• Full Email Service

    From Wired Blade@wired.blade@invalid.invalid to alt.comp.software.thunderbird,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Mon Feb 23 00:28:23 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    Wired Blade offers a full email service for $20 per year. For this
    price, you will receive 10 GB of storage and 300 email accounts. You
    need your own domain to take advantage of this offer.

    They have POP/IMAP and bypass ISP port 25 blocking! This is very
    important for some, especially when using an old email client on an unsupported operating system.

    <https://www.wiredblade.com/en-US/Email>
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From R.Wieser@address@is.invalid to alt.comp.software.thunderbird,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Mon Feb 23 08:39:15 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    Dude,

    ***** ***** offers a full email service for $20 per year. For this
    price, you will receive 10 GB of storage and 300 email accounts.

    Sounds nice. But is that a good offer ?

    You need your own domain to take advantage of this offer.

    Ah well, not for the average person than.

    They have POP/IMAP and bypass ISP port 25 blocking!

    The ISPs don't block those ports (25 is just one of them), they are just not connected to their email server/service anymore. Instead they have opened
    up the SSL variants of them. And for a good reason.

    This is very important for some, especially when using an old
    email client on an unsupported operating system.

    If you can reach the company you are advertising using an old email client than proves that the ISP is not blocking port 25 (or the other ones).


    Having said all that, the *easy* solution would be to use a small wrapper/proxy program (stunnel comes to mind), which accepts non-encrypted email connections, and converts them them to SSL.

    Presto, your old-but-well-known email client will again work with those ISPs who have disallowed un-encrypted access to their mail servers.

    Regards,
    Rudy Wieser


    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Mr. Man-wai Chang@toylet.toylet@gmail.com to alt.comp.software.thunderbird,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Mon Feb 23 19:54:25 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    On 2/23/2026 3:39 PM, R.Wieser wrote:

    The ISPs don't block those ports (25 is just one of them), they are just not connected to their email server/service anymore. Instead they have opened
    up the SSL variants of them. And for a good reason.

    ISPs are trying to prevent non-business customers from running their own
    SMTP server (TCP port 25) to spam the world.
    --
    @~@ Simplicity is Beauty! Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch!
    / v \ May the Force and farces be with you! Live long and prosper!!
    /( _ )\ https://sites.google.com/site/changmw/
    ^ ^ https://github.com/changmw/changmw
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From R.Wieser@address@is.invalid to alt.comp.software.thunderbird,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Mon Feb 23 13:46:33 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    Mr. Man-wai Chang,

    ISPs are trying to prevent non-business customers from running their own SMTP server (TCP port 25) to spam the world.

    I'm not sure how blocking that port would block spamming, as using the equivalent SSL port for it would also work.

    AFAICT the usage of SSL connections has the same reason as always : snooping gets harder (for one, the users authentication cannot be sniffed anymore).

    Though I did hear, long ago, that some ISPs routed the SMTP port connections (standard and SSL) only to their own email servers. For the reason you described.

    Regards,
    Rudy Wieser


    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Paul@nospam@needed.invalid to alt.comp.software.thunderbird,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Mon Feb 23 08:36:13 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    On Mon, 2/23/2026 7:46 AM, R.Wieser wrote:
    Mr. Man-wai Chang,

    ISPs are trying to prevent non-business customers from running their own
    SMTP server (TCP port 25) to spam the world.

    I'm not sure how blocking that port would block spamming, as using the equivalent SSL port for it would also work.

    AFAICT the usage of SSL connections has the same reason as always : snooping gets harder (for one, the users authentication cannot be sniffed anymore).

    Though I did hear, long ago, that some ISPs routed the SMTP port connections (standard and SSL) only to their own email servers. For the reason you described.

    Regards,
    Rudy Wieser



    The protocol is blocked by the ISP DPI box. It doesn't even matter
    what port you attempt it on, Port 25 closes down just as easily
    as Port 1025, if the SMTP protocol is sniffed by the DPI box
    examining packet payloads.

    At one time, network equipment designers would not look at a payload
    for any reason. It was headers-only for analysis and transport. But
    today, the DPI box examines whole packets and nothing is sacred :-)

    Paul
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Mr. Man-wai Chang@toylet.toylet@gmail.com to alt.comp.software.thunderbird,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Mon Feb 23 22:51:23 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    On 2/23/2026 9:47 PM, R.Wieser wrote:

    I doubt it. It would mean that noone can use another email server than the one the ISP offers - if it offers one to begin with that is.

    If a customer spammed from a ISP network, that ISP would be held
    responsible. :)
    --
    @~@ Simplicity is Beauty! Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch!
    / v \ May the Force and farces be with you! Live long and prosper!!
    /( _ )\ https://sites.google.com/site/changmw/
    ^ ^ https://github.com/changmw/changmw
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Paul@nospam@needed.invalid to alt.comp.software.thunderbird,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Mon Feb 23 10:06:12 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    On Mon, 2/23/2026 8:47 AM, R.Wieser wrote:
    Paul,

    The protocol is blocked by the ISP DPI box.

    I doubt it. It would mean that noone can use another email server than the one the ISP offers - if it offers one to begin with that is.

    Regards,
    Rudy Wieser



    I believe who is blocked, is anyone from outside an ISP
    attempting to use an "open" SMTP implemented inside the ISP.
    I can set up an SMTP server on Port 25, and if you try to
    reach my 1.2.3.4:25 SMTP server, you would be blocked from doing so.
    It's also quite possible, that my next door neighbour using my
    ISP as well, could not reach my SMTP server on Port 25.
    If I move my server to 1.2.3.4:1025, it is the protocol
    which is effectively blocked, and any port number observed
    to be carrying inbound SMTP gets blocked.

    If you have a business account, the rules are different.
    You're not supposed to be running *any* server on a $39.95 per
    month consumer plan.

    And the funny part is, when you phone up tech support and
    ask them if there is any blocking or filtering going on,
    the entry level tech support will vehemently deny they block
    things. When every ISP tends to have the same rule set.

    If any ISP were to start emitting spam email traffic,
    there are tables of spammers available for other ISPs to block,
    so you would soon find that your ability to "handle (spam) mail
    successfully" was blocked.

    If you read the article, you can see the technical capabilities
    are pretty amazing. And by implementing this at the edge of the
    network, and using thousands of DPI boxes, you can do complex
    things at scale.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_packet_inspection

    Blocking isn't done just with routers, the DPI boxes are
    much more flexible about it.

    If there is a naughty thing you should not be doing,
    the ISP has a filter for that.

    Paul
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From R.Wieser@address@is.invalid to alt.comp.software.thunderbird,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Mon Feb 23 16:26:40 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    Mr. Man-wai Chang

    I doubt it. It would mean that noone can use another email server than
    the one the ISP offers - if it offers one to begin with that is.

    If a customer spammed from a ISP network, that ISP would be held responsible. :)

    :-) Apart from a few top-level organisations, *everyone* has an ISP.

    If someone comes (police, gouverment) to blame them they just grab the usage-log and pass the bucket.

    Regards,
    Rudy Wieser


    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From R.Wieser@address@is.invalid to alt.comp.software.thunderbird,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Mon Feb 23 17:18:52 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    Paul,

    I believe who is blocked, is anyone from outside an ISP
    attempting to use an "open" SMTP implemented inside the ISP.

    And that would solve .... what exactly ?

    You can't just throw some SMTP traffic at an IP (within your own ISPs
    segment or not) and expect it to work.

    If I move my server to 1.2.3.4:1025, it is the protocol
    which is effectively blocked,

    Trying to do any kind of inspection, even a deep one, doesn't work all that well when SSL is used.

    You're not supposed to be running *any* server on a $39.95
    per month consumer plan.

    Why not ? To an ISP its the ammount of data that counts. Also, having a home server for VPN access from your smartphone (and than out into the world again) is a rather accepted thing to do. Heck, the some modems/routers
    have build-in VPN server capabilities.

    Heck, even my own internet modem has port-forwarding capabilities - for exactly that purpose.

    If any ISP were to start emitting spam email traffic,
    there are tables of spammers available for other ISPs to
    block, so you would soon find that your ability to "handle
    (spam) mail successfully" was blocked.

    You are the only one here that is talking about spam...

    If there is a naughty thing you should not be doing,
    the ISP has a filter for that.

