer systems, AI, robotics,
    data literacy, and complex diagnostic software.
    Specialized Certifications: ASE's xEV certifications (Electrical
    Safety Awareness, Technician Electrical Safety) are becoming
    industry standards.
    Electrician Training: EVITP certification for installing and
    maintaining charging infrastructure.
    Soft Skills: Complex problem-solving, precision, and strong
    attention to detail are crucial.
    Training & Education Pathways:
    Apprenticeships: "Earn-and-learn" opportunities through employer-
    based programs.
    Formal Training: Programs integrating hands-on robotics, AI, and
    data literacy.
    On-the-Job Training: Essential for practical skills development.

    Want to work on BEVs in the US? You need training and *must have*
    certification else you don't get to first base. In order to work on >>>>> anything above ~60 Volts DC, you are required to have appropriate
    electrical certification and you don't get that just because you're >>>>> *talented*. Darren may have you convinced trade qualifications and
    certifications come in Weeties packets but that's not how the real
    world works hence there is no record anywhere of Darren's claimed
    achievements.


    The concept of isolating a faulty component from the rest of its >>>>>>> circuitry is not new and not isolated to electrical.

    Rare these days in electronics

    I did mention *discrete circuitry*. If the board or circuit doesn't >>>>> have a lot of discrete components, as is common in electronics
    these days, then the method is fraught.

    It is common in electronics to test discrete components *out of >>>>>>> circuit* so that the circuitry does not provide any form of
    *loading*.

    You obviously know little about fault finding electronics, it's
    rare to have to do that, 90% of the time, the only reason that you >>>>>> take a component out of circuit is because you have already
    determined that it is faulty.

    That is all the indies did, they disconnected *both* ends of the >>>>>>> HV Cable from the associated circuits and that *isolated the
    fault to one of two wires which was then easy to test.

    Test how?

    IIRC, the tech used an *insulation tester*. Specialised areas,
    specialised tools, specialised training. Not surprised you didn't
    notice that point in the video - a whoosh moment for you.

    It is exactly what I would have done. Just need to have relevant >>>>>>> test equipment and know how to use it. That you need to be told >>>>>>> this tells me that your training in and understanding of
    electrical concepts is also rather sparse.

    ROTFL, Your knowledge of diagnosing electronics is about on the
    same level as the 14yo who wants to be an auto sparky.

    The most difficult part of diagnosing electronic faults is
    recreating the problem, if it is there constantly, it's gift. Take >>>>>> it from somebody who spent 40 years fixing electronics of all kinds. >>>>>
    The hero speaketh!

    The sound of running feet disappearing into the distance.

    Yeah, yours!

    That is 100dB down on pathetic.

    But accurate when describing you.

    Your arrogance is beyond belief,
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From keithr0@me@bugger.off.com.au to aus.cars on Fri Jan 2 22:29:04 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 2/01/2026 10:00 pm, Xeno wrote:
    On 2/1/2026 10:52 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 2/01/2026 8:18 pm, Xeno wrote:
    On 2/1/2026 7:54 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 30/12/2025 3:19 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 29/12/2025 7:20 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 29/12/2025 6:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    A week ago last Friday, the car fairy paid a visit, and, like all >>>>>>> good fairies, left a present - a RAV4.

    **Nice. I've short-listed the RAV4 PHEV for a test drive. I hope
    it meets with expectations and equals the equivalent Lexus (which >>>>>> I have driven).


    It has only done one journey beyond the local area, a 25Km trip >>>>>>> to our daughter's place for Xmas day, but the economy looks OK, >>>>>>> usually in the low 5s, sometimes in the upper 4s. It's quite a
    change from the Mazda 3, apart from the driving position being
    significantly higher, things have moved on in the 10 years since >>>>>>> we bought the M3.

    Yeah, economy is pretty good for a big car.


    It's the first car that I've owned without a manual handbrake, I >>>>>>> used to use it any time I had to stop for more than a few second, >>>>>>> and disliked the electric ones. In this one though, although it >>>>>>> is electric, there is little reason to to touch it, it comes on >>>>>>> automatically in park, and there is a hold function for the times >>>>>>> when I'd have used the manual one for a short stop.

    **Yep. Similar to my 8 year old Suby. Very convenient.


    I haven't found anything yet to really dislike, although I'm not >>>>>>> sure about the adaptive cruise control, maybe I'll get used to it. >>>>>>
    **You will. It can make driving very relaxing, if you use it right. >>>>>>
    -a-aIt has a
    "Digital" rear view mirror, you can switch it between a
    conventional mirror and a screen connected to a camera on the
    tailgate. The picture from the camera is excellent, and gives a >>>>>>> wider view than the mirror. The problem is that looking in a
    mirror, objects appear the same distance behind the mirror as
    they are in front so your eyes don't need to re-focus. The camera >>>>>>> view, however, involves looking a screen centimetres away, so it >>>>>>> takes a finite time to re- focus when you glance at it.

    **Same as my Suby. I rarely use it, but when the back is fully
    loaded, it works a treat. I love showing it to people who have
    never seen it. Freaks 'em out.


    The 360 view camera, is good when getting into a tight or awkward >>>>>>> parking spot, it comes on automatically in reverse, but, if you >>>>>>> want it while going forward, they put the switch in a really
    awkward spot at the bottom of the dash.

    **I don't get that in the Suby. Don't get that daft engine shut-
    off either. I guess Subaru figured that a performance car doesn't >>>>>> need that shit.

    I assume you have RCA (Rear Crossing Alert) or similar. Utterly
    brilliant. It should be mandatory on all cars.

    Even the 10yo Mazda 3 had that.

    One thing I don't like about Toyotas, is the implementation of the >>>>>> auto braking. That said, maybe they've improved. Subaru does it
    much better. Maybe it's because they use cameras.

    I guess you don't have a spare tyre?

    I wouldn't buy a car that didn't have one. All models of the RAV4
    have them, if you buy the poverty pack, you can pay extra for a
    full size one, not sure why not with the other models.


    **I am hopeful that the RAV4 PHEV carries a spare. No one seems to
    know right now.

    If it is AWD, likely no spare. 2WD should have a space saver. The
    issue is with the location of the rear drive motor and the number of
    extra batteries.

    Interesting, my RAV is an AWD, and there appears to be a spare right
    there under the boot. I can take a picture of it if you like.

    I said *likely* because on others, say, the Yaris Cross for instance,
    the rear motor takes up too much space. When shopping for a new set of wheels, I was looking at the Yaris Cross and the game changer for me was
    no spare at all on the AWD.

    The Corolla Cross is the same, one reason that I didn't buy one. You
    were however too lazy to look it up for the RAV before posting that twaddle. --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Xeno@xenolith@optusnet.com.au to aus.cars on Fri Jan 2 23:51:48 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 2/1/2026 11:29 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 2/01/2026 10:00 pm, Xeno wrote:
    On 2/1/2026 10:52 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 2/01/2026 8:18 pm, Xeno wrote:
    On 2/1/2026 7:54 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 30/12/2025 3:19 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 29/12/2025 7:20 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 29/12/2025 6:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    A week ago last Friday, the car fairy paid a visit, and, like >>>>>>>> all good fairies, left a present - a RAV4.

    **Nice. I've short-listed the RAV4 PHEV for a test drive. I hope >>>>>>> it meets with expectations and equals the equivalent Lexus (which >>>>>>> I have driven).


    It has only done one journey beyond the local area, a 25Km trip >>>>>>>> to our daughter's place for Xmas day, but the economy looks OK, >>>>>>>> usually in the low 5s, sometimes in the upper 4s. It's quite a >>>>>>>> change from the Mazda 3, apart from the driving position being >>>>>>>> significantly higher, things have moved on in the 10 years since >>>>>>>> we bought the M3.

    Yeah, economy is pretty good for a big car.


    It's the first car that I've owned without a manual handbrake, I >>>>>>>> used to use it any time I had to stop for more than a few
    second, and disliked the electric ones. In this one though,
    although it is electric, there is little reason to to touch it, >>>>>>>> it comes on automatically in park, and there is a hold function >>>>>>>> for the times when I'd have used the manual one for a short stop. >>>>>>>
    **Yep. Similar to my 8 year old Suby. Very convenient.


    I haven't found anything yet to really dislike, although I'm not >>>>>>>> sure about the adaptive cruise control, maybe I'll get used to it. >>>>>>>
    **You will. It can make driving very relaxing, if you use it right. >>>>>>>
    -a-aIt has a
    "Digital" rear view mirror, you can switch it between a
    conventional mirror and a screen connected to a camera on the >>>>>>>> tailgate. The picture from the camera is excellent, and gives a >>>>>>>> wider view than the mirror. The problem is that looking in a
    mirror, objects appear the same distance behind the mirror as >>>>>>>> they are in front so your eyes don't need to re-focus. The
    camera view, however, involves looking a screen centimetres
    away, so it takes a finite time to re- focus when you glance at it. >>>>>>>
    **Same as my Suby. I rarely use it, but when the back is fully
    loaded, it works a treat. I love showing it to people who have
    never seen it. Freaks 'em out.


    The 360 view camera, is good when getting into a tight or
    awkward parking spot, it comes on automatically in reverse, but, >>>>>>>> if you want it while going forward, they put the switch in a
    really awkward spot at the bottom of the dash.

    **I don't get that in the Suby. Don't get that daft engine shut- >>>>>>> off either. I guess Subaru figured that a performance car doesn't >>>>>>> need that shit.

    I assume you have RCA (Rear Crossing Alert) or similar. Utterly >>>>>>> brilliant. It should be mandatory on all cars.

    Even the 10yo Mazda 3 had that.

    One thing I don't like about Toyotas, is the implementation of
    the auto braking. That said, maybe they've improved. Subaru does >>>>>>> it much better. Maybe it's because they use cameras.

    I guess you don't have a spare tyre?

    I wouldn't buy a car that didn't have one. All models of the RAV4 >>>>>> have them, if you buy the poverty pack, you can pay extra for a
    full size one, not sure why not with the other models.


    **I am hopeful that the RAV4 PHEV carries a spare. No one seems to
    know right now.

    If it is AWD, likely no spare. 2WD should have a space saver. The
    issue is with the location of the rear drive motor and the number of
    extra batteries.

    Interesting, my RAV is an AWD, and there appears to be a spare right
    there under the boot. I can take a picture of it if you like.

    I said *likely* because on others, say, the Yaris Cross for instance,
    the rear motor takes up too much space. When shopping for a new set of
    wheels, I was looking at the Yaris Cross and the game changer for me
    was no spare at all on the AWD.

    The Corolla Cross is the same, one reason that I didn't buy one. You
    were however too lazy to look it up for the RAV before posting that
    twaddle.

    That's why I didn't buy either of those and used the term "likely".
    --
    Xeno

    Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
    (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Noddy@me@home.com to aus.cars on Sat Jan 3 00:03:33 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 2/01/2026 10:52 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 2/01/2026 8:18 pm, Xeno wrote:

    If it is AWD, likely no spare. 2WD should have a space saver. The
    issue is with the location of the rear drive motor and the number of
    extra batteries.

    Interesting, my RAV is an AWD, and there appears to be a spare right
    there under the boot. I can take a picture of it if you like.

    Lol :)

    Reality shooting holes in his bullshit yet *again*. Jeez, you'd reckon
    mental case would have learnt his lesson and had enough by now.... :)
    --
    --
    --
    Regards,
    Noddy.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Daryl@dwalford@westpine.com.au to aus.cars on Sat Jan 3 08:05:57 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 2/1/2026 8:16 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 30/12/2025 9:55 am, Clocky wrote:
    On 29/12/2025 5:49 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 29/12/2025 8:19 pm, Daryl wrote:
    On 29/12/2025 6:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    A week ago last Friday, the car fairy paid a visit, and, like all
    good fairies, left a present - a RAV4.

    It has only done one journey beyond the local area, a 25Km trip to
    our daughter's place for Xmas day, but the economy looks OK,
    usually in the low 5s, sometimes in the upper 4s. It's quite a
    change from the Mazda 3, apart from the driving position being
    significantly higher, things have moved on in the 10 years since we >>>>> bought the M3.

    Not necessarily for the better IMO, too much electronics to go
    wrong, most of it is pretty reliable but can be a nightmare when it
    isn't.

    **Bullshit. Electronics, in general, have improved car reliability
    dramatically.

    Absolute garbage. Most definitely not.

    -a-aI cite the example of EFI as one that has VASTLY improved
    almost every aspect of engine flexibility,

    Yeah that was many decades ago now and did vastly improve reliability
    but as time has gone on and countless modules and systems have been
    introduced for superfluous bullshit reliability has declined.

    And that's not just electronics - cost reduction, emission control
    systems, CRD and pushing engines to their limits etc have all
    contributed to a decline in long term reliability.



    **Bullshit. My FC Holden was pretty much buggered at around 100,000
    miles.

    Pretty much standard for those engines in those days.

    My first Escort (1.3L) was headed for a major engine rebuild at
    around 100,000km.

    That is unusual, Kent engines are generally robust.

    My second Escort (1.6L pushrod) was a dud from day
    one, but it was headed for the scrapyard at around 100,000km.

    Also unusual.

    My first
    2L SOHC Escort was a bit special. It actually lasted quite well, whilst proving me with huge enjoyment. Even at 100,000km, it was happily
    revving past 7,000RPM. Until it was written off by an idiot running a
    red.

    Also unusual because Pinto engines were just okay.

    My last Escort (2L) was a disappointment, but it lasted past
    150,000km. I actually managed to sell it. Then my VH Commodore came
    along. It lasted 175,000km before a complete engine swap (big mistake - Higginbottom disaster). That engine lasted another 100,000km, before it died.

    Typical Holden of the day, could have been worse, you could have bought
    a VK piece of shit.

    After that, my VL. Never gave me a minute's problems. Sold with
    220,000km up. Then came my VP Commodore. Bits would fall off it and the paint was, well, barely paint, but it was generally quite reliable,
    until a tree branch (weighing an estimated 3 Tonnes) killed it at around 250,000km. Then I drove my partner's Ford Telstar. We sold it at
    245,000km. It was running fine. I just couldn't get the air-con fixed.
    Then my Nissan Stagea. I sold it at 245,000kms. I regularly receive
    texts from the purchaser, who is clocking up big kms in it. He loves it.
    As did I. It was a quite sophisticated car, electronically. Drive by
    wire, reversing camera, GPS, auto folding and tilting mirrors, etc, etc.

    All I can say is that cars are getting more reliable with each purchase.
    My Subaru Levorg has not given me a millisecond's trouble in 7 years. Of course, I've been using the same mechanic, or the guy who trained under
    that mechanic for many years. I trust him/them to ensure that my cars
    are reliable. In fact, when I purchased the VL, he swapped out the
    radiator cap on day one for a Toyota(?!) unit.

    LOL, you think that that is remarkable some how:-)
    --
    Daryl
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From alvey@Hans.Andnees@gmail.com to aus.cars on Sat Jan 3 07:56:55 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    Noddy wrote:
    On 2/01/2026 10:52 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 2/01/2026 8:18 pm, Xeno wrote:

    If it is AWD, likely no spare. 2WD should have a space saver. The
    issue is with the location of the rear drive motor and the number of
    extra batteries.

    Interesting, my RAV is an AWD, and there appears to be a spare right
    there under the boot. I can take a picture of it if you like.

    Lol :)

    Reality shooting holes in his bullshit yet *again*. Jeez, you'd reckon mental case would have learnt his lesson and had enough by now.... :)

    Another comprehension Fail there Buffo.

    "likely" is < 100%.

    hth
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Xeno@xenolith@optusnet.com.au to aus.cars on Sat Jan 3 10:45:51 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 3/1/2026 12:03 am, Noddy wrote:
    On 2/01/2026 10:52 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 2/01/2026 8:18 pm, Xeno wrote:

    If it is AWD, likely no spare. 2WD should have a space saver. The
    issue is with the location of the rear drive motor and the number of
    extra batteries.

    Interesting, my RAV is an AWD, and there appears to be a spare right
    there under the boot. I can take a picture of it if you like.

    Lol :)

    Reality shooting holes in his bullshit yet *again*. Jeez, you'd reckon mental case would have learnt his lesson and had enough by now.... :)


    Your English comprehension is way more flawed than Keiths.

    But we knew that because you couldn't even pass year 9.
    --
    Xeno

    Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
    (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Clocky@notgonna@happen.com to aus.cars on Sat Jan 3 09:38:21 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 2/01/2026 6:46 pm, Noddy wrote:
    On 2/01/2026 4:59 pm, Clocky wrote:

    However, some people have a natural ability to think outside of the
    square or have a greater interest in a particular field that is
    advantageous -

    Yeah, that's right. Like people who, when an intermittent fault with an error code that cannot be retrieved can't get the fault to occur when they're looking at the vehicle do a bit of lateral thinking and swap
    parts around to see if the fault follows the swap the next time it
    occurs which will positively identify the cause.


    LOL, lateral thinking back to the 70's and all you know - part swapping
    in hope and ignorance.

    No goose, you failed to realise that an intermittent fault of that
    nature can easily be diagnosed by a tool that you had in your arsenal -
    and you literally said that you didn't even plug it in.

    Noddy on April 15 2023 wrote;

    "I never bothered plugging my scan tool in in the first place"

    So you had the tool at hand to diagnose it quickly and effectively but
    because you didn't know how to do that *and* because you're too lazy and stupid to learn you reached for all you know - shotgunning in hope.

    The best part is that you have absolutely no idea *why* you look so
    stupid and incompetent having posted that :-)

    It's the equivalent of you having a box of metric spanners and reaching
    for a gas-axe to undo an metric bolt on your Jeep because the Imperial
    spanner you tried didn't fit.


    that is true and that can be helpful.

    It is indeed. I know a guy like that. He made a good living solving the problems a lot of other people could not :)


    Thanks, I did make good money from it and also from picking up after
    people like you. Nice of you to acknowledge it.


    My understanding of electronics and electrics as well as experience
    has certainly benefited me over the years, certainly financially.

    What was it? House paid off in six years repairing ECU's?


    Not my claim but it is yet reveal as to why you're the absolute worst
    person to ever take a car to.

    You should run that by Trevor as an example of just how unreliable automotive electronics can be :)


    I spoke the truth, you can't.
    --
    In thread "May need to buy petrol soon" Sept 23 2021 11:15:59am
    Keithr0 wrote: "He made the assertion either he proves it or he is a
    proven liar."

    On Sept 23 2021 3:16:29pm Keithr0 wrote:
    "He asserts that the claim is true, so, if it is unproven, he is lying."
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Clocky@notgonna@happen.com to aus.cars on Sat Jan 3 09:39:07 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 2/01/2026 6:08 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 2/01/2026 3:53 pm, Xeno wrote:
    On 1/1/2026 9:41 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 1/01/2026 6:32 pm, Xeno wrote:
    On 31/12/2025 5:07 pm, Daryl wrote:
    On 31/12/2025 3:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 31/12/2025 12:31 pm, Xeno wrote:
    On 31/12/2025 10:20 am, Daryl wrote:

    <snippety doo dah>


    Maybe mechanics figure they don't need to go back to Tech,
    they'll just learn from *experience*. Just like Darren did when >>>>>>> he *experienced* what would happen when he removed ~20 thou of
    piston to valve clearance on Les' engine. Hmm, that was a rather >>>>>>> expensive lesson, wasn't it? Not as expensive as the above parts >>>>>>> cannon exercise with the BEV but getting up there!

    Just the usual crap that, for some strange reason, you find
    necessary to include no matter the subject.

    He can't help himself, he is wrong on all counts because it never
    happened yet he keeping go over the same shit making a fool of
    himself over and over again.
    The people who couldn't find the fault were dealer trained and
    following the manufactures fault finding procedures, the ones who
    eventually found the fault were independents who worked it out
    without specific training on that model, so much for dealing
    "training".

    You really don't have a clue, do you? It's all about understanding
    electrical concepts hence the ability to conduct effective testing.
    I have stated many times in the past - a lot of mechanics simply do
    not understand *electricity* well enough to do basic testing much
    less the testing of electronic or networking circuitry. Dealer
    training has nothing to do with it. These chaps *understood*
    electrical concepts and were able to translate that to an effective
    testing regime.

    I.E. talent is more important than qualifications. Thanks for agreeing.

    Hardly! Training is what is needed. From training and associated work
    experience comes certification.


    AI Overview
    Working on Battery Electric Vehicles (BEVs) in the U.S. requires
    specialized training, certifications (like ASE EV certifications and
    EVITP for electricians), and adherence to strict safety standards
    (like NFPA 70E) due to high voltages (200-600V), demanding skills in
    electrical systems, advanced software, robotics, and safe chemical
    handling, often involving hands-on apprenticeships and focusing on
    complex problem-solving.
    Key Requirements & Skills:
    Electrical Expertise: High-voltage systems (200-600V), power
    inverters, DC-DC converters, and battery management systems (BMS).
    Safety Certifications: Mandatory training for "Qualified Electrical
    Workers" under NFPA 70E, including Lockout/Tagout procedures and arc
    flash prevention.
    Technical Skills: Proficiency with computer systems, AI, robotics,
    data literacy, and complex diagnostic software.
    Specialized Certifications: ASE's xEV certifications (Electrical
    Safety Awareness, Technician Electrical Safety) are becoming industry
    standards.
    Electrician Training: EVITP certification for installing and
    maintaining charging infrastructure.
    Soft Skills: Complex problem-solving, precision, and strong attention
    to detail are crucial.
    Training & Education Pathways:
    Apprenticeships: "Earn-and-learn" opportunities through employer-based
    programs.
    Formal Training: Programs integrating hands-on robotics, AI, and data
    literacy.
    On-the-Job Training: Essential for practical skills development.

    Want to work on BEVs in the US? You need training and *must have*
    certification else you don't get to first base. In order to work on
    anything above ~60 Volts DC, you are required to have appropriate
    electrical certification and you don't get that just because you're
    *talented*. Darren may have you convinced trade qualifications and
    certifications come in Weeties packets but that's not how the real
    world works hence there is no record anywhere of Darren's claimed
    achievements.


    The concept of isolating a faulty component from the rest of its
    circuitry is not new and not isolated to electrical.

    Rare these days in electronics

    I did mention *discrete circuitry*. If the board or circuit doesn't
    have a lot of discrete components, as is common in electronics these
    days, then the method is fraught.

    It is common in electronics to test discrete components *out of
    circuit* so that the circuitry does not provide any form of *loading*. >>>
    You obviously know little about fault finding electronics, it's rare
    to have to do that, 90% of the time, the only reason that you take a
    component out of circuit is because you have already determined that
    it is faulty.

    That is all the indies did, they disconnected *both* ends of the HV
    Cable from the associated circuits and that *isolated the fault to
    one of two wires which was then easy to test.

    Test how?

    IIRC, the tech used an *insulation tester*. Specialised areas,
    specialised tools, specialised training. Not surprised you didn't
    notice that point in the video - a whoosh moment for you.

    It is exactly what I would have done. Just need to have relevant
    test equipment and know how to use it. That you need to be told this
    tells me that your training in and understanding of electrical
    concepts is also rather sparse.

    ROTFL, Your knowledge of diagnosing electronics is about on the same
    level as the 14yo who wants to be an auto sparky.

    The most difficult part of diagnosing electronic faults is recreating
    the problem, if it is there constantly, it's gift. Take it from
    somebody who spent 40 years fixing electronics of all kinds.

    The hero speaketh!

    The sound of running feet disappearing into the distance.


    Come back keith!
    --
    In thread "May need to buy petrol soon" Sept 23 2021 11:15:59am
    Keithr0 wrote: "He made the assertion either he proves it or he is a
    proven liar."

    On Sept 23 2021 3:16:29pm Keithr0 wrote:
    "He asserts that the claim is true, so, if it is unproven, he is lying."
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Clocky@notgonna@happen.com to aus.cars on Sat Jan 3 09:54:57 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 2/01/2026 9:03 pm, Noddy wrote:
    On 2/01/2026 10:52 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 2/01/2026 8:18 pm, Xeno wrote:

    If it is AWD, likely no spare. 2WD should have a space saver. The
    issue is with the location of the rear drive motor and the number of
    extra batteries.

    Interesting, my RAV is an AWD, and there appears to be a spare right
    there under the boot. I can take a picture of it if you like.

    Lol :)

    Reality shooting holes in his bullshit yet *again*. Jeez, you'd reckon mental case would have learnt his lesson and had enough by now.... :)



    Yet another basic English comprehension fail. Let me educate you.

    "If it is AWD, likely no spare."

    Key word *likely*.

    Yet you incorrectly interpreted that as the absolute statement;

    "If it is AWD, no spare."

    Do you understand?
    --
    In thread "May need to buy petrol soon" Sept 23 2021 11:15:59am
    Keithr0 wrote: "He made the assertion either he proves it or he is a
    proven liar."

    On Sept 23 2021 3:16:29pm Keithr0 wrote:
    "He asserts that the claim is true, so, if it is unproven, he is lying."
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From keithr0@me@bugger.off.com.au to aus.cars on Sat Jan 3 15:21:56 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 3/01/2026 9:45 am, Xeno wrote:
    On 3/1/2026 12:03 am, Noddy wrote:
    On 2/01/2026 10:52 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 2/01/2026 8:18 pm, Xeno wrote:

    If it is AWD, likely no spare. 2WD should have a space saver. The
    issue is with the location of the rear drive motor and the number of
    extra batteries.

    Interesting, my RAV is an AWD, and there appears to be a spare right
    there under the boot. I can take a picture of it if you like.

    Lol :)

    Reality shooting holes in his bullshit yet *again*. Jeez, you'd reckon
    mental case would have learnt his lesson and had enough by now.... :)


    Your English comprehension is way more flawed than Keiths.

    Nothing wrong with my comprehension, just with your "Advice". If you had wanted to post something useful, you could have spent 30 seconds to look
    it up on the Toyota website, however you were too lazy and made up some misleading bullshit instead. Congratulations, well up there with your best.

    But we knew that because you couldn't even pass year 9.


    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From keithr0@me@bugger.off.com.au to aus.cars on Sat Jan 3 15:25:20 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 3/01/2026 11:38 am, Clocky wrote:
    On 2/01/2026 6:46 pm, Noddy wrote:
    On 2/01/2026 4:59 pm, Clocky wrote:

    However, some people have a natural ability to think outside of the
    square or have a greater interest in a particular field that is
    advantageous -

    Yeah, that's right. Like people who, when an intermittent fault with
    an error code that cannot be retrieved can't get the fault to occur
    when they're looking at the vehicle do a bit of lateral thinking and
    swap parts around to see if the fault follows the swap the next time
    it occurs which will positively identify the cause.


    LOL, lateral thinking back to the 70's and all you know - part swapping
    in hope and ignorance.

    No goose, you failed to realise that an intermittent fault of that
    nature can easily be diagnosed by a tool that you had in your arsenal -
    and you literally said that you didn't even plug it in.

    Noddy on April 15 2023 wrote;

    "I never bothered plugging my scan tool in in the first place"

    So you had the tool at hand to diagnose it quickly and effectively but because you didn't know how to do that *and* because you're too lazy and stupid to learn you reached for all you know - shotgunning in hope.

    The best part is that you have absolutely no idea *why* you look so
    stupid and incompetent having posted that :-)

    It's the equivalent of you having a box of metric spanners and reaching
    for a gas-axe to undo an metric bolt on your Jeep because the Imperial spanner you tried didn't fit.

    You never did explain how long term fuel trim was going to diagnose a
    single misfire several weeks previous.

    that is true and that can be helpful.

    It is indeed. I know a guy like that. He made a good living solving
    the problems a lot of other people could not :)


    Thanks, I did make good money from it and also from picking up after
    people like you. Nice of you to acknowledge it.


    My understanding of electronics and electrics as well as experience
    has certainly benefited me over the years, certainly financially.

    What was it? House paid off in six years repairing ECU's?


    Not my claim but it is yet reveal as to why you're the absolute worst
    person to ever take a car to.

    You should run that by Trevor as an example of just how unreliable
    automotive electronics can be :)


    I spoke the truth, you can't.

    You "Speak the truth" ROTFL.


    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From keithr0@me@bugger.off.com.au to aus.cars on Sat Jan 3 15:27:29 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 3/01/2026 11:39 am, Clocky wrote:
    On 2/01/2026 6:08 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 2/01/2026 3:53 pm, Xeno wrote:
    On 1/1/2026 9:41 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 1/01/2026 6:32 pm, Xeno wrote:
    On 31/12/2025 5:07 pm, Daryl wrote:
    On 31/12/2025 3:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 31/12/2025 12:31 pm, Xeno wrote:
    On 31/12/2025 10:20 am, Daryl wrote:

    <snippety doo dah>


    Maybe mechanics figure they don't need to go back to Tech,
    they'll just learn from *experience*. Just like Darren did when >>>>>>>> he *experienced* what would happen when he removed ~20 thou of >>>>>>>> piston to valve clearance on Les' engine. Hmm, that was a rather >>>>>>>> expensive lesson, wasn't it? Not as expensive as the above parts >>>>>>>> cannon exercise with the BEV but getting up there!

    Just the usual crap that, for some strange reason, you find
    necessary to include no matter the subject.

    He can't help himself, he is wrong on all counts because it never >>>>>> happened yet he keeping go over the same shit making a fool of
    himself over and over again.
    The people who couldn't find the fault were dealer trained and
    following the manufactures fault finding procedures, the ones who >>>>>> eventually found the fault were independents who worked it out
    without specific training on that model, so much for dealing
    "training".

    You really don't have a clue, do you? It's all about understanding
    electrical concepts hence the ability to conduct effective testing. >>>>> I have stated many times in the past - a lot of mechanics simply do >>>>> not understand *electricity* well enough to do basic testing much
    less the testing of electronic or networking circuitry. Dealer
    training has nothing to do with it. These chaps *understood*
    electrical concepts and were able to translate that to an effective >>>>> testing regime.

    I.E. talent is more important than qualifications. Thanks for agreeing. >>>
    Hardly! Training is what is needed. From training and associated work
    experience comes certification.


    AI Overview
    Working on Battery Electric Vehicles (BEVs) in the U.S. requires
    specialized training, certifications (like ASE EV certifications and
    EVITP for electricians), and adherence to strict safety standards
    (like NFPA 70E) due to high voltages (200-600V), demanding skills in
    electrical systems, advanced software, robotics, and safe chemical
    handling, often involving hands-on apprenticeships and focusing on
    complex problem-solving.
    Key Requirements & Skills:
    Electrical Expertise: High-voltage systems (200-600V), power
    inverters, DC-DC converters, and battery management systems (BMS).
    Safety Certifications: Mandatory training for "Qualified Electrical
    Workers" under NFPA 70E, including Lockout/Tagout procedures and arc
    flash prevention.
    Technical Skills: Proficiency with computer systems, AI, robotics,
    data literacy, and complex diagnostic software.
    Specialized Certifications: ASE's xEV certifications (Electrical
    Safety Awareness, Technician Electrical Safety) are becoming industry
    standards.
    Electrician Training: EVITP certification for installing and
    maintaining charging infrastructure.
    Soft Skills: Complex problem-solving, precision, and strong attention
    to detail are crucial.
    Training & Education Pathways:
    Apprenticeships: "Earn-and-learn" opportunities through employer-
    based programs.
    Formal Training: Programs integrating hands-on robotics, AI, and data
    literacy.
    On-the-Job Training: Essential for practical skills development.

    Want to work on BEVs in the US? You need training and *must have*
    certification else you don't get to first base. In order to work on
    anything above ~60 Volts DC, you are required to have appropriate
    electrical certification and you don't get that just because you're
    *talented*. Darren may have you convinced trade qualifications and
    certifications come in Weeties packets but that's not how the real
    world works hence there is no record anywhere of Darren's claimed
    achievements.


    The concept of isolating a faulty component from the rest of its
    circuitry is not new and not isolated to electrical.

    Rare these days in electronics

    I did mention *discrete circuitry*. If the board or circuit doesn't
    have a lot of discrete components, as is common in electronics these
    days, then the method is fraught.

    It is common in electronics to test discrete components *out of
    circuit* so that the circuitry does not provide any form of *loading*. >>>>
    You obviously know little about fault finding electronics, it's rare
    to have to do that, 90% of the time, the only reason that you take a
    component out of circuit is because you have already determined that
    it is faulty.

    That is all the indies did, they disconnected *both* ends of the HV >>>>> Cable from the associated circuits and that *isolated the fault to
    one of two wires which was then easy to test.

    Test how?

    IIRC, the tech used an *insulation tester*. Specialised areas,
    specialised tools, specialised training. Not surprised you didn't
    notice that point in the video - a whoosh moment for you.

    It is exactly what I would have done. Just need to have relevant
    test equipment and know how to use it. That you need to be told
    this tells me that your training in and understanding of electrical >>>>> concepts is also rather sparse.

    ROTFL, Your knowledge of diagnosing electronics is about on the same
    level as the 14yo who wants to be an auto sparky.

    The most difficult part of diagnosing electronic faults is
    recreating the problem, if it is there constantly, it's gift. Take
    it from somebody who spent 40 years fixing electronics of all kinds.

    The hero speaketh!

    The sound of running feet disappearing into the distance.


    Come back keith!

    You said that you couldn't speak any English at the age of 9, well it
    would appear that you can't understand it even today.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Clocky@notgonna@happen.com to aus.cars on Sat Jan 3 14:11:35 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 3/01/2026 1:25 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 3/01/2026 11:38 am, Clocky wrote:
    On 2/01/2026 6:46 pm, Noddy wrote:
    On 2/01/2026 4:59 pm, Clocky wrote:

    However, some people have a natural ability to think outside of the
    square or have a greater interest in a particular field that is
    advantageous -

    Yeah, that's right. Like people who, when an intermittent fault with
    an error code that cannot be retrieved can't get the fault to occur
    when they're looking at the vehicle do a bit of lateral thinking and
    swap parts around to see if the fault follows the swap the next time
    it occurs which will positively identify the cause.


    LOL, lateral thinking back to the 70's and all you know - part
    swapping in hope and ignorance.

    No goose, you failed to realise that an intermittent fault of that
    nature can easily be diagnosed by a tool that you had in your arsenal
    - and you literally said that you didn't even plug it in.

    Noddy on April 15 2023 wrote;

    "I never bothered plugging my scan tool in in the first place"

    So you had the tool at hand to diagnose it quickly and effectively but
    because you didn't know how to do that *and* because you're too lazy
    and stupid to learn you reached for all you know - shotgunning in hope.

    The best part is that you have absolutely no idea *why* you look so
    stupid and incompetent having posted that :-)

    It's the equivalent of you having a box of metric spanners and
    reaching for a gas-axe to undo an metric bolt on your Jeep because the
    Imperial spanner you tried didn't fit.

    You never did explain how long term fuel trim was going to diagnose a
    single misfire several weeks previous.

    that is true and that can be helpful.

    It is indeed. I know a guy like that. He made a good living solving
    the problems a lot of other people could not :)


    Thanks, I did make good money from it and also from picking up after
    people like you. Nice of you to acknowledge it.


    My understanding of electronics and electrics as well as experience
    has certainly benefited me over the years, certainly financially.

    What was it? House paid off in six years repairing ECU's?


    Not my claim but it is yet reveal as to why you're the absolute worst
    person to ever take a car to.

    You should run that by Trevor as an example of just how unreliable
    automotive electronics can be :)


    I spoke the truth, you can't.

    You "Speak the truth" ROTFL.



    Yep.

    OTOH have no integrity at all.
    --
    In thread "May need to buy petrol soon" Sept 23 2021 11:15:59am
    Keithr0 wrote: "He made the assertion either he proves it or he is a
    proven liar."

    On Sept 23 2021 3:16:29pm Keithr0 wrote:
    "He asserts that the claim is true, so, if it is unproven, he is lying."
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Clocky@notgonna@happen.com to aus.cars on Sat Jan 3 14:14:05 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 3/01/2026 1:27 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 3/01/2026 11:39 am, Clocky wrote:
    On 2/01/2026 6:08 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 2/01/2026 3:53 pm, Xeno wrote:
    On 1/1/2026 9:41 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 1/01/2026 6:32 pm, Xeno wrote:
    On 31/12/2025 5:07 pm, Daryl wrote:
    On 31/12/2025 3:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 31/12/2025 12:31 pm, Xeno wrote:
    On 31/12/2025 10:20 am, Daryl wrote:

    <snippety doo dah>


    Maybe mechanics figure they don't need to go back to Tech,
    they'll just learn from *experience*. Just like Darren did when >>>>>>>>> he *experienced* what would happen when he removed ~20 thou of >>>>>>>>> piston to valve clearance on Les' engine. Hmm, that was a
    rather expensive lesson, wasn't it? Not as expensive as the >>>>>>>>> above parts cannon exercise with the BEV but getting up there! >>>>>>>>
    Just the usual crap that, for some strange reason, you find
    necessary to include no matter the subject.

    He can't help himself, he is wrong on all counts because it never >>>>>>> happened yet he keeping go over the same shit making a fool of
    himself over and over again.
    The people who couldn't find the fault were dealer trained and
    following the manufactures fault finding procedures, the ones who >>>>>>> eventually found the fault were independents who worked it out
    without specific training on that model, so much for dealing
    "training".

    You really don't have a clue, do you? It's all about understanding >>>>>> electrical concepts hence the ability to conduct effective
    testing. I have stated many times in the past - a lot of mechanics >>>>>> simply do not understand *electricity* well enough to do basic
    testing much less the testing of electronic or networking
    circuitry. Dealer training has nothing to do with it. These chaps >>>>>> *understood* electrical concepts and were able to translate that
    to an effective testing regime.

    I.E. talent is more important than qualifications. Thanks for
    agreeing.

    Hardly! Training is what is needed. From training and associated
    work experience comes certification.


    AI Overview
    Working on Battery Electric Vehicles (BEVs) in the U.S. requires
    specialized training, certifications (like ASE EV certifications and
    EVITP for electricians), and adherence to strict safety standards
    (like NFPA 70E) due to high voltages (200-600V), demanding skills in
    electrical systems, advanced software, robotics, and safe chemical
    handling, often involving hands-on apprenticeships and focusing on
    complex problem-solving.
    Key Requirements & Skills:
    Electrical Expertise: High-voltage systems (200-600V), power
    inverters, DC-DC converters, and battery management systems (BMS).
    Safety Certifications: Mandatory training for "Qualified Electrical
    Workers" under NFPA 70E, including Lockout/Tagout procedures and arc
    flash prevention.
    Technical Skills: Proficiency with computer systems, AI, robotics,
    data literacy, and complex diagnostic software.
    Specialized Certifications: ASE's xEV certifications (Electrical
    Safety Awareness, Technician Electrical Safety) are becoming
    industry standards.
    Electrician Training: EVITP certification for installing and
    maintaining charging infrastructure.
    Soft Skills: Complex problem-solving, precision, and strong
    attention to detail are crucial.
    Training & Education Pathways:
    Apprenticeships: "Earn-and-learn" opportunities through employer-
    based programs.
    Formal Training: Programs integrating hands-on robotics, AI, and
    data literacy.
    On-the-Job Training: Essential for practical skills development.

    Want to work on BEVs in the US? You need training and *must have*
    certification else you don't get to first base. In order to work on
    anything above ~60 Volts DC, you are required to have appropriate
    electrical certification and you don't get that just because you're
    *talented*. Darren may have you convinced trade qualifications and
    certifications come in Weeties packets but that's not how the real
    world works hence there is no record anywhere of Darren's claimed
    achievements.


    The concept of isolating a faulty component from the rest of its
    circuitry is not new and not isolated to electrical.

    Rare these days in electronics

    I did mention *discrete circuitry*. If the board or circuit doesn't
    have a lot of discrete components, as is common in electronics these
    days, then the method is fraught.

    It is common in electronics to test discrete components *out of
    circuit* so that the circuitry does not provide any form of
    *loading*.

    You obviously know little about fault finding electronics, it's
    rare to have to do that, 90% of the time, the only reason that you
    take a component out of circuit is because you have already
    determined that it is faulty.

    That is all the indies did, they disconnected *both* ends of the
    HV Cable from the associated circuits and that *isolated the fault >>>>>> to one of two wires which was then easy to test.

    Test how?

    IIRC, the tech used an *insulation tester*. Specialised areas,
    specialised tools, specialised training. Not surprised you didn't
    notice that point in the video - a whoosh moment for you.

    It is exactly what I would have done. Just need to have relevant
    test equipment and know how to use it. That you need to be told
    this tells me that your training in and understanding of
    electrical concepts is also rather sparse.

    ROTFL, Your knowledge of diagnosing electronics is about on the
    same level as the 14yo who wants to be an auto sparky.

    The most difficult part of diagnosing electronic faults is
    recreating the problem, if it is there constantly, it's gift. Take
    it from somebody who spent 40 years fixing electronics of all kinds.

    The hero speaketh!

    The sound of running feet disappearing into the distance.


    Come back keith!

    You said that you couldn't speak any English at the age of 9, well it
    would appear that you can't understand it even today.

    Your footsteps running away into the distance isn't a language, it's a
    sound.

    HTH.
    --
    In thread "May need to buy petrol soon" Sept 23 2021 11:15:59am
    Keithr0 wrote: "He made the assertion either he proves it or he is a
    proven liar."

    On Sept 23 2021 3:16:29pm Keithr0 wrote:
    "He asserts that the claim is true, so, if it is unproven, he is lying."
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Clocky@notgonna@happen.com to aus.cars on Sat Jan 3 15:46:50 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 2/01/2026 5:16 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 30/12/2025 9:55 am, Clocky wrote:
    On 29/12/2025 5:49 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 29/12/2025 8:19 pm, Daryl wrote:
    On 29/12/2025 6:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    A week ago last Friday, the car fairy paid a visit, and, like all
    good fairies, left a present - a RAV4.

    It has only done one journey beyond the local area, a 25Km trip to
    our daughter's place for Xmas day, but the economy looks OK,
    usually in the low 5s, sometimes in the upper 4s. It's quite a
    change from the Mazda 3, apart from the driving position being
    significantly higher, things have moved on in the 10 years since we >>>>> bought the M3.

    Not necessarily for the better IMO, too much electronics to go
    wrong, most of it is pretty reliable but can be a nightmare when it
    isn't.

    **Bullshit. Electronics, in general, have improved car reliability
    dramatically.

    Absolute garbage. Most definitely not.

    -a-aI cite the example of EFI as one that has VASTLY improved
    almost every aspect of engine flexibility,

    Yeah that was many decades ago now and did vastly improve reliability
    but as time has gone on and countless modules and systems have been
    introduced for superfluous bullshit reliability has declined.

    And that's not just electronics - cost reduction, emission control
    systems, CRD and pushing engines to their limits etc have all
    contributed to a decline in long term reliability.



    **Bullshit. My FC Holden was pretty much buggered at around 100,000
    miles. My first Escort (1.3L) was headed for a major engine rebuild at around 100,000km. My second Escort (1.6L pushrod) was a dud from day
    one, but it was headed for the scrapyard at around 100,000km. My first
    2L SOHC Escort was a bit special. It actually lasted quite well, whilst proving me with huge enjoyment. Even at 100,000km, it was happily
    revving past 7,000RPM. Until it was written off by an idiot running a
    red. My last Escort (2L) was a disappointment, but it lasted past
    150,000km. I actually managed to sell it. Then my VH Commodore came
    along. It lasted 175,000km before a complete engine swap (big mistake - Higginbottom disaster). That engine lasted another 100,000km, before it died. After that, my VL. Never gave me a minute's problems.

    Yeah which proves my point when I said EFI did vastly improve
    reliability and that it was decades ago.

    The VL was ~40 years ago and EFI. It had it's issues too.
    Not the first Holden with EFI, that belongs to the VK and it's "black"
    Holden 3.3L with Bosch Jetronic EFI option. Economy and power improved, reliability, well not so much :-)


    Sold with
    220,000km up. Then came my VP Commodore. Bits would fall off it and the paint was, well, barely paint, but it was generally quite reliable,
    until a tree branch (weighing an estimated 3 Tonnes) killed it at around 250,000km.


    Then I drove my partner's Ford Telstar. We sold it at
    245,000km. It was running fine.

    Early ones were shit.

    I just couldn't get the air-con fixed.
    Then my Nissan Stagea. I sold it at 245,000kms. I regularly receive
    texts from the purchaser, who is clocking up big kms in it. He loves it.
    As did I. It was a quite sophisticated car, electronically. Drive by
    wire, reversing camera, GPS, auto folding and tilting mirrors, etc, etc.


    Again, hardly new nor was it or anything special.

    All I can say is that cars are getting more reliable with each purchase.
    My Subaru Levorg has not given me a millisecond's trouble in 7 years. Of course, I've been using the same mechanic, or the guy who trained under
    that mechanic for many years. I trust him/them to ensure that my cars
    are reliable.

    The can only assure that they are well maintained. Reliability can't be assured. There were many optimally maintained Subaru's that suffered
    engine problems and CVT failures over fairly recent years.
    The Eyesight system has also been a bit problematic under certain
    conditions.

    In fact, when I purchased the VL, he swapped out the
    radiator cap on day one for a Toyota(?!) unit.


    I can assure you that that did not reposition the radiator or engine in
    the slightest :-)
    --
    In thread "May need to buy petrol soon" Sept 23 2021 11:15:59am
    Keithr0 wrote: "He made the assertion either he proves it or he is a
    proven liar."

    On Sept 23 2021 3:16:29pm Keithr0 wrote:
    "He asserts that the claim is true, so, if it is unproven, he is lying."
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Trevor Wilson@trevor@rageaudio.com.au to aus.cars on Sat Jan 3 19:16:23 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 3/01/2026 6:46 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 2/01/2026 5:16 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 30/12/2025 9:55 am, Clocky wrote:
    On 29/12/2025 5:49 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 29/12/2025 8:19 pm, Daryl wrote:
    On 29/12/2025 6:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    A week ago last Friday, the car fairy paid a visit, and, like all >>>>>> good fairies, left a present - a RAV4.

    It has only done one journey beyond the local area, a 25Km trip to >>>>>> our daughter's place for Xmas day, but the economy looks OK,
    usually in the low 5s, sometimes in the upper 4s. It's quite a
    change from the Mazda 3, apart from the driving position being
    significantly higher, things have moved on in the 10 years since
    we bought the M3.

    Not necessarily for the better IMO, too much electronics to go
    wrong, most of it is pretty reliable but can be a nightmare when it >>>>> isn't.

    **Bullshit. Electronics, in general, have improved car reliability
    dramatically.

    Absolute garbage. Most definitely not.

    -a-aI cite the example of EFI as one that has VASTLY improved
    almost every aspect of engine flexibility,

    Yeah that was many decades ago now and did vastly improve reliability
    but as time has gone on and countless modules and systems have been
    introduced for superfluous bullshit reliability has declined.

    And that's not just electronics - cost reduction, emission control
    systems, CRD and pushing engines to their limits etc have all
    contributed to a decline in long term reliability.



    **Bullshit. My FC Holden was pretty much buggered at around 100,000
    miles. My first Escort (1.3L) was headed for a major engine rebuild at
    around 100,000km. My second Escort (1.6L pushrod) was a dud from day
    one, but it was headed for the scrapyard at around 100,000km. My first
    2L SOHC Escort was a bit special. It actually lasted quite well,
    whilst proving me with huge enjoyment. Even at 100,000km, it was
    happily revving past 7,000RPM. Until it was written off by an idiot
    running a red. My last Escort (2L) was a disappointment, but it lasted
    past 150,000km. I actually managed to sell it. Then my VH Commodore
    came along. It lasted 175,000km before a complete engine swap (big
    mistake - Higginbottom disaster). That engine lasted another
    100,000km, before it died. After that, my VL. Never gave me a minute's
    problems.

