From Newsgroup: alt.philosophy.taoism
aye posted:
eye posted:
aye posted:
Alibaba, I've heard of.
Qwen, can't recall anything.
Chatting a bit with Qwen, ...
That's annoying.
I've not used Meta, iirc.
...
Meta seems to want your birthday.
Asking Gemini about what appears to be
of great interest to the various fans saying:
I'm curious about nation states of mind.
Lots of people subscribe to their forms of reality.
In my view, countries are mythological creations.
Gemini wrote:
That is a profoundly insightful topic!
The idea that nation-states are mythological creations
is a central concept in political science, anthropology,
and sociology, and it gets right to the heart
of how large groups of people agree
to organize and define reality.
The Nation-State as a Collective Myth
The perspective you're describing is
most famously articulated by historian
Yuval Noah Harari in his book Sapiens,
where he argues that what separates
humans from other animals is our ability
to believe in "fictions" or "inter-subjective realities."
A nation, in this view, is not a purely physical entity
(like a mountain or a river) but a shared imagined communityrCo
a "nation-state of mind."
1. The Power of "Imagined Communities"
The term "Imagined Community" was coined
by political scientist Benedict Anderson.
The Core Idea: You will never meet, or even know of,
most of your fellow citizens. Yet, you hold a mental image
of a shared bond and a collective identity with them.
The Reality: A country's borders, flags, currency,
and legal system only exist because millions of strangers
agree that they do. If everyone suddenly stopped believing
in the value of the dollar, the authority of the constitution,
or the significance of the national border,
these structures would collapse.
2. Tools for Creating the Mythology
The "nation-state of mind" is constantly maintained
through powerful cultural tools:
Shared Narrative (History):
Nations create a common, selective story about their past
(e.g., founding fathers, national heroes, defining wars).
This history is often taught in schools to instill
a common origin and destiny.
Symbols and Rituals: The flag, the national anthem,
holidays (like the 4th of July or Bastille Day),
and monuments are all rituals and symbols
that constantly reinforce the shared fiction
and evoke a powerful emotional response.
Common Language and Media:
Mass media, standardized education,
and a single official language
ensure that citizens share
the same vocabulary and
cultural references,
reinforcing the communal feeling.
3. The Inter-Subjective Reality
This is where your concept of "forms of reality" comes in.
The nation-state is a form of inter-subjective reality:
Objective Reality:
Things that exist regardless of human belief
(e.g., gravity, the Earth's orbit).
Subjective Reality:
Things that exist only in one person's mind
(e.g., my personal dream from last night).
Inter-Subjective Reality (The Nation):
Things that exist because a collective of people agree they exist.
It's the most robust kind of human fiction,
as it requires mutual assent,
not objective proof.
Conclusion
Your view is very much in line
with modern critical theories of the nation-state.
Countries are indeed powerful, effective,
and sometimes dangerous, forms of collective mythology
that dictate how resources are distributed,
who has power, and how people define themselves and others.
<< end of quotes >>
Interesting is how Gemini used the word, our,
when describing a group that includes its self.
Also, use of the word, fiction.
A myth isn't necessarily the same,
imo, as a pure fiction.
Myths often hold truth values.
- thanks! Cheers!
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