Today - just about now, actually - there is a minute's silence across
the whole of Switzerland in memory of the victims of the fire in the Constellation bar in Crans-Montana. I have long wondered about why some tragic deaths merit more mourning than others, and the word 'breast-
beating' comes to mind....
Anyway, back to English usage. Interesting word, 'breast-beating' -
usefully expressive, though one doesn't hear it very often. The spelling seems unstable:
<https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=breast+beating%2Cbreast- beating%2Cbreastbeating&year_start=1800&year_end=2022&corpus=en&smoothing=3&case_insensitive=false>
(It has Chinese associations for me, since I first met 'Breastbeater' as
the nickname of a Red Guard in Ken Ling's 'Red Guard: Schoolboy to
"Little General" in Mao's China'. I have no idea whether the Chinese do
more of it than anyone else.)
On 09/01/2026 14:05, Hibou wrote:
(It has Chinese associations for me, since I first met 'Breastbeater' as
the nickname of a Red Guard in Ken Ling's 'Red Guard: Schoolboy to
"Little General" in Mao's China'. I have no idea whether the Chinese do
more of it than anyone else.)
For me, breast-beating has an Arab (or Muslim) association. I notice it
at funerals (e.g. in Palestine recently) where a lot of breast-beating
takes place, mainly by grieving women.
There is also 'chest - beating'. Although different in meaning, the two
seem to have a parallel development (in ngram English, at least).
<https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=breast-beating%2C+chest-beating&year_start=1800&year_end=2022&corpus=en&smoothing=3>
Chest-beating is, it seems, something that gorillas and certain others
do...
"The Trump administration is hunkering down around North and South
America - and then beating its chest about regional supremacy. 'American dominance in the Western Hemisphere will never be questioned,' the
president said in his initial news conference on the operation. Marco Rubio's State Department followed up this week like a football coach psyching up his players for a home game. 'This is OUR hemisphere,'..." -
NYT yesterday.
Just half the world, then? Where's your ambition, boys? (And 'never' is
a long time. Just look at history.) [...]
Le 09/01/2026 |a 15:51, occam a |-crit :
On 09/01/2026 14:05, Hibou wrote:
(It has Chinese associations for me, since I first met 'Breastbeater' as >>> the nickname of a Red Guard in Ken Ling's 'Red Guard: Schoolboy to
"Little General" in Mao's China'. I have no idea whether the Chinese do
more of it than anyone else.)
For me, breast-beating has an Arab (or Muslim) association.-a I notice it
at funerals (e.g. in Palestine recently) where a lot of breast-beating
takes place, mainly by grieving women.
There is also 'chest - beating'. Although different in meaning, the two
seem to have a parallel development (in ngram English, at least).
<https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=breast-beating%2C+chest-beating&year_start=1800&year_end=2022&corpus=en&smoothing=3>
So they do. Curious.
Chest-beating is, it seems, something that gorillas and certain others
do...
"The Trump administration is hunkering down around North and South
America - and then beating its chest about regional supremacy. 'American dominance in the Western Hemisphere will never be questioned,' the
president said in his initial news conference on the operation. Marco Rubio's State Department followed up this week like a football coach psyching up his players for a home game. 'This is OUR hemisphere,'..." -
NYT yesterday.
Just half the world, then? Where's your ambition, boys? (And 'never' is
a long time. Just look at history.)
It's Oceania without Airstrip One (I'm glad to say). EfA|"Oceania, 'tis
for thee...."EfA|
Le 09/01/2026 a 19:17, Hibou a ocrit :
Chest-beating is, it seems, something that gorillas and certain others
do...
"The Trump administration is hunkering down around North and South America >> - and then beating its chest about regional supremacy. 'American dominance >> in the Western Hemisphere will never be questioned,' the president said in >> his initial news conference on the operation. Marco Rubio's State
Department followed up this week like a football coach psyching up his
players for a home game. 'This is OUR hemisphere,'..." - NYT yesterday.
Just half the world, then? Where's your ambition, boys? (And 'never' is a >> long time. Just look at history.) [...]
Here's ambition (with no chest-beating, just a modest cough):
<https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-6558fb046df97872d26e085254df5ea2-lq>
Friday, Hibou murmurred ...
Le 09/01/2026 |a 19:17, Hibou a |-crit :
Chest-beating is, it seems, something that gorillas and certain
others do...
"The Trump administration is hunkering down around North and South
America - and then beating its chest about regional supremacy.
'American dominance in the Western Hemisphere will never be
questioned,' the president said in his initial news conference on the
operation. Marco Rubio's State Department followed up this week like
a football coach psyching up his players for a home game. 'This is
OUR hemisphere,'..." - NYT yesterday.
Just half the world, then? Where's your ambition, boys? (And 'never'
is a long time. Just look at history.) [...]
Here's ambition (with no chest-beating, just a modest cough):
<https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-
qimg-6558fb046df97872d26e085254df5ea2-lq>
An eye test?
