Given the complexity of new cars, I won't own one out of warranty
On Tue, 10 Feb 2026 13:20:42 -0500
Ed P <esp@snet.n> wrote:
Given the complexity of new cars, I won't own one out of warranty
+1
...and it's getting worse year by year:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cr0R2FkNKRk
Genesis G70...
On 2/10/2026 12:27 PM, Mars Sellus wrote:
On Tue, 10 Feb 2026 13:20:42 -0500
Ed P <esp@snet.n> wrote:
Given the complexity of new cars, I won't own one out of warranty
+1
...and it's getting worse year by year:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cr0R2FkNKRk
Genesis G70...
The newest motor vehicle we own is over 17 years old ... and I
have the tools to work on all of them .
On Tue, 10 Feb 2026 14:26:30 -0600
Snag <snag_one@msn.com> wrote:
On 2/10/2026 12:27 PM, Mars Sellus wrote:
On Tue, 10 Feb 2026 13:20:42 -0500
Ed P <esp@snet.n> wrote:
Given the complexity of new cars, I won't own one out of warranty
+1
...and it's getting worse year by year:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cr0R2FkNKRk
Genesis G70...
The newest motor vehicle we own is over 17 years old ... and I
have the tools to work on all of them .
You are going to be A-ok when the s**t hits the fan.
Your garden is survival heaven.
On 2/10/2026 2:33 PM, Mars Sellus wrote:
On Tue, 10 Feb 2026 14:26:30 -0600
Snag <snag_one@msn.com> wrote:
On 2/10/2026 12:27 PM, Mars Sellus wrote:
On Tue, 10 Feb 2026 13:20:42 -0500
Ed P <esp@snet.n> wrote:
Given the complexity of new cars, I won't own one out of
warranty
+1
...and it's getting worse year by year:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cr0R2FkNKRk
Genesis G70...
The newest motor vehicle we own is over 17 years old ... and I
have the tools to work on all of them .
You are going to be A-ok when the s**t hits the fan.
Your garden is survival heaven.
I still need to source a mid 60's points distributor* and a generator/mechanical voltage reg for the '86 GMC 305 V8 .
*Though considering the prices and availability I may go with a
Mallory dual-point ignition . Probably a better choice considering
the motor's been built stage 3 .
On Tue, 10 Feb 2026 15:24:49 -0600
Snag <snag_one@msn.com> wrote:
On 2/10/2026 2:33 PM, Mars Sellus wrote:
On Tue, 10 Feb 2026 14:26:30 -0600
Snag <snag_one@msn.com> wrote:
On 2/10/2026 12:27 PM, Mars Sellus wrote:
On Tue, 10 Feb 2026 13:20:42 -0500
Ed P <esp@snet.n> wrote:
Given the complexity of new cars, I won't own one out of
warranty
+1
...and it's getting worse year by year:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cr0R2FkNKRk
Genesis G70...
The newest motor vehicle we own is over 17 years old ... and I
have the tools to work on all of them .
You are going to be A-ok when the s**t hits the fan.
Your garden is survival heaven.
I still need to source a mid 60's points distributor* and a
generator/mechanical voltage reg for the '86 GMC 305 V8 .
*Though considering the prices and availability I may go with a
Mallory dual-point ignition . Probably a better choice considering
the motor's been built stage 3 .
Far better.
A Holly Sniper EFI unit is one step on from that.
On 2/10/2026 4:11 PM, Mars Sellus wrote:
On Tue, 10 Feb 2026 15:24:49 -0600
Snag <snag_one@msn.com> wrote:
On 2/10/2026 2:33 PM, Mars Sellus wrote:
On Tue, 10 Feb 2026 14:26:30 -0600
Snag <snag_one@msn.com> wrote:
On 2/10/2026 12:27 PM, Mars Sellus wrote:
On Tue, 10 Feb 2026 13:20:42 -0500
Ed P <esp@snet.n> wrote:
Given the complexity of new cars, I won't own one out of
warranty
+1
...and it's getting worse year by year:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cr0R2FkNKRk
Genesis G70...
The newest motor vehicle we own is over 17 years old ...
and I have the tools to work on all of them .
You are going to be A-ok when the s**t hits the fan.
Your garden is survival heaven.
I still need to source a mid 60's points distributor* and a
generator/mechanical voltage reg for the '86 GMC 305 V8 .
*Though considering the prices and availability I may go with a
Mallory dual-point ignition . Probably a better choice considering
the motor's been built stage 3 .
Far better.
A Holly Sniper EFI unit is one step on from that.
Nope , nothing solid state will survive an EMP unless it's in a
Faraday cage .
On 2/10/2026 12:27 PM, Mars Sellus wrote:
On Tue, 10 Feb 2026 13:20:42 -0500
Ed P <esp@snet.n> wrote:
Given the complexity of new cars, I won't own one out of warranty+1
...and it's getting worse year by year:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cr0R2FkNKRk
Genesis G70...
a The newest motor vehicle we own is over 17 years old ... and I have
the tools to work on all of them .
On Tue, 10 Feb 2026 16:42:00 -0600
Snag <snag_one@msn.com> wrote:
On 2/10/2026 4:11 PM, Mars Sellus wrote:
On Tue, 10 Feb 2026 15:24:49 -0600
Snag <snag_one@msn.com> wrote:
On 2/10/2026 2:33 PM, Mars Sellus wrote:
On Tue, 10 Feb 2026 14:26:30 -0600
Snag <snag_one@msn.com> wrote:
On 2/10/2026 12:27 PM, Mars Sellus wrote:
On Tue, 10 Feb 2026 13:20:42 -0500
Ed P <esp@snet.n> wrote:
Given the complexity of new cars, I won't own one out of
warranty
+1
...and it's getting worse year by year:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cr0R2FkNKRk
Genesis G70...
The newest motor vehicle we own is over 17 years old ...
and I have the tools to work on all of them .
You are going to be A-ok when the s**t hits the fan.
Your garden is survival heaven.
I still need to source a mid 60's points distributor* and a
generator/mechanical voltage reg for the '86 GMC 305 V8 .
*Though considering the prices and availability I may go with a
Mallory dual-point ignition . Probably a better choice considering
the motor's been built stage 3 .
Far better.
A Holly Sniper EFI unit is one step on from that.
Nope , nothing solid state will survive an EMP unless it's in a
Faraday cage .
Do you consider the metal enclosure of a vehicle on rubber tires to be
one?
On 2/10/2026 2:33 PM, Mars Sellus wrote:Good luck getting high enough octane for "stage 3" when TSHTF - or
On Tue, 10 Feb 2026 14:26:30 -0600
Snag <snag_one@msn.com> wrote:
On 2/10/2026 12:27 PM, Mars Sellus wrote:
On Tue, 10 Feb 2026 13:20:42 -0500
Ed P <esp@snet.n> wrote:
Given the complexity of new cars, I won't own one out of warranty
+1
...and it's getting worse year by year:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cr0R2FkNKRk
Genesis G70...
The newest motor vehicle we own is over 17 years old ... and I
have the tools to work on all of them .
You are going to be A-ok when the s**t hits the fan.
Your garden is survival heaven.
I still need to source a mid 60's points distributor* and a
generator/mechanical voltage reg for the '86 GMC 305 V8 .
*Though considering the prices and availability I may go with a
Mallory dual-point ignition . Probably a better choice considering the >motor's been built stage 3 .
On Tue, 10 Feb 2026 16:42:00 -0600
Snag <snag_one@msn.com> wrote:
On 2/10/2026 4:11 PM, Mars Sellus wrote:
On Tue, 10 Feb 2026 15:24:49 -0600
Snag <snag_one@msn.com> wrote:
On 2/10/2026 2:33 PM, Mars Sellus wrote:
On Tue, 10 Feb 2026 14:26:30 -0600
Snag <snag_one@msn.com> wrote:
On 2/10/2026 12:27 PM, Mars Sellus wrote:
On Tue, 10 Feb 2026 13:20:42 -0500
Ed P <esp@snet.n> wrote:
Given the complexity of new cars, I won't own one out of
warranty
+1
...and it's getting worse year by year:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cr0R2FkNKRk
Genesis G70...
The newest motor vehicle we own is over 17 years old ...
and I have the tools to work on all of them .
You are going to be A-ok when the s**t hits the fan.
Your garden is survival heaven.
I still need to source a mid 60's points distributor* and a
generator/mechanical voltage reg for the '86 GMC 305 V8 .
*Though considering the prices and availability I may go with a
Mallory dual-point ignition . Probably a better choice considering
the motor's been built stage 3 .
Far better.
A Holly Sniper EFI unit is one step on from that.
Nope , nothing solid state will survive an EMP unless it's in a
Faraday cage .
Do you consider the metal enclosure of a vehicle on rubber tires to be
one?
Ed P <esp@snet.n> wrote:
Given the complexity of new cars, I won't own one out of warranty
On Tue, 10 Feb 2026 15:24:49 -0600, Snag <snag_one@msn.com> wrote:
On 2/10/2026 2:33 PM, Mars Sellus wrote:Good luck getting high enough octane for "stage 3" when TSHTF - or
On Tue, 10 Feb 2026 14:26:30 -0600
Snag <snag_one@msn.com> wrote:
On 2/10/2026 12:27 PM, Mars Sellus wrote:
On Tue, 10 Feb 2026 13:20:42 -0500
Ed P <esp@snet.n> wrote:
Given the complexity of new cars, I won't own one out of warranty
+1
...and it's getting worse year by year:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cr0R2FkNKRk
Genesis G70...
The newest motor vehicle we own is over 17 years old ... and I
have the tools to work on all of them .
You are going to be A-ok when the s**t hits the fan.
Your garden is survival heaven.
I still need to source a mid 60's points distributor* and a
generator/mechanical voltage reg for the '86 GMC 305 V8 .
*Though considering the prices and availability I may go with a
Mallory dual-point ignition . Probably a better choice considering the
motor's been built stage 3 .
will you just jet it out for Hooch?
(...)
Ed P <esp@snet.n> wrote:
Given the complexity of new cars, I won't own one out of warranty
You should consider an EV. They are simple and low-maintenance, and
easier & way more fun to drive than gasbangers. Electricity is also a
lot cheaper than gas.
For most people, there's not a very good case for gas cars.
(...)
Ed P<esp@snet.n> wrote:You should consider an EV. They are simple and low-maintenance, and
Given the complexity of new cars, I won't own one out of warranty
easier & way more fun to drive than gasbangers. Electricity is also a
lot cheaper than gas.
For most people, there's not a very good case for gas cars.
On 2/10/26 22:28, Roger Rhino wrote:
(...)
Ed P<esp@snet.n> wrote:You should consider an EV. They are simple and low-maintenance, and
Given the complexity of new cars, I won't own one out of warranty
easier & way more fun to drive than gasbangers. Electricity is also a
lot cheaper than gas.
For most people, there's not a very good case for gas cars.
Electric cars are the future, not the present.
I'll wait another decade or two.
(...)
Ed P <esp@snet.n> wrote:
Given the complexity of new cars, I won't own one out of warranty
You should consider an EV. They are simple and low-maintenance, and
easier & way more fun to drive than gasbangers. Electricity is also a
lot cheaper than gas.
For most people, there's not a very good case for gas cars.
On 2/10/2026 5:24 PM, Mars Sellus wrote:
On Tue, 10 Feb 2026 16:42:00 -0600
Snag <snag_one@msn.com> wrote:
On 2/10/2026 4:11 PM, Mars Sellus wrote:
On Tue, 10 Feb 2026 15:24:49 -0600
Snag <snag_one@msn.com> wrote:
On 2/10/2026 2:33 PM, Mars Sellus wrote:
On Tue, 10 Feb 2026 14:26:30 -0600
Snag <snag_one@msn.com> wrote:
On 2/10/2026 12:27 PM, Mars Sellus wrote:
On Tue, 10 Feb 2026 13:20:42 -0500
Ed P <esp@snet.n> wrote:
Given the complexity of new cars, I won't own one out of
warranty
+1
...and it's getting worse year by year:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cr0R2FkNKRk
Genesis G70...
The newest motor vehicle we own is over 17 years old ...
and I have the tools to work on all of them .
You are going to be A-ok when the s**t hits the fan.
Your garden is survival heaven.
I still need to source a mid 60's points distributor* and a
generator/mechanical voltage reg for the '86 GMC 305 V8 .
*Though considering the prices and availability I may go
with a Mallory dual-point ignition . Probably a better choice
considering the motor's been built stage 3 .
Far better.
A Holly Sniper EFI unit is one step on from that.
Nope , nothing solid state will survive an EMP unless it's in a
Faraday cage .
Do you consider the metal enclosure of a vehicle on rubber tires to
be one?
No , that's why I want an alternative to electronic ignition and
charging systems .
(...)
Ed P <esp@snet.n> wrote:
Given the complexity of new cars, I won't own one out of warranty
You should consider an EV. They are simple and low-maintenance, and
easier & way more fun to drive than gasbangers. Electricity is also a
lot cheaper than gas.
For most people, there's not a very good case for gas cars.
On Tue, 10 Feb 2026 13:20:42 -0500
Ed P <esp@snet.n> wrote:
Given the complexity of new cars, I won't own one out of warranty
+1
...and it's getting worse year by year:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cr0R2FkNKRk
Genesis G70...
On 2/10/26 22:28, Roger Rhino wrote:
(...)
Ed P<esp@snet.n> wrote:You should consider an EV. They are simple and low-maintenance, and
Given the complexity of new cars, I won't own one out of warranty
easier & way more fun to drive than gasbangers. Electricity is
also a lot cheaper than gas.
For most people, there's not a very good case for gas cars.
Electric cars are the future, not the present.
I'll wait another decade or two.
The most practical cars are hybrids. Better yet, plug in hybrid. If I0rCo60 MPH*
were buying a new car, I can't think of one I'd prefer over this. https://www.lexus.com/models/NX-PHEV?trim=nxphev-
On 2/10/2026 1:27 PM, Mars Sellus wrote:
On Tue, 10 Feb 2026 13:20:42 -0500
Ed P <esp@snet.n> wrote:
Given the complexity of new cars, I won't own one out of warranty
+1
...and it's getting worse year by year:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cr0R2FkNKRk
Genesis G70...
I don't necessarily agree. We drive a 2009 Corolla and a 2010 Prius.
We've never needed a repair on either car, only routine maintenance.
Our auto insurance is MUCH lower that it would be if we had 2 cars
still in warranty, and the $$ we've saved by not selling/trading
every few years and in lower insurance premiums has been invested.
Even if we had several $K repairs to both cars, we'd still be way
ahead in cost of ownership. Neither car has a rattle or rust and the
engines run as smoothly as when they were new. The corolla gets
about 30 mpg in town and in the high 30s on the highway. The prius
still gets 48-55 mpg depending more on the weather than on driving conditions. We both have clean driving records and would probably be
more distracted rather than helped by all the flashing lights and
chimes or beeps from all the newer sensors that are now standard
equipment in the new cars.
On 2/10/2026 7:30 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Tue, 10 Feb 2026 15:24:49 -0600, Snag <snag_one@msn.com> wrote:
On 2/10/2026 2:33 PM, Mars Sellus wrote:Good luck getting high enough octane for "stage 3" when TSHTF - or
On Tue, 10 Feb 2026 14:26:30 -0600
Snag <snag_one@msn.com> wrote:
On 2/10/2026 12:27 PM, Mars Sellus wrote:
On Tue, 10 Feb 2026 13:20:42 -0500
Ed P <esp@snet.n> wrote:
Given the complexity of new cars, I won't own one out of
warranty
+1
...and it's getting worse year by year:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cr0R2FkNKRk
Genesis G70...
The newest motor vehicle we own is over 17 years old ...
and I have the tools to work on all of them .
You are going to be A-ok when the s**t hits the fan.
Your garden is survival heaven.
I still need to source a mid 60's points distributor* and a
generator/mechanical voltage reg for the '86 GMC 305 V8 .
*Though considering the prices and availability I may go with a
Mallory dual-point ignition . Probably a better choice considering
the motor's been built stage 3 .
will you just jet it out for Hooch?
There's a lot of moonshiners in them thar hills ... and I'm only
running about 9.75:1 compression , runs fine with no pinging on 87
octane pump gas . Might not be considered a true stage 3 , but that's
what the cam (Elgin E922P) is so ...I'm also running a port matched Edelbrock Performer intake manifold and 1405 carb , small tube
headers and an Accel hi perf HEI ignition .