    Ah yes, trying to use a different email provider than the one your ISP (not) offers is *ofcourse* naughty.

    Funny that I can use a newsgroup provider (ES) which is *definitily* not in
    my ISPs segment, but wanting to be able to use another email provider is a no-no.

    Regards,
    Rudy Wieser


    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Paul@nospam@needed.invalid to alt.comp.software.thunderbird,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Mon Feb 23 15:04:29 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    On Mon, 2/23/2026 11:18 AM, R.Wieser wrote:
    Paul,

    You're not supposed to be running *any* server on a $39.95
    per month consumer plan.

    Why not ? To an ISP its the ammount of data that counts. Also, having a home server for VPN access from your smartphone (and than out into the world again) is a rather accepted thing to do. Heck, the some modems/routers have build-in VPN server capabilities.

    Heck, even my own internet modem has port-forwarding capabilities - for exactly that purpose.

    Check the TOS. A sampling here.

    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18238827

    Unlimited accounts are not unlimited. If the plan is $39.95, and
    a gigabyte costs $0.03 on Level3, then there is a cap of how
    many gigabytes can be sent... before the ISP loses money. This
    is lightly covered in the TOS by "you may not do anything with
    the service which inconveniences or affects other users at our ISP".

    Someone actually tried to do that. The operator of PostImage,
    rented server space which had some sort of unlimited terminology.
    PostImage was running up a $30,000 per month bill for the ISP to support
    their bandwidth on transit links. Eventually, a bill was sent
    to the PostImage operator, asking for payment for this "overage".
    Apparently the bandwidth per month is at the petabyte level.

    Most commercial services have a defined value for the cap every
    month. When I checked the price on Hetzner, I think I could
    get a machine for $60 a month, and that included a 25TB cap.
    These are considered to be commercial servers, and you
    have to install and administer the server type yourself. The OS
    is installed for you, as far as I know, and you can install
    or compile your own packages to run on it.

    Look at Gallaxial as an example of a server run from
    someones basement. Due to at least some ISP options
    being "asymmetric", the upload direction is slow, and
    running a USENET server that way, it doesn't exactly
    give you a read-only USENET service that runs fast. The
    limitation on the free servers is mostly the software
    stack, the hardware having much more capability than the
    software can use.

    If the TOS is written in wishy-washy language ("to cover everything"),
    there may not be an honest admission of the "rules". If you step
    out of line, they'll make something up.

    When the AIOE admin, Paolo, made some casual comments about
    what he thought of his COLO provider, in terms of service
    and support, they subscribed to that Google alerter service,
    where any mention of a keyword, Google would send an email
    about it. When the COLO found out about the (quite reasonable)
    comments, they instantly closed his account and took his
    server. He could not rescue the content. And the reason
    they could get away with that was... Italian law. That's
    an extreme example of what the blowback can be when you
    engage a commercial service. Absolutely over the top response.
    That's why Paolos next rental to run AIOE, was a German server
    under German law. It took about six months in total, to create
    brand new web server content for the site. The INN server
    didn't take that long to set up.

    Paul

    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Maria Sophia@mariasophia@comprehension.com to alt.comp.software.thunderbird,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Mon Feb 23 14:24:48 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    Paul wrote:
    Unlimited accounts are not unlimited.

    On that note, almost nothing that marketing claims is "unlimited" is
    actually unlimited, where, case in point, I have a T-Mobile cellular plan
    that offers "unlimited data", which is actually unlimited only if you take
    into account that they'll slow it down after 50GB/months on the same tower.

    <https://www.t-mobile.com/cell-phone-plans>
    "Most unlimited plans give you an amount of data at the start of your
    bill cycle where you are prioritized higher than customers who are
    heavy data users. This data is called Premium Data. Once you have
    used that data, you are prioritized lower than other customers and
    you may notice lower speeds in times and places with network congestion."

    Actually, I think the cellular part (i.e., phone calls) is unlimited
    (within the USA), but I've never known anyone to talk 24/7 for 30 days.
    --
    On Usenet, we pass along knowledge that once we had to learn ourselves.
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From R.Wieser@address@is.invalid to alt.comp.software.thunderbird,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Mon Feb 23 21:43:55 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    Paul,

    Check the TOS. A sampling here.

    You have a reading problem.

    I said, in the part you quoted yourself :

    "To an ISP its the ammount of data that counts.".

    The only thing you did is use more words.

    Regards,
    Rudy Wieser


    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Paul@nospam@needed.invalid to alt.comp.software.thunderbird,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Mon Feb 23 18:29:30 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    On Mon, 2/23/2026 3:43 PM, R.Wieser wrote:
    Paul,

    Check the TOS. A sampling here.

    You have a reading problem.

    I said, in the part you quoted yourself :

    "To an ISP its the ammount of data that counts.".

    The only thing you did is use more words.

    Regards,
    Rudy Wieser

    Jesus, Rudy. Do I have to do *everything* for you???

    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18238827

    "gsreenivas on Oct 17, 2018 | next [rCo]

    hey jawns, great question. I'm Giri Sreenivas, co-founder and CEO of Helm.
    To answer your question, ISPs block port 25 and email service providers
    typically reject emails coming from residential IP blocks.
    "

    If you read the thread, you get some idea what restrictions
    ISPs put on their service. If they do not succeed at spam control
    in this way, they are put on block tables and the problem is
    solved that way.

    1) The Port 25 thing does not appear in the TOS or AUP.
    2) The feature is automatic and everyone does it.
    3) If you phone tech support at the ISP, they will deny they do that.

    And the people who seek to spam the email system, they know all this.

    That's why it was funny, when a poster in the newsgroup I used
    to hang out in, documented all of this, the changing port numbers,
    the port automatically closing for 15 minutes and opening again.
    All so he could spam his "newsletter" (and failed).

    The ISPs do other things. I used to get port-scanned occasionally
    (it would even show up in the router log, with a fancy technical
    name for the detection). Today, I haven't seen a port scan (even
    from someone else at my own ISP). All that stuff seemingly filtered
    somehow (and that might not be a DPI doing that, I don't know
    the technical means).

    One reason they don't want residential customers operating
    servers, is the servers are poorly maintained and they
    generate more trouble than they are worth.

    Paul
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Brian Gregory@void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid to alt.comp.software.thunderbird,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Tue Feb 24 00:13:22 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    On 23/02/2026 13:36, Paul wrote:
    The protocol is blocked by the ISP DPI box. It doesn't even matter
    what port you attempt it on, Port 25 closes down just as easily
    as Port 1025, if the SMTP protocol is sniffed by the DPI box
    examining packet payloads.

    At one time, network equipment designers would not look at a payload
    for any reason. It was headers-only for analysis and transport. But
    today, the DPI box examines whole packets and nothing is sacred :-)

    I don't think this can be normal.
    You absolutely NEED to be able to SMTP out your emails to your outgoing
    email server.
    --
    Brian Gregory (in England).
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Nobody@jock@soccer.com to alt.comp.software.thunderbird,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Mon Feb 23 16:21:37 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    On Mon, 23 Feb 2026 18:29:30 -0500, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
    wrote:
    On Mon, 2/23/2026 3:43 PM, R.Wieser wrote:
    Paul,

    Check the TOS. A sampling here.

    You have a reading problem.

    I said, in the part you quoted yourself :

    "To an ISP its the ammount of data that counts.".

    The only thing you did is use more words.

    Regards,
    Rudy Wieser

    Jesus, Rudy.
    Tut-tut.
    With that blasphemy, you've just offended every and all right-eous, right-winged (dunno what they do with their left), PTL (er, Pass The
    Loot) gang member in the Excited States.
    Thank you, incidentally. <g>
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From J. P. Gilliver@G6JPG@255soft.uk to alt.comp.software.thunderbird,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Tue Feb 24 00:45:14 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    On 2026/2/23 16:18:52, R.Wieser wrote:
    []
    Ah yes, trying to use a different email provider than the one your ISP (not) offers is *ofcourse* naughty.
    []
    My ISP is in the process of outsourcing all its email provision, but
    AFAIK are not obliging their users to use their chosen provider (someone
    posted details - I think here was included - recently of some service
    who provide something for $30 a month); Also, my hosting provider I'm
    pretty sure offers email handling, and I doubt my ISP would object if I
    used that. Then there is gmail of course.
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()ALIS-Ch++(p)Ar++T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Char Jackson@none@none.invalid to alt.comp.software.thunderbird,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Mon Feb 23 19:20:07 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    On Tue, 24 Feb 2026 00:13:22 +0000, Brian Gregory <void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid> wrote:

    On 23/02/2026 13:36, Paul wrote:
    The protocol is blocked by the ISP DPI box. It doesn't even matter
    what port you attempt it on, Port 25 closes down just as easily
    as Port 1025, if the SMTP protocol is sniffed by the DPI box
    examining packet payloads.