On 09/01/2026 19:17, Hibou wrote:
Chest-beating is, it seems, something that gorillas and certain others
do...
"The Trump administration is hunkering down around North and South
America - and then beating its chest about regional supremacy.
'American dominance in the Western Hemisphere will never be
questioned,' the president said in his initial news conference on the
operation. Marco Rubio's State Department followed up this week like a
football coach psyching up his players for a home game. 'This is OUR
hemisphere,'..." - NYT yesterday.
Just half the world, then? Where's your ambition, boys? (And 'never'
is a long time. Just look at history.)
It's Oceania without Airstrip One (I'm glad to say). EfA|"Oceania, 'tis
for thee...."EfA|
Without Airstrip One... How confident are you of that?
Friday, Hibou murmurred ...
Here's ambition (with no chest-beating, just a modest cough):
<https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-
qimg-6558fb046df97872d26e085254df5ea2-lq>
An eye test?
Le 09/01/2026 |a 19:54, Phil a |-crit :
On 09/01/2026 19:17, Hibou wrote:
Chest-beating is, it seems, something that gorillas and certain
others do...
"The Trump administration is hunkering down around North and South
America - and then beating its chest about regional supremacy.
'American dominance in the Western Hemisphere will never be
questioned,' the president said in his initial news conference on the
operation. Marco Rubio's State Department followed up this week like
a football coach psyching up his players for a home game. 'This is
OUR hemisphere,'..." - NYT yesterday.
Just half the world, then? Where's your ambition, boys? (And 'never'
is a long time. Just look at history.)
It's Oceania without Airstrip One (I'm glad to say). EfA|"Oceania, 'tis >>> for thee...."EfA|
Without Airstrip One... How confident are you of that?
Not entirely. Most of Britain is in the Western Hemisphere.
I can imagine streams of refugees heading for East Anglia.--
On 2026-01-10 02:01, Hibou wrote:
Le 09/01/2026 |a 19:54, Phil a |-crit :
On 09/01/2026 19:17, Hibou wrote:
Chest-beating is, it seems, something that gorillas and certain
others do...
"The Trump administration is hunkering down around North and South
America - and then beating its chest about regional supremacy.
'American dominance in the Western Hemisphere will never be
questioned,' the president said in his initial news conference on
the operation. Marco Rubio's State Department followed up this week
like a football coach psyching up his players for a home game. 'This
is OUR hemisphere,'..." - NYT yesterday.
Just half the world, then? Where's your ambition, boys? (And 'never'
is a long time. Just look at history.)
It's Oceania without Airstrip One (I'm glad to say). EfA|"Oceania,
'tis for thee...."EfA|
Without Airstrip One... How confident are you of that?
Not entirely. Most of Britain is in the Western Hemisphere.
So is most of Denmark.
I can imagine streams of refugees heading for East Anglia.
On 2026-01-10 02:01, Hibou wrote:
[...] Most of Britain is in the Western Hemisphere.
So is most of Denmark.
Le 10/01/2026 |a 19:48, lar3ryca a |-crit :
On 2026-01-10 02:01, Hibou wrote:
[...] Most of Britain is in the Western Hemisphere.
So is most of Denmark.
Quite. If Mr Trump uses force to acquire Greenland, I shall find it hard
to distinguish between him and Mr Putin.
Quite. If Mr Trump uses force to acquire Greenland, I shall find it hard
to distinguish between him and Mr Putin.
He's not all bad. He's promised to protect the protesters in Minneapolis.
Den 11.01.2026 kl. 10.06 skrev Peter Moylan:
Quite. If Mr Trump uses force to acquire Greenland, I shall find it hard >> to distinguish between him and Mr Putin.
He's not all bad. He's promised to protect the protesters in Minneapolis.
Is that good? Isn't he just protecting and supporting trouble wherever
it appears - and stirring up some if it doesn't?
Le 10/01/2026 a 19:48, lar3ryca a ocrit :
On 2026-01-10 02:01, Hibou wrote:
[...] Most of Britain is in the Western Hemisphere.
So is most of Denmark.
Quite. If Mr Trump uses force to acquire Greenland, I shall find it hard
to distinguish between him and Mr Putin.
Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> posted:
Den 11.01.2026 kl. 10.06 skrev Peter Moylan:
Quite. If Mr Trump uses force to acquire Greenland, I shall find it hard >> to distinguish between him and Mr Putin.
He's not all bad. He's promised to protect the protesters in Minneapolis.
Is that good? Isn't he just protecting and supporting trouble wherever
it appears - and stirring up some if it doesn't?
I'm beginning to wonder if sarcasm has a place in Danish culture.
Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> posted:
Den 11.01.2026 kl. 10.06 skrev Peter Moylan:
Is that good? Isn't he just protecting and supporting trouble whereverQuite. If Mr Trump uses force to acquire Greenland, I shall find it hard >>>> to distinguish between him and Mr Putin.
He's not all bad. He's promised to protect the protesters in Minneapolis. >>
it appears - and stirring up some if it doesn't?
