On Sat, 10 Jan 2026 07:42:47 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:
It did if you lived in Doggerland, or used to walk from Australia to
Indonesia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone_Spring
The rest of the trilogy, 'Bronze Summer' and 'Iron Winter', are okay but
the focus moves from Doggerland.
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:
On 09/01/2026 21:24, John Ames wrote:
On 9 Jan 2026 20:36:38 GMTYes.
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
That *is* an intriguing question - AFAIK the evidence we have is
scant, but it's certainly a fascinating notion. Dunno if we'll ever
get any solid answers, but you gotta wonder...
Heyerdahl was disliked by the academics but he had an embarrassing
habit of building boats and going places that shouldn't have been
reachable in their theories.
Certainly can't accuse him of not putting his money where his mouth was. >>>
Before Doggerland sank anybody could wander over without having to
build a coracle.
It's truly amazing how much of the world was walkable in the Ice Age;
doesn't explain *every* place humans ended up (it's absolutely mind-
boggling to consider how far back the Pacific islands were settled,)
but it absolutely made a whole lotta places readily accessible for a
good long while. Makes you wonder, too, how many of the various quasi-
Atlantean legends in northwest Europe are really mutated folk memory
from a *staggeringly* long time ago...
125m of sea level rise in a few thousand years...and a global
temperature rise of
up to 10-#C
Odd how that didn't 'destroy the planet'...
Apples are not equal to oranges.
On 1/10/26 12:44, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 10 Jan 2026 07:42:47 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:
It did if you lived in Doggerland, or used to walk from Australia to
Indonesia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone_Spring
The rest of the trilogy, 'Bronze Summer' and 'Iron Winter', are okay
but the focus moves from Doggerland.
I love a nice upbeat story.
On Sat, 10 Jan 2026 19:39:05 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
I like to be a little more explicit, so I say "#ifdef DELETE_THIS".
We have version control nowadays. You can actually delete stuff from
your source, and trust to the version history to keep a record of what
used to be there.
On Sat, 10 Jan 2026 19:39:05 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
In fact, to work both ways, my code is still full of constructs like
this:
#ifdef PROTOTYPE
int foo(char *bar, BOOL baz)
#else
int foo(bar, baz) char *bar; BOOL baz;
#endif
What a pain-in-the-bum way of writing things.
K&R C is gone, people. Let it go.
On 2026-01-09, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
'C' has added a few nicey-nice things, but not TOO much.
You can (I do) stick pretty much to K&R and everything
still works fine.
I think of my style as "K&R plus prototypes". In fact, to
work both ways, my code is still full of constructs like this:
#ifdef PROTOTYPE
int foo(char *bar, BOOL baz)
#else
int foo(bar, baz) char *bar; BOOL baz;
#endif
On Fri, 9 Jan 2026 10:00:20 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/01/2026 04:13, John Ames wrote:
They do now - but they had a different character once upon a time.It was other people before that. too. Celts are late invaders from the
England used to be a bunch of Celts and a handful of Roman expats 't
broinze age.
Before Doggerland sank anybody could wander over without having to build a coracle.
People should have the choice of writing that way if they want. And
you always have the choice of not reading it.
(If this sounds too harsh to somebody: I wrote this because of how
Lawrence repeatedly mentioned "choice" as a way to dismiss criticism
in other threads in comp.os.linux.misc.)
On 1/9/26 15:32, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 9 Jan 2026 10:00:20 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/01/2026 04:13, John Ames wrote:
They do now - but they had a different character once upon a time.It was other people before that. too. Celts are late invaders from the
England used to be a bunch of Celts and a handful of Roman expats 't
broinze age.
Before Doggerland sank anybody could wander over without having to
build a
coracle.
-a Correct. However it mostly sank about 12,000 years
-a ago when all the ice melted. Even the Beaker People
-a had to float over to England.
-a Stick to my estimation that England perhaps ranks
-a as the "most invaded" country ever-a :-)
-a Original pop ? Who the fuck knows ?
On Sun, 11 Jan 2026 00:27:20 +0000
Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> wrote:
People should have the choice of writing that way if they want. And
you always have the choice of not reading it.
(If this sounds too harsh to somebody: I wrote this because of how
Lawrence repeatedly mentioned "choice" as a way to dismiss criticism
in other threads in comp.os.linux.misc.)
While I appreciate the zing, I do have to opine for the record that K&R function definitions really are something best left buried with K&R C.
I'm willing to write in ANSI C for the sake of whatever random weirdo
wants to try building something of mine on an old proprietary *nix, but
man I am *not* going any farther back than that.
On 1/10/26 18:51, c186282 wrote:
On 1/9/26 15:32, rbowman wrote:
On Fri, 9 Jan 2026 10:00:20 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/01/2026 04:13, John Ames wrote:
They do now - but they had a different character once upon a time.It was other people before that. too. Celts are late invaders from the >>>> broinze age.
England used to be a bunch of Celts and a handful of Roman expats 't
Before Doggerland sank anybody could wander over without having to
build a
coracle.
-a-a Correct. However it mostly sank about 12,000 years
-a-a ago when all the ice melted. Even the Beaker People
-a-a had to float over to England.
-a-a Stick to my estimation that England perhaps ranks
-a-a as the "most invaded" country ever-a :-)
-a-a Original pop ? Who the fuck knows ?
People just kept heading west, and when they got to England they had to stop.
On 1/10/26 19:41, John Ames wrote:
On Sun, 11 Jan 2026 00:27:20 +0000
Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> wrote:
People should have the choice of writing that way if they want. And
you always have the choice of not reading it.
(If this sounds too harsh to somebody: I wrote this because of how
Lawrence repeatedly mentioned "choice" as a way to dismiss criticism
in other threads in comp.os.linux.misc.)
While I appreciate the zing, I do have to opine for the record that K&R
function definitions really are something best left buried with K&R C.
I'm willing to write in ANSI C for the sake of whatever random weirdo
wants to try building something of mine on an old proprietary *nix, but
man I am *not* going any farther back than that.
It's never good to foreclose your options. One of my goals for Iron
Spring PL/I is compatibility with the widest base of code possible. It
can compile and run IBM PL/I(F) code from 1965. The newer stuff is
better, but rewriting something that works is a pain.
On 1/10/26 10:23, Scott Lurndal wrote:
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:
On 09/01/2026 21:24, John Ames wrote:
On 9 Jan 2026 20:36:38 GMTYes.
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
That *is* an intriguing question - AFAIK the evidence we have is
scant, but it's certainly a fascinating notion. Dunno if we'll ever >>>>>> get any solid answers, but you gotta wonder...
Heyerdahl was disliked by the academics but he had an embarrassing
habit of building boats and going places that shouldn't have been
reachable in their theories.
Certainly can't accuse him of not putting his money where his mouth
was.
Before Doggerland sank anybody could wander over without having to
build a coracle.
It's truly amazing how much of the world was walkable in the Ice Age;
doesn't explain *every* place humans ended up (it's absolutely mind-
boggling to consider how far back the Pacific islands were settled,)
but it absolutely made a whole lotta places readily accessible for a
good long while. Makes you wonder, too, how many of the various quasi- >>>> Atlantean legends in northwest Europe are really mutated folk memory
from a *staggeringly* long time ago...
125m of sea level rise in a few-a thousand years...and a global
temperature rise of
up to 10-#C
Odd how that didn't 'destroy the planet'...
Apples are not equal to oranges.
-a-a-a-aDon't worry about the planet.-a With or without life on it Earth will take care of itself just as does Venus or Mercury.-a The risk is
to the last few hundred years of human progress(?). We might
manage to revert to barbarism if the temperature does not go too
high for our systems by which I mean the whole means by which
your body maintains homeostasis which includes food systems,
medical systems, transport systems.-a I suspect without clear
evidence that we may hit another bottleneck and suffer large
losses of population and genetic diversity human and otherwise.
On 1/10/26 19:41, John Ames wrote:
On Sun, 11 Jan 2026 00:27:20 +0000
Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> wrote:
People should have the choice of writing that way if they want. And
you always have the choice of not reading it.
(If this sounds too harsh to somebody: I wrote this because of how
Lawrence repeatedly mentioned "choice" as a way to dismiss criticism
in other threads in comp.os.linux.misc.)
While I appreciate the zing, I do have to opine for the record that K&R
function definitions really are something best left buried with K&R C.
I'm willing to write in ANSI C for the sake of whatever random weirdo
wants to try building something of mine on an old proprietary *nix, but
man I am *not* going any farther back than that.
It's never good to foreclose your options. One of my goals for Iron
Spring PL/I is compatibility with the widest base of code possible. It
can compile and run IBM PL/I(F) code from 1965. The newer stuff is
better, but rewriting something that works is a pain.
On 1/10/26 18:51, c186282 wrote:
On 1/9/26 15:32, rbowman wrote:People just kept heading west, and when they got to England they had to
On Fri, 9 Jan 2026 10:00:20 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/01/2026 04:13, John Ames wrote:
They do now - but they had a different character once upon a time.It was other people before that. too. Celts are late invaders from
England used to be a bunch of Celts and a handful of Roman expats 't
the broinze age.
