• Re: The dreaded time change

    From redacted@devnull@redacted.dnc to alt.home.repair on Mon Nov 3 06:28:14 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------0xDfO2WolRTfLgLWc55Daovt
    Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

    On 11/2/25 19:45, Ed P wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 4:28 PM, hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:
    On Sun, 2 Nov 2025 10:14:25 -0500, Frank <"frank "@frank.net> wrote:

    Not only did I have to change all the conventional clocks but even the
    atomics.-a My watch was OK but wall clock and clock above my desk worked >>> with zone change.-a Smart watch required syncing with smart phone.-a PITA >>> and I know we all hate it.


    -a-a No kidding-a !
    You'd think that-a Dumbold J. Trump-a would have solved this by now ..
    .. perhaps he's too busy with White House renovations-a -
    -a-a-a-a * *-a ding *-a ding * *-a-a-a * Warning * Warning *
    -a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a * *-a-a On Topic reference-a * *-a-a-a-a-a ..
    ...-a White House renovations-a in-a alt home repair-a !
    ..-a-a Tsk-a Tsk-a what is this group coming to ?
    -a-a John T.

    Did you see the bathroom he did?-a Nice big window right by the toilet so you can look out at the peons when you take a dump.

    This one?

    https://www.irishstar.com/news/us-news/trump-accidentally-exposes-construction-workers-36172120

    Do you have a credible link or did you just fart into alt.home.repair?


    --------------0xDfO2WolRTfLgLWc55Daovt
    Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
    Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

    <!DOCTYPE html>
    <html>
    <head>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
    </head>
    <body>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 11/2/25 19:45, Ed P wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:10e8tvi$2hfgc$1@dont-email.me">On
    11/2/2025 4:28 PM, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:hubops@ccanoemail.com">hubops@ccanoemail.com</a> wrote:
    <br>
    <blockquote type="cite">On Sun, 2 Nov 2025 10:14:25 -0500, Frank
    &lt;"frank "@frank.net&gt; wrote:
    <br>
    <br>
    <blockquote type="cite">Not only did I have to change all the
    conventional clocks but even the
    <br>
    atomics.-a My watch was OK but wall clock and clock above my
    desk worked
    <br>
    with zone change.-a Smart watch required syncing with smart
    phone.-a PITA
    <br>
    and I know we all hate it.
    <br>
    <br>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    -a-a No kidding-a !
    <br>
    You'd think that-a Dumbold J. Trump-a would have solved this by
    now ..
    <br>
    .. perhaps he's too busy with White House renovations-a -
    <br>
    -a-a-a-a * *-a ding *-a ding * *-a-a-a * Warning * Warning *
    <br>
    -a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a * *-a-a On Topic reference-a * *-a-a-a-a-a ..
    <br>
    ...-a White House renovations-a in-a alt home repair-a !
    <br>
    ..-a-a Tsk-a Tsk-a what is this group coming to ?
    <br>
    -a-a John T.
    <br>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    Did you see the bathroom he did?-a Nice big window right by the
    toilet so you can look out at the peons when you take a dump.
    <br>
    </blockquote>
    <p>This one?</p>
    <p><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.irishstar.com/news/us-news/trump-accidentally-exposes-construction-workers-36172120">https://www.irishstar.com/news/us-news/trump-accidentally-exposes-construction-workers-36172120</a></p>
    <p>Do you have a credible link or did you just fart into
    alt.home.repair?</p>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    </body>
    </html>

    --------------0xDfO2WolRTfLgLWc55Daovt--
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From redacted@devnull@redacted.dnc to alt.home.repair on Mon Nov 3 06:41:52 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------YGdE5wXzlGHeoF0oB8JanfwX
    Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

    On 11/2/25 19:45, Ed P wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 4:28 PM, hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:
    On Sun, 2 Nov 2025 10:14:25 -0500, Frank <"frank "@frank.net> wrote:

    Not only did I have to change all the conventional clocks but even the
    atomics.-a My watch was OK but wall clock and clock above my desk worked >>> with zone change.-a Smart watch required syncing with smart phone.-a PITA >>> and I know we all hate it.


    -a-a No kidding-a !
    You'd think that-a Dumbold J. Trump-a would have solved this by now ..
    .. perhaps he's too busy with White House renovations-a -
    -a-a-a-a * *-a ding *-a ding * *-a-a-a * Warning * Warning *
    -a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a * *-a-a On Topic reference-a * *-a-a-a-a-a ..
    ...-a White House renovations-a in-a alt home repair-a !
    ..-a-a Tsk-a Tsk-a what is this group coming to ?
    -a-a John T.

    Did you see the bathroom he did?-a Nice big window right by the toilet so you can look out at the peons when you take a dump.

    No one runs up government debt like a Democrat.

    https://craiggoldman.house.gov/DOGE

    Democrat motto:

    Tax a working private-sector taxpayer, take your cut and give the remainder to a feckless fibturd bureaucrat.

    --------------YGdE5wXzlGHeoF0oB8JanfwX
    Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
    Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

    <!DOCTYPE html>
    <html>
    <head>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
    </head>
    <body>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 11/2/25 19:45, Ed P wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:10e8tvi$2hfgc$1@dont-email.me">On
    11/2/2025 4:28 PM, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:hubops@ccanoemail.com">hubops@ccanoemail.com</a> wrote:
    <br>
    <blockquote type="cite">On Sun, 2 Nov 2025 10:14:25 -0500, Frank
    &lt;"frank "@frank.net&gt; wrote:
    <br>
    <br>
    <blockquote type="cite">Not only did I have to change all the
    conventional clocks but even the
    <br>
    atomics.-a My watch was OK but wall clock and clock above my
    desk worked
    <br>
    with zone change.-a Smart watch required syncing with smart
    phone.-a PITA
    <br>
    and I know we all hate it.
    <br>
    <br>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    -a-a No kidding-a !
    <br>
    You'd think that-a Dumbold J. Trump-a would have solved this by
    now ..
    <br>
    .. perhaps he's too busy with White House renovations-a -
    <br>
    -a-a-a-a * *-a ding *-a ding * *-a-a-a * Warning * Warning *
    <br>
    -a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a * *-a-a On Topic reference-a * *-a-a-a-a-a ..
    <br>
    ...-a White House renovations-a in-a alt home repair-a !
    <br>
    ..-a-a Tsk-a Tsk-a what is this group coming to ?
    <br>
    -a-a John T.
    <br>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    Did you see the bathroom he did?-a Nice big window right by the
    toilet so you can look out at the peons when you take a dump.
    <br>
    </blockquote>
    <p>No one runs up government debt like a Democrat.</p>
    <p><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://craiggoldman.house.gov/DOGE">https://craiggoldman.house.gov/DOGE</a></p>
    <p>Democrat motto:-a</p>
    <p>Tax a working private-sector taxpayer, take your cut and give the
    remainder to a feckless fibturd bureaucrat.</p>
    </body>
    </html>

    --------------YGdE5wXzlGHeoF0oB8JanfwX--
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Retirednoguilt@HapilyRetired@fakeaddress.com to alt.home.repair on Mon Nov 3 07:54:53 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    On 11/2/2025 4:47 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
    On Sun, 2 Nov 2025 11:04:56 -0500, Retirednoguilt <HapilyRetired@fakeaddress.com> wrote:

    On 11/2/2025 10:14 AM, Frank wrote:
    Not only did I have to change all the conventional clocks but even the
    atomics. My watch was OK but wall clock and clock above my desk worked >>> with zone change. Smart watch required syncing with smart phone. PITA >>> and I know we all hate it.

    I'd blame either WWV reception problems or weak batteries for the
    problem with 2/3 of your "atomic" clock issues. That assumes that both
    of them have handled previous time change cycles correctly. If they
    didn't, I'd wonder about their firmware. I've got 3 "atomic" time
    keeping devices, 2 of which are about 20 years old. All 3 continue to
    deal flawlessly with the time changes despite my condo being in a steel
    girder building and in located in rooms with screens on all the windows.
    I'm located in the mid-Atlantic in an urban/suburban neighborhood with
    many nearby high rise buildings.
    with the advent of GPS the "smart clocks" can now tell exactly where
    they are and what the local time is to the decimal fraction of a
    second - - -but they do need to be able to "see" the sky to set
    themselves.

    I don't see any advantage of using GPS vs. radio signals to keep clocks
    and wrist watches properly set in almost all areas of the continental
    US, Japan, or western Europe where there are time calibration radio
    signal transmitters. No lay citizen needs to have their timepiece set
    with the accuracy of a fraction of one second. No unobstructed view of
    the sky is required with radio signal calibration. My "atomic" wrist
    watch and clocks are kept in locations that no view of the sky and they
    receive the radio signals despite screens on the windows, steel girder
    building construction, and my condo unit on a lower floor where
    surrounding buildings at all points of the compass are far higher. That feature makes radio signal calibration much more practical for the lay
    citizen, especially those who live in urban settings with many tall
    buildings that are likely to prevent a clear view of the sky. Where GPS
    comes into it's own is in locations where time calibration radio signals
    are not available, or for applications where maximal precision of
    timekeeping is essential. Ideally, the timepiece would include the
    ability to switch between radio signal reception and GPS reception at
    the discretion of the user. Bulkier and more expensive, but with
    essentially total planet capability for automatic, accurate time keeping.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Ed P@esp@snet.n to alt.home.repair on Mon Nov 3 08:34:43 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    On 11/3/2025 7:54 AM, Retirednoguilt wrote:


    I don't see any advantage of using GPS vs. radio signals to keep clocks
    and wrist watches properly set in almost all areas of the continental
    US, Japan, or western Europe where there are time calibration radio
    signal transmitters. No lay citizen needs to have their timepiece set
    with the accuracy of a fraction of one second. No unobstructed view of
    the sky is required with radio signal calibration. My "atomic" wrist
    watch and clocks are kept in locations that no view of the sky and they receive the radio signals despite screens on the windows, steel girder building construction, and my condo unit on a lower floor where
    surrounding buildings at all points of the compass are far higher. That feature makes radio signal calibration much more practical for the lay citizen, especially those who live in urban settings with many tall
    buildings that are likely to prevent a clear view of the sky. Where GPS
    comes into it's own is in locations where time calibration radio signals
    are not available, or for applications where maximal precision of
    timekeeping is essential. Ideally, the timepiece would include the
    ability to switch between radio signal reception and GPS reception at
    the discretion of the user. Bulkier and more expensive, but with
    essentially total planet capability for automatic, accurate time keeping.

    Would it matter where the signal comes from? What if you live near the
    border of a time zone?

    My GPS for navigation knows where I am within about 10 feet, the local
    radio station can be tuned for miles.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Roger Rhino@not@my.usa to alt.home.repair on Mon Nov 3 11:02:10 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    redacted <devnull@redacted.dnc> wrote:
    On 11/2/25 19:45, Ed P wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 4:28 PM, hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:
    On Sun, 2 Nov 2025 10:14:25 -0500, Frank <"frank "@frank.net> wrote:

    Not only did I have to change all the conventional clocks but even the >>> atomics.a My watch was OK but wall clock and clock above my desk worked >>> with zone change.a Smart watch required syncing with smart phone.a PITA >>> and I know we all hate it.


    aa No kiddinga !
    You'd think thata Dumbold J. Trumpa would have solved this by now ..
    .. perhaps he's too busy with White House renovationsa -
    aaaa * *a ding *a ding * *aaa * Warning * Warning *
    aaaaaaaaaaaaa * *aa On Topic referencea * *aaaaa ..
    ...a White House renovationsa ina alt home repaira !
    ..aa Tska Tska what is this group coming to ?
    aa John T.

    Did you see the bathroom he did?a Nice big window right by the toilet so you can look out at the peons when you take a dump.

    No one runs up government debt like a Democrat.

    LOL! There's a trump-scale whopper.

    You don't pay much attention to how much the federal government borrows
    during whose term, do you?



    https://craiggoldman.house.gov/DOGE

    Democrat motto:

    Tax a working private-sector taxpayer, take your cut and give the remainder to a feckless fibturd bureaucrat.

    What about the feckless fibturd in the white house?

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Retirednoguilt@HapilyRetired@fakeaddress.com to alt.home.repair on Mon Nov 3 14:19:50 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    On 11/3/2025 8:34 AM, Ed P wrote:
    On 11/3/2025 7:54 AM, Retirednoguilt wrote:


    I don't see any advantage of using GPS vs. radio signals to keep clocks
    and wrist watches properly set in almost all areas of the continental
    US, Japan, or western Europe where there are time calibration radio
    signal transmitters. No lay citizen needs to have their timepiece set
    with the accuracy of a fraction of one second. No unobstructed view of
    the sky is required with radio signal calibration. My "atomic" wrist
    watch and clocks are kept in locations that no view of the sky and they
    receive the radio signals despite screens on the windows, steel girder
    building construction, and my condo unit on a lower floor where
    surrounding buildings at all points of the compass are far higher. That
    feature makes radio signal calibration much more practical for the lay
    citizen, especially those who live in urban settings with many tall
    buildings that are likely to prevent a clear view of the sky. Where GPS
    comes into it's own is in locations where time calibration radio signals
    are not available, or for applications where maximal precision of
    timekeeping is essential. Ideally, the timepiece would include the
    ability to switch between radio signal reception and GPS reception at
    the discretion of the user. Bulkier and more expensive, but with
    essentially total planet capability for automatic, accurate time keeping.

    Would it matter where the signal comes from? What if you live near the border of a time zone?

    My GPS for navigation knows where I am within about 10 feet, the local
    radio station can be tuned for miles.

    See: https://www.weathershack.com/pages/how-do-atomic-clocks-work to
    address your question about where the signals come from. In addition,
    the watches and clocks have settings that allow the user to adjust the
    time zone offset to select the correct time zone for the user's location
    when the user's location is near a time zone border. I'm not saying
    that there aren't certain advantages of setting clocks via GPS signals,
    it's just that for many users, the problem of clear view of the sky is a
    bigger problem than changing a setting on the clock to adjust for a time
    zone border if using radio signals to set the clock. A GPS desk or wall
    clock in a room without a window or with a window lacking a clear view
    of the sky cannot automatically set time.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Carlos E.R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to alt.home.repair on Mon Nov 3 23:14:00 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    On 2025-11-03 13:54, Retirednoguilt wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 4:47 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
    On Sun, 2 Nov 2025 11:04:56 -0500, Retirednoguilt
    <HapilyRetired@fakeaddress.com> wrote:

    On 11/2/2025 10:14 AM, Frank wrote:
    Not only did I have to change all the conventional clocks but even the >>>> atomics. My watch was OK but wall clock and clock above my desk worked >>>> with zone change. Smart watch required syncing with smart phone. PITA >>>> and I know we all hate it.

    I'd blame either WWV reception problems or weak batteries for the
    problem with 2/3 of your "atomic" clock issues. That assumes that both
    of them have handled previous time change cycles correctly. If they
    didn't, I'd wonder about their firmware. I've got 3 "atomic" time
    keeping devices, 2 of which are about 20 years old. All 3 continue to
    deal flawlessly with the time changes despite my condo being in a steel
    girder building and in located in rooms with screens on all the windows. >>> I'm located in the mid-Atlantic in an urban/suburban neighborhood with
    many nearby high rise buildings.
    with the advent of GPS the "smart clocks" can now tell exactly where
    they are and what the local time is to the decimal fraction of a
    second - - -but they do need to be able to "see" the sky to set
    themselves.

    I don't see any advantage of using GPS vs. radio signals to keep clocks
    and wrist watches properly set in almost all areas of the continental
    US, Japan, or western Europe where there are time calibration radio
    signal transmitters.

    Where I live in Europe, my radio clocks do not manage to sync every day,
    and they do so only during some nights. And if the battery is low, it
    may not sync in a month. Actually, sometimes is shows a time that is,
    for example, 4 hours 22 minutes off. A random amount off. I simply can
    not trust it.

    So my clocks would have to be WiFi or GPS. Not because I need GPS
    precision, but in order to have any sync and automation.
    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    ESEfc-Efc+, EUEfc-Efc|;
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Carlos E.R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to alt.home.repair on Mon Nov 3 23:18:36 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    On 2025-11-03 14:34, Ed P wrote:
    My GPS for navigation knows where I am within about 10 feet, the local
    radio station can be tuned for miles.

    My car radio has has RDS, which means my car can get the time
    automatically. It is useless, the stations have wrong time by hours and minutes.

    I have a desktop RDS receiver. It says it is now 18:43, when it is
    actually 23:17. On one of the important national wide radio networks.
    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    ESEfc-Efc+, EUEfc-Efc|;
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Clare Snyder@clare@snyder.on.ca to alt.home.repair on Mon Nov 3 18:10:00 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    On Mon, 3 Nov 2025 23:18:36 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
    <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

    On 2025-11-03 14:34, Ed P wrote:
    My GPS for navigation knows where I am within about 10 feet, the local
    radio station can be tuned for miles.