I'm beginning to wonder if sarcasm has a place in Danish culture.
On 2026-01-10 02:01, Hibou wrote:
Le 09/01/2026 a 19:54, Phil a ocrit :
On 09/01/2026 19:17, Hibou wrote:
Chest-beating is, it seems, something that gorillas and certain
others do...
"The Trump administration is hunkering down around North and South
America - and then beating its chest about regional supremacy.
'American dominance in the Western Hemisphere will never be
questioned,' the president said in his initial news conference on the >>> operation. Marco Rubio's State Department followed up this week like
a football coach psyching up his players for a home game. 'This is
OUR hemisphere,'..." - NYT yesterday.
Just half the world, then? Where's your ambition, boys? (And 'never'
is a long time. Just look at history.)
It's Oceania without Airstrip One (I'm glad to say). ?"Oceania, 'tis
for thee...."?
Without Airstrip One... How confident are you of that?
Not entirely. Most of Britain is in the Western Hemisphere.
So is most of Denmark.
Lucky for NZ it's on the underside of Trump's world map,
out of sight.
Hibou wrote:
Quite. If Mr Trump uses force to acquire Greenland, I shall find it hard
to distinguish between him and Mr Putin.
While under the good Queen Victoria all those natives,
all over the world, just begged to be allowed
into the great British empire.
And those Indians crawled up to her feet
while humbly asking her to accept to become their empress.
There are even rumours that a glimmer of a smile may
have been seen on her lips,
Hibou wrote:
Quite. If Mr Trump uses force to acquire Greenland, I shall find it hard
to distinguish between him and Mr Putin.
While under the good Queen Victoria all those natives,
all over the world, just begged to be allowed
into the great British empire.
And those Indians crawled up to her feet
while humbly asking her to accept to become their empress.
There are even rumours that a glimmer of a smile may
have been seen on her lips,
Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> posted:
Den 11.01.2026 kl. 10.06 skrev Peter Moylan:
Quite. If Mr Trump uses force to acquire Greenland, I shall find it hard >> to distinguish between him and Mr Putin.
He's not all bad. He's promised to protect the protesters in Minneapolis.
Is that good? Isn't he just protecting and supporting trouble wherever
it appears - and stirring up some if it doesn't?
I'm beginning to wonder if sarcasm has a place in Danish culture.
In article <10juaf2$3dfc9$1@dont-email.me>,
larry@invalid.ca says...
On 2026-01-10 02:01, Hibou wrote:
Le 09/01/2026 a 19:54, Phil a ocrit :
On 09/01/2026 19:17, Hibou wrote:
Chest-beating is, it seems, something that gorillas and certain
others do...
"The Trump administration is hunkering down around North and South
America - and then beating its chest about regional supremacy.
'American dominance in the Western Hemisphere will never be
questioned,' the president said in his initial news conference on the >>> operation. Marco Rubio's State Department followed up this week like >>> a football coach psyching up his players for a home game. 'This is
OUR hemisphere,'..." - NYT yesterday.
Just half the world, then? Where's your ambition, boys? (And 'never' >>> is a long time. Just look at history.)
It's Oceania without Airstrip One (I'm glad to say). ?"Oceania, 'tis >>> for thee...."?
Without Airstrip One... How confident are you of that?
Not entirely. Most of Britain is in the Western Hemisphere.
So is most of Denmark.
So is New Zealand.
Lucky for NZ it's on the underside of Trump's world map,--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
out of sight.
Janet
Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:
Le 10/01/2026 |a 19:48, lar3ryca a |-crit :
On 2026-01-10 02:01, Hibou wrote:
[...] Most of Britain is in the Western Hemisphere.
So is most of Denmark.
Quite. If Mr Trump uses force to acquire Greenland, I shall find it hard
to distinguish between him and Mr Putin.
While under the good Queen Victoria all those natives,
all over the world, just begged to be allowed
into the great British empire.
And those Indians crawled up to her feet
while humbly asking her to accept to become their empress.
There are even rumours that a glimmer of a smile may
have been seen on her lips,
Jan
Le 11/01/2026 |a 11:52, J. J. Lodder a |-crit :
Hibou wrote:
Quite. If Mr Trump uses force to acquire Greenland, I shall find it hard >> to distinguish between him and Mr Putin.
While under the good Queen Victoria all those natives,
all over the world, just begged to be allowed
into the great British empire.
And those Indians crawled up to her feet
while humbly asking her to accept to become their empress.
There are even rumours that a glimmer of a smile may
have been seen on her lips,
R|-ponse alternative...
I am not imperialist myself, and I think I can criticise those who are, especially if their methods are bloody. What my ancestors did, good or
bad, is neither here nor there. They weren't me, and I am not them.
nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) posted:
Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:
Le 10/01/2026 a 19:48, lar3ryca a ocrit :
On 2026-01-10 02:01, Hibou wrote:
[...] Most of Britain is in the Western Hemisphere.
So is most of Denmark.