    At one time, network equipment designers would not look at a payload
    for any reason. It was headers-only for analysis and transport. But
    today, the DPI box examines whole packets and nothing is sacred :-)

    I don't think this can be normal.
    You absolutely NEED to be able to SMTP out your emails to your outgoing >email server.

    All this talk about blocking SMTP, and other types of traffic, refers exclusively to *inbound* traffic, meaning traffic coming *to* a
    residential or consumer location. *Outbound* traffic, to the email
    server of your choice, or to any other server of your choice, has never
    been the problem.

    On a related note, I haven't seen a port 25 SMTP server in many years.
    They seem to have moved to port 465 or 587, depending on the encryption protocol being used.

    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From R.Wieser@address@is.invalid to alt.comp.software.thunderbird,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Tue Feb 24 08:09:10 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    Paul,

    Jesus, Rudy. Do I have to do *everything* for you???

    Jesus Paul, do I have to repeat *everything* for you???

    Blocking port 25 at the ISPs border means that you cannot use another email service than the one your ISP offers - or does *NOT* offer.

    That might be acceptable in your country, but over here thats a bit of a no-no.

    "To answer your question, ISPs block port 25".

    I take it that the dude who said that has personally contacted all ISPs *all over the world* and asked them to confirm it ? If you have no idea than
    you are /at best/ gullible, and I've got a bridge to sell you.

    Besides ofcourse that "ISPs block port 25" is ambigue. Which I also have already mentioned.

    If you read the thread, you get some idea what restrictions
    ISPs put on their service

    Same thing as the above. Do not try to extrapolate some persons "we do it {this way}" statement to be covering everyone everywhere.

    Regards,
    Rudy Wieser


    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Adam H. Kerman@ahk@chinet.com to alt.comp.software.thunderbird,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Tue Feb 24 08:24:46 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    R.Wieser <address@is.invalid> wrote:

    Paul,

    Jesus, Rudy. Do I have to do *everything* for you???

    Jesus Paul, do I have to repeat *everything* for you???

    Blocking port 25 at the ISPs border means that you cannot use another email >service than the one your ISP offers - or does *NOT* offer.

    That might be acceptable in your country, but over here thats a bit of a >no-no.

    I use the email address from the ISP for service-related messages. I
    have addresses used for specific purposes and I use SMTP servers
    associated with the respective inbox. The connection is made to
    the Submit server (port 587) per RFC 3676 instead of the SMTP port (25).

    This is set up in the client. If I were running a Mail server, the ISP
    would happily sell me a business plan. Friends who run Mail servers pay
    for virtual hosts at server farms, not the ISP.

    You make an arrangement and pay for the service you need. In my decades
    of experience, if I was asked not to use port 25, switching to port 587, communicating with a foreign Mail server has never been an issue. For
    years, whenever I set up a client with new settings, I just use port 587
    and not port 25.

    I do not use the mailbox through the ISP except for communication with
    them. All other mailboxes are on foreign networks.

    . . .
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From R.Wieser@address@is.invalid to alt.comp.software.thunderbird,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Tue Feb 24 10:41:11 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    John,

    My ISP is in the process of outsourcing all its email provision, but
    AFAIK are not obliging their users to use their chosen provider

    Here in Europe such an "you *must* use this, and pay for it whatever they
    ask" forcing would get them into quite a bit of hot water with the Law.

    service who provide something for $30 a month); Also, my hosting provider
    I'm pretty sure offers email handling, and I doubt my ISP would object if
    I
    used that. Then there is gmail of course.

    Thanks for confirming what I've been saying to Paul.

    A warning though : I just read that gmail is phasing out POP3 (and thus
    likely also SMTP and similar) access to it.

    Regards,
    Rudy Wieser


    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From R.Wieser@address@is.invalid to alt.comp.software.thunderbird,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Tue Feb 24 10:16:21 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    Adam,

    I use the email address from the ISP for service-related messages.
    I have addresses used for specific purposes and I use SMTP servers
    associated with the respective inbox. The connection is made to
    the Submit server (port 587) per RFC 3676 instead of the SMTP port
    (25).

    Thanks for confirming that SMTP traffic is not, by DPI boxes or otherwise, blocked in an ISPs network or at its border.

    Yes, using an encrypted connection instead of a plain-text one is ofcourse a good idea, and I can easily imagine why an ISP decides that /its own/ email service does not offer plain-text access (port 25 and others) to them
    anymore.

    Heck, even my own ISP has (just a few years ago!) stopped doing that.

    ... and with it ofcourse negating the whole reason for blocking port 25 traffic. :-)


    By the way: I just took a look at that RFC you mentioned and could neither find "25", "587" nor the word "port" in it.

    Another "by the way" : did you know that one of the email related RFCs specifies that an email server should accept *all* SMTP requests, even from people who are unknown to it ?

    Years ago I was quite disgusted when I found out that not even enabeling name/password access to the email service ment it would stop anyone from
    using my name and email-addy in theirs - not even on that same server
    (making it *very* hard to spot a joe-jobber).

    regards,
    Rudy Wieser


    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Daniel70@daniel47@nomail.afraid.org to alt.comp.software.thunderbird,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Tue Feb 24 21:24:53 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    On 24/02/2026 11:45 am, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
    On 2026/2/23 16:18:52, R.Wieser wrote:
    []
    Ah yes, trying to use a different email provider than the one your ISP (not) >> offers is *ofcourse* naughty.
    []
    My ISP is in the process of outsourcing all its email provision, but
    AFAIK are not obliging their users to use their chosen provider (someone posted details - I think here was included - recently of some service
    who provide something for $30 a month); Also, my hosting provider I'm
    pretty sure offers email handling, and I doubt my ISP would object if I
    used that. Then there is gmail of course.

    Not eMail but similar .... back in about 2000, my then ISP stopped
    carrying UseNet because the Australian Federal Police had seized another
    ISP's servers because that ISP had been carrying UseNet groups
    concerning Child-Porn .... and my ISP was worried that his Server might
    just have gotten caught up in the sweep.
    --
    Daniel70
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Adam H. Kerman@ahk@chinet.com to alt.comp.software.thunderbird,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Tue Feb 24 10:42:45 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    R.Wieser <address@is.invalid> wrote:

    Adam,

    I use the email address from the ISP for service-related messages.
    I have addresses used for specific purposes and I use SMTP servers >>associated with the respective inbox. The connection is made to
    the Submit server (port 587) per RFC 3676 instead of the SMTP port
    (25).

    Wrong RFC

    Thanks for confirming that SMTP traffic is not, by DPI boxes or otherwise, >blocked in an ISPs network or at its border.

    port 587 uses STARTTLS, unencrypted connection at the start, with
    encryption negotiated.

    Another "by the way" : did you know that one of the email related RFCs >specifies that an email server should accept *all* SMTP requests, even from >people who are unknown to it ?

    Because filtering at the server communication level was not anticipated.
    I have been blocked at client and server levels when I get caught up in
    some policy change.

    . . .
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From J. P. Gilliver@G6JPG@255soft.uk to alt.comp.software.thunderbird,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Tue Feb 24 13:35:08 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    On 2026/2/24 9:41:11, R.Wieser wrote:
    John,

    My ISP is in the process of outsourcing all its email provision, but
    AFAIK are not obliging their users to use their chosen provider

    Here in Europe such an "you *must* use this, and pay for it whatever they ask" forcing would get them into quite a bit of hot water with the Law.PlusNet have arranged with Greenly that it will be free for the first
    two years, and then 15 pounds a year thereafter, which isn't a lot;
    however, they've not _obliged_ their users to use Greenly even
    initially. (Though I get the impression that if users want to retain
    their PN addresses, they _do_ have to; what you say about the law is interesting. Though I suspect tied-in "addresses" would be excluded. I
    moved away from an ISP-tied email address some years ago, after the Demon/Vodafone debacle.) I get the clear impression that PlusNet would
    be delighted to be rid of _all_ email matters (presumably they have come
    to an arrangement with Greenly re email addresses and server names for now).

    service who provide something for $30 a month); Also, my hosting provider
    I'm pretty sure offers email handling, and I doubt my ISP would object if >> I
    used that. Then there is gmail of course.