Before Doggerland sank anybody could wander over without having to
build a coracle.
-a Correct. However it mostly sank about 12,000 years ago when all the
-a ice melted. Even the Beaker People had to float over to England.
-a Stick to my estimation that England perhaps ranks as the "most
-a invaded" country ever-a :-)
-a Original pop ? Who the fuck knows ?
stop.
On Sat, 10 Jan 2026 20:03:27 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:
On 1/10/26 18:51, c186282 wrote:
On 1/9/26 15:32, rbowman wrote:People just kept heading west, and when they got to England they had to
On Fri, 9 Jan 2026 10:00:20 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/01/2026 04:13, John Ames wrote:
They do now - but they had a different character once upon a time. >>>>>> England used to be a bunch of Celts and a handful of Roman expats 't >>>>> It was other people before that. too. Celts are late invaders fromthe broinze age.
Before Doggerland sank anybody could wander over without having to
build a coracle.
-a Correct. However it mostly sank about 12,000 years ago when all the >>> -a ice melted. Even the Beaker People had to float over to England.
-a Stick to my estimation that England perhaps ranks as the "most
-a invaded" country ever-a :-)
-a Original pop ? Who the fuck knows ?
stop.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2150867.Westviking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Farfarers
No, you just build a boat. Mowat has been accused of having a vivid imagination particularly for 'Never Cry Wolf' but he does point out that
by island hopping in the Hebrides and Faroes before heading for Iceland
you are only out if sight of land for a couple of days, assuming you don't get blown off course.
He tells a plausible story. In 'Collapse' Jared Diamond claims that one of the reasons for the abandonment of Greenland along with climate change was
an irrational reluctance of the Norse to eat fish. Excuse me? He bases
that on the lack of fish bones in the middens. I've never had it but I
think the process of producing h|ikarl might dissolve the bones.
On Sun, 11 Jan 2026 00:27:20 +0000
Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> wrote:
People should have the choice of writing that way if they want. And
you always have the choice of not reading it.
(If this sounds too harsh to somebody: I wrote this because of how
Lawrence repeatedly mentioned "choice" as a way to dismiss criticism
in other threads in comp.os.linux.misc.)
While I appreciate the zing, I do have to opine for the record that K&R function definitions really are something best left buried with K&R C.
I'm willing to write in ANSI C for the sake of whatever random weirdo
wants to try building something of mine on an old proprietary *nix, but
man I am *not* going any farther back than that.
On 10 Jan 2026 14:40:30 GMT, St|-phane CARPENTIER wrote:
Le 08-01-2026, Lawrence DrCOOliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> a |-crit-a:
On Wed, 7 Jan 2026 19:21:09 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:
FORTRAN and COBOL are still around, but I don't thinks anyone from
the 70s would recognize them.
COBOL is still COBOL. Fortran has evolved somewhat,
post-Fortran-77.
Is it really still the same COBOL?
I imagine itrCOs still backward-compatible.
My point being that the new stuff added to Fortran changes the
language out of all recognition (e.g. free-format source, user-defined
types, type parameters, CONTAINS), whereas the same is not true of
COBOL.
Look ... nobody is going to be 'writing' much of ANYTHING within five
years. The "AI" will do it all - probably led by the pointy-haired
bosses who can't find their ass even with a spy sat.
On Sun, 11 Jan 2026 01:52:02 -0500
c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
Look ... nobody is going to be 'writing' much of ANYTHING within five
years. The "AI" will do it all - probably led by the pointy-haired
bosses who can't find their ass even with a spy sat.
The "AI" bubble isn't going to *last* another five years, full stop.
Frankly, I'll be shocked if it makes it to '28, if that.
You're not wrong that the PHBs would *love* to have a Magic Genie
Friend who answers their poorly-specified and unreasonable demands
without question, even if it doesn't actually *work* - but the current
trend of "throw as much raw compute at the same moronic Markov-chain
solution as possible, and somehow scrounge up more training data than
THE ENTIRE INTERNET" will collapse under its own weight *long* before
we ever get there.
From what I've read, even the Neanderthals knew how
to build at least crude boats - pushed out onto some
of the Greek islands.
So yea, modern humans carried on the practice. It got
them to England and beyond. Well, SOME of them ...
the death rate would have been rather high for any
long voyage.
Building GOOD, large-ish, properly steerable boats ...
THAT took much longer than expected. Seems easy now,
but for whatever reasons the ancients had a hard time
of it.
England ... NOT too far. Even crap boats would do it.
The Beaker People completely infiltrated the existing
English pop about 4400bc - but they'd HAVE to have
floated there. Clearly their boats were 'adequate',
and there'd have been a LOT of them.
On 1/10/26 03:27, The Natural Philosopher wrote:No it didn't. It destroyed doggerland. And as for walking to australia,
Odd how that didn't 'destroy the planet'...
It did if you lived in Doggerland, or used to walk from Australia to Indonesia.
Our ancestors survived global warming, ice ages, plagues, wars, and
all sorts of other problems, at least long enough to breed and pass
on the genes.
On 1/10/26 11:44, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 10 Jan 2026 07:42:47 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:
It did if you lived in Doggerland, or used to walk from Australia
to Indonesia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone_Spring
The rest of the trilogy, 'Bronze Summer' and 'Iron Winter', are
okay but the focus moves from Doggerland.
When Doggerland is submerged and the people have to leave it it
seems totally logical that the focus would change to ancientry.
Remember Doggerland was prehistoric so I cannot even say ancienty
history but whatever the author according to his education can
imagine of those times.
Worthwhile book in 'Stone Spring' in my ever so humble opinion
Bliss
Odd how that didn't 'destroy the planet'...Apples are not equal to oranges.
-a-a-a-aDon't worry about the planet.-a With or without life on it Earth will take care of itself just as does Venus or Mercury.-a The risk is
to the last few hundred years of human progress(?). We might
manage to revert to barbarism if the temperature does not go too
high for our systems by which I mean the whole means by which
your body maintains homeostasis which includes food systems,
medical systems, transport systems.-a I suspect without clear
evidence that we may hit another bottleneck and suffer large
losses of population and genetic diversity human and otherwise.
-a-a-a-abliss - always the cheery optimist...
The global climate has never gone "too hot" over
-a the past BILLION years.
-a However the "warm zone" has sometimes expanded to
-a reach the poles.
-a And sometimes contracted so there's icebergs at
-a the equator.
On 2026-01-09, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
'C' has added a few nicey-nice things, but not TOO much.
You can (I do) stick pretty much to K&R and everything
still works fine.
I think of my style as "K&R plus prototypes". In fact, to
work both ways, my code is still full of constructs like this:
#ifdef PROTOTYPE
int foo(char *bar, BOOL baz)
#else
int foo(bar, baz) char *bar; BOOL baz;
#endif
Stick to my estimation that England perhaps ranks
-a as the "most invaded" country ever-a EfOe
He tells a plausible story. In 'Collapse' Jared Diamond claims that one of the reasons for the abandonment of Greenland along with climate change was
an irrational reluctance of the Norse to eat fish. Excuse me? He bases
that on the lack of fish bones in the middens. I've never had it but I
think the process of producing h|ikarl might dissolve the bones.
From what I've read, even the Neanderthals knew how
-a to build at least crude boats - pushed out onto some
-a of the Greek islands.
-a So yea, modern humans carried on the practice. It got
-a them to England and beyond. Well, SOME of them ...
-a the death rate would have been rather high for any
-a long voyage.
-a Building GOOD, large-ish, properly steerable boats ...
-a THAT took much longer than expected. Seems easy now,
-a but for whatever reasons the ancients had a hard time
-a of it.
-a England ... NOT too far. Even crap boats would do it.
-a The Beaker People completely infiltrated the existing
-a English pop about 4400bc - but they'd HAVE to have
-a floated there. Clearly their boats were 'adequate',
-a and there'd have been a LOT of them.
My code tends to be like an ATV: it might not be pretty,
but it'll go anywhere.
1. Anything that works is better than anything that doesn't.
On 1/10/26 22:06, Peter Flass wrote:
On 1/10/26 19:41, John Ames wrote:
On Sun, 11 Jan 2026 00:27:20 +0000
Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> wrote:
People should have the choice of writing that way if they want. And
you always have the choice of not reading it.
(If this sounds too harsh to somebody: I wrote this because of how
Lawrence repeatedly mentioned "choice" as a way to dismiss criticism
in other threads in comp.os.linux.misc.)
While I appreciate the zing, I do have to opine for the record that K&R
function definitions really are something best left buried with K&R C.
I'm willing to write in ANSI C for the sake of whatever random weirdo
wants to try building something of mine on an old proprietary *nix, but
man I am *not* going any farther back than that.
It's never good to foreclose your options. One of my goals for Iron
Spring PL/I is compatibility with the widest base of code possible. It
can compile and run IBM PL/I(F) code from 1965. The newer stuff is
better, but rewriting something that works is a pain.
-a You got Iron Spring to run properly ?