Quite. If Mr Trump uses force to acquire Greenland, I shall find it hard to distinguish between him and Mr Putin.
While under the good Queen Victoria all those natives,
all over the world, just begged to be allowed
into the great British empire.
In some cases they really did, as for example in Basutoland (now Lesotho), where they wanted to be protected from the Afrikaners.
Den 11.01.2026 kl. 10.06 skrev Peter Moylan:
Quite. If Mr Trump uses force to acquire Greenland, I shall find it hard >>> to distinguish between him and Mr Putin.
He's not all bad. He's promised to protect the protesters in Minneapolis.
Is that good? Isn't he just protecting and supporting trouble wherever
it appears - and stirring up some if it doesn't?
Le 10/01/2026 |a 19:48, lar3ryca a |-crit :
On 2026-01-10 02:01, Hibou wrote:
[...] Most of Britain is in the Western Hemisphere.
So is most of Denmark.
Quite. If Mr Trump uses force to acquire Greenland, I shall find it hard
to distinguish between him and Mr Putin.
In article <MPG.43cdb0314bb6dc3442c@news.individual.net>,
Janet <nobody@home.com> wrote:
Lucky for NZ it's on the underside of Trump's world map,
out of sight.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omission_of_New_Zealand_from_maps
Perhaps they should stop complaining about this.
On 11/01/2026 10:11, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
Den 11.01.2026 kl. 10.06 skrev Peter Moylan:I think he's been distracted. He's swerved into threatening Cuba now.
Quite. If Mr Trump uses force to acquire Greenland, I shall find it
hard
to distinguish between him and Mr Putin.
He's not all bad. He's promised to protect the protesters in
Minneapolis.
Is that good? Isn't he just protecting and supporting trouble wherever
it appears - and stirring up some if it doesn't?
Janet <nobody@home.com> wrote:
In article <10juaf2$3dfc9$1@dont-email.me>,
larry@invalid.ca says...
On 2026-01-10 02:01, Hibou wrote:
Not entirely. Most of Britain is in the Western Hemisphere.
So is most of Denmark.
So is New Zealand.
???
From what I remember that antipodes point is well west of New Zealand,
so they should be safe, not being on Trumps hemisphere.
He'll stumble over the date line, getting there,
On 11/01/2026 13:20, Richard Tobin wrote:
In article <MPG.43cdb0314bb6dc3442c@news.individual.net>,
Janet <nobody@home.com> wrote:
Lucky for NZ it's on the underside of Trump's world map,
out of sight.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omission_of_New_Zealand_from_maps
Perhaps they should stop complaining about this.
They ought to publish their own world maps, omitting an odd continent
here or there.
On 11/01/2026 13:20, Richard Tobin wrote:
In article <MPG.43cdb0314bb6dc3442c@news.individual.net>,
Janet <nobody@home.com> wrote:
Lucky for NZ it's on the underside of Trump's world map,
out of sight.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omission_of_New_Zealand_from_maps
Perhaps they should stop complaining about this.
They ought to publish their own world maps, omitting an odd continent
here or there.
I am not imperialist myself, and I think I can criticise those who are,
especially if their methods are bloody. What my ancestors did, good or
bad, is neither here nor there. They weren't me, and I am not them.
...but you may still be benefitting from what they did
On 12/01/26 08:05, Sam Plusnet wrote:
On 11/01/2026 13:20, Richard Tobin wrote:
Janet-awrote:
Lucky for NZ it's on the underside of Trump's world map,
out of sight.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omission_of_New_Zealand_from_maps
Perhaps they should stop complaining about this.
They ought to publish their own world maps, omitting an odd continent
here or there.
World maps published in New Zealand, like those published in Australia,
have west Africa on the far left. The UK is a small insignificant region
near the edge, so it would be easy to overlook it.
Hibou wrote:
I am not imperialist myself, and I think I can criticise those who are,
especially if their methods are bloody. What my ancestors did, good or
bad, is neither here nor there. They weren't me, and I am not them.
...but you may still be benefitting from what they did ...and the successors of their victims may still be suffering because of it.
I differ in this from God (who, the 'Good Book' says, visits the
iniquity of the fathers upon their children unto the fourth generation).
Den 12.01.2026 kl. 07.32 skrev Hibou:
I differ in this from God (who, the 'Good Book' says, visits the
iniquity of the fathers upon their children unto the fourth generation).
Isn't it seventh generation?
Le 12/01/2026 |a 07:10, Bertel Lund Hansen a |-crit :
Den 12.01.2026 kl. 07.32 skrev Hibou:
I differ in this from God (who, the 'Good Book' says, visits the
iniquity of the fathers upon their children unto the fourth generation).
Isn't it seventh generation?
I did check before writing that (my recollection of the Bible is patchy
at best):
"And the LORD passed by before him [Moses], and proclaimed [...] The
LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness
and truth [...]; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children,
and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation" - Exodus 34.6-7, KJV.
I differ in this from God (who, the 'Good Book' says, visits the
iniquity of the fathers upon their children unto the fourth generation).