    Thanks for confirming what I've been saying to Paul.

    A warning though : I just read that gmail is phasing out POP3 (and thus likely also SMTP and similar) access to it.
    Interesting, and predictable. (I do have a gmail address, though have
    never used it [I have to remember to connect to it occasionally to keep
    it alive], but have only used webmail to access it.) Sad though.

    Regards,
    Rudy Wieser


    And from me.
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()ALIS-Ch++(p)Ar++T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From R.Wieser@address@is.invalid to alt.comp.software.thunderbird,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Tue Feb 24 16:15:51 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    John,

    however, they've not _obliged_ their users to use Greenly even
    initially.

    I was thinking about Paul's suggested case where a users SMTP traffic was
    not allowed to exit the ISPs area of control. (and the ISP could ofcourse control who would be able to run an email server).

    The idea about forced usage came from something I read some time ago : a landlord (of appartment buildings) who dictated which ISP had to be used by its renters (which just screamed "kickback!" to me). If I'm not mistaken
    that case has been given to the judges to decide.

    Though I get the impression that if users want to retain their PN
    addresses,
    they _do_ have to;

    That sounds logical : a new email provider with its own domain name means
    that the users emails domain part needs to change too.

    AFAIK the only way that would /not/ be needed is when the DNS is configured
    to return, for the origional ISPs domain, the IP of the email provider
    taking over all the origional ISP's email.

    Regards,
    Rudy Wieser


    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Paul@nospam@needed.invalid to alt.comp.software.thunderbird,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Tue Feb 24 10:51:03 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    On Mon, 2/23/2026 8:20 PM, Char Jackson wrote:


    refers exclusively to *inbound* traffic

    On a related note, I haven't seen a port 25 SMTP server in many years.
    They seem to have moved to port 465 or 587, depending on the encryption protocol being used.

    The person in the newsgroup who was doing the Port 25 *inbound* test
    and Port 1025 (or any-port) *inbound* test, was doing this before
    SSL/TLS, so this was some time ago. He was not contacted by our
    common ISP tech support, he received no nastygram about his
    activities, and the port (whatever port he tried to shove
    SMTP traffic into from the outside world) would close for 15 minutes
    (900 seconds) and open and allow any legit protocol to use the
    port again afterwards.

    The reason I valued that post, is it was naive to ever expect inbound
    to work, but the extra detail of it being blocked on *any* port,
    the port opening and closing like a mechanical door, that impressed
    the hell out of me. Doing something like that at scale. Like pampering
    three million users at that level of detail.

    Based on the effectiveness of the Chinese firewall, I expect given
    the incentive, a DPI box can interfere with just about anything.
    It just runs slower to do that. The beauty of the first generation
    of DPI box, is it was doing these things at wirespeed. I doubt
    all the intervention capabilities available today run at wirespeed
    but it just doesn't matter as long as the boxes are at the edge
    of the network for at least some of the enforcement.

    And if I haven't made this transparently obvious, in a fascist situation
    where "government is evil", this is the perfect hardware for evil.
    The difference between free speech and no free speech, is just a switch
    setting away. All the hardware is there for a good time :-/

    Paul


    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Frank Slootweg@this@ddress.is.invalid to alt.comp.software.thunderbird,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Tue Feb 24 16:03:02 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    R.Wieser <address@is.invalid> wrote:
    [...]

    A warning though : I just read that gmail is phasing out POP3 (and thus likely also SMTP and similar) access to it.

    Well, then we'll just have to re-invent GooglePOPs/GPOPs! :-)

    Explanation: In the old days, free Yahoo! e-mail accounts could not
    use POP/SMTP, so a proxy named YahooPOPs! (later YPOPS!) was developed,
    which did POP/SMTP on the e-mail client's side and HTTP on the other
    side. Of course, like currently with the YouTube downloaders, they had
    to chase each and every change which Yahoo! made on the web-side, but it worked.

    Later there were back-roads to get POP/SMTP for free Yahoo! e-mail
    accounts, so I switched to those (and still use them for any e-mail that
    might arrive in those old accounts).

    BTW, I don't think it's very likely that Gmail will drop POP et al,
    too many people and organizations depend on it.

    Yes, they might drop POP access or/and non-OAuth2 authentication, but dropping IMAP/SMTP is very unlikely IMO.

    Anyway, do you have a reference for this?
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From J. P. Gilliver@G6JPG@255soft.uk to alt.comp.software.thunderbird,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Tue Feb 24 18:31:19 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    On 2026/2/24 15:15:51, R.Wieser wrote:
    John,

    however, they've not _obliged_ their users to use Greenly even
    initially.

    I was thinking about Paul's suggested case where a users SMTP traffic was not allowed to exit the ISPs area of control. (and the ISP could ofcourse control who would be able to run an email server).

    I sort of understand - though through a glass darkly, as the saying
    goes. (But don't try to enlighten me!)

    The idea about forced usage came from something I read some time ago : a landlord (of appartment buildings) who dictated which ISP had to be used by its renters (which just screamed "kickback!" to me). If I'm not mistaken that case has been given to the judges to decide.

    Most definitely! That's like telling people they can only watch certain
    TV stations!

    Though I get the impression that if users want to retain their PN
    addresses,
    they _do_ have to;

    That sounds logical : a new email provider with its own domain name means that the users emails domain part needs to change too.

    Yes, they're sort of subsidiary email addresses. For example, my old
    Demon one was <anything I liked>@soft255.demon.co.uk; the
    <user>.demon.co.uk (and I think .demon.nl) obviously belonged to Demon
    (and eventually Vodafone), and eventually they stopped renewing it.

    AFAIK the only way that would /not/ be needed is when the DNS is configured to return, for the origional ISPs domain, the IP of the email provider taking over all the origional ISP's email.

    I don't think that _could_ even be done.
    []
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()ALIS-Ch++(p)Ar++T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    It's OK to be tight on
    The seafront at Brighton
    But I say, by Jove
    Watch out if it's Hove.
    - Sister Monica Joan, quoted by Jennifer Worth (author of the Call the
    Midwife books, quoted in Radio Times 19-25 January 2013)
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From J. P. Gilliver@G6JPG@255soft.uk to alt.comp.software.thunderbird,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Tue Feb 24 18:56:54 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    On 2026/2/24 16:3:2, Frank Slootweg wrote:
    R.Wieser <address@is.invalid> wrote:
    [...]

    A warning though : I just read that gmail is phasing out POP3 (and thus
    likely also SMTP and similar) access to it.

    Well, then we'll just have to re-invent GooglePOPs/GPOPs! :-)

    Explanation: In the old days, free Yahoo! e-mail accounts could not
    use POP/SMTP, so a proxy named YahooPOPs! (later YPOPS!) was developed,
    which did POP/SMTP on the e-mail client's side and HTTP on the other
    side. Of course, like currently with the YouTube downloaders, they had
    to chase each and every change which Yahoo! made on the web-side, but it worked.

    Clever; like stunnel for non-encoding clients.

    Or the free-Turnpike server. Demon sold the Turnpike news/email client
    (it included a few other things, I think telnet, ping, ...); they also
    released a free version, but that would only work with them. That worked
    by having Turnpike interrogate a (hard-coded into it) server at Demon,
    and if it didn't get the right response, it wouldn't proceed. Someone eventually devised something that mimicked it - initially they actually provided the server (users had to add a line to their hosts file to
    redirect to it); eventually, someone devised a way of making a local
    version of that server that could run on the user's own machine.
    Eventually Demon (well, Vodafone) turned off their server anyway, so
    even their own customers couldn't use Turnpike if they had only the free version. By then you couldn't buy it even if you wanted it. So those
    users (as well as those who'd not bought Turnpike but were using it with
    other ISPs) were grateful for the pseudo-server!

    So man-in-the-middle softwares - even if running locally - are a
    solution to many problems.

    Later there were back-roads to get POP/SMTP for free Yahoo! e-mail accounts, so I switched to those (and still use them for any e-mail that might arrive in those old accounts).

    BTW, I don't think it's very likely that Gmail will drop POP et al,
    too many people and organizations depend on it.