Nope , nothing solid state will survive an EMP unless it's in a
Faraday cage .
Roger Rhino <not@my.home> wrote:
Ed P <esp@snet.n> wrote:
Given the complexity of new cars, I won't own one out of warranty
You should consider an EV. They are simple and low-maintenance, and
easier & way more fun to drive than gasbangers. Electricity is also a
lot cheaper than gas.
For most people, there's not a very good case for gas cars.
Urban or suburban use favors EVs - road trips not at all.
Mars Sellus <zed@is.dead> wrote:
Roger Rhino <not@my.home> wrote:
Ed P <esp@snet.n> wrote:
Given the complexity of new cars, I won't own one out of warranty
You should consider an EV. They are simple and low-maintenance, and
easier & way more fun to drive than gasbangers. Electricity is also a
lot cheaper than gas.
For most people, there's not a very good case for gas cars.
Urban or suburban use favors EVs - road trips not at all.
EVs are great for road trips if you can use Tesla charging stations.
The others may be hit or miss.
(...)You have experience???
Ed P <esp@snet.n> wrote:
Given the complexity of new cars, I won't own one out of warranty
You should consider an EV. They are simple and low-maintenance, and
easier & way more fun to drive than gasbangers. Electricity is also a
lot cheaper than gas.
For most people, there's not a very good case for gas cars.
Mars Sellus <zed@is.dead> wrote:
Roger Rhino <not@my.home> wrote:
Ed P <esp@snet.n> wrote:
Given the complexity of new cars, I won't own one out of
warranty
You should consider an EV. They are simple and low-maintenance,
and easier & way more fun to drive than gasbangers. Electricity
is also a lot cheaper than gas.
For most people, there's not a very good case for gas cars.
Urban or suburban use favors EVs - road trips not at all.
EVs are great for road trips if you can use Tesla charging stations.
The others may be hit or miss.
On Wed, 11 Feb 2026 20:01:05 -0800
Roger Rhino <not@my.home> wrote:
Mars Sellus <zed@is.dead> wrote:
Roger Rhino <not@my.home> wrote:
Ed P <esp@snet.n> wrote:
Given the complexity of new cars, I won't own one out of
warranty
You should consider an EV. They are simple and low-maintenance,
and easier & way more fun to drive than gasbangers. Electricity
is also a lot cheaper than gas.
For most people, there's not a very good case for gas cars.
Urban or suburban use favors EVs - road trips not at all.
EVs are great for road trips if you can use Tesla charging stations.
The others may be hit or miss.
Which means major interstates only, not 2ndry, US, or state and
county roads.
On 2/12/2026 12:02 PM, Mars Sellus wrote:
On Wed, 11 Feb 2026 20:01:05 -0800
Roger Rhino <not@my.home> wrote:
Mars Sellus <zed@is.dead> wrote:
Roger Rhino <not@my.home> wrote:
Ed P <esp@snet.n> wrote:
Given the complexity of new cars, I won't own one out of
warranty
You should consider an EV. They are simple and low-maintenance,
and easier & way more fun to drive than gasbangers. Electricity
is also a lot cheaper than gas.
For most people, there's not a very good case for gas cars.
Urban or suburban use favors EVs - road trips not at all.
EVs are great for road trips if you can use Tesla charging
stations. The others may be hit or miss.
Which means major interstates only, not 2ndry, US, or state andI can't see the sense in anything other than a hybrid unless you only
county roads.
drive around town and never use a car for long trips. At some point
my wife and I are going to go one long, long driving trips,
alternating between tent camping, moderately priced motels and the
occasional neat, quirky or historic hotel. I want to mostly stay off
the Interstates unless we're going through the mountains. Short
driving days on two lane roads when practical is appealing.
On 2/12/2026 12:02 PM, Mars Sellus wrote:
On Wed, 11 Feb 2026 20:01:05 -0800
Roger Rhino <not@my.home> wrote:
Mars Sellus <zed@is.dead> wrote:
Roger Rhino <not@my.home> wrote:
Ed P <esp@snet.n> wrote:
Given the complexity of new cars, I won't own one out of
warranty
You should consider an EV. They are simple and low-maintenance,
and easier & way more fun to drive than gasbangers. Electricity
is also a lot cheaper than gas.
For most people, there's not a very good case for gas cars.
Urban or suburban use favors EVs - road trips not at all.
EVs are great for road trips if you can use Tesla charging stations.
The others may be hit or miss.
Which means major interstates only, not 2ndry, US, or state and
county roads.
I can't see the sense in anything other than a hybrid unless you only
drive around town and never use a car for long trips. At some point my
wife and I are going to go one long, long driving trips, alternating
between tent camping, moderately priced motels and the occasional neat, quirky or historic hotel. I want to mostly stay off the Interstates
unless we're going through the mountains. Short driving days on two lane roads when practical is appealing.
On Tue, 10 Feb 2026 19:28:11 -0800, Roger Rhino <not@my.home> wrote:
(...)
Ed P <esp@snet.n> wrote:
Given the complexity of new cars, I won't own one out of warranty
You should consider an EV. They are simple and low-maintenance, and
easier & way more fun to drive than gasbangers. Electricity is also a
lot cheaper than gas.
For most people, there's not a very good case for gas cars.You have experience???
I built and drove an electric coupe back about 1979-80
About as simple as it was possible to make it - but not exactly
practical for most of my life.
50Miles at 30MPH and 30 miles at 50MPH back then
Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca> wrote:
On Tue, 10 Feb 2026 19:28:11 -0800, Roger Rhino <not@my.home> wrote:
(...)You have experience???
Ed P <esp@snet.n> wrote:
Given the complexity of new cars, I won't own one out of warranty
You should consider an EV. They are simple and low-maintenance, and
easier & way more fun to drive than gasbangers. Electricity is also a
lot cheaper than gas.
For most people, there's not a very good case for gas cars.
I built and drove an electric coupe back about 1979-80
About as simple as it was possible to make it - but not exactly
practical for most of my life.
50Miles at 30MPH and 30 miles at 50MPH back then
That's pretty impressive. Do you still have it?
Bryan Simmons <bryangsimmons@gmail.com> wrote:
On 2/12/2026 12:02 PM, Mars Sellus wrote:
On Wed, 11 Feb 2026 20:01:05 -0800I can't see the sense in anything other than a hybrid unless you only
Roger Rhino <not@my.home> wrote:
Mars Sellus <zed@is.dead> wrote:
Roger Rhino <not@my.home> wrote:
Ed P <esp@snet.n> wrote:
Given the complexity of new cars, I won't own one out of
warranty
You should consider an EV. They are simple and low-maintenance,
and easier & way more fun to drive than gasbangers. Electricity
is also a lot cheaper than gas.
For most people, there's not a very good case for gas cars.
Urban or suburban use favors EVs - road trips not at all.
EVs are great for road trips if you can use Tesla charging stations.
The others may be hit or miss.
Which means major interstates only, not 2ndry, US, or state and
county roads.
drive around town and never use a car for long trips. At some point my
wife and I are going to go one long, long driving trips, alternating
between tent camping, moderately priced motels and the occasional neat,
quirky or historic hotel. I want to mostly stay off the Interstates
unless we're going through the mountains. Short driving days on two lane
roads when practical is appealing.
Hybrids are also a great choice. They are economical, but complicated,
and still have the maintenance issues of an ICE.
Hybrids are also a great choice.-a They are economical, but complicated,
and still have the maintenance issues of an ICE.
The ICE of a hybrid should almost never be stressed, so the engine
should last virtually forever, and oil changes could be infrequent.
Change the coolant every ten years or so. Yeah, eventually they'll need exhaust work. In the case of a PHEV, the engine is only experiencing the wear of a backup generator.
On 2/12/2026 9:29 PM, Bryan Simmons wrote:
The ICE of a hybrid should almost never be stressed, so the engine
Hybrids are also a great choice.a They are economical, but complicated,
and still have the maintenance issues of an ICE.
should last virtually forever, and oil changes could be infrequent.
Change the coolant every ten years or so. Yeah, eventually they'll need
exhaust work. In the case of a PHEV, the engine is only experiencing the
wear of a backup generator.
I really wish they gave the time/miles it ran on electric vs gas.
Oil change recommendations are the same as ICE at 8000 miles.
My average for the 8000 miles is about 45 mpg. Best is on the back roads >traveling at 45 to 50 mph and then I can exceed 50mpg/ Cold weather
reduces the mileage as the engine runs for heat.
On 2/12/2026 7:05 PM, Roger Rhino wrote:
Bryan Simmons <bryangsimmons@gmail.com> wrote:
On 2/12/2026 12:02 PM, Mars Sellus wrote:
On Wed, 11 Feb 2026 20:01:05 -0800I can't see the sense in anything other than a hybrid unless you
Roger Rhino <not@my.home> wrote:
Mars Sellus <zed@is.dead> wrote:
Roger Rhino <not@my.home> wrote:
Ed P <esp@snet.n> wrote:
Given the complexity of new cars, I won't own one out of
warranty
You should consider an EV. They are simple and
low-maintenance, and easier & way more fun to drive than
gasbangers. Electricity is also a lot cheaper than gas.
For most people, there's not a very good case for gas cars.
Urban or suburban use favors EVs - road trips not at all.
EVs are great for road trips if you can use Tesla charging
stations. The others may be hit or miss.
Which means major interstates only, not 2ndry, US, or state and
county roads.
only drive around town and never use a car for long trips. At some
point my wife and I are going to go one long, long driving trips,
alternating between tent camping, moderately priced motels and the
occasional neat, quirky or historic hotel. I want to mostly stay
off the Interstates unless we're going through the mountains.
Short driving days on two lane roads when practical is appealing.
Hybrids are also a great choice. They are economical, butThe ICE of a hybrid should almost never be stressed, so the engine
complicated, and still have the maintenance issues of an ICE.
should last virtually forever, and oil changes could be infrequent.
Change the coolant every ten years or so. Yeah, eventually they'll
need exhaust work. In the case of a PHEV, the engine is only
experiencing the wear of a backup generator.
On 2/12/2026 9:29 PM, Bryan Simmons wrote:
The ICE of a hybrid should almost never be stressed, so the engine
Hybrids are also a great choice.-a They are economical, but complicated, >>> and still have the maintenance issues of an ICE.
should last virtually forever, and oil changes could be infrequent.
Change the coolant every ten years or so. Yeah, eventually they'll
need exhaust work. In the case of a PHEV, the engine is only
experiencing the wear of a backup generator.
I really wish they gave the time/miles it ran on electric vs gas.
Oil change recommendations are the same as ICE at 8000 miles.
My average for the 8000 miles is about 45 mpg. Best is on the back roads traveling at 45 to 50 mph and then I can exceed 50mpg/ Cold weather
reduces the mileage as the engine runs for heat.
On Thu, 12 Feb 2026 20:29:28 -0600
Bryan Simmons <bryangsimmons@gmail.com> wrote:
The ICE of a hybrid should almost never be stressed, so the engine
should last virtually forever, and oil changes could be infrequent.
Less so the starter motor which has a regular and tough duty cycle.
Change the coolant every ten years or so. Yeah, eventually they'llBasically true.
need exhaust work. In the case of a PHEV, the engine is only
experiencing the wear of a backup generator.
On 2/13/2026 9:12 AM, Mars Sellus wrote:
On Thu, 12 Feb 2026 20:29:28 -0600
Bryan Simmons <bryangsimmons@gmail.com> wrote:
The ICE of a hybrid should almost never be stressed, so the engine
should last virtually forever, and oil changes could be infrequent.
Less so the starter motor which has a regular and tough duty cycle.
Yes, ans the starter motor, though I would think that would only be used when the car is stopped, or when the ICE is used for added acceleration
for a slow speed, but I don't know the workings of the system.
On 2/13/2026 9:12 AM, Mars Sellus wrote:Any regular duty cycle that shuts the ICE on and off(esp. when
On Thu, 12 Feb 2026 20:29:28 -0600
Bryan Simmons <bryangsimmons@gmail.com> wrote:
The ICE of a hybrid should almost never be stressed, so the engine
should last virtually forever, and oil changes could be
infrequent.
Less so the starter motor which has a regular and tough duty cycle.Yes, ans the starter motor, though I would think that would only be
used when the car is stopped, or when the ICE is used for added
acceleration for a slow speed, but I don't know the workings of the
system.
There is always used, let someone else eat the depreciation and get aIf we ever inherit a bunch of money, maybe we'll get the Lexus PHEV,
Change the coolant every ten years or so. Yeah, eventually they'llBasically true.
need exhaust work. In the case of a PHEV, the engine is only
experiencing the wear of a backup generator.
but absent that unlikely event, or a wreck, I think we've got a
lifetime supply of cars.
On 2/13/2026 10:41 AM, Bryan Simmons wrote:Regardless:
On 2/13/2026 9:12 AM, Mars Sellus wrote:
On Thu, 12 Feb 2026 20:29:28 -0600Yes, ans the starter motor, though I would think that would only be
Bryan Simmons <bryangsimmons@gmail.com> wrote:
The ICE of a hybrid should almost never be stressed, so the engine
should last virtually forever, and oil changes could be
infrequent.
Less so the starter motor which has a regular and tough duty cycle.
used when the car is stopped, or when the ICE is used for added acceleration for a slow speed, but I don't know the workings of the
system.
With ISG, the first thing that comes up is wearing out the starter
motor. They are nothing like the ones on the normal engine, these
are made to be much more rugged and used frequently.
On Thu, 12 Feb 2026 22:29:07 -0500, Ed P <esp@snet.n> wrote:That 35 (or less) EV range is a damned joke!
On 2/12/2026 9:29 PM, Bryan Simmons wrote:
The ICE of a hybrid should almost never be stressed, so the engine
Hybrids are also a great choice.-a They are economical, but
complicated, and still have the maintenance issues of an ICE.
should last virtually forever, and oil changes could be
infrequent. Change the coolant every ten years or so. Yeah,
eventually they'll need exhaust work. In the case of a PHEV, the
engine is only experiencing the wear of a backup generator.
I really wish they gave the time/miles it ran on electric vs gas.
Oil change recommendations are the same as ICE at 8000 miles.
My average for the 8000 miles is about 45 mpg. Best is on the back
roads traveling at 45 to 50 mph and then I can exceed 50mpg/ Cold
weather reduces the mileage as the engine runs for heat.
They tend to hide that vital statistic - they don't brag about
going ~ 35 miles < at best > on battery only ..
.. that's on a fully charged, new, perfect weather, etc
My neighbour has a Kia Sorento hybrid - a couple years old now -
I'm curious about how he'll feel about it in a couple more years ..
John T.
On Thu, 12 Feb 2026 17:08:33 -0800, Roger Rhino <not@my.home> wrote:
Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca> wrote:
On Tue, 10 Feb 2026 19:28:11 -0800, Roger Rhino <not@my.home>
wrote:
(...)You have experience???
Ed P <esp@snet.n> wrote:
Given the complexity of new cars, I won't own one out of
warranty
You should consider an EV. They are simple and low-maintenance,
and easier & way more fun to drive than gasbangers. Electricity
is also a lot cheaper than gas.
For most people, there's not a very good case for gas cars.
I built and drove an electric coupe back about 1979-80
About as simple as it was possible to make it - but not exactly
practical for most of my life.
50Miles at 30MPH and 30 miles at 50MPH back then
That's pretty impressive. Do you still have it?
Sadly , no. I made the mystake of basing it on a Fiat, which more or
less disintegrated. It was a 1975 Fiat 128 Sport Coupe -like this one: https://www.carandclassic.com/auctions/1973-fiat-128-1300-sport-coupe-41W57g
Including those rare cromadora rims
When the batteries frose because someone :needed the extention cord
more than I did" in winter storage and family commitments came ahead
of new battery replacement and rust repair, it was scrapped. Picture
it in refrigerator white with "electric blue metallic" rockers and
wheel surrounds and rear panel between the tail lights, with tan
interior - it was a good looking little machine.