    My car radio has has RDS, which means my car can get the time
    automatically. It is useless, the stations have wrong time by hours and >minutes.

    I have a desktop RDS receiver. It says it is now 18:43, when it is
    actually 23:17. On one of the important national wide radio networks.
    The shortwave radio time standards (like CHU in Canada) only
    broafcast "co-ordinated Universal Time" signals (which I believe are
    "Greenwich Mean Time) and are not location specific and do not handle
    daylight savings time. Local time and DST must be handled by
    programming in the recieving device - entered by the operator and not "portable" across time zones. GPS based time is fully portable and can determine if DST is applicable based on date and location - but would
    still require "updates" if DST was repealed in any geopolitical area.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Snag@snag_one@msn.com to alt.home.repair on Mon Nov 3 17:46:11 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    On 11/3/2025 4:14 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    On 2025-11-03 13:54, Retirednoguilt wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 4:47 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
    On Sun, 2 Nov 2025 11:04:56 -0500, Retirednoguilt
    <HapilyRetired@fakeaddress.com> wrote:

    On 11/2/2025 10:14 AM, Frank wrote:
    Not only did I have to change all the conventional clocks but even the >>>>> atomics.-a My watch was OK but wall clock and clock above my desk
    worked
    with zone change.-a Smart watch required syncing with smart phone. >>>>> PITA
    and I know we all hate it.

    I'd blame either WWV reception problems or weak batteries for the
    problem with 2/3 of your "atomic" clock issues.-a That assumes that both >>>> of them have handled previous time change cycles correctly.-a If they
    didn't, I'd wonder about their firmware.-a I've got 3 "atomic" time
    keeping devices, 2 of which are about 20 years old.-a All 3 continue to >>>> deal flawlessly with the time changes despite my condo being in a steel >>>> girder building and in located in rooms with screens on all the
    windows.
    I'm located in the mid-Atlantic in an urban/suburban neighborhood with >>>> many nearby high rise buildings.
    -a-a with the advent of GPS the "smart clocks" can now tell exactly where >>> they are and what the local time is to the decimal fraction of a
    second - - -but they do need to be able to "see" the sky to set
    themselves.

    I don't see any advantage of using GPS vs. radio signals to keep clocks
    and wrist watches properly set in almost all areas of the continental
    US, Japan, or western Europe where there are time calibration radio
    signal transmitters.

    Where I live in Europe, my radio clocks do not manage to sync every day,
    and they do so only during some nights. And if the battery is low, it
    may not sync in a month. Actually, sometimes is shows a time that is,
    for example, 4 hours 22 minutes off. A random amount off. I simply can
    not trust it.

    So my clocks would have to be WiFi or GPS. Not because I need GPS
    precision, but in order to have any sync and automation.



    I use a computer program called Atomtime to keep my computers
    synchronized . The cell auto-syncs , as does the landline . I haven't
    worn a watch in many years , my wife only wears one when we're out and
    about . The only times I care about are dinnertime and beer-thirty .
    --
    Snag
    I appreciated foreign cultures more
    when they stayed foreign ...
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Carlos E.R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to alt.home.repair on Tue Nov 4 02:22:13 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    On 2025-11-04 00:10, Clare Snyder wrote:
    On Mon, 3 Nov 2025 23:18:36 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
    <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

    On 2025-11-03 14:34, Ed P wrote:
    My GPS for navigation knows where I am within about 10 feet, the local
    radio station can be tuned for miles.

    My car radio has has RDS, which means my car can get the time
    automatically. It is useless, the stations have wrong time by hours and
    minutes.

    I have a desktop RDS receiver. It says it is now 18:43, when it is
    actually 23:17. On one of the important national wide radio networks.
    The shortwave radio time standards (like CHU in Canada) only
    broafcast "co-ordinated Universal Time" signals (which I believe are "Greenwich Mean Time) and are not location specific and do not handle daylight savings time. Local time and DST must be handled by
    programming in the recieving device - entered by the operator and not "portable" across time zones. GPS based time is fully portable and can determine if DST is applicable based on date and location - but would
    still require "updates" if DST was repealed in any geopolitical area.


    Yes, I can accept the clock in the radio having a different time zone.
    Easy to explain. But not when the minutes are 17 and it says 43. The
    minutes must match.
    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    ESEfc-Efc+, EUEfc-Efc|;
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Clare Snyder@clare@snyder.on.ca to alt.home.repair on Tue Nov 4 01:02:26 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    On Tue, 4 Nov 2025 02:22:13 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
    <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

    On 2025-11-04 00:10, Clare Snyder wrote:
    On Mon, 3 Nov 2025 23:18:36 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
    <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

    On 2025-11-03 14:34, Ed P wrote:
    My GPS for navigation knows where I am within about 10 feet, the local >>>> radio station can be tuned for miles.

    My car radio has has RDS, which means my car can get the time
    automatically. It is useless, the stations have wrong time by hours and
    minutes.

    I have a desktop RDS receiver. It says it is now 18:43, when it is
    actually 23:17. On one of the important national wide radio networks.
    The shortwave radio time standards (like CHU in Canada) only
    broafcast "co-ordinated Universal Time" signals (which I believe are
    "Greenwich Mean Time) and are not location specific and do not handle
    daylight savings time. Local time and DST must be handled by
    programming in the recieving device - entered by the operator and not
    "portable" across time zones. GPS based time is fully portable and can
    determine if DST is applicable based on date and location - but would
    still require "updates" if DST was repealed in any geopolitical area.


    Yes, I can accept the clock in the radio having a different time zone.
    Easy to explain. But not when the minutes are 17 and it says 43. The
    minutes must match.
    It obviously has not synced for a while - - - The last one I had had
    a terrible time connecting to CHU - and was TERRIBLE at actually
    KEEPING time. Within a couple minutes a day was doing good. Trashed it
    a LONG time ago.
    Not like my old Seiko "little running man" watch that was accurate to
    less than a minute a year - like WAY less. The original battery lasted
    over 3 years and it was never out a minute spring or fall - and when I
    left it in my drawer for 2 years it was virtually dead on whe n I took
    it out to use it.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Carlos E.R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to alt.home.repair on Tue Nov 4 12:49:07 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    On 2025-11-04 07:02, Clare Snyder wrote:
    On Tue, 4 Nov 2025 02:22:13 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
    <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

    On 2025-11-04 00:10, Clare Snyder wrote:
    On Mon, 3 Nov 2025 23:18:36 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
    <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

    On 2025-11-03 14:34, Ed P wrote:
    My GPS for navigation knows where I am within about 10 feet, the local >>>>> radio station can be tuned for miles.

    My car radio has has RDS, which means my car can get the time
    automatically. It is useless, the stations have wrong time by hours and >>>> minutes.

    I have a desktop RDS receiver. It says it is now 18:43, when it is
    actually 23:17. On one of the important national wide radio networks.
    The shortwave radio time standards (like CHU in Canada) only
    broafcast "co-ordinated Universal Time" signals (which I believe are
    "Greenwich Mean Time) and are not location specific and do not handle
    daylight savings time. Local time and DST must be handled by
    programming in the recieving device - entered by the operator and not
    "portable" across time zones. GPS based time is fully portable and can
    determine if DST is applicable based on date and location - but would
    still require "updates" if DST was repealed in any geopolitical area.


    Yes, I can accept the clock in the radio having a different time zone.
    Easy to explain. But not when the minutes are 17 and it says 43. The
    minutes must match.
    It obviously has not synced for a while - - -

    The station has *never* synced.

    That's the point, that the station is not synced at all. Not that my
    radio is wrong. My radio is "correct".

    The guys that installed the station or the entire network never
    bothered, or the bosses did not paid for it, to have the clock in the
    RDS computer synced to some hardware to keep it accurate. So the station transmits a very wrong time. Which in a way is better than have a clock
    that "seems" correct. It is obvious that it is not adjusted at all.

    And all the stations I tried in Spain transmit the wrong time.

    Ok, the main network in Spain says now it is 12:41 hours, which is approximately correct. Today.


    The last one I had had
    a terrible time connecting to CHU - and was TERRIBLE at actually
    KEEPING time. Within a couple minutes a day was doing good. Trashed it
    a LONG time ago.
    Not like my old Seiko "little running man" watch that was accurate to
    less than a minute a year - like WAY less. The original battery lasted
    over 3 years and it was never out a minute spring or fall - and when I
    left it in my drawer for 2 years it was virtually dead on whe n I took
    it out to use it.
    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    ESEfc-Efc+, EUEfc-Efc|;
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Retirednoguilt@HapilyRetired@fakeaddress.com to alt.home.repair on Tue Nov 4 08:59:02 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    On 11/3/2025 5:18 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    On 2025-11-03 14:34, Ed P wrote:
    My GPS for navigation knows where I am within about 10 feet, the local
    radio station can be tuned for miles.

    My car radio has has RDS, which means my car can get the time
    automatically. It is useless, the stations have wrong time by hours and minutes.

    I have a desktop RDS receiver. It says it is now 18:43, when it is
    actually 23:17. On one of the important national wide radio networks.

    My Sangean desktop weather alert radio uses RDS to set time. Works
    perfectly, including changes from daylight saving to standard time and
    vice versa.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Retirednoguilt@HapilyRetired@fakeaddress.com to alt.home.repair on Tue Nov 4 09:05:50 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    On 11/4/2025 1:02 AM, Clare Snyder wrote:
    On Tue, 4 Nov 2025 02:22:13 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
    <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

    On 2025-11-04 00:10, Clare Snyder wrote:
    On Mon, 3 Nov 2025 23:18:36 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
    <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

    On 2025-11-03 14:34, Ed P wrote:
    My GPS for navigation knows where I am within about 10 feet, the local >>>>> radio station can be tuned for miles.

    My car radio has has RDS, which means my car can get the time
    automatically. It is useless, the stations have wrong time by hours and >>>> minutes.

    I have a desktop RDS receiver. It says it is now 18:43, when it is
    actually 23:17. On one of the important national wide radio networks.
    The shortwave radio time standards (like CHU in Canada) only
    broafcast "co-ordinated Universal Time" signals (which I believe are
    "Greenwich Mean Time) and are not location specific and do not handle
    daylight savings time. Local time and DST must be handled by
    programming in the recieving device - entered by the operator and not
    "portable" across time zones. GPS based time is fully portable and can
    determine if DST is applicable based on date and location - but would
    still require "updates" if DST was repealed in any geopolitical area.


    Yes, I can accept the clock in the radio having a different time zone.
    Easy to explain. But not when the minutes are 17 and it says 43. The
    minutes must match.
    It obviously has not synced for a while - - - The last one I had had
    a terrible time connecting to CHU - and was TERRIBLE at actually
    KEEPING time. Within a couple minutes a day was doing good. Trashed it
    a LONG time ago.
    Not like my old Seiko "little running man" watch that was accurate to
    less than a minute a year - like WAY less. The original battery lasted
    over 3 years and it was never out a minute spring or fall - and when I
    left it in my drawer for 2 years it was virtually dead on whe n I took
    it out to use it.
    I haven't needed to buy a watch battery in about 20 years. My 2
    watches and my wife's watch are all solar. We always leave them by a
    window when not being worn.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Retirednoguilt@HapilyRetired@fakeaddress.com to alt.home.repair on Tue Nov 4 09:10:57 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    On 11/3/2025 6:46 PM, Snag wrote:
    On 11/3/2025 4:14 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    On 2025-11-03 13:54, Retirednoguilt wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 4:47 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
    On Sun, 2 Nov 2025 11:04:56 -0500, Retirednoguilt
    <HapilyRetired@fakeaddress.com> wrote:

    On 11/2/2025 10:14 AM, Frank wrote:
    Not only did I have to change all the conventional clocks but even the >>>>>> atomics.-a My watch was OK but wall clock and clock above my desk >>>>>> worked
    with zone change.-a Smart watch required syncing with smart phone. >>>>>> PITA
    and I know we all hate it.

    I'd blame either WWV reception problems or weak batteries for the
    problem with 2/3 of your "atomic" clock issues.-a That assumes that both >>>>> of them have handled previous time change cycles correctly.-a If they >>>>> didn't, I'd wonder about their firmware.-a I've got 3 "atomic" time
    keeping devices, 2 of which are about 20 years old.-a All 3 continue to >>>>> deal flawlessly with the time changes despite my condo being in a steel >>>>> girder building and in located in rooms with screens on all the
    windows.
    I'm located in the mid-Atlantic in an urban/suburban neighborhood with >>>>> many nearby high rise buildings.
    -a-a with the advent of GPS the "smart clocks" can now tell exactly where >>>> they are and what the local time is to the decimal fraction of a
    second - - -but they do need to be able to "see" the sky to set
    themselves.

    I don't see any advantage of using GPS vs. radio signals to keep clocks
    and wrist watches properly set in almost all areas of the continental
    US, Japan, or western Europe where there are time calibration radio
    signal transmitters.

    Where I live in Europe, my radio clocks do not manage to sync every day,
    and they do so only during some nights. And if the battery is low, it
    may not sync in a month. Actually, sometimes is shows a time that is,
    for example, 4 hours 22 minutes off. A random amount off. I simply can
    not trust it.

    So my clocks would have to be WiFi or GPS. Not because I need GPS
    precision, but in order to have any sync and automation.



    I use a computer program called Atomtime to keep my computers
    synchronized . The cell auto-syncs , as does the landline . I haven't
    worn a watch in many years , my wife only wears one when we're out and
    about . The only times I care about are dinnertime and beer-thirty .

    My windows PCs time setting is taken from the wifi signal my
    modem/router gets from our internet service provider. Same story for
    our cable TV set top boxes, our Roku set top box, and for the time
    displayed on our "smart TV". No No supplemental programs required for
    any of those devices.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Carlos E.R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to alt.home.repair on Tue Nov 4 15:18:56 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    On 2025-11-04 14:59, Retirednoguilt wrote:
    On 11/3/2025 5:18 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    On 2025-11-03 14:34, Ed P wrote:
    My GPS for navigation knows where I am within about 10 feet, the local
    radio station can be tuned for miles.

    My car radio has has RDS, which means my car can get the time
    automatically. It is useless, the stations have wrong time by hours and
    minutes.

    I have a desktop RDS receiver. It says it is now 18:43, when it is
    actually 23:17. On one of the important national wide radio networks.

    My Sangean desktop weather alert radio uses RDS to set time. Works perfectly, including changes from daylight saving to standard time and
    vice versa.

    So, you live in a country where the stations do set the RDS clock
    correctly. I don't.
    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    ESEfc-Efc+, EUEfc-Efc|;
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Ed P@esp@snet.n to alt.home.repair on Tue Nov 4 09:46:31 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    On 11/4/2025 9:10 AM, Retirednoguilt wrote:


    My windows PCs time setting is taken from the wifi signal my
    modem/router gets from our internet service provider. Same story for
    our cable TV set top boxes, our Roku set top box, and for the time
    displayed on our "smart TV". No No supplemental programs required for
    any of those devices.

    All you need now is a Wi-Fi enabled microwave.

    My friend has a beach home and that is where I stay with her. Next week
    is the first visit since time change so I will reset the oven and
    microwave. I did that last visit in May. I'm thinking that may be the
    only reason she invites me.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Retirednoguilt@HapilyRetired@fakeaddress.com to alt.home.repair on Tue Nov 4 12:46:13 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    On 11/4/2025 9:46 AM, Ed P wrote:
    On 11/4/2025 9:10 AM, Retirednoguilt wrote:


    My windows PCs time setting is taken from the wifi signal my
    modem/router gets from our internet service provider. Same story for
    our cable TV set top boxes, our Roku set top box, and for the time
    displayed on our "smart TV". No No supplemental programs required for
    any of those devices.

    All you need now is a Wi-Fi enabled microwave.

    My friend has a beach home and that is where I stay with her. Next week
    is the first visit since time change so I will reset the oven and
    microwave. I did that last visit in May. I'm thinking that may be the
    only reason she invites me.