On Sat, 10 Jan 2026 20:03:27 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:
On 1/10/26 18:51, c186282 wrote:
On 1/9/26 15:32, rbowman wrote:People just kept heading west, and when they got to England they had to
On Fri, 9 Jan 2026 10:00:20 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 09/01/2026 04:13, John Ames wrote:
They do now - but they had a different character once upon a time. >>>>>> England used to be a bunch of Celts and a handful of Roman expats 't >>>>> It was other people before that. too. Celts are late invaders fromthe broinze age.
Before Doggerland sank anybody could wander over without having to
build a coracle.
-a Correct. However it mostly sank about 12,000 years ago when all the >>> -a ice melted. Even the Beaker People had to float over to England.
-a Stick to my estimation that England perhaps ranks as the "most
-a invaded" country ever-a :-)
-a Original pop ? Who the fuck knows ?
stop.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2150867.Westviking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Farfarers
No, you just build a boat. Mowat has been accused of having a vivid imagination particularly for 'Never Cry Wolf' but he does point out that
by island hopping in the Hebrides and Faroes before heading for Iceland
you are only out if sight of land for a couple of days, assuming you don't get blown off course.
He tells a plausible story. In 'Collapse' Jared Diamond claims that one of the reasons for the abandonment of Greenland along with climate change was
an irrational reluctance of the Norse to eat fish. Excuse me? He bases
that on the lack of fish bones in the middens. I've never had it but I
think the process of producing h|ikarl might dissolve the bones.
On 1/10/26 21:41, John Ames wrote:
On Sun, 11 Jan 2026 00:27:20 +0000
Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> wrote:
People should have the choice of writing that way if they want. And
you always have the choice of not reading it.
(If this sounds too harsh to somebody: I wrote this because of how
Lawrence repeatedly mentioned "choice" as a way to dismiss criticism
in other threads in comp.os.linux.misc.)
While I appreciate the zing, I do have to opine for the record that K&R
function definitions really are something best left buried with K&R C.
I'm willing to write in ANSI C for the sake of whatever random weirdo
wants to try building something of mine on an old proprietary *nix, but
man I am *not* going any farther back than that.
-a Look ... nobody is going to be 'writing' much
-a of ANYTHING within five years. The "AI" will do
-a it all - probably led by the pointy-haired bosses
-a who can't find their ass even with a spy sat.
-a And Win/Lin/IX ... I think they're going to go
-a away as well. It'll all just be thin clients
-a plugged into the leading AI engines. No more
-a operating systems.
-a Maybe PIs ... maybe.
-a "Programming" is going to be like those who learn
-a to play ancient Greek musical instruments ... an
-a interesting, but obsolete, old art. "AI" for worse
-a or worser, will be IT. Many TRILLIONS of dollars
-a invested in this - it is GOING to be The Future
-a whether we like it or not.
-a Just sayin'
On Sun, 11 Jan 2026 01:52:02 -0500
c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
Look ... nobody is going to be 'writing' much of ANYTHING within five
years. The "AI" will do it all - probably led by the pointy-haired
bosses who can't find their ass even with a spy sat.
The "AI" bubble isn't going to *last* another five years, full stop.
Frankly, I'll be shocked if it makes it to '28, if that.
On 1/11/26 11:55, Harold Stevens wrote:
1. Anything that works is better than anything that doesn't.
I think there exists a lot of code which makes the world a worse
place, and hence it would be better if it didn't work.
On Sat, 10 Jan 2026 20:03:27 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:
People just kept heading west, and when they got to England they had to
stop.
He tells a plausible story. In 'Collapse' Jared Diamond claims that one of >the reasons for the abandonment of Greenland along with climate change was >an irrational reluctance of the Norse to eat fish. Excuse me? He bases
that on the lack of fish bones in the middens. I've never had it but I
think the process of producing h|ikarl might dissolve the bones.
On 10/01/2026 18:23, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Odd how that didn't 'destroy the planet'...Apples are not equal to oranges.
What a meaningless statement.
FORTRAN ... it remains 'important', esp in academic
and professional circles. Can NOT beat all the
engineering/physics libs/functions writ for FORTRAN
over the years ... a solution for EVERYTHING complex.
It's not "popular" like Python ... but it's NOT going
to go away anytime soon. A 'niche' lang, but it's an
important niche.
On 11/01/2026 05:39, rbowman wrote:
He tells a plausible story. In 'Collapse' Jared Diamond claims that one of >> the reasons for the abandonment of Greenland along with climate change was >> an irrational reluctance of the Norse to eat fish. Excuse me? He bases
that on the lack of fish bones in the middens. I've never had it but I
think the process of producing h|ikarl might dissolve the bones.
They are probably so hungry they ate the bones as well..
The 'Norse' grew up on fish. One visit to sweden or Denmark will show
1001 ways to prepare 'herring'
A lot less pork chicken and beef on the menu.
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes:
On 10/01/2026 18:23, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Odd how that didn't 'destroy the planet'...Apples are not equal to oranges.
What a meaningless statement.
Not in the context of the portion of the post you
so conveniently deleted.
On 2026-01-11, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 11/01/2026 05:39, rbowman wrote:
He tells a plausible story. In 'Collapse' Jared Diamond claims that one of >>> the reasons for the abandonment of Greenland along with climate change was >>> an irrational reluctance of the Norse to eat fish. Excuse me? He bases
that on the lack of fish bones in the middens. I've never had it but I
think the process of producing h|ikarl might dissolve the bones.
They are probably so hungry they ate the bones as well..
The 'Norse' grew up on fish. One visit to sweden or Denmark will show
1001 ways to prepare 'herring'
A lot less pork chicken and beef on the menu.
You exaggerate. Sure, fish is _a_ cornerstone in our cuisine, but only
one. I would not say there is a _lot_ less pork, chicken and beef.
Personally I don't eat fish very often, and neither do most people I
know.
Niklas
On 11/01/2026 17:44, Niklas Karlsson wrote:
On 2026-01-11, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 11/01/2026 05:39, rbowman wrote:
He tells a plausible story. In 'Collapse' Jared Diamond claims that one of >>>> the reasons for the abandonment of Greenland along with climate change was >>>> an irrational reluctance of the Norse to eat fish. Excuse me? He bases >>>> that on the lack of fish bones in the middens. I've never had it but I >>>> think the process of producing h|ikarl might dissolve the bones.
They are probably so hungry they ate the bones as well..
The 'Norse' grew up on fish. One visit to sweden or Denmark will show
1001 ways to prepare 'herring'
A lot less pork chicken and beef on the menu.
You exaggerate. Sure, fish is _a_ cornerstone in our cuisine, but only
one. I would not say there is a _lot_ less pork, chicken and beef.
Personally I don't eat fish very often, and neither do most people I
know.
Niklas
Well the point being that Norse nations are well able to survive on fish
if they have to.
"FORTRAN ... remains popular among engineers but despised elsewhere."
On 2026-01-11, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:The Norse greenlanders were never huge in number and the natives knew
On 11/01/2026 17:44, Niklas Karlsson wrote:
On 2026-01-11, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 11/01/2026 05:39, rbowman wrote:
He tells a plausible story. In 'Collapse' Jared Diamond claims that one of
the reasons for the abandonment of Greenland along with climate change was
an irrational reluctance of the Norse to eat fish. Excuse me? He bases >>>>> that on the lack of fish bones in the middens. I've never had it but I >>>>> think the process of producing h|ikarl might dissolve the bones.
They are probably so hungry they ate the bones as well..
The 'Norse' grew up on fish. One visit to sweden or Denmark will show
1001 ways to prepare 'herring'
A lot less pork chicken and beef on the menu.
You exaggerate. Sure, fish is _a_ cornerstone in our cuisine, but only
one. I would not say there is a _lot_ less pork, chicken and beef.
Personally I don't eat fish very often, and neither do most people I
know.
Niklas
Well the point being that Norse nations are well able to survive on fish
if they have to.
That I'll agree with... though I'm not sure how sustainable the level of fishing would be that we'd have to do if fish and maybe shellfish were
our only protein.
Niklas--
Greybeard quants like me operated on 3 simple maxims:
1. Anything that works is better than anything that doesn't.
2. If if ain't broke, don't fix it.
3. If it breaks, don't ignore it.
On 11/01/2026 05:39, rbowman wrote:
He tells a plausible story. In 'Collapse' Jared Diamond claims that one
of the reasons for the abandonment of Greenland along with climate
change was an irrational reluctance of the Norse to eat fish. Excuse
me? He bases that on the lack of fish bones in the middens. I've never
had it but I think the process of producing h|ikarl might dissolve the
bones.
They are probably so hungry they ate the bones as well..
On 11/01/2026 20:23, Niklas Karlsson wrote:
On 2026-01-11, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:The Norse greenlanders were never huge in number and the natives knew
Well the point being that Norse nations are well able to survive on fish >>> if they have to.
That I'll agree with... though I'm not sure how sustainable the level of
fishing would be that we'd have to do if fish and maybe shellfish were
our only protein.
how to fish.
I suspect the Norse said 'fuck this lets go home' and abandoned
greenland as being not worth the effort.
FORTRAN ... it remains 'important', esp in academic and professional
circles. Can NOT beat all the engineering/physics libs/functions writ
for FORTRAN over the years ... a solution for EVERYTHING complex.
It's not "popular" like Python ... but it's NOT going to go away
anytime soon. A 'niche' lang, but it's an important niche.
