From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

On Wed, 4 Feb 2026 12:10:00 -0500, Maria Sophia
<mariasophia@comprehension.com> wrote:

Plumbing. Shutoffs. Inside the house. Even outside actually. Under sink.

Toilet. Why on earth are they rotate kind. When have you ever in your 100 >years life ever regulated the flow from the shutoff? It's either on or off.

It's binary. Right? So why do they all NOT have quarter-turn ball valves?

Nobody in the history of indoor plumbing has ever said, 'Let me precisely >throttle my toilet fill valve using this crusty little multi-turn shutoff'.

So why are they ubiquitous?

Mine ARE all 1/4 turn. MOST installed around here in the last 10
years or so are 1/4 turn.
Before the Chinafication of the supply chain 1/4 turn valves were
significantly more expensive than the standardt type so were seldom
used.
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From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

On 2/4/2026 12:25 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:

On Wed, 4 Feb 2026 12:10:00 -0500, Maria Sophia <mariasophia@comprehension.com> wrote:

Plumbing. Shutoffs. Inside the house. Even outside actually. Under sink.

Toilet. Why on earth are they rotate kind. When have you ever in your 100
years life ever regulated the flow from the shutoff? It's either on or off. >>
It's binary. Right? So why do they all NOT have quarter-turn ball valves?

Nobody in the history of indoor plumbing has ever said, 'Let me precisely
throttle my toilet fill valve using this crusty little multi-turn shutoff'. >>
So why are they ubiquitous?

Mine ARE all 1/4 turn. MOST installed around here in the last 10
years or so are 1/4 turn.
Before the Chinafication of the supply chain 1/4 turn valves were significantly more expensive than the standardt type so were seldom
used.

I believe my newer ones are all also quarter turn. Old shutoff valves
have been my recent plumbing problems with leaking and needing replacement.
--- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

On 2/4/2026 1:29 PM, Frank wrote:

On 2/4/2026 12:25 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:

On Wed, 4 Feb 2026 12:10:00 -0500, Maria Sophia
<mariasophia@comprehension.com> wrote:

Plumbing. Shutoffs. Inside the house. Even outside actually. Under sink. >>>
Toilet. Why on earth are they rotate kind. When have you ever in your 100 >>> years life ever regulated the flow from the shutoff? It's either on or off. >>>
It's binary. Right? So why do they all NOT have quarter-turn ball valves? >>>
Nobody in the history of indoor plumbing has ever said, 'Let me precisely >>> throttle my toilet fill valve using this crusty little multi-turn shutoff'. >>>
So why are they ubiquitous?

Mine ARE all 1/4 turn. MOST installed around here in the last 10
years or so are 1/4 turn.
Before the Chinafication of the supply chain 1/4 turn valves were
significantly more expensive than the standardt type so were seldom
used.

I believe my newer ones are all also quarter turn. Old shutoff valves
have been my recent plumbing problems with leaking and needing replacement.

The nice thing about the old shutoff valves is that in my experience, I
can easily repair the two most common problems I've seen with those
valves. Either the washer needs replacement if the valve isn't
completely shutting off the water, or the packing nut needs slight
tightening if there is leaking where the valve stem penetrates the
packing nut. Don't have a clue what to do if there is any malfunction
with a quarter turn valve. Actually, I've had quarter turn valves
refuse to turn after a long period of non-use. I've never had an old
style valve refuse to turn.
--- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

On 2/4/26 12:10rC>PM, Maria Sophia wrote:

Plumbing. Shutoffs. Inside the house. Even outside actually. Under sink. Toilet. Why on earth are they rotate kind. When have you ever in your 100 years life ever regulated the flow from the shutoff? It's either on or off. It's binary. Right? So why do they all NOT have quarter-turn ball valves?

Nobody in the history of indoor plumbing has ever said, 'Let me precisely throttle my toilet fill valve using this crusty little multi-turn shutoff'.

So why are they ubiquitous?

FWIW, before retiring, I owned 5 homes built before 1971 in 2 states.
All had "rotary" shutoff valves. If they leaked then they were repaired
not replaced. I only saw 1/4 turns at other newer homes, or repairs at
older.

