From Newsgroup: alt.paranormal

On 11/1/25 21:05, JTEM wrote:

On 11/1/25 3:40 PM, x wrote:

Perhaps in a future age when time travel was possible
then also perhaps somewhat earlier something like
'mind uploading' could be developed.-a In essence,
the configurations of connections between the neurons
could be copied, and when a computer simulation is
run based upon the copy then, that mind could do
something again in a simulated world as if the 'brain'
were still alive and the 'body' were still alive after
the death of that organism in space-time.

Why?-a How?

If I could upload your brain:-a Your memories, your
thoughts, your personality, all that is you -- why
would it think your body still exists?

Uploading a brain would be worse than hell. A copy of
you -- conscious, yes, but not actually a person --
would exists inside a computer, and would know
nothing but that computer.

How could you assume that it could even take control
of output devices and communicate? Or input devices for
that matter?

Google:-a Phantom pain

At best, that would be the world of your uploaded
duplicate.

This would
be both 'mind uploading' and 'time travel' as possible
and real and provable.

I don't see it.

It would be torture. Sure, it would be hideous torture,
subjecting a mind to that, but it's not time travel.

-a Could it be mass produced for
millions or billions of humans upon death in some future
age?

Oh, I get it:-a And you extort everyone!-a "Pay us or we'll
upload your consciousness to this hell."

Then again, maybe not.-a Perhaps all persons go to a fate
far worse than hell

New Jersey?

Did you ever watch the show "Upload?"

I told the roomie:-a "If this ever becomes possible, DO!
NOT!

Yea there is that poem attributed to Lucretius (about how
humans create hells for themselves in this world).

I remember reading several decades ago some articles about
how 'fuzzy logic' and 'neural networks' can process information
(parallel architecture and overcoming the 'Von Neumann bottleneck').

I am OK with the idea that could be correct. I surfed few a few
summaries of some of the shows that you mentioned (fiction generally
meaning not true for entertainment). Maybe I might watch a few later
on if I find them somewhere.

I came across someone using the word 'Transhumanism' as a sectarian
thing a little while ago so I am thinking there may be an option
for a non-existent method. (That sort of already exists.)

Is something like 'life insurance' a bad idea? Who really knows.


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From Newsgroup: alt.paranormal

On 11/4/25 5:18 AM, x wrote:

Is something like 'life insurance' a bad idea?-a Who really knows.

I don't see it as life insurance.

Even if it was an exact duplicate of your mind, inside of a computer,
starting the moment it was copied it would follow a unique existence.
A year later, assuming the computer copy had yet to go completely
insane from the ordeal, it would no nothing but life inside of a
computer. It's perspective would be alien to you.

Food would be important to the real you. Air conditioning in the
heat, a warm fire in the cold of winter... sex?

A comfortable bed?

Even the relief of taking a piss!

None of these would exist for the copy of you. Life, what it means,
what is important would be all different.
--
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From Newsgroup: alt.paranormal

On 11/4/25 11:58, JTEM wrote:

On 11/4/25 5:18 AM, x wrote:

Is something like 'life insurance' a bad idea?-a Who really knows.

I don't see it as life insurance.

Even if it was an exact duplicate of your mind, inside of a computer, starting the moment it was copied it would follow a unique existence.
A year later, assuming the computer copy had yet to go completely
insane from the ordeal, it would no nothing but life inside of a
computer. It's perspective would be alien to you.

Food would be important to the real you. Air conditioning in the
heat, a warm fire in the cold of winter... sex?

A comfortable bed?

Even the relief of taking a piss!

All of these are sensations, which are the byproduct of
sensory nerves coming in from the eyes, ears, body, nose,
and tongue.

There is of course the standard question in philosophy,
how do you know you have not already been uploaded?
(The answer is that you do not know.)

Then of course there is the question - is there any
'you' when your body and brain have been eaten by
maggots (or you have been cremated).

Considering the fine resolution (high frequency)
microscopic level of reading required to do a copy,
I am not sure you could realistically do a copy
without destroying the original tissue.

How quickly after death could this be done? There
is something called 'embalming' and I have also
heard some statements about a 'soup of cell fragments'
perhaps setting in hours? Days? I do not know.
There is also the possibility of testing on animals.
No way if someone is actually alive. If the physical
remnants of your body is rotting and being eaten
by maggots however it seems to me it could be something
like 'life insurance' (which often pays for tombstones
and grave sites anyway).

None of these would exist for the copy of you. Life, what it means,
what is important would be all different.

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From Newsgroup: alt.paranormal

On 11/4/25 6:38 PM, x wrote:

All of these are sensations, which are the byproduct of
sensory nerves coming in from the eyes, ears, body, nose,
and tongue.

Computers don't have sensory nerves.

A lot -- most/all -- of these "Upload" talk is based on the
myth that your mind would even be capable of interfacing
with a computer.

There is of course the standard question in philosophy,
how do you know you have not already been uploaded?
(The answer is that you do not know.)

The two biggest problems are that the human brain is
electro-chemical, not just electrical impulses, as well as
the fact that you can't upload a city. Or a continent.

And how would your uploaded consciousness even interact with
the uploaded world?

Then of course there is the question - is there any
'you' when your body and brain have been eaten by
maggots (or you have been cremated).

Not in any sense we understand.

Consciousness has no name. No face. It experiences.

Considering the fine resolution (high frequency)
microscopic level of reading required to do a copy,
I am not sure you could realistically do a copy
without destroying the original tissue.

The problem is that you'd have to upload the entire body, not
just the mind.
--
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From Newsgroup: alt.paranormal

On 11/4/25 17:12, JTEM wrote:

On 11/4/25 6:38 PM, x wrote:

All of these are sensations, which are the byproduct of
sensory nerves coming in from the eyes, ears, body, nose,
and tongue.