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> writes:
On Sat, 10 Jan 2026 20:03:27 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:
People just kept heading west, and when they got to England they had
to stop.
He tells a plausible story. In 'Collapse' Jared Diamond claims that one
of the reasons for the abandonment of Greenland along with climate
change was an irrational reluctance of the Norse to eat fish. Excuse me?
He bases that on the lack of fish bones in the middens. I've never had
it but I think the process of producing h|ikarl might dissolve the bones.
One word. Lutefisk.
On 11/01/2026 01:51, c186282 wrote:
Stick to my estimation that England perhaps ranks
-a as the "most invaded" country ever-a EfOe
Yes, until 1066, after which it became the least.
Nothing like having a navy comprised of pirates.
On Sun, 11 Jan 2026 16:44:55 GMT, Scott Lurndal wrote:
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> writes:
On Sat, 10 Jan 2026 20:03:27 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:
People just kept heading west, and when they got to England they had
to stop.
He tells a plausible story. In 'Collapse' Jared Diamond claims that one >>>of the reasons for the abandonment of Greenland along with climate
change was an irrational reluctance of the Norse to eat fish. Excuse me? >>>He bases that on the lack of fish bones in the middens. I've never had
it but I think the process of producing h|ikarl might dissolve the bones.
One word. Lutefisk.
Butter, lots of butter. Big problem if the cows died off and there was no butter. It shows up around here at Christmas time. I've been told by knowledgeable people Norwegians in the US eat lutefisk and Norwegians in Norway eat frozen pizza.
Archaelogy has brought mots of human 'prehistory' into the class of
'fairly well known history'
On 2026-01-11, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 11/01/2026 17:44, Niklas Karlsson wrote:
On 2026-01-11, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 11/01/2026 05:39, rbowman wrote:
He tells a plausible story. In 'Collapse' Jared Diamond claims that one of
the reasons for the abandonment of Greenland along with climate change was
an irrational reluctance of the Norse to eat fish. Excuse me? He bases >>>>> that on the lack of fish bones in the middens. I've never had it but I >>>>> think the process of producing h|ikarl might dissolve the bones.
They are probably so hungry they ate the bones as well..
The 'Norse' grew up on fish. One visit to sweden or Denmark will show
1001 ways to prepare 'herring'
A lot less pork chicken and beef on the menu.
You exaggerate. Sure, fish is _a_ cornerstone in our cuisine, but only
one. I would not say there is a _lot_ less pork, chicken and beef.
Personally I don't eat fish very often, and neither do most people I
know.
Niklas
Well the point being that Norse nations are well able to survive on fish
if they have to.
That I'll agree with... though I'm not sure how sustainable the level of fishing would be that we'd have to do if fish and maybe shellfish were
our only protein.
On Sun, 11 Jan 2026 16:55:32 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
"FORTRAN ... remains popular among engineers but despised elsewhere."
Considering its enduring popularity among the supercomputing crowd,
IrCOd say that assessment is a bit out of date.
On 11/01/2026 20:23, Niklas Karlsson wrote:
On 2026-01-11, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:The Norse greenlanders were never huge in number and the natives knew
On 11/01/2026 17:44, Niklas Karlsson wrote:
On 2026-01-11, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 11/01/2026 05:39, rbowman wrote:
He tells a plausible story. In 'Collapse' Jared Diamond claims
that one of
the reasons for the abandonment of Greenland along with climate
change was
an irrational reluctance of the Norse to eat fish. Excuse me? He
bases
that on the lack of fish bones in the middens. I've never had it
but I
think the process of producing h|ikarl might dissolve the bones.
They are probably so hungry they ate the bones as well..
The 'Norse' grew up on fish. One visit to sweden or Denmark will show >>>>> 1001 ways to prepare 'herring'
A lot less pork chicken and beef on the menu.
You exaggerate. Sure, fish is _a_ cornerstone in our cuisine, but only >>>> one. I would not say there is a _lot_ less pork, chicken and beef.
Personally I don't eat fish very often, and neither do most people I
know.
Niklas
Well the point being that Norse nations are well able to survive on fish >>> if they have to.
That I'll agree with... though I'm not sure how sustainable the level of
fishing would be that we'd have to do if fish and maybe shellfish were
our only protein.
how to fish.
I suspect the Norse said 'fuck this lets go home' and abandoned
greenland as being not worth the effort.
On Sun, 11 Jan 2026 16:44:55 GMT, Scott Lurndal wrote:
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> writes:
On Sat, 10 Jan 2026 20:03:27 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:
People just kept heading west, and when they got to England they had
to stop.
He tells a plausible story. In 'Collapse' Jared Diamond claims that one >>>of the reasons for the abandonment of Greenland along with climate
change was an irrational reluctance of the Norse to eat fish. Excuse me? >>>He bases that on the lack of fish bones in the middens. I've never had
it but I think the process of producing h|ikarl might dissolve the bones.
One word. Lutefisk.
Butter, lots of butter. Big problem if the cows died off and there was no >butter. It shows up around here at Christmas time. I've been told by >knowledgeable people Norwegians in the US eat lutefisk and Norwegians in >Norway eat frozen pizza.
On Sun, 11 Jan 2026 11:05:32 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Archaelogy has brought mots of human 'prehistory' into the class of
'fairly well known history'
With caveats. There have been many moments of 'oops, that stuff is a hell
of a lot older than we thought it was.' Even Chris Stringer had to change
his story although the popular conception is lagging.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milford_H._Wolpoff
Le 11-01-2026, John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> a |-crit-a:
On Sun, 11 Jan 2026 01:52:02 -0500
c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
Look ... nobody is going to be 'writing' much of ANYTHING within five
years. The "AI" will do it all - probably led by the pointy-haired
bosses who can't find their ass even with a spy sat.
The "AI" bubble isn't going to *last* another five years, full stop.
Frankly, I'll be shocked if it makes it to '28, if that.
The AI bubble which must be considered (I mean: a lot of people has a
lot of understanding of that term) is that big companies will stop
to invest always more money on it. That doesn't mean the data centers
will stop to work, it means that new data centers will stop to be build.
At least at such increasing speed. It doesn't mean that actual GPU will
cease to work. It means that big companies will stop to buy so many GPU.
So, globally, everything that has already be done will stay. And new
things will improve at a slower pace. The AI is there and will stay
there for a long time. When the AI bubble will burst, its impact will
be more on the global economy than on its usage.
That's why the companies invest so much. Because the one which will
have the lead at the time of the burst expects to keep that lead for a
long time. Not because they are stupid and can't predict the obvious.
The AI is there, like it or not, you have to live with it. The fact that
you or I like it or not is irrelevant. Like when Platon was criticizing writing system because people stopped to learn by heart, the writing
system was there, stay through the ages and revolutionised things. There
are some things like farming, writing, electricity that changed
everything on the human way of life. And the AI is one one them. There
is no going back. I'm not saying that it's good or bad, I'm saying that
it's the evolution (not progress because progress is good by definition)
and one can't do anything but live with it.
Many stocks of fish are already depleted or nearly so,
and that's just at CURRENT levels of consumption. The "bounty of the
sea" is NOT unlimited, not at all.
http://linuxmafia.com/humour/power-of-lutefisk.html
The only good thing about lutefisk is that it is generally accompanied
by meatballs and mashed potatoes (and lefse).
On Sun, 11 Jan 2026 05:55:12 -0600, Harold Stevens wrote:
Greybeard quants like me operated on 3 simple maxims:
1. Anything that works is better than anything that doesn't.
2. If if ain't broke, don't fix it.
3. If it breaks, don't ignore it.
Those go way beyond programming...
On Sun, 11 Jan 2026 11:29:53 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 11/01/2026 05:39, rbowman wrote:
He tells a plausible story. In 'Collapse' Jared Diamond claims that one
of the reasons for the abandonment of Greenland along with climate
change was an irrational reluctance of the Norse to eat fish. Excuse
me? He bases that on the lack of fish bones in the middens. I've never
had it but I think the process of producing h|ikarl might dissolve the
bones.
They are probably so hungry they ate the bones as well..
We used to have fried smelts, fins, tail, and scales, usually without the head. This isn't the best area for seafood but the only ones I've seen in the market lately were marked as bait.
On Sun, 11 Jan 2026 11:26:50 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 11/01/2026 01:51, c186282 wrote:
Stick to my estimation that England perhaps ranks
-a as the "most invaded" country ever-a EfOe
Yes, until 1066, after which it became the least.
Nothing like having a navy comprised of pirates.
And a merchant class comprised of pirates... Wasn't there a Monty Python sketch about that?
-a Alas without detailed records we may find old THINGS,
-a but what they MEANT, their context, is forever lost.
-a That's just half a view of 'history'.
On Wed, 7 Jan 2026 13:30:14 +0100, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2026-01-06 19:57, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2026-01-06, Lars Poulsen <lars@beagle-ears.com> wrote:
On 2026-01-06, Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
My C teacher said it was a mistake to use C as an all purpose
language, like for userland applications. Using C is the cause of
many bugs that a proper language would catch.
That was around 1991.