My plumbing pet peeve is why do tubs and showers NOT have their own
shutoffs of any kind ?
--- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

On 2026-02-04, retired1 <retired@home.usa> wrote:

On 2/4/26 12:10rC>PM, Maria Sophia wrote:

Plumbing. Shutoffs. Inside the house. Even outside actually. Under sink.
Toilet. Why on earth are they rotate kind. When have you ever in your 100
years life ever regulated the flow from the shutoff? It's either on or off. >> It's binary. Right? So why do they all NOT have quarter-turn ball valves?

Nobody in the history of indoor plumbing has ever said, 'Let me precisely
throttle my toilet fill valve using this crusty little multi-turn shutoff'. >>
So why are they ubiquitous?

FWIW, before retiring, I owned 5 homes built before 1971 in 2 states.
All had "rotary" shutoff valves. If they leaked then they were repaired
not replaced. I only saw 1/4 turns at other newer homes, or repairs at older.

My plumbing pet peeve is why do tubs and showers NOT have their own
shutoffs of any kind ?

It costs less that way.

Every fixture in our house has its own shutoff. Needless to say,
we did all the plumbing ourselves.
--
Cindy Hamilton
--- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

On 2/4/2026 2:56 PM, retired1 wrote:

On 2/4/26 12:10rC>PM, Maria Sophia wrote:

Plumbing. Shutoffs. Inside the house. Even outside actually. Under sink.
Toilet. Why on earth are they rotate kind. When have you ever in your 100
years life ever regulated the flow from the shutoff? It's either on or
off.
It's binary. Right? So why do they all NOT have quarter-turn ball valves?

Nobody in the history of indoor plumbing has ever said, 'Let me precisely
throttle my toilet fill valve using this crusty little multi-turn
shutoff'.

So why are they ubiquitous?

FWIW, before retiring, I owned 5 homes built before 1971 in 2 states.
All had "rotary" shutoff valves. If they leaked then they were repaired
not replaced. I only saw 1/4 turns at other newer homes, or repairs at older.

My plumbing pet peeve is why do tubs and showers NOT have their own
shutoffs of any kind ?

My last two houses did. This one does not. Only reason I can think of
is cost for the valves and access panel.
--- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

On Wed, 4 Feb 2026 14:56:45 -0500, retired1 <retired@home.usa> wrote:

FWIW, before retiring, I owned 5 homes built before 1971 in 2 states.
All had "rotary" shutoff valves. If they leaked then they were repaired
not replaced. I only saw 1/4 turns at other newer homes, or repairs at >older.

My plumbing pet peeve is why do tubs and showers NOT have their own
shutoffs of any kind ?

My last house had a "distribution manifold" in the garage that provided
the capability to shut off the hot or cold water to any faucet in the
house. It came in very handy on a couple of occasions.

It wasn't this exact model, but it was very similar. Separate valve for
hot and cold, each faucet clearly marked. <https://www.homedepot.com/p/Viega-ManaBloc-1-2-in-x-14-port-Polymer-Distribution-Manifold-6-hot-8-cold-50144/327747575>

--- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

In <bin7oklnqd6d8qjvss30e588fgdu1lsbuj@4ax.com> Jim Joyce <none@none.invalid> writes:

My plumbing pet peeve is why do tubs and showers NOT have their own >>shutoffs of any kind ?

My last house had a "distribution manifold" in the garage that provided
the capability to shut off the hot or cold water to any faucet in the
house. It came in very handy on a couple of occasions.

our house in Flyover Country, built 1990ish, has utility water
piped in under our basement and then coming up, with a rotary
shut off valve about a foot off the concrete.

As this is a contracter, 35 y/o cheapie, if we ever needed
to use that valve it would have been a "cross your fingers
that it'll close and then reopen without major leaks" deal.

So... the next time we had some real plumbers here, we had
them shut that valve, cut out a foot of pipe "downstream"
(inside the house), add a couple of inches of new pipe,
then a new valve, more pipe, a garden house faucet, some
more pipe, another new valve, and then reconnected to
the home plumbing.

(rotate 90 degrees)

[floor] original pipe, oroginal valve, new pipe, new valve, short pipe,
garden faucet, short pipe, new valve, short pipe, old plumbing...