Computers don't have sensory nerves.

There you are playing with the word 'nerve'
rather than 'wire', but computers have an
array of input devices. I am using one now
called a 'keyboard' that I am typing various
buttons called 'keys. I also have an optical
mouse. I will use that when I click on a portion
of the screen often called a 'command button'.

Both the mouse and the keyboard are typical
input devices.

A lot -- most/all -- of these "Upload" talk is based on the
myth that your mind would even be capable of interfacing
with a computer.

Well there is something called 'minds' and there is
something called 'brains'. I tend to think of 'minds'
as something like 'software' and 'brains' as something
like 'hardware'. But the brain does send output to
something called 'motor nerves' that often interface
with something called 'muscles'.

My 'brain' is sending output to muscles in my forearm
and hand. This causes various muscle fibers to contract
in my forearm and that causes movement in my fingers.
I think this is a reasonably effective way of outputting
from the nerve aggregate of my 'brain' to input into
the computer.

Now in theory there could be ways of coming up with a
way of picking up direct firings of nerve patterns in
the brain, but that could lead to the possibility of
brain infection from the implanted electrodes. Either
way, there is the question, how do you know you have
a 'soul'? How do you know you have a 'mind'? I admit
that I may have neither a 'mind' or a 'soul. But again,
I am thinking that no one can really know whether they
have either a 'mind' or a 'soul' if one gets too unclear
in the meaning of these terms. You can say backwards
and forwards again and again that you have both a 'mind'
and a 'soul' but if the terms are actually unclear you
are effectively saying and insisting that you have a
(gibberish).

If you are insisting that you have a (gibberish) then
you can have as much of a (gibberish) as you want to
have. Go for the gusto. Have all of the (gibberish).

...

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From Newsgroup: alt.paranormal

x wrote:

There you are playing with the word 'nerve'
rather than 'wire', but computers have an
array of input devices.

And your brain can't connect to any of them, and wouldn't
know how.

Our brains don't reboot in Linux just because our bodies
are gone. If you could upload a mind, that's the smaller
half of the problem. Figuring out a way to construct an
environment while allowing the mind to interact with it
would be, by far, the more difficult task.

You'd have to "Upload" the entire human body, map every
last nerve ending so you know where to stimulate this
simulated brain.

AND, you can't just send an electron at it and expect
results.
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From Newsgroup: alt.paranormal

On 11/4/25 20:48, JTEM wrote:

-ax wrote:

There you are playing with the word 'nerve'
rather than 'wire', but computers have an
array of input devices.

And your brain can't connect to any of them, and wouldn't
know how.

Yup psychology is a religion that caters to atheists.

Typical response to 'minds might be different from
brains'.

Total ignoring of the statement. Then of course,
'you think that humans have no brains, how stooopid'.

...

You'd have to "Upload" the entire human body, map every
last nerve ending so you know where to stimulate this
simulated brain.

I am thinking that simulating output to muscles and
input to a retina would probably be less difficult
than differentiating astrocytes and other glial cells
from more coding neurons, as well as determining the
receptors for each cell (is a synapse exciting or
inhibitory), but there would of course be an array
of problems.

...

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From Newsgroup: alt.paranormal

On 11/5/25 11:54 AM, x wrote:

Yup psychology is a religion that caters to atheists.

Typical response to 'minds might be different from
brains'.

A brain is physical. You can see a brain. You can even touch
one, remove it from a body & examine it... study it. "The
Mind" is a reference to your thoughts, conscious and subconscious.

You can think of it as the difference between a TV and the shows
that you watch on it.

You can upload a show easy enough, but you can't watch it. You
need that physical screen.
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From Newsgroup: alt.paranormal

On 11/5/25 12:38, JTEM wrote:

On 11/5/25 11:54 AM, x wrote:

Yup psychology is a religion that caters to atheists.

Typical response to 'minds might be different from
brains'.

A brain is physical. You can see a brain. You can even touch
one, remove it from a body & examine it... study it. "The
Mind" is a reference to your thoughts, conscious and subconscious.

You can think of it as the difference between a TV and the shows
that you watch on it.

You can upload a show easy enough, but you can't watch it. You
need that physical screen.

Yea there are different levels of abstraction. Something notable
might be the context in which a statement is made. Notice your
last two sentences and how easily they could be converted from
something somewhat true to something more false. Point to a
specific physical screen and say it. (The meaning could shift to -
maybe that screen might not be working but it might be possible if
you try another screen over there.)
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From Newsgroup: alt.paranormal

On 11/6/25 1:11 PM, x wrote:

Yea there are different levels of abstraction.-a Something notable
might be the context in which a statement is made.-a Notice your
last two sentences and how easily

You seem to be very emotionally invested in a particular answer.

I think it VERY likely that science will be able to immerse
people within a virtual reality. That, the senses could be
manipulated to such an extant that a person can be made to
believe they exist in ANY environment that the scientist
wish.

Next up in probability would be uploading the information
locked within the human brain. Meaning, retrieving all the
thoughts & memories from a brain and storing them to a
computer.

The least probable achievement would be uploading human
consciousness. If we start speaking of constructing virtual
worlds for it to live within, doubly improbable.
--
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From Newsgroup: alt.paranormal

On 11/6/25 12:52, JTEM wrote:

On 11/6/25 1:11 PM, x wrote:

Yea there are different levels of abstraction.-a Something notable
might be the context in which a statement is made.-a Notice your
last two sentences and how easily

You seem to be very emotionally invested in a particular answer.

Yes you are a chatterbox that likes to spit venom with
every response. My guess is that you have been trained
to be this way from birth. Some people are like that.

I think I will no longer privilege you with my knowledge.

You do not deserve it.


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