    Let's hope not.

    Yes, they might drop POP access or/and non-OAuth2 authentication, but dropping IMAP/SMTP is very unlikely IMO.

    Those of us who prefer the simplicity of POP would be sad.

    Anyway, do you have a reference for this?
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()ALIS-Ch++(p)Ar++T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    The best way to achieve immortality is by not dying.
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From R.Wieser@address@is.invalid to alt.comp.software.thunderbird,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Tue Feb 24 21:16:31 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    John,

    a landlord (of appartment buildings) who dictated which ISP had to be
    used
    by its renters
    ...
    Most definitely! That's like telling people they can only watch certain
    TV stations!

    Worse : for whatver ammount of money they wanted to bill you for. :-|

    AFAIK the only way that would /not/ be needed is when the DNS is
    configured
    to return, for the origional ISPs domain, the IP of the email provider
    taking over all the origional ISP's email.

    I don't think that _could_ even be done.

    I can't remember how many years ago I came across that tidbit of info, but
    for some reason I never forgot it.

    "I have had full-time IT professionals tell me that you can't have email on
    a different server than your website, and that is obviously not the case.
    That is the whole point of mail exchange records (MX), a type of DNS
    record." https://www.godaddy.com/resources/mindset/configuring-dns-for-email-a-quick-beginners-guide

    "The MX records direct email to the appropriate mail server for a domain, facilitating email delivery." https://tecadmin.net/configure-dns-records-for-better-email-delivery/

    Regards,
    Rudy Wieser



    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Carlos E.R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to alt.comp.software.thunderbird,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Tue Feb 24 21:25:22 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    On 2026-02-23 12:54, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
    On 2/23/2026 3:39 PM, R.Wieser wrote:

    The ISPs don't block those ports (25 is just one of them), they are
    just not
    connected to their email server/service anymore.-a Instead they have
    opened
    up the SSL variants of them.-a-a And for a good reason.

    ISPs are trying to prevent non-business customers from running their own SMTP server (TCP port 25) to spam the world.


    In north america, yes. In Spain, for instance, no. here all ISPs I have
    tested don't block any port.
    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    ESEfc-Efc+, EUEfc-Efc|;
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Carlos E.R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to alt.comp.software.thunderbird,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Tue Feb 24 21:45:50 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    On 2026-02-24 02:20, Char Jackson wrote:
    On Tue, 24 Feb 2026 00:13:22 +0000, Brian Gregory <void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid> wrote:

    On 23/02/2026 13:36, Paul wrote:
    The protocol is blocked by the ISP DPI box. It doesn't even matter
    what port you attempt it on, Port 25 closes down just as easily
    as Port 1025, if the SMTP protocol is sniffed by the DPI box
    examining packet payloads.

    At one time, network equipment designers would not look at a payload
    for any reason. It was headers-only for analysis and transport. But
    today, the DPI box examines whole packets and nothing is sacred :-)

    I don't think this can be normal.
    You absolutely NEED to be able to SMTP out your emails to your outgoing
    email server.

    All this talk about blocking SMTP, and other types of traffic, refers exclusively to *inbound* traffic, meaning traffic coming *to* a
    residential or consumer location. *Outbound* traffic, to the email
    server of your choice, or to any other server of your choice, has never
    been the problem.

    On a related note, I haven't seen a port 25 SMTP server in many years.
    They seem to have moved to port 465 or 587, depending on the encryption protocol being used.


    <2.6> 2026-02-23T12:20:17.994661+01:00 Telcontar postfix 3120 - - 5FED3320F54: to=<users@lists.opensuse.org>, relay=smtp.telefonica.net[86.109.99.70]:25, delay=0.6, delays=0/0.01/0.25/0.34, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 2.0.0 Ok: queued as 4fKJL96Pryz16JrS)


    And I am on a home IP address.
    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    ESEfc-Efc+, EUEfc-Efc|;
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Char Jackson@none@none.invalid to alt.comp.software.thunderbird,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Tue Feb 24 15:08:39 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    On 24 Feb 2026 16:03:02 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid>
    wrote:

    R.Wieser <address@is.invalid> wrote:
    [...]

    A warning though : I just read that gmail is phasing out POP3 (and thus
    likely also SMTP and similar) access to it.

    Well, then we'll just have to re-invent GooglePOPs/GPOPs! :-)

    Explanation: In the old days, free Yahoo! e-mail accounts could not
    use POP/SMTP, so a proxy named YahooPOPs! (later YPOPS!) was developed,
    which did POP/SMTP on the e-mail client's side and HTTP on the other
    side. Of course, like currently with the YouTube downloaders, they had
    to chase each and every change which Yahoo! made on the web-side, but it >worked.

    Later there were back-roads to get POP/SMTP for free Yahoo! e-mail
    accounts, so I switched to those (and still use them for any e-mail that >might arrive in those old accounts).

    BTW, I don't think it's very likely that Gmail will drop POP et al,
    too many people and organizations depend on it.

    Yes, they might drop POP access or/and non-OAuth2 authentication, but
    dropping IMAP/SMTP is very unlikely IMO.

    Anyway, do you have a reference for this?

    It's not really correct. Google says the POP3-change only affects a
    Gmail feature called "Check mail from other accounts (POP3)", which is
    where you've configured Gmail to collect email from one or more third
    party email accounts in an effort to consolidate all of your email in
    one place. Gmail users who don't use that feature will see no changes.

    Most people probably don't use that feature. I don't.

    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Char Jackson@none@none.invalid to alt.comp.software.thunderbird,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Tue Feb 24 15:14:47 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    On Tue, 24 Feb 2026 16:15:51 +0100, "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid>
    wrote:

    John,

    however, they've not _obliged_ their users to use Greenly even
    initially.

    I was thinking about Paul's suggested case where a users SMTP traffic was >not allowed to exit the ISPs area of control. (and the ISP could ofcourse >control who would be able to run an email server).

    I'll let him clarify, but I think he was referring to SMTP traffic, on
    port 25 or not, that was historically not allowed to *enter* the ISPs
    network if it's addressed to a residential address. It wouldn't make
    sense to restrict outbound traffic in that way.

    The idea about forced usage came from something I read some time ago : a >landlord (of appartment buildings) who dictated which ISP had to be used by >its renters (which just screamed "kickback!" to me). If I'm not mistaken >that case has been given to the judges to decide.

    Though I get the impression that if users want to retain their PN
    addresses,
    they _do_ have to;

    That sounds logical : a new email provider with its own domain name means >that the users emails domain part needs to change too.

    Usually, but not necessarily. It's normally a business decision, rather
    than a technical decision.

    AFAIK the only way that would /not/ be needed is when the DNS is configured >to return, for the origional ISPs domain, the IP of the email provider >taking over all the origional ISP's email.

    DNS is one way, but that's an all-or-nothing approach. There are more
    granular methods that are especially useful in the case of a staggered
    user migration that's intended to be transparent to the user.

    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Char Jackson@none@none.invalid to alt.comp.software.thunderbird,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Tue Feb 24 15:16:18 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    On Tue, 24 Feb 2026 18:31:19 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk>
    wrote:

    On 2026/2/24 15:15:51, R.Wieser wrote:
    John,

    however, they've not _obliged_ their users to use Greenly even
    initially.

    I was thinking about Paul's suggested case where a users SMTP traffic was >> not allowed to exit the ISPs area of control. (and the ISP could ofcourse >> control who would be able to run an email server).

    I sort of understand - though through a glass darkly, as the saying
    goes. (But don't try to enlighten me!)

    The idea about forced usage came from something I read some time ago : a
    landlord (of appartment buildings) who dictated which ISP had to be used by >> its renters (which just screamed "kickback!" to me). If I'm not mistaken >> that case has been given to the judges to decide.

    Most definitely! That's like telling people they can only watch certain
    TV stations!

    Though I get the impression that if users want to retain their PN
    addresses,
    they _do_ have to;

    That sounds logical : a new email provider with its own domain name means >> that the users emails domain part needs to change too.

    Yes, they're sort of subsidiary email addresses. For example, my old
    Demon one was <anything I liked>@soft255.demon.co.uk; the
    <user>.demon.co.uk (and I think .demon.nl) obviously belonged to Demon
    (and eventually Vodafone), and eventually they stopped renewing it.