    I'm not a fan of "smart" home appliances. After many decades of
    practice, I know how to use "dumb" ones. The only feature I like is
    built into my dishwasher. It adds or removes rinse cycles depending on
    how turbid the water. If I keep the filters clean, the dishes reliably
    come out without any grunge. And, it takes me less than 1 minute each
    to set the digital clocks on my microwave and my wall oven. I've become
    very proficient because of the occasional power "blinks" we experienced
    for almost a year. It only takes about 1 second of no voltage and the
    clocks reset to 00:00. Cheap circuit boards. How much would it cost to
    add an electrolytic capacitor to provide backup voltage for maybe 5-6
    seconds? The power blinks were more common until very recently because
    our electric company was building a new substation about 1/2 mile from
    our building and apparently needed to periodically re-route main
    circuits when testing or connecting new sections of circuitry. Now that
    the construction is completed, we've gone about 3 months without a
    blink. Fingers crossed.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From frank@"frank "@frank.net to alt.home.repair on Tue Nov 4 13:05:58 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    On 11/4/2025 12:46 PM, Retirednoguilt wrote:
    On 11/4/2025 9:46 AM, Ed P wrote:
    On 11/4/2025 9:10 AM, Retirednoguilt wrote:


    My windows PCs time setting is taken from the wifi signal my
    modem/router gets from our internet service provider. Same story for
    our cable TV set top boxes, our Roku set top box, and for the time
    displayed on our "smart TV". No No supplemental programs required for
    any of those devices.

    All you need now is a Wi-Fi enabled microwave.

    My friend has a beach home and that is where I stay with her. Next week
    is the first visit since time change so I will reset the oven and
    microwave. I did that last visit in May. I'm thinking that may be the
    only reason she invites me.

    I'm not a fan of "smart" home appliances. After many decades of
    practice, I know how to use "dumb" ones. The only feature I like is
    built into my dishwasher. It adds or removes rinse cycles depending on
    how turbid the water. If I keep the filters clean, the dishes reliably
    come out without any grunge. And, it takes me less than 1 minute each
    to set the digital clocks on my microwave and my wall oven. I've become
    very proficient because of the occasional power "blinks" we experienced
    for almost a year. It only takes about 1 second of no voltage and the
    clocks reset to 00:00. Cheap circuit boards. How much would it cost to
    add an electrolytic capacitor to provide backup voltage for maybe 5-6 seconds? The power blinks were more common until very recently because
    our electric company was building a new substation about 1/2 mile from
    our building and apparently needed to periodically re-route main
    circuits when testing or connecting new sections of circuitry. Now that
    the construction is completed, we've gone about 3 months without a
    blink. Fingers crossed.

    Around here, a lot a trees, a lot of blinks. Alarm clocks in bedrooms, microwave, and stove all need resetting. Old Mr. Coffee had a clock.

    BTW my atomic watch is running three minutes fast. The hell with it.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Cindy Hamilton@chamilton5280@invalid.com to alt.home.repair on Tue Nov 4 18:35:04 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    On 2025-11-04, Retirednoguilt <HapilyRetired@fakeaddress.com> wrote:

    I haven't needed to buy a watch battery in about 20 years. My 2
    watches and my wife's watch are all solar. We always leave them by a
    window when not being worn.

    I stopped wearing a watch when I got a cellphone.
    --
    Cindy Hamilton
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Retirednoguilt@HapilyRetired@fakeaddress.com to alt.home.repair on Tue Nov 4 13:35:15 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    On 11/4/2025 1:05 PM, Frank wrote:


    BTW my atomic watch is running three minutes fast. The hell with it.

    If your atomic watch has both an analog (traditional clock face) dial as
    well as digital display, make sure to check the time on the digital
    display. My digital display has always been accurate to the second but occasionally the analog display doesn't agree. Check the manual for how
    to adjust the analog display so it agrees with the digital. Sometimes
    the tiny motor and gears that move the analog hands get pokey if the rechargeable battery in my solar watch needs charging (or, if you watch
    isn't solar, maybe your battery needs replacing).

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Ed P@esp@snet.n to alt.home.repair on Tue Nov 4 13:41:33 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    On 11/4/2025 1:35 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
    On 2025-11-04, Retirednoguilt <HapilyRetired@fakeaddress.com> wrote:

    I haven't needed to buy a watch battery in about 20 years. My 2
    watches and my wife's watch are all solar. We always leave them by a
    window when not being worn.

    I stopped wearing a watch when I got a cellphone.


    Same here. I'm sitting in the living room with my laptop and can see
    the time on it, also the cable box. Around the house, there are ten
    places to see the time, plus the car.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Cindy Hamilton@chamilton5280@invalid.com to alt.home.repair on Tue Nov 4 18:47:58 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    On 2025-11-04, Retirednoguilt <HapilyRetired@fakeaddress.com> wrote:
    On 11/4/2025 9:46 AM, Ed P wrote:
    On 11/4/2025 9:10 AM, Retirednoguilt wrote:


    My windows PCs time setting is taken from the wifi signal my
    modem/router gets from our internet service provider. Same story for
    our cable TV set top boxes, our Roku set top box, and for the time
    displayed on our "smart TV". No No supplemental programs required for
    any of those devices.

    All you need now is a Wi-Fi enabled microwave.

    My friend has a beach home and that is where I stay with her. Next week
    is the first visit since time change so I will reset the oven and
    microwave. I did that last visit in May. I'm thinking that may be the
    only reason she invites me.

    I'm not a fan of "smart" home appliances.

    Neither am I. However, the dishwasher that we decided on has next
    to nothing to set or display its features. I have to use an app
    on my phone to find out when it's out of rinse aid. I suppose I
    could top it up every week, but that sounds too much like work.
    --
    Cindy Hamilton
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From frank@"frank "@frank.net to alt.home.repair on Tue Nov 4 15:02:51 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    On 11/4/2025 1:35 PM, Retirednoguilt wrote:
    On 11/4/2025 1:05 PM, Frank wrote:


    BTW my atomic watch is running three minutes fast. The hell with it.

    If your atomic watch has both an analog (traditional clock face) dial as
    well as digital display, make sure to check the time on the digital
    display. My digital display has always been accurate to the second but occasionally the analog display doesn't agree. Check the manual for how
    to adjust the analog display so it agrees with the digital. Sometimes
    the tiny motor and gears that move the analog hands get pokey if the rechargeable battery in my solar watch needs charging (or, if you watch
    isn't solar, maybe your battery needs replacing).


    It is solar and only digital. I mentioned before that I just keep it on
    shelf below my lamp near computer. Must be around 20 years old and I do
    not know where the manual it. I could probably adjust it but do not
    wear it and don't want to spend the time on it. Years ago on a new car
    it must have taken me a half hour to figure out how to change the time.
    It is just annoying how some of these devices behave and prompted me to
    start the thread.

    Watch I wear now is a smart watch keyed to cell phone and much lighter
    than clunky atomic watch.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Snag@snag_one@msn.com to alt.home.repair on Tue Nov 4 14:44:37 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    On 11/4/2025 8:10 AM, Retirednoguilt wrote:
    On 11/3/2025 6:46 PM, Snag wrote:
    On 11/3/2025 4:14 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    On 2025-11-03 13:54, Retirednoguilt wrote:
    On 11/2/2025 4:47 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
    On Sun, 2 Nov 2025 11:04:56 -0500, Retirednoguilt
    <HapilyRetired@fakeaddress.com> wrote:

    On 11/2/2025 10:14 AM, Frank wrote:
    Not only did I have to change all the conventional clocks but even the >>>>>>> atomics.-a My watch was OK but wall clock and clock above my desk >>>>>>> worked
    with zone change.-a Smart watch required syncing with smart phone. >>>>>>> PITA
    and I know we all hate it.

    I'd blame either WWV reception problems or weak batteries for the
    problem with 2/3 of your "atomic" clock issues.-a That assumes that both >>>>>> of them have handled previous time change cycles correctly.-a If they >>>>>> didn't, I'd wonder about their firmware.-a I've got 3 "atomic" time >>>>>> keeping devices, 2 of which are about 20 years old.-a All 3 continue to >>>>>> deal flawlessly with the time changes despite my condo being in a steel >>>>>> girder building and in located in rooms with screens on all the
    windows.
    I'm located in the mid-Atlantic in an urban/suburban neighborhood with >>>>>> many nearby high rise buildings.
    -a-a with the advent of GPS the "smart clocks" can now tell exactly where
    they are and what the local time is to the decimal fraction of a
    second - - -but they do need to be able to "see" the sky to set
    themselves.

    I don't see any advantage of using GPS vs. radio signals to keep clocks >>>> and wrist watches properly set in almost all areas of the continental
    US, Japan, or western Europe where there are time calibration radio
    signal transmitters.

    Where I live in Europe, my radio clocks do not manage to sync every day, >>> and they do so only during some nights. And if the battery is low, it
    may not sync in a month. Actually, sometimes is shows a time that is,
    for example, 4 hours 22 minutes off. A random amount off. I simply can
    not trust it.

    So my clocks would have to be WiFi or GPS. Not because I need GPS
    precision, but in order to have any sync and automation.



    I use a computer program called Atomtime to keep my computers
    synchronized . The cell auto-syncs , as does the landline . I haven't
    worn a watch in many years , my wife only wears one when we're out and
    about . The only times I care about are dinnertime and beer-thirty .

    My windows PCs time setting is taken from the wifi signal my
    modem/router gets from our internet service provider. Same story for
    our cable TV set top boxes, our Roku set top box, and for the time
    displayed on our "smart TV". No No supplemental programs required for
    any of those devices.


    There is a Windows time sync , but it only updates like once a week .
    I got the Atomtime program like 25 years ago when I was deep into
    restoring old comps to give to the neighborhood kids . It was useful to
    check the timekeeping on those old boxes . (think P4 and older comps)
    --
    Snag
    I appreciated foreign cultures more
    when they stayed foreign ...
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Carlos E.R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to alt.home.repair on Tue Nov 4 22:53:23 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    On 2025-11-04 19:35, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
    On 2025-11-04, Retirednoguilt <HapilyRetired@fakeaddress.com> wrote:

    I haven't needed to buy a watch battery in about 20 years. My 2
    watches and my wife's watch are all solar. We always leave them by a
    window when not being worn.

    I stopped wearing a watch when I got a cellphone.

    I got back to wearing a watch years after they became smart and I
    realized that they were useful :-)
    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    ESEfc-Efc+, EUEfc-Efc|;
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jim Joyce@none@none.invalid to alt.home.repair on Wed Nov 5 00:05:10 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    On Tue, 4 Nov 2025 14:44:37 -0600, Snag <snag_one@msn.com> wrote:

    There is a Windows time sync , but it only updates like once a week .

    It's actually adjustable, either via the registry or via the task
    scheduler. The polling interval is measured in seconds, so you have a
    lot of fine control.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=make+windows+synchronize+time+more+often

    I got the Atomtime program like 25 years ago when I was deep into
    restoring old comps to give to the neighborhood kids . It was useful to >check the timekeeping on those old boxes . (think P4 and older comps)

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jim Joyce@none@none.invalid to alt.home.repair on Wed Nov 5 00:06:26 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    On Tue, 4 Nov 2025 22:53:23 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
    <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

    On 2025-11-04 19:35, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
    On 2025-11-04, Retirednoguilt <HapilyRetired@fakeaddress.com> wrote:

    I haven't needed to buy a watch battery in about 20 years. My 2
    watches and my wife's watch are all solar. We always leave them by a
    window when not being worn.

    I stopped wearing a watch when I got a cellphone.

    I got back to wearing a watch years after they became smart and I
    realized that they were useful :-)

    My last watch died in a motorcycle accident at 3:08PM on March 28, 1983.

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Carlos E.R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to alt.home.repair on Wed Nov 5 14:03:17 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    On 2025-11-05 07:06, Jim Joyce wrote:
    On Tue, 4 Nov 2025 22:53:23 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
    <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

    On 2025-11-04 19:35, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
    On 2025-11-04, Retirednoguilt <HapilyRetired@fakeaddress.com> wrote:

    I haven't needed to buy a watch battery in about 20 years. My 2
    watches and my wife's watch are all solar. We always leave them by a
    window when not being worn.

    I stopped wearing a watch when I got a cellphone.

    I got back to wearing a watch years after they became smart and I
    realized that they were useful :-)

    My last watch died in a motorcycle accident at 3:08PM on March 28, 1983.


    I guess I know how you know :-)
    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    ESEfc-Efc+, EUEfc-Efc|;
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Retirednoguilt@HapilyRetired@fakeaddress.com to alt.home.repair on Wed Nov 5 10:44:55 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    On 11/4/2025 1:47 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
    On 2025-11-04, Retirednoguilt <HapilyRetired@fakeaddress.com> wrote:
    On 11/4/2025 9:46 AM, Ed P wrote:
    On 11/4/2025 9:10 AM, Retirednoguilt wrote:


    My windows PCs time setting is taken from the wifi signal my
    modem/router gets from our internet service provider. Same story for
    our cable TV set top boxes, our Roku set top box, and for the time
    displayed on our "smart TV". No No supplemental programs required for >>>> any of those devices.

    All you need now is a Wi-Fi enabled microwave.

    My friend has a beach home and that is where I stay with her. Next week >>> is the first visit since time change so I will reset the oven and
    microwave. I did that last visit in May. I'm thinking that may be the >>> only reason she invites me.

    I'm not a fan of "smart" home appliances.

    Neither am I. However, the dishwasher that we decided on has next
    to nothing to set or display its features. I have to use an app
    on my phone to find out when it's out of rinse aid. I suppose I
    could top it up every week, but that sounds too much like work.


    Sometimes the old way is more reliable and less expensive. My
    dishwasher has a little plastic window in the rinse aid compartment. My
    rinse aid is bright blue. When the window shows a bright blue color, I
    know there's enough rinse aid for the next load. When it is black, it's
    time to refill the compartment. No circuit boards, sensors, apps
    required. Totally reliable.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Cindy Hamilton@chamilton5280@invalid.com to alt.home.repair on Wed Nov 5 17:58:51 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    On 2025-11-05, Retirednoguilt <HapilyRetired@fakeaddress.com> wrote:
    On 11/4/2025 1:47 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
    On 2025-11-04, Retirednoguilt <HapilyRetired@fakeaddress.com> wrote:
    On 11/4/2025 9:46 AM, Ed P wrote:
    On 11/4/2025 9:10 AM, Retirednoguilt wrote:


    My windows PCs time setting is taken from the wifi signal my
    modem/router gets from our internet service provider. Same story for >>>>> our cable TV set top boxes, our Roku set top box, and for the time
    displayed on our "smart TV". No No supplemental programs required for >>>>> any of those devices.

    All you need now is a Wi-Fi enabled microwave.

    My friend has a beach home and that is where I stay with her. Next week >>>> is the first visit since time change so I will reset the oven and
    microwave. I did that last visit in May. I'm thinking that may be the >>>> only reason she invites me.

    I'm not a fan of "smart" home appliances.

    Neither am I. However, the dishwasher that we decided on has next
    to nothing to set or display its features. I have to use an app
    on my phone to find out when it's out of rinse aid. I suppose I
    could top it up every week, but that sounds too much like work.


    Sometimes the old way is more reliable and less expensive.

    Less expensive for us. Less profitable for dishwasher manufacturers.

    I just ordered a new fridge. It was difficult to find a french-door
    fridge with icemaker and without ice or water dispenser.

    My
    dishwasher has a little plastic window in the rinse aid compartment. My rinse aid is bright blue. When the window shows a bright blue color, I
    know there's enough rinse aid for the next load. When it is black, it's
    time to refill the compartment. No circuit boards, sensors, apps
    required. Totally reliable.

    Yes, I wish my dishwasher had that. But we never choose a dishwasher
    because it has an inspection port for rinse aid.

    I chose for reliability. We'll see how that goes. It's only
    coming up on its first birthday.
    --
    Cindy Hamilton
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Carlos E.R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to alt.home.repair on Wed Nov 5 20:48:01 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    On 2025-11-05 18:58, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
    On 2025-11-05, Retirednoguilt <HapilyRetired@fakeaddress.com> wrote:


    My
    dishwasher has a little plastic window in the rinse aid compartment. My
    rinse aid is bright blue. When the window shows a bright blue color, I
    know there's enough rinse aid for the next load. When it is black, it's
    time to refill the compartment. No circuit boards, sensors, apps
    required. Totally reliable.

    Yes, I wish my dishwasher had that. But we never choose a dishwasher
    because it has an inspection port for rinse aid.

    Our old dishwasher machine (bought before 1980) has that thing, but you
    have to open the main door and look at a piece in the basin.
    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    ESEfc-Efc+, EUEfc-Efc|;
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jim Joyce@none@none.invalid to alt.home.repair on Wed Nov 5 15:26:46 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    On Wed, 5 Nov 2025 17:58:51 -0000 (UTC), Cindy Hamilton <chamilton5280@invalid.com> wrote:

    On 2025-11-05, Retirednoguilt <HapilyRetired@fakeaddress.com> wrote:
    My
    dishwasher has a little plastic window in the rinse aid compartment. My
    rinse aid is bright blue. When the window shows a bright blue color, I
    know there's enough rinse aid for the next load. When it is black, it's
    time to refill the compartment. No circuit boards, sensors, apps
    required. Totally reliable.