On Thu, 12 Feb 2026 20:29:28 -0600
Bryan Simmons <bryangsimmons@gmail.com> wrote:
On 2/12/2026 7:05 PM, Roger Rhino wrote:
Bryan Simmons <bryangsimmons@gmail.com> wrote:The ICE of a hybrid should almost never be stressed, so the engine
On 2/12/2026 12:02 PM, Mars Sellus wrote:
On Wed, 11 Feb 2026 20:01:05 -0800I can't see the sense in anything other than a hybrid unless you
Roger Rhino <not@my.home> wrote:
Mars Sellus <zed@is.dead> wrote:
Roger Rhino <not@my.home> wrote:
Ed P <esp@snet.n> wrote:
Given the complexity of new cars, I won't own one out of
warranty
You should consider an EV. They are simple and
low-maintenance, and easier & way more fun to drive than
gasbangers. Electricity is also a lot cheaper than gas.
For most people, there's not a very good case for gas cars.
Urban or suburban use favors EVs - road trips not at all.
EVs are great for road trips if you can use Tesla charging
stations. The others may be hit or miss.
Which means major interstates only, not 2ndry, US, or state and
county roads.
only drive around town and never use a car for long trips. At some
point my wife and I are going to go one long, long driving trips,
alternating between tent camping, moderately priced motels and the
occasional neat, quirky or historic hotel. I want to mostly stay
off the Interstates unless we're going through the mountains.
Short driving days on two lane roads when practical is appealing.
Hybrids are also a great choice. They are economical, but
complicated, and still have the maintenance issues of an ICE.
should last virtually forever, and oil changes could be infrequent.
Less so the starter motor which has a regular and tough duty cycle.
Except on MOST PHEV systems thry are Parallel Hybrids, not series, soChange the coolant every ten years or so. Yeah, eventually they'll
need exhaust work. In the case of a PHEV, the engine is only
experiencing the wear of a backup generator.
Basically true.
On Thu, 12 Feb 2026 22:29:07 -0500, Ed P <esp@snet.n> wrote:My neighbour has a Prius Prime and in the summer he goes almost all
On 2/12/2026 9:29 PM, Bryan Simmons wrote:
The ICE of a hybrid should almost never be stressed, so the engine
Hybrids are also a great choice.a They are economical, but complicated, >>>> and still have the maintenance issues of an ICE.
should last virtually forever, and oil changes could be infrequent.
Change the coolant every ten years or so. Yeah, eventually they'll need >>> exhaust work. In the case of a PHEV, the engine is only experiencing the >>> wear of a backup generator.
I really wish they gave the time/miles it ran on electric vs gas.
Oil change recommendations are the same as ICE at 8000 miles.
My average for the 8000 miles is about 45 mpg. Best is on the back roads >>traveling at 45 to 50 mph and then I can exceed 50mpg/ Cold weather >>reduces the mileage as the engine runs for heat.
They tend to hide that vital statistic - they don't brag about
going ~ 35 miles < at best > on battery only ..
.. that's on a fully charged, new, perfect weather, etc
My neighbour has a Kia Sorento hybrid - a couple years old now -
I'm curious about how he'll feel about it in a couple more years ..
John T.
On Fri, 13 Feb 2026 10:13:17 -0500
hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:
On Thu, 12 Feb 2026 22:29:07 -0500, Ed P <esp@snet.n> wrote:
On 2/12/2026 9:29 PM, Bryan Simmons wrote:
The ICE of a hybrid should almost never be stressed, so the engine
Hybrids are also a great choice.a They are economical, but
complicated, and still have the maintenance issues of an ICE.
should last virtually forever, and oil changes could be
infrequent. Change the coolant every ten years or so. Yeah,
eventually they'll need exhaust work. In the case of a PHEV, the
engine is only experiencing the wear of a backup generator.
I really wish they gave the time/miles it ran on electric vs gas.
Oil change recommendations are the same as ICE at 8000 miles.
My average for the 8000 miles is about 45 mpg. Best is on the back
roads traveling at 45 to 50 mph and then I can exceed 50mpg/ Cold
weather reduces the mileage as the engine runs for heat.
They tend to hide that vital statistic - they don't brag about
going ~ 35 miles < at best > on battery only ..
.. that's on a fully charged, new, perfect weather, etc
My neighbour has a Kia Sorento hybrid - a couple years old now -
I'm curious about how he'll feel about it in a couple more years ..
John T.
That 35 (or less) EV range is a damned joke!
On Fri, 13 Feb 2026 10:52:28 -0500
Ed P <esp@snet.n> wrote:
On 2/13/2026 10:41 AM, Bryan Simmons wrote:
On 2/13/2026 9:12 AM, Mars Sellus wrote:
On Thu, 12 Feb 2026 20:29:28 -0600>
Bryan Simmons <bryangsimmons@gmail.com> wrote:
The ICE of a hybrid should almost never be stressed, so the engine
should last virtually forever, and oil changes could be
infrequent.
Less so the starter motor which has a regular and tough duty cycle.
Yes, ans the starter motor, though I would think that would only be
used when the car is stopped, or when the ICE is used for added
acceleration for a slow speed, but I don't know the workings of the
system.
With ISG, the first thing that comes up is wearing out the starter
motor. They are nothing like the ones on the normal engine, these
are made to be much more rugged and used frequently.
Regardless:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-xzjo66ifg
Hybrids change the equation. In a full hybrid like a Toyota Prius or Ford Escape Hybrid, the gas engine only runs when needed: to boost power, recharge the battery, or drive the wheels at higher speeds. That means the engine can start and stop dozens of times in a single commute. Every restart demands instant oil pressure, reliable fuel delivery, and consistent sparkrCooften under cooler-than-optimal conditions.
Why Limited Run Time Matters
The bigger concern isnrCOt just the restart, itrCOs the lack of sustained engine operation. ICE engines are designed to reach a specific temperature range, where heat boils off water vapor, fuel dilution, and combustion byproducts in the crankcase.
In a hybrid, the engine might only run for 30 seconds here or a minute there, never reaching that sweet spot. That lets moisture stay in the oil longer, leading to:
On 2/13/2026 11:19 AM, Mars Sellus wrote:Their system is aces, but it still requires far higher duty cycle
On Fri, 13 Feb 2026 10:52:28 -0500
Ed P <esp@snet.n> wrote:
On 2/13/2026 10:41 AM, Bryan Simmons wrote:
On 2/13/2026 9:12 AM, Mars Sellus wrote:
On Thu, 12 Feb 2026 20:29:28 -0600>
Bryan Simmons <bryangsimmons@gmail.com> wrote:
The ICE of a hybrid should almost never be stressed, so the
engine should last virtually forever, and oil changes could be
infrequent.
Less so the starter motor which has a regular and tough duty
cycle.
Yes, ans the starter motor, though I would think that would only
be used when the car is stopped, or when the ICE is used for added
acceleration for a slow speed, but I don't know the workings of
the system.
With ISG, the first thing that comes up is wearing out the starter
motor. They are nothing like the ones on the normal engine, these
are made to be much more rugged and used frequently.
Regardless:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-xzjo66ifg
Hybrids change the equation. In a full hybrid like a Toyota Prius
or Ford Escape Hybrid, the gas engine only runs when needed: to
boost power, recharge the battery, or drive the wheels at higher
speeds. That means the engine can start and stop dozens of times in
a single commute. Every restart demands instant oil pressure,
reliable fuel delivery, and consistent sparkrCooften under cooler-than-optimal conditions.
I have a Prius. You are out of touch with reality. The car starts
from an engine-off stop with a traction motor till about 20 mph. The
engine then starts on another traction motor. The car is then seldom
powered by just battery. The electric adds to the gas engine. The
battery is to capture the kinetic energy of a stop (regeneration),
keep the engine operating at an efficient point (controlling driving
and added power for charging) and can add drive power.
Go argue with AI then.Why Limited Run Time Matters
The bigger concern isnrCOt just the restart, itrCOs the lack of
sustained engine operation. ICE engines are designed to reach a
specific temperature range, where heat boils off water vapor, fuel dilution, and combustion byproducts in the crankcase.
In a hybrid, the engine might only run for 30 seconds here or a
minute there, never reaching that sweet spot. That lets moisture
stay in the oil longer, leading to:
Continued nonsense.
Prius has a high Consumer Reports rating.AI Overview
Also high consumer satisfaction. Part of the rating is based
on actual user experience (like low maintenance). Your dreams are
just YOUR nightmares.
The temperature concern on a Prius is efficiency. Cold engines run on approximations in firmware (open-loop). Warm engines use sensors like
the oxygen sensors (closed-loop) which is significantly more
efficient. The Prius, when it is turned off, pumps hot coolant into a
vacuum insulated bottle. When it is turned on the coolant is pumped
back into the engine to get to closed-loop.
A Prius does not have a 12V starter. It starts on one of the 2
traction motors and high voltage battery. That is one of the same
motors that moves the car. You think that motor has a starter wear
problem? Do any hybrids have a 12V starter? The traction motors, by
the way, are 3-phase AC.
The Prius also does not have an alternator. The 12V battery is
charged by a DC-to-DC converter from the high voltage battery.
My Prius has over 150.000 miles with just routine maintenance.
Including, for instance, no brake work because of regeneration.
"It is better to keep your mouth shut and have people think you are a
fool than to open it and remove all doubt."
On 2/11/2026 5:31 AM, redacted wrote:
On 2/10/26 22:28, Roger Rhino wrote:
(...)
Ed P<esp@snet.n> wrote:You should consider an EV. They are simple and low-maintenance, and
Given the complexity of new cars, I won't own one out of warranty
easier & way more fun to drive than gasbangers. Electricity is also a
lot cheaper than gas.
For most people, there's not a very good case for gas cars.
Electric cars are the future, not the present.
I'll wait another decade or two.
The most practical cars are hybrids. Better yet, plug in hybrid. If I
were buying a new car, I can't think of one I'd prefer over this. https://www.lexus.com/models/NX-PHEV?trim=nxphev-2
For a second car, this.
https://www.toyota.com/priuspluginhybrid/
I may never buy another car though. We own an old Yaris that gets decent mileage for around town, an Infiniti for longer trips and an old beater Acura RDX with 200K+ miles that's mostly for camping or snow. The
Infiniti is great, but it guzzles 93 octane. Not that bad these days
because gas is cheap, but a dew years ago premium was like $4.50, and it cost $70 to fill up that thing.
We save $200-$300 a year buying gas at Costco. That $65 membership also
gets us $5 chickens.
Bryan Simmons <bryangsimmons@gmail.com> posted:
On 2/11/2026 5:31 AM, redacted wrote:
On 2/10/26 22:28, Roger Rhino wrote:
(...)
Ed P<esp@snet.n> wrote:You should consider an EV. They are simple and low-maintenance,
Given the complexity of new cars, I won't own one out of
warranty
and easier & way more fun to drive than gasbangers. Electricity
is also a lot cheaper than gas.
For most people, there's not a very good case for gas cars.
Electric cars are the future, not the present.
I'll wait another decade or two.The most practical cars are hybrids. Better yet, plug in hybrid. If
I were buying a new car, I can't think of one I'd prefer over this. https://www.lexus.com/models/NX-PHEV?trim=nxphev-2
For a second car, this.
https://www.toyota.com/priuspluginhybrid/
I may never buy another car though. We own an old Yaris that gets
decent mileage for around town, an Infiniti for longer trips and an
old beater Acura RDX with 200K+ miles that's mostly for camping or
snow. The Infiniti is great, but it guzzles 93 octane. Not that bad
these days because gas is cheap, but a dew years ago premium was
like $4.50, and it cost $70 to fill up that thing.
We save $200-$300 a year buying gas at Costco. That $65 membership
also gets us $5 chickens.
Gasoline engines are so inefficient that it's better to use a small
gas engine to generate electricity to power electric motors than to
power the wheels directly.
My son was driving his girlfriend's hybrid
today. We were parked and he had the AC on. That was unnerving to see
that but I think it's going to be a thing in this new age.
On Fri, 13 Feb 2026 21:39:01 -0600
bud-- <null@void.com> wrote:
On 2/13/2026 11:19 AM, Mars Sellus wrote:
On Fri, 13 Feb 2026 10:52:28 -0500
Ed P <esp@snet.n> wrote:
On 2/13/2026 10:41 AM, Bryan Simmons wrote:
On 2/13/2026 9:12 AM, Mars Sellus wrote:
On Thu, 12 Feb 2026 20:29:28 -0600>
Bryan Simmons <bryangsimmons@gmail.com> wrote:
The ICE of a hybrid should almost never be stressed, so the
engine should last virtually forever, and oil changes could be
infrequent.
Less so the starter motor which has a regular and tough duty
cycle.
Yes, ans the starter motor, though I would think that would only
be used when the car is stopped, or when the ICE is used for added
acceleration for a slow speed, but I don't know the workings of
the system.
With ISG, the first thing that comes up is wearing out the starter
motor. They are nothing like the ones on the normal engine, these
are made to be much more rugged and used frequently.
Regardless:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-xzjo66ifg
Hybrids change the equation. In a full hybrid like a Toyota Prius
or Ford Escape Hybrid, the gas engine only runs when needed: to
boost power, recharge the battery, or drive the wheels at higher
speeds. That means the engine can start and stop dozens of times in
a single commute. Every restart demands instant oil pressure,
reliable fuel delivery, and consistent sparkrCooften under
cooler-than-optimal conditions.
I have a Prius. You are out of touch with reality. The car starts
from an engine-off stop with a traction motor till about 20 mph. The
engine then starts on another traction motor. The car is then seldom
powered by just battery. The electric adds to the gas engine. The
battery is to capture the kinetic energy of a stop (regeneration),
keep the engine operating at an efficient point (controlling driving
and added power for charging) and can add drive power.
Their system is aces,
but it still requires far higher duty cycle
starter motors.
Why Limited Run Time Matters
The bigger concern isnrCOt just the restart, itrCOs the lack of
sustained engine operation. ICE engines are designed to reach a
specific temperature range, where heat boils off water vapor, fuel
dilution, and combustion byproducts in the crankcase.
In a hybrid, the engine might only run for 30 seconds here or a
minute there, never reaching that sweet spot. That lets moisture
stay in the oil longer, leading to:
Continued nonsense.
Go argue with AI then.
And btw, there are more hybrids with starter motors than without...
Prius has a high Consumer Reports rating.
Also high consumer satisfaction. Part of the rating is based
on actual user experience (like low maintenance). Your dreams are
just YOUR nightmares.
The temperature concern on a Prius is efficiency. Cold engines run on
approximations in firmware (open-loop). Warm engines use sensors like
the oxygen sensors (closed-loop) which is significantly more
efficient. The Prius, when it is turned off, pumps hot coolant into a
vacuum insulated bottle. When it is turned on the coolant is pumped
back into the engine to get to closed-loop.
A Prius does not have a 12V starter. It starts on one of the 2
traction motors and high voltage battery. That is one of the same
motors that moves the car. You think that motor has a starter wear
problem? Do any hybrids have a 12V starter? The traction motors, by
the way, are 3-phase AC.
The Prius also does not have an alternator. The 12V battery is
charged by a DC-to-DC converter from the high voltage battery.
My Prius has over 150.000 miles with just routine maintenance.
Including, for instance, no brake work because of regeneration.
"It is better to keep your mouth shut and have people think you are a
fool than to open it and remove all doubt."
AI Overview
Starter Motors for Toyota Prius V
The Toyota Prius does not have a traditional starter motor or
alternator; it uses a high-voltage motor-generator (MG1) inside the
transaxle to spin the engine, powered by the hybrid battery. A 12V
battery is still used to energize the system, and a "ready" light or
click indicates it is active.
Iow, a starter motor by any other name is still a starter motor.
But its refreshing to see you upon your hind legs for Toyota.
Meanwhile:
AI Overview
Mild hybrid (MHEV) vehicles are the primary hybrids that use a starter motor, usually in the form of a 48-volt Integrated Starter Generator (ISG) or Belt-driven Starter Generator (BSG). These systems use the electric motor to spin the engine for quick, smooth stop-start functionality and to assist with acceleration.
Common Mild Hybrids with Starter-Generators:
Audi: A4, A6, Q5, Q7, Q8 (often labeled TFSI or TDI)
BMW: 3 Series, 5 Series (48V mild-hybrid models)
Mercedes-Benz: C-Class, E-Class, S-Class (EQ Boost models)
Kia/Hyundai: Sportage, Stonic, Tucson, Kona (often 48V systems)
Suzuki: Swift, Ignis
Mazda: Mazda3, CX-5 (M Hybrid models)
Volkswagen: Golf (eTSI models)
Key Details:
Function: Unlike traditional starters, these ISGs also act as alternators to charge the battery through regenerative braking.
Operation: The motor provides a "boost" to the internal combustion engine but typically cannot propel the vehicle on its own.