Isn't it seventh generation?
I did check before writing that (my recollection of the Bible is patchy
at best):
"And the LORD passed by before him [Moses], and proclaimed [...] The
LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness
and truth [...]; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children,
and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation" - Exodus 34.6-7, KJV.
Den 12.01.2026 kl. 09.09 skrev Hibou:
[...]
I differ in this from God (who, the 'Good Book' says, visits the
iniquity of the fathers upon their children unto the fourth
generation).
Isn't it seventh generation?
I did check before writing that (my recollection of the Bible is
patchy at best):
"And the LORD passed by before him [Moses], and proclaimed [...] The
LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in
goodness and truth [...]; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon
the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to
the fourth generation" - Exodus 34.6-7, KJV.
Oh well. It comes as no surprise that my mother's knowledge of the Bible
was faulty. She didn't like it (she was an atheist).
I'm an atheist, too. All the same, the KJV is powerfully written, has contributed much to our language, and interests me on that level.
Oh well. It comes as no surprise that my mother's knowledge of the
Bible was faulty. She didn't like it (she was an atheist).
I'm an atheist, too. All the same, the KJV is powerfully written, has contributed much to our language, and interests me on that level.
I'm an atheist, too. All the same, the KJV is powerfully written, has contributed much to our language, and interests me on that level.
Le 12/01/2026 a 08:27, Bertel Lund Hansen a ocrit :
Den 12.01.2026 kl. 09.09 skrev Hibou:
[...]
I differ in this from God (who, the 'Good Book' says, visits the
iniquity of the fathers upon their children unto the fourth
generation).
Isn't it seventh generation?
I did check before writing that (my recollection of the Bible is
patchy at best):
"And the LORD passed by before him [Moses], and proclaimed [...] The
LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in
goodness and truth [...]; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon
the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to
the fourth generation" - Exodus 34.6-7, KJV.
Oh well. It comes as no surprise that my mother's knowledge of the Bible was faulty. She didn't like it (she was an atheist).
I'm an atheist, too. All the same, the KJV is powerfully written, has contributed much to our language, and interests me on that level.
On 12/01/26 07:59, Sam Plusnet wrote:
On 11/01/2026 10:11, Bertel Lund Hansen wrote:
Den 11.01.2026 kl. 10.06 skrev Peter Moylan:I think he's been distracted. He's swerved into threatening Cuba now.
Quite. If Mr Trump uses force to acquire Greenland, I shall find it
hard
to distinguish between him and Mr Putin.
He's not all bad. He's promised to protect the protesters in
Minneapolis.
Is that good? Isn't he just protecting and supporting trouble wherever
it appears - and stirring up some if it doesn't?
Ooh, shiny.
Den 11.01.2026 kl. 10.06 skrev Peter Moylan:
Quite. If Mr Trump uses force to acquire Greenland, I shall find it hard >>> to distinguish between him and Mr Putin.
He's not all bad. He's promised to protect the protesters in Minneapolis.
Is that good? Isn't he just protecting and supporting trouble wherever
it appears - and stirring up some if it doesn't?
Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:
Le 10/01/2026 |a 19:48, lar3ryca a |-crit :
On 2026-01-10 02:01, Hibou wrote:
[...] Most of Britain is in the Western Hemisphere.
So is most of Denmark.
Quite. If Mr Trump uses force to acquire Greenland, I shall find it hard
to distinguish between him and Mr Putin.
While under the good Queen Victoria all those natives,
all over the world, just begged to be allowed
into the great British empire.
And those Indians crawled up to her feet
while humbly asking her to accept to become their empress.
Le 12/01/2026 |a 08:09, Hibou a |-crit :
Le 12/01/2026 |a 07:10, Bertel Lund Hansen a |-crit :
Den 12.01.2026 kl. 07.32 skrev Hibou:
Isn't it seventh generation?
I differ in this from God (who, the 'Good Book' says, visits the
iniquity of the fathers upon their children unto the fourth generation). >>>
I did check before writing that (my recollection of the Bible is patchy
at best):
"And the LORD passed by before him [Moses], and proclaimed [...] The
LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness
and truth [...]; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children,
and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth
generation" - Exodus 34.6-7, KJV.
<athel.cb@gmail.com> wrote:
nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J. Lodder) posted:
Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:
Le 10/01/2026 |a 19:48, lar3ryca a |-crit :
On 2026-01-10 02:01, Hibou wrote:
[...] Most of Britain is in the Western Hemisphere.
So is most of Denmark.
Quite. If Mr Trump uses force to acquire Greenland, I shall find it hard >> > > to distinguish between him and Mr Putin.
While under the good Queen Victoria all those natives,
all over the world, just begged to be allowed
into the great British empire.
In some cases they really did, as for example in Basutoland (now Lesotho), >> where they wanted to be protected from the Afrikaners.
Would it really surprise you to learn that different langage versions
of Wikipedia pages about it have different views on what happened?