    Yeah which proves my point when I said EFI did vastly improve
    reliability and that it was decades ago.

    The VL was ~40 years ago and EFI. It had it's issues too.
    Not the first Holden with EFI, that belongs to the VK and it's "black" Holden 3.3L with Bosch Jetronic EFI option. Economy and power improved, reliability, well not so much :-)


    -aSold with
    220,000km up. Then came my VP Commodore. Bits would fall off it and
    the paint was, well, barely paint, but it was generally quite
    reliable, until a tree branch (weighing an estimated 3 Tonnes) killed
    it at around 250,000km.


    Then I drove my partner's Ford Telstar. We sold it at
    245,000km. It was running fine.

    Early ones were shit.

    **Yep. I drove an early one. It felt like a truck. My partner's one was
    a 1989 model. A Ghia. It was a decent, comfortable, VERY reliable car.
    Best of all, when the clutch master and slave cylinders needed
    replacement, the total bill was around $600.00. At the same time my mate
    did the same job in his Jeep Compass (which used VW running gear). That
    cost him 3 Grand!


    -aI just couldn't get the air-con fixed.
    Then my Nissan Stagea. I sold it at 245,000kms. I regularly receive
    texts from the purchaser, who is clocking up big kms in it. He loves
    it. As did I. It was a quite sophisticated car, electronically. Drive
    by wire, reversing camera, GPS, auto folding and tilting mirrors, etc,
    etc.


    Again, hardly new nor was it or anything special.

    **The ONLY people who say that about the 2001 Nissan Stagea, are those
    who have never driven one. Trust me: It was a very special car. Quick (enough), luxurious, feature laden and very good handling (51:49 weight distribution, AWD, independent suspension, etc, etc). Such a great car.
    In fact, one of my customers spotted it out the front one day and
    mentioned that he knew the car (which was unusual). I asked what he knew
    about it. He explained that he was married to a Japanese girl, whose
    father owned one. I was stunned and asked: "He STILL OWNS one?" He
    confirmed that was the case. VERY unusual in Japan, as it is very
    expensive to keep an old car. He explained that his father-in-law owned
    one back in the early 2000s, but sold it and moved to something else (I
    dunno what). He was so disappointed in the new car, then he tracked down
    a good, used Stagea and bought it. Great car. Don't forget, back in
    2001, they sold for something like 4.5 million Yen. Sold here, they
    would likely have approached AUS$100,000.00. Think: Lexus quality.


    All I can say is that cars are getting more reliable with each
    purchase. My Subaru Levorg has not given me a millisecond's trouble in
    7 years. Of course, I've been using the same mechanic, or the guy who
    trained under that mechanic for many years. I trust him/them to ensure
    that my cars are reliable.

    The can only assure that they are well maintained. Reliability can't be assured.

    **Of course. When I mentioned to my mechanic that I thought a Fiat 595
    would make a nice weekend car, he screamed at me.

    There were many optimally maintained Subaru's that suffered
    engine problems and CVT failures over fairly recent years.

    **Sure. I've read the same stories. I will remind you that those
    problems are mechanical ones and, I'm led to believe, that it is mostly
    due to the lack of regular service to the gearbox.

    The Eyesight system has also been a bit problematic under certain conditions.

    **Nope. Under EXTREMELY heavy rain or EXTREMELY heavy fog, the Eyesight
    system won't work. That is not a fault. It's a fact of life and is dealt
    with in the manual. Frankly, anyone who drives quickly under such
    conditions and relies solely on instrumentation is a bit stupid, IMO. In
    8 years of owning the Subaru, my Eyesight system has ceased working 4
    times. Each time, it was VERY heavy rain or fog. It has never failed
    under any other conditions. Even what you would consider to be heavy
    rainfall, it works fine. That said, I would like to see Subaru augment
    the Eyesight system with radar.


    -aIn fact, when I purchased the VL, he swapped out the
    radiator cap on day one for a Toyota(?!) unit.


    I can assure you that that did not reposition the radiator or engine in
    the slightest :-)

    **Correct. And, come to think of it, it was the VP that had the radiator
    cap replaced. It was done to to prevent the constant radiator failures.

    However, cracked heads in the VL is not the result of an electronics
    failure.
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  • From Trevor Wilson@trevor@rageaudio.com.au to aus.cars on Sat Jan 3 19:27:06 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 3/01/2026 8:05 am, Daryl wrote:
    On 2/1/2026 8:16 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 30/12/2025 9:55 am, Clocky wrote:
    On 29/12/2025 5:49 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 29/12/2025 8:19 pm, Daryl wrote:
    On 29/12/2025 6:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    A week ago last Friday, the car fairy paid a visit, and, like all >>>>>> good fairies, left a present - a RAV4.

    It has only done one journey beyond the local area, a 25Km trip to >>>>>> our daughter's place for Xmas day, but the economy looks OK,
    usually in the low 5s, sometimes in the upper 4s. It's quite a
    change from the Mazda 3, apart from the driving position being
    significantly higher, things have moved on in the 10 years since
    we bought the M3.

    Not necessarily for the better IMO, too much electronics to go
    wrong, most of it is pretty reliable but can be a nightmare when it >>>>> isn't.

    **Bullshit. Electronics, in general, have improved car reliability
    dramatically.

    Absolute garbage. Most definitely not.

    -a-aI cite the example of EFI as one that has VASTLY improved
    almost every aspect of engine flexibility,

    Yeah that was many decades ago now and did vastly improve reliability
    but as time has gone on and countless modules and systems have been
    introduced for superfluous bullshit reliability has declined.

    And that's not just electronics - cost reduction, emission control
    systems, CRD and pushing engines to their limits etc have all
    contributed to a decline in long term reliability.



    **Bullshit. My FC Holden was pretty much buggered at around 100,000
    miles.

    Pretty much standard for those engines in those days.

    -aMy first Escort (1.3L) was headed for a major engine rebuild at
    around 100,000km.

    That is unusual, Kent engines are generally robust.

    **Robust, yes. Mine was diagnosed as requiring a new set of valve
    springs, along with a bunch of other stuff.


    -aMy second Escort (1.6L pushrod) was a dud from day
    one, but it was headed for the scrapyard at around 100,000km.

    Also unusual.

    **The 1.6L pushrod was a heap of shit. Barely made more power than the
    1.3L, revved out to a pitiful 5,500RPM and Dieseled when turned off.
    There was no cure. Ford had a kludge, which didn't work. All in all, the
    1.6L pushrod was a profoundly disappointing car. Particularly, since I
    had taken a 1.6L DOHC for a spin at the same time. WOW!


    -aMy first
    2L SOHC Escort was a bit special. It actually lasted quite well,
    whilst proving me with huge enjoyment. Even at 100,000km, it was
    happily revving past 7,000RPM. Until it was written off by an idiot
    running a red.

    Also unusual because Pinto engines were just okay.

    **185kph. Redlined in top gear. Brilliant thing. I had a bit of a race
    with a GTV2000 once. I kept up with him, until 140kph, where he began to
    pull away. Not bad for a crappy old Escort. The 2L Escort desperately
    deserved a 5th cog. I could easily stay with my mate's 4.1L Cortina.
    Until we hit a corner, of course. Then I left him for dead.


    -aMy last Escort (2L) was a disappointment, but it lasted past
    150,000km. I actually managed to sell it. Then my VH Commodore came
    along. It lasted 175,000km before a complete engine swap (big mistake
    - Higginbottom disaster). That engine lasted another 100,000km, before
    it died.

    Typical Holden of the day, could have been worse, you could have bought
    a VK piece of shit.

    -aAfter that, my VL. Never gave me a minute's problems. Sold with
    220,000km up. Then came my VP Commodore. Bits would fall off it and
    the paint was, well, barely paint, but it was generally quite
    reliable, until a tree branch (weighing an estimated 3 Tonnes) killed
    it at around 250,000km. Then I drove my partner's Ford Telstar. We
    sold it at 245,000km. It was running fine. I just couldn't get the
    air-con fixed. Then my Nissan Stagea. I sold it at 245,000kms. I
    regularly receive texts from the purchaser, who is clocking up big kms
    in it. He loves it. As did I. It was a quite sophisticated car,
    electronically. Drive by wire, reversing camera, GPS, auto folding and
    tilting mirrors, etc, etc.

    All I can say is that cars are getting more reliable with each
    purchase. My Subaru Levorg has not given me a millisecond's trouble in
    7 years. Of course, I've been using the same mechanic, or the guy who
    trained under that mechanic for many years. I trust him/them to ensure
    that my cars are reliable. In fact, when I purchased the VL, he
    swapped out the radiator cap on day one for a Toyota(?!) unit.

    LOL, you think that that is remarkable some how:-)

    **I mis-remembered. He swapped the radiator cap on my VP to prevent the radiator from failing. It worked.
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  • From Trevor Wilson@trevor@rageaudio.com.au to aus.cars on Sat Jan 3 19:34:31 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 2/01/2026 9:24 pm, Noddy wrote:
    On 2/01/2026 7:52 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 30/12/2025 10:46 am, Noddy wrote:

    Not at all. I still own vehicles that have points ignition systems
    and carburettors. They're generally not anywhere near as problematic
    as you make them out to be,

    **Yes, they are.

    No Trevor, they are not.
    **Of course they are. I have NEVER had an issue with the ignition on any
    EFI equipped car I've owned. OTOH, I have adjusted/replaced points many
    times.


    I've adjusted my fair share of points (and replaced same) many, many
    times. I've never had to touch the timing on any modern EFI car. Ever.
    A HUGE step forward in so many ways. Even my VH was a respectable step
    forward. And that was a very primitive implementation of electronics
    in a car.

    So what?
    **Points are a problem. Electronic systems are more reliable and ensure
    that the car remains in tune for much longer.


    Changing contact points was a once a year service procedure that for the average car cost around 10 bucks for the points and took all of half an
    hour to do, including running the timing light over the engine and
    adjusting the distributor.
    **In SOME cars, yes. In a 1.3L Escort, not so much. In any case,
    electronic ignition systems eliminates the problems of points. Forever.
    In fact, I would doubt that ANY presently being manufactured uses
    points. There's some damned good reasons for that.


    It was a simple process, so simple even you could do it, and the only
    reason unreliability was part of the equation was when people who
    *didn't* know what they were doing fucked it up.
    **Same as any issue. I used a timing light and a dwell meter on my cars. Worked fine. Except for the 1.3L Escort it was a simple enough job.
    HOWEVER, even that simple job was completely eliminated with electronic ignition systems.


    and in fact their biggest enemy was people who had
    no idea what they were doing messing with them. Their overwhelming
    advantage was that, unlike modern cars, they could be fixed on the
    side of the road easily if they stopped :)

    **That is a way overblown advantage, given the extreme reliability of
    modern electrical ignition systems.

    Lol :)

    The number of electronic ignition equipped cars that stopped suddenly
    and were left stranded on the side of the road *far* exceeded the "unreliability" associated with points ignition systems. This was
    especially so in the 1980's when manufacturers used horrible ignition modules that proved to suffer from extreme heat and vibration failures.
    **And such problems cease to exist now. MY old VH exbited just the kind
    of problem you mention. Easy solution though. PROPERLY mount the
    electronics, which Holden couldn't manage to do properly. Fact is that electronic systems are great, but when installed by morons at GMH, then
    all bets are off.


    And if we're going to play the "unlike you" game, then I would reply
    in saying that unlike you I have worked on *hundreds* cars over the
    years as well as owning an unknown number of cars myself, and if you
    think that the continual addition of electronic control for an ever
    increasing number of functions to modern cars has made them more
    reliable then you are delusional in the extreme.

    **Here's my opinion on cars:

    Out of 100 typical faults in cars, I bet you the following are
    approximately factual:

    90 will be mechanical faults.
    8 will be electro-mechanical faults.
    2 will be purely electronic faults.

    I may just check with my mechanic to see how for out I am.

    Please, do so, but don't be upset when you discover that you're about as wrong as you could possibly be :)
    **Then give my your figures. I bet you don't. The vast majority of
    faults are mechanical and electro-mechanical. I can relate it to my
    business. In my 50+ years in business I've worked on all manner of
    electronic and electro-mechanical devices (in the audio biz). That
    includes amplifiers, reel-reel decks, cassette decks, turntables, CD
    players, even WWII vintage wire recorders. In this systems, it is electro-mechanical systems where the vast majority of faults occur. Even
    in electronic systems, we find that dumb decisions by manufacturers have
    led to electronic faults which should never have occurred (like in my VH).

    Cars are no different, except that the systems need to be more rugged.


    In my experience, the overwhelming number of faults are either electro mechanical or purely electronic. Mechanical faults are definitely in the minority, and by a very long way.
    **Not with EVERY SINGLE car I've ever owned. Even my old Stagea, which
    was quite a sophisticated car for it's time. Mechanical problems were
    the main issues. Even the headlights in the Stagea were HID types. The headlights were the original lamps up until 200,000kms. I replaced them,
    as they had lost some of their light output. Now, I'm not 100% certain,
    but I reckon I've replaced at least one headlight in every car I've ever owned. The vast majority were H4 halogen types. The FC used sealed
    beams, I think and the old generator could barely generate enough juice
    to burn them out.


    Cars are *incredibly* complex machines these days, and as a result of
    that complexity they have a brittleness that has been unknown in
    previous times. They're wonderful machines that are capable of things
    that 40 years ago people could never have imagined, but they are
    incredibly fragile as a result.

    **Bollocks. Sure, if an electronic system fails, then you may be in a
    world of pain. However, such systems are far more reliable than purely
    mechanical ones.

    What purely mechanical ones are you talking about?
    **Where do I start?

    Brakes, wheel bearings, suspension issues, fan belt failures, radiator
    leaks (by VP went through 3 radiators), valve spring failures, cracked sub-frames, turbo failures, etc.


    I cite the example of EFI as one that has VASTLY improved almost
    every aspect of engine flexibility, performance, economy and
    reliability.

    Then you'd be citing it for the wrong reasons.

    **Really? You're wrong, of course.

    Yeah, well. Your limited personal experience is *not* the average.

    **Yeah, it is.

    You're delusional :)

    **My VL never gave me a hint of issues. Brilliant car. Well, the
    engine was excellent anyway.

    And this is a perfect example of how your personal experience doesn't
    tell you much. The Nissan RB30 engine as used in the VL Commodore was
    exceptionally well known for two distinct issues: Cylinder head
    cracking, and ignition system failures.

    **You just proved my point. MECHANICAL systems are the problem. NOT
    electronic systems. For the record: The same engine in the Nissan
    Skyline gave far fewer problems, thanks to superior cooling system
    design in the Nissan.

    Hate to break it to you. but the ignition system failures for which both
    the VL Commodore *and* the Skyline were *not* mechanical issues.
    **I SPECIFICALLY addressed your claim of cooling system (cracked heads) issues. Purely mechanical and another failure from GMH design.


    the CAS failure rate was so high that just about every parts seller
    in the country kept change over units in stock.

    **Never had a problem with mine. I assume the CAS is a consumable? If
    so, my mechanic would have replaced it at the suggested intervals.

    No, it isn't. Crank angle sensors are not a consumable, they are an
    ignition system component that gets replaced if and when they fail, and
    on the VL Commy and Skyline they failed with *alarming* regularity.
    **An electro-mechnical device, if I'm not mistaken. Remember what I said
    about electro-mechanical systems?

    Like I said: My Stagea was chocka-block full of sophisticated
    electronics. Not one single problem with the electronic systems. Even
    the very complex headlights (they run from 90 Volt modules). Mechanical
    faults were an issue, but no more so than any other Jap car.


    I have no idea how long you owned your VL Commodore for, but if you
    managed to avoid either the CAS failing or the head cracking then you
    were *extremely* lucky.
    **Nope. It just enjoyed regular and thorough servicing.


    Things have not universally improved today. While economy and power
    output continue to improve, reliability seems to be conversely
    affected.

    **Nope. I've noted a continuous improvement in reliability of my
    cars over time. That said, I've never owned any Euro-shit. Perhaps
    they're different.

    As I mentioned, your personal experience is *not* the average. There
    are thousands of people who would happily disagree with you.

    **And I would be happy to argue that electronic systems have made cars
    far more reliable, economical and driveable.

    And you'd be wrong. Cars these days are not more reliable. They are, however, more economical and have more features.
    **Not my experience.


    The only thing nonsensical about this is your lack of experience
    making you completely oblivious of the reality.

    **That's just it: I DO have more than 50 years of car ownership
    experience. I KNOW which parts of my cars have been troublesome. It
    has not been the electronics.

    And *again* you fail to grasp that your personal experience is *not* the average. That you had a trouble free run out of a VL Commodore is a
    prime example of that.

    Thousands of people did not.
    **I'm sure that's the case. I was well aware of the head cracking
    problems when I purchased the VL. I took steps to address the issue.


    There are *plenty* of cars out there today with electronic gremlins
    Trev, and it's not just the Euros.

    **Such as? And let's be real here: We're not talking about bad
    design. We're talking about electronic failures in otherwise well
    designed cars.

    Two things here. Firstly it's a bit late in the conversation to start
    qualifying your remarks, and secondly "well designed" is incredibly
    subjective :)

    There are a number of reasons why cars fail today, and design is only
    a part of it. The continual search for lower costs is a factor, as is
    inadequate testing along with the increasingly stringent emissions
    standards vehicles are expected to meet today. Many vehicles today
    suffer from issues that are the result of nothing more than
    components not being as durable as they should be. EGR valves are a
    big problem today.

    **Mechanical systems. Thanks for proving my point.

    The failure point on most EGR valves is the electric actuator :)
    **Electro-mechanical.


    Oxygen sensors are a very common failure point.

    **Consumable.

    Oxygen sensors are *not* a consumable. They have no fixed replacement interval. They are changed when they fail, and they fail often.
    **Most mechanics suggest O2 sensors be replaced at between 100,000 ~ 150,000km. Sounds about right, given the brutal extremes that the sensor
    of exposed to. FWIW: That distance is longer than the distance travelled
    by my first two Escorts, before they died.


    Fuel injectors
    having remarkably short lives.

    **Electro-mechanical device. Again: It is MECHANICAL systems that
    cause the vast majority of problems. Not the electronics.

    Cam and crank position sensors are famous
    for random failures on many vehicles.

    **Consumables. Hardly electronic devices.

    You have no idea, do you? They *are* electronic devices, and they are
    *not* "consumables" :)
    **They are electro-mechanical devices and as such, are subject to wear.




    Variable rate charging systems can
    be erratic.

    These are just some of the everyday normalities. But then you have
    your "freak" issues, like electric power steering malfunctions which
    affected Toyota Corollas some years ago in the US that saw cars
    suddenly pull on full right or left lock at freeway speeds, and drive
    by wire throttle systems that would stick fully open which also
    affected some Toyotas if I recall.

    **Sounds a lot like my old man's Valiant. A common fault on that model
    (AP6, I think).

    They're far from isolated incidents, but the point being that
    *none* of these things were problems that affected older cars in the
    main, and they are all side effects of the complexity of modern
    vehicles.

    **Wrong. Valiant AP6. Common fault.

    An AP6 Valiant didn't have a fly by wire throttle that randomly decided
    to deck itself to the floor and stay there until the driver shut the
    engine off.

    **The AP6 Valiant DID have a problem where the throttle would jam fully
    on. I recall my father arriving home after just such an incident. He was concerned. I will also add a correction. It was an AP5, not an AP6.
    Anyway, he dumped the AP5 and 'updated' to a small V8 VE soon after. He considered it a safer car. I didn't. The VE was a death trap. By the
    time the VE arrived, dad had purchased an EH. Except for power, the
    gearbox, the EH was a much better resolved car. Much better 'round corners.


    *Thousands* of
    people have not, and I would suggest that if you want a genuine arms
    length opinion on that then talk to your mechanic. I'm sure he'll
    tell you the same thing I am :)

    **If I can catch him with 5 mins to spare, I will. He is busier than a
    one legged man in an arse kicking contest.

    I genuinely suggest you do have a chat to him and get his perspective, because as far as I can tell you have an extreme case of tunnel vision
    where you think everyone else's experiences have been exactly the same
    as yours.

    You'll be surprised to hear what he has to say.
    **I doubt that.
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  • From Daryl@dwalford@westpine.com.au to aus.cars on Sat Jan 3 21:17:06 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 3/1/2026 7:27 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 3/01/2026 8:05 am, Daryl wrote:
    On 2/1/2026 8:16 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 30/12/2025 9:55 am, Clocky wrote:
    On 29/12/2025 5:49 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 29/12/2025 8:19 pm, Daryl wrote:
    On 29/12/2025 6:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    A week ago last Friday, the car fairy paid a visit, and, like all >>>>>>> good fairies, left a present - a RAV4.

    It has only done one journey beyond the local area, a 25Km trip >>>>>>> to our daughter's place for Xmas day, but the economy looks OK, >>>>>>> usually in the low 5s, sometimes in the upper 4s. It's quite a
    change from the Mazda 3, apart from the driving position being
    significantly higher, things have moved on in the 10 years since >>>>>>> we bought the M3.

    Not necessarily for the better IMO, too much electronics to go
    wrong, most of it is pretty reliable but can be a nightmare when
    it isn't.

    **Bullshit. Electronics, in general, have improved car reliability
    dramatically.

    Absolute garbage. Most definitely not.

    -a-aI cite the example of EFI as one that has VASTLY improved
    almost every aspect of engine flexibility,

    Yeah that was many decades ago now and did vastly improve
    reliability but as time has gone on and countless modules and
    systems have been introduced for superfluous bullshit reliability
    has declined.

    And that's not just electronics - cost reduction, emission control
    systems, CRD and pushing engines to their limits etc have all
    contributed to a decline in long term reliability.



    **Bullshit. My FC Holden was pretty much buggered at around 100,000
    miles.

    Pretty much standard for those engines in those days.

    -a-aMy first Escort (1.3L) was headed for a major engine rebuild at
    around 100,000km.

    That is unusual, Kent engines are generally robust.

    **Robust, yes. Mine was diagnosed as requiring a new set of valve
    springs, along with a bunch of other stuff.

    Needing new valve springs at 100,00km says to me that the engine was
    abused in that it was held at high rpm too often, its also hardly a
    "major rebuild" its actually a simple job on those engines.



    -a-aMy second Escort (1.6L pushrod) was a dud from day
    one, but it was headed for the scrapyard at around 100,000km.

    Also unusual.

    **The 1.6L pushrod was a heap of shit. Barely made more power than the
    1.3L, revved out to a pitiful 5,500RPM and Dieseled when turned off.
    There was no cure. Ford had a kludge, which didn't work. All in all, the 1.6L pushrod was a profoundly disappointing car. Particularly, since I
    had taken a 1.6L DOHC for a spin at the same time. WOW!

    Trying to remind what year that car would have been?
    Late 70's early 80's?
    If so that was around the time when emissions rules were new and many
    car makers struggled to meet emissions and still make decent power, many
    lost power so not really the fault of the engine.


    -a-aMy first
    2L SOHC Escort was a bit special. It actually lasted quite well,
    whilst proving me with huge enjoyment. Even at 100,000km, it was
    happily revving past 7,000RPM. Until it was written off by an idiot
    running a red.

    Also unusual because Pinto engines were just okay.

    **185kph. Redlined in top gear. Brilliant thing. I had a bit of a race
    with a GTV2000 once. I kept up with him, until 140kph, where he began to pull away. Not bad for a crappy old Escort. The 2L Escort desperately deserved a 5th cog. I could easily stay with my mate's 4.1L Cortina.
    Until we hit a corner, of course. Then I left him for dead.

    I had an RS2000 for a couple of weeks in the early 80's, my memory was
    that it went rather well but compared to anything modern it was pretty slow.


    -a-aMy last Escort (2L) was a disappointment, but it lasted past
    150,000km. I actually managed to sell it. Then my VH Commodore came
    along. It lasted 175,000km before a complete engine swap (big mistake
    - Higginbottom disaster). That engine lasted another 100,000km,
    before it died.

    Typical Holden of the day, could have been worse, you could have
    bought a VK piece of shit.

    -a-aAfter that, my VL. Never gave me a minute's problems. Sold with
    220,000km up. Then came my VP Commodore. Bits would fall off it and
    the paint was, well, barely paint, but it was generally quite
    reliable, until a tree branch (weighing an estimated 3 Tonnes) killed
    it at around 250,000km. Then I drove my partner's Ford Telstar. We
    sold it at 245,000km. It was running fine. I just couldn't get the
    air-con fixed. Then my Nissan Stagea. I sold it at 245,000kms. I
    regularly receive texts from the purchaser, who is clocking up big
    kms in it. He loves it. As did I. It was a quite sophisticated car,
    electronically. Drive by wire, reversing camera, GPS, auto folding
    and tilting mirrors, etc, etc.

    All I can say is that cars are getting more reliable with each
    purchase. My Subaru Levorg has not given me a millisecond's trouble
    in 7 years. Of course, I've been using the same mechanic, or the guy
    who trained under that mechanic for many years. I trust him/them to
    ensure that my cars are reliable. In fact, when I purchased the VL,
    he swapped out the radiator cap on day one for a Toyota(?!) unit.

    LOL, you think that that is remarkable some how:-)

    **I mis-remembered. He swapped the radiator cap on my VP to prevent the radiator from failing. It worked.


    Sounds like a lower pressure cap which may have stopped the radiator
    failing but it lowered the coolants boiling point which isn't a great
    idea especially on a car notorious for cooling system issues.
    --
    Daryl
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  • From Noddy@me@home.com to aus.cars on Sat Jan 3 21:38:41 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 3/01/2026 7:34 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 2/01/2026 9:24 pm, Noddy wrote:

    Not at all. I still own vehicles that have points ignition systems
    and carburettors. They're generally not anywhere near as problematic
    as you make them out to be,

    **Yes, they are.

    No Trevor, they are not.

    **Of course they are. I have NEVER had an issue with the ignition on any
    EFI equipped car I've owned. OTOH, I have adjusted/replaced points many times.

    You seem to be confusing "reliability" with "maintenance".

    All points ignition systems required regular maintenance, but that
    doesn't mean they were unreliable in and of themselves.

    I've adjusted my fair share of points (and replaced same) many, many
    times. I've never had to touch the timing on any modern EFI car. Ever.
    A HUGE step forward in so many ways. Even my VH was a respectable step
    forward. And that was a very primitive implementation of electronics
    in a car.

    So what?

    **Points are a problem. Electronic systems are more reliable and ensure
    that the car remains in tune for much longer.

    Until they stop working, at which point they ensure that the car has to
    be towed to a service centre :)

    Changing contact points was a once a year service procedure that for the average car cost around 10 bucks for the points and took all of half an hour to do, including running the timing light over the engine and adjusting the distributor.

    **In SOME cars, yes. In a 1.3L Escort, not so much.

    In any car with points, and there was nothing unique about the ignition
    system in an early Escort that made it unreliable or difficult to service.

    In any case, electronic ignition systems eliminates the problems of points. Forever.

    And what exactly are the "problems" of points again? :)

    In fact, I would doubt that ANY presently being manufactured uses
    points. There's some damned good reasons for that.

    I don't know of any current vehicles that use points ignition systems.
    The last to do so that I know of were Mistubishi and Mazda commercials
    in the late 1980's. The main reason for the switch to electronic
    ignition systems was not because of any perceived reliability issues
    that a few ignorants might have :), but because it was necessary when
    going from carburetted to electronic injected fuel systems.

    A points ignition system cannot be controlled by an ECU, which is
    necessary for EFI systems to operate efficiently and effectively.

    It was a simple process, so simple even you could do it, and the only reason unreliability was part of the equation was when people who
    *didn't* know what they were doing fucked it up.

    **Same as any issue. I used a timing light and a dwell meter on my cars. Worked fine. Except for the 1.3L Escort it was a simple enough job.
    HOWEVER, even that simple job was completely eliminated with electronic ignition systems.

    So your cars didn't become any more reliable. Servicing got easier.
    Thanks for clearing that up :)

    The number of electronic ignition equipped cars that stopped suddenly
    and were left stranded on the side of the road *far* exceeded the "unreliability" associated with points ignition systems. This was especially so in the 1980's when manufacturers used horrible ignition modules that proved to suffer from extreme heat and vibration failures.

    **And such problems cease to exist now.

    I wouldn't say it's been completely eliminated, but it has certainly
    been reduced.

    MY old VH exbited just the kind of problem you mention. Easy solution though. PROPERLY mount the
    electronics, which Holden couldn't manage to do properly. Fact is that electronic systems are great, but when installed by morons at GMH, then
    all bets are off.

    It wasn't just Holden.

    *Many* manufacturers had issues with ignition module unreliability, and
    a great many of them were Japanese. A lot of workshops used to keep a
    range of the most popular modules in stock for that very purpose.


    **Here's my opinion on cars:

    Out of 100 typical faults in cars, I bet you the following are
    approximately factual:

    90 will be mechanical faults.
    8 will be electro-mechanical faults.
    2 will be purely electronic faults.

    I may just check with my mechanic to see how for out I am.

    Please, do so, but don't be upset when you discover that you're about as wrong as you could possibly be :)

    **Then give my your figures. I bet you don't.

    I already did.

    The vast majority of faults are mechanical and electro-mechanical. I can relate it to my
    business.

    Unless the equipment you repair goes rushing down the road at varying
    rates of speed and load in all kinds of weather conditions then you
    can't even begin to go close and the idea is a complete and utter nonsense.

    It would be like trying to assume that you can imagine what the
    reliability of locomotives is like because you repair vacuum cleaners :)

    In my 50+ years in business I've worked on all manner of
    electronic and electro-mechanical devices (in the audio biz). That
    includes amplifiers, reel-reel decks, cassette decks, turntables, CD players, even WWII vintage wire recorders. In this systems, it is electro-mechanical systems where the vast majority of faults occur. Even
    in electronic systems, we find that dumb decisions by manufacturers have
    led to electronic faults which should never have occurred (like in my VH).

    That's nice.

    Cars are no different, except that the systems need to be more rugged.

    Cars are *vastly* different, and to suggest otherwise tells me that you
    have zero understanding of the subject matter.

    In my experience, the overwhelming number of faults are either electro mechanical or purely electronic. Mechanical faults are definitely in the minority, and by a very long way.

    **Not with EVERY SINGLE car I've ever owned.

    Again, your personal experience is relevant only to you.

    Even my old Stagea, which was quite a sophisticated car for it's time. Mechanical problems were
    the main issues. Even the headlights in the Stagea were HID types. The headlights were the original lamps up until 200,000kms. I replaced them,
    as they had lost some of their light output. Now, I'm not 100% certain,
    but I reckon I've replaced at least one headlight in every car I've ever owned. The vast majority were H4 halogen types. The FC used sealed
    beams, I think and the old generator could barely generate enough juice
    to burn them out.

    I'm trying to see how this passage here is relevant to anything at all....

    **Bollocks. Sure, if an electronic system fails, then you may be in a
    world of pain. However, such systems are far more reliable than purely
    mechanical ones.

    What purely mechanical ones are you talking about?
    **Where do I start?

    Brakes, wheel bearings, suspension issues, fan belt failures, radiator
    leaks (by VP went through 3 radiators), valve spring failures, cracked sub-frames, turbo failures, etc.

    Yeah, I've seen all of those. But I've seen *far* more electronic and/or electro mechanical faults. Like I keep having to remind you. Your
    experience is *not* the norm no matter how much you wish to imagine
    otherwise.

    **You just proved my point. MECHANICAL systems are the problem. NOT
    electronic systems. For the record: The same engine in the Nissan
    Skyline gave far fewer problems, thanks to superior cooling system
    design in the Nissan.

    Hate to break it to you. but the ignition system failures for which both the VL Commodore *and* the Skyline were *not* mechanical issues.

    **I SPECIFICALLY addressed your claim of cooling system (cracked heads) issues. Purely mechanical and another failure from GMH design.

    Actually if you want to get technical, the head cracking problem was a
    Nissan issue. The head casting had design flaws and material issues that limited the amount of longitudinal movement the head could tolerate
    before it would split open along it's length along the top of the
    casting right under the camshaft.

    I've welded up and line bored hundreds of the things. I know all about
    why they failed. The design of the head and the material used to make it wasn't Holden's fault. All they did was to use a cooling system that was susceptible to creating an overheat condition if the system wasn't bled properly, and *that* would highlight the fragility of the head casting.

    Skylines had a cooling system that wasn't as intricate, and as a result
    they were less likely to overheat. Still, if you did, the Skyline head
    would split open in exactly the same way.

    No, it isn't. Crank angle sensors are not a consumable, they are an ignition system component that gets replaced if and when they fail, and
    on the VL Commy and Skyline they failed with *alarming* regularity.
    **An electro-mechnical device, if I'm not mistaken. Remember what I said about electro-mechanical systems?

    Like I said: My Stagea was chocka-block full of sophisticated
    electronics. Not one single problem with the electronic systems. Even
    the very complex headlights (they run from 90 Volt modules). Mechanical faults were an issue, but no more so than any other Jap car.

    For every one of your cars you mention that you claim never had issues,
    I could mention a dozen that did. Similarly, I could mention cars I
    owned that were problem free that were known for issues that affected
    many others.

    The point being that individual vehicles in isolation doesn't account
    for much. There are no doubt some people out there who had excellent reliability out of JB Camiras.

    And *again* you fail to grasp that your personal experience is *not* the average. That you had a trouble free run out of a VL Commodore is a
    prime example of that.

    Thousands of people did not.

    **I'm sure that's the case. I was well aware of the head cracking
    problems when I purchased the VL. I took steps to address the issue.

    And yet you seemed blissfully unaware of the crank angle sensor problem
    which probably affected the model more than the head cracking issue ever
    did.



    There are a number of reasons why cars fail today, and design is only
    a part of it. The continual search for lower costs is a factor, as is
    inadequate testing along with the increasingly stringent emissions
    standards vehicles are expected to meet today. Many vehicles today
    suffer from issues that are the result of nothing more than
    components not being as durable as they should be. EGR valves are a
    big problem today.

    **Mechanical systems. Thanks for proving my point.

    The failure point on most EGR valves is the electric actuator :)

    **Electro-mechanical.

    Yep. Not a mechanical issue per se.

    -a-a Oxygen sensors are a very common failure point.

    **Consumable.

    Oxygen sensors are *not* a consumable. They have no fixed replacement interval. They are changed when they fail, and they fail often.

    **Most mechanics suggest O2 sensors be replaced at between 100,000 ~ 150,000km. Sounds about right, given the brutal extremes that the sensor
    of exposed to.

    Only the ones looking to sell you an unnecessary oxygen sensor
    replacement :)

    They are *not* a regular service item. Period.

    FWIW: That distance is longer than the distance travelled
    by my first two Escorts, before they died.

    Must have been something wrong with them. The Kent engine as used in
    early Escorts is renown as one of the best 4 cylinder engines ever made
    and are generally extremely robust.

    -a-a Cam and crank position sensors are famous
    for random failures on many vehicles.

    **Consumables. Hardly electronic devices.

    You have no idea, do you? They *are* electronic devices, and they are *not* "consumables" :)

    **They are electro-mechanical devices and as such, are subject to wear.

    Crank and cam position sensors are *not* electro mechanical devices.
    Neither are coil packs or ignition modules, yet they are *all* items
    that cause problems on modern cars.

    You don't even know what these items are or how they operate, yet you
    can argue black and blue about their reliability rates :)

    As I said, you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

    An AP6 Valiant didn't have a fly by wire throttle that randomly decided
    to deck itself to the floor and stay there until the driver shut the engine off.

    **The AP6 Valiant DID have a problem where the throttle would jam fully
    on.

    Your father's one did apparently.

    I recall my father arriving home after just such an incident. He was concerned. I will also add a correction. It was an AP5, not an AP6.
    Anyway, he dumped the AP5 and 'updated' to a small V8 VE soon after. He considered it a safer car. I didn't. The VE was a death trap. By the
    time the VE arrived, dad had purchased an EH. Except for power, the
    gearbox, the EH was a much better resolved car. Much better 'round corners.

    Odd. I've owned both over the years and if I had to put money on which
    was the least well mannered car, the EH would win hands down.

    I genuinely suggest you do have a chat to him and get his perspective, because as far as I can tell you have an extreme case of tunnel vision where you think everyone else's experiences have been exactly the same
    as yours.

    You'll be surprised to hear what he has to say.

    **I doubt that.

    Of course you do, and that's because you have no idea what you're
    talking about. You are under some delusion that holding a driver's
    licence for 50+ years makes you an expert on all things mechanical, and
    I'm sorry to inform you but it does not.

    You seem to have a scant understanding of the systems you mention at
    best, yet firmly believe that you can comment with authority on how well
    they work which I find totally bizarre.

    I don't expect you to believe me, but talk to your mechanic like I said. Better yet, make a note of some of the points that have been raised and
    ask him about them. I'm sure he'll have an opinion.
    --
    --
    --
    Regards,
    Noddy.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Noddy@me@home.com to aus.cars on Sat Jan 3 21:56:39 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 3/01/2026 7:27 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 3/01/2026 8:05 am, Daryl wrote:

    -a-aMy first Escort (1.3L) was headed for a major engine rebuild at
    around 100,000km.

    That is unusual, Kent engines are generally robust.

    **Robust, yes. Mine was diagnosed as requiring a new set of valve
    springs, along with a bunch of other stuff.

    Sounds like it had the shit kicked out of it before you bought it.


    -a-aMy second Escort (1.6L pushrod) was a dud from day
    one, but it was headed for the scrapyard at around 100,000km.

    Also unusual.

    **The 1.6L pushrod was a heap of shit. Barely made more power than the
    1.3L, revved out to a pitiful 5,500RPM and Dieseled when turned off.
    There was no cure. Ford had a kludge, which didn't work. All in all, the 1.6L pushrod was a profoundly disappointing car. Particularly, since I
    had taken a 1.6L DOHC for a spin at the same time. WOW!

    And yet the 1.6 Pushrod engine had it's own class of racing where it was
    both reliable and reasonably powerful.

    There was a roughly 25% power output difference between the 1300 and
    1600 pushrod Escort engines, and if yours didn't have that then there
    was something wrong with it. I owned both (Mk.I 1300 and Mk.II 1600 as
    well as an RS2000) and the difference between the 1300 and 1600 variants
    was like the difference between a Mini 850 and a Cooper S.

    Also unusual because Pinto engines were just okay.

    **185kph. Redlined in top gear. Brilliant thing. I had a bit of a race
    with a GTV2000 once. I kept up with him, until 140kph, where he began to pull away. Not bad for a crappy old Escort. The 2L Escort desperately deserved a 5th cog. I could easily stay with my mate's 4.1L Cortina.
    Until we hit a corner, of course. Then I left him for dead.

    ROTFL :)

    The 4.1 Corty must have only been running on 4 cylinders :)
    --
    --
    --
    Regards,
    Noddy.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Noddy@me@home.com to aus.cars on Sat Jan 3 21:57:59 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 3/01/2026 12:54 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 2/01/2026 9:03 pm, Noddy wrote:

    Interesting, my RAV is an AWD, and there appears to be a spare right
    there under the boot. I can take a picture of it if you like.

    Lol :)

    Reality shooting holes in his bullshit yet *again*. Jeez, you'd reckon
    mental case would have learnt his lesson and had enough by now.... :)



    Yet another basic English comprehension fail. Let me educate you.

    "If it is AWD, likely no spare."

    Key word *likely*.

    Yet you incorrectly interpreted that as the absolute statement;

    "If it is AWD, no spare."

    Do you understand?

    ROTFL :)

    I love it when you get all high and mighty and correct the wrong person :)
    --
    --
    --
    Regards,
    Noddy.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Noddy@me@home.com to aus.cars on Sat Jan 3 22:05:30 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 3/01/2026 4:27 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 3/01/2026 11:39 am, Clocky wrote:

    Come back keith!

    You said that you couldn't speak any English at the age of 9, well it
    would appear that you can't understand it even today.

    Interesting how his bullshit starts to unravel when he slips up like this :)

    He's exactly 10 years younger than I am, which means he'll be 53 on his
    next birthday. If I remember correctly he said he arrived in this
    country and started school here when he was 9 without being able to
    speak any English at all, which would make that around 1982.

    Yet in previous times when desperately trying to exert his authority
    into an argument, he claimed to have witnessed "Datsun 200B's rusting
    away in holding yards" while they were new cars waiting for delivery.

    The only problem here is that the 200B was sold in Australian between
    1977 and 1981, and was done and dusted before he ever arrived here.

    How odd :)
    --
    --
    --
    Regards,
    Noddy.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Noddy@me@home.com to aus.cars on Sat Jan 3 22:12:14 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 3/01/2026 12:38 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 2/01/2026 6:46 pm, Noddy wrote:

    Yeah, that's right. Like people who, when an intermittent fault with
    an error code that cannot be retrieved can't get the fault to occur
    when they're looking at the vehicle do a bit of lateral thinking and
    swap parts around to see if the fault follows the swap the next time
    it occurs which will positively identify the cause.


    LOL, lateral thinking back to the 70's and all you know - part swapping
    in hope and ignorance.

    No goose, you failed to realise that an intermittent fault of that
    nature can easily be diagnosed by a tool that you had in your arsenal -
    and you literally said that you didn't even plug it in.

    Noddy on April 15 2023 wrote;

    "I never bothered plugging my scan tool in in the first place"

    Yeah, that's right. I never bothered plugging a scan tool into the car
    because the fault code had been cleared the thing gone through the
    minimum number of start cycles without it reoccurring which meant the
    code had been permanently deleted, and despite your nonsensical claims
    there was no hope of it ever being retrieved.

    None. That's why I thought outside the box and did what I did, and it
    proved to be a very successful idea.

    Don't worry Junior. Such competence isn't for everyone. The world needs mudflap fitters too.
    --
    --
    --
    Regards,
    Noddy.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Noddy@me@home.com to aus.cars on Sat Jan 3 22:13:20 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 3/01/2026 4:25 pm, keithr0 wrote:


    It's the equivalent of you having a box of metric spanners and
    reaching for a gas-axe to undo an metric bolt on your Jeep because the
    Imperial spanner you tried didn't fit.

    You never did explain how long term fuel trim was going to diagnose a
    single misfire several weeks previous.

    Do you think that was accidental? :)
    --
    --
    --
    Regards,
    Noddy.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Xeno@xenolith@optusnet.com.au to aus.cars on Sat Jan 3 22:47:28 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 3/1/2026 9:38 pm, Noddy wrote:
    On 3/01/2026 7:34 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:

    <snip>

    -a-a Oxygen sensors are a very common failure point.

    **Consumable.

    Oxygen sensors are *not* a consumable. They have no fixed replacement
    interval. They are changed when they fail, and they fail often.

    **Most mechanics suggest O2 sensors be replaced at between 100,000 ~
    150,000km. Sounds about right, given the brutal extremes that the
    sensor of exposed to.

    Only the ones looking to sell you an unnecessary oxygen sensor
    replacement :)

    They are *not* a regular service item. Period.



    Oxygen sensors *are* a regular service item. That is because the active element gets poisoned over time. That means they progressively read
    lean. That then lead to STFT and LTFT enrichment with increased fuel consumption. This enrichment will not lead to DTCs but will increase the
    fuel bill. Calculate, if you will, what a 1 litre per 100 km increase in
    fuel consumption will cost you. In a couple of service intervals you
    will have easily paid for a new sensor

    AI Overview
    Oxygen (O2) sensors typically last 50,000 to 100,000 miles
    (80,000-160,000 km) in modern cars, with newer wideband sensors going
    even longer (up to 150k+ miles), while older unheated sensors might only
    hit 30,000-50,000 miles, but factors like contaminants (oil, coolant,
    carbon) and driving conditions significantly affect lifespan,
    potentially shortening it.


    So, the reality is that oxygen sensors DO AGE. That aging can be
    accelerated by numerous factors (called poisoning) and there is
    sufficient info out there on that topic. But they will age *naturally*
    whilst in service and, typically, the only sign they are doing so is
    increased fuel consumption because the natural aging process makes them
    read progressively leaner.

    So, given that oxygen sensors have a *service life*, they are
    automatically a *service item*, a *consumable*. If you choose to extend
    their service life, you, or the customer, will pay in excessive fuel consumption. Just do the math! Oh, that's a good point, you really don't
    have a clue with numbers, do you Darren?
    --
    Xeno

    Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
    (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Xeno@xenolith@optusnet.com.au to aus.cars on Sat Jan 3 22:49:14 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 3/1/2026 10:05 pm, Noddy wrote:
    On 3/01/2026 4:27 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 3/01/2026 11:39 am, Clocky wrote:

    Come back keith!

    You said that you couldn't speak any English at the age of 9, well it
    would appear that you can't understand it even today.

    Interesting how his bullshit starts to unravel when he slips up like
    this :)

    Your bullshit unraveled ages ago.
    --
    Xeno

    Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
    (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From alvey@Factman@gmail.com to aus.cars on Sat Jan 3 22:18:20 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    Noddy wrote:
    On 3/01/2026 12:54 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 2/01/2026 9:03 pm, Noddy wrote:

    Interesting, my RAV is an AWD, and there appears to be a spare right
    there under the boot. I can take a picture of it if you like.

    Lol :)

    Reality shooting holes in his bullshit yet *again*. Jeez, you'd
    reckon mental case would have learnt his lesson and had enough by
    now.... :)



    Yet another basic English comprehension fail. Let me educate you.

    "If it is AWD, likely no spare."

    Key word *likely*.

    Yet you incorrectly interpreted that as the absolute statement;

    "If it is AWD, no spare."

    Do you understand?

    ROTFL :)

    I love it when you get all high and mighty and correct the wrong person :)

    Whereas the unintended humour of your feeble attempts at evasion has
    long since left the building.
    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From alvey@Factman@gmail.com to aus.cars on Sat Jan 3 22:52:14 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    Noddy wrote:
    On 3/01/2026 12:38 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 2/01/2026 6:46 pm, Noddy wrote:

    Yeah, that's right. Like people who, when an intermittent fault with
    an error code that cannot be retrieved can't get the fault to occur
    when they're looking at the vehicle do a bit of lateral thinking and
    swap parts around to see if the fault follows the swap the next time
    it occurs which will positively identify the cause.


    LOL, lateral thinking back to the 70's and all you know - part
    swapping in hope and ignorance.

    No goose, you failed to realise that an intermittent fault of that
    nature can easily be diagnosed by a tool that you had in your arsenal
    - and you literally said that you didn't even plug it in.

    Noddy on April 15 2023 wrote;

    "I never bothered plugging my scan tool in in the first place"

    Yeah, that's right. I never bothered plugging a scan tool into the car because the fault code had been cleared the thing gone through the
    minimum number of start cycles without it reoccurring which meant the
    code had been permanently deleted, and despite your nonsensical claims
    there was no hope of it ever being retrieved.

    None. That's why I thought outside the box and did what I did, and it
    proved to be a very successful idea.

    You forgot something at the beginning Fraudster. You know, "Once upon a time..."

    hth
    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From jonz@Nothere@oroverthere.com to aus.cars on Sun Jan 4 10:19:18 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 03-Jan-26 9:17 PM, Daryl wrote:
    On 3/1/2026 7:27 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 3/01/2026 8:05 am, Daryl wrote:
    On 2/1/2026 8:16 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 30/12/2025 9:55 am, Clocky wrote:
    On 29/12/2025 5:49 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 29/12/2025 8:19 pm, Daryl wrote:
    On 29/12/2025 6:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    A week ago last Friday, the car fairy paid a visit, and, like >>>>>>>> all good fairies, left a present - a RAV4.