    Yes, I wish my dishwasher had that. But we never choose a dishwasher
    because it has an inspection port for rinse aid.

    I chose for reliability. We'll see how that goes. It's only
    coming up on its first birthday.

    Speaking of dishwashers, I recently read a 'housing trends' article that
    said that builders are increasingly skipping the dishwasher in new
    builds, opting instead to put the microwave down in the cabinet, thus
    clearing the space above the stove for a traditional hood.

    At my house, we run the dishwasher only about once a month, but we use
    it daily as a drying rack.

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jim Joyce@none@none.invalid to alt.home.repair on Wed Nov 5 15:28:10 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    On Wed, 5 Nov 2025 14:03:17 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
    <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

    On 2025-11-05 07:06, Jim Joyce wrote:
    On Tue, 4 Nov 2025 22:53:23 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
    <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

    On 2025-11-04 19:35, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
    On 2025-11-04, Retirednoguilt <HapilyRetired@fakeaddress.com> wrote:

    I haven't needed to buy a watch battery in about 20 years. My 2
    watches and my wife's watch are all solar. We always leave them by a >>>>> window when not being worn.

    I stopped wearing a watch when I got a cellphone.

    I got back to wearing a watch years after they became smart and I
    realized that they were useful :-)

    My last watch died in a motorcycle accident at 3:08PM on March 28, 1983.


    I guess I know how you know :-)

    Yeah, sometimes watches are good like that.

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From badgolferman@REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com to alt.home.repair on Wed Nov 5 16:45:23 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    On 11/05/2025 16:26, Jim Joyce wrote:
    On Wed, 5 Nov 2025 17:58:51 -0000 (UTC), Cindy Hamilton <chamilton5280@invalid.com> wrote:

    On 2025-11-05, Retirednoguilt <HapilyRetired@fakeaddress.com> wrote:
    My
    dishwasher has a little plastic window in the rinse aid compartment. My >>> rinse aid is bright blue. When the window shows a bright blue color, I
    know there's enough rinse aid for the next load. When it is black, it's >>> time to refill the compartment. No circuit boards, sensors, apps
    required. Totally reliable.

    Yes, I wish my dishwasher had that. But we never choose a dishwasher
    because it has an inspection port for rinse aid.

    I chose for reliability. We'll see how that goes. It's only
    coming up on its first birthday.

    Speaking of dishwashers, I recently read a 'housing trends' article that
    said that builders are increasingly skipping the dishwasher in new
    builds, opting instead to put the microwave down in the cabinet, thus clearing the space above the stove for a traditional hood.

    At my house, we run the dishwasher only about once a month, but we use
    it daily as a drying rack.


    We use our dishwasher daily. It's almost always completely full to the
    point where some pots have to be washed by hand to make room for
    everything else.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Cindy Hamilton@chamilton5280@invalid.com to alt.home.repair on Wed Nov 5 22:46:00 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    On 2025-11-05, Jim Joyce <none@none.invalid> wrote:
    On Wed, 5 Nov 2025 17:58:51 -0000 (UTC), Cindy Hamilton
    <chamilton5280@invalid.com> wrote:

    On 2025-11-05, Retirednoguilt <HapilyRetired@fakeaddress.com> wrote:
    My
    dishwasher has a little plastic window in the rinse aid compartment. My >>> rinse aid is bright blue. When the window shows a bright blue color, I
    know there's enough rinse aid for the next load. When it is black, it's >>> time to refill the compartment. No circuit boards, sensors, apps
    required. Totally reliable.

    Yes, I wish my dishwasher had that. But we never choose a dishwasher >>because it has an inspection port for rinse aid.

    I chose for reliability. We'll see how that goes. It's only
    coming up on its first birthday.

    Speaking of dishwashers, I recently read a 'housing trends' article that
    said that builders are increasingly skipping the dishwasher in new
    builds, opting instead to put the microwave down in the cabinet, thus clearing the space above the stove for a traditional hood.

    I guess people who only microwave frozen meals don't need a
    dishwasher.

    What do they do when the microwave dies?

    We had a microwave over the stove when we moved in. A few years
    later we got rid of it and put in a proper vent hood. My husband
    built a shelf for a smaller microwave above the base cabinet next
    to the stove. When his shoulder crapped out and he didn't want
    to reach up to grab hot stuff out of the microwave, we moved the
    microwave down to the countertop.

    At my house, we run the dishwasher only about once a month, but we use
    it daily as a drying rack.

    We run the dishwasher every day. Only sharp knives and nonstick
    pans are washed by hand.
    --
    Cindy Hamilton
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Ed P@esp@snet.n to alt.home.repair on Wed Nov 5 19:01:10 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    On 11/5/2025 4:26 PM, Jim Joyce wrote:
    On Wed, 5 Nov 2025 17:58:51 -0000 (UTC), Cindy Hamilton <chamilton5280@invalid.com> wrote:

    On 2025-11-05, Retirednoguilt <HapilyRetired@fakeaddress.com> wrote:
    My
    dishwasher has a little plastic window in the rinse aid compartment. My >>> rinse aid is bright blue. When the window shows a bright blue color, I
    know there's enough rinse aid for the next load. When it is black, it's >>> time to refill the compartment. No circuit boards, sensors, apps
    required. Totally reliable.

    Yes, I wish my dishwasher had that. But we never choose a dishwasher
    because it has an inspection port for rinse aid.

    I chose for reliability. We'll see how that goes. It's only
    coming up on its first birthday.

    Speaking of dishwashers, I recently read a 'housing trends' article that
    said that builders are increasingly skipping the dishwasher in new
    builds, opting instead to put the microwave down in the cabinet, thus clearing the space above the stove for a traditional hood.

    At my house, we run the dishwasher only about once a month, but we use
    it daily as a drying rack.


    It is just me now and I run it once or twice a week. I've had one for
    over 50 years, not giving it up.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From hubops@hubops@ccanoemail.com to alt.home.repair on Wed Nov 5 19:22:17 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair



    I guess people who only microwave frozen meals don't need a
    dishwasher.
    What do they do when the microwave dies?

    We run the dishwasher every day. Only sharp knives and nonstick
    pans are washed by hand.



    I'll challenge the implication / stereotype of people
    who eschew dishwashers as people who eat frozen dinners.

    Many of us grew up in conditions where dishwashers were
    a rich person's appliance and we had well-water systems
    and septic syatems that couldn't support such things.
    We carried those ideas into adulthood and found it difficult
    to justify the wastage - water and energy -
    associated with such luxury appliances.
    It has nothing to do with a lazy meal lifestyle.

    When we were a family of 5 we'd use the dishwasher
    ~ 6 times per year - busy times when we had company.
    As empty nesters - ~ once or twice per year.
    We never cook in the microwave - just warming-up
    leftovers or occasionally thawing something.
    I'm pretty sure our 3 kids' families use their dishwashers
    daily - despite their history - with modern busy 2 career
    parents with umpteen kids' activities ...
    John T.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jim Joyce@none@none.invalid to alt.home.repair on Wed Nov 5 21:37:20 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    On Wed, 5 Nov 2025 19:01:10 -0500, Ed P <esp@snet.n> wrote:

    On 11/5/2025 4:26 PM, Jim Joyce wrote:
    On Wed, 5 Nov 2025 17:58:51 -0000 (UTC), Cindy Hamilton
    <chamilton5280@invalid.com> wrote:

    On 2025-11-05, Retirednoguilt <HapilyRetired@fakeaddress.com> wrote:
    My
    dishwasher has a little plastic window in the rinse aid compartment. My >>>> rinse aid is bright blue. When the window shows a bright blue color, I >>>> know there's enough rinse aid for the next load. When it is black, it's >>>> time to refill the compartment. No circuit boards, sensors, apps
    required. Totally reliable.

    Yes, I wish my dishwasher had that. But we never choose a dishwasher
    because it has an inspection port for rinse aid.

    I chose for reliability. We'll see how that goes. It's only
    coming up on its first birthday.

    Speaking of dishwashers, I recently read a 'housing trends' article that
    said that builders are increasingly skipping the dishwasher in new
    builds, opting instead to put the microwave down in the cabinet, thus
    clearing the space above the stove for a traditional hood.

    At my house, we run the dishwasher only about once a month, but we use
    it daily as a drying rack.


    It is just me now and I run it once or twice a week. I've had one for
    over 50 years, not giving it up.

    For as little as we use ours, we could easily give it up. Another thing
    we could give up is the garbage disposal. I've never used a garbage
    disposal in my life but my wife says she uses it every 1-3 years.

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Ed P@esp@snet.n to alt.home.repair on Wed Nov 5 22:52:22 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    On 11/5/2025 10:37 PM, Jim Joyce wrote:

    At my house, we run the dishwasher only about once a month, but we use
    it daily as a drying rack.


    It is just me now and I run it once or twice a week. I've had one for
    over 50 years, not giving it up.

    For as little as we use ours, we could easily give it up. Another thing
    we could give up is the garbage disposal. I've never used a garbage
    disposal in my life but my wife says she uses it every 1-3 years.


    I use is frequently, but not with a lot of bulk. Handy when rinsing a
    dish after a meal, the lemon peel from my tea. I don't use it for egg
    shells and potential drain clogs.

    My parents had one and when I bought my first house in 1966, I put one
    in there,
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Clare Snyder@clare@snyder.on.ca to alt.home.repair on Wed Nov 5 23:27:48 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    On Tue, 4 Nov 2025 09:05:50 -0500, Retirednoguilt <HapilyRetired@fakeaddress.com> wrote:

    On 11/4/2025 1:02 AM, Clare Snyder wrote:
    On Tue, 4 Nov 2025 02:22:13 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
    <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

    On 2025-11-04 00:10, Clare Snyder wrote:
    On Mon, 3 Nov 2025 23:18:36 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
    <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

    On 2025-11-03 14:34, Ed P wrote:
    My GPS for navigation knows where I am within about 10 feet, the local >>>>>> radio station can be tuned for miles.

    My car radio has has RDS, which means my car can get the time
    automatically. It is useless, the stations have wrong time by hours and >>>>> minutes.

    I have a desktop RDS receiver. It says it is now 18:43, when it is
    actually 23:17. On one of the important national wide radio networks. >>>> The shortwave radio time standards (like CHU in Canada) only
    broafcast "co-ordinated Universal Time" signals (which I believe are
    "Greenwich Mean Time) and are not location specific and do not handle
    daylight savings time. Local time and DST must be handled by
    programming in the recieving device - entered by the operator and not
    "portable" across time zones. GPS based time is fully portable and can >>>> determine if DST is applicable based on date and location - but would
    still require "updates" if DST was repealed in any geopolitical area.


    Yes, I can accept the clock in the radio having a different time zone.
    Easy to explain. But not when the minutes are 17 and it says 43. The
    minutes must match.
    It obviously has not synced for a while - - - The last one I had had
    a terrible time connecting to CHU - and was TERRIBLE at actually
    KEEPING time. Within a couple minutes a day was doing good. Trashed it
    a LONG time ago.
    Not like my old Seiko "little running man" watch that was accurate to
    less than a minute a year - like WAY less. The original battery lasted
    over 3 years and it was never out a minute spring or fall - and when I
    left it in my drawer for 2 years it was virtually dead on whe n I took
    it out to use it.
    I haven't needed to buy a watch battery in about 20 years. My 2
    watches and my wife's watch are all solar. We always leave them by a
    window when not being worn.
    would not work for me because the only time I take it off is if I am
    doing something dangerous where it could get caught or short out
    electricity, oe when I'm in the shower.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Clare Snyder@clare@snyder.on.ca to alt.home.repair on Wed Nov 5 23:34:12 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    On Wed, 5 Nov 2025 17:58:51 -0000 (UTC), Cindy Hamilton <chamilton5280@invalid.com> wrote:

    On 2025-11-05, Retirednoguilt <HapilyRetired@fakeaddress.com> wrote:
    On 11/4/2025 1:47 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
    On 2025-11-04, Retirednoguilt <HapilyRetired@fakeaddress.com> wrote:
    On 11/4/2025 9:46 AM, Ed P wrote:
    On 11/4/2025 9:10 AM, Retirednoguilt wrote:


    My windows PCs time setting is taken from the wifi signal my
    modem/router gets from our internet service provider. Same story for >>>>>> our cable TV set top boxes, our Roku set top box, and for the time >>>>>> displayed on our "smart TV". No No supplemental programs required for >>>>>> any of those devices.

    All you need now is a Wi-Fi enabled microwave.

    My friend has a beach home and that is where I stay with her. Next week >>>>> is the first visit since time change so I will reset the oven and
    microwave. I did that last visit in May. I'm thinking that may be the >>>>> only reason she invites me.

    I'm not a fan of "smart" home appliances.

    Neither am I. However, the dishwasher that we decided on has next
    to nothing to set or display its features. I have to use an app
    on my phone to find out when it's out of rinse aid. I suppose I
    could top it up every week, but that sounds too much like work.


    Sometimes the old way is more reliable and less expensive.

    Less expensive for us. Less profitable for dishwasher manufacturers.

    I just ordered a new fridge. It was difficult to find a french-door
    fridge with icemaker and without ice or water dispenser.

    My
    dishwasher has a little plastic window in the rinse aid compartment. My
    rinse aid is bright blue. When the window shows a bright blue color, I
    know there's enough rinse aid for the next load. When it is black, it's
    time to refill the compartment. No circuit boards, sensors, apps
    required. Totally reliable.

    Yes, I wish my dishwasher had that. But we never choose a dishwasher
    because it has an inspection port for rinse aid.

    I chose for reliability. We'll see how that goes. It's only
    coming up on its first birthday.
    My wife's dishwasher just celebrated it's 73rd birthday and it has
    only broken down twice. The only problem is she complains it tends to
    be "kick start" - - -
    She exagerates, of course - she has never had to 'Kick" it put she
    sometimes resorts to prodding - - - -
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Jim Joyce@none@none.invalid to alt.home.repair on Thu Nov 6 02:42:54 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    On Wed, 5 Nov 2025 22:52:22 -0500, Ed P <esp@snet.n> wrote:

    On 11/5/2025 10:37 PM, Jim Joyce wrote:

    At my house, we run the dishwasher only about once a month, but we use >>>> it daily as a drying rack.


    It is just me now and I run it once or twice a week. I've had one for
    over 50 years, not giving it up.

    For as little as we use ours, we could easily give it up. Another thing
    we could give up is the garbage disposal. I've never used a garbage
    disposal in my life but my wife says she uses it every 1-3 years.


    I use is frequently, but not with a lot of bulk. Handy when rinsing a
    dish after a meal, the lemon peel from my tea. I don't use it for egg >shells and potential drain clogs.

    My parents had one and when I bought my first house in 1966, I put one
    in there,

    I've read that the best things to put down a garbage disposal to keep it
    clean are egg shells and ice cubes. One of the worst things are potato
    peels.

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Cindy Hamilton@chamilton5280@invalid.com to alt.home.repair on Thu Nov 6 10:10:26 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    On 2025-11-06, hubops@ccanoemail.com <hubops@ccanoemail.com> wrote:


    I guess people who only microwave frozen meals don't need a
    dishwasher.
    What do they do when the microwave dies?

    We run the dishwasher every day. Only sharp knives and nonstick
    pans are washed by hand.



    I'll challenge the implication / stereotype of people
    who eschew dishwashers as people who eat frozen dinners.

    The implication does not run both ways.

    People who don't cook don't need dishwashers does not imply
    People who don't use dishwashers don't cook.
    --
    Cindy Hamilton
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Carlos E.R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to alt.home.repair on Thu Nov 6 12:27:17 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    On 2025-11-06 01:22, hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:


    I guess people who only microwave frozen meals don't need a
    dishwasher.
    What do they do when the microwave dies?

    We run the dishwasher every day. Only sharp knives and nonstick
    pans are washed by hand.



    I'll challenge the implication / stereotype of people
    who eschew dishwashers as people who eat frozen dinners.

    My parents bought a dishwasher. My father insisted, my mother was not convinced. Somewhere before 1980, early models here.

    It used a lot of electricity, maybe 2500W. A lot for here and the time.
    It was very noisy, it roared. It took days to fill it up, so we had to
    buy more dishes. After some years we stopped using it.

    So I'm biased into considering it a useless appliance. And the house has
    two wash basins, something very rare nowdays, but makes washing up
    easier and faster.

    Besides, if I eat frozen food, the kind I buy has to be heated on a pan, preferably. And poured on a dish and eaten with fork or spoon, maybe
    knife. I don't see how that means I don't need to wash up.
    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    ESEfc-Efc+, EUEfc-Efc|;
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Cindy Hamilton@chamilton5280@invalid.com to alt.home.repair on Thu Nov 6 13:27:34 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    On 2025-11-06, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
    On 2025-11-06 01:22, hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:


    I guess people who only microwave frozen meals don't need a
    dishwasher.
    What do they do when the microwave dies?