Distinction: Full hybrids (like Toyota Prius) generally do not use a
separate starter motor; they use their high-voltage electric
motor/generator (MG1) to start the engine.
On 2/14/2026 12:37 PM, Mars Sellus wrote:Perplexed over a colloquialism, do tell...
On Fri, 13 Feb 2026 21:39:01 -0600
bud-- <null@void.com> wrote:
On 2/13/2026 11:19 AM, Mars Sellus wrote:
On Fri, 13 Feb 2026 10:52:28 -0500
Ed P <esp@snet.n> wrote:
On 2/13/2026 10:41 AM, Bryan Simmons wrote:
On 2/13/2026 9:12 AM, Mars Sellus wrote:
On Thu, 12 Feb 2026 20:29:28 -0600>
Bryan Simmons <bryangsimmons@gmail.com> wrote:
The ICE of a hybrid should almost never be stressed, so the
engine should last virtually forever, and oil changes could be >>>>>>> infrequent.
Less so the starter motor which has a regular and tough duty
cycle.
Yes, ans the starter motor, though I would think that would only
be used when the car is stopped, or when the ICE is used for
added acceleration for a slow speed, but I don't know the
workings of the system.
With ISG, the first thing that comes up is wearing out the
starter motor. They are nothing like the ones on the normal
engine, these are made to be much more rugged and used
frequently.
Regardless:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-xzjo66ifg
Hybrids change the equation. In a full hybrid like a Toyota Prius
or Ford Escape Hybrid, the gas engine only runs when needed: to
boost power, recharge the battery, or drive the wheels at higher
speeds. That means the engine can start and stop dozens of times
in a single commute. Every restart demands instant oil pressure,
reliable fuel delivery, and consistent sparkrCooften under
cooler-than-optimal conditions.
I have a Prius. You are out of touch with reality. The car starts
from an engine-off stop with a traction motor till about 20 mph.
The engine then starts on another traction motor. The car is then
seldom powered by just battery. The electric adds to the gas
engine. The battery is to capture the kinetic energy of a stop
(regeneration), keep the engine operating at an efficient point
(controlling driving and added power for charging) and can add
drive power.
Their system is aces,
Whatever that means
Duty cycle must be accordingly high regardless.but it still requires far higher duty cycle
starter motors.
A Prius does not have a starter motor. The engine is started by one
of the traction motors. That motor moves the car but also starts the
engine. "You think that motor has a starter wear problem?"
Two traction motors, the engine, and the wheels are all combined in a planetary drive. No gear shifting or variable pitch pulleys. Both
traction motors can move the car (or act as generators).
Nothing to interpret, it is as it reads.
Why Limited Run Time Matters
The bigger concern isnrCOt just the restart, itrCOs the lack of
sustained engine operation. ICE engines are designed to reach a
specific temperature range, where heat boils off water vapor, fuel
dilution, and combustion byproducts in the crankcase.
In a hybrid, the engine might only run for 30 seconds here or a
minute there, never reaching that sweet spot. That lets moisture
stay in the oil longer, leading to:
Continued nonsense.
Go argue with AI then.
Yea - AI is known to be so accurate. And you are such a fine
interpreter.
I do.And btw, there are more hybrids with starter motors than without...
I have no idea.
But you are not a reliable source (and provide no source).I did.
It is being used to start it, ergo...
Prius has a high Consumer Reports rating.
Also high consumer satisfaction. Part of the rating is
based on actual user experience (like low maintenance). Your
dreams are just YOUR nightmares.
The temperature concern on a Prius is efficiency. Cold engines run
on approximations in firmware (open-loop). Warm engines use
sensors like the oxygen sensors (closed-loop) which is
significantly more efficient. The Prius, when it is turned off,
pumps hot coolant into a vacuum insulated bottle. When it is
turned on the coolant is pumped back into the engine to get to
closed-loop.
A Prius does not have a 12V starter. It starts on one of the 2
traction motors and high voltage battery. That is one of the same
motors that moves the car. You think that motor has a starter wear
problem? Do any hybrids have a 12V starter? The traction motors, by
the way, are 3-phase AC.
The Prius also does not have an alternator. The 12V battery is
charged by a DC-to-DC converter from the high voltage battery.
My Prius has over 150.000 miles with just routine maintenance.
Including, for instance, no brake work because of regeneration.
"It is better to keep your mouth shut and have people think you
are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."
AI Overview
Starter Motors for Toyota Prius V
The Toyota Prius does not have a traditional starter motor or
alternator; it uses a high-voltage motor-generator (MG1) inside the transaxle to spin the engine, powered by the hybrid battery. A 12V
battery is still used to energize the system, and a "ready" light or
click indicates it is active.
Iow, a starter motor by any other name is still a starter motor.
One of the two traction motors that drive the car is also used to
start the car. It is not a starter motor. Your AI does not disagree
with that. You are remarkable dense.
Prii have been around since their first butt ugly incarnation, largelyBut its refreshing to see you upon your hind legs for Toyota.
I thought hybrid engines would self-destruct in a year.
Retirednoguilt's 2010 Prius hasn't self-destructed yet either.
Mild Hybrids with Starter Generator (48V or 12V)Meanwhile:
AI Overview
Mild hybrid (MHEV) vehicles are the primary hybrids that use a
starter motor, usually in the form of a 48-volt Integrated Starter Generator (ISG) or Belt-driven Starter Generator (BSG). These
systems use the electric motor to spin the engine for quick, smooth stop-start functionality and to assist with acceleration. Common
Mild Hybrids with Starter-Generators: Audi: A4, A6, Q5, Q7, Q8
(often labeled TFSI or TDI) BMW: 3 Series, 5 Series (48V
mild-hybrid models) Mercedes-Benz: C-Class, E-Class, S-Class (EQ
Boost models) Kia/Hyundai: Sportage, Stonic, Tucson, Kona (often
48V systems) Suzuki: Swift, Ignis Mazda: Mazda3, CX-5 (M Hybrid
models) Volkswagen: Golf (eTSI models) Key Details: Function:
Unlike traditional starters, these ISGs also act as alternators to
charge the battery through regenerative braking. Operation: The
motor provides a "boost" to the internal combustion engine but
typically cannot propel the vehicle on its own. Distinction: Full
hybrids (like Toyota Prius) generally do not use a separate starter
motor; they use their high-voltage electric motor/generator (MG1)
to start the engine.
Doesn't seem particularly useful and does not disagree with what I
have said.
I defer to Clare.
Bryan Simmons <bryangsimmons@gmail.com> posted:
On 2/11/2026 5:31 AM, redacted wrote:
On 2/10/26 22:28, Roger Rhino wrote:
(...)
Ed P<esp@snet.n> wrote:You should consider an EV. They are simple and low-maintenance, and
Given the complexity of new cars, I won't own one out of warranty
easier & way more fun to drive than gasbangers. Electricity is also a >> lot cheaper than gas.
For most people, there's not a very good case for gas cars.
Electric cars are the future, not the present.
I'll wait another decade or two.
The most practical cars are hybrids. Better yet, plug in hybrid. If I
were buying a new car, I can't think of one I'd prefer over this. https://www.lexus.com/models/NX-PHEV?trim=nxphev-2
For a second car, this.
https://www.toyota.com/priuspluginhybrid/
I may never buy another car though. We own an old Yaris that gets decent mileage for around town, an Infiniti for longer trips and an old beater Acura RDX with 200K+ miles that's mostly for camping or snow. The
Infiniti is great, but it guzzles 93 octane. Not that bad these days because gas is cheap, but a dew years ago premium was like $4.50, and it cost $70 to fill up that thing.
We save $200-$300 a year buying gas at Costco. That $65 membership also gets us $5 chickens.
Gasoline engines are so inefficient that it's better to use a small gas engine to
generate electricity to power electric motors than to power the wheels directly.
My son was driving his girlfriend's hybrid today. We were parked and he had the
AC on. That was unnerving to see that but I think it's going to be a thing in this
new age.
On Tue, 10 Feb 2026 21:15:25 -0600
Snag <snag_one@msn.com> wrote:
On 2/10/2026 5:24 PM, Mars Sellus wrote:
On Tue, 10 Feb 2026 16:42:00 -0600
Snag <snag_one@msn.com> wrote:
On 2/10/2026 4:11 PM, Mars Sellus wrote:
On Tue, 10 Feb 2026 15:24:49 -0600
Snag <snag_one@msn.com> wrote:
On 2/10/2026 2:33 PM, Mars Sellus wrote:
On Tue, 10 Feb 2026 14:26:30 -0600
Snag <snag_one@msn.com> wrote:
On 2/10/2026 12:27 PM, Mars Sellus wrote:
On Tue, 10 Feb 2026 13:20:42 -0500
Ed P <esp@snet.n> wrote:
Given the complexity of new cars, I won't own one out of
warranty
+1
...and it's getting worse year by year:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cr0R2FkNKRk
Genesis G70...
The newest motor vehicle we own is over 17 years old ... >>>>>>>> and I have the tools to work on all of them .
You are going to be A-ok when the s**t hits the fan.
Your garden is survival heaven.
I still need to source a mid 60's points distributor* and a
generator/mechanical voltage reg for the '86 GMC 305 V8 .
*Though considering the prices and availability I may go
with a Mallory dual-point ignition . Probably a better choice
considering the motor's been built stage 3 .
Far better.
A Holly Sniper EFI unit is one step on from that.
Nope , nothing solid state will survive an EMP unless it's in a
Faraday cage .
Do you consider the metal enclosure of a vehicle on rubber tires to
be one?
No , that's why I want an alternative to electronic ignition and
charging systems .
Fair enough, just remember to pull the battery and get in inside or
it'll be bump start only.
dsi1 <user4746@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
Bryan Simmons <bryangsimmons@gmail.com> posted:
On 2/11/2026 5:31 AM, redacted wrote:
On 2/10/26 22:28, Roger Rhino wrote:
(...)
Ed P<esp@snet.n> wrote:You should consider an EV. They are simple and
Given the complexity of new cars, I won't own one out of
warranty
low-maintenance, and easier & way more fun to drive than
gasbangers. Electricity is also a lot cheaper than gas.
For most people, there's not a very good case for gas cars.
Electric cars are the future, not the present.
I'll wait another decade or two.The most practical cars are hybrids. Better yet, plug in hybrid.
If I were buying a new car, I can't think of one I'd prefer over
this. https://www.lexus.com/models/NX-PHEV?trim=nxphev-2
For a second car, this.
https://www.toyota.com/priuspluginhybrid/
I may never buy another car though. We own an old Yaris that gets
decent mileage for around town, an Infiniti for longer trips and
an old beater Acura RDX with 200K+ miles that's mostly for
camping or snow. The Infiniti is great, but it guzzles 93 octane.
Not that bad these days because gas is cheap, but a dew years ago
premium was like $4.50, and it cost $70 to fill up that thing.
We save $200-$300 a year buying gas at Costco. That $65
membership also gets us $5 chickens.
Gasoline engines are so inefficient that it's better to use a small
gas engine to generate electricity to power electric motors than to
power the wheels directly. My son was driving his girlfriend's
hybrid today. We were parked and he had the AC on. That was
unnerving to see that but I think it's going to be a thing in this
new age.
EVs use a heat pump for heater/AC. They are reasonably efficient, considering.
Gas cars have the "advantage" of abundant waste heat for running the
heater, exactly because they are so inefficient. The AC compressor is powered off the engine, so it has to be in the engine compartment. So
your AC is trying to move heat from the cabin into the already-hot
engine compartment on a hot day, which is a whole 'nother layer of inefficiency.
On Sat, 14 Feb 2026 21:36:50 GMT
dsi1 <user4746@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
Bryan Simmons <bryangsimmons@gmail.com> posted:
On 2/11/2026 5:31 AM, redacted wrote:
On 2/10/26 22:28, Roger Rhino wrote:
(...)
Ed P<esp@snet.n> wrote:You should consider an EV. They are simple and low-maintenance,
Given the complexity of new cars, I won't own one out of
warranty
and easier & way more fun to drive than gasbangers. Electricity
is also a lot cheaper than gas.
For most people, there's not a very good case for gas cars.
Electric cars are the future, not the present.
I'll wait another decade or two.The most practical cars are hybrids. Better yet, plug in hybrid. If
I were buying a new car, I can't think of one I'd prefer over this. https://www.lexus.com/models/NX-PHEV?trim=nxphev-2
For a second car, this.
https://www.toyota.com/priuspluginhybrid/
I may never buy another car though. We own an old Yaris that gets
decent mileage for around town, an Infiniti for longer trips and an
old beater Acura RDX with 200K+ miles that's mostly for camping or
snow. The Infiniti is great, but it guzzles 93 octane. Not that bad
these days because gas is cheap, but a dew years ago premium was
like $4.50, and it cost $70 to fill up that thing.
We save $200-$300 a year buying gas at Costco. That $65 membership
also gets us $5 chickens.
Gasoline engines are so inefficient that it's better to use a small
gas engine to generate electricity to power electric motors than to
power the wheels directly.
Yet Chey's Volt somehow didn't survive, neither did BMW's funky little
i3, nor the aptly named Fisker Karma.
But in terms of energy used it made some sense.
Mini generators great, 153 miles range (BMW), not so much.
My son was driving his girlfriend's hybrid
today. We were parked and he had the AC on. That was unnerving to see
that but I think it's going to be a thing in this new age.
Tis indeed.
dsi1 <user4746@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
Bryan Simmons <bryangsimmons@gmail.com> posted:
On 2/11/2026 5:31 AM, redacted wrote:
On 2/10/26 22:28, Roger Rhino wrote:
(...)
Ed P<esp@snet.n> wrote:You should consider an EV. They are simple and low-maintenance, and >> easier & way more fun to drive than gasbangers. Electricity is also a >> lot cheaper than gas.
Given the complexity of new cars, I won't own one out of warranty
For most people, there's not a very good case for gas cars.
Electric cars are the future, not the present.
I'll wait another decade or two.
The most practical cars are hybrids. Better yet, plug in hybrid. If I were buying a new car, I can't think of one I'd prefer over this. https://www.lexus.com/models/NX-PHEV?trim=nxphev-2
For a second car, this.
https://www.toyota.com/priuspluginhybrid/
I may never buy another car though. We own an old Yaris that gets decent mileage for around town, an Infiniti for longer trips and an old beater Acura RDX with 200K+ miles that's mostly for camping or snow. The Infiniti is great, but it guzzles 93 octane. Not that bad these days because gas is cheap, but a dew years ago premium was like $4.50, and it cost $70 to fill up that thing.
We save $200-$300 a year buying gas at Costco. That $65 membership also gets us $5 chickens.
Gasoline engines are so inefficient that it's better to use a small gas engine to
generate electricity to power electric motors than to power the wheels directly.
My son was driving his girlfriend's hybrid today. We were parked and he had the
AC on. That was unnerving to see that but I think it's going to be a thing in this
new age.
EVs use a heat pump for heater/AC. They are reasonably efficient, considering.
Gas cars have the "advantage" of abundant waste heat for running the
heater, exactly because they are so inefficient. The AC compressor is powered off the engine, so it has to be in the engine compartment. So
your AC is trying to move heat from the cabin into the already-hot
engine compartment on a hot day, which is a whole 'nother layer of inefficiency.
Mars Sellus <zed@is.dead> posted:
On Sat, 14 Feb 2026 21:36:50 GMT
dsi1 <user4746@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
Bryan Simmons <bryangsimmons@gmail.com> posted:
On 2/11/2026 5:31 AM, redacted wrote:
On 2/10/26 22:28, Roger Rhino wrote:
(...)
Ed P<esp@snet.n> wrote:You should consider an EV. They are simple and
Given the complexity of new cars, I won't own one out of
warranty
low-maintenance, and easier & way more fun to drive than
gasbangers. Electricity is also a lot cheaper than gas.
For most people, there's not a very good case for gas cars.
Electric cars are the future, not the present.
I'll wait another decade or two.The most practical cars are hybrids. Better yet, plug in
hybrid. If I were buying a new car, I can't think of one I'd
prefer over this.
https://www.lexus.com/models/NX-PHEV?trim=nxphev-2 For a second
car, this. https://www.toyota.com/priuspluginhybrid/
I may never buy another car though. We own an old Yaris that
gets decent mileage for around town, an Infiniti for longer
trips and an old beater Acura RDX with 200K+ miles that's
mostly for camping or snow. The Infiniti is great, but it
guzzles 93 octane. Not that bad these days because gas is
cheap, but a dew years ago premium was like $4.50, and it cost
$70 to fill up that thing.