    It has only done one journey beyond the local area, a 25Km trip >>>>>>>> to our daughter's place for Xmas day, but the economy looks OK, >>>>>>>> usually in the low 5s, sometimes in the upper 4s. It's quite a >>>>>>>> change from the Mazda 3, apart from the driving position being >>>>>>>> significantly higher, things have moved on in the 10 years since >>>>>>>> we bought the M3.

    Not necessarily for the better IMO, too much electronics to go
    wrong, most of it is pretty reliable but can be a nightmare when >>>>>>> it isn't.

    **Bullshit. Electronics, in general, have improved car reliability >>>>>> dramatically.

    Absolute garbage. Most definitely not.

    -a-aI cite the example of EFI as one that has VASTLY improved
    almost every aspect of engine flexibility,

    Yeah that was many decades ago now and did vastly improve
    reliability but as time has gone on and countless modules and
    systems have been introduced for superfluous bullshit reliability
    has declined.

    And that's not just electronics - cost reduction, emission control
    systems, CRD and pushing engines to their limits etc have all
    contributed to a decline in long term reliability.



    **Bullshit. My FC Holden was pretty much buggered at around 100,000
    miles.

    Pretty much standard for those engines in those days.

    -a-aMy first Escort (1.3L) was headed for a major engine rebuild at
    around 100,000km.

    That is unusual, Kent engines are generally robust.

    **Robust, yes. Mine was diagnosed as requiring a new set of valve
    springs, along with a bunch of other stuff.

    Needing new valve springs at 100,00km says to me that the engine was
    abused in that it was held at high rpm too often, its also hardly a
    "major rebuild" its actually a simple job on those engines.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Yes engine abuse!. I got the impression from his
    recent posts that Mechanical empathy is *not* something that Trevor
    is/was Au Fait with!.
    Playing boy racer as he valve bounced his way around the countryside..;) >


    -a-aMy second Escort (1.6L pushrod) was a dud from day
    one, but it was headed for the scrapyard at around 100,000km.

    Also unusual.

    **The 1.6L pushrod was a heap of shit. Barely made more power than the
    1.3L, revved out to a pitiful 5,500RPM and Dieseled when turned off.
    There was no cure. Ford had a kludge, which didn't work. All in all,
    the 1.6L pushrod was a profoundly disappointing car. Particularly,
    since I had taken a 1.6L DOHC for a spin at the same time. WOW!

    Trying to remind what year that car would have been?
    Late 70's early 80's?
    If so that was around the time when emissions rules were new and many
    car makers struggled to meet emissions and still make decent power, many lost power so not really the fault of the engine.


    -a-aMy first
    2L SOHC Escort was a bit special. It actually lasted quite well,
    whilst proving me with huge enjoyment. Even at 100,000km, it was
    happily revving past 7,000RPM. Until it was written off by an idiot
    running a red.

    Also unusual because Pinto engines were just okay.

    **185kph. Redlined in top gear. Brilliant thing. I had a bit of a race
    with a GTV2000 once. I kept up with him, until 140kph, where he began
    to pull away. Not bad for a crappy old Escort. The 2L Escort
    desperately deserved a 5th cog. I could easily stay with my mate's
    4.1L Cortina. Until we hit a corner, of course. Then I left him for dead.

    I had an RS2000 for a couple of weeks in the early 80's, my memory was
    that it went rather well but compared to anything modern it was pretty
    slow.


    -a-aMy last Escort (2L) was a disappointment, but it lasted past
    150,000km. I actually managed to sell it. Then my VH Commodore came
    along. It lasted 175,000km before a complete engine swap (big
    mistake - Higginbottom disaster). That engine lasted another
    100,000km, before it died.

    Typical Holden of the day, could have been worse, you could have
    bought a VK piece of shit.

    -a-aAfter that, my VL. Never gave me a minute's problems. Sold with
    220,000km up. Then came my VP Commodore. Bits would fall off it and
    the paint was, well, barely paint, but it was generally quite
    reliable, until a tree branch (weighing an estimated 3 Tonnes)
    killed it at around 250,000km. Then I drove my partner's Ford
    Telstar. We sold it at 245,000km. It was running fine. I just
    couldn't get the air-con fixed. Then my Nissan Stagea. I sold it at
    245,000kms. I regularly receive texts from the purchaser, who is
    clocking up big kms in it. He loves it. As did I. It was a quite
    sophisticated car, electronically. Drive by wire, reversing camera,
    GPS, auto folding and tilting mirrors, etc, etc.

    All I can say is that cars are getting more reliable with each
    purchase. My Subaru Levorg has not given me a millisecond's trouble
    in 7 years. Of course, I've been using the same mechanic, or the guy
    who trained under that mechanic for many years. I trust him/them to
    ensure that my cars are reliable. In fact, when I purchased the VL,
    he swapped out the radiator cap on day one for a Toyota(?!) unit.

    LOL, you think that that is remarkable some how:-)

    **I mis-remembered. He swapped the radiator cap on my VP to prevent
    the radiator from failing. It worked.


    Sounds like a lower pressure cap which may have stopped the radiator
    failing but it lowered the coolants boiling point which isn't a great
    idea especially on a car notorious for cooling system issues.


    --
    Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea--Massive,
    difficult to redirect, awe inspiring, entertaining and a source of mind boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it!!!!. Gene Spafford
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Clocky@notgonna@happen.com to aus.cars on Sun Jan 4 08:07:22 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 3/01/2026 4:16 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 3/01/2026 6:46 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 2/01/2026 5:16 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 30/12/2025 9:55 am, Clocky wrote:
    On 29/12/2025 5:49 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 29/12/2025 8:19 pm, Daryl wrote:
    On 29/12/2025 6:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    A week ago last Friday, the car fairy paid a visit, and, like all >>>>>>> good fairies, left a present - a RAV4.

    It has only done one journey beyond the local area, a 25Km trip >>>>>>> to our daughter's place for Xmas day, but the economy looks OK, >>>>>>> usually in the low 5s, sometimes in the upper 4s. It's quite a
    change from the Mazda 3, apart from the driving position being
    significantly higher, things have moved on in the 10 years since >>>>>>> we bought the M3.

    Not necessarily for the better IMO, too much electronics to go
    wrong, most of it is pretty reliable but can be a nightmare when
    it isn't.

    **Bullshit. Electronics, in general, have improved car reliability
    dramatically.

    Absolute garbage. Most definitely not.

    -a-aI cite the example of EFI as one that has VASTLY improved
    almost every aspect of engine flexibility,

    Yeah that was many decades ago now and did vastly improve
    reliability but as time has gone on and countless modules and
    systems have been introduced for superfluous bullshit reliability
    has declined.

    And that's not just electronics - cost reduction, emission control
    systems, CRD and pushing engines to their limits etc have all
    contributed to a decline in long term reliability.



    **Bullshit. My FC Holden was pretty much buggered at around 100,000
    miles. My first Escort (1.3L) was headed for a major engine rebuild
    at around 100,000km. My second Escort (1.6L pushrod) was a dud from
    day one, but it was headed for the scrapyard at around 100,000km. My
    first 2L SOHC Escort was a bit special. It actually lasted quite
    well, whilst proving me with huge enjoyment. Even at 100,000km, it
    was happily revving past 7,000RPM. Until it was written off by an
    idiot running a red. My last Escort (2L) was a disappointment, but it
    lasted past 150,000km. I actually managed to sell it. Then my VH
    Commodore came along. It lasted 175,000km before a complete engine
    swap (big mistake - Higginbottom disaster). That engine lasted
    another 100,000km, before it died. After that, my VL. Never gave me a
    minute's problems.

    Yeah which proves my point when I said EFI did vastly improve
    reliability and that it was decades ago.

    The VL was ~40 years ago and EFI. It had it's issues too.
    Not the first Holden with EFI, that belongs to the VK and it's "black"
    Holden 3.3L with Bosch Jetronic EFI option. Economy and power
    improved, reliability, well not so much :-)


    -a-aSold with
    220,000km up. Then came my VP Commodore. Bits would fall off it and
    the paint was, well, barely paint, but it was generally quite
    reliable, until a tree branch (weighing an estimated 3 Tonnes) killed
    it at around 250,000km.


    Then I drove my partner's Ford Telstar. We sold it at
    245,000km. It was running fine.

    Early ones were shit.

    **Yep. I drove an early one. It felt like a truck. My partner's one was
    a 1989 model. A Ghia. It was a decent, comfortable, VERY reliable car.
    Best of all, when the clutch master and slave cylinders needed
    replacement, the total bill was around $600.00. At the same time my mate
    did the same job in his Jeep Compass (which used VW running gear). That
    cost him 3 Grand!


    1989 models were shit. Did a lot of head gasket on those.


    -a-aI just couldn't get the air-con fixed.
    Then my Nissan Stagea. I sold it at 245,000kms. I regularly receive
    texts from the purchaser, who is clocking up big kms in it. He loves
    it. As did I. It was a quite sophisticated car, electronically. Drive
    by wire, reversing camera, GPS, auto folding and tilting mirrors,
    etc, etc.


    Again, hardly new nor was it or anything special.

    **The ONLY people who say that about the 2001 Nissan Stagea, are those
    who have never driven one. Trust me: It was a very special car. Quick (enough), luxurious, feature laden and very good handling (51:49 weight distribution, AWD, independent suspension, etc, etc). Such a great car.
    In fact, one of my customers spotted it out the front one day and
    mentioned that he knew the car (which was unusual). I asked what he knew about it. He explained that he was married to a Japanese girl, whose
    father owned one. I was stunned and asked: "He STILL OWNS one?" He
    confirmed that was the case. VERY unusual in Japan, as it is very
    expensive to keep an old car. He explained that his father-in-law owned
    one back in the early 2000s, but sold it and moved to something else (I dunno what). He was so disappointed in the new car, then he tracked down
    a good, used Stagea and bought it. Great car. Don't forget, back in
    2001, they sold for something like 4.5 million Yen. Sold here, they
    would likely have approached AUS$100,000.00. Think: Lexus quality.


    Yeah a decent old car but again, nothing special. Did it have wing
    mirrors and the rust that often accompanied them typical of Jap import vehicles?


    All I can say is that cars are getting more reliable with each
    purchase. My Subaru Levorg has not given me a millisecond's trouble
    in 7 years. Of course, I've been using the same mechanic, or the guy
    who trained under that mechanic for many years. I trust him/them to
    ensure that my cars are reliable.

    The can only assure that they are well maintained. Reliability can't
    be assured.

    **Of course. When I mentioned to my mechanic that I thought a Fiat 595
    would make a nice weekend car, he screamed at me.

    -aThere were many optimally maintained Subaru's that suffered
    engine problems and CVT failures over fairly recent years.

    **Sure. I've read the same stories. I will remind you that those
    problems are mechanical ones and, I'm led to believe, that it is mostly
    due to the lack of regular service to the gearbox.


    Not at all. The CVT's had issues long before the service interval could
    have played any part. They were just shit.
    Ditto the engine problems.

    The Eyesight system has also been a bit problematic under certain
    conditions.

    **Nope. Under EXTREMELY heavy rain or EXTREMELY heavy fog, the Eyesight system won't work. That is not a fault. It's a fact of life and is dealt with in the manual. Frankly, anyone who drives quickly under such
    conditions and relies solely on instrumentation is a bit stupid, IMO. In
    8 years of owning the Subaru, my Eyesight system has ceased working 4
    times. Each time, it was VERY heavy rain or fog. It has never failed
    under any other conditions. Even what you would consider to be heavy rainfall, it works fine. That said, I would like to see Subaru augment
    the Eyesight system with radar.


    Afraid not Trev.

    https://www.eyesightsettlement.com/


    -a-aIn fact, when I purchased the VL, he swapped out the
    radiator cap on day one for a Toyota(?!) unit.


    I can assure you that that did not reposition the radiator or engine
    in the slightest :-)

    **Correct. And, come to think of it, it was the VP that had the radiator
    cap replaced. It was done to to prevent the constant radiator failures.


    Nope, there were no widespread radiator failures on VP let alone that
    could be prevented with a cap change.

    Are you sure you didn't own a Falcon?

    However, cracked heads in the VL is not the result of an electronics failure.


    CAS and coil failures leaving people stranded OTOH...
    --
    In thread "May need to buy petrol soon" Sept 23 2021 11:15:59am
    Keithr0 wrote: "He made the assertion either he proves it or he is a
    proven liar."

    On Sept 23 2021 3:16:29pm Keithr0 wrote:
    "He asserts that the claim is true, so, if it is unproven, he is lying."
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Clocky@notgonna@happen.com to aus.cars on Sun Jan 4 08:41:04 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 3/01/2026 7:05 pm, Noddy wrote:
    On 3/01/2026 4:27 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 3/01/2026 11:39 am, Clocky wrote:

    Come back keith!

    You said that you couldn't speak any English at the age of 9, well it
    would appear that you can't understand it even today.

    Interesting how his bullshit starts to unravel when he slips up like
    this :)

    He's exactly 10 years younger than I am, which means he'll be 53 on his
    next birthday.

    Bzzzzt. Nope. I wish I was turning 53 again.


    If I remember correctly he said he arrived in this
    country and started school here when he was 9 without being able to
    speak any English at all, which would make that around 1982.


    Bzzzzt. Another comprehension failure on your part. I said I couldn't
    speak a word of English when I was 9. I didn't say I was 9 when I
    started school here and it wasn't 1982 anyway.


    Yet in previous times when desperately trying to exert his authority
    into an argument, he claimed to have witnessed "Datsun 200B's rusting
    away in holding yards" while they were new cars waiting for delivery.


    Bzzzzt. Are you sure I said I "witnessed" it? I could have witnessed for
    more than one reason but are you sure I actually said that or are you fabricating that part?

    You are aware that you can know something without witnessing it yourself right?

    The only problem here is that the 200B was sold in Australian between
    1977 and 1981, and was done and dusted before he ever arrived here.

    How odd :)



    Odd that we owned a near new one then isn't it.

    Are you denying Datsuns of that era were rust buckets?
    --
    In thread "May need to buy petrol soon" Sept 23 2021 11:15:59am
    Keithr0 wrote: "He made the assertion either he proves it or he is a
    proven liar."

    On Sept 23 2021 3:16:29pm Keithr0 wrote:
    "He asserts that the claim is true, so, if it is unproven, he is lying."
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Xeno@xenolith@optusnet.com.au to aus.cars on Sun Jan 4 12:21:56 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 4/1/2026 11:07 am, Clocky wrote:
    On 3/01/2026 4:16 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 3/01/2026 6:46 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 2/01/2026 5:16 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 30/12/2025 9:55 am, Clocky wrote:
    On 29/12/2025 5:49 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 29/12/2025 8:19 pm, Daryl wrote:
    On 29/12/2025 6:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    A week ago last Friday, the car fairy paid a visit, and, like >>>>>>>> all good fairies, left a present - a RAV4.

    It has only done one journey beyond the local area, a 25Km trip >>>>>>>> to our daughter's place for Xmas day, but the economy looks OK, >>>>>>>> usually in the low 5s, sometimes in the upper 4s. It's quite a >>>>>>>> change from the Mazda 3, apart from the driving position being >>>>>>>> significantly higher, things have moved on in the 10 years since >>>>>>>> we bought the M3.

    Not necessarily for the better IMO, too much electronics to go
    wrong, most of it is pretty reliable but can be a nightmare when >>>>>>> it isn't.

    **Bullshit. Electronics, in general, have improved car reliability >>>>>> dramatically.

    Absolute garbage. Most definitely not.

    -a-aI cite the example of EFI as one that has VASTLY improved
    almost every aspect of engine flexibility,

    Yeah that was many decades ago now and did vastly improve
    reliability but as time has gone on and countless modules and
    systems have been introduced for superfluous bullshit reliability
    has declined.

    And that's not just electronics - cost reduction, emission control
    systems, CRD and pushing engines to their limits etc have all
    contributed to a decline in long term reliability.



    **Bullshit. My FC Holden was pretty much buggered at around 100,000
    miles. My first Escort (1.3L) was headed for a major engine rebuild
    at around 100,000km. My second Escort (1.6L pushrod) was a dud from
    day one, but it was headed for the scrapyard at around 100,000km. My
    first 2L SOHC Escort was a bit special. It actually lasted quite
    well, whilst proving me with huge enjoyment. Even at 100,000km, it
    was happily revving past 7,000RPM. Until it was written off by an
    idiot running a red. My last Escort (2L) was a disappointment, but
    it lasted past 150,000km. I actually managed to sell it. Then my VH
    Commodore came along. It lasted 175,000km before a complete engine
    swap (big mistake - Higginbottom disaster). That engine lasted
    another 100,000km, before it died. After that, my VL. Never gave me
    a minute's problems.

    Yeah which proves my point when I said EFI did vastly improve
    reliability and that it was decades ago.

    The VL was ~40 years ago and EFI. It had it's issues too.
    Not the first Holden with EFI, that belongs to the VK and it's
    "black" Holden 3.3L with Bosch Jetronic EFI option. Economy and power
    improved, reliability, well not so much :-)


    -a-aSold with
    220,000km up. Then came my VP Commodore. Bits would fall off it and
    the paint was, well, barely paint, but it was generally quite
    reliable, until a tree branch (weighing an estimated 3 Tonnes)
    killed it at around 250,000km.


    Then I drove my partner's Ford Telstar. We sold it at
    245,000km. It was running fine.

    Early ones were shit.

    **Yep. I drove an early one. It felt like a truck. My partner's one
    was a 1989 model. A Ghia. It was a decent, comfortable, VERY reliable
    car. Best of all, when the clutch master and slave cylinders needed
    replacement, the total bill was around $600.00. At the same time my
    mate did the same job in his Jeep Compass (which used VW running
    gear). That cost him 3 Grand!


    1989 models were shit. Did a lot of head gasket on those.

    Did you mean Jeep 1989 models? IIRC, you didn't need to overheat one
    very much to get the head to warp.


    -a-aI just couldn't get the air-con fixed.
    Then my Nissan Stagea. I sold it at 245,000kms. I regularly receive
    texts from the purchaser, who is clocking up big kms in it. He loves
    it. As did I. It was a quite sophisticated car, electronically.
    Drive by wire, reversing camera, GPS, auto folding and tilting
    mirrors, etc, etc.


    Again, hardly new nor was it or anything special.

    **The ONLY people who say that about the 2001 Nissan Stagea, are those
    who have never driven one. Trust me: It was a very special car. Quick
    (enough), luxurious, feature laden and very good handling (51:49
    weight distribution, AWD, independent suspension, etc, etc). Such a
    great car. In fact, one of my customers spotted it out the front one
    day and mentioned that he knew the car (which was unusual). I asked
    what he knew about it. He explained that he was married to a Japanese
    girl, whose father owned one. I was stunned and asked: "He STILL OWNS
    one?" He confirmed that was the case. VERY unusual in Japan, as it is
    very expensive to keep an old car. He explained that his father-in-law
    owned one back in the early 2000s, but sold it and moved to something
    else (I dunno what). He was so disappointed in the new car, then he
    tracked down a good, used Stagea and bought it. Great car. Don't
    forget, back in 2001, they sold for something like 4.5 million Yen.
    Sold here, they would likely have approached AUS$100,000.00. Think:
    Lexus quality.


    Yeah a decent old car but again, nothing special. Did it have wing
    mirrors and the rust that often accompanied them typical of Jap import vehicles?

    Indeed, a lot of the domestic market Japanese cars were designed around
    a *very short operational life*,


    All I can say is that cars are getting more reliable with each
    purchase. My Subaru Levorg has not given me a millisecond's trouble
    in 7 years. Of course, I've been using the same mechanic, or the guy
    who trained under that mechanic for many years. I trust him/them to
    ensure that my cars are reliable.

    The can only assure that they are well maintained. Reliability can't
    be assured.

    **Of course. When I mentioned to my mechanic that I thought a Fiat 595
    would make a nice weekend car, he screamed at me.

    -a-aThere were many optimally maintained Subaru's that suffered
    engine problems and CVT failures over fairly recent years.

    **Sure. I've read the same stories. I will remind you that those
    problems are mechanical ones and, I'm led to believe, that it is
    mostly due to the lack of regular service to the gearbox.


    Not at all. The CVT's had issues long before the service interval could
    have played any part. They were just shit.
    Ditto the engine problems.

    Jatco CVTs were way worse than the Subaru CVTs for reliability. Even the
    basic concepts are different. Subaru uses a chain on the variators
    whereas Jatco use the pushbelt. Most issues with Subaru CVTs are *NOT*
    in the variators or chains, they are in the TCC and the valve associated
    with the TCC. The TCC is an expensive fix (TCC replacement) as is the associated solenoid valve (complete valve body replacement). Issues with
    chain slippage do occur but they are rare and usually fixed under
    warranty. Same with main bearing issues, rare. Typically it was the
    first two year models of Subaru CVT that had issues and Subaru issued
    mods to rectify these.

    FWIW, I'd have a Subaru CVT, I would never own a car with a Jatco CVT
    since they can fail right off the showroom floor. POS!

    The Eyesight system has also been a bit problematic under certain
    conditions.

    **Nope. Under EXTREMELY heavy rain or EXTREMELY heavy fog, the
    Eyesight system won't work. That is not a fault. It's a fact of life
    and is dealt with in the manual. Frankly, anyone who drives quickly
    under such conditions and relies solely on instrumentation is a bit
    stupid, IMO. In 8 years of owning the Subaru, my Eyesight system has
    ceased working 4 times. Each time, it was VERY heavy rain or fog. It
    has never failed under any other conditions. Even what you would
    consider to be heavy rainfall, it works fine. That said, I would like
    to see Subaru augment the Eyesight system with radar.


    Afraid not Trev.

    https://www.eyesightsettlement.com/


    -a-aIn fact, when I purchased the VL, he swapped out the
    radiator cap on day one for a Toyota(?!) unit.


    I can assure you that that did not reposition the radiator or engine
    in the slightest :-)

    **Correct. And, come to think of it, it was the VP that had the
    radiator cap replaced. It was done to to prevent the constant radiator
    failures.


    Nope, there were no widespread radiator failures on VP let alone that
    could be prevented with a cap change.

    Maybe it was a reduced pressure cap? Higher pressure? That might trigger
    other issues however.

    Are you sure you didn't own a Falcon?

    However, cracked heads in the VL is not the result of an electronics
    failure.


    CAS and coil failures leaving people stranded OTOH...

    When the Commodore incorporated the electronic ignition module, my
    friend kept a spare in his glovebox. It remained there for nigh on 20
    years until one day as he was exiting the freeway at an off-ramp, the
    engine died. He did a quick diagnosis, swapped in the spare, and was on
    his way again in minutes.
    --
    Xeno

    Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
    (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Noddy@me@home.com to aus.cars on Sun Jan 4 12:34:44 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 4/01/2026 10:19 am, jonz wrote:
    On 03-Jan-26 9:17 PM, Daryl wrote:

    Needing new valve springs at 100,00km says to me that the engine was
    abused in that it was held at high rpm too often, its also hardly a
    "major rebuild" its actually a simple job on those engines.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    -aYes engine abuse!. I got the impression from his
    -arecent posts that Mechanical empathy is *not* something that Trevor is/was Au Fait with!.
    -a-a-a-a-a Playing boy racer as he valve bounced his way around the countryside..;) >

    Lol :)

    I think he commented that one of his Escorts would see 7500rpm, and if
    so we can see what the consequence of that was :)
    --
    --
    --
    Regards,
    Noddy.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Noddy@me@home.com to aus.cars on Sun Jan 4 12:37:03 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 4/01/2026 11:41 am, Clocky wrote:
    On 3/01/2026 7:05 pm, Noddy wrote:

    Yet in previous times when desperately trying to exert his authority
    into an argument, he claimed to have witnessed "Datsun 200B's rusting
    away in holding yards" while they were new cars waiting for delivery.


    Bzzzzt. Are you sure I said I "witnessed" it? I could have witnessed for more than one reason but are you sure I actually said that or are you fabricating that part?

    Forget it Jerky. Your bullshit has been noted. Just like how you
    squeeled when trying to claim you never said you used straps to hold unbalanced cars on hoists, until your mental mate threw you a life saver.

    Maybe that's why you two incompetent cunts are so much in love :)
    --
    --
    --
    Regards,
    Noddy.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Clocky@notgonna@happen.com to aus.cars on Sun Jan 4 09:38:19 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 3/01/2026 8:52 pm, alvey wrote:
    Noddy wrote:
    On 3/01/2026 12:38 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 2/01/2026 6:46 pm, Noddy wrote:

    Yeah, that's right. Like people who, when an intermittent fault with
    an error code that cannot be retrieved can't get the fault to occur
    when they're looking at the vehicle do a bit of lateral thinking and
    swap parts around to see if the fault follows the swap the next time
    it occurs which will positively identify the cause.


    LOL, lateral thinking back to the 70's and all you know - part
    swapping in hope and ignorance.

    No goose, you failed to realise that an intermittent fault of that
    nature can easily be diagnosed by a tool that you had in your arsenal
    - and you literally said that you didn't even plug it in.

    Noddy on April 15 2023 wrote;

    "I never bothered plugging my scan tool in in the first place"

    Yeah, that's right. I never bothered plugging a scan tool into the car
    because the fault code had been cleared the thing gone through the
    minimum number of start cycles without it reoccurring which meant the
    code had been permanently deleted, and despite your nonsensical claims
    there was no hope of it ever being retrieved.

    None. That's why I thought outside the box and did what I did, and it
    proved to be a very successful idea.

    You forgot something at the beginning Fraudster. You know, "Once upon a time..."

    hth



    100%. It's the biggest load of fucking cope he's ever posted.

    He had absolutely no idea what he was doing and his story makes
    absolutely no sense at all which gives weight to the theory that he made
    up a scenario where he thought he could play the hero without realising
    that what he posted only made him look grossly incompetent.

    The moron thinks Tech 2 isn't an OBD-II scanner FFS... *anyone* can
    verify that as a statement of pure ignorance.
    --
    In thread "May need to buy petrol soon" Sept 23 2021 11:15:59am
    Keithr0 wrote: "He made the assertion either he proves it or he is a
    proven liar."

    On Sept 23 2021 3:16:29pm Keithr0 wrote:
    "He asserts that the claim is true, so, if it is unproven, he is lying."
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Clocky@notgonna@happen.com to aus.cars on Sun Jan 4 09:40:21 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 3/01/2026 8:18 pm, alvey wrote:
    Noddy wrote:
    On 3/01/2026 12:54 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 2/01/2026 9:03 pm, Noddy wrote:

    Interesting, my RAV is an AWD, and there appears to be a spare
    right there under the boot. I can take a picture of it if you like.

    Lol :)

    Reality shooting holes in his bullshit yet *again*. Jeez, you'd
    reckon mental case would have learnt his lesson and had enough by
    now.... :)



    Yet another basic English comprehension fail. Let me educate you.

    "If it is AWD, likely no spare."

    Key word *likely*.

    Yet you incorrectly interpreted that as the absolute statement;

    "If it is AWD, no spare."

    Do you understand?

    ROTFL :)

    I love it when you get all high and mighty and correct the wrong
    person :)

    Whereas the unintended humour of your feeble attempts at evasion has
    long since left the building.


    It's pathetic.
    --
    In thread "May need to buy petrol soon" Sept 23 2021 11:15:59am
    Keithr0 wrote: "He made the assertion either he proves it or he is a
    proven liar."

    On Sept 23 2021 3:16:29pm Keithr0 wrote:
    "He asserts that the claim is true, so, if it is unproven, he is lying."
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From alvey@Hans.Andnees@gmail.com to aus.cars on Sun Jan 4 12:17:19 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    Noddy wrote:
    On 4/01/2026 11:41 am, Clocky wrote:
    On 3/01/2026 7:05 pm, Noddy wrote:

    Yet in previous times when desperately trying to exert his authority
    into an argument, he claimed to have witnessed "Datsun 200B's rusting
    away in holding yards" while they were new cars waiting for delivery.


    Bzzzzt. Are you sure I said I "witnessed" it? I could have witnessed
    for more than one reason but are you sure I actually said that or are
    you fabricating that part?

    Tough call. But anyhow Fraudster, given your vast back-catalogue of
    lies, comprehension fails and whacking great errors, you really should
    supply a link when... well, whenever you're claiming *anything*.

    hth


    Forget it Jerky. Your bullshit has been noted. Just like how you
    squeeled when trying to claim you never said you used straps to hold unbalanced cars on hoists, until your mental mate threw you a life saver.

    lol!
    Fraudster, bombarded with heavy artillery, returns fire with his empty
    Biro case and a piece of rice. Way to go Buffo.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From keithr0@me@bugger.off.com.au to aus.cars on Sun Jan 4 15:01:18 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 3/01/2026 4:11 pm, Clocky wrote:

    Nothing of any importance.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From keithr0@me@bugger.off.com.au to aus.cars on Sun Jan 4 17:53:16 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 3/01/2026 4:14 pm, Clocky wrote:

    Nothing worth bothering about.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Clocky@notgonna@happen.com to aus.cars on Sun Jan 4 17:33:00 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 3/01/2026 4:34 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 2/01/2026 9:24 pm, Noddy wrote:
    On 2/01/2026 7:52 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 30/12/2025 10:46 am, Noddy wrote:

    Not at all. I still own vehicles that have points ignition systems
    and carburettors. They're generally not anywhere near as problematic
    as you make them out to be,

    **Yes, they are.

    No Trevor, they are not.
    **Of course they are. I have NEVER had an issue with the ignition on any
    EFI equipped car I've owned. OTOH, I have adjusted/replaced points many times.


    EFI *specifically* made cars more reliable, more efficient and more
    powerful (though some of the very early EFI systems also had reliability issues).

    However, to broadly suggest that mechanical distributors, points, low
    energy ignition systems and carbs were just as reliable as EFI is laughable.
    --
    In thread "May need to buy petrol soon" Sept 23 2021 11:15:59am
    Keithr0 wrote: "He made the assertion either he proves it or he is a
    proven liar."

    On Sept 23 2021 3:16:29pm Keithr0 wrote:
    "He asserts that the claim is true, so, if it is unproven, he is lying."
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Trevor Wilson@trevor@rageaudio.com.au to aus.cars on Sun Jan 4 20:48:37 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 4/01/2026 11:07 am, Clocky wrote:
    On 3/01/2026 4:16 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 3/01/2026 6:46 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 2/01/2026 5:16 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 30/12/2025 9:55 am, Clocky wrote:
    On 29/12/2025 5:49 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 29/12/2025 8:19 pm, Daryl wrote:
    On 29/12/2025 6:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    A week ago last Friday, the car fairy paid a visit, and, like >>>>>>>> all good fairies, left a present - a RAV4.

    It has only done one journey beyond the local area, a 25Km trip >>>>>>>> to our daughter's place for Xmas day, but the economy looks OK, >>>>>>>> usually in the low 5s, sometimes in the upper 4s. It's quite a >>>>>>>> change from the Mazda 3, apart from the driving position being >>>>>>>> significantly higher, things have moved on in the 10 years since >>>>>>>> we bought the M3.

    Not necessarily for the better IMO, too much electronics to go
    wrong, most of it is pretty reliable but can be a nightmare when >>>>>>> it isn't.

    **Bullshit. Electronics, in general, have improved car reliability >>>>>> dramatically.

    Absolute garbage. Most definitely not.

    -a-aI cite the example of EFI as one that has VASTLY improved
    almost every aspect of engine flexibility,

    Yeah that was many decades ago now and did vastly improve
    reliability but as time has gone on and countless modules and
    systems have been introduced for superfluous bullshit reliability
    has declined.

    And that's not just electronics - cost reduction, emission control
    systems, CRD and pushing engines to their limits etc have all
    contributed to a decline in long term reliability.



    **Bullshit. My FC Holden was pretty much buggered at around 100,000
    miles. My first Escort (1.3L) was headed for a major engine rebuild
    at around 100,000km. My second Escort (1.6L pushrod) was a dud from
    day one, but it was headed for the scrapyard at around 100,000km. My
    first 2L SOHC Escort was a bit special. It actually lasted quite
    well, whilst proving me with huge enjoyment. Even at 100,000km, it
    was happily revving past 7,000RPM. Until it was written off by an
    idiot running a red. My last Escort (2L) was a disappointment, but
    it lasted past 150,000km. I actually managed to sell it. Then my VH
    Commodore came along. It lasted 175,000km before a complete engine
    swap (big mistake - Higginbottom disaster). That engine lasted
    another 100,000km, before it died. After that, my VL. Never gave me
    a minute's problems.

    Yeah which proves my point when I said EFI did vastly improve
    reliability and that it was decades ago.

    The VL was ~40 years ago and EFI. It had it's issues too.
    Not the first Holden with EFI, that belongs to the VK and it's
    "black" Holden 3.3L with Bosch Jetronic EFI option. Economy and power
    improved, reliability, well not so much :-)


    -a-aSold with
    220,000km up. Then came my VP Commodore. Bits would fall off it and
    the paint was, well, barely paint, but it was generally quite
    reliable, until a tree branch (weighing an estimated 3 Tonnes)
    killed it at around 250,000km.


    Then I drove my partner's Ford Telstar. We sold it at
    245,000km. It was running fine.

    Early ones were shit.

    **Yep. I drove an early one. It felt like a truck. My partner's one
    was a 1989 model. A Ghia. It was a decent, comfortable, VERY reliable
    car. Best of all, when the clutch master and slave cylinders needed
    replacement, the total bill was around $600.00. At the same time my
    mate did the same job in his Jeep Compass (which used VW running
    gear). That cost him 3 Grand!


    1989 models were shit. Did a lot of head gasket on those.

    **I guess we were lucky.



    -a-aI just couldn't get the air-con fixed.
    Then my Nissan Stagea. I sold it at 245,000kms. I regularly receive
    texts from the purchaser, who is clocking up big kms in it. He loves
    it. As did I. It was a quite sophisticated car, electronically.
    Drive by wire, reversing camera, GPS, auto folding and tilting
    mirrors, etc, etc.


    Again, hardly new nor was it or anything special.

    **The ONLY people who say that about the 2001 Nissan Stagea, are those
    who have never driven one. Trust me: It was a very special car. Quick
    (enough), luxurious, feature laden and very good handling (51:49
    weight distribution, AWD, independent suspension, etc, etc). Such a
    great car. In fact, one of my customers spotted it out the front one
    day and mentioned that he knew the car (which was unusual). I asked
    what he knew about it. He explained that he was married to a Japanese
    girl, whose father owned one. I was stunned and asked: "He STILL OWNS
    one?" He confirmed that was the case. VERY unusual in Japan, as it is
    very expensive to keep an old car. He explained that his father-in-law
    owned one back in the early 2000s, but sold it and moved to something
    else (I dunno what). He was so disappointed in the new car, then he
    tracked down a good, used Stagea and bought it. Great car. Don't
    forget, back in 2001, they sold for something like 4.5 million Yen.
    Sold here, they would likely have approached AUS$100,000.00. Think:
    Lexus quality.


    Yeah a decent old car but again, nothing special. Did it have wing
    mirrors and the rust that often accompanied them typical of Jap import vehicles?

    **Of course not. Despite spending at least 15 years of it's life not
    garaged, there was zero rust anywhere and the paintwork was still is
    superb condition.

    "Nothing special"? Clearly you have yet to drive (a good) one. I can
    list several people who have owned one, then stepped back into one,
    after realising what a great old car they are.



    All I can say is that cars are getting more reliable with each
    purchase. My Subaru Levorg has not given me a millisecond's trouble
    in 7 years. Of course, I've been using the same mechanic, or the guy
    who trained under that mechanic for many years. I trust him/them to
    ensure that my cars are reliable.

    The can only assure that they are well maintained. Reliability can't
    be assured.

    **Of course. When I mentioned to my mechanic that I thought a Fiat 595
    would make a nice weekend car, he screamed at me.

    -a-aThere were many optimally maintained Subaru's that suffered
    engine problems and CVT failures over fairly recent years.

    **Sure. I've read the same stories. I will remind you that those
    problems are mechanical ones and, I'm led to believe, that it is
    mostly due to the lack of regular service to the gearbox.


    Not at all. The CVT's had issues long before the service interval could
    have played any part. They were just shit.
    Ditto the engine problems.

    The Eyesight system has also been a bit problematic under certain
    conditions.

    **Nope. Under EXTREMELY heavy rain or EXTREMELY heavy fog, the
    Eyesight system won't work. That is not a fault. It's a fact of life
    and is dealt with in the manual. Frankly, anyone who drives quickly
    under such conditions and relies solely on instrumentation is a bit
    stupid, IMO. In 8 years of owning the Subaru, my Eyesight system has
    ceased working 4 times. Each time, it was VERY heavy rain or fog. It
    has never failed under any other conditions. Even what you would
    consider to be heavy rainfall, it works fine. That said, I would like
    to see Subaru augment the Eyesight system with radar.


    Afraid not Trev.

    https://www.eyesightsettlement.com/

    **The only time/s that my Eyesight system has failed is during VERY
    heavy rain or heavy fog. And, like I said, driving quickly under such condition requires an extreme level of stupidity.



    -a-aIn fact, when I purchased the VL, he swapped out the
    radiator cap on day one for a Toyota(?!) unit.


    I can assure you that that did not reposition the radiator or engine
    in the slightest :-)

    **Correct. And, come to think of it, it was the VP that had the
    radiator cap replaced. It was done to to prevent the constant radiator
    failures.


    Nope, there were no widespread radiator failures on VP let alone that
    could be prevented with a cap change.

    Are you sure you didn't own a Falcon?

    **Never.


    However, cracked heads in the VL is not the result of an electronics
    failure.


    CAS and coil failures leaving people stranded OTOH...

    **Sure. As can any number of mechanical faults.
    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Trevor Wilson@trevor@rageaudio.com.au to aus.cars on Sun Jan 4 20:52:07 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 4/01/2026 12:34 pm, Noddy wrote:
    On 4/01/2026 10:19 am, jonz wrote:
    On 03-Jan-26 9:17 PM, Daryl wrote:

    Needing new valve springs at 100,00km says to me that the engine was
    abused in that it was held at high rpm too often, its also hardly a
    "major rebuild" its actually a simple job on those engines.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    -a-aYes engine abuse!. I got the impression from his
    -a-arecent posts that Mechanical empathy is *not* something that Trevor
    is/was Au Fait with!.
    -a-a-a-a-a-a Playing boy racer as he valve bounced his way around the
    countryside..;) >

    Lol :)

    I think he commented that one of his Escorts would see 7500rpm, and if
    so we can see what the consequence of that was :)


    **It provided me with many years of enjoyable motoring, until it was
    written off by an idiot running a red. It was fortunate that I wasn't
    carrying a passenger. My next 2L Escort was no where near as good.
    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Trevor Wilson@trevor@rageaudio.com.au to aus.cars on Sun Jan 4 20:56:48 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 3/01/2026 9:17 pm, Daryl wrote:
    On 3/1/2026 7:27 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 3/01/2026 8:05 am, Daryl wrote:
    On 2/1/2026 8:16 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 30/12/2025 9:55 am, Clocky wrote:
    On 29/12/2025 5:49 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 29/12/2025 8:19 pm, Daryl wrote:
    On 29/12/2025 6:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    A week ago last Friday, the car fairy paid a visit, and, like >>>>>>>> all good fairies, left a present - a RAV4.

    It has only done one journey beyond the local area, a 25Km trip >>>>>>>> to our daughter's place for Xmas day, but the economy looks OK, >>>>>>>> usually in the low 5s, sometimes in the upper 4s. It's quite a >>>>>>>> change from the Mazda 3, apart from the driving position being >>>>>>>> significantly higher, things have moved on in the 10 years since >>>>>>>> we bought the M3.

    Not necessarily for the better IMO, too much electronics to go
    wrong, most of it is pretty reliable but can be a nightmare when >>>>>>> it isn't.

    **Bullshit. Electronics, in general, have improved car reliability >>>>>> dramatically.

    Absolute garbage. Most definitely not.

    -a-aI cite the example of EFI as one that has VASTLY improved
    almost every aspect of engine flexibility,

    Yeah that was many decades ago now and did vastly improve
    reliability but as time has gone on and countless modules and
    systems have been introduced for superfluous bullshit reliability
    has declined.

    And that's not just electronics - cost reduction, emission control
    systems, CRD and pushing engines to their limits etc have all
    contributed to a decline in long term reliability.



    **Bullshit. My FC Holden was pretty much buggered at around 100,000
    miles.

    Pretty much standard for those engines in those days.

    -a-aMy first Escort (1.3L) was headed for a major engine rebuild at
    around 100,000km.

    That is unusual, Kent engines are generally robust.

    **Robust, yes. Mine was diagnosed as requiring a new set of valve
    springs, along with a bunch of other stuff.

    Needing new valve springs at 100,00km says to me that the engine was
    abused in that it was held at high rpm too often, its also hardly a
    "major rebuild" its actually a simple job on those engines.

    **Very likely, but the car was well past it's use-by date in many areas.




    -a-aMy second Escort (1.6L pushrod) was a dud from day
    one, but it was headed for the scrapyard at around 100,000km.

    Also unusual.

    **The 1.6L pushrod was a heap of shit. Barely made more power than the
    1.3L, revved out to a pitiful 5,500RPM and Dieseled when turned off.
    There was no cure. Ford had a kludge, which didn't work. All in all,
    the 1.6L pushrod was a profoundly disappointing car. Particularly,
    since I had taken a 1.6L DOHC for a spin at the same time. WOW!

    Trying to remind what year that car would have been?
    Late 70's early 80's?

    **1976.

    If so that was around the time when emissions rules were new and many
    car makers struggled to meet emissions and still make decent power, many lost power so not really the fault of the engine.

    **Yes, it was. It was a dog of an engine. Ford knew it, but sold them
    anyway. I recall buying a service manual for the car to see what was
    going on. The manual covered the 1.6L and the 2L. The number of pipes
    and shit in the 1.6L dwarfed what was in the 2L. It seems that the 2L
    was an inherently cleaner running engine, as it didn't require all the
    kludges fitted by Ford to make it compliant. The 2L was more economical
    than the 1.6L too.



    -a-aMy first
    2L SOHC Escort was a bit special. It actually lasted quite well,
    whilst proving me with huge enjoyment. Even at 100,000km, it was
    happily revving past 7,000RPM. Until it was written off by an idiot
    running a red.

    Also unusual because Pinto engines were just okay.

    **185kph. Redlined in top gear. Brilliant thing. I had a bit of a race
    with a GTV2000 once. I kept up with him, until 140kph, where he began
    to pull away. Not bad for a crappy old Escort. The 2L Escort
    desperately deserved a 5th cog. I could easily stay with my mate's
    4.1L Cortina. Until we hit a corner, of course. Then I left him for dead.

    I had an RS2000 for a couple of weeks in the early 80's, my memory was
    that it went rather well but compared to anything modern it was pretty
    slow.

    **Duh. Compared to most things in 1976, the 2L Escort was pretty damned decent.



    -a-aMy last Escort (2L) was a disappointment, but it lasted past
    150,000km. I actually managed to sell it. Then my VH Commodore came
    along. It lasted 175,000km before a complete engine swap (big
    mistake - Higginbottom disaster). That engine lasted another
    100,000km, before it died.

    Typical Holden of the day, could have been worse, you could have
    bought a VK piece of shit.

    -a-aAfter that, my VL. Never gave me a minute's problems. Sold with
    220,000km up. Then came my VP Commodore. Bits would fall off it and
    the paint was, well, barely paint, but it was generally quite
    reliable, until a tree branch (weighing an estimated 3 Tonnes)
    killed it at around 250,000km. Then I drove my partner's Ford
    Telstar. We sold it at 245,000km. It was running fine. I just
    couldn't get the air-con fixed. Then my Nissan Stagea. I sold it at
    245,000kms. I regularly receive texts from the purchaser, who is
    clocking up big kms in it. He loves it. As did I. It was a quite
    sophisticated car, electronically. Drive by wire, reversing camera,
    GPS, auto folding and tilting mirrors, etc, etc.

    All I can say is that cars are getting more reliable with each
    purchase. My Subaru Levorg has not given me a millisecond's trouble
    in 7 years. Of course, I've been using the same mechanic, or the guy
    who trained under that mechanic for many years. I trust him/them to
    ensure that my cars are reliable. In fact, when I purchased the VL,
    he swapped out the radiator cap on day one for a Toyota(?!) unit.

    LOL, you think that that is remarkable some how:-)

    **I mis-remembered. He swapped the radiator cap on my VP to prevent
    the radiator from failing. It worked.


    Sounds like a lower pressure cap which may have stopped the radiator
    failing but it lowered the coolants boiling point which isn't a great
    idea especially on a car notorious for cooling system issues.

    **It solved my radiator problems.
    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com
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  • From Noddy@me@home.com to aus.cars on Sun Jan 4 21:30:43 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 4/01/2026 8:48 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 4/01/2026 11:07 am, Clocky wrote:

    1989 models were shit. Did a lot of head gasket on those.

    **I guess we were lucky.

    I keep telling ya :)
    --
    --
    --
    Regards,
    Noddy.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Noddy@me@home.com to aus.cars on Sun Jan 4 21:32:02 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 4/01/2026 8:33 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 3/01/2026 4:34 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:

    EFI *specifically* made cars more reliable, more efficient and more
    powerful (though some of the very early EFI systems also had reliability issues).

    However, to broadly suggest that mechanical distributors, points, low
    energy ignition systems and carbs were just as reliable as EFI is
    laughable.

    You wouldn't know Junior. They are before your time :)
    --
    --
    --
    Regards,
    Noddy.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Noddy@me@home.com to aus.cars on Sun Jan 4 21:34:07 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 4/01/2026 8:52 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 4/01/2026 12:34 pm, Noddy wrote:

    I think he commented that one of his Escorts would see 7500rpm, and if
    so we can see what the consequence of that was :)


    **It provided me with many years of enjoyable motoring, until it was
    written off by an idiot running a red. It was fortunate that I wasn't carrying a passenger. My next 2L Escort was no where near as good.

    The point being Trev that *that* kind of use is well beyond the normal operating range of the engine, and things like valve spring failure is a consequence of it.

    The Kent engine was a great little engine, but it was never designed to
    see 7500rpm out of the box in *any* of it's forms.
    --
    --
    --
    Regards,
    Noddy.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Noddy@me@home.com to aus.cars on Sun Jan 4 21:39:42 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 4/01/2026 12:38 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 3/01/2026 8:52 pm, alvey wrote:

    100%. It's the biggest load of fucking cope he's ever posted.

    He had absolutely no idea what he was doing and his story makes
    absolutely no sense at all which gives weight to the theory that he made
    up a scenario where he thought he could play the hero without realising
    that what he posted only made him look grossly incompetent.

    Makes no sense at all, huh? So the idea of swapping a a known good part
    for a suspected flaky one, which is a recommended procedure in many
    factory shop manuals, makes no sense to you?

    Yeah. sorry, I forgot. You're the fucking idiot who can't blow an air
    cleaner element out with compressed air without fucking it, and instead
    insist that banging one on a workbench is the only "safe" way to clean one.

    I can't imagine anyone more utterly *clueless* than you are. No wonder
    someone with all the claimed specialist qualification you have makes his living as a fucking accessory fitter, which is one up from working in a
    tyre shop :)
    --
    --
    --
    Regards,
    Noddy.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From alvey@Factman@gmail.com to aus.cars on Sun Jan 4 20:51:44 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    Noddy wrote:
    On 4/01/2026 8:33 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 3/01/2026 4:34 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:

    EFI *specifically* made cars more reliable, more efficient and more
    powerful (though some of the very early EFI systems also had
    reliability issues).

    However, to broadly suggest that mechanical distributors, points, low
    energy ignition systems and carbs were just as reliable as EFI is
    laughable.

