• Sorting an Added Toolbar

    From David E. Ross@nobody@nowhere.invalid to alt.windows7.general on Sat Nov 15 09:30:12 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.windows7.general

    Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 x64

    I created an additional toolbar called Applications. For a long time,
    the entries were sorted exactly the way I wanted. Earlier this week,
    however, it disappeared. When I made it visitble again, the entries
    were sorted differently, with folders at the top and other entries
    arranged alphabetically.

    I re-sorted it, and it remained okay during a session. When I rebooted, however, it returned to the sort with folders at the top and other
    entries alphabetically.

    How can I save my preferred sort from one session to the next?
    --

    David E. Ross
    <http:www.rossde.com>

    Some Republican officials have denounced the assassination
    of Charlie Kirk as a conspiracy by liberal Democrats. Why
    then is the attempted kidnapping of the Democrat governor
    of Michigan, the shooting of a Democrat state senator of
    Minnesota, and the assassination of the Democrat speaker
    of the Minnesota state assembly not denounced as a
    conservative Republican conspiracy?

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  • From Paul@nospam@needed.invalid to alt.windows7.general on Sat Nov 15 11:56:42 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.windows7.general

    On Sat, 11/15/2025 12:30 PM, David E. Ross wrote:
    Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 x64

    I created an additional toolbar called Applications. For a long time,
    the entries were sorted exactly the way I wanted. Earlier this week, however, it disappeared. When I made it visitble again, the entries
    were sorted differently, with folders at the top and other entries
    arranged alphabetically.

    I re-sorted it, and it remained okay during a session. When I rebooted, however, it returned to the sort with folders at the top and other
    entries alphabetically.

    How can I save my preferred sort from one session to the next?


    "What are shellbags in Windows?

    Shellbag Definition: Shellbags refers to a group of registry keys and
    key data Windows maintains to remember user viewing
    preferences in Windows Explorer and Windows Open/Save dialogs,
    things like:

    Window location/size.
    Columns to display.
    Column sorting. <===
    Icon size.
    "

    As far as I know, those are LRU (Least Recently Used),
    in that there are a finite number of storage locations
    in the registry set aside. There could be 5000 or 7000
    of them. When you visit this particular directory regularly,
    that folder should have storage priority over a folder
    you have not visited for a couple years.

    *******

    Now, don't do this yet. This is just to show some of the bits and pieces.

    https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/answers/questions/2445476/how-do-i-fix-my-view-settings-and-commands-for-fol

    A folder can have a desktop.ini . It helps if the shell32 entry point
    number exists. When a shell32 entry point is "bogus" and does not exist,
    that can be a symptom of malware. The File explorer usually has a good idea what "kind" of folder it is looking at. I had a problem on WinXP once,
    where I was repeatedly "hitting" shell32 on a non-existent entry point.

    This one is for my Pictures folder.

    [.ShellClassInfo] LocalizedResourceName=@%SystemRoot%\system32\shell32.dll,-21779 InfoTip=@%SystemRoot%\system32\shell32.dll,-12688 IconResource=%SystemRoot%\system32\imageres.dll,-113 IconFile=%SystemRoot%\system32\shell32.dll
    IconIndex=-236

    The "shell32.dll,-21779" is an entry point. That particular
    one uses the column definition of a pictures folder. When File Explorer recognizes the folder content are mostly a certain type, it can
    assign a shell32 view to the materials.

    The desktop.ini is rendered invisible via an attribute. You can
    use the below-table to decide the file attribute word.

    C:\Users\username\Pictures\desktop.ini

    fsutil usn readdata C:\Users\username\Pictures\desktop.ini

    File Attributes : 0x26

    You can use the folder options to turn
    on the viewing of hidden items. In a Command Prompt a
    dir /ah can show hidden items in the current working directory,
    which is another way to view them.