Summary: They exchanged fighting against the Boers
for becoming a British protectorate,
which mutated almost immediately
into direct British rule from Cape Town,
without them having much to say in their own matters.
Armed revolt against British rule followed.
On 11/01/2026 06:56, Hibou wrote:
Le 10/01/2026 |a 19:48, lar3ryca a |-crit :Putin's the smart one - or so we used to think.
On 2026-01-10 02:01, Hibou wrote:
[...] Most of Britain is in the Western Hemisphere.
So is most of Denmark.
Quite. If Mr Trump uses force to acquire Greenland, I shall find it hard
to distinguish between him and Mr Putin.
He's not all bad. He's promised to protect the protesters in Minneapolis. >>Is that good? Isn't he just protecting and supporting trouble wherever
it appears - and stirring up some if it doesn't?
He's certainly been promising to protect the protesters in Iran,
though how his missiles will distinguish between them and those they
are protesting against he doesn't tell us.
I believe it was a Canadian diplomat who said, immediately after his
invasion of Ukraine, "I used to think you were a master chess player,
but now you're simply throwing dice."
The difference, however, is that Trump's invasions, or threatened
invasions, have been unprovoked.
Putin's invasion of Ukraine may have been unjustified, but it wasn't unprovoked.
On Mon, 12 Jan 2026 08:45:52 +0000
Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:
Le 12/01/2026 a 08:27, Bertel Lund Hansen a ocrit :
Den 12.01.2026 kl. 09.09 skrev Hibou:
[...]
I differ in this from God (who, the 'Good Book' says, visits the
iniquity of the fathers upon their children unto the fourth
generation).
Isn't it seventh generation?
I did check before writing that (my recollection of the Bible is
patchy at best):
"And the LORD passed by before him [Moses], and proclaimed [...] The
LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in
goodness and truth [...]; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon
the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to
the fourth generation" - Exodus 34.6-7, KJV.
Oh well. It comes as no surprise that my mother's knowledge of the Bible was faulty. She didn't like it (she was an atheist).
I'm an atheist, too. All the same, the KJV is powerfully written, has contributed much to our language, and interests me on that level.
I humbly? submit that a lot of atheists have better knowledge of the
bible than many who are nominally christians.
(especially geologists - 6 day universes are so last year)
On Sun, 11 Jan 2026 11:11:32 +0100, Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> wrote:
Den 11.01.2026 kl. 10.06 skrev Peter Moylan:
Is that good? Isn't he just protecting and supporting trouble whereverQuite. If Mr Trump uses force to acquire Greenland, I shall find it hard >>>> to distinguish between him and Mr Putin.
He's not all bad. He's promised to protect the protesters in Minneapolis. >>
it appears - and stirring up some if it doesn't?
He's certainly been promising to protect the protesters in Iran,
though how his missiles will distinguish between them and those they
are protesting against he doesn't tell us.
On Mon, 12 Jan 2026 08:10:45 +0000, Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:
Le 12/01/2026 |a 08:09, Hibou a |-crit :
Le 12/01/2026 |a 07:10, Bertel Lund Hansen a |-crit :
Den 12.01.2026 kl. 07.32 skrev Hibou:
Isn't it seventh generation?
I differ in this from God (who, the 'Good Book' says, visits the
iniquity of the fathers upon their children unto the fourth generation). >>>>
I did check before writing that (my recollection of the Bible is patchy
at best):
"And the LORD passed by before him [Moses], and proclaimed [...] The
LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness >>> and truth [...]; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, >>> and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth
generation" - Exodus 34.6-7, KJV.
The fathers have eaten sour grapes and the children's teeth are set on
edge.
The fathers dug the mines, and the children live with sinkholes and
poisoned rivers, even unto the third and fourth generation.
Kerr-Mudd, John <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote:
On Mon, 12 Jan 2026 08:45:52 +0000
Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:
Le 12/01/2026 |a 08:27, Bertel Lund Hansen a |-crit :I humbly? submit that a lot of atheists have better knowledge of the
Den 12.01.2026 kl. 09.09 skrev Hibou:
[...]
I differ in this from God (who, the 'Good Book' says, visits the >>>>>>> iniquity of the fathers upon their children unto the fourth
generation).
Isn't it seventh generation?
I did check before writing that (my recollection of the Bible is
patchy at best):
"And the LORD passed by before him [Moses], and proclaimed [...] The >>>>> LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in
goodness and truth [...]; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon
the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to >>>>> the fourth generation" - Exodus 34.6-7, KJV.
Oh well. It comes as no surprise that my mother's knowledge of the Bible >>>> was faulty. She didn't like it (she was an atheist).
I'm an atheist, too. All the same, the KJV is powerfully written, has
contributed much to our language, and interests me on that level.
bible than many who are nominally christians.
(especially geologists - 6 day universes are so last year)
Indeed. It was put to the test several times in the Netherlands
when a christian news channel decided to organise a bible quiz.
(I remember having said this here on an earlier occasion)
The contestants were divided into groups on basis of their own
declarations of belief.