    We run the dishwasher every day. Only sharp knives and nonstick
    pans are washed by hand.



    I'll challenge the implication / stereotype of people
    who eschew dishwashers as people who eat frozen dinners.

    My parents bought a dishwasher. My father insisted, my mother was not convinced. Somewhere before 1980, early models here.

    It used a lot of electricity, maybe 2500W. A lot for here and the time.
    It was very noisy, it roared. It took days to fill it up, so we had to
    buy more dishes. After some years we stopped using it.

    So I'm biased into considering it a useless appliance. And the house has
    two wash basins, something very rare nowdays, but makes washing up
    easier and faster.

    Besides, if I eat frozen food, the kind I buy has to be heated on a pan, preferably. And poured on a dish and eaten with fork or spoon, maybe
    knife. I don't see how that means I don't need to wash up.

    Most frozen meals here come in plastic trays that can (and do)
    go in the microwave. I'm quite confident that millions of
    people lick the fork or spoon clean and call it good.
    --
    Cindy Hamilton
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Carlos E.R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to alt.home.repair on Thu Nov 6 15:31:48 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    On 2025-11-06 14:27, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
    On 2025-11-06, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
    On 2025-11-06 01:22, hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:


    I guess people who only microwave frozen meals don't need a
    dishwasher.
    What do they do when the microwave dies?

    We run the dishwasher every day. Only sharp knives and nonstick
    pans are washed by hand.



    I'll challenge the implication / stereotype of people
    who eschew dishwashers as people who eat frozen dinners.

    My parents bought a dishwasher. My father insisted, my mother was not
    convinced. Somewhere before 1980, early models here.

    It used a lot of electricity, maybe 2500W. A lot for here and the time.
    It was very noisy, it roared. It took days to fill it up, so we had to
    buy more dishes. After some years we stopped using it.

    So I'm biased into considering it a useless appliance. And the house has
    two wash basins, something very rare nowdays, but makes washing up
    easier and faster.

    Besides, if I eat frozen food, the kind I buy has to be heated on a pan,
    preferably. And poured on a dish and eaten with fork or spoon, maybe
    knife. I don't see how that means I don't need to wash up.

    Most frozen meals here come in plastic trays that can (and do)
    go in the microwave. I'm quite confident that millions of
    people lick the fork or spoon clean and call it good.


    There are some like that, but at least where I buy most are not frozen,
    just cold. I usually remove the food from the plastic and heat on a
    safer glass container of similar size. I don't trust food on hot
    plastic, not healthy.
    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    ESEfc-Efc+, EUEfc-Efc|;
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Ed P@esp@snet.n to alt.home.repair on Thu Nov 6 11:11:55 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    On 11/5/2025 11:34 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:


    I chose for reliability. We'll see how that goes. It's only
    coming up on its first birthday.

    My wife's dishwasher just celebrated it's 73rd birthday and it has
    only broken down twice. The only problem is she complains it tends to
    be "kick start" - - -
    She exagerates, of course - she has never had to 'Kick" it put she
    sometimes resorts to prodding - - - -


    Does it have any trade in value towards a newer model?
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Cindy Hamilton@chamilton5280@invalid.com to alt.home.repair on Thu Nov 6 16:27:52 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    On 2025-11-06, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
    On 2025-11-06 14:27, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
    On 2025-11-06, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
    On 2025-11-06 01:22, hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:


    I guess people who only microwave frozen meals don't need a
    dishwasher.
    What do they do when the microwave dies?

    We run the dishwasher every day. Only sharp knives and nonstick
    pans are washed by hand.



    I'll challenge the implication / stereotype of people
    who eschew dishwashers as people who eat frozen dinners.

    My parents bought a dishwasher. My father insisted, my mother was not
    convinced. Somewhere before 1980, early models here.

    It used a lot of electricity, maybe 2500W. A lot for here and the time.
    It was very noisy, it roared. It took days to fill it up, so we had to
    buy more dishes. After some years we stopped using it.

    So I'm biased into considering it a useless appliance. And the house has >>> two wash basins, something very rare nowdays, but makes washing up
    easier and faster.

    Besides, if I eat frozen food, the kind I buy has to be heated on a pan, >>> preferably. And poured on a dish and eaten with fork or spoon, maybe
    knife. I don't see how that means I don't need to wash up.

    Most frozen meals here come in plastic trays that can (and do)
    go in the microwave. I'm quite confident that millions of
    people lick the fork or spoon clean and call it good.


    There are some like that, but at least where I buy most are not frozen,
    just cold. I usually remove the food from the plastic and heat on a
    safer glass container of similar size. I don't trust food on hot
    plastic, not healthy.

    I generally don't microwave in plastic. A few months ago I had
    some dental surgery and ended up buying an assortment of frozen
    meals because they were soft food and didn't require a lot of effort.
    I nuked them in the plastic tray, figuring a half dozen instances
    of plastic poisoning wouldn't materially alter my health or
    lifespan.

    When we were remodeling the kitchen, I got some pressed-paper
    bowls for my morning oatmeal.
    --
    Cindy Hamilton
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Retirednoguilt@HapilyRetired@fakeaddress.com to alt.home.repair on Thu Nov 6 12:10:42 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    On 11/5/2025 2:48 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    On 2025-11-05 18:58, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
    On 2025-11-05, Retirednoguilt <HapilyRetired@fakeaddress.com> wrote:


    My
    dishwasher has a little plastic window in the rinse aid compartment. My >>> rinse aid is bright blue. When the window shows a bright blue color, I
    know there's enough rinse aid for the next load. When it is black, it's >>> time to refill the compartment. No circuit boards, sensors, apps
    required. Totally reliable.

    Yes, I wish my dishwasher had that. But we never choose a dishwasher
    because it has an inspection port for rinse aid.

    Our old dishwasher machine (bought before 1980) has that thing, but you
    have to open the main door and look at a piece in the basin.

    True. but don't you have to open the main door to empty the dishwasher?
    That's when I glance at the window to see if the rinse aid dispenser
    needs refilling. If it does, I do it then. And, at least with every dishwasher I've ever used, the main door also needs to be opened to fill
    the dish washing detergent compartment before running a wash cycle.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Retirednoguilt@HapilyRetired@fakeaddress.com to alt.home.repair on Thu Nov 6 12:16:57 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    On 11/5/2025 7:22 PM, hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:


    I guess people who only microwave frozen meals don't need a
    dishwasher.
    What do they do when the microwave dies?

    We run the dishwasher every day. Only sharp knives and nonstick
    pans are washed by hand.



    I'll challenge the implication / stereotype of people
    who eschew dishwashers as people who eat frozen dinners.

    Many of us grew up in conditions where dishwashers were
    a rich person's appliance and we had well-water systems
    and septic syatems that couldn't support such things.
    We carried those ideas into adulthood and found it difficult
    to justify the wastage - water and energy -
    associated with such luxury appliances.
    It has nothing to do with a lazy meal lifestyle.

    When we were a family of 5 we'd use the dishwasher
    ~ 6 times per year - busy times when we had company.
    As empty nesters - ~ once or twice per year.
    We never cook in the microwave - just warming-up
    leftovers or occasionally thawing something.
    I'm pretty sure our 3 kids' families use their dishwashers
    daily - despite their history - with modern busy 2 career
    parents with umpteen kids' activities ...
    John T.

    For quite a few years, and certainly now, dishwashers, if used when
    full, require much less water that when washing and rinsing the
    equivalent number of dishes by hand.

    See: https://prudentreviews.com/how-much-water-does-a-dishwasher-use/

    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From hubops@hubops@ccanoemail.com to alt.home.repair on Thu Nov 6 16:50:43 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair



    For quite a few years, and certainly now, dishwashers, if used when
    full, require much less water that when washing and rinsing the
    equivalent number of dishes by hand.



    But when it takes a week to fill the dishwasher,
    and it needs to be run twice to get things clean ..
    energy savings disappear - and my fav sleepy-guy
    coffee mug has been unavailable that whole time !
    We're planning a kitchen reno - we'll leave the
    plumbing for the dishwasher available for future
    homeowners but replace the space with some storage
    drawers.
    John T.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Ed P@esp@snet.n to alt.home.repair on Thu Nov 6 17:33:24 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    On 11/6/2025 4:50 PM, hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:


    For quite a few years, and certainly now, dishwashers, if used when
    full, require much less water that when washing and rinsing the
    equivalent number of dishes by hand.



    But when it takes a week to fill the dishwasher,
    and it needs to be run twice to get things clean ..
    energy savings disappear - and my fav sleepy-guy
    coffee mug has been unavailable that whole time !
    We're planning a kitchen reno - we'll leave the
    plumbing for the dishwasher available for future
    homeowners but replace the space with some storage
    drawers.
    John T.

    Twice? Mine often sits a week too and everything comes out spotless. I
    use Cascade Platinum pods and they work every time.

    The house came with a GE and it works well, but my preference if buying
    new would be Kitchen Aid. They always did a great job too.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Cindy Hamilton@chamilton5280@invalid.com to alt.home.repair on Thu Nov 6 22:45:48 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    On 2025-11-06, hubops@ccanoemail.com <hubops@ccanoemail.com> wrote:


    For quite a few years, and certainly now, dishwashers, if used when
    full, require much less water that when washing and rinsing the
    equivalent number of dishes by hand.



    But when it takes a week to fill the dishwasher,
    and it needs to be run twice to get things clean ..

    Don't you cook? We fill and run the dishwasher once a day for
    the two of us.
    --
    Cindy Hamilton
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Cindy Hamilton@chamilton5280@invalid.com to alt.home.repair on Thu Nov 6 22:47:07 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    On 2025-11-06, Ed P <esp@snet.n> wrote:
    On 11/6/2025 4:50 PM, hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:


    For quite a few years, and certainly now, dishwashers, if used when
    full, require much less water that when washing and rinsing the
    equivalent number of dishes by hand.



    But when it takes a week to fill the dishwasher,
    and it needs to be run twice to get things clean ..
    energy savings disappear - and my fav sleepy-guy
    coffee mug has been unavailable that whole time !
    We're planning a kitchen reno - we'll leave the
    plumbing for the dishwasher available for future
    homeowners but replace the space with some storage
    drawers.
    John T.

    Twice? Mine often sits a week too and everything comes out spotless. I
    use Cascade Platinum pods and they work every time.

    The house came with a GE and it works well, but my preference if buying
    new would be Kitchen Aid. They always did a great job too.

    We had a late-model Kitchenaid and shitcanned it after four months.
    On the bottom, in the front, it had a very shallow drip tray with a
    float and a pump. The damned thing was designed to leak.
    --
    Cindy Hamilton
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From badgolferman@REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com to alt.home.repair on Thu Nov 6 22:52:54 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    Cindy Hamilton wrote:

    The house came with a GE and it works well, but my preference if
    buying new would be Kitchen Aid. They always did a great job too.

    We had a late-model Kitchenaid and shitcanned it after four months.
    On the bottom, in the front, it had a very shallow drip tray with a
    float and a pump. The damned thing was designed to leak.

    We've had good luck with Whirlpool dishwashers.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Ed P@esp@snet.n to alt.home.repair on Thu Nov 6 19:59:40 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    On 11/6/2025 5:47 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
    On 2025-11-06, Ed P <esp@snet.n> wrote:
    On 11/6/2025 4:50 PM, hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:


    For quite a few years, and certainly now, dishwashers, if used when
    full, require much less water that when washing and rinsing the
    equivalent number of dishes by hand.



    But when it takes a week to fill the dishwasher,
    and it needs to be run twice to get things clean ..
    energy savings disappear - and my fav sleepy-guy
    coffee mug has been unavailable that whole time !
    We're planning a kitchen reno - we'll leave the
    plumbing for the dishwasher available for future
    homeowners but replace the space with some storage
    drawers.
    John T.

    Twice? Mine often sits a week too and everything comes out spotless. I
    use Cascade Platinum pods and they work every time.

    The house came with a GE and it works well, but my preference if buying
    new would be Kitchen Aid. They always did a great job too.

    We had a late-model Kitchenaid and shitcanned it after four months.
    On the bottom, in the front, it had a very shallow drip tray with a
    float and a pump. The damned thing was designed to leak.


    Maybe things changed, but had three of them in two houses over many
    years and all were excellent.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Cindy Hamilton@chamilton5280@invalid.com to alt.home.repair on Fri Nov 7 09:50:03 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    On 2025-11-07, Ed P <esp@snet.n> wrote:
    On 11/6/2025 5:47 PM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
    On 2025-11-06, Ed P <esp@snet.n> wrote:
    On 11/6/2025 4:50 PM, hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:


    For quite a few years, and certainly now, dishwashers, if used when
    full, require much less water that when washing and rinsing the
    equivalent number of dishes by hand.



    But when it takes a week to fill the dishwasher,
    and it needs to be run twice to get things clean ..
    energy savings disappear - and my fav sleepy-guy
    coffee mug has been unavailable that whole time !
    We're planning a kitchen reno - we'll leave the
    plumbing for the dishwasher available for future
    homeowners but replace the space with some storage
    drawers.
    John T.

    Twice? Mine often sits a week too and everything comes out spotless. I >>> use Cascade Platinum pods and they work every time.

    The house came with a GE and it works well, but my preference if buying
    new would be Kitchen Aid. They always did a great job too.

    We had a late-model Kitchenaid and shitcanned it after four months.
    On the bottom, in the front, it had a very shallow drip tray with a
    float and a pump. The damned thing was designed to leak.


    Maybe things changed, but had three of them in two houses over many
    years and all were excellent.

    I think they had a design change in the last few years. My
    mother's Kitchenaid (purchased in 2022 or 2023) didn't have that
    misfeature. Mine (purchased in 2024) did.
    --
    Cindy Hamilton
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Carlos E.R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to alt.home.repair on Fri Nov 7 13:37:29 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    On 2025-11-06 18:10, Retirednoguilt wrote:
    On 11/5/2025 2:48 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    On 2025-11-05 18:58, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
    On 2025-11-05, Retirednoguilt <HapilyRetired@fakeaddress.com> wrote:


    My
    dishwasher has a little plastic window in the rinse aid compartment. My >>>> rinse aid is bright blue. When the window shows a bright blue color, I >>>> know there's enough rinse aid for the next load. When it is black, it's >>>> time to refill the compartment. No circuit boards, sensors, apps
    required. Totally reliable.

    Yes, I wish my dishwasher had that. But we never choose a dishwasher
    because it has an inspection port for rinse aid.

    Our old dishwasher machine (bought before 1980) has that thing, but you
    have to open the main door and look at a piece in the basin.

    True. but don't you have to open the main door to empty the dishwasher? That's when I glance at the window to see if the rinse aid dispenser
    needs refilling. If it does, I do it then. And, at least with every dishwasher I've ever used, the main door also needs to be opened to fill
    the dish washing detergent compartment before running a wash cycle.

    Yes, certainly. It just was a bit dark in there. I think I had to use a
    torch to look at the thing.
    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    ESEfc-Efc+, EUEfc-Efc|;
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Retirednoguilt@HapilyRetired@fakeaddress.com to alt.home.repair on Fri Nov 7 09:57:36 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    On 11/6/2025 4:50 PM, hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:


    For quite a few years, and certainly now, dishwashers, if used when
    full, require much less water that when washing and rinsing the
    equivalent number of dishes by hand.



    But when it takes a week to fill the dishwasher,
    and it needs to be run twice to get things clean ..
    energy savings disappear - and my fav sleepy-guy
    coffee mug has been unavailable that whole time !
    We're planning a kitchen reno - we'll leave the
    plumbing for the dishwasher available for future
    homeowners but replace the space with some storage
    drawers.
    John T.

    We generally take 4-5 days to fill our dishwasher and only run it when
    we have a full load. We don't pre-rinse, only scrape visible stuff off
    the plates before loading them. Everything comes out clean after one "automatic" cycle, even the items that were sitting in the dishwasher
    for days and the stuff that needs to be washed away has dried on. And,
    we have what I consider an economy model dishwasher. So many causes of
    poor cleaning - slime around the filter and drain areas, dirty filters,
    water not hot enough, improper loading, clogged ports on the rotating
    washer arms, insufficient or cheap detergent, choosing too short a
    cycle, etc. I'm not in the appliance business but have been using
    dishwashers for more than 50 years and have personally experienced all
    those issues and resolved them myself by trial and error.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Retirednoguilt@HapilyRetired@fakeaddress.com to alt.home.repair on Fri Nov 7 10:07:31 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    On 11/6/2025 5:33 PM, Ed P wrote:
    On 11/6/2025 4:50 PM, hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:


    For quite a few years, and certainly now, dishwashers, if used when
    full, require much less water that when washing and rinsing the
    equivalent number of dishes by hand.