This way, if something goes wrong with interior plumbing and
we have to shut off the whole house, we can cut out 95 percent
of the building and still have marginally useful water from
that new faucet [a] until we fix the problem.

[a] while no showers... we can fill some buckets and
carry them to the toilet, etc.
--
_____________________________________________________
Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key
dannyb@panix.com
[to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded]
--- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

Ed P <esp@snet.n> writes:

On 2/4/2026 2:56 PM, retired1 wrote:

On 2/4/26 12:10rC>PM, Maria Sophia wrote:

Plumbing. Shutoffs. Inside the house. Even outside actually. Under sink. >>> Toilet. Why on earth are they rotate kind. When have you ever in your 100 >>> years life ever regulated the flow from the shutoff? It's either on or
off.
It's binary. Right? So why do they all NOT have quarter-turn ball valves? >>>
Nobody in the history of indoor plumbing has ever said, 'Let me precisely >>> throttle my toilet fill valve using this crusty little multi-turn
shutoff'.

So why are they ubiquitous?

FWIW, before retiring, I owned 5 homes built before 1971 in 2 states.
All had "rotary" shutoff valves. If they leaked then they were repaired
not replaced. I only saw 1/4 turns at other newer homes, or repairs at
older.

My plumbing pet peeve is why do tubs and showers NOT have their own
shutoffs of any kind ?

My last two houses did. This one does not. Only reason I can think of
is cost for the valves and access panel.

The multi-turn angle-stop used with most lav and toilets is significantly
less expensive than the quarter-turn (ball) valves, which require
machining at higher tolerances. In standard housing developments, the developers are too cheap to use quality valves.

As for showers, there's no easy (read inexpensive) way to provide
access to the lines feeding the shower (unless they're in an
unfinished basement). An access panel would often need to be in
the adjacent room, or exterior wall.

The standard angle-stop will last much longer if it is used
regularly (to clear any hard-water buildups), open it only
to 90% rather than 100% to reduce the chances that hard-water
scale will cement the valve.
--- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) wrote in news:CNSgR.191303$nAq6.138927@fx09.iad:

Ed P <esp@snet.n> writes:

On 2/4/2026 2:56 PM, retired1 wrote:

On 2/4/26 12:10rC>PM, Maria Sophia wrote:

Plumbing. Shutoffs. Inside the house. Even outside actually. Under
sink. Toilet. Why on earth are they rotate kind. When have you ever
in your 100 years life ever regulated the flow from the shutoff? It's
either on or off.
It's binary. Right? So why do they all NOT have quarter-turn ball
valves?

Nobody in the history of indoor plumbing has ever said, 'Let me
precisely throttle my toilet fill valve using this crusty little
multi-turn shutoff'.

So why are they ubiquitous?

FWIW, before retiring, I owned 5 homes built before 1971 in 2 states.
All had "rotary" shutoff valves. If they leaked then they were
repaired not replaced. I only saw 1/4 turns at other newer homes, or
repairs at older.

My plumbing pet peeve is why do tubs and showers NOT have their own
shutoffs of any kind ?

My last two houses did. This one does not. Only reason I can think of
is cost for the valves and access panel.

The multi-turn angle-stop used with most lav and toilets is
significantly less expensive than the quarter-turn (ball) valves, which require machining at higher tolerances. In standard housing
developments, the developers are too cheap to use quality valves.

As for showers, there's no easy (read inexpensive) way to provide
access to the lines feeding the shower (unless they're in an
unfinished basement). An access panel would often need to be in
the adjacent room, or exterior wall.

The standard angle-stop will last much longer if it is used
regularly (to clear any hard-water buildups), open it only
to 90% rather than 100% to reduce the chances that hard-water
scale will cement the valve.

So you're saying with an angle-stop valve, open and close once or twice a
year? to flush out any minerals? Why leave open only 90%? How does that reduce hard-water scale buildup?

Thanks.
--- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

On 2/5/2026 12:33 AM, Boris wrote:

The standard angle-stop will last much longer if it is used
regularly (to clear any hard-water buildups), open it only
to 90% rather than 100% to reduce the chances that hard-water
scale will cement the valve.

So you're saying with an angle-stop valve, open and close once or twice a year? to flush out any minerals? Why leave open only 90%? How does that reduce hard-water scale buildup?