    You wouldn't know Junior. They are before your time :)

    And you've never, ever pronounced on something that was "before your
    time" eh? What a buffoon you are.
    --
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  • From Xeno@xenolith@optusnet.com.au to aus.cars on Sun Jan 4 21:54:25 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 4/1/2026 9:30 pm, Noddy wrote:
    On 4/01/2026 8:48 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 4/01/2026 11:07 am, Clocky wrote:

    1989 models were shit. Did a lot of head gasket on those.

    **I guess we were lucky.

    I keep telling ya lies :)


    I fixed it for you Darren. Now it's 100% accurate!
    --
    Xeno

    Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
    (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From alvey@Factman@gmail.com to aus.cars on Sun Jan 4 21:07:56 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    Noddy wrote:
    On 4/01/2026 12:38 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 3/01/2026 8:52 pm, alvey wrote:

    100%. It's the biggest load of fucking cope he's ever posted.

    He had absolutely no idea what he was doing and his story makes
    absolutely no sense at all which gives weight to the theory that he
    made up a scenario where he thought he could play the hero without
    realising that what he posted only made him look grossly incompetent.

    Makes no sense at all, huh? So the idea of swapping a a known good part
    for a suspected flaky one, which is a recommended procedure in many
    factory shop manuals, makes no sense to you?

    Yeah. sorry, I forgot. You're the fucking idiot who can't blow an air cleaner element out with compressed air without fucking it, and instead insist that banging one on a workbench is the only "safe" way to clean one.

    I can't imagine anyone more utterly *clueless* than you are.

    Which is seriously odd considering that you *can* imagine yourself as a successful business owner, qualified spanner user, hard man, drag racer, Grange owner, Guitar owning muso, pub bouncer etc etc etc.
    --
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  • From keithr0@me@bugger.off.com.au to aus.cars on Sun Jan 4 21:14:01 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 4/01/2026 10:41 am, Clocky wrote:

    Bzzzzt. Another comprehension failure on your part. I said I couldn't
    speak a word of English when I was 9. I didn't say I was 9 when I
    started school here and it wasn't 1982 anyway.

    That seems odd, I've visited the land of your birth several times, and
    have rarely met anybody who couldn't speak English. I've asked a couple
    of them why that is, the answer always was that they started learning it
    as soon as they started school. So, I would have thought that, unless
    you were particularly thick, you'd have at least a basic understanding
    of English after at least 3 years of school.


    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Noddy@me@home.com to aus.cars on Sun Jan 4 22:24:38 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 4/01/2026 10:14 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 4/01/2026 10:41 am, Clocky wrote:

    Bzzzzt. Another comprehension failure on your part. I said I couldn't
    speak a word of English when I was 9. I didn't say I was 9 when I
    started school here and it wasn't 1982 anyway.

    That seems odd, I've visited the land of your birth several times, and
    have rarely met anybody who couldn't speak English. I've asked a couple
    of them why that is, the answer always was that they started learning it
    as soon as they started school. So, I would have thought that, unless
    you were particularly thick, you'd have at least a basic understanding
    of English after at least 3 years of school.

    It's getting to the point where you can't believe a word the bloke says.
    Just like his mental mate.

    Must be something about the Dutch :)
    --
    --
    --
    Regards,
    Noddy.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Xeno@xenolith@optusnet.com.au to aus.cars on Sun Jan 4 23:00:35 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 4/1/2026 10:07 pm, alvey wrote:
    Noddy wrote:
    On 4/01/2026 12:38 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 3/01/2026 8:52 pm, alvey wrote:

    100%. It's the biggest load of fucking cope he's ever posted.

    He had absolutely no idea what he was doing and his story makes
    absolutely no sense at all which gives weight to the theory that he
    made up a scenario where he thought he could play the hero without
    realising that what he posted only made him look grossly incompetent.

    Makes no sense at all, huh? So the idea of swapping a a known good
    part for a suspected flaky one, which is a recommended procedure in
    many factory shop manuals, makes no sense to you?

    Yeah. sorry, I forgot. You're the fucking idiot who can't blow an air
    cleaner element out with compressed air without fucking it, and
    instead insist that banging one on a workbench is the only "safe" way
    to clean one.

    I can't imagine anyone more utterly *clueless* than you are.

    Which is seriously odd considering that you *can* imagine yourself as a successful business owner, qualified spanner user, hard man, drag racer, Grange owner, Guitar owning muso, pub bouncer etc etc etc.

    Yeah, delusions work like that! No credence to anyone else except those afflicted.
    --
    Xeno

    Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
    (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Xeno@xenolith@optusnet.com.au to aus.cars on Sun Jan 4 23:04:38 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 4/1/2026 10:24 pm, Noddy wrote:
    On 4/01/2026 10:14 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 4/01/2026 10:41 am, Clocky wrote:

    Bzzzzt. Another comprehension failure on your part. I said I couldn't
    speak a word of English when I was 9. I didn't say I was 9 when I
    started school here and it wasn't 1982 anyway.

    That seems odd, I've visited the land of your birth several times, and
    have rarely met anybody who couldn't speak English. I've asked a
    couple of them why that is, the answer always was that they started
    learning it as soon as they started school. So, I would have thought
    that, unless you were particularly thick, you'd have at least a basic
    understanding of English after at least 3 years of school.

    It's getting to the point where you can't believe a word the bloke says.

    And it;s been like that with you for a very long time. Please don't
    project your lack of integrity onto others, it makes you look a real dick!


    Just like his mental mate.

    Must be something about the Dutch :)

    Yeah, the Dutch could actually learn stuff at school, pass exams and
    qualify for apprenticeships, something you could never do!
    --
    Xeno

    Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
    (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Trevor Wilson@trevor@rageaudio.com.au to aus.cars on Mon Jan 5 06:04:27 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 4/01/2026 9:34 pm, Noddy wrote:
    On 4/01/2026 8:52 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 4/01/2026 12:34 pm, Noddy wrote:

    I think he commented that one of his Escorts would see 7500rpm, and
    if so we can see what the consequence of that was :)


    **It provided me with many years of enjoyable motoring, until it was
    written off by an idiot running a red. It was fortunate that I wasn't
    carrying a passenger. My next 2L Escort was no where near as good.

    The point being Trev that *that* kind of use is well beyond the normal operating range of the engine, and things like valve spring failure is a consequence of it.

    The Kent engine was a great little engine, but it was never designed to
    see 7500rpm out of the box in *any* of it's forms.


    **Try reading what I wrote. I NEVER claimed that I ran my 1.3L Escort to 7,500RPM. AFAIK, such a thing would be impossible without significant
    engine changes.
    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From alvey@Hans.Andnees@gmail.com to aus.cars on Mon Jan 5 06:10:20 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    Noddy wrote:
    On 4/01/2026 10:14 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 4/01/2026 10:41 am, Clocky wrote:

    Bzzzzt. Another comprehension failure on your part. I said I couldn't
    speak a word of English when I was 9. I didn't say I was 9 when I
    started school here and it wasn't 1982 anyway.

    That seems odd, I've visited the land of your birth several times, and
    have rarely met anybody who couldn't speak English. I've asked a
    couple of them why that is, the answer always was that they started
    learning it as soon as they started school. So, I would have thought
    that, unless you were particularly thick, you'd have at least a basic
    understanding of English after at least 3 years of school.

    It's getting to the point where you can't believe a word the bloke says. Just like his mental mate.

    Must be something about the Dutch :)

    And something about you pair is that you are both lazy and stupid.

    So because Retcho allegedly got told something by a couple of clog-wogs
    in the street then that's conclusive proof of the Dutch education
    system. Jaysus wept! You pair are ridiculous.

    Fyi, Mr AI says that "English is routinely taught in Dutch primary
    schools, with a legal requirement for it to start by group 7 (around age 10-11)...".

    Well played boys.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Noddy@me@home.com to aus.cars on Mon Jan 5 07:53:48 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 5/01/2026 6:04 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 4/01/2026 9:34 pm, Noddy wrote:

    The Kent engine was a great little engine, but it was never designed
    to see 7500rpm out of the box in *any* of it's forms.


    **Try reading what I wrote. I NEVER claimed that I ran my 1.3L Escort to 7,500RPM. AFAIK, such a thing would be impossible without significant
    engine changes.

    Sorry Trev, but I thought you mentioned revving the ring out of your
    Escorts and complained about the 1.6 not being able to do so. Either
    way, valve spring failure is a result of *someone* kicking the crap out
    of the engine, and it's a little unfair to blame the engine for that.
    --
    --
    --
    Regards,
    Noddy.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Trevor Wilson@trevor@rageaudio.com.au to aus.cars on Mon Jan 5 11:40:10 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 5/01/2026 7:53 am, Noddy wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 6:04 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 4/01/2026 9:34 pm, Noddy wrote:

    The Kent engine was a great little engine, but it was never designed
    to see 7500rpm out of the box in *any* of it's forms.


    **Try reading what I wrote. I NEVER claimed that I ran my 1.3L Escort
    to 7,500RPM. AFAIK, such a thing would be impossible without
    significant engine changes.

    Sorry Trev, but I thought you mentioned revving the ring out of your
    Escorts and complained about the 1.6 not being able to do so. Either
    way, valve spring failure is a result of *someone* kicking the crap out
    of the engine, and it's a little unfair to blame the engine for that.

    **I don't blame the engine at all. I know that I drove my little Escort
    hard. A mate ran his harder. The engine lasted around 35,000 miles.
    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Xeno@xenolith@optusnet.com.au to aus.cars on Mon Jan 5 11:50:13 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 5/1/2026 7:53 am, Noddy wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 6:04 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 4/01/2026 9:34 pm, Noddy wrote:

    The Kent engine was a great little engine, but it was never designed
    to see 7500rpm out of the box in *any* of it's forms.


    **Try reading what I wrote. I NEVER claimed that I ran my 1.3L Escort
    to 7,500RPM. AFAIK, such a thing would be impossible without
    significant engine changes.

    Sorry Trev, but I thought you mentioned revving the ring out of your
    Escorts and complained about the 1.6 not being able to do so. Either
    way, valve spring failure is a result of *someone* kicking the crap out
    of the engine, and it's a little unfair to blame the engine for that.

    Read for comprehensio Darren. Oh, I forgot, your language level is too
    low for that!
    --
    Xeno

    Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
    (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Noddy@me@home.com to aus.cars on Mon Jan 5 11:51:02 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 5/01/2026 11:40 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 7:53 am, Noddy wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 6:04 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 4/01/2026 9:34 pm, Noddy wrote:

    The Kent engine was a great little engine, but it was never designed
    to see 7500rpm out of the box in *any* of it's forms.


    **Try reading what I wrote. I NEVER claimed that I ran my 1.3L Escort
    to 7,500RPM. AFAIK, such a thing would be impossible without
    significant engine changes.

    Sorry Trev, but I thought you mentioned revving the ring out of your
    Escorts and complained about the 1.6 not being able to do so. Either
    way, valve spring failure is a result of *someone* kicking the crap
    out of the engine, and it's a little unfair to blame the engine for that.

    **I don't blame the engine at all. I know that I drove my little Escort hard. A mate ran his harder. The engine lasted around 35,000 miles.

    That tends to happen when you push machinery way past the boundaries of
    it's intended use. The interesting bit is that you cited your Escorts as examples of older cars being less reliable, but it's becoming clear that
    the reason for their relative unreliability was the person behind the
    wheel and not the machines themselves :)
    --
    --
    --
    Regards,
    Noddy.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From jonz@Nothere@oroverthere.com to aus.cars on Mon Jan 5 11:57:51 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 04-Jan-26 12:38 PM, Clocky wrote:
    On 3/01/2026 8:52 pm, alvey wrote:
    Noddy wrote:
    On 3/01/2026 12:38 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 2/01/2026 6:46 pm, Noddy wrote:

    Yeah, that's right. Like people who, when an intermittent fault
    with an error code that cannot be retrieved can't get the fault to
    occur when they're looking at the vehicle do a bit of lateral
    thinking and swap parts around to see if the fault follows the swap >>>>> the next time it occurs which will positively identify the cause.


    LOL, lateral thinking back to the 70's and all you know - part
    swapping in hope and ignorance.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Part substitution is a *legitimate* diagnostic tool!. Always has
    been,always will be!.



    No goose, you failed to realise that an intermittent fault of that
    nature can easily be diagnosed by a tool that you had in your
    arsenal - and you literally said that you didn't even plug it in.

    Noddy on April 15 2023 wrote;

    "I never bothered plugging my scan tool in in the first place"

    Yeah, that's right. I never bothered plugging a scan tool into the
    car because the fault code had been cleared the thing gone through
    the minimum number of start cycles without it reoccurring which meant
    the code had been permanently deleted, and despite your nonsensical
    claims there was no hope of it ever being retrieved.

    None. That's why I thought outside the box and did what I did, and it
    proved to be a very successful idea.

    You forgot something at the beginning Fraudster. You know, "Once upon
    a time..."

    hth
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Help?, nah, just *more* obfuscating crap from the usual suspect.>>


    100%. It's the biggest load of fucking cope he's ever posted.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    I reckon he`s coping very well, as opposed to the circle jerkers in
    here.. <FBG>>
    He had absolutely no idea what he was doing and his story makes
    absolutely no sense at all which gives weight to the theory that he made
    up a scenario where he thought he could play the hero without realising
    that what he posted only made him look grossly incompetent.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    *This* is what he said:

    "Yeah, that's right. I never bothered plugging a
    scan tool into the
    car because the fault code had been cleared the thing gone through
    the minimum number of start cycles without it reoccurring which meant
    the code had been permanently deleted, and despite your nonsensical
    claims there was no hope of it ever being retrieved."

    ~~~~~ ~~~~~

    *NO* rebuttal of that statement!..Yet yer whole fucken argument revolved around it!. You smooth brains need (if possible) to lift yer game!. >
    The moron thinks Tech 2 isn't an OBD-II scanner FFS... *anyone* can
    verify that as a statement of pure ignorance.

    UH-HUH, sure. ;)>


    --
    Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea--Massive,
    difficult to redirect, awe inspiring, entertaining and a source of mind boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it!!!!. Gene Spafford
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Xeno@xenolith@optusnet.com.au to aus.cars on Mon Jan 5 11:59:46 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 5/1/2026 7:10 am, alvey wrote:
    Noddy wrote:
    On 4/01/2026 10:14 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 4/01/2026 10:41 am, Clocky wrote:

    Bzzzzt. Another comprehension failure on your part. I said I
    couldn't speak a word of English when I was 9. I didn't say I was 9
    when I started school here and it wasn't 1982 anyway.

    That seems odd, I've visited the land of your birth several times,
    and have rarely met anybody who couldn't speak English. I've asked a
    couple of them why that is, the answer always was that they started
    learning it as soon as they started school. So, I would have thought
    that, unless you were particularly thick, you'd have at least a basic
    understanding of English after at least 3 years of school.

    It's getting to the point where you can't believe a word the bloke
    says. Just like his mental mate.

    Must be something about the Dutch :)

    And something about you pair is that you are both lazy and stupid.

    So because Retcho allegedly got told something by a couple of clog-wogs
    in the street then that's conclusive proof of the Dutch education
    system. Jaysus wept! You pair are ridiculous.

    Fyi, Mr AI says that "English is routinely taught in Dutch primary
    schools, with a legal requirement for it to start by group 7 (around age 10-11)...".

    Well played boys.

    They truly are dickheads

    In Thailand English has become mandatory in primary school from 4th
    grade. I know because I was lumbered with a composite English class
    (4-5-6) way back in 97. The reason for that is the limited spread of
    Thai Language - not much use outside of Thailand or Laos.
    --
    Xeno

    Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
    (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Xeno@xenolith@optusnet.com.au to aus.cars on Mon Jan 5 12:03:03 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 5/1/2026 6:04 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 4/01/2026 9:34 pm, Noddy wrote:
    On 4/01/2026 8:52 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 4/01/2026 12:34 pm, Noddy wrote:

    I think he commented that one of his Escorts would see 7500rpm, and
    if so we can see what the consequence of that was :)


    **It provided me with many years of enjoyable motoring, until it was
    written off by an idiot running a red. It was fortunate that I wasn't
    carrying a passenger. My next 2L Escort was no where near as good.

    The point being Trev that *that* kind of use is well beyond the normal
    operating range of the engine, and things like valve spring failure is
    a consequence of it.

    The Kent engine was a great little engine, but it was never designed
    to see 7500rpm out of the box in *any* of it's forms.


    **Try reading what I wrote. I NEVER claimed that I ran my 1.3L Escort to 7,500RPM. AFAIK, such a thing would be impossible without significant
    engine changes.

    Darren thinks he can run a *stock* 350 Ford V8 at 10,000 rpm+. The
    dickwit hasn't a clue - the upper limit on engine RPM is *piston speed*.
    He seems to think all you need to do is beef things up and it's all
    good. I have news for him and it's all bad.
    --
    Xeno

    Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
    (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From jonz@Nothere@oroverthere.com to aus.cars on Mon Jan 5 12:09:23 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 05-Jan-26 11:51 AM, Noddy wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 11:40 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 7:53 am, Noddy wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 6:04 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 4/01/2026 9:34 pm, Noddy wrote:

    The Kent engine was a great little engine, but it was never
    designed to see 7500rpm out of the box in *any* of it's forms.


    **Try reading what I wrote. I NEVER claimed that I ran my 1.3L
    Escort to 7,500RPM. AFAIK, such a thing would be impossible without
    significant engine changes.

    Sorry Trev, but I thought you mentioned revving the ring out of your
    Escorts and complained about the 1.6 not being able to do so. Either
    way, valve spring failure is a result of *someone* kicking the crap
    out of the engine, and it's a little unfair to blame the engine for
    that.

    **I don't blame the engine at all. I know that I drove my little
    Escort hard. A mate ran his harder. The engine lasted around 35,000
    miles.

    That tends to happen when you push machinery way past the boundaries of
    it's intended use. The interesting bit is that you cited your Escorts as examples of older cars being less reliable, but it's becoming clear that
    the reason for their relative unreliability was the person behind the
    wheel and not the machines themselves :)

    ~~~~~~~~~~~`
    100%.........>




    --
    Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea--Massive,
    difficult to redirect, awe inspiring, entertaining and a source of mind boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it!!!!. Gene Spafford
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From jonz@Nothere@oroverthere.com to aus.cars on Mon Jan 5 12:17:02 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 04-Jan-26 8:56 PM, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 3/01/2026 9:17 pm, Daryl wrote:
    On 3/1/2026 7:27 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 3/01/2026 8:05 am, Daryl wrote:
    On 2/1/2026 8:16 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 30/12/2025 9:55 am, Clocky wrote:
    On 29/12/2025 5:49 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 29/12/2025 8:19 pm, Daryl wrote:
    On 29/12/2025 6:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    A week ago last Friday, the car fairy paid a visit, and, like >>>>>>>>> all good fairies, left a present - a RAV4.

    It has only done one journey beyond the local area, a 25Km trip >>>>>>>>> to our daughter's place for Xmas day, but the economy looks OK, >>>>>>>>> usually in the low 5s, sometimes in the upper 4s. It's quite a >>>>>>>>> change from the Mazda 3, apart from the driving position being >>>>>>>>> significantly higher, things have moved on in the 10 years
    since we bought the M3.

    Not necessarily for the better IMO, too much electronics to go >>>>>>>> wrong, most of it is pretty reliable but can be a nightmare when >>>>>>>> it isn't.

    **Bullshit. Electronics, in general, have improved car
    reliability dramatically.

    Absolute garbage. Most definitely not.

    -a-aI cite the example of EFI as one that has VASTLY improved
    almost every aspect of engine flexibility,

    Yeah that was many decades ago now and did vastly improve
    reliability but as time has gone on and countless modules and
    systems have been introduced for superfluous bullshit reliability >>>>>> has declined.

    And that's not just electronics - cost reduction, emission control >>>>>> systems, CRD and pushing engines to their limits etc have all
    contributed to a decline in long term reliability.



    **Bullshit. My FC Holden was pretty much buggered at around 100,000 >>>>> miles.

    Pretty much standard for those engines in those days.

    -a-aMy first Escort (1.3L) was headed for a major engine rebuild at
    around 100,000km.

    That is unusual, Kent engines are generally robust.

    **Robust, yes. Mine was diagnosed as requiring a new set of valve
    springs, along with a bunch of other stuff.

    Needing new valve springs at 100,00km says to me that the engine was
    abused in that it was held at high rpm too often, its also hardly a
    "major rebuild" its actually a simple job on those engines.

    **Very likely, but the car was well past it's use-by date in many areas.




    -a-aMy second Escort (1.6L pushrod) was a dud from day
    one, but it was headed for the scrapyard at around 100,000km.

    Also unusual.

    **The 1.6L pushrod was a heap of shit. Barely made more power than
    the 1.3L, revved out to a pitiful 5,500RPM and Dieseled when turned
    off. There was no cure. Ford had a kludge, which didn't work. All in
    all, the 1.6L pushrod was a profoundly disappointing car.
    Particularly, since I had taken a 1.6L DOHC for a spin at the same
    time. WOW!

    Trying to remind what year that car would have been?
    Late 70's early 80's?

    **1976.

    If so that was around the time when emissions rules were new and many
    car makers struggled to meet emissions and still make decent power,
    many lost power so not really the fault of the engine. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Ball bearings inserted in appropriate tubing made those early emission devices learn their place in the universe!. ;) >
    **Yes, it was. It was a dog of an engine. Ford knew it, but sold them anyway. I recall buying a service manual for the car to see what was
    going on. The manual covered the 1.6L and the 2L. The number of pipes
    and shit in the 1.6L dwarfed what was in the 2L. It seems that the 2L
    was an inherently cleaner running engine, as it didn't require all the kludges fitted by Ford to make it compliant. The 2L was more economical
    than the 1.6L too.



    -a-aMy first
    2L SOHC Escort was a bit special. It actually lasted quite well,
    whilst proving me with huge enjoyment. Even at 100,000km, it was
    happily revving past 7,000RPM. Until it was written off by an idiot >>>>> running a red.

    Also unusual because Pinto engines were just okay.

    **185kph. Redlined in top gear. Brilliant thing. I had a bit of a
    race with a GTV2000 once. I kept up with him, until 140kph, where he
    began to pull away. Not bad for a crappy old Escort. The 2L Escort
    desperately deserved a 5th cog. I could easily stay with my mate's
    4.1L Cortina. Until we hit a corner, of course. Then I left him for
    dead.

    I had an RS2000 for a couple of weeks in the early 80's, my memory was
    that it went rather well but compared to anything modern it was pretty
    slow.

    **Duh. Compared to most things in 1976, the 2L Escort was pretty damned decent.



    -a-aMy last Escort (2L) was a disappointment, but it lasted past
    150,000km. I actually managed to sell it. Then my VH Commodore came >>>>> along. It lasted 175,000km before a complete engine swap (big
    mistake - Higginbottom disaster). That engine lasted another
    100,000km, before it died.

    Typical Holden of the day, could have been worse, you could have
    bought a VK piece of shit.

    -a-aAfter that, my VL. Never gave me a minute's problems. Sold with
    220,000km up. Then came my VP Commodore. Bits would fall off it and >>>>> the paint was, well, barely paint, but it was generally quite
    reliable, until a tree branch (weighing an estimated 3 Tonnes)
    killed it at around 250,000km. Then I drove my partner's Ford
    Telstar. We sold it at 245,000km. It was running fine. I just
    couldn't get the air-con fixed. Then my Nissan Stagea. I sold it at >>>>> 245,000kms. I regularly receive texts from the purchaser, who is
    clocking up big kms in it. He loves it. As did I. It was a quite
    sophisticated car, electronically. Drive by wire, reversing camera, >>>>> GPS, auto folding and tilting mirrors, etc, etc.

    All I can say is that cars are getting more reliable with each
    purchase. My Subaru Levorg has not given me a millisecond's trouble >>>>> in 7 years. Of course, I've been using the same mechanic, or the
    guy who trained under that mechanic for many years. I trust him/
    them to ensure that my cars are reliable. In fact, when I purchased >>>>> the VL, he swapped out the radiator cap on day one for a Toyota(?!) >>>>> unit.

    LOL, you think that that is remarkable some how:-)

    **I mis-remembered. He swapped the radiator cap on my VP to prevent
    the radiator from failing. It worked.


    Sounds like a lower pressure cap which may have stopped the radiator
    failing but it lowered the coolants boiling point which isn't a great
    idea especially on a car notorious for cooling system issues.

    **It solved my radiator problems.


    --
    Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea--Massive,
    difficult to redirect, awe inspiring, entertaining and a source of mind boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it!!!!. Gene Spafford
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From keithr0@me@bugger.off.com.au to aus.cars on Mon Jan 5 11:23:08 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 5/01/2026 6:10 am, alvey wrote:
    Noddy wrote:
    On 4/01/2026 10:14 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 4/01/2026 10:41 am, Clocky wrote:

    Bzzzzt. Another comprehension failure on your part. I said I
    couldn't speak a word of English when I was 9. I didn't say I was 9
    when I started school here and it wasn't 1982 anyway.

    That seems odd, I've visited the land of your birth several times,
    and have rarely met anybody who couldn't speak English. I've asked a
    couple of them why that is, the answer always was that they started
    learning it as soon as they started school. So, I would have thought
    that, unless you were particularly thick, you'd have at least a basic
    understanding of English after at least 3 years of school.

    It's getting to the point where you can't believe a word the bloke
    says. Just like his mental mate.

    Must be something about the Dutch :)

    And something about you pair is that you are both lazy and stupid.

    So because Retcho allegedly got told something by a couple of clog-wogs
    in the street then that's conclusive proof of the Dutch education
    system. Jaysus wept! You pair are ridiculous.

    The "Clogwogs" are rather more likely to know something about the
    subject than you or your "AI". Jaysus wept! You are ridiculous.

    Fyi, Mr AI says that "English is routinely taught in Dutch primary
    schools, with a legal requirement for it to start by group 7 (around age 10-11)...".

    Note the words *legal requirement* nothing prevents schools from
    starting teaching English at an earlier stage.

    Well played boys.

    Not so well played Alv.


    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Xeno@xenolith@optusnet.com.au to aus.cars on Mon Jan 5 12:37:09 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 5/1/2026 11:51 am, Noddy wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 11:40 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 7:53 am, Noddy wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 6:04 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 4/01/2026 9:34 pm, Noddy wrote:

    The Kent engine was a great little engine, but it was never
    designed to see 7500rpm out of the box in *any* of it's forms.


    **Try reading what I wrote. I NEVER claimed that I ran my 1.3L
    Escort to 7,500RPM. AFAIK, such a thing would be impossible without
    significant engine changes.

    Sorry Trev, but I thought you mentioned revving the ring out of your
    Escorts and complained about the 1.6 not being able to do so. Either
    way, valve spring failure is a result of *someone* kicking the crap
    out of the engine, and it's a little unfair to blame the engine for
    that.

    **I don't blame the engine at all. I know that I drove my little
    Escort hard. A mate ran his harder. The engine lasted around 35,000
    miles.

    That tends to happen when you push machinery way past the boundaries of
    it's intended use. The interesting bit is that you cited your Escorts as examples of older cars being less reliable, but it's becoming clear that
    the reason for their relative unreliability was the person behind the
    wheel and not the machines themselves :)


    Sorry to disappoint Darren but reliability, or lack of, was indeed a
    function of the machines themselves. Even the manufacturers thought so.
    In order to ensure emissions compliance for the life of the car, the
    contact points, as a perfect example, had to be done away with. They
    simply weren't reliable enough and required regular servicing, something
    that also couldn't be guaranteed. Electronic HEI was not only more
    reliable, it guaranteed better combustion. Throw in long life spark
    plugs and routine ignition system maintenance was heavily reduced. What
    a lot of mechanics don't realise is that other items have a finite
    lifespan - prime example being plug leads. At one stage in the 70s, Ford
    were recommending, IIRC, 60k replacement intervals. These days it's more
    like 100k or earlier if they fail inspection. Still remember those Fords
    of the late 60s and early 70s developing weird faults at ~100 kph under cruise. Put the wrong leads on and you could generate ignition faults
    with equally weird symptoms. Darren would have been stuffed back in
    those days, no codes to read thus *his* diagnosis endeth there!
    --
    Xeno

    Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
    (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From alvey@Hans.Andnees@gmail.com to aus.cars on Mon Jan 5 12:10:52 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    keithr0 wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 6:10 am, alvey wrote:
    Noddy wrote:
    On 4/01/2026 10:14 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 4/01/2026 10:41 am, Clocky wrote:

    Bzzzzt. Another comprehension failure on your part. I said I
    couldn't speak a word of English when I was 9. I didn't say I was 9 >>>>> when I started school here and it wasn't 1982 anyway.

    That seems odd, I've visited the land of your birth several times,
    and have rarely met anybody who couldn't speak English. I've asked a
    couple of them why that is, the answer always was that they started
    learning it as soon as they started school. So, I would have thought
    that, unless you were particularly thick, you'd have at least a
    basic understanding of English after at least 3 years of school.

    It's getting to the point where you can't believe a word the bloke
    says. Just like his mental mate.

    Must be something about the Dutch :)

    And something about you pair is that you are both lazy and stupid.

    So because Retcho allegedly got told something by a couple of
    clog-wogs in the street then that's conclusive proof of the Dutch
    education system. Jaysus wept! You pair are ridiculous.

    The "Clogwogs" are rather more likely to know something about the
    subject than you or your "AI". Jaysus wept! You are ridiculous.

    Right. So I quote a fact and you post the *alleged* verbals of a couple
    of unknowns and I'm "ridiculous"? Lol.


    Fyi, Mr AI says that "English is routinely taught in Dutch primary
    schools, with a legal requirement for it to start by group 7 (around
    age 10-11)...".

    Note the words *legal requirement* nothing prevents schools from
    starting teaching English at an earlier stage.

    Well done! You can read! It also said that schools didn't have to start teaching English until "age 10-11". ie Older than Clock was when he
    lobbed here. DO YOU COMPREHEND THIS RITCHO?

    Well played boys.

    Not so well played Alv.

    lol!
    You're only saying that because you, like Brave Sir Runaway, are
    incapable of admitting that you stuffed up.


    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Xeno@xenolith@optusnet.com.au to aus.cars on Mon Jan 5 02:41:58 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 6:10 am, alvey wrote:
    Noddy wrote:
    On 4/01/2026 10:14 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 4/01/2026 10:41 am, Clocky wrote:

    Bzzzzt. Another comprehension failure on your part. I said I
    couldn't speak a word of English when I was 9. I didn't say I was 9 >>>>> when I started school here and it wasn't 1982 anyway.

    That seems odd, I've visited the land of your birth several times,
    and have rarely met anybody who couldn't speak English. I've asked a
    couple of them why that is, the answer always was that they started
    learning it as soon as they started school. So, I would have thought
    that, unless you were particularly thick, you'd have at least a basic >>>> understanding of English after at least 3 years of school.

    It's getting to the point where you can't believe a word the bloke
    says. Just like his mental mate.

    Must be something about the Dutch :)

    And something about you pair is that you are both lazy and stupid.

    So because Retcho allegedly got told something by a couple of clog-wogs
    in the street then that's conclusive proof of the Dutch education
    system. Jaysus wept! You pair are ridiculous.

    The "Clogwogs" are rather more likely to know something about the
    subject than you or your "AI". Jaysus wept! You are ridiculous.

    Fyi, Mr AI says that "English is routinely taught in Dutch primary
    schools, with a legal requirement for it to start by group 7 (around age
    10-11)...".

    Note the words *legal requirement* nothing prevents schools from
    starting teaching English at an earlier stage.

    Well played boys.

    Not so well played Alv.

    Not so well played Keith, the mandatory English requirement only came into force in 1986, a mere 40 years ago.

    AI
    English became the mandatory first foreign language in Dutch secondary
    schools around 1993, replacing French and German, though it had been
    gaining prominence since the 1960s. In primary schools, English became the single compulsory foreign language from 1986, introduced in the final years (around age 10-11) but often started earlier, with law allowing up to 15%
    of teaching time in English since 2015.
    Key Milestones:
    1960s-1970s: English started to overtake French and German as the primary foreign language.
    1986: English became the only mandatory foreign language in primary
    education, starting in the seventh grade (ages 10-11).
    1993: English became the sole compulsory foreign language in secondary education.
    2013: English became a "core subject" in primary education.
    2015: Law allowed English as a target language/medium for up to 15% of
    primary school time.
    This shift reflects the Netherlands' emphasis on English for economic and international reasons, leading to extremely high English proficiency among
    the Dutch population.

    WhatrCOs more, the transition would not have happened overnight so there
    would have been insufficient language teachers available to manage an
    instant adoption so any earlier classes simply wouldnrCOt have been catered
    to. It takes time to recruit and train new language teachers so no earlier language start. You played yourself Keith. Oh, and your desperation is
    showing.
    --
    Xeno
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Clocky@notgonna@happen.com to aus.cars on Mon Jan 5 10:43:34 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 4/01/2026 5:48 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 4/01/2026 11:07 am, Clocky wrote:
    On 3/01/2026 4:16 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 3/01/2026 6:46 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 2/01/2026 5:16 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 30/12/2025 9:55 am, Clocky wrote:
    On 29/12/2025 5:49 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 29/12/2025 8:19 pm, Daryl wrote:
    On 29/12/2025 6:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    A week ago last Friday, the car fairy paid a visit, and, like >>>>>>>>> all good fairies, left a present - a RAV4.

    It has only done one journey beyond the local area, a 25Km trip >>>>>>>>> to our daughter's place for Xmas day, but the economy looks OK, >>>>>>>>> usually in the low 5s, sometimes in the upper 4s. It's quite a >>>>>>>>> change from the Mazda 3, apart from the driving position being >>>>>>>>> significantly higher, things have moved on in the 10 years
    since we bought the M3.

    Not necessarily for the better IMO, too much electronics to go >>>>>>>> wrong, most of it is pretty reliable but can be a nightmare when >>>>>>>> it isn't.

    **Bullshit. Electronics, in general, have improved car
    reliability dramatically.

    Absolute garbage. Most definitely not.

    -a-aI cite the example of EFI as one that has VASTLY improved
    almost every aspect of engine flexibility,

    Yeah that was many decades ago now and did vastly improve
    reliability but as time has gone on and countless modules and
    systems have been introduced for superfluous bullshit reliability >>>>>> has declined.

    And that's not just electronics - cost reduction, emission control >>>>>> systems, CRD and pushing engines to their limits etc have all
    contributed to a decline in long term reliability.



    **Bullshit. My FC Holden was pretty much buggered at around 100,000 >>>>> miles. My first Escort (1.3L) was headed for a major engine rebuild >>>>> at around 100,000km. My second Escort (1.6L pushrod) was a dud from >>>>> day one, but it was headed for the scrapyard at around 100,000km.
    My first 2L SOHC Escort was a bit special. It actually lasted quite >>>>> well, whilst proving me with huge enjoyment. Even at 100,000km, it
    was happily revving past 7,000RPM. Until it was written off by an
    idiot running a red. My last Escort (2L) was a disappointment, but
    it lasted past 150,000km. I actually managed to sell it. Then my VH >>>>> Commodore came along. It lasted 175,000km before a complete engine
    swap (big mistake - Higginbottom disaster). That engine lasted
    another 100,000km, before it died. After that, my VL. Never gave me >>>>> a minute's problems.

    Yeah which proves my point when I said EFI did vastly improve
    reliability and that it was decades ago.

    The VL was ~40 years ago and EFI. It had it's issues too.
    Not the first Holden with EFI, that belongs to the VK and it's
    "black" Holden 3.3L with Bosch Jetronic EFI option. Economy and
    power improved, reliability, well not so much :-)


    -a-aSold with
    220,000km up. Then came my VP Commodore. Bits would fall off it and >>>>> the paint was, well, barely paint, but it was generally quite
    reliable, until a tree branch (weighing an estimated 3 Tonnes)
    killed it at around 250,000km.


    Then I drove my partner's Ford Telstar. We sold it at
    245,000km. It was running fine.

    Early ones were shit.

    **Yep. I drove an early one. It felt like a truck. My partner's one
    was a 1989 model. A Ghia. It was a decent, comfortable, VERY reliable
    car. Best of all, when the clutch master and slave cylinders needed
    replacement, the total bill was around $600.00. At the same time my
    mate did the same job in his Jeep Compass (which used VW running
    gear). That cost him 3 Grand!


    1989 models were shit. Did a lot of head gasket on those.

    **I guess we were lucky.


    Very.



    -a-aI just couldn't get the air-con fixed.
    Then my Nissan Stagea. I sold it at 245,000kms. I regularly receive >>>>> texts from the purchaser, who is clocking up big kms in it. He
    loves it. As did I. It was a quite sophisticated car,
    electronically. Drive by wire, reversing camera, GPS, auto folding
    and tilting mirrors, etc, etc.


    Again, hardly new nor was it or anything special.

    **The ONLY people who say that about the 2001 Nissan Stagea, are
    those who have never driven one. Trust me: It was a very special car.
    Quick (enough), luxurious, feature laden and very good handling
    (51:49 weight distribution, AWD, independent suspension, etc, etc).
    Such a great car. In fact, one of my customers spotted it out the
    front one day and mentioned that he knew the car (which was unusual).
    I asked what he knew about it. He explained that he was married to a
    Japanese girl, whose father owned one. I was stunned and asked: "He
    STILL OWNS one?" He confirmed that was the case. VERY unusual in
    Japan, as it is very expensive to keep an old car. He explained that
    his father-in-law owned one back in the early 2000s, but sold it and
    moved to something else (I dunno what). He was so disappointed in the
    new car, then he tracked down a good, used Stagea and bought it.
    Great car. Don't forget, back in 2001, they sold for something like
    4.5 million Yen. Sold here, they would likely have approached
    AUS$100,000.00. Think: Lexus quality.


    Yeah a decent old car but again, nothing special. Did it have wing
    mirrors and the rust that often accompanied them typical of Jap import
    vehicles?

    **Of course not.

    Of course not? Many Jap imports did.

    Despite spending at least 15 years of it's life not
    garaged, there was zero rust anywhere and the paintwork was still is
    superb condition.

    "Nothing special"? Clearly you have yet to drive (a good) one. I can
    list several people who have owned one, then stepped back into one,
    after realising what a great old car they are.


    The real question is, what is *your* basis for comparison?
    I've driven a lot of cars as a mechanic and working in the trade mor
    broadly.



    All I can say is that cars are getting more reliable with each
    purchase. My Subaru Levorg has not given me a millisecond's trouble >>>>> in 7 years. Of course, I've been using the same mechanic, or the
    guy who trained under that mechanic for many years. I trust
    him/them to ensure that my cars are reliable.

    The can only assure that they are well maintained. Reliability can't
    be assured.

    **Of course. When I mentioned to my mechanic that I thought a Fiat
    595 would make a nice weekend car, he screamed at me.

    -a-aThere were many optimally maintained Subaru's that suffered
    engine problems and CVT failures over fairly recent years.

    **Sure. I've read the same stories. I will remind you that those
    problems are mechanical ones and, I'm led to believe, that it is
    mostly due to the lack of regular service to the gearbox.


    Not at all. The CVT's had issues long before the service interval
    could have played any part. They were just shit.
    Ditto the engine problems.

    The Eyesight system has also been a bit problematic under certain
    conditions.

    **Nope. Under EXTREMELY heavy rain or EXTREMELY heavy fog, the
    Eyesight system won't work. That is not a fault. It's a fact of life
    and is dealt with in the manual. Frankly, anyone who drives quickly
    under such conditions and relies solely on instrumentation is a bit
    stupid, IMO. In 8 years of owning the Subaru, my Eyesight system has
    ceased working 4 times. Each time, it was VERY heavy rain or fog. It
    has never failed under any other conditions. Even what you would
    consider to be heavy rainfall, it works fine. That said, I would like
    to see Subaru augment the Eyesight system with radar.


    Afraid not Trev.

    https://www.eyesightsettlement.com/

    **The only time/s that my Eyesight system has failed is during VERY
    heavy rain or heavy fog. And, like I said, driving quickly under such condition requires an extreme level of stupidity.


    Class actions don't happen for no reason Trev. Subaru's with eyesight technology are sold around the world and has been found wanting by too
    many people, you included under certain circumstances.



    -a-aIn fact, when I purchased the VL, he swapped out the
    radiator cap on day one for a Toyota(?!) unit.


    I can assure you that that did not reposition the radiator or engine
    in the slightest :-)

    **Correct. And, come to think of it, it was the VP that had the
    radiator cap replaced. It was done to to prevent the constant
    radiator failures.


    Nope, there were no widespread radiator failures on VP let alone that
    could be prevented with a cap change.

    Are you sure you didn't own a Falcon?

    **Never.


    However, cracked heads in the VL is not the result of an electronics
    failure.


    CAS and coil failures leaving people stranded OTOH...

    **Sure. As can any number of mechanical faults.


    --
    In thread "May need to buy petrol soon" Sept 23 2021 11:15:59am
    Keithr0 wrote: "He made the assertion either he proves it or he is a
    proven liar."

    On Sept 23 2021 3:16:29pm Keithr0 wrote:
    "He asserts that the claim is true, so, if it is unproven, he is lying."
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Clocky@notgonna@happen.com to aus.cars on Mon Jan 5 10:53:43 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 4/01/2026 9:37 am, Noddy wrote:
    On 4/01/2026 11:41 am, Clocky wrote:
    On 3/01/2026 7:05 pm, Noddy wrote:

    Yet in previous times when desperately trying to exert his authority
    into an argument, he claimed to have witnessed "Datsun 200B's rusting
    away in holding yards" while they were new cars waiting for delivery.


    Bzzzzt. Are you sure I said I "witnessed" it? I could have witnessed
    for more than one reason but are you sure I actually said that or are
    you fabricating that part?

    Forget it Jerky.

    Not a chance.

    Your bullshit has been noted.

    So post a link and prove it.

    Just like how you
    squeeled when trying to claim you never said you used straps to hold unbalanced cars on hoists, until your mental mate threw you a life saver.


    Post that too. Your word means jack, you *are* a habitual liar.


    Maybe that's why you two incompetent cunts are so much in love :)

    You were busted wide open as an incompetent fool and no amount of your
    lies will make that go away, son.
    --
    In thread "May need to buy petrol soon" Sept 23 2021 11:15:59am
    Keithr0 wrote: "He made the assertion either he proves it or he is a
    proven liar."

    On Sept 23 2021 3:16:29pm Keithr0 wrote:
    "He asserts that the claim is true, so, if it is unproven, he is lying."
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Clocky@notgonna@happen.com to aus.cars on Mon Jan 5 11:16:41 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 4/01/2026 7:14 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 4/01/2026 10:41 am, Clocky wrote:

    Bzzzzt. Another comprehension failure on your part. I said I couldn't
    speak a word of English when I was 9. I didn't say I was 9 when I
    started school here and it wasn't 1982 anyway.

    That seems odd, I've visited the land of your birth several times, and
    have rarely met anybody who couldn't speak English.

    Correct and often German and French as well.

    I've asked a couple
    of them why that is, the answer always was that they started learning it
    as soon as they started school.

    Only since 1986 and that was for children aged 10-12.
    So not at 9 years of age and not at all when I came to this country
    which was well prior to 1986.

    So, I would have thought that,

    You stand corrected and learnt something today you ridiculous pommy cunt.



    unless
    you were particularly thick, you'd have at least a basic understanding
    of English after at least 3 years of school.


    --
    In thread "May need to buy petrol soon" Sept 23 2021 11:15:59am
    Keithr0 wrote: "He made the assertion either he proves it or he is a
    proven liar."

    On Sept 23 2021 3:16:29pm Keithr0 wrote:
    "He asserts that the claim is true, so, if it is unproven, he is lying."
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From keithr0@me@bugger.off.com.au to aus.cars on Mon Jan 5 13:17:51 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 5/01/2026 12:10 pm, alvey wrote:
    keithr0 wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 6:10 am, alvey wrote:
    Noddy wrote:
    On 4/01/2026 10:14 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 4/01/2026 10:41 am, Clocky wrote:

    Bzzzzt. Another comprehension failure on your part. I said I
    couldn't speak a word of English when I was 9. I didn't say I was >>>>>> 9 when I started school here and it wasn't 1982 anyway.

    That seems odd, I've visited the land of your birth several times,
    and have rarely met anybody who couldn't speak English. I've asked
    a couple of them why that is, the answer always was that they
    started learning it as soon as they started school. So, I would
    have thought that, unless you were particularly thick, you'd have
    at least a basic understanding of English after at least 3 years of >>>>> school.

    It's getting to the point where you can't believe a word the bloke
    says. Just like his mental mate.

    Must be something about the Dutch :)

    And something about you pair is that you are both lazy and stupid.

    So because Retcho allegedly got told something by a couple of clog-
    wogs in the street then that's conclusive proof of the Dutch
    education system. Jaysus wept! You pair are ridiculous.

    The "Clogwogs" are rather more likely to know something about the
    subject than you or your "AI". Jaysus wept! You are ridiculous.

    Right. So I quote a fact and you post the *alleged* verbals of a couple
    of unknowns and I'm "ridiculous"? Lol.

    You did not post a fact, you posted the output of some unknown "AI". If
    you think that I stopped some random "Clogwogs" in the street, you are
    even more stupid that I have given you credit for, these were
    intelligent people with whom I had a social relationship, far more
    reliable than some anonymous clown from the Sunshine Coast.

    BTW, your use of the term "Clogwogs" is both demeaning to your friend
    clocky, and possibly in breach of hate speech laws.

    Fyi, Mr AI says that "English is routinely taught in Dutch primary
    schools, with a legal requirement for it to start by group 7 (around
    age 10-11)...".

    Note the words *legal requirement* nothing prevents schools from
    starting teaching English at an earlier stage.

    Well done! You can read! It also said that schools didn't have to start teaching English until "age 10-11". ie Older than Clock was when he
    lobbed here. DO YOU COMPREHEND THIS RITCHO?

    That is a completely stupid statement, that fact that they don't have to doesn't mean that they don't. CAN YOU COMPREHEND THIS ALVO?

    Well played boys.

    Not so well played Alv.

    lol!
    You're only saying that because you, like Brave Sir Runaway, are
    incapable of admitting that you stuffed up.

    Look in the mirror and see who stuffed up.

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Clocky@notgonna@happen.com to aus.cars on Mon Jan 5 11:21:47 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 5/01/2026 4:10 am, alvey wrote:
    Noddy wrote:
    On 4/01/2026 10:14 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 4/01/2026 10:41 am, Clocky wrote:

    Bzzzzt. Another comprehension failure on your part. I said I
    couldn't speak a word of English when I was 9. I didn't say I was 9
    when I started school here and it wasn't 1982 anyway.

    That seems odd, I've visited the land of your birth several times,
    and have rarely met anybody who couldn't speak English. I've asked a
    couple of them why that is, the answer always was that they started
    learning it as soon as they started school. So, I would have thought
    that, unless you were particularly thick, you'd have at least a basic
    understanding of English after at least 3 years of school.

    It's getting to the point where you can't believe a word the bloke
    says. Just like his mental mate.

    Must be something about the Dutch :)

    And something about you pair is that you are both lazy and stupid.

    So because Retcho allegedly got told something by a couple of clog-wogs
    in the street then that's conclusive proof of the Dutch education
    system. Jaysus wept! You pair are ridiculous.

    Fyi, Mr AI says that "English is routinely taught in Dutch primary
    schools, with a legal requirement for it to start by group 7 (around age 10-11)...".


    *and* only since 1986 - when I was already here and fluent in English.
    In fact had I stayed on I would have learned French/German first and
    English only in secondary school.

    Well played boys.