We save $200-$300 a year buying gas at Costco. That $65
membership also gets us $5 chickens.
Gasoline engines are so inefficient that it's better to use a
small gas engine to generate electricity to power electric motors
than to power the wheels directly.
Yet Chey's Volt somehow didn't survive, neither did BMW's funky
little i3, nor the aptly named Fisker Karma.
But in terms of energy used it made some sense.
Mini generators great, 153 miles range (BMW), not so much.
My son was driving his girlfriend's hybrid
today. We were parked and he had the AC on. That was unnerving to
see that but I think it's going to be a thing in this new age.
Tis indeed.
My guess is that the days of hybrid cars are numbered. Cars with
batteries of over 150 kWh will probably kill off gasoline engines.
Solid state batteries with energy densities of over 400 Wh/kg will
probably kill off liquid electrolyte batteries. Batteries with high
energy densities will probably kill off gasoline generators. There'll
be a whole lot of killin' going on.
https://carnewschina.com/2026/02/11/china-to-release-solid-state-battery-standard-in-july-2026/
Roger Rhino <not@my.home> posted:
dsi1 <user4746@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
Bryan Simmons <bryangsimmons@gmail.com> posted:
On 2/11/2026 5:31 AM, redacted wrote:
On 2/10/26 22:28, Roger Rhino wrote:
(...)
Ed P<esp@snet.n> wrote:You should consider an EV. They are simple and
Given the complexity of new cars, I won't own one out of
warranty
low-maintenance, and easier & way more fun to drive than
gasbangers. Electricity is also a lot cheaper than gas.
For most people, there's not a very good case for gas cars.
Electric cars are the future, not the present.
I'll wait another decade or two.The most practical cars are hybrids. Better yet, plug in
hybrid. If I were buying a new car, I can't think of one I'd
prefer over this.
https://www.lexus.com/models/NX-PHEV?trim=nxphev-2 For a second
car, this. https://www.toyota.com/priuspluginhybrid/
I may never buy another car though. We own an old Yaris that
gets decent mileage for around town, an Infiniti for longer
trips and an old beater Acura RDX with 200K+ miles that's
mostly for camping or snow. The Infiniti is great, but it
guzzles 93 octane. Not that bad these days because gas is
cheap, but a dew years ago premium was like $4.50, and it cost
$70 to fill up that thing.
We save $200-$300 a year buying gas at Costco. That $65
membership also gets us $5 chickens.
Gasoline engines are so inefficient that it's better to use a
small gas engine to generate electricity to power electric motors
than to power the wheels directly. My son was driving his
girlfriend's hybrid today. We were parked and he had the AC on.
That was unnerving to see that but I think it's going to be a
thing in this new age.
EVs use a heat pump for heater/AC. They are reasonably efficient, considering.
Gas cars have the "advantage" of abundant waste heat for running the heater, exactly because they are so inefficient. The AC compressor
is powered off the engine, so it has to be in the engine
compartment. So your AC is trying to move heat from the cabin into
the already-hot engine compartment on a hot day, which is a whole
'nother layer of inefficiency.
Heater? What's a "heater."
Ha ha, just kidding - but not really.
On Sat, 14 Feb 2026 21:33:12 -0600
bud-- <null@void.com> wrote:
On 2/14/2026 12:37 PM, Mars Sellus wrote:
On Fri, 13 Feb 2026 21:39:01 -0600
bud-- <null@void.com> wrote:
On 2/13/2026 11:19 AM, Mars Sellus wrote:
On Fri, 13 Feb 2026 10:52:28 -0500
Ed P <esp@snet.n> wrote:
On 2/13/2026 10:41 AM, Bryan Simmons wrote:
On 2/13/2026 9:12 AM, Mars Sellus wrote:
On Thu, 12 Feb 2026 20:29:28 -0600>
Bryan Simmons <bryangsimmons@gmail.com> wrote:
The ICE of a hybrid should almost never be stressed, so the
engine should last virtually forever, and oil changes could be >>>>>>>>> infrequent.
Less so the starter motor which has a regular and tough duty
cycle.
Yes, ans the starter motor, though I would think that would only >>>>>>> be used when the car is stopped, or when the ICE is used for
added acceleration for a slow speed, but I don't know the
workings of the system.
With ISG, the first thing that comes up is wearing out the
starter motor. They are nothing like the ones on the normal
engine, these are made to be much more rugged and used
frequently.
Regardless:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-xzjo66ifg
Hybrids change the equation. In a full hybrid like a Toyota Prius
or Ford Escape Hybrid, the gas engine only runs when needed: to
boost power, recharge the battery, or drive the wheels at higher
speeds. That means the engine can start and stop dozens of times
in a single commute. Every restart demands instant oil pressure,
reliable fuel delivery, and consistent sparkrCooften under
cooler-than-optimal conditions.
I have a Prius. You are out of touch with reality. The car starts
from an engine-off stop with a traction motor till about 20 mph.
The engine then starts on another traction motor. The car is then
seldom powered by just battery. The electric adds to the gas
engine. The battery is to capture the kinetic energy of a stop
(regeneration), keep the engine operating at an efficient point
(controlling driving and added power for charging) and can add
drive power.
but it still requires far higher duty cycleA Prius does not have a starter motor. The engine is started by one
starter motors. >>
of the traction motors. That motor moves the car but also starts the
engine. "You think that motor has a starter wear problem?"
Two traction motors, the engine, and the wheels are all combined in a
planetary drive. No gear shifting or variable pitch pulleys. Both
traction motors can move the car (or act as generators).
Duty cycle must be accordingly high regardless.
Go argue with AI then.
Yea - AI is known to be so accurate. And you are such a fine
interpreter.
Nothing to interpret, it is as it reads.
AI Overview
Starter Motors for Toyota Prius V
The Toyota Prius does not have a traditional starter motor or
alternator; it uses a high-voltage motor-generator (MG1) inside the
transaxle to spin the engine, powered by the hybrid battery. A 12V
battery is still used to energize the system, and a "ready" light or
click indicates it is active.
Iow, a starter motor by any other name is still a starter motor.
One of the two traction motors that drive the car is also used to
start the car. It is not a starter motor. Your AI does not disagree
with that. You are remarkable dense.
It is being used to start it, ergo...
Both traction motors move the car. They also both act as generators.But many/most other hybrids /do have/ starter motor fatigue to contend
The small traction motor occasionally spends a couple seconds
starting the engine. The Prius does not have "far higher duty cycle
starter motors."
On Sun, 15 Feb 2026 17:20:02 GMT
dsi1 <user4746@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
Roger Rhino <not@my.home> posted:
dsi1 <user4746@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
Bryan Simmons <bryangsimmons@gmail.com> posted:
On 2/11/2026 5:31 AM, redacted wrote:
On 2/10/26 22:28, Roger Rhino wrote:
(...)
Ed P<esp@snet.n> wrote:You should consider an EV. They are simple and
Given the complexity of new cars, I won't own one out of
warranty
low-maintenance, and easier & way more fun to drive than
gasbangers. Electricity is also a lot cheaper than gas.
For most people, there's not a very good case for gas cars.
Electric cars are the future, not the present.
I'll wait another decade or two.The most practical cars are hybrids. Better yet, plug in
hybrid. If I were buying a new car, I can't think of one I'd
prefer over this.
https://www.lexus.com/models/NX-PHEV?trim=nxphev-2 For a second
car, this. https://www.toyota.com/priuspluginhybrid/
I may never buy another car though. We own an old Yaris that
gets decent mileage for around town, an Infiniti for longer
trips and an old beater Acura RDX with 200K+ miles that's
mostly for camping or snow. The Infiniti is great, but it
guzzles 93 octane. Not that bad these days because gas is
cheap, but a dew years ago premium was like $4.50, and it cost
$70 to fill up that thing.
We save $200-$300 a year buying gas at Costco. That $65
membership also gets us $5 chickens.
Gasoline engines are so inefficient that it's better to use a
small gas engine to generate electricity to power electric motors
than to power the wheels directly. My son was driving his
girlfriend's hybrid today. We were parked and he had the AC on.
That was unnerving to see that but I think it's going to be a
thing in this new age.
EVs use a heat pump for heater/AC. They are reasonably efficient, considering.
Gas cars have the "advantage" of abundant waste heat for running the heater, exactly because they are so inefficient. The AC compressor
is powered off the engine, so it has to be in the engine
compartment. So your AC is trying to move heat from the cabin into
the already-hot engine compartment on a hot day, which is a whole
'nother layer of inefficiency.
Heater? What's a "heater."
Ha ha, just kidding - but not really.
Where you live rolled up windows ad a sunny day handle it all, true?
On Sun, 15 Feb 2026 12:20:16 -0600
bud-- <null@void.com> wrote:
Both traction motors move the car. They also both act as generators.
The small traction motor occasionally spends a couple seconds
starting the engine. The Prius does not have "far higher duty cycle
starter motors."
But many/most other hybrids /do have/ starter motor fatigue to contend
with.
It's a thing you and your Prius won't have to deal with, so quit
pretending your vehicle's architecture reflects that of all others,
capisce?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eC5FFoCq4s
Hybrid vehicles are uniquely challenging due to the frequent engine start/stops, as well as lower overall engine temperatures, which can
lead to water and fuel dilution.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-xzjo66ifg
Hybrid vehicles deliver a brilliant mix of electric efficiency and gas-powered range. But beneath that seamless driving experience is a gas engine working in ways it was never designed for... constant stops and starts. Those frequent restarts bring unique demands that can lead to premature hybrid engine wear and sludge buildup, often leaving owners confused when issues appear.
In a traditional internal combustion engine (ICE), the process is simple. The engine starts when you turn the key and runs until you shut it off. That means predictable lubrication, steady heat, and consistent combustion.
Hybrids change the equation. In a full hybrid like a Toyota Prius or Ford Escape Hybrid, the gas engine only runs when needed: to boost power, recharge the battery, or drive the wheels at higher speeds. That means the engine can start and stop dozens of times in a single commute. Every restart demands instant oil pressure, reliable fuel delivery, and consistent sparkrCooften under cooler-than-optimal conditions.
Why Limited Run Time Matters
The bigger concern isnrCOt just the restart, itrCOs the lack of sustained engine operation. ICE engines are designed to reach a specific temperature range, where heat boils off water vapor, fuel dilution, and combustion byproducts in the crankcase.
In a hybrid, the engine might only run for 30 seconds here or a minute there, never reaching that sweet spot. That lets moisture stay in the oil longer, leading to:
Oil degradation;
Sludge formation;
Acidic buildup;
Corrosion;
Shortened engine life.
Combine that with ultra-low viscosity oils like 0W-16 or 0W-20, and the risk of accelerated hybrid engine wear rises if maintenance is skipped.
Built to Handle Stop-Start Stress
Automakers know hybrids face these challenges. Many use upgraded starters, stronger ignition systems, and synthetic oils designed for stop-start duty. Some even feature electric oil pumps or pressurized reservoirs to keep lubrication steady during restart events.
Still, no system is immune to neglect. Without the right maintenance, hybrids can face issues that shorten engine life and lead to costly repairs.
Maintenance Tips to Avoid Hybrid Engine Wear
Shops can protect hybrid customers with a few smart practices:
Recommend shorter oil change intervals, especially for vehicles driven mainly on short trips.
Use high-quality synthetic oils that resist moisture contamination.
Inspect the PCV system frequently; a bad valve accelerates sludge problems.
Watch for milky residue on dipsticks or under oil capsrCoa classic sign of water in the oil.
Educate customers: just because the engine doesnrCOt always run doesnrCOt mean the oil isnrCOt aging.
The Hidden Reality of Hybrid Engine Wear
Hybrids may sip fuel and run quietly, but their engines endure start-stop abuse that makes conventional driving look easy. As more hybrids age out of warranty and enter independent shops, recognizing and addressing these stressors is essential.
So next time a hybrid rolls in, look past the OBD codes. Consider the enginerCOs lifestyle, constant interruptions, and remember that itrCOs counting on you to keep it alive.
Do hybrid cars have a starter motor?
Mild hybrids commonly have an engine starter motor that can also
function as an electricity generator (known as a starter-generator), so
after starting the engine, the same unit can also send energy back into
the car's battery, which is usually a 48-volt unit rather than 12
volts.Jan 6, 2025
Hybrids Using Starter Motors/Belt-Integrated Starters (BISG)
Jeep: Wrangler (2019-2020), Grand Cherokee, and Wagoneer with eTorque systems.
Ram: 1500 with eTorque.
Audi: A8, A7, and Q5 45 TFSI (12V/48V MHEV).
Fiat: 500 Hybrid, Panda Hybrid (using BSG).
General Motors (BAS System): Saturn Aura Green Line, Saturn Vue Green Line, Chevrolet Malibu (2008-2014), Buick LaCrosse/Regal (2012-2014), Chevrolet Impala (2014), and Chevrolet Silverado/GMC Sierra (2016, California only).
Wikipedia
Wikipedia
These vehicles often use a 36-volt or 48-volt motor-generator unit
connected by a belt to the engine to act as a starter, providing rapid starting for stop-start technology.
You won't trust GooGoo's AI?contend with.
No reliable source.
But great advance - a Prius does not have a starter.Yes, that's been fully sussed already.
Yet the discussion is NOT about merely one model, even yours.It's a thing you and your Prius won't have to deal with, so quit
pretending your vehicle's architecture reflects that of all others, capisce?
No pretending on my part.
Almost all my comments have been about Prius.
Maybe you could stop pretending you know what you are talking about.After you quit trying to make this a brand-specific soliloquy, sure...
Capisce?
Yes it is:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eC5FFoCq4s
"This video isn't available anymore."
Babcox MediaHybrid vehicles are uniquely challenging due to the frequent engine start/stops, as well as lower overall engine temperatures, which can
lead to water and fuel dilution.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-xzjo66ifg
Mist of what follows comes from this video.
The video is professionally made. Who funded it? Why?
The video specifically says it applies to Prius and Ford Escape.Where?
It has little to do with a Prius.It showed one, that's about all. It is generic hybrid analysis.
A Prius does not have a starter.That's nice, are you going to keep repeating that ad nauseum?
Consumer Reports in its car issue (which I got 4 days ago) getsYes, so?
maintenance information from readers.
For a wide variety of carCR has become rather lax in their standards since they changed their
models it publishes that information in 15 maintenance categories for
the last 8 years for each model. For a Prius all engine/hybrid
related categories are the best for 8 years. For some other random
models the ratings are the best for the last 4 to 8 years - Toyota
RAV, Toyota Camray, Lexus NX, Honda CR-V, Honda Accord. All are
recommended to buy.
Wouldn't happen if the horror scenarios below applied.Of course it could and has.
Apparently.Hybrid vehicles deliver a brilliant mix of electric efficiency and gas-powered range. But beneath that seamless driving experience is
a gas engine working in ways it was never designed for... constant
stops and starts. Those frequent restarts bring unique demands that
can lead to premature hybrid engine wear and sludge buildup, often
leaving owners confused when issues appear.
In a traditional internal combustion engine (ICE), the process is
simple. The engine starts when you turn the key and runs until you
shut it off. That means predictable lubrication, steady heat, and consistent combustion.
Hybrids change the equation. In a full hybrid like a Toyota Prius
or Ford Escape Hybrid, the gas engine only runs when needed: to
boost power, recharge the battery, or drive the wheels at higher
speeds. That means the engine can start and stop dozens of times in
a single commute. Every restart demands instant oil pressure,
reliable fuel delivery, and consistent sparkrCooften under cooler-than-optimal conditions.
Why Limited Run Time Matters
The bigger concern isnrCOt just the restart, itrCOs the lack of
sustained engine operation. ICE engines are designed to reach a
specific temperature range, where heat boils off water vapor, fuel dilution, and combustion byproducts in the crankcase.
In a hybrid, the engine might only run for 30 seconds here or a
minute there, never reaching that sweet spot. That lets moisture
stay in the oil longer, leading to:
Oil degradation;
Sludge formation;
Acidic buildup;
Corrosion;
Shortened engine life.
Combine that with ultra-low viscosity oils like 0W-16 or 0W-20, and
the risk of accelerated hybrid engine wear rises if maintenance is
skipped.