He knew. He participated in some study tasked by the Canadian
government to study C compilers, but he could not talk about what
they wrote.
What language(s) did he suggest instead?
I don't remember if he did. Maybe he told samples, but I think he mostly
told us of quirks of the language, things that were errors, but that the
compiler did not signal, so that we being aware we would write correct C
code.
It is possible that current C compilers signal many more problems that
back then, but not runtime errors.
gcc has become pickier. That isn't always a welcome thing when working
with legacy code and requires a search of the compiler options to get it
to shut up about such horrible heresies as assuming a function returns an int.
Now, concerning 'AI is there', there was significant progress in
some areas like machine translation. "Creative writers" may be
concerned. But there were attempts to replace a lot of professionals, notably programmers. Examples indicate that "AI" can create
small, trival pieces of code but does not really work for
bigger and more complex things. To be useful for programming "AI"
and way it is used must be significantly improved.
On 11/01/2026 20:44, rbowman wrote:
On Sun, 11 Jan 2026 05:55:12 -0600, Harold Stevens wrote:Part of the 'philosophy of engineering'.
Greybeard quants like me operated on 3 simple maxims:
1. Anything that works is better than anything that doesn't.
2. If if ain't broke, don't fix it.
3. If it breaks, don't ignore it.
Those go way beyond programming...
Perhaps the most fundamental one, after 'an engineer is someone who can
do for five bob what any damn fool can do for a quid' is
'In the construction of mechanisms, complexity should not be multiplied beyond that necessary to achieve the defined objective'
Ockham's Laser...
On Mon, 12 Jan 2026 00:47:29 GMT, Scott Lurndal wrote:
http://linuxmafia.com/humour/power-of-lutefisk.html
The only good thing about lutefisk is that it is generally accompanied
by meatballs and mashed potatoes (and lefse).
Is isn't that bad. That's not to say it's good.
It's blandly neutral.
Butter, lots of butter. Big problem if the cows died off and there
was no butter. It shows up around here at Christmas time. I've
been told by knowledgeable people Norwegians in the US eat lutefisk
and Norwegians in Norway eat frozen pizza.
I am not that familiar with that aspect of our neighbors, but I can
believe it. We have lutfisk (yes, we spell it without the E) and I
certainly don't care for it. Fortunately, very rarely has anyone
attempted to serve it to me.
They did have gjetost, which makes up for it. The stuff is dangerous though.
https://www.newsinenglish.no/2013/01/22/burning-brown-cheese-closes-
tunnel/
The Ski Queen brand must not be the real thing. It doesn't burn.
On 1/12/26 04:49, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 11/01/2026 20:44, rbowman wrote:
On Sun, 11 Jan 2026 05:55:12 -0600, Harold Stevens wrote:
Greybeard quants like me operated on 3 simple maxims:
1. Anything that works is better than anything that doesn't.
2. If if ain't broke, don't fix it.
3. If it breaks, don't ignore it.
Those go way beyond programming...
Part of the 'philosophy of engineering'.
Perhaps the most fundamental one, after 'an engineer is someone who can
do for five bob what any damn fool can do for a quid' is
'In the construction of mechanisms, complexity should not be multiplied
beyond that necessary to achieve the defined objective'
Ockham's Laser...
Now if only computer people could follow this rule. Our rule seems to be "why not add just this one more feature"
Now, concerning burst: AFAIK AI companies use investment money to
cover cost of operation (whole or in significant part). If there
is burst, they will have to stop operating literally closing
their datacenters. Basically only things that generate profits
or possibly some research by companies that have other sources of
income and still want to continue research. But that would be
at much lower scale than currently.
But there were attempts to replace a lot of professionals,
notably programmers. Examples indicate that "AI" can create
small, trival pieces of code but does not really work for
bigger and more complex things. To be useful for programming "AI"
and way it is used must be significantly improved. It is possible
that slower, gradual improvement will lead to "useful AI".
But it is also possible that alternative approaches, currently
underfunded due to AI race, will progress and be used insted
of "AI".
[...]
So, it looks that for general AI we are missing something
important. For applications ANN apparently struggle with
tasks that have easy algorithmic solution. So natural way
forward with applications seem to be via hybrid approaches.
But AI crowd seem to prefer pure ANN solutions and tries
to brute-force problems using more compute power.
On 12 Jan 2026 04:10:10 GMT rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
They did have gjetost, which makes up for it. The stuff is dangerous
though.
https://www.newsinenglish.no/2013/01/22/burning-brown-cheese-closes-
tunnel/
The Ski Queen brand must not be the real thing. It doesn't burn.
Gosh, I'd forgotten about gjetost. Need to get some of that again.
On 11/01/2026 20:57, rbowman wrote:
On Sun, 11 Jan 2026 11:29:53 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:In the UK 'whitebait' are fried fish eaten whole...
On 11/01/2026 05:39, rbowman wrote:
He tells a plausible story. In 'Collapse' Jared Diamond claims that
one of the reasons for the abandonment of Greenland along with
climate change was an irrational reluctance of the Norse to eat fish.
Excuse me? He bases that on the lack of fish bones in the middens.
I've never had it but I think the process of producing h|ikarl might
dissolve the bones.
They are probably so hungry they ate the bones as well..
We used to have fried smelts, fins, tail, and scales, usually without
the head. This isn't the best area for seafood but the only ones I've
seen in the market lately were marked as bait.
On 1/11/26 19:19, c186282 wrote:
-a Alas without detailed records we may find old THINGS,"It's a ritual object."
-a but what they MEANT, their context, is forever lost. That's just
-a half a view of 'history'.
On 11 Jan 2026 21:38:00 GMT Niklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com>
wrote:
Butter, lots of butter. Big problem if the cows died off and there
was no butter. It shows up around here at Christmas time. I've been
told by knowledgeable people Norwegians in the US eat lutefisk and
Norwegians in Norway eat frozen pizza.
I am not that familiar with that aspect of our neighbors, but I can
believe it. We have lutfisk (yes, we spell it without the E) and I
certainly don't care for it. Fortunately, very rarely has anyone
attempted to serve it to me.
It's Considered Traditional among the older generations of Norwegian- Americans, to the point where you can find it in the grocery store in
the northern Midwest. Have never tried it myself, but I've seen (and
smelled) it at family gatherings.
Now krumkake, *that's* a slice of the Ol d Country I can get behind.
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> writes:pudding/
On Mon, 12 Jan 2026 00:47:29 GMT, Scott Lurndal wrote:
http://linuxmafia.com/humour/power-of-lutefisk.html
The only good thing about lutefisk is that it is generally accompanied
by meatballs and mashed potatoes (and lefse).
Is isn't that bad. That's not to say it's good.
It's blandly neutral.
He says as the gelatinous fishy slime slides down his throat :-)
We had it twice a year for decades. Yes, butter helps to mask
the the flavor, but nothing masks the consistency (or lack thereof).
Desert (Rommegrot) was good, if not particularly healthy:
https://www.cheaprecipeblog.com/2015/04/rommegrot-norwegian-cream-
If the code is not mine, I would use the compiler options instead.
Unless I got paid to maintain that code, then I would correct the code.
On Mon, 12 Jan 2026 08:11:36 -0800, John Ames wrote:
A friend who was active in a Norway based church told me a lot of the Sons >are really German. It's a nice clubhouse so why build your own when you
can invade Norway?
Now if only computer people could follow this rule. Our rule seems
to be "why not add just this one more feature"
To be fair, I'm sure a lot of computer people are doing this under
duress, being ordered by the marketroids (who have the ear of
management) to add yet another shiny thing.
If the code were mine, I would correct the code. Even back then, I
did not take the assumption that a function would return an integer
:-D
On Mon, 12 Jan 2026 17:03:19 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
To be fair, I'm sure a lot of computer people are doing this under
duress, being ordered by the marketroids (who have the ear of
management) to add yet another shiny thing.
ArenrCOt you glad the Free Software world isnrCOt driven by marketroids?
if they can only
get a fraction of their userbase to pay $200/mo. for a Magical Chatbot Friend, good freakin' luck squeezing any more blood from *that* turnip.
Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?= <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:
ArenrCOt you glad the Free Software world isnrCOt driven by marketroids?
It's not?
AI Overview
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e2/Eric_S_Raymond_portrait.jpg
Eric S. Raymond (ESR), the well-known open-source advocate, began charging
speaking fees for corporate events in 1999 but waives fees for schools and
user groups; however, specific current fee amounts aren't publicly listed,
requiring direct contact with booking agents or his website, though general
estimates for similar speakers suggest fees could range from thousands to
tens of thousands depending on the event and his involvement.
On Mon, 12 Jan 2026 08:11:36 -0800, John Ames wrote:
On 11 Jan 2026 21:38:00 GMT Niklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com>
wrote:
Butter, lots of butter. Big problem if the cows died off and there
was no butter. It shows up around here at Christmas time. I've been
told by knowledgeable people Norwegians in the US eat lutefisk and
Norwegians in Norway eat frozen pizza.
I am not that familiar with that aspect of our neighbors, but I can
believe it. We have lutfisk (yes, we spell it without the E) and I
certainly don't care for it. Fortunately, very rarely has anyone
attempted to serve it to me.