    Facts don't matter when you're a fraud supported by a pathetic enabler.
    --
    In thread "May need to buy petrol soon" Sept 23 2021 11:15:59am
    Keithr0 wrote: "He made the assertion either he proves it or he is a
    proven liar."

    On Sept 23 2021 3:16:29pm Keithr0 wrote:
    "He asserts that the claim is true, so, if it is unproven, he is lying."
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From keithr0@me@bugger.off.com.au to aus.cars on Mon Jan 5 13:37:45 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 5/01/2026 12:41 pm, Xeno wrote:
    keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 6:10 am, alvey wrote:
    Noddy wrote:
    On 4/01/2026 10:14 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 4/01/2026 10:41 am, Clocky wrote:

    Bzzzzt. Another comprehension failure on your part. I said I
    couldn't speak a word of English when I was 9. I didn't say I was 9 >>>>>> when I started school here and it wasn't 1982 anyway.

    That seems odd, I've visited the land of your birth several times,
    and have rarely met anybody who couldn't speak English. I've asked a >>>>> couple of them why that is, the answer always was that they started
    learning it as soon as they started school. So, I would have thought >>>>> that, unless you were particularly thick, you'd have at least a basic >>>>> understanding of English after at least 3 years of school.

    It's getting to the point where you can't believe a word the bloke
    says. Just like his mental mate.

    Must be something about the Dutch :)

    And something about you pair is that you are both lazy and stupid.

    So because Retcho allegedly got told something by a couple of clog-wogs
    in the street then that's conclusive proof of the Dutch education
    system. Jaysus wept! You pair are ridiculous.

    The "Clogwogs" are rather more likely to know something about the
    subject than you or your "AI". Jaysus wept! You are ridiculous.

    Fyi, Mr AI says that "English is routinely taught in Dutch primary
    schools, with a legal requirement for it to start by group 7 (around age >>> 10-11)...".

    Note the words *legal requirement* nothing prevents schools from
    starting teaching English at an earlier stage.

    Well played boys.

    Not so well played Alv.

    Not so well played Keith, the mandatory English requirement only came into force in 1986, a mere 40 years ago.

    AI
    English became the mandatory first foreign language in Dutch secondary schools around 1993, replacing French and German, though it had been
    gaining prominence since the 1960s. In primary schools, English became the single compulsory foreign language from 1986, introduced in the final years (around age 10-11) but often started earlier, with law allowing up to 15%
    of teaching time in English since 2015.
    Key Milestones:
    1960s-1970s: English started to overtake French and German as the primary foreign language.
    1986: English became the only mandatory foreign language in primary education, starting in the seventh grade (ages 10-11).
    1993: English became the sole compulsory foreign language in secondary education.
    2013: English became a "core subject" in primary education.
    2015: Law allowed English as a target language/medium for up to 15% of primary school time.
    This shift reflects the Netherlands' emphasis on English for economic and international reasons, leading to extremely high English proficiency among the Dutch population.

    Good God, more AI slop.

    WhatrCOs more, the transition would not have happened overnight so there would have been insufficient language teachers available to manage an
    instant adoption so any earlier classes simply wouldnrCOt have been catered to. It takes time to recruit and train new language teachers so no earlier language start. You played yourself Keith. Oh, and your desperation is showing.

    Desperation? ROTFL. Your problem, at least one of them, is that you can
    only view anything through the prism of your own limited experience,
    there is a lot more out there that you have no idea about, but won't
    admit it.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Clocky@notgonna@happen.com to aus.cars on Mon Jan 5 11:37:58 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 5/01/2026 9:23 am, keithr0 wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 6:10 am, alvey wrote:
    Noddy wrote:
    On 4/01/2026 10:14 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 4/01/2026 10:41 am, Clocky wrote:

    Bzzzzt. Another comprehension failure on your part. I said I
    couldn't speak a word of English when I was 9. I didn't say I was 9 >>>>> when I started school here and it wasn't 1982 anyway.

    That seems odd, I've visited the land of your birth several times,
    and have rarely met anybody who couldn't speak English. I've asked a
    couple of them why that is, the answer always was that they started
    learning it as soon as they started school. So, I would have thought
    that, unless you were particularly thick, you'd have at least a
    basic understanding of English after at least 3 years of school.

    It's getting to the point where you can't believe a word the bloke
    says. Just like his mental mate.

    Must be something about the Dutch :)

    And something about you pair is that you are both lazy and stupid.

    So because Retcho allegedly got told something by a couple of
    clog-wogs in the street then that's conclusive proof of the Dutch
    education system. Jaysus wept! You pair are ridiculous.

    The "Clogwogs" are rather more likely to know something about the
    subject than you or your "AI". Jaysus wept! You are ridiculous.


    We know nothig about your "Clogwogs" except that you probably invented them.

    Fyi, Mr AI says that "English is routinely taught in Dutch primary
    schools, with a legal requirement for it to start by group 7 (around
    age 10-11)...".

    Note the words *legal requirement* nothing prevents schools from
    starting teaching English at an earlier stage.


    Not in the 70's when I went to school in NL you fool. You were more
    likely to learn French or German before you learned English and not
    before age 10 anyway.


    Well played boys.

    Not so well played Alv.




    You fucked up and you know it.
    --
    In thread "May need to buy petrol soon" Sept 23 2021 11:15:59am
    Keithr0 wrote: "He made the assertion either he proves it or he is a
    proven liar."

    On Sept 23 2021 3:16:29pm Keithr0 wrote:
    "He asserts that the claim is true, so, if it is unproven, he is lying."
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Clocky@notgonna@happen.com to aus.cars on Mon Jan 5 11:58:02 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 5/01/2026 11:17 am, keithr0 wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 12:10 pm, alvey wrote:
    keithr0 wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 6:10 am, alvey wrote:
    Noddy wrote:
    On 4/01/2026 10:14 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 4/01/2026 10:41 am, Clocky wrote:

    Bzzzzt. Another comprehension failure on your part. I said I
    couldn't speak a word of English when I was 9. I didn't say I was >>>>>>> 9 when I started school here and it wasn't 1982 anyway.

    That seems odd, I've visited the land of your birth several times, >>>>>> and have rarely met anybody who couldn't speak English. I've asked >>>>>> a couple of them why that is, the answer always was that they
    started learning it as soon as they started school. So, I would
    have thought that, unless you were particularly thick, you'd have >>>>>> at least a basic understanding of English after at least 3 years
    of school.

    It's getting to the point where you can't believe a word the bloke
    says. Just like his mental mate.

    Must be something about the Dutch :)

    And something about you pair is that you are both lazy and stupid.

    So because Retcho allegedly got told something by a couple of clog-
    wogs in the street then that's conclusive proof of the Dutch
    education system. Jaysus wept! You pair are ridiculous.

    The "Clogwogs" are rather more likely to know something about the
    subject than you or your "AI". Jaysus wept! You are ridiculous.

    Right. So I quote a fact and you post the *alleged* verbals of a
    couple of unknowns and I'm "ridiculous"? Lol.

    You did not post a fact, you posted the output of some unknown "AI". If
    you think that I stopped some random "Clogwogs" in the street, you are
    even more stupid that I have given you credit for, these were
    intelligent people with whom I had a social relationship, far more
    reliable than some anonymous clown from the Sunshine Coast.


    Irrelevant. You made the statement that I should have been taught
    English in early primary school based on the statement of two unknown individuals of unknown age and have been shown why that is false.

    You can't admit the basis of your comment was false and are failing to
    squirm your way out of your predicament.

    BTW, your use of the term "Clogwogs" is both demeaning to your friend clocky, and possibly in breach of hate speech laws.


    No need to get offended on my behalf you ridiculous prat. I call myself
    a "Clogwog" too.

    You could offer an apology for your baseless slur if you had any integrity.

    Fyi, Mr AI says that "English is routinely taught in Dutch primary
    schools, with a legal requirement for it to start by group 7 (around
    age 10-11)...".

    Note the words *legal requirement* nothing prevents schools from
    starting teaching English at an earlier stage.

    Well done! You can read! It also said that schools didn't have to
    start teaching English until "age 10-11". ie Older than Clock was when
    he lobbed here. DO YOU COMPREHEND THIS RITCHO?

    That is a completely stupid statement, that fact that they don't have to doesn't mean that they don't. CAN YOU COMPREHEND THIS ALVO?


    They didn't in the 70's. Ask me how I know...


    Well played boys.

    Not so well played Alv.

    lol!
    You're only saying that because you, like Brave Sir Runaway, are
    incapable of admitting that you stuffed up.

    Look in the mirror and see who stuffed up.

    --
    In thread "May need to buy petrol soon" Sept 23 2021 11:15:59am
    Keithr0 wrote: "He made the assertion either he proves it or he is a
    proven liar."

    On Sept 23 2021 3:16:29pm Keithr0 wrote:
    "He asserts that the claim is true, so, if it is unproven, he is lying."
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Clocky@notgonna@happen.com to aus.cars on Mon Jan 5 12:01:47 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 5/01/2026 11:37 am, keithr0 wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 12:41 pm, Xeno wrote:
    keithr0 <me@bugger.off.com.au> wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 6:10 am, alvey wrote:
    Noddy wrote:
    On 4/01/2026 10:14 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 4/01/2026 10:41 am, Clocky wrote:

    Bzzzzt. Another comprehension failure on your part. I said I
    couldn't speak a word of English when I was 9. I didn't say I was 9 >>>>>>> when I started school here and it wasn't 1982 anyway.

    That seems odd, I've visited the land of your birth several times, >>>>>> and have rarely met anybody who couldn't speak English. I've asked a >>>>>> couple of them why that is, the answer always was that they started >>>>>> learning it as soon as they started school. So, I would have thought >>>>>> that, unless you were particularly thick, you'd have at least a basic >>>>>> understanding of English after at least 3 years of school.

    It's getting to the point where you can't believe a word the bloke
    says. Just like his mental mate.

    Must be something about the Dutch :)

    And something about you pair is that you are both lazy and stupid.

    So because Retcho allegedly got told something by a couple of clog-wogs >>>> in the street then that's conclusive proof of the Dutch education
    system. Jaysus wept! You pair are ridiculous.

    The "Clogwogs" are rather more likely to know something about the
    subject than you or your "AI". Jaysus wept! You are ridiculous.

    Fyi, Mr AI says that "English is routinely taught in Dutch primary
    schools, with a legal requirement for it to start by group 7 (around
    age
    10-11)...".

    Note the words *legal requirement* nothing prevents schools from
    starting teaching English at an earlier stage.

    Well played boys.

    Not so well played Alv.

    Not so well played Keith, the mandatory English requirement only came
    into
    force in 1986, a mere 40 years ago.

    AI
    English became the mandatory first foreign language in Dutch secondary
    schools around 1993, replacing French and German, though it had been
    gaining prominence since the 1960s. In primary schools, English became
    the
    single compulsory foreign language from 1986, introduced in the final
    years
    (around age 10-11) but often started earlier, with law allowing up to 15%
    of teaching time in English since 2015.
    Key Milestones:
    1960s-1970s: English started to overtake French and German as the primary
    foreign language.
    1986: English became the only mandatory foreign language in primary
    education, starting in the seventh grade (ages 10-11).
    1993: English became the sole compulsory foreign language in secondary
    education.
    2013: English became a "core subject" in primary education.
    2015: Law allowed English as a target language/medium for up to 15% of
    primary school time.
    This shift reflects the Netherlands' emphasis on English for economic and
    international reasons, leading to extremely high English proficiency
    among
    the Dutch population.

    Good God, more AI slop.

    You are ridiculous.


    WhatrCOs more, the transition would not have happened overnight so there
    would have been insufficient language teachers available to manage an
    instant adoption so any earlier classes simply wouldnrCOt have been catered >> to. It takes time to recruit and train new language teachers so no
    earlier
    language start. You played yourself Keith. Oh, and your desperation is
    showing.

    Desperation? ROTFL. Your problem, at least one of them, is that you can
    only view anything through the prism of your own limited experience,

    *I* went to school in NL and you have absolutely no experience at all.
    None.


    there is a lot more out there that you have no idea about, but won't
    admit it.
    --
    In thread "May need to buy petrol soon" Sept 23 2021 11:15:59am
    Keithr0 wrote: "He made the assertion either he proves it or he is a
    proven liar."

    On Sept 23 2021 3:16:29pm Keithr0 wrote:
    "He asserts that the claim is true, so, if it is unproven, he is lying."
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Clocky@notgonna@happen.com to aus.cars on Mon Jan 5 12:08:45 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 5/01/2026 9:28 am, keithr0 wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 10:57 am, jonz wrote:
    On 04-Jan-26 12:38 PM, Clocky wrote:
    On 3/01/2026 8:52 pm, alvey wrote:
    Noddy wrote:
    On 3/01/2026 12:38 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 2/01/2026 6:46 pm, Noddy wrote:

    Yeah, that's right. Like people who, when an intermittent fault >>>>>>> with an error code that cannot be retrieved can't get the fault >>>>>>> to occur when they're looking at the vehicle do a bit of lateral >>>>>>> thinking and swap parts around to see if the fault follows the
    swap the next time it occurs which will positively identify the >>>>>>> cause.


    LOL, lateral thinking back to the 70's and all you know - part
    swapping in hope and ignorance.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Part substitution is a *legitimate* diagnostic tool!. Always has
    been,always will be!.

    If you know what you are doing, it can be the fastest and most
    economical method of diagnosing some faults.




    Can be, but not in the specific example he gave.

    In fact his example didn't even make any sense to do that as the first
    option which was the whole point I was making.

    But as soon as he said he hadn't even bothered to plug in the very tool
    that could have easily diagnose the fault I knew all I ever need to know.

    His story was BS or he is grossly incompetent or most likely both.
    --
    In thread "May need to buy petrol soon" Sept 23 2021 11:15:59am
    Keithr0 wrote: "He made the assertion either he proves it or he is a
    proven liar."

    On Sept 23 2021 3:16:29pm Keithr0 wrote:
    "He asserts that the claim is true, so, if it is unproven, he is lying."
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Xeno@xenolith@optusnet.com.au to aus.cars on Mon Jan 5 15:11:22 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 5/1/2026 2:17 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 12:10 pm, alvey wrote:
    keithr0 wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 6:10 am, alvey wrote:
    Noddy wrote:
    On 4/01/2026 10:14 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 4/01/2026 10:41 am, Clocky wrote:

    Bzzzzt. Another comprehension failure on your part. I said I
    couldn't speak a word of English when I was 9. I didn't say I was >>>>>>> 9 when I started school here and it wasn't 1982 anyway.

    That seems odd, I've visited the land of your birth several times, >>>>>> and have rarely met anybody who couldn't speak English. I've asked >>>>>> a couple of them why that is, the answer always was that they
    started learning it as soon as they started school. So, I would
    have thought that, unless you were particularly thick, you'd have >>>>>> at least a basic understanding of English after at least 3 years
    of school.

    It's getting to the point where you can't believe a word the bloke
    says. Just like his mental mate.

    Must be something about the Dutch :)

    And something about you pair is that you are both lazy and stupid.

    So because Retcho allegedly got told something by a couple of clog-
    wogs in the street then that's conclusive proof of the Dutch
    education system. Jaysus wept! You pair are ridiculous.

    The "Clogwogs" are rather more likely to know something about the
    subject than you or your "AI". Jaysus wept! You are ridiculous.

    Right. So I quote a fact and you post the *alleged* verbals of a
    couple of unknowns and I'm "ridiculous"? Lol.

    You did not post a fact, you posted the output of some unknown "AI". If

    The AI provides links. Care to peruse them?

    https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/09571736.2017.1382053#d1e245

    https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/weng.12648

    https://multilingual-families.com/foreign-language-education-in-dutch-schools-what-multilingual-families-should-know/

    you think that I stopped some random "Clogwogs" in the street, you are

    We are referring to an event prior to 1986 when Clocky was obviously
    younger than the age that learning English became compulsory. You are inferring that Clocky learnt English at school, he states that he
    didn't. He should know if he knew English at age 8 or not.

    even more stupid that I have given you credit for, these were
    intelligent people with whom I had a social relationship, far more
    reliable than some anonymous clown from the Sunshine Coast.

    BTW, your use of the term "Clogwogs" is both demeaning to your friend clocky, and possibly in breach of hate speech laws.

    Uh, no, I refer to myself as a clogwog. Not at all *demeaned* by it's
    use. FYI, any word or phrase can be demeaning depending on *how*,
    *where* or *why* it is directed.


    Fyi, Mr AI says that "English is routinely taught in Dutch primary
    schools, with a legal requirement for it to start by group 7 (around
    age 10-11)...".

    Note the words *legal requirement* nothing prevents schools from
    starting teaching English at an earlier stage.

    Well done! You can read! It also said that schools didn't have to
    start teaching English until "age 10-11". ie Older than Clock was when
    he lobbed here. DO YOU COMPREHEND THIS RITCHO?

    That is a completely stupid statement, that fact that they don't have to doesn't mean that they don't. CAN YOU COMPREHEND THIS ALVO?

    Well played boys.

    Not so well played Alv.

    lol!
    You're only saying that because you, like Brave Sir Runaway, are
    incapable of admitting that you stuffed up.

    Look in the mirror and see who stuffed up.

    --
    Xeno

    Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
    (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From keithr0@me@bugger.off.com.au to aus.cars on Mon Jan 5 14:14:03 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 5/01/2026 1:58 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 11:17 am, keithr0 wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 12:10 pm, alvey wrote:
    keithr0 wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 6:10 am, alvey wrote:
    Noddy wrote:
    On 4/01/2026 10:14 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 4/01/2026 10:41 am, Clocky wrote:

    Bzzzzt. Another comprehension failure on your part. I said I
    couldn't speak a word of English when I was 9. I didn't say I >>>>>>>> was 9 when I started school here and it wasn't 1982 anyway.

    That seems odd, I've visited the land of your birth several
    times, and have rarely met anybody who couldn't speak English.
    I've asked a couple of them why that is, the answer always was
    that they started learning it as soon as they started school. So, >>>>>>> I would have thought that, unless you were particularly thick,
    you'd have at least a basic understanding of English after at
    least 3 years of school.

    It's getting to the point where you can't believe a word the bloke >>>>>> says. Just like his mental mate.

    Must be something about the Dutch :)

    And something about you pair is that you are both lazy and stupid.

    So because Retcho allegedly got told something by a couple of clog- >>>>> wogs in the street then that's conclusive proof of the Dutch
    education system. Jaysus wept! You pair are ridiculous.

    The "Clogwogs" are rather more likely to know something about the
    subject than you or your "AI". Jaysus wept! You are ridiculous.

    Right. So I quote a fact and you post the *alleged* verbals of a
    couple of unknowns and I'm "ridiculous"? Lol.

    You did not post a fact, you posted the output of some unknown "AI".
    If you think that I stopped some random "Clogwogs" in the street, you
    are even more stupid that I have given you credit for, these were
    intelligent people with whom I had a social relationship, far more
    reliable than some anonymous clown from the Sunshine Coast.


    Irrelevant. You made the statement that I should have been taught
    English in early primary school based on the statement of two unknown individuals of unknown age and have been shown why that is false.

    Nope upright Dutch citizens, with no reason to lie.

    You can't admit the basis of your comment was false and are failing to squirm your way out of your predicament.

    Nope, no predicament.

    BTW, your use of the term "Clogwogs" is both demeaning to your friend
    clocky, and possibly in breach of hate speech laws.> No need to get offended on my behalf you ridiculous prat. I call myself
    a "Clogwog" too.

    Interesting, it would probably be different if some-one other than a
    member of your little cult had said it.

    You could offer an apology for your baseless slur if you had any integrity.

    Baseless slur?

    Fyi, Mr AI says that "English is routinely taught in Dutch primary
    schools, with a legal requirement for it to start by group 7
    (around age 10-11)...".

    Note the words *legal requirement* nothing prevents schools from
    starting teaching English at an earlier stage.

    Well done! You can read! It also said that schools didn't have to
    start teaching English until "age 10-11". ie Older than Clock was
    when he lobbed here. DO YOU COMPREHEND THIS RITCHO?

    That is a completely stupid statement, that fact that they don't have
    to doesn't mean that they don't. CAN YOU COMPREHEND THIS ALVO?


    They didn't in the 70's. Ask me how I know...


    Well played boys.

    Not so well played Alv.

    lol!
    You're only saying that because you, like Brave Sir Runaway, are
    incapable of admitting that you stuffed up.

    Look in the mirror and see who stuffed up.






    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Clocky@notgonna@happen.com to aus.cars on Mon Jan 5 12:14:47 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 4/01/2026 6:32 pm, Noddy wrote:
    On 4/01/2026 8:33 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 3/01/2026 4:34 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:

    EFI *specifically* made cars more reliable, more efficient and more
    powerful (though some of the very early EFI systems also had
    reliability issues).

    However, to broadly suggest that mechanical distributors, points, low
    energy ignition systems and carbs were just as reliable as EFI is
    laughable.

    You wouldn't know Junior. They are before your time :)



    Nyuk.
    --
    In thread "May need to buy petrol soon" Sept 23 2021 11:15:59am
    Keithr0 wrote: "He made the assertion either he proves it or he is a
    proven liar."

    On Sept 23 2021 3:16:29pm Keithr0 wrote:
    "He asserts that the claim is true, so, if it is unproven, he is lying."
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From keithr0@me@bugger.off.com.au to aus.cars on Mon Jan 5 14:15:59 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 5/01/2026 1:37 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 9:23 am, keithr0 wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 6:10 am, alvey wrote:
    Noddy wrote:
    On 4/01/2026 10:14 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 4/01/2026 10:41 am, Clocky wrote:

    Bzzzzt. Another comprehension failure on your part. I said I
    couldn't speak a word of English when I was 9. I didn't say I was >>>>>> 9 when I started school here and it wasn't 1982 anyway.

    That seems odd, I've visited the land of your birth several times,
    and have rarely met anybody who couldn't speak English. I've asked
    a couple of them why that is, the answer always was that they
    started learning it as soon as they started school. So, I would
    have thought that, unless you were particularly thick, you'd have
    at least a basic understanding of English after at least 3 years of >>>>> school.

    It's getting to the point where you can't believe a word the bloke
    says. Just like his mental mate.

    Must be something about the Dutch :)

    And something about you pair is that you are both lazy and stupid.

    So because Retcho allegedly got told something by a couple of clog-
    wogs in the street then that's conclusive proof of the Dutch
    education system. Jaysus wept! You pair are ridiculous.

    The "Clogwogs" are rather more likely to know something about the
    subject than you or your "AI". Jaysus wept! You are ridiculous.


    We know nothig about your "Clogwogs" except that you probably invented
    them.

    Unlike you, I don't invent lies.

    Fyi, Mr AI says that "English is routinely taught in Dutch primary
    schools, with a legal requirement for it to start by group 7 (around
    age 10-11)...".

    Note the words *legal requirement* nothing prevents schools from
    starting teaching English at an earlier stage.


    Not in the 70's when I went to school in NL you fool. You were more
    likely to learn French or German before you learned English and not
    before age 10 anyway.


    Well played boys.

    Not so well played Alv.




    You fucked up and you know it.




    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Xeno@xenolith@optusnet.com.au to aus.cars on Mon Jan 5 15:16:29 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 5/1/2026 3:08 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 9:28 am, keithr0 wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 10:57 am, jonz wrote:
    On 04-Jan-26 12:38 PM, Clocky wrote:
    On 3/01/2026 8:52 pm, alvey wrote:
    Noddy wrote:
    On 3/01/2026 12:38 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 2/01/2026 6:46 pm, Noddy wrote:

    Yeah, that's right. Like people who, when an intermittent fault >>>>>>>> with an error code that cannot be retrieved can't get the fault >>>>>>>> to occur when they're looking at the vehicle do a bit of lateral >>>>>>>> thinking and swap parts around to see if the fault follows the >>>>>>>> swap the next time it occurs which will positively identify the >>>>>>>> cause.


    LOL, lateral thinking back to the 70's and all you know - part
    swapping in hope and ignorance.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Part substitution is a *legitimate* diagnostic tool!. Always has
    been,always will be!.

    If you know what you are doing, it can be the fastest and most
    economical method of diagnosing some faults.




    Can be, but not in the specific example he gave.

    In fact his example didn't even make any sense to do that as the first option which was the whole point I was making.

    In fact Darren's example appeared to be quite contrived. Probably had
    its gestation in one of his random delusions.

    But as soon as he said he hadn't even bothered to plug in the very tool
    that could have easily diagnose the fault I knew all I ever need to know.

    His story was BS or he is grossly incompetent or most likely both.

    Definitely both, no doubt about it.
    --
    Xeno

    Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
    (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Clocky@notgonna@happen.com to aus.cars on Mon Jan 5 12:29:12 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 5/01/2026 12:14 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 1:58 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 11:17 am, keithr0 wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 12:10 pm, alvey wrote:
    keithr0 wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 6:10 am, alvey wrote:
    Noddy wrote:
    On 4/01/2026 10:14 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 4/01/2026 10:41 am, Clocky wrote:

    Bzzzzt. Another comprehension failure on your part. I said I >>>>>>>>> couldn't speak a word of English when I was 9. I didn't say I >>>>>>>>> was 9 when I started school here and it wasn't 1982 anyway.

    That seems odd, I've visited the land of your birth several
    times, and have rarely met anybody who couldn't speak English. >>>>>>>> I've asked a couple of them why that is, the answer always was >>>>>>>> that they started learning it as soon as they started school. >>>>>>>> So, I would have thought that, unless you were particularly
    thick, you'd have at least a basic understanding of English
    after at least 3 years of school.

    It's getting to the point where you can't believe a word the
    bloke says. Just like his mental mate.

    Must be something about the Dutch :)

    And something about you pair is that you are both lazy and stupid. >>>>>>
    So because Retcho allegedly got told something by a couple of
    clog- wogs in the street then that's conclusive proof of the Dutch >>>>>> education system. Jaysus wept! You pair are ridiculous.

    The "Clogwogs" are rather more likely to know something about the
    subject than you or your "AI". Jaysus wept! You are ridiculous.

    Right. So I quote a fact and you post the *alleged* verbals of a
    couple of unknowns and I'm "ridiculous"? Lol.

    You did not post a fact, you posted the output of some unknown "AI".
    If you think that I stopped some random "Clogwogs" in the street, you
    are even more stupid that I have given you credit for, these were
    intelligent people with whom I had a social relationship, far more
    reliable than some anonymous clown from the Sunshine Coast.


    Irrelevant. You made the statement that I should have been taught
    English in early primary school based on the statement of two unknown
    individuals of unknown age and have been shown why that is false.

    Nope upright Dutch citizens, with no reason to lie.


    "I've asked a couple of them why that is, the answer always was
    that they started learning it as soon as they started school."

    Not in the 70's they most certainly didn't and if so not until the early
    90's and you have been shown why that is.

    Of course you could just have made them up...

    You can't admit the basis of your comment was false and are failing to
    squirm your way out of your predicament.

    Nope, no predicament.


    100% a predicament because your statement is false.

    BTW, your use of the term "Clogwogs" is both demeaning to your friend
    clocky, and possibly in breach of hate speech laws.> No need to get
    offended on my behalf you ridiculous prat. I call myself
    a "Clogwog" too.

    Interesting, it would probably be different if some-one other than a
    member of your little cult had said it.


    Not at all. Feel free to refer to me as a "Clogwog" keith.

    You could offer an apology for your baseless slur if you had any
    integrity.

    Baseless slur?


    100%.
    --
    In thread "May need to buy petrol soon" Sept 23 2021 11:15:59am
    Keithr0 wrote: "He made the assertion either he proves it or he is a
    proven liar."

    On Sept 23 2021 3:16:29pm Keithr0 wrote:
    "He asserts that the claim is true, so, if it is unproven, he is lying."
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Clocky@notgonna@happen.com to aus.cars on Mon Jan 5 12:37:53 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 5/01/2026 12:15 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 1:37 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 9:23 am, keithr0 wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 6:10 am, alvey wrote:
    Noddy wrote:
    On 4/01/2026 10:14 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 4/01/2026 10:41 am, Clocky wrote:

    Bzzzzt. Another comprehension failure on your part. I said I
    couldn't speak a word of English when I was 9. I didn't say I was >>>>>>> 9 when I started school here and it wasn't 1982 anyway.

    That seems odd, I've visited the land of your birth several times, >>>>>> and have rarely met anybody who couldn't speak English. I've asked >>>>>> a couple of them why that is, the answer always was that they
    started learning it as soon as they started school. So, I would
    have thought that, unless you were particularly thick, you'd have >>>>>> at least a basic understanding of English after at least 3 years
    of school.

    It's getting to the point where you can't believe a word the bloke
    says. Just like his mental mate.

    Must be something about the Dutch :)

    And something about you pair is that you are both lazy and stupid.

    So because Retcho allegedly got told something by a couple of clog-
    wogs in the street then that's conclusive proof of the Dutch
    education system. Jaysus wept! You pair are ridiculous.

    The "Clogwogs" are rather more likely to know something about the
    subject than you or your "AI". Jaysus wept! You are ridiculous.


    We know nothig about your "Clogwogs" except that you probably invented
    them.

    Unlike you, I don't invent lies.


    In that case you need to provide greater details of your Clogwogs to
    determine why they might have made that comment which doesn't apply to
    anyone who was schooled in NL in the 70's and under age 10.
    --
    In thread "May need to buy petrol soon" Sept 23 2021 11:15:59am
    Keithr0 wrote: "He made the assertion either he proves it or he is a
    proven liar."

    On Sept 23 2021 3:16:29pm Keithr0 wrote:
    "He asserts that the claim is true, so, if it is unproven, he is lying."
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Clocky@notgonna@happen.com to aus.cars on Mon Jan 5 12:41:13 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 5/01/2026 12:16 pm, Xeno wrote:
    On 5/1/2026 3:08 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 9:28 am, keithr0 wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 10:57 am, jonz wrote:
    On 04-Jan-26 12:38 PM, Clocky wrote:
    On 3/01/2026 8:52 pm, alvey wrote:
    Noddy wrote:
    On 3/01/2026 12:38 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 2/01/2026 6:46 pm, Noddy wrote:

    Yeah, that's right. Like people who, when an intermittent fault >>>>>>>>> with an error code that cannot be retrieved can't get the fault >>>>>>>>> to occur when they're looking at the vehicle do a bit of
    lateral thinking and swap parts around to see if the fault
    follows the swap the next time it occurs which will positively >>>>>>>>> identify the cause.


    LOL, lateral thinking back to the 70's and all you know - part >>>>>>>> swapping in hope and ignorance.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Part substitution is a *legitimate* diagnostic tool!. Always has
    been,always will be!.

    If you know what you are doing, it can be the fastest and most
    economical method of diagnosing some faults.




    Can be, but not in the specific example he gave.

    In fact his example didn't even make any sense to do that as the first
    option which was the whole point I was making.

    In fact Darren's example appeared to be quite contrived. Probably had
    its gestation in one of his random delusions.

    But as soon as he said he hadn't even bothered to plug in the very
    tool that could have easily diagnose the fault I knew all I ever need
    to know.

    His story was BS or he is grossly incompetent or most likely both.

    Definitely both, no doubt about it.


    The story was good enough to fool enablers Jonz and Keith but they have
    no experience with EFI systems nor are they critical thinkers.
    --
    In thread "May need to buy petrol soon" Sept 23 2021 11:15:59am
    Keithr0 wrote: "He made the assertion either he proves it or he is a
    proven liar."

    On Sept 23 2021 3:16:29pm Keithr0 wrote:
    "He asserts that the claim is true, so, if it is unproven, he is lying."
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From jonz@Nothere@oroverthere.com to aus.cars on Mon Jan 5 15:42:05 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 05-Jan-26 3:08 PM, Clocky wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 9:28 am, keithr0 wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 10:57 am, jonz wrote:
    On 04-Jan-26 12:38 PM, Clocky wrote:
    On 3/01/2026 8:52 pm, alvey wrote:
    Noddy wrote:
    On 3/01/2026 12:38 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 2/01/2026 6:46 pm, Noddy wrote:

    Yeah, that's right. Like people who, when an intermittent fault >>>>>>>> with an error code that cannot be retrieved can't get the fault >>>>>>>> to occur when they're looking at the vehicle do a bit of lateral >>>>>>>> thinking and swap parts around to see if the fault follows the >>>>>>>> swap the next time it occurs which will positively identify the >>>>>>>> cause.


    LOL, lateral thinking back to the 70's and all you know - part
    swapping in hope and ignorance.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Part substitution is a *legitimate* diagnostic tool!. Always has
    been,always will be!.

    If you know what you are doing, it can be the fastest and most
    economical method of diagnosing some faults.




    Can be, but not in the specific example he gave.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Can be?. Its Absolutely *useless*!, according to you a few posts bacK:


    "LOL, lateral thinking back to the 70's and all you know - part swapping
    in hope and ignorance."

    XenoKrypy type flip-flopping does *not* work. >
    In fact his example didn't even make any sense to do that as the first option which was the whole point I was making.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Was not the first option. (Correct moi if wrong) The fault occurred but
    *once*
    As usual you don`t have any point!.>
    But as soon as he said he hadn't even bothered to plug in the very tool
    that could have easily diagnose the fault I knew all I ever need to know.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Yer M/O. Stay ignorant.
    >
    His story was BS or he is grossly incompetent or most likely both.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    So, typical you.. Finish with an *out*....:)>
    --
    Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea--Massive,
    difficult to redirect, awe inspiring, entertaining and a source of mind boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it!!!!. Gene Spafford
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From jonz@Nothere@oroverthere.com to aus.cars on Mon Jan 5 16:16:20 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 05-Jan-26 3:41 PM, Clocky wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 12:16 pm, Xeno wrote:
    On 5/1/2026 3:08 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 9:28 am, keithr0 wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 10:57 am, jonz wrote:
    On 04-Jan-26 12:38 PM, Clocky wrote:
    On 3/01/2026 8:52 pm, alvey wrote:
    Noddy wrote:
    On 3/01/2026 12:38 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 2/01/2026 6:46 pm, Noddy wrote:

    Yeah, that's right. Like people who, when an intermittent >>>>>>>>>> fault with an error code that cannot be retrieved can't get >>>>>>>>>> the fault to occur when they're looking at the vehicle do a >>>>>>>>>> bit of lateral thinking and swap parts around to see if the >>>>>>>>>> fault follows the swap the next time it occurs which will >>>>>>>>>> positively identify the cause.


    LOL, lateral thinking back to the 70's and all you know - part >>>>>>>>> swapping in hope and ignorance.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Part substitution is a *legitimate* diagnostic tool!. Always has
    been,always will be!.

    If you know what you are doing, it can be the fastest and most
    economical method of diagnosing some faults.




    Can be, but not in the specific example he gave.

    In fact his example didn't even make any sense to do that as the
    first option which was the whole point I was making.

    In fact Darren's example appeared to be quite contrived. Probably had
    its gestation in one of his random delusions.

    But as soon as he said he hadn't even bothered to plug in the very
    tool that could have easily diagnose the fault I knew all I ever need
    to know.

    His story was BS or he is grossly incompetent or most likely both.

    Definitely both, no doubt about it.


    The story was good enough to fool enablers Jonz and Keith but they have
    no experience with EFI systems nor are they critical thinkers.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Three (3) strikes, yer *out* windy... :)
    Don`t let the door slam you on the arse on the way!. :):):)>


    --
    Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea--Massive,
    difficult to redirect, awe inspiring, entertaining and a source of mind boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it!!!!. Gene Spafford
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From jonz@Nothere@oroverthere.com to aus.cars on Mon Jan 5 17:20:09 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 05-Jan-26 3:37 PM, Clocky wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 12:15 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 1:37 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 9:23 am, keithr0 wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 6:10 am, alvey wrote:
    Noddy wrote:
    On 4/01/2026 10:14 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 4/01/2026 10:41 am, Clocky wrote:

    Bzzzzt. Another comprehension failure on your part. I said I
    couldn't speak a word of English when I was 9. I didn't say I >>>>>>>> was 9 when I started school here and it wasn't 1982 anyway.

    That seems odd, I've visited the land of your birth several
    times, and have rarely met anybody who couldn't speak English.
    I've asked a couple of them why that is, the answer always was
    that they started learning it as soon as they started school. So, >>>>>>> I would have thought that, unless you were particularly thick,
    you'd have at least a basic understanding of English after at
    least 3 years of school.

    It's getting to the point where you can't believe a word the bloke >>>>>> says. Just like his mental mate.

    Must be something about the Dutch :)

    And something about you pair is that you are both lazy and stupid.

    So because Retcho allegedly got told something by a couple of clog- >>>>> wogs in the street then that's conclusive proof of the Dutch
    education system. Jaysus wept! You pair are ridiculous.

    The "Clogwogs" are rather more likely to know something about the
    subject than you or your "AI". Jaysus wept! You are ridiculous.


    We know nothig about your "Clogwogs" except that you probably
    invented them.

    Unlike you, I don't invent lies.


    In that case you need to provide greater details of your Clogwogs to determine why they might have made that comment which doesn't apply to anyone who was schooled in NL in the 70's and under age 10.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    "The lady doth protest too much methinks" >>>>>>










    --
    Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea--Massive,
    difficult to redirect, awe inspiring, entertaining and a source of mind boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it!!!!. Gene Spafford
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From alvey@Factman@gmail.com to aus.cars on Mon Jan 5 17:00:40 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    keithr0 wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 12:10 pm, alvey wrote:
    keithr0 wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 6:10 am, alvey wrote:
    Noddy wrote:
    On 4/01/2026 10:14 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 4/01/2026 10:41 am, Clocky wrote:

    Bzzzzt. Another comprehension failure on your part. I said I
    couldn't speak a word of English when I was 9. I didn't say I was >>>>>>> 9 when I started school here and it wasn't 1982 anyway.

    That seems odd, I've visited the land of your birth several times, >>>>>> and have rarely met anybody who couldn't speak English. I've asked >>>>>> a couple of them why that is, the answer always was that they
    started learning it as soon as they started school. So, I would
    have thought that, unless you were particularly thick, you'd have >>>>>> at least a basic understanding of English after at least 3 years
    of school.

    It's getting to the point where you can't believe a word the bloke
    says. Just like his mental mate.

    Must be something about the Dutch :)

    And something about you pair is that you are both lazy and stupid.

    So because Retcho allegedly got told something by a couple of clog-
    wogs in the street then that's conclusive proof of the Dutch
    education system. Jaysus wept! You pair are ridiculous.

    The "Clogwogs" are rather more likely to know something about the
    subject than you or your "AI". Jaysus wept! You are ridiculous.

    Right. So I quote a fact and you post the *alleged* verbals of a
    couple of unknowns and I'm "ridiculous"? Lol.

    You did not post a fact, you posted the output of some unknown "AI".

    AI may not be perfect Ritcho but, a) it's *very* unlikely to invent
    something as specific as I quoted, and b) it's many, many shedloads more credible than you and your couple of *alleged* average Johanns. I also
    found a few other sites which agreed with Mr AI so, as I said, make you
    and Fraudster look both stupid and lazy.


    If you think that I stopped some random "Clogwogs" in the street, you are even more stupid that I have given you credit for, these were
    intelligent people with whom I had a social relationship, far more
    reliable than some anonymous clown from the Sunshine Coast.

    Ahhh. The old 'Fail'n'Flail' responsee of the desperate.

    BTW, your use of the term "Clogwogs" is both demeaning to your friend clocky, and possibly in breach of hate speech laws.

    What rubbish.
    And not that it matters, but I picked up the term from a Dutch born and
    raised woman I was friendly with back in the day.


    Fyi, Mr AI says that "English is routinely taught in Dutch primary
    schools, with a legal requirement for it to start by group 7 (around
    age 10-11)...".

    Note the words *legal requirement* nothing prevents schools from
    starting teaching English at an earlier stage.

    Well done! You can read! It also said that schools didn't have to
    start teaching English until "age 10-11". ie Older than Clock was when
    he lobbed here. DO YOU COMPREHEND THIS RITCHO?

    That is a completely stupid statement, that fact that they don't have to doesn't mean that they don't. CAN YOU COMPREHEND THIS ALVO?

    I've forwarded your name on to the Briz City Council as a cheap
    alternative to those expensive tunnel diggers should they require one
    for any future projects they have. They're bound to be impressed by your talent.

    Well played boys.

    Not so well played Alv.

    lol!
    You're only saying that because you, like Brave Sir Runaway, are
    incapable of admitting that you stuffed up.

    Look in the mirror and see who stuffed up.

    Nope. Can't see a damned thing Richo. Apu, you're standing in front of it.
    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Noddy@me@home.com to aus.cars on Mon Jan 5 18:07:23 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 5/01/2026 12:25 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 10:59 am, Xeno wrote:

    In Thailand English has become mandatory in primary school from 4th
    grade. I know because I was lumbered with a composite English class
    (4-5-6) way back in 97. The reason for that is the limited spread of
    Thai Language - not much use outside of Thailand or Laos.

    Completely irrelevant.

    Yep. Unless Jerky came from Thailand I don't see how this ridiculous
    comment is even *remotely* relevant to anything being discussed. But
    then we all know how relevance isn't his bag. As long as he can waffle
    about *anything* it doesn't matter.
    --
    --
    --
    Regards,
    Noddy.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Noddy@me@home.com to aus.cars on Mon Jan 5 18:07:36 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 5/01/2026 1:53 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 4/01/2026 9:37 am, Noddy wrote:

    Bzzzzt. Are you sure I said I "witnessed" it? I could have witnessed
    for more than one reason but are you sure I actually said that or are
    you fabricating that part?

    Forget it Jerky.

    Not a chance.

    -aYour bullshit has been noted.

    So post a link and prove it.

    It's all on the record, and I'm sure you've still got a copy of it in
    your "sent" folder. But it wouldn't matter if I posted it or not, as
    you'll just claim that what was meant was different to what was posted,
    just like you did with your "Paid off my house in 6 years" bullshit
    comment when boasting about how many ECU's you repaired.

    I'm actually surprised you never brought that point up in replying to
    Trevor about his claims that modern electronically controlled cars are
    uber reliable compared to older ones. If ECU's were as unreliable and
    needed repair as often as *you* made out I'm genuinely surprised that
    there are any modern cars still running :)
    --
    --
    --
    Regards,
    Noddy.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From alvey@Factman@gmail.com to aus.cars on Mon Jan 5 17:08:33 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    Clocky wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 4:10 am, alvey wrote:
    Noddy wrote:
    On 4/01/2026 10:14 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 4/01/2026 10:41 am, Clocky wrote:

    Bzzzzt. Another comprehension failure on your part. I said I
    couldn't speak a word of English when I was 9. I didn't say I was 9 >>>>> when I started school here and it wasn't 1982 anyway.

    That seems odd, I've visited the land of your birth several times,
    and have rarely met anybody who couldn't speak English. I've asked a
    couple of them why that is, the answer always was that they started
    learning it as soon as they started school. So, I would have thought
    that, unless you were particularly thick, you'd have at least a
    basic understanding of English after at least 3 years of school.

    It's getting to the point where you can't believe a word the bloke
    says. Just like his mental mate.

    Must be something about the Dutch :)

    And something about you pair is that you are both lazy and stupid.

    So because Retcho allegedly got told something by a couple of
    clog-wogs in the street then that's conclusive proof of the Dutch
    education system. Jaysus wept! You pair are ridiculous.

    Fyi, Mr AI says that "English is routinely taught in Dutch primary
    schools, with a legal requirement for it to start by group 7 (around
    age 10-11)...".


    *and* only since 1986 - when I was already here and fluent in English.
    In fact had I stayed on I would have learned French/German first and
    English only in secondary school.

    So it's a comprehensive stuff-up by Richo, all that remains is for him
    to admit it...
    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Noddy@me@home.com to aus.cars on Mon Jan 5 18:08:56 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 5/01/2026 12:28 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 10:57 am, jonz wrote:
    On 04-Jan-26 12:38 PM, Clocky wrote:

    LOL, lateral thinking back to the 70's and all you know - part
    swapping in hope and ignorance.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Part substitution is a *legitimate* diagnostic tool!. Always has
    been,always will be!.

    If you know what you are doing, it can be the fastest and most
    economical method of diagnosing some faults.

    Apparently our two resident licensed experts don't know what they're
    doing :)
    --
    --
    --
    Regards,
    Noddy.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Noddy@me@home.com to aus.cars on Mon Jan 5 18:16:13 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 5/01/2026 3:08 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 9:28 am, keithr0 wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 10:57 am, jonz wrote:

    Part substitution is a *legitimate* diagnostic tool!. Always has
    been,always will be!.

    If you know what you are doing, it can be the fastest and most
    economical method of diagnosing some faults.




    Can be, but not in the specific example he gave.

    And yet it pinpointed the fault and solved the problem. Go figure.

    In fact his example didn't even make any sense to do that as the first option which was the whole point I was making.

    You never had a point, other than to demonstrate that you had zero understanding of the workings of OBD2.

    But as soon as he said he hadn't even bothered to plug in the very tool
    that could have easily diagnose the fault I knew all I ever need to know.

    Again, you cannot recall codes that have been permanently deleted once
    the engine has gone through the minimum number of start cycles without
    the fault reoccurring, and I challenge you to cite *any* reference that
    shows this as *not* being the case.

    His story was BS or he is grossly incompetent or most likely both.

    The only person who is both incompetent *and* full of bullshit on this
    matter is you. You have demonstrated an absolute and total lack of understanding not only of the way the system works, but your idea of
    using long term fuel trims to accurately diagnose a momentary misfire
    was laughable in the extreme.

    You are completely clueless, which is why you screw on mudflaps and
    snorkels for a living.
    --
    --
    --
    Regards,
    Noddy.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Noddy@me@home.com to aus.cars on Mon Jan 5 18:17:57 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 5/01/2026 2:17 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 12:10 pm, alvey wrote:

    Right. So I quote a fact and you post the *alleged* verbals of a
    couple of unknowns and I'm "ridiculous"? Lol.

    You did not post a fact, you posted the output of some unknown "AI". If
    you think that I stopped some random "Clogwogs" in the street, you are
    even more stupid that I have given you credit for, these were
    intelligent people with whom I had a social relationship, far more
    reliable than some anonymous clown from the Sunshine Coast.

    ROTFL :)

    This pretty much sums up why we've never seen anything remotely
    resembling "proof" from this fucking idiot :)
    --
    --
    --
    Regards,
    Noddy.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Noddy@me@home.com to aus.cars on Mon Jan 5 18:20:44 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 5/01/2026 2:58 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 11:17 am, keithr0 wrote:


    You did not post a fact, you posted the output of some unknown "AI".
    If you think that I stopped some random "Clogwogs" in the street, you
    are even more stupid that I have given you credit for, these were
    intelligent people with whom I had a social relationship, far more
    reliable than some anonymous clown from the Sunshine Coast.


    Irrelevant. You made the statement that I should have been taught
    English in early primary school based on the statement of two unknown individuals of unknown age and have been shown why that is false.

    So answer a direct question. Did they teach English in schools during
    your time there, and what period are we talking about?

    You can't admit the basis of your comment was false and are failing to squirm your way out of your predicament.

    You're the one that can clear this up given you were there, but I'm
    tipping that you'll do your usual act of dancing around the subject
    rather than be definitive.

    BTW, your use of the term "Clogwogs" is both demeaning to your friend
    clocky, and possibly in breach of hate speech laws.


    No need to get offended on my behalf you ridiculous prat. I call myself
    a "Clogwog" too.

    Surely you can do better than that.
    --
    --
    --
    Regards,
    Noddy.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Xeno@xenolith@optusnet.com.au to aus.cars on Mon Jan 5 18:21:38 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 5/1/2026 6:07 pm, Noddy wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 12:25 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 10:59 am, Xeno wrote:

    In Thailand English has become mandatory in primary school from 4th
    grade. I know because I was lumbered with a composite English class
    (4-5-6) way back in 97. The reason for that is the limited spread of
    Thai Language - not much use outside of Thailand or Laos.