Built to Handle Stop-Start Stress
Automakers know hybrids face these challenges. Many use upgraded
starters, stronger ignition systems, and synthetic oils designed
for stop-start duty. Some even feature electric oil pumps or
pressurized reservoirs to keep lubrication steady during restart
events.
Still, no system is immune to neglect. Without the right
maintenance, hybrids can face issues that shorten engine life and
lead to costly repairs.
Maintenance Tips to Avoid Hybrid Engine Wear
Shops can protect hybrid customers with a few smart practices:
Recommend shorter oil change intervals, especially for vehicles
driven mainly on short trips.
Use high-quality synthetic oils that resist moisture contamination.
Inspect the PCV system frequently; a bad valve accelerates sludge
problems.
Watch for milky residue on dipsticks or under oil capsrCoa classic
sign of water in the oil.
Educate customers: just because the engine doesnrCOt always run
doesnrCOt mean the oil isnrCOt aging.
The Hidden Reality of Hybrid Engine Wear
Hybrids may sip fuel and run quietly, but their engines endure
start-stop abuse that makes conventional driving look easy. As more
hybrids age out of warranty and enter independent shops,
recognizing and addressing these stressors is essential.
So next time a hybrid rolls in, look past the OBD codes. Consider
the enginerCOs lifestyle, constant interruptions, and remember that
itrCOs counting on you to keep it alive.
====================================
Do hybrid cars have a starter motor?
Are they hybrids?
Does an electric motor provide some of the propulsion?It is a hybrid, so...
Not concerned with what you would call anything frankly.Mild hybrids commonly have an engine starter motor that can also
function as an electricity generator (known as a
starter-generator), so after starting the engine, the same unit can
also send energy back into the car's battery, which is usually a
48-volt unit rather than 12 volts.Jan 6, 2025
Doesn't sound like what I would call a hybrid.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_electric_vehicle>
"a type of hybrid vehicle that couples a conventional internal
combustion engine (ICE) with one or more electric engines into a
combined propulsion system"
Hybrids Using Starter Motors/Belt-Integrated Starters (BISG)
Jeep: Wrangler (2019-2020), Grand Cherokee, and Wagoneer with
eTorque systems. Ram: 1500 with eTorque.
Audi: A8, A7, and Q5 45 TFSI (12V/48V MHEV).
Fiat: 500 Hybrid, Panda Hybrid (using BSG).
General Motors (BAS System): Saturn Aura Green Line, Saturn Vue
Green Line, Chevrolet Malibu (2008-2014), Buick LaCrosse/Regal
(2012-2014), Chevrolet Impala (2014), and Chevrolet Silverado/GMC
Sierra (2016, California only). Wikipedia Wikipedia These vehicles
often use a 36-volt or 48-volt motor-generator unit connected by a
belt to the engine to act as a starter, providing rapid starting
for stop-start technology.
Mars Sellus <zed@is.dead> posted:
On Sun, 15 Feb 2026 17:20:02 GMT
dsi1 <user4746@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
Roger Rhino <not@my.home> posted:
dsi1 <user4746@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
Bryan Simmons <bryangsimmons@gmail.com> posted:
On 2/11/2026 5:31 AM, redacted wrote:
On 2/10/26 22:28, Roger Rhino wrote:
(...)
Ed P<esp@snet.n> wrote:You should consider an EV. They are simple and
Given the complexity of new cars, I won't own one out
of warranty
low-maintenance, and easier & way more fun to drive than
gasbangers. Electricity is also a lot cheaper than gas.
For most people, there's not a very good case for gas
cars.
Electric cars are the future, not the present.
I'll wait another decade or two.The most practical cars are hybrids. Better yet, plug in
hybrid. If I were buying a new car, I can't think of one I'd
prefer over this. https://www.lexus.com/models/NX-PHEV?trim=nxphev-2 For a
second car, this. https://www.toyota.com/priuspluginhybrid/
I may never buy another car though. We own an old Yaris that
gets decent mileage for around town, an Infiniti for longer
trips and an old beater Acura RDX with 200K+ miles that's
mostly for camping or snow. The Infiniti is great, but it
guzzles 93 octane. Not that bad these days because gas is
cheap, but a dew years ago premium was like $4.50, and it
cost $70 to fill up that thing.
We save $200-$300 a year buying gas at Costco. That $65
membership also gets us $5 chickens.
Gasoline engines are so inefficient that it's better to use a
small gas engine to generate electricity to power electric
motors than to power the wheels directly. My son was driving
his girlfriend's hybrid today. We were parked and he had the
AC on. That was unnerving to see that but I think it's going
to be a thing in this new age.
EVs use a heat pump for heater/AC. They are reasonably
efficient, considering.
Gas cars have the "advantage" of abundant waste heat for
running the heater, exactly because they are so inefficient.
The AC compressor is powered off the engine, so it has to be in
the engine compartment. So your AC is trying to move heat from
the cabin into the already-hot engine compartment on a hot day,
which is a whole 'nother layer of inefficiency.
Heater? What's a "heater."
Ha ha, just kidding - but not really.
Where you live rolled up windows ad a sunny day handle it all, true?
Going to a club meeting afforded me the opportunity to drive by
myself at night with the windows down and moonroof open while playing
Jimi Hendrix loud on the CD. The fidelity of the system allowed me to
hear Jimi's fingers on the strings. It was just a short drive but
what a pleasure that was. Alas, those nights are of the past.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5Lvc1a76dU
On Mon, 16 Feb 2026 05:14:24 GMT
dsi1 <user4746@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
Mars Sellus <zed@is.dead> posted:
On Sun, 15 Feb 2026 17:20:02 GMT
dsi1 <user4746@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
Roger Rhino <not@my.home> posted:
dsi1 <user4746@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
Bryan Simmons <bryangsimmons@gmail.com> posted:
On 2/11/2026 5:31 AM, redacted wrote:
On 2/10/26 22:28, Roger Rhino wrote:
(...)
Ed P<esp@snet.n> wrote:You should consider an EV. They are simple and
Given the complexity of new cars, I won't own one out
of warranty
low-maintenance, and easier & way more fun to drive than
gasbangers. Electricity is also a lot cheaper than gas.
For most people, there's not a very good case for gas
cars.
Electric cars are the future, not the present.
I'll wait another decade or two.The most practical cars are hybrids. Better yet, plug in
hybrid. If I were buying a new car, I can't think of one I'd prefer over this. https://www.lexus.com/models/NX-PHEV?trim=nxphev-2 For a
second car, this. https://www.toyota.com/priuspluginhybrid/
I may never buy another car though. We own an old Yaris that
gets decent mileage for around town, an Infiniti for longer
trips and an old beater Acura RDX with 200K+ miles that's
mostly for camping or snow. The Infiniti is great, but it
guzzles 93 octane. Not that bad these days because gas is
cheap, but a dew years ago premium was like $4.50, and it
cost $70 to fill up that thing.
We save $200-$300 a year buying gas at Costco. That $65 membership also gets us $5 chickens.
Gasoline engines are so inefficient that it's better to use a
small gas engine to generate electricity to power electric
motors than to power the wheels directly. My son was driving
his girlfriend's hybrid today. We were parked and he had the
AC on. That was unnerving to see that but I think it's going
to be a thing in this new age.
EVs use a heat pump for heater/AC. They are reasonably
efficient, considering.
Gas cars have the "advantage" of abundant waste heat for
running the heater, exactly because they are so inefficient.
The AC compressor is powered off the engine, so it has to be in
the engine compartment. So your AC is trying to move heat from
the cabin into the already-hot engine compartment on a hot day,
which is a whole 'nother layer of inefficiency.
Heater? What's a "heater."
Ha ha, just kidding - but not really.
Where you live rolled up windows ad a sunny day handle it all, true?
Going to a club meeting afforded me the opportunity to drive by
myself at night with the windows down and moonroof open while playing
Jimi Hendrix loud on the CD. The fidelity of the system allowed me to
hear Jimi's fingers on the strings. It was just a short drive but
what a pleasure that was. Alas, those nights are of the past.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5Lvc1a76dU
And his somewhat jazzier side too:
https://youtu.be/Ra4wknxx4Eg?list=RDRa4wknxx4Eg
Mars Sellus <zed@is.dead> posted:
On Mon, 16 Feb 2026 05:14:24 GMT
dsi1 <user4746@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
Mars Sellus <zed@is.dead> posted:
On Sun, 15 Feb 2026 17:20:02 GMT
dsi1 <user4746@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
Roger Rhino <not@my.home> posted:
dsi1 <user4746@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
Bryan Simmons <bryangsimmons@gmail.com> posted:
On 2/11/2026 5:31 AM, redacted wrote:
On 2/10/26 22:28, Roger Rhino wrote:
(...)
Ed P<esp@snet.n> wrote:You should consider an EV. They are simple and
Given the complexity of new cars, I won't own one
out of warranty
low-maintenance, and easier & way more fun to drive
than gasbangers. Electricity is also a lot cheaper
than gas.
For most people, there's not a very good case for gas
cars.
Electric cars are the future, not the present.
I'll wait another decade or two.The most practical cars are hybrids. Better yet, plug in hybrid. If I were buying a new car, I can't think of
one I'd prefer over this. https://www.lexus.com/models/NX-PHEV?trim=nxphev-2 For a
second car, this.
https://www.toyota.com/priuspluginhybrid/
I may never buy another car though. We own an old Yaris
that gets decent mileage for around town, an Infiniti
for longer trips and an old beater Acura RDX with 200K+
miles that's mostly for camping or snow. The Infiniti
is great, but it guzzles 93 octane. Not that bad these
days because gas is cheap, but a dew years ago premium
was like $4.50, and it cost $70 to fill up that thing.
We save $200-$300 a year buying gas at Costco. That $65 membership also gets us $5 chickens.
Gasoline engines are so inefficient that it's better to
use a small gas engine to generate electricity to power
electric motors than to power the wheels directly. My son
was driving his girlfriend's hybrid today. We were parked
and he had the AC on. That was unnerving to see that but
I think it's going to be a thing in this new age.
EVs use a heat pump for heater/AC. They are reasonably
efficient, considering.
Gas cars have the "advantage" of abundant waste heat for
running the heater, exactly because they are so inefficient.
The AC compressor is powered off the engine, so it has to
be in the engine compartment. So your AC is trying to move
heat from the cabin into the already-hot engine compartment
on a hot day, which is a whole 'nother layer of
inefficiency.
Heater? What's a "heater."
Ha ha, just kidding - but not really.
Where you live rolled up windows ad a sunny day handle it all,
true?
Going to a club meeting afforded me the opportunity to drive by
myself at night with the windows down and moonroof open while
playing Jimi Hendrix loud on the CD. The fidelity of the system
allowed me to hear Jimi's fingers on the strings. It was just a
short drive but what a pleasure that was. Alas, those nights are
of the past.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5Lvc1a76dU
And his somewhat jazzier side too:
https://youtu.be/Ra4wknxx4Eg?list=RDRa4wknxx4Eg
Here's the new jazz/rock/funk/groove/??? music. I love these guys.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7OIc-DBRXM
Mars Sellus <zed@is.dead> posted:
Going to a club meeting afforded me the opportunity to drive by
myself at night with the windows down and moonroof open while playing
Jimi Hendrix loud on the CD. The fidelity of the system allowed me to
hear Jimi's fingers on the strings. It was just a short drive but
what a pleasure that was. Alas, those nights are of the past.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5Lvc1a76dU
And his somewhat jazzier side too:
https://youtu.be/Ra4wknxx4Eg?list=RDRa4wknxx4Eg
Here's the new jazz/rock/funk/groove/??? music. I love these guys.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7OIc-DBRXM
dsi1 <user4746@newsgrouper.org.invalid> writes:
Mars Sellus <zed@is.dead> posted:
Going to a club meeting afforded me the opportunity to drive by
myself at night with the windows down and moonroof open while
playing Jimi Hendrix loud on the CD. The fidelity of the system
allowed me to hear Jimi's fingers on the strings. It was just a
short drive but what a pleasure that was. Alas, those nights are
of the past.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5Lvc1a76dU
And his somewhat jazzier side too:
https://youtu.be/Ra4wknxx4Eg?list=RDRa4wknxx4Eg
Here's the new jazz/rock/funk/groove/??? music. I love these guys.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7OIc-DBRXM
Jazzy/funky/fusion:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Haaf2TKYUuc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yk_U3VTi3HE
On Wed, 18 Feb 2026 19:35:50 GMT
dsi1 <user4746@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
Mars Sellus <zed@is.dead> posted:
On Mon, 16 Feb 2026 05:14:24 GMT
dsi1 <user4746@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
Mars Sellus <zed@is.dead> posted:
On Sun, 15 Feb 2026 17:20:02 GMT
dsi1 <user4746@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
Roger Rhino <not@my.home> posted:
dsi1 <user4746@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
Bryan Simmons <bryangsimmons@gmail.com> posted:
On 2/11/2026 5:31 AM, redacted wrote:
On 2/10/26 22:28, Roger Rhino wrote:
(...)
Ed P<esp@snet.n> wrote:You should consider an EV. They are simple and
Given the complexity of new cars, I won't own one
out of warranty
low-maintenance, and easier & way more fun to drive
than gasbangers. Electricity is also a lot cheaper
than gas.
For most people, there's not a very good case for gas
cars.
Electric cars are the future, not the present.
I'll wait another decade or two.The most practical cars are hybrids. Better yet, plug in hybrid. If I were buying a new car, I can't think of
one I'd prefer over this. https://www.lexus.com/models/NX-PHEV?trim=nxphev-2 For a second car, this.
https://www.toyota.com/priuspluginhybrid/
I may never buy another car though. We own an old Yaris
that gets decent mileage for around town, an Infiniti
for longer trips and an old beater Acura RDX with 200K+
miles that's mostly for camping or snow. The Infiniti
is great, but it guzzles 93 octane. Not that bad these
days because gas is cheap, but a dew years ago premium
was like $4.50, and it cost $70 to fill up that thing.
We save $200-$300 a year buying gas at Costco. That $65 membership also gets us $5 chickens.
Gasoline engines are so inefficient that it's better to
use a small gas engine to generate electricity to power electric motors than to power the wheels directly. My son
was driving his girlfriend's hybrid today. We were parked
and he had the AC on. That was unnerving to see that but
I think it's going to be a thing in this new age.
EVs use a heat pump for heater/AC. They are reasonably efficient, considering.
Gas cars have the "advantage" of abundant waste heat for
running the heater, exactly because they are so inefficient.
The AC compressor is powered off the engine, so it has to
be in the engine compartment. So your AC is trying to move
heat from the cabin into the already-hot engine compartment
on a hot day, which is a whole 'nother layer of
inefficiency.
Heater? What's a "heater."
Ha ha, just kidding - but not really.
Where you live rolled up windows ad a sunny day handle it all,
true?
Going to a club meeting afforded me the opportunity to drive by
myself at night with the windows down and moonroof open while
playing Jimi Hendrix loud on the CD. The fidelity of the system
allowed me to hear Jimi's fingers on the strings. It was just a
short drive but what a pleasure that was. Alas, those nights are
of the past.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5Lvc1a76dU
And his somewhat jazzier side too:
https://youtu.be/Ra4wknxx4Eg?list=RDRa4wknxx4Eg
Here's the new jazz/rock/funk/groove/??? music. I love these guys.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7OIc-DBRXM
A riot of polka dots, like Buddy Guy tripping out on Zappa!
How about some electro-swing:
https://youtu.be/1RaKSRU60bw?list=RD1RaKSRU60bw
dsi1 <user4746@newsgrouper.org.invalid> writes:
Mars Sellus <zed@is.dead> posted:
Going to a club meeting afforded me the opportunity to drive by
myself at night with the windows down and moonroof open while playing
Jimi Hendrix loud on the CD. The fidelity of the system allowed me to
hear Jimi's fingers on the strings. It was just a short drive but
what a pleasure that was. Alas, those nights are of the past.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5Lvc1a76dU
And his somewhat jazzier side too:
https://youtu.be/Ra4wknxx4Eg?list=RDRa4wknxx4Eg
Here's the new jazz/rock/funk/groove/??? music. I love these guys.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7OIc-DBRXM
Jazzy/funky/fusion:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Haaf2TKYUuc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yk_U3VTi3HE
Mars Sellus <zed@is.dead> posted:
On Wed, 18 Feb 2026 19:35:50 GMT
dsi1 <user4746@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
Mars Sellus <zed@is.dead> posted:
On Mon, 16 Feb 2026 05:14:24 GMT
dsi1 <user4746@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
Mars Sellus <zed@is.dead> posted:
On Sun, 15 Feb 2026 17:20:02 GMT
dsi1 <user4746@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
Roger Rhino <not@my.home> posted:
dsi1 <user4746@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
Bryan Simmons <bryangsimmons@gmail.com> posted:
On 2/11/2026 5:31 AM, redacted wrote:
On 2/10/26 22:28, Roger Rhino wrote:
(...)