    FILE_ATTRIBUTE_READONLY = 1 (0x1)
    FILE_ATTRIBUTE_HIDDEN = 2 (0x2) <=== How it is hidden FILE_ATTRIBUTE_SYSTEM = 4 (0x4) <===
    FILE_ATTRIBUTE_DIRECTORY = 16 (0x10)
    FILE_ATTRIBUTE_ARCHIVE = 32 (0x20) <=== (Archive bit)
    FILE_ATTRIBUTE_NORMAL = 128 (0x80)
    FILE_ATTRIBUTE_TEMPORARY = 256 (0x100)
    FILE_ATTRIBUTE_SPARSE_FILE = 512 (0x200)
    FILE_ATTRIBUTE_REPARSE_POINT = 1024 (0x400)
    FILE_ATTRIBUTE_COMPRESSED = 2048 (0x800)
    FILE_ATTRIBUTE_OFFLINE = 4096 (0x1000)
    FILE_ATTRIBUTE_NOT_CONTENT_INDEXED = 8192 (0x2000)
    FILE_ATTRIBUTE_ENCRYPTED = 16384 (0x4000)

    If a directory does not have a desktop.ini , that is OK as it
    implies some sort of "default view" is being used.

    Anyway, that's a quick dump of potential things affecting your view.

    I don't think I'm skilled enough to go much further than that. Some
    part of the shellbag is supposed to be storing the setting change, and
    it should be persistent after a reboot (assuming the registry is
    working properly over the reboot and so on).

    Paul

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  • From R.Wieser@address@is.invalid to alt.windows7.general on Sat Nov 15 20:40:17 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.windows7.general

    David,

    In addition to Pauls description of the shellbags mechanism, its just
    possible that your OS ran outof bags to store the folders preferences in. Which can easily happen when you have a bunch of folders.

    In my ancient XP I have, under the "HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\ShellNoRoam" registry ke, a value named "BagMRU Size" with the value 5000.

    If it doesn't fix your problem than you at least have something ("BagMRU Size") to start searching with.

    Regards,
    Rudy Wieser


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  • From JJ@jj4public@gmail.com to alt.windows7.general on Sun Nov 16 14:21:41 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.windows7.general

    On Sat, 15 Nov 2025 11:56:42 -0500, Paul wrote:

    On Sat, 11/15/2025 12:30 PM, David E. Ross wrote:
    Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 x64

    I created an additional toolbar called Applications. For a long time,
    the entries were sorted exactly the way I wanted. Earlier this week,
    however, it disappeared. When I made it visitble again, the entries
    were sorted differently, with folders at the top and other entries
    arranged alphabetically.

    I re-sorted it, and it remained okay during a session. When I rebooted,
    however, it returned to the sort with folders at the top and other
    entries alphabetically.

    How can I save my preferred sort from one session to the next?


    "What are shellbags in Windows?

    Shellbag Definition: Shellbags refers to a group of registry keys and
    key data Windows maintains to remember user viewing
    preferences in Windows Explorer and Windows Open/Save dialogs,
    things like:

    Window location/size.
    Columns to display.
    Column sorting. <===
    Icon size.
    "

    As far as I know, those are LRU (Least Recently Used),
    in that there are a finite number of storage locations
    in the registry set aside. There could be 5000 or 7000
    of them. When you visit this particular directory regularly,
    that folder should have storage priority over a folder
    you have not visited for a couple years.

    *******

    Now, don't do this yet. This is just to show some of the bits and pieces.

    https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/answers/questions/2445476/how-do-i-fix-my-view-settings-and-commands-for-fol

    A folder can have a desktop.ini . It helps if the shell32 entry point
    number exists. When a shell32 entry point is "bogus" and does not exist,
    that can be a symptom of malware. The File explorer usually has a good idea what "kind" of folder it is looking at. I had a problem on WinXP once,
    where I was repeatedly "hitting" shell32 on a non-existent entry point.

    This one is for my Pictures folder.

    [.ShellClassInfo] LocalizedResourceName=@%SystemRoot%\system32\shell32.dll,-21779 InfoTip=@%SystemRoot%\system32\shell32.dll,-12688 IconResource=%SystemRoot%\system32\imageres.dll,-113 IconFile=%SystemRoot%\system32\shell32.dll
    IconIndex=-236

    The "shell32.dll,-21779" is an entry point. That particular
    one uses the column definition of a pictures folder. When File Explorer recognizes the folder content are mostly a certain type, it can
    assign a shell32 view to the materials.