    Completely irrelevant.

    Yep. Unless Jerky came from Thailand I don't see how this ridiculous
    comment is even *remotely* relevant to anything being discussed. But
    then we all know how relevance isn't his bag. As long as he can waffle
    about *anything* it doesn't matter.

    It just makes the point Darren that English classes typically start at
    around grade 4 or when students are ~10 years of age. It supports Clocky
    in that Thailand does exactly the same as The Netherlands.

    So, my point isn't waffle and it does matter. What more, it is
    *relevant* to the discussion at hand, this being a concept that escapes you!
    --
    Xeno

    Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
    (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Xeno@xenolith@optusnet.com.au to aus.cars on Mon Jan 5 18:28:21 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 5/1/2026 6:16 pm, Noddy wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 3:08 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 9:28 am, keithr0 wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 10:57 am, jonz wrote:

    Part substitution is a *legitimate* diagnostic tool!. Always has
    been,always will be!.

    If you know what you are doing, it can be the fastest and most
    economical method of diagnosing some faults.




    Can be, but not in the specific example he gave.

    And yet it pinpointed the fault and solved the problem. Go figure.

    A problem created in your imagination *does not count* Darren.

    In fact his example didn't even make any sense to do that as the first
    option which was the whole point I was making.

    You never had a point, other than to demonstrate that you had zero understanding of the workings of OBD2.

    You clearly demonstrated that Darren when you invented an unlikely
    scenario. You see, if the situation had presented itself as you stated,
    it would have automatically generated *permanent DTCs*, it's the way the
    OBD2 system has been designed to work - protect the cat at all costs

    But as soon as he said he hadn't even bothered to plug in the very
    tool that could have easily diagnose the fault I knew all I ever need
    to know.

    Again, you cannot recall codes that have been permanently deleted once
    the engine has gone through the minimum number of start cycles without
    the fault reoccurring, and I challenge you to cite *any* reference that shows this as *not* being the case.

    You cannot delete a permanent code, it stays, you can't delete it, you
    don't go anywhere.

    His story was BS or he is grossly incompetent or most likely both.

    The only person who is both incompetent *and* full of bullshit on this matter is you. You have demonstrated an absolute and total lack of understanding not only of the way the system works, but your idea of
    using long term fuel trims to accurately diagnose a momentary misfire
    was laughable in the extreme.

    You are completely clueless, which is why you screw on mudflaps and
    snorkels for a living.



    --
    Xeno

    Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
    (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Xeno@xenolith@optusnet.com.au to aus.cars on Mon Jan 5 18:29:33 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 5/1/2026 6:17 pm, Noddy wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 2:17 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 12:10 pm, alvey wrote:

    Right. So I quote a fact and you post the *alleged* verbals of a
    couple of unknowns and I'm "ridiculous"? Lol.

    You did not post a fact, you posted the output of some unknown "AI".
    If you think that I stopped some random "Clogwogs" in the street, you
    are even more stupid that I have given you credit for, these were
    intelligent people with whom I had a social relationship, far more
    reliable than some anonymous clown from the Sunshine Coast.

    ROTFL :)

    This pretty much sums up why we've never seen anything remotely
    resembling "proof" from this fucking idiot :)

    Never seen anything remotely resembling "proof" from *YOU*!
    --
    Xeno

    Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
    (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Noddy@me@home.com to aus.cars on Mon Jan 5 18:30:43 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 5/01/2026 3:29 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 12:14 pm, keithr0 wrote:

    Irrelevant. You made the statement that I should have been taught
    English in early primary school based on the statement of two unknown
    individuals of unknown age and have been shown why that is false.

    Nope upright Dutch citizens, with no reason to lie.


    "I've asked a couple of them why that is, the answer always was
    that they started learning it as soon as they started school."

    Not in the 70's they most certainly didn't and if so not until the early 90's and you have been shown why that is.

    The wiki article on the subject:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language_in_the_Netherlands

    And here:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_education_by_region

    It would appear that English is a very common language in that part of
    the world, and has been part of the school curriculum for longer than
    you make out :)
    --
    --
    --
    Regards,
    Noddy.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Xeno@xenolith@optusnet.com.au to aus.cars on Mon Jan 5 18:31:31 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 5/1/2026 6:20 pm, Noddy wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 2:58 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 11:17 am, keithr0 wrote:


    You did not post a fact, you posted the output of some unknown "AI".
    If you think that I stopped some random "Clogwogs" in the street, you
    are even more stupid that I have given you credit for, these were
    intelligent people with whom I had a social relationship, far more
    reliable than some anonymous clown from the Sunshine Coast.


    Irrelevant. You made the statement that I should have been taught
    English in early primary school based on the statement of two unknown
    individuals of unknown age and have been shown why that is false.

    So answer a direct question. Did they teach English in schools during
    your time there, and what period are we talking about?

    He already answered that question. If I recall it was a firm *NO*.

    You can't admit the basis of your comment was false and are failing to
    squirm your way out of your predicament.

    You're the one that can clear this up given you were there, but I'm
    tipping that you'll do your usual act of dancing around the subject
    rather than be definitive.

    BTW, your use of the term "Clogwogs" is both demeaning to your friend
    clocky, and possibly in breach of hate speech laws.


    No need to get offended on my behalf you ridiculous prat. I call
    myself a "Clogwog" too.

    Surely you can-a do better than that.


    --
    Xeno

    Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
    (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Xeno@xenolith@optusnet.com.au to aus.cars on Mon Jan 5 18:49:41 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 5/1/2026 6:30 pm, Noddy wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 3:29 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 12:14 pm, keithr0 wrote:

    Irrelevant. You made the statement that I should have been taught
    English in early primary school based on the statement of two
    unknown individuals of unknown age and have been shown why that is
    false.

    Nope upright Dutch citizens, with no reason to lie.


    "I've asked a couple of them why that is, the answer always was
    that they started learning it as soon as they started school."

    Not in the 70's they most certainly didn't and if so not until the
    early 90's and you have been shown why that is.

    The wiki article on the subject:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language_in_the_Netherlands

    Hmmm, nothing in that link mentions specific dates or eras, it mostly
    refers to the here and now. In fact, is still refers to children
    starting English classes at age 10 and up.

    And here:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_education_by_region

    From your own link. And that is reflective of *contemporary times*.
    Clocky was schooled in the 70s, hardly relevant to *now*.

    On average in Europe, at the start of foreign language teaching,
    pupils have lessons for three to four hours a week. Compulsory
    lessons in a foreign language normally start at the end of
    primary school or the start of secondary school.

    It would appear that English is a very common language in that part of

    *is*, not *was*. French and German were common in Clocky's time.

    the world, and has been part of the school curriculum for longer than
    you make out :)

    Nobody is arguing that Darren, the real issue is at what age. Clocky
    left the NL before he aged into compulsory English classes - and that is
    the point you cannot understand.

    And, as usual, Darren provides links that, he does not read, does not understand, show that Clocky is correct.
    --
    Xeno

    Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
    (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From alvey@Factman@gmail.com to aus.cars on Mon Jan 5 20:14:13 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    Noddy wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 3:29 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 12:14 pm, keithr0 wrote:

    Irrelevant. You made the statement that I should have been taught
    English in early primary school based on the statement of two
    unknown individuals of unknown age and have been shown why that is
    false.

    Nope upright Dutch citizens, with no reason to lie.


    "I've asked a couple of them why that is, the answer always was
    that they started learning it as soon as they started school."

    Not in the 70's they most certainly didn't and if so not until the
    early 90's and you have been shown why that is.

    The wiki article on the subject:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language_in_the_Netherlands

    Nice work Buffo. That piece does not have a single instance of anything
    which supports Ritcho's claim. It *does* however contain this nugget.
    "Many elementary schools teach English in the upper grades.". Note the
    "upper grades", this accords with the fact that I quoted earlier.

    And here:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_education_by_region

    And this one has zero relevance at all.

    It would appear that English is a very common language in that part of
    the world,

    No shit Sherlock.

    and has been part of the school curriculum for longer than
    you make out :)

    No-one is disputing that Buffo, it's Retcho's half-arsed assertion that
    Clock *must* have been taught it at school which is the issue.
    In the Netherlands, as distinct from "the region", French & German used
    to be the first preferred foreign language until 1968.


    hth
    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From alvey@Factman@gmail.com to aus.cars on Mon Jan 5 20:18:34 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    Noddy wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 2:58 pm, Clocky wrote:


    So answer a direct question.

    So you expect of others what you won't do yourself.
    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From alvey@Factman@gmail.com to aus.cars on Mon Jan 5 20:37:21 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    Noddy wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 2:17 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 12:10 pm, alvey wrote:

    Right. So I quote a fact and you post the *alleged* verbals of a
    couple of unknowns and I'm "ridiculous"? Lol.

    You did not post a fact, you posted the output of some unknown "AI".
    If you think that I stopped some random "Clogwogs" in the street, you
    are even more stupid that I have given you credit for, these were
    intelligent people with whom I had a social relationship, far more
    reliable than some anonymous clown from the Sunshine Coast.

    ROTFL :)

    This pretty much sums up why we've never seen anything remotely
    resembling "proof" from this fucking idiot :)

    Remember Fraudster... The use of collective pronouns is giveaway that
    you're insecure and desperate.
    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From alvey@Factman@gmail.com to aus.cars on Mon Jan 5 20:43:32 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    Xeno wrote:
    On 5/1/2026 6:17 pm, Noddy wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 2:17 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 12:10 pm, alvey wrote:

    Right. So I quote a fact and you post the *alleged* verbals of a
    couple of unknowns and I'm "ridiculous"? Lol.

    You did not post a fact, you posted the output of some unknown "AI".
    If you think that I stopped some random "Clogwogs" in the street, you
    are even more stupid that I have given you credit for, these were
    intelligent people with whom I had a social relationship, far more
    reliable than some anonymous clown from the Sunshine Coast.

    ROTFL :)

    This pretty much sums up why we've never seen anything remotely
    resembling "proof" from this fucking idiot :)

    Never seen anything remotely resembling "proof" from *YOU*!

    Untrue! Buffo has provided bagsfull of proof! Proofthat he is a liar.
    Proof that he's an astonishing hypocrite. Proof that he's a buffoon etc etc
    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Xeno@xenolith@optusnet.com.au to aus.cars on Mon Jan 5 22:08:04 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 5/1/2026 9:43 pm, alvey wrote:
    Xeno wrote:
    On 5/1/2026 6:17 pm, Noddy wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 2:17 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 12:10 pm, alvey wrote:

    Right. So I quote a fact and you post the *alleged* verbals of a
    couple of unknowns and I'm "ridiculous"? Lol.

    You did not post a fact, you posted the output of some unknown "AI".
    If you think that I stopped some random "Clogwogs" in the street,
    you are even more stupid that I have given you credit for, these
    were intelligent people with whom I had a social relationship, far
    more reliable than some anonymous clown from the Sunshine Coast.

    ROTFL :)

    This pretty much sums up why we've never seen anything remotely
    resembling "proof" from this fucking idiot :)

    Never seen anything remotely resembling "proof" from *YOU*!

    Untrue! Buffo has provided bagsfull of proof! Proofthat he is a liar.
    Proof that he's an astonishing hypocrite. Proof that he's a buffoon etc etc

    Yes but not the proof that was oft requested of him. None of that. FFS,
    the proof that he managed to provide proof *refuted* his own claims in
    the past and again with his Wikipedia links!
    --
    Xeno

    Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
    (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Clocky@notgonna@happen.com to aus.cars on Mon Jan 5 19:50:32 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 5/01/2026 3:30 pm, Noddy wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 3:29 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 12:14 pm, keithr0 wrote:

    Irrelevant. You made the statement that I should have been taught
    English in early primary school based on the statement of two
    unknown individuals of unknown age and have been shown why that is
    false.

    Nope upright Dutch citizens, with no reason to lie.


    "I've asked a couple of them why that is, the answer always was
    that they started learning it as soon as they started school."

    Not in the 70's they most certainly didn't and if so not until the
    early 90's and you have been shown why that is.

    The wiki article on the subject:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language_in_the_Netherlands


    Which verifies what I said.


    And here:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_education_by_region

    It would appear that English is a very common language in that part of
    the world,

    Duh.

    and has been part of the school curriculum for longer than
    you make out :)

    The irony of someone with English as their second language having to
    teach a native English speaking dunce like you basic English
    comprehension is rather amusing but here goes...

    Lower secondary education in NL (and EU from age 12)

    In the Netherlands.

    VMBO: Ages 12-16 (4 years).
    HAVO: Ages 12-17 (5 years).
    VWO: Ages 12-18 (6 years)

    Upper Secondary education in NL

    The last two years of HAVO and the last three years of VWO.

    *None* of which applied to me as English was not taught in primary
    school in the 70's when I was 9.

    English in primary school only became commonplace long after I arrived
    here.
    --
    In thread "May need to buy petrol soon" Sept 23 2021 11:15:59am
    Keithr0 wrote: "He made the assertion either he proves it or he is a
    proven liar."

    On Sept 23 2021 3:16:29pm Keithr0 wrote:
    "He asserts that the claim is true, so, if it is unproven, he is lying."
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Clocky@notgonna@happen.com to aus.cars on Mon Jan 5 20:00:12 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 5/01/2026 3:20 pm, Noddy wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 2:58 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 11:17 am, keithr0 wrote:


    You did not post a fact, you posted the output of some unknown "AI".
    If you think that I stopped some random "Clogwogs" in the street, you
    are even more stupid that I have given you credit for, these were
    intelligent people with whom I had a social relationship, far more
    reliable than some anonymous clown from the Sunshine Coast.


    Irrelevant. You made the statement that I should have been taught
    English in early primary school based on the statement of two unknown
    individuals of unknown age and have been shown why that is false.

    So answer a direct question. Did they teach English in schools during
    your time there, and what period are we talking about?


    Not in primary school and not in the 70's and not when I was 9.
    It wasn't taught until upper primary/secondary school but I was here by
    then.

    You can't admit the basis of your comment was false and are failing to
    squirm your way out of your predicament.

    You're the one that can clear this up given you were there, but I'm
    tipping that you'll do your usual act of dancing around the subject
    rather than be definitive.


    I've already answered it elsewhere.

    BTW, your use of the term "Clogwogs" is both demeaning to your friend
    clocky, and possibly in breach of hate speech laws.


    No need to get offended on my behalf you ridiculous prat. I call
    myself a "Clogwog" too.

    Surely you can-a do better than that.



    The truth will do.
    --
    In thread "May need to buy petrol soon" Sept 23 2021 11:15:59am
    Keithr0 wrote: "He made the assertion either he proves it or he is a
    proven liar."

    On Sept 23 2021 3:16:29pm Keithr0 wrote:
    "He asserts that the claim is true, so, if it is unproven, he is lying."
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Noddy@me@home.com to aus.cars on Mon Jan 5 23:47:42 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 5/01/2026 10:50 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 3:30 pm, Noddy wrote:

    *None* of which applied to me as English was not taught in primary
    school in the 70's when I was 9.

    English in primary school only became commonplace long after I arrived
    here.

    As usual, you've danced your little dance. 97% of clog wearers speak
    English and have done for some time according to various sources, and
    that's probably more than here. But you never spoke a word of it until
    you arrived here?

    I'm calling bullshit.
    --
    --
    --
    Regards,
    Noddy.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From alvey@Hans.Andnees@gmail.com to aus.cars on Tue Jan 6 06:37:02 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    Noddy wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 10:50 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 3:30 pm, Noddy wrote:

    *None* of which applied to me as English was not taught in primary
    school in the 70's when I was 9.

    English in primary school only became commonplace long after I arrived
    here.

    As usual, you've danced your little dance. 97% of clog wearers speak
    English and have done for some time according to various sources, and
    that's probably more than here. But you never spoke a word of it until
    you arrived here?

    I'm calling bullshit.

    Which can only be because you want to argue & abuse some more.

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From alvey@Hans.Andnees@gmail.com to aus.cars on Tue Jan 6 06:45:22 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    keithr0 wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 1:37 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 9:23 am, keithr0 wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 6:10 am, alvey wrote:


    We know nothig about your "Clogwogs" except that you probably invented
    them.

    Unlike you, I don't invent lies.

    No-one to blame but yourself for your tales being doubted Ritcho. You
    know the adage, "If you lay down with Darrens..."

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Xeno@xenolith@optusnet.com.au to aus.cars on Tue Jan 6 08:58:44 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 5/1/2026 11:47 pm, Noddy wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 10:50 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 3:30 pm, Noddy wrote:

    *None* of which applied to me as English was not taught in primary
    school in the 70's when I was 9.

    English in primary school only became commonplace long after I arrived
    here.

    As usual, you've danced your little dance. 97% of clog wearers speak
    English and have done for some time according to various sources, and
    that's probably more than here. But you never spoke a word of it until
    you arrived here?

    I'm calling bullshit.

    You? Calling bullshit? That's the laugh of the century right there!
    Next you'll be telling us you had *first hand experience* in the
    Netherlands of the 70s.

    Just between you and I, Clocky's credence here is way greater than
    yours. You see, his is a *lived experience*, he was actually there in
    the era concerned. What's more, he attended school there! You don't get
    more direct firsthand experience than that!

    Your singular experience is reading Wikipedia articles that prove your
    limited depth of understanding.

    A perfect example;
    In the following decades, with American-dominated globalization,
    English gradually increased in importance as a lingua franca, at
    the expense of both German and French, which lost popularity as
    second languages in the latter half of the 20th century.

    Clocky said German and French were the second languages of his era, the
    above excerpt from Wikipedia bears that out and there is plenty of
    evidence that, once English became dominant, it was initially taught
    beyond the age of 10 - and not before.

    Again Darren, you are in no position to call bullshit on Clocky's *lived experience* so I suggest you pull your head in and STFU.
    --
    Xeno

    Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
    (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Daryl@dwalford@westpine.com.au to aus.cars on Tue Jan 6 20:32:39 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 4/1/2026 8:48 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 4/01/2026 11:07 am, Clocky wrote:
    On 3/01/2026 4:16 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 3/01/2026 6:46 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 2/01/2026 5:16 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 30/12/2025 9:55 am, Clocky wrote:
    On 29/12/2025 5:49 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 29/12/2025 8:19 pm, Daryl wrote:
    On 29/12/2025 6:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    A week ago last Friday, the car fairy paid a visit, and, like >>>>>>>>> all good fairies, left a present - a RAV4.

    It has only done one journey beyond the local area, a 25Km trip >>>>>>>>> to our daughter's place for Xmas day, but the economy looks OK, >>>>>>>>> usually in the low 5s, sometimes in the upper 4s. It's quite a >>>>>>>>> change from the Mazda 3, apart from the driving position being >>>>>>>>> significantly higher, things have moved on in the 10 years
    since we bought the M3.

    Not necessarily for the better IMO, too much electronics to go >>>>>>>> wrong, most of it is pretty reliable but can be a nightmare when >>>>>>>> it isn't.

    **Bullshit. Electronics, in general, have improved car
    reliability dramatically.

    Absolute garbage. Most definitely not.

    -a-aI cite the example of EFI as one that has VASTLY improved
    almost every aspect of engine flexibility,

    Yeah that was many decades ago now and did vastly improve
    reliability but as time has gone on and countless modules and
    systems have been introduced for superfluous bullshit reliability >>>>>> has declined.

    And that's not just electronics - cost reduction, emission control >>>>>> systems, CRD and pushing engines to their limits etc have all
    contributed to a decline in long term reliability.



    **Bullshit. My FC Holden was pretty much buggered at around 100,000 >>>>> miles. My first Escort (1.3L) was headed for a major engine rebuild >>>>> at around 100,000km. My second Escort (1.6L pushrod) was a dud from >>>>> day one, but it was headed for the scrapyard at around 100,000km.
    My first 2L SOHC Escort was a bit special. It actually lasted quite >>>>> well, whilst proving me with huge enjoyment. Even at 100,000km, it
    was happily revving past 7,000RPM. Until it was written off by an
    idiot running a red. My last Escort (2L) was a disappointment, but
    it lasted past 150,000km. I actually managed to sell it. Then my VH >>>>> Commodore came along. It lasted 175,000km before a complete engine
    swap (big mistake - Higginbottom disaster). That engine lasted
    another 100,000km, before it died. After that, my VL. Never gave me >>>>> a minute's problems.

    Yeah which proves my point when I said EFI did vastly improve
    reliability and that it was decades ago.

    The VL was ~40 years ago and EFI. It had it's issues too.
    Not the first Holden with EFI, that belongs to the VK and it's
    "black" Holden 3.3L with Bosch Jetronic EFI option. Economy and
    power improved, reliability, well not so much :-)


    -a-aSold with
    220,000km up. Then came my VP Commodore. Bits would fall off it and >>>>> the paint was, well, barely paint, but it was generally quite
    reliable, until a tree branch (weighing an estimated 3 Tonnes)
    killed it at around 250,000km.


    Then I drove my partner's Ford Telstar. We sold it at
    245,000km. It was running fine.

    Early ones were shit.

    **Yep. I drove an early one. It felt like a truck. My partner's one
    was a 1989 model. A Ghia. It was a decent, comfortable, VERY reliable
    car. Best of all, when the clutch master and slave cylinders needed
    replacement, the total bill was around $600.00. At the same time my
    mate did the same job in his Jeep Compass (which used VW running
    gear). That cost him 3 Grand!


    1989 models were shit. Did a lot of head gasket on those.

    **I guess we were lucky.

    Seems that you were, BIL had one and it was also pretty reliable until
    it was getting on a bit, he maintained it meticulously, he sold it to
    his daughter in law and she destroyed it in less than 12mths, they
    didn't take well to neglect and abuse.
    A mates school teacher colleague also had one and the head gasket
    failed, we got it to his house and started the job, when I started
    removing the head bolts I thought that my mate had beaten me too it
    because the bolts were finger tight but he said that he hadn't touched
    them, turns out was a common problem.
    I've also replaced a few head gaskets on Mazda E2000 vans of the same
    vintage which had more or less the same engine.
    --
    Daryl
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Daryl@dwalford@westpine.com.au to aus.cars on Tue Jan 6 20:37:33 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 5/1/2026 12:17 pm, jonz wrote:
    On 04-Jan-26 8:56 PM, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 3/01/2026 9:17 pm, Daryl wrote:
    On 3/1/2026 7:27 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 3/01/2026 8:05 am, Daryl wrote:
    On 2/1/2026 8:16 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 30/12/2025 9:55 am, Clocky wrote:
    On 29/12/2025 5:49 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
    On 29/12/2025 8:19 pm, Daryl wrote:
    On 29/12/2025 6:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    A week ago last Friday, the car fairy paid a visit, and, like >>>>>>>>>> all good fairies, left a present - a RAV4.

    It has only done one journey beyond the local area, a 25Km >>>>>>>>>> trip to our daughter's place for Xmas day, but the economy >>>>>>>>>> looks OK, usually in the low 5s, sometimes in the upper 4s. >>>>>>>>>> It's quite a change from the Mazda 3, apart from the driving >>>>>>>>>> position being significantly higher, things have moved on in >>>>>>>>>> the 10 years since we bought the M3.

    Not necessarily for the better IMO, too much electronics to go >>>>>>>>> wrong, most of it is pretty reliable but can be a nightmare >>>>>>>>> when it isn't.

    **Bullshit. Electronics, in general, have improved car
    reliability dramatically.

    Absolute garbage. Most definitely not.

    -a-aI cite the example of EFI as one that has VASTLY improved
    almost every aspect of engine flexibility,

    Yeah that was many decades ago now and did vastly improve
    reliability but as time has gone on and countless modules and
    systems have been introduced for superfluous bullshit reliability >>>>>>> has declined.

    And that's not just electronics - cost reduction, emission
    control systems, CRD and pushing engines to their limits etc have >>>>>>> all contributed to a decline in long term reliability.



    **Bullshit. My FC Holden was pretty much buggered at around
    100,000 miles.

    Pretty much standard for those engines in those days.

    -a-aMy first Escort (1.3L) was headed for a major engine rebuild at >>>>>> around 100,000km.

    That is unusual, Kent engines are generally robust.

    **Robust, yes. Mine was diagnosed as requiring a new set of valve
    springs, along with a bunch of other stuff.

    Needing new valve springs at 100,00km says to me that the engine was
    abused in that it was held at high rpm too often, its also hardly a
    "major rebuild" its actually a simple job on those engines.

    **Very likely, but the car was well past it's use-by date in many areas.




    -a-aMy second Escort (1.6L pushrod) was a dud from day
    one, but it was headed for the scrapyard at around 100,000km.

    Also unusual.

    **The 1.6L pushrod was a heap of shit. Barely made more power than
    the 1.3L, revved out to a pitiful 5,500RPM and Dieseled when turned
    off. There was no cure. Ford had a kludge, which didn't work. All in
    all, the 1.6L pushrod was a profoundly disappointing car.
    Particularly, since I had taken a 1.6L DOHC for a spin at the same
    time. WOW!

    Trying to remind what year that car would have been?
    Late 70's early 80's?

    **1976.

    If so that was around the time when emissions rules were new and many
    car makers struggled to meet emissions and still make decent power,
    many lost power so not really the fault of the engine.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    -aBall bearings inserted in appropriate tubing made those early emission devices learn their place in the universe!. ;)-a >

    LOL, that helped but how much depended on the actual engine, some were strangled with different cams and even lower compression, all fixeable
    with money and time but out of the box some were pretty bad.
    --
    Daryl
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Daryl@dwalford@westpine.com.au to aus.cars on Tue Jan 6 20:48:48 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 5/1/2026 12:25 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 10:59 am, Xeno wrote:
    On 5/1/2026 7:10 am, alvey wrote:
    Noddy wrote:
    On 4/01/2026 10:14 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 4/01/2026 10:41 am, Clocky wrote:

    Bzzzzt. Another comprehension failure on your part. I said I
    couldn't speak a word of English when I was 9. I didn't say I was >>>>>> 9 when I started school here and it wasn't 1982 anyway.

    That seems odd, I've visited the land of your birth several times,
    and have rarely met anybody who couldn't speak English. I've asked
    a couple of them why that is, the answer always was that they
    started learning it as soon as they started school. So, I would
    have thought that, unless you were particularly thick, you'd have
    at least a basic understanding of English after at least 3 years of >>>>> school.

    It's getting to the point where you can't believe a word the bloke
    says. Just like his mental mate.

    Must be something about the Dutch :)

    And something about you pair is that you are both lazy and stupid.

    So because Retcho allegedly got told something by a couple of clog-
    wogs in the street then that's conclusive proof of the Dutch
    education system. Jaysus wept! You pair are ridiculous.

    Fyi, Mr AI says that "English is routinely taught in Dutch primary
    schools, with a legal requirement for it to start by group 7 (around
    age 10-11)...".

    Well played boys.

    They truly are dickheads

    Coat tailing your little friend? what an entertaining double act you are.

    In Thailand English has become mandatory in primary school from 4th
    grade. I know because I was lumbered with a composite English class
    (4-5-6) way back in 97. The reason for that is the limited spread of
    Thai Language - not much use outside of Thailand or Laos.

    Completely irrelevant.

    What is mandatory in schools isn't always what is the norm in society.
    Some of my neighbors are from the Philippines, we were chatting one day
    and I asked them if they had taught their children the language, they
    said that they couldn't because they have never spoken it, they always
    spoke English at home as did almost everyone they knew, the people are
    in their late 40's to early 50's.
    --
    Daryl
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Daryl@dwalford@westpine.com.au to aus.cars on Tue Jan 6 20:53:12 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 5/1/2026 12:28 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 10:57 am, jonz wrote:
    On 04-Jan-26 12:38 PM, Clocky wrote:
    On 3/01/2026 8:52 pm, alvey wrote:
    Noddy wrote:
    On 3/01/2026 12:38 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 2/01/2026 6:46 pm, Noddy wrote:

    Yeah, that's right. Like people who, when an intermittent fault >>>>>>> with an error code that cannot be retrieved can't get the fault >>>>>>> to occur when they're looking at the vehicle do a bit of lateral >>>>>>> thinking and swap parts around to see if the fault follows the
    swap the next time it occurs which will positively identify the >>>>>>> cause.


    LOL, lateral thinking back to the 70's and all you know - part
    swapping in hope and ignorance.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Part substitution is a *legitimate* diagnostic tool!. Always has
    been,always will be!.

    If you know what you are doing, it can be the fastest and most
    economical method of diagnosing some faults.


    Absolutely, a misfire on a particular cyl could be a bad coil, a bad
    plug or even bad ecu or wiring, to confirm the fault its common to swap
    parts to see if the fault code also moves.
    --
    Daryl
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Clocky@notgonna@happen.com to aus.cars on Tue Jan 6 17:58:36 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 5/01/2026 8:47 pm, Noddy wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 10:50 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 3:30 pm, Noddy wrote:

    *None* of which applied to me as English was not taught in primary
    school in the 70's when I was 9.

    English in primary school only became commonplace long after I arrived
    here.

    As usual, you've danced your little dance. 97% of clog wearers speak
    English and have done for some time according to various sources, and
    that's probably more than here. But you never spoke a word of it until
    you arrived here?

    I'm calling bullshit.




    You can call it what you like, the facts don't lie.

    The irony of someone with English as their second language having to
    teach a native English speaking dunce like you basic English
    comprehension is rather amusing but here goes...

    Lower secondary education in NL (and EU from age 12)

    In the Netherlands.

    VMBO: Ages 12-16 (4 years).
    HAVO: Ages 12-17 (5 years).
    VWO: Ages 12-18 (6 years)

    Upper Secondary education in NL

    The last two years of HAVO and the last three years of VWO.

    *None* of which applied to me as English was not taught in primary
    school in the 70's when I was 9.

    English in primary school only became commonplace long after I arrived here.
    --
    In thread "May need to buy petrol soon" Sept 23 2021 11:15:59am
    Keithr0 wrote: "He made the assertion either he proves it or he is a
    proven liar."

    On Sept 23 2021 3:16:29pm Keithr0 wrote:
    "He asserts that the claim is true, so, if it is unproven, he is lying."
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Clocky@notgonna@happen.com to aus.cars on Tue Jan 6 18:06:37 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 5/01/2026 3:16 pm, Noddy wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 3:08 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 9:28 am, keithr0 wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 10:57 am, jonz wrote:

    Part substitution is a *legitimate* diagnostic tool!. Always has
    been,always will be!.

    If you know what you are doing, it can be the fastest and most
    economical method of diagnosing some faults.




    Can be, but not in the specific example he gave.

    And yet it pinpointed the fault and solved the problem. Go figure.


    Only in your mind where this story resides you ridiculous incompetent twit.
    --
    In thread "May need to buy petrol soon" Sept 23 2021 11:15:59am
    Keithr0 wrote: "He made the assertion either he proves it or he is a
    proven liar."

    On Sept 23 2021 3:16:29pm Keithr0 wrote:
    "He asserts that the claim is true, so, if it is unproven, he is lying."
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Xeno@xenolith@optusnet.com.au to aus.cars on Tue Jan 6 21:52:59 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 6/1/2026 8:48 pm, Daryl wrote:
    On 5/1/2026 12:25 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 10:59 am, Xeno wrote:
    On 5/1/2026 7:10 am, alvey wrote:
    Noddy wrote:
    On 4/01/2026 10:14 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 4/01/2026 10:41 am, Clocky wrote:

    Bzzzzt. Another comprehension failure on your part. I said I
    couldn't speak a word of English when I was 9. I didn't say I was >>>>>>> 9 when I started school here and it wasn't 1982 anyway.

    That seems odd, I've visited the land of your birth several times, >>>>>> and have rarely met anybody who couldn't speak English. I've asked >>>>>> a couple of them why that is, the answer always was that they
    started learning it as soon as they started school. So, I would
    have thought that, unless you were particularly thick, you'd have >>>>>> at least a basic understanding of English after at least 3 years
    of school.

    It's getting to the point where you can't believe a word the bloke
    says. Just like his mental mate.

    Must be something about the Dutch :)

    And something about you pair is that you are both lazy and stupid.

    So because Retcho allegedly got told something by a couple of clog-
    wogs in the street then that's conclusive proof of the Dutch
    education system. Jaysus wept! You pair are ridiculous.

    Fyi, Mr AI says that "English is routinely taught in Dutch primary
    schools, with a legal requirement for it to start by group 7 (around
    age 10-11)...".

    Well played boys.

    They truly are dickheads

    Coat tailing your little friend? what an entertaining double act you are.

    In Thailand English has become mandatory in primary school from 4th
    grade. I know because I was lumbered with a composite English class
    (4-5-6) way back in 97. The reason for that is the limited spread of
    Thai Language - not much use outside of Thailand or Laos.

    Completely irrelevant.

    What is mandatory in schools isn't always what is the norm in society.
    Some of my neighbors are from the Philippines, we were chatting one day
    and I asked them if they had taught their children the language, they
    said that they couldn't because they have never spoken it, they always
    spoke English at home as did almost everyone they knew, the people are
    in their late 40's to early 50's.

    You, and your example, are highly *flawed*. The Philippines was a US
    *colony* until 1946. A little potted history for you...

    AI
    The Philippines became a U.S. colony in 1898, following the Treaty of
    Paris, which ended the Spanish-American War and ceded the islands from
    Spain to the United States for $20 million. This began the American
    colonial period (1898-1946), marked by the bloody Philippine-American
    War (1899-1902) as Filipino nationalists fought for independence,
    eventually leading to U.S. rule and eventual independence granted in 1946.

    More AI
    The Philippines has two official languages, Filipino (the national
    language, a standardized form of Tagalog) and English, while Filipino
    serves as the primary national language, uniting the diverse linguistic communities, and English functions as the language for government,
    commerce, and education. The constitution also recognizes regional
    languages as auxiliary official languages and mandates Filipino's
    development from all Philippine languages, not just Tagalog.

    That makes it entirely unsurprising they speak English almost natively
    in the Philippines.

    Hey, you really aren't helping your hero very much. Try thinking before writing, might help.
    --
    Xeno

    Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
    (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Noddy@me@home.com to aus.cars on Tue Jan 6 21:54:33 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 6/01/2026 9:06 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 3:16 pm, Noddy wrote:

    Can be, but not in the specific example he gave.

    And yet it pinpointed the fault and solved the problem. Go figure.


    Only in your mind where this story resides you ridiculous incompetent twit.

    ROTFL :)

    The penis envy is strong with you :)
    --
    --
    --
    Regards,
    Noddy.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Xeno@xenolith@optusnet.com.au to aus.cars on Tue Jan 6 21:55:30 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 6/1/2026 8:53 pm, Daryl wrote:
    On 5/1/2026 12:28 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 10:57 am, jonz wrote:
    On 04-Jan-26 12:38 PM, Clocky wrote:
    On 3/01/2026 8:52 pm, alvey wrote:
    Noddy wrote:
    On 3/01/2026 12:38 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 2/01/2026 6:46 pm, Noddy wrote:

    Yeah, that's right. Like people who, when an intermittent fault >>>>>>>> with an error code that cannot be retrieved can't get the fault >>>>>>>> to occur when they're looking at the vehicle do a bit of lateral >>>>>>>> thinking and swap parts around to see if the fault follows the >>>>>>>> swap the next time it occurs which will positively identify the >>>>>>>> cause.


    LOL, lateral thinking back to the 70's and all you know - part
    swapping in hope and ignorance.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Part substitution is a *legitimate* diagnostic tool!. Always has
    been,always will be!.

    If you know what you are doing, it can be the fastest and most
    economical method of diagnosing some faults.


    Absolutely, a misfire on a particular cyl could be a bad coil, a bad
    plug or even bad ecu or wiring, to confirm the fault its common to swap parts to see if the fault code also moves.

    The reality is - Darren *invented* the story.
    --
    Xeno

    Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
    (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Xeno@xenolith@optusnet.com.au to aus.cars on Tue Jan 6 21:58:46 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 6/1/2026 9:54 pm, Noddy wrote:
    On 6/01/2026 9:06 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 3:16 pm, Noddy wrote:

    Can be, but not in the specific example he gave.

    And yet it pinpointed the fault and solved the problem. Go figure.


    Only in your mind where this story resides you ridiculous incompetent
    twit.

    ROTFL :)

    The penis envy is strong with me :)

    I fixed it for you Darren.

    Anyone who claims trade qualifications they do not possess is definitely
    a sad victim of penis envy.
    --
    Xeno

    Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
    (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Noddy@me@home.com to aus.cars on Tue Jan 6 22:00:34 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 6/01/2026 8:58 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 8:47 pm, Noddy wrote:


    As usual, you've danced your little dance. 97% of clog wearers speak
    English and have done for some time according to various sources, and
    that's probably more than here. But you never spoke a word of it until
    you arrived here?

    I'm calling bullshit.




    You can call it what you like, the facts don't lie.

    *What* facts?

    There is no irrefutable history of when English was taught in Dutch
    schools, and there is irrefutable history of what year levels were
    subjected to it when it was. There is no irrefutable proof Dutch was the
    only language you spoke when you came to this country, and there isn't
    even a comment about when that was.

    There are no "facts" in use here. Just some fucking story from you with
    the usual amount of support, which is zip.
    --
    --
    --
    Regards,
    Noddy.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From keithr0@me@bugger.off.com.au to aus.cars on Tue Jan 6 21:35:18 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 5/01/2026 2:41 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 12:16 pm, Xeno wrote:
    On 5/1/2026 3:08 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 9:28 am, keithr0 wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 10:57 am, jonz wrote:
    On 04-Jan-26 12:38 PM, Clocky wrote:
    On 3/01/2026 8:52 pm, alvey wrote:
    Noddy wrote:
    On 3/01/2026 12:38 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 2/01/2026 6:46 pm, Noddy wrote:

    Yeah, that's right. Like people who, when an intermittent >>>>>>>>>> fault with an error code that cannot be retrieved can't get >>>>>>>>>> the fault to occur when they're looking at the vehicle do a >>>>>>>>>> bit of lateral thinking and swap parts around to see if the >>>>>>>>>> fault follows the swap the next time it occurs which will >>>>>>>>>> positively identify the cause.


    LOL, lateral thinking back to the 70's and all you know - part >>>>>>>>> swapping in hope and ignorance.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Part substitution is a *legitimate* diagnostic tool!. Always has
    been,always will be!.

    If you know what you are doing, it can be the fastest and most
    economical method of diagnosing some faults.




    Can be, but not in the specific example he gave.

    In fact his example didn't even make any sense to do that as the
    first option which was the whole point I was making.

    In fact Darren's example appeared to be quite contrived. Probably had
    its gestation in one of his random delusions.

    But as soon as he said he hadn't even bothered to plug in the very
    tool that could have easily diagnose the fault I knew all I ever need
    to know.

    His story was BS or he is grossly incompetent or most likely both.

    Definitely both, no doubt about it.


    The story was good enough to fool enablers Jonz and Keith but they have
    no experience with EFI systems nor are they critical thinkers.

    Not critical tinkers? Gawd you really are up yourself, and you still
    haven't explained how long term fuel trim could have diagnosed the problem.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From keithr0@me@bugger.off.com.au to aus.cars on Tue Jan 6 21:39:58 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 5/01/2026 5:28 pm, Xeno wrote:
    On 5/1/2026 6:16 pm, Noddy wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 3:08 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 9:28 am, keithr0 wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 10:57 am, jonz wrote:

    Part substitution is a *legitimate* diagnostic tool!. Always has
    been,always will be!.

    If you know what you are doing, it can be the fastest and most
    economical method of diagnosing some faults.




    Can be, but not in the specific example he gave.

    And yet it pinpointed the fault and solved the problem. Go figure.

    A problem created in your imagination *does not count* Darren.

    In fact his example didn't even make any sense to do that as the
    first option which was the whole point I was making.

    You never had a point, other than to demonstrate that you had zero
    understanding of the workings of OBD2.

    You clearly demonstrated that Darren when you invented an unlikely
    scenario. You see, if the situation had presented itself as you stated,
    it would have automatically generated *permanent DTCs*, it's the way the OBD2 system has been designed to work - protect the cat at all costs

    But as soon as he said he hadn't even bothered to plug in the very
    tool that could have easily diagnose the fault I knew all I ever need
    to know.

    Again, you cannot recall codes that have been permanently deleted once
    the engine has gone through the minimum number of start cycles without
    the fault reoccurring, and I challenge you to cite *any* reference
    that shows this as *not* being the case.

    You cannot delete a permanent code, it stays, you can't delete it, you
    don't go anywhere.

    So, does it stay in the ECU until the day that the car goes to the
    scrappy, or does it clear after a number of cycles without
    re-occurrence?

    His story was BS or he is grossly incompetent or most likely both.

    The only person who is both incompetent *and* full of bullshit on this
    matter is you. You have demonstrated an absolute and total lack of
    understanding not only of the way the system works, but your idea of
    using long term fuel trims to accurately diagnose a momentary misfire
    was laughable in the extreme.

    You are completely clueless, which is why you screw on mudflaps and
    snorkels for a living.






    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From keithr0@me@bugger.off.com.au to aus.cars on Tue Jan 6 21:43:13 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 6/01/2026 8:55 pm, Xeno wrote:
    On 6/1/2026 8:53 pm, Daryl wrote:
    On 5/1/2026 12:28 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 10:57 am, jonz wrote:
    On 04-Jan-26 12:38 PM, Clocky wrote:
    On 3/01/2026 8:52 pm, alvey wrote:
    Noddy wrote:
    On 3/01/2026 12:38 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 2/01/2026 6:46 pm, Noddy wrote:

    Yeah, that's right. Like people who, when an intermittent fault >>>>>>>>> with an error code that cannot be retrieved can't get the fault >>>>>>>>> to occur when they're looking at the vehicle do a bit of
    lateral thinking and swap parts around to see if the fault
    follows the swap the next time it occurs which will positively >>>>>>>>> identify the cause.


    LOL, lateral thinking back to the 70's and all you know - part >>>>>>>> swapping in hope and ignorance.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Part substitution is a *legitimate* diagnostic tool!. Always has
    been,always will be!.

    If you know what you are doing, it can be the fastest and most
    economical method of diagnosing some faults.


    Absolutely, a misfire on a particular cyl could be a bad coil, a bad
    plug or even bad ecu or wiring, to confirm the fault its common to
    swap parts to see if the fault code also moves.

    The reality is - Darren *invented* the story.

    The reality is that you have run out of argument, and are trying to
    pretend that it didn't happen.

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Xeno@xenolith@optusnet.com.au to aus.cars on Tue Jan 6 22:43:52 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 6/1/2026 10:00 pm, Noddy wrote:
    On 6/01/2026 8:58 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 8:47 pm, Noddy wrote:


    As usual, you've danced your little dance. 97% of clog wearers speak
    English and have done for some time according to various sources, and
    that's probably more than here. But you never spoke a word of it
    until you arrived here?

    I'm calling bullshit.




    You can call it what you like, the facts don't lie.

    *What* facts?

    There is no irrefutable history of when English was taught in Dutch
    schools, and there is-a irrefutable history of what year levels were subjected to it when it was. There is no irrefutable proof Dutch was the only language you spoke when you came to this country, and there isn't
    even a comment about when that was.

    There are no "facts" in use here. Just some fucking story from you with
    the usual amount of support, which is zip.

    You have no clue what a fact is. FYI, a fact is a thing that is known or proved to be true.

    Now, given that Clocky has had a *lived experience* in what was going on
    in education in the Netherlands at the time in question, one can safely
    assume that he *knows* what was true in *his case* at that time period.
    You, on the other hand, cannot possibly know. As for proof, the evidence supports the Clocky version so his is *fact*. Your attempt at recreating history has no backup, no proof, so we can dismiss it. Even Daryl's
    attempt at providing *supporting evidence* blew up right in his own face
    as his example wasn't even remotely relevant to Clocky's Netherlands experience. For a bloke who bangs on interminably about *experience*,
    you sure seem to have an incredible shortage of it here. FFS, your
    *only* language is English.

    When I was growing up I was speaking mostly Dutch *within* my family up
    until the age of 5 when I started school. That's because my parents
    spoke Dutch at home and I only picked up a smattering of English when
    visitors came calling. At school my limited English created issues so my parents spoke only English from then on. And I mostly forgot Dutch until
    much later in life. Since then I have been exposed to and learnt
    Indonesian, Malay and Thai. Count them Darren, that's 5 languages I have direct experience with. *YOU*, Darren, struggle with English, your one
    and only language. A polyglot you ain't but a fool you definitely are!
    --
    Xeno

    Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
    (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Xeno@xenolith@optusnet.com.au to aus.cars on Tue Jan 6 22:58:52 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 6/1/2026 10:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 5:28 pm, Xeno wrote:
    On 5/1/2026 6:16 pm, Noddy wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 3:08 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 9:28 am, keithr0 wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 10:57 am, jonz wrote:

    Part substitution is a *legitimate* diagnostic tool!. Always has
    been,always will be!.

    If you know what you are doing, it can be the fastest and most
    economical method of diagnosing some faults.




    Can be, but not in the specific example he gave.

    And yet it pinpointed the fault and solved the problem. Go figure.

    A problem created in your imagination *does not count* Darren.

    In fact his example didn't even make any sense to do that as the
    first option which was the whole point I was making.

    You never had a point, other than to demonstrate that you had zero
    understanding of the workings of OBD2.

    You clearly demonstrated that Darren when you invented an unlikely
    scenario. You see, if the situation had presented itself as you
    stated, it would have automatically generated *permanent DTCs*, it's
    the way the OBD2 system has been designed to work - protect the cat at
    all costs

    But as soon as he said he hadn't even bothered to plug in the very
    tool that could have easily diagnose the fault I knew all I ever
    need to know.

    Again, you cannot recall codes that have been permanently deleted
    once the engine has gone through the minimum number of start cycles
    without the fault reoccurring, and I challenge you to cite *any*
    reference that shows this as *not* being the case.

    You cannot delete a permanent code, it stays, you can't delete it, you
    don't go anywhere.

    So, does it stay in the ECU until the day that the car goes to the
    scrappy, or does it clear after a number of cycles without
    re-occurrence?

    For a car to enter a mode that required the owner to clear it, it would require it to set a *permanent code* and a standard OBD2 reader cannot
    clear a permanent DTC. These codes are specifically designed to remain
    in the system until the underlying emissions-related fault is genuinely
    fixed and the vehicle's computer confirms the repair over several drive cycles, with the only way to clear them being to resolve the issue and
    allow the car to complete all the necessary monitors. CAT related PDTCs require the maximum number of cycles. After all, the reason the ECU sets permanent codes is to protect the CAT. Therefore Darren's story is
    flawed from the get go. Remember, Darren initially stated the owner had
    to clear the codes to keep using the vehicle. Bzzztt, I call bullshit.
    If it got to the stage where the vehicle couldn't be driven and needed a
    code clearing, then I know a simple code reader isn't going to cut it.
    Did I mention, the *historical* freeze frames, up to 7 typically, would
    remain on many vehicles and these can be read by factory scantools and
    upper end non dealer scanners.
    Like I said, Darren just fabricated that story, just like he
    fabricated his trade qualifications.


    His story was BS or he is grossly incompetent or most likely both.

    The only person who is both incompetent *and* full of bullshit on
    this matter is you. You have demonstrated an absolute and total lack
    of understanding not only of the way the system works, but your idea
    of using long term fuel trims to accurately diagnose a momentary
    misfire was laughable in the extreme.

    You are completely clueless, which is why you screw on mudflaps and
    snorkels for a living.