(like roman catholics, orthodox protestants, other protestants,
and of course atheist)
Not to difficult factual questions, like how how many days did Noah
float, who said something about throwing the first stone, etc.)
The orthodox protestants (who still do bible reading)
and the atheists scored best.
The roman catholics did worse, and the ladies of a hallelujah chorus
were almost completely clueless, beyond 'Josua fit the battle '
It ran for several seasons, and the results were reproducible,
Den 12.01.2026 kl. 14.34 skrev Steve Hayes:
He's not all bad. He's promised to protect the protesters in Minneapolis. >>Is that good? Isn't he just protecting and supporting trouble wherever
it appears - and stirring up some if it doesn't?
He's certainly been promising to protect the protesters in Iran,
though how his missiles will distinguish between them and those they
are protesting against he doesn't tell us.
Couldn't he choose the Venezuelan model?
* Hibou <msjqm0F9rd9U3@mid.individual.net> :
Wrote on Mon, 12 Jan 2026 08:45:52 +0000:
I'm an atheist, too. All the same, the KJV is powerfully written, has
contributed much to our language, and interests me on that level.
there's this take on that here (tyndale rather than the authors of the
kjv)
https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/the-reformation-of-english
(by way of Ranjit, "Tyndale the father of Modern English?", Date:
"Fri, 5 Nov 2021 21:08:24 -0700 (PDT)" Message-Id:
<7b9ac986-c712-48c7-a027-7b413dce170bn@googlegroups.com>)
as for upto the "third and fourth generation", God issued an update to
those who held to this flawed exegesis, even those in exile in Babylon, through Ezekiel 18. check out the NIV gender neutered translation:
"The one who sins is the one who will die. The child will not
share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the
guilt of the child. The righteousness of the righteous will be
credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be
charged against them." (Ezekiel. 18:20, NIV 2021)
If you only have a vague notion of what is in the bible, why would you compete in order to to put that ignorance on display before an audience
of (I have no idea what the viewer/listener figures would be for such a
news channel)?
On 12/01/2026 13:46, Steve Hayes wrote:
On Mon, 12 Jan 2026 08:10:45 +0000, Hibou
<vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:
Le 12/01/2026 |a 08:09, Hibou a |-crit :
Le 12/01/2026 |a 07:10, Bertel Lund Hansen a |-crit :
Den 12.01.2026 kl. 07.32 skrev Hibou:
Isn't it seventh generation?
I differ in this from God (who, the 'Good Book' says, visits the
iniquity of the fathers upon their children unto the fourth generation). >>>>>
I did check before writing that (my recollection of the Bible is patchy >>>> at best):
"And the LORD passed by before him [Moses], and proclaimed [...] The
LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness >>>> and truth [...]; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, >>>> and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth
generation" - Exodus 34.6-7, KJV.
The fathers have eaten sour grapes and the children's teeth are set on
edge.
The fathers dug the mines, and the children live with sinkholes and
poisoned rivers, even unto the third and fourth generation.
To be fair, the rivers here in South Wales have been cleaned up (a bit)
in recent decades.
P.S. Only part of this house is below ground level.
P.P.S. Yes my father did dig _in_ the mines, but my Great Grandfather
was one of those who _dug_ the mine in the first place.
Den 12.01.2026 kl. 15.01 skrev Steve Hayes:
I believe it was a Canadian diplomat who said, immediately after his
invasion of Ukraine, "I used to think you were a master chess player,
but now you're simply throwing dice."
The difference, however, is that Trump's invasions, or threatened
invasions, have been unprovoked.
Putin's invasion of Ukraine may have been unjustified, but it wasn't
unprovoked.
How was he provoked before he took Crimea?
Oh, I get it. It was the existance of Ukraine that provoked him.
P.P.S. Yes my father did dig _in_ the mines, but my Great Grandfather
was one of those who _dug_ the mine in the first place.
But I recall that something unpleasant happened in Aberfan around
1967.
Hibou wrote:
"And the LORD passed by before him [Moses], and proclaimed [...] The
LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness >>> and truth [...]; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, >>> and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth
generation" - Exodus 34.6-7, KJV.
The fathers have eaten sour grapes and the children's teeth are set on
edge.
The fathers dug the mines, and the children live with sinkholes and
poisoned rivers, even unto the third and fourth generation.
Hibou wrote on Mon, 12 Jan 2026 08:45:52 +0000:
I'm an atheist, too. All the same, the KJV is powerfully written, has
contributed much to our language, and interests me on that level.
there's this take on that here (tyndale rather than the authors of the
kjv)
https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/the-reformation-of-english
(by way of Ranjit, "Tyndale the father of Modern English?", Date:
"Fri, 5 Nov 2021 21:08:24 -0700 (PDT)" Message-Id:
<7b9ac986-c712-48c7-a027-7b413dce170bn@googlegroups.com>)
as for upto the "third and fourth generation", God issued an update to
those who held to this flawed exegesis, even those in exile in Babylon, through Ezekiel 18. check out the NIV gender neutered translation:
"The one who sins is the one who will die. The child will not
share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the
guilt of the child. The righteousness of the righteous will be
credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be
charged against them." (Ezekiel. 18:20, NIV 2021)
How was he provoked before he took Crimea?