    AFAIK the only way that would /not/ be needed is when the DNS is configured >> to return, for the origional ISPs domain, the IP of the email provider
    taking over all the origional ISP's email.

    I don't think that _could_ even be done.
    []

    It can. My team and I do that sort of thing on a regular basis.

    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Char Jackson@none@none.invalid to alt.comp.software.thunderbird,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Tue Feb 24 15:50:34 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    On Tue, 24 Feb 2026 21:45:50 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
    <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

    On 2026-02-24 02:20, Char Jackson wrote:
    On Tue, 24 Feb 2026 00:13:22 +0000, Brian Gregory
    <void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid> wrote:

    On 23/02/2026 13:36, Paul wrote:
    The protocol is blocked by the ISP DPI box. It doesn't even matter
    what port you attempt it on, Port 25 closes down just as easily
    as Port 1025, if the SMTP protocol is sniffed by the DPI box
    examining packet payloads.

    At one time, network equipment designers would not look at a payload
    for any reason. It was headers-only for analysis and transport. But
    today, the DPI box examines whole packets and nothing is sacred :-)

    I don't think this can be normal.
    You absolutely NEED to be able to SMTP out your emails to your outgoing
    email server.

    All this talk about blocking SMTP, and other types of traffic, refers
    exclusively to *inbound* traffic, meaning traffic coming *to* a
    residential or consumer location. *Outbound* traffic, to the email
    server of your choice, or to any other server of your choice, has never
    been the problem.

    On a related note, I haven't seen a port 25 SMTP server in many years.
    They seem to have moved to port 465 or 587, depending on the encryption
    protocol being used.


    <2.6> 2026-02-23T12:20:17.994661+01:00 Telcontar postfix 3120 - - 5FED3320F54: to=<users@lists.opensuse.org>, relay=smtp.telefonica.net[86.109.99.70]:25, delay=0.6, delays=0/0.01/0.25/0.34, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 2.0.0 Ok: queued as 4fKJL96Pryz16JrS)


    And I am on a home IP address.

    I can't say that I've never been to Spain, but I've never been there to
    inspect mail servers. Thanks for the info.

    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Carlos E.R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to alt.comp.software.thunderbird,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Wed Feb 25 00:01:12 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    On 2026-02-24 22:50, Char Jackson wrote:
    On Tue, 24 Feb 2026 21:45:50 +0100, "Carlos E.R."
    <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

    On 2026-02-24 02:20, Char Jackson wrote:
    On Tue, 24 Feb 2026 00:13:22 +0000, Brian Gregory
    <void-invalid-dead-dontuse@email.invalid> wrote:

    On 23/02/2026 13:36, Paul wrote:
    The protocol is blocked by the ISP DPI box. It doesn't even matter
    what port you attempt it on, Port 25 closes down just as easily
    as Port 1025, if the SMTP protocol is sniffed by the DPI box
    examining packet payloads.

    At one time, network equipment designers would not look at a payload >>>>> for any reason. It was headers-only for analysis and transport. But
    today, the DPI box examines whole packets and nothing is sacred :-)

    I don't think this can be normal.
    You absolutely NEED to be able to SMTP out your emails to your outgoing >>>> email server.

    All this talk about blocking SMTP, and other types of traffic, refers
    exclusively to *inbound* traffic, meaning traffic coming *to* a
    residential or consumer location. *Outbound* traffic, to the email
    server of your choice, or to any other server of your choice, has never
    been the problem.

    On a related note, I haven't seen a port 25 SMTP server in many years.
    They seem to have moved to port 465 or 587, depending on the encryption
    protocol being used.


    <2.6> 2026-02-23T12:20:17.994661+01:00 Telcontar postfix 3120 - - 5FED3320F54: to=<users@lists.opensuse.org>, relay=smtp.telefonica.net[86.109.99.70]:25, delay=0.6, delays=0/0.01/0.25/0.34, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 2.0.0 Ok: queued as 4fKJL96Pryz16JrS)


    And I am on a home IP address.

    I can't say that I've never been to Spain, but I've never been there to inspect mail servers. Thanks for the info.

    To clarify, smtp.telefonica.net is my ISP, I have to send my email to
    them on port 25. When I visit Canada, I can not send email, because Bell Canada blocks port 25, and Telef||nica refuses to listen on a different
    port but 25, when I explain the problem. They should use the submission
    port 587.

    If I am connected on a different ISP, I can send to port 25 of
    Telef||nica without any trouble.

    AFAIK, they don't block any port here.
    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    ESEfc-Efc+, EUEfc-Efc|;
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From R.Wieser@address@is.invalid to alt.comp.software.thunderbird,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Wed Feb 25 08:46:31 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    Char,

    I'll let him clarify, but I think he was referring to SMTP traffic, on
    port 25 or not, that was historically not allowed to *enter* the ISPs
    network if it's addressed to a residential address.

    I have a hard time understeanding how that would help : trying to open an
    SMTP connection to a random residents 'puter will not work.

    In the case the residents 'puter would be infected with an email (spam)
    relay it still needs to go tru the an email-server, the one of the ISP
    itself or another one. Which than could detect spam runs.

    Quite a while ago someone connected an email spam-relay infected laptop to
    our organisations network, and it got directly slapped down down by our ISP.

    But even at that time when "blocking port 25" was done I realized that a
    spam email relay using a different incoming port than 25 would bypass it. Throw in hiding the actual message in other data and you could not filter-and-block it using (D)PI either.

    Hence doing the checking/filtering on the actual email-server would be the most effective.

    It wouldn't make sense to restrict outbound traffic in that way.

    I've said that several times, and mentioned the ambiguity of "block port
    25", but didn't get a(ny) further explanation.

    Also, outbound traffic for one ISP is another ISPs incoming traffic ...

    That sounds logical : a new email provider with its own domain name
    means that the users emails domain part needs to change too.

    Usually, but not necessarily. It's normally a business decision,
    rather than a technical decision.

    Thats the other possibility I mentioned.

    DNS is one way, but that's an all-or-nothing approach.

    Yep.

    There are more granular methods that are especially useful in
    the case of a staggered user migration that's intended to be
    transparent to the user.

    True, but than the company would need to keep its email servers
    up-and-running for the duration of the migration, Which than still ends with the all-or-nothing approach.

    Regards,
    Rudy Wieser


    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Adam H. Kerman@ahk@chinet.com to alt.comp.software.thunderbird,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Wed Feb 25 16:35:41 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    R.Wieser <address@is.invalid> wrote:

    Char,

    I'll let him clarify, but I think he was referring to SMTP traffic, on
    port 25 or not, that was historically not allowed to *enter* the ISPs >>network if it's addressed to a residential address.

    I have a hard time understeanding how that would help : trying to open an >SMTP connection to a random residents 'puter will not work.

    No. The ISP or email service delivers to its user's mailbox and blocks
    the incoming connection per some useful or arbitrary reason. If there is
    some other Mail server performing delivery, then any blocking rules
    should be set up there. Unless my host is a Mail server, it should not
    be sent SMTP traffic on port 25.

    . . .
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From R.Wieser@address@is.invalid to alt.comp.software.thunderbird,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Wed Feb 25 19:30:51 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    Adam,

    I have a hard time understeanding how that would help : trying to open an >>SMTP connection to a random residents 'puter will not work.

    No. The ISP or email service delivers to its user's mailbox and blocks
    the incoming connection

    I ment, outside of that kind of rigamarole. Imagine the ISP doing
    absolutily nothing in that regard. How would than trying to send SMTP
    traffic to a random residents 'puter work ? Most people do not run email servers, so such an attempt would fail.

    But, you've described how an ISP would intercept SMTP traffic, and put the message into the users mailbox (the ISP has for them). Do you have any idea on which grounds they would do that ? Something the ISP could/would do
    which can't be done by the user itself perhaps ?

    Regards,
    Rudy Wieser


    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Frank Slootweg@this@ddress.is.invalid to alt.comp.software.thunderbird,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Wed Feb 25 19:05:09 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    Char Jackson <none@none.invalid> wrote:
    On 24 Feb 2026 16:03:02 GMT, Frank Slootweg <this@ddress.is.invalid>
    wrote:

    R.Wieser <address@is.invalid> wrote:
    [...]

    A warning though : I just read that gmail is phasing out POP3 (and thus >> likely also SMTP and similar) access to it.
    [...]
    Anyway, do you have a reference for this?