    --
    Xeno

    Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
    (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Xeno@xenolith@optusnet.com.au to aus.cars on Tue Jan 6 22:59:48 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 6/1/2026 10:43 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 6/01/2026 8:55 pm, Xeno wrote:
    On 6/1/2026 8:53 pm, Daryl wrote:
    On 5/1/2026 12:28 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 10:57 am, jonz wrote:
    On 04-Jan-26 12:38 PM, Clocky wrote:
    On 3/01/2026 8:52 pm, alvey wrote:
    Noddy wrote:
    On 3/01/2026 12:38 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 2/01/2026 6:46 pm, Noddy wrote:

    Yeah, that's right. Like people who, when an intermittent >>>>>>>>>> fault with an error code that cannot be retrieved can't get >>>>>>>>>> the fault to occur when they're looking at the vehicle do a >>>>>>>>>> bit of lateral thinking and swap parts around to see if the >>>>>>>>>> fault follows the swap the next time it occurs which will >>>>>>>>>> positively identify the cause.


    LOL, lateral thinking back to the 70's and all you know - part >>>>>>>>> swapping in hope and ignorance.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Part substitution is a *legitimate* diagnostic tool!. Always has
    been,always will be!.

    If you know what you are doing, it can be the fastest and most
    economical method of diagnosing some faults.


    Absolutely, a misfire on a particular cyl could be a bad coil, a bad
    plug or even bad ecu or wiring, to confirm the fault its common to
    swap parts to see if the fault code also moves.

    The reality is - Darren *invented* the story.

    The reality is that you have run out of argument, and are trying to
    pretend that it didn't happen.

    I said a long long time ago that the story didn't happen. Darren has form!
    --
    Xeno

    Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
    (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Noddy@me@home.com to aus.cars on Tue Jan 6 23:47:51 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 6/01/2026 10:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 5:28 pm, Xeno wrote:


    You cannot delete a permanent code, it stays, you can't delete it, you
    don't go anywhere.

    So, does it stay in the ECU until the day that the car goes to the
    scrappy, or does it clear after a number of cycles without
    re-occurrence?

    Jesus.... This moron plays musical chairs with his position on this crap
    so often it defies belief. He clearly has the recall of a dead goldfish :)

    This has been done to death. There are three types of OBD2 error codes: Pending, stored and Permanent, and they all relate to the number of
    times a fault occurs relative to the engine's rpm. Each component that
    is monitored for faults by the ECU has a cycle count limit, and how the
    fault occurs relative to that cycle count determines the type of fault classification it carries.

    A Pending code is triggered when the ECU detects a momentary fault which *doesn't* occur enough times to fall outside the maximum number of
    cycles before correcting itself. In such cases, the ECU recognises that
    the fault has occurred, but because it was only brief it remains
    unconfirmed and the check engine light is *not* illuminated. If the
    fault does not occur again then the code is deleted after a pre set time without anyone knowing anything about it.


    A Stored code is triggered when the ECU detects a fault that *does* fall outside the maximum number of cycles before correcting itself. In such
    cases, the ECU detects the fault and recognises that it repeated itself
    enough for it to be confirmed, in which case it *does* illuminate the
    check engine light to alert the driver that a fault has occurred. In
    such a case, a Check Engine Light that is the result of a stored code
    trigger can be deleted using a code scanner, and it will remain off
    until such time as either the fault occurs again in which case the light
    will reappear, or the fault clears itself and goes away.

    A Permanent code is triggered when there is a hard failure of a
    component that never comes back to life and the ECU records continuous
    failure cycles. In such cases, the Check Engine Light is illuminated and *cannot* be deleted until such time as the fault is repaired. Once it is
    and the light is cleared it will stay off unless the fault occurs again.

    In some cases, not all, there is also freeze frame data stored that is
    saved along with the code, which is a snapshot of the state of the
    engine's parameters at the time the fault was detected which can make diagnosis a hell of a lot easier. However, like the codes themselves,
    the freeze frame data is *not* permanently stored.

    In all of these examples, the one thing they all have in common is that
    there is a minimum number of engine restart cycles that controls how
    long the codes remain active, and for most engines/vehicles that number
    is 40. After 40 successive restarts with no faults being recorded, any
    stored codes are erased, and they are erased *permanently*. Nothing is
    kept, and there is no historical information that can be retrieved weeks
    or months after the fault has been rectified and the minimum number of successful restarts reached. It's all wiped. Every bit of it.

    And there is a couple of compelling reasons for that.

    Firstly, most vehicle ECU's have *very* little EEPROM storage capacity,
    and this space is usually shared by Identity information, driver
    learning trims, and fault codes. Depending how many faults a vehicle had
    over the course of it's life, if fault codes were stored permanently
    then the ECU would run out of storage capacity before too long :)

    Secondly, and probably most logically, if a vehicle had a fault that was repaired and the code cleared, there is absolutely zero need for a
    permanent record of that to be kept in the ECU. It would be totally
    redundant information that served no purpose whatsoever.

    This is the way OBD2 has always worked despite the claims of a couple of clueless "experts", and any suggestion that fault codes remain with the vehicle forever and can be recalled at any time is pure fantasy invented
    by people who have zero experience.

    In the case of the R8 Clubsport with the cylinder misfire issue that
    ignited this debate to begin with, I knew from the getgo that as it had
    been more than a fortnight since the fault had last occurred and the
    owner cleared the code that the car had gone through *way* more than the minimum number of start cycles for the code to be permanently deleted
    which meant plugging in my code scanner would be a total waste of time.

    Instead I took the information the owner had given me in relation to the
    code type, determined that it was either a fuel or a spark issue, and
    swapped parts around which I knew would confirm one or the other the
    next time it happened.

    Which is exactly what it did.


    Codes are not permanently stored for perpetuity. The fact that the pair
    of these morons think they are tells anyone who would care to do their
    own research that these two imbeciles have absolutely no idea what
    they're talking about.
    --
    --
    --
    Regards,
    Noddy.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Noddy@me@home.com to aus.cars on Wed Jan 7 00:03:58 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 6/01/2026 10:43 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 6/01/2026 8:55 pm, Xeno wrote:

    The reality is - Darren *invented* the story.

    The reality is that you have run out of argument, and are trying to
    pretend that it didn't happen.

    Which goes completely against the grain for this mental case, as he's
    spent his entire time in this group pretending things *did* happen when everyone else knows they didn't.

    He must feel like he's in the Twilight Zone :)
    --
    --
    --
    Regards,
    Noddy.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Clocky@notgonna@happen.com to aus.cars on Tue Jan 6 22:51:38 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 6/01/2026 7:00 pm, Noddy wrote:
    On 6/01/2026 8:58 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 8:47 pm, Noddy wrote:


    As usual, you've danced your little dance. 97% of clog wearers speak
    English and have done for some time according to various sources, and
    that's probably more than here. But you never spoke a word of it
    until you arrived here?

    I'm calling bullshit.




    You can call it what you like, the facts don't lie.

    *What* facts?



    The information in *your* links *you* posted that unsurprisingly match
    my reality you fucking dumbarse.

    The irony of someone with English as their second language having to
    teach a native English speaking dunce like you basic English
    comprehension is rather amusing but here goes...

    Lower secondary education in NL (and EU from age 12)

    In the Netherlands.

    VMBO: Ages 12-16 (4 years).
    HAVO: Ages 12-17 (5 years).
    VWO: Ages 12-18 (6 years)

    Upper Secondary education in NL

    The last two years of HAVO and the last three years of VWO.

    *None* of which applied to me as English was not taught in primary
    school in the 70's when I was 9.

    English in primary school only became commonplace long after I arrived here.
    --
    In thread "May need to buy petrol soon" Sept 23 2021 11:15:59am
    Keithr0 wrote: "He made the assertion either he proves it or he is a
    proven liar."

    On Sept 23 2021 3:16:29pm Keithr0 wrote:
    "He asserts that the claim is true, so, if it is unproven, he is lying."
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Noddy@me@home.com to aus.cars on Wed Jan 7 09:05:03 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 7/01/2026 1:51 am, Clocky wrote:
    On 6/01/2026 7:00 pm, Noddy wrote:
    On 6/01/2026 8:58 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 8:47 pm, Noddy wrote:


    As usual, you've danced your little dance. 97% of clog wearers speak
    English and have done for some time according to various sources,
    and that's probably more than here. But you never spoke a word of it
    until you arrived here?

    I'm calling bullshit.




    You can call it what you like, the facts don't lie.

    *What* facts?



    The information in *your* links *you* posted that unsurprisingly match
    my reality you fucking dumbarse.

    The information in the links I provided had no definitive information whatsoever, which was precisely the *point*.

    *Jesus* you're a fucking idiot....
    --
    --
    --
    Regards,
    Noddy.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Xeno@xenolith@optusnet.com.au to aus.cars on Wed Jan 7 09:11:14 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 7/1/2026 9:05 am, Noddy wrote:
    On 7/01/2026 1:51 am, Clocky wrote:
    On 6/01/2026 7:00 pm, Noddy wrote:
    On 6/01/2026 8:58 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 8:47 pm, Noddy wrote:


    As usual, you've danced your little dance. 97% of clog wearers
    speak English and have done for some time according to various
    sources, and that's probably more than here. But you never spoke a
    word of it until you arrived here?

    I'm calling bullshit.




    You can call it what you like, the facts don't lie.

    *What* facts?



    The information in *your* links *you* posted that unsurprisingly match
    my reality you fucking dumbarse.

    The information in the links I provided had no definitive information whatsoever, which was precisely the *point*.

    *Jesus* you're a fucking idiot....

    So we can rely on Clocky's *lived experience* for *his reality* rather
    than your delusions about what might have happened in the Netherlands education system while you were failing in the Australian education
    system? Frankly, you have no recourse other than to take Clocky at his
    word since (a) he has no reason to lie and (b) he was there, you were not.
    --
    Xeno

    Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
    (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Xeno@xenolith@optusnet.com.au to aus.cars on Wed Jan 7 11:14:44 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 7/1/2026 9:05 am, Noddy wrote:
    On 7/01/2026 1:51 am, Clocky wrote:
    On 6/01/2026 7:00 pm, Noddy wrote:
    On 6/01/2026 8:58 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 8:47 pm, Noddy wrote:


    As usual, you've danced your little dance. 97% of clog wearers
    speak English and have done for some time according to various
    sources, and that's probably more than here. But you never spoke a
    word of it until you arrived here?

    I'm calling bullshit.




    You can call it what you like, the facts don't lie.

    *What* facts?



    The information in *your* links *you* posted that unsurprisingly match
    my reality you fucking dumbarse.

    The information in the links I provided had no definitive information whatsoever, which was precisely the *point*.

    Do you understand what *definitive information* actually means Darren.

    https://multilingual-families.com/foreign-language-education-in-dutch-schools-what-multilingual-families-should-know/

    Lots of definitive info here...

    Essentially Darren, you are grasping at straws!

    In reality, you are drowning in your own bullshit!



    *Jesus* you're a fucking idiot....


    There's an idiot here and it isn't Clocky. Look in a mirror, you'll see
    one for sure!
    --
    Xeno

    Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
    (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Xeno@xenolith@optusnet.com.au to aus.cars on Wed Jan 7 11:38:09 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 6/1/2026 11:47 pm, Noddy wrote:
    On 6/01/2026 10:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 5:28 pm, Xeno wrote:


    You cannot delete a permanent code, it stays, you can't delete it,
    you don't go anywhere.

    So, does it stay in the ECU until the day that the car goes to the
    scrappy, or does it clear after a number of cycles without
    re-occurrence?

    Jesus.... This moron plays musical chairs with his position on this crap
    so often it defies belief. He clearly has the recall of a dead goldfish :)

    This has been done to death. There are three types of OBD2 error codes: Pending, stored and Permanent, and they all relate to the number of
    times a fault occurs relative to the engine's rpm. Each component that
    is monitored for faults by the ECU has a cycle count limit, and how the fault occurs relative to that cycle count determines the type of fault classification it carries.

    A Pending code is triggered when the ECU detects a momentary fault which *doesn't* occur enough times to fall outside the maximum number of
    cycles before correcting itself. In such cases, the ECU recognises that
    the fault has occurred, but because it was only brief it remains
    unconfirmed and the check engine light is *not* illuminated. If the
    fault does not occur again then the code is deleted after a pre set time without anyone knowing anything about it.


    A Stored code is triggered when the ECU detects a fault that *does* fall outside the maximum number of cycles before correcting itself. In such cases, the ECU detects the fault and recognises that it repeated itself enough for it to be confirmed, in which case it *does* illuminate the
    check engine light to alert the driver that a fault has occurred. In
    such a case, a Check Engine Light that is the result of a stored code trigger can be deleted using a code scanner, and it will remain off
    until such time as either the fault occurs again in which case the light will reappear, or the fault clears itself and goes away.

    A Permanent code is triggered when there is a hard failure of a
    component that never comes back to life and the ECU records continuous failure cycles. In such cases, the Check Engine Light is illuminated and *cannot* be deleted until such time as the fault is repaired. Once it is
    and the light is cleared it will stay off unless the fault occurs again.

    In some cases, not all, there is also freeze frame data stored that is
    saved along with the code, which is a snapshot of the state of the
    engine's parameters at the time the fault was detected which can make diagnosis a hell of a lot easier. However, like the codes themselves,
    the freeze frame data is *not* permanently stored.

    In all of these examples, the one thing they all have in common is that there is a minimum number of engine restart cycles that controls how
    long the codes remain active, and for most engines/vehicles that number
    is 40. After 40 successive restarts with no faults being recorded, any stored codes are erased, and they are erased *permanently*. Nothing is
    kept, and there is no historical information that can be retrieved weeks
    or months after the fault has been rectified and the minimum number of successful restarts reached. It's all wiped. Every bit of it.

    And there is a couple of compelling reasons for that.

    Firstly, most vehicle ECU's have *very* little EEPROM storage capacity,
    and this space is usually shared by Identity information, driver
    learning trims, and fault codes. Depending how many faults a vehicle had over the course of it's life, if fault codes were stored permanently
    then the ECU would run out of storage capacity before too long :)

    Secondly, and probably most logically, if a vehicle had a fault that was repaired and the code cleared, there is absolutely zero need for a
    permanent record of that to be kept in the ECU. It would be totally redundant information that served no purpose whatsoever.

    In the era of emissions testing, and emissions testing *cheaters*, I can
    see a whole host of reasons why *history data* should be retained.

    This is the way OBD2 has always worked despite the claims of a couple of

    Nope, OBD2 has been progressively become much more comprehensive. The
    OBD2 system has not been static since the day it was first implemented,
    that much is certain.

    clueless "experts", and any suggestion that fault codes remain with the vehicle forever and can be recalled at any time is pure fantasy invented
    by people who have zero experience.

    In the case of the R8 Clubsport with the cylinder misfire issue that
    ignited this debate to begin with, I knew from the getgo that as it had
    been more than a fortnight since the fault had last occurred and the
    owner cleared the code that the car had gone through *way* more than the minimum number of start cycles for the code to be permanently deleted
    which meant plugging in my code scanner would be a total waste of time.

    FFS Darren, you weren't even *aware* of *Permanent DTCs*

    And said codes wouldn't be injector or spark related codes, they would
    be *emissions related* codes since such misfires would trigger a
    multitude of *emissions faults*. Again, you lack an understanding of how
    the system operates and the inbuilt dependencies. That's why a *code
    reader* in your hands is a waste of time and money. In your hands a code reader turns into a parts cannon. You didn't use a scanner because you
    had no clue how to interpret the data.

    Instead I took the information the owner had given me in relation to the code type, determined that it was either a fuel or a spark issue, and swapped parts around which I knew would confirm one or the other the
    next time it happened.

    Which is exactly what it did.

    In your delusions!

    Codes are not permanently stored for perpetuity. The fact that the pair
    of these morons think they are tells anyone who would care to do their
    own research that these two imbeciles have absolutely no idea what
    they're talking about.

    No one has ever said PDTCs remain in the ECU into perpetuity. What has
    been stated has been that the codes must be removed by the ECU itself.
    In order to do that the fault must be rectified, the 40 - 80 drive
    cycles completed and a minimum of 300 kilometres of drivetime covered.

    Random faults do not allow the above to occur.








    --
    Xeno

    Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
    (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From alvey@Hans.Andnees@gmail.com to aus.cars on Wed Jan 7 10:47:29 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    Xeno wrote:
    On 6/1/2026 8:48 pm, Daryl wrote:
    On 5/1/2026 12:25 pm, keithr0 wrote:


    Hey, you really aren't helping your hero very much. Try thinking before writing, might help.

    You're assuming that DATEs have the option of "thinking". What proof is
    there of that?

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From alvey@Hans.Andnees@gmail.com to aus.cars on Wed Jan 7 10:54:52 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    Noddy wrote:
    On 6/01/2026 8:58 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 8:47 pm, Noddy wrote:


    As usual, you've danced your little dance. 97% of clog wearers speak
    English and have done for some time according to various sources, and
    that's probably more than here. But you never spoke a word of it
    until you arrived here?

    I'm calling bullshit.




    You can call it what you like, the facts don't lie.

    *What* facts?

    There is no irrefutable history of when English was taught in Dutch
    schools, and there is-a irrefutable history of what year levels were subjected to it when it was. There is no irrefutable proof Dutch was the only language you spoke when you came to this country, and there isn't
    even a comment about when that was.

    There are no "facts" in use here. Just some fucking story from you with
    the usual amount of support, which is zip.

    Oh give it up Buffo.

    Despite your desperate squealing, the case against Richo's snipe has
    been comprehensively quashed. And despite the hard evidence that has
    been supplied, the most compelling proof is that Richo has run away.

    hth
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From alvey@Hans.Andnees@gmail.com to aus.cars on Wed Jan 7 11:05:44 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    Noddy wrote:
    On 6/01/2026 9:06 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 3:16 pm, Noddy wrote:

    Can be, but not in the specific example he gave.

    And yet it pinpointed the fault and solved the problem. Go figure.


    Only in your mind where this story resides you ridiculous incompetent
    twit.

    ROTFL :)

    The penis envy is strong with you :)

    In the unlikely event that it was still needed, then the above is a very
    good indication of how far Fraudster is from reality. He's a proven
    liar, hypocrite etc etc. So no-one even roughly sane would be envious of
    the raving loon.



    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From alvey@Hans.Andnees@gmail.com to aus.cars on Wed Jan 7 11:09:28 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    keithr0 wrote:
    On 6/01/2026 8:55 pm, Xeno wrote:

    Absolutely, a misfire on a particular cyl could be a bad coil, a bad
    plug or even bad ecu or wiring, to confirm the fault its common to
    swap parts to see if the fault code also moves.

    The reality is - Darren *invented* the story.

    The reality is that you have run out of argument, and are trying to
    pretend that it didn't happen.

    Yep, you should cast more aspersions Richo. That one about Clock's
    English worked out ever so well for you...

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Clocky@notgonna@happen.com to aus.cars on Wed Jan 7 10:18:50 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 7/01/2026 6:05 am, Noddy wrote:
    On 7/01/2026 1:51 am, Clocky wrote:
    On 6/01/2026 7:00 pm, Noddy wrote:
    On 6/01/2026 8:58 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 8:47 pm, Noddy wrote:


    As usual, you've danced your little dance. 97% of clog wearers
    speak English and have done for some time according to various
    sources, and that's probably more than here. But you never spoke a
    word of it until you arrived here?

    I'm calling bullshit.




    You can call it what you like, the facts don't lie.

    *What* facts?



    The information in *your* links *you* posted that unsurprisingly match
    my reality you fucking dumbarse.

    The information in the links I provided had no definitive information whatsoever, which was precisely the *point*.


    The links backed up what I said.

    You *insist* that I must have learned English by age 9. Nowhere does it
    say that in the 70's English was taught in *primary* school in NL.

    You weren't there , how could you possibly know. Certainly all the links
    and information posted here backs up what *I* said you retarded cunt.
    --
    In thread "May need to buy petrol soon" Sept 23 2021 11:15:59am
    Keithr0 wrote: "He made the assertion either he proves it or he is a
    proven liar."

    On Sept 23 2021 3:16:29pm Keithr0 wrote:
    "He asserts that the claim is true, so, if it is unproven, he is lying."
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Clocky@notgonna@happen.com to aus.cars on Wed Jan 7 10:41:10 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 6/01/2026 6:54 pm, Noddy wrote:
    On 6/01/2026 9:06 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 3:16 pm, Noddy wrote:

    Can be, but not in the specific example he gave.

    And yet it pinpointed the fault and solved the problem. Go figure.


    Only in your mind where this story resides you ridiculous incompetent
    twit.

    ROTFL :)

    The penis envy is strong with you :)



    Your old man warned the world when he called you the "Noddy".
    He knew it. We know it.
    --
    In thread "May need to buy petrol soon" Sept 23 2021 11:15:59am
    Keithr0 wrote: "He made the assertion either he proves it or he is a
    proven liar."

    On Sept 23 2021 3:16:29pm Keithr0 wrote:
    "He asserts that the claim is true, so, if it is unproven, he is lying."
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From jonz@Nothere@oroverthere.com to aus.cars on Wed Jan 7 13:52:56 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 06-Jan-26 10:39 PM, keithr0 wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 5:28 pm, Xeno wrote:
    On 5/1/2026 6:16 pm, Noddy wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 3:08 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 9:28 am, keithr0 wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 10:57 am, jonz wrote:

    Part substitution is a *legitimate* diagnostic tool!. Always has
    been,always will be!.

    If you know what you are doing, it can be the fastest and most
    economical method of diagnosing some faults.




    Can be, but not in the specific example he gave.

    And yet it pinpointed the fault and solved the problem. Go figure.

    A problem created in your imagination *does not count* Darren.

    In fact his example didn't even make any sense to do that as the
    first option which was the whole point I was making.

    You never had a point, other than to demonstrate that you had zero
    understanding of the workings of OBD2.

    You clearly demonstrated that Darren when you invented an unlikely
    scenario. You see, if the situation had presented itself as you
    stated, it would have automatically generated *permanent DTCs*, it's
    the way the OBD2 system has been designed to work - protect the cat at
    all costs

    But as soon as he said he hadn't even bothered to plug in the very
    tool that could have easily diagnose the fault I knew all I ever
    need to know.

    Again, you cannot recall codes that have been permanently deleted
    once the engine has gone through the minimum number of start cycles
    without the fault reoccurring, and I challenge you to cite *any*
    reference that shows this as *not* being the case.

    You cannot delete a permanent code, it stays, you can't delete it, you
    don't go anywhere.

    So, does it stay in the ECU until the day that the car goes to the
    scrappy, or does it clear after a number of cycles without
    re-occurrence?

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    That is exactly what happens, it *clears*!....

    So *this* is a rubbish comment!.

    "You cannot delete a permanent code, it stays, you
    can't delete it, you
    don't go anywhere".

    The *system* will delete said code when criteria are met..>
    His story was BS or he is grossly incompetent or most likely both.

    The only person who is both incompetent *and* full of bullshit on
    this matter is you. You have demonstrated an absolute and total lack
    of understanding not only of the way the system works, but your idea
    of using long term fuel trims to accurately diagnose a momentary
    misfire was laughable in the extreme.

    You are completely clueless, which is why you screw on mudflaps and
    snorkels for a living.






    --
    Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea--Massive,
    difficult to redirect, awe inspiring, entertaining and a source of mind boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it!!!!. Gene Spafford
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Noddy@me@home.com to aus.cars on Wed Jan 7 17:41:56 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 7/01/2026 1:52 pm, jonz wrote:
    On 06-Jan-26 10:39 PM, keithr0 wrote:

    So, does it stay in the ECU until the day that the car goes to the
    scrappy, or does it clear after a number of cycles without
    re-occurrence?

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    That is exactly what happens, it *clears*!....

    Yep. It's designed to, and has been since the day dot.

    -aSo *this* is a rubbish comment!.

    -a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a "You cannot delete a permanent code, it stays, you
    can't delete it, you
    don't go anywhere".

    ROTFL :)

    The bloke is absolutely clueless, and a fucking embarrassment. He really
    has no idea at all and just makes shit up :)
    --
    --
    --
    Regards,
    Noddy.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Xeno@xenolith@optusnet.com.au to aus.cars on Thu Jan 8 07:50:49 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    Noddy <me@home.com> wrote:
    On 7/01/2026 1:52 pm, jonz wrote:
    On 06-Jan-26 10:39 PM, keithr0 wrote:

    So, does it stay in the ECU until the day that the car goes to the
    scrappy, or does it clear after a number of cycles without
    re-occurrence?

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    That is exactly what happens, it *clears*!....

    Yep. It's designed to, and has been since the day dot.

    -aSo *this* is a rubbish comment!.

    -a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a "You cannot delete a permanent code, it stays, you
    can't delete it, you
    don't go anywhere".

    ROTFL :)

    The bloke is absolutely clueless, and a fucking embarrassment. He really
    has no idea at all and just makes shit up :)

    Darren, making shit up is *your* forte, and yourCOve been building on your experience in bullshitting for decades. CanrCOt say yourCOve gained much from your experience, your bullshit and lies are pretty transparent. Maybe itrCOs all the errors you make, like claiming Glover is a Dutch surname. That was
    a good one, care to try again? Now my surname, thatrCOs as Dutch as you could get.
    --
    Xeno
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Clocky@notgonna@happen.com to aus.cars on Thu Jan 8 16:10:43 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 8/01/2026 3:50 pm, Xeno wrote:
    Noddy <me@home.com> wrote:
    On 7/01/2026 1:52 pm, jonz wrote:
    On 06-Jan-26 10:39 PM, keithr0 wrote:

    So, does it stay in the ECU until the day that the car goes to the
    scrappy, or does it clear after a number of cycles without
    re-occurrence?

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    That is exactly what happens, it *clears*!....

    Yep. It's designed to, and has been since the day dot.

    -aSo *this* is a rubbish comment!.

    -a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a "You cannot delete a permanent code, it stays, you
    can't delete it, you
    don't go anywhere".

    ROTFL :)

    The bloke is absolutely clueless, and a fucking embarrassment. He really
    has no idea at all and just makes shit up :)

    Darren, making shit up is *your* forte, and yourCOve been building on your experience in bullshitting for decades. CanrCOt say yourCOve gained much from your experience, your bullshit and lies are pretty transparent. Maybe itrCOs all the errors you make, like claiming Glover is a Dutch surname. That was
    a good one, care to try again? Now my surname, thatrCOs as Dutch as you could get.



    Those two useless unqualified gimps are wanking themselves dry over
    something neither of them have any experience with or understand.

    FFS the fraud laughably stated that GM's Tech 2 doesn't do OBD-II such
    is his incompetence, no wonder then that he's shotgunning in hope part swapping like it's 1970 in this fantasy story of his...
    --
    In thread "May need to buy petrol soon" Sept 23 2021 11:15:59am
    Keithr0 wrote: "He made the assertion either he proves it or he is a
    proven liar."

    On Sept 23 2021 3:16:29pm Keithr0 wrote:
    "He asserts that the claim is true, so, if it is unproven, he is lying."
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Clocky@notgonna@happen.com to aus.cars on Thu Jan 8 16:10:43 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 8/01/2026 3:50 pm, Xeno wrote:
    Noddy <me@home.com> wrote:
    On 7/01/2026 1:52 pm, jonz wrote:
    On 06-Jan-26 10:39 PM, keithr0 wrote:

    So, does it stay in the ECU until the day that the car goes to the
    scrappy, or does it clear after a number of cycles without
    re-occurrence?

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    That is exactly what happens, it *clears*!....

    Yep. It's designed to, and has been since the day dot.

    -aSo *this* is a rubbish comment!.

    -a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a "You cannot delete a permanent code, it stays, you
    can't delete it, you
    don't go anywhere".

    ROTFL :)

    The bloke is absolutely clueless, and a fucking embarrassment. He really
    has no idea at all and just makes shit up :)

    Darren, making shit up is *your* forte, and yourCOve been building on your experience in bullshitting for decades. CanrCOt say yourCOve gained much from your experience, your bullshit and lies are pretty transparent. Maybe itrCOs all the errors you make, like claiming Glover is a Dutch surname. That was
    a good one, care to try again? Now my surname, thatrCOs as Dutch as you could get.



    Those two useless unqualified gimps are wanking themselves dry over
    something neither of them have any experience with or understand.

    FFS the fraud laughably stated that GM's Tech 2 doesn't do OBD-II such
    is his incompetence, no wonder then that he's shotgunning in hope part swapping like it's 1970 in this fantasy story of his...
    --
    In thread "May need to buy petrol soon" Sept 23 2021 11:15:59am
    Keithr0 wrote: "He made the assertion either he proves it or he is a
    proven liar."

    On Sept 23 2021 3:16:29pm Keithr0 wrote:
    "He asserts that the claim is true, so, if it is unproven, he is lying."
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From jonz@Nothere@oroverthere.com to aus.cars on Thu Jan 8 21:10:05 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 08-Jan-26 7:10 PM, Clocky wrote:
    On 8/01/2026 3:50 pm, Xeno wrote:
    Noddy <me@home.com> wrote:
    On 7/01/2026 1:52 pm, jonz wrote:
    On 06-Jan-26 10:39 PM, keithr0 wrote:

    So, does it stay in the ECU until the day that the car goes to the
    scrappy, or does it clear after a number of cycles without
    re-occurrence?

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    That is exactly what happens, it *clears*!....

    Yep. It's designed to, and has been since the day dot.

    -a-aSo *this* is a rubbish comment!.

    -a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a "You cannot delete a permanent code, it stays,
    you
    can't delete it, you
    don't go anywhere".

    ROTFL :)

    The bloke is absolutely clueless, and a fucking embarrassment. He really >>> has no idea at all and just makes shit up :)

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Agreed!!, and *now the cunts are *selectively* snipping!. Just a pair of
    weak mother fuckers sans a clue...
    Tho there could be a spot for them with trumps gestapo!. Who today *murdered a US citizen*...*Untrained murderous imbeciles* reckon this
    pair would be right at home! amongst them!!. >>>
    Darren, making shit up is *your* forte, and yourCOve been building on your >> experience in bullshitting for decades. CanrCOt say yourCOve gained much from
    your experience, your bullshit and lies are pretty transparent. Maybe
    itrCOs
    all the errors you make, like claiming Glover is a Dutch surname. That
    was
    a good one, care to try again? Now my surname, thatrCOs as Dutch as you
    could
    get.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Wasn`t aware that *CUNT* was a dutch curname??. Well, there ya go.>>


    Those two useless unqualified gimps are wanking themselves dry over something neither of them have any experience with or understand.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    I am yet to see *you* in particular, *rubbish* anything said by
    myself, noddy, or Keith...Yer a pair of oxygen thieving, repetitive, micro-dicked, lying, runaway, cunts.....>
    FFS the fraud laughably stated that GM's Tech 2 doesn't do OBD-II such
    is his incompetence, no wonder then that he's shotgunning in hope part swapping like it's 1970 in this fantasy story of his...

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    *YOU* railing about *incompetence*?. Fuck off, ticky O`brien... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    I for one can see right thru yer *selective* snipping. >



    --
    Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea--Massive,
    difficult to redirect, awe inspiring, entertaining and a source of mind boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it!!!!. Gene Spafford
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Clocky@notgonna@happen.com to aus.cars on Thu Jan 8 18:39:32 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 7/01/2026 8:38 am, Xeno wrote:
    On 6/1/2026 11:47 pm, Noddy wrote:
    On 6/01/2026 10:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 5:28 pm, Xeno wrote:


    You cannot delete a permanent code, it stays, you can't delete it,
    you don't go anywhere.

    So, does it stay in the ECU until the day that the car goes to the
    scrappy, or does it clear after a number of cycles without
    re-occurrence?

    Jesus.... This moron plays musical chairs with his position on this
    crap so often it defies belief. He clearly has the recall of a dead
    goldfish :)

    This has been done to death. There are three types of OBD2 error
    codes: Pending, stored and Permanent, and they all relate to the
    number of times a fault occurs relative to the engine's rpm. Each
    component that is monitored for faults by the ECU has a cycle count
    limit, and how the fault occurs relative to that cycle count
    determines the type of fault classification it carries.

    A Pending code is triggered when the ECU detects a momentary fault
    which *doesn't* occur enough times to fall outside the maximum number
    of cycles before correcting itself. In such cases, the ECU recognises
    that the fault has occurred, but because it was only brief it remains
    unconfirmed and the check engine light is *not* illuminated. If the
    fault does not occur again then the code is deleted after a pre set
    time without anyone knowing anything about it.


    A Stored code is triggered when the ECU detects a fault that *does*
    fall outside the maximum number of cycles before correcting itself. In
    such cases, the ECU detects the fault and recognises that it repeated
    itself enough for it to be confirmed, in which case it *does*
    illuminate the check engine light to alert the driver that a fault has
    occurred. In such a case, a Check Engine Light that is the result of a
    stored code trigger can be deleted using a code scanner, and it will
    remain off until such time as either the fault occurs again in which
    case the light will reappear, or the fault clears itself and goes away.

    A Permanent code is triggered when there is a hard failure of a
    component that never comes back to life and the ECU records continuous
    failure cycles. In such cases, the Check Engine Light is illuminated
    and *cannot* be deleted until such time as the fault is repaired. Once
    it is and the light is cleared it will stay off unless the fault
    occurs again.

    In some cases, not all, there is also freeze frame data stored that is
    saved along with the code, which is a snapshot of the state of the
    engine's parameters at the time the fault was detected which can make
    diagnosis a hell of a lot easier. However, like the codes themselves,
    the freeze frame data is *not* permanently stored.

    In all of these examples, the one thing they all have in common is
    that there is a minimum number of engine restart cycles that controls
    how long the codes remain active, and for most engines/vehicles that
    number is 40. After 40 successive restarts with no faults being
    recorded, any stored codes are erased, and they are erased
    *permanently*. Nothing is kept, and there is no historical information
    that can be retrieved weeks or months after the fault has been
    rectified and the minimum number of successful restarts reached. It's
    all wiped. Every bit of it.

    And there is a couple of compelling reasons for that.

    Firstly, most vehicle ECU's have *very* little EEPROM storage
    capacity, and this space is usually shared by Identity information,
    driver learning trims, and fault codes. Depending how many faults a
    vehicle had over the course of it's life, if fault codes were stored
    permanently then the ECU would run out of storage capacity before too
    long :)

    Secondly, and probably most logically, if a vehicle had a fault that
    was repaired and the code cleared, there is absolutely zero need for a
    permanent record of that to be kept in the ECU. It would be totally
    redundant information that served no purpose whatsoever.

    In the era of emissions testing, and emissions testing *cheaters*, I can
    see a whole host of reasons why *history data* should be retained.

    This is the way OBD2 has always worked despite the claims of a couple of

    Nope, OBD2 has been progressively become much more comprehensive. The
    OBD2 system has not been static since the day it was first implemented,
    that much is certain.

    clueless "experts", and any suggestion that fault codes remain with
    the vehicle forever and can be recalled at any time is pure fantasy
    invented by people who have zero experience.

    In the case of the R8 Clubsport with the cylinder misfire issue that
    ignited this debate to begin with, I knew from the getgo that as it
    had been more than a fortnight since the fault had last occurred and
    the owner cleared the code that the car had gone through *way* more
    than the minimum number of start cycles for the code to be permanently
    deleted which meant plugging in my code scanner would be a total waste
    of time.

    FFS Darren, you weren't even *aware* of *Permanent DTCs*

    And said codes wouldn't be injector or spark related codes, they would
    be *emissions related* codes since such misfires would trigger a
    multitude of *emissions faults*. Again, you lack an understanding of how
    the system operates and the inbuilt dependencies. That's why a *code
    reader* in your hands is a waste of time and money. In your hands a code reader turns into a parts cannon. You didn't use a scanner because you
    had no clue how to interpret the data.

    Instead I took the information the owner had given me in relation to
    the code type, determined that it was either a fuel or a spark issue,
    and swapped parts around which I knew would confirm one or the other
    the next time it happened.

    Which is exactly what it did.

    In your delusions!

    Codes are not permanently stored for perpetuity. The fact that the
    pair of these morons think they are tells anyone who would care to do
    their own research that these two imbeciles have absolutely no idea
    what they're talking about.

    No one has ever said PDTCs remain in the ECU into perpetuity. What has
    been stated has been that the codes must be removed by the ECU itself.
    In order to do that the fault must be rectified, the 40 - 80 drive
    cycles completed and a minimum of 300 kilometres of drivetime covered.

    Random faults do not allow the above to occur.



    We need to go back to his original story. He reckons he couldn't find
    anything wrong with this particular vehicle it and it all checked out
    fine - but then also claimed he never even bothered to even plug in his
    scan tool - for a suspected injector misfire!

    So how the fuck would he know if everything checked out fine if he never
    even checked for history codes or any data?

    He already knew that the owner had been clearing codes himself which
    means that the data likely *would* reveal the problem - at least to
    someone who bothered (or to be precise knew how) to actually check to determine what might be the problem.

    But no, he started swapping parts which is the approach of someone who
    is clueless when you have a diagnostic tool at your disposal. It was in
    a thread where I tried to help Daryl diagnose a fault and was crucified
    for it and so bruised was his ego that he felt the need to bignote
    himself as a hero mechanic as a distraction yet all he achieved was to
    reveal that was absolutely fucking clueless.

    What a brilliant own goal it was :-)
    --
    In thread "May need to buy petrol soon" Sept 23 2021 11:15:59am
    Keithr0 wrote: "He made the assertion either he proves it or he is a
    proven liar."

    On Sept 23 2021 3:16:29pm Keithr0 wrote:
    "He asserts that the claim is true, so, if it is unproven, he is lying."
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From keithr0@me@bugger.off.com.au to aus.cars on Thu Jan 8 21:28:46 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars


    On 6/01/2026 9:58 pm, Xeno wrote:
    On 6/1/2026 10:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 5:28 pm, Xeno wrote:
    On 5/1/2026 6:16 pm, Noddy wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 3:08 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 9:28 am, keithr0 wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 10:57 am, jonz wrote:

    Part substitution is a *legitimate* diagnostic tool!. Always has >>>>>>> been,always will be!.

    If you know what you are doing, it can be the fastest and most
    economical method of diagnosing some faults.




    Can be, but not in the specific example he gave.

    And yet it pinpointed the fault and solved the problem. Go figure.

    A problem created in your imagination *does not count* Darren.

    In fact his example didn't even make any sense to do that as the
    first option which was the whole point I was making.

    You never had a point, other than to demonstrate that you had zero
    understanding of the workings of OBD2.

    You clearly demonstrated that Darren when you invented an unlikely
    scenario. You see, if the situation had presented itself as you
    stated, it would have automatically generated *permanent DTCs*, it's
    the way the OBD2 system has been designed to work - protect the cat
    at all costs

    But as soon as he said he hadn't even bothered to plug in the very
    tool that could have easily diagnose the fault I knew all I ever
    need to know.

    Again, you cannot recall codes that have been permanently deleted
    once the engine has gone through the minimum number of start cycles
    without the fault reoccurring, and I challenge you to cite *any*
    reference that shows this as *not* being the case.

    You cannot delete a permanent code, it stays, you can't delete it,
    you don't go anywhere.

    So, does it stay in the ECU until the day that the car goes to the
    scrappy, or does it clear after a number of cycles without
    re-occurrence?

    For a car to enter a mode that required the owner to clear it, it would require it to set a *permanent code* and a standard OBD2 reader cannot
    clear a permanent DTC. These codes are specifically designed to remain
    in the system until the underlying emissions-related fault is genuinely fixed and the vehicle's computer confirms the repair over several drive cycles, with the only way to clear them being to resolve the issue and
    allow the car to complete all the necessary monitors.

    So "Permanent" codes aren't permanent, just longer lived. They will
    clear id the condition is fixed, or, if it was only a transient
    condition, and didn't re-occur for some number of cycles.

    CAT related PDTCs
    require the maximum number of cycles. After all, the reason the ECU sets permanent codes is to protect the CAT. Therefore Darren's story is
    flawed from the get go. Remember, Darren initially stated the owner had
    to clear the codes to keep using the vehicle. Bzzztt, I call bullshit.
    If it got to the stage where the vehicle couldn't be driven and needed a code clearing, then I know a simple code reader isn't going to cut it.
    Did I mention, the *historical* freeze frames, up to 7 typically, would remain on many vehicles and these can be read by factory scantools and
    upper end non dealer scanners.

    A manufacturer may include more, but OBD2 only requires 1


    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From keithr0@me@bugger.off.com.au to aus.cars on Thu Jan 8 21:31:16 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 5/01/2026 2:37 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 12:15 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 1:37 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 9:23 am, keithr0 wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 6:10 am, alvey wrote:
    Noddy wrote:
    On 4/01/2026 10:14 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 4/01/2026 10:41 am, Clocky wrote:

    Bzzzzt. Another comprehension failure on your part. I said I
    couldn't speak a word of English when I was 9. I didn't say I >>>>>>>> was 9 when I started school here and it wasn't 1982 anyway.

    That seems odd, I've visited the land of your birth several
    times, and have rarely met anybody who couldn't speak English.
    I've asked a couple of them why that is, the answer always was
    that they started learning it as soon as they started school. So, >>>>>>> I would have thought that, unless you were particularly thick,
    you'd have at least a basic understanding of English after at
    least 3 years of school.

    It's getting to the point where you can't believe a word the bloke >>>>>> says. Just like his mental mate.

    Must be something about the Dutch :)

    And something about you pair is that you are both lazy and stupid.

    So because Retcho allegedly got told something by a couple of clog- >>>>> wogs in the street then that's conclusive proof of the Dutch
    education system. Jaysus wept! You pair are ridiculous.

    The "Clogwogs" are rather more likely to know something about the
    subject than you or your "AI". Jaysus wept! You are ridiculous.


    We know nothig about your "Clogwogs" except that you probably
    invented them.

    Unlike you, I don't invent lies.


    In that case you need to provide greater details of your Clogwogs to determine why they might have made that comment which doesn't apply to anyone who was schooled in NL in the 70's and under age 10.

    They were couples that we shared dinner with on a cruise out of
    Rotterdam, all middle aged or older.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From keithr0@me@bugger.off.com.au to aus.cars on Thu Jan 8 21:34:30 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 6/01/2026 6:45 am, alvey wrote:
    keithr0 wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 1:37 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 9:23 am, keithr0 wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 6:10 am, alvey wrote:


    We know nothig about your "Clogwogs" except that you probably
    invented them.

    Unlike you, I don't invent lies.

    No-one to blame but yourself for your tales being doubted Ritcho. You
    know the adage, "If you lay down with Darrens..."

    Better than being in the noddy cult.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From keithr0@me@bugger.off.com.au to aus.cars on Thu Jan 8 21:51:55 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 5/01/2026 5:49 pm, Xeno wrote:
    On 5/1/2026 6:30 pm, Noddy wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 3:29 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 12:14 pm, keithr0 wrote:

    Irrelevant. You made the statement that I should have been taught
    English in early primary school based on the statement of two
    unknown individuals of unknown age and have been shown why that is
    false.

    Nope upright Dutch citizens, with no reason to lie.


    "I've asked a couple of them why that is, the answer always was
    that they started learning it as soon as they started school."

    Not in the 70's they most certainly didn't and if so not until the
    early 90's and you have been shown why that is.

    The wiki article on the subject:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language_in_the_Netherlands

    Hmmm, nothing in that link mentions specific dates or eras, it mostly
    refers to the here and now. In fact, is still refers to children
    starting English classes at age 10 and up.

    And here:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_education_by_region

    From your own link. And that is reflective of *contemporary times*.
    Clocky was schooled in the 70s, hardly relevant to *now*.

    -a-a-a On average in Europe, at the start of foreign language teaching,
    -a-a-a pupils have lessons for three to four hours a week. Compulsory
    -a-a-a lessons in a foreign language normally start at the end of
    -a-a-a primary school or the start of secondary school.

    It would appear that English is a very common language in that part of

    *is*, not *was*. French and German were common in Clocky's time.

    It was in 1955 when I first visited Amsterdam as a teenager.

    the world, and has been part of the school curriculum for longer than
    you make out :)

    Nobody is arguing that Darren, the real issue is at what age. Clocky
    left the NL before he aged into compulsory English classes - and that is
    the point you cannot understand.

    And, as usual, Darren provides links that, he does not read, does not understand, show that Clocky is correct.


    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From keithr0@me@bugger.off.com.au to aus.cars on Thu Jan 8 21:54:21 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 6/01/2026 7:58 am, Xeno wrote:
    On 5/1/2026 11:47 pm, Noddy wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 10:50 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 3:30 pm, Noddy wrote:

    *None* of which applied to me as English was not taught in primary
    school in the 70's when I was 9.

    English in primary school only became commonplace long after I
    arrived here.

    As usual, you've danced your little dance. 97% of clog wearers speak
    English and have done for some time according to various sources, and
    that's probably more than here. But you never spoke a word of it until
    you arrived here?

    I'm calling bullshit.

    You? Calling bullshit? That's the laugh of the century right there!
    Next you'll be telling us you had *first hand experience* in the
    Netherlands of the 70s.

    I had first hand experience of the Netherlands of the 50s.

    Just between you and I, Clocky's credence here is way greater than
    yours. You see, his is a *lived experience*, he was actually there in
    the era concerned. What's more, he attended school there! You don't get
    more direct firsthand experience than that!

    Your singular experience is reading Wikipedia articles that prove your limited depth of understanding.

    A perfect example;
    -a-a In the following decades, with American-dominated globalization,
    -a-a English gradually increased in importance as a lingua franca, at
    -a-a the expense of both German and French, which lost popularity as
    -a-a second languages in the latter half of the 20th century.

    Clocky said German and French were the second languages of his era, the above excerpt from Wikipedia bears that out and there is plenty of
    evidence that, once English became dominant, it was initially taught
    beyond the age of 10 - and not before.

    Again Darren, you are in no position to call bullshit on Clocky's *lived experience* so I suggest you pull your head in and STFU.


    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From keithr0@me@bugger.off.com.au to aus.cars on Thu Jan 8 21:56:58 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 5/01/2026 10:00 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 3:20 pm, Noddy wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 2:58 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 11:17 am, keithr0 wrote:


    You did not post a fact, you posted the output of some unknown "AI".
    If you think that I stopped some random "Clogwogs" in the street,
    you are even more stupid that I have given you credit for, these
    were intelligent people with whom I had a social relationship, far
    more reliable than some anonymous clown from the Sunshine Coast.


    Irrelevant. You made the statement that I should have been taught
    English in early primary school based on the statement of two unknown
    individuals of unknown age and have been shown why that is false.

    So answer a direct question. Did they teach English in schools during
    your time there, and what period are we talking about?


    Not in primary school and not in the 70's and not when I was 9.
    It wasn't taught until upper primary/secondary school but I was here by then.

    Maybe you were in a "Special" school

    You can't admit the basis of your comment was false and are failing
    to squirm your way out of your predicament.

    You're the one that can clear this up given you were there, but I'm
    tipping that you'll do your usual act of dancing around the subject
    rather than be definitive.


    I've already answered it elsewhere.

    BTW, your use of the term "Clogwogs" is both demeaning to your
    friend clocky, and possibly in breach of hate speech laws.


    No need to get offended on my behalf you ridiculous prat. I call
    myself a "Clogwog" too.

    Surely you can-a do better than that.



    The truth will do.



    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From keithr0@me@bugger.off.com.au to aus.cars on Thu Jan 8 22:03:51 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 7/01/2026 10:54 am, alvey wrote:
    Noddy wrote:
    On 6/01/2026 8:58 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 8:47 pm, Noddy wrote:


    As usual, you've danced your little dance. 97% of clog wearers speak
    English and have done for some time according to various sources,
    and that's probably more than here. But you never spoke a word of it
    until you arrived here?