It's Considered Traditional among the older generations of Norwegian-
Americans, to the point where you can find it in the grocery store in
the northern Midwest. Have never tried it myself, but I've seen (and
smelled) it at family gatherings.
Now krumkake, *that's* a slice of the Ol d Country I can get behind.
It appears in the grocery stores here around Christmas.
https://www.sofn.com/norwegian_culture/recipe_box/ baked_goods_breads_and_desserts/rosettes/
The local Sons of Norway lodge has a booth at the fair where they sell 'vikings' and rosettes. The rosettes are good. The vikings are deep fried mystery meat on a stick sort of like a corndog. They're okay. The problem
is there is usually a long line.
https://www.sofnmissoula.com/
A friend who was active in a Norway based church told me a lot of the Sons are really German. It's a nice clubhouse so why build your own when you
can invade Norway?
He says as the gelatinous fishy slime slides down his throat EfOe
We had it twice a year for decades. Yes, butter helps to mask
the the flavor, but nothing masks the consistency (or lack thereof).
On 1/12/26 10:14, John Ames wrote:
if they can only
get a fraction of their userbase to pay $200/mo. for a Magical Chatbot
Friend, good freakin' luck squeezing any more blood from *that* turnip.
Make it a s*xbot, and all the incels will pay to imagine they have a girlfriend.
On Mon, 12 Jan 2026 07:45:11 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:
On 1/11/26 19:19, c186282 wrote:
-a Alas without detailed records we may find old THINGS,"It's a ritual object."
-a but what they MEANT, their context, is forever lost. That's just
-a half a view of 'history'.
I've heard some fascinating explanations for the petroglyphs in the US
west. My personal explanation is the tribe sent bored teenagers up to a lookout where lacking cellphones they chipped away at the rocks.
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> writes:
On Mon, 12 Jan 2026 07:45:11 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:
On 1/11/26 19:19, c186282 wrote:
-a Alas without detailed records we may find old THINGS,"It's a ritual object."
-a but what they MEANT, their context, is forever lost. That's just
-a half a view of 'history'.
I've heard some fascinating explanations for the petroglyphs in the US
west. My personal explanation is the tribe sent bored teenagers up to a
lookout where lacking cellphones they chipped away at the rocks.
You may not be that far off. Have a read of _The Nature Of Paelolithic
Art_ (R. Dale Guthrie) - itrCOs not short but if yourCOre interested in that sort of thing, itrCOd be time well spent.
https://press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/311260.html has a copy of the introduction.
Oh, now *that* looks like a good read. Many thanks, will definitelyAlas without detailed records we may find old THINGS, but what
they MEANT, their context, is forever lost. That's just half a
view of 'history'.
"It's a ritual object."
I've heard some fascinating explanations for the petroglyphs in the
US west. My personal explanation is the tribe sent bored teenagers
up to a lookout where lacking cellphones they chipped away at the
rocks.
You may not be that far off. Have a read of _The Nature Of Paelolithic
Art_ (R. Dale Guthrie) - itrCOs not short but if yourCOre interested in
that sort of thing, itrCOd be time well spent.
On 1/12/26 11:45, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 12 Jan 2026 08:11:36 -0800, John Ames wrote:
On 11 Jan 2026 21:38:00 GMT Niklas Karlsson <nikke.karlsson@gmail.com>
wrote:
Butter, lots of butter.-a Big problem if the cows died off and there >>>>> was no butter.-a It shows up around here at Christmas time. I've been >>>>> told by knowledgeable people Norwegians in the US eat lutefisk and
Norwegians in Norway eat frozen pizza.
I am not that familiar with that aspect of our neighbors, but I can
believe it. We have lutfisk (yes, we spell it without the E) and I
certainly don't care for it. Fortunately, very rarely has anyone
attempted to serve it to me.
It's Considered Traditional among the older generations of Norwegian-
Americans, to the point where you can find it in the grocery store in
the northern Midwest. Have never tried it myself, but I've seen (and
smelled) it at family gatherings.
Now krumkake, *that's* a slice of the Ol d Country I can get behind.
It appears in the grocery stores here around Christmas.
https://www.sofn.com/norwegian_culture/recipe_box/
baked_goods_breads_and_desserts/rosettes/
The local Sons of Norway lodge has a booth at the fair where they sell
'vikings' and rosettes. The rosettes are good. The vikings are deep fried
mystery meat on a stick sort of like a corndog. They're okay. The problem
is there is usually a long line.
https://www.sofnmissoula.com/
A friend who was active in a Norway based church told me a lot of the
Sons
are really German. It's a nice clubhouse so why build your own when you
can invade Norway?
Garrison Keillor had a nice take on Norwegians vs. Germans in Lake
Woebegone
On 12/01/2026 15:44, Scott Lurndal wrote:
-a-a He says as the gelatinous fishy slime slides down his throat EfOe
-a-a We had it twice a year for decades.-a Yes, butter helps to mask
the the flavor, but nothing masks the consistency (or lack thereof).
Oysters: "like swallowing someone else's cold snot"
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> writes:
On Mon, 12 Jan 2026 07:45:11 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:
On 1/11/26 19:19, c186282 wrote:
-a Alas without detailed records we may find old THINGS,"It's a ritual object."
-a but what they MEANT, their context, is forever lost. That's just
-a half a view of 'history'.
I've heard some fascinating explanations for the petroglyphs in the US
west. My personal explanation is the tribe sent bored teenagers up to a
lookout where lacking cellphones they chipped away at the rocks.
You may not be that far off. Have a read of _The Nature Of Paelolithic
Art_ (R. Dale Guthrie) - itrCOs not short but if yourCOre interested in that sort of thing, itrCOd be time well spent.
https://press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/311260.html has a copy of the introduction.
On Sun, 11 Jan 2026 17:58:31 -0500, c186282 wrote:
Many stocks of fish are already depleted or nearly so,
and that's just at CURRENT levels of consumption. The "bounty of the
sea" is NOT unlimited, not at all.
Some of the species I see in the market would have been classified as cat food 60 years ago.
On 11/01/2026 21:35, rbowman wrote:
On Sun, 11 Jan 2026 11:26:50 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 11/01/2026 01:51, c186282 wrote:
Stick to my estimation that England perhaps ranks
-a as the "most invaded" country ever-a EfOe
Yes, until 1066, after which it became the least.
Nothing like having a navy comprised of pirates.
And a merchant class comprised of pirates... Wasn't there a Monty Python
sketch about that?
Dunno. There is a Trumpian experiment ongoing to see exactly where that leads, of course...
In the end, we developed democracy. The amount of loot the war winners gained was always less than they spent on defeating the opposition.
Probably the USA will end up doing the same.
After having explored all the other alternatives.
Elizabeth I is quoted as saying 'war is such a chancy thing' or similar.
On Mon, 12 Jan 2026 07:52:46 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:
Now if only computer people could follow this rule. Our rule seems
to be "why not add just this one more feature"
We follow EinsteinrCOs rule: rCLthings should be as complicated as they
need to be, but no more.rCY
On 2026-01-12, Lawrence DrCOOliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On Mon, 12 Jan 2026 07:52:46 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:
Now if only computer people could follow this rule. Our rule seems
to be "why not add just this one more feature"
We follow EinsteinrCOs rule: rCLthings should be as complicated as they
need to be, but no more.rCY
s/complicated/simple/
On 2026-01-12, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Sun, 11 Jan 2026 17:58:31 -0500, c186282 wrote:
Many stocks of fish are already depleted or nearly so,
and that's just at CURRENT levels of consumption. The "bounty of the >>> sea" is NOT unlimited, not at all.
Some of the species I see in the market would have been classified as cat
food 60 years ago.
I've heard this described as "eating our way down the food chain".
On Tue, 13 Jan 2026 00:24:02 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2026-01-12, Lawrence DrCOOliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:
On Mon, 12 Jan 2026 07:52:46 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:
Now if only computer people could follow this rule. Our rule seems
to be "why not add just this one more feature"
We follow EinsteinrCOs rule: rCLthings should be as complicated as they
need to be, but no more.rCY
s/complicated/simple/
Really?? The man who brought Riemann tensors into physics?
On Mon, 12 Jan 2026 17:03:19 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
To be fair, I'm sure a lot of computer people are doing this under
duress, being ordered by the marketroids (who have the ear of
management) to add yet another shiny thing.
ArenrCOt you glad the Free Software world isnrCOt driven by marketroids?
Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?= <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:Eric_S_Raymond_portrait.jpg
On Mon, 12 Jan 2026 17:03:19 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
To be fair, I'm sure a lot of computer people are doing this under
duress, being ordered by the marketroids (who have the ear of
management) to add yet another shiny thing.
ArenrCOt you glad the Free Software world isnrCOt driven by marketroids?
It's not?
AI Overview
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e2/
Eric S. Raymond (ESR), the well-known open-source advocate, began
charging speaking fees for corporate events in 1999 but waives fees
for schools and user groups; however, specific current fee amounts
aren't publicly listed, requiring direct contact with booking agents
or his website, though general estimates for similar speakers suggest
fees could range from thousands to tens of thousands depending on the
event and his involvement.