Ed P<esp@snet.n> wrote:You should consider an EV. They are simple and
Given the complexity of new cars, I won't own
one out of warranty
low-maintenance, and easier & way more fun to
drive than gasbangers. Electricity is also a
lot cheaper than gas.
For most people, there's not a very good case
for gas cars.
Electric cars are the future, not the present.
I'll wait another decade or two.The most practical cars are hybrids. Better yet,
plug in hybrid. If I were buying a new car, I can't
think of one I'd prefer over this. https://www.lexus.com/models/NX-PHEV?trim=nxphev-2
For a second car, this. https://www.toyota.com/priuspluginhybrid/
I may never buy another car though. We own an old
Yaris that gets decent mileage for around town, an
Infiniti for longer trips and an old beater Acura
RDX with 200K+ miles that's mostly for camping or
snow. The Infiniti is great, but it guzzles 93
octane. Not that bad these days because gas is
cheap, but a dew years ago premium was like $4.50,
and it cost $70 to fill up that thing.
We save $200-$300 a year buying gas at Costco. That
$65 membership also gets us $5 chickens.
Gasoline engines are so inefficient that it's better
to use a small gas engine to generate electricity to
power electric motors than to power the wheels
directly. My son was driving his girlfriend's hybrid
today. We were parked and he had the AC on. That was unnerving to see that but I think it's going to be a
thing in this new age.
EVs use a heat pump for heater/AC. They are reasonably efficient, considering.
Gas cars have the "advantage" of abundant waste heat for running the heater, exactly because they are so
inefficient. The AC compressor is powered off the
engine, so it has to be in the engine compartment. So
your AC is trying to move heat from the cabin into the already-hot engine compartment on a hot day, which is a
whole 'nother layer of inefficiency.
Heater? What's a "heater."
Ha ha, just kidding - but not really.
Where you live rolled up windows ad a sunny day handle it
all, true?
Going to a club meeting afforded me the opportunity to drive
by myself at night with the windows down and moonroof open
while playing Jimi Hendrix loud on the CD. The fidelity of
the system allowed me to hear Jimi's fingers on the strings.
It was just a short drive but what a pleasure that was. Alas,
those nights are of the past.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5Lvc1a76dU
And his somewhat jazzier side too:
https://youtu.be/Ra4wknxx4Eg?list=RDRa4wknxx4Eg
Here's the new jazz/rock/funk/groove/??? music. I love these guys.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7OIc-DBRXM
A riot of polka dots, like Buddy Guy tripping out on Zappa!
How about some electro-swing:
https://youtu.be/1RaKSRU60bw?list=RD1RaKSRU60bw
Dancing robots can be fun but I suppose that one day, we'll see
robots with swords running towards us. This is why my plan is to
never leave the house in the future.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUmlv814aJo
On Mon, 16 Feb 2026 16:24:43 -0600
bud-- <null@void.com> wrote:
ut many/most other hybrids /do have/ starter motor fatigue to
contend with.
No reliable source.
You won't trust GooGoo's AI?
"High-Duty Cycle Fatigue: The engine in a hybrid stops and starts
dozens of times per commute. This subjects the starter system and
engine components to significantly more start-stop cycles than a
traditional vehicle, potentially causing earlier wear on bearings and
starter motor insulation. Electrical Strain: The starter system in
hybrids may suffer from electrical "fatigue" due to inrush current
surges, which can be 5rCo10 times the rated current, accelerating the breakdown of electrical insulation and motor efficiency.
But great advance - a Prius does not have a starter.
Yes, that's been fully sussed already.
It's a thing you and your Prius won't have to deal with, so quit
pretending your vehicle's architecture reflects that of all others,
capisce?
No pretending on my part.
Almost all my comments have been about Prius.
Yet the discussion is NOT about merely one model, even yours.
Maybe you could stop pretending you know what you are talking about.
Capisce?
After you quit trying to make this a brand-specific soliloquy, sure...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eC5FFoCq4s
"This video isn't available anymore."
Yes it is:
Sign in to confirm yourCOre not a bot
This helps protect our community. Learn more
Sign in
Hybrid vehicles are uniquely challenging due to the frequent engine
start/stops, as well as lower overall engine temperatures, which can
lead to water and fuel dilution.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-xzjo66ifg
The video specifically says it applies to Prius and Ford Escape.
Where?
It has little to do with a Prius.
It showed one, that's about all. It is generic hybrid analysis.
A Prius does not have a starter.
That's nice, are you going to keep repeating that ad nauseum?
Consumer Reports in its car issue (which I got 4 days ago) gets
maintenance information from readers.
Yes, so?
For a wide variety of car
models it publishes that information in 15 maintenance categories for
the last 8 years for each model. For a Prius all engine/hybrid
related categories are the best for 8 years. For some other random
models the ratings are the best for the last 4 to 8 years - Toyota
RAV, Toyota Camray, Lexus NX, Honda CR-V, Honda Accord. All are
recommended to buy.
CR has become rather lax in their standards since they changed their weighting and reporting iconography.
Today's CR bears little in common with preceding decades testing, to
their detriment.
Then again at least they're not JD (useless) Power...
Wouldn't happen if the horror scenarios below applied.
Of course it could and has.
Hybrid vehicles deliver a brilliant mix of electric efficiency and
gas-powered range. But beneath that seamless driving experience is
a gas engine working in ways it was never designed for... constant
stops and starts. Those frequent restarts bring unique demands that
can lead to premature hybrid engine wear and sludge buildup, often
leaving owners confused when issues appear.
In a traditional internal combustion engine (ICE), the process is
simple. The engine starts when you turn the key and runs until you
shut it off. That means predictable lubrication, steady heat, and
consistent combustion.
Hybrids change the equation. In a full hybrid like a Toyota Prius
or Ford Escape Hybrid, the gas engine only runs when needed: to
boost power, recharge the battery, or drive the wheels at higher
speeds. That means the engine can start and stop dozens of times in
a single commute. Every restart demands instant oil pressure,
reliable fuel delivery, and consistent sparkrCooften under
cooler-than-optimal conditions.
Why Limited Run Time Matters
The bigger concern isnrCOt just the restart, itrCOs the lack of
sustained engine operation. ICE engines are designed to reach a
specific temperature range, where heat boils off water vapor, fuel
dilution, and combustion byproducts in the crankcase.
In a hybrid, the engine might only run for 30 seconds here or a
minute there, never reaching that sweet spot. That lets moisture
stay in the oil longer, leading to:
Oil degradation;
Sludge formation;
Acidic buildup;
Corrosion;
Shortened engine life.
Combine that with ultra-low viscosity oils like 0W-16 or 0W-20, and
the risk of accelerated hybrid engine wear rises if maintenance is
skipped.
Built to Handle Stop-Start Stress
Automakers know hybrids face these challenges. Many use upgraded
starters, stronger ignition systems, and synthetic oils designed
for stop-start duty. Some even feature electric oil pumps or
pressurized reservoirs to keep lubrication steady during restart
events.
Still, no system is immune to neglect. Without the right
maintenance, hybrids can face issues that shorten engine life and
lead to costly repairs.
Maintenance Tips to Avoid Hybrid Engine Wear
Shops can protect hybrid customers with a few smart practices:
Recommend shorter oil change intervals, especially for vehicles
driven mainly on short trips.
Use high-quality synthetic oils that resist moisture contamination.
Inspect the PCV system frequently; a bad valve accelerates sludge
problems.
Watch for milky residue on dipsticks or under oil capsrCoa classic
sign of water in the oil.
Educate customers: just because the engine doesnrCOt always run
doesnrCOt mean the oil isnrCOt aging.
The Hidden Reality of Hybrid Engine Wear
Hybrids may sip fuel and run quietly, but their engines endure
start-stop abuse that makes conventional driving look easy. As more
hybrids age out of warranty and enter independent shops,
recognizing and addressing these stressors is essential.
So next time a hybrid rolls in, look past the OBD codes. Consider
the enginerCOs lifestyle, constant interruptions, and remember that
itrCOs counting on you to keep it alive.
====================================
Do hybrid cars have a starter motor?
Are they hybrids?
Apparently.
Does an electric motor provide some of the propulsion?
It is a hybrid, so...
Mild hybrids commonly have an engine starter motor that can also
function as an electricity generator (known as a
starter-generator), so after starting the engine, the same unit can
also send energy back into the car's battery, which is usually a
48-volt unit rather than 12 volts.Jan 6, 2025
Doesn't sound like what I would call a hybrid.
Not concerned with what you would call anything frankly.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_electric_vehicle>
"a type of hybrid vehicle that couples a conventional internal
combustion engine (ICE) with one or more electric engines into a
combined propulsion system"
Hybrids Using Starter Motors/Belt-Integrated Starters (BISG)
Jeep: Wrangler (2019-2020), Grand Cherokee, and Wagoneer with
eTorque systems. Ram: 1500 with eTorque.
Audi: A8, A7, and Q5 45 TFSI (12V/48V MHEV).
Fiat: 500 Hybrid, Panda Hybrid (using BSG).
General Motors (BAS System): Saturn Aura Green Line, Saturn Vue
Green Line, Chevrolet Malibu (2008-2014), Buick LaCrosse/Regal
(2012-2014), Chevrolet Impala (2014), and Chevrolet Silverado/GMC
Sierra (2016, California only). Wikipedia Wikipedia These vehicles
often use a 36-volt or 48-volt motor-generator unit connected by a
belt to the engine to act as a starter, providing rapid starting
for stop-start technology.
https://www.mg.co.uk/blog/hybrid-vs-plug-hybrid-vs-mild-hybrid#:~:text=A%20mild%20hybrid%20is%20where,by%20power%20from%20the%20generator.
What is a hybrid car?
A hybrid car uses a combination of a petrol or diesel engine with an electric motor. Therefore, it is more environmentally friendly than petrol or diesel cars by using less fuel and releasing much fewer CO2 emissions.
However, its fuel engine is a great backup if you are new to electric cars as you donrCOt have to worry about range anxiety. This is especially true for self-charging hybrids, where the electric battery is charged from the on-board internal combustion engine. Therefore, a hybrid car will function very similarly to a conventional car, making the transition to a battery car a lot easier.
Thanks to its green credentials, hybrid car owners can enjoy a lot of the benefits of an electric car, from lower first year tax to free congestion charge. It is worth checking how a hybrid car could save you money in the long run when it comes to choosing the MG car that's right for you.
What is a mild hybrid?
A mild hybrid is where a small electric generator is installed in place
of a traditional starter motor and alternator. This increases fuel
efficiency and reduces CO2 emissions by allowing fuel-intensive
activities, like rapid acceleration or restarting after a stop, to be supported by power from the generator. Alongside this, mild hybrids
also harvest energy during braking, which is then returned to the
battery to provide additional electric assistance.
On 2/16/2026 4:59 PM, Mars Sellus wrote:
On Mon, 16 Feb 2026 16:24:43 -0600
bud-- <null@void.com> wrote:
ut many/most other hybrids /do have/ starter motor fatigue to
contend with.
No reliable source.
It's a tool.You won't trust GooGoo's AI?
"High-Duty Cycle Fatigue: The engine in a hybrid stops and starts
dozens of times per commute. This subjects the starter system and
engine components to significantly more start-stop cycles than a traditional vehicle, potentially causing earlier wear on bearings
and starter motor insulation. Electrical Strain: The starter system
in hybrids may suffer from electrical "fatigue" due to inrush
current surges, which can be 5rCo10 times the rated current,
accelerating the breakdown of electrical insulation and motor
efficiency.
Ooh AI - how impressive. GIGO
The usual hybrid horror stories. See the comments with both youtubeThe "usual" aspect confirms it is a known and vetter failing.
videos.
You did it from the get go, try and activate that memory muscle.But great advance - a Prius does not have a starter.
Yes, that's been fully sussed already.
Nope. It happened in the previous post.
But I thought you didn't want to talk about it anymore.The Pruis? True.
Prius _used to be_ a full hybrid.
It's a thing you and your Prius won't have to deal with, so quit
pretending your vehicle's architecture reflects that of all
others, capisce?
No pretending on my part.
Almost all my comments have been about Prius.
Yet the discussion is NOT about merely one model, even yours.
Starting in your leading post:
"In a full hybrid like a Toyota Prius or Ford Escape...."
Prius _used to be_ a full hybrid.
Maybe you could stop pretending you know what you are talking
about. Capisce?
After you quit trying to make this a brand-specific soliloquy,
sure...
Starting in your leading post:
"In a full hybrid like a Toyota Prius or Ford Escape...."
I understand a Prius. What you copied is simply wrong for a Prius. OrNo, it may reference older models but it is accurate to those
some other hybrids with excellent maintenance ratings.
Given itsIndeed that has occurred.
errors I seen nothing convincing that the horror stories are real.
Your horror stories read like a manufacturer takes a generic engine
and adds the hybrid stuff.
In particular see the video just below.Again, the Prius is NOT the lone hybrid out there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eC5FFoCq4s
"This video isn't available anymore."
Yes it is:
Sign in to confirm yourCOre not a bot
This helps protect our community. Learn more
Sign in
My error - I had a typo.
Great link.
The video is the usual hybrid horror stories from Mobill oil.
But you may not have noticed the 6000 comments, most all of which
said the video is BS, often citing the hundreds of thousands of miles
on their Prius. And a few comments like "this video has provided
insights into how to sell oil."
Prius _used to be_ a full hybrid.Hybrid vehicles are uniquely challenging due to the frequent
engine start/stops, as well as lower overall engine temperatures,
which can lead to water and fuel dilution.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-xzjo66ifg
The video specifically says it applies to Prius and Ford Escape.
Where?
Are you serious?
Where in the video?
Transcription of which you copied?
In the 4th paragraph?
I wouldn't want to strain your mental facilities so I will repeat it: "Hybrids change the equation. In a full hybrid like a Toyota Prius or
Ford Escape Hybrid...."
Prius _used to be_ a full hybrid.
It has little to do with a Prius.
It showed one, that's about all. It is generic hybrid analysis.
"In a full hybrid like a Toyota Prius or Ford Escape Hybrid...."
You besotted repeat bot.
A Prius does not have a starter.
That's nice, are you going to keep repeating that ad nauseum?
You poor abused person.
I was talking about what is in the video. You repeated my comment.Prius _used to be_ a full hybrid.
Not talking about what you have said.
I no longer trust CR's rating system, nor the size of the data set thay
Consumer Reports in its car issue (which I got 4 days ago) gets
maintenance information from readers.
Yes, so?
With minimal reading ability you could continue reading and find out.
Models come and go, don't they, troll?For a wide variety of car
models it publishes that information in 15 maintenance categories
for the last 8 years for each model. For a Prius all engine/hybrid
related categories are the best for 8 years. For some other random
models the ratings are the best for the last 4 to 8 years - Toyota
RAV, Toyota Camray, Lexus NX, Honda CR-V, Honda Accord. All are
recommended to buy.
CR has become rather lax in their standards since they changed their weighting and reporting iconography.
Today's CR bears little in common with preceding decades testing, to
their detriment.
Then again at least they're not JD (useless) Power...
Wouldn't happen if the horror scenarios below applied.
Of course it could and has.
So the hybrid horror stories apply to a model and the model still has
the highest maintenance ratings and is a recommended buy?
An example:
Hybrid vehicles deliver a brilliant mix of electric efficiency and
gas-powered range. But beneath that seamless driving experience is
a gas engine working in ways it was never designed for... constant
stops and starts. Those frequent restarts bring unique demands
that can lead to premature hybrid engine wear and sludge buildup,
often leaving owners confused when issues appear.
In a traditional internal combustion engine (ICE), the process is
simple. The engine starts when you turn the key and runs until you
shut it off. That means predictable lubrication, steady heat, and
consistent combustion.
Hybrids change the equation. In a full hybrid like a Toyota Prius
or Ford Escape Hybrid, the gas engine only runs when needed: to
boost power, recharge the battery, or drive the wheels at higher
speeds. That means the engine can start and stop dozens of times
in a single commute. Every restart demands instant oil pressure,
reliable fuel delivery, and consistent sparkrCooften under
cooler-than-optimal conditions.