    I'm calling bullshit.




    You can call it what you like, the facts don't lie.

    *What* facts?

    There is no irrefutable history of when English was taught in Dutch
    schools, and there is-a irrefutable history of what year levels were
    subjected to it when it was. There is no irrefutable proof Dutch was
    the only language you spoke when you came to this country, and there
    isn't even a comment about when that was.

    There are no "facts" in use here. Just some fucking story from you
    with the usual amount of support, which is zip.

    Oh give it up Buffo.

    Despite your desperate squealing, the case against Richo's snipe has
    been comprehensively quashed. And despite the hard evidence that has
    been supplied, the most compelling proof is that Richo has run away.

    Wrong as usual, try harder.

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Noddy@me@home.com to aus.cars on Thu Jan 8 23:04:37 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 8/01/2026 10:28 pm, keithr0 wrote:

    On 6/01/2026 9:58 pm, Xeno wrote:

    For a car to enter a mode that required the owner to clear it, it
    would require it to set a *permanent code* and a standard OBD2
    reader cannot clear a permanent DTC. These codes are specifically
    designed to remain in the system until the underlying emissions-
    related fault is genuinely fixed and the vehicle's computer
    confirms the repair over several drive cycles, with the only way
    to clear them being to resolve the issue and allow the car to
    complete all the necessary monitors.

    So "Permanent" codes aren't permanent, just longer lived. They will
    clear id the condition is fixed, or, if it was only a transient
    condition, and didn't re-occur for some number of cycles.

    In a nutshell, yes.

    All three types of code have the same life cycle in that they have to go through the same number of restart cycles before they're deleted. The
    only difference between "permanent" and "Stored" & "Pending" codes is
    that the latter two refer to a transient condition while the former
    refers to a "permanent" one.

    That's why they're called "Permanent" codes. not because they have an indefinite life in the machine, but because they relate to a hard fault
    that cannot correct itself and needs to be repaired.

    CAT related PDTCs require the maximum number of cycles. After all,
    the reason the ECU sets permanent codes is to protect the CAT.
    Therefore Darren's story is flawed from the get go. Remember,
    Darren initially stated the owner had to clear the codes to keep
    using the vehicle. Bzzztt, I call bullshit. If it got to the stage
    where the vehicle couldn't be driven and needed a code clearing,
    then I know a simple code reader isn't going to cut it. Did I
    mention, the *historical* freeze frames, up to 7 typically, would
    remain on many vehicles and these can be read by factory scantools
    and upper end non dealer scanners.

    A manufacturer may include more, but OBD2 only requires 1

    Only one copy of freeze frame data exists at any time, and the mental
    case's claims of "up to 7 typically" is a complete fabrication.

    Freeze frame data is generated at the time the fault that trips the
    permanent code occurs, and the reason why only one freeze frame file
    exists is because it is *not* date and time stamped. Generating more
    than one freeze frame file would be useless, as if more than one existed
    you would have no idea which one was relevant to the fault you were
    looking to repair :)

    The mental case likes AI, so here's some he can amuse himself with:

    No, freeze frame data is not permanently stored; it's a temporary
    snapshot tied to a specific fault code and can be erased when the
    code is cleared, the battery is disconnected, or a higher-priority
    fault occurs, overriding older data. It's stored in the vehicle's
    memory until a reset action, but it's not indefinite, disappearing
    with clearing actions or new, significant issues, though "Permanent
    DTCs" (PDTCs) require fixing the underlying problem and driving
    cycles to clear.

    As mentioned, Freeze frame data is *not* permanent. Nor is more than one
    copy of such data ever stored at one time, and the mental case's claims
    to the contrary are pure make believe.

    So are his claims that the owner had to keep clearing the codes to use
    the vehcile, which is yet another of his wild fabrications. The owner
    never had to do any such thing at all, and the vehicle remained in
    perfect running condition. The *only* reason he repeatedly cleared the
    codes was to extinguish the Check Engine light which he found annoying.

    This is yet another example of how despite all the noise this clown
    likes to make, how little he actually knows. As mentioned, the vehicle
    in question never had a "Permanent" fault to begin with, and any freeze
    frame data generated was gone once the code was cleared and the minimum
    number of fault free restart cycles exceeded. The car was never in a
    position where it couldn't be driven, and even if it had a hard
    permanent misfire it would *still* be able to be driven on 7 cylinders.

    Little does he know, but that's how the things are designed to operate.
    In the case of a cylinder issue that doesn't correct itself, the ECU
    shuts down power and spark to the offending cylinder so the car can
    continue to be used, albeit somewhat roughly. It does not disable the
    vehicle, and the suggestion that it does is a complete and utter nonsense.

    This is all easily verifiable by anyone who wishes to do their own
    research, and if they do they will find that the system works exactly as
    I've said it does. The fact that these two "licensed buffoons" keep
    shifting their positions on this and contradicting themselves with every
    post shows that their frantic googling is no substitute for actual real
    world experience, and if these clowns are any indicator of just how well
    the automotive word runs when the licensing system "weeds out the
    shonks" then I'm quite happy for Victoria to remain unlicensed forever :)
    --
    --
    --
    Regards,
    Noddy.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Xeno@xenolith@optusnet.com.au to aus.cars on Thu Jan 8 23:25:17 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 8/1/2026 10:51 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 5:49 pm, Xeno wrote:
    On 5/1/2026 6:30 pm, Noddy wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 3:29 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 12:14 pm, keithr0 wrote:

    Irrelevant. You made the statement that I should have been taught >>>>>> English in early primary school based on the statement of two
    unknown individuals of unknown age and have been shown why that is >>>>>> false.

    Nope upright Dutch citizens, with no reason to lie.


    "I've asked a couple of them why that is, the answer always was
    that they started learning it as soon as they started school."

    Not in the 70's they most certainly didn't and if so not until the
    early 90's and you have been shown why that is.

    The wiki article on the subject:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language_in_the_Netherlands

    Hmmm, nothing in that link mentions specific dates or eras, it mostly
    refers to the here and now. In fact, is still refers to children
    starting English classes at age 10 and up.

    And here:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_education_by_region

    -aFrom your own link. And that is reflective of *contemporary times*.
    Clocky was schooled in the 70s, hardly relevant to *now*.

    -a-a-a-a On average in Europe, at the start of foreign language teaching,
    -a-a-a-a pupils have lessons for three to four hours a week. Compulsory
    -a-a-a-a lessons in a foreign language normally start at the end of
    -a-a-a-a primary school or the start of secondary school.

    It would appear that English is a very common language in that part of

    *is*, not *was*. French and German were common in Clocky's time.

    It was in 1955 when I first visited Amsterdam as a teenager.

    More so then!

    the world, and has been part of the school curriculum for longer than
    you make out :)

    Nobody is arguing that Darren, the real issue is at what age. Clocky
    left the NL before he aged into compulsory English classes - and that
    is the point you cannot understand.

    And, as usual, Darren provides links that, he does not read, does not
    understand, show that Clocky is correct.


    --
    Xeno

    Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
    (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Xeno@xenolith@optusnet.com.au to aus.cars on Thu Jan 8 23:27:38 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 8/1/2026 10:54 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 6/01/2026 7:58 am, Xeno wrote:
    On 5/1/2026 11:47 pm, Noddy wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 10:50 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 3:30 pm, Noddy wrote:

    *None* of which applied to me as English was not taught in primary
    school in the 70's when I was 9.

    English in primary school only became commonplace long after I
    arrived here.

    As usual, you've danced your little dance. 97% of clog wearers speak
    English and have done for some time according to various sources, and
    that's probably more than here. But you never spoke a word of it
    until you arrived here?

    I'm calling bullshit.

    You? Calling bullshit? That's the laugh of the century right there!
    Next you'll be telling us you had *first hand experience* in the
    Netherlands of the 70s.

    I had first hand experience of the Netherlands of the 50s.

    Clocky had first hand experience of being born there and educated there
    until the age of 9. Did you go to primary school in the NL? Did you just
    deal with *adults*? More to the point, your point is?

    Just between you and I, Clocky's credence here is way greater than
    yours. You see, his is a *lived experience*, he was actually there in
    the era concerned. What's more, he attended school there! You don't
    get more direct firsthand experience than that!

    Your singular experience is reading Wikipedia articles that prove your
    limited depth of understanding.

    A perfect example;
    -a-a-a In the following decades, with American-dominated globalization,
    -a-a-a English gradually increased in importance as a lingua franca, at
    -a-a-a the expense of both German and French, which lost popularity as
    -a-a-a second languages in the latter half of the 20th century.

    Clocky said German and French were the second languages of his era,
    the above excerpt from Wikipedia bears that out and there is plenty of
    evidence that, once English became dominant, it was initially taught
    beyond the age of 10 - and not before.

    Again Darren, you are in no position to call bullshit on Clocky's
    *lived experience* so I suggest you pull your head in and STFU.


    --
    Xeno

    Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
    (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Xeno@xenolith@optusnet.com.au to aus.cars on Thu Jan 8 23:37:28 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 8/1/2026 11:04 pm, Noddy wrote:

    So are his claims that the owner had to keep clearing the codes to use
    the vehcile, which is yet another of his wild fabrications. The owner
    never had to do any such thing at all, and the vehicle remained in
    perfect running condition. The *only* reason he repeatedly cleared the
    codes was to extinguish the Check Engine light which he found annoying.

    I call bullshit.

    This is yet another example of how despite all the noise this clown
    likes to make, how little he actually knows. As mentioned, the vehicle
    in question never had a "Permanent" fault to begin with, and any freeze frame data generated was gone once the code was cleared and the minimum number of fault free restart cycles exceeded. The car was never in a position where it couldn't be driven, and even if it had a hard
    permanent misfire it would *still* be able to be driven on 7 cylinders.

    Little does he know, but that's how the things are designed to operate.
    In the case of a cylinder issue that doesn't correct itself, the ECU
    shuts down power and spark to the offending cylinder so the car can
    continue to be used, albeit somewhat roughly. It does not disable the vehicle, and the suggestion that it does is a complete and utter nonsense.

    You really do not understand what goes on, do you? Shut down spark and
    fuel to the misfiring cylinder will *create* a far worse issue. The
    unburnt air going through that one cylinder will create the semblance of
    a *lean mixture* at the O2 sensor and, therefore, the mixture in all
    running cylinders will be enriched. That will pass raw unburnt fuel to
    the cat and that fuel will ignite *in the cat* and proceed to burn the
    guts out of it. The forced limp mode that the car will drop into is to
    prevent damage to the cat by this very means. You really have no clue.
    Easy to see, Google is not your friend. Big gaps in your Googled
    learning, huge gaps.

    This is all easily verifiable by anyone who wishes to do their own
    research, and if they do they will find that the system works exactly as I've said it does. The fact that these two "licensed buffoons" keep
    shifting their positions on this and contradicting themselves with every post shows that their frantic googling is no substitute for actual real world experience, and if these clowns are any indicator of just how well
    the automotive word runs when the licensing system "weeds out the
    shonks" then I'm quite happy for Victoria to remain unlicensed forever :)










    --
    Xeno

    Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
    (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Noddy@me@home.com to aus.cars on Fri Jan 9 00:19:33 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 8/01/2026 9:39 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 7/01/2026 8:38 am, Xeno wrote:

    We need to go back to his original story. He reckons he couldn't
    find anything wrong with this particular vehicle it and it all
    checked out fine - but then also claimed he never even bothered to
    even plug in his scan tool - for a suspected injector misfire!

    If you're going to "go back", then you need to go back to the truth. Not
    your reinvented version of it.

    As I mentioned at the time, when the vehicle was bought to me it was
    done so for a regular service. Not specifically for the fault which
    wasn't occurring at the time. Whenever someone drops off a car to me I routinely ask if there is anything that needs looking at while I have
    it, and that's when he mentioned he'd been having random issues and
    mentioned the "cylinder "misfire" fault code (I think it was P0302, but
    I can't remember for sure now as it was some time ago).

    I asked how often it happened and he said "every now and then at random"
    and the last time was "a couple of weeks ago". That's when he mentioned
    the bluetooth dongle he kept permanently plugged into his obd2 port and
    that he deleted the check engine light with an app on his phone.

    As I said, when it arrived at my place the car was running perfectly
    fine. There was nothing to check, but I played with it anyway.

    So how the fuck would he know if everything checked out fine if he
    never even checked for history codes or any data?

    You must be trolling as you can't be this stupid by accident.

    You've been told a number of times now that there was nothing to check.
    The DTC had been deleted the last time the fault occurred, and the
    engine had been through *more* than enough restart cycles for the record
    of it to have been permanently deleted.

    He already knew that the owner had been clearing codes himself which
    means that the data likely *would* reveal the problem - at least to
    someone who bothered (or to be precise knew how) to actually check
    to determine what might be the problem.

    You are clueless beyond belief. There is no permanently retained data. Whatever information that is generated while the DTC is active is
    deleted along with the code once the successful restart cycle count is reached.

    Feel free to demonstrate how that is *not* the case.

    But no, he started swapping parts which is the approach of someone
    who is clueless when you have a diagnostic tool at your disposal.

    Swapping a suspected faulty part for a known good one is a legitimate diagnostic procedure and has been for decades. It is a widespread
    recommended procedure not only in the automotive industry, but by
    electronics component manufacturers, machinery manufacturers, appliance manufacturers, and just about anyone that makes any kind of device that
    has removable parts that can cause problems.

    The fact that you see it as "clueless" tells anyone all they need to
    know about your mechanical ability.

    It was in a thread where I tried to help Daryl diagnose a fault and
    was crucified for it and so bruised was his ego that he felt the
    need to bignote himself as a hero mechanic as a distraction yet all
    he achieved was to reveal that was absolutely fucking clueless.

    What a brilliant own goal it was :-)

    Feel free to cite the post so everyone can see that you're telling the
    truth here and not just making this shit up to try to make yourself look
    less stupid than you already have done. Remember, I don't set the
    no_archive flag on my posts, so unlike stale fault codes that have gone through the minimum number of successful restarts my posts will still be
    out there :)

    No fucking wonder you've been relegated to the accessory fitting end of
    the automotive world....
    --
    --
    --
    Regards,
    Noddy.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Noddy@me@home.com to aus.cars on Fri Jan 9 00:22:43 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 8/01/2026 10:56 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 10:00 pm, Clocky wrote:

    Not in primary school and not in the 70's and not when I was 9.
    It wasn't taught until upper primary/secondary school but I was here
    by then.

    Maybe you were in a "Special" school

    Occam's razor :)
    --
    --
    --
    Regards,
    Noddy.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From alvey@Hans.Andnees@gmail.com to aus.cars on Fri Jan 9 07:43:18 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    keithr0 wrote:
    On 7/01/2026 10:54 am, alvey wrote:
    Noddy wrote:
    On 6/01/2026 8:58 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 8:47 pm, Noddy wrote:


    As usual, you've danced your little dance. 97% of clog wearers
    speak English and have done for some time according to various
    sources, and that's probably more than here. But you never spoke a
    word of it until you arrived here?

    I'm calling bullshit.




    You can call it what you like, the facts don't lie.

    *What* facts?

    There is no irrefutable history of when English was taught in Dutch
    schools, and there is-a irrefutable history of what year levels were
    subjected to it when it was. There is no irrefutable proof Dutch was
    the only language you spoke when you came to this country, and there
    isn't even a comment about when that was.

    There are no "facts" in use here. Just some fucking story from you
    with the usual amount of support, which is zip.

    Oh give it up Buffo.

    Despite your desperate squealing, the case against Richo's snipe has
    been comprehensively quashed. And despite the hard evidence that has
    been supplied, the most compelling proof is that Richo has run away.

    Wrong as usual, try harder.

    Why do something unnecessary?

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From alvey@Hans.Andnees@gmail.com to aus.cars on Fri Jan 9 07:46:37 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    keithr0 wrote:


    In that case you need to provide greater details of your Clogwogs to
    determine why they might have made that comment which doesn't apply to
    anyone who was schooled in NL in the 70's and under age 10.

    They were couples that we shared dinner with on a cruise out of
    Rotterdam, all middle aged or older.

    lol!
    And you can't understand why I think you're a lightweight.

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From alvey@Hans.Andnees@gmail.com to aus.cars on Fri Jan 9 07:49:25 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    keithr0 wrote:
    On 6/01/2026 6:45 am, alvey wrote:
    keithr0 wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 1:37 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 9:23 am, keithr0 wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 6:10 am, alvey wrote:


    We know nothig about your "Clogwogs" except that you probably
    invented them.

    Unlike you, I don't invent lies.

    No-one to blame but yourself for your tales being doubted Ritcho. You
    know the adage, "If you lay down with Darrens..."

    Better than being in the noddy cult.

    Errrr. It's *you* who is in "the noddy cult" Ritcho.

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From alvey@Hans.Andnees@gmail.com to aus.cars on Fri Jan 9 07:55:15 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    Noddy wrote:
    On 8/01/2026 9:39 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 7/01/2026 8:38 am, Xeno wrote:

    We need to go back to his original story. He reckons he couldn't find
    anything wrong with this particular vehicle it and it all checked out
    fine - but then also claimed he never even bothered to even plug in
    his scan tool - for a suspected injector misfire!

    If you're going to "go back", then you need to go back to the truth. Not
    your reinvented version of it.

    As I mentioned at the time, when the vehicle was bought to me it was
    done so for a regular service. Not specifically for the fault which
    wasn't occurring at the time. Whenever someone drops off a car to me I routinely ask if there is anything that needs looking at while I have
    it, and that's when he mentioned he'd been having random issues and
    mentioned the "cylinder "misfire" fault code (I think it was P0302, but
    I can't remember for sure now as it was some time ago).

    Been down this road before Buffo. It seems *highly* unlikely to me that
    the only vehicles which you've "serviced" in your tin shed are those of
    your immediate family. Feel free to prove otherwise.


    snip dubious
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From keithr0@me@bugger.off.com.au to aus.cars on Fri Jan 9 09:01:56 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 9/01/2026 7:43 am, alvey wrote:
    keithr0 wrote:
    On 7/01/2026 10:54 am, alvey wrote:
    Noddy wrote:
    On 6/01/2026 8:58 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 8:47 pm, Noddy wrote:


    As usual, you've danced your little dance. 97% of clog wearers
    speak English and have done for some time according to various
    sources, and that's probably more than here. But you never spoke a >>>>>> word of it until you arrived here?

    I'm calling bullshit.




    You can call it what you like, the facts don't lie.

    *What* facts?

    There is no irrefutable history of when English was taught in Dutch
    schools, and there is-a irrefutable history of what year levels were
    subjected to it when it was. There is no irrefutable proof Dutch was
    the only language you spoke when you came to this country, and there
    isn't even a comment about when that was.

    There are no "facts" in use here. Just some fucking story from you
    with the usual amount of support, which is zip.

    Oh give it up Buffo.

    Despite your desperate squealing, the case against Richo's snipe has
    been comprehensively quashed. And despite the hard evidence that has
    been supplied, the most compelling proof is that Richo has run away.

    Wrong as usual, try harder.

    Why do something unnecessary?

    Everything that you do around here is unnecessary.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From keithr0@me@bugger.off.com.au to aus.cars on Fri Jan 9 09:06:25 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 9/01/2026 7:46 am, alvey wrote:
    keithr0 wrote:


    In that case you need to provide greater details of your Clogwogs to
    determine why they might have made that comment which doesn't apply
    to anyone who was schooled in NL in the 70's and under age 10.

    They were couples that we shared dinner with on a cruise out of
    Rotterdam, all middle aged or older.

    lol!
    And you can't understand why I think you're a lightweight.

    I'm not sure that you actually think. It's rather like when I throw a
    ball, my dog will automatically run after it, when particular people
    here make a post, you automatically react with some nonsense, no
    thinking involved.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From keithr0@me@bugger.off.com.au to aus.cars on Fri Jan 9 09:08:29 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 9/01/2026 7:49 am, alvey wrote:
    keithr0 wrote:
    On 6/01/2026 6:45 am, alvey wrote:
    keithr0 wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 1:37 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 9:23 am, keithr0 wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 6:10 am, alvey wrote:


    We know nothig about your "Clogwogs" except that you probably
    invented them.

    Unlike you, I don't invent lies.

    No-one to blame but yourself for your tales being doubted Ritcho. You
    know the adage, "If you lay down with Darrens..."

    Better than being in the noddy cult.

    Errrr. It's *you* who is in "the noddy cult" Ritcho.

    ROTFL, it isn't me that automatically responds to everything that he
    posts with the same old tired crap.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From keithr0@me@bugger.off.com.au to aus.cars on Fri Jan 9 09:11:50 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 9/01/2026 7:55 am, alvey wrote:
    Noddy wrote:
    On 8/01/2026 9:39 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 7/01/2026 8:38 am, Xeno wrote:

    We need to go back to his original story. He reckons he couldn't find
    anything wrong with this particular vehicle it and it all checked out
    fine - but then also claimed he never even bothered to even plug in
    his scan tool - for a suspected injector misfire!

    If you're going to "go back", then you need to go back to the truth. Not
    your reinvented version of it.

    As I mentioned at the time, when the vehicle was bought to me it was
    done so for a regular service. Not specifically for the fault which
    wasn't occurring at the time. Whenever someone drops off a car to me I
    routinely ask if there is anything that needs looking at while I have
    it, and that's when he mentioned he'd been having random issues and
    mentioned the "cylinder "misfire" fault code (I think it was P0302, but
    I can't remember for sure now as it was some time ago).

    Been down this road before Buffo. It seems *highly* unlikely to me that
    the only vehicles which you've "serviced" in your tin shed are those of
    your immediate family. Feel free to prove otherwise.

    You're out of your depth with technical stuff, you do better to keep
    your mouth shut and not embarrass yourself.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From alvey@Hans.Andnees@gmail.com to aus.cars on Fri Jan 9 09:32:35 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    keithr0 wrote:
    On 9/01/2026 7:49 am, alvey wrote:
    keithr0 wrote:
    On 6/01/2026 6:45 am, alvey wrote:
    keithr0 wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 1:37 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 9:23 am, keithr0 wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 6:10 am, alvey wrote:


    We know nothig about your "Clogwogs" except that you probably
    invented them.

    Unlike you, I don't invent lies.

    No-one to blame but yourself for your tales being doubted Ritcho.
    You know the adage, "If you lay down with Darrens..."

    Better than being in the noddy cult.

    Errrr. It's *you* who is in "the noddy cult" Ritcho.

    ROTFL, it isn't me that automatically responds to everything that he
    posts with the same old tired crap.

    *Still* wrong Richo. If there was such a thing as an organised group of
    people who pointed out the Fraudster's lies, hypocrisy, cowardice etc
    etc, then they'd be an "Anti-Fraudster Cult".

    For another thing... a cult usually has a leader, so 'we' can't be that
    as "We're an anarcho-syndicalist commune...".




    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From jonz@Nothere@oroverthere.com to aus.cars on Fri Jan 9 10:39:22 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 08-Jan-26 11:04 PM, Noddy wrote:
    On 8/01/2026 10:28 pm, keithr0 wrote:

    On 6/01/2026 9:58 pm, Xeno wrote:

    For a car to enter a mode that required the owner to clear it, it
    would require it to set a *permanent code* and a standard OBD2
    reader cannot clear a permanent DTC. These codes are specifically
    designed to remain in the system until the underlying emissions-
    related fault is genuinely fixed and the vehicle's computer
    confirms the repair over several drive cycles, with the only way
    to clear them being to resolve the issue and allow the car to
    complete all the necessary monitors.

    So "Permanent" codes aren't permanent, just longer lived. They will
    clear id the condition is fixed, or, if it was only a transient
    condition, and didn't re-occur for some number of cycles.

    In a nutshell, yes.

    All three types of code have the same life cycle in that they have to go through the same number of restart cycles before they're deleted. The
    only difference between "permanent" and "Stored" & "Pending" codes is
    that the latter two refer to a transient condition while the former
    refers to a "permanent" one.

    That's why they're called "Permanent" codes. not because they have an indefinite life in the machine, but because they relate to a hard fault
    that cannot correct itself and needs to be repaired.

    CAT related PDTCs require the maximum number of cycles. After all,
    the reason the ECU sets permanent codes is to protect the CAT.
    Therefore Darren's story is flawed from the get go. Remember,
    Darren initially stated the owner had to clear the codes to keep
    using the vehicle. Bzzztt, I call bullshit. If it got to the stage
    where the vehicle couldn't be driven and needed a code clearing,
    then I know a simple code reader isn't going to cut it. Did I
    mention, the *historical* freeze frames, up to 7 typically, would
    remain on many vehicles and these can be read by factory scantools
    and upper end non dealer scanners.

    A manufacturer may include more, but OBD2 only requires 1

    Only one copy of freeze frame data exists at any time, and the mental
    case's claims of "up to 7 typically" is a complete fabrication.

    Freeze frame data is generated at the time the fault that trips the
    permanent code occurs, and the reason why only one freeze frame file
    exists is because it is *not* date and time stamped. Generating more
    than one freeze frame file would be useless, as if more than one existed
    you would have no idea which one was relevant to the fault you were
    looking to repair :)

    The mental case likes AI, so here's some he can amuse himself with:

    No, freeze frame data is not permanently stored; it's a temporary
    snapshot tied to a specific fault code and can be erased when the
    code is cleared, the battery is disconnected, or a higher-priority
    fault occurs, overriding older data. It's stored in the vehicle's
    memory until a reset action, but it's not indefinite, disappearing
    with clearing actions or new, significant issues, though "Permanent
    DTCs" (PDTCs) require fixing the underlying problem and driving
    cycles to clear.

    As mentioned, Freeze frame data is *not* permanent. Nor is more than one copy of such data ever stored at one time, and the mental case's claims
    to the contrary are pure make believe.

    So are his claims that the owner had to keep clearing the codes to use
    the vehcile, which is yet another of his wild fabrications. The owner
    never had to do any such thing at all, and the vehicle remained in
    perfect running condition. The *only* reason he repeatedly cleared the
    codes was to extinguish the Check Engine light which he found annoying.

    This is yet another example of how despite all the noise this clown
    likes to make, how little he actually knows. As mentioned, the vehicle
    in question never had a "Permanent" fault to begin with, and any freeze frame data generated was gone once the code was cleared and the minimum number of fault free restart cycles exceeded. The car was never in a position where it couldn't be driven, and even if it had a hard
    permanent misfire it would *still* be able to be driven on 7 cylinders.

    Little does he know, but that's how the things are designed to operate.
    In the case of a cylinder issue that doesn't correct itself, the ECU
    shuts down power and spark to the offending cylinder so the car can
    continue to be used, albeit somewhat roughly. It does not disable the vehicle, and the suggestion that it does is a complete and utter nonsense.

    This is all easily verifiable by anyone who wishes to do their own
    research, and if they do they will find that the system works exactly as I've said it does. The fact that these two "licensed buffoons" keep
    shifting their positions on this and contradicting themselves with every post shows that their frantic googling is no substitute for actual real world experience, and if these clowns are any indicator of just how well
    the automotive word runs when the licensing system "weeds out the
    shonks" then I'm quite happy for Victoria to remain unlicensed forever :)

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    The old adage:
    "If you can`t dazzle them with Brilliance, baffle them
    with *bullshit*".. Comes to mind!.


    word soup, buckets full of it!!!! ;) >









    --
    Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea--Massive,
    difficult to redirect, awe inspiring, entertaining and a source of mind boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it!!!!. Gene Spafford
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From alvey@Hans.Andnees@gmail.com to aus.cars on Fri Jan 9 09:39:37 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    keithr0 wrote:
    On 9/01/2026 7:55 am, alvey wrote:
    Noddy wrote:
    On 8/01/2026 9:39 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 7/01/2026 8:38 am, Xeno wrote:

    We need to go back to his original story. He reckons he couldn't
    find anything wrong with this particular vehicle it and it all
    checked out fine - but then also claimed he never even bothered to
    even plug in his scan tool - for a suspected injector misfire!

    If you're going to "go back", then you need to go back to the truth. Not >>> your reinvented version of it.

    As I mentioned at the time, when the vehicle was bought to me it was
    done so for a regular service. Not specifically for the fault which
    wasn't occurring at the time. Whenever someone drops off a car to me I
    routinely ask if there is anything that needs looking at while I have
    it, and that's when he mentioned he'd been having random issues and
    mentioned the "cylinder "misfire" fault code (I think it was P0302, but
    I can't remember for sure now as it was some time ago).

    Been down this road before Buffo. It seems *highly* unlikely to me
    that the only vehicles which you've "serviced" in your tin shed are
    those of your immediate family. Feel free to prove otherwise.

    You're out of your depth with technical stuff, you do better to keep
    your mouth shut and not embarrass yourself.

    And where did I make any "technical" any comment Richo?

    And there's no "embarrassment" here Lightweight. I haven't done anything embarrassing and you and Fraudster are incapable of feeling embarrassed. Unless of course you count running away as "embarrassment".

    hth


    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Xeno@xenolith@optusnet.com.au to aus.cars on Fri Jan 9 11:10:17 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 9/1/2026 8:49 am, alvey wrote:
    keithr0 wrote:
    On 6/01/2026 6:45 am, alvey wrote:
    keithr0 wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 1:37 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 9:23 am, keithr0 wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 6:10 am, alvey wrote:


    We know nothig about your "Clogwogs" except that you probably
    invented them.

    Unlike you, I don't invent lies.

    No-one to blame but yourself for your tales being doubted Ritcho. You
    know the adage, "If you lay down with Darrens..."

    Better than being in the noddy cult.

    Errrr. It's *you* who is in "the noddy cult" Ritcho.

    That should have been obvious, even to the likes of him. After all, *he* worships Noddy!
    --
    Xeno

    Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
    (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Noddy@me@home.com to aus.cars on Fri Jan 9 11:21:44 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 9/01/2026 10:39 am, jonz wrote:
    On 08-Jan-26 11:04 PM, Noddy wrote:

    This is all easily verifiable by anyone who wishes to do their own
    research, and if they do they will find that the system works exactly
    as I've said it does. The fact that these two "licensed buffoons" keep
    shifting their positions on this and contradicting themselves with
    every post shows that their frantic googling is no substitute for
    actual real world experience, and if these clowns are any indicator of
    just how well the automotive word runs when the licensing system
    "weeds out the shonks" then I'm quite happy for Victoria to remain
    unlicensed forever :)

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    -aThe old adage:
    -a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a "If you can`t dazzle them with Brilliance, baffle them
    with *bullshit*".. Comes to mind!.


    word soup, buckets full of it!!!! ;) >

    The pair of these incompetent fuckstains have zero experience and
    absolutely *no* idea what the hell they're talking about, but they'll
    continue to insist they're correct despite there being no evidence
    whatsoever to support a single word they say, because making themselves
    look like total spastics rather than admit they were ever wrong is
    precisely what they do.

    It's pathetic really, but it's their standard operating procedure and
    we've all seen it *many* times :)
    --
    --
    --
    Regards,
    Noddy.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Noddy@me@home.com to aus.cars on Fri Jan 9 11:25:34 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 9/01/2026 10:11 am, keithr0 wrote:
    On 9/01/2026 7:55 am, alvey wrote:

    As I mentioned at the time, when the vehicle was bought to me it was
    done so for a regular service. Not specifically for the fault which
    wasn't occurring at the time. Whenever someone drops off a car to me I
    routinely ask if there is anything that needs looking at while I have
    it, and that's when he mentioned he'd been having random issues and
    mentioned the "cylinder "misfire" fault code (I think it was P0302, but
    I can't remember for sure now as it was some time ago).

    Been down this road before Buffo. It seems *highly* unlikely to me
    that the only vehicles which you've "serviced" in your tin shed are
    those of your immediate family. Feel free to prove otherwise.

    You're out of your depth with technical stuff, you do better to keep
    your mouth shut and not embarrass yourself.

    Don't you just love how he imagines himself to know more about someone
    else's life and what they do than they do themselves?

    There's a very good reason why I pegged this bloke as an utter spastic
    from the get-go, and this is it.
    --
    --
    --
    Regards,
    Noddy.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Xeno@xenolith@optusnet.com.au to aus.cars on Fri Jan 9 13:20:26 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 8/1/2026 9:39 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 7/01/2026 8:38 am, Xeno wrote:
    On 6/1/2026 11:47 pm, Noddy wrote:
    On 6/01/2026 10:39 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 5:28 pm, Xeno wrote:


    You cannot delete a permanent code, it stays, you can't delete it,
    you don't go anywhere.

    So, does it stay in the ECU until the day that the car goes to the
    scrappy, or does it clear after a number of cycles without
    re-occurrence?

    Jesus.... This moron plays musical chairs with his position on this
    crap so often it defies belief. He clearly has the recall of a dead
    goldfish :)

    This has been done to death. There are three types of OBD2 error
    codes: Pending, stored and Permanent, and they all relate to the
    number of times a fault occurs relative to the engine's rpm. Each
    component that is monitored for faults by the ECU has a cycle count
    limit, and how the fault occurs relative to that cycle count
    determines the type of fault classification it carries.

    A Pending code is triggered when the ECU detects a momentary fault
    which *doesn't* occur enough times to fall outside the maximum number
    of cycles before correcting itself. In such cases, the ECU recognises
    that the fault has occurred, but because it was only brief it remains
    unconfirmed and the check engine light is *not* illuminated. If the
    fault does not occur again then the code is deleted after a pre set
    time without anyone knowing anything about it.


    A Stored code is triggered when the ECU detects a fault that *does*
    fall outside the maximum number of cycles before correcting itself.
    In such cases, the ECU detects the fault and recognises that it
    repeated itself enough for it to be confirmed, in which case it
    *does* illuminate the check engine light to alert the driver that a
    fault has occurred. In such a case, a Check Engine Light that is the
    result of a stored code trigger can be deleted using a code scanner,
    and it will remain off until such time as either the fault occurs
    again in which case the light will reappear, or the fault clears
    itself and goes away.

    A Permanent code is triggered when there is a hard failure of a
    component that never comes back to life and the ECU records
    continuous failure cycles. In such cases, the Check Engine Light is
    illuminated and *cannot* be deleted until such time as the fault is
    repaired. Once it is and the light is cleared it will stay off unless
    the fault occurs again.

    In some cases, not all, there is also freeze frame data stored that
    is saved along with the code, which is a snapshot of the state of the
    engine's parameters at the time the fault was detected which can make
    diagnosis a hell of a lot easier. However, like the codes themselves,
    the freeze frame data is *not* permanently stored.

    In all of these examples, the one thing they all have in common is
    that there is a minimum number of engine restart cycles that controls
    how long the codes remain active, and for most engines/vehicles that
    number is 40. After 40 successive restarts with no faults being
    recorded, any stored codes are erased, and they are erased
    *permanently*. Nothing is kept, and there is no historical
    information that can be retrieved weeks or months after the fault has
    been rectified and the minimum number of successful restarts reached.
    It's all wiped. Every bit of it.

    And there is a couple of compelling reasons for that.

    Firstly, most vehicle ECU's have *very* little EEPROM storage
    capacity, and this space is usually shared by Identity information,
    driver learning trims, and fault codes. Depending how many faults a
    vehicle had over the course of it's life, if fault codes were stored
    permanently then the ECU would run out of storage capacity before too
    long :)

    Secondly, and probably most logically, if a vehicle had a fault that
    was repaired and the code cleared, there is absolutely zero need for
    a permanent record of that to be kept in the ECU. It would be totally
    redundant information that served no purpose whatsoever.

    In the era of emissions testing, and emissions testing *cheaters*, I
    can see a whole host of reasons why *history data* should be retained.

    This is the way OBD2 has always worked despite the claims of a couple of >>
    Nope, OBD2 has been progressively become much more comprehensive. The
    OBD2 system has not been static since the day it was first
    implemented, that much is certain.

    clueless "experts", and any suggestion that fault codes remain with
    the vehicle forever and can be recalled at any time is pure fantasy
    invented by people who have zero experience.

    In the case of the R8 Clubsport with the cylinder misfire issue that
    ignited this debate to begin with, I knew from the getgo that as it
    had been more than a fortnight since the fault had last occurred and
    the owner cleared the code that the car had gone through *way* more
    than the minimum number of start cycles for the code to be
    permanently deleted which meant plugging in my code scanner would be
    a total waste of time.

    FFS Darren, you weren't even *aware* of *Permanent DTCs*

    And said codes wouldn't be injector or spark related codes, they would
    be *emissions related* codes since such misfires would trigger a
    multitude of *emissions faults*. Again, you lack an understanding of
    how the system operates and the inbuilt dependencies. That's why a
    *code reader* in your hands is a waste of time and money. In your
    hands a code reader turns into a parts cannon. You didn't use a
    scanner because you had no clue how to interpret the data.

    Instead I took the information the owner had given me in relation to
    the code type, determined that it was either a fuel or a spark issue,
    and swapped parts around which I knew would confirm one or the other
    the next time it happened.

    Which is exactly what it did.

    In your delusions!

    Codes are not permanently stored for perpetuity. The fact that the
    pair of these morons think they are tells anyone who would care to do
    their own research that these two imbeciles have absolutely no idea
    what they're talking about.

    No one has ever said PDTCs remain in the ECU into perpetuity. What has
    been stated has been that the codes must be removed by the ECU itself.
    In order to do that the fault must be rectified, the 40 - 80 drive
    cycles completed and a minimum of 300 kilometres of drivetime covered.

    Random faults do not allow the above to occur.



    We need to go back to his original story. He reckons he couldn't find anything wrong with this particular vehicle it and it all checked out
    fine - but then also claimed he never even bothered to even plug in his
    scan tool - for a suspected injector misfire!

    So how the fuck would he know if everything checked out fine if he never even checked for history codes or any data?

    Yes, and a misfire typically will generate more codes than a P030x. For
    a start, if the injector is misfiring, then it will create a lean code
    since the injector is not adding fuel hence no burn hence more oxygen
    into the exhaust. That will be interpreted as a lean condition, trigger
    a P0171 or P0174 and the ECU will takes steps to enrich the mixture
    altering fuel trim vales. That, because of the amount of correction
    required, will trigger DTCs related to fuel trims out of range and, at
    the same time, trigger a Limp Mode condition, again with attendant DTCs.
    If the injector is sticking open, then shit will happen since the ECU
    will generate huge rich code DTCs. If the ignition is the cause of the misfire, then that will create a rich mixture with attendant P0172 or
    P0175 codes because the fuel will not be combusted. That will, in turn,
    lead to fuel burning in the cat which will subsequently overheat - and
    that is seriously bad - basically it kills the cat. Again, a limp mode,
    with attendant DTCs, will be initiated rather than let the cat burn in hell.

    Some people in this newsgroup think they can learn all about this shit
    from tinkering and Google. I have news for them and it's all bad.



    He already knew that the owner had been clearing codes himself which
    means that the data likely *would* reveal the problem - at least to
    someone who bothered (or to be precise knew how) to actually check to determine what might be the problem.

    But no, he started swapping parts which is the approach of someone who
    is clueless when you have a diagnostic tool at your disposal. It was in
    a thread where I tried to help Daryl diagnose a fault and was crucified
    for it and so bruised was his ego that he felt the need to bignote
    himself as a hero mechanic as a distraction yet all he achieved was to reveal that was absolutely fucking clueless.

    What a brilliant own goal it was :-)

    Yeah, he does that a lot.
    --
    Xeno

    Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
    (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Clocky@notgonna@happen.com to aus.cars on Fri Jan 9 13:18:02 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 8/01/2026 7:31 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 2:37 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 12:15 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 1:37 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 9:23 am, keithr0 wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 6:10 am, alvey wrote:
    Noddy wrote:
    On 4/01/2026 10:14 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 4/01/2026 10:41 am, Clocky wrote:

    Bzzzzt. Another comprehension failure on your part. I said I >>>>>>>>> couldn't speak a word of English when I was 9. I didn't say I >>>>>>>>> was 9 when I started school here and it wasn't 1982 anyway.

    That seems odd, I've visited the land of your birth several
    times, and have rarely met anybody who couldn't speak English. >>>>>>>> I've asked a couple of them why that is, the answer always was >>>>>>>> that they started learning it as soon as they started school. >>>>>>>> So, I would have thought that, unless you were particularly
    thick, you'd have at least a basic understanding of English
    after at least 3 years of school.

    It's getting to the point where you can't believe a word the
    bloke says. Just like his mental mate.

    Must be something about the Dutch :)

    And something about you pair is that you are both lazy and stupid. >>>>>>
    So because Retcho allegedly got told something by a couple of
    clog- wogs in the street then that's conclusive proof of the Dutch >>>>>> education system. Jaysus wept! You pair are ridiculous.

    The "Clogwogs" are rather more likely to know something about the
    subject than you or your "AI". Jaysus wept! You are ridiculous.


    We know nothig about your "Clogwogs" except that you probably
    invented them.

    Unlike you, I don't invent lies.


    In that case you need to provide greater details of your Clogwogs to
    determine why they might have made that comment which doesn't apply to
    anyone who was schooled in NL in the 70's and under age 10.

    They were couples that we shared dinner with on a cruise out of
    Rotterdam, all middle aged or older.

    Doesn't change a thing about what I said and all the evidence thus far
    has proved, dufus and given your comprehension issues it's very likely
    you misunderstood what they said said or perhaps their English wasn't
    very good after all and they didn't articulate it properly.

    Even in 2005 there were only *39* VVTO primary schools in the
    Netherlands that taught English from a young age out of 54, the others teaching German or French.

    Out of 7163 primary schools!
    --
    In thread "May need to buy petrol soon" Sept 23 2021 11:15:59am
    Keithr0 wrote: "He made the assertion either he proves it or he is a
    proven liar."

    On Sept 23 2021 3:16:29pm Keithr0 wrote:
    "He asserts that the claim is true, so, if it is unproven, he is lying."
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From keithr0@me@bugger.off.com.au to aus.cars on Fri Jan 9 17:46:01 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 9/01/2026 9:32 am, alvey wrote:
    keithr0 wrote:
    On 9/01/2026 7:49 am, alvey wrote:
    keithr0 wrote:
    On 6/01/2026 6:45 am, alvey wrote:
    keithr0 wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 1:37 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 9:23 am, keithr0 wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 6:10 am, alvey wrote:


    We know nothig about your "Clogwogs" except that you probably
    invented them.

    Unlike you, I don't invent lies.

    No-one to blame but yourself for your tales being doubted Ritcho.
    You know the adage, "If you lay down with Darrens..."

    Better than being in the noddy cult.

    Errrr. It's *you* who is in "the noddy cult" Ritcho.

    ROTFL, it isn't me that automatically responds to everything that he
    posts with the same old tired crap.

    *Still* wrong Richo. If there was such a thing as an organised group of people who pointed out the Fraudster's lies, hypocrisy, cowardice etc
    etc, then they'd be an "Anti-Fraudster Cult".

    You're a cult for sure, you have a religious adherence to a futile quest.

    For another thing... a cult usually has a leader, so 'we' can't be that
    as "We're an anarcho-syndicalist commune...".

    Xeno is the leader, you're the Sergeant at arms, and clocky, well we
    have to cut him some slack, after all he is both Dutch and Western
    Australian.

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From keithr0@me@bugger.off.com.au to aus.cars on Fri Jan 9 17:47:39 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 9/01/2026 10:10 am, Xeno wrote:
    On 9/1/2026 8:49 am, alvey wrote:
    keithr0 wrote:
    On 6/01/2026 6:45 am, alvey wrote:
    keithr0 wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 1:37 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 9:23 am, keithr0 wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 6:10 am, alvey wrote:


    We know nothig about your "Clogwogs" except that you probably
    invented them.

    Unlike you, I don't invent lies.

    No-one to blame but yourself for your tales being doubted Ritcho.
    You know the adage, "If you lay down with Darrens..."

    Better than being in the noddy cult.

    Errrr. It's *you* who is in "the noddy cult" Ritcho.

    That should have been obvious, even to the likes of him. After all, *he* worships Noddy!

    Unfortunately it seems that you are well down on the left side of the
    bell curve, but with delusions of grandeur.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Noddy@me@home.com to aus.cars on Fri Jan 9 20:23:40 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 9/01/2026 6:46 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 9/01/2026 9:32 am, alvey wrote:

    *Still* wrong Richo. If there was such a thing as an organised group
    of people who pointed out the Fraudster's lies, hypocrisy, cowardice
    etc etc, then they'd be an "Anti-Fraudster Cult".

    You're a cult for sure, you have a religious adherence to a futile quest.

    For another thing... a cult usually has a leader, so 'we' can't be
    that as "We're an anarcho-syndicalist commune...".

    Xeno is the leader, you're the Sergeant at arms, and clocky, well we
    have to cut him some slack, after all he is both Dutch and Western Australian.

    ROTFL :)
    --
    --
    --
    Regards,
    Noddy.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From alvey@Factman@gmail.com to aus.cars on Fri Jan 9 20:07:11 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    Noddy wrote:
    On 9/01/2026 10:11 am, keithr0 wrote:
    On 9/01/2026 7:55 am, alvey wrote:

    As I mentioned at the time, when the vehicle was bought to me it was
    done so for a regular service. Not specifically for the fault which
    wasn't occurring at the time. Whenever someone drops off a car to me I >>>> routinely ask if there is anything that needs looking at while I have
    it, and that's when he mentioned he'd been having random issues and
    mentioned the "cylinder "misfire" fault code (I think it was P0302, but >>>> I can't remember for sure now as it was some time ago).

    Been down this road before Buffo. It seems *highly* unlikely to me
    that the only vehicles which you've "serviced" in your tin shed are
    those of your immediate family. Feel free to prove otherwise.

    You're out of your depth with technical stuff, you do better to keep
    your mouth shut and not embarrass yourself.

    Don't you just love how he imagines himself to know more about someone else's life and what they do than they do themselves?

    There's a very good reason why I pegged this bloke as an utter spastic
    from the get-go,

    Sigh.
    One More Time.
    That's just another of the lies you have on rotation Fraudster. And one
    that has been repeatedly shown to be a lie.

    I suppose your other lie that I posed as a young Asian femme to get into
    your fake Facie group can't be far away from its turn now.

    You're hopeless Fraudster.
    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Clocky@notgonna@happen.com to aus.cars on Sat Jan 10 14:49:06 2026
    From Newsgroup: aus.cars

    On 8/01/2026 7:56 pm, keithr0 wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 10:00 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 3:20 pm, Noddy wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 2:58 pm, Clocky wrote:
    On 5/01/2026 11:17 am, keithr0 wrote:


    You did not post a fact, you posted the output of some unknown
    "AI". If you think that I stopped some random "Clogwogs" in the
    street, you are even more stupid that I have given you credit for,
    these were intelligent people with whom I had a social
    relationship, far more reliable than some anonymous clown from the
    Sunshine Coast.


    Irrelevant. You made the statement that I should have been taught
    English in early primary school based on the statement of two
    unknown individuals of unknown age and have been shown why that is
    false.

    So answer a direct question. Did they teach English in schools during
    your time there, and what period are we talking about?


    Not in primary school and not in the 70's and not when I was 9.
    It wasn't taught until upper primary/secondary school but I was here
    by then.

    Maybe you were in a "Special" school


    lol, yeah you could say that.

    I'm guessing neither of you two clowns had a classmate as a friend and
    his older brother attend your RK school with a family name that still
    appears on the wealthiest families in the world list.

    So yeah, pretty special in that regard.

    But since no schools taught English in lower primary school back then
    none of that is relevant.
    --
    In thread "May need to buy petrol soon" Sept 23 2021 11:15:59am
    Keithr0 wrote: "He made the assertion either he proves it or he is a
    proven liar."

    On Sept 23 2021 3:16:29pm Keithr0 wrote:
    "He asserts that the claim is true, so, if it is unproven, he is lying."
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2