On 2026-01-12, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
Lawrence =?iso-8859-13?q?D=FFOliveiro?= <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:
ArenrCOt you glad the Free Software world isnrCOt driven by marketroids?
It's not?
AI Overview
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e2/ Eric_S_Raymond_portrait.jpg
Eric S. Raymond (ESR), the well-known open-source advocate, began
charging speaking fees for corporate events in 1999 but waives fees
for schools and user groups; however, specific current fee amounts
aren't publicly listed, requiring direct contact with booking agents
or his website, though general estimates for similar speakers
suggest fees could range from thousands to tens of thousands
depending on the event and his involvement.
Was ESR ever nearly as influential as he tried to make it look, though?
OK, so he got speaking fees (unclear how often or how much), but did he
have much effect on actual FOSS projects?
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> writes:
On Mon, 12 Jan 2026 08:11:36 -0800, John Ames wrote:
A friend who was active in a Norway based church told me a lot of the
Sons are really German. It's a nice clubhouse so why build your own when >>you can invade Norway?
Small village where my father grew up had two churches. A norwegian lutheran church and a german lutheran church (ALC and Wisconson Synod,
IIRC). Never the twain shall meet.
On Mon, 12 Jan 2026 19:52:39 GMT, Scott Lurndal wrote:
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> writes:
On Mon, 12 Jan 2026 08:11:36 -0800, John Ames wrote:
A friend who was active in a Norway based church told me a lot of the
Sons are really German. It's a nice clubhouse so why build your own when >>> you can invade Norway?
Small village where my father grew up had two churches. A norwegian
lutheran church and a german lutheran church (ALC and Wisconson Synod,
IIRC). Never the twain shall meet.
No kidding. I was interested in the food, not the theology, but Immanuel Lutheran is ECLA. First Lutheran, about a mile away, is Missouri Synod. I think the Missouri folks consider the ELCA folks to be baby-raping, communistic, apostates. Both the pastor and assistant pastor at Immanuel
are women and that's a non-starter for LCMS.
Put it into the trash - it'd attract ten species of roving animals
... that fish smell is infinitely attractive. Don't think the garbage
service would be very friendly to a 50 pound concrete brick on top of
my trash bin .........
Oh, are nothing but slimy nasty fish to be found in the North Sea ???
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> writes:
On Mon, 12 Jan 2026 07:45:11 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:
On 1/11/26 19:19, c186282 wrote:
-a Alas without detailed records we may find old THINGS,"It's a ritual object."
-a but what they MEANT, their context, is forever lost. That's just
-a half a view of 'history'.
I've heard some fascinating explanations for the petroglyphs in the US
west. My personal explanation is the tribe sent bored teenagers up to a
lookout where lacking cellphones they chipped away at the rocks.
You may not be that far off. Have a read of _The Nature Of Paelolithic
Art_ (R. Dale Guthrie) - itrCOs not short but if yourCOre interested in that sort of thing, itrCOd be time well spent.
https://press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/311260.html has a copy of the introduction.
Like the Norse graffiti at Maes Howe that says something like 'Hagars
wife is a good fuck'
Concerning graffiti, nothing changes...
I tend to agree ... most petroglyphs DO look like things bored
kiddies would scrawl. Lacking spray-paint, well, you use what you
have.
Do you think Microsoft would get involved with a GPL project?
How many other FOSS projects use the MIT, Apache, Zero Clause BSD, or
other permissive licenses?
"Abendessen" ("evening meal")ITYM "meal eaten whilst trying to figure out why the damn program keeps crashing"
On the other hand, this coming July 4 sounds like an appropriate time to
wind up the Great Experiment. Two hundred and fifty years to the day...
How many other FOSS projects use the MIT, Apache, Zero Clause BSD, or
other permissive licenses?
I don't know offhand, but I've always been under the impression the
licenses you mentioned are all relatively widespread.
AMAZING how TINY ideological diffs can be turned into MAJOR, kill 'em
all, rifts
On 1/12/26 15:46, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 12/01/2026 15:44, Scott Lurndal wrote:
-a-a He says as the gelatinous fishy slime slides down his throat EfOe
-a-a We had it twice a year for decades.-a Yes, butter helps to mask
the the flavor, but nothing masks the consistency (or lack thereof).
Oysters: "like swallowing someone else's cold snot"
-a They're awful .....
-a Oh, are nothing but slimy nasty fish to be found
-a in the North Sea ???
On Mon, 12 Jan 2026 18:17:25 -0500, c186282 wrote:
I tend to agree ... most petroglyphs DO look like things bored
kiddies would scrawl. Lacking spray-paint, well, you use what you
have.
https://www.ancientartarchive.org/handprints-universal-symbol-humanity/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4I49uteH-EA
I've had an informal interest in experimental archaeology. If you say to yourself "I'm here in this environment, how do I make a living?" some of
the theories of armchair archaeologists don't make sense.
The hard part is viewing the scene with fresh eyes. I know how to make a figure 4 trap or deadfall. Do I have to assume Ogg never figured it out?
I've ground corn with a mano and metate. Can I assume an early human
wouldn't have figured out rubbing hard seeds between two rocks didn't make them easier to eat?
Perhaps, but it's so much _fun_ (if you're into that sort of thing).
On 2026-01-07 23:49, rbowman wrote:
On 2026-01-06 19:57, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
<snip>
It is possible that current C compilers signal many more problems that
back then, but not runtime errors.
gcc has become pickier. That isn't always a welcome thing when working
with legacy code and requires a search of the compiler options to get it
to shut up about such horrible heresies as assuming a function returns an
int.
If the code were mine, I would correct the code. Even back then, I did
not take the assumption that a function would return an integer :-D
I wrote explicit prototypes in the header file. :-)
If the code is not mine, I would use the compiler options instead.
Unless I got paid to maintain that code, then I would correct the code.
On 13 Jan 2026 06:31:43 GMT, Niklas Karlsson wrote:
How many other FOSS projects use the MIT, Apache, Zero Clause BSD, or
other permissive licenses?
I don't know offhand, but I've always been under the impression the
licenses you mentioned are all relatively widespread.
Precisely. Raymond's argument was restrictive licenses would deter FOSS development.
On Mon, 12 Jan 2026 22:58:32 -0500, c186282 wrote:
Put it into the trash - it'd attract ten species of roving animals
... that fish smell is infinitely attractive. Don't think the garbage
service would be very friendly to a 50 pound concrete brick on top of
my trash bin .........
You do realize there is water packed tuna?
and it's gone long before the trash panda gets wind of it. I do get
sardines in oil and after I get the fish out the can goes on the deck. Not
as popular as tuna juice but community cats will eat almost anything.
Except Blue Buffalo. The cats wouldn't eat it. The raccoon wouldn't eat
it. The skunk managed to choke it down.
On Mon, 12 Jan 2026 22:58:32 -0500, c186282 wrote:Yes, and I have some. It's all I used to eat. Then
Put it into the trash - it'd attract ten species of roving animals
... that fish smell is infinitely attractive. Don't think the garbage
service would be very friendly to a 50 pound concrete brick on top of
my trash bin .........
You do realize there is water packed tuna?
I drain it into the cat's bowl
and it's gone long before the trash panda gets wind of it. I do get
sardines in oil and after I get the fish out the can goes on the deck. Not
as popular as tuna juice but community cats will eat almost anything.
Except Blue Buffalo. The cats wouldn't eat it. The raccoon wouldn't eat
it. The skunk managed to choke it down.
On Mon, 12 Jan 2026 18:12:38 -0500, c186282 wrote:
Oh, are nothing but slimy nasty fish to be found in the North Sea ???
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fishes_of_the_North_Sea
Anything edible is vulnerable or endangered, even the eels.
On Mon, 12 Jan 2026 20:58:16 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Like the Norse graffiti at Maes Howe that says something like 'Hagars
wife is a good fuck'
Concerning graffiti, nothing changes...
Then there is the one at the Hagia Sophia in Istanbul 'Halfdan was here'
On 2026-01-13, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On 13 Jan 2026 06:31:43 GMT, Niklas Karlsson wrote:
How many other FOSS projects use the MIT, Apache, Zero Clause BSD, or
other permissive licenses?
I don't know offhand, but I've always been under the impression the
licenses you mentioned are all relatively widespread.
Precisely. Raymond's argument was restrictive licenses would deter FOSS
development.
Fair enough, but to go back to where this subthread came from, does that
make him a marketroid? Or just an advocate, maybe agitator if you're
feeling dramatic?
"Marketroid" makes me think of something rather more pernicious than
just copyleft vs. copycenter (to reference the Jargon File, speaking of
ESR).
Niklas
Except Blue Buffalo. The cats wouldn't eat it. The raccoon wouldn't eat
it. The skunk managed to choke it down.
I haven't seen the 'raccoon test' mentioned in their ads ... I wonder
why ?
On 1/13/26 00:50, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 12 Jan 2026 18:12:38 -0500, c186282 wrote:
Oh, are nothing but slimy nasty fish to be found in the North Sea
???
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fishes_of_the_North_Sea
Anything edible is vulnerable or endangered, even the eels.
Clearly somebody really REALLY liked fish there in the past :-)
I wonder if they can transplant some N.Atlantic species ?