Why Limited Run Time Matters
The bigger concern isnrCOt just the restart, itrCOs the lack of
sustained engine operation. ICE engines are designed to reach a
specific temperature range, where heat boils off water vapor, fuel
dilution, and combustion byproducts in the crankcase.
In a hybrid, the engine might only run for 30 seconds here or a
minute there, never reaching that sweet spot. That lets moisture
stay in the oil longer, leading to:
Oil degradation;
Sludge formation;
Acidic buildup;
Corrosion;
Shortened engine life.
Combine that with ultra-low viscosity oils like 0W-16 or 0W-20,
and the risk of accelerated hybrid engine wear rises if
maintenance is skipped.
Built to Handle Stop-Start Stress
Automakers know hybrids face these challenges. Many use upgraded
starters, stronger ignition systems, and synthetic oils designed
for stop-start duty. Some even feature electric oil pumps or
pressurized reservoirs to keep lubrication steady during restart
events.
Still, no system is immune to neglect. Without the right
maintenance, hybrids can face issues that shorten engine life and
lead to costly repairs.
Maintenance Tips to Avoid Hybrid Engine Wear
Shops can protect hybrid customers with a few smart practices:
Recommend shorter oil change intervals, especially for vehicles
driven mainly on short trips.
Use high-quality synthetic oils that resist moisture
contamination.
Inspect the PCV system frequently; a bad valve accelerates sludge
problems.
Watch for milky residue on dipsticks or under oil capsrCoa classic
sign of water in the oil.
Educate customers: just because the engine doesnrCOt always run
doesnrCOt mean the oil isnrCOt aging.
The Hidden Reality of Hybrid Engine Wear
Hybrids may sip fuel and run quietly, but their engines endure
start-stop abuse that makes conventional driving look easy. As
more hybrids age out of warranty and enter independent shops,
recognizing and addressing these stressors is essential.
So next time a hybrid rolls in, look past the OBD codes. Consider
the enginerCOs lifestyle, constant interruptions, and remember that
itrCOs counting on you to keep it alive.
====================================
Do hybrid cars have a starter motor?
Are they hybrids?
Apparently.
Does an electric motor provide some of the propulsion?
It is a hybrid, so...
Nowhere in your following piece is there anything about a motor
providing propulsion.
AI Overview
Mild hybrids commonly have an engine starter motor that can also
function as an electricity generator (known as a
starter-generator), so after starting the engine, the same unit
can also send energy back into the car's battery, which is
usually a 48-volt unit rather than 12 volts.Jan 6, 2025
Doesn't sound like what I would call a hybrid.
Not concerned with what you would call anything frankly.
So you could read what immediately follows.
AI Overview<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_electric_vehicle>
"a type of hybrid vehicle that couples a conventional internal
combustion engine (ICE) with one or more electric engines into a
combined propulsion system"
The cars below have starter motors - your fetish. Nowhere does it say
there is a motor that provides propulsion. Whether they are hybrids
is not shown. Not that it makes any difference to the thread.
And this is what you find here - "the general public."
Hybrids Using Starter Motors/Belt-Integrated Starters (BISG)
Jeep: Wrangler (2019-2020), Grand Cherokee, and Wagoneer with
eTorque systems. Ram: 1500 with eTorque.
Audi: A8, A7, and Q5 45 TFSI (12V/48V MHEV).
Fiat: 500 Hybrid, Panda Hybrid (using BSG).
General Motors (BAS System): Saturn Aura Green Line, Saturn Vue
Green Line, Chevrolet Malibu (2008-2014), Buick LaCrosse/Regal
(2012-2014), Chevrolet Impala (2014), and Chevrolet Silverado/GMC
Sierra (2016, California only). Wikipedia Wikipedia These vehicles
often use a 36-volt or 48-volt motor-generator unit connected by a
belt to the engine to act as a starter, providing rapid starting
for stop-start technology.
https://www.mg.co.uk/blog/hybrid-vs-plug-hybrid-vs-mild-hybrid#:~:text=A%20mild%20hybrid%20is%20where,by%20power%20from%20the%20generator.
What is a hybrid car?
A hybrid car uses a combination of a petrol or diesel engine with
an electric motor. Therefore, it is more environmentally friendly
than petrol or diesel cars by using less fuel and releasing much
fewer CO2 emissions.
Forgets to say the electric motor can add to the engine to power the
car. And regenerative braking, a major feature that is included in
"mild hybrid".
"Therefore" does not follow from what is before it.
The piece is not good but is an OK brief description for the general
public.
However, its fuel engine is a great backup if you are new to
electric cars as you donrCOt have to worry about range anxiety. This
is especially true for self-charging hybrids, where the electric
battery is charged from the on-board internal combustion engine.
Therefore, a hybrid car will function very similarly to a
conventional car, making the transition to a battery car a lot
easier.
Thanks to its green credentials, hybrid car owners can enjoy a lot
of the benefits of an electric car, from lower first year tax to
free congestion charge. It is worth checking how a hybrid car could
save you money in the long run when it comes to choosing the MG car
that's right for you.
Semantic noodling like this is petty and distorts the value of theWhat is a mild hybrid?
A mild hybrid is where a small electric generator is installed in
place of a traditional starter motor and alternator. This increases
fuel efficiency and reduces CO2 emissions by allowing fuel-intensive activities, like rapid acceleration or restarting after a stop, to
be supported by power from the generator. Alongside this, mild
hybrids also harvest energy during braking, which is then returned
to the battery to provide additional electric assistance.
It isn't a "small electric generator" or "generator". It is a motor generator. Hard to start a car with a generator.
Bryan Simmons <bryangsimmons@gmail.com> posted:
On 2/11/2026 5:31 AM, redacted wrote:
On 2/10/26 22:28, Roger Rhino wrote:The most practical cars are hybrids. Better yet, plug in hybrid. If I
(...)
Ed P<esp@snet.n> wrote:You should consider an EV. They are simple and low-maintenance, and
Given the complexity of new cars, I won't own one out of warranty
easier & way more fun to drive than gasbangers. Electricity is also a
lot cheaper than gas.
For most people, there's not a very good case for gas cars.
Electric cars are the future, not the present.
I'll wait another decade or two.
were buying a new car, I can't think of one I'd prefer over this.
https://www.lexus.com/models/NX-PHEV?trim=nxphev-2
For a second car, this.
https://www.toyota.com/priuspluginhybrid/
I may never buy another car though. We own an old Yaris that gets decent
mileage for around town, an Infiniti for longer trips and an old beater
Acura RDX with 200K+ miles that's mostly for camping or snow. The
Infiniti is great, but it guzzles 93 octane. Not that bad these days
because gas is cheap, but a dew years ago premium was like $4.50, and it
cost $70 to fill up that thing.
We save $200-$300 a year buying gas at Costco. That $65 membership also
gets us $5 chickens.
Gasoline engines are so inefficient that it's better to use a small gas engine to
generate electricity to power electric motors than to power the wheels directly.
My son was driving his girlfriend's hybrid today. We were parked and he had the
AC on. That was unnerving to see that but I think it's going to be a thing in this
new age.
On Sun, 15 Feb 2026 08:25:04 -0600
Bryan Simmons <bryangsimmons@gmail.com> wrote:
My first car was a 1969 Javelin. The
starter crapped out, so I just always parked on a hill.
That aside, nice ride.
Mars Sellus <zed@is.dead> posted:
On Sat, 14 Feb 2026 21:36:50 GMT
dsi1 <user4746@newsgrouper.org.invalid> wrote:
Bryan Simmons <bryangsimmons@gmail.com> posted:
On 2/11/2026 5:31 AM, redacted wrote:
On 2/10/26 22:28, Roger Rhino wrote:The most practical cars are hybrids. Better yet, plug in hybrid. If
(...)
Ed P<esp@snet.n> wrote:You should consider an EV. They are simple and low-maintenance,
Given the complexity of new cars, I won't own one out of
warranty
and easier & way more fun to drive than gasbangers. Electricity
is also a lot cheaper than gas.
For most people, there's not a very good case for gas cars.
Electric cars are the future, not the present.
I'll wait another decade or two.
I were buying a new car, I can't think of one I'd prefer over this.
https://www.lexus.com/models/NX-PHEV?trim=nxphev-2
For a second car, this.
https://www.toyota.com/priuspluginhybrid/
I may never buy another car though. We own an old Yaris that gets
decent mileage for around town, an Infiniti for longer trips and an
old beater Acura RDX with 200K+ miles that's mostly for camping or
snow. The Infiniti is great, but it guzzles 93 octane. Not that bad
these days because gas is cheap, but a dew years ago premium was
like $4.50, and it cost $70 to fill up that thing.
We save $200-$300 a year buying gas at Costco. That $65 membership
also gets us $5 chickens.
Gasoline engines are so inefficient that it's better to use a small
gas engine to generate electricity to power electric motors than to
power the wheels directly.
Yet Chey's Volt somehow didn't survive, neither did BMW's funky little
i3, nor the aptly named Fisker Karma.
But in terms of energy used it made some sense.
Mini generators great, 153 miles range (BMW), not so much.
My son was driving his girlfriend's hybrid
today. We were parked and he had the AC on. That was unnerving to see
that but I think it's going to be a thing in this new age.
Tis indeed.
My guess is that the days of hybrid cars are numbered. Cars with batteries of >over 150 kWh will probably kill off gasoline engines. Solid state batteries >with energy densities of over 400 Wh/kg will probably kill off liquid electrolyte
batteries. Batteries with high energy densities will probably kill off gasoline
generators. There'll be a whole lot of killin' going on.
https://carnewschina.com/2026/02/11/china-to-release-solid-state-battery-standard-in-july-2026/
On Fri, 13 Feb 2026 10:13:17 -0500It is NOT an EV. the 35 mile EV capability is a bonus - The Hybrid is
hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:
On Thu, 12 Feb 2026 22:29:07 -0500, Ed P <esp@snet.n> wrote:
On 2/12/2026 9:29 PM, Bryan Simmons wrote:
The ICE of a hybrid should almost never be stressed, so the engine
Hybrids are also a great choice.a They are economical, but
complicated, and still have the maintenance issues of an ICE.
should last virtually forever, and oil changes could be
infrequent. Change the coolant every ten years or so. Yeah,
eventually they'll need exhaust work. In the case of a PHEV, the
engine is only experiencing the wear of a backup generator.
I really wish they gave the time/miles it ran on electric vs gas.
Oil change recommendations are the same as ICE at 8000 miles.
My average for the 8000 miles is about 45 mpg. Best is on the back
roads traveling at 45 to 50 mph and then I can exceed 50mpg/ Cold
weather reduces the mileage as the engine runs for heat.
They tend to hide that vital statistic - they don't brag about
going ~ 35 miles < at best > on battery only ..
.. that's on a fully charged, new, perfect weather, etc
My neighbour has a Kia Sorento hybrid - a couple years old now -
I'm curious about how he'll feel about it in a couple more years ..
John T.
That 35 (or less) EV range is a damned joke!
On Fri, 13 Feb 2026 21:39:01 -0600
bud-- <null@void.com> wrote:
On 2/13/2026 11:19 AM, Mars Sellus wrote:
On Fri, 13 Feb 2026 10:52:28 -0500
Ed P <esp@snet.n> wrote:
On 2/13/2026 10:41 AM, Bryan Simmons wrote:
On 2/13/2026 9:12 AM, Mars Sellus wrote:
On Thu, 12 Feb 2026 20:29:28 -0600>
Bryan Simmons <bryangsimmons@gmail.com> wrote:
The ICE of a hybrid should almost never be stressed, so the
engine should last virtually forever, and oil changes could be
infrequent.
Less so the starter motor which has a regular and tough duty
cycle.
Yes, ans the starter motor, though I would think that would only
be used when the car is stopped, or when the ICE is used for added
acceleration for a slow speed, but I don't know the workings of
the system.
With ISG, the first thing that comes up is wearing out the starter
motor. They are nothing like the ones on the normal engine, these
are made to be much more rugged and used frequently.
Regardless:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-xzjo66ifg
Hybrids change the equation. In a full hybrid like a Toyota Prius
or Ford Escape Hybrid, the gas engine only runs when needed: to
boost power, recharge the battery, or drive the wheels at higher
speeds. That means the engine can start and stop dozens of times in
a single commute. Every restart demands instant oil pressure,
reliable fuel delivery, and consistent sparkuoften under
cooler-than-optimal conditions.
I have a Prius. You are out of touch with reality. The car starts
from an engine-off stop with a traction motor till about 20 mph. The
engine then starts on another traction motor. The car is then seldom
powered by just battery. The electric adds to the gas engine. The
battery is to capture the kinetic energy of a stop (regeneration),
keep the engine operating at an efficient point (controlling driving
and added power for charging) and can add drive power.
Their system is aces, but it still requires far higher duty cycle
starter motors.
Why Limited Run Time Matters
The bigger concern isnAt just the restart, itAs the lack of
sustained engine operation. ICE engines are designed to reach a
specific temperature range, where heat boils off water vapor, fuel
dilution, and combustion byproducts in the crankcase.
In a hybrid, the engine might only run for 30 seconds here or a
minute there, never reaching that sweet spot. That lets moisture
stay in the oil longer, leading to:
Continued nonsense.
Go argue with AI then.
And btw, there are more hybrids with starter motors than without...
Prius has a high Consumer Reports rating.
Also high consumer satisfaction. Part of the rating is based
on actual user experience (like low maintenance). Your dreams are
just YOUR nightmares.
The temperature concern on a Prius is efficiency. Cold engines run on
approximations in firmware (open-loop). Warm engines use sensors like
the oxygen sensors (closed-loop) which is significantly more
efficient. The Prius, when it is turned off, pumps hot coolant into a
vacuum insulated bottle. When it is turned on the coolant is pumped
back into the engine to get to closed-loop.
A Prius does not have a 12V starter. It starts on one of the 2
traction motors and high voltage battery. That is one of the same
motors that moves the car. You think that motor has a starter wear
problem? Do any hybrids have a 12V starter? The traction motors, by
the way, are 3-phase AC.
The Prius also does not have an alternator. The 12V battery is
charged by a DC-to-DC converter from the high voltage battery.
My Prius has over 150.000 miles with just routine maintenance.
Including, for instance, no brake work because of regeneration.
"It is better to keep your mouth shut and have people think you are a
fool than to open it and remove all doubt."
AI Overview
Starter Motors for Toyota Prius V
The Toyota Prius does not have a traditional starter motor or
alternator; it uses a high-voltage motor-generator (MG1) inside the
transaxle to spin the engine, powered by the hybrid battery. A 12V
battery is still used to energize the system, and a "ready" light or
click indicates it is active.
Iow, a starter motor by any other name is still a starter motor.
But its refreshing to see you upon your hind legs for Toyota.
Meanwhile:
AI Overview
Mild hybrid (MHEV) vehicles are the primary hybrids that use a starter motor, usually in the form of a 48-volt Integrated Starter Generator (ISG) or Belt-driven Starter Generator (BSG). These systems use the electric motor to spin the engine for quick, smooth stop-start functionality and to assist with acceleration.
Common Mild Hybrids with Starter-Generators:
Audi: A4, A6, Q5, Q7, Q8 (often labeled TFSI or TDI)
BMW: 3 Series, 5 Series (48V mild-hybrid models)
Mercedes-Benz: C-Class, E-Class, S-Class (EQ Boost models)
Kia/Hyundai: Sportage, Stonic, Tucson, Kona (often 48V systems)
Suzuki: Swift, Ignis
Mazda: Mazda3, CX-5 (M Hybrid models)
Volkswagen: Golf (eTSI models)
Key Details:
Function: Unlike traditional starters, these ISGs also act as alternators to charge the battery through regenerative braking.
Operation: The motor provides a "boost" to the internal combustion engine but typically cannot propel the vehicle on its own.
Distinction: Full hybrids (like Toyota Prius) generally do not use a
separate starter motor; they use their high-voltage electric
motor/generator (MG1) to start the engine.
| Sysop: | Amessyroom |
|---|---|
| Location: | Fayetteville, NC |
| Users: | 59 |
| Nodes: | 6 (0 / 6) |
| Uptime: | 04:04:06 |
| Calls: | 812 |
| Files: | 1,287 |
| D/L today: |
2 files (4,898K bytes) |
| Messages: | 210,189 |