    It's not really correct. Google says the POP3-change only affects a
    Gmail feature called "Check mail from other accounts (POP3)", which is
    where you've configured Gmail to collect email from one or more third
    party email accounts in an effort to consolidate all of your email in
    one place. Gmail users who don't use that feature will see no changes.

    Most people probably don't use that feature. I don't.

    Thanks for the heads up. Yes, I know of that feature and have used it
    in the past for a short period, but haven't used it for many, many
    years.

    OTOH, the feature can be handly if you have a MSP (Mail SP) with bad
    spam handling [1], so you can let Gmail handle the spam.

    [1] "<My_main_MSP>, are you listening!?" :-(
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Lars Poulsen@lars@beagle-ears.com to alt.comp.software.thunderbird,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Thu Feb 26 00:11:49 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    On 2026-02-24, R.Wieser <address@is.invalid> wrote:
    I was thinking about Paul's suggested case where a users SMTP traffic was not allowed to exit the ISPs area of control. (and the ISP could ofcourse control who would be able to run an email server).

    The idea about forced usage came from something I read some time ago : a landlord (of appartment buildings) who dictated which ISP had to be used by its renters (which just screamed "kickback!" to me). If I'm not mistaken that case has been given to the judges to decide.

    The wording here is ambiguous. "ISP" sometimes means "Transport
    provider" and in other contexts means "provider of services on top of
    the transport".

    If the physical network is provided by the government or a regulated
    monopoly (which is the case in much of Europe), the regulations may
    require them to make transport available to other providers. In that
    case, the fiber termination box creates a "virtual circuit" to one of a
    number of service providers, and the customer's provider relationship is
    with that tenant. European mobile telephone service also tends to work
    that way: All the mobile providers use the same towers, owner by the
    (sometimes former) PTT. In the US, this is only seen at the municipal
    level, and is quite rare. In many states, cities are PROHIBITED from
    setting up such a system.

    In the USA, the coax or fiber to the home is owned by the ISP, which is
    often the Cable TV company. And if a second fiber network is built out
    by someone else, the contract between the cable TV and the landlord
    often spells out that no other network provider will be allowed to
    acquire customers from residents in the apartment complex.

    In the US, the industry as captured the regulatory system.

    Or as Peter Thiel said (possibly paraphrased: "I find Liberty and
    Democracy to be somewhat incompatible." Liberty meaning the freeedom of capitalists to maximize rent collection from their investments.
    --
    Lars Poulsen - an old geek in Santa Barbara, California
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Char Jackson@none@none.invalid to alt.comp.software.thunderbird,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Wed Feb 25 20:19:23 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    On Wed, 25 Feb 2026 08:46:31 +0100, "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid>
    wrote:

    Char,

    I'll let him clarify, but I think he was referring to SMTP traffic, on
    port 25 or not, that was historically not allowed to *enter* the ISPs
    network if it's addressed to a residential address.

    I have a hard time understeanding how that would help : trying to open an >SMTP connection to a random residents 'puter will not work.

    I don't think any of this applies any more, or maybe it still does on
    legacy ISPs that were originally designed to deliver TV signals, but
    several assumptions have to be in place for any of this to work.

    No ISP meddling - the topic of this discussion
    Port forwarding in place, if necessary
    Appropriate server configured and listening at the target address

    So it's not really a random destination. It's someone who has taken
    steps to configure a server, (SMTP, HTTP, FTP, etc.), including port
    forwarding since nearly everyone uses NAT these days.

    I don't remember now if Paul was saying his ISP still blocks any inbound
    ports, but my current ISP does not. The ISP that I used from 1997 to
    2012 did block quite a few well known ports, inbound only, of course,
    just to make sure no one ran a server out of their home, but I'm not
    there anymore so I don't know the current state of things there.

    I know I just expanded the discussion from SMTP:25 to a bunch of other
    server types, but TBH I never knew of anyone who wanted to run their own
    mail server, but I knew of lots of people who wanted to serve up a
    simple web page or even offer FTP services.

    In the case the residents 'puter would be infected with an email (spam) >relay it still needs to go tru the an email-server, the one of the ISP >itself or another one. Which than could detect spam runs.

    Quite a while ago someone connected an email spam-relay infected laptop to >our organisations network, and it got directly slapped down down by our ISP.

    But even at that time when "blocking port 25" was done I realized that a >spam email relay using a different incoming port than 25 would bypass it. >Throw in hiding the actual message in other data and you could not >filter-and-block it using (D)PI either.

    Hence doing the checking/filtering on the actual email-server would be the >most effective.

    It wouldn't make sense to restrict outbound traffic in that way.

    I've said that several times, and mentioned the ambiguity of "block port >25", but didn't get a(ny) further explanation.

    Also, outbound traffic for one ISP is another ISPs incoming traffic ...

    That sounds logical : a new email provider with its own domain name
    means that the users emails domain part needs to change too.

    Usually, but not necessarily. It's normally a business decision,
    rather than a technical decision.

    Thats the other possibility I mentioned.

    DNS is one way, but that's an all-or-nothing approach.

    Yep.

    There are more granular methods that are especially useful in
    the case of a staggered user migration that's intended to be
    transparent to the user.

    True, but than the company would need to keep its email servers >up-and-running for the duration of the migration, Which than still ends with >the all-or-nothing approach.

    Exactly. When I'm involved in something like this, it's usually because
    of a merger, acquisition, outsourcing, etc., and the management team
    wants the migration to go slowly and well-managed to the point where no
    one knows that it's happening, rather than a hard cutover like you'd get
    with a DNS change. Once everyone is migrated, you still have to do the
    DNS update, after which the temporary pieces can be torn down.

    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Char Jackson@none@none.invalid to alt.comp.software.thunderbird,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Wed Feb 25 20:29:42 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    On Wed, 25 Feb 2026 19:30:51 +0100, "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid>
    wrote:

    Adam,

    I have a hard time understeanding how that would help : trying to open an >>>SMTP connection to a random residents 'puter will not work.

    No. The ISP or email service delivers to its user's mailbox and blocks
    the incoming connection

    I ment, outside of that kind of rigamarole. Imagine the ISP doing >absolutily nothing in that regard. How would than trying to send SMTP >traffic to a random residents 'puter work ? Most people do not run email >servers, so such an attempt would fail.

    In case no one else has, I just wanted to acknowledge and agree with
    what you said above. You can't just send application traffic to an IP
    address and hope for the best. Well, with UDP, maybe, but with TCP you
    need a listener to be 'listening' on the specified port.

    But, you've described how an ISP would intercept SMTP traffic, and put the >message into the users mailbox (the ISP has for them). Do you have any idea >on which grounds they would do that ? Something the ISP could/would do >which can't be done by the user itself perhaps ?

    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From R.Wieser@address@is.invalid to alt.comp.software.thunderbird,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Thu Feb 26 08:26:13 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    Char,

    I have a hard time understeanding how that would help : trying to open
    an SMTP connection to a random residents 'puter will not work.

    I don't think any of this applies any more, or maybe it still does on
    legacy ISPs that were originally designed to deliver TV signals, but
    several assumptions have to be in place for any of this to work.

    I was trying to figure out how "block port 25", in all its ambiguity, would help anyone, IPS and resident alike, with anything.

    Assuming SMTP traffic :

    It would not help residents, for the reason I stated (and no, UDP packets would not get anywhere either. :-) ).

    It would not help the ISP, as it itself would still need to be able to
    receive port 25 trafic (pre SSL era)

    It would not stop spam-relays, as they could easily choose another incoming port and mask the data.

    So, assuming that any port 25 communication to anyone but the ISP is dropped (blocked), how does that help ? The worst you would get, when no blocking
    of any kind would be applied, is some spam-relays playing ping-pong with
    each other, and being slapped down when they try to target an actual email server.

    in short: either I'm missing something important, or (a blanket?) blocking
    of SMTP traffic was done for another reason than the ISPs stated.


    As for the stated question as in the subject line, due to its ambiguity, its unanswerable. As mentioned before, an ISP might never have tampered with
    port 25 traffic in any way, but just have stopped offering port 25 access on their email server in favour of one of the SSL ones.

    I know I just expanded the discussion from SMTP:25 to a bunch of
    other server types, but TBH I never knew of anyone who wanted to
    run their own mail server, but I knew of lots of people who wanted
    to serve up a simple web page or even offer FTP services.