    But when it takes a week to fill the dishwasher,
    and it needs to be run twice to get things clean ..
    energy savings disappear - and my fav sleepy-guy
    coffee mug has been unavailable that whole time !
    We're planning a kitchen reno - we'll leave the
    plumbing for the dishwasher available for future
    homeowners but replace the space with some storage
    drawers.
    John T.

    Twice? Mine often sits a week too and everything comes out spotless. I
    use Cascade Platinum pods and they work every time.

    The house came with a GE and it works well, but my preference if buying
    new would be Kitchen Aid. They always did a great job too.

    I'd advise a little research before plunging deep into your pocket to
    pay for a Kitchen Aid. Many years ago they were excellent. For our
    previous home, my parents bought us a top model Kitchen Aid dishwasher
    as their housewarming present as a replacement for the 15 year old
    builder's quality whatever brand that came with the house. We were
    never impressed. For several decades they've had reliability/quality
    control problems. It died after only about 12 years of very light use
    but multiple repairs. We replaced it with a mid-range GE that was still
    going strong when sold the house about 30 years later. Maybe Kitchen
    Aid has overcome their problems and are top rated again. I've had no
    need to shop for a new dishwasher so I haven't kept up with the recent
    ratings.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Clare Snyder@clare@snyder.on.ca to alt.home.repair on Fri Nov 7 23:39:24 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    On Thu, 6 Nov 2025 11:11:55 -0500, Ed P <esp@snet.n> wrote:

    On 11/5/2025 11:34 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:


    I chose for reliability. We'll see how that goes. It's only
    coming up on its first birthday.

    My wife's dishwasher just celebrated it's 73rd birthday and it has
    only broken down twice. The only problem is she complains it tends to
    be "kick start" - - -
    She exagerates, of course - she has never had to 'Kick" it put she
    sometimes resorts to prodding - - - -


    Does it have any trade in value towards a newer model?


    She hasn't tried that - says it's "too much trouble to train" a new
    model
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Clare Snyder@clare@snyder.on.ca to alt.home.repair on Fri Nov 7 23:46:57 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    On Fri, 7 Nov 2025 10:07:31 -0500, Retirednoguilt <HapilyRetired@fakeaddress.com> wrote:

    On 11/6/2025 5:33 PM, Ed P wrote:
    On 11/6/2025 4:50 PM, hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:


    For quite a few years, and certainly now, dishwashers, if used when
    full, require much less water that when washing and rinsing the
    equivalent number of dishes by hand.



    But when it takes a week to fill the dishwasher,
    and it needs to be run twice to get things clean ..
    energy savings disappear - and my fav sleepy-guy
    coffee mug has been unavailable that whole time !
    We're planning a kitchen reno - we'll leave the
    plumbing for the dishwasher available for future
    homeowners but replace the space with some storage
    drawers.
    John T.

    Twice? Mine often sits a week too and everything comes out spotless. I
    use Cascade Platinum pods and they work every time.

    The house came with a GE and it works well, but my preference if buying
    new would be Kitchen Aid. They always did a great job too.

    I'd advise a little research before plunging deep into your pocket to
    pay for a Kitchen Aid. Many years ago they were excellent. For our
    previous home, my parents bought us a top model Kitchen Aid dishwasher
    as their housewarming present as a replacement for the 15 year old
    builder's quality whatever brand that came with the house. We were
    never impressed. For several decades they've had reliability/quality
    control problems. It died after only about 12 years of very light use
    but multiple repairs. We replaced it with a mid-range GE that was still >going strong when sold the house about 30 years later. Maybe Kitchen
    Aid has overcome their problems and are top rated again. I've had no
    need to shop for a new dishwasher so I haven't kept up with the recent >ratings.
    Most of my friends who DO have the "mechanical version" have BOSCH and
    won't have anything else. Not sure if it is still true but WAS the
    only didhwasher brand BUILT IN THE USA.
    They are all hoping they continue to work at least until after 2028
    when hopefully the tarriff stupidity ends
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Retirednoguilt@HapilyRetired@fakeaddress.com to alt.home.repair on Sat Nov 8 10:25:14 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    On 11/7/2025 11:46 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
    On Fri, 7 Nov 2025 10:07:31 -0500, Retirednoguilt <HapilyRetired@fakeaddress.com> wrote:

    On 11/6/2025 5:33 PM, Ed P wrote:
    On 11/6/2025 4:50 PM, hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:


    For quite a few years, and certainly now, dishwashers, if used when
    full, require much less water that when washing and rinsing the
    equivalent number of dishes by hand.



    But when it takes a week to fill the dishwasher,
    and it needs to be run twice to get things clean ..
    energy savings disappear - and my fav sleepy-guy
    coffee mug has been unavailable that whole time !
    We're planning a kitchen reno - we'll leave the
    plumbing for the dishwasher available for future
    homeowners but replace the space with some storage
    drawers.
    John T.

    Twice? Mine often sits a week too and everything comes out spotless. I >>> use Cascade Platinum pods and they work every time.

    The house came with a GE and it works well, but my preference if buying >>> new would be Kitchen Aid. They always did a great job too.

    I'd advise a little research before plunging deep into your pocket to
    pay for a Kitchen Aid. Many years ago they were excellent. For our
    previous home, my parents bought us a top model Kitchen Aid dishwasher
    as their housewarming present as a replacement for the 15 year old
    builder's quality whatever brand that came with the house. We were
    never impressed. For several decades they've had reliability/quality
    control problems. It died after only about 12 years of very light use
    but multiple repairs. We replaced it with a mid-range GE that was still
    going strong when sold the house about 30 years later. Maybe Kitchen
    Aid has overcome their problems and are top rated again. I've had no
    need to shop for a new dishwasher so I haven't kept up with the recent
    ratings.
    Most of my friends who DO have the "mechanical version" have BOSCH and
    won't have anything else. Not sure if it is still true but WAS the
    only didhwasher brand BUILT IN THE USA.
    They are all hoping they continue to work at least until after 2028
    when hopefully the tarriff stupidity ends

    Clare, I usually find myself completely agreeing with what you post.
    However, in this case, it sounds as if perhaps patriotism has superseded
    fact? BOSCH may or may not be the highest quality dishwasher made but
    it sounds as if you might be attributing that status to its manufacture
    in the USA. I think we're both old enough to remember when German and
    then Japanese cameras replaced Kodak as the highest quality commercially available camera for amateur photographers. Also, the first
    commercially available wrist watch with a quartz movement was introduced
    by Seiko in 1969 and was much more accurate than the best commercially available mechanical wrist watch movements made anywhere in the world. I certainly consider myself patriotic; I served 30 years in uniform in the
    U.S. military. I prefer to buy American if there's a choice of products
    of equal quality and price that meet my needs. But I don't feel
    disloyal if I choose a product of foreign manufacture if there's no
    comparable American product.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Clare Snyder@clare@snyder.on.ca to alt.home.repair on Sat Nov 8 23:42:55 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    On Sat, 8 Nov 2025 10:25:14 -0500, Retirednoguilt <HapilyRetired@fakeaddress.com> wrote:

    On 11/7/2025 11:46 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
    On Fri, 7 Nov 2025 10:07:31 -0500, Retirednoguilt
    <HapilyRetired@fakeaddress.com> wrote:

    On 11/6/2025 5:33 PM, Ed P wrote:
    On 11/6/2025 4:50 PM, hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:


    For quite a few years, and certainly now, dishwashers, if used when >>>>>> full, require much less water that when washing and rinsing the
    equivalent number of dishes by hand.



    But when it takes a week to fill the dishwasher,
    and it needs to be run twice to get things clean ..
    energy savings disappear - and my fav sleepy-guy
    coffee mug has been unavailable that whole time !
    We're planning a kitchen reno - we'll leave the
    plumbing for the dishwasher available for future
    homeowners but replace the space with some storage
    drawers.
    John T.

    Twice? Mine often sits a week too and everything comes out spotless. I >>>> use Cascade Platinum pods and they work every time.

    The house came with a GE and it works well, but my preference if buying >>>> new would be Kitchen Aid. They always did a great job too.

    I'd advise a little research before plunging deep into your pocket to
    pay for a Kitchen Aid. Many years ago they were excellent. For our
    previous home, my parents bought us a top model Kitchen Aid dishwasher
    as their housewarming present as a replacement for the 15 year old
    builder's quality whatever brand that came with the house. We were
    never impressed. For several decades they've had reliability/quality
    control problems. It died after only about 12 years of very light use
    but multiple repairs. We replaced it with a mid-range GE that was still >>> going strong when sold the house about 30 years later. Maybe Kitchen
    Aid has overcome their problems and are top rated again. I've had no
    need to shop for a new dishwasher so I haven't kept up with the recent
    ratings.
    Most of my friends who DO have the "mechanical version" have BOSCH and
    won't have anything else. Not sure if it is still true but WAS the
    only didhwasher brand BUILT IN THE USA.
    They are all hoping they continue to work at least until after 2028
    when hopefully the tarriff stupidity ends

    Clare, I usually find myself completely agreeing with what you post.
    However, in this case, it sounds as if perhaps patriotism has superseded >fact? BOSCH may or may not be the highest quality dishwasher made but
    it sounds as if you might be attributing that status to its manufacture
    in the USA. I think we're both old enough to remember when German and
    then Japanese cameras replaced Kodak as the highest quality commercially >available camera for amateur photographers. Also, the first
    commercially available wrist watch with a quartz movement was introduced
    by Seiko in 1969 and was much more accurate than the best commercially >available mechanical wrist watch movements made anywhere in the world. I >certainly consider myself patriotic; I served 30 years in uniform in the
    U.S. military. I prefer to buy American if there's a choice of products
    of equal quality and price that meet my needs. But I don't feel
    disloyal if I choose a product of foreign manufacture if there's no >comparable American product.

    Patriotism??? No way - I'm CANADIAN.
    It just happens that in this case, the german brand American built
    product actually IS a good product. Dead quiet - parts availability
    when required, and a good clean (according to my Canadian friends.)
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Retirednoguilt@HapilyRetired@fakeaddress.com to alt.home.repair on Sun Nov 9 12:14:14 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    On 11/8/2025 11:42 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
    On Sat, 8 Nov 2025 10:25:14 -0500, Retirednoguilt <HapilyRetired@fakeaddress.com> wrote:

    On 11/7/2025 11:46 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
    On Fri, 7 Nov 2025 10:07:31 -0500, Retirednoguilt
    <HapilyRetired@fakeaddress.com> wrote:

    On 11/6/2025 5:33 PM, Ed P wrote:
    On 11/6/2025 4:50 PM, hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:


    For quite a few years, and certainly now, dishwashers, if used when >>>>>>> full, require much less water that when washing and rinsing the
    equivalent number of dishes by hand.



    But when it takes a week to fill the dishwasher,
    and it needs to be run twice to get things clean ..
    energy savings disappear - and my fav sleepy-guy
    coffee mug has been unavailable that whole time !
    We're planning a kitchen reno - we'll leave the
    plumbing for the dishwasher available for future
    homeowners but replace the space with some storage
    drawers.
    John T.

    Twice? Mine often sits a week too and everything comes out spotless. I >>>>> use Cascade Platinum pods and they work every time.

    The house came with a GE and it works well, but my preference if buying >>>>> new would be Kitchen Aid. They always did a great job too.

    I'd advise a little research before plunging deep into your pocket to
    pay for a Kitchen Aid. Many years ago they were excellent. For our
    previous home, my parents bought us a top model Kitchen Aid dishwasher >>>> as their housewarming present as a replacement for the 15 year old
    builder's quality whatever brand that came with the house. We were
    never impressed. For several decades they've had reliability/quality
    control problems. It died after only about 12 years of very light use >>>> but multiple repairs. We replaced it with a mid-range GE that was still >>>> going strong when sold the house about 30 years later. Maybe Kitchen
    Aid has overcome their problems and are top rated again. I've had no
    need to shop for a new dishwasher so I haven't kept up with the recent >>>> ratings.
    Most of my friends who DO have the "mechanical version" have BOSCH and
    won't have anything else. Not sure if it is still true but WAS the
    only didhwasher brand BUILT IN THE USA.
    They are all hoping they continue to work at least until after 2028
    when hopefully the tarriff stupidity ends

    Clare, I usually find myself completely agreeing with what you post.
    However, in this case, it sounds as if perhaps patriotism has superseded
    fact? BOSCH may or may not be the highest quality dishwasher made but
    it sounds as if you might be attributing that status to its manufacture
    in the USA. I think we're both old enough to remember when German and
    then Japanese cameras replaced Kodak as the highest quality commercially
    available camera for amateur photographers. Also, the first
    commercially available wrist watch with a quartz movement was introduced
    by Seiko in 1969 and was much more accurate than the best commercially
    available mechanical wrist watch movements made anywhere in the world. I
    certainly consider myself patriotic; I served 30 years in uniform in the
    U.S. military. I prefer to buy American if there's a choice of products
    of equal quality and price that meet my needs. But I don't feel
    disloyal if I choose a product of foreign manufacture if there's no
    comparable American product.

    Patriotism??? No way - I'm CANADIAN.
    It just happens that in this case, the german brand American built
    product actually IS a good product. Dead quiet - parts availability
    when required, and a good clean (according to my Canadian friends.)

    I assume you're referring to the Bosch product. I don't understand your comment re: patriotism. Frankly, I wish I had a Canadian passport. I
    enjoy recreational international travel and was abroad as recently as
    this past January/February. But I was occasionally looked at with the
    stink eye and questioned by several locals trying to understand what's
    happened here and why. I would have preferred to say that I was
    Canadian so don't ask me when I was asked if I was American, but I'm
    just not a person who lies. However, I also didn't enjoy spending my recreational time trying to educate foreigners that they shouldn't
    stereotype us. And, let me be clear, although I prefer to support our struggling economy, as I said above, "I don't feel disloyal if I choose
    a product of foreign manufacture if there's no comparable American
    product." There's a great difference between being a zealot and being a patriot.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Clare Snyder@clare@snyder.on.ca to alt.home.repair on Sun Nov 9 22:36:17 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    On Sun, 9 Nov 2025 12:14:14 -0500, Retirednoguilt <HapilyRetired@fakeaddress.com> wrote:

    On 11/8/2025 11:42 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
    On Sat, 8 Nov 2025 10:25:14 -0500, Retirednoguilt
    <HapilyRetired@fakeaddress.com> wrote:

    On 11/7/2025 11:46 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
    On Fri, 7 Nov 2025 10:07:31 -0500, Retirednoguilt
    <HapilyRetired@fakeaddress.com> wrote:

    On 11/6/2025 5:33 PM, Ed P wrote:
    On 11/6/2025 4:50 PM, hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:


    For quite a few years, and certainly now, dishwashers, if used when >>>>>>>> full, require much less water that when washing and rinsing the >>>>>>>> equivalent number of dishes by hand.



    But when it takes a week to fill the dishwasher,
    and it needs to be run twice to get things clean ..
    energy savings disappear - and my fav sleepy-guy
    coffee mug has been unavailable that whole time !
    We're planning a kitchen reno - we'll leave the
    plumbing for the dishwasher available for future
    homeowners but replace the space with some storage
    drawers.
    John T.

    Twice? Mine often sits a week too and everything comes out spotless. I
    use Cascade Platinum pods and they work every time.

    The house came with a GE and it works well, but my preference if buying >>>>>> new would be Kitchen Aid. They always did a great job too.

    I'd advise a little research before plunging deep into your pocket to >>>>> pay for a Kitchen Aid. Many years ago they were excellent. For our >>>>> previous home, my parents bought us a top model Kitchen Aid dishwasher >>>>> as their housewarming present as a replacement for the 15 year old
    builder's quality whatever brand that came with the house. We were
    never impressed. For several decades they've had reliability/quality >>>>> control problems. It died after only about 12 years of very light use >>>>> but multiple repairs. We replaced it with a mid-range GE that was still >>>>> going strong when sold the house about 30 years later. Maybe Kitchen >>>>> Aid has overcome their problems and are top rated again. I've had no >>>>> need to shop for a new dishwasher so I haven't kept up with the recent >>>>> ratings.
    Most of my friends who DO have the "mechanical version" have BOSCH and >>>> won't have anything else. Not sure if it is still true but WAS the
    only didhwasher brand BUILT IN THE USA.
    They are all hoping they continue to work at least until after 2028
    when hopefully the tarriff stupidity ends

    Clare, I usually find myself completely agreeing with what you post.
    However, in this case, it sounds as if perhaps patriotism has superseded >>> fact? BOSCH may or may not be the highest quality dishwasher made but
    it sounds as if you might be attributing that status to its manufacture
    in the USA. I think we're both old enough to remember when German and
    then Japanese cameras replaced Kodak as the highest quality commercially >>> available camera for amateur photographers. Also, the first
    commercially available wrist watch with a quartz movement was introduced >>> by Seiko in 1969 and was much more accurate than the best commercially
    available mechanical wrist watch movements made anywhere in the world. I >>> certainly consider myself patriotic; I served 30 years in uniform in the >>> U.S. military. I prefer to buy American if there's a choice of products
    of equal quality and price that meet my needs. But I don't feel
    disloyal if I choose a product of foreign manufacture if there's no
    comparable American product.