    The desktop.ini is rendered invisible via an attribute. You can
    use the below-table to decide the file attribute word.

    C:\Users\username\Pictures\desktop.ini

    fsutil usn readdata C:\Users\username\Pictures\desktop.ini

    File Attributes : 0x26

    You can use the folder options to turn
    on the viewing of hidden items. In a Command Prompt a
    dir /ah can show hidden items in the current working directory,
    which is another way to view them.

    FILE_ATTRIBUTE_READONLY = 1 (0x1)
    FILE_ATTRIBUTE_HIDDEN = 2 (0x2) <=== How it is hidden FILE_ATTRIBUTE_SYSTEM = 4 (0x4) <===
    FILE_ATTRIBUTE_DIRECTORY = 16 (0x10)
    FILE_ATTRIBUTE_ARCHIVE = 32 (0x20) <=== (Archive bit) FILE_ATTRIBUTE_NORMAL = 128 (0x80)
    FILE_ATTRIBUTE_TEMPORARY = 256 (0x100)
    FILE_ATTRIBUTE_SPARSE_FILE = 512 (0x200)
    FILE_ATTRIBUTE_REPARSE_POINT = 1024 (0x400)
    FILE_ATTRIBUTE_COMPRESSED = 2048 (0x800)
    FILE_ATTRIBUTE_OFFLINE = 4096 (0x1000)
    FILE_ATTRIBUTE_NOT_CONTENT_INDEXED = 8192 (0x2000)
    FILE_ATTRIBUTE_ENCRYPTED = 16384 (0x4000)

    If a directory does not have a desktop.ini , that is OK as it
    implies some sort of "default view" is being used.

    Anyway, that's a quick dump of potential things affecting your view.

    I don't think I'm skilled enough to go much further than that. Some
    part of the shellbag is supposed to be storing the setting change, and
    it should be persistent after a reboot (assuming the registry is
    working properly over the reboot and so on).

    Paul

    Ugh. Shell Bags problem exists since it was born (since Windows 95), and is still bugged even in latest Windows version and build.
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  • From mummycullen@mummycullen@gmail-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (MummyChunk) to alt.windows7.general on Fri Feb 27 12:35:39 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.windows7.general

    David E. Ross wrote:
    Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 x64

    I created an additional toolbar called Applications. For a long time,
    the entries were sorted exactly the way I wanted. Earlier this week, however, it disappeared. When I made it visitble again, the entries
    were sorted differently, with folders at the top and other entries
    arranged alphabetically.

    I re-sorted it, and it remained okay during a session. When I rebooted, however, it returned to the sort with folders at the top and other
    entries alphabetically.

    How can I save my preferred sort from one session to the next?

    --

    David E. Ross
    <http>

    Some Republican officials have denounced the assassination
    of Charlie Kirk as a conspiracy by liberal Democrats. Why
    then is the attempted kidnapping of the Democrat governor
    of Michigan, the shooting of a Democrat state senator of
    Minnesota, and the assassination of the Democrat speaker
    of the Minnesota state assembly not denounced as a
    conservative Republican conspiracy?



    I'm pretty sure what you're running into is just how the Windows 7 taskbar toolbars work. They aren't like a freeform list you can permanently drag into any order. They're basically a view of a folder, and Windows keeps snapping them back to its idea of a "sensible" sort, which is folders first and then alphabetical. You can sometimes drag things around and it looks right for the current session, but after a reboot it reverts because that manual ordering isn't really something it's designed to store.

    If you want the order to survive restarts, the reliable workaround is to make the names sort the way you want. Put shortcuts to everything in the folder that the Applications toolbar points at, then rename those shortcuts with a prefix so they sort in your preferred order, like 01 Chrome, 02 Mail, 03 Editor, and so on. If you don't want to see the numbers, you can use short prefixes or symbols, but numbers are the least annoying and the most predictable.