Assuming there's anything for THEM to eat ...
Don't fix what ain't broke, you might break it [1] :-D
[1] I'm speaking from experience.
On Tue, 13 Jan 2026 12:38:24 -0500, c186282 wrote:
Except Blue Buffalo. The cats wouldn't eat it. The raccoon wouldn't eat
it. The skunk managed to choke it down.
I haven't seen the 'raccoon test' mentioned in their ads ... I wonder
why ?
I see their ads, I think on Netflix, with dogs. I get a chuckle but then dogs like to roll in shit. Blue has had recalls and isn't spoken of too highly. I didn't do any prior research, saw it at CostCo, and thought the cats might like a switch from Friskies. No go.
On Tue, 13 Jan 2026 12:38:24 -0500, c186282 wrote:
Except Blue Buffalo. The cats wouldn't eat it. The raccoon wouldn't eat
it. The skunk managed to choke it down.
I haven't seen the 'raccoon test' mentioned in their ads ... I wonder
why ?
I see their ads, I think on Netflix, with dogs. I get a chuckle but then >dogs like to roll in shit.
On Tue, 13 Jan 2026 12:41:52 -0500, c186282 wrote:
On 1/13/26 00:50, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 12 Jan 2026 18:12:38 -0500, c186282 wrote:
Oh, are nothing but slimy nasty fish to be found in the North Sea
???
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fishes_of_the_North_Sea
Anything edible is vulnerable or endangered, even the eels.
Clearly somebody really REALLY liked fish there in the past :-)
I wonder if they can transplant some N.Atlantic species ?
Assuming there's anything for THEM to eat ...
I think cod, flounder, haddock, and halibut are about fished out in the >North Atlantic too. Maybe even sardines.
https://www.islandinstitute.org/working-waterfront/27423/
'Maine' sardines come from Latvia. I visited a sardine factory in the
To get your attention, he finds objects to claw at, rug corners to flip
up and down ("flop... flop... flop"), and things like TV remotes to
knock to the floor. In bed, he comes up to your ear canal and starts
licking, sometimes puncturing nose or arm with his claw.
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> writes:
On Tue, 13 Jan 2026 12:38:24 -0500, c186282 wrote:
Except Blue Buffalo. The cats wouldn't eat it. The raccoon wouldn't
eat it. The skunk managed to choke it down.
I haven't seen the 'raccoon test' mentioned in their ads ... I
wonder why ?
I see their ads, I think on Netflix, with dogs. I get a chuckle but then >>dogs like to roll in shit.
I wouldn't say that they like it. It's more of a hunting instinct to
mask their scent when upwind of prey.
I still visit a Sardine factory occasionally.
<https://www.sardinefactory.com/>
Unfortunately, the west coast actual sardine stocks were rather famously exhausted in the late 1950's. As documented in _Cannery Row_.
50 years later, they had mostly returned, but even absent commercial
fishing, the numbers started to decrease in 2019.
rbowman wrote this post by blinking in Morse code:
On Tue, 13 Jan 2026 12:38:24 -0500, c186282 wrote:
Except Blue Buffalo. The cats wouldn't eat it. The raccoon wouldn't eat >>>> it. The skunk managed to choke it down.
I haven't seen the 'raccoon test' mentioned in their ads ... I wonder >>> why ?
I see their ads, I think on Netflix, with dogs. I get a chuckle but then
dogs like to roll in shit. Blue has had recalls and isn't spoken of too
highly. I didn't do any prior research, saw it at CostCo, and thought the
cats might like a switch from Friskies. No go.
Maybe they don't like propylene glycol.
My remaining old cat has gotten really finicky lately. It's gotta
be Sheba with turkey chunks.
When he gets hungry, he has an annoying meow. I made a
notification sound of it for my phone.
To get your attention, he finds objects to claw at, rug corners to
flip up and down ("flop... flop... flop"), and things like TV
remotes to knock to the floor. In bed, he comes up to your ear
canal and starts licking, sometimes puncturing nose or arm with
his claw.
<https://i.etsystatic.com/11398216/r/il/ed564e/5346410883/il_794xN.5346410883_rona.jpg>
The cat is an asshole.
At least he hasn't knocked the TV over yet.
On Tue, 13 Jan 2026 22:41:07 GMT, Scott Lurndal wrote:
I still visit a Sardine factory occasionally.
<https://www.sardinefactory.com/>
Trust me, the one I went to didn't look like that.
Unfortunately, the west coast actual sardine stocks were rather famously
exhausted in the late 1950's. As documented in _Cannery Row_.
50 years later, they had mostly returned, but even absent commercial
fishing, the numbers started to decrease in 2019.
I liked Steinbeck's novels. When I finally made it to Monterey I wasn't
all that impressed.
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> writes:
On Tue, 13 Jan 2026 22:41:07 GMT, Scott Lurndal wrote:
I still visit a Sardine factory occasionally.
<https://www.sardinefactory.com/>
Trust me, the one I went to didn't look like that.
Unfortunately, the west coast actual sardine stocks were rather famously >>> exhausted in the late 1950's. As documented in _Cannery Row_.
50 years later, they had mostly returned, but even absent commercial
fishing, the numbers started to decrease in 2019.
I liked Steinbeck's novels. When I finally made it to Monterey I wasn't >>all that impressed.
That all depends on your expectations. We often drive
down on a Sunday morning just to walk the old rail line from the
antique mall to Lover's point or the John Denver memorial.
scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes:
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> writes:
On Tue, 13 Jan 2026 22:41:07 GMT, Scott Lurndal wrote:
I still visit a Sardine factory occasionally.
<https://www.sardinefactory.com/>
Trust me, the one I went to didn't look like that.
Unfortunately, the west coast actual sardine stocks were rather famously >>>> exhausted in the late 1950's. As documented in _Cannery Row_.
50 years later, they had mostly returned, but even absent commercial
fishing, the numbers started to decrease in 2019.
I liked Steinbeck's novels. When I finally made it to Monterey I wasn't
all that impressed.
That all depends on your expectations. We often drive
down on a Sunday morning just to walk the old rail line from the
antique mall to Lover's point or the John Denver memorial.
I proposed to my wife at lover's point. Ahh memories.
On 1/18/26 15:30, Daniel wrote:
scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) writes:
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> writes:
On Tue, 13 Jan 2026 22:41:07 GMT, Scott Lurndal wrote:
I still visit a Sardine factory occasionally.
<https://www.sardinefactory.com/>
Trust me, the one I went to didn't look like that.
Unfortunately, the west coast actual sardine stocks were rather famously >>>>> exhausted in the late 1950's. As documented in _Cannery Row_.
50 years later, they had mostly returned, but even absent commercial >>>>> fishing, the numbers started to decrease in 2019.
I liked Steinbeck's novels. When I finally made it to Monterey I wasn't >>>> all that impressed.
That all depends on your expectations. We often drive
down on a Sunday morning just to walk the old rail line from the
antique mall to Lover's point or the John Denver memorial.
I proposed to my wife at lover's point. Ahh memories.
There's a "John Denver Memorial" ???
On 10/01/2026 23:39, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
Depends on your definition of prehistoric. Or ancient history.
On 1/10/26 11:44, rbowman wrote:
On Sat, 10 Jan 2026 07:42:47 -0700, Peter Flass wrote:
It did if you lived in Doggerland, or used to walk from Australia
to Indonesia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone_Spring
The rest of the trilogy, 'Bronze Summer' and 'Iron Winter', are
okay but the focus moves from Doggerland.
When Doggerland is submerged and the people have to leave it it
seems totally logical that the focus would change to ancientry.
Remember Doggerland was prehistoric so I cannot even say ancienty
history but whatever the author according to his education can
imagine of those times.
Archaelogy has brought mots of human 'prehistory' into the class of
'fairly well known history'
History is defined by being written.
-a I eat fish once in a while. Either canned tuna or
-a Mrs. Paul's Fish Sticks. Alas putting the 'oil'
-a down my kitchen drain means lots of visits by
-a the plumber and his roto-tool - so it's mostly
-a the fish sticks nowadays-a EfOe
On Mon, 12 Jan 2026 22:58:32 -0500, c186282 wrote:
Put it into the trash - it'd attract ten species of roving animals
... that fish smell is infinitely attractive. Don't think the garbage
service would be very friendly to a 50 pound concrete brick on top of
my trash bin .........
You do realize there is water packed tuna? I drain it into the cat's bowl--
and it's gone long before the trash panda gets wind of it. I do get
sardines in oil and after I get the fish out the can goes on the deck. Not
as popular as tuna juice but community cats will eat almost anything.
Except Blue Buffalo. The cats wouldn't eat it. The raccoon wouldn't eat
it. The skunk managed to choke it down.
In <jEf9R.2212580$Pf33.1251031@fx18.iad> Charlie Gibbs:
[Snip...}
Perhaps, but it's so much _fun_ (if you're into that sort of thing).
There's always at least one lunatic who insists the war partying
fun go on indefinitely ...
The Smell of Napalm In the Morning (Apocalypse Now) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k26hmRbDQFw
It's an Egg (Catch-22)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0UV6ug96c0
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