Oh, I get it. It was the existance of Ukraine that provoked him.
The eastward expansion of Nato, the coup against Yanukovich and the
resulting attacks by extreme nationalists of the west on people in
eastern Ukraine might possibly have had something to do with it.
There could also have been an element of tit for tat -- Nato detached
Kosovo from Serbia, so he would detach Crimea from Ukraine, for very
similar reasons, only with a lot less bloodshed.
P.P.S. Yes my father did dig _in_ the mines, but my Great Grandfather
was one of those who _dug_ the mine in the first place.
But I recall that something unpleasant happened in Aberfan around
1967.
"The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the
iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of
the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him" - <https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezekiel%2018&version=KJV>
It would seem that God, far from being immutable, is as changeable as
the men who make Him in their image - and has now - God help us! -
become woke.
On 12/01/2026 15:18, J. J. Lodder wrote:
Kerr-Mudd, John <admin@127.0.0.1> wrote:
On Mon, 12 Jan 2026 08:45:52 +0000
Hibou <vpaereru-unmonitored@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:
Le 12/01/2026 a 08:27, Bertel Lund Hansen a ocrit :I humbly? submit that a lot of atheists have better knowledge of the
Den 12.01.2026 kl. 09.09 skrev Hibou:
[...]
I differ in this from God (who, the 'Good Book' says, visits the >>>>>>> iniquity of the fathers upon their children unto the fourth
generation).
Isn't it seventh generation?
I did check before writing that (my recollection of the Bible is
patchy at best):
"And the LORD passed by before him [Moses], and proclaimed [...] The >>>>> LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in
goodness and truth [...]; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon >>>>> the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to >>>>> the fourth generation" - Exodus 34.6-7, KJV.
Oh well. It comes as no surprise that my mother's knowledge of the Bible >>>> was faulty. She didn't like it (she was an atheist).
I'm an atheist, too. All the same, the KJV is powerfully written, has
contributed much to our language, and interests me on that level.
bible than many who are nominally christians.
(especially geologists - 6 day universes are so last year)
Indeed. It was put to the test several times in the Netherlands
when a christian news channel decided to organise a bible quiz.
(I remember having said this here on an earlier occasion)
The contestants were divided into groups on basis of their own
declarations of belief.
(like roman catholics, orthodox protestants, other protestants,
and of course atheist)
Not to difficult factual questions, like how how many days did Noah
float, who said something about throwing the first stone, etc.)
The orthodox protestants (who still do bible reading)
and the atheists scored best.
The roman catholics did worse, and the ladies of a hallelujah chorus
were almost completely clueless, beyond 'Josua fit the battle '
It ran for several seasons, and the results were reproducible,
If you only have a vague notion of what is in the bible, why would you compete in order to to put that ignorance on display before an audience
of (I have no idea what the viewer/listener figures would be for such a
news channel)?
On Mon, 12 Jan 2026 15:13:29 +0100, Bertel Lund Hansen <rundtosset@lundhansen.dk> wrote:
Den 12.01.2026 kl. 15.01 skrev Steve Hayes:
I believe it was a Canadian diplomat who said, immediately after his
invasion of Ukraine, "I used to think you were a master chess player,
but now you're simply throwing dice."
The difference, however, is that Trump's invasions, or threatened
invasions, have been unprovoked.
Putin's invasion of Ukraine may have been unjustified, but it wasn't
unprovoked.
How was he provoked before he took Crimea?
Oh, I get it. It was the existance of Ukraine that provoked him.
The eastward expansion of Nato, the coup against Yanukovich and the
resulting attacks by extreme nationalists of the west on people in
eastern Ukraine might possibly have had something to do with it.
There could also have been an element of tit for tat -- Nato detached
Kosovo from Serbia, so he would detach Crimea from Ukraine, for very
similar reasons, only with a lot less bloodshed.
On 13/01/26 17:00, Hibou wrote:
"The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the
iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of
the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him" - <https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezekiel%2018&version=KJV>
It would seem that God, far from being immutable, is as changeable as
the men who make Him in their image - and has now - God help us! -
become woke.
It doesn't take much sampling of the Bible to discover that the God of
the Bible changed personality over time. He was a real bastard in the
early days, but gradually seems to have developed a sense of morality.
I'm inclined to the theory that the Bible describes more than one god,
with the original god going mythical after a while, or whatever it is
that ex-gods do.
It doesn't take much sampling of the Bible to discover that the God of
the Bible changed personality over time. He was a real bastard in the
early days, but gradually seems to have developed a sense of morality.
I'm inclined to the theory that the Bible describes more than one god,
with the original god going mythical after a while, or whatever it is
that ex-gods do.
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