    If what you really want is a custom order that isn't tied to naming at all, then the honest answer is that the built in toolbar feature just doesn't do that consistently, and you'll have a better time with a launcher menu type tool instead of fighting the taskbar.


    This is a response to the post seen at: http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=698609402#698609402
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  • From Paul@nospam@needed.invalid to alt.windows7.general on Fri Feb 27 15:16:49 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.windows7.general

    On Fri, 2/27/2026 12:35 PM, MummyChunk wrote:
    David E. Ross wrote:
    Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 x64

    I created an additional toolbar called Applications.-a For a long time,
    the entries were sorted exactly the way I wanted.-a Earlier this week,
    however, it disappeared.-a When I made it visitble again, the entries
    were sorted differently, with folders at the top and other entries
    arranged alphabetically.

    I re-sorted it, and it remained okay during a session.-a When I rebooted,
    however, it returned to the sort with folders at the top and other
    entries alphabetically.

    How can I save my preferred sort from one session to the next?

    David E. Ross

    I'm pretty sure what you're running into is just how the Windows 7 taskbar toolbars work. They aren't like a freeform list you can permanently drag into any order. They're basically a view of a folder, and Windows keeps snapping them back to its idea of a "sensible" sort, which is folders first and then alphabetical. You can sometimes drag things around and it looks right for the current session, but after a reboot it reverts because that manual ordering isn't really something it's designed to store.

    If you want the order to survive restarts, the reliable workaround is to make the names sort the way you want. Put shortcuts to everything in the folder that the Applications toolbar points at, then rename those shortcuts with a prefix so they sort in your preferred order, like 01 Chrome, 02 Mail, 03 Editor, and so on. If you don't want to see the numbers, you can use short prefixes or symbols, but numbers are the least annoying and the most predictable.

    If what you really want is a custom order that isn't tied to naming at all, then the honest answer is that the built in toolbar feature just doesn't do that consistently, and you'll have a better time with a launcher menu type tool instead of fighting the taskbar.

    The OPs symptoms come from using the File Explorer Options dialog
    for the particular file system, clicking "Apply" then "Apply to all Folders".

    It is the "Apply to all Folders" from some attempt to apply
    "default" sort strategy, that has over-ridden whatever was
    previously stored as the option.

    The "Apply to all Folders" is perilous, and especially as
    it is also selective about the thing, and there can still be
    things like File Open dialogs that do not listen to where
    that setting is set.

    You would have to find a way to go back to whatever folder stores
    that and set the sort order to None. And does that option
    even exist ? You can set Group to None. And Group might not even
    be in Windows 7, it might have been in a later Windows.

    It would be highly beneficial if there was a maintenance
    utility that would, independently of File Explorer, allow
    correcting such settings.

    Paul
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  • From David E. Ross@nobody@nowhere.invalid to alt.windows7.general on Fri Feb 27 14:34:16 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.windows7.general

    On 11/15/2025 9:30 AM, David E. Ross wrote:
    Windows 7 Ultimate SP1 x64

    I created an additional toolbar called Applications. For a long time,
    the entries were sorted exactly the way I wanted. Earlier this week, however, it disappeared. When I made it visitble again, the entries
    were sorted differently, with folders at the top and other entries
    arranged alphabetically.

    I re-sorted it, and it remained okay during a session. When I rebooted, however, it returned to the sort with folders at the top and other
    entries alphabetically.

    How can I save my preferred sort from one session to the next?

    Three months ago, I was able to get Applications the way I wanted it.
    At my age (84), however, I do not remember what I did.

    Start is also in a folder. It too can be rearranged, not in the folder
    but in the desktop display. Thus, my problem was not merely because Applications is a folder.
    --
    David E. Ross
    <http://www.rossde.com/>
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  • From Dog Trainer@dog.trainer@gmail.com to alt.windows7.general on Fri Feb 27 23:39:20 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.windows7.general

    On 27/02/2026 22:34, David E. Ross wrote:
    At my age (84), however, I do not remember what I did.

    So, you can teach an old dog new tricks. Why do people get this so wrong?



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