    Patriotism??? No way - I'm CANADIAN.
    It just happens that in this case, the german brand American built
    product actually IS a good product. Dead quiet - parts availability
    when required, and a good clean (according to my Canadian friends.)

    I assume you're referring to the Bosch product. I don't understand your >comment re: patriotism. Frankly, I wish I had a Canadian passport. I
    enjoy recreational international travel and was abroad as recently as
    this past January/February. But I was occasionally looked at with the
    stink eye and questioned by several locals trying to understand what's >happened here and why. I would have preferred to say that I was
    Canadian so don't ask me when I was asked if I was American, but I'm
    just not a person who lies. However, I also didn't enjoy spending my >recreational time trying to educate foreigners that they shouldn't
    stereotype us. And, let me be clear, although I prefer to support our >struggling economy, as I said above, "I don't feel disloyal if I choose
    a product of foreign manufacture if there's no comparable American
    product." There's a great difference between being a zealot and being a >patriot.
    You need to look at the post I was responding to for the
    "patriotism" reference - - - And I agree with you - definitely easier
    being a Canadian when travelling!!
    I do a fair amount. In the last several years I've been in Norway,
    Sweden, Netherlands, Scotland, Australia, New Zealand, New Caledonia,
    Fiji, Brazil, Argentina, Chile, Peru, Equador, Panama, Cayman Islands,
    Zambia, Zimbabwe, Botswana, Portugal, Spain, Itally, Greece, and
    Turkey. Add a few more years and Morroco, Austria, Burkina Faso - and
    a few others - not to mentionabout half of the US states and Mexico
    and every province of Canada.

    I prefer to buy Canadian when I can - and when, as often is the case,
    I cannot I like to buy from local importers/resellers. Sometimes that
    is not possible and I resort to buying from American suppliers or
    through American companies like Amazon (no fan of Bezos - but ya gotta
    do what ya gotta do sometimes ) or import directly from China or
    wherever.
    Being a Canadian small businessman my preference is to support other
    Canadian small businessmen when possible and if it makes sense - - -
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Clare Snyder@clare@snyder.on.ca to alt.home.repair on Sun Nov 9 22:44:22 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    On Sun, 09 Nov 2025 22:36:17 -0500, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca>
    wrote:

    On Sun, 9 Nov 2025 12:14:14 -0500, Retirednoguilt ><HapilyRetired@fakeaddress.com> wrote:

    On 11/8/2025 11:42 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
    On Sat, 8 Nov 2025 10:25:14 -0500, Retirednoguilt
    <HapilyRetired@fakeaddress.com> wrote:

    On 11/7/2025 11:46 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
    On Fri, 7 Nov 2025 10:07:31 -0500, Retirednoguilt
    <HapilyRetired@fakeaddress.com> wrote:

    On 11/6/2025 5:33 PM, Ed P wrote:
    On 11/6/2025 4:50 PM, hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:


    For quite a few years, and certainly now, dishwashers, if used when >>>>>>>>> full, require much less water that when washing and rinsing the >>>>>>>>> equivalent number of dishes by hand.



    But when it takes a week to fill the dishwasher,
    and it needs to be run twice to get things clean ..
    energy savings disappear - and my fav sleepy-guy
    coffee mug has been unavailable that whole time !
    We're planning a kitchen reno - we'll leave the
    plumbing for the dishwasher available for future
    homeowners but replace the space with some storage
    drawers.
    John T.

    Twice? Mine often sits a week too and everything comes out spotless. I
    use Cascade Platinum pods and they work every time.

    The house came with a GE and it works well, but my preference if buying
    new would be Kitchen Aid. They always did a great job too.

    I'd advise a little research before plunging deep into your pocket to >>>>>> pay for a Kitchen Aid. Many years ago they were excellent. For our >>>>>> previous home, my parents bought us a top model Kitchen Aid dishwasher >>>>>> as their housewarming present as a replacement for the 15 year old >>>>>> builder's quality whatever brand that came with the house. We were >>>>>> never impressed. For several decades they've had reliability/quality >>>>>> control problems. It died after only about 12 years of very light use >>>>>> but multiple repairs. We replaced it with a mid-range GE that was still >>>>>> going strong when sold the house about 30 years later. Maybe Kitchen >>>>>> Aid has overcome their problems and are top rated again. I've had no >>>>>> need to shop for a new dishwasher so I haven't kept up with the recent >>>>>> ratings.
    Most of my friends who DO have the "mechanical version" have BOSCH and >>>>> won't have anything else. Not sure if it is still true but WAS the
    only didhwasher brand BUILT IN THE USA.
    They are all hoping they continue to work at least until after 2028
    when hopefully the tarriff stupidity ends

    Clare, I usually find myself completely agreeing with what you post.
    However, in this case, it sounds as if perhaps patriotism has superseded >>>> fact? BOSCH may or may not be the highest quality dishwasher made but >>>> it sounds as if you might be attributing that status to its manufacture >>>> in the USA. I think we're both old enough to remember when German and >>>> then Japanese cameras replaced Kodak as the highest quality commercially >>>> available camera for amateur photographers. Also, the first
    commercially available wrist watch with a quartz movement was introduced >>>> by Seiko in 1969 and was much more accurate than the best commercially >>>> available mechanical wrist watch movements made anywhere in the world. I >>>> certainly consider myself patriotic; I served 30 years in uniform in the >>>> U.S. military. I prefer to buy American if there's a choice of products >>>> of equal quality and price that meet my needs. But I don't feel
    disloyal if I choose a product of foreign manufacture if there's no
    comparable American product.

    Patriotism??? No way - I'm CANADIAN.
    It just happens that in this case, the german brand American built
    product actually IS a good product. Dead quiet - parts availability
    when required, and a good clean (according to my Canadian friends.)

    I assume you're referring to the Bosch product. I don't understand your >>comment re: patriotism. Frankly, I wish I had a Canadian passport. I
    enjoy recreational international travel and was abroad as recently as
    this past January/February. But I was occasionally looked at with the >>stink eye and questioned by several locals trying to understand what's >>happened here and why. I would have preferred to say that I was
    Canadian so don't ask me when I was asked if I was American, but I'm
    just not a person who lies. However, I also didn't enjoy spending my >>recreational time trying to educate foreigners that they shouldn't >>stereotype us. And, let me be clear, although I prefer to support our >>struggling economy, as I said above, "I don't feel disloyal if I choose
    a product of foreign manufacture if there's no comparable American >>product." There's a great difference between being a zealot and being a >>patriot.
    You need to look at the post I was responding to for the
    "patriotism" reference - - - And I agree with you - definitely easier
    being a Canadian when travelling!!
    I do a fair amount. In the last several years I've been in Norway,
    Sweden, Netherlands, Scotland, Australia, New Zealand, New Caledonia,
    Fiji, Brazil, Argentina, Chile, Peru, Equador, Panama, Cayman Islands, >Zambia, Zimbabwe, Botswana, Portugal, Spain, Itally, Greece, and
    Turkey. Add a few more years and Morroco, Austria, Burkina Faso - and
    a few others - not to mentionabout half of the US states and Mexico
    and every province of Canada.

    I prefer to buy Canadian when I can - and when, as often is the case,
    I cannot I like to buy from local importers/resellers. Sometimes that
    is not possible and I resort to buying from American suppliers or
    through American companies like Amazon (no fan of Bezos - but ya gotta
    do what ya gotta do sometimes ) or import directly from China or
    wherever.
    Being a Canadian small businessman my preference is to support other
    Canadian small businessmen when possible and if it makes sense - - -


    ALso, remember Kitchen Aid is Whirlpool, Maytag, and JennAir.
    A lot of these products are the same basic product with a few extra
    features or different trim / badging - with the "heart" or "guts"
    being virtually the same -

    You pay a LOT MORE for a Kitchen Aid than for a Maytag or Whirlpool -
    and more yet for a JennAir - Are you getting more / better? or just
    getting "prestige"?
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Retirednoguilt@HapilyRetired@fakeaddress.com to alt.home.repair on Mon Nov 10 09:35:15 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    On 11/9/2025 10:44 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
    On Sun, 09 Nov 2025 22:36:17 -0500, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca>
    wrote:

    On Sun, 9 Nov 2025 12:14:14 -0500, Retirednoguilt
    <HapilyRetired@fakeaddress.com> wrote:

    On 11/8/2025 11:42 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
    On Sat, 8 Nov 2025 10:25:14 -0500, Retirednoguilt
    <HapilyRetired@fakeaddress.com> wrote:

    On 11/7/2025 11:46 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
    On Fri, 7 Nov 2025 10:07:31 -0500, Retirednoguilt
    <HapilyRetired@fakeaddress.com> wrote:

    On 11/6/2025 5:33 PM, Ed P wrote:
    On 11/6/2025 4:50 PM, hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:


    For quite a few years, and certainly now, dishwashers, if used when >>>>>>>>>> full, require much less water that when washing and rinsing the >>>>>>>>>> equivalent number of dishes by hand.



    But when it takes a week to fill the dishwasher,
    and it needs to be run twice to get things clean ..
    energy savings disappear - and my fav sleepy-guy
    coffee mug has been unavailable that whole time !
    We're planning a kitchen reno - we'll leave the
    plumbing for the dishwasher available for future
    homeowners but replace the space with some storage
    drawers.
    John T.

    Twice? Mine often sits a week too and everything comes out spotless. I
    use Cascade Platinum pods and they work every time.

    The house came with a GE and it works well, but my preference if buying
    new would be Kitchen Aid. They always did a great job too.

    I'd advise a little research before plunging deep into your pocket to >>>>>>> pay for a Kitchen Aid. Many years ago they were excellent. For our >>>>>>> previous home, my parents bought us a top model Kitchen Aid dishwasher >>>>>>> as their housewarming present as a replacement for the 15 year old >>>>>>> builder's quality whatever brand that came with the house. We were >>>>>>> never impressed. For several decades they've had reliability/quality >>>>>>> control problems. It died after only about 12 years of very light use >>>>>>> but multiple repairs. We replaced it with a mid-range GE that was still
    going strong when sold the house about 30 years later. Maybe Kitchen >>>>>>> Aid has overcome their problems and are top rated again. I've had no >>>>>>> need to shop for a new dishwasher so I haven't kept up with the recent >>>>>>> ratings.
    Most of my friends who DO have the "mechanical version" have BOSCH and >>>>>> won't have anything else. Not sure if it is still true but WAS the >>>>>> only didhwasher brand BUILT IN THE USA.
    They are all hoping they continue to work at least until after 2028 >>>>>> when hopefully the tarriff stupidity ends

    Clare, I usually find myself completely agreeing with what you post. >>>>> However, in this case, it sounds as if perhaps patriotism has superseded >>>>> fact? BOSCH may or may not be the highest quality dishwasher made but >>>>> it sounds as if you might be attributing that status to its manufacture >>>>> in the USA. I think we're both old enough to remember when German and >>>>> then Japanese cameras replaced Kodak as the highest quality commercially >>>>> available camera for amateur photographers. Also, the first
    commercially available wrist watch with a quartz movement was introduced >>>>> by Seiko in 1969 and was much more accurate than the best commercially >>>>> available mechanical wrist watch movements made anywhere in the world. I >>>>> certainly consider myself patriotic; I served 30 years in uniform in the >>>>> U.S. military. I prefer to buy American if there's a choice of products >>>>> of equal quality and price that meet my needs. But I don't feel
    disloyal if I choose a product of foreign manufacture if there's no
    comparable American product.

    Patriotism??? No way - I'm CANADIAN.
    It just happens that in this case, the german brand American built
    product actually IS a good product. Dead quiet - parts availability
    when required, and a good clean (according to my Canadian friends.)

    I assume you're referring to the Bosch product. I don't understand your >>> comment re: patriotism. Frankly, I wish I had a Canadian passport. I
    enjoy recreational international travel and was abroad as recently as
    this past January/February. But I was occasionally looked at with the
    stink eye and questioned by several locals trying to understand what's
    happened here and why. I would have preferred to say that I was
    Canadian so don't ask me when I was asked if I was American, but I'm
    just not a person who lies. However, I also didn't enjoy spending my
    recreational time trying to educate foreigners that they shouldn't
    stereotype us. And, let me be clear, although I prefer to support our
    struggling economy, as I said above, "I don't feel disloyal if I choose
    a product of foreign manufacture if there's no comparable American
    product." There's a great difference between being a zealot and being a >>> patriot.
    You need to look at the post I was responding to for the
    "patriotism" reference - - - And I agree with you - definitely easier
    being a Canadian when travelling!!
    I do a fair amount. In the last several years I've been in Norway,
    Sweden, Netherlands, Scotland, Australia, New Zealand, New Caledonia,
    Fiji, Brazil, Argentina, Chile, Peru, Equador, Panama, Cayman Islands,
    Zambia, Zimbabwe, Botswana, Portugal, Spain, Itally, Greece, and
    Turkey. Add a few more years and Morroco, Austria, Burkina Faso - and
    a few others - not to mentionabout half of the US states and Mexico
    and every province of Canada.

    I prefer to buy Canadian when I can - and when, as often is the case,
    I cannot I like to buy from local importers/resellers. Sometimes that
    is not possible and I resort to buying from American suppliers or
    through American companies like Amazon (no fan of Bezos - but ya gotta
    do what ya gotta do sometimes ) or import directly from China or
    wherever.
    Being a Canadian small businessman my preference is to support other
    Canadian small businessmen when possible and if it makes sense - - -


    ALso, remember Kitchen Aid is Whirlpool, Maytag, and JennAir.
    A lot of these products are the same basic product with a few extra
    features or different trim / badging - with the "heart" or "guts"
    being virtually the same -

    You pay a LOT MORE for a Kitchen Aid than for a Maytag or Whirlpool -
    and more yet for a JennAir - Are you getting more / better? or just
    getting "prestige"?

    I believe that all you're getting is prestige. The fancy name myth of
    assured quality has penetrated many product categories. The most
    expensive high prestige mechanical wrist watch is far less accurate and
    less reliable than a quartz movement in a Casio or Timex. Some name
    brand fashion clothing is manufactured in sweat shops in 3rd world
    countries in southeast Asia and sewed by machine and then the fancy
    brand label is added.

    What I've found to be disheartening when traveling is shopping for a
    gift that is characteristic of the country and supposedly authentic, and everything for sale in the gift shop has labels saying that it was made
    in a different country thousands of miles away.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Ed P@esp@snet.xxx to alt.home.repair on Mon Nov 10 10:36:31 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    On 11/9/2025 10:44 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
    On Sun, 09 Nov 2025 22:36:17 -0500, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca>
    wrote:


    ALso, remember Kitchen Aid is Whirlpool, Maytag, and JennAir.
    A lot of these products are the same basic product with a few extra
    features or different trim / badging - with the "heart" or "guts"
    being virtually the same -

    You pay a LOT MORE for a Kitchen Aid than for a Maytag or Whirlpool -
    and more yet for a JennAir - Are you getting more / better? or just
    getting "prestige"?


    All this talk of dishwasher jinxed me. Mine died. Full load, wanted to
    wash it before leaving for a while. DEAD
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Retirednoguilt@HapilyRetired@fakeaddress.com to alt.home.repair on Mon Nov 10 11:19:57 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    On 11/10/2025 10:36 AM, Ed P wrote:
    On 11/9/2025 10:44 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
    On Sun, 09 Nov 2025 22:36:17 -0500, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca>
    wrote:


    ALso, remember Kitchen Aid is Whirlpool, Maytag, and JennAir.
    A lot of these products are the same basic product with a few extra
    features or different trim / badging - with the "heart" or "guts"
    being virtually the same -

    You pay a LOT MORE for a Kitchen Aid than for a Maytag or Whirlpool -
    and more yet for a JennAir - Are you getting more / better? or just
    getting "prestige"?