    :-) Thats a bit of an chicken-and-the-egg story. When it was blocked trying to run an email server would be an exercise in futility. When it would not have been blocked, I can easily imagine an email server next to the webpage and FTP services (instead of having to pay a third party to host it) - quite
    a number of webpages include an email adress to send remarks to /
    communicate with the pages owner/maintainer.

    Regards,
    Rudy Wieser


    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Mr. Man-wai Chang@toylet.toylet@gmail.com to alt.comp.software.thunderbird,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Thu Feb 26 17:49:34 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    On 2/25/2026 4:25 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    On 2026-02-23 12:54, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:

    ISPs are trying to prevent non-business customers from running their own
    SMTP server (TCP port 25) to spam the world.

    In north america, yes. In Spain, for instance, no. here all ISPs I have tested don't block any port.


    Possibly because the world now has huge bandwidth, and they have better methods (maybe including A.I.) to detect and catch ill-behaved customers.
    --
    @~@ Simplicity is Beauty! Remain silent! Drink, Blink, Stretch!
    / v \ May the Force and farces be with you! Live long and prosper!!
    /( _ )\ https://sites.google.com/site/changmw/
    ^ ^ https://github.com/changmw/changmw
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Carlos E.R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to alt.comp.software.thunderbird,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Thu Feb 26 12:41:45 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    On 2026-02-26 10:49, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:
    On 2/25/2026 4:25 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    On 2026-02-23 12:54, Mr. Man-wai Chang wrote:

    ISPs are trying to prevent non-business customers from running their own >>> SMTP server (TCP port 25) to spam the world.

    In north america, yes. In Spain, for instance, no. here all ISPs I have
    tested don't block any port.


    Possibly because the world now has huge bandwidth, and they have better methods (maybe including A.I.) to detect and catch ill-behaved customers.

    Oh, they have been the same since I first connected around year 2000.

    In fact, in the past I sent my email directly using my sendmail to
    various (corporate) recipients.
    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    ESEfc-Efc+, EUEfc-Efc|;
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Char Jackson@none@none.invalid to alt.comp.software.thunderbird,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Thu Feb 26 11:34:22 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    On Thu, 26 Feb 2026 08:26:13 +0100, "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid>
    wrote:

    [lots snipped]

    I was trying to figure out how "block port 25", in all its ambiguity, would >help anyone, IPS and resident alike, with anything.

    Assuming SMTP traffic :

    It would not help residents, for the reason I stated (and no, UDP packets >would not get anywhere either. :-) ).

    It would not help the ISP, as it itself would still need to be able to >receive port 25 trafic (pre SSL era)

    It would not stop spam-relays, as they could easily choose another incoming >port and mask the data.

    So, assuming that any port 25 communication to anyone but the ISP is dropped >(blocked), how does that help ? The worst you would get, when no blocking >of any kind would be applied, is some spam-relays playing ping-pong with >each other, and being slapped down when they try to target an actual email >server.

    in short: either I'm missing something important, or (a blanket?) blocking >of SMTP traffic was done for another reason than the ISPs stated.

    I'm at the edge of what I remember, so I checked Google and they offer
    up other reasons for ISPs blocking ports. *shrug* ISPs not wanting to
    look bad by being the source of spam, for example.

    [more snipped]

    Thanks for rattling the memory cage. I think I may have some holes in
    there.

    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Carlos E.R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to alt.comp.software.thunderbird,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Thu Feb 26 18:58:08 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    On 2026-02-26 03:19, Char Jackson wrote:
    On Wed, 25 Feb 2026 08:46:31 +0100, "R.Wieser" <address@is.invalid>
    wrote:

    Char,

    I'll let him clarify, but I think he was referring to SMTP traffic, on
    port 25 or not, that was historically not allowed to *enter* the ISPs
    network if it's addressed to a residential address.

    I have a hard time understeanding how that would help : trying to open an
    SMTP connection to a random residents 'puter will not work.

    I don't think any of this applies any more, or maybe it still does on
    legacy ISPs that were originally designed to deliver TV signals, but
    several assumptions have to be in place for any of this to work.

    No ISP meddling - the topic of this discussion
    Port forwarding in place, if necessary
    Appropriate server configured and listening at the target address

    So it's not really a random destination. It's someone who has taken
    steps to configure a server, (SMTP, HTTP, FTP, etc.), including port forwarding since nearly everyone uses NAT these days.

    Having your own web server is easy. Relatively safe, you do not accept incoming files that will saturate your server or make you do things you
    do not want to do. An FTP server may be more complicated, and it needs
    two ports. Today a home user will use ssh instead to host files (for
    friends) and is much safer. Sharing with unknowns, maybe http is still
    easier. Receiving files, may need ftp.

    But smtp, has some danger. The server is complicated, and they may trick
    you into relaying email out. Or you may receive bucket loads of spam you
    do not want. On the other hand, it you want to exchange messages with
    friends without google knowing, your own mail server is the way to go.
    Better with encryption (possible?).

    (My ISP doesn't block anything, AFAIK)



    I don't remember now if Paul was saying his ISP still blocks any inbound ports, but my current ISP does not. The ISP that I used from 1997 to
    2012 did block quite a few well known ports, inbound only, of course,
    just to make sure no one ran a server out of their home, but I'm not
    there anymore so I don't know the current state of things there.

    I know I just expanded the discussion from SMTP:25 to a bunch of other
    server types, but TBH I never knew of anyone who wanted to run their own
    mail server, but I knew of lots of people who wanted to serve up a
    simple web page or even offer FTP services.
    ...
    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    ESEfc-Efc+, EUEfc-Efc|;
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Carlos E.R.@robin_listas@es.invalid to alt.comp.software.thunderbird,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Thu Feb 26 19:03:35 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    On 2026-02-26 01:11, Lars Poulsen wrote:
    On 2026-02-24, R.Wieser <address@is.invalid> wrote:
    I was thinking about Paul's suggested case where a users SMTP traffic was
    not allowed to exit the ISPs area of control. (and the ISP could ofcourse
    control who would be able to run an email server).

    The idea about forced usage came from something I read some time ago : a
    landlord (of appartment buildings) who dictated which ISP had to be used by >> its renters (which just screamed "kickback!" to me). If I'm not mistaken
    that case has been given to the judges to decide.

    The wording here is ambiguous. "ISP" sometimes means "Transport
    provider" and in other contexts means "provider of services on top of
    the transport".

    If the physical network is provided by the government or a regulated
    monopoly (which is the case in much of Europe), the regulations may
    require them to make transport available to other providers. In that
    case, the fiber termination box creates a "virtual circuit" to one of a number of service providers, and the customer's provider relationship is
    with that tenant. European mobile telephone service also tends to work
    that way: All the mobile providers use the same towers, owner by the (sometimes former) PTT. In the US, this is only seen at the municipal
    level, and is quite rare. In many states, cities are PROHIBITED from
    setting up such a system.

    In the USA, the coax or fiber to the home is owned by the ISP, which is
    often the Cable TV company. And if a second fiber network is built out
    by someone else, the contract between the cable TV and the landlord
    often spells out that no other network provider will be allowed to
    acquire customers from residents in the apartment complex.

    A...amazing.

    Apartment buildings here are mandated to be built with support for at
    least three telephony providers. The city may also build ducting for everybody, beneath the street.



    In the US, the industry as captured the regulatory system.

    as is has?


    Or as Peter Thiel said (possibly paraphrased: "I find Liberty and
    Democracy to be somewhat incompatible." Liberty meaning the freeedom of capitalists to maximize rent collection from their investments.

    --
    Cheers, Carlos.
    ESEfc-Efc+, EUEfc-Efc|;
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From R.Wieser@address@is.invalid to alt.comp.software.thunderbird,alt.comp.os.windows-10 on Thu Feb 26 20:15:28 2026
    From Newsgroup: alt.comp.os.windows-10

    Char,

    I'm at the edge of what I remember, so I checked Google and they
    offer up other reasons for ISPs blocking ports. *shrug* ISPs not
    wanting to look bad by being the source of spam, for example.

    Yes, that is what I heard too.

    But as you can probably tell, I've got a bit of a problem following the
    logic of it.

    Oh well, perhaps it is the actual reason. <Shrug>

    Thanks for the responses.

    Regards,
    Rudy Wieser


    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2