Thanks.

If you get buildup in a fully open valve, you have to use force in one direction to close it. If you leave it at 90%, you have some room to
wiggle to loosen.
--- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

Ed P <posting.blocknews.net> wrote in news:6984abb2$1$23$882e4bbb@reader.netnews.com:

On 2/5/2026 12:33 AM, Boris wrote:

The standard angle-stop will last much longer if it is used
regularly (to clear any hard-water buildups), open it only
to 90% rather than 100% to reduce the chances that hard-water
scale will cement the valve.

So you're saying with an angle-stop valve, open and close once or twice
a year? to flush out any minerals? Why leave open only 90%? How does
that reduce hard-water scale buildup?

Thanks.

If you get buildup in a fully open valve, you have to use force in one direction to close it. If you leave it at 90%, you have some room to
wiggle to loosen.

I see. In other word, you have a running start.

Thanks.
--- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

On Wed, 4 Feb 2026 14:44:45 -0500, Retirednoguilt <HapilyRetired@fakeaddress.com> wrote:

On 2/4/2026 1:29 PM, Frank wrote:

On 2/4/2026 12:25 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:

On Wed, 4 Feb 2026 12:10:00 -0500, Maria Sophia
<mariasophia@comprehension.com> wrote:

Plumbing. Shutoffs. Inside the house. Even outside actually. Under sink. >>>>
Toilet. Why on earth are they rotate kind. When have you ever in your 100 >>>> years life ever regulated the flow from the shutoff? It's either on or off.

It's binary. Right? So why do they all NOT have quarter-turn ball valves? >>>>
Nobody in the history of indoor plumbing has ever said, 'Let me precisely >>>> throttle my toilet fill valve using this crusty little multi-turn shutoff'.

So why are they ubiquitous?

Mine ARE all 1/4 turn. MOST installed around here in the last 10
years or so are 1/4 turn.
Before the Chinafication of the supply chain 1/4 turn valves were
significantly more expensive than the standardt type so were seldom
used.

I believe my newer ones are all also quarter turn. Old shutoff valves
have been my recent plumbing problems with leaking and needing replacement.

The nice thing about the old shutoff valves is that in my experience, I
can easily repair the two most common problems I've seen with those
valves. Either the washer needs replacement if the valve isn't
completely shutting off the water, or the packing nut needs slight
tightening if there is leaking where the valve stem penetrates the
packing nut. Don't have a clue what to do if there is any malfunction
with a quarter turn valve. Actually, I've had quarter turn valves
refuse to turn after a long period of non-use. I've never had an old
style valve refuse to turn.

Virtually every one I had to replace with a 1/4 turn was because I
couldn't turn the old one. Hard water really did them in. Wxercising a
1/4 turn every 6 months or so is simple compared to cranking a typical multy-turn valve.
--- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

On Wed, 4 Feb 2026 14:44:45 -0500, Retirednoguilt <HapilyRetired@fakeaddress.com> wrote:

On 2/4/2026 1:29 PM, Frank wrote:

On 2/4/2026 12:25 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:

On Wed, 4 Feb 2026 12:10:00 -0500, Maria Sophia
<mariasophia@comprehension.com> wrote:

Plumbing. Shutoffs. Inside the house. Even outside actually. Under sink. >>>>
Toilet. Why on earth are they rotate kind. When have you ever in your 100 >>>> years life ever regulated the flow from the shutoff? It's either on or off.

It's binary. Right? So why do they all NOT have quarter-turn ball valves? >>>>
Nobody in the history of indoor plumbing has ever said, 'Let me precisely >>>> throttle my toilet fill valve using this crusty little multi-turn shutoff'.

So why are they ubiquitous?

Mine ARE all 1/4 turn. MOST installed around here in the last 10
years or so are 1/4 turn.
Before the Chinafication of the supply chain 1/4 turn valves were
significantly more expensive than the standardt type so were seldom
used.

I believe my newer ones are all also quarter turn. Old shutoff valves
have been my recent plumbing problems with leaking and needing replacement.