    All this talk of dishwasher jinxed me. Mine died. Full load, wanted to wash it before leaving for a while. DEAD

    Before you give up, make sure to check the fuse or circuit breaker. If
    a circuit breaker, cycle it off and on once. If the dishwasher plugs in
    rather than being hard wired, unplug it and try plugging something else
    in to make sure that the outlet is live. Open, close and (lock if you
    model uses a door lock) the door to try to reengage the micro-switch
    that senses whether the door is open or closed. Nothing ventured,
    nothing gained. Good luck!
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Ed P@esp@snet.xxx to alt.home.repair on Mon Nov 10 11:45:12 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    On 11/10/2025 11:19 AM, Retirednoguilt wrote:
    On 11/10/2025 10:36 AM, Ed P wrote:
    On 11/9/2025 10:44 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
    On Sun, 09 Nov 2025 22:36:17 -0500, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca>
    wrote:


    ALso, remember Kitchen Aid is Whirlpool, Maytag, and JennAir.
    A lot of these products are the same basic product with a few extra
    features or different trim / badging - with the "heart" or "guts"
    being virtually the same -

    You pay a LOT MORE for a Kitchen Aid than for a Maytag or Whirlpool -
    and more yet for a JennAir - Are you getting more / better? or just
    getting "prestige"?


    All this talk of dishwasher jinxed me. Mine died. Full load, wanted to
    wash it before leaving for a while. DEAD

    Before you give up, make sure to check the fuse or circuit breaker. If
    a circuit breaker, cycle it off and on once. If the dishwasher plugs in rather than being hard wired, unplug it and try plugging something else
    in to make sure that the outlet is live. Open, close and (lock if you
    model uses a door lock) the door to try to reengage the micro-switch
    that senses whether the door is open or closed. Nothing ventured,
    nothing gained. Good luck!

    Did all of that twice. Pretty sure it is the control board. Neighbor
    had theirs die about a month ago.

    It has done a couple of things, like turning on the control panel when
    not asked for, not turning on the green "finished" light a couple of
    times.

    It will be 7 years old next month.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Carlos E.R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to alt.home.repair on Mon Nov 10 21:43:55 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    On 2025-11-10 15:35, Retirednoguilt wrote:
    What I've found to be disheartening when traveling is shopping for a
    gift that is characteristic of the country and supposedly authentic, and everything for sale in the gift shop has labels saying that it was made
    in a different country thousands of miles away.

    I once wanted to buy an american made storm lantern, in Canada.
    Impossible. All eastern made. Eventually, I got a German made one.
    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    ESEfc-Efc+, EUEfc-Efc|;
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From hubops@hubops@ccanoemail.com to alt.home.repair on Mon Nov 10 16:04:05 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    On Mon, 10 Nov 2025 21:43:55 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
    <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

    On 2025-11-10 15:35, Retirednoguilt wrote:
    What I've found to be disheartening when traveling is shopping for a
    gift that is characteristic of the country and supposedly authentic, and
    everything for sale in the gift shop has labels saying that it was made
    in a different country thousands of miles away.

    I once wanted to buy an american made storm lantern, in Canada.
    Impossible. All eastern made. Eventually, I got a German made one.



    I was hopeful that these were still un-Asian - nope .. :-(

    https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/home/lighting/lanterns/10311-dietz-no-80-hurricane-lantern

    John T.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Carlos E.R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to alt.home.repair on Mon Nov 10 22:42:37 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    On 2025-11-10 22:04, hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:
    On Mon, 10 Nov 2025 21:43:55 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
    <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

    On 2025-11-10 15:35, Retirednoguilt wrote:
    What I've found to be disheartening when traveling is shopping for a
    gift that is characteristic of the country and supposedly authentic, and >>> everything for sale in the gift shop has labels saying that it was made
    in a different country thousands of miles away.

    I once wanted to buy an american made storm lantern, in Canada.
    Impossible. All eastern made. Eventually, I got a German made one.



    I was hopeful that these were still un-Asian - nope .. :-(

    https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/home/lighting/lanterns/10311-dietz-no-80-hurricane-lantern

    Try Feuerhand.
    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    ESEfc-Efc+, EUEfc-Efc|;
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From hubops@hubops@ccanoemail.com to alt.home.repair on Mon Nov 10 17:04:12 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    On Mon, 10 Nov 2025 22:42:37 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
    <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

    On 2025-11-10 22:04, hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:
    On Mon, 10 Nov 2025 21:43:55 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
    <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

    On 2025-11-10 15:35, Retirednoguilt wrote:
    What I've found to be disheartening when traveling is shopping for a
    gift that is characteristic of the country and supposedly authentic, and >>>> everything for sale in the gift shop has labels saying that it was made >>>> in a different country thousands of miles away.

    I once wanted to buy an american made storm lantern, in Canada.
    Impossible. All eastern made. Eventually, I got a German made one.



    I was hopeful that these were still un-Asian - nope .. :-(

    https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/home/lighting/lanterns/10311-dietz-no-80-hurricane-lantern

    Try Feuerhand.




    Even an LED model !

    https://berryuseful.co.uk/collections/hurricane-lanterns/products/feuerhand-baby-special-276-led-lantern

    John T.
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Clare Snyder@clare@snyder.on.ca to alt.home.repair on Mon Nov 10 18:08:35 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    On Mon, 10 Nov 2025 09:35:15 -0500, Retirednoguilt <HapilyRetired@fakeaddress.com> wrote:

    On 11/9/2025 10:44 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
    On Sun, 09 Nov 2025 22:36:17 -0500, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca>
    wrote:

    On Sun, 9 Nov 2025 12:14:14 -0500, Retirednoguilt
    <HapilyRetired@fakeaddress.com> wrote:

    On 11/8/2025 11:42 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
    On Sat, 8 Nov 2025 10:25:14 -0500, Retirednoguilt
    <HapilyRetired@fakeaddress.com> wrote:

    On 11/7/2025 11:46 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
    On Fri, 7 Nov 2025 10:07:31 -0500, Retirednoguilt
    <HapilyRetired@fakeaddress.com> wrote:

    On 11/6/2025 5:33 PM, Ed P wrote:
    On 11/6/2025 4:50 PM, hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:


    For quite a few years, and certainly now, dishwashers, if used when >>>>>>>>>>> full, require much less water that when washing and rinsing the >>>>>>>>>>> equivalent number of dishes by hand.



    But when it takes a week to fill the dishwasher,
    and it needs to be run twice to get things clean ..
    energy savings disappear - and my fav sleepy-guy
    coffee mug has been unavailable that whole time !
    We're planning a kitchen reno - we'll leave the
    plumbing for the dishwasher available for future
    homeowners but replace the space with some storage
    drawers.
    John T.

    Twice? Mine often sits a week too and everything comes out spotless. I
    use Cascade Platinum pods and they work every time.

    The house came with a GE and it works well, but my preference if buying
    new would be Kitchen Aid. They always did a great job too.

    I'd advise a little research before plunging deep into your pocket to >>>>>>>> pay for a Kitchen Aid. Many years ago they were excellent. For our >>>>>>>> previous home, my parents bought us a top model Kitchen Aid dishwasher >>>>>>>> as their housewarming present as a replacement for the 15 year old >>>>>>>> builder's quality whatever brand that came with the house. We were >>>>>>>> never impressed. For several decades they've had reliability/quality >>>>>>>> control problems. It died after only about 12 years of very light use >>>>>>>> but multiple repairs. We replaced it with a mid-range GE that was still
    going strong when sold the house about 30 years later. Maybe Kitchen >>>>>>>> Aid has overcome their problems and are top rated again. I've had no >>>>>>>> need to shop for a new dishwasher so I haven't kept up with the recent >>>>>>>> ratings.
    Most of my friends who DO have the "mechanical version" have BOSCH and >>>>>>> won't have anything else. Not sure if it is still true but WAS the >>>>>>> only didhwasher brand BUILT IN THE USA.
    They are all hoping they continue to work at least until after 2028 >>>>>>> when hopefully the tarriff stupidity ends

    Clare, I usually find myself completely agreeing with what you post. >>>>>> However, in this case, it sounds as if perhaps patriotism has superseded >>>>>> fact? BOSCH may or may not be the highest quality dishwasher made but >>>>>> it sounds as if you might be attributing that status to its manufacture >>>>>> in the USA. I think we're both old enough to remember when German and >>>>>> then Japanese cameras replaced Kodak as the highest quality commercially >>>>>> available camera for amateur photographers. Also, the first
    commercially available wrist watch with a quartz movement was introduced >>>>>> by Seiko in 1969 and was much more accurate than the best commercially >>>>>> available mechanical wrist watch movements made anywhere in the world. I >>>>>> certainly consider myself patriotic; I served 30 years in uniform in the >>>>>> U.S. military. I prefer to buy American if there's a choice of products >>>>>> of equal quality and price that meet my needs. But I don't feel
    disloyal if I choose a product of foreign manufacture if there's no >>>>>> comparable American product.

    Patriotism??? No way - I'm CANADIAN.
    It just happens that in this case, the german brand American built
    product actually IS a good product. Dead quiet - parts availability
    when required, and a good clean (according to my Canadian friends.)

    I assume you're referring to the Bosch product. I don't understand your >>>> comment re: patriotism. Frankly, I wish I had a Canadian passport. I
    enjoy recreational international travel and was abroad as recently as
    this past January/February. But I was occasionally looked at with the >>>> stink eye and questioned by several locals trying to understand what's >>>> happened here and why. I would have preferred to say that I was
    Canadian so don't ask me when I was asked if I was American, but I'm
    just not a person who lies. However, I also didn't enjoy spending my
    recreational time trying to educate foreigners that they shouldn't
    stereotype us. And, let me be clear, although I prefer to support our
    struggling economy, as I said above, "I don't feel disloyal if I choose >>>> a product of foreign manufacture if there's no comparable American
    product." There's a great difference between being a zealot and being a >>>> patriot.
    You need to look at the post I was responding to for the
    "patriotism" reference - - - And I agree with you - definitely easier
    being a Canadian when travelling!!
    I do a fair amount. In the last several years I've been in Norway,
    Sweden, Netherlands, Scotland, Australia, New Zealand, New Caledonia,
    Fiji, Brazil, Argentina, Chile, Peru, Equador, Panama, Cayman Islands,
    Zambia, Zimbabwe, Botswana, Portugal, Spain, Itally, Greece, and
    Turkey. Add a few more years and Morroco, Austria, Burkina Faso - and
    a few others - not to mentionabout half of the US states and Mexico
    and every province of Canada.

    I prefer to buy Canadian when I can - and when, as often is the case,
    I cannot I like to buy from local importers/resellers. Sometimes that
    is not possible and I resort to buying from American suppliers or
    through American companies like Amazon (no fan of Bezos - but ya gotta
    do what ya gotta do sometimes ) or import directly from China or
    wherever.
    Being a Canadian small businessman my preference is to support other
    Canadian small businessmen when possible and if it makes sense - - -


    ALso, remember Kitchen Aid is Whirlpool, Maytag, and JennAir.
    A lot of these products are the same basic product with a few extra
    features or different trim / badging - with the "heart" or "guts"
    being virtually the same -

    You pay a LOT MORE for a Kitchen Aid than for a Maytag or Whirlpool -
    and more yet for a JennAir - Are you getting more / better? or just
    getting "prestige"?

    I believe that all you're getting is prestige. The fancy name myth of >assured quality has penetrated many product categories. The most
    expensive high prestige mechanical wrist watch is far less accurate and
    less reliable than a quartz movement in a Casio or Timex. Some name
    brand fashion clothing is manufactured in sweat shops in 3rd world
    countries in southeast Asia and sewed by machine and then the fancy
    brand label is added.

    What I've found to be disheartening when traveling is shopping for a
    gift that is characteristic of the country and supposedly authentic, and >everything for sale in the gift shop has labels saying that it was made
    in a different country thousands of miles away.
    Usually in China
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Clare Snyder@clare@snyder.on.ca to alt.home.repair on Mon Nov 10 18:16:33 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    On Mon, 10 Nov 2025 22:42:37 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
    <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

    On 2025-11-10 22:04, hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:
    On Mon, 10 Nov 2025 21:43:55 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
    <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

    On 2025-11-10 15:35, Retirednoguilt wrote:
    What I've found to be disheartening when traveling is shopping for a
    gift that is characteristic of the country and supposedly authentic, and >>>> everything for sale in the gift shop has labels saying that it was made >>>> in a different country thousands of miles away.

    I once wanted to buy an american made storm lantern, in Canada.
    Impossible. All eastern made. Eventually, I got a German made one.



    I was hopeful that these were still un-Asian - nope .. :-(

    https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/home/lighting/lanterns/10311-dietz-no-80-hurricane-lantern

    Try Feuerhand.
    I have an old Czeck Meva and an old Canadian GSW Beacon kerosine
    lantern and a 1948 Coleman 242B made in Canada single mantle
    "sportLite"
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From redacted@devnull@redacted.dnc to alt.home.repair on Tue Nov 11 06:33:17 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------YBtWuuxKgUC7Xw1y7D0DNL1O
    Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

    On 11/10/25 10:36, Ed P wrote:
    On 11/9/2025 10:44 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
    On Sun, 09 Nov 2025 22:36:17 -0500, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca>
    wrote:


    ALso, remember Kitchen Aid is Whirlpool, Maytag, and JennAir.
    A lot of these products are the same basic product with a few extra
    features or different trim / badging - with the "heart" or "guts"
    being virtually the same -

    You pay a LOT MORE for a Kitchen Aid than for a Maytag or Whirlpool -
    and more yet for a JennAir --a Are you getting more / better? or just
    getting "prestige"?


    All this talk of dishwasher jinxed me.-a Mine died.-a Full load, wanted to wash it before leaving for a while.-a DEAD


    Your dishwasher is observing the Schumer shutdown.

    --------------YBtWuuxKgUC7Xw1y7D0DNL1O
    Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
    Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

    <!DOCTYPE html>
    <html>
    <head>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
    </head>
    <body>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 11/10/25 10:36, Ed P wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:10et0q1$3c8g$1@dont-email.me">On
    11/9/2025 10:44 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
    <br>
    <blockquote type="cite">On Sun, 09 Nov 2025 22:36:17 -0500, Clare
    Snyder <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:clare@snyder.on.ca">&lt;clare@snyder.on.ca&gt;</a>
    <br>
    wrote:
    <br>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <blockquote type="cite">
    <br>
    ALso, remember Kitchen Aid is Whirlpool, Maytag, and JennAir.
    <br>
    A lot of these products are the same basic product with a few
    extra
    <br>
    features or different trim / badging - with the "heart" or
    "guts"
    <br>
    being virtually the same -
    <br>
    <br>
    You pay a LOT MORE for a Kitchen Aid than for a Maytag or
    Whirlpool -
    <br>
    and more yet for a JennAir --a Are you getting more / better? or
    just
    <br>
    getting "prestige"?
    <br>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <br>
    All this talk of dishwasher jinxed me.-a Mine died.-a Full load,
    wanted to wash it before leaving for a while.-a DEAD
    <br>
    </blockquote>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <p>Your dishwasher is observing the Schumer shutdown.</p>
    </body>
    </html>

    --------------YBtWuuxKgUC7Xw1y7D0DNL1O--
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Clare Snyder@clare@snyder.on.ca to alt.home.repair on Tue Nov 11 11:30:15 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    On Mon, 10 Nov 2025 18:08:35 -0500, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca>
    wrote:


    On Sat, 8 Nov 2025 10:25:14 -0500, Retirednoguilt

    So I wonder where the souvenirs you buy in China are made????
    Viet Nam?
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Carlos E.R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to alt.home.repair on Tue Nov 11 21:27:49 2025
    From Newsgroup: alt.home.repair

    On 2025-11-10 23:04, hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:
    On Mon, 10 Nov 2025 22:42:37 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
    <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

    On 2025-11-10 22:04, hubops@ccanoemail.com wrote:
    On Mon, 10 Nov 2025 21:43:55 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
    <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

    On 2025-11-10 15:35, Retirednoguilt wrote:
    What I've found to be disheartening when traveling is shopping for a >>>>> gift that is characteristic of the country and supposedly authentic, and >>>>> everything for sale in the gift shop has labels saying that it was made >>>>> in a different country thousands of miles away.

    I once wanted to buy an american made storm lantern, in Canada.
    Impossible. All eastern made. Eventually, I got a German made one.



    I was hopeful that these were still un-Asian - nope .. :-(

    https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/home/lighting/lanterns/10311-dietz-no-80-hurricane-lantern

    Try Feuerhand.




    Even an LED model !

    https://berryuseful.co.uk/collections/hurricane-lanterns/products/feuerhand-baby-special-276-led-lantern

    Wow.

    2 - 150 lumens... not impressive, and expensive.
    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    ESEfc-Efc+, EUEfc-Efc|;
    --- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2