The nice thing about the old shutoff valves is that in my experience, I
can easily repair the two most common problems I've seen with those
valves. Either the washer needs replacement if the valve isn't
completely shutting off the water, or the packing nut needs slight
tightening if there is leaking where the valve stem penetrates the
packing nut. Don't have a clue what to do if there is any malfunction
with a quarter turn valve. Actually, I've had quarter turn valves
refuse to turn after a long period of non-use. I've never had an old
style valve refuse to turn.

I'm talking the little 3/8" shutoffs - the 1/2 inch and larger valves
are generally easy enough to rebuild - and back when they were all
noth American standard valves you could buy a replacement valve and
just switch the "guts" if a shaft corroded or the washer screw twisted
off. Today's ChinaCrap the guts aren't interchangeable from one batch
to the next from the same supplier half the time. - but I've switched
all of them to good 1/4 turns as well -
--- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

On 02/04/2026 12:10, Maria Sophia wrote:

Plumbing. Shutoffs. Inside the house. Even outside actually. Under sink. Toilet. Why on earth are they rotate kind. When have you ever in your 100 years life ever regulated the flow from the shutoff? It's either on or off. It's binary. Right? So why do they all NOT have quarter-turn ball valves?

Nobody in the history of indoor plumbing has ever said, 'Let me precisely throttle my toilet fill valve using this crusty little multi-turn shutoff'.

So why are they ubiquitous?

The rotate type are cheaper. The builder has satisfied whatever code
there is.

My house was built in 1967 and no plumber or inspector has ever found a
whole house shutoff valve anywhere. I always had to use the one outside
on the lawn to shut off the water when replacing valves in the
bathtub/shower fixtures or anywhere which didn't have its own shutoff valve.

A couple years ago the water company replaced all the meters to the
houses with electronically controlled ones. Now you're supposed to call
the utility company and wait on the line for 20 minutes to get someone
to shut off the water. I finally had the plumber install a whole house
shutoff valve which comes up into a hallway closet then goes back down
under the house again.

Plumbers don't even like working with copper plumbing these days. They
replace everything with PEX and press fittings.
--- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

On 2/6/2026 7:40 AM, badgolferman wrote:

On 02/04/2026 12:10, Maria Sophia wrote:

Plumbing. Shutoffs. Inside the house. Even outside actually. Under sink.
Toilet. Why on earth are they rotate kind. When have you ever in your 100
years life ever regulated the flow from the shutoff? It's either on or off. >> It's binary. Right? So why do they all NOT have quarter-turn ball valves?

Nobody in the history of indoor plumbing has ever said, 'Let me precisely
throttle my toilet fill valve using this crusty little multi-turn shutoff'. >>
So why are they ubiquitous?

The rotate type are cheaper. The builder has satisfied whatever code
there is.

My house was built in 1967 and no plumber or inspector has ever found a
whole house shutoff valve anywhere. I always had to use the one outside
on the lawn to shut off the water when replacing valves in the
bathtub/shower fixtures or anywhere which didn't have its own shutoff valve.

A couple years ago the water company replaced all the meters to the
houses with electronically controlled ones. Now you're supposed to call
the utility company and wait on the line for 20 minutes to get someone
to shut off the water. I finally had the plumber install a whole house shutoff valve which comes up into a hallway closet then goes back down
under the house again.

Plumbers don't even like working with copper plumbing these days. They replace everything with PEX and press fittings.

I have a well with in line sediment and iron filters with quarter turn
shut off valves where I can bypass the filters when changing and also
cut off the whole house if needed. Four of these valves with no
problems. I can also cut off water by shutting off power to the well
from a nearby fuse box.

Plumber I had in a few days ago said he does not like the SharkBite
fittings as they do not hold up.

With well water being more corrosive my next door neighbor had copper
replaced with PEX and later occupant said 16 of the fittings leaked. Apparently bad coupling was used.


--- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

Plumbing. Shutoffs. Inside the house. Even outside actually. Under sink.

Toilet. Why on earth are they rotate kind. When have you ever in your 100
years life ever regulated the flow from the shutoff? It's either on or off.

It's binary. Right? So why do they all NOT have quarter-turn ball valves?

Nobody in the history of indoor plumbing has ever said, 'Let me precisely throttle my toilet fill valve using this crusty little multi-turn shutoff'.

So why are they ubiquitous?
--- Synchronet 3.21d-Linux NewsLink 1.2